Subject:      PCWC45 Results
From:         eris@bga.com (Clayton Colwell)
Date:         1995/08/08
Message-Id:   <408mac$8e0@giga.bga.com>
Newsgroups:   rec.puzzles.crosswords

Well, the ballots are in and tallied, and we have a winner for PCWC45.
The clue:

    Race had turned into a farce    (7)

and the author:

    kamarif@pop.jaring.my  (Kamal A. Shah)


Congratulations!  The winning clue won hands down, with over 10% 
separating it from the 2nd place score.

None of the top three winners wanted the moderating job, so the
responsibility now rests on the shoulders of Jonathan M. Callet
(jmcallet@phoenix.Princeton.EDU). 
Expect to hear about PCWC46 from him soon.


Let me take this opportunity to thank you all for the high number
of ballots for this clue (12!) and for the copious number of
comments.  This helps smooth out the statistical bumps, and the
comments give insight on ways to improve one's later cluings.

Below are the general comments on PCWC45, followed by the clues
(in order of winning), with comments:



The &lits where the "lit" part was "oh, yes, and this clue is itself 
a charade" struck me as a bit . . . far-fetched.

An interesting word, since it's a type of cryptic

"No context" -- When you see that phrase in the voting comments
below, that's my shorthand for complaining that the entry is
trying to refer to itself as a cryptic clue rather than as a
sentence -- for example, clue 2, "Small fish for a small state!"
If you ask us to accept that sentence as a definition of
"charade", you could say that it also defines "puzzle entry"
or "Email", or "exclamation", etc..., by the same logic.  No soap.

Oh dear. Nothing very awe-inspiring here, for a word with 
such potential.  Several people tried &lit clues, most of 
which failed.  Some others used homonyms, but unfortunately
there are at least 2 ways to pronounce CHARADE, so this isn't
such a good idea!  In the end, I think the simplest ones 
were the best.  Perhaps I should have entered myself, but I
was on vacation...

Thanks for moderating, Clay!
The chosen word is easy enough but it seems the easier the word,
the more the clue-ers feel they have to 'toughen'the clues!
PCWC 45 clues run the gamut from the truly absurd, thru the orgasmic
and to the truly sublime. The envelopes please.......
Nos. 8, 9 and 13 in no particular order.....that's my guess!

Fun word to clue. I didn't feel it was really
fair to use a charade clue as an example of an &lit

I must complain here about the various people who felt that they
could write a charade clue, put "!" on the end, and call it an
&lit for CHARADE.  This is about as parochial as you can get --
"charade" as a description of *clue type* is cryptic clue writers'
jargon and there is certainly no reason to expect solvers to know it.
All these and similar clues got a low score from me, except for the
brilliant conceit of #11, where the *explicit* reference to cryptic
clues makes the jargon more forgiveable.

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1st place (score 85.41%) - clue 9
From kamarif@pop.jaring.my 

    Race had turned into a farce    (7)

Votes (normalized): 71 71 73 80 80 86 87 91 100 100 100

Clue would be beeeeeeeeeeeeetter without the 'a'

Smooth as silk.  A point deducted for pandering to the judges :-)

Nice job, if a little pedestrian.

Simple but effective!

...such smoothness! But it is mine and I will not cast my vote.

nice succinct anagram

Self praise is no recommendation but the surface reading is good!!

Yes, it is smooth. :-)

Best of the anagram clues. Nice surface

My own clue for this PCWC was somehow lost in the mail.  It was:
"Disastrous race had revealed sham (7)".  I'm delighted to see
that someone else submitted a *better* clue on the same premise.
I still don't find it all that inspired, though.

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2nd place (score 68.34%) - clue 11
From wald@math.uchicago.edu 

    Cryptic clue is a reach: "Beastly wrapping 'round letter, number (4)" (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 14 44 58 71 78 89 97 100 100 100

clever!

This is either the best clue, or the worst.  Best, worst, best,
worst... best!  The clue-within-a-clue is marvelous.  I give it an 11
(on a ten point scale)!

