Subject:      PCWC49 Results
From:         bcs@sc.harris.com (Brian Spollen)
Date:         1995/11/13
Message-Id:   <1995Nov13.184112.22798@sc.harris.com>
Newsgroups:   rec.puzzles.crosswords

                    PCWC49:  Final Results

Greetings from (near) Rochester, New York --- the EMPIRE State.

I appreciate all those who took part in the tough task of cluing 
the word and those who did their "patriotic duty" by evaluating them.
The winning clue, by a decisive margin, was penned by my PCWC48-
moderating predecessor, Don Monson:
 
Ten left to die as a thousand entered kingdom (6)

Here's the complete list of clues, comments, etc.

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I realized that there'd be a lot of British Empire usage here, but
I never dreamed the amount of EIRE I'd see. (And personally I'd like
to see one stay out of the other, but that's neither here nor there.)
My new scoring method for clueing the obvious:  get it in early, the
later repeats will be marked down for lateness.

What?  No beheaded umpires?  Baseball really is dead, isn't it.
At least there were no "premie"s.

I liked the word empire because it didn't have any real obvious parts  
and so would stimulate some interesting clues.  And it did.

The definitions "Britain", "British", "Ottoman", all need an *e.g.*

Too many strained anagrams and abbreviations.
Did not like single words like "Napoleon","Ottoman" or "British" as
a definition for EMPIRE. Although each of these may have been the
first name of an empire in history, IMHO it fails as a def'n unless a
word like "holding", "realm", "assembly", etc. is added. Is the single
word "American" a def'n of "colony"?

It appears that I wasn't the only one who found it difficult
to define EMPIRE. I've marked down any that use specific examples
wirhout indicating so (British, Ottoman) or "kingdom"
It is also a pity about the many MPs (of
various kinds) in Ireland - mine included.

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1st place (score 89.90%) - clue 9
From Don Monson (dmonson@Direct.CA)

    Ten left to die as a thousand entered kingdom (6)

Votes (normalized): 67 71 74 93 94 100 100 100 100 100

I like this very much.  A vivid surface and a nice charade.  
A tough nut, though.

Possibly the best single-letter-substitution clue I've ever seen.
Would be a sure winner -- if the definition hadn't been wrong.
An EMPIRE is larger than a mere "kingdom".  The only time the words
might be used for the same thing would be if both were really metaphors
for something else (like a domain of power within a corporation), and
that doesn't make the one able to serve as defining the other.

One of my 2 or 3 favorite clues in the bunch.  Love it.

I had to read this clue three times before I realized how good it was.

Runner-up. I thought 990 survivors out of 1000 a bit far-fetched.

Really good! Creative, hard but fair.

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2nd place (score 71.70%) - clue 19
From Clay Colwell (eris@bga.com)

    Wreathed in hemp, I read "Dynasty" (6)

Votes (normalized): 36 41 56 67 75 79 80 83 100 100

Perhaps this clue would make a bit more sense if I were wreathed
in hemp, too.  I do like the shortness and the hidden word.

Nice one.

The mind boggles at the imagery.  Top marks!

I tend to find container clues on the easy side, 
but this is as good a container as they come.

You're supposed to set the hemp smouldering, creating smoke, not wrap
yourself in it.  And the definition is weak.

Is "Dynasty" available as a book of the series? If so maybe you do
need to drugged to read it?

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3rd place (score 70.50%) - clue 6
From John Hakemian (SAILORJOHN@delphi.com)

    Ireland gets elected representative in British assembly (6)

Votes (normalized): 20 43 50 67 75 79 88 89 94 100

Sigh.  More Ireland...  I like the surface of this one, though I'm 
not such a big fan of "assembly" for "empire" (and I'm not British).

Excellent.  Smooth surface, fine misleading-but-legitimate definition.
My first place choice, by a small margin over #12 and #18.

Surface reading is top-notch!  My only quibble is that "assembly",
though technically correct as explained, is still somewhat misleading.
Excellent clue.

I'm not British, but I don't like the defintion, not least because 
while 'assembly' could perhaps cut it, 'British assembly' is just too  
much of a stretch.  And, as with all the MP/EIRE clues, there's a  
lack of originality.  Ask yourself:  what other meaning, besides  
'Eire', could 'Ireland' have in a cryptic clue?

Quite good, especially the surface; the definition is not really solvable.

Much better surface than other MP/EIRE's, but obviously not original!

A bit inaccurate historically. Irish MPs (at least the Sinn
Feiners) never took their seats at Westminster.

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4th place (score 65.56%) - clue 8
From Kevin Wald (wald@math.uchicago.edu)

    Vast realm, squandering a penny per diem, collapses (6)

Votes (normalized): 43 53 56 63 67 70 74 78 86

Nice surface and a good definition, but I'm not a fan of the 
anagra-charade style.

