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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 04:52:29 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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A nice tribute.  I've never heard of a baby tooth hanging around so
long.  Is it because the permanent tooth failed to show up?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 04:53:45 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:

> Dead people server doesn't know him, and he has a web page at
> Berkely, but it's the kind of thing that could be years old.  So,
> no proof anyway, but it doesn't look like it.

I wish I could remember who the dead person I'm thinking of is.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:01:07 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>>  > We may be talking about two different things. It's hard to put words
>>
>>>  to what I'm describing without falling into woo-wooese, but it has to
>>>  do with the merging of soul/spirit rather than identity. Some of the
>>>  things that the tantra folks, and some BDSMers, are trying to
>>>  achieve, which when actually achieved are simultaneously transcendent
>>
>>  > and terrifying -- for good reasons in both cases, IME.
>>
>>         I'd classify that as being unhealthily (healthfully?)
>> self-involved.
>
>
> Ah. You would, of course, feel the same way about someone who spent a
> couple of hours a week doing spiritual seeking in, say, the Lutheran
> Church.


        Not at all.  I spend a couple of hours every week in
spiritual seeking the Episcopal Church -- more during Advent
and Lent.  Unlike your depiction of romantic love, however,
it tends to make me reach out of myself more than I have a
natural tendency to do.  That's one reason I attend.  I
guess I have more of a working relationship with my god than
a romantic one.


>> You're right.  I haven't time for such
>> nonsense.  I have too many people depending on me to check
>> out like that.
>
>
> And I don't? Come on. If something is doing something for you, you
> find a way to make it happen.


        A lot of self-involvment makes me depressed, so I'd conclude
that it doesn't do good things for me.  Crushes are
wonderful, but honestly Janet, I like the love I have now so
much more than falling in love. It's less exciting, but it
feels much, much better.  People on the list who have been
married longer than I have may agree or disagree.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 06:04:43 2003
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From: "Espen S. Ore" <espen@espenore.tk>
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10:17 09.02.2003 -0800 skrev Janet Hardy:

>Also, if you have a local source, Greek taramosalata is good with all
>vegetables and especially good with asparagus.

And if you add a plate of tzatziki to the taramosalata you have all you need.

Espen

 --
Espen S. Ore
Oslo, Norway
www.espenore.tk

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:15:34 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
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Espen S. Ore wrote:

> 10:17 09.02.2003 -0800 skrev Janet Hardy:
>
>
>>Also, if you have a local source, Greek taramosalata is good with all
>>vegetables and especially good with asparagus.
>>
>
> And if you add a plate of tzatziki to the taramosalata you have all you need.
>


I miss taramosalata.  Yum.  I'll have to stock up when I
visit NE this summer.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 06:16:57 2003
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21:02 09.02.2003 -0600 skrev Natalie Maynor:
>Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>> The news tonight is going to include a story on tongue-splitting.
>> I plan not to watch--I couldn't even stand to watch the teaser.
>
>Is it about why English and Russian are different languages today?

This reminds me of the theory (by one of the brothers Grimm?) that the Germanic consonant sound shift came because the proto Germanic people livet up in the mountains in thin air.

Espen

 --
Espen S. Ore
Oslo, Norway
www.espenore.tk

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 06:18:32 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>        Breeds associated with the south... bloodhounds, coon hounds,
>>fox hounds, etc... Spencer's most likely cousins.  Dogs have
>>regional popularity trends, you know.  It's built into the
>>dog show rules.
>>
>
> I'd never thought about a regionality association re dogs.  How is it
> built into dog show rules?  Re Spencer's cousins, I've said before that
> something about him reminds me of a bloodhound, though I couldn't figure
> out why exactly since he does not have the long ears, loose skin, or
> drooling habits.  But other people have also mentioned it.  And I
> thought of it again today when I looked very, very hurriedly at the url
> posted by Marie (I think) about the Westminster show results and clicked
> on the bloodhood winner and then on the "garden picture."  That profile
> of the bloodhound looked very, very much like Spencer's body shape.


        In the point structure.  You need a certain number and
combination of points -- acquired through wins -- to make a
champion.  The number of points required varies according to
region.  This variation is calculated by taking into
consideration the number of dogs likely to be shown in that
region.  For example, Norfolk Terriers are more popular in
Texas and New England than the the midwest.  In the midwest,
a 5-point major requiers you beat 5 dogs.  In Texas, you
have to beat 8.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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09:59 10.02.2003 -0600 skrev Amy Burns Short:
>This is a bit after the fact, but here are a few blurbs with recipes I'd
>gleaned from The New York Times around Jan. 28.
>
>AS
>
>
>
>
>Tzatziki
>
>Tzatziki is the ubiquitous Greek dip that can range from garlicky to very
>garlicky to super garlicky. We've restrained ourselves, but use an extra
>clove if you prefer.
>
>1 quart yogurt, drained
>1 cucumber (preferably English hothouse)
>1 clove garlic, chopped
>3 tablespoons dill, chopped
>3 tablespoons mint, chopped
>2 tablespoons lemon juice
>Salt and pepper to taste.
>1. Mix together garlic, salt, pepper, lemon juice, mint, dill and yogurt.
>2. Peel and dice cucumber and mix with yogurt mixture.
>3. Reserve for one hour in refrigerator and serve.
>

I have always used some olive oil in tzatziki (and usually not dill).



>Tapenade

This is good!


>Hummus
>
>Hummus is virtually the same as baba ghanouj, with cooked chickpeas
>replacing the eggplant. The two form a perfect duo, to be enjoyed with
>lightly toasted or warmed pita bread.
>
>2 cups canned or cooked chickpeas

Yes, chickpeas definitely.

Espen

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:18:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>Are you still in an investment club, Bethany?  Did y'all invest in
>duct-tape stock?

Home Depot.

Bethany

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Terry Wild wrote:

>  Now I wait 4-6 months and decide what type of replacement to choose.  So,
>with such a varied group out there, what are some of the things you have
>chosen and were happy with?

Get an implant. It's expensive, but forever. I am going to have my third
one <implanted> this year.

Bethany

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Subject: Re: Janet's birthday
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18:50 11.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Tuesday, February 11, 2003, 6:42:34 PM, you wrote:
>> No, it may require a week or two of healing time before I embark on
>> that sort of activity again ;) Yes, it was a *very* good one -- a
>> great dinner followed by a lovely scene, surrounded by all my friends.
>
>HB from me, too. I'm glad it was a good one!

And HB from me.

Espen

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At 07:47 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, betty wrote:
>Did you get yours yet, Bonnie and Clyde?

No.  The VCR/DVD came, but not the TV, so far.  And---it looks like we'll
be sending the VCR/DVD unit back; the DVD does well but the VCR is "jumpy."

cwv
0 F (-18C) here now, below-zero F nights forecast through Sunday.  At least
it keeps the snow "dry" and easy to shovel (and no, goddamnit, it <isn't>
too cold to snow).

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:21:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 6:15:34 AM, you wrote:
> I miss taramosalata.  Yum.  I'll have to stock up when I
> visit NE this summer.

You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
don't think you have to go to Maine.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

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Janet Hardy wrote:

> I think this may be true of some kinds of love, but not of romantic
> love. Generally romantic love doesn't reshape and transform people
> for the better.

    "Love is not love which alters when it alteration finds."

                                                        - some english
guy

JMW

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Espen Ore wrote:
>
> And HB from me.

and me.
alyce

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From: elaine.personal.lists@att.net
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] From today's reading
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:38:32 +0000
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I'm reading off the web and was behind in Words-l mail anyway, but when did
that sort of thing ever stop somebody from responding?

Steph said:

> Natalie Maynor:
> = Rita Chapman wrote:
> =
> = > > _The Cuckoo's Egg_.  I sent him fan e-mail and got a nice reply.  But he
> = > > died.
> = > >
> = >         Are you sure?  I'd remember that.  Well, maybe.  I've been
> = > known to inquire after relatives that died years ago.
> =
> = No, I'm not positive.  But somebody like that died.  I remember thinking
>
> Dead people server doesn't know him, and he has a web page at
> Berkely, but it's the kind of thing that could be years old.  So,
> no proof anyway, but it doesn't look like it.

Assuming we're talking about Cliff Stolll, I know that he showed up in San Jose in August for worldcon.

--Elaine

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Goofy looking, but cooler
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At 04:09 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>>>  I wonder if my cat would let me shave her...
>>
>>     Boo (Bradley, the cat; not Boo the brewer) got a "lion cut" every
>>year when it started to get hot.  Not only did it get rid of the mats
>>that he defended in extremis but it was much more comfortable for him in
>>general.  Kinda goofy looking, though.  It was almost worth the money to
>>watch him limply turn into "Jello cat" and let them do anything at all
>>to him, the vicious monster.  How'd they do that?
>
>Tom & Katy's cat Zippy was a long-haired black cat. When the two of
>them moved in together, Zippy set Tom's allergies into overdrive, so
>they used to send him for a lion cut. He looked as silly as any
>animal I've ever seen -- exactly like the Warner Brothers cartoon of
>the Martian.
>
>Janet

First time I ever saw the lion cut was on my friend Erik's cat. I had not
been told the cat was shaved down. When the poor thing came into the living
room I broke out in uncontrollable laughter. He hated me for it.

According to Erik the cat had been in a mood ever since his hair cut. It
was a brutal winter that year and the cat was cold. He spent most of his
time on nestled in a bunch of blankets that had been spread over the
radiator. His venture into the living room that evening was a rarity and I
confirmed his fears that he was indeed a freak.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 09:58:58 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:57:47 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 9:54:34 AM, you wrote:
> According to Erik the cat had been in a mood ever since his hair cut. It
> was a brutal winter that year and the cat was cold.

Why did he do this in the winter?

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

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At 04:45 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>At 03:28 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>At 12:05 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, betty wrote:
>>
>>>They probably can't see around the kid. Give 'em a break.  Watch your toe!
>>
>>No, the kid is below their line of sight---riding in the seat of the
>>plastic auto/trolley/boat/etc.
>>
>>cwv
>
>I wish I could ride in one
>
>Betty

I wish someone would do my grocery shopping for me again.

lisa

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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At 08:40 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> > Apparently Oakland is trying to close down the little bitty branch
> > near my house. There are petitions all over the neighborhood. As I
> > haven't changed my voter registration to my new address yet, I
> > haven't been able to sign one.
> >
> > Janet
>
>Springfield just closed 3 branches as a result of cutbacks in state aid.
>*sigh*
>
>http://www.masslive.com/news/unionnews/index.ssf?/base/news-0/10449729231108
>81.xml
>
>--Adam
>adamh1@attbi.com

Every year at tax time I panic over whether or not I've paid my excise tax.
Every year I call Town Hall and ask them what I paid so I can claim it. I
called today and was told I'd have to send my request, in writing, with a
self addressed stamped envelope. The gravel voice woman in the other end
explained they couldn't do these things over the phone any more due to cut
backs. Some how I managed to charm her into looking my name up and telling
me that I'd paid $275.76 on April 5th of last year. In returned I promised
her I'd tell no one of the favor she'd done for me.

This, "can't do it 'cause of cutbacks" crap is quickly going to get on my
nerves.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 10:06:10 2003
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At 08:42 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> > due to falls from shopping carts. Yet a shopping cart with a lapbelt
> > in the kid-space is still a rarity.
>
>Really? Hm, I guess you're right - I've only noticed them at the supermarket
>at which I do the majority of my shopping. One of the other chain's carts
>have cupholders, though.
>
>--Adam
>adamh1@attbi.com
>distressed that one local chain he hates has bought out another he likes

The Stop & Shop in Medford has added cup holders. That's because they've
also added a dunkin donut's.

lisa

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:06:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 10:02:20 AM, you wrote:
> Every year at tax time I panic over whether or not I've paid my excise tax.

What do you pay excise tax on? And why don't you know you've paid
it?

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 10:08:14 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:06:35 -0800
To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@alumni.pitt.edu>
Subject: Hall of Fame deadline approaching ... VOTE!
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We're rapidly approaching the end of the STATLG-L/Baseball Prospectus
Internet Hall of Fame vote for the new Veterans Committee.  Balloting
closes Friday!

So if you haven't already done so, please cast your vote(s).  You'll find
the explanation and links to the ballots here:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20030114traven.shtml

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal traven                                     beisbol@alumni.pitt.edu
   "You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."
                                -- Larry Andersen, relief pitcher

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   "'Neal Traven'" <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: RE: Hall of Fame deadline approaching ... VOTE!
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:14:08 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Neal Traven
>Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:07 AM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Hall of Fame deadline approaching ... VOTE!
>
>
>We're rapidly approaching the end of the STATLG-L/Baseball Prospectus
>Internet Hall of Fame vote for the new Veterans Committee.  Balloting
>closes Friday!
>
>So if you haven't already done so, please cast your vote(s).
>You'll find
>the explanation and links to the ballots here:
>
>http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20030114traven.shtml
>
Neal,

Was this email to the correct list.


alec

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From: Neal Traven <beisbol@alumni.pitt.edu>
Subject: RE: Hall of Fame deadline approaching ... VOTE!
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At 11:14 02/12/2003 -0500, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: English Language Discussion Group
> >[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Neal Traven
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:07 AM
> >To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Hall of Fame deadline approaching ... VOTE!
> >
> >
> >We're rapidly approaching the end of the STATLG-L/Baseball Prospectus
> >Internet Hall of Fame vote for the new Veterans Committee.  Balloting
> >closes Friday!
> >
> >So if you haven't already done so, please cast your vote(s).
> >You'll find
> >the explanation and links to the ballots here:
> >
> >http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20030114traven.shtml
> >
>Neal,
>
>Was this email to the correct list.
>
>
>alec

Sure, why not?  Last I looked, there were at least a few baseball fans on
words-l.

Besides, I'm blowing my own horn (hoary wordsler tradition).


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
neal traven                                     beisbol@alumni.pitt.edu
   "You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."
                                -- Larry Andersen, relief pitcher

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At 05:58 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:

>Everyone I know who does the vampire-teeth thing have special crowns
>made, either temporary to be removed at will, or attached by a
>dentist. I've never heard of anyone filing their teeth -- seems like
>it would be very bad for the tooth to intentionally remove all its
>enamel protection.
>
>Janet

How many people do you know who've done this?
FWIW: I'm not asking in a prickish way.. I'm simply curious.

lisa

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> I turned in my first work in over a year and was told that it was
> 'very good'. I'm happy, but I'll be happier when I get paid...
>
> Karen
> "One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
>    -Eeyore

I'm proud of you ET

BrP

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Subject: Re: Goodbye to an old friend
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At 11:52 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>   Now I wait 4-6 months and decide what type of replacement to choose.  So,
>with such a varied group out there, what are some of the things you have
>chosen and were happy with?
>
>Thanks,
>Terry

Which tooth is it?

Betty

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Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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At 06:01 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>My thoughts of late: the desire of the lover to wholly occupy the
>loved one, to destroy all barriers between them, which I suspect is
>simultaneously a very evolved or even spiritual desire -- and, at
>least potentially, terribly destructive.

Yes, this is destructive. My last relationship went along these lines. She
wanted there to be no barriers. I did not want the responsibility. She
didn't just want to love me and me to love her. She loved me and wanted me
to shoulder the responsibilities of her problems and more importantly to
fix them. I loved her but came to resent the responsibility I found myself
with.  that changed when I found myself with problems I did not create and
could not fix

Currently there are no barriers but there's no selflessness either. We both
have a strong sense of self. We take care of one another but not at the
cost of personal happiness. I find it difficult to care for someone who
doesn't care from him/herself.

>Corollary: Infatuation is Nature's way of telling you to run like
>hell. But, as addicts can tell us, we always crave most the substance
>which is worst for us.

This is the worst case scenario.

Infatuation can be fun. I was infatuated with someone for a long time. She
never knew it and therefore never disappointed me.

In another case someone was infatuated with me. I then became infatuated
with her. I was sorely disappointed when she got what she wanted but I did not.

The final scenario was mutual infatuation with limited action. Also a
positive  result in that we didn't, "go too far". Neither heart nor ego was
bruised and there's still a friendship.

>There, that's neither mundane nor domestic. Discuss if interested.
>
>Janet

There.

lisa

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Goodbye to an old friend
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At 10:36 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> > Today I had to bid farewell to a beloved friend.  One that had stood with
> > me for 40 years.  In reality this was a relationship that had lasted about
> > 30 years too long.  This afternoon I had to have my one remaining baby
> > tooth pulled.  One root was gone and the other over half.  The beginnings
> > of an infection were evident and so our parting was necessary.  I had made
> > my peace before leaving for the dentist.  We had talked in the past about
> > how each passing day was to be cherished.  There was never a replacement.
> > So for the 30 odd years of 24/7 overtime, I salute my little tooth.  I
>must
> > note that I had also resolved myself to the fact that today I would accept
> > the novacaine shot and did.
> >
> >   Now I wait 4-6 months and decide what type of replacement to choose.
>So,
> > with such a varied group out there, what are some of the things you have
> > chosen and were happy with?
>
>I had quite a few teeth pulled preparatory to the jaw surgery. Some of the
>gaps were filled in by moving the adjoining teeth with orthodontia, but a
>couple of them at the back are still there -- I've asked my dentist several
>times to pull the opposing teeth, but he won't (says I may need them for a
>bridge someday).
>
>My dad has had implants and my mom is in the process of having some. I
>gather it's a very lengthy and painful process, but the results (at least in
>Dad's case) look great.

One of our docs had implants and it does look good.  He said that he wanted
to look good laid out in his casket.

Betty

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: This is...
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At 10:56 AM 2/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>At 04:45 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>At 03:28 PM 2/11/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>>At 12:05 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, betty wrote:
>>>
>>>>They probably can't see around the kid. Give 'em a break.  Watch your toe!
>>>
>>>No, the kid is below their line of sight---riding in the seat of the
>>>plastic auto/trolley/boat/etc.
>>>
>>>cwv
>>
>>I wish I could ride in one
>>
>>Betty
>
>I wish someone would do my grocery shopping for me again.

I have that!  He also does the cooking.

Liking my love, too,
Betty

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lisa alfieri wrote:

> This, "can't do it 'cause of cutbacks" crap is quickly going to get on my
> nerves.

    The National Park Service calls this the "Washington Monument" ploy:  "If our
budget requests aren't met we'll have to close down the Washington Monument!"
Its fairly widespread.  Odd that things like travel monies are never cut back,
innit?  Or that the "cutbacks" are never across-the-board.  Libraries are always
classic targets for things like this.

JMW

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 08:37:10 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Hall of Fame deadline approaching ... VOTE!
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At 11:14 AM 2/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: English Language Discussion Group
> >[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Neal Traven
> >Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 11:07 AM
> >To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Hall of Fame deadline approaching ... VOTE!
> >
> >
> >We're rapidly approaching the end of the STATLG-L/Baseball Prospectus
> >Internet Hall of Fame vote for the new Veterans Committee.  Balloting
> >closes Friday!
> >
> >So if you haven't already done so, please cast your vote(s).
> >You'll find
> >the explanation and links to the ballots here:
> >
> >http://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/20030114traven.shtml
> >
>Neal,
>
>Was this email to the correct list.

And did you get the photo of your cousin that I sent you?

Betty

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:52:42 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Tooting one's own horn...
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I turned in my first work in over a year and was told that it was
'very good'. I'm happy, but I'll be happier when I get paid...

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:55:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 10:52:42 AM, you wrote:
> I turned in my first work in over a year and was told that it was
> 'very good'. I'm happy, but I'll be happier when I get paid...

Jeeze! I can't even quote correctly! She said "really good".

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:10:18 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:09:03 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Lee <flint@kiva.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Janet's birthday
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On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Betty wrote:

B> Did you get additional whippings yesterday?

        I was unaware!  I do hope you got your quota of birthday
spankings, Janet, or if not that then whatever you desire.

--
Take care,
Tom Lee (flint@kiva.net)
Another well-wisher

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:11:35 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:11:52 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Love vs. in-love
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>
>         A lot of self-involvment makes me depressed, so I'd conclude
>that it doesn't do good things for me.  Crushes are
>wonderful, but honestly Janet, I like the love I have now so
>much more than falling in love. It's less exciting, but it
>feels much, much better.  People on the list who have been
>married longer than I have may agree or disagree.

You forget -- I've had both. Both of my long-term relationships
lasted somewhere between 13 and 14 years (Ben says I'm "just a
14-year kind of chick" -- the seven year itch times two?). I loved,
and still love, both of the men involved. Loving someone doesn't mean
you can live with them, or that they're good for you -- I've seen
*very* few relationships in which all three pertain. Most often,
close examination shows that one person or the other has given up
their selfhood in order to maintain the relationship. The
death-do-us-part model was formed in a milieu where it was normal and
expected for the woman to do exactly that; it's only in the last few
decades that we've begun to demand anything else -- and look what's
happened to relationship longevity in those few decades.

It's not realistic, IMO, to expect a single relationship to bear the
burden of being a sexual outlet *and* a friendship *and* a working
partnership *and* a roommatehood *and* a source of growth and
pleasure for both involved. But for those who have found such
relationships -- well, lucky folks. I don't think it happens often.

And, no, this isn't just post-relationship bitterness speaking; I
felt the same way in the years when I was still very happy in my
relationship. I just never expected it to do all those things for me.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:11:38 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:10:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Tooting one's own horn...
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 10:57:19 AM, you wrote:
> I'm proud of you ET

Thanks, ET.:)

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:15:20 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:14:15 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Goofy looking, but cooler
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>According to Erik the cat had been in a mood ever since his hair cut. It
>was a brutal winter that year and the cat was cold. He spent most of his
>time on nestled in a bunch of blankets that had been spread over the
>radiator. His venture into the living room that evening was a rarity and I
>confirmed his fears that he was indeed a freak.

Amy is always terribly needy and clingy for a week or so after she
has her semiannual haircut. Patrick says I'm anthropomorphizing, but
I'll swear she feels ugly and self-conscious and is seeking
reassurance.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:17:16 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:16:44 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: no cats, no chick peas
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>At 05:58 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>Everyone I know who does the vampire-teeth thing have special crowns
>>made, either temporary to be removed at will, or attached by a
>>dentist. I've never heard of anyone filing their teeth -- seems like
>>it would be very bad for the tooth to intentionally remove all its
>  >enamel protection.
>
>How many people do you know who've done this?
>FWIW: I'm not asking in a prickish way.. I'm simply curious.

Not a whole lot -- three or four, I think. It's primarily a Goth
thing, so if I hung out in Goth circles I'd know a lot more of them.

I'm supposed to be doing a lecture/demo on spanking at a Goth club
later this month. I'll have to keep count.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:19:06 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:22:55 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tooting one's own horn...
Message-ID: <20030212182255.A1657@yoccoz.multinix.com>
References: <2359961299.20030212105242@WordWrite.com>
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Wed, Feb 12, 2003 at 10:52:42AM -0600
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= I turned in my first work in over a year and was told that it was
= 'very good'. I'm happy, but I'll be happier when I get paid...
=
= Karen


YaY!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:24:45 2003
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From: "RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" <rjscheid@nadal.loyno.edu>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Marie Ascher wrote:
> I saw Anders Osbourne (sp?) perform in a laundromat in New Orleans.

At one of Igor's clubs?  All his joints have washers
and dryers.  It's one of his <things>; others have
copied him.

--
Richard                      17, 20

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:25:31 2003
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> We saw on guy on the Vampire Tour in New Orleans
> who had implants, or so we were told.

That guy's a dick.

--
Richard                      17, 20

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:30:04 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:28:48 -0500
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>From: "RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" <rjscheid@NADAL.LOYNO.EDU>
>On Tue, 11 Feb 2003, Marie Ascher wrote:
> > I saw Anders Osbourne (sp?) perform in a laundromat in New Orleans.
>
>At one of Igor's clubs?  All his joints have washers
>and dryers.  It's one of his <things>; others have
>copied him.

I don't remember -- actually, I think so. It was down near the Dream Palace,
where we had seen the Klezmer All Stars earlier that night.

(I think)

(what a night!)

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:33:32 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: A Smashing Success
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:32:16 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>But I've missed night two of the dog show, thus missing the hounds, my
>favorites.  I should've taped it.

You know who won don't you? My boy Mick!

As I was watching, though, I thought about how I could love so many of them.
Golden Retrievers and Yellow Labs I love. I love the Bloodhound. The English
Setter and Irish Setters. Spaniels -- Cockers and Springers.
I really need a dog.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:36:43 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:35:27 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >         I miss infatuation, but I do genuinely like the comfort of an
> > established love.  Every now and then I get re-infatuated
> > with my husband, and that's extra fun -- sort of like having
> > my cake and eating it, too.
>
>TMI!:)

Why?

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:40:11 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: TMI
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:38:55 -0500
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Speaking of TMI, all the froggy fallopian stuff yesterday went well. One
side was a little faster than the other at filling and spilling, but
ultimately both tubes were patent. The procedure can be therapeutic as well
as diagnostic, so it's possible he knocked some adhesions free. We'll see!

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com




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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:41:19 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:40:10 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Tooting one's own horn...
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:22:55 AM, you wrote:
> YaY!

Thank you. Working is very hard when you don't do it for a long
time.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:42:59 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:41:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:38:55 AM, you wrote:
> Speaking of TMI, all the froggy fallopian stuff yesterday went well. One
> side was a little faster than the other at filling and spilling, but
> ultimately both tubes were patent. The procedure can be therapeutic as well
> as diagnostic, so it's possible he knocked some adhesions free. We'll see!

Patent?

Anyway, cool. I'm happy for you.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:43:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:42:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:35:27 AM, you wrote:
>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>> >         I miss infatuation, but I do genuinely like the comfort of an
>> > established love.  Every now and then I get re-infatuated
>> > with my husband, and that's extra fun -- sort of like having
>> > my cake and eating it, too.
>>
>>TMI!:)

> Why?

Envy on my part.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:46:27 2003
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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
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At 08:18 PM 2/11/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>Betty wrote:
>
>>At 11:05 PM 2/11/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>>
>>>= >>>I'm in as long as I get to chose who I'm positioned next to.
>>>= >>
>>>= >>Who would you choose?
>>>= >>
>>>= >>Marie
>>>= >
>>>= >Are you kidding me? Answer that question in a public space? No
>>>freakin' way
>>>= >Marie, no freakin' way!
>>>=
>>>= Let's all guess.
>>>
>>>You first BB.
>>
>>
>>I guess Rita.
>>
>>Betty
>
>        Yeah, I'm like, soooo a red hot mama.

So you think I'm the red hot mama type? Huh. Interesting.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:47:21 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: TMI
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:46:11 -0500
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>
>Speaking of TMI, all the froggy fallopian stuff yesterday went well. One
>side was a little faster than the other at filling and spilling, but
>ultimately both tubes were patent. The procedure can be
>therapeutic as well as diagnostic, so it's possible he knocked some
adhesions
>free. We'll see!
>
>Marie
>   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com
>

Good. Prayers sent to the fertility gods.

alec

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:48:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Not for Tushar's eyes
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Do cats get colds? Or have allergies? My cat has been sneezing a
lot, and today, she sneezed what looked like bright green snot.
(And then expected me to pet her--ugh!)

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:50:34 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:49:24 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: TMI
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:41:51 -0600, Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> wrote:

>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:38:55 AM, you wrote:
>> Speaking of TMI, all the froggy fallopian stuff yesterday went well. One
>> side was a little faster than the other at filling and spilling, but
>> ultimately both tubes were patent. The procedure can be therapeutic as
well
>> as diagnostic, so it's possible he knocked some adhesions free. We'll
see!
>
>Patent?

"Open, unobstructed"

I'm surprised you don't know this one, Karen.  It's standard, everyday
medical terminology.  Usually pronounced PAY-tent.

>
>Anyway, cool. I'm happy for you.
>
>Karen
>"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
>while in London, they touched no times at all."

neal

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:52:34 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: note to Betty
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Yes, I got the picture.  Passed it along to my sister as well.

I could have sworn that I wrote a note thanking you.  CRAFT must be setting
in.

neal

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:56:17 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Do cats get colds? Or have allergies? My cat has been sneezing a
> lot, and today, she sneezed what looked like bright green snot.
> (And then expected me to pet her--ugh!)

    They do get feline distemper.

JMW

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 09:45:13 -0800
To: Investor@pasta.cc.uga.edu
Subject: Venture Music Group, Inc. Worth $20 Million.
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<html><head><title>OTC Vault.com Stock Watch</title></head><body bgcolor=#BEDADC link=#000099 vlink=#000099 style=tab-interval:.5in lang=EN-US><div class=Section1><table width=797 border=0 align=center bgcolor=#FFFFFF><tr><td><table width=795 border=1 bordercolor=#0000FF><tr><td bgcolor=#0066FF><div align=center><b style=mso-bidi-font-weight:normal><i style=mso-bidi-font-style:normal><span style=font-size:38.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Impact><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">OTCVault.com</font></span></i></b></div></td></tr></table><table width=795 border=1 align=center height=51 bordercolor=#0000FF name=Name><tr><td><table width=100% border=0 align=center height=43><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><td width=49% height=39><b style='mso-bidi-font-weight:
normal'><i style=mso-bidi-font-style:normal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif">Issue 402<span style="mso-spacerun: yes">  </span>Vol II</font></span></i></b><font face="Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif"><i style=mso-bidi-font-style:normal><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Comic Sans MS"'><span style="mso-spacerun:
yes">    </span>February 2003<span style="mso-spacerun: yes"> </span></span></i></font></td><td width=7% height=39>&nbsp;</td><td width=44% height=39><p align=right><b><font face="Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=4>Market Research &amp; Analysis</font></b></p></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><table border=1 align=center height=31 width=795 bordercolor=#0000FF name=ticker><tr><td bgcolor=#999999 height=25><p align=center><b><font size=4 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">VMGP<font size=2> (OTC BB: VMGP)</font> </font></b><B><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Venture Music Group, Inc</font></B></p></td></tr></table><table width=794 height=52 border=1 align=center bordercolor=#0000FF name=shares><tr><td height=46><table width=100% border=0 align=center bordercolor=#FFFFFF><tr bgcolor=#FFFFFF><td width=32% height=38><font size=2><b></b></font></td><td width=22%><p><font size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><B>Symbol -<br></B></font></p></td><td width!
=46%><font size=2><b><font face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">VMGP</font></b></font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><table width=795 border=1 align=center bordercolor=#0000FF name=headline><tr><td bgcolor=#999999><div align=center><font size=3 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><B>Venture Music Group Inc.&#8217;s Catalog Worth $20 Million</B></font></div></td></tr></table><table width=100% border=1 align=center name=info bordercolor=#0000FF><tr><td width=6834 height=111><table width=100% border=0 align=center><tr><td width=50% height=226 bgcolor=#FFFFFF><blockquote><p><font color=#0000FF size=2 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><B><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">OTCVault focuses on mini-cap stocks on the move. Stocks that suddenly jump in volume and may be moving on an upward trend.</font></B></font></p><p><font color=#0000FF size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif"><B><u>Company Profile</u></B></font></p><p><font size=2 face="V!
erdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">In 1994, Grammy-winning producer/arranger/conductor/songwriter<br> Tony Camillo and multi-Platinum promoter/international licensing specialist<br> Gene Serina formed Venture Music Group, Inc. bringing together an impressive<br> catalog of recordings by many top artists such as, Gladys Knight, Dionne Warwick, The Fifth Dimension, Vanessa Williams Freda Payne, to name a few.</font></p><p><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Today the company is firmly established in the $14 billion wholesale music marketplace, licensing numerous properties domestically and internationally. VMG is headquartered in the New York City area and its recording facility, TC Studios, is located in nearby Hillsborough, New Jersey.</font></p><p><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">The Company has an Internet presence and is developing other avenues of opportunities for sales and marketing of music and related products through!
 the Internet and expanding its promotion, production and recording services to the entertainment and music markets.</font></p><p>&nbsp;</p></blockquote></td><td width=50% height=226 bgcolor=#FFFFFF><blockquote><p align=left><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">VMGP has become a multifaceted entertainment company under which several record labels have been incorporated. The principal business of the company is to locate talented musical artists; to obtain the exclusive right to record those artists' performances for a fixed term; to use such right to create master records (&quot;masters&quot;) featuring those performances; to use artists' masters to manufacture CDs and music videos; to sell those CDs and videos to the consuming public through a distribution system and to acquire and exploit related rights, such as publishing and merchandising. VMGP has a large catalog of pre-released and never-before released recorded masters of well-known artists. VMGP !
also plans to expand the present catalog. There is a ready market for product of this nature. This allows for a substantial profit, with little or no cost. In it February 6, 2003 press release management stated that an independent appraisal firm recently valued its Catalog at approximately $25 million.</font></p><p><font size=2 face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Revenue and earnings for the year could reach the $4 million range that would yield profits in the range of $.04 to $.08 per share. We would expect significant price appreciation!</font><br></p></blockquote></td></tr></table></td></tr></table><table width=795 border=1 align=center bordercolor=#0000FF><tr><td bgcolor=#CCCCCC><p align=center>&nbsp;</p><p align=center>DISCLAIMER:<br> <font size=1 face="Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif">Information within this email contains &quot;forward looking statements&quot; within the meaning of Section 27A of the Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the Securities Excha!
nge Act of 1934. Any statements that express or involve discussions with respect to predictions, expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or future events or performance are not statements of historical fact and may be &quot;forward looking statements. &quot;Forward looking statements are based on expectations, estimates and projections at the time the statements are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties which could cause actual results or events to differ materially from those presently anticipated. Forward looking statements in this action may be identified through the use of words such as &quot;projects&quot;, &quot;foresee&quot;, &quot;expects&quot;, &quot;will,&quot; &quot;anticipates,&quot; &quot;estimates,&quot; &quot;believes,&quot; &quot;understands&quot; or that by statements indicating certain actions &quot;may,&quot; &quot;could,&quot; or &quot;might&quot; occur. As with many microcaps, today's featured company has!
 factors that raise substantial doubt about its ability to continue as a going concern. Furthermore, the company has a large accumulated deficit since its inception and a substantial negative net worth. An investment in today's featured company is considered to be highly speculative and should not be considered unless a person can afford a complete loss of investment. All information provided within this email pertaining to investing, stocks, securities must be understood as information provided and not investment advice. OTC Vault advises all readers to seek advice from a registered professional securities representative before deciding to trade in stocks featured within this email. None of the material within this report shall be construed as any kind of investment advice or solicitation. The publisher of Growth Stock Alert is not a registered investment advisor. Subscribers should not view information herein as legal, tax, accounting or investment advice. All information !
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 11:58:16 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: TMI
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:57:01 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> > ultimately both tubes were patent.
>
>Patent?
>
>Anyway, cool. I'm happy for you.

Oops. I think maybe the amount of time I've been spending with my medicine
residents might be beginning to show. (To think I didn't know what "ascites"
was six months ago!)

I guess you got the gist of it, though, since you knew it was a good thing.
PAY-t@ent = unobstructed.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:00:00 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:58:49 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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02003-02-11 | Evelyn Duncan <BrandyKitt@AOL.COM> writes:
> In a message dated 02/11/2003 7:35:06 PM Central Standard Time,
> scribble@POBOX.COM writes:
>
> <<
> Let us take a break from constant unrelieved discussions of topics
> of such frighteningly mundane and domestic nature that they threaten
> to darken our very souls.
> >>
>
> Too late for me; my soul is dark.

Didn't know it was a binary and irreversible event ... Then again,
it's the season, it seems--from casual acquaintances to international
relations, everybody's like "hey, it's screwed up already, what can
you possibly do".

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:00:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 11:59:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:49:24 AM, you wrote:
> "Open, unobstructed"

> I'm surprised you don't know this one, Karen. It's standard, everyday
> medical terminology.  Usually pronounced PAY-tent.

Thank you. Why would I know this? I have no pretense to being
knowledgeable about medical terminology.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:03:03 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:01:52 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Message-ID: <20030212180152.GB3897@pobox.com>
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02003-02-11 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >Let us take a break from constant unrelieved discussions of topics
> >of such frighteningly mundane and domestic nature that they threaten
> >to darken our very souls. Write about dadaism or some asshole person
> >you saw on the train etc. NO CATS, NO CHICK PEAS. Thanks ...
>
> My thoughts of late: the desire of the lover to wholly occupy the
> loved one, to destroy all barriers between them, which I suspect is
> simultaneously a very evolved or even spiritual desire -- and, at
> least potentially, terribly destructive.
>
> Corollary: Infatuation is Nature's way of telling you to run like
> hell. But, as addicts can tell us, we always crave most the substance
> which is worst for us.
>
> There, that's neither mundane nor domestic. Discuss if interested.

Here I celebrate our differences--I think it's the most mundane thing
I have ever heard, and suspect that it's rooted in the dreariest kind
of domestic instinct.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:04:04 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:02:50 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Message-ID: <20030212180250.GC3897@pobox.com>
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            <a05200f20ba6f5ac572b3@[67.118.125.98]>
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02003-02-11 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I read something earlier today which may or may not be relevant:
>
> "I am sitting in meeting for worship, and the phrase, "the
> transforming power of love" goes through my mind over and over
> again. Suddenly, I almost laugh aloud. I realize that my whole
> life I have thought of the phrase as meaning, "I love, you
> transform." Suddenly I realize that loving transforms the lover,
> not necessarily the loved! I realize that I have unconsciously
> thought of love as a tool to get people to do or be what I want.
> But in fact, love is not a tool for me to use; rather, I am to be
> a tool of love. Not only that, but in the process, love will
> tool, reshape and transform me."

WEIRD, HUH.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:07:40 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:06:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 12:02:50 PM, you wrote:

> 02003-02-11 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> I read something earlier today which may or may not be relevant:
>>
>> "I am sitting in meeting for worship, and the phrase, "the
>> transforming power of love" goes through my mind over and over
>> again. Suddenly, I almost laugh aloud. I realize that my whole
>> life I have thought of the phrase as meaning, "I love, you
>> transform." Suddenly I realize that loving transforms the lover,
>> not necessarily the loved! I realize that I have unconsciously
>> thought of love as a tool to get people to do or be what I want.
>> But in fact, love is not a tool for me to use; rather, I am to be
>> a tool of love. Not only that, but in the process, love will
>> tool, reshape and transform me."

> WEIRD, HUH.

No, not weird. That's why I liked it.


Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:09:35 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:08:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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ALGEBRAS, DIAGRAMS AND DECISIONS IN LANGUAGE, LOGIC AND COMPUTATION,
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tools to specific problems.

Contributors to this volume are Pieter Adriaans, Sergei Artemov,
Steven Givant, Edward Keenan, Almerindo Ojeda, Patrick Scotto di
Luzio, and Edward Stabler.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:10:21 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Dip
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:09:05 -0500
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>From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@ATTBI.COM>
>>        Yeah, I'm like, soooo a red hot mama.
>
>So you think I'm the red hot mama type? Huh. Interesting.

I think you'd pick me. Your body and mine have already experienced being
squished together with no adverse effects. Oh, wait, nevermind, I think you
emerged rather bruised.

Marie

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Message-ID: <20030212180953.GD3897@pobox.com>
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02003-02-11 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >Why do you think this is an evolved or spiritual desire? (I can only
> >see it as damaging or destructive. That is, breaking down
> >barriers doesn't seem destructive (except to the barriers), but
> >'occupying the loved one' seems horrendous to me.)
>
> I think it's an attempt, often a misguided one, to transcend self and
> become something bigger and less bounded -- which I do see as a
> spiritual urge.
>
> It's interesting, though, that you react fairly positively to the
> phrase "destroy all barriers" and very negatively to "wholly occupy
> the loved one." To me, they're the same thing. What do you see as the
> difference?

K-R-N cannot go beyond single inflexible Oprah meanings of the words
"barrier", "occupy" etc. Hence, K-R-N will not be able to respond to
any aspect of your situation.

T Bone has spoken

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:12:07 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:10:48 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >> "I am sitting in meeting for worship, and the phrase, "the
> >> transforming power of love" goes through my mind over and over
> >> again. Suddenly, I almost laugh aloud. I realize that my whole
> >> life I have thought of the phrase as meaning, "I love, you
> >> transform." Suddenly I realize that loving transforms the lover,
> >> not necessarily the loved! I realize that I have unconsciously
> >> thought of love as a tool to get people to do or be what I want.
> >> But in fact, love is not a tool for me to use; rather, I am to be
> >> a tool of love. Not only that, but in the process, love will
> >> tool, reshape and transform me."
>
> > WEIRD, HUH.
>
>No, not weird. That's why I liked it.

I guess many "insights" come from having really stupid ideas in the first
place.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:14:17 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:13:05 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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02003-02-11 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> Because it tends to lead to possessiveness and objectification.
> Because it focuses the attention so entirely on the love object that
> other relationships get ignored. Because it rarely has to do with the
> loved person, but rather with the lover's idealization of the loved
> person.
>
> Or, really, because I haven't seen people become better people when
> they fall in romantic love. They sometimes become happier, but they
> don't generally become more altruistic, open-minded, loving,
> intelligent or forgiving. If anything, rather the opposite.

This is stalking by a narcissistic prig. Get real ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:14:37 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:48:39 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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At 06:22 PM 2/11/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>"I am sitting in meeting for worship, and the phrase, "the
>>transforming power of love" goes through my mind over and over
>>again. Suddenly, I almost laugh aloud. I realize that my whole
>>life I have thought of the phrase as meaning, "I love, you
>>transform." Suddenly I realize that loving transforms the lover,
>>not necessarily the loved! I realize that I have unconsciously
>>thought of love as a tool to get people to do or be what I want.
>>But in fact, love is not a tool for me to use; rather, I am to be
>>a tool of love. Not only that, but in the process, love will
>>tool, reshape and transform me."
>
>I think this may be true of some kinds of love, but not of romantic
>love. Generally romantic love doesn't reshape and transform people
>for the better.
>
>Janet

I disagree. My past relationships have showed me what kind of person I
really am. They've inspired me to appreciate what I like about myself and
to change that which embarrassed me about myself.

The past relationships also prepared to function in my current relationship.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:14:38 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: This is...
In-Reply-To: <20030212073300.A447@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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At 07:33 AM 2/12/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>Theodora Groothof:
>= In a message dated 2/11/2003 3:04:38 PM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:
>=
>= << So has .nl, but that didn't seem to have stopped anyone. >>
>=
>= There are stupid drivers, even in my former homeland. Theo
>
>Oh, Theo, you don't know the half of it.  In a country where it
>rains all the time, the slightest bit of rain yields a bumper
>crop of accidents, gumming up the works entirely.  What I
>consider a safe distance to be behind the car in front of me most
>Dutch drivers view as a gap to be filled.  Grrrr.

That's my experience in Boston too. It's a well documented fact, if you
leave enough room to slide a refrigerator in between you and the car in
front of you, someone's going to try to fill it.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:14:56 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:13:47 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:54:03 AM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Do cats get colds? Or have allergies? My cat has been sneezing a
>> lot, and today, she sneezed what looked like bright green snot.
>> (And then expected me to pet her--ugh!)

>     They do get feline distemper.

Isn't that a bad thing?

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:15:21 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:14:05 -0500
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The inside of my wedding ring is inscribed "you - me - us" (two points for
the origin!). There is a definite us. But there is still a you and a me,
too. The merger creates a new thing, but not at the cost of the loss of the
individuals.

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com





>From: Tushar Samant <scribble@POBOX.COM>
>Reply-To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: this week's resolution
>Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:09:53 -0600
>
>02003-02-11 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > >Why do you think this is an evolved or spiritual desire? (I can only
> > >see it as damaging or destructive. That is, breaking down
> > >barriers doesn't seem destructive (except to the barriers), but
> > >'occupying the loved one' seems horrendous to me.)
> >
> > I think it's an attempt, often a misguided one, to transcend self and
> > become something bigger and less bounded -- which I do see as a
> > spiritual urge.
> >
> > It's interesting, though, that you react fairly positively to the
> > phrase "destroy all barriers" and very negatively to "wholly occupy
> > the loved one." To me, they're the same thing. What do you see as the
> > difference?
>
>K-R-N cannot go beyond single inflexible Oprah meanings of the words
>"barrier", "occupy" etc. Hence, K-R-N will not be able to respond to
>any aspect of your situation.
>
>T Bone has spoken


_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:16:52 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:17:09 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>Here I celebrate our differences--I think it's the most mundane thing
>I have ever heard, and suspect that it's rooted in the dreariest kind
>of domestic instinct.

In fact, I agree with the second, if not the first. But it's still
less mundane than cats and chickpeas.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:16:54 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:15:46 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 12:09:53 PM, you wrote:
> K-R-N cannot go beyond single inflexible Oprah meanings of the words
> "barrier", "occupy" etc. Hence, K-R-N will not be able to respond to
> any aspect of your situation.

> T Bone has spoken

"Oprah meanings"?! Why do you hate me?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:18:46 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:19:00 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>This is stalking by a narcissistic prig. Get real ...

I'll get real if you start making sense. *What* is stalking by a
narcissistic prig? The post? Or the phenomenon it describes? Or
something else entirely?

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:19:25 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:18:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 12:10:48 PM, you wrote:
>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>> >> "I am sitting in meeting for worship, and the phrase, "the
>> >> transforming power of love" goes through my mind over and over
>> >> again. Suddenly, I almost laugh aloud. I realize that my whole
>> >> life I have thought of the phrase as meaning, "I love, you
>> >> transform." Suddenly I realize that loving transforms the lover,
>> >> not necessarily the loved! I realize that I have unconsciously
>> >> thought of love as a tool to get people to do or be what I want.
>> >> But in fact, love is not a tool for me to use; rather, I am to be
>> >> a tool of love. Not only that, but in the process, love will
>> >> tool, reshape and transform me."
>>
>> > WEIRD, HUH.
>>
>>No, not weird. That's why I liked it.

> I guess many "insights" come from having really stupid ideas in the first
> place.

Huh? I think that sometimes an insight is the realization that your original
idea was stupid.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:23:14 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 10:23:30 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>  > I guess many "insights" come from having really stupid ideas in the first
>>  place.
>
>Huh? I think that sometimes an insight is the realization that your original
>idea was stupid.

No, I know what Marie means. Sometimes you have a thought that's
blindingly obvious and kind of stupid, but all of a sudden it starts
making sense at a different level. Granted, mind-altering substances
often play a role in this process, but sometimes it happens anyway,
and sometimes the insights are real.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:28:42 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:27:31 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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02003-02-12 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> >> "I am sitting in meeting for worship, and the phrase, "the
> >> >> transforming power of love" goes through my mind over and over
> >> >> again. Suddenly, I almost laugh aloud. I realize that my whole
> >> >> life I have thought of the phrase as meaning, "I love, you
> >> >> transform." Suddenly I realize that loving transforms the lover,
> >> >> not necessarily the loved! I realize that I have unconsciously
> >> >> thought of love as a tool to get people to do or be what I want.
> >> >> But in fact, love is not a tool for me to use; rather, I am to be
> >> >> a tool of love. Not only that, but in the process, love will
> >> >> tool, reshape and transform me."
> >>
> >> > WEIRD, HUH.
> >>
> >>No, not weird. That's why I liked it.
> >
> > I guess many "insights" come from having really stupid ideas in the first
> > place.
>
> Huh? I think that sometimes an insight is the realization that your original
> idea was stupid.

In K-R-N terms: WTF kinda education do you have if you get the
bizarre "stupid idea" in the first place? Somebody who formulates
"I love, you transform" is a little green man from planet Zork
who hasn't heard a single poem, song, folk tale or fairy story ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:35:12 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:34:02 -0600 (CST)
From: "RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" <rjscheid@nadal.loyno.edu>
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Marie Ascher wrote:
>(two points for the origin!).

EGADS!  Look where he and Linda ended up!

--
Richard                      17, 20

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 12:37:29 2003
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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Not for Tushar's eyes
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At 11:48 AM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Do cats get colds? Or have allergies? My cat has been sneezing a
>lot, and today, she sneezed what looked like bright green snot.
>(And then expected me to pet her--ugh!)
>
>Karen

Yes they can have colds and allergies.

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At 09:57 AM 2/12/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 9:54:34 AM, you wrote:
> > According to Erik the cat had been in a mood ever since his hair cut. It
> > was a brutal winter that year and the cat was cold.
>
>Why did he do this in the winter?

The cat's fur was terribly matted. So much so it was causing the cat pain.
The vet gave my friend a hard time for not brushing the cat in order to
avoid the matting. Erik told him the cat did not like to be brush and he
did not like to be scratched. He tried to cut the matting out when possible
but it wasn't well received either.

lisa

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:22:03 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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At 10:06 AM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 10:02:20 AM, you wrote:
> > Every year at tax time I panic over whether or not I've paid my excise tax.
>
>What do you pay excise tax on? And why don't you know you've paid
>it?

I pay it on my car (yes, it's taxed twice.. once for sales tax and once a
year for excise tax). I couldn't find the check I'd written nor the copy of
the bill I'd been sent. I know I have both these things but in my panic it
was easier to call Town Hall, give them my last name, confirm my address
and say thank you when they told me I was up to date.

lisa

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:32:12 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Dip
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At 01:09 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
>>From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@ATTBI.COM>
>>>        Yeah, I'm like, soooo a red hot mama.
>>
>>So you think I'm the red hot mama type? Huh. Interesting.
>
>I think you'd pick me. Your body and mine have already experienced being
>squished together with no adverse effects. Oh, wait, nevermind, I think you
>emerged rather bruised.
>
>Marie

We do have a <connection>.

I also have a connection with Rashmi and Emily (you were there too, I
think). I dropped trou for them and there were no bruises as a result of
that <encounter>.

lisa

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:46:44 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Not for Tushar's eyes
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At 01:27 PM 2/12/2003 -0500,lisa wrote:
>At 11:48 AM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Do cats get colds? Or have allergies? My cat has been sneezing a
>>lot, and today, she sneezed what looked like bright green snot.
>>(And then expected me to pet her--ugh!)
>>
>>Karen
>
>Yes they can have colds and allergies.

Also, they can get pneumonitis---which has flu/cold-like symptoms.  Is she
still eating?

cwv

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:06:55 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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02003-02-12 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >Here I celebrate our differences--I think it's the most mundane thing
> >I have ever heard, and suspect that it's rooted in the dreariest kind
> >of domestic instinct.
>
> In fact, I agree with the second, if not the first. But it's still
> less mundane than cats and chickpeas.

Agree 100%

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 13:35:05 2003
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At 01:22 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, lisa wrote:

>I pay it on my car (yes, it's taxed twice.. once for sales tax and once a
>year for excise tax). I couldn't find the check I'd written nor the copy of
>the bill I'd been sent. I know I have both these things but in my panic it
>was easier to call Town Hall, give them my last name, confirm my address
>and say thank you when they told me I was up to date.

Here in the town of Bar Harbor, they never bill anyone for vehicle excise
tax---they expect people to remember.  On the other hand, this year I
forgot to take along my proof of insurance, so the woman called Audrey down
at Swan Insurance and had her fax a copy to us in the office.

cwv

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 13:54:35 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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At 01:50 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>At 01:22 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, lisa wrote:
>
>>I pay it on my car (yes, it's taxed twice.. once for sales tax and once a
>>year for excise tax). I couldn't find the check I'd written nor the copy of
>>the bill I'd been sent. I know I have both these things but in my panic it
>>was easier to call Town Hall, give them my last name, confirm my address
>>and say thank you when they told me I was up to date.
>
>Here in the town of Bar Harbor, they never bill anyone for vehicle excise
>tax---they expect people to remember.  On the other hand, this year I
>forgot to take along my proof of insurance, so the woman called Audrey down
>at Swan Insurance and had her fax a copy to us in the office.
>
>cwv

What do you need the insurance card for? Are you paying excise at the time
of re- registration?

lisa

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: no cats, no chick peas
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At 11:24 AM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> > We saw on guy on the Vampire Tour in New Orleans
> > who had implants, or so we were told.
>
>That guy's a dick.

I agree totally.  I could have done without that tour and was sorry we did
it but . . . .

Betty

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At 01:54 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, lisa wrote:

>What do you need the insurance card for? Are you paying excise at the time
>of re- registration?

Yes.  It's all of a piece.  Ours comes due in July, because that's when we
moved here and first registered the car.

cwv

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:31:38 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> >     They do get feline distemper.
>
> Isn't that a bad thing?

    Yes.

JMW

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At 02:20 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>At 01:54 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, lisa wrote:
>
>>What do you need the insurance card for? Are you paying excise at the time
>>of re- registration?
>
>Yes.  It's all of a piece.  Ours comes due in July, because that's when we
>moved here and first registered the car.
>
>cwv

Yeah.. we're not that organized here.

My insurance is due in January. Carlotta's (yes Karen I named my car)
registration is ever couple years. Excise tax bills will be out soon, due
in April.

The excise bill came at the same time of year when I lived in Newton but of
course the city of Newton benefited from the money rather than the city of
Medford. For some reason I never had a hard time remembering I paid that
bill. Odd too as it's way more expensive now than it was when I lived in
Newton.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 13:37:42 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:35:28 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
Organization: Mesa Community College
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Marie Ascher wrote:

> I guess many "insights" come from having really stupid ideas in the first
> place.

    "Where does good judgment come from?  Experience.
     Where does experience come from?  Bad judgment."

JMW

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lisa alfieri wrote:

>
> My insurance is due in January. Carlotta's (yes Karen I named my car)
> registration is ever couple years.

                        ^^^^
    Typo, or Midwestern upbringing?

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 13:47:20 2003
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Ghostbustin' Betty:
>I could have done without that tour and was
>sorry we did it but . . . .

Yeah, I'll bet they don't get much word-of-mouth
business.  It seems like anyone I talk to who's
been on one of those tours feels shortchanged.
Hotel concierges must be getting some sweeeeeet
kickbacks to hawk that crap.

Even more galling is that one of my watering holes
was snatched from me; the guy bought the joint not
as a bar, but as the jumping-off point for those
mob scenes.  Bastard.

--
Richard                      17, 20

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 13:49:48 2003
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At 12:42 PM 2/12/2003 -0700, John Williams wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> >
> > My insurance is due in January. Carlotta's (yes Karen I named my car)
> > registration is ever couple years.
>
>                         ^^^^
>     Typo, or Midwestern upbringing?
>
>JMW

Are you kidding me? Have you forgotten who you're talking to? I'm the queen
of typos and misspellings.

lisa
born, raised and living in the north east.

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At 01:46 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Ghostbustin' Betty:
> >I could have done without that tour and was
> >sorry we did it but . . . .
>
>Yeah, I'll bet they don't get much word-of-mouth
>business.  It seems like anyone I talk to who's
>been on one of those tours feels shortchanged.
>Hotel concierges must be getting some sweeeeeet
>kickbacks to hawk that crap.
>
>Even more galling is that one of my watering holes
>was snatched from me; the guy bought the joint not
>as a bar, but as the jumping-off point for those
>mob scenes.  Bastard.

Indeed.  We did meet at a really cool bar. Should have stayed there.

Betty

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> Indeed.  We did meet at a really cool bar. Should have stayed there.

The Morgue?

That's where I used to drink, in its previous incarnation
as Giovanni's.

--
Richard                      17, 20

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------- Forwarded message follows -------

>From [Argus Hamilton] column today:

"President Bush declared Thursday that the game is over for Iraq.
We were attacked by Saudi Arabians, so he overthrew Afghanistan.
Then we were threatened by North Korea, so he's attacking Iraq.

Nothing clears the saloon like a cross-eyed gunfighter...."

------- End of forwarded message -------


BrP

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To: <yumra@earthlink.net>
Cc: <100130.1004@compuserve.com>, <yuehjyh@ms8.hinet.net>,
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From: "Peter Dude" <gameup14@asan.sch.ac.kr>
Subject: Why does this cost so much to travel abroad?27272
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 12:03:59 -2000
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Undervalued Weekly Reporter Initiates Coverage:
OTCBB: LAIR

UWR ALERT: Since September 11th traveling by air has
become a combat zone. This Belgian airline carrier is
taking over Sabena's once coveted Brussels hub, creating
low-cost direct international routes and providing high
quality service. With all of its competitive advantages
L-AIR Holdings (OTC BB: LAIR) is destined to become the
"JetBlue" (NASDAQ: BLU) of Europe.

HOW TO BENEFIT FROM THE AIRLINE CARRIER/TRAVEL CRISIS
BY INVESTING IN HIGH GROWTH SAFE, SECURE and PROFITABLE
GLOBAL CARRIERS? L-Air Holdings, Inc. (OTC BB: LAIR) -
US$20M in revenue immediately from its first three routes.

Shares Outstanding-----------------22.305 Million
Shares in DTC----------------------4.5 Million
    DTC shares m'gt friendly-------900k
    DTC management shares----------3.2 Million
    DTC shares in public float-----400k
Recent Price-----------------------$0.185
Year Low/Hi------------------------$0.09 - $0.185
Visist Website at lair.com

If you are a frequent or even some-time airline passenger
then you already know how important it is to not only
receive a low-priced fare, but to get the most expeditious
and friendly customer service possible. This is where most
international airline carriers have failed since September
11th. Now that war with Iraq is likely, further financial
crisis at most of the major airlines is also likely.
Alternative international air carriers flying under flags
from countries not likely to be the target of terrorist
attack are seeing their bookings increase dramatically.

So who benefits from this? The airline carriers in
countries such as Belgium, France, Norway and others
that, can operate safely and securely within this
framework, while not sacrificing customer service and
satisfaction through pricing. That is one of the reasons
why we believe L-Air Holdings, Inc. (OTCBB: LAIR) will
succeed particularly well in the short term. Long-term
we feel that the OTCBB: LAIR business model combined
with implementation by its impressive management team
and in-place financiers will bring much higher valuations
to this stock.

The Company's commitment to cost efficiencies and customer
satisfaction is at the core of its business model, just
like JetBlue (NASDAQ: JBLU), Southwest Air (NYSE: LUV),
and easyJet.com, all of whom are very successful within
their respective markets and industry leaders. This
international carrier is on the path to success. Fortune
Magazine recently stated that Southwest Airlines is the
all-time #1 successful investment. We feel L-Air Holdings
is on a similar path.

As recently reported in SPEEDNEWS (speednews.com),
the newsletter of record for the aviation industry,
L-Air Holdings is in the process of acquiring a European
airline, Belgium Universal Airways, in order to receive
an AOC (air operations certificate). Within one-month
of finalizing the acquisition currently being negotiated
and receipt of its AOC, expected to be complete by March 1,
2003, LAIR will operate two Airbus A340-300 aircraft over
three high-traffic routes. Contracts for these routes are
in place with tour operators and other agencies providing
an initial and immediate revenue stream of approximately
US$400k weekly, or annualized revenues in excess of $20
million from existing contracts.

Based in Brussels, Belgian Universal Airways, through
direct ownership by OTCBB: LAIR, is being transformed
into a low-priced passenger airline providing exceptional
customer service, much like its USA based counterpart,
JetBlue (NASDAQ: JBLU). The Company plans an aggressive
expansion campaign as led by its capable ex-Sabena staff
and management with its financier and 51% owner Universal
Capital Partners (UCP). UCP has already spent over US$5
million and committed an additional US$10 million in cash
to the Company's initial operating budget. UCP has also
signed leases with major aircraft manufacturers to provide
LAIR with at least 5-Airbus 340-300 aircraft by year-end.
UCP is a majority shareholder of LAIR.

LAIR expects to take delivery of the first two freshly
painted jets in April 2003 with the following routes to
be serviced:

Route 1) Brussels -to- Puntancana (Caribbean - one of
the heaviest European tourist destinations currently)

Route 2) Yervena -to- LAX (Contracts with Armenian agency
to provide this much needed service to be announced upon
successful completion of acquisition)

Route 3) Toronto -to- Montreal -to- Delhi, India (No
competition on this highly lucrative and much needed
route as of yet)

Three additional Airbus 340's are to be acquired through
leases in the Fall of 2003. The carrier proposes to launch
new operations from its Brussels hub in April 2003.

Ask anyone in the airline industry what is the most
promising source of revenue growth with the current
political situation and insurance cost nightmare for
U.S. and other majors and many will agree that small
carriers with high-traffic routes and good low
maintenance cost aircraft are the key. Focusing on
profitable long haul routes with low-cost maintenance
jets, while providing exceptional customer satisfaction
OTCBB: LAIR is one of these carriers. The Company's
commitment to cost efficiencies and customer satisfaction
is at the core of its business model, just like JetBlue
(NASDAQ: JBLU), Southwest Air (NYSE: LUV), and easyJet.com
all of whom are very successful within their respective
markets and industry leaders. This international carrier
is on the path to success.

About the Co. - Belgian Universal Airways, OTCBB: LAIR
Europe needs a safe and decent, well run Airline, managed
by highly qualified and experienced staff, that will
provide good service at a fair price for everyone. Since
the closure of Sabena in 2001 (the Belgian National
Airline) due to Swiss Air's bankruptcy (Swiss Air had
recently bought Sabena), there has been a need to revive
the once thriving wide International Flight Network based
in Brussels. In addition, since the September 11 tragedy,
carriers that are not terrorist targets are increasingly
being called upon to pick up these routes.

Through an acquisition of 49% of Belgian Universal Airways
by OTCBB: LAIR, UCP and Sabena's Captain Raymond Nicolai
are now preparing to meet this need. Universal Capital
Partners (UCP) is currently negotiating with the airline
to finalize an acquisition that will give UCP 51%
ownership, while 49% will reside with OTCBB: LAIR.

UCP is the single largest shareholder of OTCBB: LAIR
currently. This structure is necessary to meet ownership
requirements mandating that 51% of a European air carrier
be European owned.

Captain Raymond Nicolai has dedicated his life to Aviation
since 1968. He is an ex-Belgian Air Force fighter pilot
and is an instructor on many types of Aircraft including
the company's chosen A340. Captain Nicolai is bringing
many of the former Sabena management and staff that will
comprise the bulk of the company's 100 plus in number
workforce. These well trained ex-Sabena staff members
are dedicated to the Company's (OTCBB: LAIR) mission of
creating a new Belgian National Airline that represents
excellence in all aspects, including on-time flights,
the highest level of customer service, cost efficiencies
in operations and maximization of profitability for its
investors.

With the addition of many new international direct routes
to markets including Asia, Middle East, Africa, USA,
Canada, Caribbean and Europe the Company has a better
than average chance of achieving success due to the
lack of any competition servicing these routes currently.
Belgian Universal will operate a fleet of 5 Airbus
A340-300 aircraft capable of seating 220 Economy seats,
30 Business class full comfort pitch seat, and 10 First
class sleeperettes. All Belgian Universal's aircraft
feature roomy all-leather seats each equipped with
satellite phones and full individual multi-media systems
capable of delivering many different forms of
entertainment, including: a large selection of movies /
videos, music (MP3 and other format), computer/video games,
and the soon to be offered "on-board" Internet services.
All available at every seat along with the many high
quality amenities not found on existing air carriers
competing with the Company (OTCBB: LAIR).

With Belgian Universal, all seats are assigned, a good
percentage of travel is ticketless, all fares are one-way,
and a Saturday night stay is never required.

For more information, schedules and fares, please visit
Website at lair.com. Press releases, can be found on
the website at lair.com.

Airline industry experts agree that the most promising
source of revenue growth with the current political
situation and insurance cost nightmare for U.S. and
other majors is within the group of small carriers with
high-traffic routes and low-maintenance cost aircraft.
Focusing on profitable long haul routes with low-cost
maintenance jets, while providing exceptional customer
service, OTCBB: LAIR is one of these carriers. The
Company's commitment to cost efficiencies and customer
satisfaction is at the core of its business model, just
like JetBlue (NASDAQ: JBLU), Southwest Air (NYSE: LUV),
and easyJet.com, all of whom are very successful within
their respective markets and industry leaders. This
international carrier is on the path to success.


*** Special Financial-Stock Opt-in mailing list Offer ***

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you will be among the first to receive up to the minute
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well as a free 10-day trial to a website with real-time
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Thank you.


******************************************************
***********************Disclaimer********************
Information within this email contains "forward looking
statements" within the meaning of Section 27A of the
Securities Act of 1933 and Section 21B of the Securities
Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements that express or
involve discussions with respect to predictions, goals,
expectations, beliefs, plans, projections, objectives,
assumptions or future events or performance are not
statements of historical fact and may be "forward
looking statements."

Forward looking statements are based on expectations,
estimates and projections at the time the statements
are made that involve a number of risks and uncertainties
which could cause actual results or events to differ
materially from those presently anticipated. Forward
looking statements in this action may be identified
through the use of words such as: "projects", "foresee",
"expects", "estimates," "believes," "understands" "will,"
"anticipates," or that by statements indicating certain
actions "may," "could," or "might" occur. All information
provided within this email pertaining to investing, stocks,
securities must be understood as information provided and
not investment advice. Emerging Equity Alert advises all
readers and subscribers to seek advice from a registered
professional securities representative before deciding to
trade in stocks featured within this email. None of the
material within this report shall be construed as any
kind of investment advice.

In compliance with the Securities Act of 1933,
Section17(b), Undervalued Weekly Reporter discloses
the receipt of 167,500 unrestricted shares of LAIR
from a third party for the publication of this report.
Be aware of an inherent conflict of interest resulting
from such compensation due to our intent to profit from
the liquidation of these shares.  Shares may be sold at
any time, even after positive statements have been made
regarding the above company. All factual information in
this report was gathered from public sources, including
but not limited to SEC filings, Company Press Releases,
and Market Guide.

Undervalued Weekly Reporter believes this information
to be reliable but can make no guarantee as to its
accuracy or completeness. Use of the material within
this email constitutes your acceptance of these terms.

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 14:20:12 2003
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From: Groothof2@aol.com
Message-ID: <12e.22c9b9b3.2b7c061f@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:18:39 EST
Subject: Re: A Smashing Success
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
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In a message dated 2/12/2003 10:40:50 AM, lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<< I really need a dog.

Marie
 >>

I do too. My cat just knocked down a big plant because she was walking on the
plant stand that's in front of the window. My favorite (BIG) plant is now on
the floor in the middle of the broken pot pieces. Soil all over the carpet.
Am not able to move the plantstand (large wooden one I build myself in my
good years)
Never had that problem with any of my dogs. Theo

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
Message-ID: <c1.2e861fb3.2b7c09c4@aol.com>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:34:12 EST
Subject: Re: This is...
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In a message dated 2/11/2003 11:28:05 PM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:

<<  What I
consider a safe distance to be behind the car in front of me most
Dutch drivers view as a gap to be filled.  Grrrr. >>

Yes, I know what you mean. When I was visiting a few years back, one of my
nephews was talking about it, and when he took me out on the road I
experienced it with my own eyes. Vehicles are like toys to them to play with
as they see fit, I'm afraid.
Aside from recently built highways, the city streets were never intended for
high speed vehicles, especially the side streets. I didn't mean to defend
Dutch drivers, I assure you. Theo

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: no cats, no chick peas
In-Reply-To: <Pine.A41.4.53.0302121407280.827528@neo1>
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At 02:09 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> > Indeed.  We did meet at a really cool bar. Should have stayed there.
>
>The Morgue?
>
>That's where I used to drink, in its previous incarnation
>as Giovanni's.

Sounds familiar but maybe Larry has a better memory.

Betty

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:27:52 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Goodbye to an old friend
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--On Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 4:52 AM -0600 Natalie Maynor
<natalie@MAYNOR.NET> wrote:

> A nice tribute.  I've never heard of a baby tooth hanging around so
> long.  Is it because the permanent tooth failed to show up?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Exactly.  There is/was no permanent tooth.

Terry

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> Exactly.  There is/was no permanent tooth.

That happened to my sister when she was a teenager. The permanent teeth came
in but the baby tooth never fell out. She wore braces for a couple of years
to pull the permanent teeth into the gap.

-aht

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 15:38:41 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:35:32 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Goodbye to an old friend
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> Which tooth is it?
>
> Betty

Second premolar lower left.  Doesn't show.
Terry

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Wednesday, February 12, 2003 at 9:21, steph wrote:

[Cliff Stoll]

> Dead people server doesn't know him, and he has a web page at
> Berkely, but it's the kind of thing that could be years old.  So,
> no proof anyway, but it doesn't look like it.

His site http://www.kleinbottle.com/ looks pretty current.

Tony H.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:10:20 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:09:44 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dip
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 6:15:34 AM, you wrote:
>
>>I miss taramosalata.  Yum.  I'll have to stock up when I
>>visit NE this summer.
>>
>
> You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
> don't think you have to go to Maine.


        We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
Louis to find specialty items.  I did find it once in a
Russian grocery, but the store closed.  I'll hit the Greek
groceries in Roslindale when I'm there (not in Maine).




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:12:23 2003
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At 04:09 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>Karen Kay wrote:
>
>>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 6:15:34 AM, you wrote:
>>
>>>I miss taramosalata.  Yum.  I'll have to stock up when I
>>>visit NE this summer.
>>
>>You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
>>don't think you have to go to Maine.
>
>
>        We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
>Louis to find specialty items.  I did find it once in a
>Russian grocery, but the store closed.  I'll hit the Greek
>groceries in Roslindale when I'm there (not in Maine).

You're more likely to find Brazilian in Rozzie these days.

>--
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>http://www.etext.org/~rita
>

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:13:13 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:12:33 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: A Smashing Success
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Marie Ascher wrote:

>> From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>> But I've missed night two of the dog show, thus missing the hounds, my
>> favorites.  I should've taped it.
>
>
> You know who won don't you? My boy Mick!


        I saw!  I'd hold off inquiring about a puppy until people
forget about Westminster :).  The winning breed always sees
an upsurge inpopularity.


> As I was watching, though, I thought about how I could love so many of
> them.
> Golden Retrievers and Yellow Labs I love. I love the Bloodhound. The
> English
> Setter and Irish Setters. Spaniels -- Cockers and Springers.
> I really need a dog.


        Lots of really nice English setters out there.  They're a
good running companion, too.  Less mischevious than their
Irish cousins.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:13:30 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:12:54 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: TMI
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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        I'm am happy your tubes are clean as a whistle.

Marie Ascher wrote:

> Speaking of TMI, all the froggy fallopian stuff yesterday went well. One
> side was a little faster than the other at filling and spilling, but
> ultimately both tubes were patent. The procedure can be therapeutic as well
> as diagnostic, so it's possible he knocked some adhesions free. We'll see!
>
> Marie
>   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:14:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:14:07 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dip
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> At 08:18 PM 2/11/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>> Betty wrote:
>>
>>> At 11:05 PM 2/11/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>>>
>>>> = >>>I'm in as long as I get to chose who I'm positioned next to.
>>>> = >>
>>>> = >>Who would you choose?
>>>> = >>
>>>> = >>Marie
>>>> = >
>>>> = >Are you kidding me? Answer that question in a public space? No
>>>> freakin' way
>>>> = >Marie, no freakin' way!
>>>> =
>>>> = Let's all guess.
>>>>
>>>> You first BB.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I guess Rita.
>>>
>>> Betty
>>
>>
>>        Yeah, I'm like, soooo a red hot mama.
>
>
> So you think I'm the red hot mama type? Huh. Interesting.


        No, actually, I really never thought about what your type
would be.  I just thought Betty's suggestion was funny.  I
do picture Tina as cute, though, probably because I had a
cute roommate named Tina once.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:16:42 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dip
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> At 04:09 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>> Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>>> Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 6:15:34 AM, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> I miss taramosalata.  Yum.  I'll have to stock up when I
>>>> visit NE this summer.
>>>
>>>
>>> You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
>>> don't think you have to go to Maine.
>>
>>
>>
>>        We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
>> Louis to find specialty items.  I did find it once in a
>> Russian grocery, but the store closed.  I'll hit the Greek
>> groceries in Roslindale when I'm there (not in Maine).
>
>
> You're more likely to find Brazilian in Rozzie these days.
>


        There's still a strong Greek neighborhood there.  My brother
lives in it.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:20:16 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:09:03 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Goodbye to an old friend
In-Reply-To: <1390679618.1045067732@LAPLAND>
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At 04:35 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > Which tooth is it?
> >
> > Betty
>
>Second premolar lower left.  Doesn't show.

What does your dentist recommend?  Will your teeth shift too much if you do
nothing?

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:22:29 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:21:52 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Love vs. in-love
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>>
>>         A lot of self-involvment makes me depressed, so I'd conclude
>> that it doesn't do good things for me.  Crushes are
>> wonderful, but honestly Janet, I like the love I have now so
>> much more than falling in love. It's less exciting, but it
>> feels much, much better.  People on the list who have been
>> married longer than I have may agree or disagree.
>
>
> You forget -- I've had both. Both of my long-term relationships
> lasted somewhere between 13 and 14 years (Ben says I'm "just a
> 14-year kind of chick" -- the seven year itch times two?). I loved,
> and still love, both of the men involved. Loving someone doesn't mean
> you can live with them, or that they're good for you -- I've seen
> *very* few relationships in which all three pertain.



        No, I didn't forget.


 Most often,
> close examination shows that one person or the other has given up
> their selfhood in order to maintain the relationship. The
> death-do-us-part model was formed in a milieu where it was normal and
> expected for the woman to do exactly that; it's only in the last few
> decades that we've begun to demand anything else -- and look what's
> happened to relationship longevity in those few decades.


        Well, maybe we younger folks are adjusting to the change now.


> It's not realistic, IMO, to expect a single relationship to bear the
> burden of being a sexual outlet *and* a friendship *and* a working
> partnership *and* a roommatehood *and* a source of growth and
> pleasure for both involved. But for those who have found such
> relationships -- well, lucky folks. I don't think it happens often.


        I don't expect my husband to be all things to me.  That's why
I'm not a romantic, I guess.  I also don't need multiple
sexual outlets, and that's helpful.  That might be a true
rarity.  I don't expect him to be a source of growth, and he
isn't.  I see that as outside the scope of marriage.






--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:24:12 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:22:03 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: A Smashing Success
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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>         Lots of really nice English setters out there.  They're a
> good running companion, too.  Less mischevious than their
> Irish cousins.

I grew up with a Gordon setter. You don't see as many of them around, but
they're lovely dogs.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:30:39 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:29:59 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: A Smashing Success
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>>        Lots of really nice English setters out there.  They're a
>>good running companion, too.  Less mischevious than their
>>Irish cousins.
>>
>
> I grew up with a Gordon setter. You don't see as many of them around, but
> they're lovely dogs.


        Yes, more stubborn than Irish or English -- it is written
into their standard -- but rock steady temperments.  I often
work with Gordon rescue.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:35:00 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:35:15 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Love vs. in-love
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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>         Well, maybe we younger folks are adjusting to the change now.

The statistics say otherwise, I believe.

> > It's not realistic, IMO, to expect a single relationship to bear the
> > burden of being a sexual outlet *and* a friendship *and* a working
> > partnership *and* a roommatehood *and* a source of growth and
> > pleasure for both involved. But for those who have found such
> > relationships -- well, lucky folks. I don't think it happens often.
>
>         I don't expect my husband to be all things to me.  That's why
> I'm not a romantic, I guess.  I also don't need multiple
> sexual outlets, and that's helpful.  That might be a true
> rarity.  I don't expect him to be a source of growth, and he
> isn't.  I see that as outside the scope of marriage.

How does that correlate with your contention that people are improved by
romantic love?

Janet

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:37:28 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: No wreathe (sic)  but
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02002-12-20 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
> I could do that.   You should have come to Snow Bash, T Bone.  You could
> have fallen in love with my chocolate-covered nuts like Betty did.   I
> definitely could knit you a hat.  I do watch hats:  wide rib, turn over
> edge.   What color would you like?  I just made a nice black one for
> someone in Vermont.

Sure!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:42:48 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:41:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 12:27:31 PM, you wrote:
> 02003-02-12 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> >> >> "I am sitting in meeting for worship, and the phrase, "the
>> >> >> transforming power of love" goes through my mind over and over
>> >> >> again. Suddenly, I almost laugh aloud. I realize that my whole
>> >> >> life I have thought of the phrase as meaning, "I love, you
>> >> >> transform." Suddenly I realize that loving transforms the lover,
>> >> >> not necessarily the loved! I realize that I have unconsciously
>> >> >> thought of love as a tool to get people to do or be what I want.
>> >> >> But in fact, love is not a tool for me to use; rather, I am to be
>> >> >> a tool of love. Not only that, but in the process, love will
>> >> >> tool, reshape and transform me."
>> >>
>> >> > WEIRD, HUH.
>> >>
>> >>No, not weird. That's why I liked it.
>> >
>> > I guess many "insights" come from having really stupid ideas in the first
>> > place.
>>
>> Huh? I think that sometimes an insight is the realization that your original
>> idea was stupid.

> In K-R-N terms: WTF kinda education do you have if you get the
> bizarre "stupid idea" in the first place?

I'm sorry, in what alternate reality would I ask this? Many
people who have excellent educations also have stupid ideas.

>  Somebody who formulates
> "I love, you transform" is a little green man from planet Zork
> who hasn't heard a single poem, song, folk tale or fairy story ...

You, are an idiot.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:43:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 14:32:37 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Dip
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At 04:14 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
>>At 08:18 PM 2/11/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>>
>>>Betty wrote:
>>>
>>>>At 11:05 PM 2/11/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>= >>>I'm in as long as I get to chose who I'm positioned next to.
>>>>>= >>
>>>>>= >>Who would you choose?
>>>>>= >>
>>>>>= >>Marie
>>>>>= >
>>>>>= >Are you kidding me? Answer that question in a public space? No
>>>>>freakin' way
>>>>>= >Marie, no freakin' way!
>>>>>=
>>>>>= Let's all guess.
>>>>>
>>>>>You first BB.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I guess Rita.
>>>>
>>>>Betty
>>>
>>>
>>>        Yeah, I'm like, soooo a red hot mama.
>>
>>
>>So you think I'm the red hot mama type? Huh. Interesting.
>
>
>        No, actually, I really never thought about what your type
>would be.  I just thought Betty's suggestion was funny.  I
>do picture Tina as cute, though, probably because I had a
>cute roommate named Tina once.

Well, I was trying to think of the people who I knew were going to be
there. I ruled out Big 'Al

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:44:18 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:43:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 12:46:44 PM, you wrote:
> Also, they can get pneumonitis---which has flu/cold-like symptoms.  Is she
> still eating?

Yes. And thank you for reminding me to feed her before I go out!

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:46:19 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:45:08 -0600
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 1:31:38 PM, you wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:

>> >     They do get feline distemper.
>>
>> Isn't that a bad thing?

>     Yes.

What are other <signs>? I guess I could google. If she has
anything that cats die from, she's dead meat, I'm afraid, because
I'm not taking her to the vet.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:47:11 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:46:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 1:34:55 PM, you wrote:
> Carlotta's (yes Karen I named my car)

Envision me gagging.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 16:51:41 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:50:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 4:09:44 PM, you wrote:
>> You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
>> don't think you have to go to Maine.

>         We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
> Louis to find specialty items.

What I was trying to say is that you don't need any Greeks to
have it. Austin has horrible Greek food, but you can buy
taramosalata in a bunch of different grocery stores.

Though smaller than St. Louis, I suppose that Austin is far more
civilized. I dunno.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:02:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:02:58 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Dip
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 4:09:44 PM, you wrote:
> >> You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
> >> don't think you have to go to Maine.
>
> >         We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
> > Louis to find specialty items.
>
> What I was trying to say is that you don't need any Greeks to
> have it. Austin has horrible Greek food, but you can buy
> taramosalata in a bunch of different grocery stores.

When I was in SF, I bought it at a Chinese produce stand in the Richmond
District.

Janet
now craving some

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:04:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 5:02:58 PM, you wrote:

>> Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 4:09:44 PM, you wrote:
>> >> You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
>> >> don't think you have to go to Maine.
>>
>> >         We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
>> > Louis to find specialty items.
>>
>> What I was trying to say is that you don't need any Greeks to
>> have it. Austin has horrible Greek food, but you can buy
>> taramosalata in a bunch of different grocery stores.

> When I was in SF, I bought it at a Chinese produce stand in the Richmond
> District.

> Janet
> now craving some

QED. Thank you.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:07:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:06:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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White Noise by Don De Lillo.

Did anybody read it? Did you like it?

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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02003-02-12 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> > In K-R-N terms: WTF kinda education do you have if you get the
> > bizarre "stupid idea" in the first place?
>
> I'm sorry, in what alternate reality would I ask this? Many
> people who have excellent educations also have stupid ideas.

That is inconsistent with your inquiring after people's
educations in every known case ...

> >  Somebody who formulates
> > "I love, you transform" is a little green man from planet Zork
> > who hasn't heard a single poem, song, folk tale or fairy story ...
>
> You, are an idiot.

No, K-R-N, you have become a gee-whiz Oprah-watcher. ALAS!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:13:48 2003
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"Espen S. Ore" wrote:

> This reminds me of the theory (by one of the brothers Grimm?) that the Germanic
consonant sound shift came because the proto Germanic people livet up in
the mountains in thin air.

The theory of the *why* was Grimm's?  (It was Jacob, btw, who got his
name attached to Grimm's Law, although he wasn't the first person to
notice it.)  Anyway, I guess it makes sense that it would be hard to say
things like bh in thin air.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:15:25 2003
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
> >Are you still in an investment club, Bethany?  Did y'all invest in
> >duct-tape stock?
>
> Home Depot.

Not bad, though a duct-tape manufacturer or wholesaler might be better.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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elaine.personal.lists@ATT.NET wrote:

> Assuming we're talking about Cliff Stolll, I know that he showed up in San Jose in August for worldcon.

So who's going to help me figure out who died?  It's bugging me.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
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> White Noise by Don De Lillo.
> Did anybody read it? Did you like it?
> Karen

I tried one or two chapters and ditched it.

I don't know, seems like he tries too hard or something.  I forget.

Ann

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02003-02-12 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> I'll get real if you start making sense. *What* is stalking by a
> narcissistic prig? The post? Or the phenomenon it describes? Or
> something else entirely?

Comrade, has the notion of "romantic love" not undergone a few
refinements in recent years? If your apparent focus on the "love
object" makes you angry, depressed, jealous, fearful, fatigued,
constipated, stupid, or an overall asshole towards innocent
members of your social circle, what is the real nature and
object of this focus? Please do not answer by saying "but it
makes me giddy". Puh!

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:19:42 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 5:15:53 PM, you wrote:

>> White Noise by Don De Lillo.
>> Did anybody read it? Did you like it?
>> Karen

> I tried one or two chapters and ditched it.

> I don't know, seems like he tries too hard or something.  I forget.

THANK YOU.

Yes, exactly. (No, really.)

I'm not sorry I read it, but I'm not ecstatically glad, either.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:21:32 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:20:12 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> Every year at tax time I panic over whether or not I've paid my excise tax.

Why do you pay excise tax?  What's it on?

>  Some how I managed to charm her into looking my name up and telling
> me that I'd paid $275.76 on April 5th of last year.

Wouldn't you have a receipt for that?  Or at least an indication of it
in your bank statement or check register?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:20:39 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Message-ID: <20030212232039.GC26507@pobox.com>
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            <a05200f23ba6f60abd590@[67.118.125.98]>
            <20030212180953.GD3897@pobox.com>
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02003-02-12 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 12:09:53 PM, you wrote:
> > K-R-N cannot go beyond single inflexible Oprah meanings of the words
> > "barrier", "occupy" etc. Hence, K-R-N will not be able to respond to
> > any aspect of your situation.
>
> > T Bone has spoken
>
> "Oprah meanings"?! Why do you hate me?

T Bone has no hate in his heart. We all know who the real haters
are--people who can't rest until they have made explicit, in
haranguing legalese, what "boundaries" and "barriers" etc are
in every case.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:22:19 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:21:06 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: For Tushar's eyes
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02003-02-12 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> ALGEBRAS, DIAGRAMS AND DECISIONS IN LANGUAGE, LOGIC AND COMPUTATION,
> Kees Vermeulen (CWI, the National Research Center for Mathematics and
> Computer Science ) and Ann Copestake (University of Cambridge
> Computer Laboratory), eds. .;paper ISBN: 1-57586-372-3, $25.00, cloth
> ISBN: 1-57586-371-5, $65.00,  183 pages. CSLI Publications.
> http://cslipublications.stanford.edu , email: pubs@csli.stanford.edu.
>
> To order this book, contact The University of Chicago Press. Call
> their toll free order number 1-800-621-2736  (U.S. & Canada only)  or
> order online at http://www.press.uchicago.edu/ (use the search
> feature to locate the book, then order).
>
> Book description:
>
> This volume is exemplary in showing how the shared interests of three
> different areas of research can lead to significant cooperation and
> fruitful exchanges of techniques. Six papers each present in an
> accessible way an exciting contribution to the study and use of
> algebras, diagrams and decisions. These themes are of interest to
> researchers in the areas of language, logic and computation.
>
> The types of contributions range from indispensable overview papers
> about shared formal methods to inspirational applications of formal
> tools to specific problems.
>
> Contributors to this volume are Pieter Adriaans, Sergei Artemov,
> Steven Givant, Edward Keenan, Almerindo Ojeda, Patrick Scotto di
> Luzio, and Edward Stabler.

Thank you, Karen.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:22:58 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:23:13 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: this week's resolution
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> 02003-02-12 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > I'll get real if you start making sense. *What* is stalking by a
> > narcissistic prig? The post? Or the phenomenon it describes? Or
> > something else entirely?
>
> Comrade, has the notion of "romantic love" not undergone a few
> refinements in recent years? If your apparent focus on the "love
> object" makes you angry, depressed, jealous, fearful, fatigued,
> constipated, stupid, or an overall asshole towards innocent
> members of your social circle, what is the real nature and
> object of this focus? Please do not answer by saying "but it
> makes me giddy". Puh!

Puh indeed. It has no (constructive) purpose; it is an addiction.

When I first started dealing with this matter -- which has not happened to
me often, and I just left the first person it happened with after 13 stormy
years -- I ran a websearch on the terms "infatuation" and "biochemistry."
The results were illuminating.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:27:40 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:26:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Bar Harbor Question
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Does McDonald's in BH serve Lobster McNuggets?

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:27:48 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Taken
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:30:15 -0600
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Any of you see Taken, a Steven Spielberg
mini-series that ran on the Sci-Fi channel
a while back?

I missed it but a friend taped it and lent me
the tapes.  3 tapes, each 6 hours long.  Last
night I sat down and watched 6 hours.
Whew!  Tonight I'll see if I make it through
another 6.

                - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:29:59 2003
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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Message-ID: <20030212232846.GE26507@pobox.com>
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02003-02-12 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> Puh indeed. It has no (constructive) purpose; it is an addiction.
>
> When I first started dealing with this matter -- which has not happened to
> me often, and I just left the first person it happened with after 13 stormy
> years -- I ran a websearch on the terms "infatuation" and "biochemistry."
> The results were illuminating.

Okay

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:38:47 -0500
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>From: "RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" <rjscheid@NADAL.LOYNO.EDU>
>On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Marie Ascher wrote:
> >(two points for the origin!).
>
>EGADS!  Look where he and Linda ended up!

Good point. It's still a nice sentiment.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:45:18 2003
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Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:44:00 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >  Somebody who formulates
> > "I love, you transform" is a little green man from planet Zork
> > who hasn't heard a single poem, song, folk tale or fairy story ...
>
>You, are an idiot.

I disagree. This pretty much sums up exactly what I meant.

Marie

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Subject: Re:      Re: Love vs. in-love
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:46:04 -0600
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> How does that correlate with your contention that people are improved by
> romantic love?

Who cares if it does or not? It might be good for some and bad for others.
What's the dealie?

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Tonoight's Book Club Book
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:46:09 -0500
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>From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@RAHUL.NET>
> > White Noise by Don De Lillo.
> > Did anybody read it? Did you like it?
> > Karen
>
>I tried one or two chapters and ditched it.
>
>I don't know, seems like he tries too hard or something.  I forget.

Me too. I remember when and where I bought it. George Street, Pyramid Books,
New Brunswick, NJ -- recommended by nice salesperson. Never finished it.

I think of the book often when I smell burnt toast, though.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:48:56 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 15:49:06 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Love vs. in-love
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>  > How does that correlate with your contention that people are improved by
>>  romantic love?
>
>Who cares if it does or not? It might be good for some and bad for others.
>What's the dealie?

I'm attempting to surmount mundanity, not create universal truth ;)

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:49:18 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:48:07 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: this week's resolution
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 5:44:00 PM, you wrote:
>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>> >  Somebody who formulates
>> > "I love, you transform" is a little green man from planet Zork
>> > who hasn't heard a single poem, song, folk tale or fairy story ...
>>
>>You, are an idiot.

> I disagree. This pretty much sums up exactly what I meant.

But fairly stories are full of love-objects that are transformed!
What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:49:51 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:46:41 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Goodbye to an old friend
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Thanks for the info, Janet, and a very happy belated birthday!

Terry

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:50:05 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 5:48:07 PM, you wrote:

> Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 5:44:00 PM, you wrote:
>>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>>> >  Somebody who formulates
>>> > "I love, you transform" is a little green man from planet Zork
>>> > who hasn't heard a single poem, song, folk tale or fairy story ...
>>>
>>>You, are an idiot.

>> I disagree. This pretty much sums up exactly what I meant.

> But fairly stories are full of love-objects that are transformed!

Fairy stories
folk tales

> What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 17:56:23 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 17:55:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 5:23:13 PM, you wrote:
> When I first started dealing with this matter -- which has not happened to
> me often, and I just left the first person it happened with after 13 stormy
> years -- I ran a websearch on the terms "infatuation" and "biochemistry."
> The results were illuminating.

You're right! http://tinyurl.com/5qvs

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:07:07 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:05:48 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?

A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
right time.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:07:28 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:04:17 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Goodbye to an old friend
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> What does your dentist recommend?  Will your teeth shift too much if you
> do nothing?
>
> Betty

He has made no specific recommendations, yet.  About a year ago he had the
hygenist go over options - implants, bridge, partial plate.  In reality
none of it sounds all that good.   There has been no shifting discussions
either.   I'm going in next week to have an upper mold done for the
whitening process so I'll ask some shifting questions then.

Terry

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:09:44 2003
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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Taken
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:12:46 -0600
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>Any of you see Taken, a Steven Spielberg
mini-series that ran on the Sci-Fi channel
a while back?

>I missed it but a friend taped it and lent me
the tapes.  3 tapes, each 6 hours long.  Last
night I sat down and watched 6 hours.
Whew!  Tonight I'll see if I make it through
another 6.

>                - D. M.

Apropos of nothing, I saw "Dead Man Walking" for the first time last night.

AS

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:09:09 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 6:05:48 PM, you wrote:
>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?

> A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
> right time.

Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!

Not.

Taketori Monogatari has the same theme--it's a pretty common one,
whether you admit it or not.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:12:14 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:10:52 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>
> > A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
> > right time.
>
>Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!
>
>Not.

Where's the love in the story? I really don't see it.

Marie



_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:13:25 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 16:13:39 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>  >From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>>  >>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>>
>>  > A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
>>  > right time.
>>
>>Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!
>>
>>Not.
>
>Where's the love in the story? I really don't see it.

The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:16:08 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:14:54 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 6:10:52 PM, you wrote:

>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>> >>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>>
>> > A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
>> > right time.
>>
>>Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!
>>
>>Not.

> Where's the love in the story? I really don't see it.

Leaving that aside for the moment (since I need to refresh my
memory as to the story), what about two stories I know better:
Snow White and Beauty and the Beast? Those also involve
transformation.

I have to go get ready to rake Don De Lillo over the coals.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:31:44 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:

> You know who won don't you? My boy Mick!

Yes.  I read it on cnn.com early this morning.

> As I was watching, though, I thought about how I could love so many of them.
> Golden Retrievers and Yellow Labs I love. I love the Bloodhound. The English
> Setter and Irish Setters. Spaniels -- Cockers and Springers.
> I really need a dog.

And don't forget the others you could love -- dogs like Spencer, with
crooked but clean teeth, a head of a lab, a body of a bloodhound, a
heart-murmur, and a history of being abandoned.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:33:39 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> (And then expected me to pet her--ugh!)

Did you?  I would think one who had just sneezed green snot might be
even needier of a hug than usual.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-12 | Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> >From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >>  Somebody who formulates
> >> "I love, you transform" is a little green man from planet Zork
> >> who hasn't heard a single poem, song, folk tale or fairy story ...
> >
> >You, are an idiot.
>
> I disagree. This pretty much sums up exactly what I meant.

Hey shut up stupid

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:44:29 2003
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02003-02-12 | Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> >From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>
> A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
> right time.

Speaking of which, has anybody met stoopids who espouse the
following theories about the two worst TV shows of recent
memory:

"The Bachelor": gold digging sluts!
"Joe Millionaire": poor deceived angels!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:45:25 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:44:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > I guess many "insights" come from having really stupid ideas in the first
> > place.
>
> Huh? I think that sometimes an insight is the realization that your original
> idea was stupid.

Isn't that what was just said?  If you didn't have the stupid idea, then
you wouldn't have that particular insight.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-12 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 6:05:48 PM, you wrote:
> >>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>
> > A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
> > right time.
>
> Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!
>
> Not.

What do you mean, "not"? It was the most favorite story of
several rock-loving dotcom babes I knew (and couldn't tell
it from zircon of course).

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:47:17 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:46:01 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> I pay it on my car (yes, it's taxed twice.. once for sales tax and once a
> year for excise tax).

Surely everybody pays that tax.  I'd just never heard it called an
excise tax.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 04:43 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 12:46:44 PM, you wrote:
> > Also, they can get pneumonitis---which has flu/cold-like symptoms.  Is she
> > still eating?
>
>Yes. And thank you for reminding me to feed her before I go out!

You're welcome.  The reason I asked is that with some conditions (e.g.,
pnuemonitis), their sense of smell is affected---and if cats can't smell
food, they won't eat it.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 18:57:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 18:56:26 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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A little while ago I was out on the decklet, and Spencer walked up
beside me and was standing there with his profile very clear.  I wished
for my camera and a way to take a picture of his profile like that.  It
would be fun to grab that bloodhound picture from the web and put
Spencer's right beside it, cutting off both heads.  Or switching the
heads.  The bodies are identical.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 05:26 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>Does McDonald's in BH serve Lobster McNuggets?

There is no McDonald's on the island.  For that matter, save one small
Subway franchise in BH, there are no fast-food chains represented on the
island.  This we see as one of the benefits.

There <are> McDonald's, as well as most other standard ff chains, on the
mainland in places like Ellsworth and Bucksport; McDonald's in such places
usually offer lobster rolls.  For the uninitiated, a lobster roll is chunks
of lobster, usually in some sort of mild mayonnaise, stuffed into a hot-dog
bun.  Lobster McNuggets, Zarkon be praised, are unknown at present.

cwv

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:15:12 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dip
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Betty Clark wrote:

> At 04:14 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> lisa alfieri wrote:
>>
>>> At 08:18 PM 2/11/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>>>
>>>> Betty wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> At 11:05 PM 2/11/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> = >>>I'm in as long as I get to chose who I'm positioned next to.
>>>>>> = >>
>>>>>> = >>Who would you choose?
>>>>>> = >>
>>>>>> = >>Marie
>>>>>> = >
>>>>>> = >Are you kidding me? Answer that question in a public space? No
>>>>>> freakin' way
>>>>>> = >Marie, no freakin' way!
>>>>>> =
>>>>>> = Let's all guess.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> You first BB.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> I guess Rita.
>>>>>
>>>>> Betty
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        Yeah, I'm like, soooo a red hot mama.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So you think I'm the red hot mama type? Huh. Interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>>        No, actually, I really never thought about what your type
>> would be.  I just thought Betty's suggestion was funny.  I
>> do picture Tina as cute, though, probably because I had a
>> cute roommate named Tina once.
>
>
> Well, I was trying to think of the people who I knew were going to be
> there. I ruled out Big 'Al
>


        You are a Smarty Pants.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:19:30 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Love vs. in-love
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>>        Well, maybe we younger folks are adjusting to the change now.
>>
>
> The statistics say otherwise, I believe.


        Not really. Divorce rates are falling, especially among
30-somethings.


>>>It's not realistic, IMO, to expect a single relationship to bear the
>>>burden of being a sexual outlet *and* a friendship *and* a working
>>>partnership *and* a roommatehood *and* a source of growth and
>>>pleasure for both involved. But for those who have found such
>>>relationships -- well, lucky folks. I don't think it happens often.
>>>
>>        I don't expect my husband to be all things to me.  That's why
>>I'm not a romantic, I guess.  I also don't need multiple
>>sexual outlets, and that's helpful.  That might be a true
>>rarity.  I don't expect him to be a source of growth, and he
>>isn't.  I see that as outside the scope of marriage.
>>
>
> How does that correlate with your contention that people are improved by
> romantic love?


        I didn't contend that.  I contended that it isn't necessarily
destructive.  I made no blanket contentions.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 19:21:49 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:21:11 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dip
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 4:09:44 PM, you wrote:
>
>>>You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
>>>don't think you have to go to Maine.
>>>
>
>>        We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
>>Louis to find specialty items.
>>
>
> What I was trying to say is that you don't need any Greeks to
> have it. Austin has horrible Greek food, but you can buy
> taramosalata in a bunch of different grocery stores.
>
> Though smaller than St. Louis, I suppose that Austin is far more
> civilized. I dunno.
>


        At the risk of sounding like Natalie, I have looked for it
around here and have only managed to scare some up at that
one Russian grocery that is now gone.  Believe me, I keep my
eyes open for such delicacies.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:27:36 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Love vs. in-love
Message-ID: <20030213012736.GD10512@pobox.com>
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02003-02-12 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>        I didn't contend that.  I contended that it isn't necessarily
> destructive.  I made no blanket contentions.

Oh what a smarty pants!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 19:43:53 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:42:48 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 5:23:13 PM, you wrote:
>
>>When I first started dealing with this matter -- which has not happened to
>>me often, and I just left the first person it happened with after 13 stormy
>>years -- I ran a websearch on the terms "infatuation" and "biochemistry."
>>The results were illuminating.
>>
>
> You're right! http://tinyurl.com/5qvs


        This explains why Ana's 1st grade classroom is becoming a bit
complicated with all the who-loves-who stuff going on
(Saturday night's slumber party should be fun).  Ana is
apparently an item with Joshua, but Mike is in hot pursuit.

        Regardless, the article I read clearly describes addiction to
infatuation as a pathology, not the norm:

"The ability to share many experiences with the love object
would operate to remove the "rosy colored smokescreen" of
infatuation, thus preventing this addiction." (The
Biochemistry of Falling in Love)

        My contention is that falling in love is a great deal of fun,
but that many people are clearly able to move past it to
something else, which I think of as established love.  You
contend that it is always a destructive addiction.

        In addition, I would not be in the least bit surprised that
people who enjoy the rush of S&M activities (the circle in
which you appear to travel most) would also be very into the
rush of infatuation, both being biochemical in nature.  I
contend that the rush is not necessarily destructive or
constructive.  Perhaps biochemical rushes are not unlike
alcohol -- some can enjoy them in moderation while others
cannot.

        Finally, I do not see infatuation crash as the leading cause
of divorce.  I have no statistics to back it up.  Just 9
months of working in a domestic relations law firm.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 19:44:48 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:44:10 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Love vs. in-love
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-02-12 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>
>>       I didn't contend that.  I contended that it isn't necessarily
>>destructive.  I made no blanket contentions.
>>
>
> Oh what a smarty pants!


        I do the smarty dance in my smarty pants
        OOH AH dance in smarty pants!




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 19:49:35 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Goodbye to an old friend
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:48:09 -0500
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> A nice tribute.  I've never heard of a baby tooth hanging around so
> long.  Is it because the permanent tooth failed to show up?

I still have a baby tooth - an adult tooth never formed to push it out.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 19:52:32 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Question for librarians
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:51:11 -0500
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> Every year at tax time I panic over whether or not I've paid my
> excise tax.
> Every year I call Town Hall and ask them what I paid so I can claim it.

What? How do you claim your car's excise tax? To think these past 10 years I
haven't....

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 20:58:14 2003
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Message-ID: <3E4B0976.E12CF608@maynor.net>
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 20:56:54 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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The hummus is in the white soup bowl:

http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/House-Feb03/dr.jpg

I took pictures because the person I bought the house from hasn't seen
it since the living room became a living room again and the dining room
a dining room.  (He's been back here only once -- late December of
'01.)  I've been meaning to take some for him for ages.  Many of the
ones I took look dark and murky, but I just sent him the url anyway.
Maybe I'll take some more later.

http://www.maynor.net/House-Feb03/

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 21:02:18 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Hummus in White
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:00:55 -0500
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> http://www.maynor.net/House-Feb03/

Nice pictures. Your house looks very comfortable.

--Adam

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:16:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:

> Nice pictures. Your house looks very comfortable.

Thank you.  It would be more comfortable to me if it were smaller.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 21:18:58 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:19:10 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>         This explains why Ana's 1st grade classroom is becoming a bit
>complicated with all the who-loves-who stuff going on
>(Saturday night's slumber party should be fun).  Ana is
>apparently an item with Joshua, but Mike is in hot pursuit.
>
>         Regardless, the article I read clearly describes addiction to
>infatuation as a pathology, not the norm:
>
>"The ability to share many experiences with the love object
>would operate to remove the "rosy colored smokescreen" of
>infatuation, thus preventing this addiction." (The
>Biochemistry of Falling in Love)

All that says to me is that when you spend enough time around your
crush object, the crush fades. Hardly news.

Addiction to infatuation is certainly pathological, but I don't see
infatuation as pathological in and of itself -- just useless.

>         My contention is that falling in love is a great deal of fun,
>but that many people are clearly able to move past it to
>something else, which I think of as established love.  You
>contend that it is always a destructive addiction.

I think that if being in what I guess I'd call mature love follows
infatuation, that's coincidence -- the infatuation object is rarely
suitable as a long-term partner. In the case of most people I know,
it's a reliable indicator that this person is *not* suitable as a
long-term partner -- the infatuation speaks to, or calls up, all the
worst, most destructive tendencies in the infatuee. In other words,
the things that make you hot today are the things that will destroy
the relationship once the biochemistry fades.

>         In addition, I would not be in the least bit surprised that
>people who enjoy the rush of S&M activities (the circle in
>which you appear to travel most) would also be very into the
>rush of infatuation, both being biochemical in nature.  I
>contend that the rush is not necessarily destructive or
>constructive.  Perhaps biochemical rushes are not unlike
>alcohol -- some can enjoy them in moderation while others
>cannot.

Actually, I've wondered about that too. If I were a research type,
I'd *love* to do some studies on dopamine and serotonin levels among
BDSMers -- I suspect the results would be interesting. (There were
those dopamine studies about risk-taking behaviors a couple of years
back; I believe we discussed them here.) A possibly related issue: I
believe that the rates of ADHD among BDSMers is way above the
statistical norm; we use BDSM as a source of focus and a calming
mechanism.

>         Finally, I do not see infatuation crash as the leading cause
>of divorce.  I have no statistics to back it up.  Just 9
>months of working in a domestic relations law firm.

What do you see as the leading cause of divorce? I'm not sure it's
infatuation crash per se, but more to do with the phenomenon I talked
about earlier -- that the infatuation object is rarely a suitable
long-term partner. Does anybody think that Romeo and Juliet would
have settled down to a comfortable middle age with lots of grandkids?

Janet

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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Hummus in White
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Adam Hartfield wrote:


> Nice pictures. Your house looks very comfortable.


>Thank you.  It would be more comfortable to me if it were smaller.


--
> -- Natalie

Well, time to junk it up some, then! :)

AS

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 21:21:04 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 19:21:17 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hummus in White
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I went out today looking for taramosalata and couldn't find any in
this neighborhood, not even in the ridiculously pricey and snotty
gourmet grocery :(

I'll have to do some homework to find out where to get it in Oakland,
I guess. Ben loves it too, so it's probably worth seeking out --
although it's basically pure olive oil, phenomenally high in points.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 21:25:24 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:24:12 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Amy Burns Short wrote:

> >Thank you.  It would be more comfortable to me if it were smaller.

> Well, time to junk it up some, then! :)

Oh, it's plenty junked up.  It's not that I have trouble filling up the
space with junk.  It's just that I'm happier in smaller spaces.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 21:25:45 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Hummus in White
Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:24:24 -0500
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> Thank you.  It would be more comfortable to me if it were smaller.

I'll trade my apartment for your house. :)

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 21:29:18 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 21:28:01 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:

> I'll trade my apartment for your house. :)

Your apartment is a perfect size for me.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 21:33:39 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Hummus in White
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At 09:28 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> > I'll trade my apartment for your house. :)
>
>Your apartment is a perfect size for me.

Natalie, why did you buy a too big house?

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 21:36:21 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 22:25:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Wed, 12 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>Oh, it's plenty junked up.  It's not that I have trouble filling up the
>space with junk.  It's just that I'm happier in smaller spaces.

I don't understand that. What about small spaces do you like so much?

Bethany

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:08:58 EST
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Not Found

The requested URL/House-Feb03/ was not found on this server.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Apache/1.3.26 Ben-SSL/1.48 Server at maynor.net Port 80

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 22:17:48 2003
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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:16:22 EST
Subject: Saturday
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Well, Saturday is my last day at Sears; they still haven't found anyone
to work evenings, but I decided that I can't wait anymore.

Going to cash in my 401K in order to pay off the credit cards and make
sure that we have several months' rent in the bank.

I feel sad in some ways:  I'll miss my friends there.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:28:09 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Not for Tushar's eyes
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In a message dated 02/12/2003 11:53:18 AM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Do cats get colds? Or have allergies? My cat has been sneezing a
lot, and today, she sneezed what looked like bright green snot.
(And then expected me to pet her--ugh!)


>>

Yep, they do.  One time, both Siegi and Muffy had colds and were
sneezing up a storm.
Time to get some medicine at the vet's.
Poor kitty.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:33:53 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Question for librarians
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In a message dated 02/12/2003 10:24:49 AM Central Standard Time,
williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU writes:

<<
Libraries are always
classic targets for things like this.

>>

And mass transit.  We're losing the bus (135) that takes us to the hospital
and the mall and the bus (233) that takes us to Wal-Mart.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:36:34 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] this week's resolution
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In a message dated 02/11/2003 9:03:25 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
I see nothing wrong with the one I bought at Wmart for $48.


>>

What brand?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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In a message dated 02/12/2003 6:14:33 PM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.


>>

I prefer the TV program; I usually don't watch romances, but I love
that one.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 23:22:28 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:15:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 6:32:23 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> (And then expected me to pet her--ugh!)
>
> Did you?  I would think one who had just sneezed green snot might be
> even needier of a hug than usual.

I don't hug her. I pet her with one hand, which I wash
immediately. No, I didn't pet her with green snot all over her
face. I waited till she washed.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 23:22:41 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:12:46 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 4:56:31 PM, you wrote:
> You're welcome.  The reason I asked is that with some conditions (e.g.,
> pnuemonitis), their sense of smell is affected---and if cats can't smell
> food, they won't eat it.

Hm. Well, she was eager to eat, but she hasn't eaten all her
dinner yet. I dunno. I just peeked at her (she sleeps on a chair
on my patio when it's this warm (63)), and she looked pretty
bleary eyed.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 12 23:51:10 2003
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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:31:36 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 10:28:09 PM, you wrote:
> One time, both Siegi and Muffy had colds and were
> sneezing up a storm.
> Time to get some medicine at the vet's.

No vet.

> Poor kitty.

Yes.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:32:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 10:33:53 PM, you wrote:
> And mass transit.  We're losing the bus (135) that takes us to the hospital
> and the mall and the bus (233) that takes us to Wal-Mart.

Eek! Those are serious. Have you thought about buying a car?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:26:06 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 7:21:11 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>>>        We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
>>>Louis to find specialty items.
>>
>> What I was trying to say is that you don't need any Greeks to
>> have it. Austin has horrible Greek food, but you can buy
>> taramosalata in a bunch of different grocery stores.
>>
>> Though smaller than St. Louis, I suppose that Austin is far more
>> civilized. I dunno.
>
>         At the risk of sounding like Natalie, I have looked for it
> around here and have only managed to scare some up at that
> one Russian grocery that is now gone.  Believe me, I keep my
> eyes open for such delicacies.

Well, I meant my last sentence. I remember that every trip out of
Kirksville, I used to stuff my suitcases full of food. But I also
meant my first sentence--it's not the critical mass you need to
find taramosalata, but any interest in foreign food.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:34:56 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Not for Tushar's eyes
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In a message dated 02/12/2003 11:31:41 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
> Time to get some medicine at the vet's.

No vet.


>>

at petsmart then?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:46:41 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:34:56 PM, you wrote:
> at petsmart then?

What cold medicine do they sell for cats?! Little kitty
decongestants????

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Wed, 12 Feb 2003 23:57:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 7:04:29 PM, you wrote:
> At 05:26 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>Does McDonald's in BH serve Lobster McNuggets?

> There is no McDonald's on the island.  For that matter, save one small
> Subway franchise in BH, there are no fast-food chains represented on the
> island.  This we see as one of the benefits.

> There <are> McDonald's, as well as most other standard ff chains, on the
> mainland in places like Ellsworth and Bucksport; McDonald's in such places
> usually offer lobster rolls.  For the uninitiated, a lobster roll is chunks
> of lobster, usually in some sort of mild mayonnaise, stuffed into a hot-dog
> bun.  Lobster McNuggets, Zarkon be praised, are unknown at present.

Thank you!

Who is Zarkon?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 00:53:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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On Caroline Rhea. Btw, the Read 'n' Feed said you all are Very
Smart.

Anyway. I think he looks like a goat.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding
grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an
imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.
How widespread is this? Are you guys all stocked up on
water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about
this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?

-Confused in Antwerp


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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16:50 12.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 4:09:44 PM, you wrote:
>>> You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
>>> don't think you have to go to Maine.
>
>>         We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
>> Louis to find specialty items.
>
>What I was trying to say is that you don't need any Greeks to
>have it. Austin has horrible Greek food, but you can buy
>taramosalata in a bunch of different grocery stores.

I have bought quite a lot of not very special taramosalata in Greek supermarkeds (in Greece). But I have also seen how people have bought taramo (smoked, salted cod roe) for making their own taramosalata, especially for the weekend in southern Peloponnese. But the best taramosalata I have had was at a small restaurant/taverna in the harbour in Pylos (a.k.a. Navarino for those interested in naval history) just down from the "Square for the four (three?) admirals". The taramosalata was not so blended as it often is - it had a tecture more as if it had been made with a fork.

Espen

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16:13 12.02.2003 -0800 skrev Janet Hardy:
>> >From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>>> >>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>>>
>>> > A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
>>> > right time.
>>>
>>>Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!
>>>
>>>Not.
>>
>>Where's the love in the story? I really don't see it.
>
>The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
>humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.

Not to mention Amor and Psyche - which is classified as the same in the Aarne/Thompson index, I believe.

Espen

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From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:12:46 +0100
Subject: Re: A Smashing Success
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18:30 12.02.2003 -0600 skrev Natalie Maynor:
>Marie Ascher wrote:
>
>> You know who won don't you? My boy Mick!
>
>Yes.  I read it on cnn.com early this morning.
>
>> As I was watching, though, I thought about how I could love so many of them.
>> Golden Retrievers and Yellow Labs I love. I love the Bloodhound. The English
>> Setter and Irish Setters. Spaniels -- Cockers and Springers.
>> I really need a dog.
>
>And don't forget the others you could love -- dogs like Spencer, with
>crooked but clean teeth, a head of a lab, a body of a bloodhound, a
>heart-murmur, and a history of being abandoned.

Or like the dalamatian/setters a friend of mine had: mother dalmatian, father English setter. English setters may be more set in their behavour than irish setters but a setter/dalmatian combination makes a very strong, very playful dog.

Espen

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 06:01:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
> >Oh, it's plenty junked up.  It's not that I have trouble filling up the
> >space with junk.  It's just that I'm happier in smaller spaces.
>
> I don't understand that. What about small spaces do you like so much?

I don't know exactly what it is.  Coziness?  Having everything I need
close to me at all times?  There are also practical values like cost of
heating and cooling.  I'm dreading getting my next gas bill, which
should be coming any day now.  I've been hearing lots of people say that
theirs have doubled or tripled this month.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 06:02:53 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>>         This explains why Ana's 1st grade classroom is becoming a bit
>> complicated with all the who-loves-who stuff going on
>> (Saturday night's slumber party should be fun).  Ana is
>> apparently an item with Joshua, but Mike is in hot pursuit.
>>
>>         Regardless, the article I read clearly describes addiction to
>> infatuation as a pathology, not the norm:
>>
>> "The ability to share many experiences with the love object
>> would operate to remove the "rosy colored smokescreen" of
>> infatuation, thus preventing this addiction." (The
>> Biochemistry of Falling in Love)
>
>
> All that says to me is that when you spend enough time around your
> crush object, the crush fades. Hardly news.


        No, it isn't.


> Addiction to infatuation is certainly pathological, but I don't see
> infatuation as pathological in and of itself -- just useless.


        Well, it worked for me!



> I think that if being in what I guess I'd call mature love follows
> infatuation, that's coincidence -- the infatuation object is rarely
> suitable as a long-term partner. In the case of most people I know,
> it's a reliable indicator that this person is *not* suitable as a
> long-term partner -- the infatuation speaks to, or calls up, all the
> worst, most destructive tendencies in the infatuee. In other words,
> the things that make you hot today are the things that will destroy
> the relationship once the biochemistry fades.


        I don't think it happens all the time, or we wouldn't have
couples breaking up, but I think it isn't unusual.


>>         In addition, I would not be in the least bit surprised that
>> people who enjoy the rush of S&M activities (the circle in
>> which you appear to travel most) would also be very into the
>> rush of infatuation, both being biochemical in nature.  I
>> contend that the rush is not necessarily destructive or
>> constructive.  Perhaps biochemical rushes are not unlike
>> alcohol -- some can enjoy them in moderation while others
>> cannot.
>
>
> Actually, I've wondered about that too. If I were a research type,
> I'd *love* to do some studies on dopamine and serotonin levels among
> BDSMers -- I suspect the results would be interesting. (There were
> those dopamine studies about risk-taking behaviors a couple of years
> back; I believe we discussed them here.) A possibly related issue: I
> believe that the rates of ADHD among BDSMers is way above the
> statistical norm; we use BDSM as a source of focus and a calming
> mechanism.


        I'm not sure everyone who thinks they have ADHD actually has
it -- there are a host of other disorders that mimic some
aspects of true ADHD, but many people get to that point and
stop investigating.  I think BDSMers may have hyposensory
issues in which it just takes a lot of stimulation to feel
good.  A whack that a normal person finds painful and
unpleasant may feel just right to somebody with
hyposensitivity -- and that is very calming.  I agree that
this would be an interesting study and would tell us a lot
about what kinds of misbehavior in children should be
tipping us off that something is up.  Not that I'm worried
that they'll become BDSMers, but because a significant
number cope with drugs, alcohol, etc.


>>         Finally, I do not see infatuation crash as the leading cause
>> of divorce.  I have no statistics to back it up.  Just 9
>> months of working in a domestic relations law firm.
>
>
> What do you see as the leading cause of divorce? I'm not sure it's
> infatuation crash per se, but more to do with the phenomenon I talked
> about earlier -- that the infatuation object is rarely a suitable
> long-term partner. Does anybody think that Romeo and Juliet would
> have settled down to a comfortable middle age with lots of grandkids?


        Differing rates of maturity, to be honest. Most couples I saw
were divorcing because one partner had left behind a certain
lifestyle (such as partying) while the other hadn't, or one
partner decided to get an education.  They were well suited
to each other at the time of infatuation, but went in
different directions.  I think that's hard to predict.
Another reason I saw is that they just weren't "in-love"
with each other anymore -- either they never progressed
beyond infautation or they thought that mature love meant
they were out of love.  These were the easiest and saddest
divorces.

        I suspect my thoughts are still incomplete on this, but it's
time to go off and work with all my ADHD students :).

        I'll be asking my freshmen that very question about Romeo and
Juliet next week or so.  I'll let you know what they say.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 06:04:35 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 06:03:15 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty wrote:

> Natalie, why did you buy a too big house?

Because I couldn't find a desirable smaller one during the years I was
looking.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 06:04:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> <<
> I see nothing wrong with the one I bought at Wmart for $48.
>
> >>
>
> What brand?

I don't remember.  Lemme go look.
...
Apex.  (If I had a smaller house, it wouldn't have taken me as long to
do that research.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 06:07:53 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> I didn't hear anything about
> this on the list and was surprised to see the report.

Yes, you did.  I asked Bethany whether her investment club had invested
in duct tape.

> Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?

All I know is what I've read in the news.  Some gov't entity issued a
notice several days ago suggesting that people stock up on water, food,
duct tape, and other stuff that I can't remember.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:25:47 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>> I don't understand that. What about small spaces do you like so much?
>
>I don't know exactly what it is.  Coziness?  Having everything I need
>close to me at all times?  There are also practical values like cost of

And I love space. An ideal dwelling, I think, would be a secularized
Cathedral. I keep my eye on former church buildings that come up for sale.

(The Episcopal Church uses a Declaration of Secularization during the
Secularization of a Consecrated Building. I have been present for one such
service, in FL.)

Bethany

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:00:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 2:57:40 AM, you wrote:
> I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding
> grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an
> imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.
> How widespread is this? Are you guys all stocked up on
> water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about
> this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
> Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?

We're at Yellow Alert, the stage below Red Alert. Everyone is
advised to have at least three days, I think, of food and water.
Also tarps and duct tape. I haven't been following this closely
(obviously, I guess). The grocery store was crowded yesterday,
but someone I talked to suggested it was because of the bad
weather we're supposed to have today and tomorrow. Dunno.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 07:03:26 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:02:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 5:10:27 AM, you wrote:
> Not to mention Amor and Psyche - which is classified as the
> same in the Aarne/Thompson index, I believe.

THANK YOU! I could not remember this name. I love that index,
it's so... bizarre.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:26:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 6:04:49 AM, you wrote:
> Apex.  (If I had a smaller house, it wouldn't have taken me as long to
> do that research.)

Or if you had your house arranged more conveniently...

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 07:51:13 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:50:05 EST
From: "Judith E. Schrier" <PRIMATE@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU>
Subject: Wonderful words!
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Experimental realization of freely propagating teleported qubits
JIAN-WEI PAN, SARA GASPARONI, MARKUS ASPELMEYER, THOMAS JENNEWEIN &
ANTON ZEILINGER
http://www.nature.com/nlink/v421/n6924/abs/nature01412_fs.html

love, judith

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 07:52:53 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:51:38 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 6:02:53 AM, you wrote:
>         I'll be asking my freshmen that very question about Romeo and
> Juliet next week or so.  I'll let you know what they say.

Someone in the RNF had the critical edition of "White Noise", and
one of the questions was about whether the family in the book was
a normal family or not. We decided it most closely resembled the
Brady Bunch.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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At 04:46 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 1:34:55 PM, you wrote:
> > Carlotta's (yes Karen I named my car)
>
>Envision me gagging.

Envision me flipping you off with a smirk on my face.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 07:59:47 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 07:58:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 7:53:25 AM, you wrote:

> At 04:46 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 1:34:55 PM, you wrote:
>> > Carlotta's (yes Karen I named my car)
>>
>>Envision me gagging.

> Envision me flipping you off with a smirk on my face.

"Typical Boston Driver!"

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:04:42 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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When we sat down, the ex-English teacher asked what people
thought about the book. There was a pregnant pause, and I
mentioned the Words-L Opinion (that he tried too hard), and
everyone started agreeing. Turns out the ex-English teacher loved
the book when it came out, re-read it for this meeting and hated
it for precisely that reason.

The other thing that was interesting is that a lot of people
thought it was dated--but a lot of people, mostly the older
people, couldn't see it.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding
> grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an
> imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.
> How widespread is this?

    Haven't seen any evidence of it in the GMA.  Don't believe
everything you see on TV.

> Are you guys all stocked up on
> water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about
> this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
> Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?

    Most people around here have such things on hand as a matter of
course.  Hell, some have a year's worth!

JMW, in Ant City

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 08:13:11 2003
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 08:57 AM 2/13/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:
>I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding
>grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an
>imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.
>How widespread is this? Are you guys all stocked up on
>water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about
>this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
>Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?

To answer your first question (the subject line)---who knows?  As Karen
noted, we are at yellow alert.  Apparently the Brits also are very
nervous.  It has to do with the end of the Haj, the apparent re-emergence
of Osama (via videotape), etc.  The true believer would conclude that our
counterterrorism forces have latched on to some really good intelligence
that merits the yellow alert and that we'd all better hunker down and
prepare for the worst.  The confirmed cycnic would note that this comes
very conveniently on the heels of the NATO dust-up, the counter-resolution
effort in the UN, the ganging up of the Nobel laureate economists on Bush's
tax-cut plan, and Greenspan offering no support whatsoever.