What an effort!   This really grew on me the more I looked at it.
And notwithstanding that the clue-within-a-clue is a little creaky,
it was, after all, described as "a reach" !

I like the idea of a clue-within-a-clue, but the 
surface doesn't really work.

Don't quite like the 'a reach', but the clue is so, oh so clever!

clue within a clue is cute

Beastly clue

I'd rate the "clue within the clue" as a 9.5, too.
Thank you for not claiming "&lit."!

Another clever bit of construction but you take on too much.

Brilliant!  I particularly like the way "letter number 4" is worked in.
Marred only by the jargon use of CHARADE, but at least this is explicit,
unlike other clues using it; see further remarks above.

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3rd place (score 65.49%) - clue 12
From bcs@sc.harris.com 

    By manipulating a card, he makes gestures of his intentions (7)

Votes (normalized): 40 53 56 57 57 63 67 67 74 79 80 94

A nice solid anagram with a pretty good surface.

Definition seems like "CHARADES"

Nice and simple, but "gestures of his intentions" is 
not really a def of CHARADE, is it?

interesting anagram

It wouldn't be so bad but why 'gestures of his intentions'?  It doesn't really signify 'Charade'.

Good anagram clue but a wee bit wordy

Clean and sharp.

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4th place (score 65.04%) - clue 16
From jmcallet@phoenix.Princeton.EDU 

    Mime to burn at Hades core. (7)

Votes (normalized): 21 40 44 50 56 57 67 78 80 88 100 100

Get rid of the final period.  Otherwise, a very good clue, with a
surface that lots of us would like to see (though not me, of course)!

Good, but "core" is offbeat in the surface, and why no apostrophe
for "Hades" ?

What does the surface mean??

Poor Marcel Marceau :-(. I thought they are put in glass-walled cages,
trying to get out,for all of eternity and cryptic clu-ers forced to
watch them for all of eternity . Let the punishment fit the crime, I say!

Any clue that involves burning mimes in Hell is a clear winner!!

Weak surface; otherwise well crafted

Not bad.

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5th place (score 63.50%) - clue 8
From yfyap@pop.jaring.my 

    Can ham acting really animate dull evening ? Initially, yes. (7)

Votes (normalized): 38 43 47 50 57 67 67 68 70 93 100

the 'yes' is not used anywhere
try not to use '?' where there are no puns

If it's an &lit, put an '!' at the end.  I'm not a big fan of using
all initials, though this has a very nice surface.

Unstraightforward definition.  The last two words don't take part in it 
either.

I like it, despite it being very easy.

Destined to be in the top three is my bet. Beautifully done
Tough act to follow but.....

I liked this &lit better than the obvious charade clue &lits.

Although I have problems with the '&lits', the surface is good and ...yes, it's good!  

Possibly the best but then who am I to say. This is my creation. Pass

"Initially" does not mean "take the initial letters of".  But this
one scores points for humor, at least.

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6th place (score 61.13%) - clue 15
From EnigmaGB@aol.com 

    Rebel maintains a cool pretense (7)

Votes (normalized): 14 25 44 44 57 57 60 71 80 80 100 100

Great - I tried to work with Che a bit, but was unsuccessful.  I would
say "Cuban Rebel" to make it solvable.  I'd also use "gnarly" instead
of "cool" for "rad".  Still, a nice job.

Brief and first-rate.

I don't think I would have thought of cool=rad.

But of course!

Would have been a good clue if I knew why cool = rad

My favorite by a small margin.

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7th place (score 59.15%) - clue 21
From jbergman@oxygen.bbn.com 

    Carrot-top announcement interrupts bunny act (7)

Votes (normalized): 29 33 43 45 50 57 60 67 67 80 88 92

what's the surface supposed to mean?

What does it mean?  I don't care for 'announcement' -> 'ad'

I like the surface of this one.

"Carrot-top announcement"???