Good and amusing surface, but I find these clues that take many words
(here three, but one of them is long) just to specify modification of
an anagram awfully tedious.

And to think that our nation (Canada) is still afloat with its
multi-trillion dollar debt!
I found the clues and explanation to be somewhat convoluted.  As if the
clues weren't placed in the right order to be able to solve it.

This is a good clue, but I don't know why penny is 
equal to 'D'.  Extra points for originality.

Great surface...could have come from a history book! But the anagram-
minus construction is poorly ordered.

Honourable mention. Wasn't sure the order of the cryptics was
right.

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5th place (score 64.33%) - clue 7
From Matthew A. Merzbacher (matthew@ella.mills.edu)

    Mass bonfire, reportedly made from large gilded-style furniture (6)

Votes (normalized): 33 42 59 60 69 71 79 83 83

Abstain - my clue.  It didn't look all that good when I wrote it, either.

Mass bonfire, reportedly made from large gilded-style furniture (6)

That's a very strange scenario!  Certainly one that could only happen
in a convoluted cryptic clue :-)

My only problem with this clue is that the definition
is a bit long and seems contrived.  Also, the M+pyre 
idea was used more than once, so no originality pts.

"Large space bonfire" = "em pyre", I could accept.  With the abbreviation,
mass = m, I can't.

Hated the indirect homophone, but loved the furniture def'n!

Good, except I was averse to the abbreviated homophone.

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6th place (score 63.78%) - clue 12
From Phil Rose (pvr@wg.icl.co.uk)

    London police invade Ireland to protect this? (6)

Votes (normalized): 33 35 36 56 67 75 88 89 95

We're suppose to know that London Police == MP?  Why not
"British electe officials" or "Military Police", which at
least give us 'mericuns a fighting chance.  
This should be marked as an &lit (!) instead of pun (?)?

An excellent &lit.  Marred only by the unusual abbreviation -- that

London has Metropolitan Police should be known by anyone in any
country through their reading of mystery stories, but I've never
seen MP used to abbreviate the phrase.  Second place, anyway.

How many people outside of London would know that reference?
Superb clue, otherwise.

A great clue.  If only it didn't mention Ireland...

Points off for the local reference.

Like Member of Parliament (#3,5 & 6) better than the police!
An explicit definition would have helped surface and scored better.

No vote

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7th place (score 61.00%) - clue 4
From Lev Polinsky (polinsky@husc.harvard.edu)

    Britain's pirate pulled out .45 to go after 'em.

Votes (normalized): 32 43 50 56 59 63 64 75 83 85

Britain isn't much of a clue for 'Empire', either.  I do like the
cryptic construction, though.

Nice image, but "pulled out .45" for "delete 4th and 5th letters" is
just bizarre.  And Britain *was* not an empire -- Britain *held* an
empire.

This is a nice try, but the surface is week (as the cluer explains).
.45 is not clear enough direction to indicate the specified removal.

Britain = British empire? Feh. (I like the ".45" gimmick, though.)

I like this clue, not least because it makes no 
mention of Ireland or MP's.  A bit awkward, though.

I don't buy EITHER "Britain" OR "British" as a definition for EMPIRE.
Gave points for imaginative construction of wordplay part of clue.

I failed to link .45 with letters 4 & 5

Excellent!

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8th place (score 58.10%) - clue 11

    A set of states formed by leading english prime minister. (6)

Votes (normalized): 33 40 42 44 50 53 59 67 93 100

Very nice (though tough) clue.

I don't consider "leading English" to validly clue E, or "minister"
a reasonable anagram indicator.  And on top of that, the capital
letter on "English" is missing.  Nice basic idea, though.

By what act of parliament would such an action be allowed?
Sorry, but "minister" doesn't cut it as an anagram signal

A bit on the bland side.  Nothing wrong, nothing 
spectacular.

An imperative anagram indicator like "minister" belongs _before_ the fodder
(and it's a flabby indicator at that).

Good clue marred by obscure "minister" as an anagram signal.

Joint runner-up. English PMs are usually capitalised and English=E
doesn't need to be lead. 

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9th place (score 57.20%) - clue 14

    Area ripe to be overthrown!

Votes (normalized): 17 22 33 50 59 71 75 75 79 91

Using "area" for "em" is too tough a nut for my tastes.  You forgot
the (6) at the end, too.

In my experience an em is only a linear measure, so "area" is hardly
a fair clue for it.  I like the rest, though.

This is almost a winner!  But it's plagued with another obscure
typesetting reference, "as [we] know" now!

Indirect anagram.

A good &lit clue, but Area=em is a bit of a stretch.

Hated Aunt 'Em. Liked the attempt at &lit.

