Subject:      PCWC 46 full results
From:         jmcallet@tucson.princeton.edu (Jonathan M. Callet)
Date:         1995/09/01
Message-Id:   <426sqk$1ou@cnn.Princeton.EDU>
Newsgroups:   rec.puzzles.crosswords

General comments:
-----------------
Thanks for moderating a great contest! My votes are below:
Clues using "City"  in some form:  5  6  7 10 11 14 16 17
Clues using "amity" in some form:  1  9 12 13
Clues using "Lama"  in some form: 14 17
Unique clues:  2  3  4  8 15
Non-wierd unique clues:  8 15
Thanks again for moderating

Good choice of word!  The word to be defined also functions as an
indicator for an anagram, which could make for some interesting
constructions.

A great selection of clues; I guess that what they say about calamities
bringing out the best in people is really true. (And what a selection
of calamities -- mudslides, the pox, strikes, bombs, Baltic warfare, 
poor urban planning . . .)

Thanks for the chance to enter and vote - 

The word is simple enough. But I guess it did not leave much room for 
creativity. In the process of not using the obvious anagrams, I think most
went overboard and ended up calamitously.:-)
If my clue doesn't make it .....then I guess the winner will be among
5,6 and 7 :-)
Thanks for moderating, Jon! The comments are half in jest and no malice
is meant.

Not a bad word, although hard to clue without giving 
an obvious straight definition.  I thought that there
would be more Calamity Jane clues.  Nothing amazing here
(my clue excepted of course!), just Lots of Californian 
friendships and confused lamas...

Boo hoo, I didn't get to submit a clue, because I got the
announcement too late.  I hope this didn't color my opinion
of the participants :-)

The usual abbrev. for California are CA and CALIF. I down-graded anything
that used CAL without a good reason (like Cal-Tech).

No polling on the bonus clues this time?

Interesting word that for me was harder to clue than I first
thought it would be.  I wish there had been some more clever definitions.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

1st place (score 86.22%) - clue 6
From Evan Whitney <evan@scd.hp.com>

    Before morning, Los Angeles is turned into urban ruin  (8)

Votes (normalized): 63 67 74 78 78 84 87 93 97 100 100 100 100

Interesting surface, good construction, but don't like the
"into" as a container signal for the entire preceding phrase

Didn't like the surface reading

No fault there :-)

Good surface; mostly good cryptic.  I think you're treading
on dangerous ground, equating "city" with an adjective ---
none of my three dictionaries allowed it; it only gains
pseudo-adjective status when coupled with the appropriate
noun (city sidewalks, city limits, etc.).

Flawless -- first place.

Ahh...To Live and Die in LA.  The skyline, the palm trees, the sunsets,
the trials, the riots, the earthquakes, the fires...

Now *there's* a surface reading!  My second place pick, ranked below
clue 3 because of the direct use of the city name.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

2nd place (score 71.33%) - clue 5
From "" <galejs@ll.mit.edu>

    Disaster within city: a French disease returned (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 29 44 62 63 74 81 90 92 93 100 100 100

Great charade/container construction, but clumsy surface

Direct use of city

Feel OK with that French disease?

Pretty good surface; pretty good cryptic (and use of a 
well-enough-known foreign word to not "lost" me).  Even the
colon works correctly within the cryptic.

Excellent construction

Parlez vous Francais?   Nyet!

Not bad, but reads a little roughly.  "In" would be better than "within".

-------------------------------------------------------------------

3rd place (score 67.47%) - clue 8
From msb@sq.com

    Claim at ghastly end of gory accident (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 29 56 58 63 72 72 78 80 83 92 95 100

My winner. Original and succinct. My only quibble is that the "claim"
just  doesn't seem to go with the rest of the surface reading

Who claims? Poor surface

don't quite like the anagram indicator,"ghastly"...I think it doesn't read
well,surface-wise

Solid cryptic construction.  As for the surface, my most
meaningful interpretation is "insurance claim filed after
gory accident", but I don't think the clue expresses that
thought very well.

Strange surface; if this is an insurance claim, it
makes it sound like the adjuster is more ghastly than
the accident itself

Adequate

-------------------------------------------------------------------

4th place (score 65.86%) - clue 4
From kamarif@pop.jaring.my (Kamal A. Shah)

    Malay with tic ran amok causing tragedy    (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 42 56 56 58 65 78 78 80 80 97 100

Great surface reading, but I'm put off by the "with" between the
two anagram pieces

A couple of extraneous words

My clue! I pass!

