From sentto-2719433-44-1011880822-gtoal=vt.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Thu Jan 24 07:54:33 2002 Received: from n9.groups.yahoo.com (n9.groups.yahoo.com [216.115.96.59]) by admin.vt.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA02054 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 07:54:32 -0600 (CST) X-eGroups-Return: sentto-2719433-44-1011880822-gtoal=vt.com@returns.groups.yahoo.com Received: from [216.115.97.188] by n9.groups.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 24 Jan 2002 14:00:23 -0000 X-Sender: mike@mikescommunity.com X-Apparently-To: edinburgh-computer-history@yahoogroups.com Received: (EGP: mail-8_0_1_3); 24 Jan 2002 14:00:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 90358 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 14:00:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (216.115.97.171) by m2.grp.snv.yahoo.com with QMQP; 24 Jan 2002 14:00:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.wizardshosting.com) (64.46.100.18) by mta3.grp.snv.yahoo.com with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 14:00:21 -0000 Received: from pc-62-31-73-206-ed.blueyonder.co.uk ([62.31.73.206] helo=gonzales) by warrior.wizardshosting.com with asmtp (Exim 3.34 #1) id 16TkQJ-0003vk-00 for edinburgh-computer-history@yahoogroups.com; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:00:15 -0500 Message-ID: <00f901c1a4df$762b0e40$0200a8c0@gonzales> To: References: <000e01c1a382$d07fd8c0$82db87d9@oemcomputer> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - warrior.wizardshosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - yahoogroups.com X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [0 0] / [0 0] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - mikescommunity.com From: "Mike Scott" MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list edinburgh-computer-history@yahoogroups.com; contact edinburgh-computer-history-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list edinburgh-computer-history@yahoogroups.com Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:58:57 -0000 Subject: Re: [ed-comp-hist] First contact Reply-To: edinburgh-computer-history@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Status: RO Hi Hamish Glad to see that you've joined the list. I kept forgetting to mention it again at the ceilidhs - too many other "distractions" - you know what I mean. >> It is only recently that I became aware of the existence of this project -- through Mike Scott, whom I regularly bump into at Ceilidh dances here in Edinburgh (well, I'm not as proficient a dancer as he is). << I note that the last time I saw you doing a Cumberland Square Eight was at the Caley about 2 years ago, when our set gradually drilled itself into the concrete and collapsed in a heap. So although we didn't bump into each other on that occasion, we did bump ourselves and our partners into the floor! So although we all cringe at things we've done, they're not ever as bad as we think - don't let that hold you back from contributing your old source code. I for one would be very interested to see it. And maybe you'll be brave enough to join in another Cumberland one day... :-) >> I eventually left the Department of Computer Science in 1984, to set up Clan Systems, along with Igor Hansen. << Reiner Thonnes and I affectionately referred to your company as "Clown Systems". I'm not sure whether that was simply because of the silly almost-rhyme, or if it was a reference to the proprietors... >> For me, the period was one of great potential and invention, but in many ways the potential was not realised... << I second Graham's sentiments on this. I was intensely frustrated with the operating systems in the early '80s. I'd had quite a deep look at Unix and its kernel and wasn't impressed. When people said how good Unix was, they were really meaning that it had a great tool set and nice scripting. But Unix under the hood is horrible. If you have a look at the Linux kernel - even the latest stable 2.4 version - the code is full of gotos and isn't elegant at all in many places. >> I would be quite embarassed to have my early implementations of ECCE exposed to view... << We don't want you to expose yourself - we do enough of that at ceilidhs, Hamish. Did you not write VECCE? I remember using it on Visual 100s or 200s attached to the CS VAX to get through to my EMAS account at 9,600 baud - the old Perkin Elmers that we poor CS1 students were supposed to use only ran at 1,200 or 2,400 baud if memory serves. It's amazing how much faster 9,600 baud seemed and also how much nicer it was to use VECCE than ECCE. Now 9,600 baud seems unbelievably sedentary! >> As another example of overcoming hardware deficiencies, I devised HAL (High-Level Assembler) << Didn't the CS2 students do a simple OS project in HAL, either on the Interdatas or on Motorola 6809 development kits? Which one was it, or was it neither? I also remember the first time I saw a mouse was this nasty red plastic thing with 3 buttons, which looked suspiciously like ones I'd seen in a Maplin catalogue, attached to a Fred machine. I remember writing some code to call Fred's graphic routines using the mouse for input and being impressed at how fast his circle fill was. I think this was about the same time as the Apple Lisa - which was the second machine I saw with a mouse. >> ...18-bit instructions and 16-bit data words... << Ouch! We may all remember these days fondly, but there were also many insanities! I'm sure that compared to this, your ECCE code can't really be that bad - everything is relative. Personally, I'd like to see your IMP compiler for the Fred machine (or its derivatives). Since you have admitted to using IMP now and again even today, you surely must have the code for the compiler. Any chance of releasing that? Also, as we discussed in the pub on Rose Street after the grab-a-granny session in Princes Street Gardens, I'd be interested in hearing more about that routing algorithm and software that you developed for PCB design. If you're too shy to talk about it here in public, maybe I can bribe you with alcohol in one of our many hostelries? :-) Mike Scott. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Get your FREE credit report with a FREE CreditCheck Monitoring Service trial http://us.click.yahoo.com/ACHqaB/bQ8CAA/ySSFAA/9rHolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: edinburgh-computer-history-unsubscribe@egroups.com Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/