I liked this despite the arbitrary rebelliousness. Some empires are
good

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10th place (score 56.89%) - clue 18

    Authority to deem a prior bet as giving up odds (6)

Votes (normalized): 0 29 50 50 50 71 78 84 100

I don't like your straight definition, but I do like the cryptic part.

Ingenious.  Third place.

Very clever construction!  I've never seen it before.  I just wish 
the definition were a little more on track

I love it, even though this clue is a bit shaky on 
the surface reading.  This is just the sort of thing 
I love about cryptics.  In the top 2.

Great clue, but lost me on "authority" definition.

I wouldn't bet on any authority giving up anything.

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11th place (score 53.70%) - clue 17

    Bond boss to fire late sound for Victoria's realm (6)

Votes (normalized): 11 16 36 41 56 63 67 67 80 100

I like both cryptic and straight parts, but the surface makes no sense.

Surface reading is gibberish, and "fire late" is hardly a definition
of "pyre".

I like the definition, but that's about all.  Surface is meaningless, 
and it's just too much of a stretch to get "pyre" from "fire late"

A late sound indeed -- by about a century. :)

Another good clue.

Clunky surface; great def'n; "fire late" = "pyre" is quite a stretch,
Sorry, Kevin won this one.

My favourite. Best definition of empire and a well constructed clue.

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12th place (score 52.90%) - clue 13

    By returning Indian holding, "sunset time" seen for this! (6)

Votes (normalized): 11 14 33 35 47 50 60 79 100 100

I like the surface and the &lit -- very clever!  The cryptic
kind of suffers, though.

Nice British Empire reference.

Once again, I don't understand either the surface or the explanation

My favorite. (Though when dangling, you should be careful
about participles.)

The idea is great, but I feel like the clue is a bit too 
awkward.  It grows on you, but the meaning doesn't 
show up--the sun would set on the B.E. if it returned 
Indian holdings?

Unsolvable, especially the "Erie"

"By" unneccesary & hurt surface; Don't understand def'n when "sunset
time" by rights should have been "never sunset time"!

If the sun never sets on the Empire, why is it always sunset?

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13th place (score 52.10%) - clue 3

    Napoleon once had a politician trapped in Ireland (6).

Votes (normalized): 21 25 36 38 50 67 67 71 71 75

An improper definition.  Better to say "Napolean once had one..."
which at least is syntactiacaly correct.  Kind of Anglo-centric,
too.

Defective; the definition part should be "Napoleon once had", which is
a fragment.  It's easy to get a smooth surface if you do things like that.

I think it needs to read "What Napoleon once had" to qualify as a 
definition.  Otherwise, the surface is excellent.

The definition is, in my book, a bit shaky--the 
author's fault.  Also, nothing in this clue makes it 
stand out from the rest of the Ireland ones.

Would have been my top choice had it been, "Napoleon had one politician
trapped in Ireland", then the first three words would have been a real
definition.

Liked the container construction, but lost me on the definition.

I though Napoleon had most troublesome politicians beheaded?

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14th place (score 51.00%) - clue 20

    Prime changes Edward the first made his kingdom (6).

Votes (normalized): 20 33 33 44 50 57 58 64 75 76

But what does it mean?  Add some punctuation, please (you can
use the superfluous period after (6))!  And it should be 
"Edward, the First", I think.

Poor surface.  "Edward the first" is nice, though.

Loses a little on the surface.

Is it just me, or do most of the surface readings today
just not make any sense!  
This clue needs a concatenation indicator.

Clue makes no sense and is hardly grammatical.  And 
to make matters even worse, the idea is unoriginal.

Very solid clue with no silly abbreviations or strained meanings,
unfortunately marred by surface that cries out for something...
perhaps a 2nd "MADE"!

Prime what? 

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15th place (score 50.90%) - clue 15

    In Ireland, the member of parliament is British.  (6)

Votes (normalized): 21 25 33 47 50 50 53 57 84 89

"British" isn't a great clue for "Empire", even if it does improve
the surface.  I'd prefer "elected official" instead of the obvious
"member of parliament".

Another nice surface obtained by an incorrect definition.  There was
a British Empire, but "British" does not *mean* EMPIRE.

I might guess "British" from "Empire", but not the other way around.

Another Irish parliamentarian!  
"British" needs a little more qualifying to equal "empire" I'm afraid.

This would be a good clue if there weren't a half-dozen 
others very similar to it.

Another MP/EIRE, but why is "British" a def'n of "EMPIRE", when it
could just as easily stand for 1,000 other things.

Bland. 

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16th place (score 48.40%) - clue 5

    Many nations have one leader, but politician sits in insular country. (6)

Votes (normalized): 20 33 36 47 50 50 57 58 66 67

The straight definition doesn't thrill me, and the cryptic is too
Anglocentric.