So as I said---real or diversionary, who knows?  Unfortunately, one of
these times, they are likely to be right, at which point they will jump up
and down, shouting, "Y'see?  y'see?" and presume another mandate for some
other piece of stupidity.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 08:13:12 2003
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At 11:57 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>Who is Zarkon?

No, Who is John Galt?

cwv

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:15:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 8:10:41 AM, you wrote:
> The confirmed cycnic would note that this comes
> very conveniently on the heels of the NATO dust-up, the counter-resolution
> effort in the UN, the ganging up of the Nobel laureate economists on Bush's
> tax-cut plan, and Greenspan offering no support whatsoever.

> So as I said---real or diversionary, who knows?

I don't think it's diversionary, I think it's a deliberate
attempt to whip up public support. People support a war when it's
underway more than they do before it starts.

> Unfortunately, one of
> these times, they are likely to be right, at which point they will jump up
> and down, shouting, "Y'see?  y'see?" and presume another mandate for some
> other piece of stupidity.

Well, yeah.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 08:17:33 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:16:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 8:11:45 AM, you wrote:

> At 11:57 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>>Who is Zarkon?

> No, Who is John Galt?

Ayn Rand, that's all I know.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 08:18:30 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:17:15 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Thinking of you, Lisa!
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One of the characters on "Ed" names her breakups. I thought of
you.:)

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 08:24:45 2003
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At 08:50 AM 2/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Experimental realization of freely propagating teleported qubits
>JIAN-WEI PAN, SARA GASPARONI, MARKUS ASPELMEYER, THOMAS JENNEWEIN &
>ANTON ZEILINGER
>http://www.nature.com/nlink/v421/n6924/abs/nature01412_fs.html
>
>love, judith

...they took the words right out of my mouth...

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 08:36:22 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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At 05:20 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > Every year at tax time I panic over whether or not I've paid my excise tax.
>
>Why do you pay excise tax?  What's it on?
>
> >  Some how I managed to charm her into looking my name up and telling
> > me that I'd paid $275.76 on April 5th of last year.
>
>Wouldn't you have a receipt for that?  Or at least an indication of it
>in your bank statement or check register?
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Well I do have a cancelled check. My problem was, I thought for sure I'd
paid it in the February/March time frame. When I went through my check
books and couldn't find a check written during that time, I panicked. Had I
looked into April I would have seen the check was written and there would
have been a little slash mark next to it indicating it has been cashed.

I could have also gone through my leather filing box and/or brief case and
looked for the receipt but, that was far too cumbersome. Instead I called
the town hall and sweet talked Marge the truck stop diner waitress into
looking it up on her computer for me. The end.

lisa

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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At 07:05 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>
>A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
>right time.
>
>Marie

And she didn't ask him to change. Her love changed him. Of course she was
much, much happier once the charming prince showed up to replace the slimy
toad but that's the second volume of the story. This is the one where she
keeps kissing him, trying to get him to change further. That volume wasn't
such a hit.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:41:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 8:34:12 AM, you wrote:

> At 07:05 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
>>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>>>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>>
>>A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
>>right time.
>>
>>Marie

> And she didn't ask him to change. Her love changed him.

Exactly, "I love, you transform".

> Of course she was much, much happier once the charming prince
> showed up to replace the slimy toad but that's the second
> volume of the story. This is the one where she keeps kissing
> him, trying to get him to change further. That volume wasn't
> such a hit.

Well, if she was willing to kiss a toad, she wasn't all that
smart to begin with.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:58:19 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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= > this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
= > Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?
=
=     Most people around here have such things on hand as a matter of
= course.  Hell, some have a year's worth!
=
= JMW, in Ant City

Mormons!

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:09:20 -0700
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steph wrote:

> Mormons!

    Yea, but you have to say it like Ray Ralston in PYW.

JMW

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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:

> To answer your first question (the subject line)---who knows?  As Karen
> noted, we are at yellow alert.

    Orange.

>   The confirmed cycnic would note that

    we'd been at war for years but didn't realize it until 15 months ago.

JMW

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JMW:

Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding
> grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an
> imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.
> How widespread is this?


>    Haven't seen any evidence of it in the GMA.  Don't believe
everything you see on TV.

Yes. Please. Puh-leez, in fact.

> Are you guys all stocked up on
> water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about
> this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
> Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?


>    Most people around here have such things on hand as a matter of
course.  Hell, some have a year's worth!

Hell, you're damn right about that. Just ask Bradley Dale about it some
time.

And Hell -- the prospects of getting more than a couple of inches of snow
can have a similar effect on many "consumers" in certain areas, thanks to
bleating electric-teevee local "meteorologists," it seems.

A "The Sky is Falling" S

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:17:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I'm really surprised at their pro-war stance. Is anyone else?

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 09:42:09 2003
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> I'm really surprised at their pro-war stance.

Why should we be? .... on an electric-teevee drama?

AS

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 09:49:38 2003
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> So who's going to help me figure out who died?  It's bugging me.

You should just be satisfied with being the person
history will record as having started the notorious
"Cliff Stoll is Dead Internet Rumor of 2003".

--
Richard                      16, 19

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Bar Harbor Question
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At 08:04 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
>At 05:26 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>Does McDonald's in BH serve Lobster McNuggets?
>
>There is no McDonald's on the island.  For that matter, save one small
>Subway franchise in BH, there are no fast-food chains represented on the
>island.  This we see as one of the benefits.
>
>There <are> McDonald's, as well as most other standard ff chains, on the
>mainland in places like Ellsworth and Bucksport; McDonald's in such places
>usually offer lobster rolls.  For the uninitiated, a lobster roll is chunks
>of lobster, usually in some sort of mild mayonnaise, stuffed into a hot-dog
>bun.  Lobster McNuggets, Zarkon be praised, are unknown at present.
>
>cwv

Unless you're from Ct... If you order a lobster roll in Ct. you can expect
it to be chunks of lobster meat soaked in butter and stuffed into a
toasted, buttery hot dog roll. It's divine.

lisa

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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At 08:51 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> > Every year at tax time I panic over whether or not I've paid my
> > excise tax.
> > Every year I call Town Hall and ask them what I paid so I can claim it.
>
>What? How do you claim your car's excise tax? To think these past 10 years I
>haven't....
>
>--Adam
>adamh1@attbi.com

I never claimed it until I did an itemized return. For the record, I do the
itemized return in order to include the one large donation I make a year.

Although now that I think of it.. I don't remember claiming it this year
and I didn't do my taxes myself last year. I do know that in the past I
have been able to claim it.. it was one of the questions Turbo Tax asked me.

lisa

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Hummus in White
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At 07:21 PM 2/12/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>I went out today looking for taramosalata and couldn't find any in
>this neighborhood, not even in the ridiculously pricey and snotty
>gourmet grocery :(
>
>I'll have to do some homework to find out where to get it in Oakland,
>I guess. Ben loves it too, so it's probably worth seeking out --
>although it's basically pure olive oil, phenomenally high in points.
>
>Janet

I love this stuff too.

Is there a Whole Foods near you? I'd imagine they'd have it. I was just at
Bread and Circus yesterday but of course didn't think to look for taramosalata.

There's a decent Greek restaurant in Cambridge which serves it as part of
their appetizer platter. I love ordering this with a group of friends. I'm
the only one who seems to like it. Points be damned, I don't eat it often
so when I do, I enjoy it.

lisa

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At 09:28 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> > I'll trade my apartment for your house. :)
>
>Your apartment is a perfect size for me.
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Speaking of, are you coming to Snow Bash?

lisa

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At 11:16 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>Well, Saturday is my last day at Sears; they still haven't found anyone
>to work evenings, but I decided that I can't wait anymore.
>
>Going to cash in my 401K in order to pay off the credit cards and make
>sure that we have several months' rent in the bank.
>
>I feel sad in some ways:  I'll miss my friends there.
>
>Evelyn Duncan

Yikes! Cashing in a 401(k) to pay off credit cards is only rarely a good idea.

I'm glad you're leaving Sears though, you've never said one good thing
about being their employee.

Best of luck..

lisa

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At 11:33 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>In a message dated 02/12/2003 10:24:49 AM Central Standard Time,
>williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU writes:
>
><<
>Libraries are always
>classic targets for things like this.
>
> >>
>
>And mass transit.  We're losing the bus (135) that takes us to the hospital
>and the mall and the bus (233) that takes us to Wal-Mart.

And they say cuts are spread out evenly among the classes and masses. Uh huh.

lisa

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At 11:46 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 11:34:56 PM, you wrote:
> > at petsmart then?
>
>What cold medicine do they sell for cats?! Little kitty
>decongestants????
>
>Karen,
>Just a tool of love

FYI, Karen, there are vets around here who will provide discounted care
based on your economic status. Well they exist around here anyway.

When I had a dog we went to one such vet. The person I was with at the time
wanted the dog in her name so we could take advantage of the discounted
care. This royally irritated me. I wasn't going to take advantage of a
program that wasn't meant for me. If I could afford my pet, I was going to
pay for my pet.

Oh and I'm not saying you should take the cat to the vet at this point. As
long as she's eating, I think she's relatively OK.

lisa

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 08:57 AM 2/13/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding
>grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an
>imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.
>How widespread is this? Are you guys all stocked up on
>water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about
>this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
>Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?
>
>-Confused in Antwerp

Yes, we're supposed to stock up on supplies, including duct tape. Which is
why Natalie asked Bethany if she had invested in duct tape manufacturers.

What's the duct tape for you might be wondering. Well, it's to be used to
hermetically seal yourself off in a room of your house. This will protect
you from exposure should a dirty bomb be detonated in your general vicinity.

We are all under threat but there seems to be a great risk to, yep you
guessed it DC and NYC.

Am I taking this seriously? Nope. I don't care. If I die, I die. I'm not
going to stop living my life the way I want to.

lisa

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At 08:17 AM 2/13/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>One of the characters on "Ed" names her breakups. I thought of
>you.:)
>
>Karen

Thank you for thinking of me.

In my defense, I've named a lot of things around me but never a break up. I
could come up with some names for them though. :-)

lisa

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At 03:58 PM 2/13/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>= > this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
>= > Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?
>=
>=     Most people around here have such things on hand as a matter of
>= course.  Hell, some have a year's worth!
>=
>= JMW, in Ant City
>
>Mormons!

The Mormon Governor of MA. hasn't suggested to any of his constituents that
they should stock up on goods based on the latest terrorist threat. Then
again he might be too busy, getting rid of the parks department, slashing
local aid and dreaming up ways for more people to find themselves
unemployed and under serviced.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 10:26:31 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:25:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 9:29:36 AM, you wrote:
> FYI, Karen, there are vets around here who will provide discounted care
> based on your economic status. Well they exist around here anyway.

There are here, too. I'm still reluctant to take the cat. I can't
afford medication, so I'm not sure what a doctor could tell me to
do for her. Kitty humidifier?! Actually, it's plenty humid.

> Oh and I'm not saying you should take the cat to the vet at this point. As
> long as she's eating, I think she's relatively OK.

We are both very rheumy this morning, and she's not really eating
much, but she has pretty sucky dry food right now (the cheapest
thing I could find, less than $2/bag). I'll feed her some canned
food later today.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 10:26:57 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:24:32 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Don't take the Zogby poll too seriously as a true measure of sentiment.

There's an article in the February issue of The American Prospect about
Zogby's polling methods. Here's a quote - "Rush Limbaugh bestowed on
Zogby the 'my favorite pollster' mantle, a kind of calling card for use
among political conservatives."

http://www.prospect.org/print/V14/2/mooney-c.html


--
alyce

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:26:44 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
> > > I guess many "insights" come from having really stupid ideas in the
>first
> > > place.
> >
> > Huh? I think that sometimes an insight is the realization that your
>original
> > idea was stupid.
>
>Isn't that what was just said?  If you didn't have the stupid idea, then
>you wouldn't have that particular insight.

Ayeh.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 10:31:23 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:29:57 -0500
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>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>  >From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>>>  >>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>>>
>>>  > A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at
>>>the
>>>  > right time.
>>>
>>>Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!
>>>
>>>Not.
>>
>>Where's the love in the story? I really don't see it.
>
>The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
>humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.

Because HE loves, not because he is loved. This doesn't fit into the stupid
"I love, you transform" idea. That's "I love, I transform" which I think is
a more popular theme in all of these stories.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 10:45:43 2003
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> What's the duct tape for you might be wondering. Well, it's to be used to
> hermetically seal yourself off in a room of your house. This will protect
> you from exposure should a dirty bomb be detonated in your general vicinity.

    The only people buying duct tape and who would actually do this would be the
same ones not considering minor details like breathing, so you could just
consider the whole thing to be an adhesive Darwin Award.

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 10:46:38 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:45:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 10:29:57 AM, you wrote:

>>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>>  >From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>>>>  >>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>>>>
>>>>  > A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at
>>>>the
>>>>  > right time.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!
>>>>
>>>>Not.
>>>
>>>Where's the love in the story? I really don't see it.
>>
>>The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
>>humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.

> Because HE loves, not because he is loved. This doesn't fit into the stupid
> "I love, you transform" idea. That's "I love, I transform" which I think is
> a more popular theme in all of these stories.

I don't think so.

http://www.balletmet.org/Notes/StoryOrigin.html mentions that
"Aarne-Thompson lists 179 tales from different countries with a
similar theme to Beauty and the Beast." I'd love to know what the
theme is. [425A--"The Monster or Animal as Bridegroom"]

Anyway, the author continues with "At one point the
Beauty is separated from her Beast and at that time some ill
befalls him. Beauty’s remorse, sometimes as simple as shedding a
tear and sometimes as onerous a penance as going to the end of
the earth, saves the Beast and his transformation to handsome man
is achieved." It's his transformation, but caused by her.

This one
http://www.encoreplay.com/encoreplay/Play%20pages/Beautybeast.html
also talks about the beast transforming because of the hero's
love.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 10:56:13 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:54:47 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >>A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
> >>right time.
> >>>
> > And she didn't ask him to change. Her love changed him.
>
>Exactly, "I love, you transform".

Bullshit. As the story goes, the princess bitch drops her ball into a pond
where a frog offers to retrieve it IF she allows him to sleep in her bed
with her. She agrees, and then immediately forgets. Later that night there
is a knock at the door and there stands the frog all ready for nighty-night.
She refuses him, but her aunt forces her to keep her promise so she
withstands the night with him -- keeping him isolated to a distant corner of
the bed. In the morning he is transformed to a prince. A curse had been
placed on him which could only be lifted after sleeping in the bed of a
princess. For freeing him of his curse, he offers his hand in marriage.

She despised, he transformed. I think the story is more about the promise
that was kept, however reluctantly, having a positive outcome.

Marie



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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:03:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 10:54:47 AM, you wrote:
>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>> >>A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
>> >>right time.
>> >>>
>> > And she didn't ask him to change. Her love changed him.
>>
>>Exactly, "I love, you transform".

> Bullshit.

Actually, you're right! I misremembered the story.
http://www.gwu.edu/~folktale/GERM232/frogp/Edition_Comparison.html
has several versions. I totally forgot she threw him against the
wall and called him a horrid frog!

> She despised, he transformed. I think the story is more about the promise
> that was kept, however reluctantly, having a positive outcome.

Now, this is interesting:

"The prince and the king's daughter got into the coach, and the
faithful servant sat up behind, full of joy at the prince's
release, and they set off for his realm. And when they had gone
part of the way, the prince heard something crack behind him, as
if something was broken, and he cried:

"Henry, the coach is breaking!"
"No, Lord, not the coach,
It is a hoop about my heart,
Which was in great pain,
When you were in the well,
When you were a frog."

Once again and still again there was a crack on the way, and the
prince thought it was the coach breaking; but it was only the
hoops which fell away from the heart of the faithful Henry,
because his lord was released and happy."

So the love is actually between the prince and his footman!

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 11:51:36 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:50:10 -0500
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>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>Because HE loves, not because he is loved. This doesn't fit into the
>>stupid
>>"I love, you transform" idea. That's "I love, I transform" which I think
>>is
>>a more popular theme in all of these stories.
>
>Beg to differ: if I remember correctly, it is her kiss, given
>voluntarily and sincerely, that breaks the spell. Admittedly, the
>fact that he loves her makes the tale much more potent -- as opposed
>to the Frog Prince, who seems to be mostly in it for spellbreaking
>purposes.

Okay, this one is different. I never really knew this story. However, I
think there is much more going on than "I love, you transform". First of
all, at that point she doesn't care if he transforms or not -- she decides
she loves him just the way he is. And secondly it is because of his own
love, which is now able to fully realize itself, that causes the
transformation. It is still, "I love, I transform." There is nothing selfish
in this story.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 12:09:22 2003
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In a message dated 2/13/2003 9:15:32 AM, alfieri@ATTBI.COM writes:

<< I'm glad you're leaving Sears though, you've never said one good thing
about being their employee.

Best of luck..
 >>

>From me too. Working in a place that doesn't agree with you can't be good.
Theo

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:32:02 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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>I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding
>grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an
>imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.
>How widespread is this? Are you guys all stocked up on
>water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about
>this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
>Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?

Even Joe Paranoia (aka Jay) wasn't stocking up on this one...
although he remarked rather acidly after the post-9/11 rush, "Great
-- at least now we're getting people to do what we've been telling
them to do all along."

At any given time, I have enough food and beverages here to last Ben
& me a week or so. We might run out of luxury items (Coke in his
case, breakfast cereal in mine), but we wouldn't starve. And we have
enough emergency equipment left over from the last 13 years to handle
most disasters.

Janet

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:24:47 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >> >>A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at
>the
> >> >>right time.
> >> >>>
> >> > And she didn't ask him to change. Her love changed him.
> >>
> >>Exactly, "I love, you transform".
>
> > Bullshit.
>
>Actually, you're right!

I know!

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:40:00 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hummus in White
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>At 07:21 PM 2/12/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>I went out today looking for taramosalata and couldn't find any in
>>this neighborhood, not even in the ridiculously pricey and snotty
>>gourmet grocery :(
>>
>>I'll have to do some homework to find out where to get it in Oakland,
>>I guess. Ben loves it too, so it's probably worth seeking out --
>>although it's basically pure olive oil, phenomenally high in points.
>>
>>Janet
>
>I love this stuff too.
>
>Is there a Whole Foods near you? I'd imagine they'd have it. I was just at
>Bread and Circus yesterday but of course didn't think to look for
>taramosalata.

Yes, there is, at Telegraph & Ashby in Berkeley -- I was just driving
by it (yet another emergency run to the vet with Happy ::sigh::).
I'll have to check it out -- thanks for the tip. Come to think of it,
the Berkeley Bowl is another option.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:42:29 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>  >From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>>   >From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>>>>   >>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
>>>>
>>>>   > A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at
>>>>the
>>>>   > right time.
>>>>
>>>>Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!
>>>>
>>>>Not.
>>>
>>>Where's the love in the story? I really don't see it.
>>
>>The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
>>humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.
>
>Because HE loves, not because he is loved. This doesn't fit into the stupid
>"I love, you transform" idea. That's "I love, I transform" which I think is
>a more popular theme in all of these stories.

Beg to differ: if I remember correctly, it is her kiss, given
voluntarily and sincerely, that breaks the spell. Admittedly, the
fact that he loves her makes the tale much more potent -- as opposed
to the Frog Prince, who seems to be mostly in it for spellbreaking
purposes.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:44:03 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
>>  What's the duct tape for you might be wondering. Well, it's to be used to
>>  hermetically seal yourself off in a room of your house. This will protect
>>  you from exposure should a dirty bomb be detonated in your general vicinity.
>
>     The only people buying duct tape and who would actually do this
>would be the
>same ones not considering minor details like breathing, so you could just
>consider the whole thing to be an adhesive Darwin Award.

Also amused by the idea of trying to hermetically seal anything in
this place. Ben's and my rooms are rough wallboard boxes with
noticeable gaps at top, bottom and sides, and the rest of the place
is all one big space. I suppose we could hunker down in the bathroom,
but that hardly bears thinking about.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:50:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 11:38:56 AM, you wrote:
> A little bit, but not very -- the makers of the show are generally
> Jewish and feminist. Remember Josh & Toby's discussion about "If
> America had intervened in the '30s, you and I would have a lot more
> relatives"?

Yes, I do.

And actually, I was less surprised by the end of the show.

> But I was interested that Bartlett's war is "the only invasion in
> history for purely humanitarian reasons" -- heaven forfend we should
> think of it as having to do with oil, or anything like that. Only bad
> presidents fight for those reasons; good presidents fight for truth,
> justice and the American way.

TV presidents, anyway.

I did feel, however, that Bartlett gave more justification for
his war than Shrub. Which is sad.

And I LOVED the Laurel and Hardy stuff. I think Shrub watches
the 3 Stooges.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Hummus in White
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At 10:19 AM 2/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>At 07:21 PM 2/12/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>I went out today looking for taramosalata and couldn't find any in
>>this neighborhood, not even in the ridiculously pricey and snotty
>>gourmet grocery :(
>>
>>I'll have to do some homework to find out where to get it in Oakland,
>>I guess. Ben loves it too, so it's probably worth seeking out --
>>although it's basically pure olive oil, phenomenally high in points.
>>
>>Janet
>
>I love this stuff too.
>
>Is there a Whole Foods near you? I'd imagine they'd have it. I was just at
>Bread and Circus yesterday but of course didn't think to look for
>taramosalata.

Telegraph and Ashby.

Betty

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Hummus in White
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At 09:40 AM 2/13/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>At 07:21 PM 2/12/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>>I went out today looking for taramosalata and couldn't find any in
>>>this neighborhood, not even in the ridiculously pricey and snotty
>>>gourmet grocery :(
>>>
>>>I'll have to do some homework to find out where to get it in Oakland,
>>>I guess. Ben loves it too, so it's probably worth seeking out --
>>>although it's basically pure olive oil, phenomenally high in points.
>>>
>>>Janet
>>
>>I love this stuff too.
>>
>>Is there a Whole Foods near you? I'd imagine they'd have it. I was just at
>>Bread and Circus yesterday but of course didn't think to look for
>>taramosalata.
>
>Yes, there is, at Telegraph & Ashby in Berkeley -- I was just driving
>by it (yet another emergency run to the vet with Happy ::sigh::).
>I'll have to check it out -- thanks for the tip. Come to think of it,
>the Berkeley Bowl is another option.

My favorite.  Best place to buy bulk grains and stuff, too.

Betty

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Subject: Re: West Wing
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I usually watch WW and had intended to last night but I got drawn in by The Perilous
Fight  on PBS (see http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/).  I'm glad I chose the less
violent option.

BrP






> Thursday, February 13, 2003, 11:38:56 AM, you wrote:
> > A little bit, but not very -- the makers of the show are generally
> > Jewish and feminist. Remember Josh & Toby's discussion about "If
> > America had intervened in the '30s, you and I would have a lot more
> > relatives"?
>
> Yes, I do.
>
> And actually, I was less surprised by the end of the show.
>
> > But I was interested that Bartlett's war is "the only invasion in
> > history for purely humanitarian reasons" -- heaven forfend we should
> > think of it as having to do with oil, or anything like that. Only bad
> > presidents fight for those reasons; good presidents fight for truth,
> > justice and the American way.
>
> TV presidents, anyway.
>
> I did feel, however, that Bartlett gave more justification for
> his war than Shrub. Which is sad.
>
> And I LOVED the Laurel and Hardy stuff. I think Shrub watches
> the 3 Stooges.
>
> Karen,
> Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:33:08 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Dip
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>16:50 12.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>>Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 4:09:44 PM, you wrote:
>>>>  You can buy premade taramosalata almost everywhere these days; I
>>>>  don't think you have to go to Maine.
>>
>>>          We don't have a big enough critical mass of Greeks in St.
>>>  Louis to find specialty items.
>>
>>What I was trying to say is that you don't need any Greeks to
>>have it. Austin has horrible Greek food, but you can buy
>>taramosalata in a bunch of different grocery stores.
>
>I have bought quite a lot of not very special taramosalata in Greek
>supermarkeds (in Greece). But I have also seen how people have
>bought taramo (smoked, salted cod roe) for making their own
>taramosalata, especially for the weekend in southern Peloponnese.
>But the best taramosalata I have had was at a small
>restaurant/taverna in the harbour in Pylos (a.k.a. Navarino for
>those interested in naval history) just down from the "Square for
>the four (three?) admirals". The taramosalata was not so blended as
>it often is - it had a tecture more as if it had been made with a
>fork.

The best I've ever had was at a good Greek restaurant in San Pedro,
CA, called "Papadakis" -- it's run by a family that used to go to my
high school. Wonder if it's still there? BookExpo America's in LA
this year... hmmm....

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 12:09:23 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 09:38:56 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: West Wing
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>I'm really surprised at their pro-war stance. Is anyone else?

A little bit, but not very -- the makers of the show are generally
Jewish and feminist. Remember Josh & Toby's discussion about "If
America had intervened in the '30s, you and I would have a lot more
relatives"?

But I was interested that Bartlett's war is "the only invasion in
history for purely humanitarian reasons" -- heaven forfend we should
think of it as having to do with oil, or anything like that. Only bad
presidents fight for those reasons; good presidents fight for truth,
justice and the American way.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:16:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 11:58:01 AM, you wrote:
> I usually watch WW and had intended to last night but I got drawn in by The Perilous
> Fight  on PBS (see http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/).

To click on it: http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/

For some reason, The Bat! parsed the ). as part of the URL and
took me to a blank page.

> I'm glad I chose the less violent option.

No violence yet--that comes next week, I think.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:33:01 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> I don't see anyone paying much attention to it here.
> We always have lots of food in the house and some
> bottled water, altho I can't imagine how you would
> be prepared for water for laundry, toilets, etc.

At last there is something good to be said for being oxygen-tank
dependent. I could breathe with pure O2 for about 36 hours. The
likelihood of my being able to seal up this old house with all its
chinks is rather remote. Also, I find duct tape too difficult to tear,
and the government did not tell me to put scissors in my emergency kit.
I don't think that Germantown is a prime target, although I am midway
between Marie's nuke plant and one farther upstream past Albany.

> I can't imagine how you would
be prepared for water for laundry, toilets, etc.

I imagine that you might let the laundry go for a few days in an
emergency. YOu'd have to have buckets of water for flushing, and it
helps if you have a lot of toilets. I always have a bucket up and one
downstairs for flushing in case of power outages. Ditto bottled drinking
water.

Just saw on CNN how Our Nation's Schools Would Handle Attacks. Kids
would be pulled into the school buildings and all air intake turned off.
Kids would be hugged and the situation would be explained, like, "There
are bad people in the world who want to hurt us, but we love you."

That's it. They left out the suffocating part.

alyce

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:35:31 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:33:01 PM, you wrote:
> Just saw on CNN how Our Nation's Schools Would Handle Attacks. Kids
> would be pulled into the school buildings and all air intake turned off.
> Kids would be hugged and the situation would be explained, like, "There
> are bad people in the world who want to hurt us, but we love you."

> That's it. They left out the suffocating part.

I'm glad I don't have children.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Saturday
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:38:11 -0500
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of lisa alfieri
>Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:22 AM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Saturday
>
>
>At 11:16 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>>Well, Saturday is my last day at Sears; they still haven't
>found anyone
>>to work evenings, but I decided that I can't wait anymore.
>>
>>Going to cash in my 401K in order to pay off the credit cards and make
>>sure that we have several months' rent in the bank.
>>
>>I feel sad in some ways:  I'll miss my friends there.
>>
>>Evelyn Duncan
>
>Yikes! Cashing in a 401(k) to pay off credit cards is only
>rarely a good idea.
>
>I'm glad you're leaving Sears though, you've never said one good thing
>about being their employee.
>
>Best of luck..
>
>lisa
>

I imagine a 30% tax cut would take a nice bite out of the money.



alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 12:44:09 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:36:39 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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At 11:54 AM 2/13/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>> >>A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
>> >>right time.
>> >>>
>> > And she didn't ask him to change. Her love changed him.
>>
>>Exactly, "I love, you transform".
>
>Bullshit. As the story goes, the princess bitch drops her ball into a pond
>where a frog offers to retrieve it IF she allows him to sleep in her bed
>with her. She agrees, and then immediately forgets. Later that night there
>is a knock at the door and there stands the frog all ready for nighty-night.
>She refuses him, but her aunt forces her to keep her promise so she
>withstands the night with him -- keeping him isolated to a distant corner of
>the bed. In the morning he is transformed to a prince. A curse had been
>placed on him which could only be lifted after sleeping in the bed of a
>princess. For freeing him of his curse, he offers his hand in marriage.
>
>She despised, he transformed. I think the story is more about the promise
>that was kept, however reluctantly, having a positive outcome.
>
>Marie

And if he didn't transform she probably would have run him over three times
with her mercedes benz.

lisa

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At 09:42 AM 2/13/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:

>>Because HE loves, not because he is loved. This doesn't fit into the stupid
>>"I love, you transform" idea. That's "I love, I transform" which I think is
>>a more popular theme in all of these stories.
>
>Beg to differ: if I remember correctly, it is her kiss, given
>voluntarily and sincerely, that breaks the spell. Admittedly, the
>fact that he loves her makes the tale much more potent -- as opposed
>to the Frog Prince, who seems to be mostly in it for spellbreaking
>purposes.
>
>Janet

This is the version I was thinking of when I made my comment.

Until Marie told the alternate version, I'd forgotten it existed.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 10:19:51 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>  >From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>>Because HE loves, not because he is loved. This doesn't fit into the
>>>stupid
>>>"I love, you transform" idea. That's "I love, I transform" which I think
>>>is
>>>a more popular theme in all of these stories.
>>
>>Beg to differ: if I remember correctly, it is her kiss, given
>>voluntarily and sincerely, that breaks the spell. Admittedly, the
>>fact that he loves her makes the tale much more potent -- as opposed
>>to the Frog Prince, who seems to be mostly in it for spellbreaking
>>purposes.
>
>Okay, this one is different. I never really knew this story. However, I
>think there is much more going on than "I love, you transform". First of
>all, at that point she doesn't care if he transforms or not -- she decides
>she loves him just the way he is.

Which is, of course, true love, the kind that *can* wreak
transformation (at least in the world of the tale).

>And secondly it is because of his own
>love, which is now able to fully realize itself, that causes the
>transformation.

You must be reading a different version than the one I'm used to.
While he does fall in love with her, that's incidental to his
transformation (or I suppose you could make a case that his love for
her enables her to love him, and thus creates the transformation).

>It is still, "I love, I transform." There is nothing selfish
>in this story.

I agree that there's nothing selfish in it, at least on the surface.
What makes it so potent for certain of us who have the teensiest
little caretaking issues is that her uncritical and unselfish love
"fixes" him and humanizes him.

Janet

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:21:18 -0500
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>Am I taking this seriously? Nope. I don't care. If I die, I die. I'm not
>going to stop living my life the way I want to.

I feel pretty much the same way, which I suppose is its own defense
mechanism -- but I'm happy with it. I live really quite close (<4 miles as
the crow flies, I guess) to Indian Point nuclear power plant, and if I were
to get all wrapped up in the hype over exposures and evacuation plans, I'd
be a mess. I think the plant is safe, provides a lot of jobs to the
community, provides a lot of power to the city of New York, and if I'm not
mistaken it helps keep my property taxes within reason.

My husband rides Metro North and the NYC subway every day into downtown
Manhattan. Can I let this drive me nuts? I refuse.

I THINK there's duct tape in the house somewhere.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 12:55:37 2003
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At 09:46 AM 2/13/2003 -0500, lisa wrote:

>Unless you're from Ct... If you order a lobster roll in Ct. you can expect
>it to be chunks of lobster meat soaked in butter and stuffed into a
>toasted, buttery hot dog roll. It's divine.

Ah, yes---lactose-encrusted cholesterol---hard to beat.

cwv

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:21:59 -0500
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> Thursday, February 13, 2003, 11:58:01 AM, you wrote:
> > I usually watch WW and had intended to last night but I got drawn in by The Perilous
> > Fight  on PBS (see http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/).
>
> To click on it: http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/
>
> For some reason, The Bat! parsed the ). as part of the URL and
> took me to a blank page.



oops - a simple touch of the space bar from me probably would have avoided the
problem for you.


BrP






>
> > I'm glad I chose the less violent option.
>
> No violence yet--that comes next week, I think.
>
> Karen,
> Just a tool of love

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> I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding
> grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an
> imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.
> How widespread is this? Are you guys all stocked up on
> water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about
> this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
> Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?
>
> -Confused in Antwerp
>
I don't see anyone paying much attention to it here.
We always have lots of food in the house and some
bottled water, altho I can't imagine how you would
be prepared for water for laundry, toilets, etc.


                  - D. M.

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: West Wing
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:22:54 -0500
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Don't forget: It's Survivor night!!!!

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:25:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:21:59 PM, you wrote:
>> Thursday, February 13, 2003, 11:58:01 AM, you wrote:
>> > I usually watch WW and had intended to last night but I got drawn in by The Perilous
>> > Fight  on PBS (see http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/).
>>
>> To click on it: http://www.pbs.org/perilousfight/
>>
>> For some reason, The Bat! parsed the ). as part of the URL and
>> took me to a blank page.

> oops - a simple touch of the space bar from me probably would have avoided the
> problem for you.

This isn't what I would a 'problem', ET!

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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O2-Alyce:
> That's it. They left out the suffocating part.

Nothing new.  They always left out the part about
being incinerated after ducking and covering, too.

--
Bert the Turtle                      16, 19

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
> Well, Saturday is my last day at Sears;

Just reading last week's mail. Congratulations. But did you really cash
in your 401K? Won't you have to pay a big penalty?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 12:55:39 2003
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> Coming soon to a Congress near you - The Domestic Security Enancement Act of
> 2003.  This is a long document in pdf - but I think it's worth looking at.
>

They also are revising the Freedom of Information Act, but the new rules
are not available to the public, in case anyone might want to access
anything.

alyce

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Bar Harbor Question
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:44:40 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of clyde w. voigtlander
>Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 1:13 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Bar Harbor Question
>
>
>At 09:46 AM 2/13/2003 -0500, lisa wrote:
>
>>Unless you're from Ct... If you order a lobster roll in Ct.
>you can expect
>>it to be chunks of lobster meat soaked in butter and stuffed into a
>>toasted, buttery hot dog roll. It's divine.
>
>Ah, yes---lactose-encrusted cholesterol---hard to beat.
>
>cwv
>

Take a Lactaid and a Zocor.

alec

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Here are the official instructions for creating your "shelter-in-place."
At the very end, there are reassurances.

http://www.redcross.org/services/disaster/beprepared/shelterinplace.html

alyce

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> The Perilous Fight on PBS

This expression has always rankled me.  Aren't
all fights perilous?

The song is bad enough with the correct line:

http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/treasures/images/uc05112x.jpg

--
F.T. McHenry                   16, 19

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D.M.:
> be prepared for water for laundry, toilets, etc.

During hurricane season, we fill the bathtub for
the latter, and don't care about the former.

--
Stinky the Storm Boy                16, 19

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 09:51 AM 2/13/2003 -0700, John Williams wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > What's the duct tape for you might be wondering. Well, it's to be used to
> > hermetically seal yourself off in a room of your house. This will protect
> > you from exposure should a dirty bomb be detonated in your general
> vicinity.
>
>     The only people buying duct tape and who would actually do this would
> be the
>same ones not considering minor details like breathing, so you could just
>consider the whole thing to be an adhesive Darwin Award.
>
>JMW


The award should go to our government for suggesting it would actually help.

lisa

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Thursday, February 13, 2003 at 9:44, Janet Hardy wrote:

> >>  What's the duct tape for you might be wondering. Well, it's to be used to
> >>  hermetically seal yourself off in a room of your house. This will protect
> >>  you from exposure should a dirty bomb be detonated in your general vicinity.
> >
> >     The only people buying duct tape and who would actually do this
> >would be the
> >same ones not considering minor details like breathing, so you could just
> >consider the whole thing to be an adhesive Darwin Award.
>
> Also amused by the idea of trying to hermetically seal anything in
> this place. Ben's and my rooms are rough wallboard boxes with
> noticeable gaps at top, bottom and sides, and the rest of the place
> is all one big space. I suppose we could hunker down in the bathroom,
> but that hardly bears thinking about.

And unlike the case of chemical attack, a radiological "device" is
going to pretty much leave the area unlivable for a long time. So
it's not clear how you'd get out of your sealed room even if you have
food and drink and such.

Tony H.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 12:57:20 2003
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>Indian Point nuclear power plant

Did you Chosen Few NYarkers get gubmint thyroid pills,
or was that some kind of 11-Sep UL?

You'll prolly get dibs on smallpox shots, too.

--
Whaddya mean it WEARS OFF?               16, 19

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 12:58:11 2003
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> Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:33:01 PM, you wrote:
> > Just saw on CNN how Our Nation's Schools Would Handle Attacks. Kids
> > would be pulled into the school buildings and all air intake turned off.
> > Kids would be hugged and the situation would be explained, like, "There
> > are bad people in the world who want to hurt us, but we love you."
>
> > That's it. They left out the suffocating part.
>
> I'm glad I don't have children.
>
> Karen,
> Just a tool of love


This reminds me of a moment - around the time Tina was first learning to read.  I
had been to a no nukes march in NY and when I came home I had a button that said
"stop nuclear war."  She was, in those days, taking great delight in copying things
she saw in writing - as a way of learning words.  She asked if she could copy the
words from my button and of course I said yes.  As she was carefully drawing the
letters, she said " I know what this word means (pointing to "stop") and I know what
this word means (pointing to "war") but I don't know the word in the middle.  I
pondered about how to explain "nuclear" and finally characterized it as a war that
would involve the whole world.  Her immediate question totally blew me away.
"Does that mean I would die?"

 After swallowing hard to regain my composure, I pointed to the word "stop" and told
her that the reason I, and all those other people, had been to the march was to
make sure that such a thing would never happen.  Just then I got a phone call and
as I was talking, I was vaguely aware that she and a couple of her friends were
doing some drawings on large pieces of paper.  When I got off the phone they had
gone outside and when I looked out the window to see what they were up to, I saw
that they were marching up and down the sidewalk with signs reading "STOP
nuclear war"  In one way or another, she's been marching ever since.


BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:00:00 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:58:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:35:05 PM, you wrote:
[about duct tape]
> The award should go to our government for suggesting it would actually help.

What I heard on NPR yesterday was something about how tarps and
duct tape were all sold out after the WTC bombings, and used for
all sorts of things, so *that* is why they were recommending
people stock up. Nothing about duck and cover.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:03:28 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:02:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:50:07 PM, you wrote:
> Here are the official instructions for creating your "shelter-in-place."
> At the very end, there are reassurances.

This is essentially what Iraelis did during the Gulf War.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:06:05 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:04:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:56:30 PM, you wrote:

>> Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:33:01 PM, you wrote:
>> > Just saw on CNN how Our Nation's Schools Would Handle Attacks. Kids
>> > would be pulled into the school buildings and all air intake turned off.
>> > Kids would be hugged and the situation would be explained, like, "There
>> > are bad people in the world who want to hurt us, but we love you."
>>
>> > That's it. They left out the suffocating part.
>>
>> I'm glad I don't have children.
>>
>> Karen,
>> Just a tool of love


> This reminds me of a moment - around the time Tina was first learning to read.  I
> had been to a no nukes march in NY and when I came home I had a button that said
> "stop nuclear war."  She was, in those days, taking great delight in copying things
> she saw in writing - as a way of learning words.  She asked if she could copy the
> words from my button and of course I said yes.  As she was carefully drawing the
> letters, she said " I know what this word means (pointing to "stop") and I know what
> this word means (pointing to "war") but I don't know the word in the middle.  I
> pondered about how to explain "nuclear" and finally characterized it as a war that
> would involve the whole world.  Her immediate question totally blew me away.
> "Does that mean I would die?"

At such a young age, how did she know that people die?

(I loved this story very much. Thank you.)

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:07:48 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:03:31 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" wrote:
>
> >Indian Point nuclear power plant
>
> Did you Chosen Few NYarkers get gubmint thyroid pills,
> or was that some kind of 11-Sep UL?

Marie got pills. But I didn't, and I am only 40-50 miles from her. I'll
pass on the smallpox, thanks.

alyce

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:06:13 -0500
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Subject: Re: red cross says you won't suffocate
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They forgot the traditional last two steps:

1) Sit comfortably in a chair and put you head between your knees
2) Kiss your ass goodbye

BrP





> Here are the official instructions for creating your "shelter-in-place."
> At the very end, there are reassurances.
>
> http://www.redcross.org/services/disaster/beprepared/shelterinplace.html
>
> alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:08:36 2003
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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 09:44 AM 2/13/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:

>Also amused by the idea of trying to hermetically seal anything in
>this place. Ben's and my rooms are rough wallboard boxes with
>noticeable gaps at top, bottom and sides, and the rest of the place
>is all one big space. I suppose we could hunker down in the bathroom,
>but that hardly bears thinking about.
>
>Janet

Same goes for me. My apartment hold heat like a sieve. Some of the windows
are so bad they're actually coming off the house. I have shrink wrap on the
ones in the kitchen and bedroom but it's only moderately helpful.

lisa

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Bar Harbor Question
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At 01:13 PM 2/13/2003 -0500, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
>At 09:46 AM 2/13/2003 -0500, lisa wrote:
>
>>Unless you're from Ct... If you order a lobster roll in Ct. you can expect
>>it to be chunks of lobster meat soaked in butter and stuffed into a
>>toasted, buttery hot dog roll. It's divine.
>
>Ah, yes---lactose-encrusted cholesterol---hard to beat.
>
>cwv

And mayonnaise is better how?

lisa

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Saturday
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At 01:38 PM 2/13/2003 -0500, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: English Language Discussion Group
> >[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of lisa alfieri
> >Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 10:22 AM
> >To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Re: Saturday
> >
> >
> >At 11:16 PM 2/12/2003 -0500, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> >>Well, Saturday is my last day at Sears; they still haven't
> >found anyone
> >>to work evenings, but I decided that I can't wait anymore.
> >>
> >>Going to cash in my 401K in order to pay off the credit cards and make
> >>sure that we have several months' rent in the bank.
> >>
> >>I feel sad in some ways:  I'll miss my friends there.
> >>
> >>Evelyn Duncan
> >
> >Yikes! Cashing in a 401(k) to pay off credit cards is only
> >rarely a good idea.
> >
> >I'm glad you're leaving Sears though, you've never said one good thing
> >about being their employee.
> >
> >Best of luck..
> >
> >lisa
> >
>
>I imagine a 30% tax cut would take a nice bite out of the money.
>
>
>
>alec

Yeah.. it's pretty brutal. I wouldn't touch any of mine unless I were under
extreme duress.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:12:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 1:01:31 PM, you wrote:
> Yeah.. it's pretty brutal. I wouldn't touch any of mine unless I were under
> extreme duress.

I just cashed in my last one in December.

I remember bringing these issues up with Evelyn before, and she
said it was worth it to her to be rid of credit card debt.

It's not like there's any guarantee that her 401(k) would
increase in value.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:14:00 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 11:14:03 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>  > Addiction to infatuation is certainly pathological, but I don't see
>  > infatuation as pathological in and of itself -- just useless.
>
>         Well, it worked for me!

I'm glad! -- although, up to about five years ago, I'd have said the same :/

>  >>         In addition, I would not be in the least bit surprised that
>>>  people who enjoy the rush of S&M activities (the circle in
>>>  which you appear to travel most) would also be very into the
>>>  rush of infatuation, both being biochemical in nature.  I
>>>  contend that the rush is not necessarily destructive or
>>>  constructive.  Perhaps biochemical rushes are not unlike
>>>  alcohol -- some can enjoy them in moderation while others
>>>  cannot.
>>
>>
>>  Actually, I've wondered about that too. If I were a research type,
>>  I'd *love* to do some studies on dopamine and serotonin levels among
>>  BDSMers -- I suspect the results would be interesting. (There were
>>  those dopamine studies about risk-taking behaviors a couple of years
>>  back; I believe we discussed them here.) A possibly related issue: I
>>  believe that the rates of ADHD among BDSMers is way above the
>>  statistical norm; we use BDSM as a source of focus and a calming
>  > mechanism.
>
>         I'm not sure everyone who thinks they have ADHD actually has
>it -- there are a host of other disorders that mimic some
>aspects of true ADHD, but many people get to that point and
>stop investigating.

True. Or some just assume that whatever they have is ADHD without
bothering to be clinically assessed -- a strategy which I myself have
used, since whether I do or don't I seem to be adapting to it
adequately well. (I've seen some interesting speculations that it's
not a "disorder" at all, but simply a different means of thought and
focus which is less well adapted to life in the school and the
workplace, which makes a certain amount of sense to me.)

>I think BDSMers may have hyposensory
>issues in which it just takes a lot of stimulation to feel
>good.  A whack that a normal person finds painful and
>unpleasant may feel just right to somebody with
>hyposensitivity -- and that is very calming.

I've never seen any evidence, nor do I believe, that a whack feels
any different to a perv than to a vanilla. What makes the difference
is what we do with the sensation.

Some of you probably saw the recent study that attempted to determine
how pain was perceived in the absence of accompanying emotions
(anger, fear, etc.) -- I can't remember whether I talked about it
here. The design of the study was that study subjects were given a
metal rod to hold, which could be heated to warm but not painful, or
all the way up to painful, and told to drop the rod whenever it got
to be too much. Brain scans were being run on these subjects during
the experiment. While the pain centers of the brain lit up, of
course, so did the reward centers -- and there was no evidence that
these subjects were any more or less kinky than the general public.

Pain processing techniques can be learned -- they're taught in yoga,
Lamaze and martial arts, to name a few places. And these disciplines
all have in common that they're done in an atmosphere where fear and
anger have been minimized or eliminated. But a vanilla person who has
no particular athletic or childbearing goal, and who is not ill or
injured, has no motivation to practice these techniques. A perv,
whose fantasies may include pain, *does* have such a motivation, a
strong one. So s/he sets up a situation in which anger and fear are
minimized, and learns ways to relax into the sensation instead of
fighting it, and finds pleasure in it.

>I agree that
>this would be an interesting study and would tell us a lot
>about what kinds of misbehavior in children should be
>tipping us off that something is up.  Not that I'm worried
>that they'll become BDSMers, but because a significant
>number cope with drugs, alcohol, etc.

True -- and I'd guess a fair number of cutters as well. (The recent
movie "Secretary" portrays a woman who is able to drop her
self-mutilation when she discovers BDSM. The PC stance is that it's
inappropriate to portray BDSMers as mentally ill, but the fact is I
*do* know such people in the scene -- and a movie about two entirely
sane healthy people who negotiate a scene and then do it lacks that
certain dramatic tension <g>.)

>  >>         Finally, I do not see infatuation crash as the leading cause
>>>  of divorce.  I have no statistics to back it up.  Just 9
>  >> months of working in a domestic relations law firm.
>>
>  > What do you see as the leading cause of divorce? I'm not sure it's
>>  infatuation crash per se, but more to do with the phenomenon I talked
>>  about earlier -- that the infatuation object is rarely a suitable
>>  long-term partner. Does anybody think that Romeo and Juliet would
>  > have settled down to a comfortable middle age with lots of grandkids?
>
>         Differing rates of maturity, to be honest. Most couples I saw
>were divorcing because one partner had left behind a certain
>lifestyle (such as partying) while the other hadn't, or one
>partner decided to get an education.  They were well suited
>to each other at the time of infatuation, but went in
>different directions.  I think that's hard to predict.

True. Or one partner has more materialistic values than the other and
there are money conflicts. Etc., etc.

>Another reason I saw is that they just weren't "in-love"
>with each other anymore -- either they never progressed
>beyond infautation or they thought that mature love meant
>they were out of love.  These were the easiest and saddest
>divorces.

Or infatuation never did evolve into anything else, and faded on its
own -- which is what I was talking about above. Mature love can also
get so fucking mature that it evolves into a sort of complacent
roommatehood, which can be nice at times but tends to wear thin after
a while.

>         I suspect my thoughts are still incomplete on this, but it's
>time to go off and work with all my ADHD students :).
>
>         I'll be asking my freshmen that very question about Romeo and
>Juliet next week or so.  I'll let you know what they say.

I'll be curious to hear.

Janet

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Bar Harbor Question
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At 01:44 PM 2/13/2003 -0500, alec wrote:

>Take a Lactaid and a Zocor.

I'm on the one and trying to stay off the other.

cwv

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Subject: Re: Bar Harbor Question
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At 01:49 PM 2/13/2003 -0500, lisa wrote:

>And mayonnaise is better how?

No lactose, less cholesterol.

cwv

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Bar Harbor Question
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:17:04 -0500
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>From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@ATTBI.COM>
>>>it to be chunks of lobster meat soaked in butter and stuffed into a
>>>toasted, buttery hot dog roll. It's divine.
>>
>>Ah, yes---lactose-encrusted cholesterol---hard to beat.
>
>And mayonnaise is better how?

I believe he was being sincere.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:21:59 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:20:27 -0500
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>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
> > >Indian Point nuclear power plant
> >
> > Did you Chosen Few NYarkers get gubmint thyroid pills,
> > or was that some kind of 11-Sep UL?
>
>Marie got pills. But I didn't, and I am only 40-50 miles from her. I'll
>pass on the smallpox, thanks.

Yep. However, I ought to have my potassium iodide ("K.I.") pills in my bag
here rather than in my nightstand.

Going to pick them up at the high school, we hummed the Simpsons tune.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:23:18 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:
>  Nothing about duck and cover.

No, Karen. No one said that duck and cover was advised. A few of us
simply have mentioned it as an earlier government idiocy.

The advice to get tape and plastic sheeting was in an official
government release (Fox News: Federal officials have recommended that
Americans take basic disaster-preparation steps...They also recommend
obtaining duct tape and plastic sheeting to seal a house in a chemical
or biological attack) and I don't think NPR has it right. Tarps and
plastic sheeting are entirely different things.

alyce

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:24:31 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 1:13:55 PM, you wrote:
> The advice to get tape and plastic sheeting was in an official
> government release (Fox News: Federal officials have recommended that
> Americans take basic disaster-preparation steps...They also recommend
> obtaining duct tape and plastic sheeting to seal a house in a chemical
> or biological attack) and I don't think NPR has it right. Tarps and
> plastic sheeting are entirely different things.

Maybe they had it right and I had it wrong.

They may be different, but they are often in the same section of
the store.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:27:12 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:20:02 -0500
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For a long time I have had a google short-cut icon on my toolbar. While
it is still there, suddenly it will not work. It is dead. I
right-clicked and hit create shortcut, which brings up another icon onto
the toolbar, but it does not work either. This is damned inconvenient.
Any ideas?
I have a google icon on my desktop, and it will not drag down either.

alyce
--

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:33:20 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:32:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 1:20:02 PM, you wrote:
> For a long time I have had a google short-cut icon on my toolbar. While
> it is still there, suddenly it will not work. It is dead. I
> right-clicked and hit create shortcut, which brings up another icon onto
> the toolbar, but it does not work either. This is damned inconvenient.
> Any ideas?
> I have a google icon on my desktop, and it will not drag down either.

I didn't think you could drag it from the desktop to the toolbar.

In any case, I'd go to Bookmarks and then Personal Toolbar, and
see if I can click on any of the items there, including Google.
If you can't, then go to Bookmarks -> Manage Bookmarks, and
delete the current Google link and remake it.

If that doesn't work, I dunno.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:37:24 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:35:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> They may be different, but they are often in the same section of
> the store.

And so? Hammers and screwdrivers are in the same section of a store too,
but hardly serve the same purpose.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 13:41:17 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:39:59 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 1:35:42 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> They may be different, but they are often in the same section of
>> the store.

> And so? Hammers and screwdrivers are in the same section of a store too,
> but hardly serve the same purpose.

I would argue that the purpose is often the same, but that the
methods are different.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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>
> And so? Hammers and screwdrivers are in the same section of a store too,
> but hardly serve the same purpose.
>
> alyce

Ha!  You've never seen me work


BrP

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At 02:17 PM 2/13/2003 -0500, marie wrote:

>I believe he was being sincere.

Well, semi-sincere.  I like lobster, but lobster rolls probably are my
least favorite form of eating it.  Butter is OK, but I limit my intake.

cwv

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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In a message dated 2/13/2003 11:18:25 AM, dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM writes:

<<  I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding

> grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an

> imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.

> How widespread is this? Are you guys all stocked up on

> water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about

> this on the list and was surprised to see the report.

> Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?

>

> -Confused in Antwerp

 >>

You're the first one who advised me of this condition, because I hardly ever
watch TV.
I better get in touch with my dau quickly, because she has us scheduled for
our weekly shopping trip on Saturday. My fridge is virtually empty, and I
have just a few items in the freezer that would not require lots of
preparation. Having been through WWII has taught me that I'm not prepared for
another war because most likely gas (heat) electricity (lights, cooking)
would also disappear.
I am, however not worried. If our government has any sense left, it would
veto the prez declaring a war. I'm just an ignurrent furrener, but isn't
there something like that in our constitution? It would be a completely
asinine act IMO.
I can also understand European countries not willing to support us. For a big
country to attack a much smaller one, wouldn't seem fair to them. They also
know what war means, as they have experienced it in the past, where as the US
has never been involved in one in a true sense. Let's face it, neither Korea
nor Vietnam has ever attacked us in return, and the war between the states is
just history, and none of us has ever suffered from it. I've watched the news
on TV a few times, but haven't seen anything mentioned about this war
preparation on the local news. Are they saving Idaho from the fear of it?
Just wondering Theo

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>

    Survival supplies in Snotsdale:


>    Brian Houser, manager of the Home Depot in north Scottsdale, said duct tape,
>    plastic and tarps were big sellers Wednesday. Duct tape also flew off the shelves
>    at the Scottsdale Costco, according to Manager Tony Facemire. The store also
>    saw a 20 percent jump in bottled water sales.
>
>    But the biggest run was on Bordeaux wine, following news of possible sanctions
>    against France. It took only 15 minutes for the store to sell 288 bottles of
>    Bordeaux, ranging from $40 to $150.
>

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At least somebody still has their proirities in the right order.

BrP






>
>     Survival supplies in Snotsdale:
>
>
> >    Brian Houser, manager of the Home Depot in north Scottsdale, said duct tape,
> >    plastic and tarps were big sellers Wednesday. Duct tape also flew off the shelves
> >    at the Scottsdale Costco, according to Manager Tony Facemire. The store also
> >    saw a 20 percent jump in bottled water sales.
> >
> >    But the biggest run was on Bordeaux wine, following news of possible sanctions
> >    against France. It took only 15 minutes for the store to sell 288 bottles of
> >    Bordeaux, ranging from $40 to $150.
> >

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:46:32 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> In any case, I'd go to Bookmarks and then Personal Toolbar, and
> see if I can click on any of the items there, including Google.
> If you can't, then go to Bookmarks -> Manage Bookmarks, and
> delete the current Google link and remake it.
>
> If that doesn't work, I dunno.

Oh, I have Google in Bookmarks. But I want a little icon. I don't want
to have to go to bookmarks to get to Google. I think I don't understand
you. Or vice versa. Somehow I dragged the little icon into my toolbar
once. But how?

alyce

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After reading this message and some others on 6 Feb I couldn't answer them any
more and since then I've hardly read any.

Peter Kaminski wrote:

> > > And cross your fingers -- our first paying customer may be in Warsaw, and
> > > they'll need some work on-site...

> Road trip!  Ross and/or I and others from our little company may get to fly
> to Warsaw.  (Ross' wife might even be able to tag along to Franfurt, then
> divert to Estonia to visit family and friends.)
>
> And I really love travelling and seeing new places.

I hope they'll need you working there. Travelling with the aim to work at a place
may often be more enjoyable than just travelling, isn't it?

Kristin

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I would argue that the purpose is often the same, but that the
> methods are different.

A fairly stupid argument. It is not easy to insert a screw with a hammer
unless you don't mean for it to hold. It is also difficult to hammer in
a nail with a screwdriver. But, whatever.

alyce

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From: "RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" <rjscheid@nadal.loyno.edu>
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Tay-OH!:
> isn't there something like that in our constitution?

Close; you have it a little backward.  Only Congress has
the power to declare war.  There are, however, various
mechanisms that enable a President to conduct what
amounts to a war without an official declaration.

--
Richard                      16, 19

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:56:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Theodora Groothof wrote:

>country to attack a much smaller one, wouldn't seem fair to them. They also
>know what war means, as they have experienced it in the past, where as the US
>has never been involved in one in a true sense. Let's face it, neither Korea

That's NOT quite accurate.

Bethany

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Alyce:
> I'll pass on the smallpox, thanks.

Well, <AOL>me too!</AOL>

That's why I want a(nother) vaccination.

Until then, I'm on the lookout for a milkmaid
to exchange body fluids with.

--
Richard                      16, 19

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In a message dated 2/13/2003 12:59:35 PM, rjscheid@NADAL.LOYNO.EDU writes:

<< Close; you have it a little backward.  Only Congress has
the power to declare war.  There are, however, various
mechanisms that enable a President to conduct what
amounts to a war without an official declaration.
 >>

Oops, I'm sorry, but isn't there any way that WE (the people) can stop this
asinine notion? Starting a war without officially declaring one, can't be
fair, can it?
Theo

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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That's interesting. Friends of mine have a wine tasting party every year and
this year (March 1) it's a Bordeaux tasting. I hope I can get some. I
actually was already wondering if there was (or could even be) such thing as
a California Bordeaux. My husband is truly against buying French products,
due to the country's antisemitic tendencies.

Anyway, this party is quite fun. First off, my friend Judy is a truly
fantastic cook, so the food always rocks and goes really well with the wine.
Everyone brings a bottle of the chosen type -- last year was zin, the year
before any Italian red, etc. -- in a paper bag concealing what it is. Bags
are numbered and bottles uncorked and allowed to breathe. Drinkers are given
a "scorecard" on which to judge the wines, make notes, guess at what it is,
etc. one by one. At the end all is revealed. It is fun, and it's interesting
to see what the favorites are. It's a good way to discover new wines. How
Scarsdale is that?

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com





>From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU>
>Reply-To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Is this for real?
>Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:53:52 -0500
>
>At least somebody still has their proirities in the right order.
>
>BrP
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >
> >     Survival supplies in Snotsdale:
> >
> >
> > >    Brian Houser, manager of the Home Depot in north Scottsdale, said
>duct tape,
> > >    plastic and tarps were big sellers Wednesday. Duct tape also flew
>off the shelves
> > >    at the Scottsdale Costco, according to Manager Tony Facemire. The
>store also
> > >    saw a 20 percent jump in bottled water sales.
> > >
> > >    But the biggest run was on Bordeaux wine, following news of
>possible sanctions
> > >    against France. It took only 15 minutes for the store to sell 288
>bottles of
> > >    Bordeaux, ranging from $40 to $150.
> > >


_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 14:16:33 2003
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In a message dated 2/13/2003 1:07:09 PM, dumasb@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU writes:

<< That's NOT quite accurate.

Bethany

 >>

What isn't? That I have not experienced war, or that Korea or Vietnam haven't
attacked us? Please explain, Theo

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:15:13 +0200
From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@akad.ee>
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>  Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:

>  I would be likely in
> > casual conversation to say "a whole nother thing."  I'm not necessarily
> > recommending it for Kristin, though.  It's one of those things native
> > speakers can do that somebody might wonder about from a non-native
> > speaker.

Tushar:

> These "somebody"s are idiots. Idiots will instinctively ascribe
> play with language to a mistake if at all reasonable ...

It has been often said or written, e.g. in novels or stories here and there
that nobody speaks a language more exactly grammatically than a foreigner,
that one may identify sb. as a foreigner if s/he speaks, so to say, too
correctly.

When I hear a foreigner speaking Estonian here (and there are much people
from European countries who have quickly learned Estonian, and speak rather
well, -- just an opposite to a legion of people having come from Russia
either 50-60 years ago, or later, or having born here, who still cannot speak
it), so if such a nice foreigner uses some colloquial expression, it is often
fine to hear. Let him/her speak as s/he wants. But sometimes it seems to me
that that particular colloquial or slang expression is the only one s/he
knows for expressing his/her idea. And s/he keeps uttering it, and that makes
me regret why nobody hasn't taught him or her a neutral expression for the
same idea. -- These have sometimes been instances when I myself cannot help
the speaker -- either conversations overheard, or a person introducing a
product of a company in a store.

So, what I want to say, is that I guess, one may use all kinds of expressions
if s/he feels their style. If I used "a whole nother thing" I'd carefully
choose where and when. If I'd use it here in this list, I guess, it'd be
fine, besides, it'd be just trying how it sounds -- playing with language. In
a formal conversation... well it'd be a whole nother thing 8-).

Kristin

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 14:21:42 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:20:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 1:46:32 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> In any case, I'd go to Bookmarks and then Personal Toolbar, and
>> see if I can click on any of the items there, including Google.
>> If you can't, then go to Bookmarks -> Manage Bookmarks, and
>> delete the current Google link and remake it.
>>
>> If that doesn't work, I dunno.

> Oh, I have Google in Bookmarks.  But I want a little icon.

Jeeze, no one follows directions.

The Personal Toolbar bookmarks are the 'litle icon ones'.

> I don't want to have to go to bookmarks to get to Google.

You probably won't have to. I just want to see if this alternate
method works.

> Somehow I dragged the little icon into my toolbar
> once. But how?

Using the mouse. That's how I did mine.

Before I did anything else, I think I'd reboot. Sometimes with
Netscape just killing the process isn't enough.

So those are the 4 steps:

1) Reboot and then restart Netscape.
2) Check to see if you can get to Google through the actual toolbar or
through the Personal Toolbar menu.
3) If not, delete Google from the Personal Toolbar menu using
Manage Bookmarks.
4) Go to Google and drag the icon to the Personal Toolbar.

Or not. Whatever.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:21:36 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 1:48:40 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I would argue that the purpose is often the same, but that the
>> methods are different.

> A fairly stupid argument. It is not easy to insert a screw with a hammer
> unless you don't mean for it to hold. It is also difficult to hammer in
> a nail with a screwdriver. But, whatever.

It depends on how you define the purpose.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:27:29 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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02003-02-13 | lisa alfieri <alfieri@ATTBI.COM> writes:
> And she didn't ask him to change. Her love changed him. Of course she was
> much, much happier once the charming prince showed up to replace the slimy
> toad but that's the second volume of the story. This is the one where she
> keeps kissing him, trying to get him to change further. That volume wasn't
> such a hit.        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sounds pretty selfish ...

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:18:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Theodora Groothof wrote:

>In a message dated 2/13/2003 1:07:09 PM, dumasb@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU writes:
>
><< That's NOT quite accurate.
>
>Bethany
>
> >>
>
>What isn't? That I have not experienced war, or that Korea or Vietnam haven't
>attacked us? Please explain, Theo

Don't play games. Read the whole message. There was only one complete
sentence in the passage of yours that I referenced.

Bethany

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-13 | Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> >From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
> >> >From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >>> >>What is the story of the Frog Prince but "I love, you transform"?
> >>>
> >>> > A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right
> >>> > place at the right time.
> >>>
> >>>Yes, that's why it's such a popular story!
> >>>
> >>>Not.
> >>
> >>Where's the love in the story? I really don't see it.
> >
> >The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
> >humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.
>
> Because HE loves, not because he is loved.

Good luck communicating this astonishingly complex idea ...

> This doesn't fit into the stupid "I love, you transform" idea. That's "I
> love, I transform" which I think is a more popular theme in all of these
> stories.

I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
"I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
adaptations...

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 12:50 PM 2/13/2003 -0700, you wrote:
> >
>
>     Survival supplies in Snotsdale:
>
>
> >    Brian Houser, manager of the Home Depot in north Scottsdale, said
> duct tape,
> >    plastic and tarps were big sellers Wednesday. Duct tape also flew
> off the shelves
> >    at the Scottsdale Costco, according to Manager Tony Facemire. The
> store also
> >    saw a 20 percent jump in bottled water sales.
> >
> >    But the biggest run was on Bordeaux wine, following news of possible
> sanctions
> >    against France. It took only 15 minutes for the store to sell 288
> bottles of
> >    Bordeaux, ranging from $40 to $150.
> >

Ah, decent priorities.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 14:34:00 2003
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> I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
> "I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
> adaptations...

are you sure you're not gay?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 14:35:34 2003
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> > >    against France. It took only 15 minutes for the store to sell 288
> > bottles of
> > >    Bordeaux, ranging from $40 to $150.
> > >
>
> Ah, decent priorities.
>
> Betty

clone!

BrP
aka
ET

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-13 | "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> writes:
> > I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
> > "I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
> > adaptations...
>
> are you sure you're not gay?

Is anyone?

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:35:18 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Is this for real?
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 2:18:06 PM, you wrote:

> On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Theodora Groothof wrote:

>>In a message dated 2/13/2003 1:07:09 PM, dumasb@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU writes:
>>
>><< That's NOT quite accurate.
>>
>>Bethany
>>
>> >>
>>
>>What isn't? That I have not experienced war, or that Korea or Vietnam haven't
>>attacked us? Please explain, Theo

> Don't play games. Read the whole message. There was only one complete
> sentence in the passage of yours that I referenced.

"And I don't feel like I need to remind you what it is, even if
you are an iggnurant furriner."

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:36:09 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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02003-02-13 | Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> >From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >>>A story of a selfish bitch who happened to be in the right place at the
> >>>right time.
> >>>>
> >> And she didn't ask him to change. Her love changed him.
> >
> >Exactly, "I love, you transform".
>
> Bullshit. As the story goes, the princess bitch drops her ball into a pond
> where a frog offers to retrieve it IF she allows him to sleep in her bed
> with her. She agrees, and then immediately forgets. Later that night there
> is a knock at the door and there stands the frog all ready for nighty-night.
> She refuses him, but her aunt forces her to keep her promise so she
> withstands the night with him -- keeping him isolated to a distant corner of
> the bed. In the morning he is transformed to a prince. A curse had been
> placed on him which could only be lifted after sleeping in the bed of a
> princess. For freeing him of his curse, he offers his hand in marriage.
>
> She despised, he transformed. I think the story is more about the promise
> that was kept, however reluctantly, having a positive outcome.

And the crowning glory of all--he was not transformed, he was
UNtransformed. Har har har ...

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:36:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 2:34:36 PM, you wrote:

> 02003-02-13 | "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> writes:
>> > I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
>> > "I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
>> > adaptations...
>>
>> are you sure you're not gay?

> Is anyone?

Me.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 14:40:01 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 12:40:08 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>  > >The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
>  > >humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.
>  >
>I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
>"I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
>adaptations...

I've fallen for the basic story in about a million different
iterations, ranging from my old Grimm's Fairy Tales book circa 1962
to the Disney version to "The Beautician and the Beast" (I'm probably
one of about eight people who saw that and two people who will admit
to having done so) to the most recent one, "Two Weeks' Notice." It's
not the specific fairy tale that matters, it's the story.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:34:51 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
I've watched the news
> on TV a few times, but haven't seen anything mentioned about this war
> preparation on the local news.

You might try watching the national news, Theo. This is incredible--we
are on the brink of war for weeks now and you know nothing of it?
Sheesh!

alyce

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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> Oops, I'm sorry, but isn't there any way that WE (the people) can stop this
> asinine notion?

First, Theo, you must watch the news so you will understand what has
been going on.

>Starting a war without officially declaring one, can't be
> fair, can it?

Fairness does not enter into this morass.

alyce

> Theo


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Karen Kay wrote:
> Before I did anything else, I think I'd reboot.

OK. I did reboot and then I did something else. Not sure that it was
exactly as you instructed, but the icon is back and working. Thanks, I
think.

alyce

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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> I am, however not worried. If our government has any sense left, it would
> veto the prez declaring a war. I'm just an ignurrent furrener, but isn't
> there something like that in our constitution? It would be a completely
> asinine act IMO.

    Somebody beat me to this one.  You might try Googling "War Powers Act" and
check how the voting went.

> I can also understand European countries not willing to support us. For a big
> country to attack a much smaller one, wouldn't seem fair to them.

    This must be a fairly recent development.  And I guess the East Indies don't
count?

> They also
> know what war means, as they have experienced it in the past, where as the US
> has never been involved in one in a true sense.

    <snort>  Where'd all those monuments and cemeteries come from?

> Let's face it, neither Korea
> nor Vietnam has ever attacked us in return,

    No, just our allies whom we'd sworn to defend.

> and the war between the states is
> just history, and none of us has ever suffered from it.

    Then World War Two is just history as well, none of us has suffered from it,
and you need to stop hectoring us about how Canada won it.

JMW

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Karen Kay wrote:
> It depends on how you define the purpose.

Or on what "it" means, Ms. Clinton?

alyce

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:55:06 -0600 (CST)
From: "RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" <rjscheid@nadal.loyno.edu>
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Hey, something really weird just occurred to me.

*Could* the President _veto_ a declaration of war?

Or is it a different kind of thing from other laws?

--
Richard                      16, 19

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:55:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 2:41:41 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> It depends on how you define the purpose.

> Or on what "it" means, Ms. Clinton?

No, not it. A lot of times, it doesn't matter whether you put in
a screw or a nail. You just need some fastener.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:00:33 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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02003-02-13 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > > >The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
> > > >humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.
> > >
> >I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
> >"I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
> >adaptations...
>
> I've fallen for the basic story in about a million different
> iterations, ranging from my old Grimm's Fairy Tales book circa 1962
> to the Disney version to "The Beautician and the Beast" (I'm probably
> one of about eight people who saw that and two people who will admit
> to having done so) to the most recent one, "Two Weeks' Notice." It's
> not the specific fairy tale that matters, it's the story.

These could all be "broadway" adaptations. Sometimes it so happens
that a very crucial part of the original plot is suppressed in almost
every version you hear ...

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 13:20:00 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>02003-02-13 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  > > >The closer archetype is "Beauty and the Beast" -- the beast who's
>>  > > >humanized by love. I'm always a sucker for that one.
>>  > >
>>  >I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
>>  >"I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
>>  >adaptations...
>>
>>  I've fallen for the basic story in about a million different
>>  iterations, ranging from my old Grimm's Fairy Tales book circa 1962
>>  to the Disney version to "The Beautician and the Beast" (I'm probably
>>  one of about eight people who saw that and two people who will admit
>>  to having done so) to the most recent one, "Two Weeks' Notice." It's
>>  not the specific fairy tale that matters, it's the story.
>
>These could all be "broadway" adaptations. Sometimes it so happens
>that a very crucial part of the original plot is suppressed in almost
>every version you hear ...

I'm willing to accept that possibility, but not to do the research to
find out. If someone else is, I'd be interested in learning more.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 15:23:16 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:21:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> (The Episcopal Church uses a Declaration of Secularization during the
> Secularization of a Consecrated Building. I have been present for one such
> service, in FL.)

Monks bless new houses in Japan, but sometimes fake monks do it as a
scam.  I guess blessing a house is sort of the opposite of securalizing
a building, though.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> We're at Yellow Alert, the stage below Red Alert. Everyone is

I think we're Orange, aren't we?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:23:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Apex.  (If I had a smaller house, it wouldn't have taken me as long to
> > do that research.)
>
> Or if you had your house arranged more conveniently...

? Having everything in one room is my ideal, but then what's the point
of having separate rooms if you live in only one of them?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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It always struck me as being like decommissioning a battleship.

BrP



> "Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
>
> > (The Episcopal Church uses a Declaration of Secularization during the
> > Secularization of a Consecrated Building. I have been present for one such
> > service, in FL.)
>
> Monks bless new houses in Japan, but sometimes fake monks do it as a
> scam.  I guess blessing a house is sort of the opposite of securalizing
> a building, though.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Yes orange.

One of the late night comics - I forget which one - was comparing the "alert" colors
to the colors in the tropical fruit Skittles - they are the same.  I forget what orange is -
maybe mango.  Condition Mango just doesn't sound as scary though.

BrP




> Karen Kay wrote:
>
> > We're at Yellow Alert, the stage below Red Alert. Everyone is
>
> I think we're Orange, aren't we?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 15:29:55 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:59:09 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 02:48 PM 2/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > I would argue that the purpose is often the same, but that the
> > methods are different.
>
>A fairly stupid argument. It is not easy to insert a screw with a hammer
>unless you don't mean for it to hold. It is also difficult to hammer in
>a nail with a screwdriver. But, whatever.
>
>alyce

It is easy to insert a screw with a hammer and it will hold. What it does
to the wood or whatever you happen to be nailing it into is another thing.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 15:31:02 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:29:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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John Williams wrote:

>     Most people around here have such things on hand as a matter of
> course.  Hell, some have a year's worth!

I bet more do in Utah than in Arizona.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 15:37:08 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:35:34 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> I never claimed it until I did an itemized return. For the record, I do the
> itemized return in order to include the one large donation I make a year.

Have you compared the results with the standard deduction?  The standard
deduction assumes you've made average contributions for the year.  One
large one might equal that average.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 15:38:38 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:37:13 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> Speaking of, are you coming to Snow Bash?

No.  Maybe next year.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 15:42:13 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:40:49 -0600
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"RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" wrote:
>
> > So who's going to help me figure out who died?  It's bugging me.
>
> You should just be satisfied with being the person
> history will record as having started the notorious
> "Cliff Stoll is Dead Internet Rumor of 2003".

You're right.  Maybe I mentally killed him because of his attitudes
about the net in recent years.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 14:41:33 -0700
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> I bet more do in Utah than in Arizona.

    How much?  (Hint:  You'd lose.)  There is no distance provision in
the Guiding Principles.

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 15:44:36 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:42:02 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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At 03:35 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > I never claimed it until I did an itemized return. For the record, I do the
> > itemized return in order to include the one large donation I make a year.
>
>Have you compared the results with the standard deduction?  The standard
>deduction assumes you've made average contributions for the year.  One
>large one might equal that average.
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

No, I haven't done that. I didn't know to do that. The first year I file
itemized was because I donated my car which counted as a $1500 donation.
Last year I filed itemized for other reasons but it included a $250
donation. This year's donation was $500.

I donated more than $500 but they were smaller donations and all told I
don't think they added up to more than $100. I didn't have any proof as
they were cash so I didn't list them.

One thing I did fine was, when I did Tina's taxes by hand her refund was
$66  less than what turbo tax said it was so we used them to file her taxes
too.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:54:11 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:
>
> Don't forget: It's Survivor night!!!!

An hour and a half!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <133.1b0ee41d.2b7d502c@aol.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:58:15 -0600
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> on TV a few times, but haven't seen anything mentioned about this war
> preparation on the local news. Are they saving Idaho from the fear of
it?
> Just wondering Theo

Perhaps this news was withheld in areas where known
USA debunkers live.

                     - D. M.

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:02:56 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> I'll
> pass on the smallpox,

To whom?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:10:02 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> You're the first one who advised me of this condition, because I hardly ever
> watch TV.

You don't have to watch tv.  It's in written news sources also,
including on the web.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 16:20:56 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:19:19 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> Oops, I'm sorry, but isn't there any way that WE (the people) can stop this
> asinine notion?

Blogging?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 16:22:41 2003
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Marie Ascher wrote:
>
>  My husband is truly against buying French products,
> due to the country's antisemitic tendencies.

I've never thought of France as anti-semitic.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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lisa alfieri wrote:

> It is easy to insert a screw with a hammer and it will hold. What it does
> to the wood or whatever you happen to be nailing it into is another thing.

I agree.  I've nailed in screws quite often since it's easier than
screwing them if the wood is hard.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 04:21 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, natalie wrote:
>Marie Ascher wrote:
> >
> >  My husband is truly against buying French products,
> > due to the country's antisemitic tendencies.
>
>I've never thought of France as anti-semitic.

...and Dreyfuss was a myth...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 16:35:48 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:34:19 -0500
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
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In an apparent new tape, Osama has indicated the desire to die as a
martyr  "in the belly of the eagle" (presumably a reference to the USA).

So, we give Osama a plane ticket on any airline landing at
JFK.  Concurrently, we provide Dubya with all the pretzels he can
eat.  Then we leave our stealth VP at whatever undisclosed location he is
bunkered in.

cwv
P.S.  In WWII, "Dugout Doug" had a certain ring to it.  "Undisclosed
Location Dick" doesn't have nearly the same panache.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 16:42:43 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:22:23 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Theodora Groothof wrote:
> >
> I've watched the news
> > on TV a few times, but haven't seen anything mentioned about this war
> > preparation on the local news.
>
> You might try watching the national news, Theo. This is incredible--we
> are on the brink of war for weeks now and you know nothing of it?
> Sheesh!

I thought she was talking about the relatively recent news stories about
personal preparation for terrorist attacks -- sealing yourself in with
duct tape, etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 02/12/2003 11:33:38 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Eek! Those are serious. Have you thought about buying a car?


>>

Neither Mom nor I can drive.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] this week's resolution
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In a message dated 02/13/2003 6:05:05 AM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
Apex.  (If I had a smaller house, it wouldn't have taken me as long to
do that research.)


>>

Thanks!  It's been working out OK?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:31:49 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wonderful words!
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On Thu, 13 Feb 2003 08:50:05 EST, Judith E. Schrier
<PRIMATE@BROWNVM.BROWN.EDU> wrote:

>Experimental realization of freely propagating teleported qubits
>JIAN-WEI PAN, SARA GASPARONI, MARKUS ASPELMEYER, THOMAS JENNEWEIN &
>ANTON ZEILINGER
>http://www.nature.com/nlink/v421/n6924/abs/nature01412_fs.html
>
>love, judith

We discussed this on the list in 1991.

neal

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In a message dated 02/13/2003 11:45:47 AM Central Standard Time,
Groothof2@AOL.COM writes:

<<
In a message dated 2/13/2003 9:15:32 AM, alfieri@ATTBI.COM writes:

<< I'm glad you're leaving Sears though, you've never said one good thing
about being their employee.

Best of luck..
>>

>From me too. Working in a place that doesn't agree with you can't be good.
Theo

>>

Thanks, both of you!

I guess I'm not the only one who feels this way about Sears as an
employer.  Check out www.retailworker.com.

I'm taking in cookies for the package pickup guys; they've been the
greatest!

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:20:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 3:22:36 PM, you wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:

>> We're at Yellow Alert, the stage below Red Alert. Everyone is

> I think we're Orange, aren't we?

Yes. I wasn't awake when I wrote that.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:40:01 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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John Williams wrote:

> > I bet more do in Utah than in Arizona.
>
>     How much?  (Hint:  You'd lose.)

I'll bet $-50.  Note the minus.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:44:10 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> >Have you compared the results with the standard deduction?  The standard
> >deduction assumes you've made average contributions for the year.  One
> >large one might equal that average.
> No, I haven't done that. I didn't know to do that. The first year I file
> itemized was because I donated my car which counted as a $1500 donation.
> Last year I filed itemized for other reasons but it included a $250
> donation. This year's donation was $500.

That $1500 donation would probably make itemizing better, but $500 or
below wouldn't.  Which way is better depends on other things also, of
course, but not having a mortgage would mean you'd have to come up with
lots of other things to make itemizing worth it.  The standard deduction
assumes that you to have the average deductions of itemizers.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:33:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>Monks bless new houses in Japan, but sometimes fake monks do it as a
>scam.  I guess blessing a house is sort of the opposite of securalizing
>a building, though.

Priests bless houses in ECUSA. Churches are <consecrated>, I believe.

When I had my first loft down here blessed, we blessed the entire cluster
of buildings, the parking lots, all the horses at PF, etc. So I have not
had another house blessing here.

Bethany

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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Marie Ascher wrote:
>
> Don't forget: It's Survivor night!!!!

Also investment club night. We may fight over whether to sell AOL.

Bethany

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:57:37 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:

> >I've never thought of France as anti-semitic.
>
> ...and Dreyfuss was a myth...

I wasn't talking about things of over a hundred years ago.  I was
talking twentieth century, particularly the latter half of it -- my
lifetime.  (Re the current century, I am aware that anti-semitism is
said to be on an increase in Europe.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:58:32 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> <<
> Apex.  (If I had a smaller house, it wouldn't have taken me as long to
> do that research.)
> >>
>
> Thanks!  It's been working out OK?

It worked fine the one time I've used it.  Haven't had occasion to try
it again yet.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 16:57:33 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:56:30 PM, you wrote:
>
>
>>>Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:33:01 PM, you wrote:
>>>
>>>>Just saw on CNN how Our Nation's Schools Would Handle Attacks. Kids
>>>>would be pulled into the school buildings and all air intake turned off.
>>>>Kids would be hugged and the situation would be explained, like, "There
>>>>are bad people in the world who want to hurt us, but we love you."
>>>>
>>>>That's it. They left out the suffocating part.
>>>>
>>>I'm glad I don't have children.
>>>
>>>Karen,
>>>Just a tool of love
>>>
>
>
>>This reminds me of a moment - around the time Tina was first learning to read.  I
>>had been to a no nukes march in NY and when I came home I had a button that said
>>"stop nuclear war."  She was, in those days, taking great delight in copying things
>>she saw in writing - as a way of learning words.  She asked if she could copy the
>>words from my button and of course I said yes.  As she was carefully drawing the
>>letters, she said " I know what this word means (pointing to "stop") and I know what
>>this word means (pointing to "war") but I don't know the word in the middle.  I
>>pondered about how to explain "nuclear" and finally characterized it as a war that
>>would involve the whole world.  Her immediate question totally blew me away.
>>"Does that mean I would die?"
>>
>
> At such a young age, how did she know that people die?


        Kids are aware of such things pretty young.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:02:21 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

>>I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
>>"I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
>>adaptations...
>>
>
> are you sure you're not gay?
>


        Nobody, but NOBODY is gayer than Tushar.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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In a message dated 2/13/2003 1:41:05 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< You might try watching the national news, Theo. This is incredible--we
are on the brink of war for weeks now and you know nothing of it?
Sheesh!

alyce
 >>

I watched the national news too, but honestly, unless it starts tonight,
there has been no mention of it here. Of course the war plans were on, but no
preparations were ever mentioned. I'm sorry if it never reached these
regions, but I wouldn't lie about it ever.
Perhaps those portions are edited out; I have no idea. Aside from that, I
repeat: Americans have no idea what war is about, and as I recall, I warned
you guys a long time ago, when the talk about it started, that If and when
this country ever decided to get involved in a war, that you'd be sorry. You
all might get pissed because I've been through it once, and hoped I'd never
had to experience it again, but I'm telling the truth. Don't forget, I'm
reaching 70 soon, and I was 5 years old when the Germans flattened Rotterdam
where I was born, and lived in 1940. I remember distinctly hiding in the
stairwell, (in case our building got hit, so we could escape) and hearing the
noise from the planes, and the bombs hitting the inner city. So like it or
not, I know whereof I speak, dear people. And I also know about the Korean
and Vietnamese wars, because my ex served in both of them. He wasn't actively
involved in the fighting, because he was in communications, but he told me
that he would hide in a bunker as soon as the fighting came near his
location. So there you have it; call me names all you want, but I speak from
experience, and I repeat: starting a war is without a doubt the craziest
thing this country has ever done in a long time. And IF we do, we'll be
sorry, I guarantee it. Theo

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:06:56 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Thursday, February 13, 2003, 12:33:01 PM, you wrote:
>
>>Just saw on CNN how Our Nation's Schools Would Handle Attacks. Kids
>>would be pulled into the school buildings and all air intake turned off.
>>Kids would be hugged and the situation would be explained, like, "There
>>are bad people in the world who want to hurt us, but we love you."
>>
>
>>That's it. They left out the suffocating part.
>>
>
> I'm glad I don't have children.
>


        I'm really not sure there is a better response, Alyce.  There
are people who would like to kill Americans, I do love my
students, and if I have to go down, I'd prefer to go down
hugging.  And if I couldn't be there, I'd hope somebody was
hugging my kid.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 17:21:56 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:08:50 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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        You know, I could have sworn that our reaction to being at
war would be to hold the world's largest swing dance on an
open plain in Nebraska.

Theodora Groothof wrote:

> In a message dated 2/13/2003 1:41:05 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:
>
> << You might try watching the national news, Theo. This is incredible--we
> are on the brink of war for weeks now and you know nothing of it?
> Sheesh!
>
> alyce
>  >>
>
> I watched the national news too, but honestly, unless it starts tonight,
> there has been no mention of it here. Of course the war plans were on, but no
> preparations were ever mentioned. I'm sorry if it never reached these
> regions, but I wouldn't lie about it ever.
> Perhaps those portions are edited out; I have no idea. Aside from that, I
> repeat: Americans have no idea what war is about, and as I recall, I warned
> you guys a long time ago, when the talk about it started, that If and when
> this country ever decided to get involved in a war, that you'd be sorry. You
> all might get pissed because I've been through it once, and hoped I'd never
> had to experience it again, but I'm telling the truth. Don't forget, I'm
> reaching 70 soon, and I was 5 years old when the Germans flattened Rotterdam
> where I was born, and lived in 1940. I remember distinctly hiding in the
> stairwell, (in case our building got hit, so we could escape) and hearing the
> noise from the planes, and the bombs hitting the inner city. So like it or
> not, I know whereof I speak, dear people. And I also know about the Korean
> and Vietnamese wars, because my ex served in both of them. He wasn't actively
> involved in the fighting, because he was in communications, but he told me
> that he would hide in a bunker as soon as the fighting came near his
> location. So there you have it; call me names all you want, but I speak from
> experience, and I repeat: starting a war is without a doubt the craziest
> thing this country has ever done in a long time. And IF we do, we'll be
> sorry, I guarantee it. Theo
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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In a message dated 2/13/2003 3:23:03 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< I thought she was talking about the relatively recent news stories about
personal preparation for terrorist attacks -- sealing yourself in with
duct tape, etc.
 >>

That too, Theo

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:13:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> I watched the national news too, but honestly, unless it starts tonight,
> there has been no mention of it here. Of course the war plans were on, but no
> preparations were ever mentioned. I'm sorry if it never reached these
> regions, but I wouldn't lie about it ever.

What "preparations" are you talking about?  I'm confused now.  You say
you knew about "the war plans."  The thing about food and water and duct
tape is about the heightened security alert re terrorist attacks.

> Perhaps those portions are edited out; I have no idea. Aside from that, I
> repeat: Americans have no idea what war is about, and as I recall, I warned
> you guys a long time ago, when the talk about it started, that If and when
> this country ever decided to get involved in a war, that you'd be sorry. You

This is the craziest thing I've ever read.  Who is the "you" you're
addressing here?  Iow, who among your audience is in favor of war?

>  And I also know about the Korean
> and Vietnamese wars, because my ex served in both of them. He wasn't actively
> involved in the fighting, because he was in communications, but he told me
> that he would hide in a bunker as soon as the fighting came near his
> location.

What nationality was your ex?  I had thought he was American, but you've
made clear above that "Americans have no idea what war is about."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:14:44 -0600
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>         You know, I could have sworn that our reaction to being at
> war would be to hold the world's largest swing dance on an
> open plain in Nebraska.

You have a way with words, Czarina.  I'm LOL.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:16:55 -0600
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Not that anyone asked, but Jeff has gone home today and I am back on my
> own. I am not sure that I was missed for a whole long week, for no one
> inquired. Did you not miss me?

Yes, we did.  But you weren't totally absent, were you.  You sent a
couple of postings I'm sure.  And it's funny that I was just on the
verge of asking you when Jeff was leaving.  I knew it was around now but
was thinking maybe the end of the week.

>  And I discovered after he
> left a lovely box of chocolates and a Valentine on my pillow.

I love that!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 17:21:56 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:19:29 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote
> Perhaps this news was withheld in areas where known
> USA debunkers live.

That probably is it, Doris. As an aside to Theo, one of the
responsibilities of a good citizen is to stay abreast of what is going
on.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 17:21:54 2003
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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Evelyn Duncan wrote:

>Neither Mom nor I can drive.

Maybe .... it is ... time to learn!

Bethany

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:14:46 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Not that anyone asked, but Jeff has gone home today and I am back on my
own. I am not sure that I was missed for a whole long week, for no one
inquired. Did you not miss me? Hard to believe. In any case, it was
grand to have had Jeff here. He worked like a dog and cleaned, threw
away junk, fixed a running toilet, repaired a light switch, cooked, did
errands, fed the birds, and made me laugh. And I discovered after he
left a lovely box of chocolates and a Valentine on my pillow.

alyce
--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 17:23:09 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:11:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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Theo, you are not the only person in the U.S. who knows something about
war.

I have limited experience myself, but I do recall blackouts in Corpus
Christi when I was a child - and my father served in the Navy during the
latter part of WWII. He was not drafted - he volunteered. We were lucky
- he did not have to serve overseas, for the war ended before he was
due to ship out. The fathers of many of my friends were not so fortunate.

(I served in the USMC reserve for a short time, also.)

Bethany

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:24:13 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 3:23:49 PM, you wrote:
> ? Having everything in one room is my ideal, but then what's the point
> of having separate rooms if you live in only one of them?

I live in all the rooms of my house (except my housemate's room),
but I have a TV in the same room as my computer.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 17:26:33 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:25:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 3:25:45 PM, you wrote:
> One of the late night comics - I forget which one - was comparing the "alert" colors
> to the colors in the tropical fruit Skittles - they are the same.  I forget what orange is -
> maybe mango.  Condition Mango just doesn't sound as scary though.

No. They are 2/$1 now.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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In a message dated 2/13/2003 4:09:11 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Did you not miss me? >>

Yes, I wondered where you were, but I hadn't been on regularly either, so I
thought that perhaps your absence had been mentioned, and I had missed it.
Welcome back, Allie.
Theo

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <3E4C18D6.E8640E20@valstar.net>
Subject: Re:      home alone
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:29:59 -0600
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> Not that anyone asked, but Jeff has gone home today and I am back on
my
> own. I am not sure that I was missed for a whole long week, for no one
> inquired. Did you not miss me? Hard to believe. In any case, it was
> grand to have had Jeff here. He worked like a dog and cleaned, threw
> away junk, fixed a running toilet, repaired a light switch, cooked,
did
> errands, fed the birds, and made me laugh. And I discovered after he
> left a lovely box of chocolates and a Valentine on my pillow.
>
> alyce


A good <kid>.

Yes, I did miss you and I wondered if you had
worsened, but I've been scanning and thought
probably I had missed the update.

Glad you are well enough to be alone.

              - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 17:29:20 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:28:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: home alone
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 4:14:46 PM, you wrote:
> I am not sure that I was missed for a whole long week, for no one
> inquired. Did you not miss me? Hard to believe.

I missed you, but remembered you with Jeff.

> In any case, it was grand to have had Jeff here. He worked like
> a dog and cleaned, threw away junk, fixed a running toilet,
> repaired a light switch, cooked, did errands, fed the birds,
> and made me laugh.

Good!

> And I discovered after he
> left a lovely box of chocolates and a Valentine on my pillow.

What a sweet child!

Did you have your latest scan? What did it show?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 17:35:52 2003
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Message-ID: <3E4C2795.22137C03@valstar.net>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:17:41 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> alyce cresap wrote:
> > I'll
> > pass on the smallpox,
>
> To whom?

Ha ha, Miss Natalie. Like standing on line, this Yankee passes on things
without giving them to others.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 17:44:32 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 15:33:21 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: home alone
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I had been thinking about you. I figured he was keeping you busy and
wouldn't let you on the computer  to chat with us. You were missed.

Betty

At 05:14 PM 2/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Not that anyone asked, but Jeff has gone home today and I am back on my
>own. I am not sure that I was missed for a whole long week, for no one
>inquired. Did you not miss me? Hard to believe. In any case, it was
>grand to have had Jeff here. He worked like a dog and cleaned, threw
>away junk, fixed a running toilet, repaired a light switch, cooked, did
>errands, fed the birds, and made me laugh. And I discovered after he
>left a lovely box of chocolates and a Valentine on my pillow.
>
>alyce
>--
>alyce cresap, books & ephemera
>po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
>518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
>http://www.alybooks.com
>charter member: IOBA
>independent on-line booksellers association
>selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 18:01:03 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:00:16 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: home alone
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Not that anyone asked, but Jeff has gone home today and I am back on my
> own. I am not sure that I was missed for a whole long week, for no one
> inquired. Did you not miss me? Hard to believe. In any case, it was
> grand to have had Jeff here. He worked like a dog and cleaned, threw
> away junk, fixed a running toilet, repaired a light switch, cooked, did
> errands, fed the birds, and made me laugh. And I discovered after he
> left a lovely box of chocolates and a Valentine on my pillow.

        I thought about inquiring a couple of times, but then I
remembered Jeff was there and figured you had better things
to do this week than soothe a buncha worrywarts.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 18:02:26 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:00:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > > I'll
> > > pass on the smallpox,
> >
> > To whom?
>
> Ha ha, Miss Natalie. Like standing on line, this Yankee passes on things
> without giving them to others.

But it is a rather interesting case of three-way interpretation -- more
than three, really:  refusing the vaccination and getting smallpox and
passing it on to somebody else, passing on the vaccination, passing on
your share of the vaccine to somebody else, passing on smallpox as
saying no to it, and probably more.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 18:05:18 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:03:50 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> I live in all the rooms of my house (except my housemate's room),
> but I have a TV in the same room as my computer.

Is your refrigerator also in that room?  What if you need something from
it while at the computer?  What about your bed?  Mightn't you get sleepy
while watching tv?  Or what if somebody asked you a question in e-mail
about a houseplant that required you to look at it?  Are all plants in
the computer room?

As I said, I do like the idea of living in only one room and having
everything nearby, but if not doing that then everybody's idea of
convenient combinations isn't exactly like yours.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:06:07 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 4:57:33 PM, you wrote:
>> At such a young age, how did she know that people die?


>         Kids are aware of such things pretty young.

I wasn't, but I'm a slow learner in a lot of ways.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:19:37 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> I've never thought of France as anti-semitic.

Dreyfus.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I thought she was talking about the relatively recent news stories about
> personal preparation for terrorist attacks -- sealing yourself in with
> duct tape, etc.

Oh. Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought she was talking about war
preparation.

alyce

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:14:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > I've never thought of France as anti-semitic.
>
> Dreyfus.

I don't think he was alive in my lifetime.  I'm not talking about the
whole history of France.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:42:20 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>> Janet Hardy wrote:
>>
>>  > Addiction to infatuation is certainly pathological, but I don't see
>>  > infatuation as pathological in and of itself -- just useless.
>>
>>         Well, it worked for me!
>
>
> I'm glad! -- although, up to about five years ago, I'd have said the
> same :/


        Hey, no jinxing me.




>>         I'm not sure everyone who thinks they have ADHD actually has
>> it -- there are a host of other disorders that mimic some
>> aspects of true ADHD, but many people get to that point and
>> stop investigating.
>
>
> True. Or some just assume that whatever they have is ADHD without
> bothering to be clinically assessed -- a strategy which I myself have
> used, since whether I do or don't I seem to be adapting to it
> adequately well. (I've seen some interesting speculations that it's
> not a "disorder" at all, but simply a different means of thought and
> focus which is less well adapted to life in the school and the
> workplace, which makes a certain amount of sense to me.)


        Except that ADHD also makes it difficult to adapt to
everything else, too.  ADHD kids have just as hard a time
playing sports as they do in the classroom -- everything we
do in life requires some kind of focus.


>> I think BDSMers may have hyposensory
>> issues in which it just takes a lot of stimulation to feel
>> good.  A whack that a normal person finds painful and
>> unpleasant may feel just right to somebody with
>> hyposensitivity -- and that is very calming.
>
>
> I've never seen any evidence, nor do I believe, that a whack feels
> any different to a perv than to a vanilla. What makes the difference
> is what we do with the sensation.


        I have oodles of evidence that different people perceive
stimuli differently.  It isn't "what you do with the
sensation" -- that's something else entirely.  That's a
learned response.  People who are autistic, for example,
often perceive touch in radically different ways than most
of us.  I know several children who you can't spank for
punishment because it feels so good to them to have that
kind of deep pressure.



> Some of you probably saw the recent study that attempted to determine
> how pain was perceived in the absence of accompanying emotions
> (anger, fear, etc.) -- I can't remember whether I talked about it
> here. The design of the study was that study subjects were given a
> metal rod to hold, which could be heated to warm but not painful, or
> all the way up to painful, and told to drop the rod whenever it got
> to be too much. Brain scans were being run on these subjects during
> the experiment. While the pain centers of the brain lit up, of
> course, so did the reward centers -- and there was no evidence that
> these subjects were any more or less kinky than the general public.
>
> Pain processing techniques can be learned -- they're taught in yoga,
> Lamaze and martial arts, to name a few places. And these disciplines
> all have in common that they're done in an atmosphere where fear and
> anger have been minimized or eliminated. But a vanilla person who has
> no particular athletic or childbearing goal, and who is not ill or
> injured, has no motivation to practice these techniques. A perv,
> whose fantasies may include pain, *does* have such a motivation, a
> strong one. So s/he sets up a situation in which anger and fear are
> minimized, and learns ways to relax into the sensation instead of
> fighting it, and finds pleasure in it.



        I'm not talking about techniques or finding pleasure in pain.
  I am familiar with pain coping techniques.  Not the same
thing at all.




>>         Differing rates of maturity, to be honest. Most couples I saw
>> were divorcing because one partner had left behind a certain
>> lifestyle (such as partying) while the other hadn't, or one
>> partner decided to get an education.  They were well suited
>> to each other at the time of infatuation, but went in
>> different directions.  I think that's hard to predict.
>
>
> True. Or one partner has more materialistic values than the other and
> there are money conflicts. Etc., etc.
>
>> Another reason I saw is that they just weren't "in-love"
>> with each other anymore -- either they never progressed
>> beyond infautation or they thought that mature love meant
>> they were out of love.  These were the easiest and saddest
>> divorces.
>
>
> Or infatuation never did evolve into anything else, and faded on its
> own -- which is what I was talking about above. Mature love can also
> get so fucking mature that it evolves into a sort of complacent
> roommatehood, which can be nice at times but tends to wear thin after
> a while.


        I certainly saw that, but I was saying the majority of
divorce cases I saw.



> I'll be curious to hear.
>


        I'll let you know.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:04:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 4:36:38 PM, you wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>>Neither Mom nor I can drive.

> Maybe .... it is ... time to learn!

Easier said than done. And she probably doesn't have enough money
to take driving lessons *and* buy a car/insurance/etc.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:21:32 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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The Difference Between The Liberal and Conservative
"Debate" Over The War On Terrorism:

Question:
You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small
children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes
around
the corner and is running at you while screaming obscenities. In your
hand
is a Glock .40 and you are an expert shot. You have mere seconds before
he
reaches you and your family. What do you do?


______________________________________
Liberal Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question! Does the
man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to him that is
inspiring him to attack? Could we run away? What does my wife think?
What
about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the
knife out of his hand? What does the law say about this situation? Is it
possible he'd be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to
kill
me or would he just be content to wound me? If I were to grab his knees
and
hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me? This is all
so
confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days to try
to
come to a conclusion.

____________________________________________________________
Conservative Answer:
BANG!

____________________________________________________________
Texan's Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click... (sounds
of magazine being ejected and fresh magazine installed)
Wife: "Sweetheart, he looks like he's still moving, what do you kids
think?"
Son: "Mom's right Dad, I saw it too..."
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
Daughter: "Nice grouping Daddy!"

alyce

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:11:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 6:03:50 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I live in all the rooms of my house (except my housemate's room),
>> but I have a TV in the same room as my computer.

> Is your refrigerator also in that room?  What if you need something from
> it while at the computer?  What about your bed?  Mightn't you get sleepy
> while watching tv?  Or what if somebody asked you a question in e-mail
> about a houseplant that required you to look at it?  Are all plants in
> the computer room?

> As I said, I do like the idea of living in only one room and having
> everything nearby, but if not doing that then everybody's idea of
> convenient combinations isn't exactly like yours.

I like having things spread out. And I don't complain about how
far I have to go for things.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:16:45 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > I thought she was talking about the relatively recent news stories about
> > personal preparation for terrorist attacks -- sealing yourself in with
> > duct tape, etc.
>
> Oh. Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought she was talking about war
> preparation.

No, I don't know that you did.  Her later postings made me uncertain of
what she meant.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> I like having things spread out. And I don't complain about how
> far I have to go for things.

Neither do I.  I don't mind at all having to go far to get things.
That's not what it is that I don't like about living in large spaces.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Saturday
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:37:13 -0500
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> Well, Saturday is my last day at Sears; they still haven't found anyone
> to work evenings, but I decided that I can't wait anymore.

Good for you, and good luck, Evelyn.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:44:16 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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02003-02-13 | lisa alfieri <alfieri@ATTBI.COM> writes:
> No, I haven't done that. I didn't know to do that. The first year I file
> itemized was because I donated my car which counted as a $1500 donation.
> Last year I filed itemized for other reasons but it included a $250
> donation. This year's donation was $500.

For a "small enough" value of donation--and 1500 may be small--itemizing
is not worth it. At least that's what I THINK I found for a certain value
of donation last year--and if I were sure you couldn't deduce other dumb
things about me such as income, I would tell you the number.

When I say not worth it, I mean it makes a difference of 5 bucks maybe,
and not worth sweating over ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 18:47:50 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:46:26 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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02003-02-13 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>
> >>I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
> >>"I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
> >>adaptations...
> >>
> >
> >are you sure you're not gay?
>
>
>        Nobody, but NOBODY is gayer than Tushar.

I'll make a note of it, love doctor.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 18:53:04 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Lisa, re: excise tax, said:

> I never claimed it until I did an itemized return.

Ah. Thanks. I've never done an itemized returned as I always thought it
would be a waste of time since I have no house, dependents, or taxable
investments.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 18:56:03 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:54:32 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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What exactly *is* anti-Semitism?  (Leaving aside the nitpicky point
about who all is included as Semitic), I had always thought of
anti-Semitism as being prejudice against people who were Jewish.  Out of
curiosity about France and anti-Semitism, I just googled for something
like 'france anti-semitism' and started reading stuff about the supposed
recent rise in anti-Semitic feelings in France, even though I was aware
of that trend in Europe and wasn't really googling to find out anything
about it.  What struck me as interesting, however, was the mixing within
single paragraphs  of being against Israel's policies/behavior and being
anti-Semitic -- as if those were the same thing.  Are they?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:55:14 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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SURVIVOR TIME!  Or at least five minutes from now.  Bye til later.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:

> So, we give Osama a plane ticket on any airline landing at
> JFK.  Concurrently, we provide Dubya with all the pretzels he can
> eat.

    What is it with the Left and wishing death to all their "enemies'?
Whoopie Goldberg wants Clarence Brown to eat cholesterol-laden foods to have
a heart attack, Alex Baldwin wishes that Henry Hyde AND his family are stoned
to death, Spike Lee wants Charlten Heston shot to death (and/or rejoicing in
his incipient Alzheimers),  and now hoping the President chokes to death.  Is
this some new demonstration of compassion with which I'm unfamiliar?

JMW

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 17:56:32 -0700
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> alyce cresap wrote:
> > > I've never thought of France as anti-semitic.
> >
> > Dreyfus.
>
> I don't think he was alive in my lifetime.  I'm not talking about the
> whole history of France.

    Watched "The Sorrow and the Pity" lately?

JMW

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 18:46:52 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Message-ID: <20030214004652.GC3316@pobox.com>
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02003-02-13 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Thursday, February 13, 2003, 2:34:36 PM, you wrote:
> > 02003-02-13 | "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> writes:
> >> > I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
> >> > "I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
> >> > adaptations...
> >>
> >> are you sure you're not gay?
>
> > Is anyone?
>
> Me.

You are awfully sure of many things, K-R-N.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Remembering_the_seven.
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            <3E41A94B.10209@swbell.net> <20030206004322.GB15633@pobox.com>
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02003-02-13 | Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@AKAD.EE> writes:
> >  Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> > > casual conversation to say "a whole nother thing."  I'm not necessarily
> > > recommending it for Kristin, though.  It's one of those things native
> > > speakers can do that somebody might wonder about from a non-native
> > > speaker.
>
> Tushar:
>
> > These "somebody"s are idiots. Idiots will instinctively ascribe
> > play with language to a mistake if at all reasonable ...
>
> It has been often said or written, e.g. in novels or stories here and there
> that nobody speaks a language more exactly grammatically than a foreigner,
> that one may identify sb. as a foreigner if s/he speaks, so to say, too
> correctly.
>
> When I hear a foreigner speaking Estonian here (and there are much people
> from European countries who have quickly learned Estonian, and speak rather
> well, -- just an opposite to a legion of people having come from Russia
> either 50-60 years ago, or later, or having born here, who still cannot speak
> it), so if such a nice foreigner uses some colloquial expression, it is often
> fine to hear. Let him/her speak as s/he wants. But sometimes it seems to me
> that that particular colloquial or slang expression is the only one s/he
> knows for expressing his/her idea. And s/he keeps uttering it, and that makes
> me regret why nobody hasn't taught him or her a neutral expression for the
> same idea. -- These have sometimes been instances when I myself cannot help
> the speaker -- either conversations overheard, or a person introducing a
> product of a company in a store.
>
> So, what I want to say, is that I guess, one may use all kinds of expressions
> if s/he feels their style. If I used "a whole nother thing" I'd carefully
> choose where and when. If I'd use it here in this list, I guess, it'd be
> fine, besides, it'd be just trying how it sounds -- playing with language. In
> a formal conversation... well it'd be a whole nother thing 8-).

True ... but I find that every expression sort-of settles into the
foreigners of its "class" so to say--so for instance a foreigner in
some Important Corporate position in America is very unlikely to
express anything with a "ghetto expression" (though very likely to
use a dumb baseball metaphor, but that's another story). However,
my point has more to do with the ridiculous, and basically circular,
concept of non-native speaker, and especially the bizarre assumption
that such a speaker is incapable of linguistic PLAY. Proponents of
this concept--of course, they don't propound so much a toe the line--
will hear any such play as a "mistake" in the case of a non-native
speaker, and conversely ascribe a systematic mistake or illiteracy
on the part of a native speaker to play or "stylistic variation" or
whatever else they can think of.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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02003-02-13 | "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> writes:
> Yes orange.

So how come three or four people said "yellow" without the slightest
hesitation? This sort of thing pisses me off ...

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02003-02-13 | "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM> writes:
> At 04:21 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, natalie wrote:
> >Marie Ascher wrote:
> >>
> >>  My husband is truly against buying French products,
> >> due to the country's antisemitic tendencies.
> >
> >I've never thought of France as anti-semitic.
>
> ...and Dreyfuss was a myth...

God point ... actually, why not plot everything from the Roman
empire onwards and give every square meter in Europe a weighted
anti-Semitism value?

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Tony Harminc writes,

>There are Australian "Bordeau style" wines. Presumably very different
>from the typically oaky Australian style, but I haven't tried them.

Speaking of Australian wines: proof that Auburndale, Massachusetts has WMD
capability, <http://www.panix.com/~hncl/HectorsJournal/archives/000109.html>.

Also, I just squeaked under yesterday's deadline to sign the first edition
of the "Open letter from people in the United States to people all over the
world" <http://www.ieer.org/openletter/>.  They're still taking signatures
for subsequent releases.

Pete

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:49:42 -0500
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On Thursday, February 13, 2003 at 15:11, Marie Ascher wrote:

> That's interesting. Friends of mine have a wine tasting party every year and
> this year (March 1) it's a Bordeaux tasting. I hope I can get some. I
> actually was already wondering if there was (or could even be) such thing as
> a California Bordeaux.

There are Australian "Bordeau style" wines. Presumably very different
from the typically oaky Australian style, but I haven't tried them. I
can get you a name if you're interested enough - I know I saw one in
the store in the last day or two.

> My husband is truly against buying French products,
> due to the country's antisemitic tendencies.

He's really sure about that? I'm not convinced the French as a whole
are particularly antisemitic; just disgustingly pro-French. And the
French and Israelis have been on pretty good terms lately.

> Anyway, this party is quite fun. First off, my friend Judy is a truly
> fantastic cook, so the food always rocks and goes really well with the wine.
> Everyone brings a bottle of the chosen type -- last year was zin, the year
> before any Italian red, etc. -- in a paper bag concealing what it is. Bags
> are numbered and bottles uncorked and allowed to breathe. Drinkers are given
> a "scorecard" on which to judge the wines, make notes, guess at what it is,
> etc. one by one. At the end all is revealed. It is fun, and it's interesting
> to see what the favorites are. It's a good way to discover new wines. How
> Scarsdale is that?

Not quite like that Roald Dahl story.

Tony H.

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Subject: Re:      Re: a partial solution...
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----- Original Message -----
From: "John Williams" <williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU>
>     What is it with the Left and wishing death to all their "enemies'?
> Whoopie Goldberg wants Clarence Brown to eat cholesterol-laden foods to
have
> a heart attack, Alex Baldwin wishes that Henry Hyde AND his family are
stoned
> to death, Spike Lee wants Charlten Heston shot to death (and/or rejoicing
in
> his incipient Alzheimers),  and now hoping the President chokes to death.
Is
> this some new demonstration of compassion with which I'm unfamiliar?
>
> JMW

L is for License...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 19:46:09 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:44:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 6:46:52 PM, you wrote:

> 02003-02-13 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Thursday, February 13, 2003, 2:34:36 PM, you wrote:
>> > 02003-02-13 | "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> writes:
>> >> > I would like to know now what the real story was. Whenever I hear
>> >> > "I'm a sucker for that one" I suspect super-colossal Broadway
>> >> > adaptations...
>> >>
>> >> are you sure you're not gay?
>>
>> > Is anyone?
>>
>> Me.

> You are awfully sure of many things, K-R-N.

Yes, I am.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 20:17:56 2003
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At 07:07 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
>[[[[[God point]]]] ...

>  actually, why not plot everything from the Roman
>empire onwards and give every square meter in Europe a weighted
>anti-Semitism value?

Theology aside, given that things really don't change that much anywhere in
the world (cf. attitudes by George Wallace et al. vs those of Trent Lott et
al.), one could probably do that with respect to different regions and
different aspects of bigotry.  And what makes you think that the Romans
invented it?

cwv

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John Williams wrote:
> > I don't think he was alive in my lifetime.  I'm not talking about the
> > whole history of France.
>
>     Watched "The Sorrow and the Pity" lately?

No.  Never heard of it in fact.  What's it about?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 20:38:44 2003
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> my point has more to do with the ridiculous, and basically circular,
> concept of non-native speaker,

I love that you're so much the textbook Indian on this subject when I
don't think of you as textbook anything on any other subject.

> and especially the bizarre assumption
> that such a speaker is incapable of linguistic PLAY.

Has anybody said that non-native speakers are incapable of linguistic
PLAY?

> Proponents of
> this concept--of course, they don't propound so much a toe the line--
> will hear any such play as a "mistake" in the case of a non-native
> speaker, and conversely ascribe a systematic mistake or illiteracy
> on the part of a native speaker to play or "stylistic variation" or
> whatever else they can think of.

I would say that would vary greatly, depending upon the non-native
speaker as well as on the judger.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-13 | "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM> writes:
> At 07:07 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
> >[[[[[God point]]]] ...
>
> > actually, why not plot everything from the Roman
> >empire onwards and give every square meter in Europe a weighted
> >anti-Semitism value?
>
> Theology aside, given that things really don't change that much anywhere in
> the world (cf. attitudes by George Wallace et al. vs those of Trent Lott et
> al.), one could probably do that with respect to different regions and
> different aspects of bigotry.  And what makes you think that the Romans
> invented it?

I am not thinking that at all. However, thanks for another resounding
truism ... it's better than the Dreyfus one.

If you want to put theology aside ... then I guess we will have to put
it aside ...

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02003-02-13 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > my point has more to do with the ridiculous, and basically circular,
> > concept of non-native speaker,
>
> I love that you're so much the textbook Indian on this subject when I
> don't think of you as textbook anything on any other subject.

Hokae!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 20:51:23 2003
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Peter Kaminski wrote:

> Also, I just squeaked under yesterday's deadline to sign the first edition
> of the "Open letter from people in the United States to people all over the
> world" <http://www.ieer.org/openletter/>.  They're still taking signatures
> for subsequent releases.

Thanks, Pete.  I just sent my signature.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
>
> > >I've never thought of France as anti-semitic.
> >
> > ...and Dreyfuss was a myth...
>
>I wasn't talking about things of over a hundred years ago.

Le Pen.

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 21:00:24 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:58:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:

> >I wasn't talking about things of over a hundred years ago.
>
> Le Pen.

And he proves that France is anti-Semitic?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 21:02:51 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:01:18 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 8:37:14 PM, you wrote:
>> and especially the bizarre assumption
>> that such a speaker is incapable of linguistic PLAY.

> Has anybody said that non-native speakers are incapable of linguistic
> PLAY?

No--but it's an underlying assumption of most native speakers.

>> Proponents of
>> this concept--of course, they don't propound so much a toe the line--
>> will hear any such play as a "mistake" in the case of a non-native
>> speaker, and conversely ascribe a systematic mistake or illiteracy
>> on the part of a native speaker to play or "stylistic variation" or
>> whatever else they can think of.

> I would say that would vary greatly, depending upon the non-native
> speaker as well as on the judger.

It's not a universal, it's a generalization.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 21:54:13 2003
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X-Clifford-Stoll: There are no simple technological solutions to social problems
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 19:52:40 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
Subject: Re: Bar Harbor Question
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

>>Who is Zarkon?
>
>No, Who is John Galt?
>
>cwv

No, Who put the bomp in the bomp-bah-bomp-bah-bomp?

Ken Miller
Department of Canonical Responses

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 21:56:21 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 21:55:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 13, 2003, 9:52:40 PM, you wrote:
> No, Who put the bomp in the bomp-bah-bomp-bah-bomp?

Who put the ram in the ram-a-lam-a-ding-dong?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 22:03:45 2003
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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 23:02:13 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> Did you have your latest scan? What did it show?

It's on Monday.

alyce

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:04:17 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: from another list
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"A new study in Wisconsin showed that the type of male face a woman finds
attractive can differ depending on where a woman is in her menstrual
cycle.

For instance, if she is ovulating, she is more attracted to men with
rugged and masculine features.

And if she is menstruating, she is more prone to be attracted to a man
with scissors shoved in his temple and a bat rammed up his ass while he
is on fire."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 13 22:08:09 2003
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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:11:23 -0600
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>I've fallen for the basic story in about a million different
iterations, ranging from my old Grimm's Fairy Tales book circa 1962
to the Disney version to "The Beautician and the Beast" (I'm probably
one of about eight people who saw that and two people who will admit
to having done so) to the most recent one, "Two Weeks' Notice." It's
not the specific fairy tale that matters, it's the story.

>Janet

I vastly prefer Jean Cocteau's film version, "La Belle et la Bete." Great
shot of ascending a staircase where it's revealed the sconces holding the
candles are
actually human hands which adjust the lighting in slow domino tandem.

I've never been attracted to the story in particular.

AS

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 20:18:14 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>  >I've fallen for the basic story in about a million different
>iterations, ranging from my old Grimm's Fairy Tales book circa 1962
>to the Disney version to "The Beautician and the Beast" (I'm probably
>one of about eight people who saw that and two people who will admit
>to having done so) to the most recent one, "Two Weeks' Notice." It's
>not the specific fairy tale that matters, it's the story.
>
>I vastly prefer Jean Cocteau's film version, "La Belle et la Bete." Great
>shot of ascending a staircase where it's revealed the sconces holding the
>candles are
>actually human hands which adjust the lighting in slow domino tandem.

I've heard that it's wonderful but have never had a chance to see it.
(Greta Garbo is reported to have said afterwards, "Give me back my
Beast" -- my kind of girl.) I'll have to see if I can find it on
video or DVD.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 23:40:58 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> > Also, I just squeaked under yesterday's deadline to sign the first edition
> > of the "Open letter from people in the United States to people all over the
> > world" <http://www.ieer.org/openletter/>.  They're still taking signatures
> > for subsequent releases.

I signed yesterday. I also have contributed to the Not in Our Name ads
and am dismayed to learn that Stars and Stripes and another military
periodical took the money and the ads and then would not run them. I'm
sure the money will be refunded, but meanwhile that amount cannot be
used for placing ads elsewhere, which is a bummer.

alyce

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 23:44:22 -0500
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Someone wrote:
> >> and especially the bizarre assumption
> >> that such a [non-native] speaker is incapable of linguistic PLAY.

My archaeologist, not a native-speaker of English, made the most
wonderful puns and did great word playing.

alyce

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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In a message dated 2/13/2003 5:10:41 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Oh. Perhaps I misunderstood. I thought she was talking about war
preparation.

alyce
 >>

You sure did. I'm well aware of the war preparation; it's hard to miss, but I
had not heard any mention of preparing yourself for it. When I asked a friend
who lives on the east coast about it tonight, he too said that everyone had
been told to get enough food to last at least for 3 days. That was news to
me, because it's not done in these regions. Theo

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Message-ID: <006401c2d3e9$4b9398c0$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <F83nBhy4dzgrQkPOhJn00009744@hotmail.com> 
            <3E4C5B6C.42755340@maynor.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 23:24:03 -0600
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> Marie Ascher wrote:
>
> > >I wasn't talking about things of over a hundred years ago.
> >
> > Le Pen.
>
> And he proves that France is anti-Semitic?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

As I walked through the TV room this afternoon
I heard some <pundits> talking about the buildup
of anti-semitism in Europe and particularly in France.
One of them said that part of the hatred being
directed toward us by Europeans was because of
our friendship with Israel.  Or something like that.
I have no idea who they were.

                - D. M.

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 00:00:48 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
 everyone had
> been told to get enough food to last at least for 3 days. That was news to
> me, because it's not done in these regions.

They may not be doing it in your region, but it was suggested (not
ordered) for everyone, everywhere. But it was probably featured more on
the national news than the local, and you said you only watch local.

alyce

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In a message dated 2/13/2003 4:14:16 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< What nationality was your ex?  I had thought he was American, but you've
made clear above that "Americans have no idea what war is about."
 >>

His nationality has no bearing on this discussion, but no, he was also born
in Holland. I knew him because we had been neighbors before he left to come
here.

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Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
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>
> Also, I just squeaked under yesterday's deadline to sign the first
edition
> of the "Open letter from people in the United States to people all
over the
> world" <http://www.ieer.org/openletter/>.  They're still taking
signatures
> for subsequent releases.
>
> Pete

Are you sure this is the way to go?

With friends like these, who needs enemies.

                     - D. M.

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Date: Thu, 13 Feb 2003 22:01:45 -0800
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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Doris Markland writes,

>With friends like these, who needs enemies.

What's wrong with 'em?

Pete

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 00:15:45 -0600
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> Doris Markland writes,
>
> >With friends like these, who needs enemies.
>
> What's wrong with 'em?
>
> Pete

Well, Pete, if I could explain what I felt as I
read this document I would, but I can't.
Too complicated.

I guess to me it read like one of the McCoy
teens writing to the Hatfields to tell them all
his gripes about the McCoys.

I am against war and against this war but I
don't think this document will help the
situation and may even do harm.

                 - D. M.

                    - D. M.

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Peter Kaminski <kaminski@istori.com>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Doris Markland writes,

>I guess to me it read like one of the McCoy
>teens writing to the Hatfields to tell them all
>his gripes about the McCoys.

Thanks.  I'll think about this.

>I am against war and against this war but I
>don't think this document will help the
>situation and may even do harm.

Funny thing is, I'm not really against the war.  I just think the US
supremists running the country are busily destroying both this country's
liberties and freedoms and the Pax Americana they love so much, and that
it's not good for anybody except the defense and energy capitalists.

Pete

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 01:08:39 -0600
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>
> Funny thing is, I'm not really against the war.  I just think the US
> supremists running the country are busily destroying both this
country's
> liberties and freedoms and the Pax Americana they love so much, and
that
> it's not good for anybody except the defense and energy capitalists.
>
> Pete

I'm having trouble seeing anything good in
anything that is happening anywhere right
now.  But I can't step back far enough to
see the big picture.

I think the biggest problem is an anger and
frustration that has been building not just for
years but for centuries . . . in individuals, in
cultures, in countries . . . and at this point in
time has amassed enough power for an
inner and eventually an outer explosion.
There are so many factors throughout history
that have caused this, you cannot single out
one group or one country and say they caused it,
but it's true that one thing happening right now
could trigger a domino effect, and it's frightening.

Pent up anger occurs when individuals cannot
express themselves freely.  And since they are
here to express themselves and be who they
came to be, if someone puts them in a box and
then someone puts their group or their country
in a box their confinement is going to crush them.
If they are given rules they don't understand but
not taught how to grow enough to set their own
rules, they are going to eventually rebel.  etc. etc.