Saving the best for last ? This is very good and would have been
excellent if 
'bunny' were spelt with as Bunny. I like the surface

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8th place (score 58.20%) - clue 7
From raman@crhc.uiuc.edu 

    Hear cad is disturbed by an act of deception. (7)

Votes (normalized): 29 29 47 50 50 56 57 67 67 80 83 85

I like the homophone red herring
try to keep unused words to a minimum

Please leave off the period at the end of the clue.
The surface seems a bit unclear, and the overall clue seems quite
long-winded for the payoff.  Still, a sound effort.

"cad" doesn't fit well, so it's too obviously an anagram

Nice surface, but a bit easy.

I think not. Cads are the deceptive ones!

not smooth surface reading

The anagram is OK but 'is' afterwards 'hear card' is misleading and there's no need for 'an'. 

Reasonable anagram clue

After six clinkers, finally a decent clue.

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9th place (score 49.87%) - clue 13

    Charge to make G-spot sketch -- that's unspeakable. (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 21 33 47 50 57 58 68 74 89 100

'to make' does not indicate to me what it does to you.

I like the surface and definition, but the cryptic leaves me cold.

The surface needs explanation, at least to me.

It may read well (though X-rated) but I don't like this
convoluted "make the G into AD" business.

How orgasmically delightful! I wouldn't mind paying a fee to be able
to do such a sketch, live. Wonder if it would be okay to:
Charge small change to make G-spot sketch..... ;-)
Such a wonderful imagery comes to mind. Beaver drooling with salmon
juice.No, not in that rear seat in theatre! The one by the river-dam!

I enjoyed the surface reading.

You said it - it's unspeakable!



"*To* make G-spot" is quite an unclear indication of "replace G with AD".
Otherwise cute, and I like the risque surface reading.

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10th place (score 49.23%) - clue 14

    Each rad turned out to be fake (7)

Votes (normalized): 14 29 33 40 44 44 51 60 63 64 70 78

a faulty geiger counter perhaps?

What does it mean?

Does this mean anything?  One fake for each 100 ergs of radiation?

Is rad used as a noun?

" rad" for radical?  

Not bad, but not stylish enough to support the uncommon "rad".

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11th place (score 47.48%) - clue 17

    Benefit for Sonny's ex sounds like a farce. (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 33 38 43 47 50 50 56 57 58 91

It doesn't sound like it to me. (Cher = share, charade = shur-aid.)

'Cher-aid sounds like CHARADE' - not around here

Love those homonyms!  And a nice surface that evokes, well,
something...

Automatic demerit for using Cher in this newsgroup.  Been done too often.

But I say it "Sha-rard", so this doesn't work 
for me at all.

Like the definition. But is it really necessary to have Sonny's ex-
for "Cher". Can't she stand on her own? Does the clu-er feels he is
making the clue more difficult?

Reads well but my phonetics don't tell me that 'Cher' sounds like 'Char' (or maybe it's just my
pronunciation??!!)  PS - are Sonny and Cher the equivalent of royalty in the US because they
seem to crop a lot in these competitions ?  Suppose some day we'll have 'Charles's ex' cropping up
in crosswords clues! (Also, would anyone under 40 know who Sonny and Cher were anyway?)

A "sound" clue, but I hate Cher. Sorry.

Why the obsession with Sonny & Cher ?

"Cher" does not sound like the first syllable of CHARADE.

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12th place (score 45.55%) - clue 20

    'Burn disaster relief funds' we hear: absurd behaviour (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 14 33 33 40 43 47 50 57 63 67 100

don't like partially phonetic clues

Not the clearest definition.

Absurdity is not what characterizes a charade.

I say it "Sha-rard", so this doesn't work for me.

Absurd definition I think!

not smooth surface reading

No,this clue does not compute

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13th place (score 36.38%) - clue 18

    A cheer goes up among a small circle of friends. They have no right! (What a sham.) (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 29 29 29 33 33 38 40 44 50 51 61

extra 'a's are distracting, clue is wordy

A long way to go for that payoff.

Thought this one would never end.   And, no right to what?

Too complicated, I'm afraid.