I like this, although a solver might not know that amok
was a malay word!

Well, I guess you deserve a couple of points for the lesson
in etymology.  Not a bad surface (quibble:  a comma after
"amok" would have made a minor improvement).  A little
downgrading is called for, though, as the "with" interrupts
the anagram fodder, implying (to me) that only "tic" is to be 
angrammed.

I see "with", "ran", "causing" as waste words

I bet this is Yap Yok Foo's clue. It looks like his handwriting. It is
my impression that anagram fodder should be contiguous, so I'm knocking
a point off for 'with.' I also feel that 'causing tragedy' is somewhat
anti-climactic for an otherwise good setup.

Upgraded a few points for the educational experience about "amok", and
downgraded again because it was necessary.  I mean, I don't think most
solvers can be expected to know the etymology of the word, and without
that, the clue just looks surfaceless.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

5th place (score 63.70%) - clue 9
From dtk <kurtzdt@musc.edu>

    Berkeley friendship leads to tragedy (8).

Votes (normalized): 0 27 38 50 50 67 72 75 79 81 89 100 100

Same as #1 except "CAL" is better for "Berkeley" than "West Coast"

very smooth construction..nothing wasted, stands alone as a sentence and
makes full sense.

Marked down by my poor knowledge of US geography

What's with this west coast friendship anyway? Don't they last?

Why Berkeley = CAL? Am I missing something?

Berkeley = CAL is a stretch.

Okay surface, but I really don't buy the "Berkeley = CAL"
part.

Very good, though I don't think Cal as a shortening of
"University of California" is universally known.

Not sure how universally known Berkeley = CAL is. I wouldn't have guessed.

Reads better than the similarly constructed clue 1.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

6th place (score 63.45%) - clue 7
From bobg@cullen.demon.co.uk (Bob Gregory)

    A strike in London's financial centre would be a disaster (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 32 41 43 50 63 67 83 83 100 100 100

This might have been better for the other contest (British/U.S usage)

The best!

It just so happened that I know that slang word,lam

I suspect your def of city is unknown outside of the UK.
'would be a' could be replaced by a shorter phrase or word

Quite a good surface.  Cryptically, not a good clue for the
international market:  "the City" isn't too obscure, but if
"lam" is a noun (indicated by the preceding "a"), it's a 
lexicographical nuance that's eluded my American dictionary.

Quick! Get some American bloke to enter this into the current ACC!   ;-)

The surface could survive without the unnecessary 'a,' but I would
never have been able to derive CITY from this clue.

Too obscure.  I never heard that meaning for "lam".

great surface reading

-------------------------------------------------------------------

7th place (score 62.25%) - clue 14

    Lama lost in city had a serious mishap (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 33 47 50 50 58 78 79 83 83 88 97

Good surface and no obscure or tortured references,
but "Lama lost" stands out as an obvious anagram.  Too easy.

very good 

Must be a bit of a culture shock there!

lost is a poor anagram indicator.  Avoid extraneous 'a's.

Nice surface.  The clue is a little simple; I think it would
have benefitted from substituting something more challenging
for the literal "city".

Don't care for the anagram indicator

One of the better entries.

Notice how here the lama lost in the city *suffers* the mishap, whereas
in clue 17 he *causes* it.  What does this say about what the clue-
setters feel about lamas? :-)

-------------------------------------------------------------------

8th place (score 62.09%) - clue 17

    Disaster caused by confused lama in city (8).

Votes (normalized): 0 33 50 50 58 64 67 74 78 78 83 83 89

See #14, same comments

Not as nice as #14!

Seems its just not the lama's day! 

'caused by' doesn't work in the cryptic part.

Rather similar to clue fourteen, except I liked the surface
in this one less, as "disaster" seems too strong a term for
the situation that could be caused by an addled holy man.

The better of the two "lama" clues; it works well, but
an anagram clue seems like a cop-out for this word.

I think the other lost lama clue is better, though this one has less filler.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

9th place (score 57.34%) - clue 3

    Disaster -- mud envelops a Cambridge college (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 21 38 50 56 61 62 67 75 80 80 100

My understanding of a fair container clue prohibits double insertions
in individual locations unless each one is clued separately

I don't think I'ld be expected to know that MIT is in Cambridge, USA
just as I wouldn't expect you to know the colleges in Cambridge, UK
Anyway multiple insertion isn't my cup of tea!