I'm not just talking about underdeveloped countries
and those with political and economic problems.
I'm talking about all individuals and groups in the
world, and there is an obvious unrest among the
natives of this planet.

If I wanted to place some blame I would not look
to the politicians.  They are relatively temporary.
I would look to a factor much deeper in society
and much older and much more invasive.



                    - D. M.

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10:45 13.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>http://www.balletmet.org/Notes/StoryOrigin.html mentions that
>"Aarne-Thompson lists 179 tales from different countries with a
>similar theme to Beauty and the Beast." I'd love to know what the
>theme is. [425A--"The Monster or Animal as Bridegroom"]
>
>Anyway, the author continues with "At one point the
>Beauty is separated from her Beast and at that time some ill
>befalls him. Beauty?s remorse, sometimes as simple as shedding a
>tear and sometimes as onerous a penance as going to the end of
>the earth, saves the Beast and his transformation to handsome man
>is achieved." It's his transformation, but caused by her.

In the most known Norwegian version of this tale the Beast is a white bear (a polar bear?) at day, and after beauty has broken the rules - i.e. has looked at him in the night - she has indeed to go to the end of the earth. In Amor and Psyche - as far as I remember - it is Venus who has set up the rules and who punishes.

Espen

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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09:51 13.02.2003 -0700 skrev John Williams:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
>> What's the duct tape for you might be wondering. Well, it's to be used to
>> hermetically seal yourself off in a room of your house. This will protect
>> you from exposure should a dirty bomb be detonated in your general vicinity.
>
>    The only people buying duct tape and who would actually do this would be the
>same ones not considering minor details like breathing, so you could just
>consider the whole thing to be an adhesive Darwin Award.

And after the terrorists have infiltrated the US government enough to have lots of people buying duct tape they will let loose a rumour that a 'dirty bomb' is going to explode.

Espen

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Subject: 
From: "jolly001@www.com" <jolly001@www.com>
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Dear Sir,

This letter may come to you as a surprise due to the fact that we
have not yet met,but it shouldn't,since we are determined to get what
rightly belongs to us anyhow,but soon when every thing goes according to
plan.The message could be strange but reality will definitely dawn on you,
if you pay some attention to it's content. I wouldn't have notified you
but for the sake of your integrity and goodwill.Please accept my sincere
apologies.In bringing this message  to you, I have to say that I have no
intentions of causing you any personal pains or discomfort.I am Jolly Savimbi, son of the late rebel leader Jonas Savimbi
of Angola who was killed on the 22nd of february 2002.We are esperately
looking for a trustworthy person to assist us in this confidential
business.My late father, Jonas Savimbi  deposited  huge sums of money
realised from the sale of diamonds and other precious stones /metals in
different banks in Europe. My father is presently no more, and the
movement of his family members (including me) is highly restricted. We are
forbidden to either travel abroad or out of our immediate localities.Presently, the money realised from those sails amounting to
US$28,500,000.00 ( TWENTY EIGHT MILLION,FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND
DOLLARS),which my father realised was transfered  to Netherlands is safe
in a security firm over there.Before you can get access to it you have to
be given the password and the Personal indentification numbers (PIN No:)
of the consignment deposited.I am  ! ;therefore soliciting your help to have this money collected by you and
transfered into your account,as wewould give you the neccesary
documentations to facilitate your collection of the consignment personally
in Amsterdam, before the government gets wind of this arrangement.You know
my father was a rebel leader in his life time before his death.My reason
for doing this is because it will be difficult for the  Angolan Government
to trace my father's money toan individual's account,especially when such an individual bears no
blood relationship with us ,I have decided to keep that money for my
family's use.
Presently the money is still in that Security Company in the
Netherlands. I am currently and temporarily living in Luanda with my
family seeking for my refugee status,moreover the political climate in
Angola at the moment is very tense,sensitive and unstable.With this
password and informations that we will give you,together with the Power of
Attorney,you! will then proceed to the security firm,and these will
facilitate your collection of the consignment. You have to proceed
personally to Netherlands where after fulfiling their requirements
US$28,500,000.00 will be released to you in the two large trunk boxes that
it was deposited in,after which we may likely ask you to come over with
some money for us to run away from here at least for now into one of these
European countries. You can have the fund  transferred into any account
that suits you after your personal collection of the consignment,until
further instructions are given.PLEASE  YOUR CONFIDENTIALITY IN THIS TRANSACTION IS HIGHLY REQUIRED.
confidentialMILLION,FIVE HUNDREDhave this money collected by you and
transfered into your account,as
Thank you very much for your time and understanding.

Yours sincere

Jolly savimbi.


---------------------------------------------------
WWW.COM - Where The Web Begins! http://www.www.com/

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23:24 13.02.2003 -0600 skrev Doris Markland:
>> Marie Ascher wrote:
>>
>> > >I wasn't talking about things of over a hundred years ago.
>> >
>> > Le Pen.
>>
>> And he proves that France is anti-Semitic?
>>
>> --
>>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>As I walked through the TV room this afternoon
>I heard some <pundits> talking about the buildup
>of anti-semitism in Europe and particularly in France.
>One of them said that part of the hatred being
>directed toward us by Europeans was because of
>our friendship with Israel.  Or something like that.
>I have no idea who they were.

Yes - and the Europeans instead wish to be friends with the anti-semitic Arabs.

Espen

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Doris Markland wrote:

> As I walked through the TV room this afternoon
> I heard some <pundits> talking about the buildup
> of anti-semitism in Europe and particularly in France.
> One of them said that part of the hatred being
> directed toward us by Europeans was because of
> our friendship with Israel.  Or something like that.
> I have no idea who they were.

Oh yes.  That is something that's been in the news over the past couple
of years.  I thought I had mentioned that.

Certainly the US prejudice re the Middle East isn't shared by people in
most other places and is a major cause of today's problems.  That's why
I was asking that question yesterday about anti-Semitism and exactly
what it is.  I think Sharon is a disaster and that the US has no
business supporting Israeli terrorism (nor Palestinian terrorism, of
course).  Does that make me anti-Semitic?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 06:01:07 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> I guess to me it read like one of the McCoy
> teens writing to the Hatfields to tell them all
> his gripes about the McCoys.

Seems to me it's more about saying "We (some of) the people do not share
the views of our Cowboy Pres and his gang."  I think that's an important
message to convey to as many people as possible.

> I am against war and against this war but I
> don't think this document will help the
> situation and may even do harm.

I'm not optimistic that it will be of any significant help, but how
could it do harm?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 06:09:11 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Doris Markland wrote:
>
> > As I walked through the TV room this afternoon
> > I heard some <pundits> talking about the buildup
> > of anti-semitism in Europe and particularly in France.
> > One of them said that part of the hatred being
> > directed toward us by Europeans was because of
> > our friendship with Israel.  Or something like that.
> > I have no idea who they were.
>
> Oh yes.  That is something that's been in the news over the past couple
> of years.  I thought I had mentioned that.

I should have broken up the reply.  My "Oh yes" paragraph goes with your
first sentence -- the one about the buildup of anti-semitism in Europe.
The other paragraph goes with the Israeli-Palestinian situation.
>
> Certainly the US prejudice re the Middle East isn't shared by people in
> most other places and is a major cause of today's problems.  That's why
> I was asking that question yesterday about anti-Semitism and exactly
> what it is.  I think Sharon is a disaster and that the US has no
> business supporting Israeli terrorism (nor Palestinian terrorism, of
> course).  Does that make me anti-Semitic?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 06:17:11 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: IMFTATL:  Digi Cameras
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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        Thank you for the suggestions.  I finally bought them an
Olympus with 2.0 megapixels, 5x zoom, and the capability of
recording 60 seconds of film.  Seemed a good deal at $179.
Maybe I should get myself one :).  At any rate, now they can
take photos of all the newborns.  My sister is going
pre-eclampsia again (I'm not sure why she bothers to be
surprised), so they'll be inducing her in the next couple of
days.

Betty wrote:

> At 07:51 AM 2/1/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
>> Rita Chapman wrote:
>> >
>> > I'm thinking that a digital camera might be a nice thing for
>> > Dad's birthday.  Mom has never really figured out how to
>> > scan photos, and they could take it on their Harley
>> > adventures. It would have to be much better than my horrible
>> > camera (HP Photosmart), but not that fancy, and reasonably
>> > priced.
>> >
>> > Any recommendations?
>>
>> I am quite happy with mine.  Let me look and see what it is....
>> Ok, it's a Canon Powershot A20.  I don't remember what it cost.  It was
>> not the cheapest of cheap, but it wasn't anywhere near the high end.  It
>> was not far above the low end.  I also highly recommend my Zio card
>> reader.  Having to upload the pictures directly from camera to computer
>> was a bother and sucked the power from the battery in giant gulps.
>
>
> Definitely need a card reader!
>
> A couple of sites:
>
> http://imaging-resource.com/DIGCAM01.HTM
>
> http://www.cnet.com/internet/0-3811-7-7230083.html
>
> There is always e-bay, too.
>
> Betty
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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>Seems to me it's more about saying "We (some of) the people do not share
>the views of our Cowboy Pres and his gang."  I think that's an important
>message to convey to as many people as possible.

I would think most peoples of the world would then wonder why the hell we
are writing letters instead of assassinating the Cowboy or overthrowing him
or kicking him out of office.

>I'm not optimistic that it will be of any significant help, but how
>could it do harm?    -- Natalie

Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will forsake
the war and pull their troops out.  We don't have much to fear from the
US.  No need to disarm.  No need to support the US in the UN.  No  need to
do a thing because their own people will take care of the Cowboy Pres.


    --bonniev

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>I vastly prefer Jean Cocteau's film version, "La Belle et la Bete." Great
>shot of ascending a staircase where it's revealed the sconces holding the
>candles are
>actually human hands which adjust the lighting in slow domino tandem.


>I've heard that it's wonderful but have never had a chance to see it.
>(Greta Garbo is reported to have said afterwards, "Give me back my
>Beast" -- my kind of girl.) I'll have to see if I can find it on
>video or DVD.


>Janet

It's certainly out there through facets.com or other favorite purveyor. I
got it from the foreign-language resource center of the district where I
taught high school.

And I'm with Greta. Sometimes it may be that one may wish for more
beast-like behavior in an <object of desire>.

AS

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 07:28:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> I would think most peoples of the world would then wonder why the hell we
> are writing letters instead of assassinating the Cowboy or overthrowing him
> or kicking him out of office.

They might wonder that, but we are showing how things work in this
country.  We have freedom of speech and do not have to be lockstep in
our views, but we don't have freedom of murder.  As for overthrowing and
kicking out, we follow our system and can take care of that on election
day.

> >I'm not optimistic that it will be of any significant help, but how
> >could it do harm?    -- Natalie
>
> Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
> letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
> are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will forsake
> the war and pull their troops out.  We don't have much to fear from the
> US.  No need to disarm.  No need to support the US in the UN.  No  need to
> do a thing because their own people will take care of the Cowboy Pres.

Interesting thought.  I'd certainly rather take that risk, however, than
sit silently while my country starts a war.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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At 04:44 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > >Have you compared the results with the standard deduction?  The standard
> > >deduction assumes you've made average contributions for the year.  One
> > >large one might equal that average.
> > No, I haven't done that. I didn't know to do that. The first year I file
> > itemized was because I donated my car which counted as a $1500 donation.
> > Last year I filed itemized for other reasons but it included a $250
> > donation. This year's donation was $500.
>
>That $1500 donation would probably make itemizing better, but $500 or
>below wouldn't.  Which way is better depends on other things also, of
>course, but not having a mortgage would mean you'd have to come up with
>lots of other things to make itemizing worth it.  The standard deduction
>assumes that you to have the average deductions of itemizers.
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Ok well how about this.. doing the itemized in order to record my donation
makes me feel better.

lisa

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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At 04:44 PM 2/13/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > >Have you compared the results with the standard deduction?  The standard
> > >deduction assumes you've made average contributions for the year.  One
> > >large one might equal that average.
> > No, I haven't done that. I didn't know to do that. The first year I file
> > itemized was because I donated my car which counted as a $1500 donation.
> > Last year I filed itemized for other reasons but it included a $250
> > donation. This year's donation was $500.
>
>That $1500 donation would probably make itemizing better, but $500 or
>below wouldn't.  Which way is better depends on other things also, of
>course, but not having a mortgage would mean you'd have to come up with
>lots of other things to make itemizing worth it.  The standard deduction
>assumes that you to have the average deductions of itemizers.
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Oh and I should add, that I do sincerely appreciate the information. I'll
definitely consider it for next year.

lisa

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:27:21 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>And he proves that France is anti-Semitic?

I never claimed to have any such proof, and I never claimed the whole
country was anti-semitic. I said that Bruce and many other American Jews are
boycotting French products because of the country's anti-semitic tendencies.
Anti-American as well, and historically and presently so.

http://www.boycottfrance.com/history_french_anti_semitism.php
http://www.ajcongress.org/woodyallen.htm

I'm not saying that it is absolutely <correct>, but I'm not Jewish and
you're not Jewish, so we haven't experienced what it is like to be
persecuted as such.

In any case, I think California produces at least as good wine. And I don't
need their stinkin cheese.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:52:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 2:40:52 AM, you wrote:
> In the most known Norwegian version of this tale the Beast is a
> white bear (a polar bear?) at day, and after beauty has broken
> the rules - i.e. has looked at him in the night - she has
> indeed to go to the end of the earth.

I know I've read this--can you tell me their names, please? (My
favorite section in the library used to be the folk tales
section.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 08:57:09 2003
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From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:55:25 +0100
Subject: Questions for Alyce
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Hi Alyce,

I wonder if your webpages are not really working:

http://www.alybooks.com/

I only recieve a blank page with some scripts hidden behind it.

But my question today really is: do you know this firm:

PSC
11 Main Street
Germantown, NY 12526 USA
Tel.   518-537-4700     Fax.   518-537-5899
E-mail:  psc@backsets.com

They are quoting aprice for a copy of the Annual from the British Scool at Athens from 1925 which seems rather high ($100 + $25 for postage) even if they have to make a copy/reprint. Have you heard about them (since they are near you)?

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 08:57:18 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:55:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 6:53:12 AM, you wrote:
> Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
> letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
> are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will forsake
> the war and pull their troops out.

I was really interested to watch the whole 'depletion report' thing on
WW.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 09:03:18 2003
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08:52 14.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Friday, February 14, 2003, 2:40:52 AM, you wrote:
>> In the most known Norwegian version of this tale the Beast is a
>> white bear (a polar bear?) at day, and after beauty has broken
>> the rules - i.e. has looked at him in the night - she has
>> indeed to go to the end of the earth.
>
>I know I've read this--can you tell me their names, please? (My
>favorite section in the library used to be the folk tales
>section.

The tale is called "Hvitebjørn kong Valemon" (King Valemon, the white bear) in the standard Norwegian edition. Beauty (here there are actually three girls, and the third is the only one who foloows through and finds her king) is not named.

Esepen

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:04:06 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 9:01:37 AM, you wrote:

> 08:52 14.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>>Friday, February 14, 2003, 2:40:52 AM, you wrote:
>>> In the most known Norwegian version of this tale the Beast is a
>>> white bear (a polar bear?) at day, and after beauty has broken
>>> the rules - i.e. has looked at him in the night - she has
>>> indeed to go to the end of the earth.
>>
>>I know I've read this--can you tell me their names, please? (My
>>favorite section in the library used to be the folk tales
>>section.

> The tale is called "Hvitebjørn kong Valemon" (King Valemon, the white bear) in the standard Norwegian edition. Beauty (here there are actually three girls, and the third is the only one who foloows
> through and finds her king) is not named.

Valemon!

Yes, I read this story a long, long time ago. For some reason, I
liked the bear rather than just a Beast.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 09:07:41 2003
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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 06:19 PM 2/13/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Natalie Maynor wrote:
> >
> > I've never thought of France as anti-semitic.
>
>Dreyfus.
>
>alyce

Ignorance alert!

What's Dreyfus?

lisa

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Espen Ore writes,

>The tale is called "Hvitebjørn kong Valemon" (King Valemon, the white bear)

So, if you cross-reference (search for the intersection of) <Beast Valemon>
in Google, you get:

Tales Similar To East of the Sun & West of the Moon
http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/eastsunwestmoon/other.html

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 09:25:54 2003
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At 09:18 AM 2/14/2003 -0500, lisa wrote:

>Ignorance alert!
>
>What's Dreyfus?

Not what, who.  The URL below gives a good (and brief)
chronology.  Basically, Dreyfus was a French army officer---the only Jewish
officer on the general staff.  He was accused and convicted of treason on
the basis of manufactured evidence, vilified in the press, etc.


http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/beyond-the-pale/english/26.html

cwv

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:25:35 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Espen,

Eek! Thanks for letting me know about my web page. I had no idea that it
has disappeared.

I do not know the people at 11 Main Street personally, but I do know
that they have been there for some time (at least five years, maybe
longer). I have seen them at the post office sending and receiving large
quantities of book packages. They are said to be suppliers to libraries
primarily. I have no idea about why the price is so high for what you
want, but I will say that they appear to be a legitimate business and
not a "fly-by-night" company.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 09:28:19 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:26:47 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 9:20:01 AM, you wrote:

> Espen Ore writes,

>>The tale is called "Hvitebjørn kong Valemon" (King Valemon, the white bear)

> So, if you cross-reference (search for the intersection of) <Beast Valemon>
> in Google, you get:

> Tales Similar To East of the Sun & West of the Moon
> http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/eastsunwestmoon/other.html

Ooh ooh! More fun! Thanks.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:26:49 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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PS: Maybe you could get them to deliver it to me and I could send it to
you for less than $25 postage? That seems a high price unless it is a
very heavy thing.

alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 09:45:30 2003
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It's interesting to read also a

History of Beauty and the Beast
http://www.surlalunefairytales.com/beautybeast/history.html

Pete

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:41:25 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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No comments?

I liked the term 'sausage fest'.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:04:34 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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>Doris Markland wrote:
>
>>  I guess to me it read like one of the McCoy
>>  teens writing to the Hatfields to tell them all
>>  his gripes about the McCoys.
>
>Seems to me it's more about saying "We (some of) the people do not share
>the views of our Cowboy Pres and his gang."  I think that's an important
>message to convey to as many people as possible.

I got this from my mother this morning -- it cracked me up:

Dear friends,

Thinking I was sending a statement of my opinion to the White House
last week, I incurred the following response.  Thought you'd enjoy it
as much as I.


>>>  FROM THE WHITEHOUSE.ORG ELECTRONIC MAILROOM <<<

Dear Friend,

Thank you for taking the time to compose an electronic message to
WHITEHOUSE.ORG.

As you may or may not know, the snowballing recession President Bush
inherited from the previous administration of gonorrhea-infested tax
& spend sex maniacs has made it tragically necessary for us to lay
off upwards of 90% of the wonderful young people who served so
chastely as WHITEHOUSE.ORG interns.  As such, George himself has
asked that I do my part for the war effort by spending a portion of
my days here, in the sour-smelling, fluorescent-lighted West Wing
e-mail pool.

Sadly, due to the volume of e-mail we receive, I regret that neither
I nor anyone else will ever actually read your message.  That is why
it is my most sincere hope that this cheap form letter will create
the illusion that we care about your opinion.

Yours, in Christ,

- Mrs. George W. Bush ("Laura")


o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o
Mrs. George W. Bush
First Lady of the United States
E-mail: first.lady@whitehouse.org
Internet: http://www.whitehouse.org
"Being first lady is the hardest unpaid job in the world."
- Pat Nixon
o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o-o

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 1:42:49 AM, Espen.Ore@NB.NO writes:

<< And after the terrorists have infiltrated the US government enough to have
lots of people buying duct tape they will let loose a rumour that a 'dirty
bomb' is going to explode.
 >>

ROFL Espen! :-)
  I think you're on to something there! Theo

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:27:54 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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>In a message dated 2/14/2003 1:42:49 AM, Espen.Ore@NB.NO writes:
>
><< And after the terrorists have infiltrated the US government enough to have
>lots of people buying duct tape they will let loose a rumour that a 'dirty
>bomb' is going to explode.
>

Hmmm. I wonder if I could get them to announce that it's very
important in case of a terrorist attack to be well stocked with sex
books ;)

Actually, that might be a press release <evil, thoughtful grin>...

Janet

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: My lame web site has been updated.
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:31:32 -0500
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Feel free to check it out.



  ------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/
''If we make peaceful revolution impossible, we make violent revolution
inevitable.'' - John F. Kennedy

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On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, Peter Kaminski wrote:
> >With friends like these, who needs enemies.
> What's wrong with 'em?

Yeesh.  Take another look at that ponderous second sentence.

--
Style Over Substance Boy                 15, 18

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:47:35 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
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On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:27:21 -0500, Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM>
wrote:

>>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>>And he proves that France is anti-Semitic?
>
>I never claimed to have any such proof, and I never claimed the whole
>country was anti-semitic. I said that Bruce and many other American Jews are
>boycotting French products because of the country's anti-semitic tendencies.
>Anti-American as well, and historically and presently so.
>
>http://www.boycottfrance.com/history_french_anti_semitism.php
>http://www.ajcongress.org/woodyallen.htm

Hmmm, I think I may have vaguely heard a bit about Ed Koch or something.
Maybe.  Any alleged boycott of France certainly hasn't penetrated *my*
Jewish circles.  Au contraire, for the last day or so I've been trying to
browse www.fromages.com, in the hope that the xenophobic fans of Dubya have
caused the price of brie and camembert to drop.  Unfortunately, the site was
subjected to a denial-of-service attack.

>I'm not saying that it is absolutely <correct>, but I'm not Jewish and
>you're not Jewish, so we haven't experienced what it is like to be
>persecuted as such.

Look, there are anti-semites in France, without question, as there are in
every single country of the world.  There are anti-semitic political parties
in France, and they draw large numbers of votes in elections.  But does that
mean that the national character (whatever that means) is anti-semitic?  I
don't think so.

More to the point, Koch's letter to Woody Allen was written almost a year
ago (it's dated May 17, 2002, to be precise).  Its influence on American
lives was extremely close to zero at the time.  But now, amidst the loud
thumping of the drums of war, when France stands its diplomatic ground
against the rabid pronouncements and overzealous propaganda fomented by the
childish and petulant simpleton currently installed in the seat of American
power, *now* Koch's letter resurfaces as some sort of justification for
"retaliation" against that nation.

Is America anti-gallic?

>From the way Bush, Ashcroft, and their fellow fundamentalists talk about the
wrath of Jesus and (their version of) Christian salvation as the one and
only right way to any kind of positive afterlife, I'd say that *their*
message is pointedly anti-Jewish.

For the record, in my half-century on earth I have never been cognizant of
any negativity toward me based on my religion.  That's not to say that none
has been intended or acted upon, only that I haven't perceived any.

>In any case, I think California produces at least as good wine. And I don't
>need their stinkin cheese.
>
>Marie

All true, but beside the point.  I, for one, *want* their stinkin cheese,
just as I *want* their diplomacy to carry enough weight to forestall Dubya.

neal

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:00:24 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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BTW, a recent posting on the American Jewish Committee's website urges
closer association with France and its Jewish community, *not* boycott.

http://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/RelatedArticles.asp?did=748

As best I can tell, "American Jewish Congress" -- the basis for the Koch
letter -- is not a mainstream Jewish organization, though the name can of
course be easily confused with *American Jewish Committee*.  Their 2002
annual convention, which took place two days after the date of the Koch
letter, featured Newt Gingrich as a major speaker.

http://www.ajcongress.org/annual_meeting_convention_2002.htm

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:30:55 -0500
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>From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
>BTW, a recent posting on the American Jewish Committee's website urges
>closer association with France and its Jewish community, *not* boycott.
>
>http://www.ajc.org/InTheMedia/RelatedArticles.asp?did=748

Very PC.

I think the boycott is more an emotional than intellectual response, to be
sure.

Marie

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:37:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Marie Ascher wrote:
[something that reminded me of this question:]

There's a local brouhaha about Rabbi Michael Lerner not being welcome at
Sunday's anti-war demonstration in San Francisco.

Are East Coasters hearing about this?

Ann

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:45:51 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 08:37:20 -0800, Ann Borkin <aborkin@RAHUL.NET> wrote:

>On Fri, 14 Feb 2003, Marie Ascher wrote:
>[something that reminded me of this question:]
>
>There's a local brouhaha about Rabbi Michael Lerner not being welcome at
>Sunday's anti-war demonstration in San Francisco.
>
>Are East Coasters hearing about this?
>
>Ann

Don't know about the East Coast per se, but it's certainly known in the
world of antiwar blogs.

International ANSWER, which is behind the un-invitation, needs to be shoved
into the background; it's easy for the other side to use their ties to the
dregs of old and discredited political movements to stain the real values of
our side.  ANSWER's organizational skills were of some value in getting
things moving, but we're far bigger than that now.

neal

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:43:41 -0500
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>No comments?
>
>I liked the term 'sausage fest'.
>Karen

Amazing that not one of eight women could figure out that kerosene would
help start a fire.  Five hours of scratching a flint near a dry leaf! Jeez.


    --bonniev

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:48:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 10:43:41 AM, you wrote:
> Amazing that not one of eight women could figure out that kerosene would
> help start a fire.  Five hours of scratching a flint near a dry leaf! Jeez.

I know. They sort of made me want to grow a sausage of my own.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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lisa alfieri wrote:

> Ok well how about this.. doing the itemized in order to record my donation
> makes me feel better.

I wasn't arguing that you should not itemize.  If it feels good, do it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Marie Ascher wrote:

>  I said that Bruce and many other American Jews are
> boycotting French products because of the country's anti-semitic tendencies.

Doesn't France have one of the largest Jewish populations in the world?
Are they also boycotting French products?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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lisa alfieri wrote:

> What's Dreyfus?

He was a Jewish army officer in France in the late nineteenth century
who became a political prisoner.  Definitely an anti-semitic situation.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 10:28:52 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:
> >
> What's Dreyfus?

Quick summary:
http://www.friends-partners.org/partners/beyond-the-pale/english/25.html

alyce

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>
> What's Dreyfus?


a little less than a meter?


BrP



>
> lisa

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:00:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 10:57:52 AM, you wrote:

>>
>> What's Dreyfus?


> a little less than a meter?

My, that's a rather LARGE sausage!


Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:01:41 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Neal Traven wrote:

>   I, for one, *want* their stinkin cheese,
> just as I *want* their diplomacy to carry enough weight to forestall Dubya.

Me too.  I read a statement somewhere saying that France should be
ashamed for not supporting Dubya's war after the US liberated them in
WWII.  I find that logic absurd.  The French are supposed to
foreverafter be in support of whatever the US chooses to do, even
something immoral or idiotic?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Paul R. Barfoot writes,

>a little less than a meter?

LOL! :)

Pete

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At 11:57 AM 2/14/2003 -0500, BrP wrote:
> >
> > What's Dreyfus?
>
>
>a little less than a meter?

Very good.

cwv,
remembering the dry martini joke

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 11:13:24 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Supposedly these were seen at a recent peace rally in Australia.  Some
of them are pretty good:

>Drunken frat boy drives country into ditch.
>Who would Jesus bomb?
>War begins with 'Dubya'.
>Bush is proof that empty warheads can be dangerous.
>Let's bomb Texas, they have oil too.
>How did our oil get under their sand?
>If you can't pronounce it, don't bomb it.
>Daddy, can I start the war now?
>1000 points of light and one dim bulb.
>Sacrifice our SUV's, not our children.
>Preemptive impeachment.
>No George, I said Mac Attack.                                            >Frodo has failed, Bush has the ring.
>He is a moron and a bully.
>War is sweet to those who haven't tasted it (Erasmus).
>You don't have to like Bush to love America.
>Bushes are for pissing on.
>Bush-Cheney-Rumsfeld: the asses of evil.
>$1 billion a day to kill people -- what a bargain.
>What's the difference between me & God? He might forgive Bush, but I      won't.
>America, get out of the Bushes.
>It's time to trim the Bush.                                              >Disarm Bush too.
>Big brother isn't coming -- he's already here.
>Empires fall.
>An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind (Gandhi).
>Impeach the squatters.
>There's a terrorist behind every Bush.
>SUV owners roll over for terrorism.
>War is so 20th century!
>9-11-01: 15 Saudis, 0 Iraqis.
>While you were watching the war, Bush was raping America.
>Drop Bush not bombs.
>Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.
>Bush is to Christianity as Osama is to Islam.
>I asked for universal health care and all I got was this lousy stealth    bomber.
>War is not a family value.
>A picture of Bush saying "Why should I care what the American people      think?  They didn't vote for me."
>A picture of Bush saying "Ask me about my lobotomy."
>Beneath a picture of Osama bin Laden dressed as Uncle Sam: I want YOU     to bomb Iraq.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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 From the Washington march: <http://indymedia.no/news/2003/02/5115.php> or

Includes "2 sided poster, one side has a picture of a chubby feline, with
the words: GOOD FAT CAT other side has a picture of Cheney, with the words:
BAD FAT CAT".

Pete

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 09:36:05 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: My lame web site has been updated.
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>http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/

Does anybody besides me keep looking at "plotkina" and somehow
associate it with the same construction used in "La Borkina"?

Janet

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 4:57:13 AM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< that the US has no
business supporting Israeli terrorism (nor Palestinian terrorism, of
course).  Does that make me anti-Semitic? >>

I agree, and I'm in no way anti anybody if that counts for anything.
                                              Theo

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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It is pretty lame, but your wife's cute.

BTW, I love the Logan Square fountain. When I lived in the Art Museum area
of the city I walked by it most days, often taking a seat and enjoying the
spray of the water.

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com


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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Cc: "'Word-Friends'" <word-friends@pobox.upenn.edu>
Subject: CYA at work.
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:46:50 -0500
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Covering asses everywhere.


>February 13, 2003
>
>Dear Members of the Penn community:
>
>Earlier this week the Department of Homeland Security raised
>the terrorist
>threat level from "elevated" to "high."  This action, and the extensive
>media coverage of it, has left us understandably concerned about what
>might happen should an act of terrorism affect us here at
>Penn. Although
>we have no information that would lead us to believe that our
>region might
>be the target of such an attack, please be assured that the
>University has
>taken every step possible to ensure your well being on campus
>in case of
>an emergency.
>
>We have in place a comprehensive university-wide emergency plan that is
>closely coordinated with those of city, state and federal agencies. Our
>public safety personnel, and our University of Pennsylvania
>Health System
>doctors, have received thorough training in how to respond to incidents
>involving chemical or biological agents, and they work closely
>with city
>and state emergency management agencies to stay abreast of
>information and
>to coordinate responses in the event of an attack.
>
>The nature of terrorism is such that we cannot say for certain when,
>where, or even if, an attack might occur. The best we can do is remain
>vigilant for suspicious activity and prepare to keep
>functioning should an
>attack takes place. The University's emergency information web site at
>http://www.upenn.edu/pennnews/emergency_preparedness.html
>provides phone
>numbers, web links and other details that may be of use should a real
>emergency occur. It will be updated continuously as new information
>becomes available.  In the meantime, rest assured that we are
>taking every
>step necessary to protect your health and well being as a member of the
>Penn community.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Judith Rodin, President
>Robert Barchi, Provost
>Clifford L. Stanley, Executive Vice President
>

>

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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Supposedly these were seen at a recent peace rally in Australia.  Some
> of them are pretty good:

    And if these "useful idiots" and fellow-travelers weren't so busy helping turn the possibility of war into a
virtual certainty their naive bumper-sticker-IQ foreign policy would be hilarious.  I don't suppose these wannabe
Quislings realize that we can see the dead giveaway in their signage?

JMW

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Anti-Semitism
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:00:29 -0500
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>
>What exactly *is* anti-Semitism?  (Leaving aside the nitpicky point
>about who all is included as Semitic), I had always thought of
>anti-Semitism as being prejudice against people who were
>Jewish.  Out of
>curiosity about France and anti-Semitism, I just googled for something
>like 'france anti-semitism' and started reading stuff about
>the supposed
>recent rise in anti-Semitic feelings in France, even though I was aware
>of that trend in Europe and wasn't really googling to find out anything
>about it.  What struck me as interesting, however, was the
>mixing within
>single paragraphs  of being against Israel's policies/behavior
>and being
>anti-Semitic -- as if those were the same thing.  Are they?
>
>--
> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

For me it is one of those things, you must be Jewish to feel. Walking around
Germany and France, I saw graffitii and many skinheads. Neo-Naziism is on
the rise. Hating Jews and Israel are basically the same, Israel is a Jewish
state.


alec

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:02:33 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>Doesn't France have one of the largest Jewish populations in the world?

600,000 Jews, 4 million Arabs.

>Are they also boycotting French products?

I don't think so. They wouldn't want to stir things up.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 12:11:14 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:09:50 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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My housemate has got me reading http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/ .

This has probably been mentioned on <this service> before, but as
things heat up, I ind it more fascinating.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Message-ID: <20030214181455.GA6367@pobox.com>
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02003-02-14 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Certainly the US prejudice re the Middle East isn't shared by people in
> most other places and is a major cause of today's problems.  That's why
> I was asking that question yesterday about anti-Semitism and exactly
> what it is.  I think Sharon is a disaster and that the US has no
> business supporting Israeli terrorism (nor Palestinian terrorism, of
> course).  Does that make me anti-Semitic?

BO-RING!

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 5:54:32 AM, bonniev@PANAX.COM writes:

<<
Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will forsake
the war and pull their troops out.  We don't have much to fear from the
US.  No need to disarm.  No need to support the US in the UN.  No  need to
do a thing because their own people will take care of the Cowboy Pres.

 It isn't hatred, but simply misunderstanding why the USA keeps getting
involved in other countries' business. I can just imagine what would happen
if some country decided to demand of the USA that it could not possess any
weapons of any kind.
Can you imagine what our reaction would be? I don't believe that any country
is out to cause us harm, as long as we don't interfere in THEIR plans.
But of course that makes me look as if I were anti American, which I'm not in
any way; just stating my opinion of what other countries are thinking about
these recent goings on in this so-called *war against terrorism* in the USA.
 Theo

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Message-ID: <20030214181812.GB6367@pobox.com>
References: <F154TINkOlSvnZScrJb00007418@hotmail.com>
            <5.1.0.14.0.20030213171554.0289ddb0@mail.istori.com>
            <5.1.0.14.0.20030213220129.02af1cc0@mail.istori.com>
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02003-02-14 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
> I would think most peoples of the world would then wonder why the hell we
> are writing letters instead of assassinating the Cowboy or overthrowing him
> or kicking him out of office.

That's why I have always said there should be philosophy departments
in the rest of the world, then they wouldn't have one-track minds.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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02003-02-14 | Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU> writes:
> Look, there are anti-semites in France, without question, as there are in
> every single country of the world.

India has never had a case of Jewish persecution ,..

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:21:29 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Cannot figure out where it went, but it is back now.
http://www.alybooks.com
I wonder how long it was gone. It was up at Christmas, I know, because
Doug was working on it, but after that, who knows?

alyce

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 9:58:31 AM, prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU writes:

<< > What's Dreyfus?


a little less than a meter?

 >>

No, it's the opposite of wet fuss, didn't you know? Theo

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: My lame web site has been updated.
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02003-02-14 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/
>
> Does anybody besides me keep looking at "plotkina" and somehow
> associate it with the same construction used in "La Borkina"?

No.

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 10:04:51 AM, verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<< Sadly, due to the volume of e-mail we receive, I regret that neither

I nor anyone else will ever actually read your message.  That is why

it is my most sincere hope that this cheap form letter will create

the illusion that we care about your opinion.


Yours, in Christ,


- Mrs. George W. Bush ("Laura")

 >>

Gagging, Theo

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 11:00:40 AM, plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU writes:

<<  What struck me as interesting, however, was the
>mixing within
>single paragraphs  of being against Israel's policies/behavior
>and being
>anti-Semitic -- as if those were the same thing.  Are they?
> >>

Of course not, but then I'm just an ignurrent furrener, so how would I know?
Theo

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <40237389377.20030214120950@WordWrite.com>           
            <009d01c2d457$c3c4e7e0$460332d1@0018079268> 
            <33238926257.20030214123527@WordWrite.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: Speaking of war...
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:43:53 -0600
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> Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:34:45 PM, you wrote:
> > Wow.  That's the smallest print
> > I have ever (not seen) on the net.
>
> Hm. I don't have a problem reading it. But at least you can make
> it larger in Netscape. The Seeds of Change website really pissed
> me off because I can't read it and I can't make it bigger.
>
> http://www.seedsofchange.com (best viewed in IE)
>
> Karen,
> Just a tool of love

I'm having cataract surgery in April
and then I'll see better, hopefully.

                  - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 12:50:24 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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>
> >>
> >> What's Dreyfus?
>
>
> > a little less than a meter?
>
> My, that's a rather LARGE sausage!


All men are liars.

BrP


>
>
> Karen,
> Just a tool of love

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Speaking of war...
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:34:45 -0600
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> My housemate has got me reading http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/ .
>
> This has probably been mentioned on <this service> before, but as
> things heat up, I ind it more fascinating.
>
> Karen
> "One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only
yesterday."
>    -Eeyore

Wow.  That's the smallest print
I have ever (not seen) on the net.

            - D. M.

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:35:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:34:45 PM, you wrote:
> Wow.  That's the smallest print
> I have ever (not seen) on the net.

Hm. I don't have a problem reading it. But at least you can make
it larger in Netscape. The Seeds of Change website really pissed
me off because I can't read it and I can't make it bigger.

http://www.seedsofchange.com (best viewed in IE)

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 13:04:04 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: My lame web site has been updated.
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:02:34 -0500
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>It is pretty lame, but your wife's cute.
>
>BTW, I love the Logan Square fountain. When I lived in the Art
>Museum area
>of the city I walked by it most days, often taking a seat and
>enjoying the
>spray of the water.
>
>Marie
>   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com
>


Thanks,

I love the Logan Square area. During the summer, kids play in the fountain.


alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 13:06:23 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:05:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Is this for real?
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:48:12 PM, you wrote:
>> >>
>> >> What's Dreyfus?
>>
>>
>> > a little less than a meter?
>>
>> My, that's a rather LARGE sausage!


> All men are liars.

But some of them do have larger sausages than others.

Karen
Sausage Inspector

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 13:13:17 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:17:07 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: from another list
Message-ID: <20030214201707.A7470@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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In-Reply-To: <a05200f02ba7218d3d8c8@[67.118.125.98]>; from verdie@EARTHLINK.NET
             on Thu, Feb 13, 2003 at 08:04:17PM -0800
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You know, usually when people write LOL, I just have given it a
little chuckle.  But this one really did have me laughing out
loud.

Janet Hardy:
= "A new study in Wisconsin showed that the type of male face a woman finds
= attractive can differ depending on where a woman is in her menstrual
= cycle.
=
= For instance, if she is ovulating, she is more attracted to men with
= rugged and masculine features.
=
= And if she is menstruating, she is more prone to be attracted to a man
= with scissors shoved in his temple and a bat rammed up his ass while he
= is on fire."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 13:35:59 2003
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In a message dated 2/14/2003 12:12:01 PM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:

<< You know, usually when people write LOL, I just have given it a
little chuckle.  But this one really did have me laughing out
loud.
 >>

You and me both :-)
    Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 13:35:59 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 01:05 PM 2/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:48:12 PM, you wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> What's Dreyfus?
> >>
> >>
> >> > a little less than a meter?
> >>
> >> My, that's a rather LARGE sausage!
>
>
> > All men are liars.
>
>But some of them do have larger sausages than others.
>
>Karen
>Sausage Inspector

Cite?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 13:35:59 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:27:46 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:02:33 -0500, Marie Ascher
<lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:

>>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>>Doesn't France have one of the largest Jewish populations in the world?
>
>600,000 Jews, 4 million Arabs.

Only two nations in the world have larger Jewish population totals than
France -- the United States and Israel.  There used to be more in the
former Soviet Union, but the combination of breakup and emigration changed
that.

The number of Arabs (not the same thing as Muslims, of course) is not
germane.

neal

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:42:34 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Speaking of war...
Message-ID: <20030214204234.C7470@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Fri, Feb 14, 2003 at 12:35:27PM -0600
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Karen Kay:
= Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:34:45 PM, you wrote:
= > Wow.  That's the smallest print
= > I have ever (not seen) on the net.
=
= Hm. I don't have a problem reading it. But at least you can make
= it larger in Netscape. The Seeds of Change website really pissed
= me off because I can't read it and I can't make it bigger.
=
= http://www.seedsofchange.com (best viewed in IE)
=

Hmm.  Mozilla didn't have any trouble making it bigger.  You must
upgrade!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 14:06:58 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:05:17 EST
Subject: Re: Jeb Bush, another forward thinker
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In a message dated 2/14/2003 12:54:18 PM, cwv@PANAX.COM writes:

<< He probably thinks just like his brother---all one needs is the (King
James) bible and someone to read the big words to you.
 >>

Now that would definitely be worth a ROFL if I were able to do so. LOL.
On second thought, it really isn't funny, but then most truth statements
aren't, are they? Theo

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:07:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 2:01:20 PM, you wrote:

> At 11:17 AM 2/14/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>At 01:05 PM 2/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>>Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:48:12 PM, you wrote:
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> What's Dreyfus?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > a little less than a meter?
>>> >>
>>> >> My, that's a rather LARGE sausage!
>>>
>>>
>>> > All men are liars.
>>>
>>>But some of them do have larger sausages than others.
>>>
>>>Karen
>>>Sausage Inspector
>>
>>Cite?

> Pictures too!

http://tinyurl.com/5uit

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:11:10 -0500
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EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW


> >>
> >>Cite?
>
> > Pictures too!
>
> http://tinyurl.com/5uit
>
> Karen,
> Just a tool of love

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:37:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 1:17:52 PM, you wrote:

> At 01:05 PM 2/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:48:12 PM, you wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What's Dreyfus?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > a little less than a meter?
>> >>
>> >> My, that's a rather LARGE sausage!
>>
>>
>> > All men are liars.
>>
>>But some of them do have larger sausages than others.
>>
>>Karen
>>Sausage Inspector

> Cite?

Well.... Why do you think they call him T-Bone?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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> Friday, February 14, 2003, 1:17:52 PM, you wrote:
>
> > At 01:05 PM 2/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >>Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:48:12 PM, you wrote:
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> What's Dreyfus?
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > a little less than a meter?
> >> >>
> >> >> My, that's a rather LARGE sausage!
> >>
> >>
> >> > All men are liars.
> >>
> >>But some of them do have larger sausages than others.
> >>
> >>Karen
> >>Sausage Inspector
>
> > Cite?
>
> Well.... Why do you think they call him T-Bone?


TMI(-Bone)


BrP




>
> Karen,
> Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 14:21:26 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:28:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Lee <flint@kiva.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: a partial solution...
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On Thu, 13 Feb 2003, John Williams wrote:

JMW> What is it with the Left and wishing death to all their "enemies'?

        I had been under the impression that wishing death on those with
whom one disagreed was a time-honored tradition unique to no single race,
ethnicity, religion, class or political leaning.  Was I wrong?

--
Take care,
Tom Lee (flint@kiva.net)
who doesn't see a moral high ground for anyone anywhere right now

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:37:52 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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This came from Jeff, now back at work at the college:

-----Original Message-----
From: Terry Calhoun [ <mailto:splendid@umich.edu>
mailto:splendid@umich.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2003 12:51 PM
To: University and College Webmasters
Subject: [uwebd] Planning for the Current Situation

Folks, I'm interested in hearing about (links to plans, pages, or
articles about) the actions some campuses may have taken recently or be
planning to take in light of the heightened security and possible
consequences should there be a terrorist action. Is this a visible item
of discussion on your campus? I'm more interested in the overall
planning than about the planning specifically with regard to websites
and general communications, but in those too.

  _____


-----Original Message-----
From: Murch-Shafer, Rick [ <mailto:rmurchshafer@iwcc.edu>
mailto:rmurchshafer@iwcc.edu]

We've wrapped all our servers in plastic and duct tape.

Rick



  _____

President's Message:   <http://www.cua.edu/> http://www.cua.edu/

  _____

Indiana.edu:  We have a "crisis" Web site developed and waiting on the
server. If a crisis occurs, we need only a few minutes to load
information to the site and a link will appear on our gateway site as
well as on each regional campus home page pointing to the "official
crisis" site.

  _____

Our campus just launched a new "terrorism information" web site
( <http://terrorisminfo.ucsf.edu/> http://terrorisminfo.ucsf.edu/) and
promoted the site in our on-line daily today (
<http://pub.ucsf.edu/today/cache/news/200302118.html>
http://pub.ucsf.edu/today/cache/news/200302118.html). I was not involved

in the site design myself, however. - Julie

  _____

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:49:41 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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The proposal to eliminate the State Library of Florida, from the budget
by the Bush administration, is a disaster for the citizens of Florida.
This is not  about library jobs--though many will be eliminated.. It IS
all about depriving the students/schools, state employees, legislature,
researchers, job hunters, and all citizens of their property and
resources to do their jobs.  It is, in fact, a growth management issue,
and closely linked to the demise of the Dept.of Community Affairs.  It
affects the State Archives and Records Management, the State History
Museum and the legislative library, besides abolishing the State
Library.  They are looking for a place to put the huge Florida and
documents collection--including into private hands.  Archives would be
folded into FDEP and remnants of the technology & grants
functions(required for matching federal funds), into Dept.of
State--headed by a political appointee.    This is in the face of the
governor having just declared "reading" to be a major priority and
allocating $16 million for it.

The Palm Beach Co. Library Assn. met this afternoon and is working on a
resolution. Irate is a mild description of the feelings of this
professional group.  And, a reporter was present, taking notes for an
article-to-be in the PALM BEACH POST.  Florida Library Assn and American
Library Assn have already acted.  TIME IS SHORT.  The Florida
Legislature was not informed of these proposed cuts and hearings are
already underway, with short deadlines.  For instance, the 14th is the
deadline for the committee hearing budget matters.  The state librarian,
Barrett Wilkens, retired when faced with the secret actions on
eliminating the State Library.  This has been well documented on the
list serve of the Florida Library Assn.

There are many new legislators in Tallahassee this session--uninformed
and needing your input.   The library community is not the only
organization aghast--numerous county and city commissions have already
passed resolutions or proclamations condeming the action and asking for
restitution of funding for the State Library, in tact.  The Bush
administration has not waited for the legislature to pass the budget,
and has  informed staff of deadlines and terminations.  The new
Secretary of State is pushing the library out of the 1st floor of the
R.A. Gray Building, for her new offices (they have money for that, of
course). The Gray Building was especially designed for library/archive
use--parts for the "stack" areas are not functional office space or for
regular use.

A particularly strong constituency is the Florida Historical Society,
together with archaeology and geneology groups have mounted an effort
for a petition.   You can sign on to this at:
http://www.floridahistory.info/petition
The site has been deluged with responders and it may be still jammed up,
but please use it.  You will get a receipt for your action.   The Palm
Beach Co. library has
lists of local legislators/officials on its web site,
www.pbclibrary.org/grs.htm
  You should find similar materials on your own  county library web
sites or at the Governor's web:
www.myflorida.com


PLEASE--ACT NOW-- telephone calls and letters to your state and county
elected officials, letters to the news media.  Incidentally, the St.
PETE TIMES, has led the way on publicizing the machinations  involved
with this budget. The TIMES even got a nasty letter from J. Bush about
it.

Remember, this is about depriving the citizens of Florida--all ages and
all degrees-- of their rightful property and resources.  Once in private
hands--it will never be the same, and records will be easily lost.
--
alyce

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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> I'm having cataract surgery in April
> and then I'll see better, hopefully.

Ah, I hope so. It usually helps.

alyce

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At 02:49 PM 2/14/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>The proposal to eliminate the State Library of Florida,

He probably thinks just like his brother---all one needs is the (King
James) bible and someone to read the big words to you.

cwv

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 12:37:29 PM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:

<< Hm. I don't have a problem reading it. But at least you can make
= it larger in Netscape. The Seeds of Change website really pissed
= me off because I can't read it and I can't make it bigger.
= >>

I didn't have any problems with the size of it, it came up just right, and
I'm only working with one eye at the moment. I have an eye appointment next
Wednesday. Took much longer than I desired, because I needed old records from
my previous eye surgeon in Colorado; which took a while, but they're on their
way to Idaho right now, I hope! Theo

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:57:54 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> The French are supposed to
> foreverafter be in support of whatever the US chooses to do, even something immoral or idiotic?

Apparently. Although we are forgetting Lafayette if we are going to go
back in time. It is especially helpful, too, that Rumsfeld, after
calling France and Germany "Old Europe," then called France "a second
rate nation" the other day.

alyce

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 11:17 AM 2/14/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>At 01:05 PM 2/14/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:48:12 PM, you wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> What's Dreyfus?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > a little less than a meter?
>> >>
>> >> My, that's a rather LARGE sausage!
>>
>>
>> > All men are liars.
>>
>>But some of them do have larger sausages than others.
>>
>>Karen
>>Sausage Inspector
>
>Cite?

Pictures too!

alec

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 12:52:25 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Doris Markland wrote:
>
> I'm having cataract surgery in April
> and then I'll see better, hopefully.
 >>

It did wonders for me, I cannot describe in mere words the improvement that
resulted from it. Good luck with yours. Theo

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:07:41 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> Thinking I was sending a statement of my opinion to the White House
> last week, I incurred the following response [whitehouse.org].

If you all have not visited http://www.whitehouse.org lately, you might
enjoy it (except that some of the type is small).

alyce

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At 02:57 PM 2/14/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>  It is especially helpful, too, that Rumsfeld... then called France "a second
>rate nation" the other day.

They may well be, but it's not really smart diplomacy to say so publicly.

cwv

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Happy Valentine's Day
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Love As A Way in the Universe

When the storms settle
in the voices of trees
you can hear if you listen
love as a way in the universe

And in the way that whales come
smiling, not as offended victims
but with knowledge past hunters,
love is the way in the universe

When you see the trust of a child
in words she uses the first time
asking for help, knowing help is coming,
love is a way in this universe

And if we had to wish for a color
and time to give all children in this world
what we call history, it would be the history
of love as the way in this universe

Move towards each other today
in celebrations of music and what is kind
and loveliest in men and women, ask for
love as a way for this universe.

          -Rosaly DeMaios Roffman

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:25:22 -0500
From: Karen Kay <karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:11:10 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot
<prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> wrote:

>EEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWWWWWWWW

It's what will happen to you if you masturbate too much!

Karen
fearmonger

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 1:07:59 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< If you all have not visited http://www.whitehouse.org lately, you might
enjoy it (except that some of the type is small).

alyce
 >>

Size was no problem for me; wish I could say the same for it's content. Theo

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:36:05 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 1:42:34 PM, you wrote:

> Karen Kay:
> = Friday, February 14, 2003, 12:34:45 PM, you wrote:
= >> Wow.  That's the smallest print
= >> I have ever (not seen) on the net.
> =
> = Hm. I don't have a problem reading it. But at least you can make
> = it larger in Netscape. The Seeds of Change website really pissed
> = me off because I can't read it and I can't make it bigger.
> =
> = http://www.seedsofchange.com (best viewed in IE)
> =

> Hmm.  Mozilla didn't have any trouble making it bigger.  You must
> upgrade!

Interesting. The page is <wrong> in Netscape--unless you enlarge
it, and then it's fine. I didn't even try to enlarge it in
Netscape until now.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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From: AS <amy.short@murraystate.edu>
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Cet article du Monde
vous est transmis par AS (amy.short@murraystate.edu).

Wordslers,



AS
amy.short@murraystate.edu

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

L'éditorial du Monde
Francophobie
Mardi 11 février 2003
(LE MONDE)


Résumons pour éviter les effets de répétition. Nous autres Français sommes profondément lâches, "munichois" dans l'âme, singulièrement vénaux, passablement antisémites et, cela va de soi, antiaméricains avec acharnement. On oublie : nous sommes "vieux" aussi. C'est ainsi qu'une certaine presse américaine voit les Français. L'un des plus célèbres commentateurs du Washington Post écrit que la France n'a cultivé qu'un seul art depuis 1870, celui de la retraite ou de la fuite. Le New York Post accuse la France d'ignoble ingratitude : oublié le sacrifice des GI de la deuxième guerre mondiale ! Dans sa page "Libre opinion", le Wall Street Journal publie un journaliste britannique, Christopher Hitchens, qualifiant Jacques Chirac de "rat hurlant" en passe de transformer la France "en proxénète de Saddam". Tout cela pour quel crime ? Paris ose ne pas adhérer à la politique irakienne de l'administration Bush... Le commentaire de presse le plus répandu est qu'il ne saurait y avoir qu'u!
ne explication à la position de Paris : des intérêts bassement matériels, une odeur d'essence.


On ne se consolera pas en relevant que ce portrait pourrait passer pour la réponse du berger à la bergère. Il ne serait que la réplique d'une Amérique trop souvent présentée de ce côté de l'Atlantique comme une bande de cow-boys le doigt sur la détente, dirigée par un pasteur fondamentaliste simplet. On trouvera de même peu de réconfort à relever que la francophobie est, comme le relève le chercheur américain Simon Serfaty, un sentiment largement partagé dans le parti du président George W. Bush. De même serait-il inutile d'observer que la France est un pays où les livres dénonçant l'antiaméricanisme font les gros succès de librairie. Et sans doute vain de relever que deux des éléments-clés de la position de Paris méritent au moins d'être débattus : 1. l'Irak ne présente pas un danger tel qu'il mérite une guerre ; 2. une guerre contre un pays arabe est exactement ce que souhaite Oussama Ben Laden.


L'heure est à la caricature. Et ce qui pourrait n'être que procédés de mauvaise presse est tout de même révélateur : le ton des médias outre-Atlantique recouvre souvent ce que l'on dit en privé de la France (et de l'Allemagne) dans certains milieux officiels à Washington. Pas tous. En public, mardi, le président Bush s'est voulu serein, désireux de relativiser le différend franco-américain. Et Jacques Chirac rappelle à ses interlocuteurs que le conflit sur l'Irak ne doit pas occulter ce qui unit les Etats-Unis et la France.


On dressera une dernière conclusion de la bordée d'élégances tirée par la presse américaine à l'intention de la France. A l'heure de la mondialisation de l'information, de la multiplication des échanges, de la communication instantanée, de CNN et d'Internet, des "nouvelles" vingt-quatre heures sur vingt-quatre, le stéréotype n'est pas mort. Au contraire. Le "village global", c'est toujours le règne du cliché.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 15:09:59 2003
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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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>Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> > Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
> > letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
> > are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will forsake
> > the war and pull their troops out.  We don't have much to fear from the
> > US.  No need to disarm.  No need to support the US in the UN.  No  need to
> > do a thing because their own people will take care of the Cowboy Pres.
>
>     Theo, this proves that you are not an ignurunt furriner.  I wish the Folk
>Song Army realized the above.     --JMW

Theo didn't write that.   I did, in answer to a question from Natalie.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 15:13:30 2003
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> > The University of Maine in Orono is going to try to break the record of
> > couples kissing at one time in one spot.  They will do it tonight after the
> > game.  They're hoping for something like 1500 couples.
> >     --bonniev
>
>I can't resist asking if all of the couples will be one man and one woman.
>BrP

Don't know.  I suppose it would depend on what the World Record Book requires.


    --bonniev

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:20:03 EST
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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In a message dated 2/14/2003 1:55:15 PM, williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU writes:

<<
    They had even more before they so gleefully turned them over to the
Nazis.

JMW
 >>
No one turned over any Jews to the nazis to my knowledge. Stop sending hatred
messages if you please. Theo

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Is this for real? Dumbass
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:43:29 -0500
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>In a message dated 2/14/2003 2:31:33 PM, plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU writes:
>
><< The french were notorious for helping the Nazis kill jews.
>Learn freaking
>history.
>
>alec
> >>
>
>Now I understand this hatred of the French in this country,
>when lies like
>these are spread. The Franks were living in Holland, and were
>not turned over
>to the nazis by anyone. I know the history of that time,
>because I was living
>it. Get your facts straight, and learn the correct history of that time
>yourself, my friend. Theo
>

You are a fucking dumbass. I know the history. People can help me out with
web sites that explain what the French did. I am too angry to respond, plus
I gotta go to dinner.


alec

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:42:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 1:54:05 PM, you wrote:
> At 02:49 PM 2/14/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>>The proposal to eliminate the State Library of Florida,

> He probably thinks just like his brother---all one needs is the (King
> James) bible and someone to read the big words to you.

He's been talking about this for several years--I know my sister
has written editorials against it.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 14:57:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 2:57:49 PM, you wrote:

> Theodora Groothof wrote:

>> Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
>> letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
>> are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will forsake
>> the war and pull their troops out.  We don't have much to fear from the
>> US.  No need to disarm.  No need to support the US in the UN.  No  need to
>> do a thing because their own people will take care of the Cowboy Pres.

>     Theo, this proves that you are not an ignurunt furriner.  I wish the Folk
> Song Army realized the above.

Bonnie wrote that. Theo just didn't quote clearly.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> >Folks, I'm interested in hearing about (links to plans, pages, or
> >articles about) the actions some campuses may have taken recently or be
> >planning to take in light of the heightened security and possible
> >consequences should there be a terrorist action. Is this a visible item
> >of discussion on your campus?
>
> The University of Maine in Orono is going to try to break the record of
> couples kissing at one time in one spot.  They will do it tonight after the
> game.  They're hoping for something like 1500 couples.
>
>
>     --bonniev

I can't resist asking if all of the couples will be one man and one woman.


BrP

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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02003-02-14 | Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU> writes:
> Only two nations in the world have larger Jewish population totals than
> France -- the United States and Israel.  There used to be more in the
> former Soviet Union, but the combination of breakup and emigration changed
> that.
>
> The number of Arabs (not the same thing as Muslims, of course) is not
> germane.

Enough to prove that France is an anti-semitic Muslim rogue state ...

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU>
>I love the Logan Square area. During the summer, kids play in the fountain.

I have a great picture, taken by *ic*, of the fountain full of people (not
just kids, either), one child poised upon one of the spewing turtles, a
beachball aloft, the whole scene so alive and urban and inviting. I love
that photo. I ought to dig it out and give it a frame.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Bonnie wrote that. Theo just didn't quote clearly.

    Whups.  Mea culpa.

JMW

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cool

I registered

-- but "architecting" ???

BrP




> We're quietly announcing the existence of the company I've co-founded, and
> its website, to friends and blog-readers:
>
> <http://www.socialtext.com/>
>
> Pete

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 1:51:01 PM, williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU writes:

<< Theodora Groothof wrote:

> Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
> letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
> are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will forsake
> the war and pull their troops out.  We don't have much to fear from the
> US.  No need to disarm.  No need to support the US in the UN.  No  need to
> do a thing because their own people will take care of the Cowboy Pres.

    Theo, this proves that you are not an ignurunt furriner.  I wish the Folk
Song Army realized the above.
 >>

I didn't write this, and you (or whoever) left out my answer to the above.
Please don't attribute things to me, that came from elsewhere. Theo

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>
> No one turned over any Jews to the nazis to my knowledge. Stop sending hatred
> messages if you please. Theo

    Then the French have been trying Claus Barbe and a bunch of other innocent men
all these years.  And of course we all know that Anne Frank turned herself in.

JMW

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We're quietly announcing the existence of the company I've co-founded, and
its website, to friends and blog-readers:

<http://www.socialtext.com/>

Pete

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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Subject: RE: Is this for real?
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>In a message dated 2/14/2003 1:55:15 PM,
>williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU writes:
>
><<
>    They had even more before they so gleefully turned them over to the
>Nazis.
>
>JMW
> >>
>No one turned over any Jews to the nazis to my knowledge. Stop
>sending hatred
>messages if you please. Theo
>

Theo,

The french were notorious for helping the Nazis kill jews. Learn freaking
history.

alec


------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu

"Peace cannot be kept by force.  It can only be achieved by understanding" -
Albert Einstein

''Words can sometimes, in moments of grace, attain the quality of deeds.'' -
Elie Wiesel

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Paul R. Barfoot writes,

>-- but "architecting" ???

Wondered if that would get past this group. :)

Happy to accept better wording...

Pete

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 2:31:33 PM, plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU writes:

<< The french were notorious for helping the Nazis kill jews. Learn freaking
history.

alec
 >>

Now I understand this hatred of the French in this country, when lies like
these are spread. The Franks were living in Holland, and were not turned over
to the nazis by anyone. I know the history of that time, because I was living
it. Get your facts straight, and learn the correct history of that time
yourself, my friend. Theo

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Funny fake 404 page from another list:

<http://www.coxar.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/>

Pete

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>Folks, I'm interested in hearing about (links to plans, pages, or
>articles about) the actions some campuses may have taken recently or be
>planning to take in light of the heightened security and possible
>consequences should there be a terrorist action. Is this a visible item
>of discussion on your campus?

The University of Maine in Orono is going to try to break the record of
couples kissing at one time in one spot.  They will do it tonight after the
game.  They're hoping for something like 1500 couples.


    --bonniev

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:05:22 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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02003-02-14 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> > All men are liars.
> >>
> >>But some of them do have larger sausages than others.
> >>
> >>Karen
> >>Sausage Inspector
>
> > Cite?
>
> Well.... Why do you think they call him T-Bone?

K-R-N ... kindly recall that *I* am occasionally called T-Bone
too. Please, with respect.

And could you also kindly discontinue the "tool of love" nonsense?

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Marie Ascher wrote:

> >From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
> >Doesn't France have one of the largest Jewish populations in the world?
>
> 600,000 Jews, 4 million Arabs.

    They had even more before they so gleefully turned them over to the
Nazis.

JMW

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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
> letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
> are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will forsake
> the war and pull their troops out.  We don't have much to fear from the
> US.  No need to disarm.  No need to support the US in the UN.  No  need to
> do a thing because their own people will take care of the Cowboy Pres.

    Theo, this proves that you are not an ignurunt furriner.  I wish the Folk
Song Army realized the above.

JMW

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Subject: Re:      Re: Fwd: Schools ready for crisis
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:31:41 -0600
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> The University of Maine in Orono is going to try to break the record
of
> couples kissing at one time in one spot.  They will do it tonight
after the
> game.  They're hoping for something like 1500 couples.
>
>
>     --bonniev

Make love, not war.

      - D. M.

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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:

> >In a message dated 2/14/2003 2:31:33 PM, plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU writes:
> >
> ><< The french were notorious for helping the Nazis kill jews.
> >Learn freaking
> >history.
> >
> >alec
> > >>
> >
> >Now I understand this hatred of the French in this country,
> >when lies like
> >these are spread. The Franks were living in Holland, and were
> >not turned over
> >to the nazis by anyone. I know the history of that time,
> >because I was living
> >it. Get your facts straight, and learn the correct history of that time
> >yourself, my friend. Theo
> >
>
> You are a fucking dumbass. I know the history. People can help me out with
> web sites that explain what the French did. I am too angry to respond, plus
> I gotta go to dinner.
>
> alec

    Theo, you might wish to start with a uniformed French para-military
organization called the "Milice".  Low-end estimates say that they rounded up
over 8,000 Jews on their own alone.  And, of course, in addition to the Germans
were the free-lance denouncers.
    "The Franks turned themselves in", huh.  That's a good one. I guess Papa
Frank was working late that day. A bit too close to home for you , perhaps, but
you might also research what a Dutch group called the "Henneicke Column" did to
further the war effort, and then come back and speak of hatred.

JMW

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:59:00 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Socialtext
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On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 13:35:59 -0800, Peter Kaminski <kaminski@ISTORI.COM>
wrote:

>Paul R. Barfoot writes,
>
>>-- but "architecting" ???
>
>Wondered if that would get past this group. :)
>
>Happy to accept better wording...
>
>Pete

Is there something wrong with "building" or "constructing" or "developing"
or "designing"?

neal

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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> Paul R. Barfoot writes,
>
> >-- but "architecting" ???
>
> Wondered if that would get past this group. :)

We have discussed and deplored architecting before on this <service>. It
is godawful.

alyce

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John Williams wrote:

>     And if these "useful idiots" and fellow-travelers weren't so busy helping turn the possibility of war into a
> virtual certainty their naive bumper-sticker-IQ foreign policy would be hilarious.  I don't suppose these wannabe
> Quislings realize that we can see the dead giveaway in their signage?

The dead giveaway of what?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 15:10:20 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
To: Words-L <words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: abulia
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I just learned this word:  found it in the phrase "the abulia of
alienation."

Abulia.  Gr. a, neg. + boule, will.  A loss of will power.  Also spelled
aboulia.

Ann

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:17:10 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:

> >single paragraphs  of being against Israel's policies/behavior
> >and being
> >anti-Semitic -- as if those were the same thing.  Are they?

>  Hating Jews and Israel are basically the same, Israel is a Jewish
> state.

I didn't say anything about hating Israel.  I don't really understand
how one can hate a country.  I don't think that all Israelis enjoy
murdering Palestinian children any more than I think that all
Palestinians enjoy murdering Israeli children.  Or any more than I think
that all USAers are for dropping bombs on the various places this
country has dropped them on.

But is disapproving of Israeli actions anti-Semitic?  When I think about
the actions of countries, I don't stop and think about what the religion
or race of the citizens may be.  I can't understand making judgments on
the basis of race or religion.  When I dislike something Israel is
doing, I don't think of it as having anything to do with you or your
elected leaders, for example.  You are not Israeli.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:22:50 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> Size was no problem for me; wish I could say the same for it's content. Theo

You saw no humor in it?

alyce

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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> No one turned over any Jews to the nazis to my knowledge.

Are you serious?

alyce

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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> Now I understand this hatred of the French in this country, when lies like
> these are spread. The Franks were living in Holland, and were not turned over
> to the nazis by anyone. I know the history of that time, because I was living
> it. Get your facts straight, and learn the correct history of that time
> yourself, my friend. Theo

You are right that Anne Frank was in Holland. But you are wrong about
the French. Just because you did not know of what they did does not make
it a lie.

alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Subject: Re:      abulia
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> I just learned this word:  found it in the phrase "the abulia of
> alienation."
>
> Abulia.  Gr. a, neg. + boule, will.  A loss of will power.  Also
spelled
> aboulia.
>
> Ann

Even though I had thought I might start some
kind of diet this week, even today, maybe . .
my abulia just caused me to slide some potatoes
into the oven and put a scotch and water in my
hand.  Don't know what happened.  That damned
abulia . . .

                  - D. M.

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:29:51 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > = http://www.seedsofchange.com (best viewed in IE)
> > =
>
> > Hmm.  Mozilla didn't have any trouble making it bigger.  You must
> > upgrade!
>
> Interesting. The page is <wrong> in Netscape--unless you enlarge
> it, and then it's fine. I didn't even try to enlarge it in
> Netscape until now.

I glanced quickly at it (with Netscape) and didn't see anything odd
about it.

Meanwhile, I'm still laughing at the juxtaposition of the previous two
pieces of mail I read with the same subject header -- the one about
sausages and eeewww and masturbation followed by Theo's saying "size was
no problem for me."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 17:38:28 2003
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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:36:47 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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AS forwarded:

> L'éditorial du Monde

I'm glad to see that it refers to things like l'administration Bush and
son parti.  Iow, NotInOurName, etc.


--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 17:41:06 2003
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John Williams wrote:
>
> Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> > Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
> > letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
> > are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will forsake
> > the war and pull their troops out.  We don't have much to fear from the
> > US.  No need to disarm.  No need to support the US in the UN.  No  need to
> > do a thing because their own people will take care of the Cowboy Pres.
>
>     Theo, this proves that you are not an ignurunt furriner.  I wish the Folk
> Song Army realized the above.

Theo didn't write that.  But back to its content now that I'm looking at
it again.  "No need to support the US in the UN."  Do I take that to
mean no need to vote yes to war?  Iow, you're for war.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 17:42:48 2003
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John Williams wrote:

> > >Doesn't France have one of the largest Jewish populations in the world?
> >
> > 600,000 Jews, 4 million Arabs.
>
>     They had even more before they so gleefully turned them over to the
> Nazis.

I don't really know the numbers before and after that small group of
French people decided to cooperate with their captors rather than
resisting.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:

> The University of Maine in Orono is going to try to break the record of
> couples kissing at one time in one spot.  They will do it tonight after the
> game.  They're hoping for something like 1500 couples.

We had free desserts, special ones, in the cafeteria today in
celebration of VD.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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The Chicago ScumTimes, currently the most dumbassed newspaper
in the world and devoted to sensational headlines of extreme
stupidity, has coined this: "Terror fears sweep the city".
What's a terror fear?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 17:48:08 2003
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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> No one turned over any Jews to the nazis to my knowledge. Stop sending hatred
> messages if you please. Theo

Yes, some French did.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 17:48:33 2003
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> > > Because the countries who are enemies of the United States will read this
> > > letter and say that the US does not have the stomach for war.  The people
> > > are against this war.  As soon as the casualties come in, they will
> forsake
> > > the war and pull their troops out.  We don't have much to fear from the
> > > US.  No need to disarm.  No need to support the US in the
> UN.  No  need to
> > > do a thing because their own people will take care of the Cowboy Pres.
>
>Theo didn't write that.  But back to its content now that I'm looking at
>it again.  "No need to support the US in the UN."  Do I take that to
>mean no need to vote yes to war?  Iow, you're for war.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

What I said above was in answer to your question about how that letter
could possibly be a negative thing.  Nothing in it has anything to do with
what I do or do not personally believe.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 14 17:49:56 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:

> The french were notorious for helping the Nazis kill jews. Learn freaking
> history.

That's a bit more extreme than the history I've read on the subject.  It
did indeed happen that some Jews were turned over to the Nazis.  I'm not
denying that at all.  But your wording above makes it sound rampant.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:49:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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John Williams wrote:
> And of course we all know that Anne Frank turned herself in.

What did the French have to do with AF?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:52:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:

>  The Franks were living in Holland, and were not turned over
> to the nazis by anyone.

So the Nazis just stumbled upon the Frank family?  I don't think so.
But I really don't know the French connection.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:53:24 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: New phrase
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> The Chicago ScumTimes, currently the most dumbassed newspaper
> in the world and devoted to sensational headlines of extreme
> stupidity, has coined this: "Terror fears sweep the city".
> What's a terror fear?


        I dunno, but the St. Louis Post-Discharge had a photo of a
Connecticut man saran wrapping his entire house on the front
page.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 17:54:00 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> "Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
>
>
>>The french were notorious for helping the Nazis kill jews. Learn freaking
>>history.
>>
>
> That's a bit more extreme than the history I've read on the subject.  It
> did indeed happen that some Jews were turned over to the Nazis.  I'm not
> denying that at all.  But your wording above makes it sound rampant.
>


        Didn't the French government recently officially apologize
for this behavior?



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:09:24 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> >it again.  "No need to support the US in the UN."  Do I take that to
> >mean no need to vote yes to war?  Iow, you're for war.
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> What I said above was in answer to your question about how that letter
> could possibly be a negative thing.  Nothing in it has anything to do with
> what I do or do not personally believe.

But wouldn't calling it "a negative thing" involve personal beliefs?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Rita Chapman wrote:

> >>The french were notorious for helping the Nazis kill jews. Learn freaking
> >>history.
> >>
> > That's a bit more extreme than the history I've read on the subject.  It
> > did indeed happen that some Jews were turned over to the Nazis.  I'm not
> > denying that at all.  But your wording above makes it sound rampant.
> >
>         Didn't the French government recently officially apologize
> for this behavior?

I'm not sure.  I do remember something from a while back about the
French trying to find art items confiscated from Jews during the war to
return to them -- confiscated by both Nazis and the French
Nazi-sympathizers.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 16:20:17 -0800
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Forwarded from a friend:


>>George Bush is visiting an elementary school and announces to the class,
>>"You can all ask me questions."
>>
>>A boy named Bobby raises his hand and says, "I have 3 questions for you":
>>
>>1) How did you win the election with less votes than Gore?
>>2) Isn't it true that you want to declare war on Iraq in order to get oil?
>>3) Why hasn't the U.S. caught Osama Bin Laden?
>>
>>Then the bell sounds and all the kids run out to the playground.
>>
>>15 minutes later the kids come back in class and again Bush says, "You
>>can all ask me questions."
>>
>>A boy named Charlie raises his hand and says, "I have 5 questions for you":
>>
>>1) How did you win the election with less votes than Gore?
>>2) Isn't it true that you want to declare war on Iraq in order to get oil?
>>3) Why hasn't the U.S. caught Osama Bin Laden?
>>4) Why did the bell go off 20 minutes early?
>>5) Where is Bobby?
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
>neal traven                                     beisbol@alumni.pitt.edu
>   "You're only young once, but you can be immature forever."
>                                -- Larry Andersen, relief pitcher

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:41:26 -0500
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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> > >it again.  "No need to support the US in the UN."  Do I take that to
> > >mean no need to vote yes to war?  Iow, you're for war.
> > >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
> >
> > What I said above was in answer to your question about how that letter
> > could possibly be a negative thing.  Nothing in it has anything to do with
> > what I do or do not personally believe.
>
>But wouldn't calling it "a negative thing" involve personal beliefs?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Doris said that the letter could do harm.  You asked how it could possibly
do harm.  I answered  your question.  I imparted information.  I did not
make a belief statement.


    --bonniev

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:43:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 5:43:14 PM, you wrote:
> The Chicago ScumTimes, currently the most dumbassed newspaper
> in the world and devoted to sensational headlines of extreme
> stupidity, has coined this: "Terror fears sweep the city".
> What's a terror fear?

It's related to a terror attack.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:52:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> > > >it again.  "No need to support the US in the UN."  Do I take that to
> > > >mean no need to vote yes to war?  Iow, you're for war.
> > > >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
> > >
> > > What I said above was in answer to your question about how that letter
> > > could possibly be a negative thing.  Nothing in it has anything to do with
> > > what I do or do not personally believe.
> >
> >But wouldn't calling it "a negative thing" involve personal beliefs?
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> Doris said that the letter could do harm.  You asked how it could possibly
> do harm.  I answered  your question.  I imparted information.  I did not
> make a belief statement.

Trying again:  Wouldn't imparting <information> about what you consider
to be <harm> involve personal beliefs?  Not everybody would consider it
harmful for other countries to vote against the US's warmongering in the
UN.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Reality Check
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:58:06 -0600
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I just read that Billy Gray from "Father
Knows Best" is 65.

                    - D. M.

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Neal Traven writes,

>Is there something wrong with "building" or "constructing" or "developing"
>or "designing"?

It was in fact "building" until just before launch.

I need it to convey strategic vision and foresight, and in my community,
none of your verbs do it as much as "architecting".

Any suggestions?  The sentence in question is "Pete has been architecting
Internet apps and connectivity for a decade," and it should be short,
casual and strong.

Pete

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:17:28 -0500
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Socialtext
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At 05:59 PM 2/14/2003 -0500, neal wrote:

>Is there something wrong with "building" or "constructing" or "developing"
>or "designing"?

Of course there is.  All of the words you suggest are old-hat.  None
capture that idea of being on the cutting edge, revolutionizing the field,
new steps for mankind, pushing the envelope, brave new world, etc.  ;-->

cwv

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At 05:12 PM 2/14/2003 -0800, pete wrote:
>Neal Traven writes,
>
>>Is there something wrong with "building" or "constructing" or "developing"
>>or "designing"?
>
>It was in fact "building" until just before launch.
>
>I need it to convey strategic vision and foresight, and in my community,
>none of your verbs do it as much as "architecting".
>
>Any suggestions?  The sentence in question is "Pete has been architecting
>Internet apps and connectivity for a decade," and it should be short,
>casual and strong.


I'll answer your question with another.  Why, in your community, is it
deemed necessary to find new words to describe old things?  What you are
doing, (and I don't intend to demean your effort or your achievements) is
what thinkers, theoreticians, designers, and engineers have been doing for
hundreds of years under the guise of the words that Neal suggested.  Those
efforts have formulated the laws of motion and gravity, discovered the New
World, developed nuclear energy, built the 707, and sent men to the moon,
among other achievements.  Why, suddenly, are they not "enough" for your
community?  Forgive me, but I seem to detect the faint aroma of rampant
narcissism.

cwv

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clyde w. voigtlander writes,

>Why, in your community, is it deemed necessary to find new words to
>describe old things?

"Architect" is a new word?  (Forgive my verbing of it, but that's a fault
of my sentence construction, not an attempt at novelty or narcissism.)

Wouldn't you consider some of your achievers "architects" instead of
builders, constructors, developers or designers?

>Forgive me, but I seem to detect the faint aroma of rampant narcissism.

No, just a tired software developer, social software architect, start-up
businessman, fighter for democracy, and (clearly) amateur writer.

I started coding a major feature today at 5:30am, prepared for launch
around 11am, launched our site publicly, and then at 2pm we had an amazing
multi-national (Japan, US, England, France) real-time live meeting of folks
interesting in tools for emergent democracy today, using phone, web chat
and our wiki simultaneously.  Logs in the Socialtext wiki, blogs happening
elsewhere, although all that won't be as exciting as being there live was.

A fun day. :)

Pete

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In a message dated 02/14/2003 12:40:19 PM Central Standard Time,
dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM writes:

<<
I'm having cataract surgery in April
and then I'll see better, hopefully
>>

When Dad had his cataract surgery, he was surprised at how much
better he could see.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:42:05 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] [Le Monde] : Francophobie
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In a message dated 02/14/2003 2:53:57 PM Central Standard Time,
amy.short@MURRAYSTATE.EDU writes:

<<
Cet article du Monde
vous est transmis par AS (amy.short@murraystate.edu).

>>

Merci beaucoup, mon amie!

One of the things I'm going to do with my free evenings is to go
back to study French and mathematics.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030214170805.025b01b0@mail.istori.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: Socialtext
Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:32:59 -0600
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>
> I need it to convey strategic vision and foresight, and in my
community,
> none of your verbs do it as much as "architecting".
>
> Any suggestions?  The sentence in question is "Pete has been
architecting
> Internet apps and connectivity for a decade," and it should be short,
> casual and strong.
>
> Pete

You could change it from a verb to a noun,
you know.

                  - D. M.

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:42:01 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Socialtext
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>Any suggestions?  The sentence in question is "Pete has been architecting
>Internet apps and connectivity for a decade," and it should be short,
>casual and strong.

Structuring. Building. Creating. Engineering. Just off the top of my head.

Janet

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:44:15 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
>
> "Architect" is a new word?  (Forgive my verbing of it, but that's a fault
> of my sentence construction, not an attempt at novelty or narcissism.)

Architect is fine. So why not say "Pete Kaminski has been an architect
of (whatever) for ten years." Stop verbing...I cannot forgive it.

alyce

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alyce cresap writes,

>Architect is fine. So why not say "Pete Kaminski has been an architect
>of (whatever) for ten years." Stop verbing...I cannot forgive it.

Save the nouns!

:)

The problem with "has been" is it's not as active a verb as I'd like.

Torn,

Pete

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 19:03:19 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Socialtext
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>alyce cresap writes,
>
>>Architect is fine. So why not say "Pete Kaminski has been an architect
>>of (whatever) for ten years." Stop verbing...I cannot forgive it.
>
>Save the nouns!

Pete has been creating Internet apps and building connectivity for a decade.

Janet
(at least that's the way I
would have done it back in
my copywriting days)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Today Robert Chambers, preppy murderer
of Jennifer Levin, walked free after serving
his full 15 year sentence.  Does that seem
15 years ago???

                              - D. M.

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
>
> Of course there is.  All of the words you suggest are old-hat.  None
> capture that idea of being on the cutting edge, revolutionizing the field,
> new steps for mankind, pushing the envelope, brave new world, etc.  ;-->

And all of those old-hat words are understandable to the older crowd,
but not to the youngsters who are in charge of purchasing. If I were in
charge of procurement, and someone offered me something he'd
architected, I'd go elsewhere.
But then I am an old fart. Nothing personal, Pete. I wish you great
success.

alyce

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: Socialtext
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> >Any suggestions?  The sentence in question is "Pete has been architecting
> >Internet apps and connectivity for a decade," and it should be short,
> >casual and strong.
>
> Structuring. Building. Creating. Engineering. Just off the top of my head.
>
> Janet

Another verb is needed before "connectivity" in my opinion.

"Pete has been building Internet applications and fostering connectivity for
a decade."

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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In a message dated 02/14/2003 8:44:53 PM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Stop verbing...I cannot forgive it.


>>

Was it Calvin who said "Verbing causes weirdness."?

Evelyn
Who misses Spaceman Spiff

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:12:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I feel sure you've already seen this:

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0212-07.htm

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:40:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 7:12:36 PM, you wrote:
> Any suggestions?  The sentence in question is "Pete has been architecting
> Internet apps and connectivity for a decade," and it should be short,
> casual and strong.

Just like you.:)

I *like* architecting.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Evelyn Duncan writes,

>Was it Calvin who said "Verbing causes weirdness."?

I have "Verbing weirds language."

And then Peter Ellis <pjie2 @ hermes.cam.ac.uk>, 2000-03-30:
"First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing because verbing weirds
language. Then they arrival for the nouns, and I speech nothing because I
no verbs."

<http://www.istori.com/cgi-bin/wiki?Quotations>

Pete

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 22:10:44 -0500
From: prbarfoo <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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>===== Original Message From English Language Discussion Group
<WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> =====
>Today Robert Chambers, preppy murderer
>of Jennifer Levin, walked free after serving
>his full 15 year sentence.  Does that seem
>15 years ago???
>
>                              - D. M.

This was huge news here.  He was at Auburn Prison just 40 mi. down the road
from Syracuse.

BrP

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:44:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 14, 2003, 9:14:23 PM, you wrote:
> And then Peter Ellis <pjie2 @ hermes.cam.ac.uk>, 2000-03-30:
> "First they came for the verbs, and I said nothing because verbing weirds
> language. Then they arrival for the nouns, and I speech nothing because I
> no verbs."

> <http://www.istori.com/cgi-bin/wiki?Quotations>

I love this!

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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>Was it Calvin who said "Verbing causes weirdness."?
>Evelyn

"Verbing weirds the language."


    --bonniev

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 20:15:46 -0800
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>-- but "architecting" ???
>
>BrP

We've been through this before.  "Architecting" is no more an unword than
"sculpting".

If it was good enough for Keats, it ought to be good enough for us.

Ken Miller
Assistant Drone
Johnson Institute for the Study of Harmless Drudgery

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 23:02:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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The dry food I have for my cat right now is very, very cheap, and
probably doesn't have a lot of taste (or smell). I've been
noticing that since she's been sneezing, she won't eat it unless
she's absolutely starving. (Like, there hasn't been any food in
her bowl for over 12 hours.) But I can't afford to feed her wet
food all the time. So tonight I put half a can of wet food in
with the dry food, and she ate it all up. She's still sneezing,
so I think that the clue you gave me, about her having to smell
it, is absolutely true.

I couldn't find either of the things Rita recommended for
grooming, so I bought a flea comb (that Walmart says is for dogs,
but it's like the ones I've used on long-haired cats before). She
let me comb her without any resistance, even when I pulled. This
is one excellent cat! The people who let her go were fools. And
she certainly deserves better than I can give her. Tomorrow, with
more light, we attempt the underbelly.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 4:10:46 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< You are right that Anne Frank was in Holland. But you are wrong about
the French. Just because you did not know of what they did does not make
it a lie.

alyce
 >>

The French hated the nazis as much as anyone else in Europe. You weren't
living there during WWII, but I was. Are you telling me that you know more
about that time than I?
Theo

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 3:48:48 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Are you serious?

alyce
 >>

Yes, I am. People all over my country were hiding Jews to keep the nazis from
deporting them. One of my uncles was Jewish, but he got caught, and sent to
one, anyway. We never saw him again, alas. Theo

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 4:41:28 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< I don't really know the numbers before and after that small group of
French people decided to cooperate with their captors rather than
resisting.
 >>

If that causes the hatred for the French, then you better decide to hate all
European countries, because there were nazi symphasizers in every country,
even in my own former land, I'm afraid I have to admit. Theo

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Date: Fri, 14 Feb 2003 21:28:55 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>  > True. Or some just assume that whatever they have is ADHD without
>>  bothering to be clinically assessed -- a strategy which I myself have
>>  used, since whether I do or don't I seem to be adapting to it
>>  adequately well. (I've seen some interesting speculations that it's
>>  not a "disorder" at all, but simply a different means of thought and
>>  focus which is less well adapted to life in the school and the
>  > workplace, which makes a certain amount of sense to me.)
>
>         Except that ADHD also makes it difficult to adapt to
>everything else, too.  ADHD kids have just as hard a time
>playing sports as they do in the classroom -- everything we
>do in life requires some kind of focus.

That's not true of the people I know who are diagnosed with ADHD.
They seem to hyperfocus during sports, which tends to make them
excellent (and dedicated) athletes. My sweetie Lynn was just very
recently diagnosed while in the process of getting a diagnosis for
her teenaged son -- the mother has two black belts and the son is a
championship soccer player. Lynn, from my observation, seems to need
explosive physical activity to maintain her equilibrium and focus,
and this is fairly typical of the other ADHDers I know.

>  >> I think BDSMers may have hyposensory
>>>  issues in which it just takes a lot of stimulation to feel
>>>  good.  A whack that a normal person finds painful and
>>>  unpleasant may feel just right to somebody with
>  >> hyposensitivity -- and that is very calming.
>>
>  > I've never seen any evidence, nor do I believe, that a whack feels
>>  any different to a perv than to a vanilla. What makes the difference
>  > is what we do with the sensation.
>
>         I have oodles of evidence that different people perceive
>stimuli differently.  It isn't "what you do with the
>sensation" -- that's something else entirely.  That's a
>learned response.  People who are autistic, for example,
>often perceive touch in radically different ways than most
>of us.  I know several children who you can't spank for
>punishment because it feels so good to them to have that
>kind of deep pressure.

And there are studies to back you up -- different people *do* have
different thresholds for stimulus. However, there's no evidence that
BDSMers have higher thresholds than anyone else, although we might
have better skills for processing intense stimulus when we receive it.

I think that the large number of medical professionals we have in the
scene would have noticed by now if their kinky patients had
noticeably different pain reactions than their vanilla ones. (I
*have* heard of the opposite problem -- the health professional who
underprescribes pain medication to the kinky person because they
think we perceive pain somehow differently than anybody else.)

Speaking from my own experience, I'm a huge baby when it comes to
unintentional pain. Headaches, backaches, menstrual cramps and minor
injuries send me running for the Vicodin bottle. Yet I am considered
an unusually heavy masochist among the people with whom I hang out --
who have a fairly high standard for such things.

Janet

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 4:43:39 PM, scribble@POBOX.COM writes:

<< What's a terror fear? >>

To me it means that people are afraid of terror. Theo

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 00:39:49 EST
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In a message dated 2/14/2003 4:47:00 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< Yes, some French did.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
 >>

Yes, of course some did (see my previous post about it) In my country there
was a party called the NSB that would, but anyone outside of that group hated
them for years to come. As I understand, the party no longer exist now,
because It couldn't round up enough followers to join it.
When I was growing up I remember being told by my parents not to say anything
against them outside of my home, because I could be overheard, and they would
turn in my parents for treason. Theo

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 4:52:37 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< So the Nazis just stumbled upon the Frank family?  I don't think so.
But I really don't know the French connection.
 >>

No, someone turned them over to the nazis, I'm not denying that, but it
wasn't the French, because they were hiding in Holland, so blame the Dutch if
you want to blame anyone. I'm ashamed to admit it, but as I stated before,
there were nazi symphasizers (sp?) in all of Europe, even Holland. Theo

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 01:04:07 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Karen Kay wrote:
>  This
> is one excellent cat!

Thank you for caring for the cat, Karen. It makes me happy.

alyce

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 11:10:11 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< I am telling you that there were many Jews in France turned over to the
nazis by French people. It is an historical fact. Because you were a
young child during the war (six to ten years?), perhaps you were not
told about this, or perhaps it was not widely broadcast. Whence did you
receive your news?
 >>

Of course there were nazi symphasizers in France, they were in every country
in Europe. I may have been young, but I remember it well. Theo

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 01:31:55 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> But you forgot to mention that I stated that ALL countries had nazi
> symphasizers, not just France; even Holland I'm ashamed to admit. Also the
> Franks were living in Holland when someone turned them over to the nazis.

OK. Enough. I know the Franks were in Holland and had nothing to do with
the French. I know and have said that there were and are nazi
sympathizers everywhere. But the subject being discussed this morning,
and I guess last night, was about French anti-semitism and the fact that
the French turned many Jews over to the nazis. You seem to want to
ignore this fact, and if it makes you happy, you may do so. But it did
happen. It has nothing to do with Holland or your personal experience
and I expect, as I said in an earlier post, that you were totally
unaware of it at the time, because I doubt it was on the evening news.
However, you should be aware of it now.

Here is a snippet. If you want to know more, please google.

After a trial instigated because of the legal complaints filed by
Matisson and aggrieved families of other victims, Maurice Papon, 87, a
mid-level functionary in the wartime puppet state of Vichy, was found
guilty of having served as an accomplice in "crimes against humanity"
and sentenced to 10 years in prison.

The punctilious civil servant, the court ruled, had helped to organize
and implement some of the "arbitrary" arrests and detentions of 1,560
Jews in the Bordeaux area. These were the first steps for the Jews in a
sorrowful journey by rail cattle cars to a holding camp in northern
France and near-certain death in the concentration camps of the Third
Reich.
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V118/N16/bfrench.16w.html
And that was just one man. There were others.

alyce

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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
>
> Yes, I am. People all over my country were hiding Jews to keep the nazis from
> deporting them.

But we were talking about France turning in Jew, not Holland. ANd I am
sorry about your uncle.

alyce

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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> The French hated the nazis as much as anyone else in Europe. You weren't
> living there during WWII, but I was. Are you telling me that you know more
> about that time than I?

I am telling you that there were many Jews in France turned over to the
nazis by French people. It is an historical fact. Because you were a
young child during the war (six to ten years?), perhaps you were not
told about this, or perhaps it was not widely broadcast. Whence did you
receive your news?

alyce

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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> If that causes the hatred for the French, then you better decide to hate all
> European countries, because there were nazi symphasizers in every country,
> even in my own former land, I'm afraid I have to admit.

There were (and are) nazi sympathizers in the US. We are not talking
about hating the French--we are talking about opposing anti-semitism.
Let's stay on topic.

alyce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 11:32:35 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< After a trial instigated because of the legal complaints filed by
Matisson and aggrieved families of other victims, Maurice Papon, 87, a
mid-level functionary in the wartime puppet state of Vichy, was found
guilty of having served as an accomplice in "crimes against humanity"
and sentenced to 10 years in prison.
 >>

And you think that France is the only country that hated Jews? Common Allie,
Jew haters were, and are, in every country, even the USA. Perhaps you never
met any here, but I assure you, they exist here too. I have a Jewish friend
who lives in Maine, and he could tell you that it's true. Theo

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In a message dated 2/14/2003 11:05:44 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< But we were talking about France turning in Jew, not Holland. ANd I am
sorry about your uncle.
 >>

But you forgot to mention that I stated that ALL countries had nazi
symphasizers, not just France; even Holland I'm ashamed to admit. Also the
Franks were living in Holland when someone turned them over to the nazis. Theo

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On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 09:22 , Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>
>> We're at Yellow Alert, the stage below Red Alert. Everyone is
>
> I think we're Orange, aren't we?

Only Theo, Steph is probably only half way...
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>

Roy

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Roy Jaques:
= On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 09:22 , Natalie Maynor wrote:
=
= > Karen Kay wrote:
= >
= >> We're at Yellow Alert, the stage below Red Alert. Everyone is
= >
= > I think we're Orange, aren't we?
=
= Only Theo, Steph is probably only half way...

Awaking from your winter slumber, Roy?

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On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 02:10 , clyde w. voigtlander wrote:

> At 08:57 AM 2/13/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:
>> I saw a piece on the electric teevee about USAers raiding
>> grocery stores and home depots in preparation for an
>> imminent chemical/poison gas/general terrorist attack.
>> How widespread is this? Are you guys all stocked up on
>> water, kitty litter etc. I didn't hear anything about
>> this on the list and was surprised to see the report.
>> Is this a fringe fear or confined to certain areas or ...?
>
> To answer your first question (the subject line)---who knows?  As Karen
> noted, we are at yellow alert.  Apparently the Brits also are very
> nervous.

The government is nervous. Media interviews seem to indicate that those
in London are just living normal lives. Three decades of possible bombing
by the IRA means that warnings of more terrorist attacks are nothing new.

Heathrow airport was surrounded by police road blocks. The alert was that
an aircraft would be attacked with a missile, vans and cars are now being
searched in the area. I was stopped on Wednesday evening returning from a
shopping trip.

I flew to Zurich on Thursday and the security in Heathrow did not appear
to be any tighter than usual, this may have been because I went through
the terminal which does not have UK or US airlines. The same on my return
last night, little evidence of higher security, although the Police were
arresting someone at the time (two policemen, no fuss), before taking him
through the baggage hall, customs and out to a van through all those
waiting in arrivals.

In general, we know what is going on and are not bothered by it.
>
> cwv
>
Roy

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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From: Roy Jaques <rjaques@onetel.net.uk>
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>
> 600,000 Jews, 4 million Arabs.
>
The four million arabs and other immigrants are the reason the
French voted for Le Pen. It's not just anti-jewish, it's
anti-immigrant.

The same reason can be pointed to with Pim Fortuyn in Holland,
Haider in Austria and the rise of the BNP in Britain. People do
not like those who are different, regardless of where that society
is located. The difference can be colour, race, religion, language
or what team you support the divisions will always occur.

Should anyone wish to point out the anti-semitic history of any
country, the discrimination in your own country should be looked
at first.
>
> Marie
>
Roy

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 05:55:29 2003
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10:26 14.02.2003 -0500 skrev alyce cresap:
>PS: Maybe you could get them to deliver it to me and I could send it to
>you for less than $25 postage? That seems a high price unless it is a
>very heavy thing.

Thank you very much - I was thinking also that I should wait until I visit London again and see if I can read it at the BL - they have a copy.

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 07:36:38 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:34:54 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> << I don't really know the numbers before and after that small group of
> French people decided to cooperate with their captors rather than
> resisting.
>  >>
> If that causes the hatred for the French, then you better decide to hate all
> European countries, because there were nazi symphasizers in every country,
> even in my own former land, I'm afraid I have to admit. Theo

I don't claim to be an expert on the subject, but I think the French
cooperators gained more notoriety because the number of Jews turned over
was pretty large (though the number of French doing it wasn't) and
possibly because of France's somewhat odd situation during the
occupation, with a so-called government operating in Vichy, etc.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 07:47:20 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 07:45:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:

> Awaking from your winter slumber, Roy?

I'd been wondering when Roy was going to resurface.  I've been thinking
about how his boy Tony is interfering with his opportunity to talk about
the wicked US behavior.  (It's true, of course, that Tony might not have
gotten this mess started by himself -- that Dubya egged him on in it.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 08:12:44 2003
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Subject: Re: Odd Statement
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>This is in the lead cnn.com story about today's peace marches:
>
>**************
>While the demonstrations are unlikely to
>                   have any sway on Washington's push for
>                   military action against Iraq, the protests
>                   are set to irritate the British and
>                   Australian governments, which have
>                   strongly backed Washington and
>                   contributed military assistance to the
>                   buildup.
>**************
>from:
>http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/15/sprj.irq.protests/index.html
>
>I find that weird.  While I agree with the opening clause, as we've
>discussed before, it had not occurred to me that the purpose of
>protesting the war was "to irritate the British and Australian
>governments."     -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Read "are set to" in the sense of "are bound to".   It is a statement of
effect not purpose.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 08:26:14 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> << So the Nazis just stumbled upon the Frank family?  I don't think so.
> But I really don't know the French connection.
>  >>
>
> No, someone turned them over to the nazis, I'm not denying that, but it
> wasn't the French, because they were hiding in Holland, so blame the Dutch if

What I was responding to above was your statement that "nobody turned in
the Frank family."  I did not think it was the French since I couldn't
visualize French nazi-sympathizers running around in Amsterdam turning
people in.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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This is in the lead cnn.com story about today's peace marches:

**************
While the demonstrations are unlikely to
                  have any sway on Washington's push for
                  military action against Iraq, the protests
                  are set to irritate the British and
                  Australian governments, which have
                  strongly backed Washington and
                  contributed military assistance to the
                  buildup.
**************
from:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/15/sprj.irq.protests/index.html

I find that weird.  While I agree with the opening clause, as we've
discussed before, it had not occurred to me that the purpose of
protesting the war was "to irritate the British and Australian
governments."
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 08:26:14 2003
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At 08:15 PM 2/14/2003 -0800, ken wrote:
>If it was good enough for Keats, it ought to be good enough for us.

"Argh snarfel grrch unngh"

(If it was good enough for Ogg, it ought to be good enough for us.)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 08:28:20 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:26:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 12:04:07 AM, you wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>>  This
>> is one excellent cat!

> Thank you for caring for the cat, Karen. It makes me happy.

Good. I thank the cat for being her own mellow, interesting self.

She's been coming in my house, too. I had to throw her out
yesterday, because she headed straight to the kitchen.

I don't actually want her in my house, but I don't want her to be
afraid to come in.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 08:33:40 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:31:56 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> Read "are set to" in the sense of "are bound to".   It is a statement of
> effect not purpose.

That entered my mind just as I was sending that, though it seemed a bit
out of context.
...
Strange.  I just looked back at the article to see the context, and it
has totally changed now -- it being the article.  It has been rewritten
since I looked at it a little while ago.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 08:36:41 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:34:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> has totally changed now -- it being the article.  It has been rewritten
> since I looked at it a little while ago.

No, it just moved:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/15/sprj.irq.protests.main/index.html

The statement is still there, and the interpretation you gave does work.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 08:55:36 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 09:53:26 -0500
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
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At 11:02 PM 2/14/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>... So tonight I put half a can of wet food in
>with the dry food, and she ate it all up. She's still sneezing,
>so I think that the clue you gave me, about her having to smell
>it, is absolutely true.

No problem.  I'm always happy to heuristically architect innovative
solutions to non-paradigmatic disconnects.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 08:59:01 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 08:57:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 8:53:26 AM, you wrote:

> At 11:02 PM 2/14/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>... So tonight I put half a can of wet food in
>>with the dry food, and she ate it all up. She's still sneezing,
>>so I think that the clue you gave me, about her having to smell
>>it, is absolutely true.

> No problem.  I'm always happy to heuristically architect innovative
> solutions to non-paradigmatic disconnects.

I think this was a paradigmatic disconnect.

'heuristically architect' sounds weird to me.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 09:06:51 2003
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At 08:57 AM 2/15/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>I think this was a paradigmatic disconnect.
>
>'heuristically architect' sounds weird to me.

Well, that's probably because you haven't ideated connectivity in the
context of a holistic, parameter-free umwelt.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 09:11:07 2003
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>steph wrote:
>
>> Awaking from your winter slumber, Roy?
>
>I'd been wondering when Roy was going to resurface.  I've been thinking
>about how his boy Tony is interfering with his opportunity to talk about
>the wicked US behavior.  (It's true, of course, that Tony might not have
>gotten this mess started by himself -- that Dubya egged him on in it.)
>

Yabbut don't forget that Dubya's father might have let Saddam get away with
Kuwait if Margaret Thatcher hadn't egged him on.

/Jim

>--
> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 10:19:20 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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Are you cooking your own birthday dinner or going out?  Hope it's a good one.

Aren't you eligible for more senior discounts now?  Our movie houses make
us wait until 65, I think.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 10:23:08 2003
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Happy birthday, Clyde.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 11:09:47 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:07:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> Oh, I get the idea.  In fact, I think I could use some.
> We have moles or voles or something in our lawn.
> A little bobcat urine would scare them and make
> them go away?

Would it scare them away, or would it make them add their scents to the
spots?  I know little of mole/vole behavior.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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At 08:21 AM 2/15/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>Are you cooking your own birthday dinner or going out?  Hope it's a good one.

Tonight we are going to an innkeepers' party at Coach Stop Inn---they
provide the beer and wine, everyone else brings something.  I'm going to
make Italian cherry bread---it's a sweet bread usually made with fresh wine
grapes, which are hard to find in downeast Maine this time of year, so I'll
use rehydrated tart cherries---and maybe some schiacciata.

Tomorrow night we dine at Mache Bistro.  Monday morning, if the forecast
holds, we will go cross-country skiing.

As to discounts, I already get discounts on some airplane tickets.  I
haven't explored any other such opportunities.

cwv

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:21:24 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> And you think that France is the only country that hated Jews? Common Allie,
> Jew haters were, and are, in every country, even the USA. Perhaps you never
> met any here, but I assure you, they exist here too. I have a Jewish friend
> who lives in Maine, and he could tell you that it's true.

I'm giving up on this, Theo. You do not read (or perhaps do not
comprehend) anything I have written on this subject. So forget it.

alyce

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Why would anyone want this? And it proves there is nothing that cannot
be sold.

>http://predatorpee.com/

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 11:09:49 2003
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Betty wrote:
>
> Are you cooking your own birthday dinner or going out?  Hope it's a good one.
>
> Aren't you eligible for more senior discounts now?  Our movie houses make
> us wait until 65, I think.

HB!  Re discounts, some of the ones that used to start at 62 have moved
up to 65 -- e.g., some of the airlines.  I wonder when they'll move up
to 70.  What I'm hoping is that Medicare doesn't move up to start
matching the full social-security age.  I want it at 65.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Why would anyone want this? And it proves there is nothing that cannot
> be sold.
>
> >http://predatorpee.com/

Isn't its point to decide where in your yard you'd prefer your dog to
pee?  With Spencer that's not a problem -- he's very discreet about it
and always goes far from the house.  Bernard, however, enjoyed peeing on
the columns holding up my patio roof at the old house.  If I'd had some
PredatorPee, I could have applied it to areas farther away from the
patio to lure him there.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 11:09:49 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:58:58 -0600
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> Why would anyone want this? And it proves there is nothing that cannot
> be sold.
>
> >http://predatorpee.com/
>
> alyce

Oh, I get the idea.  In fact, I think I could use some.
We have moles or voles or something in our lawn.
A little bobcat urine would scare them and make
them go away?

                                  - D. M.

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:22:25 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> Happy birthday, Clyde.

Best wishes and many more.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 11:21:06 2003
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>Why would anyone want this? And it proves there is nothing that cannot
>be sold.
>
>http://predatorpee.com/
>alyce

To put on your garden so that certain pests stay away.   There is a really
funny Lake Wobegon story about this.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 11:33:12 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: Why?
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:35:17 -0600
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> alyce cresap wrote:
> >
> > Why would anyone want this? And it proves there is nothing that
cannot
> > be sold.
> >
> > >http://predatorpee.com/
>
> Isn't its point to decide where in your yard you'd prefer your dog to
> pee?  With Spencer that's not a problem -- he's very discreet about it
> and always goes far from the house.  Bernard, however, enjoyed peeing
on
> the columns holding up my patio roof at the old house.  If I'd had
some
> PredatorPee, I could have applied it to areas farther away from the
> patio to lure him there.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Yes, it can be used to train cats and dogs.
But also used to deter unwanted animals.

                    - D. M.

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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:26:30 AM, you wrote:
> Why would anyone want this? And it proves there is nothing that cannot
> be sold.

>>http://predatorpee.com/

I've posted this link before. I know at least one person who has
successfully used this to get rid of squirrels.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 12:01:34 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:53:01 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> Oh, I get the idea.  In fact, I think I could use some.
> We have moles or voles or something in our lawn.
> A little bobcat urine would scare them and make
> them go away?

I guess. Didn't think  of that. Wonder how they collect it.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:02:29 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Is a "permanent marker" really permanent?  Iow, will I always have a
black rim around the perimeter of the plate I used a little while ago to
make a peace symbol?  I decided that my sign for today's march/rally
would be simply the peace symbol, but I knew I was incapable of drawing
a decent circle freehand, so I used a plate.  I'm happy with my sign.  I
used a white side of a box and have it secured to part of a curtain rod.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 12:10:25 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:08:17 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Is a "permanent marker" really permanent?

I imagine it will wear off in time, but I don't think it would be a good
idea to apply cleaning fluids or to scrub it, especially if there is
gold underneath. You should have used a pot/kettle lid.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 12:10:31 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:08:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 11:53:01 AM, you wrote:
> I guess. Didn't think  of that. Wonder how they collect it.

This information is available on the website.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 12:12:05 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:10:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 12:02:29 PM, you wrote:
> Is a "permanent marker" really permanent?

It depends.

http://www.momsview.com/discus/messages/41/7791.html
offers some suggestions.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 12:21:08 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:19:52 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Marker on Plate Rim
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>Is a "permanent marker" really permanent?  Iow, will I always have a
>black rim around the perimeter of the plate I used a little while ago to
>make a peace symbol?  I decided that my sign for today's march/rally
>would be simply the peace symbol, but I knew I was incapable of drawing
>a decent circle freehand, so I used a plate.  I'm happy with my sign.  I
>used a white side of a box and have it secured to part of a curtain rod.

Use nail polish remover.

Janet

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Subject: Re: Odd Statement
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On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:53 , Natalie Maynor wrote:

> This is in the lead cnn.com story about today's peace marches:
> from:
> http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/02/15/sprj.irq.protests/index.html
>
> I find that weird.  While I agree with the opening clause, as we've
> discussed before, it had not occurred to me that the purpose of
> protesting the war was "to irritate the British and Australian
> governments."
> --
 From the other side of the pond ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765041.stm

>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
Roy

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Subject: Re:      Re: Marker on Plate Rim
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:31:27 -0600
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> I'm happy that the rain has stopped temporarily.  It will of course
come
> back, probably in the middle of this pretty long march.  It's longer
> than the usual local marches -- all the way from campus to the
> courthouse.  I'm trying to decide where to park -- at its beginning,
at
> its end, or somewhere in the middle.  I'm leaning toward somewhere
sort
> of near its beginning, especially since time is slipping by.  Even if
I
> left right now, I wouldn't have time to park downtown and walk all the
> way to the march's beginning place.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

By now I should have learned better than to even
bring up any subject regarding the <war> on this
list . . . but I must ask:

I am wondering why those who organize these
marches and protests here and around the world
never address Saddam with signs that say
"comply with the U. N."  "Avoid war" etc. etc.
Does that mean that they do believe Saddam has
reported honestly to the U. N.?

                                    - D. M.

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:11:13 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Marker on Plate Rim
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 12:08:17 PM, you wrote:
> I imagine it will wear off in time, but I don't think it would be a good
> idea to apply cleaning fluids or to scrub it, especially if there is
> gold underneath. You should have used a pot/kettle lid.

Or a paper plate.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 12:58:48 2003
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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 01:45 , Natalie Maynor wrote:

> steph wrote:
>
>> Awaking from your winter slumber, Roy?
>
> I'd been wondering when Roy was going to resurface.  I've been thinking
> about how his boy Tony is interfering with his opportunity to talk about
> the wicked US behavior.  (It's true, of course, that Tony might not have
> gotten this mess started by himself -- that Dubya egged him on in it.)
>
Not quite sure what you mean.

However, if Tony allows the British troops into Iraq there is a very good
chance he will not be the Prime Minister at the year. At lot of people in
Labour party (and the country) do not agree with what he is doing. It
will only take one Labour MP to challenge him in a leadership election
and he could be on the way out.

If the UN don't agree to the invasion and Blair and Bush invade anyway
then he will have a real problem keeping the job he has now.

> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
Roy

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Why?
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At 12:08 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 11:53:01 AM, you wrote:
> > I guess. Didn't think  of that. Wonder how they collect it.
>
>This information is available on the website.

IMFTATL

Betty
Just a tool

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 12:58:49 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:14:08 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Marker on Plate Rim
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alyce cresap wrote:

> I imagine it will wear off in time, but I don't think it would be a good
> idea to apply cleaning fluids or to scrub it, especially if there is
> gold underneath. You should have used a pot/kettle lid.

A lid would have been a good idea.  Should've thought of that.  This
isn't my <good> china, though.

I'm happy that the rain has stopped temporarily.  It will of course come
back, probably in the middle of this pretty long march.  It's longer
than the usual local marches -- all the way from campus to the
courthouse.  I'm trying to decide where to park -- at its beginning, at
its end, or somewhere in the middle.  I'm leaning toward somewhere sort
of near its beginning, especially since time is slipping by.  Even if I
left right now, I wouldn't have time to park downtown and walk all the
way to the march's beginning place.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:16:45 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 12:17:16 PM, you wrote:

> At 12:08 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 11:53:01 AM, you wrote:
>> > I guess. Didn't think  of that. Wonder how they collect it.
>>
>>This information is available on the website.

> IMFTATL

> Betty
> Just a tool

:)

I don't remember, maybe someone else does.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Subject: Re:      Re: Why?
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Betty" <bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 12:17 PM
Subject: Re: Why?


> At 12:08 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> >Saturday, February 15, 2003, 11:53:01 AM, you wrote:
> > > I guess. Didn't think  of that. Wonder how they collect it.
> >
> >This information is available on the website.
>
> IMFTATL
>
> Betty
> Just a tool

The web site gives more than one answer, but
the first one goes something like:

Once they learn how to hit the bottle
it's easy . . .

                - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 12:58:51 2003
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In a message dated 2/15/2003 2:15:41 AM, rjaques@ONETEL.NET.UK writes:

<< In general, we know what is going on and are not bothered by it. >>

That's exactly the way I feel. Mostly media hype as far as I'm concerned. Theo

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In a message dated 2/15/2003 2:33:50 AM, rjaques@ONETEL.NET.UK writes:

<< Should anyone wish to point out the anti-semitic history of any
country, the discrimination in your own country should be looked
at first.
>
> Marie
 >>

Right you are my friend. Theo

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In a message dated 2/15/2003 6:38:20 AM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< What I was responding to above was your statement that "nobody turned in
the Frank family."   >>

I never stated that, only that it couldn't have been the French because the
Frank family was hiding out in Holland. Don't twist my words if you please.
Theo

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:37:08 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> In a message dated 2/14/2003 4:10:46 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:
>
> << You are right that Anne Frank was in Holland. But you are wrong about
> the French. Just because you did not know of what they did does not make
> it a lie.
>
> alyce
>  >>
>
> The French hated the nazis as much as anyone else in Europe. You weren't
> living there during WWII, but I was. Are you telling me that you know more
> about that time than I?


        Theo, have you ever stopped to consider that a) your brain
damage is a little more extensive than the doctors' let on
b) you contradict yourself continuously and c) a
five-year-old is not necessarily an expert on everything
that happens around him or her?



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:39:13 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Yes, I do have studies, Janet.  Check out the medical
literature on Autism and other sensory disorders.

You may be an expert on all things BDSM, but BDSM is not the
answer to everything.



Janet Hardy wrote:

>>  > True. Or some just assume that whatever they have is ADHD without
>>
>>>  bothering to be clinically assessed -- a strategy which I myself have
>>>  used, since whether I do or don't I seem to be adapting to it
>>>  adequately well. (I've seen some interesting speculations that it's
>>>  not a "disorder" at all, but simply a different means of thought and
>>>  focus which is less well adapted to life in the school and the
>>
>>  > workplace, which makes a certain amount of sense to me.)
>>
>>         Except that ADHD also makes it difficult to adapt to
>> everything else, too.  ADHD kids have just as hard a time
>> playing sports as they do in the classroom -- everything we
>> do in life requires some kind of focus.
>
>
> That's not true of the people I know who are diagnosed with ADHD.
> They seem to hyperfocus during sports, which tends to make them
> excellent (and dedicated) athletes. My sweetie Lynn was just very
> recently diagnosed while in the process of getting a diagnosis for
> her teenaged son -- the mother has two black belts and the son is a
> championship soccer player. Lynn, from my observation, seems to need
> explosive physical activity to maintain her equilibrium and focus,
> and this is fairly typical of the other ADHDers I know.
>
>>  >> I think BDSMers may have hyposensory
>>
>>>>  issues in which it just takes a lot of stimulation to feel
>>>>  good.  A whack that a normal person finds painful and
>>>>  unpleasant may feel just right to somebody with
>>>
>>  >> hyposensitivity -- and that is very calming.
>>
>>>
>>  > I've never seen any evidence, nor do I believe, that a whack feels
>>
>>>  any different to a perv than to a vanilla. What makes the difference
>>
>>  > is what we do with the sensation.
>>
>>         I have oodles of evidence that different people perceive
>> stimuli differently.  It isn't "what you do with the
>> sensation" -- that's something else entirely.  That's a
>> learned response.  People who are autistic, for example,
>> often perceive touch in radically different ways than most
>> of us.  I know several children who you can't spank for
>> punishment because it feels so good to them to have that
>> kind of deep pressure.
>
>
> And there are studies to back you up -- different people *do* have
> different thresholds for stimulus. However, there's no evidence that
> BDSMers have higher thresholds than anyone else, although we might
> have better skills for processing intense stimulus when we receive it.
>
> I think that the large number of medical professionals we have in the
> scene would have noticed by now if their kinky patients had
> noticeably different pain reactions than their vanilla ones. (I
> *have* heard of the opposite problem -- the health professional who
> underprescribes pain medication to the kinky person because they
> think we perceive pain somehow differently than anybody else.)
>
> Speaking from my own experience, I'm a huge baby when it comes to
> unintentional pain. Headaches, backaches, menstrual cramps and minor
> injuries send me running for the Vicodin bottle. Yet I am considered
> an unusually heavy masochist among the people with whom I hang out --
> who have a fairly high standard for such things.
>
> Janet
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Subject: Re: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
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In a message dated 2/15/2003 7:53:48 AM, cwv@PANAX.COM writes:

<< No problem.  I'm always happy to heuristically architect innovative
solutions to non-paradigmatic disconnects.

cwv
 >>

LOL Theo

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:40:49 EST
Subject: Re: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
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In a message dated 2/15/2003 8:05:22 AM, cwv@PANAX.COM writes:

<< Well, that's probably because you haven't ideated connectivity in the
context of a holistic, parameter-free umwelt.

cwv
 >>

Stop it already P L E A S E :-) Theo

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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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Many happy returns of the day. I don't have the birthday list anymore that I
once received, so the how maniest would this be? Theo

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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In a message dated 2/15/2003 9:22:26 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< I'm giving up on this, Theo. You do not read (or perhaps do not
comprehend) anything I have written on this subject. So forget it.

alyce
 >>

Fine with me Allie, but I have understood every word that has been written on
this subject, including yours. Bless you, and have a happy life. Theo

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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> << Should anyone wish to point out the anti-semitic history of any
> country, the discrimination in your own country should be looked
> at first.
>
> Right you are my friend. Theo

That particular discussion began not
as a criticism of France but rather as
quoting someone on TV who said
that France's growing anti-Semitism
may in part explain their animosity
toward the U. S.

               - D. M.

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 10:57:58 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>Yes, I do have studies, Janet.  Check out the medical
>literature on Autism and other sensory disorders.

Allow me to point out what I actually said, rather than what you seem
to think I said:

>  > And there are studies to back you up -- different people *do* have
>>  different thresholds for stimulus. However, there's no evidence that
>>  BDSMers have higher thresholds than anyone else, although we might
>  > have better skills for processing intense stimulus when we receive it.
>  >
>  > I think that the large number of medical professionals we have in the
>  > scene would have noticed by now if their kinky patients had
>  noticeably different pain reactions than their vanilla ones.

In other words: Yes, different people perceive pain differently; no,
there is no evidence, as far as I know, that there is a predictable
difference in pain perception between kinky people and others. If
you've seen studies that suggest otherwise I'd be very interested in
taking a look at them.

Janet

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 12:58:01 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Party Preparations
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I'm already pooped, and it's going to be a long night.  I
have 7 first graders sleeping over tonight for Ana's
birthday party.  The cake is in the oven, the house is
cleaned up, I have snacks, pancake mix and oj for the
morning, sheets and blankets are in the wash, and the prize
vault is stocked. Now I have to figure out what kind of
games we're going to play and hope the weather doesn't
discourage anyone (although all the girls live within a mile
or so of the house).

Wheee :).

--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:09:38 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>>  > True. Or some just assume that whatever they have is ADHD without
>>
>>>  bothering to be clinically assessed -- a strategy which I myself have
>>>  used, since whether I do or don't I seem to be adapting to it
>>>  adequately well. (I've seen some interesting speculations that it's
>>>  not a "disorder" at all, but simply a different means of thought and
>>>  focus which is less well adapted to life in the school and the
>>
>>  > workplace, which makes a certain amount of sense to me.)
>>
>>         Except that ADHD also makes it difficult to adapt to
>> everything else, too.  ADHD kids have just as hard a time
>> playing sports as they do in the classroom -- everything we
>> do in life requires some kind of focus.
>
>
> That's not true of the people I know who are diagnosed with ADHD.
> They seem to hyperfocus during sports, which tends to make them
> excellent (and dedicated) athletes. My sweetie Lynn was just very
> recently diagnosed while in the process of getting a diagnosis for
> her teenaged son -- the mother has two black belts and the son is a
> championship soccer player. Lynn, from my observation, seems to need
> explosive physical activity to maintain her equilibrium and focus,
> and this is fairly typical of the other ADHDers I know.
>


        It is true of many of the 35 or so ADHD children I teach
every day.  Most of them play sports, and sports are helpful
for them, but they have a hard time sticking with the
disciplined routine required by team sports on the high
school level.


>>>
>>  > I've never seen any evidence, nor do I believe, that a whack feels
>>
>>>  any different to a perv than to a vanilla. What makes the difference
>>
>>  > is what we do with the sensation.
>>
>>         I have oodles of evidence that different people perceive
>> stimuli differently.  It isn't "what you do with the

> And there are studies to back you up -- different people *do* have
> different thresholds for stimulus. However, there's no evidence that
> BDSMers have higher thresholds than anyone else, although we might
> have better skills for processing intense stimulus when we receive it.


        No, certainly not all BDSMers as a class.  I'm just wondering
if some do.  Especially those who like really tight
bondage/wrapping, etc.  There is no one thing true of all
BDSMers -- everyone is in it for a unique set of reasons.
For some I think it resolves sensory issues.


> I think that the large number of medical professionals we have in the
> scene would have noticed by now if their kinky patients had
> noticeably different pain reactions than their vanilla ones. (I
> *have* heard of the opposite problem -- the health professional who
> underprescribes pain medication to the kinky person because they
> think we perceive pain somehow differently than anybody else.)


        I'm not sure how they would notice that if everyone is
processing the pain differently.


> Speaking from my own experience, I'm a huge baby when it comes to
> unintentional pain. Headaches, backaches, menstrual cramps and minor
> injuries send me running for the Vicodin bottle. Yet I am considered
> an unusually heavy masochist among the people with whom I hang out --
> who have a fairly high standard for such things.


        And I have a very high threshold for pain under any
circumstances.  It took me over a week to notice that I was
having headaches as a result of blood pressure issues
(covera is useless) -- I just didn't notice it until I was
asked to pay attention.  I am often bruised up and don't
remember how it happened -- many types of pain just never
register for me.  My experience is no more or less valid
than yours.  I'm not saying all BDSMers experience pain
differently than those who are not -- I'm saying some may be
into BDSM because they do (and many non-BDSMers with he same
issues don't choose to go that route).



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Party Preparations
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> I'm already pooped, and it's going to be a long night.  I
> have 7 first graders sleeping over tonight for Ana's
> birthday party.  The cake is in the oven, the house is
> cleaned up, I have snacks, pancake mix and oj for the
> morning, sheets and blankets are in the wash, and the prize
> vault is stocked. Now I have to figure out what kind of
> games we're going to play and hope the weather doesn't
> discourage anyone (although all the girls live within a mile
> or so of the house).
>
> Wheee :).
>
> --
> Rita Rouvalis Chapman

You're a good mama.

        - D. M.

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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At 01:45 PM 2/15/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Many happy returns of the day. I don't have the birthday list anymore that I
>once received, so the how maniest would this be? Theo

65

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 13:17:01 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:13:14 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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You can listen on-line to the rally now (2 pm) at
http://www.kpfa.org
Also coverage from Madrid and elsewhere. Right now there is a woman from
India speaking to the people of NY.