What does it all mean???? And whatever happened to Ms Elegance, Ms Brevity
and Ms Wit?

a bit long-winded

The intention is good but I wonder about the use of  'cadre' as 'a small circle of friends'.  In my
dictionary it means, among other things, a group of activists in a revolutionary party!  Are you trying
to tell us something??!!

Probably unsolvable 

Stylish, but just too complicated.

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14th place (score 35.57%) - clue 5

    Unfortunately, he cared (without enthusiasm, initially) about a pretense (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 14 36 38 40 42 44 45 47 60 61

rough surface
unfortunately is a weak anagram indicator and the construction is overly
complex

It's the dreaded anagram-charade.  I hate these.

Seems meaningless.  More convoluted than necessary for this word.

Too complicated and doesn't read too well.

Boy, I am in a vicious mood today. Unfortunately I don't care for this
clue and without enthusiasm, have to give zilch to it.

too long

Passably solvable but rough surface

Decent surface, but a bit too complicated, and I still dislike
"enthusiasm, initially" meaning "initial of 'enthusiasm'".
"Initially" does not mean "taking the initial part of".

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15th place (score 35.25%) - clue 3

    Salmon juice, for example! (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 19 40 43 50 50 50 56 80

either the 'for example' or '!' is not necessary      

My clue - no vote.

"No context".

Not bad, but the surface doesn't do much for me.

So that's how the fishy odor came about! Char for salmon ain't in my
dictionary!

The "&lit" isn't. See comment for clue #2.

I don't get it. Char is a trout and not a salmon.Unsolvable clue.

Ridiculous use of jargon "charade"; see above.  Also, "juice" for ADE
is poor at best -- ADE is hardly an everyday word.

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16th place (score 34.40%) - clue 1

    Meeting head assistant without me, after some handwaving (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 17 28 33 33 34 43 50 50 53 71

surface is rough and clue is indirect (remove me = I)

I don't care for "without me" as "remove I", and the surface is a bit
ragged.

Normal meaning of removal (of "i") is to remove it once.

I think that "without me = remove I from both words"
is a bit tenuous.

Cryptic part not fair, but nice definition

Too complicated removing 'i' from two words.  Also, 'some handwaving' doesn't define 'Charade'.

"without me" not = remove all i's IMHO

Nope, this doesn't turn me on

Incoherent surface; "without me" for "remove each instance of letter I"
is too obscure; "after" doesn't fit either in surface or cryptic.

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17th place (score 33.69%) - clue 2

    Small fish for a small state! (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 8 19 22 25 29 33 39 43 86 100

Even though it borders on cheating, "small state" -> "DE", for some
reason it doesn't seem to really bother me.

"No context".  Also, don't care for double duty of "small".

This is NOT an &lit, because "small fish for a small
state" is not a definition of CHARADE, it's an example. 
You need to put "like this clue" or similar.

My Webster's has char defined for a trout-like fish!

Where's the definition?  I wish someone would explain these "&lit" clues and definitions.  They seem
to be a lazy excuse for not giving a proper definition??!!

The "&lit" isn't. This is an example of a charade. It is also a cop-out.

But where is the main clue? I always thought a cryptic clue must have two
elements, the crypric part and the main clue (aka definition). The cluer's
claim that the clue is a charade (and is therefore an &lit) is pretty thin. 
I'm sorry, this clue is not capable of being solved.

Ridiculous use of jargon "charade"; see above.  Also, "for" is strongly
misleading -- it serves no purpose in the actual cryptic reading but
looks like a link between the cryptic and surface part of the clue.
In addition, "small state" to mean "small state, written in small manner"
is questionable; but this is a venial sin since a state abbreviation
seems to be acceptable without being clued as an abbreviation anyway.

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18th place (score 31.83%) - clue 6

    Grant and Hepburn masquarade in film! (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 14 14 20 30 33 39 43 92 97

an &lit should use the entire clue as the definiton
for a regular cryptic, the definition should be at one end of the clue
watch your spelling!

A nice reference, but I think an &lit has to have the sub-part at one
end or the other, and not in the middle.

Second def, "masquerade" (note the spelling) is stuck in the middle.
In an &lit clue, the entire clue is supposed to be parsable as a cryptic 
indication.