Sorry, the only Cambridge I know is in UK

There's no indication that A and MIT should be separate.

Nice surface, but I don't regard "mud" and "clay" as
interchangable, and don't at all like the splitting of "a"
and "mit" without some indication that they're to be 
separately enveloped.

I would think that "envelops" would be akin to "surrounds". 

I don't think this is a fair container. You could have said
"muddy clay envelops a college..." to get CAL(AMIT)Y which I believe
follows the rules better.

My first place pick.  Some British solvers may not like "college" being
used in this sense; if so, they should be less parochial.

clue sounds like a and MIT should be together

-------------------------------------------------------------------

10th place (score 54.33%) - clue 1

    West coast friendship -- what a disaster! (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 13 30 33 38 50 58 67 68 74 87 89 100

Short and sweet, good surface, but lost points from the dubious
"CAL" as the definition of "West Coast"

good clue, but not as good as #9, which has the same idea.

Of course I like it

Being a citizen of the world I don't quite see West Coast as CAL :-)

I think you might get flamed by folk from Oregon
and Washington!

'what a' is distracting as well as the '!' - this is not an &lit

Not too bad a clue; minor flaws include the use of the 
exclamation point for a non-&lit clue, and the fact that 
"west coast" is only partially synonymous with "cal".
Pretty good surface.

This clue -- what a disaster! 
The exlamation point is troublesome.  I don't like West Coast for 
California, let alone 'CAL'.

Surface is okay, but West coast = CAL requires too much clairvoyance.

West coast = CAL not fair

-------------------------------------------------------------------

11th place (score 53.83%) - clue 16

    Bomb urban area around Alabama, U.S. (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 22 50 56 58 59 61 63 67 73 94 97

I didn't see how a city can surround a state and country
Is 'AM' a recognised abbreviation of 'America'?

It's a bomb! Wouldn't the area around Alabama be suburban? Don't
particularly like U.S. being "American" and then have to figure it's AM.    

I DO like the use of "bomb" but US=AM isn't so good.

bomb=calamity is a stretch.

Pretty good surface, and nice dual use of bomb as verb in 
the surface and as a noun in the definition.  The cryptic
construction is pretty solid, except for the "U.S." = "am",
which strikes me as legal but weak.

As opposed to Alabama, UK?

Too complicated, and the surface reading is defective -- one doesn't
describe a city as being "around" a state.  The transformation of
"U.S." to AM is... interesting.

Don't like US = AM

-------------------------------------------------------------------

12th place (score 52.79%) - clue 12

    State briefly : "Stand by friendship in adversity" (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 11 22 33 46 50 72 72 74 80 83 89

Wordy and unclear surface; "CAL" for "state briefly" is NOT cool...

Poor definition

At least I know CAL....but isn't CA short for California? At least for
snailmail address

By far the best of the CAL+AMITY clues, but then it's mine.

Not a bad surface, but "state briefly" isn't specific enough
(which state?).

"stand by" feels like waste words.  It would work better as a
connector if it were "stands by".

The cyptic part is rather vague, and could just as easily lead to OPAL
[Ohio + PAL], except that OPAL doesn't make sense.

"State briefly:" is cute, but "in" takes no part in the cryptic meaning.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

13th place (score 47.87%) - clue 2

    Was it a bad accident placing California Institute of Technology
    outside Los Angeles?  Yes. (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 13 38 42 44 47 50 58 67 75 89 100

Not bad surface reading, but too long and "MIT" usage is ridiculous

Didn't like the direct quote of (M)IT!

Yes, it was. The whole clue is a calamity. Isn't Caltech an I of T.?

Too long.

'was it a' is distracting.  why the '?' ? There's no pun here.

The clue seems too long by half (at least), probably due to
the very lengthy cryptic substitution for "MIT".  I see what
you're getting at with the surface, but it would be better 
if "accident" were something more like "decision".

There's some M.I.T. parochialism/chauvinism here.  But I
like the misdirection of "California Institute of Technology".

Converting Cal-Tech into CA and MIT is a mighty stretch.

I have mixed feelings about this one. I'm not sure if MIT is fairly
derivable from Institute of Technology. Extra words also detract.