--
alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 13:21:34 2003
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In a message dated 2/15/2003 11:36:53 AM, rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<         Theo, have you ever stopped to consider that a) your brain
damage is a little more extensive than the doctors' let on
b) you contradict yourself continuously and c) a
five-year-old is not necessarily an expert on everything
that happens around him or her?
 >>

ROFL, this made my day for sure! To answer your question:
a) The damage was purely physical, and my thinking part was never damaged at
all because that is in front, and it was the right side that got busted.
b) Just because you can't comprehend what I write, does not mean that I am
contradicting myself.
c) I never claimed to be an expert on any subject, but I could read before I
started school, so I could also understand what my elders reported on this
subject. Not to mention that I still recall hiding out under the stairs when
the Germans were bombing Rotterdam where I was born, and recalling how
frightened I was when my Father left to go outside, so he could hear better
and find out if the bombing had stopped.
Any more objections? I did not start this discussion, and would not object to
stopping it, but if untruths are quoted, you can't blame me for responding,
can you?
Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 13:24:29 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:22:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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>From another list:

This site has a handy tool where you can upload a
scanned image and it will try to match the font:

http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/

Also, this site is great if you don't have an image scanned. It asks you a
series of questions about the font, then gives you possible matches.

http://www.identifont.com/


Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:24:04 -0500
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> I am wondering why those who organize these
> marches and protests here and around the world
> never address Saddam with signs that say
> "comply with the U. N."  "Avoid war" etc. etc.
> Does that mean that they do believe Saddam has
> reported honestly to the U. N.?

No. I don't think anyone believes that. It is just that he has been
contained all these years and can continue to be.
The marches and rallies are about not having a war. Saddam is not
threatening war, so signs are not addressed to him.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 11:28:00 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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>  > And there are studies to back you up -- different people *do* have
>>  different thresholds for stimulus. However, there's no evidence that
>>  BDSMers have higher thresholds than anyone else, although we might
>  > have better skills for processing intense stimulus when we receive it.
>
>         No, certainly not all BDSMers as a class.  I'm just wondering
>if some do.  Especially those who like really tight
>bondage/wrapping, etc.  There is no one thing true of all
>BDSMers -- everyone is in it for a unique set of reasons.
>For some I think it resolves sensory issues.

I think there are about as many different reasons for doing BDSM as
there are for doing any other kind of sex. For some people it
fulfills a fantasy of power or powerlessness. Some require the
catharsis in order to deal with strong emotion. Some need the
endorphins to maintain focus and clarity. Some are wired so that
certain body parts, often  the nipples or butt, are erogenous zones
that don't receive strong enough sensation during conventional sex to
trigger the erotic response. Some need their brains "turned off" by
being fully controlled, or need the sense of discipline and focus
required by submission. Etc., etc.

So, yes. Some BDSMers undoubtedly use BDSM at least partially for
resolving sensory issues. Also, some BDSMers probably prefer their
meat well-done while others like it blood-rare, and some BDSMers
probably prefer vanilla ice cream to pistachio. I'm not sure how
useful it is to talk about what some BDSMers do unless there's reason
to believe that we do it more often than the general population.

>  > I think that the large number of medical professionals we have in the
>>  scene would have noticed by now if their kinky patients had
>>  noticeably different pain reactions than their vanilla ones. (I
>  > *have* heard of the opposite problem -- the health professional who
>  > underprescribes pain medication to the kinky person because they
>  > think we perceive pain somehow differently than anybody else.)
>
>         I'm not sure how they would notice that if everyone is
>processing the pain differently.

Pretty easy, I'd think, to notice how different populations react to
things like chiropractic adjustments, blood draws, and other painful
medical procedures.

I think the reason I'm reacting so negatively to your theory is that
it has the potential to contribute to the pernicious idea that
masochists "don't feel pain." I've had otherwise sensible people say
to me, "I'm not a masochist like you, to me, pain *hurts*." Well,
duh. If it doesn't hurt, why do it? The question is -- what do we get
from the pain?

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 13:43:58 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:41:30 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Estimated attendance at NYC rally is 500,000. Figured at 7,000 people
per block, which is the usual police method. Arrests are being made and
feeder marches are unable to join the main group. People are massed
solidly on First and Third Aves. up to the 80s. Second Avenue is
barricaded to prevent the two avenues' groups from joining each other.
The Bread and Puppet Theatre and its 300 puppets are temporarily not
found. Maybe they can't cross Second Ave. (?)

alyce

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:42:59 EST
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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In a message dated 2/15/2003 12:13:49 PM, cwv@PANAX.COM writes:

<< >Many happy returns of the day. I don't have the birthday list anymore
that I
>once received, so the how maniest would this be? Theo

65

 >>
Ohhhh.... You're creeping up on me! :-) I'm not sure about all the benefits
you receive from reaching it, because I don't go out much, but I do believe
Medicare goes into effect before you reach it. Don't quote me because I
hardly ever need medical care; it's *just* my brain that needed it mostly,
and no one has found a cure or replacement parts for it YET! :-( Theo

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:56:56 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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At 02:42 PM 2/15/2003 -0500, theo wrote:

>65
>
>  >>
>Ohhhh.... You're creeping up on me! :-) I'm not sure about all the benefits
>you receive from reaching it, because I don't go out much, but I do believe
>Medicare goes into effect before you reach it.

ayeh.  I started on Medicare as of 1 February.

cwv

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:05:09 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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Janet Hardy wrote:



> I think the reason I'm reacting so negatively to your theory is that
> it has the potential to contribute to the pernicious idea that
> masochists "don't feel pain." I've had otherwise sensible people say
> to me, "I'm not a masochist like you, to me, pain *hurts*." Well,
> duh. If it doesn't hurt, why do it? The question is -- what do we get
> from the pain?


        You're right.  Some people being stupid is an excellent
reason for me to stop questioning and thinking about stuff.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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In a message dated 2/15/2003 11:25:00 AM, rjaques@ONETEL.NET.UK writes:

<<  From the other side of the pond ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2765041.stm

>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
Roy
 >>

"Enjoyed" this, thanks, Roy
 Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 14:21:04 2003
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From: "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@flex.com>
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On 15 Feb 2003 at 13:45, Theodora Groothof wrote:

> I don't have the birthday list anymore that I once received, . . .

Try this as a substitute:

http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:22:17 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>her bowl for over 12 hours.) But I can't afford to feed her wet
>food all the time. So tonight I put half a can of wet food in
>with the dry food, and she ate it all up.

Add water to the dry food to moisten it.

I went to the nearby SPCA today to visit the dogs -- just to see if there
was anyone there I could imagine taking home. More than half of the dogs
there were pit bulls, mostly a couple of years old. There was one really
cute one just 10 weeks old -- tan and white and quite sweet looking. Then
there were a lot of big scary dogs. None of them made me feel comfortable,
some were downright fierce. One Rottweiler was jumping so high to get at me,
I really thought he might come over the fence.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 14:27:02 2003
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Subject: introduction
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:15:11 -0600
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Greetings!

I am new to the list, having found y'all on a browse through
linguistically-related web sites. A day's worth of listening convinces me
that this is less about words linguistic and more about words personal. But
it sounds like fun. Is a newcomer welcome to join?

I am about to turn 60. We live in northern Iowa - Mason City, where
everything is River City this and 76 trombones that. But the architecture
more than makes up for any cultural simplicity. Two Frank Lloyd Wright
houses, 2 more by his son, and a multitude built by one of his students --
Sullivan I think the name is. And classic examples of Federal, Colonial,
Bungalow... do you get the idea I like Architecture?

I do consulting for three rather large law firms, helping them with
"translating" the hidden language in deposition transcripts. In other words,
I try to help them figure out what the opposition is really thinking. It is
fun. My husband is a fine woodworker. He makes reproduction early American
pieces, using only hand tools ala the Woodwright.

We have 6 cats, 2 ferrets, associated birds and squirrels and other
neighborhood fauna and a passion for medieval history.

Again, are you welcoming new members?

Joanne

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:26:48 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Joanne Jemison wrote:
>
> Again, are you welcoming new members?

Yes, inasmuch as you have ferrets.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 14:31:43 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:29:52 -0500
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>From: Roy Jaques <rjaques@ONETEL.NET.UK>
>The four million arabs and other immigrants are the reason the
>French voted for Le Pen. It's not just anti-jewish, it's
>anti-immigrant.

Oh, okay, that's *much* better.

>People do
>not like those who are different, regardless of where that society
>is located.

Speak for yourself.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 14:32:27 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:31:20 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Only if you tell us how you feel about architecture as a verb.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 14:36:28 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      introduction
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 14:38:27 -0600
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> Greetings!
>
> I am new to the list, having found y'all on a browse through
> linguistically-related web sites. A day's worth of listening convinces
me
> that this is less about words linguistic and more about words
personal. But
> it sounds like fun. Is a newcomer welcome to join?
>
> I am about to turn 60. We live in northern Iowa - Mason City, where
> everything is River City this and 76 trombones that. But the
architecture
> more than makes up for any cultural simplicity. Two Frank Lloyd Wright
> houses, 2 more by his son, and a multitude built by one of his
students --
> Sullivan I think the name is. And classic examples of Federal,
Colonial,
> Bungalow... do you get the idea I like Architecture?
>
> I do consulting for three rather large law firms, helping them with
> "translating" the hidden language in deposition transcripts. In other
words,
> I try to help them figure out what the opposition is really thinking.
It is
> fun. My husband is a fine woodworker. He makes reproduction early
American
> pieces, using only hand tools ala the Woodwright.
>
> We have 6 cats, 2 ferrets, associated birds and squirrels and other
> neighborhood fauna and a passion for medieval history.
>
> Again, are you welcoming new members?
>
> Joanne

Most certainly, and a special welcome to you from
this former Iowan.  (I grew up in Stanhope, just south
of Webster City but now live in Nebraska).

Your work sounds fascinating . . and so does your
husband's.

I think you'll find, over time, that although this list
seems to be light chatter, it does have to do with words . . .
it's more fun to explore their possibilities by using them
than by talking <about them>, although we do that too.

Come again, please.

                        - Doris Markland

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 14:37:13 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: introduction
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>Again, are you welcoming new members?
>
>Joanne

Absolutely!  Welcome, Joanne.  We usually get along much better than we
have lately.  Cabin fever is getting to people, I think.

Does your husband have a web page to show off his work? Sounds as if he
does more than just watch the corn grow!

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 14:48:17 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: introduction
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>From: Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM>
>... do you get the idea I like Architecture?

How do you feel about "architecting"?  (who says we don't talk about words?)

Welcome. New blood is always welcome.

Iowa, lots of chickens there, right? I have been wondering recently, mostly
urban type person that I am -- is it true that they continue to run after
having their heads cut off? Have you ever seen this?

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 14:57:03 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:55:15 -0500
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>From: Theodora Groothof <Groothof2@AOL.COM>
>In a message dated 2/15/2003 2:33:50 AM, rjaques@ONETEL.NET.UK writes:
><< Should anyone wish to point out the anti-semitic history of any
>country, the discrimination in your own country should be looked
>at first.
> >
> > Marie
>  >>
>
>Right you are my friend. Theo

Careful, Theo. You WENT OFF on someone for attributing something to you that
you didn't say, yet you leave my name here when I did not say the above. Not
that I have a problem with Roy's statement.

Marie


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 15:03:57 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 13:03:44 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
In-reply-to: <200302151204.18K8yk2gr3NZFl40@penguin>
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>  I think the reason I'm reacting so negatively to your theory is that
>>  it has the potential to contribute to the pernicious idea that
>>  masochists "don't feel pain." I've had otherwise sensible people say
>>  to me, "I'm not a masochist like you, to me, pain *hurts*." Well,
>>  duh. If it doesn't hurt, why do it? The question is -- what do we get
>  > from the pain?
>
>         You're right.  Some people being stupid is an excellent
>reason for me to stop questioning and thinking about stuff.

Go ahead and question. But be aware that your line of questioning,
besides being (IMO) fruitless, could easily be used in a way that I'm
sure you wouldn't approve of.

Janet

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On 15 Feb 2003 at 14:15, Joanne Jemison wrote:

> We have 6 cats, 2 ferrets, associated birds and squirrels and other
> neighborhood fauna and a passion for medieval history.

Anybody who has brought multiple cats, ferrets, birds, and squirrels
into a state of coexistence probably belongs in this weird
assemblage. Pull up a chair.

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:10:20 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Betty wrote:

>> Again, are you welcoming new members?
>>
>> Joanne
>
>
> Absolutely!  Welcome, Joanne.  We usually get along much better than we
> have lately.  Cabin fever is getting to people, I think.
>


        Liar! Liar!  Pants on fire!



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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>Joanne Jemison wrote:
>
> > Again, are you welcoming new members?
>
>Yes, inasmuch as you have ferrets.
>alyce

Yes, inasmuch as you have cats and are a woman of a certain age.   Welcome.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:26:24 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>> Janet Hardy wrote:
>>
>>>  I think the reason I'm reacting so negatively to your theory is that
>>>  it has the potential to contribute to the pernicious idea that
>>>  masochists "don't feel pain." I've had otherwise sensible people say
>>>  to me, "I'm not a masochist like you, to me, pain *hurts*." Well,
>>>  duh. If it doesn't hurt, why do it? The question is -- what do we get
>>
>>  > from the pain?
>>
>>         You're right.  Some people being stupid is an excellent
>> reason for me to stop questioning and thinking about stuff.
>
>
> Go ahead and question. But be aware that your line of questioning,
> besides being (IMO) fruitless, could easily be used in a way that I'm
> sure you wouldn't approve of.
>


        Yeah, right.  As if anybody pays attention to what I think.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] introduction
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Rita Chapman" <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 2:31 PM
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] introduction


> Only if you tell us how you feel about architecture as a verb.
>
Hello. My name is look. I am a verb. Without me, people would not be able to
appreciate architecture. With me, great pleasure is possible. Every day, I
am used with great joy by people who love architecture. "Look at that
beautiful building."  "Look at that cornice treatment."  It is good to be
such a wonderful verb. Life is very fulling.

Think of me the next time you look at a beautiful building.

Yours for more art appreciation,

Look

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:39:48 -0600
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Doris Markland wrote:

> I am wondering why those who organize these
> marches and protests here and around the world
> never address Saddam with signs that say
> "comply with the U. N."  "Avoid war" etc. etc.
> Does that mean that they do believe Saddam has
> reported honestly to the U. N.?

Some might believe that, although I doubt that many do.  But the point
of these marches and protests is to say no to war -- to say no to the
USA's attacking another country.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> I thought it began with Marie's talking about an upcoming wine-tasting
> party.
>
Yes, very closely followed by Doris' post about having heard something
about French anti-semitism on TV as she passed through the room.

alyce

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At 03:10 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>Betty wrote:
>
>>>Again, are you welcoming new members?
>>>
>>>Joanne
>>
>>
>>Absolutely!  Welcome, Joanne.  We usually get along much better than we
>>have lately.  Cabin fever is getting to people, I think.
>
>
>        Liar! Liar!  Pants on fire!

:-)

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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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In a message dated 2/15/2003 1:19:44 PM, mem@FLEX.COM writes:

<< Try this as a substitute:

http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html
 >>

thanks! :-)

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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
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> Iowa, lots of chickens there, right? I have been wondering recently,
mostly
> urban type person that I am -- is it true that they continue to run after
> having their heads cut off? Have you ever seen this?
>
> Marie
>
Not many chickens in my neck of the woods. Geese, lots of geese. They stop
honking when you cut their heads off, but that's only hearsay on my part. I
can say definitively that I have never seen a chicken have its head cut off.
So I cannot say with any certainty that they run about. I do however sense a
trap in your question, which is why I am running in a different direction.

Joanne, familiar with some initiation rituals

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:36:38 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Roy Jaques wrote:

> > I'd been wondering when Roy was going to resurface.  I've been thinking
> > about how his boy Tony is interfering with his opportunity to talk about
> > the wicked US behavior.  (It's true, of course, that Tony might not have
> > gotten this mess started by himself -- that Dubya egged him on in it.)
> >
> Not quite sure what you mean.

Just that you are constantly pointing out the wicked ways of the USA.

> If the UN don't agree to the invasion and Blair and Bush invade anyway
> then he will have a real problem keeping the job he has now.

I hope that will be the case here also.  What I really hope is that the
invasion doesn't happen, of course, but it will be nice if Dubya's
maniacal behavior will get rid of anyway.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030215145426.00b58600@mail.panax.com>                
            <009001c2d52e$f3652820$09e4da0c@mchsi.com>                      
            <3E4EA288.AA50ADFB@valstar.net>  <3E4EA398.8030805@swbell.net> 
            <001f01c2d539$27825420$09e4da0c@mchsi.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: introduction
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:40:40 -0600
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> >
> Hello. My name is look. I am a verb. Without me, people would not be
able to
> appreciate architecture. With me, great pleasure is possible. Every
day, I
> am used with great joy by people who love architecture. "Look at that
> beautiful building."  "Look at that cornice treatment."  It is good to
be
> such a wonderful verb. Life is very fulling.
>
> Think of me the next time you look at a beautiful building.
>
> Yours for more art appreciation,
>
> Look


KOOL!

   - D. M.

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:37:04 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Marker on Plate Rim
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> Use nail polish remover.

Thanks.  That's a good possibility.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 15:54:49 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:43:13 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> << What I was responding to above was your statement that "nobody turned in
> the Frank family."   >>
>
> I never stated that, only that it couldn't have been the French because the
> Frank family was hiding out in Holland. Don't twist my words if you please.

Here are your exact words:

| The Franks were living in Holland, and were not turned over
|         to the nazis by anyone.

Indeed I see that I badly twisted your words by turning "The
Franks...were not turned over to the nazis by anyone" into "nobody
turned in the Frank family."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:32:21 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Or a paper plate.

That would have been the best idea.  I started to say I wouldn't have
had one small enough.  (It needed to be salad plate size, not dinner
plate.)  But then I remembered that I did indeed have some smallish
paper plates.  Oh well.

The march was good.  I don't know how many people there were (since I'm
a terrible judge of numbers), but it was a pretty big number and diverse
in things like age, race, gender.  And the rain didn't pour -- just a
few drops.  The speeches at the rally were good (though of course
speeches on such occasions are preaching to the choir).

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:45:23 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> > << Should anyone wish to point out the anti-semitic history of any
> > country, the discrimination in your own country should be looked
> > at first.
> >
> > Right you are my friend. Theo
>
> That particular discussion began not
> as a criticism of France but rather as
> quoting someone on TV who said
> that France's growing anti-Semitism
> may in part explain their animosity
> toward the U. S.

I thought it began with Marie's talking about an upcoming wine-tasting
party.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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            <002b01c2d539$881dc620$09e4da0c@mchsi.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: introduction
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:41:35 -0600
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> Not many chickens in my neck of the woods. Geese, lots of geese. They
stop
> honking when you cut their heads off, but that's only hearsay on my
part. I
> can say definitively that I have never seen a chicken have its head
cut off.
> So I cannot say with any certainty that they run about. I do however
sense a
> trap in your question, which is why I am running in a different
direction.
>
> Joanne, familiar with some initiation rituals



You are very smart.

      - D. M.

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:59:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> You can listen on-line to the rally now (2 pm) at
> http://www.kpfa.org
> Also coverage from Madrid and elsewhere. Right now there is a woman from
> India speaking to the people of NY.

<sigh>  I bet Starkville wasn't included in that coverage.  But I did
see the editor of the Starkville Daily News at the rally.  And a
newsperson from Columbus tv was interviewing some people right before
the march.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 15:55:17 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Party Preparations
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> I'm already pooped, and it's going to be a long night.  I
> have 7 first graders sleeping over tonight for Ana's

Oooh.  You are indeed going to be in for a long night.  Then again,
maybe they're still young enough that sleep will overtake them at some
point -- that it won't be the kind of up-all-night parties she'll have
when she's a bit older.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 16:15:47 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:04:07 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> but I do believe
> Medicare goes into effect before you reach it. Don't quote me because I
> hardly ever need medical care;

Medicare clicks in when you hit 65.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:16:51 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Party Preparations
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>I'm already pooped, and it's going to be a long night.  I
>>have 7 first graders sleeping over tonight for Ana's
>>
>
> Oooh.  You are indeed going to be in for a long night.  Then again,
> maybe they're still young enough that sleep will overtake them at some
> point -- that it won't be the kind of up-all-night parties she'll have
> when she's a bit older.


        The cake is a masterpiece.  I outdid myself.

        At 8:00, there's a Peanuts special on TV.  Then I'll read
them Junie B. Jones's Mushy Gushy Valentine, then pop in a
video (probably Spirit).  I think most of them will be out
by 10:30 or 11:00.  Their Sunday School teachers are going
to *love* me tomorrow -- of course, Ana's Sunday School
teacher is the parent of one of the girls staying over :).




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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At 04:19 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, natalie wrote:

>I'm being very polite in not asking the obvious question yet:  Why no
>dogs??

Clearly, because she is a woman of impeccable judgment.

cwv

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On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>Medicare clicks in when you hit 65.

Only Part A (Hospital), if you are still working and have health insurance
through your job. (You have to pay for Part B.)

Bethany

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:38:01 -0500
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For some inexplicable but probably bizarre reason, today I have thought
about Myles.  Thus, I offer this story:

A group of reporters from the USA were in Africa to see and write about the
wildlife therein.  It happened that they were in about the right place, and
almost the right time, to view the annual migration of the wildebeest, when
millions of these animals are on the move.   With a local wildlife officer,
they stationed themselves, at dawn, to witness the spectacle.  The wildlife
officer said that the wildebeest had been bedded down all night.  Come
morning, as they awoke and smelled the fresh water of the great river, just
a few miles away, they could be expected to arise and, as one, stampede to
the river to quench their thirsts.
The sun peeped over the horizon, bringing light upon the multitude of
wildebeest rousing from their slumber.  Then, about ten such animals took
off at a rapid pace toward the river.  The remainder of the herd remained
at rest.  When the reporters expressed astonishment at this, the wildlife
officer shrugged and said:

"Well, that's all the gnus that's fit to sprint."

cwv

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At 03:46 PM 2/15/03 -0500, Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:

>... chickens ... -- is it true that they continue to run after having
their heads cut off? Have you ever seen this?

Yes, they do.

Yes, I saw this, when I was young and living on a farm.

Jim McIntosh <jemcinto@idirect.ca>

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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:

> ayeh.  I started on Medicare as of 1 February.

Oops.  I bet I know the answer:  Medicare clicks in on the 1st day of
the month in which you hit 65.  I should've figured that.  Things like
Medicare and social security seem to be into whole-month units.  Like
social security stops on the 1st day of the month you die.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 04:04 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, natalie wrote:

>Medicare clicks in when you hit 65.

To be more precise, Medicare clicks in on the first day of the month in
which you attain 65.

cwv

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:10:32 -0600
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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> Again, are you welcoming new members?

Absolutely!  And you sound like an excellent addition to our group.  One
plus is your good attitude:  that you joined thinking we would be
discussing language but didn't get mad at us when you discovered that we
weren't.  (We do sometimes discuss language, btw.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty wrote:

> Absolutely!  Welcome, Joanne.  We usually get along much better than we
> have lately.  Cabin fever is getting to people, I think.

I haven't noticed that we're not getting along lately.  We frequently
argue about things, but somehow it doesn't strike me (at least most of
the time) as serious.  We may be serious in our conflicting attitudes,
but it does not mean that we hate the person we're arguing with.  We're
just a <passionate> group -- or some people are <passionate> on some
topics.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:

> >Yes, inasmuch as you have ferrets.
> >alyce
>
> Yes, inasmuch as you have cats and are a woman of a certain age.   Welcome.

I'm being very polite in not asking the obvious question yet:  Why no
dogs??

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> Joanne, familiar with some initiation rituals

Not bad!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:23:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, alyce cresap wrote:

>> Again, are you welcoming new members?
>
>Yes, inasmuch as you have ferrets.

And also inasmuch as you "do consulting for three rather large law firms,
helping them with "translating" the hidden language in deposition
transcripts .... [and] try to help them figure out what the opposition is
really thinking."

Welcome!

Bethany

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:24:05 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> "clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
>
> > ayeh.  I started on Medicare as of 1 February.
>
> Oops.  I bet I know the answer:  Medicare clicks in on the 1st day of
> the month in which you hit 65.

Yes, and you must register well in advance or it will not start until
either the next January or July. I never took Part B because of my own
fine insurance. I decided a few weeks ago that in light of my
<condition>, I might need all the insurance I could get, so I tried to
sign up. Luckily I did it in January, but still it will not kick in
until July 1. Had I not done it in January, I'd have had to wait until
July and it would not have started till January 2004.

alyce

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At 02:15 PM 2/15/03 -0600, Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM> wrote:

>Again, are you welcoming new members?

I welcome you, but actually I am not an insider either.

The current fight seems to be between Theo and some others, but Natalie and
Karen Kay had a long one just a little while ago.

And earlier, Bethany and the parking garage encounter lasted for a long time.

It's not all fighting, obviously.

Jim McIntosh.

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 06:56 , Doris Markland wrote:
>
> That particular discussion began not
> as a criticism of France but rather as
> quoting someone on TV who said
> that France's growing anti-Semitism
> may in part explain their animosity
> toward the U. S.

No it doesn't. They don't like the US because they are French. They
don't like the English either, but they try to tolerate the
neighbours. Well most of the time anyway.
>
>                - D. M.
>
Roy

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Rita:

  >      Nobody, but NOBODY is gayer than Tushar.

He eats particularly str8 boy food, though.

-rashmi

_________________________________________________________________
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On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 08:29 , Marie Ascher wrote:

>> From: Roy Jaques <rjaques@ONETEL.NET.UK>
>> The four million arabs and other immigrants are the reason the
>> French voted for Le Pen. It's not just anti-jewish, it's
>> anti-immigrant.
>
> Oh, okay, that's *much* better.

I'm explaining it, not justifying it. When you consider the scale of the
demonstrations against the Front National when he reached the final round
of the Presidential elections, France then voted for Chirac and made sure
that he did not win, it was very clear cut.
>
>> People do
>> not like those who are different, regardless of where that society
>> is located.
>
> Speak for yourself.

We all have prejudices.
>
> Marie
>
Roy

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 16:52:59 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:41:38 +0000
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I'm back, I'm back, I'm back! Security at Schiphol seemed "normal".
Thorough and serious but not panic-inducing. We got a great
view of Greenland as we flew over - for once I was sitting on
the correct side of the plane. I decided to pass on Home Depot
and not bother with duct tape and plastic sheets - sure hope
Saddam doesn't strike this weekend.

First thing I did on coming back was shovel the driveway.
And again this afternoon. :-/

It was a good trip but it's great to be back.

-rashmi



_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 16:56:50 2003
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Message-ID: <000401c2d545$cf672ba0$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <3E4E80B5.8D0813A5@maynor.net> <3E4E8211.57CD7BAD@valstar.net>     
            <3E4E8370.C3F8BD59@maynor.net>           
            <003501c2d520$73828ac0$460332d1@0018079268> 
            <3E4EB3A4.D81DD75F@maynor.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Marker on Plate Rim
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:58:51 -0600
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> Doris Markland wrote:
>
> > I am wondering why those who organize these
> > marches and protests here and around the world
> > never address Saddam with signs that say
> > "comply with the U. N."  "Avoid war" etc. etc.
> > Does that mean that they do believe Saddam has
> > reported honestly to the U. N.?
>
> Some might believe that, although I doubt that many do.  But the point
> of these marches and protests is to say no to war -- to say no to the
> USA's attacking another country.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

It might go down in history yet then that
George Bush united the world finally
in one thing.  They do not want war.

Now if the marchers could just come up
with an answer as to how to make the
United Nations work.

               - D. M.

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:55:35 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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        Take note, Pete.

Joanne Jemison wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rita Chapman" <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET>
> To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 2:31 PM
> Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] introduction
>
>
>
>>Only if you tell us how you feel about architecture as a verb.
>>
>>
> Hello. My name is look. I am a verb. Without me, people would not be able to
> appreciate architecture. With me, great pleasure is possible. Every day, I
> am used with great joy by people who love architecture. "Look at that
> beautiful building."  "Look at that cornice treatment."  It is good to be
> such a wonderful verb. Life is very fulling.
>
> Think of me the next time you look at a beautiful building.
>
> Yours for more art appreciation,
>
> Look
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:01:33 2003
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Subject: Re: Marker on Plate Rim
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On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 10:58 , Doris Markland wrote:
>
> It might go down in history yet then that
> George Bush united the world finally
> in one thing.  They do not want war.
>
> Now if the marchers could just come up
> with an answer as to how to make the
> United Nations work.
>
The UN does work. It just doesn't work the way your government wants it to.

>                - D. M.
>
Roy

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:02:04 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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            <3E4EB4F3.85272F27@maynor.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 16:46:32 -0600
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> Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> > > << Should anyone wish to point out the anti-semitic history of any
> > > country, the discrimination in your own country should be looked
> > > at first.
> > >
> > > Right you are my friend. Theo
> >
> > That particular discussion began not
> > as a criticism of France but rather as
> > quoting someone on TV who said
> > that France's growing anti-Semitism
> > may in part explain their animosity
> > toward the U. S.
>
> I thought it began with Marie's talking about an upcoming wine-tasting
> party.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

That first, yes.

     - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:02:04 2003
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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 09:36 , Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Roy Jaques wrote:
>
>>> I'd been wondering when Roy was going to resurface.  I've been thinking
>>> about how his boy Tony is interfering with his opportunity to talk about
>>> the wicked US behavior.  (It's true, of course, that Tony might not have
>>> gotten this mess started by himself -- that Dubya egged him on in it.)
>>>
>> Not quite sure what you mean.
>
> Just that you are constantly pointing out the wicked ways of the USA.

I don't think that is necessary, it's own citizens seem to be
demonstrating their opposition this time.
>
>> If the UN don't agree to the invasion and Blair and Bush invade anyway
>> then he will have a real problem keeping the job he has now.
>
> I hope that will be the case here also.  What I really hope is that the
> invasion doesn't happen, of course, but it will be nice if Dubya's
> maniacal behavior will get rid of anyway.

Explain that, the last bit doesn't make sense.

Assuming you mean he will not win your next election. We don't need a
general election for the Prime Minister to change it will be his own party
that will remove him.
>
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
Roy

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:04:48 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:52:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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>>... chickens ... -- is it true that they continue to run after having
>their heads cut off? Have you ever seen this?
>
>Yes, they do.
>
>Yes, I saw this, when I was young and living on a farm.

Me too.

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:05:26 2003
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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, James McIntosh wrote:

>And earlier, Bethany and the parking garage encounter lasted for a long time.

Parking lot. (See, we can pick up anytime!)

Bethany

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <3D7EDABA-4139-11D7-9CA1-00039383D034@onetel.net.uk>
Subject: Re:      Re: Marker on Plate Rim
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:11:55 -0600
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> On Saturday, February 15, 2003, at 10:58 , Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> > It might go down in history yet then that
> > George Bush united the world finally
> > in one thing.  They do not want war.
> >
> > Now if the marchers could just come up
> > with an answer as to how to make the
> > United Nations work.
> >
> The UN does work. It just doesn't work the way your government wants
it to.
>
> >                - D. M.
> >
> Roy

I disagree but I'm not going to argue.
I don't have time for the research to
cite examples.

             - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:10:53 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:09:04 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> > Oops.  I bet I know the answer:  Medicare clicks in on the 1st day of
> > the month in which you hit 65.
>
> Yes, and you must register well in advance or it will not start until

Yes, I do know that.

> either the next January or July. I never took Part B because of my own
> fine insurance. I decided a few weeks ago that in light of my

I've already decided to say yes to Part B.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:12:39 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:10:43 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> It was a good trip but it's great to be back.

And we are happy to have you back! I always feel better when everyone is
where s/he's supposed to be.

alyce
>

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:13:19 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:11:32 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> >Medicare clicks in when you hit 65.
>
> Only Part A (Hospital), if you are still working and have health insurance
> through your job. (You have to pay for Part B.)

? I plan to have health insurance forever, but I also plan to do Part B
of Medicare.  And yes, I know that you have to pay for Part B -- as in
pay for it in addition to what you've already paid for Part A.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:14:46 2003
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I'm forwarding this one to the cajun chemist who tells jokes everyday at
lunch.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:16:05 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:14:24 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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This is from a friend who was there today:

The march was huge.  Since we were not allowed to march, the cops were
busy funneling feeder marches hither and thither, which meant  that we
tied up the East Side streets for many hours.  And it also meant that we
had to entertain ourselves instead of listening to boring speeches.  So
there was pretty high morale.  And some of the newcomers to demos
learned about flouting police authority in relatively safe and soft
ways.

All in all, a real up experience, tho cold as hell weatherwise.
-------------
N.B. from Alyce--This is to be the coldest night of the year, possibly
25-30 below zero. May even break the record.
All week it has been extremely cold, zero or below each night and highs
under 20F.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:17:38 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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> Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> >
> > It was a good trip but it's great to be back.
>
> And we are happy to have you back! I always feel better when everyone
is
> where s/he's supposed to be.
>
> alyce
> >

Now we must plastic sheet her door
and tape her in so she stays here.

                   - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:17:57 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:16:14 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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James McIntosh wrote:

> I welcome you, but actually I am not an insider either.

That's because you rarely speak up.  The only <insider> thing is
speakers vs lurkers.

> The current fight seems to be between Theo and some others, but Natalie and
> Karen Kay had a long one just a little while ago.

I can't remember what it was about.

> And earlier, Bethany and the parking garage encounter lasted for a long time.

?  My memory is that that one was far, far from "a long time."  I'd
forgotten about it but now do remember it as maybe one or two days of
entertainment.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:22:02 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:20:10 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
> Now if the marchers could just come up
> with an answer as to how to make the
> United Nations work.

The UN works just fine if we let it. And don't forget that there is much
more to the UN than the Security Council and its resolutions. Consider
World Health, AIDS, Refugees--ever so many things are carried on by the
UN. We'd be sorry if it were not there. Speaking of refugees, the man
who administers all the world's refugee aid for the UN says that no one
from the US government has approached him either with questions or plans
for the inevitable increase in refugees that would occur in case of war.
He is wondering how the UN is to handle a new burden of this nature and
would welcome consultation.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:20:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 2:22:17 PM, you wrote:
> Add water to the dry food to moisten it.

You are Very Smart. I was concerned about adding water, since I
thought it might disintegrate, but it stayed integral long enough
to fall victim to her sharp little teeth.

If I could find a way to comb her belly and scratch her head at
the same time, I think she would let me. I need to get someone
else to hold her down and pet her while I comb her. She looks
much better already--I did her ruff tonight.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:22:39 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
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Natalie Maynor wrote:


>>The current fight seems to be between Theo and some others, but Natalie and
>>Karen Kay had a long one just a little while ago.
>>
>
> I can't remember what it was about.
>


        That's because you've been having the same argument, more or
less, since 1991.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:24:03 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:22:22 -0500
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>  in addition to what you've already paid for Part A.

You don't pay for A, do you? I've never had anything deducted.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:24:36 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:22:46 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Roy Jaques wrote:

> > Just that you are constantly pointing out the wicked ways of the USA.
>
> I don't think that is necessary, it's own citizens seem to be
> demonstrating their opposition this time.

Its own citizens have demonstrated opposition to many things.  There's
nothing new about that.  As somebody said at today's rally, what we were
doing today was what this country is all about -- it is patriotism at
its strongest.

> >> If the UN don't agree to the invasion and Blair and Bush invade anyway
> >> then he will have a real problem keeping the job he has now.
> >
> > I hope that will be the case here also.  What I really hope is that the
> > invasion doesn't happen, of course, but it will be nice if Dubya's
> > maniacal behavior will get rid of anyway.
>
> Explain that, the last bit doesn't make sense.

Oops.  I left out a pronoun -- it will be nice if Dubya's maniacal
behavior will get rid of HIM anyway.

> Assuming you mean he will not win your next election. We don't need a
> general election for the Prime Minister to change it will be his own party
> that will remove him.

Yes, I know that.  I don't really think impeachment is likely in Dubya's
case, which is the only way (impeachment followed by <conviction>) to
get rid of a President other than at election time.  I know that's not
how it works in the UK or in lots of other countries.  What I'm hoping
is that he will be gotten rid of at the next election.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:25:41 2003
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Doris Markland wrote:

> Now if the marchers could just come up
> with an answer as to how to make the
> United Nations work.

I don't get this.  What's not working about it?  Seems to me it's
working quite well.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:26:16 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:24:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 5:20:10 PM, you wrote:
> The UN works just fine if we let it.

Did we ever pay our overdue dues?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:27:15 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:25:22 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

 What I'm hoping
> is that he will be gotten rid of at the next election.

Yes. There was a sign at one of the rallies today: Stamp out Mad Cow-boy
Disease.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:28:19 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:26:32 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Roy Jaques wrote:

> The UN does work. It just doesn't work the way your government wants it to.

I should have added to my response above that I think the UN is working
fine right now but that I also think it's threatened.  If countries who
are prominent members of the UN start ignoring it and turning into rogue
attackers of other countries, then I do think it will suffer.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 5:20:10 PM, you wrote:
> > The UN works just fine if we let it.
>
> Did we ever pay our overdue dues?

We paid some last year, but I think not nearly all that we owe. I don't
understand why we should not be made to pay or else lose our vote or
something.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:30:30 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:28:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Marker on Plate Rim
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 5:26:56 PM, you wrote:
> We paid some last year, but I think not nearly all that we owe.

That was my impression.

> I don't understand why we should not be made to pay or else
> lose our vote or something.

That's because we are integral to world peace.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:38:54 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:36:21 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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>alyce cresap wrote:
> > > Oops.  I bet I know the answer:  Medicare clicks in on the 1st day of
> > > the month in which you hit 65.
> >
> > Yes, and you must register well in advance or it will not start until
>
>Yes, I do know that.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Clyde didn't have to do a thing.  If you are already receiving Social
Security checks, it's all automatic.  You get Part A and Part B unless you
speak up.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:40:33 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:47:46 AM, you wrote:
> Tonight we are going to an innkeepers' party at Coach Stop Inn---they
> provide the beer and wine, everyone else brings something.  I'm going to
> make Italian cherry bread---it's a sweet bread usually made with fresh wine
> grapes, which are hard to find in downeast Maine this time of year, so I'll
> use rehydrated tart cherries---and maybe some schiacciata.

I looooove fresh wine grapes.

What is schiacciata?

> Tomorrow night we dine at Mache Bistro.  Monday morning, if the forecast
> holds, we will go cross-country skiing.

Good exercise for an old man.:) HB, C!

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:43:18 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:41:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> And we are happy to have you back! I always feel better when everyone is
> where s/he's supposed to be.

Me too!  I've always found it funny in this virtual world we live in
that it matters to me where people are and that I'm happier when they're
where they're <supposed to be>.  Or at least in most cases.  Elaine's
case is different since I've never been quite sure (or at least not in
many years now) where she's <supposed to be>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:45:16 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:

> The march was huge.  Since we were not allowed to march, the cops were
> busy funneling feeder marches hither and thither, which meant  that we

So the march in NYC was without permission?

>  And some of the newcomers to demos
> learned about flouting police authority in relatively safe and soft
> ways.

A Starkville police car led our parade, flashing its blue lights and
turning on the siren briefly at intersections to stop cars from
interfering with us.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 6:15 PM -0500 15/2/03, Automatic digest processor wrote:
>Date:    Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:14:24 -0500
>From:    alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
>Subject: report from NYC
>
>This is from a friend who was there today:
>
>The march was huge.  Since we were not allowed to march, the cops were

Please explain!  Blair and Howard have both cited permission to hold
a protest march as an essential difference in the freedoms of people
living in the 'democracies' and Iraq.  Even though Howard went on to
say that he wasn't going to be influenced by any protest to change
his stance.

Carolyn

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>I'm being very polite in not asking the obvious question yet:  Why no
>dogs??


>Clearly, because she is a woman of impeccable judgment.


>cwv

Clearly, indeed.

Dogs stink and are most annoying.

AS

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Add water to the dry food to moisten it.
>
> You are Very Smart. I was concerned about adding water, since I
> thought it might disintegrate, but it stayed integral long enough
> to fall victim to her sharp little teeth.

I don't know about cats, but some people add a tiny bit of oil (olive
oil, wesson oil, whatever) to dry dog food if their dogs eat only dry.
Supposedly it helps the coat.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:46:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 5:44:06 PM, you wrote:
> Please explain!

Carolyn! I'm so happy to see you posting!

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:48:19 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:46:28 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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alyce cresap wrote:
> >  in addition to what you've already paid for Part A.
>
> You don't pay for A, do you? I've never had anything deducted.

Note my past tense.  You don't pay for it individually the way you do
Part B.  But you pay for it in advance as a deduction from your
paycheck.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:48:44 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:47:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 5:49:01 PM, you wrote:
> Dogs stink and are most annoying.

I wonder if cat hair makes good mulch.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:48:54 2003
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Rita Chapman wrote:

> > I can't remember what it was about.
> >
>         That's because you've been having the same argument, more or
> less, since 1991.

Probably.  But I still can't remember which one.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:49:42 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > The UN works just fine if we let it.
>
> Did we ever pay our overdue dues?

I don't think we've paid all of them yet, have we?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:51:02 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:

> That's because we are integral to world peace.

Right.  Bomb 'em in the name of peace.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:51:40 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:53:42 -0600
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> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:47:46 AM, you wrote:
> > Tonight we are going to an innkeepers' party at Coach Stop
Inn---they
> > provide the beer and wine, everyone else brings something.  I'm
going to
> > make Italian cherry bread---it's a sweet bread usually made with
fresh wine
> > grapes, which are hard to find in downeast Maine this time of year,
so I'll
> > use rehydrated tart cherries---and maybe some schiacciata.

Sounds like A PLAN.

Have a good time, a happy B. D.

         - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:53:34 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:52:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 5:45:25 PM, you wrote:
> I don't know about cats, but some people add a tiny bit of oil (olive
> oil, wesson oil, whatever) to dry dog food if their dogs eat only dry.
> Supposedly it helps the coat.

My cat has a lovely coat, TYVM.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 17:53:51 2003
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bonniev wrote:

> Clyde didn't have to do a thing.  If you are already receiving Social
> Security checks, it's all automatic.  You get Part A and Part B unless you
> speak up.

Maybe it's the getting of ss that I was thinking of.  I do know that at
the various retirement seminars we were told the importance of starting
the benefits -- that you have to do it -- it doesn't just happen.  So I
guess if I start ss at 62, maybe I won't have to do anything to start
Medicare at 65.  If I wait until my full ss age, though, I will have to
remember to inform Medicare of my eligibility the year before.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:52:36 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 5:46 PM -0600 15/2/03, Karen Kay wrote:
>Carolyn! I'm so happy to see you posting!

Hi Karen et al!  I've just ruined my record for lurking...but this
was the longest stint yet and will be hard to beat. ;-)

Carolyn

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:54:29 -0600
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Carolyn Baird wrote:

> Please explain!  Blair and Howard have both cited permission to hold

HA!  It was no doubt my suggestion that lurkers weren't <insiders> that
brought Carolyn Wombat back to us!

But I can't tarry to talk now.  Gotta go turn on the tv to watch our
basketball game.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 17:54:54 -0600
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 5:52:36 PM, you wrote:

> At 5:46 PM -0600 15/2/03, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Carolyn! I'm so happy to see you posting!

> Hi Karen et al!  I've just ruined my record for lurking...but this
> was the longest stint yet and will be hard to beat. ;-)

Oh, dear! How long was it?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Natalie: [re Dubya]

>What I'm hoping is that he will be gotten rid of at the next election.

Dream on.

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:52:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>Note my past tense.  You don't pay for it individually the way you do
>Part B.  But you pay for it in advance as a deduction from your
>paycheck.

Right.

Bethany

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:03:18 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 5:54 PM -0600 15/2/03, Karen Kay wrote:
>Oh, dear! How long was it?

I think my last post was June, 1999...not really sure if I've posted
since then or not...but I'm certain the time can be measured in years
not months this time. :-)

Carolyn

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 18:06:05 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 6:03:18 PM, you wrote:

> At 5:54 PM -0600 15/2/03, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Oh, dear! How long was it?

> I think my last post was June, 1999...not really sure if I've posted
> since then or not...but I'm certain the time can be measured in years
> not months this time. :-)

You were lurking the entire time????? That's the part I find
amazing. I don't find long absences from the list amazing at all.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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At 5:54 PM -0600 15/2/03, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>HA!  It was no doubt my suggestion that lurkers weren't <insiders> that
>brought Carolyn Wombat back to us!

Nope!  I must have skipped over that...my attention has been mainly
drawn to the political discussions over the past few days/weeks.  If
anyone could be singled out as primarily responsible for drawing me
out of lurkdom then that person is Roy even though I haven't yet
responded to any of his posts.

Carolyn

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From: "RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" <rjscheid@nadal.loyno.edu>
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RRC:
>         I dunno, but the St. Louis Post-Discharge had a photo of a
> Connecticut man saran wrapping his entire house on the front
> page.

That wasn't <terror threat>, that was CHRISTO!

--
Richard                  grosses, grosses of beads

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Natalie:
>Strange.  I just looked back at the article to see the
>context, and it has totally changed now -- it being the
>article.  It has been rewritten since I looked at it a
>little while ago.

After all these years, my work is finally noticed.

Love,
   Winston Smith

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From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
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In case anyone's wondering why the BBC doesn't have any pictures of
Sydney's protest march, it's because it hasn't been held yet.  It has
been organised to start at Midday today.  Protest gatherings are
scheduled to take place in just about every major and many minor
towns throughout Australia today.

Carolyn

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> What is schiacciata?

I think that's the Italian word for that pain in
the back of your hip.

--
Oh, my achin' Richard            grosses, grosses of beads

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 19:07:06 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:05:18 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > I don't know about cats, but some people add a tiny bit of oil (olive
> > oil, wesson oil, whatever) to dry dog food if their dogs eat only dry.
> > Supposedly it helps the coat.
>
> My cat has a lovely coat, TYVM.

I didn't mean to suggest that your reason would have to do with your
cat's coat.  I guess I shouldn't have thrown in the why that some people
add oil to their dogs' dry food.  I mentioned the oil thing because we
were talking about the wetting of dry food.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 19:08:19 2003
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> Natalie: [re Dubya]
>
> >What I'm hoping is that he will be gotten rid of at the next election.
>
> Dream on.

Didn't somebody accuse me just a short time ago of tilting at
windmills?  To dreeeaammm the impossible dreaaaammmm.  I'm striving with
my last ounce of courage.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 19:08:54 2003
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Carolyn Baird wrote:
> >Oh, dear! How long was it?
>
> I think my last post was June, 1999...not really sure if I've posted

Good grief.  It can't really have been THAT long, can it have?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 19:10:03 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Carolyn Baird wrote:
> >HA!  It was no doubt my suggestion that lurkers weren't <insiders> that
> >brought Carolyn Wombat back to us!
>
> Nope!  I must have skipped over that...my attention has been mainly
> drawn to the political discussions over the past few days/weeks.  If

Ah, but you didn't necessarily have to have read what I said in reply to
Jim M.  You just <felt> it.

> anyone could be singled out as primarily responsible for drawing me
> out of lurkdom then that person is Roy even though I haven't yet
> responded to any of his posts.

Please do so.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:14:27 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
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At 6:06 PM -0600 15/2/03, Karen Kay wrote:
>You were lurking the entire time????? That's the part I find
>amazing. I don't find long absences from the list amazing at all.

Yes...apart from a few days of nomail while our network was
reconfigured...the sysadmins forced me to do it. :-(

Carolyn

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Karen Kay wrote:
> That's because we are integral to world peace.

Uh huh.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:24:06 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 7:07 PM -0600 15/2/03, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Good grief.  It can't really have been THAT long, can it have?

No, it wasn't....I just did a search of the archives and my last post
was on 6 Jan 2001.  I'd sent a handful of posts between Oct and Dec
2000 evidently after being specifically asked about the Olympics.
Before then it was when I was compelled to reply to birthday wishes
in May 2000 but only posted for that one day.  That's all there's
been since June 1999.

Carolyn

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:25:28 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
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> I didn't mean to suggest that your reason would have to do with your
> cat's coat.  I guess I shouldn't have thrown in the why that some people
> add oil to their dogs' dry food.  I mentioned the oil thing because we
> were talking about the wetting of dry food.

I don't think oil would increase the smell of the food, though.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:26:09 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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02003-02-15 | Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM> writes:
> Not many chickens in my neck of the woods. Geese, lots of geese. They stop
> honking when you cut their heads off, but that's only hearsay on my part.
> I can say definitively that I have never seen a chicken have its head cut
> off. So I cannot say with any certainty that they run about. I do however
> sense a trap in your question, which is why I am running in a different
> direction.

Nobody likes a smartass ...

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:27:07 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> So the march in NYC was without permission?

Permission was sought to march in front of the UN building. A federal
judge ruled that there could be no marching at all and certainly not in
front of the UN. A permit was issued for 100,000 persons (only) to
gather and stand (not march) on First Avenue north of the UN. Of course
there were thousands more than the 100,000 allowed and they were unable
to fit into the prescribed boundaries. The official count, therefore, is
100,000, but in fact there probably were close to 500,000. Feeder
marches tried to get to the First Avenue area, but the police had Second
Avenue blockaded, so no one could cross over to First once it was filled
up. Then people tried to go to either end of the official space on
First. So finally there were people on Third and way north and south of
the main crowd, but they never could get all together. I saw some
helicopter pictures and it looked like the whole east side (except for
Second Avenue) was filled with people way up to the 80s and south to the
30s.

alyce

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: Socialtext
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02003-02-14 | Bookrat <bookrat@BOOKRAT.COM> writes:
> >-- but "architecting" ???
> >
> >BrP
>
> We've been through this before.  "Architecting" is no more an unword than
> "sculpting".
>
> If it was good enough for Keats, it ought to be good enough for us.

No, it ought not. But more generally, what's WITH this pompous-ass
attitude?

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>
> Didn't somebody accuse me just a short time ago of tilting at
> windmills?  To dreeeaammm the impossible dreaaaammmm.  I'm striving
with
> my last ounce of courage.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


Been there.  Done that.
But it took 8 years.

           - D. M.

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:30:35 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Carolyn Baird wrote:
> >
> >The march was huge.  Since we were not allowed to march, the cops were
>
> Please explain!

Hi, Carolyn. See my earlier post to Natalie. The city of NY feared there
would be trouble and would not issue the usual permit for a march and
demonstration. The rally organizers went to federal court for
permission. The judge there opined that to allow marching and especially
near the UN was an invitation to riots or other trouble and therefore
limited the rally to standing (not marching) and in a certain area only.
They did allow speeches, and there were plenty of those. Desmond Tutu
was there and many people of note from politics, show business, labor,
etc.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Note my past tense.  You don't pay for it individually the way you do
> Part B.  But you pay for it in advance as a deduction from your
> paycheck.

Ah. I did not know how it worked. I should have guessed  that it was not
a gift.

alyce
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:32:40 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> I wonder if cat hair makes good mulch.

Yes.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:47:22 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: this week's resolution
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02003-02-15 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> Rita:
>
>  >      Nobody, but NOBODY is gayer than Tushar.
>
> He eats particularly str8 boy food, though.

That's the food I report. I can handily dine with the gayest of
them, and I am pretty sure I could easily outgay e.g. Clyde with
a little practice.

Nobody understands me

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:51:52 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why?
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02003-02-15 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Why would anyone want this? And it proves there is nothing that cannot
> be sold.
>
> >http://predatorpee.com/

It's raining cats and dogs

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why?
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02003-02-15 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > Why would anyone want this? And it proves there is nothing that cannot
> > be sold.
> >
> > >http://predatorpee.com/
>
> Isn't its point to decide where in your yard you'd prefer your dog to
> pee?  With Spencer that's not a problem -- he's very discreet about it
> and always goes far from the house.  Bernard, however, enjoyed peeing on
> the columns holding up my patio roof at the old house.  If I'd had some
> PredatorPee, I could have applied it to areas farther away from the
> patio to lure him there.

It's stupid to use the cutesy word "pee" for deadly wild predators.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 19:59:09 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:57:36 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 7:32:40 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I wonder if cat hair makes good mulch.

> Yes.

Then I am, like, set for life!

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 19:59:47 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:58:14 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 7:34:31 PM, you wrote:

>>
>> Didn't somebody accuse me just a short time ago of tilting at
>> windmills?  To dreeeaammm the impossible dreaaaammmm.  I'm striving
> with
>> my last ounce of courage.
>>
>> --
>>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


> Been there.  Done that.
> But it took 8 years.

And you're happy with the result?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:00:05 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
Message-ID: <20030216020005.GG6569@pobox.com>
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02003-02-15 | "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@FLEX.COM> writes:
> On 15 Feb 2003 at 13:45, Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> > I don't have the birthday list anymore that I once received, . . .
>
> Try this as a substitute:
>
> http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html

If there are any corrections, additions etc, please send
them to me (for now).

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:04:28 2003
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> They did allow speeches, and there were plenty of those. Desmond Tutu
> was there and many people of note from politics, show business, labor,
> etc.
>
> alyce

I somehow can't take Hollywood seriously on
their anti-war status when they haven't cleaned
up their own back yard.  Still making movies
glamorizing killing, guns, murders, deceit,
blowing up cars and properties, etc. . in fact, they make
millions of dollars doing this. The question has been
raised about whether kids who've grown up watching
these movies and TV shows have a realistic understanding
of war and of death.

                              - D. M.
             - D. M.

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> Tushar:
> It's stupid to use the cutesy word "pee" for deadly wild predators.

Yes.  Everyone knows that they
"relieve themselves."

           - D. M.

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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At 08:00 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>02003-02-15 | "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@FLEX.COM> writes:
> > On 15 Feb 2003 at 13:45, Theodora Groothof wrote:
> >
> > > I don't have the birthday list anymore that I once received, . . .
> >
> > Try this as a substitute:
> >
> > http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html
>
>If there are any corrections, additions etc, please send
>them to me (for now).

Rita was born in 1949? She posts young.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:08:26 2003
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Message-ID: <001801c2d560$92b66980$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:10:26 -0600
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>
>
> > Been there.  Done that.
> > But it took 8 years.
>
> And you're happy with the result?
>
> Karen,

Will Natalie be happy with
(any of the 14 or so possibles)?
How much time will she give them?

Put it this way, regardless of what
happens, I wouldn't go back.

               - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:09:23 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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At 08:00 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>02003-02-15 | "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@FLEX.COM> writes:
> > On 15 Feb 2003 at 13:45, Theodora Groothof wrote:
> >
> > > I don't have the birthday list anymore that I once received, . . .
> >
> > Try this as a substitute:
> >
> > http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html
>
>If there are any corrections, additions etc, please send
>them to me (for now).

Ooops. Wrong Rita.

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 08:10 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> >
> > > Been there.  Done that.
> > > But it took 8 years.
> >
> > And you're happy with the result?
> >
> > Karen,
>
>Will Natalie be happy with
>(any of the 14 or so possibles)?
>How much time will she give them?
>
>Put it this way, regardless of what
>happens, I wouldn't go back.

Go back to when there were jobs and not cuts?

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:17:18 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:15:07 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 8:14:05 PM, you wrote:
> At 08:10 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Doris Markland wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > > Been there.  Done that.
>> > > But it took 8 years.
>> >
>> > And you're happy with the result?
>> >
>> > Karen,
>>
>>Will Natalie be happy with
>>(any of the 14 or so possibles)?
>>How much time will she give them?
>>
>>Put it this way, regardless of what
>>happens, I wouldn't go back.

> Go back to when there were jobs and not cuts?

Doris doesn't have to worry about that.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:20:43 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:08:59 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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> http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html

I remain, I see, chopped liver.

Ah, well ... at least I LIKE chopped liver.

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:31:28 2003
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Message-ID: <000a01c2d563$c9f2b400$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:33:28 -0600
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>
> Go back to when there were jobs and not cuts?
>
> Betty


If there had been no election and the
previous administration had continued
on, we have no way of knowing what
would be happening now.  We do
not know but what the seeds for
current conditions were already
planted.



                - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:32:19 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:34:17 -0600
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>
> > Go back to when there were jobs and not cuts?
>
> Doris doesn't have to worry about that.
>
> Karen,

My kids do.

    - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:34:53 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:33:20 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Is this for real?
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 8:34:17 PM, you wrote:
>> > Go back to when there were jobs and not cuts?
>>
>> Doris doesn't have to worry about that.
>>
>> Karen,

> My kids do.

And do you really believe that George Bush is helping them create
better lives?

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:36:28 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:34:44 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: WHEW!
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That game was WAY too close.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:38:27 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:36:39 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I don't think oil would increase the smell of the food, though.

I dunno.  It might add an oily smell, but I have no idea whether cats
find oily smells appealing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:41:54 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:40:21 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 8:36:39 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I don't think oil would increase the smell of the food, though.

> I dunno.  It might add an oily smell, but I have no idea whether cats
> find oily smells appealing.

Not unless it's fish oil.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:42:03 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:40:15 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> The city of NY feared there
> would be trouble and would not issue the usual permit for a march and
> demonstration. The rally organizers went to federal court for
> permission. The judge there opined that to allow marching and especially
> near the UN was an invitation to riots or other trouble and therefore
> limited the rally to standing (not marching) and in a certain area only.

I don't understand this.  Why did they think there might be rioting or
<trouble>?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:44:06 2003
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Doris Markland wrote:

> Been there.  Done that.
> But it took 8 years.

Oh to return to those eight years.  Sound economy, *relatively* peaceful
times, generally upbeat feelings, etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:45:45 2003
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> It's stupid to use the cutesy word "pee" for deadly wild predators.

Actually, I almost never use the word pee.  I don't think I've ever said
it outloud.  I've always said tt.  But would deadly wild predators tt?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:46:18 2003
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I bet I know what it should be.  I bet deadly wild predators "do number
one."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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02003-02-15 | "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU> writes:
> > http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html
>
> I remain, I see, chopped liver.
>
> Ah, well ... at least I LIKE chopped liver.

Ha ha? Send your info and I'll add it ...

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Subject: Re: Why?
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02003-02-15 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> I bet I know what it should be.  I bet deadly wild predators "do number
> one."

Thanks. I was dreading going through all the explanation and
justification for the right term.

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Subject: Re: Question for librarians
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02003-02-13 | lisa alfieri <alfieri@ATTBI.COM> writes:
> At 04:46 PM 2/12/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> >Wednesday, February 12, 2003, 1:34:55 PM, you wrote:
> >> Carlotta's (yes Karen I named my car)
> >
> >Envision me gagging.
>
> Envision me flipping you off with a smirk on my face.

At least think of a name not beginning with "car" ... sheeze!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:54:26 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:52:32 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > Been there.  Done that.
> > But it took 8 years.
>
> And you're happy with the result?

I really, truly, seriously don't see my dream as tilting at windmills in
this case.  I mean look at the situation.  We've got a President who
lost in the popular vote in the first place and has taken the country
rapidly down the tubes in every way ever since.  Surely none of the
majority who chose not to vote for him last time would vote for him next
time, and how could anybody else vote for him?  I find it extremely
depressing to think that he would get any votes at all, except perhaps
from his immediate family.  Oops.  I'm forgetting the mega-rich like my
RRB&SIL, who know zero about anything going on in the world but do enjoy
being favored with tax breaks etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:54:39 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:52:54 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: fOntS
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02003-02-15 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> This site has a handy tool where you can upload a
> scanned image and it will try to match the font:
>
> http://www.myfonts.com/WhatTheFont/
>
> Also, this site is great if you don't have an image scanned. It asks you a
> series of questions about the font, then gives you possible matches.
>
> http://www.identifont.com/

Thank you, K_R_N. Could you send me the damn formal programmable
methods inspired by linguistics and logic or something book's info
again, I think I bloody lost it.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:55:21 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:53:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 8:40:21 PM, you wrote:
> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 8:36:39 PM, you wrote:
>> Karen Kay wrote:
>>> I don't think oil would increase the smell of the food, though.

>> I dunno.  It might add an oily smell, but I have no idea whether cats
>> find oily smells appealing.

> Not unless it's fish oil.

Tuna water is even better than regular water, I discovered.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:58:41 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:57:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 8:52:54 PM, you wrote:
> Thank you, K_R_N. Could you send me the damn formal programmable
> methods inspired by linguistics and logic or something book's info
> again, I think I bloody lost it.

Well, Elephant Boy, I could do it, but in order to do so, I'd
have to check the archives. And I figure you're internet-savvy
enough to do that on your own, and that I should continue to
write about conflict management. Okay?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 20:59:45 2003
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Roy wrote in reply to Natalie:
>>  Just that you are constantly pointing out the wicked ways of the USA.
>
>I don't think that is necessary, it's own citizens seem to be
>demonstrating their opposition this time.

It seem that one of the characteristics of US citizens that is not
apparent in any other country or at least not to the same degree is
their ability to constantly denigrate their own government yet rally
in support of it when ever one of those 'ignurent furreners'
expresses a similar opinion of the US government.  They do not
however comprehend why any 'ignurent furrener' should object to any
US citizen criticising any other government.  This hypocrisy is as
rife on words-l as it is throughout the US or anywhere US citizens
happen to be at any given time.  Yet US citizens don't see it
way...they see defending their government even when they don't agree
with it as 'having national pride' and as 'their moral right' to
speak out against any other government....while the rest of the world
views the first as 'being hypocritical' and the second as 'meddling
in the domestic affairs of another nation'.

The US Ambassador to Australia is a prime example! He's guilty on both counts.

For myself, I freely admit to having no 'national pride' and don't
care who agrees with me that Australia currently has the worst
government in decades.  Yes, I am 'unAustralian' and plead guilty on
all counts as outlined on the poster on my wall:

"The following behaviour is now deemed to be an UNAUSTRALIAN form of
conduct and should be refrained from in all instances:

- To offer one or more persons in a more unfortunate situation than
oneself a "Fair Go" or any other similar charitable act.

- To share food, shelter or any other goods with those who have none.

- To understand the plight of others.

- To protect and/or have concern for the native Australian bushland
and environment.

- To accept responsibility for the exploitation & destruction of
indigenous cultures.

- To protest against any of the above."

Carolyn

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At 8:40 PM -0600 15/2/03, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>alyce cresap wrote:
>>  The city of NY feared there
>>  would be trouble and would not issue the usual permit for a march and
>>  demonstration. The rally organizers went to federal court for
>>  permission. The judge there opined that to allow marching and especially
>>  near the UN was an invitation to riots or other trouble and therefore
>>  limited the rally to standing (not marching) and in a certain area only.
>
>I don't understand this.  Why did they think there might be rioting or
><trouble>?

They're paranoid?  They've forgotten what a peaceful protest looks
like?  They don't trust their citizens to behave in an appropriate
manner?

Carolyn

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From: Sylvia Edwards <s.words@pop.mindspring.com>
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"Bethany K. Dummies" wrote:
>
> > http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html
>
> I remain, I see, chopped liver.
>
> Ah, well ... at least I LIKE chopped liver.
>
> Bethany

Dearie,
That list was created in 1997.  Were you here then?

--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:09:25 2003
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Message-ID: <3E4F0071.5B45CC85@maynor.net>
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:07:29 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> I somehow can't take Hollywood seriously on
> their anti-war status when they haven't cleaned

I can't understand why anybody cares what Hollywood personalities think
about anything.  I mean I can't understand why their views would be more
<interesting> than the views of anybody else.  It's fine for them to
have opinions and to voice them.  But why should we care what people
like Jane Fonda or Ronald Reagin or Charlton Heston think politically?
I don't care.

> raised about whether kids who've grown up watching
> these movies and TV shows have a realistic understanding
> of war and of death.

I think lots of people don't have a real understanding of war and
death.  That's one thing that several veterans who spoke at today's
rally said.  This was a "free speech" rally in that there wasn't a
planned line-up of speakers.  I guess "open-mic" is the right word.
Lots of veterans of various wars spoke, but I think the most poignant
might have been the very last man, who hobbled up to the front leaning
on his cane.  He was a very gray, very withered African American man,
and we waited for ages to hear him because he kept trying to put the
microphone to his ear.  Finally he did get the mircrphone in front of
his mouth and uttered only a couple of sentences.  He said that he was a
World War II veteran, that war was horrible, and that we should not be
starting a war.  He was wearing a veteran's cap of some kind.  He was
for sure the least <good> speaker in the sense of how well he spoke --
as in winning a speech contest.  But I think he might have been the most
moving.  Another pretty moving one was a very firey sixteen-year-old
student from Starkville High School -- a typical fluffhead-looking
teenager with her bare midriff etc -- who went into an impassioned
speech about what she had learned in school about what democracy was and
how that even if she was just sixteen she thought she should be able to
say what she thought and that she was horrified by the discrepancy she
saw between what she had grown up thinking this country stood for and
what was being advocated by the current administration.  There were many
other very good speakers, one of whom read part of a speech Abraham
Lincoln had given in 1848 which was amazingly relevant -- about how the
President should not be allowed to start wars, etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:10:26 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: half a million
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:08:33 -0500
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> The Bread and Puppet Theatre and its 300 puppets are temporarily not
> found.

*squick*

*squick*

::shudder::

Even though they weren't found, I'm glad I wasn't watching.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:12:53 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:11:04 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> > > Been there.  Done that.
> > > But it took 8 years.
> >
> > And you're happy with the result?
> >
> > Karen,
>
> Will Natalie be happy with
> (any of the 14 or so possibles)?
> How much time will she give them?

Maybe it's just that my brain is frazzled after that too-close
basketball game, but I don't understand the point here.  Are you saying
Dubya hasn't had enough time yet?  Well, he still has a while left.
I've not suggested impeachment (quite yet).

> Put it this way, regardless of what
> happens, I wouldn't go back.

I sure would!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:12:54 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: introduction
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:11:01 -0500
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> Again, are you welcoming new members?
>
> Joanne

Yes, we are. Welcome to the list, Joanne!

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:18:31 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:16:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:14:35 PM, you wrote:
> Betty wrote:
>> Go back to when there were jobs and not cuts?

> Just heard tonight--9 million people have been out of work for more than
> 6 months.

I know so many people who have been out of work for two years...

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:25:45 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:24:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I have read all of Nevada Barr's books, I was surprised to find
out how much of wildlife resource management effort is devoted to
conflict management.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:29:35 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:29:20 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Party Preparations
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>         At 8:00, there's a Peanuts special on TV.  Then I'll read
>them Junie B. Jones's Mushy Gushy Valentine, then pop in a
>video (probably Spirit).  I think most of them will be out
>by 10:30 or 11:00.  Their Sunday School teachers are going
>to *love* me tomorrow -- of course, Ana's Sunday School
>teacher is the parent of one of the girls staying over :).

Miles & Kristine have their grad school auditions tomorrow.
Unfortunately, tomorrow is the peace rally in SF (got postponed
because today was the Chinese New Year parade), and the hotel where
the auditions are being held is right smack dab in the middle of it
all. Should be way too interesting.

Janet

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:37:18 -0600
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:34:41 PM, you wrote:
> I didn't run into him I just saw him, all right? You "run into"
> people you know.

Thanks for teaching me Ingrish.

>  I am not one of those a$$holez who walk up to
> musicians and start talking loudly like they know them ...

I know that. That is the one thing I am sure of. That, and that
you don't eat str8.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:42:56 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Clyde
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:41:03 -0500
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> > http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html
>
> If there are any corrections, additions etc, please send
> them to me (for now).

Who ARE some of those people??

AJ Janschewitz? Thomas Stuart? Haz M. Said? Judith Wagner? Melissa Appleby?
Markus? Mahesh? Jason Bladt?

However, once a Wordsler, always a Wordsler, so I guess they should remain
on the list.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 19:55:01 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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At 09:16 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:14:35 PM, you wrote:
> > Betty wrote:
> >> Go back to when there were jobs and not cuts?
>
> > Just heard tonight--9 million people have been out of work for more than
> > 6 months.
>
>I know so many people who have been out of work for two years...

And there are going to be a lot more.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:52:49 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:37:40 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
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At 05:40 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>What is schiacciata?

According to the Tuscan tradition, it is the basic flatbread (flour, yeast,
water, plus one or two seasonings such as garlic, sage, or rosemary, and
olive oil).  Focaccia (at least where we attended the cooking school) is
schiacciata plus a sauteed veggie topping.  I'm reasonably confident that
such things vary substantially as one travels through Italy, much as the
the notion of what constitutes "real" clam chowder varies in this country
as one travels a hundred miles or so.


> > Tomorrow night we dine at Mache Bistro.  Monday morning, if the forecast
> > holds, we will go cross-country skiing.
>
>Good exercise for an old man.:) HB, C!

Umm--the meal, or the skiing?

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 21:57:48 2003
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Roy wrote:
>The government is nervous. Media interviews seem to indicate that those
>in London are just living normal lives. Three decades of possible bombing
>by the IRA means that warnings of more terrorist attacks are nothing new.

In Australia the situation is similar.  Over the past month or so the
government has been trying desperately to get the population worked
up enough to support Howard's stance.  Howard and his government only
got elected last time because he incited 'mass hysteria' amongst the
majority of the population over the 'Tampa crisis' which afterwards
most of what he claimed was proven to be false.  This time around
he's using the 'Bali incident' to endeavour to stir the population up
over the threat of terrorism...even going so far as to have a booklet
produced called "Let's look out for Australia: Protecting our way of
life from a possible terrorist threat" which has been delivered to
every household...but mine was already opened when I got it and the
'fridge magnet' which was supposed to be included in it was missing
(I hope whoever took it does something 'appropriate' with it...there
was a movement that was recommending that it be sent back to the PM
along with a jar of vaseline - an action that I've not heard anyone
express disagreement with).

But it appears that Howard no longer cares about his future in
politics as he's scheduled to retire at the end of this term.  It
looks like he just wants to go out with a 'bang'...he's done nothing
memorable in his political career except lie to the Australian
public...so it's possible that this is his last ditch attempt to be
recorded by history as 'Australia's saviour from terrorism'. Although
his support of Bush would seem to indicate that he may also be
jockeying for the Aussie Ambassador's post in the US or he just
didn't want to be left out when anyone refers to "The Leaders of the
Free World".

Personally I view the whole thing as an "International
Penis-Measuring Contest"...although 'Little Johnnie' doesn't stand a
chance in this game - he just wants to be seen with the 'big boys'
hoping that he will gain something by association.

Carolyn

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:16:10 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Chicago is getting smaller and smaller
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Or at least the north side--I hasten to add. I am sure everybody
recalls my "review" of Ken Vandermark's recent performance saying
it was like so totally great. Damned if I don't see the man himself
sitting right next to me at S****'s! Although I smiled and nodded
to him once, I did not interrupt his conversation, with some ch*k.
T Bone has manners too ...

K-R-N may recall this as the bar we passed on our way to "Kwak".
It has a history you know ...

A history of drunk asses

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:12:17 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> I somehow can't take Hollywood seriously on
> their anti-war status when they haven't cleaned
> up their own back yard.

All actors and actresses do not make movies such as you describe and
should not be tarred with the same brush. Nor should a person in show
business be deprived of his/her right to free speech. Surely nothing is
more violent than war, and if performers oppose war, it must be a Good
Thing.

I might note that there are many staunch Republican actors who make
violent movies, like Bruce Willis, for instance. And then there is Mr.
Heston..., etc.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:19:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:16:10 PM, you wrote:
> K-R-N may recall this as the bar we passed on our way to "Kwak".
> It has a history you know ...

> A history of drunk asses

This is the bar I promised to go in with you next time? I don't
remember the name.

That's cool that you ran into him.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Doris Markland wrote:

>   We do
> not know but what the seeds for
> current conditions were already
> planted.

I am not an economist and will certainly not claim to have <answers>.
But I do find it interesting that Republicans always come up with this
line about having inherited the seeds for the bad economic situation.
If there were a regular alternation between the parties -- as in a
spelled-out rotation system with equal <reigns>, then that line might be
easier to swallow.  Iow, one could say that the current economic
situation was the fault of the previous administration, thus always
blaming it on the other party.  But that's not how our system works.
And history, at least of the past hundred or so years, shows pretty
clearly that the economy goes to hell during Republican administrations.

Not to mention the federal deficit.  Those figures are quite mind
boggling.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:27:33 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Carolyn Baird wrote:
>  They don't trust their citizens to behave in an appropriate
> manner?

Right. Everyone knows that all war protesters are lefties and rowdy.
Ergo, keep them under control. I think it is a sin that they didn't
allow a march and limited the number of official participants. Also, I
am disgusted with the media that there was not more news coverage of the
suit.

alyce

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-15 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:16:10 PM, you wrote:
> > K-R-N may recall this as the bar we passed on our way to "Kwak".
> > It has a history you know ...
>
> > A history of drunk asses
>
> This is the bar I promised to go in with you next time? I don't
> remember the name.
>
> That's cool that you ran into him.

I didn't run into him I just saw him, all right? You "run into"
people you know. I am not one of those a$$holez who walk up to
musicians and start talking loudly like they know them ...

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:38:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:29:20 PM, you wrote:
> Miles & Kristine have their grad school auditions tomorrow.

For where?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Karen Kay wrote:

> > I dunno.  It might add an oily smell, but I have no idea whether cats
> > find oily smells appealing.
>
> Not unless it's fish oil.

Do you have any codliver oil?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tushar Samant wrote:
> > I bet I know what it should be.  I bet deadly wild predators "do number
> > one."
>
> Thanks. I was dreading going through all the explanation and
> justification for the right term.

I'm glad we've agreed upon "doing #1" as the right term.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Tuna water is even better than regular water, I discovered.

And this reminds me.  I've bought canned tunafish in "spring water" or
whatever kind of water for years, but I read something a while back
about how buying it in the old-fashioned cans is better -- in whatever
kind of oil it came in -- that that oil is good for you.  So the next
time I went to the grocery store, I looked for tunafish in non-water.
But there was none to be seen.  It was all in water.  Is it possible to
find it in non-water anymore?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:42:10 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > I dunno.  It might add an oily smell, but I have no idea whether cats
>> > find oily smells appealing.
>>
>> Not unless it's fish oil.

> Do you have any codliver oil?

No.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:49:59 -0500
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> But there was none to be seen.  It was all in water.  Is it possible to
> find it in non-water anymore?

It's there. I bought some in soybean oil not too long ago.

It's probably on the lower shelves.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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At 05:53 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, d.m wrote:

>Sounds like A PLAN.

Well, like the best laid plans...

The sweet bread (with the cherries and walnuts) turned out very
nicely.  The other, in which I tried a new recipe, was a failure---it was
dense, hard, and tasted like oyster crackers---which would have been great
had that been the objective.  So, chalk up one "keeper" and back to the
drawing board on the other.  Anyhow, it was an enjoyable evening.  Coming
out of the inn, into the clear (very) crisp below-zero weather, with the
moon shining, it brought immediately to mind the line from <Visit from St.
Nicholas>:   "The moon, on the breast of the new fallen snow, gave a lustre
of midday to objects below..."

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   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Party Preparations
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At 07:29 PM 2/15/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>         At 8:00, there's a Peanuts special on TV.  Then I'll read
>>them Junie B. Jones's Mushy Gushy Valentine, then pop in a
>>video (probably Spirit).  I think most of them will be out
>>by 10:30 or 11:00.  Their Sunday School teachers are going
>>to *love* me tomorrow -- of course, Ana's Sunday School
>>teacher is the parent of one of the girls staying over :).
>
>Miles & Kristine have their grad school auditions tomorrow.
>Unfortunately, tomorrow is the peace rally in SF (got postponed
>because today was the Chinese New Year parade), and the hotel where
>the auditions are being held is right smack dab in the middle of it
>all. Should be way too interesting.

I wish them well!  Will you attend?

Betty

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Natalie Maynor wrote:

  Is it possible to
> find it in non-water anymore?

Should be both ways--oil and water.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:54:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:55:01 PM, you wrote:
> And there are going to be a lot more.

ARgh.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Betty wrote:
>
> And there are going to be a lot more.

Compassionate conservatism.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> I don't understand this.  Why did they think there might be rioting or
> <trouble>?

Because of the WTO meeting that was held there awhile ago when there
were disturbances, and because NYC is very paranoid about trouble since
911. It has been on orange alert this whole time, not just since last
week. The city is very sensitive.

alyce

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Betty wrote:
> Go back to when there were jobs and not cuts?

Just heard tonight--9 million people have been out of work for more than
6 months.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 22:05:08 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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You can erase and eliminate Barbara Brannan in September.   She was never
really a wordsler.  She was a friend of mine who isn't even a friend of
mine anymore.  Axe her.


> > > http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html
> >
> > If there are any corrections, additions etc, please send
> > them to me (for now).
>
>Who ARE some of those people??
>
>AJ Janschewitz? Thomas Stuart? Haz M. Said? Judith Wagner? Melissa Appleby?
>Markus? Mahesh? Jason Bladt?
>
>However, once a Wordsler, always a Wordsler, so I guess they should remain
>on the list.
>
>--Adam
>adamh1@attbi.com

    --bonniev

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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] introduction
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:04:54 -0600
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> I'm being very polite in not asking the obvious question yet:  Why no
> dogs??
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Actually I have one dog. I seldom list Max in the "pets" list because he is
my assistance dog. I was severely injured in an auto accident leaving me
considerably impaired. Max is a very large golden labrador who does
everything for me. The ferrets consider him to be their personal playground
when he is not working. The cats ignore him. He watches the squirrels with
deep suspicion and the birds with only a passing interest.  Because my
disabilities are so profound, Max is seldom not on duty. And he would not
tolerate another dog around who was "just a pet". We tried that once. It
will be interesting in about 5 years when we will have to retire him. He is
beginning to show the very early signs of age.

Jo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 22:07:06 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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 >into the clear (very) crisp below-zero weather, with the
>moon shining, it brought immediately to mind the line from <Visit from St.
>Nicholas>:   "The moon, on the breast of the new fallen snow, gave a lustre
>of midday to objects below..."     --cwv

And he didn't even keep that to himself.  He sang it out to me as we got in
the car.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:06:13 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Carolyn Baird wrote:

> It seem that one of the characteristics of US citizens that is not
> apparent in any other country or at least not to the same degree is
> their ability to constantly denigrate their own government yet rally
> in support of it when ever one of those 'ignurent furreners'
> expresses a similar opinion of the US government.

By government do you mean the current administration ("current" in
whatever time period -- I don't mean necessarily right now)?  I have
never noticed what you're talking about.  I can't imagine rallying in
support of today's administration.  And I remember the summer I spent
six weeks in Vichy right after President Ray-Gun had been tossing bombs
that I pointed out to many people that I was totally against him and
what he was doing.

Or do you mean the country, not the current administration?  If so, I do
understand that.  I've noticed it more within states than within the
country as a whole, but I do understand the attitude.  E.g., it's ok for
Mississippians to discuss with each other things we thing are bad in the
state, but we get mightily riled if an outsider badmouths the state.
Same with a town.  It's ok for us locals to talk about Starkpatch and
what it lacks, but don't let some snotty outsider come in and make
disparaging comments.  I don't think I've ever thought about this kind
of thing before re the whole country, but I certainly have re smaller
segments, like town or state.  I think that's human nature.

>  They do not
> however comprehend why any 'ignurent furrener' should object to any
> US citizen criticising any other government.

I don't see this.  But again the problem may be that I'm not sure what
you mean by "government."  I see nothing at all wrong with anybody
anywhere stating negative opinions about national leaders of their own
or anybody else's country.  Maybe that is something different about the
US.  But I'm for it, whether it is or isn't.  I think it's just fine for
people in other countries to say negative things about our current
idiotic president.  And I think it's just fine for me to say that Tony
Blair, whom I have found a lust object for a good while, is tarnished in
my view recently.

>  This hypocrisy is as
> rife on words-l as it is throughout the US or anywhere US citizens
> happen to be at any given time.

Cites, please.  I think I would understand better what you're seeing as
hypocrisy if you gave some specific examples.

> Yet US citizens don't see it
> way...they see defending their government even when they don't agree
> with it as 'having national pride' and as 'their moral right' to
> speak out against any other government....while the rest of the world
> views the first as 'being hypocritical' and the second as 'meddling
> in the domestic affairs of another nation'.

Huh?  Maybe some US citizens are as you're describing them, but for sure
not all are.  I can't imagine defending Dubya's antics right now, for
example.  I don't know exactly what "national pride" is, but I for sure
consider it my patriotic duty as somebody who loves my country to say
that we have a maniac in the White House right now.  And I don't get the
part about "moral right" re speaking against other governments.  I don't
see anything at all wrong with speaking out about other leaders I think
are bad.  Sharon is one I think I mentioned just a couple of days ago.
But is saying I think he's bad "meddling in the domestic affairs of
another nation"?  I don't see it that way.  I see it as stating an
opinion.

> The US Ambassador to Australia is a prime example! He's guilty on both counts.

I assume that you know that US ambassadors are in general people who
have contributed big money to the current administration and don't
always know anything or have any sense.  I think that's a sad situation,
but it's true.  (And I should add that that does not mean that *all*
ambassadors are ignorant.  Many aren't.  But many are.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 22:11:25 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:09:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Party Preparations
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> Unfortunately, tomorrow is the peace rally in SF (got postponed

I met a woman at the beginning of our march today who lives in SF but
said she had to miss the rally there because of being here for her
father's 80th birthday party and that she was glad there was a rally
here.  She said she had a son in the military and was very much against
this possible war.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: introduction
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At 10:04 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Joanne Jemison wrote:
> > I'm being very polite in not asking the obvious question yet:  Why no
> > dogs??
> > --
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>Actually I have one dog. I seldom list Max in the "pets" list because he is
>my assistance dog. I was severely injured in an auto accident leaving me
>considerably impaired. Max is a very large golden labrador who does
>everything for me. The ferrets consider him to be their personal playground
>when he is not working. The cats ignore him. He watches the squirrels with
>deep suspicion and the birds with only a passing interest.  Because my
>disabilities are so profound, Max is seldom not on duty. And he would not
>tolerate another dog around who was "just a pet". We tried that once. It
>will be interesting in about 5 years when we will have to retire him. He is
>beginning to show the very early signs of age.

How old is he?

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 22:13:45 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:12:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Thanks for the clue, Clyde
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:49:59 PM, you wrote:
>> But there was none to be seen.  It was all in water.  Is it possible to
>> find it in non-water anymore?

> It's there. I bought some in soybean oil not too long ago.

> It's probably on the lower shelves.

I see both of them all the time.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:13:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:37:40 PM, you wrote:
> At 05:40 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>What is schiacciata?

> According to the Tuscan tradition, it is the basic flatbread (flour, yeast,
> water, plus one or two seasonings such as garlic, sage, or rosemary, and
> olive oil).  Focaccia (at least where we attended the cooking school) is
> schiacciata plus a sauteed veggie topping.  I'm reasonably confident that
> such things vary substantially as one travels through Italy, much as the
> the notion of what constitutes "real" clam chowder varies in this country
> as one travels a hundred miles or so.

Yes.

>> > Tomorrow night we dine at Mache Bistro.  Monday morning, if the forecast
>> > holds, we will go cross-country skiing.
>>
>>Good exercise for an old man.:) HB, C!

> Umm--the meal, or the skiing?

I was thinking of the skiing, but probably both.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:17:30 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: fOntS
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02003-02-15 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 8:52:54 PM, you wrote:
> > Thank you, K_R_N. Could you send me the damn formal programmable
> > methods inspired by linguistics and logic or something book's info
> > again, I think I bloody lost it.
>
> Well, Elephant Boy, I could do it, but in order to do so, I'd
> have to check the archives. And I figure you're internet-savvy
> enough to do that on your own, and that I should continue to
> write about conflict management. Okay?

Thanks again, I found it. Wish they had more findable titles than
"Algebras, Diagrams and Decisions in Language, Logic and Computation"
... talk about brimming over with generic terms ...

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In a message dated 02/15/2003 6:04:02 PM Central Standard Time,
cas@BORONIA.APANA.ORG.AU writes:

<<
I think my last post was June, 1999
>>

That's about the time Brandy died; I hadn't realized it's been that
long since you've posted here.

Welcome back!

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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> Nobody likes a smartass ...

Good Lord, first a test about chickens and now donkeys? Just what kind of
group is this anyway.

Jo

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:29:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:54:57 PM, you wrote:
> Betty wrote:
>>
>> And there are going to be a lot more.

> Compassionate conservatism.

Ha. I still haven't forgiven Bush for his deliberate slighting of
the long-term unemployed. No one except the Democrats seems to
hae noticed this.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:31:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:17:30 PM, you wrote:
> Thanks again, I found it. Wish they had more findable titles than
> "Algebras, Diagrams and Decisions in Language, Logic and Computation"
> ... talk about brimming over with generic terms ...

That's the beauty part, I think...

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:26:44 PM, you wrote:
>> Nobody likes a smartass ...

> Good Lord, first a test about chickens and now donkeys? Just what kind of
> group is this anyway.

LOL. Your natural home, I think.:)

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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At 10:29 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:54:57 PM, you wrote:
> > Betty wrote:
> >>
> >> And there are going to be a lot more.
>
> > Compassionate conservatism.
>
>Ha. I still haven't forgiven Bush for his deliberate slighting of
>the long-term unemployed. No one except the Democrats seems to
>hae noticed this.

A cow-orker's son bought two hummers.  He is happy. I guess it was either
another hummer or pay taxes. I couldn't actually figure it all out.

Betty

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:36:01 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: Chicago is getting smaller and smaller
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02003-02-15 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:34:41 PM, you wrote:
> > I didn't run into him I just saw him, all right? You "run into"
> > people you know.
>
> Thanks for teaching me Ingrish.

Somebody had to do it.

> > I am not one of those a$$holez who walk up to musicians and
> > start talking loudly like they know them ...
>
> I know that. That is the one thing I am sure of. That, and that
> you don't eat str8.

Str8s regularly eat "chocolate mousse cake", esp when it's barely
touched by the other person at the table. Come up with some other
cite, please ... !

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:37:19 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why?
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02003-02-15 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
> > > I bet I know what it should be.  I bet deadly wild predators "do number
> > > one."
> >
> > Thanks. I was dreading going through all the explanation and
> > justification for the right term.
>
> I'm glad we've agreed upon "doing #1" as the right term.

Not with the damn SYMBOLS AND NUMERALS!

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:40:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:36:01 PM, you wrote:
> Str8s regularly eat "chocolate mousse cake", esp when it's barely
> touched by the other person at the table. Come up with some other
> cite, please ... !

I am such a slut! I did the same thing with Nameless two weeks
ago. I was trying to remember why it felt so familiar and was
unsuccessful. It was you!! That was very good.

Karen,
Just a slut for chocolate mousse cake

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 22:42:13 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:40:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:38:31 PM, you wrote:

> At 10:29 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:54:57 PM, you wrote:
>> > Betty wrote:
>> >>
>> >> And there are going to be a lot more.
>>
>> > Compassionate conservatism.
>>
>>Ha. I still haven't forgiven Bush for his deliberate slighting of
>>the long-term unemployed. No one except the Democrats seems to
>>hae noticed this.

> A cow-orker's son bought two hummers.  He is happy. I guess it was either
> another hummer or pay taxes. I couldn't actually figure it all out.

Nor I. Is he unemployed?

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:43:42 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-15 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:36:01 PM, you wrote:
> > Str8s regularly eat "chocolate mousse cake", esp when it's barely
> > touched by the other person at the table. Come up with some other
> > cite, please ... !
>
> I am such a slut! I did the same thing with Nameless two weeks
> ago. I was trying to remember why it felt so familiar and was
> unsuccessful. It was you!! That was very good.

I feel icky.

> Karen,
> Just a slut for chocolate mousse cake

And "cosmopolitans" ... umm, festive!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 22:46:34 2003
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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:44:49 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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02003-02-15 | Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM> writes:
> > Nobody likes a smartass ...
>
> Good Lord, first a test about chickens and now donkeys? Just what
> kind of group is this anyway.

They are animals over here. Forget them. Are you cute?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 15 22:48:07 2003
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At 10:40 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:38:31 PM, you wrote:
>
> > At 10:29 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> >>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:54:57 PM, you wrote:
> >> > Betty wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> And there are going to be a lot more.
> >>
> >> > Compassionate conservatism.
> >>
> >>Ha. I still haven't forgiven Bush for his deliberate slighting of
> >>the long-term unemployed. No one except the Democrats seems to
> >>hae noticed this.
>
> > A cow-orker's son bought two hummers.  He is happy. I guess it was either
> > another hummer or pay taxes. I couldn't actually figure it all out.
>
>Nor I. Is he unemployed?

No, I think he owns his own business.  Some kind of write off allowed.

Betty

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In a message dated 2/15/2003 1:35:43 PM, bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU writes:

<< Again, are you welcoming new members? >>

Welcome, Joanne from me too. I have you beat by almost 10 years, but aside
from that you sound as if we have a lot in common. I used to love woodworking
too, but because I became disabled from a car accident, I only have the use
of one arm, therefor few choices are available for me, but I still do small
craft products, and of course there's this godsent, called computer thank the
goddess! Before my accident I was working with a British computer company, so
it was not something I had to learn from the start, so that helped. As you
may have read I was born in Holland, but I've lived in this country longer
than in my former homeland. I just moved to Idaho, but I lived in Colorado
for many years. I still miss the Colorado blue skies, and looking at Pikes
Peak from my window, but I can see some mountain range here too,  whatever
they may be called. Again, welcome. Hope you enjoy meeting all of us as much
as I have.
Theo

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:47:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:43:42 PM, you wrote:
> I feel icky.

I'm sorry. You were very good, though.

>> Karen,
>> Just a slut for chocolate mousse cake

> And "cosmopolitans" ... umm, festive!

I'm trying to forget about the cosmopolitan. I'm sure I
embarrassed myself.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:49:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:50:23 PM, you wrote:
> No, I think he owns his own business.  Some kind of write off allowed.

Ah. Must be a Republican.:)

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:52:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:49:14 PM, you wrote:
> Haz M. Said is Sandra's friend, inventor of a game named _Werdz_ or
> something.  He was the one who wanted to know if this <service> is a
> thinly-veiled swinging group.

I remember him (now that you jogged me), and Judith Wagner.

> Jason Bladt, if I'm not mistaken, also went by the nickname Jekke.  He left
> behind his then-current e-life (including words-l) on the day that his
> employers, as he put it, decided that programmers were a fungible asset.

Boy, I have no memory of this.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Subject: Dogs and SSDI and war
Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 22:51:27 -0600
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> How old is he?
>
> Betty
>
Five. I have had him since he was 14 months. He works hard.

Just as a side note, our compassionately conservative government decided
that when Max's training organization gave all of those of us who have one
of their dogs a stipend for medical care once the dog reaches age five, the
money should be deducted from our SSDI benefits. (Ow! That was a clumsy
sentence!) We get around it by having our veterinarian send the bills
directly to the foundation.

And then there is the quiet little bill this administration has been trying
to sneak through -- appending it, sticking it in with another more popular
bill -- to no avail so far but they keep trying. It is an ammendment to the
ADA, which would no longer require businesses to have access aisles or
handicapped toilets. Nevermind that the bill would be struck down by the
courts almost immediately, let alone that any number of state laws would
supercede, Dubya and friends see the disabled as another voiceless bunch
they can steal from with impunity. They've taken on the wrong bunch on this
one.

Is anyone else here as flat out terrified by the Homeland Security Office as
I am? I keep wondering when I am going to be asked to spy on my neighbors,
rat out the Muslim lady from the quilt shop who brings me my fabric (or be
subject to scrutiny because she comes to my home regularly wearing the
scarf), etc. While some may see it as part of our general national defense,
I see it as a very very dangerous toe in the door with the potential to do
far more harm to our civil rights than McCarthy ever dreamed of.

I often dream, when I am in one of my Quixote phases, just what we could
with all that bomb and blow up money if we were to spend it on
life-enhancing things rather than life-ending things. But then, I am moved
still by MLK's speech and still believe that there is hope.

Frantically tilting at windmills and still believing,

Jo

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:49:14 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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>Who ARE some of those people??
>
>AJ Janschewitz? Thomas Stuart? Haz M. Said? Judith Wagner? Melissa Appleby?
>Markus? Mahesh? Jason Bladt?

>--Adam

Haz M. Said is Sandra's friend, inventor of a game named _Werdz_ or
something.  He was the one who wanted to know if this <service> is a
thinly-veiled swinging group.

Jason Bladt, if I'm not mistaken, also went by the nickname Jekke.  He left
behind his then-current e-life (including words-l) on the day that his
employers, as he put it, decided that programmers were a fungible asset.

Ken Miller
Bernard Chien Perro Memorial Institute for Words-L Studies

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At 10:49 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:50:23 PM, you wrote:
> > No, I think he owns his own business.  Some kind of write off allowed.
>
>Ah. Must be a Republican.:)

I'm sure that is just a co-incidence.

Betty

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In a message dated 2/15/2003 1:46:43 PM, lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<< is it true that they continue to run after
having their heads cut off? Have you ever seen this?
 >>

Yes, it's true, at least the Dutch chickens do, or at least the roosters did
when I saw them slaughtered at a farm I spend a few summer vacations on when
I was a child. They never killed the chickens, because they were needed for
the eggs, and you only need ONE male to serve them all! (big grin)
Theo

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In a message dated 2/15/2003 1:55:49 PM, lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<< Careful, Theo. You WENT OFF on someone for attributing something to you
that
you didn't say, yet you leave my name here when I did not say the above. Not
that I have a problem with Roy's statement.
 >>

I'm very sorry, Marie, but I honestly thought it was your name I saw. No harm
meant, I assure you.
Theo

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 20:59:29 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Party Preparations
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>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:29:20 PM, you wrote:
>>  Miles & Kristine have their grad school auditions tomorrow.
>
>For where?

Several schools. The way it works, apparently, is that a lot of
different drama grad schools send their people to the same audition
-- that way, the students only have to audition once, in one place. I
can't believe how calm they are -- I'd be terrified.

Janet

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In a message dated 2/15/2003 3:38:47 PM, cwv@PANAX.COM writes:

<< "Well, that's all the gnus that's fit to sprint."

cwv
 >>

Have mercy, Clyde :-)

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Date: Sat, 15 Feb 2003 21:01:47 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Party Preparations
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>At 07:29 PM 2/15/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>>          At 8:00, there's a Peanuts special on TV.  Then I'll read
>>>them Junie B. Jones's Mushy Gushy Valentine, then pop in a
>>>video (probably Spirit).  I think most of them will be out
>>>by 10:30 or 11:00.  Their Sunday School teachers are going
>>>to *love* me tomorrow -- of course, Ana's Sunday School
>>>teacher is the parent of one of the girls staying over :).
>>
>>Miles & Kristine have their grad school auditions tomorrow.
>>Unfortunately, tomorrow is the peace rally in SF (got postponed
>>because today was the Chinese New Year parade), and the hotel where
>>the auditions are being held is right smack dab in the middle of it
>  >all. Should be way too interesting.
>
>I wish them well!  Will you attend?

No; parents and other <hangers-on> may not attend. Ben & I are
meeting them afterward for lunch. God knows how I'll park.

Janet

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In a message dated 2/15/2003 4:16:17 PM, dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM writes:

<< It was a good trip but it's great to be back.

> >>

Welcome back. I noticed that the Dutch at Schiphol, from your experience
there, did not panic ! ;-) Theo

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In a message dated 2/15/2003 4:49:37 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< Right.  Bomb 'em in the name of peace. >>

Now that would be very funny, if it weren't so sad.
Theo

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In a message dated 2/15/2003 6:57:34 PM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< > Karen Kay wrote:
>> I wonder if cat hair makes good mulch.

> Yes.

Then I am, like, set for life!

Karen,
Just a tool of love
 >>

That's kinda weird, because my cat doesn't seem to shed a lot, whereas when I
had dogs, EVERYTHING was covered with hair!
Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 00:16:11 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 00:14:22 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chicago is getting smaller and smaller
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02003-02-15 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:43:42 PM, you wrote:
> > I feel icky.
>
> I'm sorry. You were very good, though.
>
> >> Karen,
> >> Just a slut for chocolate mousse cake
>
> > And "cosmopolitans" ... umm, festive!
>
> I'm trying to forget about the cosmopolitan. I'm sure I
> embarrassed myself.

Well ... you put me in an awkward position. The truth is that
the embarrassment started a lot earlier than the cosmopolitan,
but how can I convey this in a diplomatic way?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 00:24:01 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 00:22:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 12:06:57 AM, you wrote:
> That's kinda weird, because my cat doesn't seem to shed a lot, whereas when I
> had dogs, EVERYTHING was covered with hair!

It depends on the kind of cat. This cat is mostly Persian, and
produces copius amounts of hair. I defy you to find a Persian cat
that doesn't shed like crazy.

Here's a picture of a blue persian. Mine is black and gold; her
ruff is mostly gold. http://www.bluepersian.ndirect.co.uk/bluepersian.html

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 00:25:04 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 00:23:28 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 12:14:22 AM, you wrote:

> 02003-02-15 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:43:42 PM, you wrote:
>> > I feel icky.
>>
>> I'm sorry. You were very good, though.
>>
>> >> Karen,
>> >> Just a slut for chocolate mousse cake
>>
>> > And "cosmopolitans" ... umm, festive!
>>
>> I'm trying to forget about the cosmopolitan. I'm sure I
>> embarrassed myself.

> Well ... you put me in an awkward position. The truth is that
> the embarrassment started a lot earlier than the cosmopolitan,
> but how can I convey this in a diplomatic way?

Dear god, I hope you're kidding.

I had a very good time that day and remember you fondly.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 00:52:55 2003
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Message-ID: <002401c2d588$5051c580$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <f05111b02ba747e494cda@[203.14.156.25]>           
            <3E4EE9BB.1699671D@valstar.net>           
            <000a01c2d560$03060ca0$460332d1@0018079268> 
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 00:54:55 -0600
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----- Original Message -----
From: "alyce cresap" <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 9:12 PM
Subject: Re: report from NYC


> Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> > I somehow can't take Hollywood seriously on
> > their anti-war status when they haven't cleaned
> > up their own back yard.
>
> All actors and actresses do not make movies such as you describe and
> should not be tarred with the same brush. Nor should a person in show
> business be deprived of his/her right to free speech. Surely nothing
is
> more violent than war, and if performers oppose war, it must be a Good
> Thing.
>
> I might note that there are many staunch Republican actors who make
> violent movies, like Bruce Willis, for instance. And then there is Mr.
> Heston..., etc.
>
> alyce

I said nothing about Democrats or Republicans,
just "Hollywood."

I have been upset for years about the amount
of stupid violence portrayed, which served no
purpose, was not entertaining IMO, and
certainly not representative of anything I see
going on (except it's representative of the
advanced technology they love to play with.)
Now they've got the movie characters all
smoking again too, so a bunch of kids
out there are going to be suckered in again.

Their movies have an enormous influence
on kids, and I don't see them using that for
as much good as they might, and while
they are free to do anything they want to
do, I don't want to hear their lectures
whether they are R or D, and particularly
on politics.

              - D. M.

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Rita Chapman writes,

>        Take note, Pete.

You cheated and asked about "architecture" instead of "architect."

But let's see:

"Pete looks at the Internet with great joy, and particularly appreciates
the cornice treatments."

Hmm, might work.

Big cool news for the blog world, BTW: Google bought Blogger.

<http://weblog.siliconvalley.com/column/dangillmor/archives/000802.shtml>

Here's a picture of Ethan and me (with my camera) sitting next to Ev last
weekend in Marin: <http://tinyurl.com/5wog>.  Not that Ev let on at the
time. :)

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 01:47:08 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:45:08 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 12:54 AM -0600 16/2/03, Doris Markland wrote:
>I said nothing about Democrats or Republicans,
>just "Hollywood."
>
>I have been upset for years about the amount
>of stupid violence portrayed, which served no
>purpose, was not entertaining IMO, and
>certainly not representative of anything I see
>going on (except it's representative of the
>advanced technology they love to play with.)

Have you seen "Megiddo"?

Carolyn

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In a message dated 02/15/2003 11:53:50 PM Central Standard Time,
Groothof2@AOL.COM writes:

<<
In a message dated 2/15/2003 4:49:37 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< Right.  Bomb 'em in the name of peace. >>

Now that would be very funny, if it weren't so sad.
Theo
>>

I wonder what Stanley Kubrick would think of this war.


Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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Subject: Re: introduction
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             kaminski@ISTORI.COM on Sat, Feb 15, 2003 at 10:52:28PM -0800
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Peter Kaminski:
=
= Big cool news for the blog world, BTW: Google bought Blogger.
=
= <http://weblog.siliconvalley.com/column/dangillmor/archives/000802.shtml>
=

I must be getting better connected.  I got this in other mail before
you mentioned it.  Maybe only a couple of mails before this, but
still.  Not that it does me any good, but I do like being
connected.


= Here's a picture of Ethan and me (with my camera) sitting next to Ev last
= weekend in Marin: <http://tinyurl.com/5wog>.  Not that Ev let on at the
= time. :)

Ok, the shoes work.

From owner-words-l*words-l**GTOAL*-COM@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 06:55:47 2003
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On Sat, 15 Feb 2003, Sylvia Edwards wrote:

>That list was created in 1997.  Were you here then?

No - but I am on the list now, thanks to tushar's power.

ncl

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: introduction
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 07:11:34 -0600
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>
> Big cool news for the blog world, BTW: Google bought Blogger.
>
>
<http://weblog.siliconvalley.com/column/dangillmor/archives/000802.shtml
>
>
> Here's a picture of Ethan and me (with my camera) sitting next to Ev
last
> weekend in Marin: <http://tinyurl.com/5wog>.  Not that Ev let on at
the
> time. :)
>
> Pete
>
Wow.  Sounds like big news.

And Ethan has certainly grown and matured.
Nice looking young man.

                   - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 07:10:43 2003
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According to Geddy's cam  http://www.geddys.com/harborcam01.html  a section
of the ocean froze last night.   It was blue water in yesterday's
pictures.  This morning it is snowy ice.  It's nine below zero (-23C) at 8
a.m.   Another winter storm coming our way tomorrow night.

    --bonniev

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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
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>
> Have you seen "Megiddo"?
>
> Carolyn

No.  In fact, if I was aware of it I had
forgotten.  Should I see it?

                 - D. M.

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: stateside
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:38:01 +0000
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alyce cresap wrote:

>And we are happy to have you back! I always feel better when everyone is
>where s/he's supposed to be.

Thanks, Alyce.  You must be thrilled to be home, too.

The storm's here. It's coming down fast and furious. Poor visibility.
3" or so in a couple of hours. Weather event's ahead of schedule -
I thought it was going to start mid-day. Looks like a biggie. Glad
I didn't fly in today.

-rashmi

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 07:49:08 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:47:06 +0000
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Hey Doris, couldja name these things, factors etc. Can't make
head or tail of what you're talking about. What are you
referring to?

Thanks,
-rashmi
===================================

I'm having trouble seeing anything good in
anything that is happening anywhere right
now.  But I can't step back far enough to
see the big picture.

I think the biggest problem is an anger and
frustration that has been building not just for
years but for centuries . . . in individuals, in
cultures, in countries . . . and at this point in
time has amassed enough power for an
inner and eventually an outer explosion.
There are so many factors throughout history
that have caused this, you cannot single out
one group or one country and say they caused it,
but it's true that one thing happening right now
could trigger a domino effect, and it's frightening.

Pent up anger occurs when individuals cannot
express themselves freely.  And since they are
here to express themselves and be who they
came to be, if someone puts them in a box and
then someone puts their group or their country
in a box their confinement is going to crush them.
If they are given rules they don't understand but
not taught how to grow enough to set their own
rules, they are going to eventually rebel.  etc. etc.

I'm not just talking about underdeveloped countries
and those with political and economic problems.
I'm talking about all individuals and groups in the
world, and there is an obvious unrest among the
natives of this planet.

If I wanted to place some blame I would not look
to the politicians.  They are relatively temporary.
I would look to a factor much deeper in society
and much older and much more invasive.



                    - D. M.


_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 07:56:45 2003
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Message-ID: <006601c2d5c3$836ea240$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <BAY2-F174YizeeVdh3O0002d270@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 07:58:41 -0600
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No, I think not.
Late night musing I regretted.
Definitely the wrong forum.
Blogging off.

        - D. M.




> Hey Doris, couldja name these things, factors etc. Can't make
> head or tail of what you're talking about. What are you
> referring to?
>
> Thanks,
> -rashmi
> ===================================
>
> I'm having trouble seeing anything good in
> anything that is happening anywhere right
> now.  But I can't step back far enough to
> see the big picture.
>
> I think the biggest problem is an anger and
> frustration that has been building not just for
> years but for centuries . . . in individuals, in
> cultures, in countries . . . and at this point in
>
etc. etc.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 07:58:26 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Chicago is getting smaller and smaller
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At 12:23 AM 2/16/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Sunday, February 16, 2003, 12:14:22 AM, you wrote:
>
> > 02003-02-15 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> Saturday, February 15, 2003, 10:43:42 PM, you wrote:
> >> > I feel icky.
> >>
> >> I'm sorry. You were very good, though.
> >>
> >> >> Karen,
> >> >> Just a slut for chocolate mousse cake
> >>
> >> > And "cosmopolitans" ... umm, festive!
> >>
> >> I'm trying to forget about the cosmopolitan. I'm sure I
> >> embarrassed myself.
>
> > Well ... you put me in an awkward position. The truth is that
> > the embarrassment started a lot earlier than the cosmopolitan,
> > but how can I convey this in a diplomatic way?
>
>Dear god, I hope you're kidding.
>
>I had a very good time that day and remember you fondly.
>
>Karen,
>Just a tool of love

TMI

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:00:03 2003
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At 12:54 AM 2/16/2003 -0600, Doris Markland wrote:
>Now they've got the movie characters all
>smoking again too, so a bunch of kids
>out there are going to be suckered in again.

I hate that!  Do the cigarette companies pay the people to smoke their brand ?

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:03:34 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: bay is freezing
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At 08:08 AM 2/16/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
>According to Geddy's cam  http://www.geddys.com/harborcam01.html  a section
>of the ocean froze last night.   It was blue water in yesterday's
>pictures.  This morning it is snowy ice.  It's nine below zero (-23C) at 8
>a.m.   Another winter storm coming our way tomorrow night.
>
>    --bonniev

Do you miss your fireplace?

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:07:31 2003
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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
To: "words" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Max the wonder dog
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:05:44 -0600
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We moved into an older house recently. It is a lovely Craftsman bungalow
built in 1919, and though I have some difficulty getting in and out, we love
it. Max started growling at the bathroom about two weeks ago. We could not
figure it out. Then he started trying to keep me from going in there. I was
tempted to call an exorcist.

Yesterday my husband decided to go ahead and pull the tiles from the
backwall of the tub enclosure, which we were going to replace with a new tub
surround. He found that there used to be a window in that wall and that the
replacement of the window with plywood and insulation was poorly done. He
pulled out two garbage bags full of wet, mildewed and molded fiberglass
insulation, moldy and wet plasterboard or whatever you call that stuff they
put on walls. It should have been greenboard which resists moisture. Also he
discovered that most of the ceramic tiles just "popped off" with a little
finger pressure. There was much leakage from the shower. Careful inspection
shows that the leakage was from the inside out, rather than vice versa.
While there is still a mess, at least it is not as expensive a mess.

But the mildew and mold is good for no one and especially not for an
immune-compromised person. Max strikes again. Shoulda listened to him two
weeks ago. At least it wasn't starlings in the attic again. (another day,
another story)

Jo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:09:32 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <f05111b02ba747e494cda@[203.14.156.25]>           
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:11:28 -0600
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> At 12:54 AM 2/16/2003 -0600, Doris Markland wrote:
> >Now they've got the movie characters all
> >smoking again too, so a bunch of kids
> >out there are going to be suckered in again.
>
> I hate that!  Do the cigarette companies pay the people to smoke their
brand ?
>
> Betty

I suspect that is going on, as it did years ago.

A few people in the movie business are vocal
on stopping this trend . . among them, Rob
Reiner.  I don't know what they are doing
about it though.

                          - D. M.

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Max the wonder dog
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:15:28 -0600
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> We moved into an older house recently. It is a lovely Craftsman
bungalow
> built in 1919, and though I have some difficulty getting in and out,
we love
> it. Max started growling at the bathroom about two weeks ago. > > etc.
> Jo

Bet you could rent Max out by the
hour and make megabucks.

                 - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:22:15 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:20:19 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:

> Who ARE some of those people??
>
> AJ Janschewitz? Thomas Stuart? Haz M. Said? Judith Wagner? Melissa Appleby?
> Markus? Mahesh? Jason Bladt?

I'm not sure where Tom Stuart is these days.  He and I kept up for a
long time, and he even visited me in Starkville one time.  He was living
in upstate NY then.  He was first at Buffalo but then at Penn Yan(??).
He's the one I helped with an online library detective project for
children.  Bernard Y. Kins was one of the major characters involved.
Anyway, we've lost touch somehow.

Wasn't Judith Wagner at one of the Snowbashes?  Or was it the time y'all
went to watch Bonnie erg?  Something like that.  She lived somewhere up
that way and was something of a regular here for a while.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:23:02 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:

> It's there. I bought some in soybean oil not too long ago.
>
> It's probably on the lower shelves.

I looked just that one time at Wmart.  I should look again sometime, or
maybe I should look at another grocery store.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:23:49 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] Max the wonder dog
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> Bet you could rent Max out by the
> hour and make megabucks.
>
>                  - D. M.

He's a slut dog. Will work for bonz or chew toys.

Jo

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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> Actually I have one dog. I seldom list Max in the "pets" list because he is
> my assistance dog. I was severely injured in an auto accident leaving me
> considerably impaired. Max is a very large golden labrador who does
> everything for me.

I like the sound of Max.  My friends in Winter Harbor, Maine, have a
very nice yellow lab named Max.  Or I guess he's still alive.

> will be interesting in about 5 years when we will have to retire him. He is
> beginning to show the very early signs of age.

How old is he?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:25:43 2003
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Joanne Jemison wrote:
> Just what kind of
> group is this anyway.

Now that is not an easy question.  I think it might be unanswerable.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:26:34 2003
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> > I'm glad we've agreed upon "doing #1" as the right term.
>
> Not with the damn SYMBOLS AND NUMERALS!

You're right.  I'll be careful not to say it that way.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty wrote:

> >Ha. I still haven't forgiven Bush for his deliberate slighting of
> >the long-term unemployed. No one except the Democrats seems to
> >hae noticed this.
>
> A cow-orker's son bought two hummers.  He is happy. I guess it was either
> another hummer or pay taxes. I couldn't actually figure it all out.

I don't follow this.  Isn't a hummer some kind of vehicle?  What does it
have to do with being unemployed?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty wrote:

> >Nor I. Is he unemployed?
>
> No, I think he owns his own business.  Some kind of write off allowed.

Ah so.  Buy another hummer so as not to have to pay taxes so that others
can starve.  Makes good Republican sense.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:32:59 2003
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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> I often dream, when I am in one of my Quixote phases, just what we could
> with all that bomb and blow up money if we were to spend it on
> life-enhancing things rather than life-ending things. But then, I am moved
> still by MLK's speech and still believe that there is hope.
>
> Frantically tilting at windmills and still believing,

I knew I liked your attitudes.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Peter Kaminski wrote:

> Here's a picture of Ethan and me (with my camera) sitting next to Ev last
> weekend in Marin: <http://tinyurl.com/5wog>.  Not that Ev let on at the
> time. :)

My gosh.  Ethan looks as old as you do!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 08:26 AM 2/16/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Betty wrote:
>
> > >Ha. I still haven't forgiven Bush for his deliberate slighting of
> > >the long-term unemployed. No one except the Democrats seems to
> > >hae noticed this.
> >
> > A cow-orker's son bought two hummers.  He is happy. I guess it was either
> > another hummer or pay taxes. I couldn't actually figure it all out.
>
>I don't follow this.  Isn't a hummer some kind of vehicle?  What does it
>have to do with being unemployed?

The opposite of being unemployed. Life is good for this person.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:36:00 2003
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bonniev wrote:
>
> According to Geddy's cam  http://www.geddys.com/harborcam01.html  a section

I don't see you in the picture.  Have you gone to get the newspaper yet?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> No, I think not.
> Late night musing I regretted.
> Definitely the wrong forum.
> Blogging off.
>
>         - D. M.
>
> > Hey Doris, couldja name these things, factors etc. Can't make
> > head or tail of what you're talking about. What are you
> > referring to?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -rashmi

Why the wrong forum?  What would the right forum be?  I found what you
said interesting but didn't know what you meant exactly.  Why would
anger and frustration be growing?  Do you believe that human beings
today are basically different from human beings hundreds of years ago?
Has <human nature> somehow changed?  If so, in what ways, and why do you
think it has?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:39:33 2003
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>>This morning it is snowy ice.  It's nine below zero (-23C) at 8
>>a.m.   Another winter storm coming our way tomorrow night.
>>    --bonniev
>
>Do you miss your fireplace?
>Betty

I miss the wood stove a little bit.  Not that much, actually.   We haven't
had a fireplace since moving to Maine.  I noticed last night that the
fireplace in the front room of the Inn was throwing zero heat.  I guess
it's true that much of the heat goes up the chimney.  The fire place in the
back room, however, seemed nice and cozy.  Maybe it was actually the
furnace that was making that room warm.    A fire place is nice to take the
chill off a room when the temps are in the 40s and it is damp outside.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 08:41:25 2003
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Betty wrote:

> I hate that!  Do the cigarette companies pay the people to smoke their brand ?

Do cigarette brands usually show up in movies?  I guess they would in
some cases, like if a pack is clearly shown.  I hadn't noticed any
increase in smoking in movies, but then I never see new movies.  Maybe
the smoking ones are ones I haven't gotten to yet.  (I see movies after
they're available on tape.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:53:29 -0600
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> > No, I think not.
> > Late night musing I regretted.
> > Definitely the wrong forum.
> > Blogging off.
> >
> >         - D. M.
> >
> > > Hey Doris, couldja name these things, factors etc. Can't make
> > > head or tail of what you're talking about. What are you
> > > referring to?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > -rashmi
>
> Why the wrong forum?  What would the right forum be?  I found what you
> said interesting but didn't know what you meant exactly.  Why would
> anger and frustration be growing?  Do you believe that human beings
> today are basically different from human beings hundreds of years ago?
> Has <human nature> somehow changed?  If so, in what ways, and why do
you
> think it has?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


This falls into the category of
"those who have ears to hear."
It is not a subject for intellectualizing.

             - D. M.

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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>Wasn't Judith Wagner at one of the Snowbashes?  Or was it the time y'all
>went to watch Bonnie erg?  Something like that.  She lived somewhere up
>that way and was something of a regular here for a while.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I've never heard of her so I doubt she was at Ergfest.   This weekend, by
the way, would be the seventh anniversary of Ergfest.   In Boston today
people are rowing and puking.   I'm glad I'm not there.  However, I was
wondering the other day what the qualifying time would be for a free plane
ticket in three years when I am 60.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:41:13 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Max the wonder dog
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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> But the mildew and mold is good for no one and especially not for an
> immune-compromised person. Max strikes again. Shoulda listened to him two
> weeks ago. At least it wasn't starlings in the attic again. (another day,
> another story)

I like Max more and more.  I also want to borrow your husband.  I bet he
could pull out the bathtub I want to replace and could inspect what's
under it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: bay is freezing
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> > According to Geddy's cam  http://www.geddys.com/harborcam01.html  a section
>
>I don't see you in the picture.  Have you gone to get the newspaper yet?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Nope.  The newspapers don't arrive in Bar Harbor from Boston until after 10
a.m.  However, I'm unlikely to walk down in wind chills of minus 22.   That
means exposed skin will freeze in 15 minutes.  I'd arrive back home with a
black, falling off nose.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 08:51:22 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >Wasn't Judith Wagner at one of the Snowbashes?  Or was it the time y'all
> >went to watch Bonnie erg?  Something like that.  She lived somewhere up
> >that way and was something of a regular here for a while.
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> I've never heard of her so I doubt she was at Ergfest.   This weekend, by

I just grepped the digests and found references to the Judith I was
remembering.  It wasn't Judith Wagner.  It was Judith K.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:38:06 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Joanne Jemison wrote:

>He's a slut dog. Will work for bonz or chew toys.

He'll fit right in here!

Bethany

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Doris Markland wrote:

> > Why the wrong forum?  What would the right forum be?  I found what you
> > said interesting but didn't know what you meant exactly.  Why would
> > anger and frustration be growing?  Do you believe that human beings
> > today are basically different from human beings hundreds of years ago?
> > Has <human nature> somehow changed?  If so, in what ways, and why do
> you
> > think it has?

> This falls into the category of
> "those who have ears to hear."
> It is not a subject for intellectualizing.

I don't understand this answer.  People who try to think don't have
ears?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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> > I've never heard of her so I doubt she was at Ergfest.   This weekend, by
>
>I just grepped the digests and found references to the Judith I was
>remembering.  It wasn't Judith Wagner.  It was Judith K.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Yes, she was definitely there.  I shared my hotel room with her.  Adam said
he was going to invite her to SnowBash.

By the way, I just googled the Crash-B Sprints and they are not until next
Sunday.  Odd.  They were always on Valentine's Day weekend.   This year
they are at the Reggie Lewis Track and Athletic Center.   Sounds like
they've crossed the river and hit the big time.  The official hotel is the
Boston Back Bay Hilton.

I also googled the qualifying times.   The time for a 60-year-old
heavyweight woman was something I could just barely do when I turned
50.   I'm a Has Been.

    --bonniev

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>This falls into the category of
>"those who have ears to hear."
>It is not a subject for intellectualizing.
>              - D. M.

Doris, you wound us.   Is words-l really sound and fury signifying
nothing?  Is it all empty intellectualizing?   Are we not able to listen
and learn?   Are you so willing to give up on us?

Please, go ahead and explain at least part of it.  Tell Natalie why  anger
and frustration is growing in the human race.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:04:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 8:05:44 AM, you wrote:
> But the mildew and mold is good for no one and especially not for an
> immune-compromised person. Max strikes again. Shoulda listened to him two
> weeks ago. At least it wasn't starlings in the attic again. (another day,
> another story)

Mold is a huge problem where I live in Texas. I absolutely live
in fear of it. I don't know that they have mold-sniffing dogs,
though. Max (and your husband) is really a treasure.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:25:23 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:04:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 8:36:52 AM, you wrote:
> A fire place is nice to take the
> chill off a room when the temps are in the 40s and it is damp outside.

Yes, even a gas log.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: introduction
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Natalie Maynor:
= Peter Kaminski wrote:
=
= > Here's a picture of Ethan and me (with my camera) sitting next to Ev last
= > weekend in Marin: <http://tinyurl.com/5wog>.  Not that Ev let on at the
= > time. :)
=
= My gosh.  Ethan looks as old as you do!
=

You need your eyes adjusted.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:33:43 2003
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From: "Espen S. Ore" <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
Subject: Treasure hunting
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I have been working with my grandmother's diaries for some years now, and belive I may be able to publish one or both of them. But I also plan to look into my grandfather's notes and already published material to see if I can make a possible collection of some of his texts. Yesterday I found five more crates of papers etc. in my mother's attic, and indeed I found gold - figuratively. I found collections of newspaper clippings, among them the letters-from-abroad he wrote for one newspaper in 1932, and where I have been hunting microfiulm archives at the library for a week or so, and I also found more photos (I already have some) and - and this was great - his diary for part of the 1932-trip where I have my grandmother's diary. My grandfather financed that visit to Greece partly by his correspondance with the newspaper and partly with money from a research fund: he was studying modern seasonal migration by shepherds in Greece. This diary has some of his research notes. I will !
also h
ave to work through the archives in the funding institution, but that comes later. The final treasure I found in one of the crates yesterday was a small potsherd, probably from Mycenae, and on the backside it was written LH III which I guess is Late Helladic III, and that suits fine with Mycenae where my grandfather was involved with the digging in 1922.

Espen

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Joanne Jemison wrote:
>
> Is anyone else here as flat out terrified by the Homeland Security Office as
> I am?

Yes. I am glad you've become a Wordsler.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:39:25 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 07:41:43 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Treasure hunting
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Wow! What a find. Congratulations.

Betty

At 04:30 PM 2/16/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>I have been working with my grandmother's diaries for some years now, and
>belive I may be able to publish one or both of them. But I also plan to
>look into my grandfather's notes and already published material to see if
>I can make a possible collection of some of his texts. Yesterday I found
>five more crates of papers etc. in my mother's attic, and indeed I found
>gold - figuratively. I found collections of newspaper clippings, among
>them the letters-from-abroad he wrote for one newspaper in 1932, and where
>I have been hunting microfiulm archives at the library for a week or so,
>and I also found more photos (I already have some) and - and this was
>great - his diary for part of the 1932-trip where I have my grandmother's
>diary. My grandfather financed that visit to Greece partly by his
>correspondance with the newspaper and partly with money from a research
>fund: he was studying modern seasonal migration by shepherds in Greece.
>This diary has some of his research notes. I will !
>also h
>ave to work through the archives in the funding institution, but that
>comes later. The final treasure I found in one of the crates yesterday was
>a small potsherd, probably from Mycenae, and on the backside it was
>written LH III which I guess is Late Helladic III, and that suits fine
>with Mycenae where my grandfather was involved with the digging in 1922.
>
>Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:45:42 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: introduction
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:43:47 +0000
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>Joanne Jemison wrote:
> > Just what kind of
> > group is this anyway.