The surface reading sounds like a bad translation from a foreign language.

Is this a "Confucius say"?  It "confucius" me!
Definition is kind of clever.  The "but" is unfortunately superfluous.
Why not just "Politician sits in island kingdom?"

This clue is far too long, the definition part is a bit on the long  
side, as well, and it's got the annoying MP/EIRE idea.  It's all just  
a bit too cumbersome for my taste; the connection between 
the two parts is not horribly logical, either.

"insular country" could be improved on, both for the cryptic and for
the surface.

Another MP in Ireland, but in a much more wordy surface than #3

The surface is a bit of a non-sequitor and Ireland the country
is not the whole island.

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17th place (score 40.40%) - clue 1

    Peer oddly through military intelligence heads for a kingdom (6)

Votes (normalized): 17 22 24 33 43 50 53 53 54 55

Doesn't scan very well, and I don't like mixing anagrams with
acronyms.

No surface reading, and the definition is wrong (see under clue 9).

Exactly what does it mean?  
"Through" does not really really convince me as "combined with"

This clue didn't use any of the words that most of 
the others.  The surface is a bit weak, though.  Not 
a clue I'd have trouble with, either--a bit too easy.

Didn't like "through" to mean "combined with", particularly when
you're talking about two sets of anagram fodder.

There is no indication that PEER & MI are to be anagrammed together

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18th place (score 31.40%) - clue 16

    Ottoman makes long dash to burning bier (6)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 11 17 35 38 56 67 90

Gotta have a homonym indicator if you're going to use "pyre".
Also, "Ottoman" isn't a great straight definition.

Yet another nice surface obtained by incorrect definitions.  There
was an Ottoman Empire, but Ottoman does not *mean* EMPIRE.  A long(ish)
dash is an "em dash", not simply an EM, which is a unit of measure.
And a burning bier would be a "pyre", not a PIRE!

Great clue, but the spelling error kylled it.

Finally, a 'solvable' typesetting reference, but this clue needs a
homophone indicator!

Needs a homonym indicator, and something like "e.g." is generally
needed when you're defining by example. (Also, in your explanation
you refer to the Ottoman empire as "ancient"; it's on the
Diplomacy (tm) board, for heaven's sake.)

A good clue.  Bier is a bit reminiscent of pyre, 
if you want to pick nits...

A long dash?  Doesn't work in the surface.  "Please line up for the start
of the 1500-meter dash ..."

Very strained anagram. Liked the surface, however.

I thought 14 had the correct definition of 'em'.

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19th place (score 24.00%) - clue 2

    Rule of Boney mutton pie contains recipe (6)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 17 22 35 36 38 42 50

How does mutton -> 'em'?  It's bad enough to use recipe for 'r'.
The surface doesn't quite work either.

Mutton = EM is too obscure, and so is R for recipe.  The surface
reading is also weak.

I'll take your word for the "Rule of Boney" definition, 
and I'll give you the Mutton = EM
but these definitions are so obscure as to be meaningless
to the average solver.
Besides, the surface doesn't make sense to me. 

I'd like to give this more, simply for the Hornbloweresque use
of "Boney" and the typographical use of "mutton", but I can't
make sense of the surface reading.

I've never heard Napoleon referred to as Boney, the only Boney I've  
ever heard of is a grocery chain in San Diego.  Regardless, I find 
there are a few too many abbreviations for my taste, and 
neither mutton nor recipe are words that are often abbreviated.

Never saw "recipe" = R before, so I'd need a citation

First letter designations missing...these are NOT abbreviations!
But glad to learn another meaning for "Boney"...

Why is mutton EM? or Recipe R? Arbitrary abbreviations?

mutton = EM ????

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20th place (score 10.40%) - clue 10

    Ron called Leonid's evil (6)

Votes (normalized): 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 21 83

Actually, I think it was Yuri (Andropov)'s or Konstantin (Chernenko)'s 
by the time Ron made his remark.
My question - where's the cryptic part?

Cute, but not tricky enough to constitute a tricky-definition-only clue.

Is it my imagination or is there no cryptic in this clue.

Nice half-clue.  Ask someone to mail you a copy of the FAQ.  It will 
explain how cryptic clues are constructed.  

Good clue for an American puzzle.  Not cryptic, though.

Where is the wordplay?

Too straightforward

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21st place (score 0.00%) - clue 21

    With a portion of hemp, I repair the state building King Kong climbed (6)

Votes (normalized): none

Too bad this is a bonus.  I wouldn't tied it for first with the other
container clue.

The subtraction of "state" from "Empire State Building" is awkward.

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Brian C. Spollen                          | Internet:bcs@sc.harris.com
Harris Electronic Design Automation, Inc. | I express my opinions, not Harris's
Fishers, New York 14453                   | "Taste makes Waist"