On first reading, I was afraid "California Institute of Technology" was
going to be CIT; of course that establishment is actually shortened to
Caltech.  The actual reading as CA + MIT is interesting but hard to solve
-- why this particular Institute of Technology except that it gives the
right answer?  Also, the "Was it" is not really used, and the use of
references to two specific places is clunky.  The whole clue, like this
comment, is too complicated and verbose.

nice surface

-------------------------------------------------------------------

14th place (score 43.57%) - clue 15

    Leaderless Baltic may change disastor (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 17 33 38 41 43 44 50 67 72 78 84

Technically excellent, but surface sounds like something is missing
And I wondered if the misspelled "disastor" signified anything?

Spelling!
I was reminded of the ferry Estonia which sank due to its
bow being ripped off - leaderless in the Baltic?

Maybe Balkan is meant? Sorry, I don't understand either about Baltic!

I don't like the "remove first letter and then anagram with 
the next word" construction.

good idea but 'change' doesn't quite work in the surface.

Okay cryptic, but the surface is relatively lifeless.  You 
might have made an effort to spell "disaster" correctly, by
the way.

"Change" is very strange in the surface

Not sure what the surface is supposed to mean.

Surface reading?  What surface reading?

-------------------------------------------------------------------

15th place (score 41.91%) - clue 10

    Bad Spanish female back in urban disaster (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 11 25 29 38 41 44 44 50 54 56 60 93

Poor surface, and I agree with the constructor's own criticisms

Use of obscure Spanish word

What is good Spanish female?  

Don't worry, you lost points!

what does the surface mean?

Well, you certainly lose points from me; it's a foreign
word with which I'm unfamiliar.  Also, the surface doesn't
present a really coherent image, and you've equated "urban"
with city invalidly (see elaboration in clue-six comments).

Si, es muy mal.

I don't mind the "clunky indicator" so much as the weak surface reading.
Taking "city" as an adjective so "urban" can clue that part seems poor too.

strange surface meaning

-------------------------------------------------------------------

16th place (score 34.79%) - clue 13

    Endless need turns friendship to total loss (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 14 25 33 37 38 40 56 62 70 78

A definition (need/call) shouldn't be so obscure when using it
in a shortened form.

"turns" is extraneous and therefore very naughty

Don't understand "need" for "call". 

Endless need=CAL is a bit tenuous.

why is 'turns' here? endless need is indirect.

Coming up with "call" from "need" is difficult, but legal.
However, "turns" is superfluous to the cryptic; indeed, it
erroneously implies that a reversal of some element is 
called for.  The surface is okay.

"turns" is unfair to the solver, since it's irrelevant to the cryptic

'turns' suggests part of the cryptic portion should be reversed.

Very nice surface reading, but defective on the cryptic side -- "turns"
suggests a reversal or anagram, certainly not a noise word.  Pity.

too indirect

-------------------------------------------------------------------

17th place (score 0.00%) - clue 11

    Doe eats calamari in western city (8)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0

I frankly don't even UNDERSTAND this one

I was just confused by this clue 

Sorry, I don't understand it at all

What the ......?

cryptic and straight defs are quite entangled here

Congratulations to you, of a sort:  in all my PCWC voting
thus far, I've not once felt compelled to grace a clue, as
I have with this one, an absolute score of zero.  To wit:
the solver is supposed to make a leap of logic from Doe to
Jane Doe, and pair that with "western city" --- psychically
skipping over the seafood, of course --- and come up with 
a colorful figure in American history?!  And cryptically,  
one must simply drop 20 letters from the entire clue?!
I suppose we're to be grateful that you were thoughtful
enough to intersperse the 8 desired letters in their 
correct order!

The instructions, that is, to omit the "ar" of calamari and the
"ci" of city, as well as both of the two intervening words, are
supposed to be found right in the clue.  Don't be discouraged, and
try again soon.

Doe = Jane Doe = Calamity Jane = Calamity = defn??  Ugh!
I didn't get my Calamity Jane clue in on time and I'm saddened that 
that this is the only such clue that made it.

This clue is missing its &lit indicator (!), for it is a calamity all by itself.

This person needs some careful study of how cryptic clues are constructed.
I *was* wondering when we were going to see Calamity Jane, though.

-------------------------------------------------------------------