>Now that is not an easy question.  I think it might be unanswerable.

Nah, it's easy. This is your average old fart group/list.

Welcome.

-rashmi





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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:46:24 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:44:29 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>I thought it began with Marie's talking about an upcoming wine-tasting
>party.

For which I bought a bottle of French Bordeaux yesterday.

Marie

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:47:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Treasure hunting
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:30:07 AM, you wrote:
> The final treasure I found in one of the crates yesterday was a
> small potsherd, probably from Mycenae, and on the backside it
> was written LH III which I guess is Late Helladic III, and that
> suits fine with Mycenae where my grandfather was involved with
> the digging in 1922.

This is way cool, Espen.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:49:52 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: introduction
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:47:57 -0500
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>From: bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM>
>>Joanne Jemison wrote:
>>
>> > Again, are you welcoming new members?
>>
>>Yes, inasmuch as you have ferrets.
>>alyce
>
>Yes, inasmuch as you have cats and are a woman of a certain age.   Welcome.

Actually, we might want to consider introducing quotas.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:51:25 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Treasure hunting
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> I have been working with my grandmother's diaries for some years now,
and belive I may be able to publish one or both of them. But I also plan
to look into my grandfather's notes and already published material to
see if I can make a possible collection of some of his texts. Yesterday
I found five more crates of papers etc. in my mother's attic, and indeed
I found gold - figuratively. I found collections of newspaper clippings,
among them the letters-from-abroad he wrote for one newspaper in 1932,
and where I have been hunting microfiulm archives at the library for a
week or so, and I also found more photos (I already have some) and - and
this was great - his diary for part of the 1932-trip where I have my
grandmother's diary. My grandfather financed that visit to Greece partly
by his correspondance with the newspaper and partly with money from a
research fund: he was studying modern seasonal migration by shepherds in
Greece. This diary has some of his research notes. I will !
> also h
> ave to work through the archives in the funding institution, but that
comes later. The final treasure I found in one of the crates yesterday
was a small potsherd, probably from Mycenae, and on the backside it was
written LH III which I guess is Late Helladic III, and that suits fine
with Mycenae where my grandfather was involved with the digging in 1922.
>
> Espen

I cannot imagine how exciting all this
is for you!  It's great.

               - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:51:34 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:49:28 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>   It's nine below zero (-23C) at 8
> a.m.   Another winter storm coming our way tomorrow night.

I don't know how cold it got last night,  but now at 10:45, it is up to
+2F. ALthough my furnace has been running non-stop, it is too cold now
for it to keep up and the indoor temperature is down to about 62.
Therefore, I have been watching the Sunday news shows in bed under many
blankets. I wanted to wash my hair, but don't want to risk catching
cold. By tomorrow it should start warming up. This was the second
extraordinary period of cold this winter. I hope it is the last.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:55:04 2003
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Betty wrote:
> >
> I hate that!  Do the cigarette companies pay the people to smoke their brand ?

The actors don't get the money for product placement; the producers do.
And it is big bucks, not just for cigarettes, but cars, clothes,
beverages, stuff you may not really notice but will absorb subliminally.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 09:58:12 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:56:17 -0500
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>From: Carolyn Baird <cas@BORONIA.APANA.ORG.AU>
>At 6:06 PM -0600 15/2/03, Karen Kay wrote:
>>You were lurking the entire time????? That's the part I find
>>amazing. I don't find long absences from the list amazing at all.
>
>Yes...

Bizarre behavior. You are the perennial wallflower?

Marie


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 10:01:25 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:00:10 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Party Report
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Despite the snow, we only had one girl cancel out (I think
her mom wasn't wild about her attending in the first place).

We played tag, hide and seek, and had a huge pillow fight.
I had a blast.  Every time a girl would arrive, all present
would plaster themselves to the front window and shriek.
Hard to miss the house that way.  We played a game of
quarters (girls pass quarters around and then guess who has
it) and spin the bottle (chain story) -- just so they could
go home and tell their parents that's what they played :).

Two left around 10:30 in the ice and snow... I felt bad, but
there wasn't anything I could do about it.  The rest fell
asleep around midnight.

Shrieking and jumping re-commenced at 7:15am sharp.

All girls are gone right now (Ana is at Sunday School), so
I'm going to take a shower and look forward to a nap after
service.

Whew.  Totally worth it.  I laughed all night.

--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 10:06:29 2003
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"Espen S. Ore" wrote:
>
> I have been working with my grandmother's diaries for some years now, and belive I may be able to publish one or both of them. But I also plan to look into my grandfather's notes and already published material to see if I can make a possible collection of some of his texts. Yesterday I found five more crates of papers etc. in my mother's attic, and indeed I found gold - figuratively. I found collections of newspaper clippings, among them the letters-from-abroad he wrote for one newspaper in 1932, and where I have been hunting microfiulm archives at the library for a week or so, and I also found more photos (I already have some) and - and this was great - his diary for part of the 1932-trip where I have my grandmother's diary. My grandfather financed that visit to Greece partly by his correspondance with the newspaper and partly with money from a research fund: he was studying modern seasonal migration by shepherds in Greece. This diary has some of his research notes. I will !
> also h
> ave to work through the archives in the funding institution, but that comes later. The final treasure I found in one of the crates yesterday was a small potsherd, probably from Mycenae, and on the backside it was written LH III which I guess is Late Helladic III, and that suits fine with Mycenae where my grandfather was involved with the digging in 1922.

I am excited for you. THis is great.

alyce

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At 10:00 AM 2/16/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:

>Whew.  Totally worth it.  I laughed all night.

Fun, but I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore. I loved waking up and
finding kids all over my living room floor though.

Beautiful day. We're off to Monterey. Don't chase the new person away.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 10:09:17 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:07:25 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> Whew.  Totally worth it.  I laughed all night.

Good. Glad it was a success. But I am not surprised.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 10:10:16 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:08:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 10:10:55 AM, you wrote:
> Fun, but I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore. I loved waking up and
> finding kids all over my living room floor though.

That's how we used to have to sleep...

> Beautiful day. We're off to Monterey. Don't chase the new person away.

Wave at some cormorants for me!

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 10:11:01 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:09:25 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 10:00:10 AM, you wrote:
> Shrieking and jumping re-commenced at 7:15am sharp.

Oh. Wow.

> Whew.  Totally worth it.  I laughed all night.

Good!

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 10:18:46 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:16:51 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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A high school acquaintance asked me to help him find submission info for
the following literary magazines.  I haven't made it through the whole
list yet but so far am having the same problems he did.  Do any of you
list creative writers know anything about these publications, like
whether some of them have died?

> "Sequoia" -- Stanford

> "Hawaii Review"...there is a page to entice students
> to work there and a page that shows the cover, BUT no
> submission guidelines show????
>
> "Crazyhorse"...this is Arkansas and belongs to the
> University of Arkansas in Little Rock. I've been thru
> the college pages, but can't find a web page.
>
> Nevada..."Interim"....no clue
>
> New Hampshire..."Bone & Flesh"...nothing on Google
>
> Rhode Island..."Calliope"...nothing
>
> West Virginia..."Grab-A-Nickel"..nada

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 10:24:05 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: introduction
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:22:10 -0500
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>From: Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM>
>Good Lord, first a test about chickens and now donkeys? Just what kind of
>group is this anyway.

A thinly veiled swingers group.

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com



_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 11:11:03 2003
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Natalie Maynor writes,

>My gosh.  Ethan looks as old as you do!

Taller and hair less thinning, at least. :)

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 11:24:49 2003
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Natalie Maynor:
= A high school acquaintance asked me to help him find submission info for
= the following literary magazines.  I haven't made it through the whole
= list yet but so far am having the same problems he did.  Do any of you
= list creative writers know anything about these publications, like
= whether some of them have died?

I don't know whether any of them are dead, but this certainly
looks like a case of not everything being on the web.


=
= > "Sequoia" -- Stanford
=
= > "Hawaii Review"...there is a page to entice students
= > to work there and a page that shows the cover, BUT no
= > submission guidelines show????
= >


Hawaii Pacific Review
Hawaii Pacific University
1060 Bishop Street
Honolulu, HI 96813
hpreview@hpu.edu
Annual.

= > "Crazyhorse"...this is Arkansas and belongs to the
= > University of Arkansas in Little Rock. I've been thru
= > the college pages, but can't find a web page.

http://www.ualr.edu/~english/chorse.htm = dead link!
= >
= > Nevada..."Interim"....no clue
Interim
English Dept.
University of Nevada
Las Vegas, NV 89154
James Hazen, Editor
Biannual.
= >
= > New Hampshire..."Bone & Flesh"...nothing on Google

http://titan.iwu.edu/~jplath/statesbest.html
= >
= > Rhode Island..."Calliope"...nothing
= >
 Rhode Island--Calliope, Creative Writing Program, Roger Williams
College, Bristol, RI 02809. Since 1977. 2/year--subscriptions,
$5.


= > West Virginia..."Grab-A-Nickel"..nada

 Grab-a-Nickel, Alderson-Broaddus College in
Phillippi, West Virginia

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 11:36:20 2003
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: introduction
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At 11:22 AM 2/16/2003 -0500, marie wrote:
>>From: Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM>
>>Good Lord, first a test about chickens and now donkeys? Just what kind of
>>group is this anyway.
>
>A thinly veiled swingers group.

...or, as one disaffected person wrote in signing off:  "A morass of
self-reference."

cwv

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:50:43 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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For those with idle time, who are interested in books, I give you this
URL without endorsement of any kind, just because it has so much on it.
In addition to all else, she has a blog.

http://www.bookbitch.com/hmmm.htm
--
alyce

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 09:56:30 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
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>Rita Chapman writes,
>
>>         Take note, Pete.
>
>You cheated and asked about "architecture" instead of "architect."
>
>But let's see:
>
>"Pete looks at the Internet with great joy, and particularly appreciates
>the cornice treatments."
>
>Hmm, might work.

I'd rather do business with a company that had bios like that than
with your company as it currently presents itself. If I may propose
an improvement: "Pete looks at Internet architecture with great
joy..."

Anyway,
Janet

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:01:35 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>At 12:54 AM 2/16/2003 -0600, Doris Markland wrote:
>>Now they've got the movie characters all
>>smoking again too, so a bunch of kids
>>out there are going to be suckered in again.
>
>I hate that!  Do the cigarette companies pay the people to smoke their brand ?

Almost certainly. There are product placements in every other
consumer category, so there's no reason to suppose that they'd make
an exception for cigarettes.

The credits for "Daredevil" (don't bother, except perhaps for Colin
Farrell having way too much fun as an over-the-top bad guy) show a
credit for "clearances and product placements." I counted half a
dozen or so without really looking for them.

But do movies show good guys smoking? I can't remember any I've seen
lately that do -- mostly smoking is a lazy writer's shortcut for
announcing "this is a bad guy" (or at least a morally ambiguous guy).
Back in the days when smoking was OK, they used beard stubble -- now
beard stubble stands for beleaguered-good-guy. Sweatiness is almost
always a clue, though.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 12:06:09 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:04:07 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:

> I don't know whether any of them are dead, but this certainly
> looks like a case of not everything being on the web.

That is also my conclusion.  The only one of them I've found a website
with submissions info for is Interim at UNLV.

> Hawaii Pacific Review
> Hawaii Pacific University
> 1060 Bishop Street
> Honolulu, HI 96813
> hpreview@hpu.edu

He's looking for submission info online.

> http://www.ualr.edu/~english/chorse.htm = dead link!

Yes.  And if you go back from it, there's no mention of "Crazy Horse."
I told him that my guess is that it has either died or moved.

> = > Nevada..."Interim"....no clue
> Interim
> English Dept.
> University of Nevada
> Las Vegas, NV 89154
> James Hazen, Editor
> Biannual.

That one's no problem.  I found the website for him.  It's linked to the
UNLV English Dept's page.

> = > New Hampshire..."Bone & Flesh"...nothing on Google
>
> http://titan.iwu.edu/~jplath/statesbest.html

That's the site he started with -- it's how he found the names of these
publications.

>  Rhode Island--Calliope, Creative Writing Program, Roger Williams
> College, Bristol, RI 02809. Since 1977. 2/year--subscriptions,
> $5.

I haven't been able to find the submission info on their website.

> = > West Virginia..."Grab-A-Nickel"..nada
>
>  Grab-a-Nickel, Alderson-Broaddus College in
> Phillippi, West Virginia

It's apparently no longer associated with that college.  The ABC website
mentions another literary magazine.  GAN is also supposedly associated
with a literary group (can't remember the name now) which doesn't seem
to have a website.

Thanks for playing, though!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 12:11:34 2003
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steph wrote:

> = My gosh.  Ethan looks as old as you do!
>
> You need your eyes adjusted.

Perhaps.  But he sure doesn't look like the little boy I last saw.  The
last time I saw Ethan, I noticed that he had grown enormously since the
previous time.  But he still had something of a little-boy look, the way
children of that age often do even though they've suddenly gotten tall.
In this picture, though, he looks like a <grownup>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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What a find!!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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clyde w. voigtlander:
= At 11:22 AM 2/16/2003 -0500, marie wrote:
= >>From: Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM>
= >>Good Lord, first a test about chickens and now donkeys? Just what kind of
= >>group is this anyway.
= >
= >A thinly veiled swingers group.
=
= ...or, as one disaffected person wrote in signing off:  "A morass of
= self-reference."
=
= cwv

No, not a morass, a bog.  Besides, that was a long time ago, and
the guy's dead, so what does he know!

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Betty wrote:
>
> Wow! What a find. Congratulations.
       ^^^^^^^^^^^
Why did you steal my words?  Never mind that I wrote them hours after
you wrote yours, but I am confident that you had precognition of what I
was going to say.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

> Whew.  Totally worth it.  I laughed all night.

Good description.  Thanks!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] Is this for real?
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:36:03 -0600
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> > This falls into the category of
> > "those who have ears to hear."
> > It is not a subject for intellectualizing.
>
> I don't understand this answer.  People who try to think don't have
> ears?
>
I would not attempt to answer for Doris, but for myself... there are topics
about which I can present no rational or fact-based arguments. They are
simply things about which I feel deeply, and my arguments and attempts to
"recruit" are based solely on emotion or if you will soul-thought. Those
people who cling valiantly to fact-based discussions seldom have "ears to
hear" on those topics, so I avoid them. I would guess that there is some of
that on this list -- prove it to me with hard facts. Not a criticism. Those
kind of people are valuable and important. But if I have emotional and
spiritual investment in the topic, I don't necessarily want to subject
myself to having to argue it with fact-based reasoners.

Jo

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At 07:11 PM 2/16/2003 +0100, steph wrote:

>No, not a morass, a bog.  Besides, that was a long time ago, and
>the guy's dead, so what does he know!

Bog---that's it.  And you're right, how can we know what (or if) he knows?

cwv

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Janet Hardy writes,

>I'd rather do business with a company that had bios like that than
>with your company as it currently presents itself.

Could you give me just a couple words describing the way you find that we
present ourselves, as constructive criticism?

>If I may propose an improvement: "Pete looks at Internet architecture with
>great joy..."

"Looks" sounds flatter than I'd like.

"Pete finds great joy in good Internet architecture?"

"Pete is a bridge-builder who uses social software and networks instead of
steel or stones?"

Pete

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:19:23 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: housekeeping IMFTATL
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I'm finding that a conventional mop doesn't really do all that great
a job on the concrete floors here, and it seems like it might be
worth it to purchase some sort of mechanical device that would work
better. Does anybody have any suggestions or recommendations for a
scrubber or steamer or some such that works well on hard surfaces?

Janet

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> an improvement: "Pete looks at Internet architecture with great
> joy..."

...Leading a prospective customer who doesn't know Pete to wonder if he's a
blithering idiot who finds great joy in all sorts of unexpected things, like
shopping carts and garbage scows.

-aht

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:39:02 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
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>Janet Hardy writes,
>
>>I'd rather do business with a company that had bios like that than
>>with your company as it currently presents itself.
>
>Could you give me just a couple words describing the way you find that we
>present ourselves, as constructive criticism?

Um, tedious? <anxious grin to let you know I love you anyway>

It's really hard for a company, especially a high-tech company, to
break free of the sameness of corporate communications (which Clyde
parodied rather neatly). I like the way you're trying to give the
reader a sense of the people involved, but what you're actually
telling us about them could be true of any group of Silly Valley
entrepreneurs. I'd spend a little time trying to find out one fact or
factoid about each of you that's true of you and only you, and that's
at least in some way relevant to what you're trying to accomplish,
and then present that in an entertaining way. Then present the actual
important data with a couple of bullet points underneath.

"Pete Kaminski loves Internet architecture so much that he <whatever>."
€  10 years' experience building Internet apps and engineering connectivity

On the same note, I'd love to see photos of you all that aren't the
standard posed studio headshots. It would be cool to have a picture
of all of youl working together around a table, with your bio
material underneath each person. (Of course, such a photo would be
far more difficult and expensive to set up than the studio shots, but
it has action and personality instead of looking like a high-school
yearbook.)

Janet

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:44:29 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
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>  > an improvement: "Pete looks at Internet architecture with great
>>  joy..."
>
>...Leading a prospective customer who doesn't know Pete to wonder if he's a
>blithering idiot who finds great joy in all sorts of unexpected things, like
>shopping carts and garbage scows.

Perhaps. But in my experience the very best high-tech folks truly
love good technology, in the same way that a musician loves to listen
to music. And the "cornice treatments" part is tongue-in-cheek enough
to reassure the reader that this isn't supposed to be taken too
literally.

What they're trying to accomplish with Socialtext has to do, by
definition, with interpersonal relations; impersonal bios conflict
with the core message.

Janet

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> Mold is a huge problem where I live in Texas. I absolutely live
> in fear of it. I don't know that they have mold-sniffing dogs,
> though. Max (and your husband) is really a treasure.
>
Max is quite extra-ordinary. We did not know that he could sniff mold.
Actually it is probably the mildew he was smelling. He is extremely
protective of me. We originally got him because of a different quality that
he possesses. He is a seizure dog. He can predict my seizures before they
happen so I can get into a safe place. It was only after he was with us for
about a month and started wanting to help me in other ways that we took him
back for more training. He gets my chair for me when I want to go out. He
has a backpack to carry things. He opens doors, herds the ferrets (no mean
task, lots of nipping involved), pulls the phone caddy to me when it rings,
and pulls me in my house chair when I don't have the power chair available.

Dogs are wonderful creatures.

Jo

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:50:55 EST
Subject: Re: introduction
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<< > Actually I have one dog. I seldom list Max in the "pets" list because he
is
> my assistance dog. I was severely injured in an auto accident leaving me
> considerably impaired. Max is a very large golden labrador who does
> everything for me.
 >>

Labs are definitely the best breed to have. I used to have a black labrador
we retrieved from a dogpound in Germany when my ex was stationed there. She
died of old age, (about 16 years), although we never knew her exact age
because she was full-grown, although still young when we got her, it was what
the vet estimated her to be.
Theo

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:53:39 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Max the wonder dog
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>  > Mold is a huge problem where I live in Texas. I absolutely live
>>  in fear of it. I don't know that they have mold-sniffing dogs,
>>  though. Max (and your husband) is really a treasure.
>>
>Max is quite extra-ordinary. We did not know that he could sniff mold.
>Actually it is probably the mildew he was smelling. He is extremely
>protective of me. We originally got him because of a different quality that
>he possesses. He is a seizure dog. He can predict my seizures before they
>happen so I can get into a safe place.

That is extremely cool -- I didn't know dogs could ever do that. Is
there any information about what factors enable them to predict the
seizures? What do they see/hear/smell/whatever that indicates a
seizure is on the way?

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 13:02:39 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:55:07 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Peter Kaminski <kaminski@istori.com>
Subject: Re: introduction
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Janet Hardy writes,

>What they're trying to accomplish with Socialtext has to do, by
>definition, with interpersonal relations; impersonal bios conflict
>with the core message.

Thanks for getting it, and for being a friend enough to criticize, Janet.

I should shut up there instead of making excuses, but I'll make an excuse
anyway: we shoved it out the door with the full knowledge it's imperfect,
with the knowledge we were launching mainly to friends, not the world, and
with the intent that evolve.

Better'n waiting until we get it right, and being nameless and faceless
until then.

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 13:02:37 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:21:34 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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>Why the wrong forum?  What would the right forum be?  I found what you
>said interesting but didn't know what you meant exactly.  Why would
>anger and frustration be growing?  Do you believe that human beings
>today are basically different from human beings hundreds of years ago?
>Has <human nature> somehow changed?  If so, in what ways, and why do you
>think it has?

Has anyone watched Penn & Teller's "Bullshit"? They debunk popular
myths, often of the paranormal -- this week it was the coming of
Armageddon. Very amusing, in an obnoxious loudmouthed way, which
pretty much describes Penn & Teller. (Did I tell y'all that Penn
Jillette spent several hours hanging out at BondCon, the bondage &
fetish convention I worked in Las Vegas?)

That said -- I think the thing that's changed the world most in the
last half-century or so is the broadcast media, particularly
television. We are constantly shown images of suffering about which
we can do nothing and of violence that has no immediate impact on us
or our families. As a result, in order to protect ourselves, we grow
simultaneously less empathetic and more fearful.

When you live in a city like San Francisco that has an enormous
homeless population, it's very easy to stop seeing homeless people,
or even to start to resent them, because the problem is just too big
and too frustrating and too scary to encompass. I think the same
thing happens on a worldwide basis when we spend our days looking at
vivid moving color pictures of violence and misery all over the globe
-- we can't feel all of it so we stop feeling any of it.

As for the fearfulness thing, I think Penn & Teller said their show
next week was about the perception and reality of the likelihood of
violence in the U.S., and Michael Moore did a nice treatment of it in
"Bowling for Columbine." For reasons I don't really understand -- on
bad days they make me paranoid and on good ones simply despairing --
everything in the culture and media seems to be teaming up to make
people feel that they are in constant and unrelenting danger. As a
result, we are beset with stress, depression and rage -- which are
all entirely appropriate reactions to feeling endangered.

Prolix and philosophical on a moderately depressive Sunday morning,
Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 13:02:37 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 10:17:11 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Party Report
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>At 10:00 AM 2/16/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>Whew.  Totally worth it.  I laughed all night.
>
>Fun, but I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore. I loved waking up and
>finding kids all over my living room floor though.

<nod> I still remember the time that Miles showed up on no notice
with 12 or so of his classmates (they'd been in the city looking at a
museum or something), looking for a place to spend the night. We put
the girls down in one room and the boys packed like sardines (many
more boys than girls) in the other. It was lots of fun, in a
dorm-mother kind of a way.

I believe that was the night that our household topped its previous
record for number of people under one roof, with 17. (We equalled it
a time or two after that.) This was back when we were living in the
big house on 41st Ave. -- the duplex would have a hard time housing
17 people, although I suppose if we used both flats we could have.
Here I could probably house 34 people as long as some of them were
willing to sleep on concrete floors.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 13:06:05 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] Max the wonder dog
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> That is extremely cool -- I didn't know dogs could ever do that. Is
> there any information about what factors enable them to predict the
> seizures? What do they see/hear/smell/whatever that indicates a
> seizure is on the way?
>
> Janet

The "experts" have no idea. Max is one of several hundred trained seizure
dogs. The best dogs for this are the herding dogs -- one of the first
seizure dogs was an Australian shepherd. But to the best of my knowledge no
one has yet figured out how they do it. Since it is a trait not dependent on
being a sight or scent hound, we are thinking that perhaps it has to do with
the subtle electro-magnetic field that each of us has. Max whines and puts
his head in my lap and tries to keep me from moving. I usually get about 3
minutes warning. It is cool because now if I can get into my motorized chair
I can go places without having to have one of the family with me. Pre-Max,
even a ride around the block was unsafe.

Jo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 13:34:21 2003
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> That is extremely cool -- I didn't know dogs could ever do that. Is
> there any information about what factors enable them to predict the
> seizures? What do they see/hear/smell/whatever that indicates a
> seizure is on the way?

I've seen a man on tv a couple of times with his dog who predicts heart
problems.  I think what I've seen has included discussion of how the dog
does it (speculations, at least), but I don't remember the details.  I'm
pretty sure I've got a book about that man and his dog -- a book my
RRSIL brought to my mother as one of her xmas presents and that my
mother would have loved reading if she had not by then reached the point
of tuning out everything.  I brought that one plus a couple of other
books home and have them sitting on a shelf to look at sometime.  The
name of the one I'm thinking of his something like _An Angel At My
Side_.  If it is the same man I've seen on tv, his story is perhaps even
more interesting in that he had never been a dog person before, had
never had a dog or wanted a dog.  After a heart attack (I think it was a
heart attack) he got this dog, and he now not only credits the dog with
saving his life but also considers the dog his best friend in the world.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:21:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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The name of the book is _The Angel By My Side_ by Mike Lingenfelter and
David Frei.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 2/16/2003 11:19:51 AM, verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<< I'm finding that a conventional mop doesn't really do all that great
a job on the concrete floors here, and it seems like it might be
worth it to purchase some sort of mechanical device that would work
better. Does anybody have any suggestions or recommendations for a
scrubber or steamer or some such that works well on hard surfaces?

Janet
 >>

I'm confused. Are those concrete floors INDOORS?
Theo

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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> It is a good observation, but attributed to the wrong people

But is this from Adina Levin part of SOcialText? Because I cannot get
the sense of this sentence and think there may be a word(s) missing.

These insights about suggest that there opportunities for social
software tools: to help people sustain more networked
conversations; ....


alyce

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Joanne Jemison wrote:
> Those
> people who cling valiantly to fact-based discussions seldom have "ears to
> hear" on those topics, so I avoid them.

I don't think of people as being only fact-based or only emotion-based,
although I guess maybe there are such people in the world.  I think of
topics as lending themselves more to emotion or more to reasoning.  Iow,
I would think it a normal and appropriate response if Doris said that
her feelings about people's anger and frustration or whatever are just
gut feelings.  In fact (no pun intended), I think it would be pretty
much impossible to produce <facts> on such a topic.  But I think it's
fun to try to think about where our gut feelings come from.  I think of
gut feelings as initially just hopping up into our awareness -- straight
from the gut, so to speak.  But when I have gut feelings, I enjoy
thinking about what, if anything, might have prompted them.  Sometimes I
reach no conclusions about it, of course.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Janet Hardy wrote:

> €  10 years' experience building Internet apps and engineering connectivity

Do others see a euro symbol at the beginning of that line?

> On the same note, I'd love to see photos of you all that aren't the
> standard posed studio headshots. It would be cool to have a picture
> of all of youl working together around a table, with your bio
> material underneath each person. (Of course, such a photo would be
> far more difficult and expensive to set up than the studio shots, but
> it has action and personality instead of looking like a high-school
> yearbook.)

How about individual pictures that represent something in the personal
lives of the people?  A picture of Pete playing with his children or a
picture of one of them with his dog or a picture of one of them shooting
marbles or whatever.  I guess you wouldn't want to emphasize hobbies
much, though, since hard-working techies are supposed to be hard at
work.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:09:28 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
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>Janet Hardy writes,
>
>>What they're trying to accomplish with Socialtext has to do, by
>>definition, with interpersonal relations; impersonal bios conflict
>>with the core message.
>
>Thanks for getting it, and for being a friend enough to criticize, Janet.
>
>I should shut up there instead of making excuses, but I'll make an excuse
>anyway: we shoved it out the door with the full knowledge it's imperfect,
>with the knowledge we were launching mainly to friends, not the world, and
>with the intent that evolve.
>
>Better'n waiting until we get it right, and being nameless and faceless
>until then.

Absolutely. Beta-testing with a small select group works for
marketing messages as well as software.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:10:53 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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>Joanne Jemison wrote:
>>  Those
>>  people who cling valiantly to fact-based discussions seldom have "ears to
>>  hear" on those topics, so I avoid them.
>
>I don't think of people as being only fact-based or only emotion-based,
>although I guess maybe there are such people in the world.  I think of
>topics as lending themselves more to emotion or more to reasoning.  Iow,
>I would think it a normal and appropriate response if Doris said that
>her feelings about people's anger and frustration or whatever are just
>gut feelings.  In fact (no pun intended), I think it would be pretty
>much impossible to produce <facts> on such a topic.  But I think it's
>fun to try to think about where our gut feelings come from.  I think of
>gut feelings as initially just hopping up into our awareness -- straight
>from the gut, so to speak.  But when I have gut feelings, I enjoy
>thinking about what, if anything, might have prompted them.  Sometimes I
>reach no conclusions about it, of course.

More to the point, there are quite a few people -- many,
unfortunately, on the 'Net -- who look for any discussion of personal
emotion or vulnerability as an opportunity to mock or belittle. Makes
it hard to talk about the important stuff; you need a thick hide.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:06:59 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> Could you give me just a couple words describing the way you find that we
> present ourselves, as constructive criticism?

Of course I understand nothing about wikis or what this whole thing is
about. However, I poked around and in this paragraph I find several
spelling and punctuation errors, which gives me the impression that
SocialText is careless.
I have put __ before and after the problems. There are
six errors in this short bit of copy. The last "sentence" is not a
sentence at all and I don't know what is meant by it. Also, I do not
know what faith based people are. I do know about faith-based
initiatives a la the White House plan, but not faith-based people.

Witness:
Kevin Jones will be writing here about his two projects, merchant bank
and the social capital intermediaries map and __it's__
latest draft, [should have a space here] mostly by Betsy Zeidman of
Milken __founation__. We have beaten off those who wanted to make this
yet another
academic __excercise__. We want to focus on bringing more capital into
the space and our differentiator is that we have the
courage to think small and solve a __discret__ problem of information
__asymetry__ for a discrete group of funds and their customers.
We are doing market research on what will move money, what will
accelerate the flow of capital to good. and Everyvoice.net, a network of
faith based people trying to make the world a place my kids can feel
better about.

alyce

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Peter Kaminski <kaminski@istori.com>
Subject: Re: introduction
In-Reply-To: <3E4FE153.CDEC6F4B@valstar.net>
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alyce cresap writes,

>Of course I understand nothing about wikis or what this whole thing is
>about. However, I poked around and in this paragraph I find several
>spelling and punctuation errors, which gives me the impression that
>SocialText is careless.

It is a good observation, but attributed to the wrong people (because we've
not made the boundaries clear enough, not because of you).

The text you're copy-editing is not part of Socialtext the company, but the
Socialtext public community Workspace.  It's like a post on a mailing list
or on Yahoo Groups; Socialtext didn't create it and doesn't maintain it
(even though it looks too much right now like we did).

Pete

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Subject: Re: Treasure hunting
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In a message dated 2/16/2003 9:04:46 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< I am excited for you. THis is great.

alyce
 >>

Absolutely wonderful, Espen. I'm jalous; wish I had something like that from
my forebears to treasure, but alas... it probably got lost with all those
wars going on in the past. Theo

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:21:34 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>  Ä  10 years' experience building Internet apps and engineering connectivity
>
>Do others see a euro symbol at the beginning of that line?

Probably. Without thinking, I used a Mac bullet (opt-8), which isn't
an ASCII character.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:32:38 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Peter Kaminski wrote:
> The text you're copy-editing is not part of Socialtext the company, but the
> Socialtext public community Workspace.  It's like a post on a mailing list
> or on Yahoo Groups; Socialtext didn't create it and doesn't maintain it
> (even though it looks too much right now like we did).

Mea culpa. As I said, I don't understand it. This old fart has all she
can do with plain old listserve stuff.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 13:51:47 2003
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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
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Natalie scripsit,
> >
> >I don't think of people as being only fact-based or only emotion-based,
> >although I guess maybe there are such people in the world

Hmmm.  Wonder how you got that from my comments. Guess I wasn't clear. I
don't think they are either. But there are a lot of people, especially
(sadly) amongst the self-assumed intelligentsia who refuse to give credence
to gut-feeling arguments or commentary. Their weapons are the "show me your
facts" kind, and they are often quite nasty in deploying them. This can be
hard if you are (a) thin-skinned or (b) very emotionally invested in the
topic or (c) a combination of both.

Sometimes it just doesn't seem worth the arguing since it is obvious you
will never persuade such folk. And the heart of an emotion-based conviction
is the desire to persuade others toward your opinion, or at least get a
concession from them that it has valid meaning for you.

Jo

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:37:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> I'm confused. Are those concrete floors INDOORS?

Sure. Lots of buildings have concrete floors. They are meant to be
carpeted, but that doesn't always get done. I think the best way to
clean them is to vacuum or just sweep them well. A wet mop just smears
dirt around because the surface is not perfectly smooth like lineoleum
or tile. My father's hardware store had concrete floors and it was
impossible to mop them well. We used sweeping compound--kind of an oiled
sawdust stuff.

alyce

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alyce cresap writes,

>But is this from Adina Levin part of SOcialText? Because I cannot get
>the sense of this sentence and think there may be a word(s) missing.

Yes, and yes.  I'll tell her -- thanks. :)

Pete

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In a message dated 2/16/2003 11:48:19 AM, jemison@MCHSI.COM writes:

<< Dogs are wonderful creatures.


Jo

 >>

Max is a treasure for sure. His name takes me back many years when I had an
aunt and uncle who had a dog named Max. Can't remember the breed now, only
that he was a big black dog, and I loved playing with him. :-)
Theo

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:48:23 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: housekeeping IMFTATL
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>In a message dated 2/16/2003 11:19:51 AM, verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
><< I'm finding that a conventional mop doesn't really do all that great
>a job on the concrete floors here, and it seems like it might be
>worth it to purchase some sort of mechanical device that would work
>better. Does anybody have any suggestions or recommendations for a
>scrubber or steamer or some such that works well on hard surfaces?
>
>I'm confused. Are those concrete floors INDOORS?

Yes. This is live-work space, a converted warehouse. The floors are
concrete painted gray, and I have some area rugs.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:47:25 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Joanne Jemison wrote:
> > >I don't think of people as being only fact-based or only emotion-based,
> > >although I guess maybe there are such people in the world
>
> Hmmm.  Wonder how you got that from my comments. Guess I wasn't clear. I
> don't think they are either.

I got it from this part of what you said:

| Those
| people who cling valiantly to fact-based discussions seldom have "ears
to
| hear" on those topics, so I avoid them. I would guess that there is
some of
| that on this list -- prove it to me with hard facts. Not a criticism.
Those
| kind of people are valuable and important. But if I have emotional and
| spiritual investment in the topic, I don't necessarily want to subject
| myself to having to argue it with fact-based reasoners.

The "fact-based reasonsers."

> But there are a lot of people, especially
> (sadly) amongst the self-assumed intelligentsia who refuse to give credence
> to gut-feeling arguments or commentary. Their weapons are the "show me your
> facts" kind, and they are often quite nasty in deploying them. This can be
> hard if you are (a) thin-skinned or (b) very emotionally invested in the
> topic or (c) a combination of both.

I'm not sure who the self-assumed intelligentsia are exactly, but I do
know what you (and Janet earlier) mean about nastiness.  I can think off
the top of my head of only one current Wordsler like that, though.

> concession from them that it has valid meaning for you.

I don't see how anybody can argue that somebody else's belief doesn't
have valid meaning for that person.  It's that person's belief, after
all.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 13:51:50 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 11:50:26 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: housekeeping IMFTATL
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>Theodora Groothof wrote:
>>
>>  I'm confused. Are those concrete floors INDOORS?
>
>Sure. Lots of buildings have concrete floors. They are meant to be
>carpeted, but that doesn't always get done. I think the best way to
>clean them is to vacuum or just sweep them well.

That works OK for most parts of the floor, but not in the kitchen. I
suppose what would work best would be to get down there with a scrub
brush and a sponge, but... no.

I don't think the floors here are meant to be carpeted. Like the
concrete pillars and the exposed brick walls, they're just part of
the look of the place (which, BTW, I quite like).

>A wet mop just smears
>dirt around because the surface is not perfectly smooth like lineoleum
>or tile.

Yes, exactly.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 13:51:51 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:49:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Have we discussed these mop things with removable <papers>?  Swifler or
Sniffler or Squiggler or some such name?  Somebody I was talking to last
week was recommending them and said I should get the "wet head" kind for
use on hardwood floors.  I saw some in Wmart yesterday but wasn't in the
mood to explore such things at that time.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 13:59:30 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 13:57:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 12:19:23 PM, you wrote:
> I'm finding that a conventional mop doesn't really do all that great
> a job on the concrete floors here, and it seems like it might be
> worth it to purchase some sort of mechanical device that would work
> better. Does anybody have any suggestions or recommendations for a
> scrubber or steamer or some such that works well on hard surfaces?

I have a friend with a concrete living room floor; I can ask her
what she uses, if you want.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:03:29 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:01:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Max the wonder dog
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 12:47:54 PM, you wrote:
> Max is quite extra-ordinary. We did not know that he could sniff mold.
> Actually it is probably the mildew he was smelling. He is extremely
> protective of me. We originally got him because of a different quality that
> he possesses. He is a seizure dog. He can predict my seizures before they
> happen so I can get into a safe place.

This is a wonderful gift.

I like the image of him herding ferrets.:)

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:04:21 2003
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>topics about which I can present no rational or fact-based arguments. They are
>simply things about which I feel deeply, and my arguments and attempts to
>"recruit" are based solely on emotion or if you will soul-thought. Those
>people who cling valiantly to fact-based discussions seldom have "ears to
>hear" on those topics, so I avoid them. I would guess that there is some of
>that on this list -- prove it to me with hard facts. Not a criticism. Those
>kind of people are valuable and important. But if I have emotional and
>spiritual investment in the topic, I don't necessarily want to subject
>myself to having to argue it with fact-based reasoners.
>Jo

Count me among the fact-based reasoners.   In fact, I'm not as generous as
you are.  I would never say "Not a criticism."  I don't even want to talk
to people who simply keep telling me "well, that's the way I feel about
it."   My reaction to those people is:   Fine.  Go emote to someone
else.   Until you can discuss why you feel that way and if those feelings
are at all valid, I don't want to hear it.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:07:18 2003
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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-16 | Anne Toal <toalanne@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> > an improvement: "Pete looks at Internet architecture with great
> > joy..."
>
> ...Leading a prospective customer who doesn't know Pete to wonder if he's
> a blithering idiot who finds great joy in all sorts of unexpected things,
> like shopping carts and garbage scows.

I won't take this tone since I am a practical-minded weasel, but
"aht" is right on one count at least--a traditional "businesslike"
stuffy tone IS of importance and nobody cares if the founders take
joy in this or that. Remember there are many thousand old farts for
one Janet, and they will shy from anything that sounds like a creepy
cult. More plainly--what visionary talks about the fact that he is
a visionary? This kind of thing will turn off many people with good
ideas.

This is not to be taken as flame ... actually I wanted to know if
I could contribute to this in any way--T Bone has ideas too, indeed
T Bone finds great joy in attempting to architect new structures of
network-borne communication--but I am pretty puzzled by what on earth
socialtext is about. Maybe I should take another look ...

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From: "natalie@maynor.net" <natalie@maynor.net>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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Message: This one is also appealing in a different kind of way.


I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address:337  State Street
City   :Bay St. Louis, MS  39520

Price :$135,000

Charming shotgun in Old Town.  Large landscaped fenced yard with deck.
Historic Register.  French doors, ceiling fans, hardwood floors and beaded-

To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/137277

LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors
www.latter-blum.com
800 Common St., Suite 1000
New Orleans, LA
(800) 428-8294

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From: "natalie@maynor.net" <natalie@maynor.net>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:21:17 -0600
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Message: Zero bathrooms?  That gives me pause.


I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address:311  Ulman
City   :Bay St. Louis, MS  39520

Price :$139,000

Great older home, built in 1898, central a/h 1 year old.  Large oak trees,
zoned C-1, but could be residence.  Selling as is, needs work, hardwood
floors, fenced lot

To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/138397

LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors
www.latter-blum.com
800 Common St., Suite 1000
New Orleans, LA
(800) 428-8294

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:13:40 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:13:17 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: housekeeping IMFTATL
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>Sunday, February 16, 2003, 12:19:23 PM, you wrote:
>>  I'm finding that a conventional mop doesn't really do all that great
>>  a job on the concrete floors here, and it seems like it might be
>>  worth it to purchase some sort of mechanical device that would work
>>  better. Does anybody have any suggestions or recommendations for a
>>  scrubber or steamer or some such that works well on hard surfaces?
>
>I have a friend with a concrete living room floor; I can ask her
>what she uses, if you want.

Thanks!

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:13:54 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:12:18 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 1:37:42 PM, you wrote:
> Sure. Lots of buildings have concrete floors. They are meant to be
> carpeted, but that doesn't always get done.

No. A lot of decorative concrete floors are not meant to be
carpeted. They are generally colored. The friend I mentioned
earlier, her living room floor is brown.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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02003-02-16 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> I don't understand this answer.  People who try to think don't have
> ears?

Let GO!

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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 1:43:32 PM, you wrote:

> alyce cresap writes,

>>But is this from Adina Levin part of SOcialText? Because I cannot get
>>the sense of this sentence and think there may be a word(s) missing.

> Yes, and yes.  I'll tell her -- thanks. :)

I can't imagine her making spelling errors, but I can easily
imagine her leaving out a word.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:15:09 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:13:11 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Hmm.  What happened to the first one I sent?  I see only the second and
third.  The first one is the one I adore -- a yellow shotgun house in
Old Town.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:16:29 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 12:16:07 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
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>02003-02-16 | Anne Toal <toalanne@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
>>  > an improvement: "Pete looks at Internet architecture with great
>>  > joy..."
>>
>>  ...Leading a prospective customer who doesn't know Pete to wonder if he's
>>  a blithering idiot who finds great joy in all sorts of unexpected things,
>>  like shopping carts and garbage scows.
>
>I won't take this tone since I am a practical-minded weasel, but
>"aht" is right on one count at least--a traditional "businesslike"
>stuffy tone IS of importance and nobody cares if the founders take
>joy in this or that.

I disagree. That would be the case if the prospective customer was a
businessperson with an eye on the bottom line -- later, when they
start trying to sell their architecture into other communities, the
strategy will be different -- but at this point they're just trying
to attract people to the site, regular people who have a particular
interest in interpersonal communication. Old-fart language is a
turnoff to such people.

Janet

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From: "natalie@maynor.net" <natalie@maynor.net>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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Message: This is the one I adore -- the one that my first sending of seemed
to vanish.


I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address:306  St.  George St.
City   :Bay St. Louis, MS  39520

Price :$129,900

Precious shot gun cottage. Hardwood flrs, landscaped, fenced lot. Move
right in real quality. Too many amenities to mention. Must see. Walk to
stores & beach. Gas lantern on welcoming porch. Double fireplace. Stained
glass windows, high ceilings  with fans.  Cypress doors and more

To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/137941

LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors
www.latter-blum.com
800 Common St., Suite 1000
New Orleans, LA
(800) 428-8294

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:18:30 2003
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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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02003-02-16 | Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> >From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
> >I thought it began with Marie's talking about an upcoming wine-tasting
> >party.
>
> For which I bought a bottle of French Bordeaux yesterday.

YUCK ... it's measured in "ml"!

Ha ha ha *hug*

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Have we discussed these mop things with removable <papers>?  Swifler or
> Sniffler or Squiggler or some such name?

I have the Chlorox one. I use it for quick pick-ups in the kitchen and
it works fine. I have not tried it for the whole floor, because I could
not do that much. Just yesterday, though, I wiped up snowy/salty
footprints from RIley when he tromped through the kitchen to feed the
birds from the back door.

alyce

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Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> I don't think the floors here are meant to be carpeted.

Agreed. I should have said "usually" or "often." My NYC apt. had
concrete floors that I was supposed to carpet, but I never got around to
it. I figured my oriental rugs were better anyway, and I wouldn't be
paying for the next tenant's floor treatment.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:25:55 2003
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Tushar Samant wrote:
> > I don't understand this answer.  People who try to think don't have
> > ears?
>
> Let GO!

You're way behind, Tushy.  We're past that topic now.  I'm into
house-hunting in Bay St. Louis.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:
> I can't imagine her making spelling errors, but I can easily
> imagine her leaving out a word.

I did not suggest she'd made a spelling error.

alyce

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"natalie@maynor.net" wrote:
>
> Message: Zero bathrooms?  That gives me pause.
>
It's possible. Reilly's house had no bathrooms when his parents bought
it in 1987. Incredible, but true.

alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:32:35 2003
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"natalie@maynor.net" wrote:
>
> Message: This one is also appealing in a different kind of way.
>
You're going to buy another house already?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:34:17 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:

> It's possible. Reilly's house had no bathrooms when his parents bought
> it in 1987. Incredible, but true.

I got the impression from something in the description that that one has
perhaps been commercial property.  I guess if you had a business in it
and lived nearby, you could run home to tt.

I'm not really interested in that house anyway.  I want the cute yellow
one.  And the one I've been looking at for ages is still for sale, but
I've figured out from the maps now where things are sort of, and I like
the location of the yellow one better than the previous one.  But the
previous one doesn't require flood insurance and has gas heat.  (The
heat isn't as big a concern there as it would be here, of course, since
winters on the coast are very mild.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:34:59 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > >
> It's possible. Reilly's

His name is Riley and I have no idea why I just spelled it this way.

alyce

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From: "natalie@maynor.net" <natalie@maynor.net>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
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Message: This is the one I've been looking at for ages -- the one we've
discussed here in the past.  It's farther from the heart of town than those
I discovered today are.


I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address:239  Carre Ct
City   :Bay St Louis, MS  39520

Price :$119,900

Precious cottage cozy & charming. Pleasure to show. Gourmet kitchen,
sunroom/sitting room. Workshop and very large covered carport for your
vehicles or boat also has garage.  Wonderful neighbor close to beach. No
flood insurance required high elevation.

To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/134017

LATTER & BLUM , Inc./Realtors Bay St. Louis
www.latter-blum.com
1188 Highway 90
Bay St. Louis, MS 39520-2451
(800) 215-4111

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:33:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 2:27:33 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I can't imagine her making spelling errors, but I can easily
>> imagine her leaving out a word.

> I did not suggest she'd made a spelling error.

You suggested that someone made errors in spelling and
punctuation. It wasn't clear to me (without going and checking
the site) whether you were talking about Adina or someone else.

Karen,
Just a tool of love

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:34:06 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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02003-02-16 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >02003-02-16 | Anne Toal <toalanne@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> >> > an improvement: "Pete looks at Internet architecture with great
> >> > joy..."
> >>
> >> ...Leading a prospective customer who doesn't know Pete to wonder if he's
> >> a blithering idiot who finds great joy in all sorts of unexpected things,
> >> like shopping carts and garbage scows.
> >
> >I won't take this tone since I am a practical-minded weasel, but
> >"aht" is right on one count at least--a traditional "businesslike"
> >stuffy tone IS of importance and nobody cares if the founders take
> >joy in this or that.
>
> I disagree. That would be the case if the prospective customer was a
> businessperson with an eye on the bottom line -- later, when they
> start trying to sell their architecture into other communities, the
> strategy will be different -- but at this point they're just trying
> to attract people to the site, regular people who have a particular
> interest in interpersonal communication. Old-fart language is a
> turnoff to such people.

I speak for the teeming masses and you for a freakazoid Californian
minority. *I* am turned off by "interpersonal" crap in the wrong place,
and so is every single one of my personal acquaintances who use the
web. Guess who will be attracted by more personal stuff at this stage?
You got it--fifty-six more techie white Californians talking vague
visionary sociology. Now guess what's the boldest piece of "social
text" current in America about these 64? Right again--they are not
a "revolution", they are not even a beginning, of anything. If you
want to attract real people, give their intelligence some respect.
Speak a language more universal than a day in the life of my tribe.
Let's see some hard-ass theory and facts presented with humility.
Not a "whiteboard" indistinguishable from a hundred other blogs.

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:34:53 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> You're going to buy another house already?

I've been talking for a long time about my thoughts of retiring in Bay
St. Louis.  That's what this is about -- finding a house there.  I would
sell this one and move.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:37:06 2003
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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> It wasn't clear to me (without going and checking
> the site) whether you were talking about Adina or someone else.

It was someone else who is not a part of SocialText and therefore does
not count. Except that it looks as if the person *is* from SocialText.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:39:59 2003
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From: "natalie@maynor.net" <natalie@maynor.net>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
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Message: What a great house!!!


I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address:306  St.  George St.
City   :Bay St. Louis, MS  39520

Price :$129,900

Precious shot gun cottage. Hardwood flrs, landscaped, fenced lot. Move
right in real quality. Too many amenities to mention. Must see. Walk to
stores & beach. Gas lantern on welcoming porch. Double fireplace. Stained
glass windows, high ceilings  with fans.  Cypress doors and more

To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/137941

LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors
www.latter-blum.com
800 Common St., Suite 1000
New Orleans, LA
(800) 428-8294

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:44:14 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:42:38 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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http://www.giveboobs.com/

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Message-ID: <20030216204316.GE23153@pobox.com>
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            <006601c2d5c3$836ea240$460332d1@0018079268>
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02003-02-16 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
> > > I don't understand this answer.  People who try to think don't have
> > > ears?
> >
> > Let GO!
>
> You're way behind, Tushy.  We're past that topic now.  I'm into
> house-hunting in Bay St. Louis.

Sorry, my stupid ... How do you pronounce it? Does it have some
weird pronunciation, because a "Saint" in a place name always makes
me highly nervous. Kindly also attach the correct pronunciations
of:

Natchitoches
Portlaoise
Aberystwyth

This is a serious question, I shall not be mocked.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 14:47:15 2003
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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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02003-02-16 | Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM> writes:
> Hmmm.  Wonder how you got that from my comments. Guess I wasn't clear. I
> don't think they are either. But there are a lot of people, especially
> (sadly) amongst the self-assumed intelligentsia who refuse to give credence
> to gut-feeling arguments or commentary. Their weapons are the "show me your
> facts" kind, and they are often quite nasty in deploying them. This can be
> hard if you are (a) thin-skinned or (b) very emotionally invested in the
> topic or (c) a combination of both.

Well, Dr Voigtlander is not nasty. She is just totally boring
in her endless opinionlessness.

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 14:48:37 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Why?
Message-ID: <20030216204837.GG23153@pobox.com>
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02003-02-16 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > > I'm glad we've agreed upon "doing #1" as the right term.
> >
> > Not with the damn SYMBOLS AND NUMERALS!
>
> You're right.  I'll be careful not to say it that way.

Polite people don't say it. They put it on their blog and
post a "permalink".

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In a message dated 2/16/2003 12:47:08 PM, verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<< Yes. This is live-work space, a converted warehouse. The floors are
concrete painted gray, and I have some area rugs.

Janet
 >>

Ah, I see. Never had a floor like that, so I can't suggest a solution. I
would think that concrete would be cold too, but perhaps that's no problem in
California. Anyway,  hopefully someone else has one for you.
Theo

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Treasure hunting
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02003-02-16 | "Espen S. Ore" <Espen.Ore@NB.NO> writes:
> I have been working with my grandmother's diaries for some years now, and
> belive I may be able to publish one or both of them. But I also plan to
> look into my grandfather's notes and already published material to see if
> I can make a possible collection of some of his texts. Yesterday I found
> five more crates of papers etc. in my mother's attic, and indeed I found
> gold - figuratively. I found collections of newspaper clippings, among
> them the letters-from-abroad he wrote for one newspaper in 1932, and where
> I have been hunting microfiulm archives at the library for a week or so,
> and I also found more photos (I already have some) and - and this was
> great - his diary for part of the 1932-trip where I have my grandmother's
> diary. My grandfather financed that visit to Greece partly by his
> correspondance with the newspaper and partly with money from a research
> fund: he was studying modern seasonal migration by shepherds in Greece.
> This diary has some of his research notes. I will also have to work
> through the archives in the funding institution, but that comes later. The
> final treasure I found in one of the crates yesterday was a small
> potsherd, probably from Mycenae, and on the backside it was written LH III
> which I guess is Late Helladic III, and that suits fine with Mycenae where
> my grandfather was involved with the digging in 1922.

YaY!

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:10:57 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Dogs and SSDI and war
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Joanne Jemison wrote:


> Five. I have had him since he was 14 months. He works hard.


        My neighbor works with assistance dogs. The organization uses
my church building for meetings -- they're an excellent
"tenant" as they consider themselves members of the church
community even though only one or two attend services.
They're always on hand to help with fund raisers.  Theresa
has asked me if I'd be a puppy raiser, but my life is too
full right now.  I think I'd like to raise a pup headed for
a teenager so I could bring it into school with me.

        I have two students with severe seizure disorders.  The other
students are excellent about helping me out when one of them
has a seizure.



> And then there is the quiet little bill this administration has been trying
> to sneak through -- appending it, sticking it in with another more popular
> bill -- to no avail so far but they keep trying. It is an ammendment to the
> ADA, which would no longer require businesses to have access aisles or
> handicapped toilets. Nevermind that the bill would be struck down by the
> courts almost immediately, let alone that any number of state laws would
> supercede, Dubya and friends see the disabled as another voiceless bunch
> they can steal from with impunity. They've taken on the wrong bunch on this
> one.


        I saw a few films, etc. about the disability movement when I
was doing my teacher education program.  Didn't appear to be
a group I'd mess around with.



> I often dream, when I am in one of my Quixote phases, just what we could
> with all that bomb and blow up money if we were to spend it on
> life-enhancing things rather than life-ending things. But then, I am moved
> still by MLK's speech and still believe that there is hope.
>


        Yeah, I often wonder how he'll leave no child behind as he
keeps cutting education.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:18:04 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: New phrase
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RICHARD J. SCHEIDT wrote:

> RRC:
>
>>        I dunno, but the St. Louis Post-Discharge had a photo of a
>>Connecticut man saran wrapping his entire house on the front
>>page.
>>
>
> That wasn't <terror threat>, that was CHRISTO!
>


        LOL!  You may be right.  He wasn't as far ahead of his time
as he thought.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:21:09 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Thank you, Dr Maynor

02003-02-16 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > > You're way behind, Tushy.  We're past that topic now.  I'm into
> > > house-hunting in Bay St. Louis.
> >
> > Sorry, my stupid ... How do you pronounce it? Does it have some
> > weird pronunciation, because a "Saint" in a place name always makes
> > me highly nervous.
>
> Nothing odd (to American ears) in its pronunciation: bay as in a bay,
> saint as in a saint, St. Louis as in where Rita lives (or lives near).
>
> Kindly also attach the correct pronunciations
> > of:
> >
> > Natchitoches
>
> n + an aesc sound + k + schwa + dish as in a dish in your kitchen.  Or
> maybe some people use devoice that [d], making it tish as in tish, tish,
> tish.  Iow, nak to rhyme with Mac, then schwa, then dish.
>
> > Portlaoise
> > Aberystwyth
>
> Don't know for sure.
>
> > This is a serious question, I shall not be mocked.
>
> My answer was quite serious.  If I were not being serious, I would make
> up some pronunciations for those last two (the last of which I know I've
> heard pronounced but can't remember for sure exactly how).  Bay St.
> Louis and Nachitoches are no problem for me -- no doubt about them.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 2/16/2003 12:47:54 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<  I can think off
the top of my head of only one current Wordsler like that, though.
 >>

Hopefully that isn't me, because I've met some of those people, and we never
get along for long.
Theo

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:11:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> > You're way behind, Tushy.  We're past that topic now.  I'm into
> > house-hunting in Bay St. Louis.
>
> Sorry, my stupid ... How do you pronounce it? Does it have some
> weird pronunciation, because a "Saint" in a place name always makes
> me highly nervous.

Nothing odd (to American ears) in its pronunciation: bay as in a bay,
saint as in a saint, St. Louis as in where Rita lives (or lives near).

Kindly also attach the correct pronunciations
> of:
>
> Natchitoches

n + an aesc sound + k + schwa + dish as in a dish in your kitchen.  Or
maybe some people use devoice that [d], making it tish as in tish, tish,
tish.  Iow, nak to rhyme with Mac, then schwa, then dish.

> Portlaoise
> Aberystwyth

Don't know for sure.

> This is a serious question, I shall not be mocked.

My answer was quite serious.  If I were not being serious, I would make
up some pronunciations for those last two (the last of which I know I've
heard pronounced but can't remember for sure exactly how).  Bay St.
Louis and Nachitoches are no problem for me -- no doubt about them.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/16/2003 12:47:54 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:
>
> <<  I can think off
> the top of my head of only one current Wordsler like that, though.
>  >>
>
> Hopefully that isn't me, because I've met some of those people, and we never

No, it's not you.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:17:09 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
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        Are you still missing these, Natalie?  I can look a few up.
Most are still around.  Your friend needs to buy a copy of
Poet's Market.

Natalie Maynor wrote:

> A high school acquaintance asked me to help him find submission info for
> the following literary magazines.  I haven't made it through the whole
> list yet but so far am having the same problems he did.  Do any of you
> list creative writers know anything about these publications, like
> whether some of them have died?
>
>
>>"Sequoia" -- Stanford
>>
>
>>"Hawaii Review"...there is a page to entice students
>>to work there and a page that shows the cover, BUT no
>>submission guidelines show????
>>
>>"Crazyhorse"...this is Arkansas and belongs to the
>>University of Arkansas in Little Rock. I've been thru
>>the college pages, but can't find a web page.
>>
>>Nevada..."Interim"....no clue
>>
>>New Hampshire..."Bone & Flesh"...nothing on Google
>>
>>Rhode Island..."Calliope"...nothing
>>
>>West Virginia..."Grab-A-Nickel"..nada
>>
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:18:43 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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Betty wrote:

> At 08:00 PM 2/15/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>
>> 02003-02-15 | "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@FLEX.COM> writes:
>> > On 15 Feb 2003 at 13:45, Theodora Groothof wrote:
>> >
>> > > I don't have the birthday list anymore that I once received, . . .
>> >
>> > Try this as a substitute:
>> >
>> > http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html
>>
>> If there are any corrections, additions etc, please send
>> them to me (for now).
>
>
> Rita was born in 1949? She posts young.


        News to me.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:32:13 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Janet
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As I was cleaning syrup off the diningroom table, I
remembered an episode from this morning.  All eight girls
were seated around the table eating their pancakes, when for
some reason they decided to pass the Mrs. Butterworth bottle
around with each child administering a thorough spanking as
it passed.

I'll have a fruitless theory for this in a few days.

:)


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>         Are you still missing these, Natalie?  I can look a few up.
> Most are still around.  Your friend needs to buy a copy of
> Poet's Market.

The only one I found submission info for was "Interim."  That's what he
was looking for -- online info about submission.  He's been writing some
short stories.  My guess is that they may be pretty good.  He's an
interesting person -- went to Emory in business, then apparently made a
good bit of money in <the business world>, retired at 50 or so, works in
a soup kitchen along with various other volunteer work, is very much
interested in <the arts>, etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 02:34 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, tushar wrote (and very well indeed):

>I speak for the teeming masses and you for a freakazoid Californian
>minority. *I* am turned off by "interpersonal" crap in the wrong place,
>and so is every single one of my personal acquaintances who use the
>web. Guess who will be attracted by more personal stuff at this stage?
>You got it--fifty-six more techie white Californians talking vague
>visionary sociology. Now guess what's the boldest piece of "social
>text" current in America about these 64? Right again--they are not
>a "revolution", they are not even a beginning, of anything. If you
>want to attract real people, give their intelligence some respect.
>Speak a language more universal than a day in the life of my tribe.
>Let's see some hard-ass theory and facts presented with humility.
>Not a "whiteboard" indistinguishable from a hundred other blogs.

Woop! Woop! Woop!---Fact-based Reasoning Alert!---Woop! Woop! Woop!

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> the subtle electro-magnetic field that each of us has. >

> Jo
>

Prove it.

<ha ha ha ha>

I find this very interesting.  I wonder if small
children could perhaps also be able to do this.
I've seen so many examples of their sensitivity
. . . which they later lose or cover up, unfortunately.

            - D. M.

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <BAY2-F174YizeeVdh3O0002d270@hotmail.com>                      
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Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:27:51 -0600
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> > > This falls into the category of
> > > "those who have ears to hear."
> > > It is not a subject for intellectualizing.
> >
> > I don't understand this answer.  People who try to think don't have
> > ears?
> >
> I would not attempt to answer for Doris, but for myself... there are
topics
> about which I can present no rational or fact-based arguments. They
are
> simply things about which I feel deeply, and my arguments and attempts
to
> "recruit" are based solely on emotion or if you will soul-thought.
Those
> people who cling valiantly to fact-based discussions seldom have "ears
to
> hear" on those topics, so I avoid them. I would guess that there is
some of
> that on this list -- prove it to me with hard facts. Not a criticism.
Those
> kind of people are valuable and important. But if I have emotional and
> spiritual investment in the topic, I don't necessarily want to subject
> myself to having to argue it with fact-based reasoners.
>
> Jo

Very good.  Thank you.

           - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 15:40:14 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:36:53 EST
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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<< Try this as a substitute:
>> >
>> > http://www.words-l.org/textarc/bday.html
>> >>

Worked great Thanks
Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 15:40:14 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:28:02 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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Subject: residence purchase plan
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I really want to move to Market Square later this year. My acct. insists I
should buy a residence (the Mkt Sq units cannot be sold because of federal
loan conditions). So why would it not make sense to purchase a condo in
Sequoyah Hills, then rent it for the amount of the mortgage payment plus
upkeep? If I later wanted to live in it, I could. Anyway, I am stashing
cash so I can do this if I want to and find something attractive.

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 15:40:20 2003
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On 16 Feb 2003 at 10:16, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> > "Hawaii Review"...there is a page to entice students
> > to work there and a page that shows the cover, BUT no
> > submission guidelines show????

This is a student-run publication that used to appear once a year. I
don't remember having seen it lately, but it may still be
functioning. Send an e-mail query to Jim Reis (jamesrei@hawaii.edu)
for more information. He'll know whether it's still alive and whom to
contact about submissions.

    mem

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 15:47:11 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:35:14 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Rita Chapman wrote:

>were seated around the table eating their pancakes, when for
>some reason they decided to pass the Mrs. Butterworth bottle
>around with each child administering a thorough spanking as
>it passed.

Whom or what did they spank?

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 15:53:36 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 15:52:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 3:35:14 PM, you wrote:

> On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Rita Chapman wrote:

>>were seated around the table eating their pancakes, when for
>>some reason they decided to pass the Mrs. Butterworth bottle
>>around with each child administering a thorough spanking as
>>it passed.

> Whom or what did they spank?

Mrs. Butterworth

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:03:18 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:01:15 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 8:30 PM -0500 15/2/03, alyce cresap wrote:
>Hi, Carolyn. See my earlier post to Natalie. The city of NY feared there
>would be trouble and would not issue the usual permit for a march and
>demonstration. The rally organizers went to federal court for
>permission. The judge there opined that to allow marching and especially
>near the UN was an invitation to riots or other trouble and therefore
>limited the rally to standing (not marching) and in a certain area only.
>They did allow speeches, and there were plenty of those. Desmond Tutu
>was there and many people of note from politics, show business, labor,
>etc.

In watching the news coverage last night of the various protests from
around the world, the only evidence I saw of any 'police intervention
required' - although it could well have been sparked by 'police
interference' - was in NYC.  So it very much looks like NY officials
got what they expected/provoked.

Carolyn

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:12:08 2003
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At 09:01 AM 2/17/2003 +1100, carolyn wrote:

>In watching the news coverage last night of the various protests from
>around the world, the only evidence I saw of any 'police intervention
>required' - although it could well have been sparked by 'police
>interference' - was in NYC.  So it very much looks like NY officials
>got what they expected/provoked.

One suspects that that was the strategy.  The following is from a post I
received today---from a rowing-referee colleague.

"The police were really using a divide and conquer strategy yesterday. We
finally ended up at 62th and 1st Ave. This was after being sent up 3rd and
then 2nd to 68th so that we could head back down 1st. One of the problems
was that there was no real information about why the police were directing
people. Even the officers on the spot did not seem to know. I think this
frustrated a great number of people and actually created problems. The
arrests that I saw were due to people getting frustrated because for
seemingly no reason the police would impede their progress without any
explanation why. Once on 1st they had basically created pens, barricaded
fenced-in corrals on each block to keep the crowd into smaller groups.
People would get frustrated when police would not let them through even
though the "pen" on the next block closer to the stage was half full. This
is not to say that there were not some people who were out there with the
intent on expressing their view of democracy which involves disrupting
things no matter what it takes. But these people were definitely in the
minority. I do think that because of all of the divisions and the number of
people who never even made it to 1st Ave, the counts of people who were out
to express their concern over the "rush" to war were undercounted at the
half million mark."

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:14:07 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:11:58 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
>
> I really want to move to Market Square later this year. My acct. insists I
> should buy a residence (the Mkt Sq units cannot be sold because of federal
> loan conditions). So why would it not make sense to purchase a condo in
> Sequoyah Hills, then rent it for the amount of the mortgage payment plus
> upkeep? If I later wanted to live in it, I could. Anyway, I am stashing
> cash so I can do this if I want to and find something attractive.

Did you sell AOL?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:14:45 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:12:45 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
> >
> Whom or what did they spank?

The Mrs. Butterworth bottle. Do you know it? It is in the shape of a
woman.

alyce

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Carolyn Baird wrote:
 So it very much looks like NY officials
> got what they expected/provoked.

Yes. It was provoked because they would not let all of the people gather
together, but divided them into sections by closing off one whole street
between them.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:15:57 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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02003-02-16 | "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM> writes:
> At 02:34 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, tushar wrote (and very well indeed):
>
> >I speak for the teeming masses and you for a freakazoid Californian
> >minority. *I* am turned off by "interpersonal" crap in the wrong place,
> >and so is every single one of my personal acquaintances who use the
> >web. Guess who will be attracted by more personal stuff at this stage?
> >You got it--fifty-six more techie white Californians talking vague
> >visionary sociology. Now guess what's the boldest piece of "social
> >text" current in America about these 64? Right again--they are not
> >a "revolution", they are not even a beginning, of anything. If you
> >want to attract real people, give their intelligence some respect.
> >Speak a language more universal than a day in the life of my tribe.
> >Let's see some hard-ass theory and facts presented with humility.
> >Not a "whiteboard" indistinguishable from a hundred other blogs.
>
> Woop! Woop! Woop!---Fact-based Reasoning Alert!---Woop! Woop! Woop!

Dr Voigtlander,

That was my most emotional gut-response in years.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:19:24 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:17:25 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:

> This is a student-run publication that used to appear once a year. I
> don't remember having seen it lately, but it may still be
> functioning. Send an e-mail query to Jim Reis (jamesrei@hawaii.edu)
> for more information. He'll know whether it's still alive and whom to
> contact about submissions.

Thanks.  Its web page does include an e-mail address.  Just not
submission info.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Joanne Jemison wrote:

>  But if I have emotional and
> spiritual investment in the topic, I don't necessarily want to subject
> myself to having to argue it with fact-based reasoners.

    "My mind is made up - don't bother me with facts."

JMW

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:22:32 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
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At 10:27 PM -0500 15/2/03, alyce cresap wrote:
>Right. Everyone knows that all war protesters are lefties and rowdy.

This reminds of my first call to a Vietnam War demonstration while I
was still at the Police Academy.  After listening to the Senior
Constable tell us how 'we were expected to behave' I lodged a
'conscientious objection'.  I realised at the time that this could
have well spelled the end of my 'police career' before it had even
started, but I and the only other trainee policewoman in our class
were saved by a Sergeant who put us on traffic duty diverting
vehicles away from the demonstration.  I get nostalgic for the 'old
days' when I see policewomen on TV in the thick of things.  Many of
them are just as aggressive as the men these days.

>Ergo, keep them under control. I think it is a sin that they didn't
>allow a march and limited the number of official participants. Also, I
>am disgusted with the media that there was not more news coverage of the
>suit.

Isn't 'disgusted with the media' the norm for everyone these days?

Carolyn

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
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At 04:15 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:

>Dr Voigtlander,
>
>That was my most emotional gut-response in years.

You must stop holding these feelings in, my son.

cwv

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:24:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, alyce cresap wrote:

>Did you sell AOL?

No. We voted not to sell. Two of us will do further research before our
next meeting. A nunmber of analysts think the stock has a good chance of
being at $20 within 6 mos.

Bethany

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:25:35 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, alyce cresap wrote:

>> Whom or what did they spank?
>
>The Mrs. Butterworth bottle. Do you know it? It is in the shape of a
>woman.

Yes.

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:39:09 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:37:11 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I can buy a tidal flood map of Hurricane Camille over Bay St. Louis:

http://www.earthimagingcenter.com/hur1.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:47:32 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:46:15 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Question for List CWs or Bored Sleuths
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>        Are you still missing these, Natalie?  I can look a few up.
>>Most are still around.  Your friend needs to buy a copy of
>>Poet's Market.
>>
>
> The only one I found submission info for was "Interim."  That's what he
> was looking for -- online info about submission.  He's been writing some
> short stories.  My guess is that they may be pretty good.  He's an
> interesting person -- went to Emory in business, then apparently made a
> good bit of money in <the business world>, retired at 50 or so, works in
> a soup kitchen along with various other volunteer work, is very much
> interested in <the arts>, etc.


        Ah, well, then he should send an SASE with a request for
submission guidelines.  Or just go with the default... one
story per publication, SASE, brief cover letter.  Writer's
Market may be helpful... his choice of publications vary
widely in quality.  Or buy copies, since he's rich.  Lit
mags are almost always shoestring operations.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:47:33 2003
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From: "natalie@maynor.net" <natalie@maynor.net>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:56:4 -0600
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Message: Too bad this one requires flood insurance.  Otherwise, it's
appealing.


I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address:1308  N. Beach Blvd.
City   :Bay Saint Louis, MS  39520

Price :$1,175,000

Facing the bay of saint louis! Large l shaped lot facing 2 streets, fenced
rear yard. Impeckable quality and detail throughout. True gourmet kitchen
plus service kitchen. Elevator! Outstanding living in and out! High
ceilings! Custom! Custom! Custom! Workshop.

To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/137901

LATTER & BLUM , Inc./Realtors Bay St. Louis
www.latter-blum.com
1188 Highway 90
Bay St. Louis, MS 39520-2451
(800) 215-4111

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:50:54 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:48:55 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
>  A nunmber of analysts think the stock has a good chance of
> being at $20 within 6 mos.

And now it is at $??

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 16:59:31 2003
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>Well, Dr Voigtlander is not nasty. She is just totally boring
>in her endless opinionlessness.     --T Bone

Yup.  That's me a kind, gentle, objective philosopher.   Boring to
some.  Entertaining and enlightening to others.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 17:05:58 2003
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From: "natalie@maynor.net" <natalie@maynor.net>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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Message: Another cute one that says "beachfront" but isn't.


I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address:135  State St.
City   :Bay St. Louis, MS  39520

Price :$155,000

Completely renovated Bay Cottage, first block off beach.  Open floor plan,
high ceiling, ceramic tile throughout & private garden area in the rear of
the sunroom.

To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/133770

LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors
www.latter-blum.com
800 Common St., Suite 1000
New Orleans, LA
(800) 428-8294

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 17:15:48 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Two feet of fluffy snow.
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:12:45 -0500
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We are enjoy a major snow storm. Fluffy and fun. It is also very cold.


alec

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:16:39 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:

>We are enjoy a major snow storm. Fluffy and fun. It is also very cold.

And we are drowning in many inches of rain since Friday.

Bethany

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:54:33 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 7:24 AM -0600 16/2/03, Doris Markland wrote:
>>
>>  Have you seen "Megiddo"?
>>
>>  Carolyn
>
>No.  In fact, if I was aware of it I had
>forgotten.  Should I see it?
>
>                  - D. M.

Probably not!  It wasn't THAT good a movie - the 'biblical' ending
spoilt it for me.  But the first half of it was both interesting and
I thought relevant to either what is happening in the world today or
what could easily happen in any country where too much power is
granted to or usurped by an individual.  What was decidedly different
about that movie, unlike most of the other US movies I've seen, was
that the 'devil' was portrayed as a supposedly 'Christian US citizen'
rather than being of 'middle-eastern', 'asian'  or 'oriental' origin
and the Chinese and other non-Christian groups and countries were
amongst 'the good guys'. But of course they needed the help of a US
hero and God as well to defeat the 'devil'.

Carolyn

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 17:31:31 2003
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Subject: Re: introduction
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>Dr Voigtlander,
>That was my most emotional gut-response in years.

And it was a good one.  I especially liked the "a day in the life of my tribe".


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:56:50 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 11:22 PM -0500 15/2/03, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>That's about the time Brandy died; I hadn't realized it's been that
>long since you've posted here.
>
>Welcome back!

Thanks Evelyn!

Carolyn

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:59:52 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Please review this property
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It's way too big.   What would you do with 3000+ square feet?   The yellow
shotgun house looked the best so far.   Walking distance to the beach is a
good thing.  Plus it sounded like it had lots of nice little charming
touches.



>Message: Too bad this one requires flood insurance.  Otherwise, it's
>appealing.
>
>
>I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Address:1308  N. Beach Blvd.
>City   :Bay Saint Louis, MS  39520
>
>Price :$1,175,000
>
>Facing the bay of saint louis! Large l shaped lot facing 2 streets, fenced
>rear yard. Impeckable quality and detail throughout. True gourmet kitchen
>plus service kitchen. Elevator! Outstanding living in and out! High
>ceilings! Custom! Custom! Custom! Workshop.
>
>To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/137901
>
>LATTER & BLUM , Inc./Realtors Bay St. Louis
>www.latter-blum.com
>1188 Highway 90
>Bay St. Louis, MS 39520-2451
>(800) 215-4111

    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 17:31:30 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:47:17 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Carolyn Baird wrote:
>
> Isn't 'disgusted with the media' the norm for everyone these days?

Cannot speak for everyone, but for me, yes.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 17:31:31 2003
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From: "natalie@maynor.net" <natalie@maynor.net>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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Message: Cute house, but I don't see how they can call it "beachfront" when
it's several blocks from the beach.


I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Address:20  Chapel Hill
City   :Bay St. Louis, MS  39520

Price :$192,500

Beach front living in Old Town Bay St. Louis - open kitchen plan with high
ceilings & crown moulding, lots of storage, balconies.  No maintenance to
worry about.

To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/136600

LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors
www.latter-blum.com
800 Common St., Suite 1000
New Orleans, LA
(800) 428-8294

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 17:31:31 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:04:08 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 10:56 AM -0500 16/2/03, Marie Ascher wrote:
>Bizarre behavior. You are the perennial wallflower?

I guess I am!  Every party has its wallflower so on Words-l I've
assumed that role. :-)

I may have to go back to digest and disappear again soon.  Too many
individual messages coming in all the time tends to interfere with
the work I have to do during the week.  But I usually have some
free-time on Sundays and half-day Mondays to catch up on what's been
happening on words-l.

Carolyn

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 17:31:31 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> It's way too big.   What would you do with 3000+ square feet?   The yellow
> shotgun house looked the best so far.   Walking distance to the beach is a
> good thing.  Plus it sounded like it had lots of nice little charming
> touches.

That 3000+ sq ft one I sent as a joke, noting its $million+ price.  But
yes, I do love the little yellow one.  Re beaches, I should point out
that Mississippi beaches are extremly ugly -- brown, surfless water,
etc.  Yet I do like the smell, the seagulls, etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 17:31:32 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:15:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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>>  A nunmber of analysts think the stock has a good chance of
>> being at $20 within 6 mos.
>
>And now it is at $??

$10 something - about $10.26, as I recall. I bought at $10.95 on Feb. 4.

Bethany

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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> And we are drowning in many inches of rain since Friday.

Yesterday's rain is gone now, but it is cold again.  One thing that is
inspiring me to look at those Bay St. Louis houses is the thought that
it's warmer there.  I'm tired of being cold.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:35:42 -0600
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> Carolyn Baird wrote:
>  So it very much looks like NY officials
> > got what they expected/provoked.
>
> Yes. It was provoked because they would not let all of the people
gather
> together, but divided them into sections by closing off one whole
street
> between them.
>
> alyce

Still, I thought the event was pretty peaceful,
considering the size of the city and the potential.
Newscasters said the protesters in this weeks'
marches were of a different breed than in the
past.  I assume that may mean less "paid
protesters" and, as they said, more working
people (or perhaps non-working people?)

                         - D. M.

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obJamesLileks:Gnatalie:
> Do cigarette brands usually show up in movies?

During my life on the Wicked Stage, whenever a part
called for cigarette smoking, I always used Luckies,
mostly since the pack is easy to see (to those of you
not of a <certain age>, or not smokers, its a simple
white rectangle with a red circle).  Even the cheap
seats could see that ciggies were coming out.

Who makes those things?  They owe me some money for
product placement.

--
Richard                dozens, dozens of stuffed animals

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:32:58 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
>
> We are enjoy a major snow storm. Fluffy and fun. It is also very cold.

Just learned that we are to have 8-12" tonight and tomorrow. I am
supposed to have my CT scan tomorrow. If it snows like that, I won't be
able to get there. I am praying the snow holds off till afternoon. I
don't want to postpone and wait still longer to find out what is going
on. The suspense has me all out of kilter--can't sell books, don't know
what to do with myself.

alyce

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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
> $10 something - about $10.26, as I recall. I bought at $10.95 on Feb. 4.

I am astounded that you bought it at all. I do not think it ever will
see $20. But, good luck.

alyce

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In a message dated 02/16/2003 1:49:01 PM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
That works OK for most parts of the floor, but not in the kitchen. I
suppose what would work best would be to get down there with a scrub
brush and a sponge, but... no.


>>

You might need one of those scrubber-polisher-buffer machines,
or you could get a Hoover Floormate (vacuums and wet scrubs
hard floors), but that's made for tile or wood floors.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
"There are two means of refuge from the miseries of life: music and
cats." -- Albert Schweitzer

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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 17:44:24 -0600
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> Carolyn Baird wrote:
> >
> > Isn't 'disgusted with the media' the norm for everyone these days?
>
> Cannot speak for everyone, but for me, yes.
>
> alyce

For me, yes.  They are unbelievable.  So if they
please neither of us, I don't know what that says.
They go their own way, I guess.

             - D. M.

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Doris Markland wrote:
>I assume that may mean less "paid
> protesters" and, as they said, more working
> people (or perhaps non-working people?)
>
>                          -
Paid protesters? When and who? And paid by whom? I have marched many a
march and rallied in many a rally, but I am unfamiliar with paid
protesters. Please explain.

It seems to be true that many of the participants yesetrday never had
demonstrated anywhere for anything before. But there were plenty of
experienced people too, to be sure.

alyce

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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
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>
> Probably not!  It wasn't THAT good a movie - the 'biblical' ending
> spoilt it for me.  But the first half of it was both interesting and
> I thought relevant to either what is happening in the world today or
> what could easily happen in any country where too much power is
> granted to or usurped by an individual.  What was decidedly different
> about that movie, unlike most of the other US movies I've seen, was
> that the 'devil' was portrayed as a supposedly 'Christian US citizen'
> rather than being of 'middle-eastern', 'asian'  or 'oriental' origin
> and the Chinese and other non-Christian groups and countries were
> amongst 'the good guys'. But of course they needed the help of a US
> hero and God as well to defeat the 'devil'.
>
> Carolyn

Well, I think the tradition indicates that the
anti-Christ would be a supposedly "good guy".
Through the years so many good guys have
been named as such.  <yawn>
But life goes on without the fancy horses.
             - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:49:21 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
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>In a message dated 02/16/2003 1:49:01 PM Central Standard Time,
>verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
>That works OK for most parts of the floor, but not in the kitchen. I
>suppose what would work best would be to get down there with a scrub
>brush and a sponge, but... no.

Heavy-Duty Equipment Hire places have cleaning machines for all
purposes here in Australia.  I'm sure you have those in the US.
Having the right tool to do any job makes life so much easier....even
if it does cost.

Carolyn

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02003-02-16 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
> And it was a good one.  I especially liked the "a day in the life of my
> tribe".

Take your "likes" elsewhere ...

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-16 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
> > Carolyn Baird wrote:
> > >
> > > Isn't 'disgusted with the media' the norm for everyone these days?
> >
> > Cannot speak for everyone, but for me, yes.
> >
> > alyce
>
> For me, yes.  They are unbelievable.  So if they
> please neither of us, I don't know what that says.
> They go their own way, I guess.

I love the media. They are great!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 17:55:04 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Yes. It was provoked because they would not let all of the people gather
> together, but divided them into sections by closing off one whole street
> between them.


    Theres's a book by someone named Payton, I believe, called "Police
Patrols & Procedures", that covers crowd control.  This is SOP.

JMW

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, alyce cresap wrote:

>I am astounded that you bought it at all. I do not think it ever will
>see $20. But, good luck.

It may not. And thanks. It was a risky purchase. I don't think it is a
risky <hold>, though. I buy risky very occasionally - this time, I
happened to have funds available in my ShareBuilder.com account and a
purchase date coming up just as the stock tanked (I buy on the first
Tuesday right now). I bought it partly to balance the much higher club
price - I now examine my portfolio as a whole, occasionally - looking at
all annuities, funds, stocks, and investment club ownership.

I would not have bought the stock under any other circumstance - I
certainly would not have paid a broker's fee to buy it.

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 18:00:06 2003
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Alyce:
>Also, I do not know what faith based people are. I do
>know about faith-based initiatives a la the White House
>plan, but not faith-based people.

Some folks use the collective "people of faith".

This guy's been watching too much TV and wants to
sound cool.

--
Richard                dozens, dozens of stuffed animals

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 18:10:55 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:09:02 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Bitch clothes
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I have formulated the ultimate female ensemble which softly whispers
"I'M A BITCH!!!" We already went over those ridiculous fluttery pants,
right? Add to it a wimpy-colored crepe shirt with NO LINES.

That's it. Walk over to any middle management hive to see it. That's
the bitch suit right there. T Bone has spoken

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:13:12 -0600
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> Doris Markland wrote:
> >I assume that may mean less "paid
> > protesters" and, as they said, more working
> > people (or perhaps non-working people?)
> >
> >                          -
> Paid protesters? When and who? And paid by whom? I have marched many a
> march and rallied in many a rally, but I am unfamiliar with paid
> protesters. Please explain.
>
> It seems to be true that many of the participants yesetrday never had
> demonstrated anywhere for anything before. But there were plenty of
> experienced people too, to be sure.
>
> alyce

Er, you don't think there have ever been
paid protesters?

And I thought I was supposed to be the
gullible one from the stupid midwest.

                 - D. M.

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Message-ID: <009301c2d619$cbd29fe0$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <f05111b02ba747e494cda@[203.14.156.25]>           
            <3E4EE9BB.1699671D@valstar.net> <3E4EFA0F.FFA08FFF@maynor.net>     
            <f05111b0bba74af6ad7e2@[203.14.156.25]>           
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            <003f01c2d615$574b38c0$460332d1@0018079268> 
            <20030216235201.GC23373@pobox.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:16:19 -0600
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> > > >
> > > > Isn't 'disgusted with the media' the norm for everyone these
days?
> > >
> > > Cannot speak for everyone, but for me, yes.
> > >
> > > alyce
> >
> > For me, yes.  They are unbelievable.  So if they
> > please neither of us, I don't know what that says.
> > They go their own way, I guess.
>
> I love the media. They are great!

Well, that's easy for YOU to say.
You are a lover.  Right?

          - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 18:37:48 2003
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From: "Alan Wild" <awild@uri.edu>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <20030217000902.GA25022@pobox.com>
Subject: Re:      Bitch clothes
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:35:54 -0500
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Commentary:

I have found that such types evolve spontaneously once a wedding band is
placed ceremoniously on their right ring-finger, and sometimes in advance of
such!  Of course, I concede that there are other generative engines, but by
far the most common has been mentioned.

'Alan




----- Original Message -----
From: "Tushar Samant" <scribble@POBOX.COM>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 7:09 PM
Subject: Bitch clothes


> I have formulated the ultimate female ensemble which softly whispers
> "I'M A BITCH!!!" We already went over those ridiculous fluttery pants,
> right? Add to it a wimpy-colored crepe shirt with NO LINES.
>
> That's it. Walk over to any middle management hive to see it. That's
> the bitch suit right there. T Bone has spoken

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 18:43:09 2003
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Message-ID: <005301c2d61d$48f4e5c0$09e4da0c@mchsi.com>
From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <BAY2-F174YizeeVdh3O0002d270@hotmail.com>           
            <006601c2d5c3$836ea240$460332d1@0018079268>           
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            <3E500D73.11DEB42D@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] Is this for real?
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:31:41 -0600
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>     "My mind is made up - don't bother me with facts."
>
> JMW

Ow, ouch, ouch, ow, ungh....

No, that is the point. We are talking about issues where "mind" is not
necessarily involved. I'm speaking of things like faith, hope, intuition.
When my mind is involved, I like to believe I am open to rational and
persuasive argument. But there are some things that go so deeply to my gut
that I just cannot put the reasoning into any kind of factual terms.

For example, I cannot deny that I believe in a Supreme Being. But I cannot
prove that S/he exists either. I cannot give you any rational or logical
argument as to why you should believe as I do. Because all of the so-called
rational arguments like the perfect order of the Universe, the intricate
nature of creation, etc. ad nauseam aren't "proofs" for me. I believe in the
miracle of nature and natural evolution. No, this belief of mine in a divine
guardian is gut level intuition. And I avoid most discussions of religion
for just that reason. Because I hate being challenged by logic-based reason
when I have no logic-based response.

Jo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 18:52:42 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> don't want to postpone and wait still longer to find out what is going
> on. The suspense has me all out of kilter--can't sell books, don't know
> what to do with myself.

Uncertainty is the worst.  I think most shrinks would agree with that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 18:56:55 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Doris Markland wrote:

> Newscasters said the protesters in this weeks'
> marches were of a different breed than in the
> past.  I assume that may mean less "paid
> protesters"

What's a "paid protester"?  Who is paying and for what reason?

> and, as they said, more working
> people (or perhaps non-working people?)

I don't get this part either.  I guess in the case of a protest against
cutting off of unemployment pay or some such, one might expect lots of
unemployed participants.  But in a case like this one, what does working
or non-working have to do with it?  (Obviously if it had been on a week
day, fewer people could have participated.  And obviously there are many
people who have to work on a Saturday afternoon and therefore couldn't
participate.  But otherwise I can't see what working people or
non-working people have to do with it.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 19:03:14 2003
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Message-ID: <00002cc06212$00005681$00002761@unsim.im.ns.ac.yu>
To: <yumra@earthlink.net>
Cc: <100130.1004@compuserve.com>, <yuehjyh@ms8.hinet.net>,
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From: "Danny Weber" <rudawaken@unsim.im.ns.ac.yu>
Subject: Wishing This2889
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 16:49:52 -2000
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 19:13:41 2003
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Message-ID: <3E5036C6.E84AD369@valstar.net>
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:11:34 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> Er, you don't think there have ever been
> paid protesters?

I can't think who would pay them. Is there some anti-war group with a
lot of money that would be able to pay people? Usually funds are pretty
scarce even to buy posters and stuff. Do you have any first-hand
knowledge that anti-war protesters are/were not demonstrators of
conscience?

> And I thought I was supposed to be the
? gullible one from the stupid midwest.

Well, of course I am from the midwest myself. But neither in the midwest
nor here in New York, did I ever see or hear of a paid protester in my
protesting/rallying days.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 19:37:41 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Clyde
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:35:04 -0500
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> Haz M. Said is Sandra's friend, inventor of a game named _Werdz_ or
> something.  He was the one who wanted to know if this <service> is a
> thinly-veiled swinging group.

Ah, right.

> Jason Bladt, if I'm not mistaken, also went by the nickname
> Jekke.  He left
> behind his then-current e-life (including words-l) on the day that his
> employers, as he put it, decided that programmers were a fungible asset.

Ah, right.

Thanks, Ken, for the long memory.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 19:49:35 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Clyde
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:47:31 -0500
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> Wasn't Judith Wagner at one of the Snowbashes?  Or was it the time y'all
> went to watch Bonnie erg?  Something like that.  She lived somewhere up
> that way and was something of a regular here for a while.

This has probably been answered by now, but no, that was Judith Kocik. She
moved from Greenfield to another planet, near as I can tell.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 19:51:54 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:07:43 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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alyce cresap wrote:
                    -
> It seems to be true that many of the participants yesetrday never had
> demonstrated anywhere for anything before. But there were plenty of
> experienced people too, to be sure.

I know that in our march/rally there were lots of people who had never
done it before, except maybe a few weeks ago in our earlier rally.  The
organizer said near the end that he thanked everybody for being there
and that he knew it felt odd to many of us -- that it was hard for him
also since he had not ever done anything like this before, that he had
grown up in a quiet, conservative Choctaw County (MS) home, had fought
in Vietnam, and had never been a political activist at all.  But he said
that the current situation was getting to him so much that he couldn't
stand by as a patriotic American and not try to do something about it.

One of the impromptu speakers said that he had been politically tuned
out for much of his life but that he had started waking up after he was
sent to the Gulf War -- that he realized in the middle of it that it was
about oil and that he was disgusted -- and that he had turned into a
political activist upon his return from that war.

Another person was clearly a veteran protester, though.  She said that
she had been protesting for over thirty years and that her Stop Bush
button was actually a leftover from a while back -- that it was about
the earlier Bush, not the current one.

But then some of the people pushing baby carriages in our march said
that it had never occurred to them before to be involved in a protest of
any kind but that they were horrified at what our country is turning
into and that they fear for their children.

Iow, I do think the protests are including a pretty mixed bunch of
people.

Ours, btw, included major cheering for the soldiers.  The point was made
over and over that objecting to war is not in any way insulting to our
troops, who deserve great respect.  Nobody failed to clap and cheer at
those statements.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:12:40 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Doris Markland wrote:

> > Paid protesters? When and who? And paid by whom? I have marched many a
> > march and rallied in many a rally, but I am unfamiliar with paid
> > protesters. Please explain.
...
> > alyce
>
> Er, you don't think there have ever been
> paid protesters?

Why would there be?  Who's paying them and for what reason?  I can
always imagine odd scenarios, and I would not go so far as to claim that
there has never ever been a single person paid to protest.  But I do
have trouble trying to figure out the who/why/etc.  This is one time
that I do feel it appropriate to ask for evidence -- as opposed to just
accepting that it's your gut feeling that there have been paid
protesters.

> And I thought I was supposed to be the
> gullible one from the stupid midwest.

Is the Midwest known to be gullible or stupid?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:13:27 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Subject: A date to remember
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Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey" died peacefully at
age 93 today.
--
alyce

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:17:35 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> And I avoid most discussions of religion
> for just that reason. Because I hate being challenged by logic-based reason
> when I have no logic-based response.

I have had very few, if any, religious discussions in my life that
involved somebody's asking for logical reasons.  Most of the atheists
I've known have been respectful in that <respect>.  Maybe I've been
lucky.  I enjoy religious discussions, but the ones I'm normally
involved in aren't about producing logic-based responses or proofs.
They're about things like what the differences are between Christianity
and Islam or why certain religions have particular rules or whatever.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Two feet of fluffy snow.
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:28:40 -0600
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>We are enjoy a major snow storm. Fluffy and fun. It is also very cold.


>And we are drowning in many inches of rain since Friday.


>Bethany

Encrusted in bitchin' ice here. Ugly and disgusting. Most schools in this
part of the state have already called off for tomorrow.

AS

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:31:44 +1100
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Carolyn Baird <cas@boronia.apana.org.au>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 8:11 PM -0500 16/2/03, alyce cresap wrote:
>Well, of course I am from the midwest myself. But neither in the midwest
>nor here in New York, did I ever see or hear of a paid protester in my
>protesting/rallying days.

Some participants in past protests were undoubtedly 'paid' not to
'protest' but rather to stir the crowd on to violence to detract from
the legitimacy of their protest.  When violence occurs during a
protest the meaning of the protest is lost.  The police are often
manipulated to this end...especially in instances of work-place
disputes.  Referring to 'paid protesters' is also often used by the
opposing side as a means of turning public opinion against the
protesters.  Whereas 'paid supporters' are commonplace amongst
audiences at political gatherings.  Their role is to manipulate the
audience's reactions and stir up support for the speaker.  More than
likely the same individuals are often involved in both.

Carolyn

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 19:51:55 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:41:38 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: A date to remember
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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You forgot the rest of it:

http://blogs.salon.com/0001823/


alyce cresap wrote:

> Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey" died peacefully at
> age 93 today.
> --
> alyce
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 19:52:30 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:50:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Carolyn Baird wrote:

> Some participants in past protests were undoubtedly 'paid' not to
> 'protest' but rather to stir the crowd on to violence to detract from
> the legitimacy of their protest.  When violence occurs during a
> protest the meaning of the protest is lost.

I'm glad you're back, Carolyn Wombat.  What you say here is something
I'd never thought about before, but I do see how it could happen.
Dubya's robots like my RRSIL, e.g., might pay somebody to pretend to be
an anti-war demonstrator but to do violent acts and make the peaceful
protest look bad.  Interesting.  And pretty easy to believe really.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:51:47 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Carolyn Baird wrote:
> Whereas 'paid supporters' are commonplace amongst
> audiences at political gatherings.

Oh, political rallies or labor protests--agreed. But I thought Doris was
referring to anti-war/peace demonstrators, and I believe these are
people of conscience. (Note--I don't count anti-war rallies as
"political." I think of political as in election campaigns.)

I still want to hear from Doris, though, about the paid protesters to
whom she is referring, specifically.

alyce

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-16 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
> > > > >
> > > > > Isn't 'disgusted with the media' the norm for everyone these days?
> > > >
> > > > Cannot speak for everyone, but for me, yes.
> > > >
> > > > alyce
> > >
> > > For me, yes.  They are unbelievable.  So if they
> > > please neither of us, I don't know what that says.
> > > They go their own way, I guess.
> >
> > I love the media. They are great!
>
> Well, that's easy for YOU to say.
> You are a lover.  Right?

In my heart, yes, occasionally.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:03:42 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:02:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Asparagus fritatta, tomatoes with creamy feta salad dressing,
glass of white wine...

Not eaten over the sink.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:04:45 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:02:46 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Asparagus fritatta, tomatoes with creamy feta salad dressing,
> glass of white wine...
>
> Not eaten over the sink.

Whatever turns you on...

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:09:49 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030217020949.GC6005@pobox.com>
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02003-02-16 | Alan Wild <awild@URI.EDU> writes:
> Commentary:
>
> I have found that such types evolve spontaneously once a wedding band is
> placed ceremoniously on their right ring-finger, and sometimes in advance of
> such!  Of course, I concede that there are other generative engines, but by
> far the most common has been mentioned.
>
> 'Alan

Thanks for the valuable update! Any other pieces of jewelry you
can associate with this variety of generative engine?


> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Tushar Samant" <scribble@POBOX.COM>
> To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 7:09 PM
> Subject: Bitch clothes
>
>
> > I have formulated the ultimate female ensemble which softly whispers
> > "I'M A BITCH!!!" We already went over those ridiculous fluttery pants,
> > right? Add to it a wimpy-colored crepe shirt with NO LINES.
> >
> > That's it. Walk over to any middle management hive to see it. That's
> > the bitch suit right there. T Bone has spoken

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I've been meaning to ask why nobody has mentioned Byrd's senate speech
from last week.  Although I am anti-Byrd in some ways, I do think his
speech last week was right on the mark.

Have you blogged it, Pete?

http://byrd.senate.gov/byrd_newsroom/byrd_news_feb/news_2003_february/news_2003_february_9.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:28:00 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:25:56 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> I've been meaning to ask why nobody has mentioned Byrd's senate speech
> from last week.  Although I am anti-Byrd in some ways, I do think his
> speech last week was right on the mark.

I didn't mention it because I really do try not to post too much
political stuff. I don't always succeed, but I try. If you set me loose,
you will be inundated, so mostly I am putting it all onto the
bibliomaniacs' list to spare y'all.

alce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:33:49 2003
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>And I avoid most discussions of religion
>for just that reason. Because I hate being challenged by logic-based reason
>when I have no logic-based response.       --Jo

But there is a logic-based response.   One ought never try to prove the
existence of God.   If you could prove it, then it wouldn't be faith.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:37:29 2003
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>Is the Midwest known to be gullible or stupid?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Unsophisticated is the usual term.   All the sophistication is on the
coasts of this country.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:38:46 2003
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>Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey" died peacefully at
>age 93 today.       --alyce

I thought that was just a joke with the punch line being "The trouble
started when his relatives put his right leg in the coffin and shook it all
about."


    --bonniev

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>Some participants in past protests were undoubtedly 'paid' not to
>'protest' but rather to stir the crowd on to violence to detract from
>the legitimacy of their protest.  --Carolyn

Yes, I've heard of paid agitators at union or strike meetings.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:42:02 2003
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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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> > He was the one who wanted to know if this <service> is a
> > thinly-veiled swinging group.
>
>Ah, right.
>--Adam

Is that what you guys did at SnowBash after we older folk left?  And here I
thought you just listened to music.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:43:20 2003
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>This has probably been answered by now, but no, that was Judith Kocik. She
>moved from Greenfield to another planet, near as I can tell.
>--Adam     adamh1@attbi.com

Near as I could tell, she was living on another planet all along.


    --bonniev

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> > Well, that's easy for YOU to say.
> > You are a lover.  Right?
>
>In my heart, yes, occasionally.

This reminds me for some reason of the Iraqi spokesman who was asked if
Iraq would attack Israel if the US attacks Iraq.   He gave the "right"
answer:   "We do not have the means to attack Israel."


    --bonniev

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Yum!
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At 08:02 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>Asparagus fritatta, tomatoes with creamy feta salad dressing,
>glass of white wine...
>
>Not eaten over the sink.

Well. I certainly hope not.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:45:58 2003
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 06:13 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, d.m. wrote:
>Er, you don't think there have ever been
>paid protesters?

So what?  This is typical of the Bush establishment rhetoric, i.e., at some
point in time there were paid protesters, so therefore there must have been
paid protesters this time and therefore the protest is without
credibility.  Nonsense.  I will tell you without reservation that the post
I copied today was the reaction of a person who is above reproach.  He is
an intelligent, sensitive, highly compassionate man--educated here as well
as overseas.  He marched in New York because of his personal views.

So lets's cease the Limbaugh crap.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:47:38 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 20:46:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 8:35:56 PM, you wrote:

> At 08:02 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>Asparagus fritatta, tomatoes with creamy feta salad dressing,
>>glass of white wine...
>>
>>Not eaten over the sink.

> Well. I certainly hope not.

:) No.

Leftovers for breakfast tomorrow.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:50:23 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:48:09 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
> Yes, I've heard of paid agitators at union or strike meetings.

Of course, but surely those are not who Doris is speaking of.

alyce

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
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>
> What's a "paid protester"?  Who is paying and for what reason?

If someone wanted there to be a large crowd
of protesters they could offer money to
people to go and participate, to swell the
ranks.    Why?  Why indeed?  >

> > and, as they said, more working
> > people (or perhaps non-working people?)
>
> I don't get this part either.  I guess in the case of a protest
against
> cutting off of unemployment pay or some such, one might expect lots of
> unemployed participants.  But in a case like this one, what does
working
> or non-working have to do with it?  (Obviously if it had been on a
week
> day, fewer people could have participated.  And obviously there are
many
> people who have to work on a Saturday afternoon and therefore couldn't
> participate.  But otherwise I can't see what working people or
> non-working people have to do with it.)

Let's say that in the past there have sometimes
been a lot of marchers- for- causes who were students,
unemployed, drifters, professional whiners, etc.,
whereas <they said> this week there may have
been larger numbers of just ordinary working people.
I threw in the <non-working> classification to
cover those who may have been protesting
because they were out of a job.
Made sense to me.

Compare this weeks marches with some in the
past in which there was violence, for instance,
and it seemed that the participants were there
because they relished mayhem and in-your-face
rebellion, even though you sometimes wondered
if they had any idea what they were rebelling about.

                  - D. M.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:55:30 2003
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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
>  He is
> an intelligent, sensitive, highly compassionate man--educated here as well
> as overseas.
     ^^^^^^^^
Aha.  There goes his credibility.  Tainted by furrin views, he is.
Probably was being paid by Saddam for participating in the rally.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 20:58:53 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:57:46 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
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>I speak for the teeming masses and you for a freakazoid Californian
>minority. *I* am turned off by "interpersonal" crap in the wrong place,
>and so is every single one of my personal acquaintances who use the
>web.

Might it be that you're dealing with a slightly skewed sample? Naaah...

>Guess who will be attracted by more personal stuff at this stage?
>You got it--fifty-six more techie white Californians talking vague
>visionary sociology.

Um... that may very well be the target audience, particularly if
they're opinion-leaders (which they probably are).

>If you
>want to attract real people, give their intelligence some respect.
>Speak a language more universal than a day in the life of my tribe.
>Let's see some hard-ass theory and facts presented with humility.
>Not a "whiteboard" indistinguishable from a hundred other blogs.

Well, we agree on that -- the trick is how to make it
distinguishable. Technobabble won't.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 18:58:49 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: housekeeping IMFTATL
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>In a message dated 2/16/2003 12:47:08 PM, verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
><< Yes. This is live-work space, a converted warehouse. The floors are
>concrete painted gray, and I have some area rugs.



>Ah, I see. Never had a floor like that, so I can't suggest a solution. I
>would think that concrete would be cold too, but perhaps that's no problem in
>California. Anyway,  hopefully someone else has one for you.

It is cold. I wear slippers. The pets lie on the area rugs or on their beds.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:00:41 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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>As I was cleaning syrup off the diningroom table, I
>remembered an episode from this morning.  All eight girls
>were seated around the table eating their pancakes, when for
>some reason they decided to pass the Mrs. Butterworth bottle
>around with each child administering a thorough spanking as
>it passed.
>
>I'll have a fruitless theory for this in a few days.

Here you go: all kids are sadomasochists; some grow out of it for
reasons unknown.

Ever hear a group of kids debating the question of what would be the
coolest torture? Or playing "betcha can't tie me up so I can't get
away"?

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 21:02:52 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:02:15 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: housekeeping IMFTATL
In-reply-to: <200302161534.18Kyj57eo3NZFlr0@killdeer>
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>You might need one of those scrubber-polisher-buffer machines,
>or you could get a Hoover Floormate (vacuums and wet scrubs
>hard floors), but that's made for tile or wood floors.

Hmm. If it works on tile it would probably work on concrete. Any idea
what they cost?

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 21:02:54 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Happy Birthday, Clyde
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:00:51 -0500
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> Is that what you guys did at SnowBash after we older folk left?
> And here I
> thought you just listened to music.

Wouldn't you like to know.

IIRC, we did listen to music, watched some of the video footage from earlier
in the night, and cleaned up a bit.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 21:05:25 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:03:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: report from NYC
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 8:54:14 PM, you wrote:
> Compare this weeks marches with some in the
> past in which there was violence, for instance,
> and it seemed that the participants were there
> because they relished mayhem and in-your-face
> rebellion, even though you sometimes wondered
> if they had any idea what they were rebelling about.

Is that what you think happened in Chicago in '68?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 21:05:33 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:03:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Doris Markland wrote:

> > What's a "paid protester"?  Who is paying and for what reason?
>
> If someone wanted there to be a large crowd
> of protesters they could offer money to
> people to go and participate, to swell the
> ranks.    Why?  Why indeed?

Well, sure.  In this case, who would be paying?

> Let's say that in the past there have sometimes
> been a lot of marchers- for- causes who were students,
> unemployed, drifters, professional whiners, etc.,

Why are we let's saying?  I really do think you need some evidence
here.  I can understand why students would get involved -- at least
those who are doing what one should do as a student -- thinking and
becoming involved in the working of the country.  But I'm wondering why
unemployed or drifters.  I tend to think of them as less likely rather
than more likely to be involved.  I'm not sure about professional
whiners.  I tend to think of whiners as people who don't bother to get
involved -- who just whine to people around them.  Iow, I tend to think
of whiners as lazy.  Just a gut feeling, mind you.

> I threw in the <non-working> classification to
> cover those who may have been protesting
> because they were out of a job.
> Made sense to me.

Do you mean they think that a war will interfere with their chances of
getting jobs?  That may be true.  I didn't meet any unemployed at our
small protest yesterday.  But then we have an extremely low unemployment
rate.

> Compare this weeks marches with some in the
> past in which there was violence, for instance,
> and it seemed that the participants were there
> because they relished mayhem and in-your-face
> rebellion, even though you sometimes wondered
> if they had any idea what they were rebelling about.

The paid protesters hired to disrupt the peaceful marches?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 21:05:50 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:03:53 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
In-reply-to: <200302161609.18KyQf6GT3NZFl40@penguin>
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>I have formulated the ultimate female ensemble which softly whispers
>"I'M A BITCH!!!" We already went over those ridiculous fluttery pants,
>right? Add to it a wimpy-colored crepe shirt with NO LINES.

I am supposed to be going to a tantra event next weekend with Dossie.
Apparently the normal female uniform at such undertakings is long,
brightly colored, diaphanous and easily removed. Which breaks Hardy's
First Law of Clothing: Thou shalt not wear that which makes me feel
like a jerk. I bought a pair of men's red silk boxers at a V-day
sale, and they're gonna get me in those and a tank top and like it.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 21:08:35 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:06:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:03:53 PM, you wrote:
> Which breaks Hardy's First Law of Clothing: Thou shalt not wear
> that which makes me feel like a jerk.

No one can wear anything that makes you feel like a jerk?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 21:09:45 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:11:36 -0600
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> >Is the Midwest known to be gullible or stupid?
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> Unsophisticated is the usual term.   All the sophistication is on the
> coasts of this country.
>
>
>     --bonniev

Please show proof of that, Bonnie.

            - D. M.

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:16:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:
> me highly nervous. Kindly also attach the correct pronunciations
> of:
>
> Natchitoches
> Portlaoise
> Aberystwyth

I can do the third one, I've been there.

ahberIStwith.  Only the I is kind of a dirty short i if you know what I
mean.  Lower than our 'is'.  And I THINK I remember that the e might me
more like eh than er.

I saw a beautiful forest/woods floor of bluebells in Aberystwyth.

I lived that summer in Pen y Groes.  That is pronounced 'pennygrOYss.'

I think that might have been maybe 1978 or so.

I have just written four sentences in a row starting with "I."

Ann

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:18:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:

>
> Sorry, my stupid ...

I read this first as an appellation, or is that called an epithet, or
what.

Ann

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Message-ID: <007601c2d634$23966ee0$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:24:53 -0600
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> At 06:13 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, d.m. wrote:
> >Er, you don't think there have ever been
> >paid protesters?
>
> So what?  This is typical of the Bush establishment rhetoric, i.e., at
some
> point in time there were paid protesters, so therefore there must have
been
> paid protesters this time and therefore the protest is without
> credibility.  Nonsense.  I will tell you without reservation that the
post
> I copied today was the reaction of a person who is above reproach.  He
is
> an intelligent, sensitive, highly compassionate man--educated here as
well
> as overseas.  He marched in New York because of his personal views.
>
> So lets's cease the Limbaugh crap.
>
> cwv

Ease off, eastern sophistocate.  Go back
and read that I said:

"Still, I thought the event was pretty peaceful,
considering the size of the city and the potential.
Newscasters said the protesters in this weeks'
marches were of a different breed than in the
past.  I assume that may mean less "paid
protesters" and, as they said, more working
people (or perhaps non-working people?)"

Although that is a complicated sentence
that I had to explain to Natalie, I thought it
said that the march was not composed of
idle people who were just there for something
to do.

Jeesh.  Try to say something nice and that's
what I get.

Believe me, there is little Bush rhetoric in
the news broadcasts . . although I heard
a newscaster yesterday refer to "the Bush
rhetoric on Iraq" and thought that rather
odd.

                   - D. M.

                  - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 21:34:43 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
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> Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> > Er, you don't think there have ever been
> > paid protesters?
>
> I can't think who would pay them. Is there some anti-war group with a
> lot of money that would be able to pay people? Usually funds are
pretty
> scarce even to buy posters and stuff. Do you have any first-hand
> knowledge that anti-war protesters are/were not demonstrators of
> conscience?
>
> > And I thought I was supposed to be the
> ? gullible one from the stupid midwest.
>
> Well, of course I am from the midwest myself. But neither in the
midwest
> nor here in New York, did I ever see or hear of a paid protester in my
> protesting/rallying days.
>
> alyce
>
I think Carolyn gave a good answer

 "Some participants in past protests were undoubtedly
 'paid' not to 'protest' but rather to stir the crowd on
 to violence to detract from etc etc."

I think of rallies and marches from the past like the
ones <staged> to protest world trade.  Was one
in Seattle?  What a mess.  And news reports at
that time did mention paid participants.

               - D. M.

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
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Nat, I'm tired of this topic and not going to
respond to a simple idea torn into a dozen
pieces of conjecture.

Please accept I tried to say something nice,
something positive about the march or
rally or whatever it was.  I said I heard a
report that said it was different from some
in the past . . composed of more ordinary
working people . . and now I will add that
they said they thought many of these had
never participated in such a thing before.
And that by this I assumed there were NOT
paid participants, and I used the word
'assumed' and since I considered it a
positive statement did not consider that
I must provide negative proof.

Suddenly wordslers have brought in
republicans and democrats and Bush
rhetoric and other elements that were
not part of my observation or my thoughts
at all.

Phooey.

                          - D. M.

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:25:01 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Ann Borkin wrote:

> I lived that summer in Pen y Groes.  That is pronounced 'pennygrOYss.'

Why were you living that summer in Pen y Groes?  I spent a week on the
campus of U of W at Bangor but didn't go to the U of W Aberystwyth
campus.  My only other time in Wales was a quick visit to Cardiff from
London.

> I have just written four sentences in a row starting with "I."

You bumptious thing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Is that what you think happened in Chicago in '68?

I was in Chicago in '68. My office was right there on Michigan Avenue.
If the police had stayed cool, there would have been no problem, or
certainly not anything like what happened.

alyce

alyce

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Doris Markland wrote:

> Believe me, there is little Bush rhetoric in
> the news broadcasts . .

Hmm.  I should perhaps turn on the electric teevee.  I've had it on in
the past week or so only for watching "Survivor" Thursday night and an
MSU basketball game last night.   Are you saying that the rah-rah Bush
of the last time I watched teevee news has died down some?

> although I heard
> a newscaster yesterday refer to "the Bush
> rhetoric on Iraq" and thought that rather
> odd.

Why odd?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:34:00 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> Although that is a complicated sentence
> that I had to explain to Natalie, I thought it
> said that the march was not composed of
> idle people who were just there for something
> to do.

Oh, sheesh. Protesting/marching is not for idle people, for heaven's
sake. It is often tiring, hard work, and even dangerous. Do you really
think that people protest for lack of something better to do? This is
incredible. It takes dedication. Layabouts lay about, they don't march.
Doris, you should go to a rally some time and talk to the people.

alyce

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Message-ID: <008f01c2d636$4797bd60$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:40:09 -0600
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> bonniev wrote:
> > Yes, I've heard of paid agitators at union or strike meetings.
>
> Of course, but surely those are not who Doris is speaking of.
>
> alyce

Probably part of my memories of large
group events with an agenda.  They all go
together in my mind, since I don't keep an
index of who demonstrated for or against
what or when.

                 - D. M.

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> If someone wanted there to be a large crowd
> of protesters they could offer money to
> people to go and participate, to swell the
> ranks.    Why?  Why indeed?  >

The question remains, who would have the bankroll to do this? What
organization? What individual? Surely the organizers of the peace
rallies are strapped for cash and what they get from donors such as me
goes for advertising, phones, signs, microphones, permits, etc. Hardly a
penny left to pay people to come. Sorry, Doris, it does not wash.

> Let's say that in the past there have sometimes
> been a lot of marchers- for- causes who were students,
> unemployed, drifters, professional whiners, etc.

I guess you have a pretty low opinion of marchers for
causes--"unemployed, drifters, whiners, etc." Would it surprise you to
know that many marchers before and now are none of the above, but
actually employed or retired people contributing to society, paying
their taxes? That there are more of these this time than in the past is
a great thing. Please don't assume that protests are "fixed" or paid
for, just because there are a few million people who don't agree with
you. (N.B. Again, I am excluding union activities and elections in this
discussion.)

alyce

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:38:46 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Doris Markland wrote:

> > Well, of course I am from the midwest myself. But neither in the
> midwest
> > nor here in New York, did I ever see or hear of a paid protester in my
> > protesting/rallying days.
> >
> > alyce
> >
> I think Carolyn gave a good answer
>
>  "Some participants in past protests were undoubtedly
>  'paid' not to 'protest' but rather to stir the crowd on
>  to violence to detract from etc etc."

Isn't this the opposite of what you said a little while ago in answer to
my question about paid protesters?  I thought you said that they were
paid to swell the ranks -- to make it look like more people on that side
of an issue.  But now you're saying that they're paid by the other side
to derail the protest.  I'm confused.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:43:28 -0600
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> Sunday, February 16, 2003, 8:54:14 PM, you wrote:
> > Compare this weeks marches with some in the
> > past in which there was violence, for instance,
> > and it seemed that the participants were there
> > because they relished mayhem and in-your-face
> > rebellion, even though you sometimes wondered
> > if they had any idea what they were rebelling about.
>
> Is that what you think happened in Chicago in '68?
>
> Karen,
> Not a practical-minded weasel

I don't remember that.

       - D. M.

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 19:43:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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On Sun, 16 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Why were you living that summer in Pen y Groes?  I spent a week on the

It was a cheap place to have a long summer vacation.  Really cheap, I
forget how cheap but cheap and beautiful.

Ann

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alyce cresap wrote:

> > idle people who were just there for something
> > to do.
>
> Oh, sheesh. Protesting/marching is not for idle people, for heaven's
> sake. It is often tiring, hard work, and even dangerous. Do you really
> think that people protest for lack of something better to do? This is
> incredible. It takes dedication. Layabouts lay about, they don't march.
> Doris, you should go to a rally some time and talk to the people.

Thank you, Alyce.  I started to respond to that part but was too
appalled to find the words.  I cannot conceive of somebody going to the
effort of getting involved in such things out of boredom.  It is people
who care about their country and about issues who get involved.  Lazy,
idle people sit around lazily and idly.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:47:20 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> I think of rallies and marches from the past like the
> ones <staged> to protest world trade.  Was one
> in Seattle?  What a mess.  And news reports at
> that time did mention paid participants.

Now we have moved to WTO marches. I thought we were just talking peace.
What do you mean by <staged>? Did the news reports mention who was
paying the people? I know a couple of people who live in Seattle who
went. They were non-violent, went of their own volition and at their own
expense, and were not paid anything by anyone.

alyce

alyce

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:50:56 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:31:13 PM, you wrote:
> Hmm.  I should perhaps turn on the electric teevee.  I've had it on in
> the past week or so only for watching "Survivor" Thursday night and an
> MSU basketball game last night.   Are you saying that the rah-rah Bush
> of the last time I watched teevee news has died down some?

I thought he made speeches almost every day last week.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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In a message dated 02/16/2003 9:01:20 PM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
Hmm. If it works on tile it would probably work on concrete. Any idea
what they cost?

>>

Hoover Floormate?  The price is usually $179.99 no matter where you
go.  Scrubbers?  Usually around $150 - 200.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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In a message dated 02/16/2003 8:59:41 PM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
Here you go: all kids are sadomasochists; some grow out of it for
reasons unknown.

>>

Henry, my nephew, used to design massive weapons when he was
a kid; now he designs parts for Honda, making more money than I'll
ever have.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:56:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:54:21 PM, you wrote:
> I said I heard a
> report that said it was different from some
> in the past . . composed of more ordinary
> working people . . and now I will add that
> they said they thought many of these had
> never participated in such a thing before.
> And that by this I assumed there were NOT
> paid participants,

This is so wacko, Doris!!!! Whyever would the idea of paid
participants at a peach march ever cross your mind?

> Phooey.

Indeed.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:57:37 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> they said they thought many of these had
> never participated in such a thing before.
> And that by this I assumed there were NOT
> paid participants, and I used the word
> 'assumed' and since I considered it a
> positive statement did not consider that
> I must provide negative proof.
>
> Suddenly wordslers have brought in
> republicans and democrats and Bush
> rhetoric and other elements that were
> not part of my observation or my thoughts
> at all.

All I'm confused about is who you think has paid participants in past
events:

Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> If someone wanted there to be a large crowd
> of protesters they could offer money to
> people to go and participate, to swell the
> ranks.

And you said this:

Doris Markland wrote:

> I think Carolyn gave a good answer
>
>  "Some participants in past protests were undoubtedly
>  'paid' not to 'protest' but rather to stir the crowd on
>  to violence to detract from etc etc."
                               [the point of the protest]

Your first statement makes it sound as if you think the people staging
the protest are paying others to join them.  Your second makes it sound
as if you think the opponents of the protest are paying people to
disrupt it.  Is it both?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:30:02 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> Please show proof of that, Bonnie.

She can do that as soon as you come up with one paid protester.

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Hmm.  I should perhaps turn on the electric teevee.  I've had it on in
> > the past week or so only for watching "Survivor" Thursday night and an
> > MSU basketball game last night.   Are you saying that the rah-rah Bush
> > of the last time I watched teevee news has died down some?
>
> I thought he made speeches almost every day last week.

He who?  We were talking about tv broadcasters, weren't we?  I know what
Dubya has said because I've read what he's said.  I thought the topic
here was the tone of the tv people -- it had seemed very rah-rah Bush to
me.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Message-ID: <00e101c2d63a$0d6eaf00$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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            <3E505828.2613903D@valstar.net>  <3E505B47.75CD664E@maynor.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:04:24 -0600
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> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > > idle people who were just there for something
> > > to do.
> >
> > Oh, sheesh. Protesting/marching is not for idle people, for heaven's
> > sake. It is often tiring, hard work, and even dangerous. Do you
really
> > think that people protest for lack of something better to do? This
is
> > incredible. It takes dedication. Layabouts lay about, they don't
march.
> > Doris, you should go to a rally some time and talk to the people.
>
> Thank you, Alyce.  I started to respond to that part but was too
> appalled to find the words.  I cannot conceive of somebody going to
the
> effort of getting involved in such things out of boredom.  It is
people
> who care about their country and about issues who get involved.  Lazy,
> idle people sit around lazily and idly.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

ONE MORE TIME:

These are the things I was saying the recent
rally was NOT.

              - D. M.

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:03:29 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Karen Kay wrote:

> This is so wacko, Doris!!!! Whyever would the idea of paid
> participants at a peach march ever cross your mind?

The apple growers were paying them to disrupt the peach march.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 22:07:45 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:05:47 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Doris Markland wrote:

> > Thank you, Alyce.  I started to respond to that part but was too
> > appalled to find the words.  I cannot conceive of somebody going to
> the
> > effort of getting involved in such things out of boredom.  It is
> people
> > who care about their country and about issues who get involved.  Lazy,
> > idle people sit around lazily and idly.

> ONE MORE TIME:
>
> These are the things I was saying the recent
> rally was NOT.

??  We *know* that.  You have made that clear.  But you seem to be
saying it about past marches/rallies.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 22:10:56 2003
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Message-ID: <00e701c2d63a$d4cf5540$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <f05111b02ba747e494cda@[203.14.156.25]>           
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:12:47 -0600
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> Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> > I think of rallies and marches from the past like the
> > ones <staged> to protest world trade.  Was one
> > in Seattle?  What a mess.  And news reports at
> > that time did mention paid participants.
>
> Now we have moved to WTO marches. I thought we were just talking
peace.
> What do you mean by <staged>? Did the news reports mention who was
> paying the people? I know a couple of people who live in Seattle who
> went. They were non-violent, went of their own volition and at their
own
> expense, and were not paid anything by anyone.
>
> alyce

No, I was not talking about peace marches,
but about marches and rallies and protests
etc. in general.  And the newscaster I mentioned
was also, I thought, drawing a comparison with
marches in general in the past.

No, I don't know who or if anyone paid participants
in WTO protests.  The violence raised the question.

Who would have paid or how I have no idea.

Why don't I just say "There have never been any
paid participants in any rally, march, or public
gathering for a cause" and then I can go to bed.

I really don't care.  Rallies and marches are not
my cup of tea.