I'm afraid this is not your first &lit!

One mis-spelling could be a typo but twice makes it look bad and sloppy!

Too vague unless you're a film buff (which I'm not!!).

Great movie wasn't it! Great clue it is.

I like the film and this clue

Sorry -- there may be a proper clue constructable on this basis, but
this is not it.  It isn't an &lit as claimed; it is a double definition,
but with the one definition (masquerade) misspelled and inserted inside
the other one, and no indication of this unusual reading.  Despite this
it probably is solvable -- particularly if one remembers that the film's
theme song had "masquerade" in its title.

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19th place (score 27.76%) - clue 4

    "Juice the Juice" to be an example  (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 0 14 19 38 44 50 53 57 57

'Juice  =  CHAR' is a stretch
I think 'to make an example of' is what you are looking for in the surface,
but that doesn't really fit in the cryptic part

Shouldn't this have an '!' (I've always wanted to use 'an' before a
non-letter)?  I like the start, very much, though the overall surface
gets a bit ragged

"No context", and double steps in charades (juice -> electrocute -> char)
are unfair.

I'm afraid "Juice  =  CHAR  (electrocute)" is either 
too tenuous or too American for me (or both).

Spare me, puh-leeze!

Juice = CHAR is a stretch

Liked the charade, hated the definition.

Sorry, another unsolvable clue

Ridiculous use of jargon "charade"; see above.  Also, "juice" for ADE
is poor at best -- some dictionaries don't recognize ADE as a word.
Score upgraded slightly for the topical reference.

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20th place (score 24.64%) - clue 19

    Burn squib, adding energy! (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 19 25 27 29 29 33 38 47 50

accordinbg to my dictionaries, 'squib' is a short news item , not an ad.

An example of a charade is not sufficient to make an &lit definition.

"No context".  Nor any meaning either.

This is an example of a CHARADE, not a definition, so
it's not an &lit.

Blame it on my dictionary. It has squib down for parody, lampoon etc
but not AD

The "&lit" isn't. See comment for clue #2.

Why does everybody think a so-called &lit clue is Charade ?
To a reasonable solver, this is unsolvable

Ridiculous use of jargon "charade"; see above. 

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21st place (score 14.94%) - clue 10

    Newsman replaces chip in a spoiled archaic radio to receive the word game (7)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 14 22 28 40 75

Whence cometh the radio? 

very indirect clue with lots of unused words (a, radio, to, receive)

Pretty convoluted.  I hate slow anagram-charades, where you start with
an anagram and work your way to the answer through too many non-obvious
transformations.  And where does "radio" come in?

Wasted words ("radio to receive")

Far too complicated!

Whatever happened to the radio?

surface reading strange and long

Too convoluted and 'word game'as the definition isn't good enough (unless you wave your hands
around while playing Scrabble!  

Maybe I'm out of it, but I would never have gotten "ed", "ic", 
"charaic", or the
definition.  Other than that, it was a sound clue.

Clever construction but too wordy for my taste

Oh dear.  First, "newsman" for ED is obscure at best; then we have
indirection equivalent to an indirect anagram; then we have this
word "radio" which takes no part in the cryptic reading!

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BONUS CLUES

    Darjeeling artist of French origin, like this clue. (7)


The deception is unmasked more by the comma than by the case of 'like'.
Quite a difficult cryptic, too.

If you put "artists= RA" and removed the comma, then it 
might work as you say.

Better than most clues above. Have seen CHA and CHAR both used for tea
in other crosswords! The comma shouldn't be there, I think. Cluer should
have let us do our own "parsing"
Would seriously appreciate some feedback on this!

For an &lit, it's quite good.  At least it seems solvable.

At last a charade clue that does not presume too much. The "like this
clue" really did it for me. If only the other pretenders adopt such a tail,
then they would have scored more.

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--
Clay Colwell (aka StealthSmurf)
eris@bga.com                   "I'm sorry.  I seem to be using all the oxygen."
                                   -- Linda, _Faster, Pussycat!  Kill!  Kill!_