                          - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 22:14:23 2003
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Message-ID: <00ee01c2d63b$509742a0$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:16:15 -0600
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> Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:31:13 PM, you wrote:
> > Hmm.  I should perhaps turn on the electric teevee.  I've had it on
in
> > the past week or so only for watching "Survivor" Thursday night and
an
> > MSU basketball game last night.   Are you saying that the rah-rah
Bush
> > of the last time I watched teevee news has died down some?
>
> I thought he made speeches almost every day last week.
>
> Karen,

I thought we were talking about news slant.
I don't hear newscasters saying rah rah Bush.
I did hear the one, as I mentioned, refer in a
rather weird way to "the Bush rhetoric".

                       - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 22:17:28 2003
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Message-ID: <00f501c2d63b$ba8fdc80$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <f05111b02ba747e494cda@[203.14.156.25]>           
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:19:13 -0600
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>
> Your first statement makes it sound as if you think the people staging
> the protest are paying others to join them.  Your second makes it
sound
> as if you think the opponents of the protest are paying people to
> disrupt it.  Is it both?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Neither.

        - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 22:18:04 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Feels like 1996...
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 04:16:00 +0000
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Sure feels like the "Blizzard of the Century" all over again. Difference
is it's been sustained over a longer period this time. I looked but can't
find snow accumulations for this area. Looks like 18" with another 10"
expected tomorrow. The wind's really picked up and it looks nasty
outside. I'm not looking forward to digging out.

Tomorrow is a working day for us but I guess we get to
celebrate whatver Yankee holday it is.

-rashmi



_________________________________________________________________
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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
To: "words" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: a little lite humor
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:20:21 -0600
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I promise I don't ordinarily forward jokes, and this will not become a
habit. But it somehow seemed appropos, given the lines of discussion here
visavis NYC, etc.


Three Texas surgeons were arguing as to which had the
greatest skill.

The first began: "Three years ago, I reattached seven
fingers on a pianist. He went on to give a recital for
the Queen of England..."

The second replied: "That's nothing. I attended a man
in a car accident. All his arms and legs were severed
from his body. Two years after I reattached them, he won
three gold medals for field events in the Olympics."

The third said: "A few years back, I attended to a
cowboy. He was high on cocaine and alcohol when he rode
his horse head-on into a Santa Fe freight train traveling
at 100 miles per hour. All I had to work with was the horse's
ass and a ten gallon hat. Last year he became president of
the United States.

Jo

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 04:22:03 +0000
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Janet:

>For reasons I don't really understand -- on
>bad days they make me paranoid and on good ones simply despairing --
>everything in the culture and media seems to be teaming up to make
>people feel that they are in constant and unrelenting danger. As a
>result, we are beset with stress, depression and rage -- which are
>all entirely appropriate reactions to feeling endangered.

My response is to completely ignore the teevee hype-of-the
week story whatever it might be. I refuse to follow the
story no matter how compelling. It's sad but I can't do
anything about it and I don't really care who's missing
this week, what hot court case is going on, what
sensational story cable tv wants us to follow today.
I'm happy to be out of the loop.

Sadly the terrorism story is quickly falling into this
category for me. :-(

>Prolix and philosophical on a moderately depressive Sunday morning,

My aunt and 15-yr old cousin in Palo Alto attended the
SF rally. They said it was great. Apparently my cousin
was the one who wanted to go. I'm not a rally-er and it
surprises me when folk I know do it.

-rashmi, lazy


_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 22:45:23 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:43:37 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 10:02:03 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > Hmm.  I should perhaps turn on the electric teevee.  I've had it on in
>> > the past week or so only for watching "Survivor" Thursday night and an
>> > MSU basketball game last night.   Are you saying that the rah-rah Bush
>> > of the last time I watched teevee news has died down some?
>>
>> I thought he made speeches almost every day last week.

> He who?  We were talking about tv broadcasters, weren't we?  I know what
> Dubya has said because I've read what he's said.  I thought the topic
> here was the tone of the tv people -- it had seemed very rah-rah Bush to
> me.

Oh. I thought you were talking about Bush pushing the war, not
the broadcasters supporting him.

I haven't seen much of that, but I haven't been looking much,
either.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 22:47:14 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:45:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 10:16:00 PM, you wrote:
> Tomorrow is a working day for us but I guess we get to
> celebrate whatver Yankee holday it is.

President's Day.

It's supposed to go down to 30 tonight.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 22:48:05 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 22:46:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 10:16:15 PM, you wrote:

>> Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:31:13 PM, you wrote:
>> > Hmm.  I should perhaps turn on the electric teevee.  I've had it on
> in
>> > the past week or so only for watching "Survivor" Thursday night and
> an
>> > MSU basketball game last night.   Are you saying that the rah-rah
> Bush
>> > of the last time I watched teevee news has died down some?
>>
>> I thought he made speeches almost every day last week.
>>
>> Karen,

> I thought we were talking about news slant.

Maybe.

> I don't hear newscasters saying rah rah Bush.

Nor I.

> I did hear the one, as I mentioned, refer in a
> rather weird way to "the Bush rhetoric".

What do you think comes out of his mouth?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:14:58 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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> > >Is the Midwest known to be gullible or stupid?
> > >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
> >
> > Unsophisticated is the usual term.   All the sophistication is on the
> > coasts of this country.
> >     --bonniev
>
>Please show proof of that, Bonnie.
>             - D. M.

I'm not saying it is true.  I'm saying that it is a widespread
perception.  You are the one that first equated Midwesterner with
naive.   Personally, I've found that one area of sophistication that the
middle of this country seems to lack is decent food and drink.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:22:42 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:22:02 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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>No maintenance to
>worry about.

Realtor-speak for "condo."

Janet

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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:27:06 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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>Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:03:53 PM, you wrote:
>>  Which breaks Hardy's First Law of Clothing: Thou shalt not wear
>>  that which makes me feel like a jerk.
>
>No one can wear anything that makes you feel like a jerk?

Sorry, should have been "thee." Was posting in a hurry -- Miles,
Kristine, Ben & I met Frank for dinner in Pleasanton.

Miles & Kristine's auditions apparently went well. Each got one
callback -- Miles from University of Illinois Champaign/Urbana,
Kristine from University of Ohio. Now they have to decide where they
want to apply.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:28:16 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:27:51 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: housekeeping IMFTATL
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>In a message dated 02/16/2003 9:01:20 PM Central Standard Time,
>verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
><<
>Hmm. If it works on tile it would probably work on concrete. Any idea
>what they cost?
>
>>>
>
>Hoover Floormate?  The price is usually $179.99 no matter where you
>go.  Scrubbers?  Usually around $150 - 200.

Thank you. That's fairly high but not insanely so. Perhaps next time
I'm feeling flush.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:28:26 2003
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Message-ID: <000401c2d645$a86257e0$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:30:18 -0600
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> > > >Is the Midwest known to be gullible or stupid?
> > > >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
> > >
> > > Unsophisticated is the usual term.   All the sophistication is on
the
> > > coasts of this country.
> > >     --bonniev
> >
> >Please show proof of that, Bonnie.
> >             - D. M.
>
> I'm not saying it is true.  I'm saying that it is a widespread
> perception.  You are the one that first equated Midwesterner with
> naive.   Personally, I've found that one area of sophistication that
the
> middle of this country seems to lack is decent food and drink.
>
>
>     --bonniev

Bonnie, I was just kidding.
But you knew that.

         - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:29:37 2003
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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] report from NYC
Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:27:45 -0600
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> I'm not saying it is true.  I'm saying that it is a widespread
> perception.  You are the one that first equated Midwesterner with
> naive.   Personally, I've found that one area of sophistication that the
> middle of this country seems to lack is decent food and drink.
>
>
>     --bonniev
>
Gawd, that's true.  I have to go to Minneapolis or Chicago to get a decent
beer, not to mention a good steak. The nearest Outback is 50 miles. And they
think that Sam Adams is "exotic" here. However, there are other marks of
sophistication. The art museum is impeccable, we do have the only hotel that
Frank Lloyd Wright ever built, and every year in January Clear Lake hosts
Legends. This year the Big Bopper was here. Now that is sophistication.

Jo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:31:01 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:29:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Bitch clothes
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 11:27:06 PM, you wrote:
> Miles & Kristine's auditions apparently went well. Each got one
> callback -- Miles from University of Illinois Champaign/Urbana,
> Kristine from University of Ohio. Now they have to decide where they
> want to apply.

There's not a University of Ohio. Ohio University in Athens? Or
Ohio State in Columbus?

I'm glad they went well.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:32:59 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:32:20 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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>Janet:
>
>>For reasons I don't really understand -- on
>>bad days they make me paranoid and on good ones simply despairing --
>>everything in the culture and media seems to be teaming up to make
>>people feel that they are in constant and unrelenting danger. As a
>>result, we are beset with stress, depression and rage -- which are
>>all entirely appropriate reactions to feeling endangered.
>
>My response is to completely ignore the teevee hype-of-the
>week story whatever it might be. I refuse to follow the
>story no matter how compelling. It's sad but I can't do
>anything about it and I don't really care who's missing
>this week, what hot court case is going on, what
>sensational story cable tv wants us to follow today.
>I'm happy to be out of the loop.

I've pretty much done the same. I've never been a big fan of
broadcast news, but these days I can't even stand to read the news
section of the paper.

>  >Prolix and philosophical on a moderately depressive Sunday morning,
>
>My aunt and 15-yr old cousin in Palo Alto attended the
>SF rally. They said it was great. Apparently my cousin
>was the one who wanted to go. I'm not a rally-er and it
>surprises me when folk I know do it.

I wound up being there, although not intentionally. It just worked
out that Ben & I met up with Miles & Kristine on the corner of Market
and O'Farrell. It really was awesome, in the true sense of the word
-- Market St. packed absolutely shoulder-to-shoulder with people for
as far as you could see in both directions. Made the Pride Parade
look scanty. When the crowd cheered approval for something or other,
the roar felt like it was shaking the sidewalk.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:34:48 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 21:34:18 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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>Sunday, February 16, 2003, 11:27:06 PM, you wrote:
>>  Miles & Kristine's auditions apparently went well. Each got one
>>  callback -- Miles from University of Illinois Champaign/Urbana,
>>  Kristine from University of Ohio. Now they have to decide where they
>>  want to apply.
>
>There's not a University of Ohio. Ohio University in Athens? Or
>Ohio State in Columbus?

I don't know, and I think they've gone out for a walk. They're toast.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:42:30 2003
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Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2003 23:40:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Bitch clothes
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 11:34:18 PM, you wrote:

>>Sunday, February 16, 2003, 11:27:06 PM, you wrote:
>>>  Miles & Kristine's auditions apparently went well. Each got one
>>>  callback -- Miles from University of Illinois Champaign/Urbana,
>>>  Kristine from University of Ohio. Now they have to decide where they
>>>  want to apply.
>>
>>There's not a University of Ohio. Ohio University in Athens? Or
>>Ohio State in Columbus?

> I don't know, and I think they've gone out for a walk. They're toast.

I imagine.:)

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 16 23:58:42 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 00:00:33 -0600
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> >
> Gawd, that's true.  I have to go to Minneapolis or Chicago to get a
decent
> beer, not to mention a good steak. The nearest Outback is 50 miles.
And they
> think that Sam Adams is "exotic" here. However, there are other marks
of
> sophistication. The art museum is impeccable, we do have the only
hotel that
> Frank Lloyd Wright ever built, and every year in January Clear Lake
hosts
> Legends. This year the Big Bopper was here. Now that is
sophistication.
>
> Jo

Clear Lake was mentioned just recently
on Words-L.  An anniversary, I think it was.
"The day music died"
                          - D. M.

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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In a message dated 2/16/2003 3:47:40 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Cannot speak for everyone, but for me, yes.

alyce
 >>

You can speak for me too. Theo

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In a message dated 02/16/2003 11:26:36 PM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
Thank you. That's fairly high but not insanely so. Perhaps next time
I'm feeling flush.

>>

Check Wal-Mart; it might be cheaper there.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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>>http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/

Very good - I first thought the mound (or barrow?) was in Uppsala since things look very similar there.

Espen

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10:45 14.02.2003 -0700 skrev John Williams:
>Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
>> Supposedly these were seen at a recent peace rally in Australia.  Some
>> of them are pretty good:
>
>    And if these "useful idiots" and fellow-travelers weren't so busy helping turn the possibility of war into a
>virtual certainty their naive bumper-sticker-IQ foreign policy would be hilarious.  I don't suppose these wannabe
>Quislings realize that we can see the dead giveaway in their signage?

Actually, I thought that this was one of the main points of the US plan: to establish a Quisling government in Iraq.

Espen - from the country which gave the world a new word

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Subject: Good movies!
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Saturday I found a video I have been looking for for a couple of years - since my copy of it disappeared before I moved from Bergen: Dusan Makavejev's Manifesto. It still is *very* good. But we also went out to the movie theatres: Saturday we saw Chihiro and the wicthes - good Japanese animation and Sunday the Danish digma movie: (I) love you forever. This could have been - or was - a depressing movie but it was made bearable by some very good humor. Actually a very good movie.

Espen

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 01:34:28 -0700
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Joanne Jemison wrote:

>  we do have the only hotel that
> Frank Lloyd Wright ever built

    REALLY???  There's one in Snotsdale where I've eaten that must be really
mis-attributed, and there was another in Tokyo that survived the '27 earthquake,
but perhaps we're thinking of another Frank Lloyd Wright.
    Oh, but, darn, there's those old facts getting in the way again...

JMW

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Subject: Re: abulia
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15:10 14.02.2003 -0800 skrev Ann Borkin:
>I just learned this word:  found it in the phrase "the abulia of
>alienation."
>
>Abulia.  Gr. a, neg. + boule, will.  A loss of will power.  Also spelled
>aboulia.

And the modern Greek parliament is called I Vouli (where there has been a couple of sound changes b->v, e->i).

Espen

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In a message dated 2/16/2003 10:25:43 PM, verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<< Miles & Kristine's auditions apparently went well. Each got one
callback -- Miles from University of Illinois Champaign/Urbana,
Kristine from University of Ohio. Now they have to decide where they
want to apply.
 >>

Happy for them. Theo

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bonniev wrote:

> Unsophisticated is the usual term.   All the sophistication is on the
> coasts of this country.

    True.  All we fly-overs are just rubes to be ridiculed, scorned, and
bled of our tax money.

JMW

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bonniev wrote:

> This reminds me for some reason of the Iraqi spokesman who was asked if
> Iraq would attack Israel if the US attacks Iraq.   He gave the "right"
> answer:   "We do not have the means to attack Israel."

    I guess this means that Scuds aren't "means".

JMW

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In a message dated 2/17/2003 12:51:01 AM, BrandyKitt@AOL.COM writes:

<< Check Wal-Mart; it might be cheaper there.
 >>

Yes, I just bought a fancy bagless vacuum there yesterday, and I saw the kind
of scrubber that was mentioned here, but I didn't look at the price, sorry.
Theo

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08:31 15.02.2003 +0000 skrev Roy Jaques:
>On Thursday, February 13, 2003, at 09:22 , Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
>>Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>>>We're at Yellow Alert, the stage below Red Alert. Everyone is
>>
>>I think we're Orange, aren't we?
>
>Only Theo, Steph is probably only half way...

By coincidence I found out where this Orange came from: Provence.

Espen

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09:28 15.02.2003 +0000 skrev Roy Jaques:

>>600,000 Jews, 4 million Arabs.
>The four million arabs and other immigrants are the reason the
>French voted for Le Pen. It's not just anti-jewish, it's
>anti-immigrant.

So this is what could correctly be called anti-semitism.

Espen

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:07:47 +0100
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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16:21 15.02.2003 +0000 skrev Adam Hartfield:
>Happy birthday, Clyde.

Yes, from me too!

Espen

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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> No, that is the point. We are talking about issues where "mind" is not
> necessarily involved. I'm speaking of things like faith, hope, intuition.
> When my mind is involved, I like to believe I am open to rational and
> persuasive argument. But there are some things that go so deeply to my gut
> that I just cannot put the reasoning into any kind of factual terms.

    Hint:  Reason and truth go far in persuading others toward your viewpoint.
Fairydust just don't cut it.

JMW

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21:46 15.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Saturday, February 15, 2003, 9:42:10 PM, you wrote:
>> Karen Kay wrote:
>>> > I dunno.  It might add an oily smell, but I have no idea whether cats
>>> > find oily smells appealing.
>>>
>>> Not unless it's fish oil.
>
>> Do you have any codliver oil?
>
>No.

Codliver oil is supposedly good for you in many ways. I eat a tbs every morning.

Espen

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:28:03 +0100
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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04:16 17.02.2003 +0000 skrev Rashmi Murthy:
>Sure feels like the "Blizzard of the Century" all over again. Difference
>is it's been sustained over a longer period this time. I looked but can't
>find snow accumulations for this area. Looks like 18" with another 10"
>expected tomorrow. The wind's really picked up and it looks nasty
>outside. I'm not looking forward to digging out.

Here it was -10C this morning but the sun is shining and the sparrows are singing in the bushes in tha park outside the library.

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 05:23:46 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:21:45 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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Ours is "freezing drizzle" until 10 a.m.  Yuck.  And I just looked
outside and saw that this is going to be one of those mornings of a good
bit of windshield scraping.  Yuck yuck.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 05:24:55 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:22:54 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Joanne Jemison wrote:
>
> I promise I don't ordinarily forward jokes, and this will not become a
> habit.

Don't feel bad.  Though we're not big on joke-posting, that particular
one has been posted here before. :-)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 05:29:59 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:27:58 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>  Personally, I've found that one area of sophistication that the
> middle of this country seems to lack is decent food and drink.

Does sophisticated = decent?  What exactly is sophisticated food and
drink -- as in what makes one consider one kind of food or drink
<sophisticated> and another kind not?  (My questions are serious ones.
I've heard people talk about sophisticated tastes in food/drink but have
never been sure what makes something sophisticated.  Is it a matter of
how long it takes to prepare it or of whether the ingredients are
<exotic> or what?)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 05:34:23 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:32:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Please review this property listing found onwww.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> >No maintenance to
> >worry about.
>
> Realtor-speak for "condo."

But it wasn't a condo.  I remember seeing that in one of those ads and
wondering about it.  Can't remember now which one except that I don't
think it was one of the ones I was most interested in.  All of them have
small yards, a definite plus to me, but none were totally yardless -- as
in NO maintenance.  And I don't remember seeing mention of an
association fee, although I might have missed that.  Iow, the "no
maintenance" might mean that the neighborhood is condo-like in the sense
of paying a fee for things like a communal yard-care person or house
painters or whatever.  I would prefer not to get involved in that kind
of arrangement.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 05:35:45 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 05:33:39 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> This year the Big Bopper was here. Now that is sophistication.

What??  Was it a seance?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 05:53:45 2003
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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Natalie Maynor:
= bonniev wrote:
= >  Personally, I've found that one area of sophistication that the
= > middle of this country seems to lack is decent food and drink.
=
= Does sophisticated = decent?  What exactly is sophisticated food and
= drink -- as in what makes one consider one kind of food or drink
= <sophisticated> and another kind not?  (My questions are serious ones.
= I've heard people talk about sophisticated tastes in food/drink but have
= never been sure what makes something sophisticated.  Is it a matter of
= how long it takes to prepare it or of whether the ingredients are
= <exotic> or what?)
=

I like the dictionary here.  Sophisticated: the process or result of
becoming more complex, developed or subtle.  And decent: fairly good
but not excellent.

So perhaps for Bonnie, it's not decent unless it's sophisticated.

That said, by far and away the most sophisticated meal I've ever
had was in Chicago.  Which is about as middle as it gets.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 06:03:52 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 06:01:50 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:

> That said, by far and away the most sophisticated meal I've ever
> had was in Chicago.  Which is about as middle as it gets.

What did that meal consist of?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 07:28:57 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 07:26:59 -0600
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> Joanne Jemison wrote:
>
> >  we do have the only hotel that
> > Frank Lloyd Wright ever built
>
>     REALLY???  There's one in Snotsdale where I've eaten that must be
really
> mis-attributed, and there was another in Tokyo that survived the '27
earthquake,
> but perhaps we're thinking of another Frank Lloyd Wright.
>     Oh, but, darn, there's those old facts getting in the way again...
>
Boy, who put the testosterone in your Wheaties? I'm quite ready to be told
that the local CoC is incorrect and Mr. Wright built more hotels. But
perhaps not by a smartass from Snotsdale. Or is that a snot from Snotsdale.

Joanne, who sometimes actually believes the local hype and is now headed for
some Frank Lloyd Wright research

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 07:31:08 2003
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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] Is this for real?
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 07:29:14 -0600
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>     Hint:  Reason and truth go far in persuading others toward your
viewpoint.
> Fairydust just don't cut it.
>
> JMW

Other hint: remember not to try any kind of persuasion with JMW.

Jo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 07:40:31 2003
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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
To: "words" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Clear Lake and Big Bopper
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 07:38:36 -0600
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Natalie wrote earlier asking if the event in Clear Lake was a seance...

I dunno. It never occurred to me that the Big Bopper was dead, but of course
he is. I didn't go to Legend Fest. There were a lot of Buddy Holly fans too.
And since the billboards around town were touting The Big Bopper, I can only
assume it was a convocation of rock 'n roll loving necrophiliacs. The few
clips I saw on the teevee were of very weird looking people. But it was
sophisticated.

In my searches I have learned that there is a restaurant in Clear Lake which
has Guiness. I am impressed and will have to go there some day. Max likes
Guiness, but I doubt they will give him any. He is underage.

Jo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 07:46:00 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:44:08 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Natalie Maynor:
= steph wrote:
=
= > That said, by far and away the most sophisticated meal I've ever
= > had was in Chicago.  Which is about as middle as it gets.
=
= What did that meal consist of?
=

I'd have to fish out the menu for you to tell you exactly.  We
went to Charlie Trotter's and had a late summer vegetable menu.
I remember that because it had all kinds of tomato things on it.
Here's the current winter menu:
http://www.charlietrotters.com/cuisine/menu.asp?menu=vegetable

that little 'Mignardises' at the bottom of the menu is a bit
misleading - they covered the entire table, every square inch,
with plates of desserts.  It was visually overwhelming, but it
was mostly big plate and small dessert.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 07:46:50 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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Subject: Re:      For Alec
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:43:56 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Kay" <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 3:42 PM
Subject: For Alec


> http://www.giveboobs.com/
>
> Karen
> "One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only
yesterday."
>    -Eeyore
>

Karen,

I only crave your sexy, yummy breasts.


alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 07:54:01 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:51:56 +0000
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K*R*N:

>Sunday, February 16, 2003, 10:16:00 PM, you wrote:

K*R*N, fix your attribution or stop using it.

> > Tomorrow is a working day for us but I guess we get to
> > celebrate whatver Yankee holday it is.

>President's Day.

That was Natalie's cue.

>It's supposed to go down to 30 tonight.

Bo-ring! I couldn't stand staying indoors any longer and went
for a longish walk first thing in the morning. The wind was
nasty and cold, blowing snow everywhere. Hardest part was
getting out of the driveway. The snow was almost upto the top
of my jeans. There are two pairs of plump cardinals in the
backyard and the storm doesn't seem to have upset them
any. They were out playing as usual. They look beautiful
against all the snow.

Digging out's not gonna be fun,
-rashmi



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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 08:00:23 2003
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Subject: Re:      Feels like 1996...
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> Sure feels like the "Blizzard of the Century" all over again. Difference
> is it's been sustained over a longer period this time. I looked but can't
> find snow accumulations for this area. Looks like 18" with another 10"
> expected tomorrow. The wind's really picked up and it looks nasty
> outside. I'm not looking forward to digging out.
>

It is amazing. Our car is lost in the snow.


alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 08:04:07 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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bonniev, JMW:

> > Unsophisticated is the usual term.   All the sophistication is on the
> > coasts of this country.

>    True.  All we fly-overs are just rubes to be ridiculed, scorned, and
>bled of our tax money.

REALLY?! I've seen fact-based articles that the midwest and
mountain states get way more federal money per capita than
the coasts, particularly the ones that get slammed for everything,
NY and California. From welfare to pork the mddle states
rake it in.

What about the other perception that the midwest has the
corner on truth, goodness, the american way. I find the
soi-disant apple-of-the-earth smugness quite wearying.
Seems like the fashion to dump on the coasts, esp the
northeast, these days. (This attitude is rampant in blogland.)

-rashmi

-rashmi



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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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Subject: Re:      Re: My lame web site has been updated.
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Espen Ore" <Espen.Ore@NB.NO>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 3:21 AM
Subject: Re: My lame web site has been updated.


> >>http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/
>
> Very good - I first thought the mound (or barrow?) was in Uppsala since
things look very similar there.
>
> Espen
>

The hill is in the British countryside. A link with picture had info. It was
a great trip.

alec

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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>bonniev wrote:
> > Unsophisticated is the usual term.   All the sophistication is on the
> > coasts of this country.
>
>     True.  All we fly-overs are just rubes to be ridiculed, scorned, and
>bled of our tax money.
>JMW

So true.   The first time I encountered that attitude was when I had two
women from Brooklyn, New York as roommates at the University of
Wisconsin.   I took one of them home with me for Thanksgiving.   She had
never seen traffic go both ways on the same highway, undivided by a
concrete barrier.   She had grown up thinking there were still Indians
roaming the interior of this country.   She didn't know we grew corn and
wheat in this country.  She assumed that was what Canada was for.

Then there is the son-in-law of Ohio friends of ours.   He went to Notre
Dame and then to med school in the Great Plains some place.  Now he is in
Detroit doing his internship.   He had a chance for a fellowship in
Boston.   But he doesn't want to associate with the "East Coast
snobs".   Uh huh.

On the other hand, I seem to be picking up the East Coast snobbery by some
kind of osmosis.  I'm beginning to look down on the middle of this
country.  I would have thought Maine, just named the second most rural
state in the union (based on what part of the population lives with
sidewalks), was immune to the snobbery.   Maybe it's all these Boston and
NYC types who vacation here.


    --bonniev

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>bonniev wrote:
>
> > This reminds me for some reason of the Iraqi spokesman who was asked if
> > Iraq would attack Israel if the US attacks Iraq.   He gave the "right"
> > answer:   "We do not have the means to attack Israel."
>
>     I guess this means that Scuds aren't "means".
>JMW

John, you haven't been paying attention.   Iraq no longer has those kinds
of weapons.   They deny them.  We can't find them. They aren't there.


    --bonniev

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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steph:

>I'd have to fish out the menu for you to tell you exactly.  We
>went to Charlie Trotter's and had a late summer vegetable menu.

No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
The foodie mecca.

-rashmi






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Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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>Here it was -10C this morning but the sun is shining and the sparrows are
>singing in the bushes in tha park outside the library.    --Espen

Ah, winter has turned and you are marching toward Spring.   Looks like we
might a bit of the Big Storm after all.  But not until tonight, after we
have done our skiing.   The Weather Channel irritated me yesterday.  First
they named the storm:  The President's Day Storm.  Then every time they
came back from a commercial, they told us "The Weather Channel has gone On
Alert following the large storm that is hitting the midwest and eventually
New England."   On Alert?  Next they will have their own color-coded system
for dire weather events.


    --bonniev

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>What exactly is sophisticated food and
>drink -- as in what makes one consider one kind of food or drink
><sophisticated> and another kind not?

It doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't know.

>  (My questions are serious ones.

I believe you.

>I've heard people talk about sophisticated tastes in food/drink but have
>never been sure what makes something sophisticated.  Is it a matter of
>how long it takes to prepare it or of whether the ingredients are
><exotic> or what?)    -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

No, it's a matter of whether or not you can eat it while leaning over a sink.


    --bonniev

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>That said, by far and away the most sophisticated meal I've ever
>had was in Chicago.  Which is about as middle as it gets.

I was going to exempt the large cities when I made my statement.  Jo
understood.


    --bonniev

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Espen:

>09:28 15.02.2003 +0000 skrev Roy Jaques:

> >>600,000 Jews, 4 million Arabs.
> >The four million arabs and other immigrants are the reason the
> >French voted for Le Pen. It's not just anti-jewish, it's
> >anti-immigrant.

>So this is what could correctly be called anti-semitism.

Espen, you intellectural! Seriously, does that definition count outside
academia?

-rashmi



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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:17:18 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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 >What about the other perception that the midwest has the
>corner on truth, goodness, the american way.

Yup.  That's part of their naive charm.

>Seems like the fashion to dump on the coasts, esp the
>northeast, these days. (This attitude is rampant in blogland.)
>-rashmi

"Dump"  Ha ha.   Looks like Mother Nature got in on the act.  There has got
to be a joke in the fact that D.C. got hammered with a winter
storm.  Something about "hell freezing over."


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:19:17 -0500
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
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>No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
>the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
>The foodie mecca.
>-rashmi

The best restaurant in the country seems to have been agreed upon.  It is
in the Napa Valley.  The French Laundry.


    --bonniev

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14:13 17.02.2003 +0000 skrev Rashmi Murthy:
>Espen:
>
>>09:28 15.02.2003 +0000 skrev Roy Jaques:
>
>>>>600,000 Jews, 4 million Arabs.
>>>The four million arabs and other immigrants are the reason the
>>>French voted for Le Pen. It's not just anti-jewish, it's
>>>anti-immigrant.
>
>>So this is what could correctly be called anti-semitism.
>
>Espen, you intellectural! Seriously, does that definition count outside
>academia?

I am not sure it works even inside academia anymore. But I am stubborn.

Espen

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:35:29 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>> Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:03:53 PM, you wrote:
>>
>>>  Which breaks Hardy's First Law of Clothing: Thou shalt not wear
>>>  that which makes me feel like a jerk.
>>
>>
>> No one can wear anything that makes you feel like a jerk?
>
>
> Sorry, should have been "thee." Was posting in a hurry -- Miles,
> Kristine, Ben & I met Frank for dinner in Pleasanton.
>
> Miles & Kristine's auditions apparently went well. Each got one
> callback -- Miles from University of Illinois Champaign/Urbana,
> Kristine from University of Ohio. Now they have to decide where they
> want to apply.


        They're being sucked back to the midwest!  They'll experience
some humdinger culture shock, I tell you.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:42:57 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>> As I was cleaning syrup off the diningroom table, I
>> remembered an episode from this morning.  All eight girls
>> were seated around the table eating their pancakes, when for
>> some reason they decided to pass the Mrs. Butterworth bottle
>> around with each child administering a thorough spanking as
>> it passed.
>>
>> I'll have a fruitless theory for this in a few days.
>
>
> Here you go: all kids are sadomasochists; some grow out of it for
> reasons unknown.
>
> Ever hear a group of kids debating the question of what would be the
> coolest torture? Or playing "betcha can't tie me up so I can't get
> away"?


        What they're playing with is the idea of control, which is
normal for childhood (that's what the terrible two's are all
about, after all -- although I personally found three to be
insane).  I will resist the temptation to theorize that BDSM
is just being stuck in a psychological stage ala Freud.

        Here's a real downside of a high pain tolerance -- I've been
pissing blood for two days, and I'm not in any pain at all.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:46:07 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Karen Kay wrote:


> This is so wacko, Doris!!!! Whyever would the idea of paid
> participants at a peach march ever cross your mind?


        OH, man.  I need to go to a peach march!

        Down with nectarines!





--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 08:48:07 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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bonniev wrote:

>> > >Is the Midwest known to be gullible or stupid?
>> > >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>> >
>> > Unsophisticated is the usual term.   All the sophistication is on the
>> > coasts of this country.
>> >     --bonniev
>>
>> Please show proof of that, Bonnie.
>>             - D. M.
>
>
> I'm not saying it is true.  I'm saying that it is a widespread
> perception.  You are the one that first equated Midwesterner with
> naive.   Personally, I've found that one area of sophistication that the
> middle of this country seems to lack is decent food and drink.


        Yes.  Average restaurant food out here really does taste bad.
  In NE, average restaurant food is usually quite good.  My
theory is that there is greater competition -- if your food
is lousy, you close up pretty quick.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Had to cancel because of snow. My friend Nadine was not sanguine about
driving. Only about an inch now, but we'd be out four hours from now, by
which time it looks as if there might be 4-5". Rescheduled for next
Monday, so longer to wiat. Sigh. Driving myself is a problem because you
cannot park anywhere near the entrance. Even the handicapped spots are
some distance from the door. Very poor planning.
--
alyce

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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:52:18 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] report from NYC
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:47:30 AM Central Standard Time,
rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<
OH, man.  I need to go to a peach march!
>>

Hot brandied peaches with vanilla ice cream?
I'll march for that!

I'm going in today to see if the store's only HR person
will be in so I can sign some paperwork and go through
an exit interview (Q:  Why are you leaving?  A:  Annegret
is evil, and management is willing to let everyone in the
department go to keep her.  Marie, Mary, Sabah, and
others have left because of her; I'm just the latest.)

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:54:57 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
> the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
> The foodie mecca.

This is so funny to me. Here I am, from Chicago, but never have heard of
Charlie Trotter. I see myself as being totally out of it now--neither an
East Coast sophisticate nor a Chicago one.

Stupid in G'town
>
> -rashmi
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:57:58 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>         Here's a real downside of a high pain tolerance -- I've been
> pissing blood for two days, and I'm not in any pain at all.

Cranberry juice is good for that. I am alarmed. Why are you calm?

alyce

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:04:01 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: My lame web site has been updated.
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Espen Ore wrote:

>>>http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/
>>>
>
> Very good - I first thought the mound (or barrow?) was in Uppsala since things look very similar there.
>
        The Cahokia Mounds, which are about 15 minutes away

from me in Illinois, are also similar.  Cahokia was built
during the Mississipian period and is thought to have been
a thriving little city with an estimated population greater
than that of contemporary Cahokia.

        We have photos of Niagara that look like they could have been
taken the same day.  We went up in November the year I was
pregnant with Ana.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 09:13:15 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:08:04 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Joanne Jemison wrote:

>>    Hint:  Reason and truth go far in persuading others toward your
>>
> viewpoint.
>
>>Fairydust just don't cut it.
>>
>>JMW
>>
>
> Other hint: remember not to try any kind of persuasion with JMW.


        Jo, try not to take John very seriously. He gets as little
bit techy sometimes.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:09:08 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>        Here's a real downside of a high pain tolerance -- I've been
>>pissing blood for two days, and I'm not in any pain at all.
>>
>
> Cranberry juice is good for that. I am alarmed. Why are you calm?
>


        I'm not sure it is a UTI because I know what those feel like.
  I'm not alarmed because I feel fine.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:24:04 -0600
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----- Original Message -----
From: "bonniev" <bonniev@PANAX.COM>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] report from NYC


> >That said, by far and away the most sophisticated meal I've ever
> >had was in Chicago.  Which is about as middle as it gets.
>
> I was going to exempt the large cities when I made my statement.  Jo
> understood.
>
Yes, but it was a gut reaction.

Jo

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:29:31 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: housekeeping IMFTATL
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 1:50:37 AM, you wrote:
> Check Wal-Mart; it might be cheaper there.

Costco has them, too, I think.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 09:34:54 2003
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From: "Joanne Jemison" <jemison@mchsi.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] Is this for real?
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:32:54 -0600
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>         Jo, try not to take John very seriously. He gets as little
> bit techy sometimes.
>
I gathered as much. Must be that time of the month. My husband gets that way
when he consumes sugar, or when a wood project doesn't go well.

This month he is making beautiful hand planes. I don't know what I would do
with one, but they are so gorgeous I want one. He will probably sell them on
eBay. There are people out there who will pay literally hundreds of dollars
for a well-made handplane. I suppose some of the menfolk on this list would
know about such things. Although his last batch sold mostly to wimmen. Go
figure... And they were buying for themselves.

I on the other hand miss turning wood the most. It is rather like hard
cloth. In my other life I would have been a fabric artist. Good thing I can
still do words.

Serendipity alert:  quote from a transcript I have just begun working on
this morning.

Q:  What was your goal when the committee was organized?

A:  We saw ourselves architecting a program for the financial future of the
entire project.

Architect is not a verb. But this deponee is in love with his
pseudo-vocabulary. It will be an interesting morning.

Jo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 09:43:36 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:40:33 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Joanne Jemison wrote:
> This month he is making beautiful hand planes. I don't know what I would do
> with one, but they are so gorgeous I want one.

I have a couple of these, as well as some other hand-made woodworking
tools. They are indeed beautiful. The ones I have were made in the 1800s
by a German woodworker. His son worked for my father and gave the tools
to him. Mind you that the son was in his 70s when he worked for Daddy. I
have them mounted on a framed board and they are supposed to be hanging
in the upstairs hall, but the chain broke and needs to be repaired,
something Jeff did not get around to when he was here.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 09:47:29 2003
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This is an old joke.  It is usually followed by - first they put his right hand in...

Various reports have him dying at age 83 or 93 with dates of death covering about the
last 3 years.  Larry La Prise idi indeed write "The Hokey Pokey"  but he didn't die
yesterday.


BrP





> Larry La Prise, the man who wrote "The Hokey Pokey" died peacefully at
> age 93 today.
> --
> alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 09:57:24 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:55:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:35:29 AM, you wrote:
>         They're being sucked back to the midwest!  They'll experience
> some humdinger culture shock, I tell you.

I dunno; Miles has been living in Irvine. That could prepare you
for the midwest.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:00:50 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:58:48 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:32:54 AM, you wrote:
> Architect is not a verb.

Yes, it is.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:02:50 2003
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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> >         Jo, try not to take John very seriously. He gets as little
> > bit techy sometimes.
> >
> I gathered as much. Must be that time of the month. My husband gets that way
> when he consumes sugar, or when a wood project doesn't go well.

    I don't understand this.  I *feel*.  I *care*.  Don't my emotions count?

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:05:45 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:03:56 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:08:55 AM, you wrote:
> steph:
>>I'd have to fish out the menu for you to tell you exactly.  We
>>went to Charlie Trotter's and had a late summer vegetable menu.

> No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
> the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
> The foodie mecca.

I'd never heard of it before--but damn, I think Tushar should
take me to dinner there next year!

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:07:19 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:05:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Cleaning concrete floors, for Janet
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Janet,

This is what my friend said:
"I vacuum them to get the dust and dog hairs, and then I damp mop
them if the dogs brought in any mud. At least once a month I use
a sealer that makes it shine and much easier to sweep or vacuum.

In the kitchen she will really want a good sealer so that it
cleans easily. But I have to admit these floors are not as easy
as one would think."

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:10:24 -0600
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> bonniev wrote:
> >  Personally, I've found that one area of sophistication that the
> > middle of this country seems to lack is decent food and drink.
>
> Does sophisticated = decent?  What exactly is sophisticated food and
> drink -- as in what makes one consider one kind of food or drink
> <sophisticated> and another kind not?  (My questions are serious ones.
> I've heard people talk about sophisticated tastes in food/drink but
have
> never been sure what makes something sophisticated.  Is it a matter of
> how long it takes to prepare it or of whether the ingredients are
> <exotic> or what?)
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


Sophistocated food =

Less on your plate, more on your bill.

               - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:06:36 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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LIBERAL RADIO IS PLANNED BY RICH GROUP OF DEMOCRATS
By JIM RUTENBERG


A group of wealthy Democratic donors is planning to start a liberal
radio
network to counterbalance the conservative tenor of radio programs like
"The Rush Limbaugh Show."

The group, led by Sheldon and Anita Drobny, venture capitalists from
Chicago who have been major campaign donors for Bill Clinton and Al
Gore,
is in talks with Al Franken, the comedian and author of "Rush Limbaugh
Is a
Big Fat Idiot." It hopes to enlist other well-known entertainers with a
liberal point of view for a 14-hour, daily slate of commercial programs
that would heavily rely on comedy and political satire.

The plan faces several business and content challenges, from finding a
network of radio stations to buy the program to overcoming the poor
track
record of liberal radio shows. But it is the most ambitious undertaking
yet
to come from liberal Democrats who believe they are overshadowed in the
political propaganda wars by conservative radio and television
personalities.
--
alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:09:32 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:07:47 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Feels like 1996...
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 7:51:56 AM, you wrote:

> K*R*N:

>>Sunday, February 16, 2003, 10:16:00 PM, you wrote:

> K*R*N, fix your attribution or stop using it.

I've been trying to fix it, but haven't succeeded yet.

>>It's supposed to go down to 30 tonight.

> Bo-ring!

It's exciting when it doesn't happen very often. And you don't
have the burden of digging out.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:14:20 -0700
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Joanne Jemison wrote:

> Other hint: remember not to try any kind of persuasion with JMW.

        No, just remember to make it totally composed of emotion and
completely absent of any taint of thought, the curse of logic, or
reason.  Just *feel*...

JMW

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:17:03 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> LIBERAL RADIO IS PLANNED BY RICH GROUP OF DEMOCRATS
> By JIM RUTENBERG
>
> A group of wealthy Democratic donors is planning to start a liberal
> radio
> network to counterbalance the conservative tenor of radio programs like
> "The Rush Limbaugh Show."
>
> The group, led by Sheldon and Anita Drobny, venture capitalists from
> Chicago who have been major campaign donors for Bill Clinton and Al
> Gore,
> is in talks with Al Franken, the comedian and author of "Rush Limbaugh
> Is a
> Big Fat Idiot." It hopes to enlist other well-known entertainers with a
> liberal point of view for a 14-hour, daily slate of commercial programs
> that would heavily rely on comedy and political satire.
>
> The plan faces several business and content challenges, from finding a
> network of radio stations to buy the program to overcoming the poor
> track
> record of liberal radio shows. But it is the most ambitious undertaking
> yet
> to come from liberal Democrats who believe they are overshadowed in the
> political propaganda wars by conservative radio and television
> personalities.
> --
> alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:23:31 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: [WORDS-L] Is this for real?
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>         No, just remember to make it totally composed of emotion and
> completely absent of any taint of thought, the curse of logic, or
> reason.  Just *feel*...
>
> JMW

I feel your pain, John. I really do.

Jo

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:18:39 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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John Williams wrote:

> Joanne Jemison wrote:
>
>
>>>        Jo, try not to take John very seriously. He gets as little
>>>bit techy sometimes.
>>>
>>>
>>I gathered as much. Must be that time of the month. My husband gets that way
>>when he consumes sugar, or when a wood project doesn't go well.
>>
>
>     I don't understand this.  I *feel*.  I *care*.  Don't my emotions count?
>


        There, there, dear.  Of course they do.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:23:30 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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Subject: Re: Watch out, Rush
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alyce cresap wrote:

> LIBERAL RADIO IS PLANNED BY RICH GROUP OF DEMOCRATS
> By JIM RUTENBERG
>
> A group of wealthy Democratic donors is planning to start a liberal
> radio
> network to counterbalance the conservative tenor of radio programs like
> "The Rush Limbaugh Show."

    Have they read today's "Doonesbury"?

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:35:08 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: Watch out, Rush
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:36:52 -0600
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John . . there's got to be a typo here.
There are no rich democrats.

             - D. M.


JMW wrote: Watch out, Rush


> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > LIBERAL RADIO IS PLANNED BY RICH GROUP OF DEMOCRATS
> > By JIM RUTENBERG
> >
> > A group of wealthy Democratic donors is planning to start a liberal
> > radio
>

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:42:53 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:41:07 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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"The Music Man" last night?

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:50:49 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:48:57 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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             on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 02:08:55PM +0000
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Rashmi Murthy:
= steph:
=
= >I'd have to fish out the menu for you to tell you exactly.  We
= >went to Charlie Trotter's and had a late summer vegetable menu.
=
= No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
= the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
= The foodie mecca.
=

Then WTF is it doing in CHICAGO!

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bonniev:
= >That said, by far and away the most sophisticated meal I've ever
= >had was in Chicago.  Which is about as middle as it gets.
=
= I was going to exempt the large cities when I made my statement.  Jo
= understood.
=
=

But most of the people who live in the middle live in large
cities.  No fair.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 10:57:04 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:54:58 +0000
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Alyce:

>This is so funny to me. Here I am, from Chicago, but never have heard of
>Charlie Trotter. I see myself as being totally out of it now--neither an
>East Coast sophisticate nor a Chicago one.

How long is it since you lived in Chicago? Charlie Trotter's is about
10 years old so maybe it opened after you left. There's no reason
to expect you to keep up with everything Chicago, right?

-rashmi, no idea what the happenin' place in Bangalore is

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:00:14 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:58:28 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:04:46 AM, you wrote:
> I'm a Has Been.

And how does that make you feel?

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:01:39 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:59:20 +0000
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Karen [re Charlie Trotter's]:

>I'd never heard of it before--but damn, I think Tushar should
>take me to dinner there next year!

Tushar, start saving NOW.

CT is known for a fabulous wine cellar and great vegetarian food.
He's not limited to veg but supposedly makes them delicious.

How was it, steph?

-rashmi

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:03:19 -0500
From: Karen Kay <karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:59:20 +0000, Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>Tushar, start saving NOW.

And he should probably make reservations now.

Karen

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:04:10 +0000
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>= >I'd have to fish out the menu for you to tell you exactly.  We
>= >went to Charlie Trotter's and had a late summer vegetable menu.
>=
>= No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
>= the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
>= The foodie mecca.

>Then WTF is it doing in CHICAGO!

I dunno, saving on rent? Running away from Nobu?
Sophisticating the midwestern palate?

-calvin


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:14:42 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Watch out, Rush
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:12:07 +0000
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D.M:

>John . . there's got to be a typo here.
>There are no rich democrats.

One of the reasons it's bound to be a mega-flop.

-rashmi



_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:16:55 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:14:59 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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bonniev:
= >No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
= >the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
= >The foodie mecca.
= >-rashmi
=
= The best restaurant in the country seems to have been agreed upon.  It is
= in the Napa Valley.  The French Laundry.
=
=

Eh, no.

http://www.jamesbeard.org/awards/2002/awards.php?year=2002&category=3#33

Charlie Trotter's did win last year for best service.  French
Laundry's no where to be seen in last year's awards.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:32:36 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:32:08 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: housekeeping IMFTATL
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> In a message dated 02/16/2003 11:26:36 PM Central Standard Time,
> verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

> Thank you. That's fairly high but not insanely so. Perhaps next time
> I'm feeling flush.
>
> Check Wal-Mart; it might be cheaper there.

Not sure where there is one around here, but I'll check. Thanks.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:34:03 2003
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>        Yes.  Average restaurant food out here really does taste bad.
>  In NE, average restaurant food is usually quite good.  My
>theory is that there is greater competition -- if your food
>is lousy, you close up pretty quick.
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman

I think it's because people who grew up eating cream of mushroom soup and
iceberg lettuce don't really understand that there are better foods.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:34:21 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:31:59 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> "The Music Man" last night?

Jeff did. Do you want his critique?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:36:05 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:33:38 -0800
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
X-EXP32-SerialNo: 00003427, 00003483
Subject: RE: Party Report
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>===== Original Message From English Language Discussion Group
<WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> =====
>>At 10:00 AM 2/16/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>>
>>>Whew.  Totally worth it.  I laughed all night.
>>
>>Fun, but I'm glad I don't have to do that anymore. I loved waking up and
>>finding kids all over my living room floor though.
>
><nod> I still remember the time that Miles showed up on no notice
>with 12 or so of his classmates (they'd been in the city looking at a
>museum or something), looking for a place to spend the night. We put
>the girls down in one room and the boys packed like sardines (many
>more boys than girls) in the other. It was lots of fun, in a
>dorm-mother kind of a way.
>
>I believe that was the night that our household topped its previous
>record for number of people under one roof, with 17. (We equalled it
>a time or two after that.) This was back when we were living in the
>big house on 41st Ave. -- the duplex would have a hard time housing
>17 people, although I suppose if we used both flats we could have.
>Here I could probably house 34 people as long as some of them were
>willing to sleep on concrete floors.
>
>Janet

I remember one kid hiding from me in the morning because he thought I might be
mad.  LOL.  Lorinda laughed at him, too.  He was gay.

Betty

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:37:55 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Janet
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>Rita Chapman wrote:
> >         Here's a real downside of a high pain tolerance -- I've been
> > pissing blood for two days, and I'm not in any pain at all.
>
>Cranberry juice is good for that. I am alarmed. Why are you calm?
>alyce

I'm alarmed at Rita's high blood pressure.  I didn't even know you get
headaches from high blood pressure.  How high is it, Rita?   Please take
care of yourself.   Your students need you, not to mention your husband and
daughter.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:36:55 -0800
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: RE: Treasure hunting
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>===== Original Message From English Language Discussion Group
<WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> =====
>Betty wrote:
>>
>> Wow! What a find. Congratulations.
>       ^^^^^^^^^^^
>Why did you steal my words?  Never mind that I wrote them hours after
>you wrote yours, but I am confident that you had precognition of what I
>was going to say.
>
>--
> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I know all.
It's beautiful in Monterey. I found this internet cafe with high speed
connection after dropping Larry off at the golf course. I didnt bring my bike
this trip so I'm thinking of going to the aquarium. I haven't been in several
years. We went out on a whale watching boat yesterday and saw hundreds, maybe
thousands, of dolphins all around us. Totally cool.  The whales were further
away but I saw a big tale and the blowing.

Hope Tushar is safe and didn't get trampled.
No snow on this coast.

Betty

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:41:44 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:39:20 -0800
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: RE: Max the wonder dog
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>===== Original Message From English Language Discussion Group
<WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> =====
>> Mold is a huge problem where I live in Texas. I absolutely live
>> in fear of it. I don't know that they have mold-sniffing dogs,
>> though. Max (and your husband) is really a treasure.
>>
>Max is quite extra-ordinary. We did not know that he could sniff mold.
>Actually it is probably the mildew he was smelling. He is extremely
>protective of me. We originally got him because of a different quality that
>he possesses. He is a seizure dog. He can predict my seizures before they
>happen so I can get into a safe place. It was only after he was with us for
>about a month and started wanting to help me in other ways that we took him
>back for more training. He gets my chair for me when I want to go out. He
>has a backpack to carry things. He opens doors, herds the ferrets (no mean
>task, lots of nipping involved), pulls the phone caddy to me when it rings,
>and pulls me in my house chair when I don't have the power chair available.
>
>Dogs are wonderful creatures.
>
>Jo
Much more helpful that cats!

Betty

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:42:07 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:41:37 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> bonniev wrote:
> >  Personally, I've found that one area of sophistication that the
> > middle of this country seems to lack is decent food and drink.
>
> Does sophisticated = decent?  What exactly is sophisticated food and
> drink -- as in what makes one consider one kind of food or drink
> <sophisticated> and another kind not?  (My questions are serious ones.
> I've heard people talk about sophisticated tastes in food/drink but have
> never been sure what makes something sophisticated.  Is it a matter of
> how long it takes to prepare it or of whether the ingredients are
> <exotic> or what?)

Both of those to some degree -- elegance of presentation is part of it too.
But to me, what distinguishes sophisticated food from mundane food (BTW, I
love both) is that the flavor and texture you get when you first put the
food in your mouth are different from the various flavors and textures as
you explore that first bite and each subsequent bite. It's food that someone
has thought about, planned to be a sort of gustatory journey rather than a
simple way of fueling the body.

An example might be canned tuna fish vs. seared ahi. Basically the same
fish, and seared ahi is quick and easy to make, hardly more difficult than
opening a can. But with the ahi you get the flavor of whatever's been rubbed
on the outside, and the flavor and texture of the part near the outside
that's cooked through, and entirely different flavor, texture and
temperature of the rare part in the middle.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:42:35 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:40:14 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> How long is it since you lived in Chicago?

1968-69. No, there is no reason for me to keep up with Chicgao. I
thought Charlie Trotter was very old because it was so respected and
well known.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:43:06 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
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Subject: The Pianist
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It was sold out last night in Monterey so we went out to dinner instead. Fresh
cod.

Betty

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:43:49 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:43:21 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Please review this property listing found
         onwww.latter-blum.com. From: www.latter-blum.com
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> Janet Hardy wrote:
> >
> > >No maintenance to
> > >worry about.
> >
> > Realtor-speak for "condo."
>
> But it wasn't a condo.  I remember seeing that in one of those ads and
> wondering about it.  Can't remember now which one except that I don't
> think it was one of the ones I was most interested in.  All of them have
> small yards, a definite plus to me, but none were totally yardless -- as
> in NO maintenance.  And I don't remember seeing mention of an
> association fee, although I might have missed that.  Iow, the "no
> maintenance" might mean that the neighborhood is condo-like in the sense
> of paying a fee for things like a communal yard-care person or house
> painters or whatever.  I would prefer not to get involved in that kind
> of arrangement.

It might not be a condo on the sense of sharing a building with others like
it, but it might well be a townhouse or whatever where some community
facilities are shared and the homeowners' association takes care of things
like exterior painting and landscape maintenance. Sometimes these have
things like swimming pools and exercise rooms, which can be nice. The only
reason I haven't considered one is the lack of privacy.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:47:15 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:44:48 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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As so often happens, things on two lists coincide. Here we have a short
discourse on middle America and the coasts from Bibliomania  from this
morning:
---
FB and I realize that we are the bread, not the MEAT, of the AMERICAN
SANDWICH.

And we are (I greatly fear) the thin, stale, 3-day-old,
rye-pumpernickel-oatmeal-3/grain stuff rather than good
ol' AMERICAN WONDERBREAD

We are residents of the elitist, coastal, university-
linked-leftist america, rather than the MIDDLE-LANDLOCKED-
MEAT-IN-THE-SANDWICH-TRUE-AMERICA.
-------------
alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:47:30 2003
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From: "Alan Wild" <awild@uri.edu>
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Subject: snow report...
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:45:27 -0500
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'k... we have about 6" on the ground, on top of the previous 4 that hung
around... right now we're all set for the long haul into the afternoon of
tomorrow when it's all suppose to start to end.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 11:48:15 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:36:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, bonniev wrote:

>I think it's because people who grew up eating cream of mushroom soup and
>iceberg lettuce don't really understand that there are better foods.

Could be. OTOH, I made a cream of portobello soup Saturday night that is
one of the best soups I have ever eaten. Ingredients:

2 c. heavy cream
2 c. milk
6 oz. portobello caps
etc. (onion, butter, thyme, pepper, salt, marsala or other
liquor, optional blue cheese)

Bethany

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:55:15 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 11:52:29 AM, you wrote:
> bonniev wrote:
>>
>> I think it's because people who grew up eating cream of mushroom soup and
>> iceberg lettuce don't really understand that there are better foods.

> There are better foods?

I think I mentioned that Ligniere made me a wonderful soup that
started with cream of mushroom soup as a base. It was on sale
when I went shopping the other day and I almost bought him some,
but I decided I didn't want to touch it.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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> > I'm a Has Been.
>
>And how does that make you feel?
>Karen

It makes me feel grateful.  I think god every day that I escaped the rowing
cult.   The thought of a Concept II erg lurking in your house has given me
occasional nightmares.  Daily contact with you, Karen, is as close as I
ever need to come to the rowing world.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:11:24 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
> I don't think I've ever been in a town that
> didn't have sidewalks.  Like, how small
> are these towns?

Germantown has 2,000 souls. We have a little bit of sidewalk, but not
much. If we ever get some federal money, we might get more. We did get a
little bit a couple of years ago in connection with a sewer project, but
where we do have sidewalk, it is mostly on one side of the street and
not the other (except for one block). The "business section" of G'town
is only a block plus a couple of buildings. Then, a little way down is
the post office, and beyond that the school. There is a sidewalk in the
post office block, but it ends before the school.

alyce

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:15:16 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:02:37 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>>        They're being sucked back to the midwest!  They'll experience
>>some humdinger culture shock, I tell you.
>>
>
> "Back to"? Neither of them has been there, as far as I know -- Miles went
> with me to Chicago for BEA in 1996 or thereabouts, but as mentioned earlier,
> Chicago is Midwestern only by virtue of geography.


        Aren't you originally midwest?  Why would I think that?


> Yes, I think the culture shock thing will be interesting to watch (if they
> do indeed decide to go that way) -- although I'd imagine theater grad school
> would insulate one a bit.


        Not enough to make having a mom like you seem quite as normal
as it is in SF.  No offense intended or value judgement
there -- just an observation.  You can't even keep a dirty
magazine store open around here.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:18:09 2003
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Doris Markland wrote:
> Hmm.  Wouldn't be surprised.

He's been approached, but not by this current wealthy group of
Democracts. Turned it down, because it ties one down too much and he has
things to do, places to go, etc.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:48:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 11:31:59 AM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> "The Music Man" last night?

> Jeff did. Do you want his critique?

Sure. I was just curious if all the 'Chicago' fans would have
watched it. I taped it, and while I haven't seen 'Chicago', this
is definitely worthy of a theatrical release, IMHO.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:50:26 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
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> >No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
> >the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
> >The foodie mecca.
> >-rashmi
>
> The best restaurant in the country seems to have been agreed upon.  It is
> in the Napa Valley.  The French Laundry.

My mother really really wants to go there. We've agreed to try to do it next
time she comes up here.

Janet

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>Sophistocated food =
>
>Less on your plate, more on your bill.
>                - D. M.

And that expresses another Midwestern value:  if the steak isn't so huge
that it hangs over the plate, you've been cheated.   That said, I actually
like eating out in Florence, Wisconsin.   It's all comfort food for me from
the iceberg lettuce salad to the Friday fish fry.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:52:30 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Bitch clothes
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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>         They're being sucked back to the midwest!  They'll experience
> some humdinger culture shock, I tell you.

"Back to"? Neither of them has been there, as far as I know -- Miles went
with me to Chicago for BEA in 1996 or thereabouts, but as mentioned earlier,
Chicago is Midwestern only by virtue of geography.

Yes, I think the culture shock thing will be interesting to watch (if they
do indeed decide to go that way) -- although I'd imagine theater grad school
would insulate one a bit.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:52:29 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> I think it's because people who grew up eating cream of mushroom soup and
> iceberg lettuce don't really understand that there are better foods.

There are better foods?

alyce
>
>     --bonniev


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:52:48 -0500
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>bonniev:
>= >That said, by far and away the most sophisticated meal I've ever
>= >had was in Chicago.  Which is about as middle as it gets.
>=
>= I was going to exempt the large cities when I made my statement.  Jo
>= understood.
>
>But most of the people who live in the middle live in large
>cities.  No fair.

There's some truth to that.  That's why Maine got to be the second most
rural state in the union after Vermont.  We don't have any large
cities.   The little population that we have live in small, sidewalkless
towns or out in the country.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:53:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 11:49:29 AM, you wrote:
> It's all comfort food for me from the iceberg lettuce salad to
> the Friday fish fry.

Nothing would induce me to let iceberg lettuce pass my lips
again.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 09:55:58 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Janet
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> > Ever hear a group of kids debating the question of what would be the
> > coolest torture? Or playing "betcha can't tie me up so I can't get
> > away"?
>
>         What they're playing with is the idea of control, which is
> normal for childhood (that's what the terrible two's are all
> about, after all -- although I personally found three to be
> insane).

Of course they are: me too. Better to play with it than to take it
seriously, IMO.

I will resist the temptation to theorize that BDSM
> is just being stuck in a psychological stage ala Freud.

If recognizing that control, power, strong sensation and helplessness can be
voluntary sources of pleasure rather than mandatory sources of unhappiness
is being stuck a psychological stage, I'm quite happy to stay stuck.

>         Here's a real downside of a high pain tolerance -- I've been
> pissing blood for two days, and I'm not in any pain at all.

That is indeed a downside. Have you made an appointment to see someone? If
it's a UTI they can clear it up with sulfa in a day or two, and if not, you
need to find out what it is pronto.

I know I'm being obvious here, but: have you been eating beets? I've seen
people have a couple of scares when they pee beet-colored urine.

Janet

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>>     I don't understand this.  I *feel*.  I *care*.  Don't my emotions count?
>
>        There, there, dear.  Of course they do.
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman

No they don't.   When you prick JMW, he does not bleed.  He is the one
wordsler who does not need his feelings validated.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 11:58:47 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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bonniev wrote:

>> Rita Chapman wrote:
>> >         Here's a real downside of a high pain tolerance -- I've been
>> > pissing blood for two days, and I'm not in any pain at all.
>>
>> Cranberry juice is good for that. I am alarmed. Why are you calm?
>> alyce
>
>
> I'm alarmed at Rita's high blood pressure.  I didn't even know you get
> headaches from high blood pressure.  How high is it, Rita?   Please take
> care of yourself.   Your students need you, not to mention your husband and
> daughter.


        About 150's/100.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:02:21 -0600
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> There's some truth to that.  That's why Maine got to be the second
most
> rural state in the union after Vermont.  We don't have any large
> cities.   The little population that we have live in small,
sidewalkless
> towns or out in the country.
>
>
>     --bonniev

I don't think I've ever been in a town that
didn't have sidewalks.  Like, how small
are these towns?

           - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:01:01 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Is this for real?
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> This month he is making beautiful hand planes. I don't know what I would
do
> with one, but they are so gorgeous I want one. He will probably sell them
on
> eBay. There are people out there who will pay literally hundreds of
dollars
> for a well-made handplane. I suppose some of the menfolk on this list
would
> know about such things. Although his last batch sold mostly to wimmen. Go
> figure... And they were buying for themselves.

My good friend Cheryl is a serious woodworker who prefers to work with
non-power tools; she'd love such a handplane.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:00:56 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 11:54:50 AM, you wrote:
> The thought of a Concept II erg lurking in your house has given me
> occasional nightmares.

LOL. It's not like you can even see it, or I talk about it when I
use it.

> Daily contact with you, Karen, is as close as I ever need to
> come to the rowing world.

I think Clyde is far closer to the rowing world.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:03:54 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Bitch clothes
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:35:29 AM, you wrote:
> >         They're being sucked back to the midwest!  They'll experience
> > some humdinger culture shock, I tell you.
>
> I dunno; Miles has been living in Irvine. That could prepare you
> for the midwest.

True -- Orange County has the culture of the midwest if not the climate.

Ben is trying to set up a video gaming tournament for this summer. All the
other people involved want to do it in Fresno, which is cheap and
accessible, and Ben totally hates the idea. He tried to talk them into San
Luis Obispo but got voted down. (Fresno, for non-Californian reference, is a
Central Valley town that is as close to the Midwest as California gets, only
hotter.)

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:03:10 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:02:21 PM, you wrote:
> I don't think I've ever been in a town that
> didn't have sidewalks.  Like, how small
> are these towns?

It depends on the town more than anything. I don't have a
sidewalk on my side of the street where I live now. Where I lived
in Honolulu didn't have sidewalks, and that was 10 minutes from
Waikiki.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:01:44 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> Sure. I was just curious if all the 'Chicago' fans would have
> watched it. I taped it, and while I haven't seen 'Chicago', this
> is definitely worthy of a theatrical release, IMHO.

What does "Chicago" have to do with "Music Man"? Please answer as I am
interested to know.

In any case, Jeff watched because they had a young person staying
overnight. He was amused that the population of River City has become
largely black, Asian, and Hispanic. He said that Matthew Broderick did a
good job, but lacked the con-man lurking under his skin that Robert
Preston had. In short, he liked it, but he liked the "real 'Music Man'"
much more. There is no one like Robert Preston, of course.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:03:47 -0500
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>CT is known for a fabulous wine cellar and great vegetarian food.
>He's not limited to veg but supposedly makes them delicious.
>-rashmi

Speaking of vegetarian food, I witnessed a good thing last night.  We ate
out at Mache.   They were doing a very nice business for a Sunday
night.   Elizabeth and James were working the front.  Maureen was alone in
the kitchen.   There were about four couples and a singlet dining.  At
7:30, which in the off season is sort of late to be showing up for dinner,
a couple came in without reservations.   Elizabeth greeted them and went
back to the kitchen to ascertain if Maureen was willing to have them
seated.  Yup.

They were at a table near us.   When James gave them their menus, he
apologized that the kitchen was out of the one vegetarian entree, a
lasagna.   They allowed as how that was a problem for them because they
were, in fact, vegetarians.   He asked if they could eat fish.  Nope.  He
asked if they could eat cheese.  Yup.  He went back to the kitchen to
consult with Maureen.

He came back to their table and said Maureen would make them a nice
pasta.   She's a saint.  And, wow, it did look like a nice pasta.  It was
long, crinkly pasta with lots of good stuff on it including wilted spinach.

We stayed on until everyone else had left.  James brought Clyde a Sambuco
as a birthday present.  Then we sat at the bar for a bit and talked with
Maureen, Elizabeth, James, and a friend of theirs who had been drinking
wine at the bar.   It was fun.  They had done a great business all
weekend.   Friday was Valentines' and they were booked.  Saturday they had
a table of six when another table of seven walked in without reservations.

    --bonniev

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bonniev wrote:
> And that expresses another Midwestern value:  if the steak isn't so huge
> that it hangs over the plate, you've been cheated.

Yes. Although, my father, a midwesterner, sent his plate back to the
kitchen more than once when there was too much on it. Waiters were
reeling in shock. I inherited his horror at having too much food at
once.

alyce

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From: "Anne Toal" <toalanne@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this noob for real?
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:07:57 -0600
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>I feel your pain, John. I really do.

Yo, noob, chill thyself.

-aht

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:28:56 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: Watch out, Rush
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:12:50 -0600
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>
> >John . . there's got to be a typo here.
> >There are no rich democrats.
>
> One of the reasons it's bound to be a mega-flop.
>
> -rashmi

Nah.  They've got the money.  They just
don't have the charm.

Wait.  Wait a minute.  Let's see.  Where
could they find someone who is a compulsive
and long-winded talker, (relatively) good-looking,
loaded with theories, and out of a job?

Hmm.  Wouldn't be surprised.

             - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:09:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Did anyone see
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:01:44 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Sure. I was just curious if all the 'Chicago' fans would have
>> watched it. I taped it, and while I haven't seen 'Chicago', this
>> is definitely worthy of a theatrical release, IMHO.

> What does "Chicago" have to do with "Music Man"? Please answer as I am
> interested to know.

Same director--which makes a huge difference. This guy is so
good, I hope he does a zillion more movies.

> He was amused that the population of River City has become
> largely black, Asian, and Hispanic.

I noticed that--with the same attitude.

> He said that Matthew Broderick did a good job, but lacked the
> con-man lurking under his skin that Robert Preston had.

Yes--but he was still believable, just in a different way.

> In short, he liked it, but he liked the "real 'Music Man'"
> much more. There is no one like Robert Preston, of course.

Of course.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:11:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:03:54 PM, you wrote:
>> Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:35:29 AM, you wrote:
>> >         They're being sucked back to the midwest!  They'll experience
>> > some humdinger culture shock, I tell you.
>>
>> I dunno; Miles has been living in Irvine. That could prepare you
>> for the midwest.

> True -- Orange County has the culture of the midwest if not the climate.

That's what I was thinking of. Nothing can prepare you for the
climate.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:05:40 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> I went shopping the other day and I almost bought him some,

He's back?

alyce

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:12:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:05:40 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I went shopping the other day and I almost bought him some,

> He's back?

I thought I said. Yes, he's been back for nearly a month.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:13:42 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Please review this property listing found
         onwww.latter-blum.com. From: www.latter-blum.com
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> Janet:
> >The only reason I haven't considered one is the lack of privacy.
>
> ...and don't forget the possibility of creepazoid neighbors.

My concern is that they would consider *me* a creepazoid neighbor.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 10:17:20 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Bitch clothes
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> >>        They're being sucked back to the midwest!  They'll experience
> >>some humdinger culture shock, I tell you.
> >>
> >
> > "Back to"? Neither of them has been there, as far as I know -- Miles
went
> > with me to Chicago for BEA in 1996 or thereabouts, but as mentioned
earlier,
> > Chicago is Midwestern only by virtue of geography.
>
>         Aren't you originally midwest?  Why would I think that?

Dunno. I grew up in Devon, PA, very near where Alec lives (the same area
from which both Rashmi and Marie hail); my family moved to Southern
California when I was 13, and I've been in California ever since.

My mother grew up in Highland Park, Illinois, but I don't think I've ever
mentioned that here.

> > Yes, I think the culture shock thing will be interesting to watch (if
they
> > do indeed decide to go that way) -- although I'd imagine theater grad
school
> > would insulate one a bit.
>
>         Not enough to make having a mom like you seem quite as normal
> as it is in SF.  No offense intended or value judgement
> there -- just an observation.  You can't even keep a dirty
> magazine store open around here.

It doesn't seem all that normal even here, and certainly not in Irvine. But
I don't think anyone here holds it against him, and I'm not sure that would
be true there.

Janet

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Did anyone see
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>Sure. I was just curious if all the 'Chicago' fans would have
>watched it. I taped it, and while I haven't seen 'Chicago', this
>is definitely worthy of a theatrical release, IMHO.
>Karen,

It not cross my mind to think that because I loved 'Chicago' I might enjoy
the Music Man.  That's comparing the exotic to the bland, the Big City to
the small town, the energetic to the mere plodder.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:16:00 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I thought I said. Yes, he's been back for nearly a month.

Oh, good. Maybe when I was in hospital.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:28:58 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Did anyone see
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:20:38 -0600
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 He was amused that the population of River City has become
> largely black, Asian, and Hispanic.

> alyce

Pretty realistic, actually.  This small town has
moved in that direction almost overnight.
Not a majority, of course, but clearly visible.

Did you read recently that the birth rate in
California just now indicates more Hispanics
being born than whites (do I want to say caucasians?).

                 - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:18:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:14:57 PM, you wrote:
>>Sure. I was just curious if all the 'Chicago' fans would have
>>watched it. I taped it, and while I haven't seen 'Chicago', this
>>is definitely worthy of a theatrical release, IMHO.
>>Karen,

> It not cross my mind to think that because I loved 'Chicago' I might enjoy
> the Music Man.  That's comparing the exotic to the bland, the Big City to
> the small town, the energetic to the mere plodder.

Bonnie,

You are insane.

Fondly,
Karen

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:20:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:20:38 PM, you wrote:
> Pretty realistic, actually.  This small town has
> moved in that direction almost overnight.
> Not a majority, of course, but clearly visible.

And do they still wear 19th century clothing?

> Did you read recently that the birth rate in
> California just now indicates more Hispanics
> being born than whites (do I want to say caucasians?).

Yawn.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:28:58 2003
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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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> > The thought of a Concept II erg lurking in your house has given me
> > occasional nightmares.
>
>LOL. It's not like you can even see it, or I talk about it when I
>use it.

It still gives me an involuntary shudder to think I am talking to someone
who is sitting in close proximity to an erg.

>I think Clyde is far closer to the rowing world.
>Karen,

Well, that's true.  He still communicates with "those people".


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:28:59 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:23:46 -0600
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> Germantown has 2,000 souls. We have a little bit of sidewalk, but not
> much. If we ever get some federal money, we might get more. We did get
a
> little bit a couple of years ago in connection with a sewer project,
but
> where we do have sidewalk, it is mostly on one side of the street and
> not the other (except for one block). The "business section" of G'town
> is only a block plus a couple of buildings. Then, a little way down is
> the post office, and beyond that the school. There is a sidewalk in
the
> post office block, but it ends before the school.
>
> alyce
>
> alyce

I grew up in a town with a pop. of 325.
Most of the small towns around were
about the same.  They all had sidewalks
throughout the town.

Gol, the kids have to rollerskate on them!

                     - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:24:31 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:20:53 PM, you wrote:
> It still gives me an involuntary shudder to think I am talking to someone
> who is sitting in close proximity to an erg.

Does it comfort you to know that it's at the diametrically
opposite end of the house?

> Well, that's true.  He still communicates with "those people".

Yep.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:28:59 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this noob for real?
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:26:24 -0500
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>From: Anne Toal <toalanne@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Yo, noob

Is this a coinage?

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:28:52 2003
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Janet:
>The only reason I haven't considered one is the lack of privacy.

...and don't forget the possibility of creepazoid neighbors.

--
Richard 12:14             give no offense

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:28:58 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:19:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: report from NYC
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:16:00 PM, you wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I thought I said. Yes, he's been back for nearly a month.

> Oh, good. Maybe when I was in hospital.

I honestly don't remember. He's been cranky since he came back.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:29:54 2003
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>I don't think I've ever been in a town that
>didn't have sidewalks.  Like, how small
>are these towns?           - D. M.

Bar Harbor has less than 3000 people.  It does have sidewalks in the
village proper although we don't have any in our neighborhood.   Southwest
Harbor, on the other side of the island, has 1200 people.  There are
sidewalks on the main street and maybe one side street.  Somesville and
Bernard, on the island, do not have sidewalks.  Their population is less
than 1200 but I don't know what.   The counties in way northern Maine don't
even have names.   They have numbers.  I doubt they have sidewalks.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:31:40 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Did anyone see
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:33:23 -0600
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> Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:20:38 PM, you wrote:
> > Pretty realistic, actually.  This small town has
> > moved in that direction almost overnight.
> > Not a majority, of course, but clearly visible.
>
> And do they still wear 19th century clothing?

Don't understand the question.  Who?
What does 19th century clothing look like?
Why are we discussing clothing?

                     - D. M.

>
> Karen,
> Not a practical-minded weasel
>

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:36:04 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:31:31 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> Pretty realistic, actually.

Well, not really, given that the play is a period piece. Even if there
are reasons to give non-white actors jobs, it was amusing.

 > Did you read recently that the birth rate in
> California just now indicates more Hispanics
> being born than whites (do I want to say caucasians?).

Yes. Tomorrow the world.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:35:10 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Did anyone see
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:33:23 PM, you wrote:
>> Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:20:38 PM, you wrote:
>> > Pretty realistic, actually.  This small town has
>> > moved in that direction almost overnight.
>> > Not a majority, of course, but clearly visible.
>>
>> And do they still wear 19th century clothing?

> Don't understand the question.  Who?
> What does 19th century clothing look like?
> Why are we discussing clothing?

Because we're talking about "The Music Man". Midwestern
populations are diverse now, but they weren't diverse then. The
population of the mythical River City is a 21st century fantasy.
Your assertion that it's realistic is asinine.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:33:14 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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            <5.1.0.14.0.20030217000040.00a2c710@pop3.norton.antivirus>
            <3E50C73E.88EE2E76@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> I grew up in a town with a pop. of 325.
> Most of the small towns around were
> about the same.  They all had sidewalks
> throughout the town.

Just shows that middle America is superior to the east, I guess.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:39:18 2003
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Message-ID: <000401c2d6b4$1958c2e0$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Did anyone see
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:40:52 -0600
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----- Original Message -----
From: "alyce cresap" <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: Did anyone see


> Doris Markland wrote:
> > >
> > Pretty realistic, actually.
>
> Well, not really, given that the play is a period piece. Even if there
> are reasons to give non-white actors jobs, it was amusing.
>
>  > Did you read recently that the birth rate in
> > California just now indicates more Hispanics
> > being born than whites (do I want to say caucasians?).
>
> Yes. Tomorrow the world.
>
> alyce
>

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:41:03 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Did anyone see
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:42:46 -0600
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> > >
> > Pretty realistic, actually.
>
> Well, not really, given that the play is a period piece. >

> alyce

I hadn't thought of that.  True.
That would be strange.

 I used to know huge parts of that script.
One of my kids played the little red-headed
boy once and was young enough that I
often attended rehearsals.

            - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:44:44 2003
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Message-ID: <000e01c2d6b4$e0d1d320$460332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Did anyone see
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:46:26 -0600
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> Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:33:23 PM, you wrote:
> >> Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:20:38 PM, you wrote:
> >> > Pretty realistic, actually.  This small town has
> >> > moved in that direction almost overnight.
> >> > Not a majority, of course, but clearly visible.
> >>
> >> And do they still wear 19th century clothing?
>
> > Don't understand the question.  Who?
> > What does 19th century clothing look like?
> > Why are we discussing clothing?
>
> Because we're talking about "The Music Man". Midwestern
> populations are diverse now, but they weren't diverse then. The
> population of the mythical River City is a 21st century fantasy.
> Your assertion that it's realistic is asinine.
>
> Karen,

Okay.  I'm with it now.  I agree, it would
seem strange to see the new culture in
the old setting.  Wasn't thinking.

                 - D. M.

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:47:30 -0600
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> Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> > I grew up in a town with a pop. of 325.
> > Most of the small towns around were
> > about the same.  They all had sidewalks
> > throughout the town.
>
> Just shows that middle America is superior to the east, I guess.
>
> alyce

Certainly not.  Just more sophistocated.

           - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:55:49 2003
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> >He was amused that the population of River City has become
> > largely black, Asian, and Hispanic.
> > alyce
>
>Pretty realistic, actually.  This small town has
>moved in that direction almost overnight.
>Not a majority, of course, but clearly visible.
>                  - D. M.

Not true in the small town of Bar Harbor.  Still Lily White.


    --bonniev

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>Does it comfort you to know that it's at the diametrically
>opposite end of the house?
>Karen,

Yes, it does.  Thank you for telling me.


    --bonniev

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bonniev wrote:
> Not true in the small town of Bar Harbor.  Still Lily White.

Germantown has a wealthy black surgeon, wife and daughter. They are the
only non-lilies.


alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 12:59:38 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:56:57 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Elaine M Brennan <elaine.personal.lists@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Feels like 1996...
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At 08:57 AM 2/17/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > Sure feels like the "Blizzard of the Century" all over again. Difference
> > is it's been sustained over a longer period this time. I looked but can't
> > find snow accumulations for this area. Looks like 18" with another 10"
> > expected tomorrow. The wind's really picked up and it looks nasty
> > outside. I'm not looking forward to digging out.
> >
>
>It is amazing. Our car is lost in the snow.

the snow finally began hitting Boston about 3 hours ago --  having been
here for a con, the group of us who are still hanging around immediately
declared that we were now holding "Snowcon", and since we're in the
Sheraton attached to the Hynes Convention Center, we anticipate no problems
feeding and entertaining ourselves without going outside until things get
somewhat nicer  (the hotel's giving us a "stranded traveler" rate that's
lower than the con rate, so the financial pain is *slightly* reduced).

And during the con I got to watch one writer dump a bottle of Coke on
another writer's head (richly deserved in the opinion of many of the
on-lookers).  I'm easily entertained these days...

--Elaine

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 13:00:02 2003
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Doris Markland wrote:
> > I grew up in a town with a pop. of 325.
> > Most of the small towns around were
> > about the same.  They all had sidewalks
> > throughout the town.
>
>Just shows that middle America is superior to the east, I guess.
>alyce

Middle America also has larger yards with houses set back nicely from the
street.  When our forefathers settled the East Coast, they hadn't yet fully
realized that land was limitless in the New World.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 13:02:19 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:59:41 -0500
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>
> And during the con I got to watch one writer dump a bottle of Coke on
> another writer's head (richly deserved in the opinion of many of the
> on-lookers).  I'm easily entertained these days...
>
> --Elaine

That would never happen here!

(Syracuse is a Pepsi-only campus)


BrPPaul R. Barfoot
Special Collections
Syracuse University Library

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 13:22:43 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Watch out, Rush
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:20:33 +0000
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D.M:

>Nah.  They've got the money.  They just
>don't have the charm.

Nah, they (dems) lack the killer instinct.

>Wait.  Wait a minute.  Let's see.  Where
>could they find someone who is a compulsive
>and long-winded talker, (relatively) good-looking,
>loaded with theories, and out of a job?

Oh.my.gawd. Never thought of him. That'd
be a sure flop, imo.

-rashmi



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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 13:23:11 2003
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From: "Anne Toal" <toalanne@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Is this marieeber for real?
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:21:04 -0600
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>Is this a coinage?

About 2 cents' worth. :-) Common usage in the gaming world.

-a



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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:09:48 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:07:56 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030217210756.B9047@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 10:03:56AM -0600
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Karen Kay:
= Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:08:55 AM, you wrote:
= > steph:
= >>I'd have to fish out the menu for you to tell you exactly.  We
= >>went to Charlie Trotter's and had a late summer vegetable menu.
=
= > No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
= > the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
= > The foodie mecca.
=
= I'd never heard of it before--but damn, I think Tushar should
= take me to dinner there next year!
=

I think when you get your new job, and have both the money to pay
for your plane ticket and the paid vacation time to visit
Tushie-baby, that you, my dear, will buy him dinner.  Gladly!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:10:08 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:59:46 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030217205946.A9047@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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Janet Hardy:
=
= My mother grew up in Highland Park, Illinois, but I don't think I've ever
= mentioned that here.
=

It sounds familiar, as I lived in HP from 1969 to 1976 - grade
school and some of junior high.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:12:42 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:10:50 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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             karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 12:03:19PM -0500
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Karen Kay:
= On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:59:20 +0000, Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
= >Tushar, start saving NOW.
=
= And he should probably make reservations now.
=

Na, just a couple of months ahead of time.  You don't need to go
on a Saturday, do you?

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:13:24 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030217201324.GD24552@pobox.com>
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02003-02-16 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >Sunday, February 16, 2003, 9:03:53 PM, you wrote:
> >> Which breaks Hardy's First Law of Clothing: Thou shalt not wear
> >> that which makes me feel like a jerk.
> >
> >No one can wear anything that makes you feel like a jerk?
>
> Sorry, should have been "thee." Was posting in a hurry -- Miles,
> Kristine, Ben & I met Frank for dinner in Pleasanton.
>
> Miles & Kristine's auditions apparently went well. Each got one
> callback -- Miles from University of Illinois Champaign/Urbana,
> Kristine from University of Ohio. Now they have to decide where they
> want to apply.

YaY!

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:15:24 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030217201524.GE24552@pobox.com>
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02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:03:54 PM, you wrote:

This is less useful than no attribution line. Why have it?

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:21:00 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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>Janet Hardy:
>=
>= My mother grew up in Highland Park, Illinois, but I don't think I've ever
>= mentioned that here.
>
>It sounds familiar, as I lived in HP from 1969 to 1976 - grade
>school and some of junior high.

Really? - I didn't know that.

My sister's partner also grew up in that area; she and my mom have
been playing "Did you know...?" However, Beth lived there *after* her
family wasn't the only Jewish family in Highland Park, whereas my
mother didn't.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:17:33 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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Janet Hardy wrote:


> I will resist the temptation to theorize that BDSM
>
>>is just being stuck in a psychological stage ala Freud.
>>
>
> If recognizing that control, power, strong sensation and helplessness can be
> voluntary sources of pleasure rather than mandatory sources of unhappiness
> is being stuck a psychological stage, I'm quite happy to stay stuck.


        I don't think kids see it as a positive-negative dichotomy.
In some cases they play with it to reassure themselves it is
there.  Not news to you, though, I'm sure.


>
>>        Here's a real downside of a high pain tolerance -- I've been
>>pissing blood for two days, and I'm not in any pain at all.
>>
>
> That is indeed a downside. Have you made an appointment to see someone? If
> it's a UTI they can clear it up with sulfa in a day or two, and if not, you
> need to find out what it is pronto.


        Not with sulfa, but yeah.  I'm going see Dr. Bean this afternoon.


> I know I'm being obvious here, but: have you been eating beets? I've seen
> people have a couple of scares when they pee beet-colored urine.


        LOL.  No, though I love beets.  I don't think I've eaten
anything red in at least a week, as a matter of fact.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:25:35 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:08:55 AM, you wrote:
> > steph:
> >>I'd have to fish out the menu for you to tell you exactly.  We
> >>went to Charlie Trotter's and had a late summer vegetable menu.
>
> > No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
> > the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
> > The foodie mecca.
>
> I'd never heard of it before--but damn, I think Tushar should
> take me to dinner there next year!

I'll start saving. Where do we go after that to eat?

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Janet
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:20:36 -0500
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>
>
>         About 150's/100.
>
>
>
> --
> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
> rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
> http://www.etext.org/~rita
>

Hopefully you are on beta-blockers,ACE inhibitors or a nice diuretic.
Relaxation techniques are fun too. Headaches are common with hypertension.


alec

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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:30:06 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Did anyone see
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 12:20:07 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
And do they still wear 19th century clothing?

>>

The costumes were from around 1910 - 1912.  Marian's
followed the slim up-and-down lines introduced in 1908
in France by Paul Poiret; while the more matronly women
were still wearing dresses with a bit more fullness in the
skirts.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:35:40 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
> The costumes were from around 1910 - 1912.  Marian's
> followed the slim up-and-down lines introduced in 1908
> in France by Paul Poiret; while the more matronly women
> were still wearing dresses with a bit more fullness in the
> skirts.

Right you are. The script says "early 1900s."

alyce

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I was browsing the Terraserver today and found that they haven't changed a lot of the images from years ago. The link below is the World Trade Center in 1994. I will be sorry when they update this picture.

http://terraserver.homeadvisor.msn.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=11&x=1458&y=11267&z=18&w=1

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:44:09 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:42:22 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:10:50 PM, you wrote:
> Na, just a couple of months ahead of time.  You don't need to go
> on a Saturday, do you?

Depends on when Christmas is.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:49:37 2003
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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Did anyone see
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 12:29:54 PM Central Standard Time,
dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM writes:

<<
What does 19th century clothing look like?

>>

Depends on the decade; each one had its own style.

The best book I've found about 19th-century clothing is
Englishwomen's Clothing of the 19th Century; each decade
is covered in detail.  Your library may still have it.  I spent
the Seventies studying the Akron Library's copy and the
other books the library had on 19th-century-women's clothing.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:41:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:07:56 PM, you wrote:
> I think when you get your new job, and have both the money to pay
> for your plane ticket and the paid vacation time to visit
> Tushie-baby, that you, my dear, will buy him dinner.  Gladly!

Boy, I do so not see this happening. Ever.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:49:37 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:43:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:15:24 PM, you wrote:

> 02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:03:54 PM, you wrote:

> This is less useful than no attribution line. Why have it?

It allows me to irritate you and Rashmi, and probably Steph.

Actually, I keep hoping to find a way to fix it, but so far, I
haven't.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:49:37 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:45:50 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:25:35 PM, you wrote:

> 02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:08:55 AM, you wrote:
>> > steph:
>> >>I'd have to fish out the menu for you to tell you exactly.  We
>> >>went to Charlie Trotter's and had a late summer vegetable menu.
>>
>> > No fair bringing Charlie Trotter into the contest! That's only like
>> > the most famous restaurant in the country, maybe the entire world.
>> > The foodie mecca.
>>
>> I'd never heard of it before--but damn, I think Tushar should
>> take me to dinner there next year!

> I'll start saving. Where do we go after that to eat?

Your Pakistani place.

But this seems like it would be plenty of food. Check the menu,
babycakes.

Karen,
Remembering chocolate mousse cake

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:49:37 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:38:12 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-17 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> Both of those to some degree -- elegance of presentation is part of it too.
> But to me, what distinguishes sophisticated food from mundane food (BTW, I
> love both) is that the flavor and texture you get when you first put the
> food in your mouth are different from the various flavors and textures as
> you explore that first bite and each subsequent bite. It's food that someone
> has thought about, planned to be a sort of gustatory journey rather than a
> simple way of fueling the body.
>
> An example might be canned tuna fish vs. seared ahi. Basically the same
> fish, and seared ahi is quick and easy to make, hardly more difficult than
> opening a can. But with the ahi you get the flavor of whatever's been rubbed
> on the outside, and the flavor and texture of the part near the outside
> that's cooked through, and entirely different flavor, texture and
> temperature of the rare part in the middle.

I can't believe how pretentious broke-asses can be--being rich is one
thing ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:51:38 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:49:46 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 02:41:55PM -0600
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Karen Kay:
= Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:07:56 PM, you wrote:
= > I think when you get your new job, and have both the money to pay
= > for your plane ticket and the paid vacation time to visit
= > Tushie-baby, that you, my dear, will buy him dinner.  Gladly!
=
= Boy, I do so not see this happening. Ever.
=
= Karen,
= Not a practical-minded weasel

Well, no wonder you're still out of a job then!  :-(

Ok, maybe not the paid vacation part, but the rest?  Really, do
you think you're going to be just scraping by the rest of your
life.  I'm far more optimistic about your prospects than you are
then.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:53:32 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:51:39 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 02:43:19PM -0600
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Karen Kay:
= Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:15:24 PM, you wrote:
=
= > 02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
= >> Monday, February 17, 2003, 12:03:54 PM, you wrote:
=
= > This is less useful than no attribution line. Why have it?
=
= It allows me to irritate you and Rashmi, and probably Steph.
=

no, I don't care that much.

= Actually, I keep hoping to find a way to fix it, but so far, I
= haven't.
=

So what mailer are you using anyway?  I didn't see it in your
headers.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 14:54:48 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:51:51 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> Boy, I do so not see this happening. Ever.

Positive thinking. Positive thinking. It is time for positive thinking.
Or are you positive it won't happen?

alyce

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Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> I can't believe how pretentious broke-asses can be--being rich is one
> thing ...

When you come to visit me, Tushar, you will have the finest tuna from a
can and all the iceberg lettuce you can eat.
We don't eat rich around here.

alyce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 2:36:35 PM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Right you are. The script says "early 1900s."


>>

I noticed a bit of a blooper:  she requested the journal from 1901
to 1910; she received the one from 1890 to 1910.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 13:04:28 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>02003-02-17 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  Both of those to some degree -- elegance of presentation is part of it too.
>>  But to me, what distinguishes sophisticated food from mundane food (BTW, I
>>  love both) is that the flavor and texture you get when you first put the
>>  food in your mouth are different from the various flavors and textures as
>>  you explore that first bite and each subsequent bite. It's food that someone
>>  has thought about, planned to be a sort of gustatory journey rather than a
>>  simple way of fueling the body.
>>
>>  An example might be canned tuna fish vs. seared ahi. Basically the same
>>  fish, and seared ahi is quick and easy to make, hardly more difficult than
>>  opening a can. But with the ahi you get the flavor of whatever's been rubbed
>>  on the outside, and the flavor and texture of the part near the outside
>>  that's cooked through, and entirely different flavor, texture and
>>  temperature of the rare part in the middle.
>
>I can't believe how pretentious broke-asses can be--being rich is one
>thing ...

I grew up rich, or at least affluent; I've succeeded in being broke
all on my own.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:07:48 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:51:39 PM, you wrote:

> = Actually, I keep hoping to find a way to fix it, but so far, I
> = haven't.
> =

> So what mailer are you using anyway?  I didn't see it in your
> headers.

The Bat!

I thought I could use the From header, but it uses my name as the
>From name when I'm making a reply--your name doesn't appear
anywhere.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:12:45 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:10:52 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: words-l <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Charlie Trotter's
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Rashmi Murthy:
= Karen [re Charlie Trotter's]:
=
= >I'd never heard of it before--but damn, I think Tushar should
= >take me to dinner there next year!
=
= Tushar, start saving NOW.
=

Actually, it wasn't that bad.  A month of him abstaining from the pub
would probably pay the bill for both of them, as long as their
wine choices were modest.

= CT is known for a fabulous wine cellar and great vegetarian food.
= He's not limited to veg but supposedly makes them delicious.
=
= How was it, steph?
=

Delicious.   It was supposed to be a fancy family get together
before my brother's wedding, but he and his wife decided they
were too stressed out to cope with a fancy night out just a
couple of days before the wedding.  So it was my sister and her
husband, my mom, and Pat and me.  I hadn't seen any of them in a
long while, and it all almost failed at the last minute.

I don't know if you heard about this, or remember it, but someone
ran from downstairs at O'hare by the baggage claim through
security with some kind of a satchel, briefcase, bag, and then
vanished into the airport.  This happened at pretty much the same
time that my brother in law's flight from Portland landed.  So
there we are, in O'Hare, by baggage claim right about at the same
time this is happening.

I think we waited about three hours with my sister, and then so
we wouldn't miss our dinner reservation, we left her at the
airport to wait for her husband, with the idea that they might be
rushed, but they'd probably catch up.  He'd been stuck on the
plane that whole time, and there was no gate, and the airport was
a mess, etc.  He was very angry, and very tired, and showed up at
the hotel with my sister just as we were waiting for my mom in
the lobby.  I wouldn't stand for it, him wimping out at this last
minute, and told him to go upstairs, get a very fast shower and
get his suit on.  So he does.

Then.  Then we should have just taken two taxis and gotten there,
but here is where we meet up with the limo driver, who has
dropped someone off, has nothing to do for a couple of hours
except sit around and drink (though we hadn't figured that part
out yet), and he wants to take the five of us there for some
reasonable rate.  So we get in the limo.  Then he doesn't really
know where Charlie Trotter's is, but does know where Armitage is.
This is when I realize that his breath could knock me cold.  Ok.
Now we are driving on Armitage, and for some reason, I actually
have my Palm Pilot in my purse with the address in it.  So now
we're looking for the address, but can't find it.

Anyway, we get there, and we are only twenty minutes late.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:16:46 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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At 12:00 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>I think Clyde is far closer to the rowing world.

Yes---insofar as I keep in touch with some of my refereeing colleagues and
occasionally do the odd job for the Referee Commission.

cwv

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:20:06 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 3:16:46 PM, you wrote:
> At 12:00 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>I think Clyde is far closer to the rowing world.

> Yes---insofar as I keep in touch with some of my refereeing colleagues and
> occasionally do the odd job for the Referee Commission.

Right. And I have is an erg--which I do use. But I just won't let
Bonnie know how often.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:28:58 2003
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On 17 Feb 2003 at 15:07, Karen Kay wrote:

> I thought I could use the From header, but it uses my name as the From
> name when I'm making a reply--your name doesn't appear anywhere.

Try OFROM

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:29:45 2003
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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:51:39 PM, you wrote:
>
> > = Actually, I keep hoping to find a way to fix it, but so far, I
> > = haven't.
> > =
>
> > So what mailer are you using anyway?  I didn't see it in your
> > headers.
>
> The Bat!
>
> I thought I could use the From header, but it uses my name as the
> >From name when I'm making a reply--your name doesn't appear
> anywhere.

It's %TOFNAME or something--but serve you right for using some bizarre
mailer ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:33:40 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:31:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Bitch clothes
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 3:27:42 PM, English wrote:

> 02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:51:39 PM, you wrote:
>>
>> > = Actually, I keep hoping to find a way to fix it, but so far, I
>> > = haven't.
>> > =
>>
>> > So what mailer are you using anyway?  I didn't see it in your
>> > headers.
>>
>> The Bat!
>>
>> I thought I could use the From header, but it uses my name as the
>> >From name when I'm making a reply--your name doesn't appear
>> anywhere.

> It's %TOFNAME or something--but serve you right for using some bizarre
> mailer ...

Ha ha! Not.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:34:00 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:32:08 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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Karen Kay:
= Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:51:39 PM, you wrote:
=
= > = Actually, I keep hoping to find a way to fix it, but so far, I
= > = haven't.
= > =
=
= > So what mailer are you using anyway?  I didn't see it in your
= > headers.
=
= The Bat!
=
= I thought I could use the From header, but it uses my name as the
= >From name when I'm making a reply--your name doesn't appear
= anywhere.
=

did you try %OFROMNAME

or are you doing something weird so that the mail is actually
coming from an account that's yours.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:34:19 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:32:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 3:26:39 PM,  wrote:

> On 17 Feb 2003 at 15:07, Karen Kay wrote:

>> I thought I could use the From header, but it uses my name as the From
>> name when I'm making a reply--your name doesn't appear anywhere.

> Try OFROM

Nothing.


Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:36:33 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:34:30 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Clear Lake and Big Bopper
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02003-02-17 | Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM> writes:
> Natalie wrote earlier asking if the event in Clear Lake was a seance...
>
> I dunno. It never occurred to me that the Big Bopper was dead, but of course
> he is. I didn't go to Legend Fest. There were a lot of Buddy Holly fans too.
> And since the billboards around town were touting The Big Bopper, I can only
> assume it was a convocation of rock 'n roll loving necrophiliacs. The few
> clips I saw on the teevee were of very weird looking people. But it was
> sophisticated.
>
> In my searches I have learned that there is a restaurant in Clear Lake which
> has Guiness. I am impressed and will have to go there some day. Max likes
> Guiness, but I doubt they will give him any. He is underage.

Please spell Guinness with two (2) Ns.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:39:32 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:37:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 3:32:08 PM, steph wrote:
> did you try %OFROMNAME

> or are you doing something weird so that the mail is actually
> coming from an account that's yours.

Ha! No, that works. Weird. Thank you! You rule!!!!!!!!!!

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:50:37 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:48:33 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:49:46 PM, steph wrote:
> Karen Kay:
> = Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:07:56 PM, you wrote:
= >> I think when you get your new job, and have both the money to pay
= >> for your plane ticket and the paid vacation time to visit
= >> Tushie-baby, that you, my dear, will buy him dinner.  Gladly!
> =
> = Boy, I do so not see this happening. Ever.
> =
> = Karen,
> = Not a practical-minded weasel

> Well, no wonder you're still out of a job then!  :-(

> Ok, maybe not the paid vacation part, but the rest?  Really, do
> you think you're going to be just scraping by the rest of your
> life.

Actually, yes. I think it's extremely unlikely that I'll ever be
able to earn as much money as I was making before. Even if I were
able to do the work I'm doing now on a full time basis (which I'm
not capable of doing, having not-worked for so long), I'd still
be making 1/3 less than what I was making before. With no
benefits--I think it's extremely unlikely that I'll be able to
get health insurance again, too, unless I'm able to work for a
company that provides group insurance.

Also, I have absolutely nothing for retirement, so if I ever hope
to retire, I need to be putting money away like crazy. And, my
house will need to re-roofed soon.

> I'm far more optimistic about your prospects than you are
> then.

I think you are young.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:51:06 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:49:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:51:51 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Boy, I do so not see this happening. Ever.

> Positive thinking. Positive thinking. It is time for positive thinking.
> Or are you positive it won't happen?

I would be delighted if it happened. I'd even take Tushar out to
dinner.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:51:53 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:50:00 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030217225000.A9414@yoccoz.multinix.com>
References: <200302170755.18KNC63BP3NZFjV0@sparrow>
            <013f01c2d6ae$ef2729d0$647d7643@greenery1865jd>
            <28496703451.20030217121144@WordWrite.com>
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:37:40PM -0600
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

Karen Kay:
= Monday, February 17, 2003, 3:32:08 PM, steph wrote:
= > did you try %OFROMNAME
=
= > or are you doing something weird so that the mail is actually
= > coming from an account that's yours.
=
= Ha! No, that works. Weird. Thank you! You rule!!!!!!!!!!
=

Thanks.

http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/templates.html#templates

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:54:42 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:52:34 +0000
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>It is amazing. Our car is lost in the snow.

Alec, is your car out?

I'm finally done - got my car out of the garage. It was beautiful
snow - powdery and clean. But still a bitch to shovel. The ridge
at the bottom of the driveway was the worst. I'm not going to
worry about the deck now. It can wait till next week...

YaY for girlpower, I did it all on my own!

-rashmi



_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:55:54 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:54:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 3:50:00 PM, steph wrote:
> http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/templates.html#templates

Believe it or not, I did look at this. But I couldn't make head
or tails of it. Anyway, I am thrilled.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 15:56:33 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:54:46 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 3:52:34 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> YaY for girlpower, I did it all on my own!

YaY for you.:)

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:01:11 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:59:18 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030217225918.B9414@yoccoz.multinix.com>
References: <BAY2-F22YimsrUmdTLR0002f041@hotmail.com>
            <128489035205.20030217100356@WordWrite.com>
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:48:33PM -0600
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=
= > I'm far more optimistic about your prospects than you are
= > then.
=
= I think you are young.
=
= Karen

I'll take the compliment, thank you.

One of the things I said today at work was, "I think I'm going to
need a fast car for my midlife crisis".

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:01:50 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:59:54 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030217225954.C9414@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:49:19PM -0600
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=
= I would be delighted if it happened. I'd even take Tushar out to
= dinner.
=

I would be delighted when this happens.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:01:44 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 03:54:00PM -0600
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Karen Kay:
= Monday, February 17, 2003, 3:50:00 PM, steph wrote:
= > http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/templates.html#templates
=
= Believe it or not, I did look at this. But I couldn't make head
= or tails of it. Anyway, I am thrilled.
=

I'm glad.  Tushar is glad.  It's poorly written, and well buried,
so I can believe it.

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Feels like 1996...
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:08:52 -0600
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> I'm finally done - got my car out of the garage. It was beautiful
> snow - powdery and clean. But still a bitch to shovel. The ridge
> at the bottom of the driveway was the worst. I'm not going to
> worry about the deck now. It can wait till next week...
>
> YaY for girlpower, I did it all on my own!
>
> -rashmi

Good for you!

Let the deck sit.  If your weather gets as
unpredictable as ours it won't be long.

We had rain, then ice, then snow . .
though not huge quantities.  That was a
few days ago.  Now it's supposed to be
in the 50's the rest of the week, and it's
melting like crazy.

             - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:15:02 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Bitch clothes
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 4:01:44 PM, steph wrote:
> I'm glad.  Tushar is glad.

Rashmi is glad.

> It's poorly written, and well buried, so I can believe it.

I think this document is a good example of what happens when
programmers write their own documentation. I have to say that
once I found this section, that the section is not all that
unclear. But I would never have found the section if you hadn't
told me that it was definitely in that document.

I don't find--in fact, I get pleasure out of--rewriting such crap
as part of my work. But it's not a job, I have very little
patience to wade through such poorly organized crap. Life is too
short.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:21:02 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:05:22 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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steph wrote:
>
> Karen Kay:
> = Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:51:39 PM, you wrote:
> =
So, Karen, how long would it take you to type in the person's name? One
second?

alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:22:46 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 4:05:22 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> steph wrote:
>>
>> Karen Kay:
>> = Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:51:39 PM, you wrote:
>> =
> So, Karen, how long would it take you to type in the person's name? One
> second?

Longer than that. I'd have to scroll up and scroll down. It's
just not worth it. But stevie solved my problem, so I am A-OK
now.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:25:26 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:22:58 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Well, we have about 8" now and it is still coming down quite heavily.
Latest report was 12-24" by morning. At least the temperature has risen
a little (15F now) and should not go down to zero again all week. Not
that I planned to go anywhere, but I hate the idea that I am trapped
here. Perhaps, Rashmi, could you come with your shovel?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:27:13 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:25:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 4:22:58 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Well, we have about 8" now and it is still coming down quite heavily.
> Latest report was 12-24" by morning. At least the temperature has risen
> a little (15F now) and should not go down to zero again all week. Not
> that I planned to go anywhere, but I hate the idea that I am trapped
> here. Perhaps, Rashmi, could you come with your shovel?

Won't Riley's family dig you out, like before?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:28:25 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:
> I don't find--in fact, I get pleasure out of--rewriting such crap
> as part of my work.

It is because almost everything ever written for PC users, Windows
users, and most general software users is written crappily that I am not
better at computer things. I cannot understand a word of it because it
all was written by illiterates.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:32:04 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:29:56 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >What exactly is sophisticated food and
> >drink -- as in what makes one consider one kind of food or drink
> ><sophisticated> and another kind not?
>
> It doesn't surprise me that you wouldn't know.

Thank you for your englightening answer to my question, Karenmae.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Monday, February 17, 2003, 4:25:50 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> It is because almost everything ever written for PC users, Windows
> users, and most general software users is written crappily that I am not
> better at computer things. I cannot understand a word of it because it
> all was written by illiterates.

Er, most of it was written by professional writers, who may or
may not have understood what they were writing about. But no one
writes well when time pressures are too extreme, as they almost
always are when you're writing about computers.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:31:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> >So this is what could correctly be called anti-semitism.
>
> Espen, you intellectural! Seriously, does that definition count outside
> academia?

Language use being what it is, I don't think that is the assumed
definition even within academia, although most people are aware of the
<inaccuracy> re Semite.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         Down with nectarines!

The New Orleans satsumas have suffered from the cold.  A friend brought
some to lunch today from his parents' backyard in NO, and they weren't
nearly as good as the ones he brought a while back.  But he also brought
an excellent King Cake today.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:35:24 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

>  Rescheduled for next
> Monday, so longer to wiat. Sigh.

Yes, that is definitely sigh-worthy.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         Jo, try not to take John very seriously. He gets as little
> bit techy sometimes.

But he has great legs.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:39:00 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:37:28 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: no CT scan
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> alyce cresap wrote:
>
>
>> Rescheduled for next
>>Monday, so longer to wiat. Sigh.
>>
>
> Yes, that is definitely sigh-worthy.
>


        See, you need to move to St. Louis.  Then we could have 'em
together!  It would be CT-fest '03.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:37:55 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>        Jo, try not to take John very seriously. He gets as little
>>bit techy sometimes.
>>
>
> But he has great legs.
>

        Indeed.  We have our reasons for keeping him around.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:41:20 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:39:14 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> >>It's supposed to go down to 30 tonight.
>
> > Bo-ring!
>
> It's exciting when it doesn't happen very often. And you don't
> have the burden of digging out.

We'll probably be on approximately the same latitude if I move to BSL.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:41:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 4:39:14 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> We'll probably be on approximately the same latitude if I move to BSL.

But you'll be warmer because you'll be Near The Lake. So to
speak.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:45:36 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:43:30 -0600
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bonniev wrote:

> I think it's because people who grew up eating cream of mushroom soup and
> iceberg lettuce don't really understand that there are better foods.

We had iceberg lettuce in my childhood, but I quickly caught on that it
sucked.  What kind of lettuces did you have when growing up?  Re cream
of mushroom soup, does anybody just eat it as soup?  I've always thought
of it as an <ingredient>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:46:43 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:44:38 -0600
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bonniev wrote:
>     Your students need you, not to mention your husband and
> daughter.

And Wordslers.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:47:36 2003
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 4:43:30 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> We had iceberg lettuce in my childhood, but I quickly caught on that it
> sucked.  What kind of lettuces did you have when growing up?

I only had iceberg. I was relieved to discover that there are
other kinds.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:50:47 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:48:43 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
> >I think it's because people who grew up eating cream of mushroom soup and
> >iceberg lettuce don't really understand that there are better foods.
>
> Could be. OTOH, I made a cream of portobello soup Saturday night that is
> one of the best soups I have ever eaten. Ingredients:

Being the unsophisticate that I am, I stupidly was thinking of canned
cream of mushroom soup in what Bonnie wrote above.  That's why I asked
the dumb question about whether anybody ate it as soup.

You'd think I'd be a bit more sophisticated, having lived for three
years on the east coast.  We've concluded that only the Atlantic and
Pacific count, right?  Iow, I won't gain any sophistication points if I
move to Bay St. Louis.  I'll be looking at the same kind of water those
unsophisticated dullards in New Orleans look at.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:55:26 2003
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At 03:34 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
>02003-02-17 | Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM> writes:
> > In my searches I have learned that there is a restaurant in Clear Lake
> which
> > has Guiness. I am impressed and will have to go there some day. Max likes
> > Guiness, but I doubt they will give him any. He is underage.
>
>Please spell Guinness with two (2) Ns.

Yes, please.  Some of us are <very> sensitive.

By the way, Tushar, there is a stout brewed here on the island which is
markedly superior to [G]; you should come here and try it.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 16:57:15 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:55:08 -0600
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Betty wrote:

> It's beautiful in Monterey. I found this internet cafe with high speed

I'm glad.  I was sorry I got into house-hunting during your absence
yesterday because I wanted your opinions.  When will you be back to your
own computer?

> connection after dropping Larry off at the golf course. I didnt bring my bike
> this trip so I'm thinking of going to the aquarium. I haven't been in several

It took me a second take to realize you didn't mean you hoped to swim in
the aquarium -- as in not being able to get exercise from cycling and
thus needing to swim.

> Hope Tushar is safe and didn't get trampled.

Rumor is that he started it.

> No snow on this coast.

But you can wallow in sophistication nevertheless.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:00:51 2003
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>bonniev wrote:
> > I think it's because people who grew up eating cream of mushroom soup and
> > iceberg lettuce don't really understand that there are better foods.
>
>We had iceberg lettuce in my childhood, but I quickly caught on that it
>sucked.  What kind of lettuces did you have when growing up?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I don't remember having lettuce at all.  I only remember shredded carrots
in jello.   But iceberg lettuce is still the norm in northern
Wisconsin.   I never learned that it sucked.   In fact, I still rather like
it.  It's so much crunchier than the other lettuces.   I do appreciate a
mixed greens salad, however, when nicely dressed with a bit of cheese and nuts.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:05:00 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:02:50 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
e
> > never been sure what makes something sophisticated.  Is it a matter of
> > how long it takes to prepare it or of whether the ingredients are
> > <exotic> or what?)
>
> Both of those to some degree -- elegance of presentation is part of it too.
> But to me, what distinguishes sophisticated food from mundane food (BTW, I
> love both) is that the flavor and texture you get when you first put the
> food in your mouth are different from the various flavors and textures as
> you explore that first bite and each subsequent bite. It's food that someone
> has thought about, planned to be a sort of gustatory journey rather than a
> simple way of fueling the body.
>
> An example might be canned tuna fish vs. seared ahi. Basically the same
> fish, and seared ahi is quick and easy to make, hardly more difficult than
> opening a can. But with the ahi you get the flavor of whatever's been rubbed
> on the outside, and the flavor and texture of the part near the outside
> that's cooked through, and entirely different flavor, texture and
> temperature of the rare part in the middle.

Now that is what I call a good answer.  Thank you.  But it raises more
questions for me.  Would you (or would Bonnie) consider something like
perfectly prepared chittlins sophisticated?  What about crawfish, cooked
with exactly the right spices and <touch>?  What about perfect
hushpuppies?  Or a goat roasted on a spit with exactly the right basting
on the outside and the cooking time ideal for making the texture vary?
These are all considered pretty <mundane> around here.  Yet they strike
me as fitting to some extent with what you said.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:03:40 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> bonniev wrote:
>
>>    Your students need you, not to mention your husband and
>>daughter.
>>
>
> And Wordslers.


        I'm not dead, yet.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:09:05 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:06:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> It might not be a condo on the sense of sharing a building with others like
> it, but it might well be a townhouse or whatever where some community
> facilities are shared and the homeowners' association takes care of things
> like exterior painting and landscape maintenance.

Yes -- that's what I thought I just said -- an association.

> Sometimes these have
> things like swimming pools and exercise rooms, which can be nice. The only
> reason I haven't considered one is the lack of privacy.

I'm against (i.e, I personally don't want) association fees.  I'd rather
pay for a membership somewhere to swim, since community swimming pools
are usually smaller than gym swimming pools, and I'd rather have the
option of taking care of my own yard, etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:10:59 2003
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Would you (or would Bonnie) consider something like
>perfectly prepared chittlins sophisticated?

No.

>  What about crawfish, cooked
>with exactly the right spices and <touch>?

Yes.

>  What about perfect hushpuppies?

No.

>Or a goat roasted on a spit with exactly the right basting
>on the outside and the cooking time ideal for making the texture vary?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Yes.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:11:17 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:10:46 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>e
>>  > never been sure what makes something sophisticated.  Is it a matter of
>>  > how long it takes to prepare it or of whether the ingredients are
>>  > <exotic> or what?)
>>
>>  Both of those to some degree -- elegance of presentation is part of it too.
>>  But to me, what distinguishes sophisticated food from mundane food (BTW, I
>>  love both) is that the flavor and texture you get when you first put the
>>  food in your mouth are different from the various flavors and textures as
>>  you explore that first bite and each subsequent bite. It's food that someone
>>  has thought about, planned to be a sort of gustatory journey rather than a
>>  simple way of fueling the body.
>>
>>  An example might be canned tuna fish vs. seared ahi. Basically the same
>>  fish, and seared ahi is quick and easy to make, hardly more difficult than
>>  opening a can. But with the ahi you get the flavor of whatever's been rubbed
>>  on the outside, and the flavor and texture of the part near the outside
>>  that's cooked through, and entirely different flavor, texture and
>>  temperature of the rare part in the middle.
>
>Now that is what I call a good answer.  Thank you.  But it raises more
>questions for me.  Would you (or would Bonnie) consider something like
>perfectly prepared chittlins sophisticated?  What about crawfish, cooked
>with exactly the right spices and <touch>?  What about perfect
>hushpuppies?  Or a goat roasted on a spit with exactly the right basting
>on the outside and the cooking time ideal for making the texture vary?

I would consider all those to be sophisticated ethnic or regional
dishes, if they were prepared with the journey-type intent. I
certainly wouldn't object to going to a nice San Francisco restaurant
and finding any of those dishes on the menu -- although I might pass
on the chitlins ;)

Of course, San Francisco is veering back toward "comfort food,"
well-cooked regional and ethnic dishes that people actually like
instead of eating them because they think they ought to like them. It
wouldn't be surprising to find any of the dishes you listed on a
local menu, at very fancy prices.

Dossie makes a rhubarb and orange pie that's one of the loveliest
dishes I've ever eaten -- each bite tastes different along the
sweet/sour axis and has a different texture -- it's very hard to stop
eating it. While rhubarb pie is not on many people's list of haute
cuisine, I think it a very sophisticated dish.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:11:36 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:09:26 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" wrote:
>
> Janet:
> >The only reason I haven't considered one is the lack of privacy.
>
> ...and don't forget the possibility of creepazoid neighbors.

Hey, Richard -- have we already discussed how we're going to get
together when I move to Bay St. Louis?  It's less than an hour from NO.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:16:45 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:04:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, bonniev wrote:

>in jello.   But iceberg lettuce is still the norm in northern
>Wisconsin.   I never learned that it sucked.   In fact, I still rather like
>it.  It's so much crunchier than the other lettuces.   I do appreciate a
>mixed greens salad, however, when nicely dressed with a bit of cheese and nuts.

I love it when bonnie makes sense.

Bethany

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Subject: Re: Is this for real?
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bonniev wrote:

>    When you prick JMW, he does not bleed.

You have evidence of that?

> He is the one
> wordsler who does not need his feelings validated.

I think he has a very healthy psyche and thus does not need constant
<validation>.  But, even though I have no evidence to the contrary, I'm
not so sure about your assumption that he's a non-bleeder.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:22:17 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:19:02 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: snow
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Karen Kay wrote:
> Won't Riley's family dig you out, like before?

I certainly hope so. But I just thought that since Rashmi was in a
shoveling mood...
Also, I gave an erroneous report. There's now 14" of snow here. I
noticed that my little garden fence is totally covered and it is 14"
high. They just said that the heaviest snow is coming between now and 3
am. I wonder if there will be more than 24" then.

alyce

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
References: <013f01c2d6ae$ef2729d0$647d7643@greenery1865jd>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> Er, most of it was written by professional writers,

For me, a professional writer is one who is able to convey ideas
clearly. I am still waiting to get some instructions to something,
anything, that do that. I say they are incompetent then, if not
illiterate.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:25:15 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:22:39 -0500
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Subject: Re: no CT scan
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>         See, you need to move to St. Louis.  Then we could have 'em
> together!  It would be CT-fest '03.

When is yours?
alyce

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>  What kind of lettuces did you have when growing up?

Iceberg. I never knew there was another kind till I was 35.

>  Re cream
> of mushroom soup, does anybody just eat it as soup?

Yes, then and now.

> I've always thought  of it as an <ingredient>.

Sometimes that, too.

alyce
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:52:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: report from NYC
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 4:57:56 PM, you wrote:
> I do appreciate a
> mixed greens salad, however, when nicely dressed with a bit of cheese and nuts.

Try a few well-placed toasted sesame seeds.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:54:58 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:51:19 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: no CT scan
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>        See, you need to move to St. Louis.  Then we could have 'em
>>together!  It would be CT-fest '03.
>>
>
> When is yours?


        Next Friday.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 17:59:10 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:57:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 5:10:46 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> Dossie makes a rhubarb and orange pie that's one of the loveliest
> dishes I've ever eaten -- each bite tastes different along the
> sweet/sour axis and has a different texture -- it's very hard to stop
> eating it. While rhubarb pie is not on many people's list of haute
> cuisine, I think it a very sophisticated dish.

Is it a cream pie? (I just did a quick google, and I found two
classes of recipes--one that just use orange juice, and one that
is an orange-rhubarb cream pie.)

This sounds like something I want to know how to make.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 17:59:45 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 5:19:02 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> I certainly hope so. But I just thought that since Rashmi was in a
> shoveling mood...

She's also good company.

> Also, I gave an erroneous report. There's now 14" of snow here. I
> noticed that my little garden fence is totally covered and it is 14"
> high. They just said that the heaviest snow is coming between now and 3
> am. I wonder if there will be more than 24" then.

Jeeze Louise.

I hear that there was an NPR piece today on how nice Austin is
compared to the rest of the US. It was 26 at the airport last
night, but today it was in the upper 60's and the sky was blue
and the birds were chirping and the wild garlic is blooming and
people are mowing their lawns.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:01:07 -0600
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bonniev wrote:

> >But most of the people who live in the middle live in large
> >cities.  No fair.
>
> There's some truth to that.  That's why Maine got to be the second most
> rural state in the union after Vermont.  We don't have any large
> cities.   The little population that we have live in small, sidewalkless
> towns or out in the country.

I would've guessed it to be because of the rather large space consumed
by the Maine woods -- the timberland.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:03:34 2003
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> Yes, I think the culture shock thing will be interesting to watch (if they
> do indeed decide to go that way) -- although I'd imagine theater grad school
> would insulate one a bit.

Your last clause hits upon something I've been thinking about throughout
this discussion of places and attitudes.  I really, really don't think
things are quite as regionally defined as many of you seem to think they
are.  I think the particular social/professional contexts we live in are
much more significant than geography.  There's also quite a bit of
stereotyping flopping around.  It reminds me of the many people I've
talked to who have moved here from YankeeLand without ever having been
here before and who say things like, "I thought I would run into racism
here, but there was much more racism in [wherever they came from in
YankeeLand]."  (I've heard that from both blacks and whites, both
students and faculty.)  Stereotypes are pretty funny really.

Iow, I find this thing about regions a bit questionable in many ways.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Nothing would induce me to let iceberg lettuce pass my lips
> again.

If you were invited to dinner at somebody's house and noticed (with
understandable horror) that the salad was made with iceberg lettuce,
would you say, "Sorry, but I cannot let iceberg lettuce pass my lips" or
"I can't eat salads," or just leave the salad untouched and say
nothing?  My anti-icebergness doesn't go that far.  I would go on and
eat at least some of the salad.  But I wouldn't be happy.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:04:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 5:21:22 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Er, most of it was written by professional writers,

> For me, a professional writer is one who is able to convey ideas
> clearly. I am still waiting to get some instructions to something,
> anything, that do that. I say they are incompetent then, if not
> illiterate.

Maybe you aren't their target audience.

Did I talk about the book that Ligniere read part of aloud to me
recently? It was printed in 1926, and was a 'thriller', I guess,
of its time. There was a lot about Hungarian Communists in it.
Anyway, even though the first sentences of many chapters were
good candidate for the Bulwer Lytton award (is that the right
name?), the book was surprisingly literate. It was enormous fun
to read aloud.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         About 150's/100.

Eek.  I don't really know what the <right> numbers are, but I do know
enough to know that that sounds way high.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:06:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 5:28:31 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Iow, I find this thing about regions a bit questionable in many ways.

Well, I have been through three dramatic changes of regions in
the past few years, and I think you're wrong.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 6:04:24 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Did I talk about the book that Ligniere read part of aloud to me
recently?
>>

What's the book, and who's the author?
I have a lot of free time now.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:10:09 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:08:22 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:04:05 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> If you were invited to dinner at somebody's house and noticed (with
> understandable horror) that the salad was made with iceberg lettuce,
> would you say, "Sorry, but I cannot let iceberg lettuce pass my lips" or
> "I can't eat salads," or just leave the salad untouched and say
> nothing?

Why would I say anything? If they are serving iceberg lettuce, I
don't really feel a need to spit in their faces.

I would try to eat everything else and the leafier parts of the
salad. That's what I do in restaurants that serve that.

>  My anti-icebergness doesn't go that far.  I would go on and
> eat at least some of the salad.  But I wouldn't be happy.

Food was put here for our enjoyment. I'm not eating food that
doesn't make me happy.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:10:58 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:08:35 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Janet
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 6:05:23 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
Rita Chapman wrote:

>         About 150's/100.

Eek.  I don't really know what the <right> numbers are, but I do know
enough to know that that sounds way high.


>>

That is way too high.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:15:40 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:13:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Bitch clothes
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:07:15 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> In a message dated 02/17/2003 6:04:24 PM Central Standard Time,
> Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:
> <<
> Did I talk about the book that Ligniere read part of aloud to me
> recently?
>>>

> What's the book, and who's the author?
> I have a lot of free time now.

Sorry, I don't remember the title. I thought the author was
Harriet Vance, but I can't find anything about her on the web.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:18:47 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:16:46 -0600 (CST)
From: "RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" <rjscheid@nadal.loyno.edu>
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Janet:
> My concern is that they would consider *me* a creepazoid neighbor.

Just so.  But you're a lot more civilized than you let on.

I actually had in mind a specific neighbor of mine, when I was
living in a condo-ish situation.  This guy was a genuine pervert
(and not in the cutesy, positive way you use the word; we're
talking a certifiable degenerate here).

Well, that's an odd expression.  Who certifies degenerates?

And while I'm at it, what the heck does "world class" mean?

--
Richard 12:14             give no offense

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 6:13:49 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Sorry, I don't remember the title. I thought the author was
Harriet Vance, but I can't find anything about her on the web.

>>

Wasn't Harriet Vance the woman who captured Lord Peter's
heart?  I'd love to see the Lord Peter Wimsey programs again;
not the ones with Ian Charmichael, though; the other ones.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Natalie:
> The New Orleans satsumas have suffered from the cold.

Please, woman, the wounds are still open.

Satsumas are one of my favorite fruits.

On the other hand, we have been promised a bountiful
crawfish harvest.

--
Richard 12:14             give no offense

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:21:39 2003
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> Hey, Richard -- have we already discussed how we're going to get
> together when I move to Bay St. Louis?  It's less than an hour from NO.

I'm rather fond of BSL, now that you mention it.

--
Richard 12:14             give no offense

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:23:33 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Monday, February 17, 2003, 5:10:46 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>  Dossie makes a rhubarb and orange pie that's one of the loveliest
>>  dishes I've ever eaten -- each bite tastes different along the
>>  sweet/sour axis and has a different texture -- it's very hard to stop
>>  eating it. While rhubarb pie is not on many people's list of haute
>>  cuisine, I think it a very sophisticated dish.
>
>Is it a cream pie? (I just did a quick google, and I found two
>classes of recipes--one that just use orange juice, and one that
>is an orange-rhubarb cream pie.)

No, it's just chunks of rhubarb and orange in sort of a sweet glaze-y
stuff. You could probably fool with the orange-juice one and come up
with something pretty close. I don't think Dossie shares the recipe;
it's her signature dessert.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:15:04 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

>  He was amused that the population of River City has become
> largely black, Asian, and Hispanic.

This reminds me of the Broadway re-doing of "Carousel" that I saw
sometime in recent  years -- can't remember when except I do remember
that I met Ken Wolman for lunch right before it and that I saw "Medea"
the next day.  I'm all for appropriate racial diversity in plays and
movies, but somehow it struck me as funny to see the Snow family
marching along (in that scene near the end when Billy Bigelow's daugher
is dancing on the beach and the Snows come prancing by).  The line of
Snow children was black, white, black, white, black, white (to whatever
number it was -- I've forgotten).  Somehow that struck me as a bit
<cutsey> or something.  Carrie Snow was black and Mr. Snow was white, so
the racial mixture made sense on one level, but it still seemed a bit
weird that their children would turn out to be clearly black or clearly
white one by one.  But then fiction doesn't have to be Real Life, and I
did adore that performance.  Talk about unsophisticated tastes, don't
let me get started about the special meaning "Carousel" has for me.
Lots of meanings.  I already had plenty of them before another, a
Words-L meaning, was added when Giggles told us he had played the part
of the star-shiner in it.  (This time I'm talking about was long before
he died and possibly before he was even a Wordsler.  Iow, I didn't have
the Giggles connection that day in NY when I was amused by the
black/white/black/white Snow children.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:28:39 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:25:34 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>        About 150's/100.
>>
>
> Eek.  I don't really know what the <right> numbers are, but I do know
> enough to know that that sounds way high.


        It is.  I have another drug now.  And I'll have pretty
pictures of my kidneys next week.  I don't have a UTI.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:29:11 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:28:37 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Please review this property listing found onwww.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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>Janet:
>>  My concern is that they would consider *me* a creepazoid neighbor.
>
>Just so.  But you're a lot more civilized than you let on.

It's being a creepazoid that makes me civilized; I have appropriate
outlets for my antisocial impulses ;)

>I actually had in mind a specific neighbor of mine, when I was
>living in a condo-ish situation.  This guy was a genuine pervert
>(and not in the cutesy, positive way you use the word; we're
>talking a certifiable degenerate here).
>
>Well, that's an odd expression.  Who certifies degenerates?

Maybe I should start a business.

>And while I'm at it, what the heck does "world class" mean?

Dunno. But while I was living in Sacramento there was a big drive to
bring a major league sports franchise to the city becaue it was going
to make us a "world class city." So we got the Kings, and Sacramento
is still not a world class city by anyone's standards.

A baseball team might have been different... Sacramento is ideal for
baseball...

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:31:42 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:29:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Bitch clothes
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:18:17 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> In a message dated 02/17/2003 6:13:49 PM Central Standard Time,
> Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

> <<
> Sorry, I don't remember the title. I thought the author was
> Harriet Vance, but I can't find anything about her on the web.

>>>

> Wasn't Harriet Vance the woman who captured Lord Peter's
> heart?

LOL. I must have misheard him. Sorry. If I remember, I'll ask
him. He offered to lend me the book, but I declined because I
have two book blubs (I'm leaving that) back-to-back in March, and
they both have long books. (Okay, I typed long boobs, but I
changed that.)

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:32:25 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:30:20 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I think this document is a good example of what happens when
> programmers write their own documentation. I have to say that
> once I found this section, that the section is not all that
> unclear. But I would never have found the section if you hadn't
> told me that it was definitely in that document.

I would take that as a warning sign that the coding may be
similarly organized, and the program unreliable.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:32:39 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:30:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:23:33 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> No, it's just chunks of rhubarb and orange in sort of a sweet glaze-y
> stuff. You could probably fool with the orange-juice one and come up
> with something pretty close. I don't think Dossie shares the recipe;
> it's her signature dessert.

Dang!

Does the orange have the peel on?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:35:48 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:34:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:30:20 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> 02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> I think this document is a good example of what happens when
>> programmers write their own documentation. I have to say that
>> once I found this section, that the section is not all that
>> unclear. But I would never have found the section if you hadn't
>> told me that it was definitely in that document.

> I would take that as a warning sign that the coding may be
> similarly organized, and the program unreliable.

Oh, I don't. Programmers are just impatient with words. You are
the exception, o my darling!

Karen,
sucking up 10 months in advance...

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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02003-02-17 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> It is because almost everything ever written for PC users, Windows
> users, and most general software users is written crappily that I
> am not better at computer things. I cannot understand a word of it
> because it all was written by illiterates.

At the risk of descending to a variety snobbishness which is SO
yesterday--there are several documents about, say, Unix products
which are masterpieces of literary expression compared to the
crap you are talking about. I used to hesitate to draw the
conclusion before, but now I am shameless--I think illiterate
writing is linked to "illiterate" programming ...

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:35:21 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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>Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:18:17 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
>>  In a message dated 02/17/2003 6:13:49 PM Central Standard Time,
>>  Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:
>
>>  <<
>>  Sorry, I don't remember the title. I thought the author was
>>  Harriet Vance, but I can't find anything about her on the web.
>
>>>>
>
>>  Wasn't Harriet Vance the woman who captured Lord Peter's
>>  heart?
>
>LOL. I must have misheard him. Sorry. If I remember, I'll ask
>him. He offered to lend me the book, but I declined because I
>have two book blubs (I'm leaving that) back-to-back in March, and
>they both have long books. (Okay, I typed long boobs, but I
>changed that.)

Her name was Harriet, but I'm almost certain her last name wasn't
Vance. I'll have to go look.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:35:57 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:23:33 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>  No, it's just chunks of rhubarb and orange in sort of a sweet glaze-y
>>  stuff. You could probably fool with the orange-juice one and come up
>>  with something pretty close. I don't think Dossie shares the recipe;
>>  it's her signature dessert.
>
>Dang!
>
>Does the orange have the peel on?

No, but I think there may be some shredded zest in the glaze.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:35:19 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Yes. Although, my father, a midwesterner, sent his plate back to the
> kitchen more than once when there was too much on it. Waiters were
> reeling in shock. I inherited his horror at having too much food at
> once.

I think I've said before that I find the huge portions served these days
in restaurants grotesque and repulsive.  And I haven't noticed that it
varies by region, at least within the US.  I've been in a few
restaurants here and elsewhere in recent years that served appropriate
amounts, but most I've been in serve way, way too much.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:35:32 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030218003532.GD23277@pobox.com>
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            <52509059338.20030217153740@WordWrite.com>
            <20030217225000.A9414@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Did I talk about the book that Ligniere read part of aloud to me
> recently? It was printed in 1926, and was a 'thriller', I guess,
> of its time. There was a lot about Hungarian Communists in it.
> Anyway, even though the first sentences of many chapters were
> good candidate for the Bulwer Lytton award (is that the right
> name?), the book was surprisingly literate. It was enormous fun
> to read aloud.

Nowadays, "surprisingly literate" means The Simpsons--man how DO
I pass days at a strecth without weeping ...

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:36:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: report from NYC
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:35:57 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:23:33 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>>  No, it's just chunks of rhubarb and orange in sort of a sweet glaze-y
>>>  stuff. You could probably fool with the orange-juice one and come up
>>>  with something pretty close. I don't think Dossie shares the recipe;
>>>  it's her signature dessert.
>>
>>Dang!
>>
>>Does the orange have the peel on?

> No, but I think there may be some shredded zest in the glaze.

Dang, this sounds good. I wonder if rhubarb grows in Austin...

I lust after Dossie.:)

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:42:03 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:39:59 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030218003959.GE23277@pobox.com>
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            <99507267011.20030217150748@WordWrite.com>
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02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:30:20 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > 02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> I think this document is a good example of what happens when
> >> programmers write their own documentation. I have to say that
> >> once I found this section, that the section is not all that
> >> unclear. But I would never have found the section if you hadn't
> >> told me that it was definitely in that document.
>
> > I would take that as a warning sign that the coding may be
> > similarly organized, and the program unreliable.
>
> Oh, I don't. Programmers are just impatient with words. You are
> the exception, o my darling!

No, they are not. Sorry. That's some kind of science fiction nerd
image, of atrabilious genius unwilling to talk. Impatient with words
means impatient with code; chances are the code will have stupid
"convenient" decisions all over.

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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:40:13 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Bitch clothes
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 6:29:59 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Sorry. If I remember, I'll ask
him. He offered to lend me the book, but I declined because I
have two book blubs (I'm leaving that) back-to-back in March,
>>

Oh, that's OK.  I just wondered if I might have read the book
back when I had access to a Goodwill and bought oodles of old
mysteries.  That's one thing Dad and I had in common:  a love of
old mysteries.  He especially liked the Baynard Kendrick books;
they were about a blind detective and were the model for the
Longstreet TV program.  My favorites were the British ones;
especially the Lord Peter stories and the Sherlock Holmes stories.
I had a customer the other day, and his name was James Moriarty.
I asked him if he knew that was the name of the Professor; he said
he did know.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:40:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> Wait.  Wait a minute.  Let's see.  Where
> could they find someone who is a compulsive
> and long-winded talker, (relatively) good-looking,
> loaded with theories, and out of a job?
>
> Hmm.  Wouldn't be surprised.

If that's supposed to be a reference to BC (which I'm not sure it is
since he does seem to be working, I don't think he's good-looking, and
I'm not really sure about theories), the answer is that he said no to
hosting a talk show ages ago.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:44:39 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:
> Doris Markland wrote:
> > Hmm.  Wouldn't be surprised.
>
> He's been approached, but not by this current wealthy group of
> Democracts. Turned it down, because it ties one down too much and he has
> things to do, places to go, etc.

I gather you also thought of BC.  I'm thinking that when he said no
earlier that he perhaps didn't say that it was a forever no.  Maybe
he'll change his mind.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 16:44:48 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:35:57 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>>Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:23:33 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>>>   No, it's just chunks of rhubarb and orange in sort of a sweet glaze-y
>>>>   stuff. You could probably fool with the orange-juice one and come up
>>>>   with something pretty close. I don't think Dossie shares the recipe;
>>>>   it's her signature dessert.
>>>
>>>Dang!
>>>
>>>Does the orange have the peel on?
>
>>  No, but I think there may be some shredded zest in the glaze.
>
>Dang, this sounds good. I wonder if rhubarb grows in Austin...
>
>I lust after Dossie.:)

And so you should; she is entirely lustworthy.

Janet
fortunate

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-17 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> >
> > How long is it since you lived in Chicago?
>
> 1968-69. No, there is no reason for me to keep up with Chicgao. I
> thought Charlie Trotter was very old because it was so respected and
> well known.

I think you actually might lack access to a particular kind
of "ethos" ... I can't put it in words very well, unfortunately,
but I think you might simply be unable to understand that a
monster raving star chef is able to launch a "pre-respected"
restaurant overnight. It may be a 90s thing, I don't know.
People bloody launch and publish major classics in all fields
all the time, and self-promotion is the most important factor
in it. And BOBO-aesthetic reviewers I guess ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:50:24 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: no CT scan
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> cannot park anywhere near the entrance. Even the handicapped spots are
> some distance from the door. Very poor planning.
> --
> alyce

I've noticed that about both of the newer medical buildings I've been to to
have my ankle attended to. Parking is completely asinine. They expect people
in pain to walk a million miles. Dopes, all of them.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:52:27 2003
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
>  He was amused that the population of River City has become
> > largely black, Asian, and Hispanic.
>
> > alyce
>
> Pretty realistic, actually.  This small town has
> moved in that direction almost overnight.
> Not a majority, of course, but clearly visible.

I don't know anything about this new "Music Man."  Has the time setting
been changed?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 18:53:56 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:51:49 -0600
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Marie Ascher wrote:
>
> >From: Anne Toal <toalanne@HOTMAIL.COM>
> >Yo, noob
>
> Is this a coinage?

It's a sign that Southern [nju] is turning into Yankee [nu].

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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On 17 Feb 2003 at 16:35, Janet Hardy wrote:

> Her name was Harriet, but I'm almost certain her last name wasn't
> Vance. I'll have to go look.
>

Harriet Vane

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:54:36 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Clear Lake and Big Bopper
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02003-02-17 | "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM> writes:
> At 03:34 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
> >02003-02-17 | Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM> writes:
> >> In my searches I have learned that there is a restaurant in Clear Lake
> >which
> >> has Guiness. I am impressed and will have to go there some day. Max likes
> >> Guiness, but I doubt they will give him any. He is underage.
> >
> >Please spell Guinness with two (2) Ns.
>
> Yes, please.  Some of us are <very> sensitive.
>
> By the way, Tushar, there is a stout brewed here on the island which is
> markedly superior to [G]; you should come here and try it.

Finally, a locality where the residents claim this!

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 6:50:23 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
I don't know anything about this new "Music Man."  Has the time setting
been changed?

>>

Nope, still around 1910 - 1914 by going by the ladies' costumes.
But the "new" River City is integrated.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Bitch clothes
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 6:52:22 PM Central Standard Time, mem@FLEX.COM
writes:

<<
On 17 Feb 2003 at 16:35, Janet Hardy wrote:

> Her name was Harriet, but I'm almost certain her last name wasn't
> Vance. I'll have to go look.
>

Harriet Vane

>>

Thanks!

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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bonniev wrote:

> Bar Harbor has less than 3000 people.

I'm surprised in that population that you haven't run into my friend the
Blaneys yet.  They live on the island in summer but live in BH in
winter.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 19:00:44 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:

>  > Did you read recently that the birth rate in
> > California just now indicates more Hispanics
> > being born than whites (do I want to say caucasians?).
>
> Yes. Tomorrow the world.

We should be marching for English-only legislation, n'est-ce pas?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:59:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:39:59 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> No, they are not. Sorry. That's some kind of science fiction nerd
> image, of atrabilious genius unwilling to talk. Impatient with words
> means impatient with code; chances are the code will have stupid
> "convenient" decisions all over.

Well, that's sometimes true. My other favorite programmer, other
than you, dear heart, is a poet.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:00:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:40:13 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> Oh, that's OK.  I just wondered if I might have read the book
> back when I had access to a Goodwill and bought oodles of old
> mysteries.  That's one thing Dad and I had in common:  a love of
> old mysteries.  He especially liked the Baynard Kendrick books;
> they were about a blind detective and were the model for the
> Longstreet TV program.  My favorites were the British ones;
> especially the Lord Peter stories and the Sherlock Holmes stories.
> I had a customer the other day, and his name was James Moriarty.
> I asked him if he knew that was the name of the Professor; he said
> he did know.

This book was more like James Bond than a real mystery.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Doris Markland wrote:

>  I used to know huge parts of that script.
> One of my kids played the little red-headed
> boy once and was young enough that I
> often attended rehearsals.

I can still sing the alto part of some of the songs of "The MM" since my
high school  choir did some of them (and we went to see a performance of
it in NYC when on tour).  But we did more <sophisticated> stuff when we
performed for the National Choral Directors' convention in Atlantic City
(on my sixteenth birthday).  That was the east coast, after all.  (We
really were good.  I no longer can play the record albums of my hs choir
since I no longer have a turntable, but I did at some point copy one of
those records to a tape, which I think I still have somewhere.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:06:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Hey, Carolyn,

I don't know if you remember, but I had a lot of trouble
<getting> why Lake Maquarie was a lake (and I still have your
map). Well, I'm living somewhere now that has lakes that are
really a river.

I'm getting used to it, but it still doesn't make sense to me.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:06:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:47:12 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> And BOBO-aesthetic reviewers I guess ...

South Austin is the proud home of the Bubba-aesthetic reviewer.

But someone I know is advertising a rental property that has
'SoCo charm'--meaning, I guess, South of Town Lake, i.e., the
Colorado River. I loathe and despise this term.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:07:40 -0600
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 6:50:12 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Doris Markland wrote:
>>
>>  He was amused that the population of River City has become
>> > largely black, Asian, and Hispanic.
>>
>> > alyce
>>
>> Pretty realistic, actually.  This small town has
>> moved in that direction almost overnight.
>> Not a majority, of course, but clearly visible.

> I don't know anything about this new "Music Man."  Has the time setting
> been changed?

No.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>
> Well, that's sometimes true.

Excellent save!

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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> >         Jo, try not to take John very seriously. He gets as little
> > bit techy sometimes.
>
> But he has great legs.

    When, oh when, will someone love me for my <mind>?

JMW

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> Nah, they (dems) lack the killer instinct.

That reminds me of something I heard my RRB&SIL saying a number of years
ago.  They were talking about how smart my mother was (and she was) and
were saying something about how she could have done whatever -- can't
remember now the specifics of the whatever, but in their world all that
matters is how much money you make -- and then they said, "But she
doesn't have the killer instinct."  They said this as if it was a
serious lack.  I don't know that they knew I heard that conversation.  I
did not respond because I was too appalled for words and also knew that
there would have been no point in responding.  To them life is about the
killer instinct as in screwing whoever you can find to screw in order to
gain.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:

> Middle America also has larger yards with houses set back nicely from the
> street.

And you consider this a plus?  We have very different opinions re large
yards.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:

> No they don't.   When you prick JMW, he does not bleed.  He is the one
> wordsler who does not need his feelings validated.

    Does this mean that, like James Kerry, I'm newly Jewish?

JM "Roses are redish, violets are blueish..." W.

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02003-02-16 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >I speak for the teeming masses and you for a freakazoid Californian
> >minority. *I* am turned off by "interpersonal" crap in the wrong place,
> >and so is every single one of my personal acquaintances who use the
> >web.
>
> Might it be that you're dealing with a slightly skewed sample? Naaah...

Only slightly, thank god ... but let me go ahead and ask a
few people anyway ...

> >Guess who will be attracted by more personal stuff at this stage?
> >You got it--fifty-six more techie white Californians talking vague
> >visionary sociology.
>
> Um... that may very well be the target audience, particularly if
> they're opinion-leaders (which they probably are).

Which "opinion-leaders" start a social revolution?

> Well, we agree on that -- the trick is how to make it
> distinguishable. Technobabble won't.

Using a word like "technobabble" quashes the argument. So let
me ask exactly why you involved technobabble in this, and are
your intentions honorable ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 19:51:32 2003
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In the spirit of descriptive linguistics, and similar to "google" but at
smaller scale, a new verb:

"lazyweb," to make public a wish for something that ought to be done, but
which won't be done by the speaker because it is too low priority, but
expressed with the desire that it be done by someone else with different
priorities.

Inspired by the creation of <http://www.lazyweb.org/>.  Doesn't mean the
wish was actually posted to the web site.

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 19:51:33 2003
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Bonnie:
> It still gives me an involuntary shudder to think I am talking to someone
> who is sitting in close proximity to an erg.

You said yourself that you were a Has Been, and wasn't it the Charles River
Association of Sculling Has-Beens? So, you're still involved. :D

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:22:13 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Actually, I keep hoping to find a way to fix it, but so far, I
> haven't.

Is this the old Eudora thing where you have to change the settings to
"replyall" or whatever?  Surely the answer to that is no since surely
you were aware of that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Monday, February 17, 2003, 7:22:13 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Is this the old Eudora thing where you have to change the settings to
> "replyall" or whatever?  Surely the answer to that is no since surely
> you were aware of that.

First thing I tried.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 19:51:33 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Really, do
> > you think you're going to be just scraping by the rest of your
> > life.
>
> Actually, yes. I think it's extremely unlikely that I'll ever be
> able to earn as much money as I was making before.

That wasn't Steph's question.  Or at least not as I read her question.
Unless what you were "making before" was quite tiny, then making less
than that would not necessarily mean "jsut scraping by."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Monday, February 17, 2003, 7:31:06 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > Really, do
>> > you think you're going to be just scraping by the rest of your
>> > life.
>>
>> Actually, yes. I think it's extremely unlikely that I'll ever be
>> able to earn as much money as I was making before.

> That wasn't Steph's question.  Or at least not as I read her question.
> Unless what you were "making before" was quite tiny, then making less
> than that would not necessarily mean "jsut scraping by."

Given that I have no retirement money at all any more, I'd have
to earn a lot more money than I was making before I was laid off
to not be scraping by now.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 19:51:33 2003
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Man, this is a lumberyard of unsound bloatware ideas all right ...
"I want one more button on my remote" ha ha ha ha ... the pages
display OK in w3m, though, mercifully ...

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On Friday, February 14, 2003 at 17:36, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> AS forwarded:
>
> > L'éditorial du Monde
>
> I'm glad to see that it refers to things like l'administration Bush and
> son parti.  Iow, NotInOurName, etc.

A readable translation from the Globe & Mail:
=============================
Translated by Ray Conlogue

Today's editorial in Le Monde:
To save time and avoid repeating ourselves, let's sum it up: We
French are pusillanimous, "Munichized" to the bottom of our souls,
habitually venial, reliably anti-Semitic, and, it goes without
saying, relentlessly anti-American. And let's not forget: we are also
"old."

This, at any rate, is how a certain element of the American press
sees us. One of the Washington Post's lead commentators writes that
France has cultivated only one kind of expertise since 1870, that of
retreating and fleeing. The New York Post accuses France of an
ignoble lack of gratitude: we have forgotten the GIs' sacrifices
during the Second World War! On its opinion page, the Wall Street
Journal permits British journalist Christopher Hitchens to describe
Jacques Chirac as a "rat that tried to roar" by way of transforming
France into "the procurer for Saddam."

And the crime that has inspired these denunciations? Paris has
refused to submit itself to [the Bush] administration's policy on
Iraq. . . . The most commonly expressed sentiment among American
pundits is that this refusal has only one possible explanation: a
crude and low calculation of France's economic self-interest, a
policy perfumed with oil. It's no consolation to point out that this
is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black. It's the
mirror image of the caricature of America so often expressed on our
side of the Atlantic, of a gang of trigger-happy cowboys deputized by
a simple-minded fundamentalist preacher.

Nor is it comforting to be reminded by American researcher Simon
Serfaty that francophobia is a sentiment widely shared by members of
[Mr. Bush's] political party. Equally useless is the observation that
books denouncing anti-Americanism are best sellers in France. In vain
do we suggest that at least two elements of Paris's position deserve
at least a thoughtful discussion: 1) Iraq does not present a danger
sufficient to justify war; and 2) A war against an Arab country is
exactly what [terrorist leader] Osama bin Laden is hoping for.

We live in a time of caricature. And what might seem to be little
more than the blathering of the yellow press is nonetheless
revealing: The general tone of the media on the other side of the
Atlantic echoes what is privately whispered about France (and
Germany) in certain official Washington circles. Not all. In public,
on Tuesday, President Bush spoke with forced serenity and a desire to
minimize the Franco-American rift. And Jacques Chirac reminds those
in his circle that France and the U.S. have shared interests that are
more important than the conflict over Iraq.

There's a final observation to be made about the volley of disdain
directed at France by the American press. At a time when information
is being globalized, when contacts of every description are
multiplying, when communication is instantaneous, whether through CNN
or the Internet, when we have 24-hour news, stereotyping is not dead.
On the contrary. In the global village, the cliché is still king.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 19:52:07 2003
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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:49:51 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Bitch clothes
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 7:00:20 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
This book was more like James Bond than a real mystery.

>>

That's OK; I read my first James Bond when I was 10.  Dad took
the book away from me and said that a kid my age shouldn't be
reading a book like that.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:00:48 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:58:40 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         See, you need to move to St. Louis.  Then we could have 'em
> together!  It would be CT-fest '03.

So Dr. Bean (was that the name?) said today that you should have a
CATscan?  What else did he say?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:01:58 -0500
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>  Re cream of mushroom soup, does anybody just eat it as soup?  I've always
thought
> of it as an <ingredient>.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I've eaten as soup regularly, but not in the past few years. Now I use it
only for my chicken in sour cream sauce, which is one of my favorite dishes.

Today I made Campbells' tomato soup, but doctored it up with some dried
tarragon, a few slurps of Worcestershire, and some crushed red pepper
flakes. While I love the soup plain, this was utterly transformed and quite
delicious. The tarragon lent a sweetness that was just wonderful.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:05:12 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:02:59 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>   In fact, I still rather like
> it.  It's so much crunchier than the other lettuces.

But it has no taste (not to mention no nutritional value).

> I do appreciate a
> mixed greens salad, however, when nicely dressed with a bit of cheese and nuts.

I love mixed green salads (interesting wording there -- it seems to
<mix>, so to speak, "green salad," which is what I'd say in the US, with
"mixed salad," which is what I'd say in parts of Europe).  But I prefer
my salads with greener lettuce than iceberg.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:03:24 EST
Subject: today
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Well, I signed the paperwork, made arrangements to get my vacation
pay, and handed in my swipe and associate discount cards.  I feel
as if someone has died.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:06:01 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:03:54 -0600
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         I'm not dead, yet.

And for this we are thankful.  But what did the doctor say today about
your situation?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:04:55 -0600
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            <007501c2d6ab$d2a7d000$647d7643@greenery1865jd>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >Would you (or would Bonnie) consider something like
> >perfectly prepared chittlins sophisticated?
>
> No.
>
> >  What about crawfish, cooked
> >with exactly the right spices and <touch>?
>
> Yes.
>
> >  What about perfect hushpuppies?
>
> No.
>
> >Or a goat roasted on a spit with exactly the right basting
> >on the outside and the cooking time ideal for making the texture vary?
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> Yes.

Why (to all of the above)?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tushar Samant writes,

>Man, this is a lumberyard of unsound bloatware ideas all right ...

It was actually very cool for a short time, with high-quality, thoughtful
ideas.  But it's also the kind of thing that was bound to jump the shark
quickly.

Pete

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From: "Alan Wild" <awild@uri.edu>
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Subject: By now...
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:09:02 -0500
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... Bonnie & Clyde are starting to see some crystalline precip.  It's comin'
right down your pike folks.

'Gotta love a real Winter.  Last year's was a dud.  I know they're harsh on
some folks, but a little prep goes a long way.

'Alan

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:12:54 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:10:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>  although I might pass
> on the chitlins ;)

Me too.  I don't eat chitlins, though I've known people who loved them.
And I know they require <skill> to cook.  A good friend, now dead, used
to cook them for a male friend of hers who also loved them, while the
male's wife and her husband went and spent the day at the country club
because neither of them could stand to be in a house where chittlins
were being cooked.

> well-cooked regional and ethnic dishes that people actually like
> instead of eating them because they think they ought to like them.

That's one thing I've never quite understood -- why some people seem to
think that they <ought to> like certain things.  Like it shows that
they're <sophisticated> or something.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:14:46 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:12:39 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> I certainly hope so. But I just thought that since Rashmi was in a
> shoveling mood...

Rashmi is also an excellent plant-waterer.  I think I've mentioned that
before.

> high. They just said that the heaviest snow is coming between now and 3
> am. I wonder if there will be more than 24" then.

I trust that your oxygen supply is in good shape.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:13:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 7:17:26 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> To them life is about the killer instinct as in screwing
> whoever you can find to screw in order to gain.

I do think that lacking the killer instinct can sometimes be a
serious lack. Sometimes this lack causes people to be taken
advantage of. That being said, I don't think I really have a
killer instinct.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel nor a stone killer.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:17:06 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:15:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:03:24 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> Well, I signed the paperwork, made arrangements to get my vacation
> pay, and handed in my swipe and associate discount cards.  I feel
> as if someone has died.

Yeah. Someone evil. Did you have an exit interview?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:18:28 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Bitch clothes
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> On 17 Feb 2003 at 16:35, Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> > Her name was Harriet, but I'm almost certain her last name wasn't
> > Vance. I'll have to go look.

> Harriet Vane

*Thank* you. That would have tormented me until I made time to go dig it out
and look.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:17:13 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Iow, I find this thing about regions a bit questionable in many ways.
>
> Well, I have been through three dramatic changes of regions in
> the past few years, and I think you're wrong.

You are free to think that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:15:12 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Yeah. Someone evil. Did you have an exit interview?


>>

That was the paperwork I filled out and signed.  No real
interview.

Why do I feel like crying now?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:21:45 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > If you were invited to dinner at somebody's house and noticed (with
> > understandable horror) that the salad was made with iceberg lettuce,
> > would you say, "Sorry, but I cannot let iceberg lettuce pass my lips" or
> > "I can't eat salads," or just leave the salad untouched and say
> > nothing?
>
> Why would I say anything?

You notice that saying nothing was one of the options in my
multiple-choice answer above.  If I were allergic to iceberg lettuce,
that is the option I would choose also.

> I would try to eat everything else and the leafier parts of the
> salad. That's what I do in restaurants that serve that.

What would the leafier parts be?

> >  My anti-icebergness doesn't go that far.  I would go on and
> > eat at least some of the salad.  But I wouldn't be happy.
>
> Food was put here for our enjoyment. I'm not eating food that
> doesn't make me happy.

It is quite obvious that you love food.  But not everybody shares your
attitudes toward it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:12:05 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, Evelyn Duncan wrote:

>Well, I signed the paperwork, made arrangements to get my vacation
>pay, and handed in my swipe and associate discount cards.  I feel
>as if someone has died.

Remember - death precedes resurrection.

Bethany

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:22:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:17:13 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > Iow, I find this thing about regions a bit questionable in many ways.
>>
>> Well, I have been through three dramatic changes of regions in
>> the past few years, and I think you're wrong.

> You are free to think that.

Thank you.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:23:45 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:18:58 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> Why do I feel like crying now?

Because it's over.

You need to play the Roy Orbison song, then something upbeat.:)

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 18:26:17 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: introduction
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> > Um... that may very well be the target audience, particularly if
> > they're opinion-leaders (which they probably are).
>
> Which "opinion-leaders" start a social revolution?

The ones who can ;)

More specifically, the ones who are connected or extroverted or expert
enough that people listen too them when they have something to say.

> > Well, we agree on that -- the trick is how to make it
> > distinguishable. Technobabble won't.
>
> Using a word like "technobabble" quashes the argument. So let
> me ask exactly why you involved technobabble in this, and are
> your intentions honorable ...

I haven't had an honorable intention in years, at least not where you're
concerned. Verbing is a form of technobabble. Taking a perfectly good word
like architecture and applying it to an intangible is arguably technobabble.
A whole lot of the adjectives I used to have to use writing high-tech copy
were ultratechnobabble -- Clyde summed up the feeling, although the words
themselves have changed in the last 15 years ("state-of-the-art" was big
back then, and now it's "leading edge" or even "bleeding edge";
"positioning" has become "branding"; "connectivity" has sprung from nowhere
(and thus is arguably a more useful or necessary word).

If an engineer can read a promotional piece and tell exactly what's meant,
but a reasonably intelligent layman cannot, there's almost certainly a high
percentage of technobabble. Which is fine for spec sheets and documentation,
but not so hot for promotional writing, where you can't be sure who the
final decisionmaker is or what his or her background might be.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:25:27 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: lazyweb.org
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02003-02-17 | Peter Kaminski <kaminski@ISTORI.COM> writes:
> Tushar Samant writes,
>
> >Man, this is a lumberyard of unsound bloatware ideas all right ...
>
> It was actually very cool for a short time, with high-quality, thoughtful
> ideas.  But it's also the kind of thing that was bound to jump the shark
> quickly.

I only saw the first page.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:25:50 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:21:45 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> You notice that saying nothing was one of the options in my
> multiple-choice answer above.  If I were allergic to iceberg lettuce,
> that is the option I would choose also.

If I were allergic, I might warn them ahead of time. Depends.

>> I would try to eat everything else and the leafier parts of the
>> salad. That's what I do in restaurants that serve that.

> What would the leafier parts be?

The tips of the leaves.

>> >  My anti-icebergness doesn't go that far.  I would go on and
>> > eat at least some of the salad.  But I wouldn't be happy.
>>
>> Food was put here for our enjoyment. I'm not eating food that
>> doesn't make me happy.

> It is quite obvious that you love food.  But not everybody shares your
> attitudes toward it.

Did I ask you to share my attitude?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:24:35 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: no CT scan
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>        See, you need to move to St. Louis.  Then we could have 'em
>>together!  It would be CT-fest '03.
>>
>
> So Dr. Bean (was that the name?) said today that you should have a
> CATscan?  What else did he say?


        Well, Dr. Bean looked at my pee results and said I don't have
a UTI, but that it is indeed highly bloody. Then he thumped
and squeezed me in assorted spots, which yielded no clues.
He then looked at my chart and saw my bp (190/100) and told
the nurse to bring in more drugs over his walkie talkie.  He
then wrote up the test order and said he didn't know what
what was going on, and thus needs a nice detailed picture of
my innards.  He mentioned that he once upon a time saw a
case of tuberculosis of the kidneys, but that was extremely
unlikely.  He also said something about high bp sometimes
causing blood, but he didn't that that was it. I have to go
see a urologist when my test results are back.  And the
nurse took a vial of blood.





--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:25:36 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: today
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:18:58 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
>>Why do I feel like crying now?
>>
>
> Because it's over.
>
> You need to play the Roy Orbison song, then something upbeat.:)
>


        Because you've worked there a long time... it's a big life
change.  You'll feel better about it in a couple of weeks.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:33:34 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:31:28 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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            <a05200f16ba771b7afb84@[67.118.125.98]>
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02003-02-17 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> That's one thing I've never quite understood -- why some people seem to
> think that they <ought to> like certain things.  Like it shows that
> they're <sophisticated> or something.

When I first heard something called "jazz" I didn't like it at all.
But I felt I *ought to* like it, because it was clear to me--by seeing
people who did like it--that it would be rewarding. Hence, I listened
and listened until I started liking many different strains of jazz,
and indeed it is enjoyable and rewarding. Why put Love At First Sight
on such a pedestal anyway?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:35:22 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:33:06 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] today
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:22:13 PM Central Standard Time,
dumasb@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU writes:

<<
Remember - death precedes resurrection.

>>

Yes, but it is pretty scary going through the process.
I just wish someone would take me out, go to a movie
and dinner, and tell me that I've done the right thing.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:37:29 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:35:36 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:33:06 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> I just wish someone would take me out, go to a movie
> and dinner, and tell me that I've done the right thing.

We would do that if we were there.

Evelyn, you have so clearly done the right thing.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:39:39 2003
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:23:48 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
You need to play the Roy Orbison song, then something upbeat.:)


>>

I need to go out or take a nap.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:41:51 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:40:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I have met Dossie, and I thought I would like to get to know her
better, but the feeling wasn't mutual.

So is this pie open, or double crusted?

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:45:56 2003
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:26:29 PM Central Standard Time,
rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<
        Because you've worked there a long time... it's a big life
change.  You'll feel better about it in a couple of weeks.

>>

Yeah, I guess so.  I just wonder what to do about Annegret. :)

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:48:13 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:46:03 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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"RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" wrote:
>
> Natalie:
> > The New Orleans satsumas have suffered from the cold.
>
> Please, woman, the wounds are still open.
>
> Satsumas are one of my favorite fruits.

Aha.  So it wasn't just my friend's excuse when he mentioned that the
less-good satsumas today were because of the cold weather.  I thought
maybe his parents' satsuma tree had maybe become generally <tainted>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re:      today
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:52:59 -0600
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> Well, I signed the paperwork, made arrangements to get my vacation
> pay, and handed in my swipe and associate discount cards.  I feel
> as if someone has died.
>
> Evelyn Duncan

Look at it this way:
Maybe you have just started to
become awake.

          - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:54:57 2003
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"RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" wrote:

> I'm rather fond of BSL, now that you mention it.

Oh good.  You can come visit me there.  I really am at least somewhat
serious in this thought about retiring there.  I'll be more serious one
way or another after going down there spring break and eyeballing it and
<feeling> it.

Is there still a parking lot near the Jax Brewery in New Orleans, btw?
I'm not planning on going to NO on the spring break trip, but I was
wondering about that recently.  I don't think I've been to NO since that
day I visited you in your office right after getting my Japanese work
visa.  (And I didn't park at the Jax Brewery that day.  I parked
somewhere near the Japanese Consulate and then headed out to your
campus.)  I guess the last time I parked in the Jax parking lot was the
day I met JAG while leaning on a lightpost near the Cafe du Monde and
then met various others of you shortly thereafter.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:54:57 2003
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:35:39 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Evelyn, you have so clearly done the right thing.


>>

I know.  It just takes some getting used to.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:54:58 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:52:59 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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A nonsense word. Like floopsnargle.

What is your favorite nonsense word?

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 20:55:45 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:53:37 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         It is.  I have another drug now.  And I'll have pretty
> pictures of my kidneys next week.  I don't have a UTI.

Get that scanner ready.  You need to post your kidney pictures.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:52:28 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: today
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:26:29 PM Central Standard Time,
> rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:
>
> <<
>         Because you've worked there a long time... it's a big life
> change.  You'll feel better about it in a couple of weeks.
>
>
>
> Yeah, I guess so.  I just wonder what to do about Annegret. :)


        Annegret will take care of herself, in more ways than one.
Always save your best energy for yourself.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 21:00:04 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:58:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:53:37 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:

>>         It is.  I have another drug now.  And I'll have pretty
>> pictures of my kidneys next week.  I don't have a UTI.

> Get that scanner ready.  You need to post your kidney pictures.

She doesn't have a scanner.

Which reminds me, Rita, are you interested in possessing a
scanner?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 21:12:31 2003
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:49:48 PM Central Standard Time,
dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM writes:

<<
Look at it this way:
Maybe you have just started to
become awake.


>>

As in "this long national nightmare is over"?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 21:12:32 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:59:02 -0600
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:52:28 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
> Always save your best energy for yourself.

Words to live by!

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: I need...
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:02:03 -0500
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> What is your favorite nonsense word?

Ratsinfracken.

A distant second is ishkabibble.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:56:45 PM Central Standard Time,
rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<
        Annegret will take care of herself, in more ways than one.
Always save your best energy for yourself.

>>

Yeah, but I hate to see her get away with things.  But maybe I
should hope to see her get her wish:  to have the department to
herself; she'll have to work 7 days a week from open to close.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:07:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Given that I have no retirement money at all any more, I'd have
> to earn a lot more money than I was making before I was laid off
> to not be scraping by now.

I don't follow this.  Or is it that you mean you would have to put most
of the money you made into a retirement fund and would thus be scraping
by with what was left over?  It may well be true that there will be no
social security left after Dubya screws it up.  My mother lived on
social security in her old age (from Daddy's working years -- the fact
that he worked until his business closed when he was 75 helped -- her ss
income was pretty decent).

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Alan Wild" <awild@uri.edu>
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usufruct - quite real, but fruct up anyway...

;-)  'Alan


----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Kay" <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2003 9:52 PM
Subject: I need...


> A nonsense word. Like floopsnargle.
>
> What is your favorite nonsense word?
>
> Karen
> "One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only
yesterday."
>    -Eeyore

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: I need...
Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:08:53 -0500
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> Ratsinfracken.
>
> A distant second is ishkabibble.

I lied. Ratsinfracken is the irritation word - whooseything or
whatshis/herface is used when I can't remember the name of a thing or a
person. Ishkabibble I don't use but like the sound of.

--Adam

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 21:44:43 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:13:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:08:53 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
>> Ratsinfracken.
>>
>> A distant second is ishkabibble.

> I lied. Ratsinfracken is the irritation word

That makes sense to me.

> - whooseything or whatshis/herface is used when I can't
> remember the name of a thing or a person. Ishkabibble I don't
> use but like the sound of.

For some reason, I think it's a real word. I'll have to look into
it.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 21:44:43 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 19:11:28 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Dossie's pie
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> I have met Dossie, and I thought I would like to get to know her
> better, but the feeling wasn't mutual.

Ah well. She is often swamped with fans and sometimes is more curt than she
would otherwise wish to be. (So, for that matter, am I.)

> So is this pie open, or double crusted?

Double-crusted, as I recall.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:19:06 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         Well, Dr. Bean looked at my pee results and said I don't have
> a UTI, but that it is indeed highly bloody. Then he thumped
> and squeezed me in assorted spots, which yielded no clues.
> He then looked at my chart and saw my bp (190/100) and told
> the nurse to bring in more drugs over his walkie talkie.  He
> then wrote up the test order and said he didn't know what
> what was going on, and thus needs a nice detailed picture of
> my innards.  He mentioned that he once upon a time saw a
> case of tuberculosis of the kidneys, but that was extremely
> unlikely.  He also said something about high bp sometimes
> causing blood, but he didn't that that was it. I have to go
> see a urologist when my test results are back.  And the
> nurse took a vial of blood.

So you are taking the walkie-talkie-brought drugs now to get that bp
down, right?  I'm glad you went to see him.  And I am optimistic that
answers are going to be figured out and that all will be well.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:10:18 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:07:52 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I don't follow this.  Or is it that you mean you would have to put most
> of the money you made into a retirement fund and would thus be scraping
> by with what was left over?

Yes.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:41:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:39:33 PM, Michael E. Macmillan wrote:

> On 17 Feb 2003 at 21:25, Karen Kay wrote:

>> > Ish Kabibble was a musician during the Big Band Era.  I think
>> > he was with Spike Jones' band.
>>

> Actually, it was Kay Kyser's band.

Evelyn wrote that, not me.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:10:28 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:

> Today I made Campbells' tomato soup, but doctored it up with some dried
> tarragon, a few slurps of Worcestershire, and some crushed red pepper
> flakes. While I love the soup plain, this was utterly transformed and quite
> delicious. The tarragon lent a sweetness that was just wonderful.

Does Campbell soup fit with the diet you were talking about earlier?
Aren't most canned soups usually very salty and fat-filled?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:11:05 -0600
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:08:28 PM, Alan Wild wrote:
> usufruct - quite real, but fruct up anyway...

> ;-)  'Alan

Sorry, if it's real, I won't use it.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:11:26 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
> Well, I signed the paperwork, made arrangements to get my vacation
> pay, and handed in my swipe and associate discount cards.  I feel
> as if someone has died.

You should feel that someone is newly alive!  You're LIBERATED from
Sears at last!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:12:09 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:11:28 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>> I have met Dossie, and I thought I would like to get to know her
>> better, but the feeling wasn't mutual.

> Ah well. She is often swamped with fans and sometimes is more curt than she
> would otherwise wish to be. (So, for that matter, am I.)

Right. And that's fine. Makes my life less complicated.

>> So is this pie open, or double crusted?

> Double-crusted, as I recall.

Woohoo! I have A Likely Candidate.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:12:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I do think that lacking the killer instinct can sometimes be a
> serious lack. Sometimes this lack causes people to be taken
> advantage of. That being said, I don't think I really have a
> killer instinct.

It is a lack that I am quite happy to have.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
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BIG snout?

Betty

At 02:26 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, natalie@maynor.net wrote:
>Message: This is the one I adore -- the one that my first sending of seemed
>to vanish.
>
>
>I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Address:306  St.  George St.
>City   :Bay St. Louis, MS  39520
>
>Price :$129,900
>
>Precious shot gun cottage. Hardwood flrs, landscaped, fenced lot. Move
>right in real quality. Too many amenities to mention. Must see. Walk to
>stores & beach. Gas lantern on welcoming porch. Double fireplace. Stained
>glass windows, high ceilings  with fans.  Cypress doors and more
>
>To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/137941
>
>LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors
>www.latter-blum.com
>800 Common St., Suite 1000
>New Orleans, LA
>(800) 428-8294

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Try a few well-placed toasted sesame seeds.

How do you determine where to place them?

alyce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> Why do I feel like crying now?

Because it's the end of something, even though it was something that
should have ended.  And because it's traumatic to do something like
that.  I think feeling like crying is totally normal.  I can think of
lots of times I've cried upon occasions that were really good ones.  And
I'm not talking about "tears of joy" necessarily.  I'm talking about
tears that seemed to be tears of sadness and that did perhaps include
sadness, as in the end of something.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:15:47 -0500
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> Does Campbell soup fit with the diet you were talking about earlier?

Yes, it isn't the lowest-carb stuff I could eat, but I like it. I think each
can has about 25g carb. I've had to give up so many other foods I loved,
that eating some like this every once in a while is a great psychological
comfort. And it doesn't affect me physically, near as my meter will tell.

> Aren't most canned soups usually very salty and fat-filled?

Salty, yes. Fatty, not that I've noticed.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Please review this property listing found on www.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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This one for sure!  Do it.

BB

At 02:43 PM 2/16/2003 -0600, natalie@maynor.net wrote:
>Message: This is the one I've been looking at for ages -- the one we've
>discussed here in the past.  It's farther from the heart of town than those
>I discovered today are.
>
>
>I found this property on LATTER & BLUM Inc./Realtors's Website.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------
>Address:239  Carre Ct
>City   :Bay St Louis, MS  39520
>
>Price :$119,900
>
>Precious cottage cozy & charming. Pleasure to show. Gourmet kitchen,
>sunroom/sitting room. Workshop and very large covered carport for your
>vehicles or boat also has garage.  Wonderful neighbor close to beach. No
>flood insurance required high elevation.
>
>To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/134017
>
>LATTER & BLUM , Inc./Realtors Bay St. Louis
>www.latter-blum.com
>1188 Highway 90
>Bay St. Louis, MS 39520-2451
>(800) 215-4111

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:18:46 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:13:54 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Try a few well-placed toasted sesame seeds.

> How do you determine where to place them?

It's an art.:)

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 9:11:41 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
You should feel that someone is newly alive!  You're LIBERATED from
Sears at last!


>>

Yes!  I did get one good thing from Sears:  Sweetie.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 21:44:51 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:21:43 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > What would the leafier parts be?
>
> The tips of the leaves.

Are the tips of iceberg leaves leafier?  I've never noticed.

> > It is quite obvious that you love food.  But not everybody shares your
> > attitudes toward it.
>
> Did I ask you to share my attitude?

No more than I asked you to share mine when I said that I would go on
and eat at least some of the salad.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] I need...
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 9:13:31 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
For some reason, I think it's a real word. I'll have to look into
it.


>>

Ish Kabibble was a musician during the Big Band Era.  I think
he was with Spike Jones' band.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 21:44:52 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:25:13 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:23:05 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> In a message dated 02/17/2003 9:13:31 PM Central Standard Time,
> Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

> <<
> For some reason, I think it's a real word. I'll have to look into
> it.


>>>

> Ish Kabibble was a musician during the Big Band Era.  I think
> he was with Spike Jones' band.

Thanks.

He's out, too, Adam.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 21:44:53 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:27:24 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
> > That's one thing I've never quite understood -- why some people seem to
> > think that they <ought to> like certain things.  Like it shows that
> > they're <sophisticated> or something.
>
> When I first heard something called "jazz" I didn't like it at all.
> But I felt I *ought to* like it, because it was clear to me--by seeing
> people who did like it--that it would be rewarding. Hence, I listened
> and listened until I started liking many different strains of jazz,
> and indeed it is enjoyable and rewarding. Why put Love At First Sight
> on such a pedestal anyway?

Well, I trained myself to like coffee and beer.  So yes, I do see how
that can happen.  (I did it with coffee in college because people seemed
to enjoy drinking it for breakfast.  I did it with beer in Hague, New
York, because we'd go over there to a place called The Caves and order
pitchers of beer.)  But I don't know whether I thought of it in terms of
<ought to like it>.

I could go on about this subject, but I just looked at the clock and see
that the night has evaporated and that I need to turn off the computer.
Perhaps more later because I do think this is a worthy topic.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:27:35 EST
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 9:15:51 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
Because it's the end of something, even though it was something that
should have ended.  And because it's traumatic to do something like
that.
>>

This is the first time I've left a job due to my own decision.  The Akron
U. programming job ended due to budget cuts, and the Sears job in
Akron ended due to our moving to Tulsa.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Karen Kay writes,

>What is your favorite nonsense word?

Not my favorite, but Ethan just asked about letter frequencies for a puzzle
he's working on, and my first answer was "etaoin shrdlu," which sometimes
get used also as nonsense words (even if they're not nonsense in the right
context...).

Dunno why these come to mind, but from Little Mermaid: snarfblat, dinglehopper.

Lewis Carroll and Theodor Geisel have really good nonsense.

Pete

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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D.M:

>Good for you!

Funny thing is last year all winter we got something like 4"
of snow whereas this time when I have a driveway to
shovel we get 2 feet and something like 6 storms already.

Great introduction to homeownership.

-rashmi

PS Sorry Alyce I'll pass on coming up. Maybe when I get one
of 'em electric snowblowers ...



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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:30:10 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
> Dunno why these come to mind, but from Little Mermaid: snarfblat, dinglehopper.

Thank you. I think I'll use one of those.

> Lewis Carroll and Theodor Geisel have really good nonsense.

True, but they may be too well known.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:31:35 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> PS Sorry Alyce I'll pass on coming up. Maybe when I get one
> of 'em electric snowblowers ...

Two words: Snow Scoop.

You probably can't buy them there, but they are *wonderful*. Even
*I* enjoy moving snow with them. It's good back and belly
exercise.

Aha!  http://www.snowscoop.com/

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
>am. I wonder if there will be more than 24" then.

It's stopping here now, I think, at least for the most part. I just went out
to my table on the deck with a yard stick. 21". Which is nothing compared to
down in Maryland -- where I heard a report of 49" ! What was your final,
rashmeeber?

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 21:44:57 2003
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Pete:

>he's working on, and my first answer was "etaoin shrdlu," which sometimes
>get used also as nonsense words (even if they're not nonsense in the right

1991 alert! I'd forgotten all about "etaoin shrdlu".

There's your word, Karen.

-rashmi


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On 17 Feb 2003 at 21:25, Karen Kay wrote:

> > Ish Kabibble was a musician during the Big Band Era.  I think
> > he was with Spike Jones' band.
>

Actually, it was Kay Kyser's band.


     mem

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>From: bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM>
>in jello.   But iceberg lettuce is still the norm in northern
>Wisconsin.   I never learned that it sucked.   In fact, I still rather like
>it.  It's so much crunchier than the other lettuces.

Refreshing, actually, like edible ice water.

Marie

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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:38:29 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> Pete:

>>he's working on, and my first answer was "etaoin shrdlu," which sometimes
>>get used also as nonsense words (even if they're not nonsense in the right

> 1991 alert! I'd forgotten all about "etaoin shrdlu".

> There's your word, Karen.

Too hard to pronounce.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:41:59 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> 02003-02-17 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> > It is because almost everything ever written for PC users, Windows
> > users, and most general software users is written crappily that I
> > am not better at computer things. I cannot understand a word of it
> > because it all was written by illiterates.
>
> At the risk of descending to a variety snobbishness which is SO
> yesterday--there are several documents about, say, Unix products
> which are masterpieces of literary expression compared to the
> crap you are talking about.

Certainly I shall not argue with you. Never have I seen any Unix
documentation, so I cannot comment upon it. I cannot understand the
things in my everyday life--things that come to me from Microsoft,
Netscape, and all of the software packages that are my misfortune to
have to use.  Of course, I may have a reading comprehension problem.
Perhaps that is it, not the writers.

alyce

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 9:39:56 PM Central Standard Time, mem@FLEX.COM
writes:

<<
Actually, it was Kay Kyser's band.


>>

Did you know that Kay Kyser became the head of the
Church of Christ, Scientist for awhile?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Subject: Re: Happy Birthday, Clyde
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>You said yourself that you were a Has Been, and wasn't it the Charles River
>Association of Sculling Has-Beens? So, you're still involved. :D
>--Adam

Nice catch Adam.  You are correct.


    --bonniev

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>Well, I signed the paperwork, made arrangements to get my vacation
>pay, and handed in my swipe and associate discount cards.  I feel
>as if someone has died.
>Evelyn Duncan

I would think you would feel instead like someone was reborn.


    --bonniev

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> > >Or a goat roasted on a spit with exactly the right basting
> > >on the outside and the cooking time ideal for making the texture vary?
> > >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
> >
> > Yes.
>
>Why (to all of the above)?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Don't get bogged down in facts in the real world.  It's just my gut feeling
and you should respect it.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:57:26 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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John Williams wrote:>
>     Does this mean that, like James Kerry,

John, not James.

alyce

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> > By the way, Tushar, there is a stout brewed here on the island which is
> > markedly superior to [G]; you should come here and try it.
>
>Finally, a locality where the residents claim this!

It isn't just the locals who claim this.  There was some kind of
international competition tasting or something.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:58:10 -0500
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>... Bonnie & Clyde are starting to see some crystalline precip.  It's comin'
>right down your pike folks.

It's 11 p.m. and we have not seen a single flake of snow so far.

>'Gotta love a real Winter.  Last year's was a dud.  I know they're harsh on
>some folks, but a little prep goes a long way.
>'Alan

I agree.


    --bonniev

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>bonniev wrote:
> > Bar Harbor has less than 3000 people.
>
>I'm surprised in that population that you haven't run into my friend the
>Blaneys yet.  They live on the island in summer but live in BH in
>winter.       -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Yes, Natalie.  I know all about your friends the Blaneys.  You have told me
many times.  You forget I'm a recluse.   I probably only know about 30 of
the 3000 people who live in Bar Harbor.


    --bonniev

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>bonniev wrote:
> > Middle America also has larger yards with houses set back nicely from the
> > street.
>
>And you consider this a plus?  We have very different opinions re large
>yards.   -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I think some yard is better than no yard.   I don't like it when houses are
so close together that you can reach out a window and touch the house next
door.  I don't like it when people walking past the house can see what  you
are watching on TV.


    --bonniev

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Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> but I think you might simply be unable to understand that a monster raving star chef is able to launch a "pre-respected"
> restaurant overnight.

That is beyond my ken, unless the chef has very influential PR people.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> I don't know anything about this new "Music Man."  Has the time setting
> been changed?

It was on TV last night, a Disney production. No the time has not been
changed, which is why the mixture of the cast was amusing. Iowa never
looked like that 100 years ago.
There is a Music Man museum in Mason City, with the original sets and
more.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:51:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:48:07 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>> but I think you might simply be unable to understand that a monster raving star chef is able to launch a "pre-respected"
>> restaurant overnight.

> That is beyond my ken, unless the chef has very influential PR people.

It's part of futureshock: the world changes amazingly rapidly
these days.

The bloggers know this.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> >
> We should be marching for English-only legislation, n'est-ce pas?

Thanks for my first LOL in a couple of days.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> bonniev wrote:
>
> > Middle America also has larger yards with houses set back nicely from the
> > street.
>
> And you consider this a plus?  We have very different opinions re large
> yards.

I think it was by way of explaining why there are not sidewalks in a lot
of eastern towns--the houses are very near the roads, so there isn't
room for them.

alyce

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 9:55:52 PM Central Standard Time,
bonniev@PANAX.COM writes:

<<
I would think you would feel instead like someone was reborn.

>>

That will come in time.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> bonniev wrote:
> >   In fact, I still rather like
> > it.  It's so much crunchier than the other lettuces.
>
> But it has no taste (not to mention no nutritional value).
>
It is fiber. And it beats drinking the dressing from the bottle. Salad
dressing needs something to be on, after all.

alyce

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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
> Why do I feel like crying now?

Because it is the end of a certain part of your life. But it is not the
end of your life. It is the beginning of a new part, a good part, and
you will be happy.

alyce

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>>From: bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM>
>>in jello.   But iceberg lettuce is still the norm in northern
>>Wisconsin.   I never learned that it sucked.   In fact, I still rather like
>>it.  It's so much crunchier than the other lettuces.
>
>Refreshing, actually, like edible ice water.
>Marie

Yes.  Exactly.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:17:57 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

> my bp (190/100)

Mercy. Relax. Lie down. Rest.

alyce

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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>  tell me that I've done the right thing.

You have done the right thing. From the first time I met you, you were
complaining about Sears. It cannot have made you happy. Now Sears can
never aggravate you again and you will be happy. Truly.

alyce

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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>  I just wonder what to do about Annegret. :)

Why do you have to anything about her other than forget her?

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> You probably can't buy them there, but they are *wonderful*. Even
> *I* enjoy moving snow with them. It's good back and belly
> exercise.

I doubt they'd work on 20-24".

alyce

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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:
> Actually, it was Kay Kyser's band.

Dorky looking with a funny "bowl" haircut. His real name was Merwyn
Bogue. Ish Kabibble was two words, not one.

alyce

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On 17 Feb 2003 at 22:45, Evelyn Duncan--or was it Karen Kay?--wrote:

> Did you know that Kay Kyser became the head of the
> Church of Christ, Scientist for awhile?

I didn't. I'm amazed at the obscure things you sometimes pull out of
your hoard of forgotten lore.

    mem

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>I'm sure you know best, Alyce, but they were developed in the
>U.P., where they are known to get a little snow now and then. I
>used one easily on over a foot of snow. (And made my sister take
>pictures, since it was probably the last time I would shovel
>snow.)      Karen, Not a practical-minded weasel

The people across the street have one.  What I don't understand is how the
snow dumps out of it.   When we shovel our driveway, now after there is
already four feet of snow on the ground, we have to lift and throw the snow
up on the bank.  How would you do that with this scoop thing?


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:39:23 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I'm sure you know best, Alyce, but they were developed in the
> U.P., where they are known to get a little snow now and then.

So why do you say that they likely would not be available here if they
are intended for heavy snow such as we have here? Do you mean that the
U.P. wants to keep them out of others' hands?

alyce

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:53:02 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 10:46:16 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> But how do you get the scoop up on top of the four feet of it that is
> already there in order to dump it?

You slide it. I don't think you could do this easily with more
than 3 or 4 feet of snow, but like I said, you *can* easily
distribute the snow over a larger area, so it doesn't all have to
stay next to your driveway.

> I mean to say that there is a hell of
> a lot of snow around here and in Maine already. There are "walls" well
> over my head around my driveway.

How do they throw more snow on top of that?!

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Monday, February 17, 2003, 10:50:53 PM, bonniev wrote:
> Certainly, once you've built up a bank, it would be difficult to
> walk up that bank pushing a scoop full of snow.

No, it's really not. You just dig in with your legs. This thing
is amazingly ergonomic. If you can row, you can do this. Or mow a
lawn. My lawnmower weighs 86 pounds or something, and I can push
it fairly easily. The snow scoop is pretty much the same thing.
Really. Weak women and children can use this.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:57:21 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 10:53:02 PM, Karen Kay wrote:
> You slide it. I don't think you could do this easily with more
> than 3 or 4 feet of snow,

I guess this depends on how tall you are. At 4 feet of snow,
that's awfully close to being as tall as me, which means it would
be very hard to push up.

Karen

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02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> It's part of futureshock: the world changes amazingly rapidly
> these days.
>
> The bloggers know this.

I will be sure to make a note of it ...

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In a message dated 02/17/2003 10:13:12 PM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Because it is the end of a certain part of your life. But it is not the
end of your life. It is the beginning of a new part, a good part, and
you will be happy.

>>

I think so, too.  At least, I won't have to put up with Annegret and
Erin anymore.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:33:06 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 10:27:00 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> You probably can't buy them there, but they are *wonderful*. Even
>> *I* enjoy moving snow with them. It's good back and belly
>> exercise.

> I doubt they'd work on 20-24".

I'm sure you know best, Alyce, but they were developed in the
U.P., where they are known to get a little snow now and then. I
used one easily on over a foot of snow. (And made my sister take
pictures, since it was probably the last time I would shovel
snow.)

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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02003-02-17 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
> >
> > 02003-02-17 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> > > It is because almost everything ever written for PC users, Windows
> > > users, and most general software users is written crappily that I
> > > am not better at computer things. I cannot understand a word of it
> > > because it all was written by illiterates.
> >
> > At the risk of descending to a variety snobbishness which is SO
> > yesterday--there are several documents about, say, Unix products
> > which are masterpieces of literary expression compared to the
> > crap you are talking about.
>
> Certainly I shall not argue with you.

Why? (I am researching techniques to shut people up.)

>                                       Never have I seen any Unix
> documentation, so I cannot comment upon it. I cannot understand the
> things in my everyday life--things that come to me from Microsoft,
> Netscape, and all of the software packages that are my misfortune to
> have to use.  Of course, I may have a reading comprehension problem.
> Perhaps that is it, not the writers.

Maybe it will be easier to bear if I tell you that there is
a ton of Unix literature which is horrendously bad.

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X-Cliff-Stoll: Computers hide mistakes in logic while sanctifying information
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 20:33:18 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
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>I think he has a very healthy psyche and thus does not need constant
><validation>.  But, even though I have no evidence to the contrary, I'm
>not so sure about your assumption that he's a non-bleeder.
>
>--
> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Being that he is the Prime Meeber, he does not bleed.  Perhaps, on
occasion, he transpires.

Ken Miller
First Acolyte of the Fifth Third Church of Meeber

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:40:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 10:35:21 PM, bonniev wrote:
> The people across the street have one.  What I don't understand is how the
> snow dumps out of it.   When we shovel our driveway, now after there is
> already four feet of snow on the ground, we have to lift and throw the snow
> up on the bank.

And this, my fellow meebers, is how people a) wreck their backs
and b) have heart attacks.

>  How would you do that with this scoop thing?

You slide the scoop and upend it--push the handle over as far as
you can till the snow dumps out. The beauty part is that you can
do this over and over again--we ended dumping some of it almost
on the middle of my sister's lawn. The edges were built up so
hard from repeated dumpings, we could just walk over them.

My sister liked hers so much, another sister bought one and they
both swear by them.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 23:05:48 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:44:18 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 10:39:23 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> So why do you say that they likely would not be available here if they
> are intended for heavy snow such as we have here? Do you mean that the
> U.P. wants to keep them out of others' hands?

I said that they probably wouldn't be available there because
they didn't even used to be sold in Lower Michigan--the marketers
thought there wasn't enough snow. Now they are sold in Lower
Michigan, but I didn't know they were sold on the web. My other
sister who has one couldn't buy it in Illinois. It's interesting
to me that Bonnie's neighbors have one, because I haven't heard
anyone else outside of Michigan know what I was talking about
when I mentioned then.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 23:05:49 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> You slide the scoop and upend it--push the handle over as far as
> you can till the snow dumps out.

But how do you get the scoop up on top of the four feet of it that is
already there in order to dump it? I mean to say that there is a hell of
a lot of snow around here and in Maine already. There are "walls" well
over my head around my driveway.

alyce

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bonniev wrote:
>
> It's 11 p.m. and we have not seen a single flake of snow so far.

Should be there soon, I think. It has until 7 am to do its thing here,
they just said, and then it will be coming to you. I cannot imagine how
much I will see in the morning.
Prolly over two feet.

alyce

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>You slide the scoop and upend it--push the handle over as far as
>you can till the snow dumps out. The beauty part is that you can
>do this over and over again--we ended dumping some of it almost
>on the middle of my sister's lawn. The edges were built up so
>hard from repeated dumpings, we could just walk over them.
>Karen,

I really can't picture this.  I guess if you had a wide yard on both sides
of the driveway and were very sure that from the first snowfall of the
season you walked the snow a long way from the driveway, it might
work.  Otherwise, the driveway would get more and more narrow as the season
went on.  Certainly, once you've built up a bank, it would be difficult to
walk up that bank pushing a scoop full of snow.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 17 23:28:00 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:
> How do they throw more snow on top of that?!

Not easily. It is becoming something of a problem. That is why I don't
see how the scoop could work. I just looked outside and I cannot imagine
what they will do with all that just fell. It does seem to have stopped,
though. Looks like close to two feet. We have had 97+ inches of snow
this year, not counting the Christmas storm that was nearly two feet.
There has not been a lot of thawing, so most of it is still out there.
One good thing is that today's snow is light and powdery, not heavy and
clumpy. Paul has had more snow. I do not claim any records or anything.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 21:22:19 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Dossie's pie
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At 08:40 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>I have met Dossie, and I thought I would like to get to know her
>better, but the feeling wasn't mutual.

Is this the co-author?

Betty

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:31:25 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Dossie's pie
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 11:22:19 PM, Betty wrote:
> Is this the co-author?

Janet's co-author, yes.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 23:30:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 17, 2003, 11:09:17 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Not easily. It is becoming something of a problem. That is why I don't
> see how the scoop could work.

Since the scoop is easier to push, you can move the snow further
with less effort. That's all I can say.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 00:21:03 2003
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Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2003 22:14:33 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Dossie's pie
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> At 08:40 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> >I have met Dossie, and I thought I would like to get to know her
> >better, but the feeling wasn't mutual.
>
> Is this the co-author?

Yes. We've been friends and sweeties for more than 10 years now, and have
written four books together (six if you count the new editions of Topping
Book & Bottoming Book), and we're in the early stages of our next one. She's
a practicing therapist in SF.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:21:41 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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= > Karen Kay:
= > = Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:51:39 PM, you wrote:
= > =
= So, Karen, how long would it take you to type in the person's name? One
= second?
=
= alyce
=

That is not the point!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 00:29:05 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:27:11 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030218072711.B10977@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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= These are all considered pretty <mundane> around here.  Yet they strike
= me as fitting to some extent with what you said.
=
=  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

No one said that the mundane was not sophisticated.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 01:34:50 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:32:56 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Watch out, Rush
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Natalie Maynor:
= there would have been no point in responding.  To them life is about the
= killer instinct as in screwing whoever you can find to screw in order to
= gain.
=

This explains your mother's caretakers.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 01:46:31 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:28:02 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030218072802.C10977@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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            <007501c2d6ab$d2a7d000$647d7643@greenery1865jd>
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             bonniev@PANAX.COM on Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 06:08:04PM -0500
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Inconsistent.

bonniev:
= >Would you (or would Bonnie) consider something like
= >perfectly prepared chittlins sophisticated?
=
= No.
=
= >  What about crawfish, cooked
= >with exactly the right spices and <touch>?
=
= Yes.
=
= >  What about perfect hushpuppies?
=
= No.
=
= >Or a goat roasted on a spit with exactly the right basting
= >on the outside and the cooking time ideal for making the texture vary?
= >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
=
= Yes.
=
=
=     --bonniev

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 07:39:43 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030218073943.D10977@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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             Mon, Feb 17, 2003 at 06:47:12PM -0600
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-02-17 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
= > Rashmi Murthy wrote:
= > >
= > > How long is it since you lived in Chicago?
= >
= > 1968-69. No, there is no reason for me to keep up with Chicgao. I
= > thought Charlie Trotter was very old because it was so respected and
= > well known.
=
= I think you actually might lack access to a particular kind
= of "ethos" ... I can't put it in words very well, unfortunately,
= but I think you might simply be unable to understand that a
= monster raving star chef is able to launch a "pre-respected"
= restaurant overnight. It may be a 90s thing, I don't know.
= People bloody launch and publish major classics in all fields
= all the time, and self-promotion is the most important factor
= in it. And BOBO-aesthetic reviewers I guess ...

You need to shut up and take Karen out to dinner.

I went because I wanted a really fancy meal by someone who wasn't
going to insist that he couldn't do the food justice if it wasn't
in some dead animal reduction that took two weeks to make.

I went because I wanted someone to say, look, this is a really
good wine to eat with this stuff and have it be good.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 01:52:18 2003
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In a message dated 2/17/2003 11:05:09 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Yes. Although, my father, a midwesterner, sent his plate back to the
kitchen more than once when there was too much on it. Waiters were
reeling in shock. I inherited his horror at having too much food at
once.
 >>

I've never been a big eater, but I like meat. Sorry, you vegetarians,
although I love vegetables too. But I shudder at what Americans call *rare*
steak. It would not even be considered medium, where I came from. I like my
steak scorched on the outside, bloody on the inside. My daughter#3 took me
for Chinese yesterday. I had chicken, with noodles and celery. Took most of
it home, had some today, and have enough left for another day.
Only wish we had an Indonesian restaurant anywhere near here. Now, that's
food I could eat every day. Yum. I have mail ordered, some Indonesian spices
from a Dutch store in Canada, and there's a Dutch mail order place in New
York, but I can't
duplicate the Indonesian dishes myself, no matter how hard I try. Oh well,
perhaps they serve it in hell? That's where I'm bound to end up if I don't
start repenting soon!
Theo

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:54:43 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: today
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Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

Evelyn Duncan:
= In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:22:13 PM Central Standard Time,
= dumasb@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU writes:
=
= <<
= Remember - death precedes resurrection.
=
= >>
=
= Yes, but it is pretty scary going through the process.
= I just wish someone would take me out, go to a movie
= and dinner, and tell me that I've done the right thing.
=

I wish I was there to go with you.  I'm sure you've done the
right thing.

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In a message dated 2/17/2003 8:11:58 AM, rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<         Here's a real downside of a high pain tolerance -- I've been
>>pissing blood for two days, and I'm not in any pain at all.
>> >>

I'm like that too. I once walked on a broken leg for a week. When it wouldn't
get better I went to a doctor. I told him that it had been feeling like that
for a week, and he said: "No wonder, it's broken"!  It really surprised me,
because I had expected broken parts to hurt like hell. No real harm was done
that time, but in your case, it could very well be very serious, so you
better have it checked out soon.
Theo.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 03:15:25 EST
Subject: Re: v.t., "lazyweb"
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In a message dated 2/17/2003 6:15:04 PM, kaminski@ISTORI.COM writes:

<< "lazyweb," to make public a wish for something that ought to be done, but
which won't be done by the speaker because it is too low priority, but
expressed with the desire that it be done by someone else with different
priorities.
 >>

Hmmm, never heard that one yet. Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 02:27:44 2003
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From: "Espen S. Ore" <espen@espenore.tk>
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I just received this. I believe that the address mentioned, espen.ore@nb.no, has been set to nomail some time last year, after I joined with my other address, and the only messages I know I have handled in a way that could give the effects mentioned below are the ones treated by mailwasher. This also suits with the first error date being February 13, and it is change that this has been done automatically without any list-boss contacting me. Is this actually some kind of cheat from the spammers?

Espen

>Date:         Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:22:09 -0500
>From:         "L-Soft list server at UGA (1.8d)" <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Subject:      Your removal from the WORDS-L list
>To:           Espen.Ore@NB.NO
>Reply-To:     WORDS-L-request@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>X-LSV-ListID: WORDS-L
>
>Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:22:09
>
>You  have  been automatically  removed  from  the WORDS-L  list  (English
>Language Discussion Group) as a result of repeated delivery error reports
>from your  mail system. This  decision was  based on the  automatic error
>monitoring policy  in effect for the  list, and has not  been reviewed or
>otherwise confirmed  by a human  being. If  you receive this  message, it
>means that  something is wrong: while  you are obviously able  to receive
>mail, your mail system has been regularly reporting that your account did
>not exist, or that you were otherwise permanently unable to receive mail.
>Here is some information which may assist  you or your local help desk in
>determining the cause of the problem:
>
>- The failing address is Espen.Ore@NB.NO.
>
>- The first error was reported on 13 Feb 2003.
>
>- Since then, a total of 6 delivery errors have been received.
>
>- The last reported error was: Unavailable; DSN status was 5.1.1
>
>PLEASE DO NOT  IGNORE THIS MESSAGE. While you can  of course re-subscribe
>to the list, it is important for  you to report this problem to your mail
>administrator so that  it can be solved. This problem  is not specific to
>the WORDS-L list, and also affects your private mail. This means that YOU
>HAVE PROBABLY LOST  SOME PRIVATE MAIL AS WELL. Anyone  trying to write to
>you  during the  same time  frame will  probably have  received the  same
>errors for  the same  reason. The  WORDS-L list  is but  one of  the many
>people who  may have  tried to write  to you while  your mail  system was
>malfunctioning.
>
>DO NOT LET TECHNICAL PEOPLE CONVINCE YOU THAT THIS IS NORMAL. It is never
>normal for a mail system to claim  that a valid, working account does not
>exist, just as it would not be  normal for the post office to return some
>of  your mail  with  "addressee  unknown" when  the  address was  written
>correctly.  It is  true that  some mail  systems are  less reliable  than
>others, and your technical people may be doing the best they can with the
>tools  they have.  But, ultimately,  the level  of service  that you  are
>receiving is the result of a  business decision, and not something due to
>a universal technical limitation that  one can only accept. Reliable mail
>systems do exist, and  it is ultimately up to you  to decide whether this
>level of service is acceptable or not.

 --
Espen S. Ore
Oslo, Norway
www.espenore.tk

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Subject: Re: Janet
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11:58 17.02.2003 -0600 skrev Rita Chapman:
>bonniev wrote:
>
>>>Rita Chapman wrote:
>>>>         Here's a real downside of a high pain tolerance -- I've been
>>>> pissing blood for two days, and I'm not in any pain at all.
>>>
>>>Cranberry juice is good for that. I am alarmed. Why are you calm?
>>>alyce
>>
>>
>>I'm alarmed at Rita's high blood pressure.  I didn't even know you get
>>headaches from high blood pressure.  How high is it, Rita?   Please take
>>care of yourself.   Your students need you, not to mention your husband and
>>daughter.
>
>
>       About 150's/100.

After Beta-blockers, ACE-blockers, acupuncture and a slight change of lifestyle I am now at 105/85. But I was up at the 150/105 or more level.

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 03:10:56 2003
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15:20 17.02.2003 -0500 skrev Alec D. Plotkin:
>>
>>
>>         About 150's/100.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>> rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>> http://www.etext.org/~rita
>>
>
>Hopefully you are on beta-blockers,ACE inhibitors or a nice diuretic.
>Relaxation techniques are fun too. Headaches are common with hypertension.

Yes to the headaches. My old ones came back last autumn but then dissapeared as my mixed treatment started to work. Actually it worked so well that I am now down on half of normal dosis for the ACE inhibitor I am taking (normal is 25 mg, I am taking 12.5). I am also taking the lowest possible dose of the beta blocker I am taking - although I am using the old stash so I have to cut a tablet in half every other morning. And (hello Bonnie) I hav sterted with Tai Ji again - I hope this will keep me in balance.

Espen

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 04:17:01 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
Subject: Re: Watch out, Rush
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On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 12:12:50 -0600, Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> wrote:

>>
>> >John . . there's got to be a typo here.
>> >There are no rich democrats.
>>
>> One of the reasons it's bound to be a mega-flop.
>>
>> -rashmi
>
>Nah.  They've got the money.  They just
>don't have the charm.
>
>Wait.  Wait a minute.  Let's see.  Where
>could they find someone who is a compulsive
>and long-winded talker, (relatively) good-looking,
>loaded with theories, and out of a job?
>
>Hmm.  Wouldn't be surprised.
>
>             - D. M.


Aside from the other reasons forwarded to deflate this supposition, it must
also be pointed out that this effort is supposed to be featuring the
Democratic left, not the near-Republican "New Democrats" like BC.

neal, potential target audience

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 05:31:15 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > Get that scanner ready.  You need to post your kidney pictures.
>
> She doesn't have a scanner.

But she apparently has quick access to one.  I remember it as being a
very short time last time between when she said she didn't have a
scanner and when she posted the scanned picture.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 05:32:54 2003
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Adam Hartfield wrote:

> > Aren't most canned soups usually very salty and fat-filled?
>
> Salty, yes. Fatty, not that I've noticed.

It's probably just that the ones I'm most interested in are.  Iow, the
ones I've read the fat information on are the ones I find most
appealing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty wrote:
>
> BIG snout?

> >To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/137941

No, I don't consider that a snout.  People drive cars into snouts.
Perhaps that's a beak.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty wrote:
>
> This one for sure!  Do it.

> >To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/134017

This is the one that caught my eye ages ago.  I'm very curious to see it
and am convinced there must be something seriously problematic about
it.  It's been for sale for too long.  The location isn't as good as the
others I've been looking at.  I can tell that from the "find it on a
map" thing.  But there must be more than simply distance from the heart
of town.  Somebody told me yesterday that a railroad track runs through
the middle of BSL.  It may be that this house is right on it or
something like that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:

> Yes, Natalie.  I know all about your friends the Blaneys.  You have told me
> many times.  You forget I'm a recluse.   I probably only know about 30 of
> the 3000 people who live in Bar Harbor.

You claim to be a recluse, but the habits you mention here don't seem
reclusive.  You hang out at inns, you play scrabble in cafes, you meet
aged murderers with dogs, etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 05:41:45 2003
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bonniev wrote:

>   I don't like it when people walking past the house can see what  you
> are watching on TV.

Put the tv in the back of the house.  You would adore my yard, btw.  No
way could anybody see into my house from the street.  And across that
street is blank park-like space.  Looking out my front window is like
looking into green infinity.  But cutting the front yard is a bitch.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> I think it was by way of explaining why there are not sidewalks in a lot
> of eastern towns--the houses are very near the roads, so there isn't
> room for them.

Hmm.  I find this opposite from what I consider usual.  I think of
sidewalks as more likely being in neighborhoods with small yards than in
neighborhoods with large yards.  There are exceptions, of course, but
that's been the general norm in my experience.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:47:14 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>        It is.  I have another drug now.  And I'll have pretty
>>pictures of my kidneys next week.  I don't have a UTI.
>>
>
> Get that scanner ready.  You need to post your kidney pictures.
>

        I don't think they'll give me the pictures.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:50:54 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:
>
> = These are all considered pretty <mundane> around here.  Yet they strike
> = me as fitting to some extent with what you said.
> =
> =  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> No one said that the mundane was not sophisticated.

I (perhaps erroneously) inferred a contrast when Janet chose the word
"mundane":

|But to me, what distinguishes sophisticated food from mundane food
(BTW, I
|  love both) is that the flavor and texture you get when you first put
the

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:56:02 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Monday, February 17, 2003, 8:53:37 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
>
>>Rita Chapman wrote:
>>
>
>>>        It is.  I have another drug now.  And I'll have pretty
>>>pictures of my kidneys next week.  I don't have a UTI.
>>>
>
>>Get that scanner ready.  You need to post your kidney pictures.
>>
>
> She doesn't have a scanner.
>
> Which reminds me, Rita, are you interested in possessing a
> scanner?


Not particularly.  I've done ok without one so far.

I like the digital camera I'm still trying to buy my dad
(long story).  Maybe I'll get one for this summer.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:51:05 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: no CT scan
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>        Well, Dr. Bean looked at my pee results and said I don't have
>>a UTI, but that it is indeed highly bloody. Then he thumped
>>and squeezed me in assorted spots, which yielded no clues.
>>He then looked at my chart and saw my bp (190/100) and told
>>the nurse to bring in more drugs over his walkie talkie.  He
>>then wrote up the test order and said he didn't know what
>>what was going on, and thus needs a nice detailed picture of
>>my innards.  He mentioned that he once upon a time saw a
>>case of tuberculosis of the kidneys, but that was extremely
>>unlikely.  He also said something about high bp sometimes
>>causing blood, but he didn't that that was it. I have to go
>>see a urologist when my test results are back.  And the
>>nurse took a vial of blood.
>>
>
> So you are taking the walkie-talkie-brought drugs now to get that bp
> down, right?  I'm glad you went to see him.  And I am optimistic that
> answers are going to be figured out and that all will be well.
>

        Yep.  I'm sure he'll get it figured out.  I told him that
yesterday... that I was sure he would get it figured out
since that is his job.

        Today is Ana's birthday.  Born at 12:06am seven years ago.
*Sniff*.  What a cool kid she is.

        Did I mention my nephew was born over the weekend?  My sister
named him Bailey James.  I'm pretty sure Bailey's a girl's
name, but whatever.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:52:25 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:
> = there would have been no point in responding.  To them life is about the
> = killer instinct as in screwing whoever you can find to screw in order to
> = gain.
>
> This explains your mother's caretakers.

? I don't get the connection here.  How would their killer-instinct
attitudes and behavior relate to my mother's caretakers?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:54:46 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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Espen Ore wrote:

> 15:20 17.02.2003 -0500 skrev Alec D. Plotkin:
>
>>>
>>>        About 150's/100.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>--
>>>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>>>rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>>>http://www.etext.org/~rita
>>>
>>>
>>Hopefully you are on beta-blockers,ACE inhibitors or a nice diuretic.
>>Relaxation techniques are fun too. Headaches are common with hypertension.
>>
>
> Yes to the headaches. My old ones came back last autumn but then dissapeared as my mixed treatment started to work. Actually it worked so well that I am now down on half of normal dosis for the ACE inhibitor I am taking (normal is 25 mg, I am taking 12.5). I am also taking the lowest possible dose of the beta blocker I am taking - although I am using the old stash so I have to cut a tablet in half every other morning. And (hello Bonnie) I hav sterted with Tai Ji again - I hope this will keep me in balance.
>


        I'm now on both an ACE and a Beta, and it does seem to be
helping.  I don't feel headachey this morning (actually,
I've noticed that I tend to feel pressure behind my eyes).
I've started adding some running to my walk at night, too,
for stress relief.  Alas, I'm a lot younger than you, and
that makes me pissed off.  I should have another fifteen
years before worrying about this nonsense.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         I don't think they'll give me the pictures.

They should since you will be the owner of them.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 05:57:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         Today is Ana's birthday.  Born at 12:06am seven years ago.
> *Sniff*.  What a cool kid she is.

Yep.

>         Did I mention my nephew was born over the weekend?  My sister
> named him Bailey James.  I'm pretty sure Bailey's a girl's
> name, but whatever.

I don't think of Bailey as a girl's name.  The only people I can think
of named Bailey are male.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] today
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In a message dated 02/17/2003 10:22:02 PM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>  I just wonder what to do about Annegret. :)

Why do you have to anything about her other than forget her?


>>

She knows she's the major reason why I quit, she's spent the
last month making sure that I didn't get the larger sales when
we both worked together, she comes into my Reasor's to shop;
she may make trouble for me there.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 06:41:06 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:39:11 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: no CT scan
Message-ID: <20030218133911.A11540@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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=         Today is Ana's birthday.  Born at 12:06am seven years ago.
= *Sniff*.  What a cool kid she is.
=

You're doing good, mom.


=         Did I mention my nephew was born over the weekend?  My sister
= named him Bailey James.  I'm pretty sure Bailey's a girl's
= name, but whatever.
=

No, you didn't mention it.  The physics chair at Lake Forest
College when I was there was named Bailey Donnally.   So I guess
it can go either way.

Oh wow.  He has some very nice pictures of Namibia.  I hope when
we go I can do half as well.

http://www.lfc.edu/~donnally/namibia/index.htm
=
=
= --
= Rita Rouvalis Chapman
= rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
= http://www.etext.org/~rita
=

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 07:21:48 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:41:44 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Watch out, Rush
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Natalie Maynor:
= steph wrote:
= > = there would have been no point in responding.  To them life is about the
= > = killer instinct as in screwing whoever you can find to screw in order to
= > = gain.
= >
= > This explains your mother's caretakers.
=
= ? I don't get the connection here.  How would their killer-instinct
= attitudes and behavior relate to my mother's caretakers?
=

I meant that the caretakers had the killer instinct.  So what if
they were a gnat in your brother's face.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:17:04 -0500
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: not much of a storm for us
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Bar Harbor, Maine    410 am EST Tue Feb 18 2003   ...Winter Weather
Advisory for snow canceled for today and tonight... the significant
snowfall anticipated earlier across the region...is no longer expected. As
a result...the Winter Weather Advisory for snow has been canceled.
However...light snow is expected across the region and will accumulate 2 to
4 inches through tonight.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 07:21:54 2003
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From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
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Subject: Re: today
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21:33 17.02.2003 -0500 skrev Evelyn Duncan:
>In a message dated 02/17/2003 8:22:13 PM Central Standard Time,
>dumasb@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU writes:
>
><<
>Remember - death precedes resurrection.
>
>>>
>
>Yes, but it is pretty scary going through the process.
>I just wish someone would take me out, go to a movie
>and dinner, and tell me that I've done the right thing.

You have absolutely done the right thing - and not too early!

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 07:29:32 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:11:34 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Hypertensive headaches
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>After Beta-blockers, ACE-blockers, acupuncture and a slight change of
>lifestyle I am now at 105/85. But I was up at the 150/105 or more level.
>Espen

I'm glad you got it down.  I would think meditation would lower blood
pressure.  But I guess lots of that stuff is just genetic.   Did you have
headaches?  I'm still surprised that those are a symptom of hypertension
because I thought it was symptomless.


    --bonniev

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>Yes to the headaches. My old ones came back last autumn but then
>dissapeared as my mixed treatment started to work.

Can you describe what the headache feels like?  Dull or sharp.  All over or
in spots.  Etc.

>  And (hello Bonnie) I hav sterted with Tai Ji again - I hope this will
> keep me in balance.
>Espen

I hope so too.   I must say that I've never fallen down or tripped over
anything since Tai Chi.  Even yesterday on the skis, I managed to catch my
balance and not fall the couple of times that I was in trouble with crossed
skis or separating skis.


    --bonniev

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At 09:52 PM 2/17/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>>It is amazing. Our car is lost in the snow.
>
>Alec, is your car out?
>
>I'm finally done - got my car out of the garage. It was beautiful
>snow - powdery and clean. But still a bitch to shovel. The ridge
>at the bottom of the driveway was the worst. I'm not going to
>worry about the deck now. It can wait till next week...
>
>YaY for girlpower, I did it all on my own!
>
>-rashmi

Boston topped off at 27.5 inches. I have yet to go outside and dig my car
out. Luckily my landlord takes care of the driveway (which I don't use) and
the walkway. I don't mine shoveling but I also don't mind letting someone
else do it. Besides, the snow I do have to shove is what the plow left
along side my car, that's the heavy, crusty stuff.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 07:31:37 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: CT scans
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>>Get that scanner ready.  You need to post your kidney pictures.
>
>        I don't think they'll give me the pictures.
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman

They gave Clyde his.  But that was because he had to carry them to an ear
nose throat specialist in another town.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 08:39:43 2003
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From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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21:37 17.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:31:35 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>> PS Sorry Alyce I'll pass on coming up. Maybe when I get one
>> of 'em electric snowblowers ...
>
>Two words: Snow Scoop.
>
>You probably can't buy them there, but they are *wonderful*. Even
>*I* enjoy moving snow with them. It's good back and belly
>exercise.
>
>Aha!  http://www.snowscoop.com/

It is more joy if you have somewhere to put the snow than if you are trying to build your own snow hill in a flat area - like the twentieth time you have to move snow. That was one of the positive things with growing up on a hillside: there was always somewhere one could push the snow. Since this has been a snowy winter so far, and since my mother isn't as strong as she was, I have again discovered the joy of hillsides.

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 08:39:43 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:04:51 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> If I send you a picture of us skiing yesterday, Natalie, will you put it up
> on your page for everyone to see??

Of course.  But wouldn't it be better to send it to the list
gallery-keeper to go in the Words-L gallery?  Or you could send it to me
to put on my page and then the list gallery-keeper could grab it there.
(But it will probably be late afternoon before I'm back online.  I
usually don't read list mail in the office but am doing so right now to
avoid reading what I'm supposed to be reading.  I'm about to log off,
though, and make myself work.  Also a student is supposed to show up in
my office at any minute now to talk about OE adjective declensions.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 08:39:44 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:11:23 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Espen Ore wrote:
> After Beta-blockers, ACE-blockers, acupuncture and a slight change of lifestyle I am now at 105/85.

Good work!

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 08:39:45 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM>
>=         Did I mention my nephew was born over the weekend?  My sister
>= named him Bailey James.  I'm pretty sure Bailey's a girl's
>= name, but whatever.
>=
>
>No, you didn't mention it.  The physics chair at Lake Forest
>College when I was there was named Bailey Donnally.   So I guess
>it can go either way.

There was also Bailey from that show "Party of Five". And he got chix.

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 09:24:19 2003
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From: "Espen S. Ore" <espen@espenore.tk>
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22:37 17.02.2003 -0500 skrev Marie Ascher:
>>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
>>am. I wonder if there will be more than 24" then.
>
>It's stopping here now, I think, at least for the most part. I just went out
>to my table on the deck with a yard stick. 21". Which is nothing compared to
>down in Maryland -- where I heard a report of 49" ! What was your final,
>rashmeeber?

We have 120 cm around Oslo - I believe that is a little less than 49" but it still means snow. This is what it looked like at 13:33 CET at the end stop of one of the subway lines:

http://www.skiforeningen.no/imgshow.cgi?nr=566

Espen

 --
Espen S. Ore
Oslo, Norway
www.espenore.tk

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>You hang out at inns,

Which exposes me to one small, isolated, segment of Bar Harbor society.

>you play scrabble in cafes,

Which means I know four women and two bartenders.

>  you meet aged murderers with dogs, etc.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

He's already forgotten me.  I see him from time to time and there is no
look of recognition when I greet him and Jenny the retired show dog.

If I send you a picture of us skiing yesterday, Natalie, will you put it up
on your page for everyone to see??


    --bonniev

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Janet
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>I don't feel headachey this morning (actually,
>I've noticed that I tend to feel pressure behind my eyes).
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman

How do you distinguish that from a sinus headache?  Should you be running
with high blood pressure??


    --bonniev

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03:38 18.02.2003 +0000 skrev Rashmi Murthy:
>Pete:
>
>>he's working on, and my first answer was "etaoin shrdlu," which sometimes
>>get used also as nonsense words (even if they're not nonsense in the right
>
>1991 alert! I'd forgotten all about "etaoin shrdlu".
>
>There's your word, Karen.

Terry Winograd and his box-world! (Apart from the typesetter sequence)

Espen

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: I need...
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At 09:40 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:38:29 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> > Pete:
>
> >>he's working on, and my first answer was "etaoin shrdlu," which sometimes
> >>get used also as nonsense words (even if they're not nonsense in the right
>
> > 1991 alert! I'd forgotten all about "etaoin shrdlu".
>
> > There's your word, Karen.
>
>Too hard to pronounce.

qwerty

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At 10:44 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>  It's interesting
>to me that Bonnie's neighbors have one, because I haven't heard
>anyone else outside of Michigan know what I was talking about
>when I mentioned then.

They are widely marketed and used in Maine, as are the offset-handle snow
shovels.

cwv

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>Of course.  But wouldn't it be better to send it to the list
>gallery-keeper to go in the Words-L gallery?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Who is that person?


    --bonniev

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> >         I don't think they'll give me the pictures.
>
> They should since you will be the owner of them.

This is the truth. THey don't like to give out scans and x-rays, but
they must if you ask.

alyce

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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
 she comes into my Reasor's to shop;
> she may make trouble for me there.

Avoid contact if possible. Treat her courteously if you do have to deal
with her. The people at Reasor's will see that you are doing nothing
wrong.

alyce

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Evelyn Duncan <BrandyKitt@AOL.COM>
>She knows she's the major reason why I quit, she's spent the
>last month making sure that I didn't get the larger sales when
>we both worked together, she comes into my Reasor's to shop;
>she may make trouble for me there.

Evelyn, are you sure that some of this drama isn't in your head? Back in
Ohio, there was whatsername, now Annegret. I'm sure she's not out to get
you.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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At 08:28 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, bonnie wrote:
>>>Get that scanner ready.  You need to post your kidney pictures.
>>
>>        I don't think they'll give me the pictures.
>>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>
>They gave Clyde his.  But that was because he had to carry them to an ear
>nose throat specialist in another town.

I'm thinking of having them framed.

cwv

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 10:48 PM 2/17/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>Tushar Samant wrote:
> >
> > but I think you might simply be unable to understand that a monster
> raving star chef is able to launch a "pre-respected"
> > restaurant overnight.
>
>That is beyond my ken, unless the chef has very influential PR people.

Some do.  Also, a star chef moving to, say, an upscale hotel restaurant
will have the entire hotel PR effort working for him/her.  That aside, star
chefs and their restaurants are big news items in metropolitan
newspapers.  The Boston Globe, for example, has a large section in the
Wednesday edition devoted to food; one of the feature articles always is
about the highly-rated restaurants, their chefs, who is starting a new one,
etc.  Other days, the Globe reports the gossip of the chef/restaurant world.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:24:34 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> Bar Harbor, Maine    410 am EST Tue Feb 18 2003   ...Winter Weather
> Advisory for snow canceled for today and tonight... the significant
> snowfall anticipated earlier across the region...is no longer expected. As
> a result...the Winter Weather Advisory for snow has been canceled.
>
My sympathy. YOu would have loved it so.

alyce

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From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
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08:14 18.02.2003 -0500 skrev bonniev:
>>Yes to the headaches. My old ones came back last autumn but then
>>dissapeared as my mixed treatment started to work.
>
>Can you describe what the headache feels like?  Dull or sharp.  All over or
>in spots.  Etc.

Overpowering, almost - rather sharp and making me feel sick at times, and also they might be in the back of the head or at one side.


>> And (hello Bonnie) I hav sterted with Tai Ji again - I hope this will
>>keep me in balance.
>>Espen
>
>I hope so too.   I must say that I've never fallen down or tripped over
>anything since Tai Chi.  Even yesterday on the skis, I managed to catch my
>balance and not fall the couple of times that I was in trouble with crossed
>skis or separating skis.

I found that acupuncture also does something to the balance - the sidewalks and streets of Oslo have been icy for some time now and I have done some funny dance steps, but even if I have at times ended up standing on one leg with the other straight out in the air for counter balance, I have mainly stayed on my feet. And we hope the weather will hold for cross country skiing on Friday when we will take the day off.

Espen

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From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
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09:11 18.02.2003 -0500 skrev alyce cresap:
>Espen Ore wrote:
>> After Beta-blockers, ACE-blockers, acupuncture and a slight change of lifestyle I am now at 105/85.
>
>Good work!

Thank you - I have a possibly childish ambition of not needing any drug, but we will see. I will have a new business meeting with my doctor in April. (Business meeting since we also meet informally for a glass of wine about once a month, we went to the same class in high school for a year back in 1969/70). But since he already needs a higher doses of both beta blockers and ACE inhibitors he might be jealous. One funny thing is that he is open minded enough to say that the acupuncture might have been the single most effective part of all the things I have done to get the hypertension down, but he is not intyerested in trying it on himself.

Espen

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>Dunno. I grew up in Devon, PA, very near where Alec lives (the same area
>from which both Rashmi and Marie hail);

Suburbs of the same city, but Janet came from the affluent area -- the Main
Line. I come from the Greater Northeast. I don't know if rashmi would
consider herself hailing from Philly, although she spent a good number of
years there.

Marie
   on another snow day

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:35:28 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Espen Ore wrote:
>
> It is more joy if you have somewhere to put the snow

Yes indeed. Assessing the situation in the light of day, this appears to
be something of a problem. The boys are going to have to carry the snow
some distance, shovelful by shovelful. The man came who plows the
driveway proper, so now the walls of snow are thicker than before. There
will only be room for a narrow cleared walking space between my front
door and the Blazer.

There were mystery guests at the back door sometime between midnight and
6 am. The six steps were totally covered with virgin snow when I went to
bed, but this morning something had been up them right up onto the
porch. Something big, because the snow is either really packed down or
gone. It looks as if several people were up and down the steps, but that
cannot be so. Because of the snow cover all winter the deer are
desperate and have been coming at dusk to eat whatever birdseed is left
on the porch. But they never have come up onto the porch itself; they
have stood at the bottom of the steps and eaten whatever they could
reach by stretching their necks. I am sorry for the deer. I cannot
afford to feed them birdseed in any quantity. They have eaten all the
twigs and grasses that usually tide them over the winters. I have a
family of six who visit nightly. They are pretty tame. They see me
through the door and just look and go on searching for a sunflower seed
or two.

alyce

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>>They gave Clyde his.  But that was because he had to carry them to an ear
>>nose throat specialist in another town.
>
>I'm thinking of having them framed.
>cwv

That's because he's so proud of them.  The ENT guy explained them to him,
saying that all the black was air.  Seldom had he seen such clean
sinuses.   Also they are proof positive that there really is a brain in
that head!


    --bonniev

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: not much of a storm for us
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At 09:24 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>bonniev wrote:
> >
> > Bar Harbor, Maine    410 am EST Tue Feb 18 2003   ...Winter Weather
> > Advisory for snow canceled for today and tonight... the significant
> > snowfall anticipated earlier across the region...is no longer expected. As
> > a result...the Winter Weather Advisory for snow has been canceled.
> >
>My sympathy. YOu would have loved it so.

;-->

It may simply be late-winter paranoia, but it seems to me that whoever
writes the storm-watch cancellation notices would really like to begin
them:  "We reget to announce...."

cwv

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:16:50 -0500
From: Neal Traven <beisbol@ALUMNI.PITT.EDU>
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:37:14 -0500, bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> wrote:

>>>They gave Clyde his.  But that was because he had to carry them to an ear
>>>nose throat specialist in another town.
>>
>>I'm thinking of having them framed.
>>cwv
>
>That's because he's so proud of them.  The ENT guy explained them to him,
>saying that all the black was air.  Seldom had he seen such clean
>sinuses.   Also they are proof positive that there really is a brain in
>that head!
>
>
>    --bonniev

Pitcher Dizzy Dean (St. Louis Cardinals-Chicago Cubs-St. Louis Browns, 1930,
1932-41, 1947) had a reputation as a funny/silly hayseed.  Headline
(probably apocryphal) after Dean was carried off the field following a
beanball incident:

"X-rays of Dean's head reveal nothing"

neal

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:23:36 +0200
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> Yes, but it is pretty scary going through the process.
> I just wish someone would take me out, go to a movie
> and dinner, and tell me that I've done the right thing.

You have! Be sure. Go to a movie, or if you think you maybe cannot
afford it, visit galleries -- though I know you're more fond of movies
perhaps.

Kristin

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Natalie:
> the less-good satsumas today were because of the cold weather

Yeah, the whole citrus crop got whacked in a frost.

The sugar cane producers got wiped out by the two
hurricanes, and the shrimpers are all going broke
because the fish is so cheap.

--
Richard 11:14    7 pair clean, check.  1 pair unclean, check.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:56:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 8:22:35 AM, Espen Ore wrote:
> One funny thing is that he is open minded enough to say that
> the acupuncture might have been the single most effective part
> of all the things I have done to get the hypertension down, but
> he is not intyerested in trying it on himself.

Too bad for him!

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 5:29:02 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:

>> > Get that scanner ready.  You need to post your kidney pictures.
>>
>> She doesn't have a scanner.

> But she apparently has quick access to one.  I remember it as being a
> very short time last time between when she said she didn't have a
> scanner and when she posted the scanned picture.

I think she has a digital camera.

Let's talk about her like she doesn't read e-mail.:)

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:41:50 +0200
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Marie wrote:

> >From: Evelyn Duncan <BrandyKitt@AOL.COM>
> >She knows she's the major reason why I quit, she's spent the
> >last month making sure that I didn't get the larger sales when
> >we both worked together, she comes into my Reasor's to shop;
> >she may make trouble for me there.
>
> Evelyn, are you sure that some of this drama isn't in your head? Back
> in
> Ohio, there was whatsername, now Annegret. I'm sure she's not out to
> get
> you.

Forget her, Evelyn. The sooner, the better. You are better than her.

Though, I guess, I have been slightly paranoic sometimes in my life,
too, towards some people. All those thoughts either have turned to be
wrong, or I have found strength in myself to see new perspectives, to
live my own life, which helped me to forget about all that kind of
thoughts. Maybe it is not wrong for you to play with your paranoic,
so-to-say, thoughts for a while, but do not be too frightened and do not
let them paralyse you. You *are not* weaker than her. Forget her!

Kristin

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Natalie:
> Is there still a parking lot near the Jax Brewery

Yes.

> day I met JAG while leaning on a lightpost near the Cafe du Monde

mumblemumblemumblemumble cat mumblemumblemumble

--
Richard 11:14    7 pair clean, check.  1 pair unclean, check.

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Alyce to Evelyn:
>Treat her courteously if you do have to deal with her.

Romans 12:20

--
Hey, nice metaphor, Paul

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Feels like 1996...
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:10:01 -0500
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> >It is amazing. Our car is lost in the snow.
>
> Alec, is your car out?
>

Luckily our apartment building's staff made quick work of most of the snow.
Also, we have a car with all-wheel drive which drove like a dream through
the snow. Univ of Penn. closed for the second day, I tried to get in, but
the trains sucked.




alec

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At 09:37 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
>>>They gave Clyde his.  But that was because he had to carry them to an ear
>>>nose throat specialist in another town.
>>
>>I'm thinking of having them framed.
>>cwv
>
>That's because he's so proud of them.  The ENT guy explained them to him,
>saying that all the black was air.  Seldom had he seen such clean
>sinuses.   Also they are proof positive that there really is a brain in
>that head!

More than that, it's the first time since I took comparative vertebrate
embryology that I've seen (and been able to understand) serial
sections.  Too bad they aren't in color.

cwv

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The killer for me has been utility bills.  It's hard to prep for the combination of day
after day near zero and rising prices brought on by crises in South America, Africa
and the Persian Gulf.

BrP





> 'Gotta love a real Winter.  Last year's was a dud.  I know they're harsh on
> some folks, but a little prep goes a long way.
>
> 'Alan

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 10:52:50 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:50:50 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 10:47:23 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Riley has come and is beginning to clear a path so I can leave the
> house. He brought with him a huge piece of lasagna that looks mighty
> fine. I repeat, his mother is a great cook. The funny thing is, though,
> that Jeff made lasagna his last night here (Wednesday) and I froze six
> meals' worth and have had two more slices the last two nights. So it is
> lasagna city here.

It's good, filling food.

I am so glad that you have good neighbors.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Subject: Re:      Re: Janet
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:52:25 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Natalie Maynor" <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:55 AM
Subject: Re: Janet


> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> >         I don't think they'll give me the pictures.
>
> They should since you will be the owner of them.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>

Nope!  Hospitals do digital pictures. Few still print films. That costs
money. She could request a copy for some outrageus amount.

alec

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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Subject: Re:      Re: today
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>
> She knows she's the major reason why I quit, she's spent the
> last month making sure that I didn't get the larger sales when
> we both worked together, she comes into my Reasor's to shop;
> she may make trouble for me there.
>
> Evelyn Duncan
> brandykitt@aol.com
> This account protected by an attack sheep.
>

I am sure it is awful. I wonder is any of your problems, paranoia or some
other mental issue. You mentioned many years ago, you had some mental
issues.


alec

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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: By now...
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>The killer for me has been utility bills.  It's hard to prep for the
>combination of day
>after day near zero and rising prices brought on by crises in South
>America, Africa
>and the Persian Gulf.     --BrP

No kidding.  We just shelled out $348 for a tank of fuel oil.  That much
oil heated the house from December 26 until February 12th, seven weeks.   I
hate to think what Alyce's fuel bill must be in her huge, drafty house.


    --bonniev

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Subject: Re: By now...
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bonniev wrote:
>   I  hate to think what Alyce's fuel bill must be in her huge, drafty house.

$300-$500 a winter month (Nov-March), depending on the weather. Rarely
have the heat on in October, and starting in April the bills go down
quite a bit. I have negotiated a ceiling price of $1.09 a gallon, and it
is saving my life this winter. Hard on the oil company though, unless
they bought really a lot of cheap oil last summer. My last two bills
were $379 and $480. The latter included the ten days of zero temps in
January. The next one will be high, too, because of this last string of
zero and below zero days. I think that people without a ceiling price
are now paying about $1.59.

alyce
>

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=
= Nope!  Hospitals do digital pictures. Few still print films. That costs
= money. She could request a copy for some outrageus amount.
=
= alec

Are you sure?  Then either I've not listened again to what it is
that Rashmi does, or I expect she has a different view on this
subject.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:30:54 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>In a message dated 2/17/2003 11:05:09 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:
>
><< Yes. Although, my father, a midwesterner, sent his plate back to the
>kitchen more than once when there was too much on it. Waiters were
>reeling in shock. I inherited his horror at having too much food at
>once.
>  >>
>
>I've never been a big eater, but I like meat. Sorry, you vegetarians,
>although I love vegetables too. But I shudder at what Americans call *rare*
>steak. It would not even be considered medium, where I came from.

Depends on the restaurant. My rule of thumb is that the more
expensive the restaurant, the rarer a "rare" steak will be. I
generally order my steak "very rare" or "as rare as you can get the
chef to send it out" in anything but the best restaurants, but in the
really good ones I can order "rare" and get what I want.

Now, of course, some restaurants won't do "rare" for liability
reasons. They don't generally get my business twice.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 11:32:11 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 08:47:12 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Dossie's pie
In-Reply-To: <00bb01c2d715$01631170$647d7643@greenery1865jd>
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At 10:14 PM 2/17/2003 -0800, you wrote:
> > At 08:40 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> > >I have met Dossie, and I thought I would like to get to know her
> > >better, but the feeling wasn't mutual.
> >
> > Is this the co-author?
>
>Yes. We've been friends and sweeties for more than 10 years now, and have
>written four books together (six if you count the new editions of Topping
>Book & Bottoming Book), and we're in the early stages of our next one. She's
>a practicing therapist in SF.

Ah, yes, I remember the nice article in the newspaper. I couldn't remember
if she was the one I met at the Mexican restaurant in Albany before one of
your book signings.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 11:34:38 2003
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Message-ID: <3E52639B.596A958F@valstar.net>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:47:23 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Riley has come and is beginning to clear a path so I can leave the
house. He brought with him a huge piece of lasagna that looks mighty
fine. I repeat, his mother is a great cook. The funny thing is, though,
that Jeff made lasagna his last night here (Wednesday) and I froze six
meals' worth and have had two more slices the last two nights. So it is
lasagna city here.

Riley's brother Casey, and Kevin the father, too, are on the way, so
three of them should make the task do-able. I amm glad Kevin is coming
because he guides them to do a better job than they would of their own
volition. Maybe I said that earlier? Sorry, if so.

alyce
--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Message-ID: <02c801c2d76f$31244f00$08e4a5ac@aoldsl.net>
From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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Subject: Re:      Hypertensive headaches
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:00:06 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "bonniev" <bonniev@PANAX.COM>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 8:14 AM
Subject: Hypertensive headaches


> >Yes to the headaches. My old ones came back last autumn but then
> >dissapeared as my mixed treatment started to work.
>
> Can you describe what the headache feels like?  Dull or sharp.  All over
or
> in spots.  Etc.
>

I am not Espen, but this is Words-l. When I had headaches related to being
hypertensive, it was a tension headache. My head pounded and the front of
head hurt. Many never feel symptopms, lucky ones do.


alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 11:34:47 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:21:18 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Please review this property listing found onwww.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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At 05:34 AM 2/18/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Betty wrote:
> >
> > This one for sure!  Do it.
>
> > >To see this property, goto http://www.latter-blum.com/134017
>
>This is the one that caught my eye ages ago.  I'm very curious to see it
>and am convinced there must be something seriously problematic about
>it.  It's been for sale for too long.  The location isn't as good as the
>others I've been looking at.  I can tell that from the "find it on a
>map" thing.  But there must be more than simply distance from the heart
>of town.  Somebody told me yesterday that a railroad track runs through
>the middle of BSL.  It may be that this house is right on it or
>something like that.

I've always heard trains here  but not REAL close.

Betty

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:33:08 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>bonniev wrote:
>
>>    I don't like it when people walking past the house can see what  you
>>  are watching on TV.
>
>Put the tv in the back of the house.  You would adore my yard, btw.  No
>way could anybody see into my house from the street.  And across that
>street is blank park-like space.  Looking out my front window is like
>looking into green infinity.  But cutting the front yard is a bitch.

One of the things I like (and miss) about city life is being able to
look into folks' windows as I walk by -- not in a voyeuristic way; I
just like to look at their books, pictures and tchotchkes and try to
imagine what kind of people live there. It actually sort of spoils it
if I can see the actual people.

Janet

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:03:19 -0500
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Subject: Re: Socialtext
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On Friday, February 14, 2003 at 13:17, Peter Kaminski wrote:

> We're quietly announcing the existence of the company I've co-founded, and
> its website, to friends and blog-readers:
>
> <http://www.socialtext.com/>

No problems with the notoriously hoaxed magazine of almost the same
name?

Tony H.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:33:27 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030218173327.GA28717@pobox.com>
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            <3E511E7E.95C35F14@valstar.net> <20030218004712.GF23277@pobox.com>
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02003-02-18 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> Tushar Samant:
> = 02003-02-17 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> = > Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> = > >
> = > > How long is it since you lived in Chicago?
> = >
> = > 1968-69. No, there is no reason for me to keep up with Chicgao. I
> = > thought Charlie Trotter was very old because it was so respected and
> = > well known.
> =
> = I think you actually might lack access to a particular kind
> = of "ethos" ... I can't put it in words very well, unfortunately,
> = but I think you might simply be unable to understand that a
> = monster raving star chef is able to launch a "pre-respected"
> = restaurant overnight. It may be a 90s thing, I don't know.
> = People bloody launch and publish major classics in all fields
> = all the time, and self-promotion is the most important factor
> = in it. And BOBO-aesthetic reviewers I guess ...
>
> You need to shut up and take Karen out to dinner.
>
> I went because I wanted a really fancy meal by someone who wasn't
> going to insist that he couldn't do the food justice if it wasn't
> in some dead animal reduction that took two weeks to make.
>
> I went because I wanted someone to say, look, this is a really
> good wine to eat with this stuff and have it be good.

What's any of this got to do with the launch of a pre-respected
restaurant?

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:52:43 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hypertensive headaches
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>  >Yes to the headaches. My old ones came back last autumn but then
>>dissapeared as my mixed treatment started to work.
>
>Can you describe what the headache feels like?  Dull or sharp.  All over or
>in spots.  Etc.
>
>>   And (hello Bonnie) I hav sterted with Tai Ji again - I hope this will
>>  keep me in balance.
>>Espen
>
>I hope so too.   I must say that I've never fallen down or tripped over
>anything since Tai Chi.  Even yesterday on the skis, I managed to catch my
>balance and not fall the couple of times that I was in trouble with crossed
>skis or separating skis.

I've been thinking about taking some Tai Chi or Qi Gong -- partly
just for getting-off-my-butt reasons, partly as research for the new
book.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:58:53 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Janet "red of tooth and claw" Hardy:
>>I generally order my steak "very rare"
>
>"A competent veterinarian could still save this animal!"

Exactly. With strong horseradish on the side.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:06:53 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Please review this property listing found onwww.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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=
= I've always heard trains here  but not REAL close.
=
= Betty

My little house in Tehema was about 15 feet from the
tracks.  There is nothing like it.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:12:41 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 11:58:53 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> Exactly. With strong horseradish on the side.

Good horseradish is a wonderful thing.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:24:32 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-18 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> = What's any of this got to do with the launch of a pre-respected
> = restaurant?
>
> By the time I went, it was no longer pre-respected, but already
> just well respected.

Fine.

> It wouldn't even be there if it couldn't put out on a certain level.

"Put out" is an excellent way to express it ...

> Besides, how is this any different from drafting the Heisman
> trophy winner for your football team?

As long as we understand that this is how we live now. And that's
all I wanted to say. This is how we measure excellence.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:32:00 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: no CT scan
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>= >Oh wow.  He has some very nice pictures of Namibia.  I hope when
>= >we go I can do half as well.
>= >
>= >http://www.lfc.edu/~donnally/namibia/index.htm
>=
>= Those are gorgeous!  When are we going?
>=
>= Betty
>
>Next year.  Depends on who can go and when, I would suppose.
>
>That reminds me.  An ex-colleague of mine has a friend who runs
>tours there.  He's given me her url: http://www.oipuka.com, and I
>have other real contact details if we'd like her to arrange a
>tour for us.  He's even thinking of joining us.

Damn. After seeing these, I'll go if there's any way I can swing it.

Janet

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02003-02-18 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >= >Oh wow.  He has some very nice pictures of Namibia.  I hope when
> >= >we go I can do half as well.
> >= >
> >= >http://www.lfc.edu/~donnally/namibia/index.htm
> >=
> >= Those are gorgeous!  When are we going?
> >=
> >= Betty
> >
> >Next year.  Depends on who can go and when, I would suppose.
> >
> >That reminds me.  An ex-colleague of mine has a friend who runs
> >tours there.  He's given me her url: http://www.oipuka.com, and I
> >have other real contact details if we'd like her to arrange a
> >tour for us.  He's even thinking of joining us.
>
> Damn. After seeing these, I'll go if there's any way I can swing it.

BOBOS HAVE SPOKEN

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:38:41 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-02-18 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
= > = What's any of this got to do with the launch of a pre-respected
= > = restaurant?
= >
= > By the time I went, it was no longer pre-respected, but already
= > just well respected.
=
= Fine.
=
= > It wouldn't even be there if it couldn't put out on a certain level.
=
= "Put out" is an excellent way to express it ...
=
= > Besides, how is this any different from drafting the Heisman
= > trophy winner for your football team?
=
= As long as we understand that this is how we live now. And that's
= all I wanted to say. This is how we measure excellence.

How else would you?

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:33:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: report from NYC
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 11:33:08 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> One of the things I like (and miss) about city life is being able to
> look into folks' windows as I walk by -- not in a voyeuristic way; I
> just like to look at their books, pictures and tchotchkes and try to
> imagine what kind of people live there. It actually sort of spoils it
> if I can see the actual people.

Yes, me too.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: no CT scan
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At 01:39 PM 2/18/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>=         Today is Ana's birthday.  Born at 12:06am seven years ago.
>= *Sniff*.  What a cool kid she is.
>=
>
>You're doing good, mom.
>
>
>=         Did I mention my nephew was born over the weekend?  My sister
>= named him Bailey James.  I'm pretty sure Bailey's a girl's
>= name, but whatever.
>=
>
>No, you didn't mention it.  The physics chair at Lake Forest
>College when I was there was named Bailey Donnally.   So I guess
>it can go either way.
>
>Oh wow.  He has some very nice pictures of Namibia.  I hope when
>we go I can do half as well.
>
>http://www.lfc.edu/~donnally/namibia/index.htm

Those are gorgeous!  When are we going?

Betty

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From: "Alan Wild" <awild@uri.edu>
To: "Wordslurs" <words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: cioppino
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:36:39 -0500
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Does anyone have any favorite recipes for cioppino?

'Alan

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Subject: Re:      Re: Janet
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:36:52 -0500
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----- Original Message -----
From: "steph" <stevie@MULTINIX.COM>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 12:19 PM
Subject: Re: Janet


> =
> = Nope!  Hospitals do digital pictures. Few still print films. That costs
> = money. She could request a copy for some outrageus amount.
> =
> = alec
>
> Are you sure?  Then either I've not listened again to what it is
> that Rashmi does, or I expect she has a different view on this
> subject.
>

The three hospitals that I have had to deal, do all MRI's and CTs
electronically. I imagine working for a company which makes medical imaging,
Rashmi knows what is currently happening. I am talking from personal
experience.

alec

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At 08:27 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:

>If I send you a picture of us skiing yesterday, Natalie, will you put it up
>on your page for everyone to see??
>
>
>    --bonniev

Send it to Tushar so he can put it in the words-l photo gallery.

Betty

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Janet "red of tooth and claw" Hardy:
>I generally order my steak "very rare"

"A competent veterinarian could still save this animal!"

--
Dr. Mike

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 09:30 AM 2/18/2003 -0800, janet wrote:

>Depends on the restaurant. My rule of thumb is that the more
>expensive the restaurant, the rarer a "rare" steak will be.

One of the finer steaks I've had was in Toronto---don't remember the name
of the place, but it was formerly a club---lots of rooms, woodwork very
dark.  Anyhow, the people I was with told me about ordering a steak
"bleu."  The restaurant had a large, circular, free-standing charcoal
grill; one man did all of the grilling.  The steak came charred on the very
outside and "bleu" throughout the rest.

cwv

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At 09:20 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Natalie Maynor wrote:
> >
> > Rita Chapman wrote:
> >
> > >         I don't think they'll give me the pictures.
> >
> > They should since you will be the owner of them.
>
>This is the truth. THey don't like to give out scans and x-rays, but
>they must if you ask.

Many places here release copies only.  We're legally responsible for them,
just like medical records, for a number of years.  It was always the ones
"lost" that got subpoenaed. Orthopedic surgeons always want to see MRI's so
copies are automatically made to give to the patient now and an increased
fee to cover the cost of copies.

Betty

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:52:41 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 11:52:43 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> I've been thinking about taking some Tai Chi or Qi Gong -- partly
> just for getting-off-my-butt reasons, partly as research for the new
> book.

What's the new book?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:52:28 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-18 | "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM> writes:
> At 10:48 PM 2/17/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
> >Tushar Samant wrote:
> >>
> >> but I think you might simply be unable to understand that a monster
> >raving star chef is able to launch a "pre-respected"
> >> restaurant overnight.
> >
> >That is beyond my ken, unless the chef has very influential PR people.
>
> Some do.  Also, a star chef moving to, say, an upscale hotel restaurant
> will have the entire hotel PR effort working for him/her.  That aside,
> star chefs and their restaurants are big news items in metropolitan
> newspapers.  The Boston Globe, for example, has a large section in the
> Wednesday edition devoted to food; one of the feature articles always
> is about the highly-rated restaurants, their chefs, who is starting a
> new one, etc.  Other days, the Globe reports the gossip of the chef/
> restaurant world.A

It's in the papers, it's on TV, it's on newsgroups and "web boards",
it's even on freaking channel 11, it's all-pervading. Let me put
it this way: if you went to the "Kwak" place that K-R-N went to,
to have a beer, you'll probably hear some random guy talking
about ... the new equipment Everest installed in their kitchen,
or something. It's like huge swathes of people are living inside
of "Frasier", and it's overwhelmingly disgusting.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:54:14 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hypertensive headaches
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>08:14 18.02.2003 -0500 skrev bonniev:
>>>Yes to the headaches. My old ones came back last autumn but then
>>>dissapeared as my mixed treatment started to work.
>>
>>Can you describe what the headache feels like?  Dull or sharp.  All over or
>>in spots.  Etc.
>
>Overpowering, almost - rather sharp and making me feel sick at
>times, and also they might be in the back of the head or at one side.

Isn't that a fairly accurate description of most folks' experience of migraine?

Janet

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At 11:52 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Natalie Maynor" <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:55 AM
>Subject: Re: Janet
>
>
> > Rita Chapman wrote:
> >
> > >         I don't think they'll give me the pictures.
> >
> > They should since you will be the owner of them.
> >
> > --
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
> >
>
>Nope!  Hospitals do digital pictures. Few still print films. That costs
>money. She could request a copy for some outrageus amount.

Not every place if filmless yet.  Soon that will be the standard. Storage
is really getting to be a pain.

Betty

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:56:08 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Dossie's pie
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>At 10:14 PM 2/17/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>  > At 08:40 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>  > >I have met Dossie, and I thought I would like to get to know her
>>  > >better, but the feeling wasn't mutual.
>>  >
>>  > Is this the co-author?
>>
>>Yes. We've been friends and sweeties for more than 10 years now, and have
>>written four books together (six if you count the new editions of Topping
>>Book & Bottoming Book), and we're in the early stages of our next one. She's
>>a practicing therapist in SF.
>
>Ah, yes, I remember the nice article in the newspaper. I couldn't remember
>if she was the one I met at the Mexican restaurant in Albany before one of
>your book signings.

No, that was Barbara. I haven't seen her in a long time, although I
still miss her. One of my few relationships that actually went away
rather than just morphing into a different form.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:51:06 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 11:33:08 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> > One of the things I like (and miss) about city life is being able to
> > look into folks' windows as I walk by -- not in a voyeuristic way; I
> > just like to look at their books, pictures and tchotchkes and try to
> > imagine what kind of people live there. It actually sort of spoils it
> > if I can see the actual people.
>
> Yes, me too.

You would have loved my NYC apartment. The living room was at ground
level with a sliding glass door and a wide windowsill. We made displays
for people to look at, and they did stop and stare. We did teddy bears,
seasons, holidays, anything that we felt like. It was really fun.
We sat mostly up on the next level at the dining table, and we could
look down and see the people, but mostly they couldn't see us unless we
turned certain lights on or off. SOmetimes then we waved and they'd wave
back. I luv NY.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 09:57:24 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: riley is here
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>Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 10:47:23 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
>>  Riley has come and is beginning to clear a path so I can leave the
>>  house. He brought with him a huge piece of lasagna that looks mighty
>>  fine. I repeat, his mother is a great cook. The funny thing is, though,
>>  that Jeff made lasagna his last night here (Wednesday) and I froze six
>>  meals' worth and have had two more slices the last two nights. So it is
>>  lasagna city here.
>
>It's good, filling food.

It was really nice having Miles back for a few days. But: last night
Kristine had already left so I didn't have to worry about preparing
vegetarian food. A 4-lb. corned beef, a whole head of cabbage, six
new potatoes and a batch of molasses cookies -- all not quite gone,
but down to where the remainder would make one nice lunch for someone.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:13:34 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030218191334.B12294@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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            <a05200f09ba781e95418f@[67.118.125.98]>
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=
= One of the things I like (and miss) about city life is being able to
= look into folks' windows as I walk by -- not in a voyeuristic way; I
= just like to look at their books, pictures and tchotchkes and try to
= imagine what kind of people live there. It actually sort of spoils it
= if I can see the actual people.
=
= Janet

It's not so bad.  You figure out an acceptable level of eye
contact and waving hello (mostly not, in our case, though we have
one set of very sociable neighbors) and get on with it.  The
girl across the way doesn't even have curtains.

We do a fair bit of walking around the neighborhood looking at
people's stuff, and since we're in the market for it, we've been
looking at wrought iron balcony railings.  The thing is we're
looking for our back patio, which is substantially bigger than
the door size windows typical on the fronts of buildings.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 12:58:36 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:16:24 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Good horseradish is a wonderful thing.

It is easy to grow horseradish and you could make your own. Everyone
around here does.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:18:40 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030218191840.C12294@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-02-18 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
= > Tushar Samant:
= > = 02003-02-17 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
= > = > Rashmi Murthy wrote:
= > = > >
= > = > > How long is it since you lived in Chicago?
= > = >
= > = > 1968-69. No, there is no reason for me to keep up with Chicgao. I
= > = > thought Charlie Trotter was very old because it was so respected and
= > = > well known.
= > =
= > = I think you actually might lack access to a particular kind
= > = of "ethos" ... I can't put it in words very well, unfortunately,
= > = but I think you might simply be unable to understand that a
= > = monster raving star chef is able to launch a "pre-respected"
= > = restaurant overnight. It may be a 90s thing, I don't know.
= > = People bloody launch and publish major classics in all fields
= > = all the time, and self-promotion is the most important factor
= > = in it. And BOBO-aesthetic reviewers I guess ...
= >
= > You need to shut up and take Karen out to dinner.
= >
= > I went because I wanted a really fancy meal by someone who wasn't
= > going to insist that he couldn't do the food justice if it wasn't
= > in some dead animal reduction that took two weeks to make.
= >
= > I went because I wanted someone to say, look, this is a really
= > good wine to eat with this stuff and have it be good.
=
= What's any of this got to do with the launch of a pre-respected
= restaurant?

By the time I went, it was no longer pre-respected, but already
just well respected.  It wouldn't even be there if it couldn't
put out on a certain level.

Besides, how is this any different from drafting the Heisman
trophy winner for your football team?

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 12:20:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 12:16:24 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Good horseradish is a wonderful thing.

> It is easy to grow horseradish and you could make your own. Everyone
> around here does.

I know; I've seen the plants for sale. I never considered this,
though, until the other night, when Nameless took me out to
dinner. We had oysters with really wonderful horseradish.

I've heard that processing the horseradish is easy to get wrong,
though.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:21:14 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hypertensive headaches
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>Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 11:52:43 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>  I've been thinking about taking some Tai Chi or Qi Gong -- partly
>>  just for getting-off-my-butt reasons, partly as research for the new
>  > book.
>
>What's the new book?

Jeeze, I've been talking about it for months (doing a lot more
talking than writing, unfortunately). Tentatively called "Ecstatic
Perversion," or maybe "Perverts In Ecstasy" (Dossie likes the first
one, I like the second). An exploration of the role of
transcendence/energy/kundalini/tao/you-choose-your-favorite-term in
BDSM. Obviously, part of the problem of writing it is the absence of
universally understood language for the phenomenon we're trying to
describe. We've pretty much decided that, rather than making it our
typical how-to (since we don't consider ourselves qualified to teach
in this area), it will be more a description of our own journeys,
explorations and experiences in this area. We've been doing some
tantra classes, some psychic workshops, some body rituals, etc., and
I think that some sort of yoga or martial arts practice is the next
step.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 12:58:37 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:23:34 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>>  Good horseradish is a wonderful thing.
>
>It is easy to grow horseradish and you could make your own. Everyone
>around here does.

I had planted horseradish in my back yard the spring before Frank & I
broke up -- I never got to harvest any. I gather it's a very invasive
plant, so the current owners are probably cursing my name.

Janet

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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= >Oh wow.  He has some very nice pictures of Namibia.  I hope when
= >we go I can do half as well.
= >
= >http://www.lfc.edu/~donnally/namibia/index.htm
=
= Those are gorgeous!  When are we going?
=
= Betty

Next year.  Depends on who can go and when, I would suppose.

That reminds me.  An ex-colleague of mine has a friend who runs
tours there.  He's given me her url: http://www.oipuka.com, and I
have other real contact details if we'd like her to arrange a
tour for us.  He's even thinking of joining us.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 12:58:38 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:27:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I've heard that processing the horseradish is easy to get wrong,
> though.

I have not done it myself, but I feel sure you could do it if you have
good instructions.

Horseradish recipe given by Chef Brad to clean the sinuses.
Horseradish. A favorite for clearing the sinuses, here is the simple
recipe for plain ol' Horseradish. Enjoy! Chef Brad. Horseradish roots
White vinegar Salt. ...
www.oldetimecooking.com/Recipes/Horseradish.htm -

etc.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 10:29:41 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 12:16:24 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
>>  Karen Kay wrote:
>>>  Good horseradish is a wonderful thing.
>
>>  It is easy to grow horseradish and you could make your own. Everyone
>>  around here does.
>
>I know; I've seen the plants for sale. I never considered this,
>though, until the other night, when Nameless took me out to
>dinner. We had oysters with really wonderful horseradish.
>
>I've heard that processing the horseradish is easy to get wrong,
>though.

My mother recalls being required to grate the horseradish as a
punishment when she was a child. I suspect that food processors have
made it a far less obnoxious task.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:28:43 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

 I gather it's a very invasive
> plant, so the current owners are probably cursing my name.

Yes it takes over and must be pulled out ruthlessly except for one or
two plants that you want.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 12:58:39 2003
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Tushar Samant wrote:>
> As long as we understand that this is how we live now.

"How We Live Now" is a book by Anthony Trollope. BBC made a four-part
thing for TV and Jeff and I watched it last week on DVD--five hours. A
good period piece (1880s) about a robber baron who sold railroad stock
but never built the railroad.

alyce

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Karen Kay:
= Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 11:58:53 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
= > Exactly. With strong horseradish on the side.
=
= Good horseradish is a wonderful thing.
=

This is easy easy easy to make.  Grate the root.  Add vinegar.
Add beet juice if you like it pink.

The longer the grated horseradish is in the air before you add the
vinegar, the stronger it gets.  I was a little worried about how
strong it would be, so I worked really fast.  Too fast.  It was
good, but it was wimpy.

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From: Diegetic Mutant Hog <whore@words-l.org>
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Betty Clark wrote:
> At 08:27 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
>
> >If I send you a picture of us skiing yesterday, Natalie, will you put it up
> >on your page for everyone to see??
>
> Send it to Tushar so he can put it in the words-l photo gallery.

Yeah, mail it to this address, Dr Maynor. We will open up
an FTPish area "real soon now".

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 12:58:39 2003
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>The next one will be high, too, because of this last string of
>zero and below zero days. I think that people without a ceiling price
>are now paying about $1.59.
>alyce

We just paid $1.729 for our 207 gallons.


    --bonniev

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>Send it to Tushar so he can put it in the words-l photo gallery.
>Betty

But Tushar doesn't like me.   The last time I sent him a photo, he tore it
up before he posted it.


    --bonniev

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 11:33:08 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> > One of the things I like (and miss) about city life is being able to
> > look into folks' windows as I walk by -- not in a voyeuristic way;
>
>Yes, me too.
>Karen,

Does that also mean that the two of you don't mind when people look in on you?


    --bonniev

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...just jumps out at you.


>From Memoirs of Napoleon Bonaparte:

The airs and the words that had made Paris tremble to her very centre during the
Reign of Terror--the "Marseillaise," the "Carmagnole," the "Jour du depart," the
execrable ditty, the burden of which is, "And with the entrails of the last of the
priests let us strangle the last of the kings," were all roared out in fearful chorus
by a drunken, filthy, and furious mob.



BrP

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>Orthopedic surgeons always want to see MRI's so
>copies are automatically made to give to the patient now and an increased
>fee to cover the cost of copies.
>Betty

That must have the case with Clyde.  There was no further charge for the
copies.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 12:58:41 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:45:44 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
> We just paid $1.729 for our 207 gallons.

Yikes! I suggest a contract next year. Don't they do contracts there? It
is a very competitive thing here amongst all the oil companies. They all
send out offers and then you haggle.

alyce

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At 09:38 AM 2/18/2003 -0800, betty wrote:
 >Many places here release copies only.  We're legally responsible for them,
>just like medical records, for a number of years.  It was always the ones
>"lost" that got subpoenaed. Orthopedic surgeons always want to see MRI's so
>copies are automatically made to give to the patient now and an increased
>fee to cover the cost of copies.

I think that's the way it worked with my CT, i.e., they were very happy to
make a copy (and it says on the envelope, Do Not Return).

cwv

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:03:24 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>  >Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 11:33:08 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>  > One of the things I like (and miss) about city life is being able to
>  > > look into folks' windows as I walk by -- not in a voyeuristic way;
>
>Does that also mean that the two of you don't mind when people look in on you?

I certainly don't mind if they want to look in and see my stuff.
Given that I'm a bit careless in matters of dress when alone in my
own space, they may see more than they really want to if they catch
me at home. Not really an issue right now, as I'm on the fourth floor
of one of the taller buildings for several blocks.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 13:07:14 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:04:53 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Socialtext
Message-ID: <20030218190453.GE28717@pobox.com>
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02003-02-18 | Tony Harminc <tony@HARMINC.COM> writes:
> On Friday, February 14, 2003 at 13:17, Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> > We're quietly announcing the existence of the company I've co-founded, and
> > its website, to friends and blog-readers:
> >
> > <http://www.socialtext.com/>
>
> No problems with the notoriously hoaxed magazine of almost the same
> name?

I was wondering, actually, and may I say that adds to the
cultish, private-amusement, boat-in-basement sound of the
thing ...

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:06:27 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-18 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
> >Send it to Tushar so he can put it in the words-l photo gallery.
> >Betty
>
> But Tushar doesn't like me.   The last time I sent him a photo,
> he tore it up before he posted it.

Why is the society still paperful? I spit on this society

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 11:08:07 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Dossie's pie
In-Reply-To: <a05200f0cba7824148c3b@[67.118.125.98]>
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At 09:56 AM 2/18/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>At 10:14 PM 2/17/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>>  > At 08:40 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>>  > >I have met Dossie, and I thought I would like to get to know her
>>>  > >better, but the feeling wasn't mutual.
>>>  >
>>>  > Is this the co-author?
>>>
>>>Yes. We've been friends and sweeties for more than 10 years now, and have
>>>written four books together (six if you count the new editions of Topping
>>>Book & Bottoming Book), and we're in the early stages of our next one. She's
>>>a practicing therapist in SF.
>>
>>Ah, yes, I remember the nice article in the newspaper. I couldn't remember
>>if she was the one I met at the Mexican restaurant in Albany before one of
>>your book signings.
>
>No, that was Barbara. I haven't seen her in a long time, although I
>still miss her. One of my few relationships that actually went away
>rather than just morphing into a different form.

A third woman joined us and then we met up with Jay.  One younger woman had
a neat whipping stick in her trunk she was showing us.

Betty

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: CT-MRI-Radiographs
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At 12:58 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>At 09:38 AM 2/18/2003 -0800, betty wrote:
> >Many places here release copies only.  We're legally responsible for them,
>>just like medical records, for a number of years.  It was always the ones
>>"lost" that got subpoenaed. Orthopedic surgeons always want to see MRI's so
>>copies are automatically made to give to the patient now and an increased
>>fee to cover the cost of copies.
>
>I think that's the way it worked with my CT, i.e., they were very happy to
>make a copy (and it says on the envelope, Do Not Return).

Bad enough to store the originals. All those many copies are cutting into
filing space here.

Betty

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 14:22:10 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Jim Bradley <fna104@uriacc.uri.edu>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>
>This is easy easy easy to make.  Grate the root.  Add vinegar.
>Add beet juice if you like it pink.

How do you de-bark the root?

/Jim

>
>The longer the grated horseradish is in the air before you add the
>vinegar, the stronger it gets.  I was a little worried about how
>strong it would be, so I worked really fast.  Too fast.  It was
>good, but it was wimpy.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 13:41:06 2003
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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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On Tuesday, February 18, 2003 at 3:38, Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> >he's working on, and my first answer was "etaoin shrdlu," which sometimes
> >get used also as nonsense words (even if they're not nonsense in the right
>
> 1991 alert! I'd forgotten all about "etaoin shrdlu".

"shrdlu toy of man's designing..."

Tony H.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:09:26 -0600
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They're moving the pole to a less-ugly place!  I'm about to go watch
(and subdue Spencer, who is trying to protect us from the evil electric
company men).
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 15:12:34 2003
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Tushar writes,

> > No problems with the notoriously hoaxed magazine of almost the same
> > name?

Sorry, Tony, missed your original post.

We decided the folks likely to know about Social Text and the hoax were
erudite and would be able to distinguish between the journal and us.

>I was wondering, actually, and may I say that adds to the
>cultish, private-amusement, boat-in-basement sound of the
>thing ...

Erudite case in point. :)

Pete

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Subject: Re: no CT scan
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At 07:28 PM 2/18/2003 +0100, you wrote:
>= >Oh wow.  He has some very nice pictures of Namibia.  I hope when
>= >we go I can do half as well.
>= >
>= >http://www.lfc.edu/~donnally/namibia/index.htm
>=
>= Those are gorgeous!  When are we going?
>=
>= Betty
>
>Next year.  Depends on who can go and when, I would suppose.
>
>That reminds me.  An ex-colleague of mine has a friend who runs
>tours there.  He's given me her url: http://www.oipuka.com, and I
>have other real contact details if we'd like her to arrange a
>tour for us.  He's even thinking of joining us.

Cool.  The more real contacts the better.  I know zilch.

Betty

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At 01:38 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>Send it to Tushar so he can put it in the words-l photo gallery.
>>Betty
>
>But Tushar doesn't like me.   The last time I sent him a photo, he tore it
>up before he posted it.

You better start doing some major kissing up.

Betty

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: CT-MRI-Radiographs
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At 01:41 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>Orthopedic surgeons always want to see MRI's so
>>copies are automatically made to give to the patient now and an increased
>>fee to cover the cost of copies.
>>Betty
>
>That must have the case with Clyde.  There was no further charge for the
>copies.

Oh, I'm sure it's included in the base price which you paid mightily
for.  We just don't give these things away any longer.

Betty

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Jim Bradley:
= >
= >This is easy easy easy to make.  Grate the root.  Add vinegar.
= >Add beet juice if you like it pink.
=
= How do you de-bark the root?
=
= /Jim
=

Don't remember what I did, which means I probably just used a
knife.  Maybe a vegetable peeler?  The root I had was a good ten
inches, with maybe a diameter of almost an inch at the top.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 15:12:37 2003
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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:28:54 -0500
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On Tuesday, February 18, 2003 at 11:19, Peter Kaminski wrote:

> We decided the folks likely to know about Social Text and the hoax were
> erudite and would be able to distinguish between the journal and us.

I was thinking more about the folks at the journal not liking your
use of the domain name. It's surprising that they don't have the .org
version.

Tony H.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:50:02 +0200
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:

> >
> > She knows she's the major reason why I quit, she's spent the
> > last month making sure that I didn't get the larger sales when
> > we both worked together, she comes into my Reasor's to shop;
> > she may make trouble for me there.
> >
> > Evelyn Duncan

> I am sure it is awful. I wonder is any of your problems, paranoia or some
> other mental issue. You mentioned many years ago, you had some mental
> issues.

Before going home I'd quickly like to add that although it goes without
saying that if one does have mental problems help is to be sought, but,
considering myself a relatively normal person, though having had similar
thoughts as Evelyn has about her ex-coworker, that kind of thoughts are not
abnormal if there's been much tension for a long time. Which does not mean
that one may not seek help against normal, but bad, annoying thoughts -- why
not.

Krisitn

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 15:12:38 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:07:50 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ski/

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 15:25:00 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 13:22:21 -0800
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Tony writes,

>I was thinking more about the folks at the journal not liking your
>use of the domain name.

Good point -- hadn't thought about it.

Although their website appears to be un-updated for a couple years:
<http://www.nyu.edu/pubs/socialtext/>.

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 15:41:55 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:39:39 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> reach by stretching their necks. I am sorry for the deer. I cannot
> afford to feed them birdseed in any quantity. They have eaten all the
> twigs and grasses that usually tide them over the winters. I have a

If I were a deer, I'd consider packing my duffle bag and moving to a
warmer climate.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:43:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 3:39:39 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> If I were a deer, I'd consider packing my duffle bag and moving to a
> warmer climate.

Where is deer overpopulation not a problem?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >Of course.  But wouldn't it be better to send it to the list
> >gallery-keeper to go in the Words-L gallery?
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> Who is that person?

I keep getting confused about it.  Either mem or Tushar, I think.

Meanwhile, what a shovel!  I'm fascinated watching these electricmen at
work.  I just took a couple of pictures I'll post later.  Wish I had
such a hole-digger.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty Clark wrote:

> I've always heard trains here  but not REAL close.

I don't mind hearing trains.  I loved waking up in Japan to the sound of
a train since that made me know it was morning.  But I wouldn't want to
have to look at a train track beside my backyard.  Also, I prefer
passenger trains, which I'm sure the ones in BSL aren't.  Freight trains
are less <pleasant> to observe.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:

> No kidding.  We just shelled out $348 for a tank of fuel oil.  That much
> oil heated the house from December 26 until February 12th, seven weeks.   I

That's cheaper than my last heating bill (in relation to the time
covered).  Mine was $250 for 30 days of heat.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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02003-02-18 | Tony Harminc <tony@HARMINC.COM> writes:
> I was thinking more about the folks at the journal not liking your
> use of the domain name. It's surprising that they don't have the .org
> version.

It's not surprising, really ...

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Janet Hardy wrote:

> look into folks' windows as I walk by -- not in a voyeuristic way; I
> just like to look at their books, pictures and tchotchkes and try to
> imagine what kind of people live there. It actually sort of spoils it
> if I can see the actual people.

Yes!  I've always loved doing that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 03:43 PM 2/18/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>Where is deer overpopulation not a problem?

Antarctica.  Gobi Desert.  My back yard.  Anywhere else that does not
suffer from The Bambi Syndrome.

cwv

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:06:39 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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The post people are gone now, and I'm happy with the result.  Spencer
also decided after a while that they were ok.  He quit trying to protect
us from them.  I'm going to go outside and do a closer inspection.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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The postpeople and their big white truck are back.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>That's cheaper than my last heating bill (in relation to the time
>covered).  Mine was $250 for 30 days of heat.

Good Lord! Mine went from about $70 to about $118, and I didn't like it.

Bethany

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:01:20 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty Clark wrote:

> Send it to Tushar so he can put it in the words-l photo gallery.

I trust that he will grab them from the url I posted and put them in the
gallery.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:00:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:

>Good Lord! Mine went from about $70 to about $118, and I didn't like it.

That is all utilities - not just heat.

Bethany

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:20:39 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Diegetic Mutant Hog wrote:

> Yeah, mail it to this address, Dr Maynor. We will open up
> an FTPish area "real soon now".

Do I need to mail it to you?  Can't you just get it from the web?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:33:58 -0700
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Where is deer overpopulation not a problem?

    Units 22, 24A, and 24B.  8-(

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 16:41:24 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:38:17 -0500
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: By now...
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>bonniev wrote:
>
> > No kidding.  We just shelled out $348 for a tank of fuel oil.  That much
> > oil heated the house from December 26 until February 12th, seven weeks.   I
>
>That's cheaper than my last heating bill (in relation to the time
>covered).  Mine was $250 for 30 days of heat.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Our electric bill is another $80 or $90 on top of the fuel oil.  The
furnace needs electricity to run the blower fan.    Clyde turned on the
Christmas lights tonight for our entertainment and that of our dinner
guests.  They still work and still look really pretty on the snowy trees
outside.  Maybe we will leave them up for Acadiafest.

Thanks for putting up the pictures, Natalie.


    --bonniev

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:43:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 4:33:58 PM, John Williams wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:

>> Where is deer overpopulation not a problem?

>     Units 22, 24A, and 24B.  8-(

What does this mean, exactly?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 17:13:56 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:55:17 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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It's now up to 2000+ signatures:

http://www.ieer.org/openletter/index.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:11:33 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 4:00:32 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> At 03:43 PM 2/18/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>Where is deer overpopulation not a problem?

> Antarctica.  Gobi Desert.  My back yard.  Anywhere else that does not
> suffer from The Bambi Syndrome.

They do a certain amount of kitchen-window hunting in Texas, but
the deer are still everywhere.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Subject: Canadian health care
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Apropos of the discussion a week or two ago, here's a short article
from today's Globe:
==================================================================
Rich, poor wait equal time for surgery, study shows
Tuesday, February 18, 2003 - Page A5

Feeling disgruntled about surgical waiting times?

Perhaps you can take some consolation from the fact that if the
system isn't fast, it's at least fair.

Rich and poor Canadians wait equally to go under the knife, a study
published today in the Canadian Medical Association Journal says.

The seven-year study, conducted at Queen's University in Kingston,
Ont., found similar waits for operations including arthroscopic
surgery, hysterectomies, tubal ligations or even procedures such as
radical mastectomies.

"Here's the bottom line," said lead author Dr. Samuel Shortt,
director of the Centre for Health Services and Policy Research at
Queen's.

"If the state declares that it has a monopoly -- as in many ways our
medicare system does -- then it's an absolute prerequisite to show
that this is an equitable system. . . . And we're happy in this
instance we've shown that."

Shortt and his co-author Ralph Shaw, a research associate at the
centre, analyzed the files of more than 39,000 people who underwent
one of 22 common elective (as opposed to emergency) procedures at
Kingston's two teaching hospitals from 1992 to 1999.

They used postal codes, generally considered a reasonable way of
assessing socioeconomic status, to isolate three income tiers.

On average, the patients in the highest group waited 31.1 days, while
those in the lowest tier waited 29.3 days.

Only prostatectomies fell significantly outside the norm: People in
the upper-income echelon waited 4.4 fewer days than those in the
lowest tier. CP

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:44:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 5:25:59 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> I grew up hearing trains and it is possible I won't be able to sleep
> without a train going by occasionally. However, I disagree about freight
> trains--a freight train trundling by in the rain is more beautiful than
> any passenger train. Thank you ....

Ha! I grew up hearing a fog horn. But they are hard to find, so
I've had to make do with trains. I'm a long way from train tracks
here, but I can still hear them sometimes. And there's a plane
that goes over very low early in the morning (I think that's a
Fed Ex plane).

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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KK:
> One of the things that surprised me about SoCal was the number of
> superhairy dogs I would see. I don't know why people do that to
> animals.

Doesn't heavy fur also serve to insulate against heat?

--
Richard 11:14    7 pair clean, check.  1 pair unclean, check.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:02:14 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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The fact that it's staying light so much later.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:08:20 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Diegetic Mutant Hog wrote:

> > Do I need to mail it to you?  Can't you just get it from the web?
>
> You are indeed correct, Dr Maynor. I will get it from the web
> immediately.

But Dr. Voigtlander said that she had mailed them to you already.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:12:32 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Diegetic Mutant Hog wrote:

>  For instance, Dr
> Voigtlander's "enlightened self-interest" led her to send
> images of scarcely believable size and dimensions. They
> must needs be processed. Etc. Peace ...

I did reduce the size from mammoth to slightly less than mammoth.  But I
didn't crop in any way since I thought maybe part of what we were
supposed to look at was the full view of the scenery.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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>>That must have the case with Clyde.  There was no further charge for the
>>copies.
>
>Oh, I'm sure it's included in the base price which you paid mightily
>for.  We just don't give these things away any longer.
>Betty

$127.48 for taking the pictures and $70.80 for reading them.   They tried
to charged $171 for reading them but the insurance company would only allow
them to charge $70.80.


    --bonniev

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>Do I need to mail it to you?  Can't you just get it from the web?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I mailed them to him and I got back a pleasant (I'll bet automated) reply.


    --bonniev

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Karen Kay wrote:
> > If I were a deer, I'd consider packing my duffle bag and moving to a
> > warmer climate.
>
> Where is deer overpopulation not a problem?

I don't know.  I just wouldn't want to live in the cold.  I've wondered
before why animals like deer are willing to live in cold places.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:45:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
> >That's cheaper than my last heating bill (in relation to the time
> >covered).  Mine was $250 for 30 days of heat.
>
> Good Lord! Mine went from about $70 to about $118, and I didn't like it.

As I said, I would prefer to live in a smaller space.  This is one of
the reasons.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:46:23 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> That is all utilities - not just heat.

My bill was just heat.  Everything else, including the hot-water tank,
is electric.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:47:43 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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bonniev wrote:

>> I don't feel headachey this morning (actually,
>> I've noticed that I tend to feel pressure behind my eyes).
>> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>
>
> How do you distinguish that from a sinus headache?  Should you be running
> with high blood pressure??
>

        It's not in my sinuses.  The ache is in my eyeballs sockets
sorta.  Hard to describe.  For me, the headaches are dull
and no big deal.  I probably wouldn't pay any attention if I
didn't know my bp was high.

        I probably shouldn't be running. I dunno.  It helps with
stress, but I guess stress isn't my issue.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:50:13 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
> >That's cheaper than my last heating bill (in relation to the time
> >covered).  Mine was $250 for 30 days of heat.
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> Our electric bill is another $80 or $90 on top of the fuel oil.  The

Mine also.  The one that came yesterday was around that amount.  But it
covers lots of things, from whatever its role is in the heating system
to heating water to fueling my computer to the electric teevee when I
turn it on, etc.

> Thanks for putting up the pictures, Natalie.

You're welcome.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 05:31 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>>That must have the case with Clyde.  There was no further charge for the
>>>copies.
>>
>>Oh, I'm sure it's included in the base price which you paid mightily
>>for.  We just don't give these things away any longer.
>>Betty
>
>$127.48 for taking the pictures and $70.80 for reading them.   They tried
>to charged $171 for reading them but the insurance company would only allow
>them to charge $70.80.

Pretty cheap exam!

Betty

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:08:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 4:44:46 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I don't know.  I just wouldn't want to live in the cold.  I've wondered
> before why animals like deer are willing to live in cold places.

One of the things that surprised me about SoCal was the number of
superhairy dogs I would see. I don't know why people do that to
animals.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:09:21 -0600
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 4:52:58 PM, Diegetic Mutant Hog wrote:

> Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
>> Diegetic Mutant Hog wrote:
>>
>> > Yeah, mail it to this address, Dr Maynor. We will open up
>> > an FTPish area "real soon now".
>>
>> Do I need to mail it to you?  Can't you just get it from the web?

> You are indeed correct, Dr Maynor. I will get it from the web
> immediately.

Are they up yet? What are we looking at?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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From: Diegetic Mutant Hog <whore@words-l.org>
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Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Diegetic Mutant Hog wrote:
>
> > Yeah, mail it to this address, Dr Maynor. We will open up
> > an FTPish area "real soon now".
>
> Do I need to mail it to you?  Can't you just get it from the web?

You are indeed correct, Dr Maynor. I will get it from the web
immediately.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:27:48 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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http://walt.cs.msstate.edu/~maynor/Pole/

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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----- Original Message -----
From: "Natalie Maynor" <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 6:27 PM
Subject: Electric etc. Pics


> http://walt.cs.msstate.edu/~maynor/Pole/
>
> --

Why did they move the pole? I must have missed the reason.


alec

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:22:27 -0600
From: Diegetic Mutant Hog <whore@words-l.org>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Message-ID: <20030218232227.GA13543@words-l.org>
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Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 4:52:58 PM, Diegetic Mutant Hog wrote:
> > Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> >> Diegetic Mutant Hog wrote:
>
> >> > Yeah, mail it to this address, Dr Maynor. We will open up
> >> > an FTPish area "real soon now".
> >>
> >> Do I need to mail it to you?  Can't you just get it from the web?
>
> > You are indeed correct, Dr Maynor. I will get it from the web
> > immediately.
>
> Are they up yet? What are we looking at?

The quality of patience is always attractive in a child.
The pictures are already available at Dr Maynor's site;
but for the web more work is required. For instance, Dr
Voigtlander's "enlightened self-interest" led her to send
images of scarcely believable size and dimensions. They
must needs be processed. Etc. Peace ...

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:25:59 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Please review this property listing foundonwww.latter-blum.com.
         From: www.latter-blum.com
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02003-02-18 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> I don't mind hearing trains.  I loved waking up in Japan to the sound of
> a train since that made me know it was morning.  But I wouldn't want to
> have to look at a train track beside my backyard.  Also, I prefer
> passenger trains, which I'm sure the ones in BSL aren't.  Freight trains
> are less <pleasant> to observe.

I grew up hearing trains and it is possible I won't be able to sleep
without a train going by occasionally. However, I disagree about freight
trains--a freight train trundling by in the rain is more beautiful than
any passenger train. Thank you ....

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:44:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 5:22:27 PM, Diegetic Mutant Hog wrote:
> The quality of patience is always attractive in a child.

It is?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Sunday, February 16, 2003 at 11:50, Janet Hardy wrote:

> That works OK for most parts of the floor, but not in the kitchen. I
> suppose what would work best would be to get down there with a scrub
> brush and a sponge, but... no.
>
> I don't think the floors here are meant to be carpeted. Like the
> concrete pillars and the exposed brick walls, they're just part of
> the look of the place (which, BTW, I quite like).

You might consider putting down commercial vinyl tiles. These are so
not like those peel & stick prefinished things - they are what you
find in commercial areas that aren't upscale enough for marble or
ceramic and need a harder wearing surface than carpet. They are
amazingly tough, and clean very easily. You can wax them or just
leave them alone and wash as needed.

Now you're thinking "tacky" probably... But have a look at them in
some commercial settings. If well chosen they can go very well in the
sort of place it sounds as though you have. They do need to be glued
down, but these days the glue doesn't reek (or catch fire), and it's
quite easy to do. We have them in our basement playroom (that's
*kids' playroom*) and they look fine after three years or so of no
maintenance at all.

Tony H.

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Monday, February 17, 2003 at 18:35, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> I think I've said before that I find the huge portions served these days
> in restaurants grotesque and repulsive.  And I haven't noticed that it
> varies by region, at least within the US.  I've been in a few
> restaurants here and elsewhere in recent years that served appropriate
> amounts, but most I've been in serve way, way too much.

It does seem to be a US thing. Very few places here serve those huge
portions - I never fail to be surprised and repulsed when on trips to
the US. I think the drinks are the worst - it's quite impossible to
find a small coffee or Coke. The US "small" is about a Canadian
medium to large.

How did it start? Is it like peacocks' tails?

Tony H.

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KK:
>>     Units 22, 24A, and 24B.  8-(
> What does this mean, exactly?

I'm guessing JMW has predatorily tramped through the
abovementioned areas, rifle in hand, and has come home...

...with a rifle in his hand.

(I always liked my uncle's duck a la birdshot, m'self.

--
the great white eater-of-hunters-bag

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On Monday, February 17, 2003 at 18:39, Tushar Samant wrote:

> > > 02003-02-17 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> > >> I think this document is a good example of what happens when
> > >> programmers write their own documentation. I have to say that
> > >> once I found this section, that the section is not all that
> > >> unclear. But I would never have found the section if you hadn't
> > >> told me that it was definitely in that document.
> >
> > > I would take that as a warning sign that the coding may be
> > > similarly organized, and the program unreliable.
> >
> > Oh, I don't. Programmers are just impatient with words. You are
> > the exception, o my darling!
>
> No, they are not. Sorry. That's some kind of science fiction nerd
> image, of atrabilious genius unwilling to talk. Impatient with words
> means impatient with code; chances are the code will have stupid
> "convenient" decisions all over.

I'm 100% with Tushar on this one, having seen oh-so-many examples
over the years.

Tony H.

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Do I respond to anyone but KK this p.m.?:
> Ha! I grew up hearing a fog horn. But they are hard to find, so
> I've had to make do with trains. I'm a long way from train tracks

I have the Algiers Ferry foghorn, and the N.O. Public Belt R.R.,
but there's nothing like the 4 years I spent in college tucked
right under the L tracks.

--
Richard 11:14    7 pair clean, check.  1 pair unclean, check.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 17:55:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 5:52:24 PM, RICHARD J. SCHEIDT wrote:

> KK:
>> One of the things that surprised me about SoCal was the number of
>> superhairy dogs I would see. I don't know why people do that to
>> animals.

> Doesn't heavy fur also serve to insulate against heat?

Not by the way these animals would shed.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 15:56:46 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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>Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 4:44:46 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>  I don't know.  I just wouldn't want to live in the cold.  I've wondered
>>  before why animals like deer are willing to live in cold places.
>
>One of the things that surprised me about SoCal was the number of
>superhairy dogs I would see. I don't know why people do that to
>animals.

Amy always seems too warm if she's shaggy when the weather turns hot
here, but then she acts miserable if I get her clipped.

Janet

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On Monday, February 17, 2003 at 22:47, bonniev wrote:

> I think some yard is better than no yard.   I don't like it when houses are
> so close together that you can reach out a window and touch the house next
> door.  I don't like it when people walking past the house can see what  you
> are watching on TV.

I went by the house where I grew up recently, and those @#$%^s have
put a *huge* plasma TV on the mantlepiece where everyone going by can
see (can't not see) what they're watching. I think there's a certain
element of "look at us - we can afford to spend $20K on a TV to go
with our two 5 series BMWs."

Tony H.
Wishing I could afford to live in the house I grew up in. :-(

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Karen Kay wrote:
> One of the things that surprised me about SoCal was the number of
> superhairy dogs I would see. I don't know why people do that to
> animals.

I've read and heard that hairiness can also insulate against heat and
keep a dog cooler, but I'm skeptical.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:10:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Are they up yet? What are we looking at?

We're looking at B&C&al in snow.  I can't remember now where I put
them.  Wait -- I think they're here:
http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ski/

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 6:10:49 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> We're looking at B&C&al in snow.  I can't remember now where I put
> them.  Wait -- I think they're here:
> http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ski/

I like Bonnie's hat. Gorgeous park.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Tushar Samant wrote:

> I grew up hearing trains and it is possible I won't be able to sleep
> without a train going by occasionally.

I understand that feeling.  I think I reported at the time about how I
almost couldn't go to sleep my first night in this house because of the
wondrous silence -- after having gotten used to human howls outside my
window all night in my previous house.

> However, I disagree about freight
> trains--a freight train trundling by in the rain is more beautiful than
> any passenger train. Thank you ....

I respectfully question your taste in train aesthetics.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> >> Where is deer overpopulation not a problem?
>
> >     Units 22, 24A, and 24B.  8-(
>
> What does this mean, exactly?

    That the Sonoran Desert ain't prime deer habitat.  Oh, they're
THERE, but you don't exactly have to kick them out of the way.  Did see
the track of one doe this weekend, however.  Of course, it was javelina
season, which explains why I saw even that much.

JMW

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At 05:44 PM 2/18/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 5:25:59 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > I grew up hearing trains and it is possible I won't be able to sleep
> > without a train going by occasionally. However, I disagree about freight
> > trains--a freight train trundling by in the rain is more beautiful than
> > any passenger train. Thank you ....
>
>Ha! I grew up hearing a fog horn. But they are hard to find, so
>I've had to make do with trains. I'm a long way from train tracks
>here, but I can still hear them sometimes. And there's a plane
>that goes over very low early in the morning (I think that's a
>Fed Ex plane).

I still hear fog horns quite often here.

Betty

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From: "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@noxiousweeds.net>
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On 18 Feb 2003 at 18:10, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> them.  Wait -- I think they're here:
> http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ski/
>

Also at http://www.words-l.net-->Image Archive-->The Best of 2003.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:28:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:

> Why did they move the pole? I must have missed the reason.

Maybe I failed to mention the pole situation.  A week or so ago a nice
man from the electric dept knocked on my door and said that all the
posts in this neighborhood are rotten and that they were going to
replace them and that the one behind my house was in an
almost-inaccessible location, meaning that servicing it during ice
storms would be a big problem.  (My fence no doubt contributed to its
inaccessibility.)  He asked if it was ok with me if they put the new
post near my driveway.  I said fine, but I thought we were talking about
up near my storage building, not right smack in the middle of my line of
vision from my desk and from my decklet.  I came home one day last week
and saw a new pole in a horribly ugly location.  A few minutes later the
nice man and another person showed up to patch the hole their truck had
made in my driveway.  I asked him why the pole was there in the middle
of the space instead of near the end.  He said they would be happy to
move it if I wanted them to.  Because I don't like to be a complainer
and wouldn't want them to go to extra trouble, I said, "Oh, that's ok.
It's just that it's really ugly there."  He got an emergency call and
had to rush away but said when leaving that they would be happy to move
it and that it would be easier to move it now than after the wires were
on it.

This story is getting too long.  End is that I am not a complainer and
would not have considered calling the electric dept to tell them to move
it, but the nice man showed up again when I got home early this
afternoon and said that they could move it.  So I said that that would
be nice since it really was ugly where it was.  And they moved it.  I
was impressed at how much effort went into that moving of it.  They are
nice folk.  Another way to look at it, I guess, is that the taxpayers of
Starkville spent a bunch on making my view better.

And the nice man said at the end of today's task that they'll be back
soon with topsoil to fill in the ruts their truck had made beside my
driveway.  I told him they didn't need to worry about that -- that that
was not a big deal.  But I bet they do it anyway.  I {heart} Starkville
Electric.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 10:26 PM 2/15/03 -0600, Joanne Jemison <jemison@MCHSI.COM> wrote:

Tushar Samant <scribble@POBOX.COM>
>> Nobody likes a smartass ...

>Good Lord, first a test about chickens and now donkeys? Just what kind of
>group is this anyway.
>
>Jo

You will notice that Tushar Samant <scribble@POBOX.COM> is an unusual person.

Brilliant, and unusual.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:23:40 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
> I grew up hearing trains

My first three years were spent in an apartment right beside the Rock
Island RR tracks. I stood at the end of my crib and watched the trains
for many an hour. I love trains and their sound. Here I can hear the
Amtrak train sometimes in the summer when the wind is just right and the
humidity is high.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:49:39 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Janet
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
>>Rita Chapman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>        I don't think they'll give me the pictures.
>>>
>>They should since you will be the owner of them.
>>
>
> This is the truth. THey don't like to give out scans and x-rays, but
> they must if you ask.


        They wanted to charge me something for my brain photos, and I
didn't want to pay it, so the existence or non-existence of
said brain has remained a mystery.

        That was at an imaging center; the CT will be at the hospital.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Tony Harminc wrote:
>
> Apropos of the discussion a week or two ago, here's a short article
> from today's Globe:

Applauding the Canadian health care system, I report that Ken's fiancee
got a personally-fitted wheelchair. It did take three years, but she
never would have got one at all in the US.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:30:04 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Dossie's pie
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>At 09:56 AM 2/18/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>  >No, that was Barbara. I haven't seen her in a long time, although I
>>still miss her. One of my few relationships that actually went away
>>rather than just morphing into a different form.
>
>A third woman joined us and then we met up with Jay.  One younger woman had
>a neat whipping stick in her trunk she was showing us.

Sounds like a cane, most likely. But I can't begin to remember who
the young lady might have been.

Janet

--
"Dreaming In Color" - a limited-edition anthology of erotica by
Greenery Press authors - now available at
http://www.greenerypress.com/dreamingincolor.htm . Only 500 will be
printed, so order yours now!

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"RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" wrote:

> I'm guessing JMW has predatorily tramped through the
> abovementioned areas, rifle in hand, and has come home...
>
> ...with a rifle in his hand.

    You've got that right.  I always tell everyone that my grandmother
got far more deer with her Buick than I ever did with a Winchester.
(Hell, *one* would have me beat...)

JMW

PS - I was reminded this weekend, tramping around Black Mesa with George
Harrison's "Little Piggies" going through my head, about how I hunted
back when I was a vegetarian.  Well, okay, I wasn't there for the meat,
but at least no moral quandry presented itself.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:35:45 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: my new nephew
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http://www.wdhospital.com/services/babydetail.cfm?id=765

Apparently he's OK except for a hole in his heart.

--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 19:18:48 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:38:44 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> the taxpayers of
> Starkville spent a bunch on making my view better.

Surely it was the electric company's expense, not Starkville's.
Starkville does not own the poles, does it?

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Ha! I grew up hearing a fog horn. But they are hard to find, so

You should consider moving to St. John's, NFL.  I heard fog horns
outside my hotel window quite often when I was there.  I found them
depressing.  Although I'm glad I visited there, I found the whole place
kind of depressing.  I would hate to have to live there.  My feeling
about it is sort of like the feeling I have every time I'm on a plane
that lands in Detroit, especially in winter.  I look out the window
(distantly -- I always have an aisle seat) and see all that dirty snow
and say a little prayer of gratitude that I don't live in such a place.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> http://www.wdhospital.com/services/babydetail.cfm?id=765
>
> Apparently he's OK except for a hole in his heart.

SO tell us they are going to fix that.

alyce

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steph:

>I went because I wanted a really fancy meal by someone who wasn't
>going to insist that he couldn't do the food justice if it wasn't
>in some dead animal reduction that took two weeks to make.

This is what first caught my attention. What a change from most
fancy chefs who look down on vegetarian food.

I'm glad you had a good experience. I'm happy when something
lives up to the hype.

-rashmi

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steph:

>= Nope!  Hospitals do digital pictures. Few still print films. That costs
>= money. She could request a copy for some outrageus amount.
>=
>= alec
>
>Are you sure?  Then either I've not listened again to what it is
>that Rashmi does, or I expect she has a different view on this
>subject.

We still make a huge chunk of money from film. And equipment
for film. We'll also help you (hospital/radiology dept) move to
filmless.

-rashmi

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In a message dated 02/18/2003 7:20:12 AM Central Standard Time,
Espen.Ore@NB.NO writes:

<<
You have absolutely done the right thing - and not too early!

>>

I know.  I'm going to take the advice I gave a friend of mine
when she told me her girlfriend was using her:  you just
gotta stake 'em and move on.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:21:18 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> http://www.wdhospital.com/services/babydetail.cfm?id=765
>
> Apparently he's OK except for a hole in his heart.

I'm not sure what it means for a baby to have a hole in his heart.  Is
this something bad?  Obviously I can figure out that it's not considered
good to be born with a hole in your heart, but I mean is it really
serious or routinely fixable or what?

February 16 was the birthday of one of my first great loves in life,
btw.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:20:42 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>
>
>>>Doesn't heavy fur also serve to insulate against heat?
>>>
>>Not by the way these animals would shed.
>>
>
> I'm glad Richard had heard or read the same thing I had.  Makes me feel
> less mutant.  But where is Rita?  I bet she knows the real answer.


        Out having Ana's favorite birthday dinner.  She is thrilled
with her new pet fish named Blue Fish (of One Fish Two Fish
Red Fish Blue Fish fame).

        The answer is it depends on the coat.  Double coated dogs,
no.  Single coated dogs, yes.  Setters have a coat that
protects from the heat; golden retrievers do not.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:22:44 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Tony Harminc wrote:
>
>
>>it's quite impossible to
>>find a small coffee or Coke. The US "small" is about a Canadian
>>medium to large.
>>
>
> Is there a "small" in the US re cokes?  I've noticed that lots of places
> offer only "medium" and "large" -- as in the fast-food kinds of places
> where I stop when traveling to go to the bathroom but always buy
> something since I think it's tacky not to.  Since they rarely have
> anything that they call "small," I have to get a "medium."  And the
> medium is big enough to quinch the thirst of a whole baseball team after
> a long game


        Yup.  I rarely finish a Coke anymore.  I usually drink about
half before giving up.  I will suck down a jumbo coffee, though.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 19:42:42 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:24:43 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > the taxpayers of
> > Starkville spent a bunch on making my view better.
>
> Surely it was the electric company's expense, not Starkville's.
> Starkville does not own the poles, does it?

Good question.  The electric department is a division of The City of
Starkville.  But surely it pays its own way -- as in people's electric
bills pay for it, not city funding.  As for who owns the poles, I'm not
sure.  In most cases the poles are shared by electricity, telephone, and
tv cable.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 16:31:05 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: housekeeping IMFTATL
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>On Sunday, February 16, 2003 at 11:50, Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>  That works OK for most parts of the floor, but not in the kitchen. I
>>  suppose what would work best would be to get down there with a scrub
>>  brush and a sponge, but... no.
>>
>>  I don't think the floors here are meant to be carpeted. Like the
>>  concrete pillars and the exposed brick walls, they're just part of
>>  the look of the place (which, BTW, I quite like).
>
>You might consider putting down commercial vinyl tiles. These are so
>not like those peel & stick prefinished things - they are what you
>find in commercial areas that aren't upscale enough for marble or
>ceramic and need a harder wearing surface than carpet. They are
>amazingly tough, and clean very easily. You can wax them or just
>leave them alone and wash as needed.

If I owned this place, I'd think about a cork floor, which is a look
I like. But I don't, and it's enormous, so I'm not going to invest in
tile for it.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:20:58 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>> Good Lord! Mine went from about $70 to about $118, and I didn't like it.
>
>As I said, I would prefer to live in a smaller space.  This is one of
>the reasons.

Hmmm. I have 2000 sq. feet and very high ceilings. How big is your new
place?

Bethany

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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>> However, I disagree about freight
>> trains--a freight train trundling by in the rain is more beautiful than
>> any passenger train. Thank you ....
>
>I respectfully question your taste in train aesthetics.

Freight rules! The tracks are just a few feet behind me - I love the
sound.

Bethany

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:36:18 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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It is, of course, <un-America> for me to say so, but I am mightily
envious of the Canadian health-care system.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 2/17/2003 8:19:22 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<  I'm glad you went to see him.  And I am optimistic that
answers are going to be figured out and that all will be well.
 >>

I'm happy for you that nothing serious is out of whack seemingly sofar. Hope
the more intense test results will be ditto. Crossing my fingers (One hand,
anyway)and toes for you. Theo

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Marie:

>It's stopping here now, I think, at least for the most part. I just went
>out
>to my table on the deck with a yard stick. 21". Which is nothing compared
>to
>down in Maryland -- where I heard a report of 49" ! What was your final,
>rashmeeber?

I got a shade over 26". This is a lot for DE.

-rashmi

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Alyce:

>1968-69. No, there is no reason for me to keep up with Chicgao. I
>thought Charlie Trotter was very old because it was so respected and
>well known.

(a) He's in his 40's I believe. From the generation of "star"
chef/restaurant owners. They came into their own in the
late 80s and early 90s.
(b) I thought you scoffed at fine dining, no?

-rashmi


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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:36:32 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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James McIntosh wrote:
>
> Brilliant, and unusual.

Unusual in what way?

alyce

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:49:04 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: my new nephew
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>http://www.wdhospital.com/services/babydetail.cfm?id=765
>>
>>Apparently he's OK except for a hole in his heart.
>>
>
> SO tell us they are going to fix that.
>


        Sure.  If it doesn't close up, they'll do surgery.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Tony Harminc wrote:

> Now you're thinking "tacky" probably... But have a look at them in
> some commercial settings. If well chosen they can go very well in the
> sort of place it sounds as though you have.

I will say on behalf of vinyl that it's not as cold as ceramic.  My
little bathroom (the one I ripped up the flooring in last year) has a
really great-looking ceramic floor now.  My big bathroom has
decent-looking vinyl.  My bare feet on a winter morning can tell a big
difference -- and are happier on the vinyl.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tony Harminc wrote:

> it's quite impossible to
> find a small coffee or Coke. The US "small" is about a Canadian
> medium to large.

Is there a "small" in the US re cokes?  I've noticed that lots of places
offer only "medium" and "large" -- as in the fast-food kinds of places
where I stop when traveling to go to the bathroom but always buy
something since I think it's tacky not to.  Since they rarely have
anything that they call "small," I have to get a "medium."  And the
medium is big enough to quinch the thirst of a whole baseball team after
a long game

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> > Doesn't heavy fur also serve to insulate against heat?
>
> Not by the way these animals would shed.

I'm glad Richard had heard or read the same thing I had.  Makes me feel
less mutant.  But where is Rita?  I bet she knows the real answer.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 2/18/2003 5:28:43 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Applauding the Canadian health care system, I report that Ken's fiancee
got a personally-fitted wheelchair. It did take three years, but she
never would have got one at all in the US.
 >>

Amen to that :-( Theo

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:02:04 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> (b) I thought you scoffed at fine dining, no?

I don't scoff at fine dining, but I fail to get excited by it. I have
missed out on the star chef phenomenon, I fear. I think that in my time
I have eaten in some fine restaurants, but I never thought of those
occasions as memorable because of the food. I think the fact is that
food just does not excite me. Except chocolate. Around here the place to
go is CIA--Culinary Institute of America. It is near Poughkeepsie. You
have to make reservations months in advance. I think that is a lot of
trouble just for food.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:04:01 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tony Harminc wrote:

> I went by the house where I grew up recently, and those @#$%^s have
> put a *huge* plasma TV on the mantlepiece where everyone going by can
> see (can't not see) what they're watching. I think there's a certain
> element of "look at us - we can afford to spend $20K on a TV to go
> with our two 5 series BMWs."

A tv on the mantle?  Wouldn't they have to crane their necks to watch
it?  But more importantly, has nobody told them how tacky it is to have
a tv set in a livingroom (assuming somehow from the description that
you're talking about a livingroom -- an returning to an earlier list
discussion)?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ski/
>
> I like Bonnie's hat. Gorgeous park.

In the first picture -- the one when they're farther away -- I thought
for sure that Bonnie was somebody she wasn't.  The closer shot made me
realize my mistake.  I first thought she was the person on the far
right.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:10:28 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> Hmmm. I have 2000 sq. feet and very high ceilings. How big is your new
> place?

About the same size as yours -- about 2000 sq ft -- and somewhat high
ceilings.  I bet your heat is electric, right?  I don't know about now,
but I do know that when I lived in Knoxville in the mid '70s electricity
was almost free.  It was truly amazing.  If I had electric heat here, my
last bill would have been about $1,000.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] report from NYC
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In a message dated 02/18/2003 12:12:40 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Good horseradish is a wonderful thing.


>>

Have you tried Boar's Head horseradish cheddar?
It tastes like horseradish with a hint of cheddar.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 20:59:51 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:17:06 EST
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In a message dated 02/18/2003 2:51:13 PM Central Standard Time,
Kristin.Sarv@AKAD.EE writes:

<<
that kind of thoughts are not
abnormal if there's been much tension for a long time.
>>

That there has been.  None of the associates like her.
Marie, Mary, Sabah, and James all left our department
because of her.  Annegret tells customers that they should
deal only with her because only she can help them.  Daniel
says that she uses the dark side of the Force to get customers.
But I've had a number of customers tell me that they hate to
deal with her because she is so aggressive.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:17:27 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] report from NYC
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In a message dated 02/18/2003 11:38:52 AM Central Standard Time,
rjscheid@NADAL.LOYNO.EDU writes:

<<
Janet "red of tooth and claw" Hardy:
>I generally order my steak "very rare"

"A competent veterinarian could still save this animal!"


>>

Everytime I open up a unopened package of Boar's Head
roast beef I feel as if I'm draining a freshly-killed animal.
I've never seen anything so bloody.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:17:29 EST
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In a message dated 02/18/2003 10:56:56 AM Central Standard Time,
plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU writes:

<<
I am sure it is awful. I wonder is any of your problems, paranoia or some
other mental issue. You mentioned many years ago, you had some mental
issues.

>>

Paranoia?  No.  Other people have said the same about her.  The
department cannot keep employees; some move to different
departments, some leave altogether, some go to the 21st and
Yale store to get away from her.  There are former employees
from other departments who still will not deal with her.  Erin is
the only one who likes her.  And Annegret thinks that I'm the
one who told management that she changed the schedule
(without permission) to work the big pre-Christmas sale instead
of Daniel.  I got furious at that because he has a wife and three
children to support, but I thought it was best for him to go to
management.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:17:37 EST
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In a message dated 02/18/2003 9:24:59 AM Central Standard Time,
Kristin.Sarv@AKAD.EE writes:

<<
Go to a movie
>>

There are a couple of movies l want to see:  Shanghai Knights
and Daredevil.  Maybe Kathie will be free on Saturday.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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In a message dated 2/18/2003 5:31:10 PM, dumasb@UTKUX.UTCC.UTK.EDU writes:

<< Hmmm. I have 2000 sq. feet and very high ceilings. How big is your new
place?
 >>
That's another advantage of living in Idaho instead of Colorado. This house
is somuch bigger here, many more big windows, cathedral ceilings. etc., but
the utility bill was way lower here than there. I feel extremely lucky that
my daughter #1 found out, and reported it to me. Of course the weather has
been more favorable too, so that helped. No snow at all, just rain. It has
been below freezing some nights, but didn't seem to bother the utility
company! Odd thing happened; the Colorado utility bill for my  former house
arrived here. It was addressed to the right name (dau#2's) but the dumb P.O.
send it to MY new address in Idaho! But that's how I noticed the difference
in price. They better get with it. I have no intention of paying HER bills
again! Done so for a long time, but she's on her own from now on.
Theo

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Espen's, Theo's,
         and Doris' Administrivia (was RE: Is this because of mailwasher?)
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:35:32 -0500
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> I just received this. I believe that the address mentioned,
> espen.ore@nb.no, has been set to nomail some time last year,
> after I joined with my other address, and the only messages I
> know I have handled in a way that could give the effects
> mentioned below are the ones treated by mailwasher. This also
> suits with the first error date being February 13, and it is
> change that this has been done automatically without any
> list-boss contacting me. Is this actually some kind of cheat from
> the spammers?
>
> Espen
>
> >Date:         Tue, 18 Feb 2003 00:22:09 -0500
> >From:         "L-Soft list server at UGA (1.8d)"
> <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
> >Subject:      Your removal from the WORDS-L list
> >To:           Espen.Ore@NB.NO

No, that address has been generating some errors each day, but I've been
letting it go to see if it stopped. It was erroring with, let's see, this:

 5 02/13 02/15 ESPEN.ORE@NB.NO
                Last error: Unavailable; DSN status was 5.1.1

Whether that was because of Mailwasher or not, I have no idea. I doubt it's
a spamming trick.

It errored again, and in today's error report, I see that that account was
removed from the list.

Theo, your Earthlink account also kept erroring as "user unknown" and it was
deleted today as well.

Doris, your INEBRASKA.COM account is erroring with "user unknown." Is that
account still active? If not, say the word and I'll delete the record. If
so, you need to call them and sort out why you're not in their email system
anymore.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:35:44 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         Out having Ana's favorite birthday dinner.  She is thrilled
> with her new pet fish named Blue Fish (of One Fish Two Fish
> Red Fish Blue Fish fame).

I don't know about the fame thing, but I think it's neat that she's
thrilled with Blue Fish.

>         The answer is it depends on the coat.  Double coated dogs,
> no.  Single coated dogs, yes.  Setters have a coat that
> protects from the heat; golden retrievers do not.

I would guess that just looking at a hairy dog, without knowing the dog
or knowing about the breed, might make it difficult to know how cruel it
is to have that dog in the heat.  What you say about the double-coating
makes me think about Henry, my parents' Cardigan Welsh Corgi, in
comparison with Buddy, my mother's fat dog who died last summer.  Unless
you had bathed them or administered Advantage to them, you would think
that buddy had much more hair.  He was long-haired -- lots of long,
fluffy hair.  Henry, otoh, looked almost short-haired -- not short like
a beagle, but not noticeably long hair.  But if you got up close and
personal, you would see that Henry had a major, major undercoating of
hair.  It was pretty much impossible to find your way to his skin.  That
undercoat totally covered it.  Buddy's pink blubbler, otoh, was easily
visible under the filmy long hair.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:35:58 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] report from NYC
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In a message dated 02/18/2003 7:00:28 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
Is there a "small" in the US re cokes?  I've noticed that lots of places
offer only "medium" and "large" -- as in the fast-food kinds of places
where I stop when traveling to go to the bathroom but always buy
something since I think it's tacky not to.
>>

And the medium at some places is the same as large in other places.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 19:50:21 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> > Surely it was the electric company's expense, not Starkville's.
> > Starkville does not own the poles, does it?
>
> Good question.  The electric department is a division of The City of
> Starkville.  But surely it pays its own way -- as in people's electric
> bills pay for it, not city funding.  As for who owns the poles, I'm not
> sure.  In most cases the poles are shared by electricity, telephone, and
> tv cable.

And the big truck on my driveway today said "City of Starkville," with
no mention of the electric dept.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Janet
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At 01:16 AM 2/19/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>steph:
>
>>= Nope!  Hospitals do digital pictures. Few still print films. That costs
>>= money. She could request a copy for some outrageus amount.
>>=
>>= alec
>>
>>Are you sure?  Then either I've not listened again to what it is
>>that Rashmi does, or I expect she has a different view on this
>>subject.
>
>We still make a huge chunk of money from film. And equipment
>for film. We'll also help you (hospital/radiology dept) move to
>filmless.

That was to be one of my goals and I was very excited about it.  It's on
the back burner now with the budget cuts and I probably won't see it before
I retire now.  I'm not sad about retiring. I'm just sad that I couldn't be
a part of this before I left.

Betty

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:00:25 -0500
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> > http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ski/
>
> I like Bonnie's hat. Gorgeous park.
>
> Karen

I like Bonnie's hat too, but the way the road cuts into the hill made me
queasy. Urf.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:10:26 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Tue, 18 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>ceilings.  I bet your heat is electric, right?  I don't know about now,
>but I do know that when I lived in Knoxville in the mid '70s electricity
>was almost free.  It was truly amazing.  If I had electric heat here, my
>last bill would have been about $1,000.

Yes, mine is electric.

Bethany

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 20:43:37 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> > > http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ski/
> >
> > I like Bonnie's hat. Gorgeous park.
> >
> > Karen
>
> I like Bonnie's hat too, but the way the road cuts into the hill made me
> queasy. Urf.

I like all of the hats in their different ways.  I like Bonnie's because
of the nice color, but I think the most interesting one is the one with
the big black ball on top.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 21:06:23 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 21:04:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: report from NYC
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Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 8:51:45 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> Going into snow, *on purpose*. And you people think *I'm* weird.

> Mystified,
> Janet

If it's there, I go into it. If you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 18:51:45 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>  > > http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ski/
>>
>>  I like Bonnie's hat. Gorgeous park.
>>
>>  Karen
>
>I like Bonnie's hat too, but the way the road cuts into the hill made me
>queasy. Urf.

Going into snow, *on purpose*. And you people think *I'm* weird.

Mystified,
Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 21:41:48 2003
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>For instance, Dr
>Voigtlander's "enlightened self-interest" led her to send
>images of scarcely believable size and dimensions. They
>must needs be processed. Etc. Peace ...

Sorry.  That was my inability to deal with what was sent to me in any other
way than to send it on as I received it.


    --bonniev

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> > We're looking at B&C&al in snow.  I can't remember now where I put
> > them.  Wait -- I think they're here:
> > http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ski/
>
>I like Bonnie's hat. Gorgeous park.
>Karen,

I'm the one in the back with the purple jacket.  The hat with the big pom
pom is Susan who owns the Hearthside Inn.  The other woman owns the yarn
shop where I buy all that sock yarn.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 18 22:09:12 2003
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 06:50 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, tony h wrote:

>How did it start? Is it like peacocks' tails?


...or Irish stags' antlers...

I'm beginning to think that your analogy is quite apt.

cwv

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In a message dated 2/18/2003 6:36:15 PM, adamh1@ATTBI.COM writes:

<< Theo, your Earthlink account also kept erroring as "user unknown" and it
was
deleted today as well.
 >>
Haven't used that account in ages, so feel free to delete it. I'm on AOL now
with the username of Groothof2, in case you need that for info again.
Theo

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:03:21 -0500
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Words-l moment on The Guiding Light this afternoon.  A character on the
soap offered to buy dinner for a Chicago cop if he would do him a
favor.   "Dinner at Trotters" he said.

As for Alyce, she didn't scoff at the fine dining we took her out to the
night after SnowBash.  She ate it all up with relish.

>Alyce:
>
>>1968-69. No, there is no reason for me to keep up with Chicgao. I
>>thought Charlie Trotter was very old because it was so respected and
>>well known.
>
>(a) He's in his 40's I believe. From the generation of "star"
>chef/restaurant owners. They came into their own in the
>late 80s and early 90s.
>(b) I thought you scoffed at fine dining, no?
>-rashmi

    --bonniev

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 09:00 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, adam wrote:

>I like Bonnie's hat too, but the way the road cuts into the hill made me
>queasy. Urf.

It's not nearly as precipitous or dangerous as it looks (unless, of course,
you were trying to run a Greyhound bus along it at 85 mph).  The curves are
gradual; the foreshortening of the photo accentuates the "cut."  As you
look at the photo, the rocks just peeping through the snow on the right
side of the photo are coping stones which mark the side of the carriage
road; in the summertime, they extend 2-3 feet above the roadbed.

cwv

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>I like Bonnie's hat too, but the way the road cuts into the hill made me
>queasy. Urf.      --Adam

My hat was unremarkable.  I think you guys have the wrong person IDed as
me.    Looks like you won't be hiking with us then, Adam.   That's a very
flat easy hike compared to most in the Park.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 00:38:48 2003
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:19:12 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
> As for Alyce, she didn't scoff at the fine dining we took her out to the
> night after SnowBash.  She ate it all up with relish.

No, I did not scoff, and yes, I ate with relish. But the greater
enjoyment was eating with you all, and not just the food.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 23:41:49 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Subject: Re: Espen's,
         Theo's,and Doris' Administrivia (was RE: Is this because of
         mailwasher?)
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Adam wrote:
>  is erroring ...

Probably the erroring is due to bad architecting. Oh, please, stop the
verbing.

alyce

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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References: <BFEMJMJCLCODCNHLHBIGMEEDHIAA.adamh1@attbi.com>
Subject: Re:      Espen's, Theo's,
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Date: Tue, 18 Feb 2003 22:28:43 -0600
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>
> Doris, your INEBRASKA.COM account is erroring with "user unknown." Is
that
> account still active? If not, say the word and I'll delete the record.
If
> so, you need to call them and sort out why you're not in their email
system
> anymore.
>
> --Adam
> adamh1@attbi.com

Still active, yes.  It's my regular ISP.
I seem to be getting all my mail.
I'll give them a call.

                    - D. M.

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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In a message dated 2/18/2003 9:07:06 PM, cwv@PANAX.COM writes:

<< >I like Bonnie's hat too, but the way the road cuts into the hill made me
>queasy. Urf.
 >>

Loved the pics, thanks. Hat looks great, but the roads only made me recall
those from Colorado. Nothing to be queasy about. They just are that way in
the mountains, no matter where they are located. Bet the Colorado ski areas
envied the East Coast; it's been rather dry lately, and they were complaining
about the lack of snow before I left. Theo
Theo

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Feels like 1996...
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At 08:22 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, Lisa  wrote:


>Boston topped off at 27.5 inches. I have yet to go outside and dig my car
>out. Luckily my landlord takes care of the driveway (which I don't use) and
>the walkway. I don't mine shoveling but I also don't mind letting someone
>else do it. Besides, the snow I do have to shove is what the plow left
>along side my car, that's the heavy, crusty stuff.

United was in no hurry to get me out of  Boston, and put me on a 9:40 am
Thursday flight (I was originally scheduled on the 9:40 for Tuesday). After
much consideration (well, actually,remarkably little consideration), I
decided that it would be cheaper all around to eat the return half of the
plane ticket and buy a train ticket instead than to spend another two
nights in the hotel.

Result:  I'm writing this from the train as we head into New York, and will
mail it once we get back to DC.  Most of the trains heading in to Boston
from DC today seemed to be running 1 to 2 hours late, but we started out
only 20 minutes late heading south.  I suspect that we'll run in to
whatever was causing those consistent delays once we get further south.

--Elaine

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:28:21 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: words-l <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: my new niece
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I finally got some pictures of my new niece Alena.  She's been
home for a couple of weeks now, and keeping my brother and his
wife very busy.  She's having a hard time sleeping through the
night, but then again so do I when there's a nine hour time
difference.  We were all worried about how big brother Byron was
going to handle having a new little sister, but so far my brother
reports that he seems to be coping just fine.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~pwiebe/pics/alena1.jpg
http://www.xs4all.nl/~pwiebe/pics/alena2.jpg

I need to go back and look up how old she is, I think something
like 18 months.

steph

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 05:44:50 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 05:42:18 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >I like Bonnie's hat too, but the way the road cuts into the hill made me
> >queasy. Urf.      --Adam
>
> My hat was unremarkable.  I think you guys have the wrong person IDed as

I wondered why your hat was being singled out for such comment, but I
did think it was cute that it matched your jacket.  The pompomhat person
didn't look like you at all, imho.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 05:47:56 2003
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steph wrote:

> http://www.xs4all.nl/~pwiebe/pics/alena1.jpg
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~pwiebe/pics/alena2.jpg

Cute pictures!

What do you mean about her being back home for a couple of weeks now and
the time difference?  Was she visiting you earlier?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 05:49:37 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: my new niece
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        Total cutie pie!  She looks like fun :).

steph wrote:

> I finally got some pictures of my new niece Alena.  She's been
> home for a couple of weeks now, and keeping my brother and his
> wife very busy.  She's having a hard time sleeping through the
> night, but then again so do I when there's a nine hour time
> difference.  We were all worried about how big brother Byron was
> going to handle having a new little sister, but so far my brother
> reports that he seems to be coping just fine.
>
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~pwiebe/pics/alena1.jpg
> http://www.xs4all.nl/~pwiebe/pics/alena2.jpg
>
> I need to go back and look up how old she is, I think something
> like 18 months.
>
> steph
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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10:21 18.02.2003 -0800 skrev Janet Hardy:
>>Tuesday, February 18, 2003, 11:52:43 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>> I've been thinking about taking some Tai Chi or Qi Gong -- partly
>>> just for getting-off-my-butt reasons, partly as research for the new
>> > book.
>>
>>What's the new book?
>
>Jeeze, I've been talking about it for months (doing a lot more
>talking than writing, unfortunately). Tentatively called "Ecstatic
>Perversion," or maybe "Perverts In Ecstasy" (Dossie likes the first
>one, I like the second). An exploration of the role of
>transcendence/energy/kundalini/tao/you-choose-your-favorite-term in
>BDSM. Obviously, part of the problem of writing it is the absence of
>universally understood language for the phenomenon we're trying to
>describe. We've pretty much decided that, rather than making it our
>typical how-to (since we don't consider ourselves qualified to teach
>in this area), it will be more a description of our own journeys,
>explorations and experiences in this area. We've been doing some
>tantra classes, some psychic workshops, some body rituals, etc., and
>I think that some sort of yoga or martial arts practice is the next
>step.

This sounds interesting. But - and that is a big "but" for me - much of this requires years of patient practive before there is anything writing home about at all, and your research doesn't sound like that kind of thing.

Espen

 --
Espen S. Ore
Oslo, Norway
www.espenore.tk

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09:30 18.02.2003 -0800 skrev Janet Hardy:
>>In a message dated 2/17/2003 11:05:09 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:
>>
>><< Yes. Although, my father, a midwesterner, sent his plate back to the
>>kitchen more than once when there was too much on it. Waiters were
>>reeling in shock. I inherited his horror at having too much food at
>>once.
>> >>
>>
>>I've never been a big eater, but I like meat. Sorry, you vegetarians,
>>although I love vegetables too. But I shudder at what Americans call *rare*
>>steak. It would not even be considered medium, where I came from.
>
>Depends on the restaurant. My rule of thumb is that the more
>expensive the restaurant, the rarer a "rare" steak will be. I
>generally order my steak "very rare" or "as rare as you can get the
>chef to send it out" in anything but the best restaurants, but in the
>really good ones I can order "rare" and get what I want.
>
>Now, of course, some restaurants won't do "rare" for liability
>reasons. They don't generally get my business twice.

I remember the joy of ordering and getting a "bleu" steak somewhere in the Latin quarter - a long time ago now.

Espen

 --
Espen S. Ore
Oslo, Norway
www.espenore.tk

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 05:47:18 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:
>
> I finally got some pictures of my new niece Alena.  She's been
> home for a couple of weeks now, and keeping my brother and his

Wait!  I just remembered.  She's new because she was recently adopted.
Can't believe I had forgotten that.  I think my brain is still asleep
this morning.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 05:52:29 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: my new nephew
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>http://www.wdhospital.com/services/babydetail.cfm?id=765
>>
>>Apparently he's OK except for a hole in his heart.
>>
>
> I'm not sure what it means for a baby to have a hole in his heart.  Is
> this something bad?  Obviously I can figure out that it's not considered
> good to be born with a hole in your heart, but I mean is it really
> serious or routinely fixable or what?


        He's early because of my sister's health problems, so
something didn't close up is how I heard it.  He's well
enough to go home from the hospital and appears normal.  It
sounds to me like it is routinely fixable, although I would
have been a wreck if it was Ana.  Her pediatrician once
thought he heard a heart murmer, so she had an ultrasound...
I aged ten years during the experience, but I did see her
beautiful heart on the TV :).


> February 16 was the birthday of one of my first great loves in life,
> btw.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Subject: Re: Hypertensive headaches
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09:54 18.02.2003 -0800 skrev Janet Hardy:
>>08:14 18.02.2003 -0500 skrev bonniev:
>>>>Yes to the headaches. My old ones came back last autumn but then
>>>>dissapeared as my mixed treatment started to work.
>>>
>>>Can you describe what the headache feels like?  Dull or sharp.  All over or
>>>in spots.  Etc.
>>
>>Overpowering, almost - rather sharp and making me feel sick at
>>times, and also they might be in the back of the head or at one side.
>
>Isn't that a fairly accurate description of most folks' experience of migraine?

So maybe I have a hypertensive migraine ...

Espen

 --
Espen S. Ore
Oslo, Norway
www.espenore.tk

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13:36 18.02.2003 -0500 skrev bonniev:
>>The next one will be high, too, because of this last string of
>>zero and below zero days. I think that people without a ceiling price
>>are now paying about $1.59.
>>alyce
>
>We just paid $1.729 for our 207 gallons.

This seems extremely expensive to me, even if I do quick math to get it metric. When I still had to heat my own flat in Bergen (in Oslo the heat comes with the rent) I would pay less tha $3 per gallon.

Espen

 --
Espen S. Ore
Oslo, Norway
www.espenore.tk

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
>go is CIA--Culinary Institute of America. It is near Poughkeepsie. You
>have to make reservations months in advance. I think that is a lot of
>trouble just for food.

>From the other side: Bruce and I had lunch there just last month.

The food is good, the service shaky -- a bunch of awkward students rather
than the more streetwise servers one is accustomed to.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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   WORDS-L@uga.cc.uga.edu, wordsmith100@hotmail.com
From: robertoibarra@meloo.com ()
Subject: Eight-Cent Secret to Safe, Simple,
         Effective Septic Tank Maintenance!         1027363111
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 08:56:37 -0500
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>From: steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM>
>This is easy easy easy to make.  Grate the root.  Add vinegar.
>Add beet juice if you like it pink.
>
>The longer the grated horseradish is in the air before you add the
>vinegar, the stronger it gets.  I was a little worried about how
>strong it would be, so I worked really fast.  Too fast.  It was
>good, but it was wimpy.

I made horseradish with beets for Passover last year which was anything but
wimpy -- whoo-ee!

1 medium horseradish root (about 1/2 cup)
1 16 oz can of beets, drained
1 tsp salt
1/4 tsp pepper
2 Tbsp sugar
3/4 cup white vinegar

Peel horseradish and grate it by hand or with a food processor (I used the
f.p.).

Grate the beets, adding them to the horseradish. Combine well.

Add the salt, pepper and sugar gradually. Since the strength of the
horseradish will vary according to age and the individual root, you should
test as you add each ingredient.

Add all the vinegar the horseradish and beets will absorb. Adjust to taste.
Mix well.

Store in the refrigerator in a tightly covered jar. Serve with gefilte fish
or boiled beef.

Source: Joan Nathan. The Jewish Holiday Kitchen.

Marie


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From: "Espen S. Ore" <espen@espenore.tk>
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:01:56 +0100
Subject: Re: my new niece
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09:28 19.02.2003 +0100 skrev steph:

>I need to go back and look up how old she is, I think something
>like 18 months.

Beautiful!

Espen

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Jim Bradley <fna104@uriacc.uri.edu>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>
>Don't remember what I did, which means I probably just used a
>knife.  Maybe a vegetable peeler?  The root I had was a good ten
>inches, with maybe a diameter of almost an inch at the top.

The one time I tried fresh horseradish, the roots were only about
1/4" diameter. A real bitch to peel; I gave up.

/Jim

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>The pompomhat person didn't look like you at all, imho.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I should hope not.  She's about eight inches shorter and six inches
rounder.  I could see why you thought Deb looked a bit like me,
though.  She looks like a younger me in that picture although she also is a
bit shorter and slightly rounder.


    --bonniev

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 09:37:53 -0500
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Subject: Those crazy Russians
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Here are some pictures of my crazy Russian friends in VT enjoying balmy Lake
Memphremagog.  How much vodka does it take...

http://www.memphre-web.com/polar/

BrP

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http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/19/nyregion/19RALL.html

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At 05:57 PM 2/17/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
>>bonniev wrote:
>> > I think it's because people who grew up eating cream of mushroom soup and
>> > iceberg lettuce don't really understand that there are better foods.
>>
>>We had iceberg lettuce in my childhood, but I quickly caught on that it
>>sucked.  What kind of lettuces did you have when growing up?
>>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>I don't remember having lettuce at all.  I only remember shredded carrots
>in jello.   But iceberg lettuce is still the norm in northern
>Wisconsin.   I never learned that it sucked.   In fact, I still rather like
>it.  It's so much crunchier than the other lettuces.   I do appreciate a
>mixed greens salad, however, when nicely dressed with a bit of cheese and
>nuts.
>
>
>    --bonniev


Iceberg has come up on this list before and I always thought it was rather
snobby of people to scoff at it, treating it as a lower class lettuce.

I too grew up on iceberg lettuce. For the longest time it was the only kind
I liked. Other varieties were too strong for me.

As an adult I like iceberg for my hamburgers or sandwiches and other types
of lettuce for my salads.

lisa

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At 06:21 PM 2/17/2003 -0500, alyce cresap wrote:
>Karen Kay wrote:
> > Er, most of it was written by professional writers,
>
>For me, a professional writer is one who is able to convey ideas
>clearly. I am still waiting to get some instructions to something,
>anything, that do that. I say they are incompetent then, if not
>illiterate.
>
>alyce

Whoa.. you're pretty hard on the writers.

Consider what they're up against. We 15 software engineers here. There are
7 people to perform QA (quality assurance) on the software the engineers
produce. There is only one person here who documents the software. She is
responsible for gathering and making sense of the installation instructions
as well as all the functionality descriptions.

This is the first time I've worked for a company who has QA'd the Doc.
Having them do so has been a big help to our writer and I'm sure to the
customer.

Personally, when I read documentation, I usually end up skipping through
it. By the time I've resorted to looking at it, I've already tried to do a
few things on my own. When my intuition fails me, I don't want a lot of
words, I want quick answers and/or instructions.  Good documentation, to
me, is one in which I can easily weed through the text and pick out the
commands I think will help me.

Typically the worst documentation comes from engineers. They may be the
most knowledgeable in a particular area but they take a lot of things for
granted. It's rare to receive instructions that work on the first try.
Typically something fails and it's because they forgot to add a step or two
or four.

lisa

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I think seriously about publishing my grandmother's Greece diaries. A very rough estimate now when about 34,000 words have been transcribed is that the combined total for both will be 55,000 or maybe a little less. For those of you who know: how much is this in published pages (not considering whether Norwegian word lengths work out as the same as English ones)? My estimate for the longest diary is a little below 35,000 words, and my idea is to make one full book size publication out of this, with an introduction and some (but not too many - this is not supposed to be a scholarly work) notes. My introduction might add up to 5000 words - or less if this becomes too much.

Espen

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 8:30:17 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> Iceberg has come up on this list before and I always thought it was rather
> snobby of people to scoff at it, treating it as a lower class lettuce.

I don't think of it as lower class. I just don't like it. I don't
like fish eggs either. Are those lower class?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 09:36:41 2003
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 8:37:53 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> Here are some pictures of my crazy Russian friends in VT enjoying balmy Lake
> Memphremagog.  How much vodka does it take...

How come there are 4 people in the first picture and 3 in the
last?! Uh-oh...

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 09:36:42 2003
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 8:06:08 AM, bonniev wrote:
>>The pompomhat person didn't look like you at all, imho.
>>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

> I should hope not.  She's about eight inches shorter and six inches
> rounder.

No, I was not taken in.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Iceburg lettuce is one of those things that I grew up with - like white bread, protestant
christianity and heterosexuality - and didn't question until I discovered there were more
interesting <alternatives> available to me.


BrP





> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 8:30:17 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > Iceberg has come up on this list before and I always thought it was rather
> > snobby of people to scoff at it, treating it as a lower class lettuce.
>
> I don't think of it as lower class. I just don't like it. I don't
> like fish eggs either. Are those lower class?
>
> Karen,
> Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 09:44:16 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 8:37:53 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> > Here are some pictures of my crazy Russian friends in VT enjoying balmy Lake
> > Memphremagog.  How much vodka does it take...
>
> How come there are 4 people in the first picture and 3 in the
> last?! Uh-oh...


You are an evil person -

- and that's why I love you


BrP aka ET

>
> Karen,
> Not a practical-minded weasel

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 2:28:21 AM, steph wrote:
> I finally got some pictures of my new niece Alena.

Happy child!

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Subject: Re[2]: Bitch clothes
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 9:55:17 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> If it is not the writers' fault, then I
> will move the blame to the owners of the companies who let poor
> instructions out.

The time line for documentation at the last company I worked at
in San Jose was that the docs had to be done six weeks before the
product in order for the product to be shipped with docs. Changes
were inevitably introduced during that time.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Elaine
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>
>Result:  I'm writing this from the train as we head into New York, and will
>mail it once we get back to DC.  Most of the trains heading in to Boston
>from DC today seemed to be running 1 to 2 hours late, but we started out
>only 20 minutes late heading south.  I suspect that we'll run in to
>whatever was causing those consistent delays once we get further south.
>
>--Elaine

Elaine, where are you supposed to be living now?

Betty

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 9:03:43 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> This is the first time I've worked for a company who has QA'd the Doc.

This should be a far more common practice than it is.

> Typically the worst documentation comes from engineers. They may be the
> most knowledgeable in a particular area but they take a lot of things for
> granted. It's rare to receive instructions that work on the first try.
> Typically something fails and it's because they forgot to add a step or two
> or four.

That's my experience, too, but Tony and Tushar say these guys are
bad programmers, too. That's a delightful thought.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Subject: Re[2]: Those crazy Russians
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 9:41:07 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

>> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 8:37:53 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>> > Here are some pictures of my crazy Russian friends in VT enjoying balmy Lake
>> > Memphremagog.  How much vodka does it take...
>>
>> How come there are 4 people in the first picture and 3 in the
>> last?! Uh-oh...


> You are an evil person -

> - and that's why I love you


> BrP aka ET

>>
>> Karen,
>> Not a practical-minded weasel

<blush> I love you too, ET!

And really, there are worse fates than being buried in Lake
Memphramagog...

Karen

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 9:03:04 AM, Espen Ore wrote:
> I think seriously about publishing my grandmother's Greece diaries. A very rough estimate now when about 34,000 words have been transcribed is that the combined total for both will be 55,000 or
> maybe a little less. For those of you who know: how much is this in published pages (not considering whether Norwegian word lengths work out as the same as English ones)? My estimate for the
> longest diary is a little below 35,000 words, and my idea is to make one full book size publication out of this, with an introduction and some (but not too many - this is not supposed to be a
> scholarly work) notes. My introduction might add up to 5000 words - or less if this becomes too much.

I think there's 500 words on a page. Janet will know better, of
course.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:55:17 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> Whoa.. you're pretty hard on the writers.
>
> Consider what they're up against.

Please don't take it personally. If it is not the writers' fault, then I
will move the blame to the owners of the companies who let poor
instructions out. The thing is that all of you who work with computers
in one way or another know a lot of basic things that I don't know.
Computers remain a mystery to me, so even the most obvious things should
be spelled out. I am not alone in this.

alyce

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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>Is there a "small" in the US re cokes?  I've noticed that lots of places
>offer only "medium" and "large" -- as in the fast-food kinds of places
>where I stop when traveling to go to the bathroom but always buy
>something since I think it's tacky not to.

I think the only way to get a truly small coke is to order a kid's meal (or
Happy Meal), which is what I have taken to doing when I need a McDonald's
fix.

Marie

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: my new niece
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At 09:28 AM 2/19/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>I finally got some pictures of my new niece Alena.  She's been
>home for a couple of weeks now, and keeping my brother and his
>wife very busy.  She's having a hard time sleeping through the
>night, but then again so do I when there's a nine hour time
>difference.  We were all worried about how big brother Byron was
>going to handle having a new little sister, but so far my brother
>reports that he seems to be coping just fine.
>
>http://www.xs4all.nl/~pwiebe/pics/alena1.jpg
>http://www.xs4all.nl/~pwiebe/pics/alena2.jpg
>
>I need to go back and look up how old she is, I think something
>like 18 months.
>
>steph

Think she will grow into that coat?  Too cute.

Betty

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Marie Ascher wrote:

> >From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
> >Is there a "small" in the US re cokes?

    You can still get the small bottles.  And I've seen 8-ounce cans.

> I think the only way to get a truly small coke is to order a kid's meal (or
> Happy Meal), which is what I have taken to doing when I need a McDonald's
> fix.

    "But, Brain, no one would buy them if they were called Misery Meals!"

JMW

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Those crazy Russians
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At 09:37 AM 2/19/2003 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>Here are some pictures of my crazy Russian friends in VT enjoying balmy Lake
>Memphremagog.  How much vodka does it take...
>
>http://www.memphre-web.com/polar/
>
>BrP

Oh, my!  Where is the hot tub?

Betty

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10:59 19.02.2003 -0500 skrev Marie Ascher:
>>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>>Is there a "small" in the US re cokes?  I've noticed that lots of places
>>offer only "medium" and "large" -- as in the fast-food kinds of places
>>where I stop when traveling to go to the bathroom but always buy
>>something since I think it's tacky not to.
>
>I think the only way to get a truly small coke is to order a kid's meal (or
>Happy Meal), which is what I have taken to doing when I need a McDonald's
>fix.

Do you get a toy as well?

Espen

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At 06:08 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Food was put here for our enjoyment. I'm not eating food that
>doesn't make me happy.
>
>Karen,
>Not a practical-minded weasel

Food was no put here for our enjoyment. Food was put here to fuel us.

If you're eating for enjoyment, that's you're hobby, your interest, you
passion, whatever. It doesn't mean replace the necessity food meets.

lisa

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At 11:58 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 11:53:04 AM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
> > Decaf coffee I hope? Caffeine is no fun.
>
>It's not?! Oh, for high bp you mean?
>
>Karen,
>Not a practical-minded weasel

Yes. caffeine has been hard for me to give up.


alec


---------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu
''Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power.  We have guided
missiles and misguided men.''  Martin Luther King, Jr.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 12:39:00 2003
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I thought we were going to see twins after your visit.

Betty

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> The time line for documentation at the last company I worked at
> in San Jose was that the docs had to be done six weeks before the
> product in order for the product to be shipped with docs. Changes
> were inevitably introduced during that time.

Whatever the reason, whoever is to blame, the fact remains that I am
unable to understand the instructions for nearly everything I have. I am
not a stupid person. You all may make all the excuses you wish, but it
does not solve my problem.

alyce

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It wouldn't surprise me at all if they went directly to the ice from the banya.

BrP



>
> Oh, my!  Where is the hot tub?
>
> Betty

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> Marie Ascher wrote:
>
> > >From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
> > >Is there a "small" in the US re cokes?
>
>     You can still get the small bottles.  And I've seen 8-ounce cans.


I've only ever seen those on airplanes.

>
> > I think the only way to get a truly small coke is to order a kid's meal (or
> > Happy Meal), which is what I have taken to doing when I need a McDonald's
> > fix.
>
>     "But, Brain, no one would buy them if they were called Misery Meals!"


Oh I don't know - I'll bet there would be a definite <market>.


BrP




>
> JMW

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> At 06:08 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> >Food was put here for our enjoyment. I'm not eating food that
> >doesn't make me happy.
> >
> >Karen,
> >Not a practical-minded weasel
>
> Food was no put here for our enjoyment. Food was put here to fuel us.
>
> If you're eating for enjoyment, that's you're hobby, your interest, you
> passion, whatever. It doesn't mean replace the necessity food meets.
>
> lisa


Put here?
It could be argued that the raw materials were "put here" (depending on your
theology) but I wouldn't call how we arrange and combine those raw materials a "put
here" kind of thing.

BrP

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 10:38:44 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> The time line for documentation at the last company I worked at
>> in San Jose was that the docs had to be done six weeks before the
>> product in order for the product to be shipped with docs. Changes
>> were inevitably introduced during that time.

> Whatever the reason, whoever is to blame, the fact remains that I am
> unable to understand the instructions for nearly everything I have. I am
> not a stupid person. You all may make all the excuses you wish, but it
> does not solve my problem.

I'm not providing excuses, just presenting facts.

Have you ever taken a computer class, Alyce? What makes you think
that you can learn all of this stuff *without* a class?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Espen:
>much of this requires years of patient practive before there
>is anything writing home about at all, and your research
>doesn't sound like that kind of thing.

I guessing the years-of-patient-practice crowd is not
the target market of a book titled "Perverts In Ecstasy".

--
Richard 10:13           Dove Sortie III: MIA

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 10:53:47 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> Food was no put here for our enjoyment. Food was put here to fuel us.

Did you read the news the other day about how supertasters are
more liable to certain kinds of cancers? The reason is that many
foods that are good for them taste too bitter for them. If
fueling was enough, this would not be an issue.

> If you're eating for enjoyment, that's you're hobby, your interest, you
> passion, whatever. It doesn't mean replace the necessity food meets.

Why does it have to be either or? Life is seldom binary.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 10:59:08 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

>> At 06:08 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>> >Food was put here for our enjoyment. I'm not eating food that
>> >doesn't make me happy.
>> >
>> >Karen,
>> >Not a practical-minded weasel
>>
>> Food was no put here for our enjoyment. Food was put here to fuel us.
>>
>> If you're eating for enjoyment, that's you're hobby, your interest, you
>> passion, whatever. It doesn't mean replace the necessity food meets.
>>
>> lisa


> Put here?
> It could be argued that the raw materials were "put here" (depending on your
> theology) but I wouldn't call how we arrange and combine those raw materials a "put
> here" kind of thing.

Point taken. "Made available to us".

I admit that some people feel this way about finger and toenails,
but that I don't.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM>
>I got a shade over 26". This is a lot for DE.

That's a lot for anywhere! 26 inches was what the 1996 storm gave NYC. I
think NYC 'only' got 20" this storm.

I love the tunnels of snow.

Marie

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Subject: Food!  Glorious food!
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I'm starving.  I think I'll go pleasure myself.

Betty

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:32:35 -0500
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>From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@NB.NO>
>Do you get a toy as well?

No, generally not. I have, BTW, only had Burger King or McDonald's once or
twice in the last several years. But when I do, I've taken to getting a
kid's meal to reduce the guilt (and the calories).

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:49:24 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Have you ever taken a computer class, Alyce?

I took a course in basic programmming in about 1983-84.
That is all. The courses in computers are either too easy or too hard
for me. The ones offered around here teach you how to do e-mail, which I
can do quite well, thanks, or else they teach you Fortran or Linux or
whatever.

>What makes you think
> that you can learn all of this stuff *without* a class?

What sort of class would you suggest that would enable me to understand
badly written instructions? The next time I encounter something
unintelligible, I'll send it along to you so you can see what I mean.

alyce

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tzha1@attglobal.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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On Wednesday, February 19, 2003 at 5:52, Rita Chapman wrote:

> > I'm not sure what it means for a baby to have a hole in his heart.
> > Is this something bad?  Obviously I can figure out that it's not
> > considered good to be born with a hole in your heart, but I mean is
> > it really serious or routinely fixable or what?
>
>         He's early because of my sister's health problems, so
> something didn't close up is how I heard it.  He's well
> enough to go home from the hospital and appears normal.  It
> sounds to me like it is routinely fixable, although I would
> have been a wreck if it was Ana.

Patent foramen ovale, perhaps? That little flap that magically closes
almost at the instant of first breath to convert the baby's
circulation from placental to pulmonary. Sometimes it doesn't
completely close, or doesn't stay closed. I gather it's quite
treatable, usually without surgery, but sometimes with. But I'm not a
doctor, etc.

Tony H.

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>
>
>        Yup.  I rarely finish a Coke anymore.  I usually drink about
>half before giving up.  I will suck down a jumbo coffee, though.
>
>
>
>--
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>http://www.etext.org/~rita
>

Decaf coffee I hope? Caffeine is no fun.


alec



------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu

"Peace cannot be kept by force.  It can only be achieved by understanding"
- Albert Einstein

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Book length - or IMFTATL
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At 04:03 PM 2/19/2003 +0100, espen wrote:
>I think seriously about publishing my grandmother's Greece diaries. A very
>rough estimate now when about 34,000 words have been transcribed is that
>the combined total for both will be 55,000 or maybe a little less. For
>those of you who know: how much is this in published pages (not
>considering whether Norwegian word lengths work out as the same as English
>ones)?

Respective word lengths probably will be less a factor than the dimensions
of the page and the font size.  I just looked at a couple of books (6x9"
page size, fairly standard font size [i.e., not agate, probably 12 or 14
pt.], 1" margins, single column, about 27x45 picas) and got a range of 390
to 440 words/page.

cwv

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At 10:05 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>The time line for documentation at the last company I worked at
>in San Jose was that the docs had to be done six weeks before the
>product in order for the product to be shipped with docs. Changes
>were inevitably introduced during that time.

Ah, so there wasn't enough time to do it right, but probably sufficient
time to do it over.

cwv

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:57:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 11:49:24 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> What sort of class would you suggest that would enable me to understand
> badly written instructions? The next time I encounter something
> unintelligible, I'll send it along to you so you can see what I mean.

That's okay; I've seen a lot of badly written instructions.

I don't know what else to tell you. I'm mostly self-taught, but I
studied very hard.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 11:53:04 AM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
> Decaf coffee I hope? Caffeine is no fun.

It's not?! Oh, for high bp you mean?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:56:16 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:

probably 12 or 14
> pt.], 1" margins, single column, about 27x45 picas) and got a range of 390
> to 440 words/page.

I think that 12-14 pt. is too large for easy book reading.
Probably 11 point is more common, but you could do 10 point to save
pages.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:03:19 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hypertensive headaches
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>10:21 18.02.2003 -0800 skrev Janet Hardy:
>This sounds interesting. But - and that is a big "but" for me - much
>of this requires years of patient practive before there is anything
>writing home about at all, and your research doesn't sound like that
>kind of thing.

Well, we've been doing BDSM for about 50 years and with almost 100+
partners between us, so we have a pretty good idea of how the energy
flows in that practice. We're doing the other practices in order to
learn more about how other disciplines view what we see as some of
the same phenomena. So far, tantra seems the closest in philosophy to
my own experiences, although the tantra community as a whole tends to
be rather negative about BDSM -- but it wouldn't be too inaccurate to
describe our subject as "tantric BDSM."

Janet

--
"Dreaming In Color" - a limited-edition anthology of erotica by
Greenery Press authors - now available at
http://www.greenerypress.com/dreamingincolor.htm . Only 500 will be
printed, so order yours now!

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:06:33 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Book length - or IMFTATL
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>I think seriously about publishing my grandmother's Greece diaries.
>A very rough estimate now when about 34,000 words have been
>transcribed is that the combined total for both will be 55,000 or
>maybe a little less. For those of you who know: how much is this in
>published pages (not considering whether Norwegian word lengths work
>out as the same as English ones)? My estimate for the longest diary
>is a little below 35,000 words, and my idea is to make one full book
>size publication out of this, with an introduction and some (but not
>too many - this is not supposed to be a scholarly work) notes. My
>introduction might add up to 5000 words - or less if this becomes
>too much.

A great deal depends on the layout: I've stretched 10,000-word
manuscripts to 100-page books, and squished 80,000-word manuscripts
into 180-page books. For your 55,000 word book, barring cheap layout
tricks, I'd expect a 6" x 9" book to come in at 140 pages or
thereabouts.

Janet

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:07:11 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Iceburg lettuce is one of those things that I grew up with - like
>white bread, protestant
>christianity and heterosexuality - and didn't question until I
>discovered there were more
>interesting <alternatives> available to me.

Sig alert!

Janet

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:09:31 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:07:11 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:

>>Iceburg lettuce is one of those things that I grew up with - like
>>white bread, protestant
>>christianity and heterosexuality - and didn't question until I
>>discovered there were more
>>interesting <alternatives> available to me.

> Sig alert!

> Janet

But correct the spelling of iceberg.


Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:09:34 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Hypertensive headaches
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>Espen:
>>much of this requires years of patient practive before there
>>is anything writing home about at all, and your research
>>doesn't sound like that kind of thing.
>
>I guessing the years-of-patient-practice crowd is not
>the target market of a book titled "Perverts In Ecstasy".

See previous reply.

Janet
patient practitioner

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> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:07:11 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> >>Iceburg lettuce is one of those things that I grew up with - like
> >>white bread, protestant
> >>christianity and heterosexuality - and didn't question until I
> >>discovered there were more
> >>interesting <alternatives> available to me.
>
> > Sig alert!
>
> > Janet
>
> But correct the spelling of iceberg.
>
>
> Karen,
> Not a practical-minded weasel

Thank you ET (Editorial Twin)

BrP

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:14:56 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Decaf coffee I hope? Caffeine is no fun.

Beg to differ. It is the elixir.

Janet
up till 2:30 last night
and sucking down
as much as possible

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:15:16 -0500
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
Subject: WLM on Namibia
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  One of my train friends is from South Africa. I asked if he traveled in
Namibia, he said that Namibia is wonderful, but expensive. He will be
sending me some info and I will forward what I get to the list.


alec




------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu

"Peace cannot be kept by force.  It can only be achieved by understanding"
- Albert Einstein

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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>
> Janet
> up till 2:30 last night
> and sucking down
> as much as possible


better than sucking up I'd guess


BrP

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 11:34:00 -0600
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 11:21:34 AM, Betty Clark wrote:
> I'm starving.  I think I'll go pleasure myself.

In public? You exhibitionist!

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:21:10 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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>From the http://www.ready.gov preparedness page introduced by Mr. Ridge
today, to tell us the real way to be prepared.

"Many potential terrorist attacks could send tiny microscopic 'junk'
into the air."

This is as opposed to giant microscopic "junk"? What is "junk"?

In case of a nuclear blast:
1. take cover.
2. Assess the situation.

This website is really helpful...and stupid.

This cost us $5 million--for the web page, inserts in the next Yellow
Pages, and a billboard in TImes Square.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 12:39:11 2003
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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:12:15 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> Thank you ET (Editorial Twin)

You're welcome, VFBT (Very Fine Boy Twin):)

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:28:37 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:21:10 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> This is as opposed to giant microscopic "junk"? What is "junk"?

Particulate matter.:)

> In case of a nuclear blast:
> 1. take cover.
> 2. Assess the situation.

> This website is really helpful...and stupid.

Do you want him to say "In case of a nuclear blast, kiss your ass
goodbye."?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Do you want him to say "In case of a nuclear blast, kiss your ass
> goodbye."?

Yes. Why kid people? Look at the kits we are to prepare. You'd need a
big house to store the kits--sleeping bags and changes of clothes for
everyone and more.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:35:01 -0500
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http://allafrica.com/namibia/

Looks like they have a lot of financial corrupton, just like here.
--
alyce

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At 01:21 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
> >From the http://www.ready.gov preparedness page introduced by Mr. Ridge
>today, to tell us the real way to be prepared.
>
>"Many potential terrorist attacks could send tiny microscopic 'junk'
>into the air."
>
>This is as opposed to giant microscopic "junk"? What is "junk"?
>
>In case of a nuclear blast:
>1. take cover.
>2. Assess the situation.
>
>This website is really helpful...and stupid.
>
>This cost us $5 million--for the web page, inserts in the next Yellow
>Pages, and a billboard in TImes Square.

Moreover, a <potential> attack will send/release <nothing>.  Idiots.

cwv

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At 11:59 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

> > Ah, so there wasn't enough time to do it right, but probably sufficient
> > time to do it over.
>
>Do what over?

Oh, so although the documentation was faulty, it was not corrected?

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 13:25:27 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:23:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:19:16 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> At 11:59 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>> > Ah, so there wasn't enough time to do it right, but probably sufficient
>> > time to do it over.
>>
>>Do what over?

> Oh, so although the documentation was faulty, it was not corrected?

To do it over would require another six weeks--that's how long
the printing/packaging takes. This is why god invented Read
Mes--to amend the documentation. The documentation isn't done
over till the next release.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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= I'm starving.  I think I'll go pleasure myself.
=
= Betty

W T M I ! !

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:39:19 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> How would you know who has sleeping bags?!

How would you know?

> I bet Riley's family does.

I'll ask him.

alyce

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:39:19 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> How would you know who has sleeping bags?!

> How would you know?

I don't. But I've probably had the issue come up more in the past
10 years than you have, and I've been surprised at how many
people have sleeping bags.

>> I bet Riley's family does.

> I'll ask him.

I feel like we should be betting big money here.:)

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:50:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:43:26 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>> You probably don't know that I shaved my head.

> Of course I know that. I have seen your picture. What else about you is
> unusual?

He is unusually cute and personable.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 14:04:31 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 10:36:22 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>  >
>>  Janet
>>  up till 2:30 last night
>  > and sucking down
>  > as much as possible
>
>better than sucking up I'd guess

Hell, I'd be happy to suck up if I knew who to suck up to.

Earthlink took down the GP website because my credit card had
expired; they sent the expiration notice to a nonexistent address.
Now the whole thing has to be re-uploaded to a different server. As
long as I'm doing that, I'm trying to use the new design I've been
working on in my "spare time" for the last couple of months, but it's
about as glitchy a process as one would expect from a person who
knows little about webpage construction and is careless by nature to
boot.

Hope to have it up later today, but my neck feels like it belongs to
someone else, someone a whole lot older than me.

Janet

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:40:36 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Bush blocks deal allowing cheap drugs for world's poor...
again.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,3604,898527,00.html
--
alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:43:28 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:28:20 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Yes. Why kid people? Look at the kits we are to prepare. You'd need a
> big house to store the kits--sleeping bags and changes of clothes for
> everyone and more.

I think most people have sleeping bags.

But I agree, this is all make work, because we'll all be dead.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:44:14 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:33:42 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
> Yes. caffeine has been hard for me to give up.

Have you tried green tea? It has caffeine, but it seems to be
easier to handle for a lot of people.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> I think most people have sleeping bags.

Who? All the people who have been to Europe? I know no one with a
sleeping bag except maybe my born-again Colorado relatives, and I am not
sure about them.

alyce

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 11:55:46 AM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> At 10:05 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>The time line for documentation at the last company I worked at
>>in San Jose was that the docs had to be done six weeks before the
>>product in order for the product to be shipped with docs. Changes
>>were inevitably introduced during that time.

> Ah, so there wasn't enough time to do it right, but probably sufficient
> time to do it over.

Do what over?

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:46:34 -0500
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Espen Ore wrote:
>
> I think seriously about publishing my grandmother's Greece diaries.

If in English translation, I'd like to read them.

alyce

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Karen Kay
>Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2003 1:44 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: report from NYC
>
>
>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:33:42 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
>> Yes. caffeine has been hard for me to give up.
>
>Have you tried green tea? It has caffeine, but it seems to be
>easier to handle for a lot of people.
>
>Karen,
>Not a practical-minded weasel
>

Yeah, I like it. I am trying no caffeiene for a while to see if it matters.


alec

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:43:49 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Who? All the people who have been to Europe? I know no one with a
> sleeping bag except maybe my born-again Colorado relatives, and I am not
> sure about them.

How would you know who has sleeping bags?! I bet Riley's family
does. Maybe not one for everyone, though, but a couple. People
use them for sleepovers.

Karen,
Not a practical-minded weasel

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 14:04:37 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:17:40 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-18 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Unusual in what way?

You probably don't know that I shaved my head.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 14:04:39 2003
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Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> You probably don't know that I shaved my head.

Of course I know that. I have seen your picture. What else about you is
unusual?

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> He is unusually cute and personable.

I know that, too. He is adorable. I love him as much as you do.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:58:34 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: introduction
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Karen Kay:
= Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:43:26 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
= > Tushar Samant wrote:
= >> You probably don't know that I shaved my head.
=
= > Of course I know that. I have seen your picture. What else about you is
= > unusual?
=
= He is unusually cute and personable.

Nah, he's just this guy, you know?

(please don't say things that will go to his head, we'll just
regret it later)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 14:04:38 2003
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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:27:37 -0500
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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On Wednesday, February 19, 2003 at 10:59, Marie Ascher wrote:

> I think the only way to get a truly small coke is to order a kid's meal (or
> Happy Meal), which is what I have taken to doing when I need a McDonald's
> fix.

Yes! And if I have a couple or three kids with me I'll order meals
without drinks or fries (it can be done, but you have to push them),
plus *one* large or medium drink and two or three small (kid meal
size) cups. Usually they can be convinced to hand over the cups
without too much fuss. That way each kid gets two reasonable sized
cups of drink.

Now if you can avoid the chintzy toys, you're all set.

Tony H.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 14:04:41 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:01:45 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:58:34 PM, steph wrote:

> Karen Kay:
> = Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:43:26 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
= >> Tushar Samant wrote:
= >>> You probably don't know that I shaved my head.
> =
= >> Of course I know that. I have seen your picture. What else about you is
= >> unusual?
> =
> = He is unusually cute and personable.

> Nah, he's just this guy, you know?

> (please don't say things that will go to his head, we'll just
> regret it later)

Two words: Charlie. Trotter's.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 14:59:15 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 12:40:34 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Even stranger, perhaps, is the cause of death: a caffeine overdose.
>"He had high levels of caffeine and ephedrine" in his body, Det.
>Brants said. "He did have caffeine pills with him and other health
>supplements that contained caffeine," pills commonly used by people
>trying to lose weight. Their presence suggests that the death was
>accidental.

[snippage]

>"He was found lying across the seat in an outhouse," said Detective
>Tracy Brants of the Deep River detachment of the Ontario Provincial
>Police. "He had an emergency blanket on him, and it looked like he
had gone to sleep there for the night."

What's wrong with this picture?

(Actually, there's a front-page article in today's Chron about a
proposed ban on ephedra in the wake of the death of some ballplayer.)

Janet

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:51:04 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: mews from Namibia
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02003-02-19 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> http://allafrica.com/namibia/
>
> Looks like they have a lot of financial corrupton, just like here.

Well I don't mind saying that the dumbness of words-l has amazed
me again. Think about it ... isn't there something a tiny bit
weird about everybody suddenly talking about freakin Namibia
as a grand exotic "little-visited" tourist destination? Without
analyzing a thing I can say that every dumbass who visits Namibia
is increasing the corruption that exists. And it's quite likely
that large numbers of people have no food, no water and no doctor.
It's DISGUSTING to see "stunning pictures of natural beauty" taken
by "offbeat travellers" and other less affluent hippies. Jeeze ...
for a while I thought the bastards ran out of doorways to crap on,
but the earth is a big place isn't it ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 15:35:32 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:57:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 10:38:44 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Whatever the reason, whoever is to blame, the fact remains that I am
> unable to understand the instructions for nearly everything I have.

I have a question for you, Alyce.

How do you do with the documentation that is all pictures and no
words? I know Dell does this, because I've worked on the, and HP,
because I have an HP printer. I have other bits and pieces that
are like that, too.

Karen

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> >Who? All the people who have been to Europe? I know no one with a
> >sleeping bag except maybe my born-again Colorado relatives, and I am not
> >sure about them.    --alyce
>
> We have sleeping bags.
>
>
>     --bonniev

What's the big deal about sleeping bags ?  Pretty much everybody has blankets I
assume - and they would function in just about the same way.


BrP

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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Paul R. Barfoot:
= Steph to Tushar:>
= > Shaddup.  I'm the native.  I thought you did say BOBO, but I'm
= > too lazy to go looking, and besides it's your favorite put down.
=
=
= That's "lame"

well, yeah.

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alyce cresap wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
> > >
> > I think most people have sleeping bags.
>
> Who? All the people who have been to Europe? I know no one with a
> sleeping bag except maybe my born-again Colorado relatives, and I am not
> sure about them.

    *A* sleeping bag?  Singular?  I've got, mumble mumble think, four, not
counting the grotty ones from my yoot that I use for ground pads...

JMW

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 08:27 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>>  you meet aged murderers with dogs, etc.
>>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>He's already forgotten me.  I see him from time to time and there is no
>look of recognition when I greet him and Jenny the retired show dog.
>    --bonniev

Who's the aged murder?

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 16:18:41 2003
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Subject: Re: By now...
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>The oil bill has definitely gone amok. My first fill up was at 1.36 a
>gallon. The next fill up was 1.50 a gallon. Last week's fill up was 1.80 a
>gallon. I figure I'm going to need at  least two more before the winter's
>over.
>lisa

Our first was 1.29.  Our second 1.79.   We will probably only need one more
fill up before the winter winds down.  The Inn women at this afternoon's
stitch'n'bitch told me that the thing to do is to prebuy your oil in August
when the price is low.   They paid 98 cents a gallon and prebought many,
many gallons.   Some of the Inns, being kept at 40 or 50 degrees in the
winter, are burning through 250 gallons a week.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 16:26:03 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:21:15 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
> We have sleeping bags.

Put them in your kit.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 16:27:50 2003
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"RICHARD J. SCHEIDT" wrote:
> I guess this Bechler sap was using it to try to get
> in shape.  What does a baseball player care about
> being in shape?  Better crotch grabbing?

Charles Barkley (basketball player) was just on CNN this afternoon
saying that he uses it, but only a half dose because it makes his heart
race. Duh.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:25:45 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >The pompomhat person didn't look like you at all, imho.
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> I should hope not.  She's about eight inches shorter and six inches
> rounder.  I could see why you thought Deb looked a bit like me,
> though.  She looks like a younger me in that picture although she also is a
> bit shorter and slightly rounder.

That was only in the faraway view that I thought she might be you.  In
the closer view I didn't think she looked like you.

Unrelated to that -- the electric dept people were here finishing the
switching of the wires when I got home this afternoon, and I noticed
that the big white truck that says "City of Starkville" on its side also
has the SED logo -- Starkville Electric Department.  So it's not just
any City of Starkville truck.  The electric dept is considered a city
department, though -- unlike the gas company, which is not a city
entity.  Some people are saying, btw, that they think the gas prices
have gone up since Mississippi Valley Gas sold itself to some Dallas
company.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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On Wednesday, February 19, 2003 at 12:53, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:

> Decaf coffee I hope? Caffeine is no fun.

There's a weird (true) story on the go about a still unidentified guy
who died in the woods a couple of years ago of caffeine poisoning.
Um... Ah - here it is:
=====================================================================
Death in woods still a mystery 18 months later
Ontario police unable to identify fit man found dead in an outhouse
on remote trail

By GLORIA GALLOWAY
Monday, February 17, 2003 - Page A4

He was found dead in a privy on a remote cross-country ski trail
outside Deep River, Ont., a small town surrounded by wilderness two
hours northwest of Ottawa.

A year and a half later, the bizarre death remains a mystery. Police
still do not know who he was, what country he came from, or what he
was doing out in the bush by himself.

The man -- a well-tanned, fit, Caucasian who appears to have been in
his 30s -- had walked for an hour and a half from Highway 17 in early
September, 2001, to a trail that most of Deep River's 4,200 residents
don't know exists.

A local man who spends a lot of time hiking in the area came across
the body about two days after death, according to the coroner's best
estimates.

"He was found lying across the seat in an outhouse," said Detective
Tracy Brants of the Deep River detachment of the Ontario Provincial
Police. "He had an emergency blanket on him, and it looked like he
had gone to sleep there for the night."

The man's outdoor clothes were of good quality. His Pepe jeans, which
probably cost more than $100, were held up by a Calvin Klein belt. On
the pinky finger of his right hand he wore a silver ring with an aqua-
coloured stone.

He had a few items of hiking gear with him. His nylon knapsack
contained a candle lantern, a miniature flashlight, a water container
and matches. His Levi's watch was equipped with a built-in compass.

But he had no tent or sleeping bag. And he had no identification. Nor
has anything with his name on it turned up in the repeated searches
of the area that have been conducted on foot and by plane.

"If he had a passport or any other ID like that, maybe he left it in
Ottawa or Toronto to do some off-the-main-trail type of hiking," Det.
Brants surmised.

If that's the case, it's possible that the rest of his baggage is
still stuffed in a locker in a train station or airport in one of the
larger cities.

In the months since the discovery, Det. Brants and her colleague,
Detective Dave Howat, have spent countless hours trying to learn the
name, or even the nationality, of the man who turned up out of
nowhere. But they keep hitting brick walls.

"It's pretty strange. People die in all kinds of weird locations. But
it has been over a year and we haven't been able to find anything
with his ID," Det. Brants conceded.

Even stranger, perhaps, is the cause of death: a caffeine overdose.
"He had high levels of caffeine and ephedrine" in his body, Det.
Brants said. "He did have caffeine pills with him and other health
supplements that contained caffeine," pills commonly used by people
trying to lose weight. Their presence suggests that the death was
accidental.

Which may explain why he was in the outhouse, Det. Brants said.
Perhaps he was starting to feel sick once he got into the bush and
was too weak to construct a shelter.

A few items on the body indicate the man may have been a traveller,
Det. Brants said. He was carrying bottles, for instance, with
unilingual English writing on them, which suggests they may have come
from the United States. He had laundry bags from different hotels:
Sutton Place in Toronto, the Barclay Hotel in Vancouver and W Hotels,
an upscale
chain in the United States.

His luggage was fastened with a sticker from a Costa Rican domestic
airline that caters
mostly to U.S. and Canadian tourists. He was also carrying condoms
distributed by a
limited number of health agencies in Toronto. The police canvassed
those agencies and
Toronto hotels last year, to no avail.

"Our thought is that he's missing from another country, although
we've done the searches internationally and are not getting anything
back," Det. Brants said.

And it's just plain odd that a stranger would have been in that part
of the woods. "It's not well known even among the locals," Det.
Brants said.

Anyone able to help police identify the man should call Det. Howat at
613-584-9456.

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Wednesday, February 19, 2003 at 12:28, Karen Kay wrote:

> Do you want him to say "In case of a nuclear blast, kiss your ass
> goodbye."?

Wouldn't that be "noocular"?

Or is it just The Boss who says that?

Tony H.

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:26:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 2:22:35 PM, Tony Harminc wrote:
> On Wednesday, February 19, 2003 at 12:28, Karen Kay wrote:
>> Do you want him to say "In case of a nuclear blast, kiss your ass
>> goodbye."?

> Wouldn't that be "noocular"?

> Or is it just The Boss who says that?

Mostly him. I hope to god!

Karen

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=
= Two words: Charlie. Trotter's.
=
= Karen

You can kiss up to him all you want.  He's not going to take you.
He thinks it's too BOBO.

Which reminds me, I need to look for that menu so I can write the
rest of the story.

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 2:37:33 PM, steph wrote:
> You can kiss up to him all you want.  He's not going to take you.
> He thinks it's too BOBO.

You forget: I've been to his neighborhood. The man appreciates
The Finer Things.

> Which reminds me, I need to look for that menu so I can write the
> rest of the story.

Yes!

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 16:29:43 2003
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02003-02-17 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> A whole lot of the adjectives I used to have to use writing high-tech copy
> were ultratechnobabble -- Clyde summed up the feeling, although the words
> themselves have changed in the last 15 years ("state-of-the-art" was big
> back then, and now it's "leading edge" or even "bleeding edge";
> "positioning" has become "branding"; "connectivity" has sprung from nowhere
> (and thus is arguably a more useful or necessary word).
>
> If an engineer can read a promotional piece and tell exactly what's meant,
> but a reasonably intelligent layman cannot, there's almost certainly a high
> percentage of technobabble.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

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Janet:
> proposed ban on ephedra in the wake of the death of some ballplayer.)

Even the NFL has banned that stuff.

I guess this Bechler sap was using it to try to get
in shape.  What does a baseball player care about
being in shape?  Better crotch grabbing?

--
Richard 10:13           Dove Sortie III: MIA

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http://www.courier-journal.com/features/2003/02/20030219cheese.html


AS

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>Who? All the people who have been to Europe? I know no one with a
>sleeping bag except maybe my born-again Colorado relatives, and I am not
>sure about them.    --alyce

We have sleeping bags.


    --bonniev

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:54:13 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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Karen Kay:
= Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 2:37:33 PM, steph wrote:
= > You can kiss up to him all you want.  He's not going to take you.
= > He thinks it's too BOBO.
=
= You forget: I've been to his neighborhood. The man appreciates
= The Finer Things.
=

Oh, have I been sucked in by taking him seriously again.  Damn.

= > Which reminds me, I need to look for that menu so I can write the
= > rest of the story.
=
= Yes!
=
= Karen

Well it's good to know I have at least one fan.

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:58:03 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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02003-02-19 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> = Two words: Charlie. Trotter's.
>
> You can kiss up to him all you want.  He's not going to take you.
> He thinks it's too BOBO.

That's not true, of course. It's obviously excellent food ...  It's
just that I have begin to consider myself a Chicago "native", and the
idea of taking a visitor to the most vulgarly obvious hyped-up place
with targets painted all over it strikes me as stupid from a native's
P.O.V. Where did I say anything about "BOBO"?

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:59:36 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030219205936.GD4040@pobox.com>
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02003-02-18 | Tony Harminc <tony@HARMINC.COM> writes:
> > > >> I think this document is a good example of what happens when
> > > >> programmers write their own documentation. I have to say that
> > > >> once I found this section, that the section is not all that
> > > >> unclear. But I would never have found the section if you hadn't
> > > >> told me that it was definitely in that document.
> > >
> > > > I would take that as a warning sign that the coding may be
> > > > similarly organized, and the program unreliable.
> > >
> > > Oh, I don't. Programmers are just impatient with words. You are
> > > the exception, o my darling!
> >
> > No, they are not. Sorry. That's some kind of science fiction nerd
> > image, of atrabilious genius unwilling to talk. Impatient with words
> > means impatient with code; chances are the code will have stupid
> > "convenient" decisions all over.
>
> I'm 100% with Tushar on this one, having seen oh-so-many examples
> over the years.

You know I only wrote this to suck up to you ...

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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02003-02-19 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> > Whatever the reason, whoever is to blame, the fact remains that I am
> > unable to understand the instructions for nearly everything I have. I am
> > not a stupid person. You all may make all the excuses you wish, but it
> > does not solve my problem.
>
> I'm not providing excuses, just presenting facts.
>
> Have you ever taken a computer class, Alyce? What makes you think
> that you can learn all of this stuff *without* a class?

A "computer class" to understand idiotically written instructions ...
This is going to be a classic, K-R-N

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 16:29:48 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:04:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 3:06:10 PM, John Williams wrote:
> alyce cresap wrote:
>> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > I think most people have sleeping bags.
>>
>> Who? All the people who have been to Europe? I know no one with a
>> sleeping bag except maybe my born-again Colorado relatives, and I am not
>> sure about them.

>     *A* sleeping bag?  Singular?  I've got, mumble mumble think, four, not
> counting the grotty ones from my yoot that I use for ground pads...

See, Alyce? I think 4 is uncommon, but I think 2 (one for
indoors/summer and one for colder weather) is not at all unusual.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:11:57 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: mews from Namibia
In-reply-to: <200302191251.18LBbo67s3NZFjV0@sparrow>
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>02003-02-19 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
>>  http://allafrica.com/namibia/
>>
>>  Looks like they have a lot of financial corrupton, just like here.
>
>Well I don't mind saying that the dumbness of words-l has amazed
>me again. Think about it ... isn't there something a tiny bit
>weird about everybody suddenly talking about freakin Namibia
>as a grand exotic "little-visited" tourist destination?

Are they? I don't care if it's freakin' Cancun, I'd just like to see it.

>Without
>analyzing a thing I can say that every dumbass who visits Namibia
>is increasing the corruption that exists.

Obviously. Everybody knows that there's no corruption in places that
have no tourism.

>And it's quite likely
>that large numbers of people have no food, no water and no doctor.

And tourism is making that situation worse in what way?...

Janet

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:11:50 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-02-19 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
= > = Two words: Charlie. Trotter's.
= >
= > You can kiss up to him all you want.  He's not going to take you.
= > He thinks it's too BOBO.
=
= That's not true, of course. It's obviously excellent food ...  It's
= just that I have begin to consider myself a Chicago "native", and the
= idea of taking a visitor to the most vulgarly obvious hyped-up place
= with targets painted all over it strikes me as stupid from a native's
= P.O.V. Where did I say anything about "BOBO"?

Shaddup.  I'm the native.  I thought you did say BOBO, but I'm
too lazy to go looking, and besides it's your favorite put down.

It's not Navy Pier.

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:13:11 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: introduction
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>02003-02-17 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  A whole lot of the adjectives I used to have to use writing high-tech copy
>>  were ultratechnobabble -- Clyde summed up the feeling, although the words
>>  themselves have changed in the last 15 years ("state-of-the-art" was big
>>  back then, and now it's "leading edge" or even "bleeding edge";
>>  "positioning" has become "branding"; "connectivity" has sprung from nowhere
>>  (and thus is arguably a more useful or necessary word).
>>
>>  If an engineer can read a promotional piece and tell exactly what's meant,
>>  but a reasonably intelligent layman cannot, there's almost certainly a high
>  > percentage of technobabble.
>
>You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

Always good to hear that the work that fed me and my family for
nearly 20 years was created by someone who has no idea of what she's
talking about. The clients would be interested in your opinion, I'm
sure.

Janet

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:13:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 3:11:50 PM, steph wrote:
> It's not Navy Pier.

There are good things even for natives at Navy Pier.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:14:19 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 3:06:10 PM, John Williams wrote:
>>  alyce cresap wrote:
>>>  Karen Kay wrote:
>>>  > I think most people have sleeping bags.
>>>
>>>  Who? All the people who have been to Europe? I know no one with a
>>>  sleeping bag except maybe my born-again Colorado relatives, and I am not
>>>  sure about them.
>
>>      *A* sleeping bag?  Singular?  I've got, mumble mumble think, four, not
>>  counting the grotty ones from my yoot that I use for ground pads...
>
>See, Alyce? I think 4 is uncommon, but I think 2 (one for
>indoors/summer and one for colder weather) is not at all unusual.

We have one here somewhere. I use it occasionally when I go to Harbin
-- although I ordinarily go when the weather is so hot that none is
needed -- and we use it as a backup quilt when we have extra people.

Janet

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Steph to Tushar:>
> Shaddup.  I'm the native.  I thought you did say BOBO, but I'm
> too lazy to go looking, and besides it's your favorite put down.


That's "lame"


BrP

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:29:08 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: mews from Namibia
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-02-19 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
= > http://allafrica.com/namibia/
= >
= > Looks like they have a lot of financial corrupton, just like here.
=
= Well I don't mind saying that the dumbness of words-l has amazed
= me again. Think about it ... isn't there something a tiny bit
= weird about everybody suddenly talking about freakin Namibia
= as a grand exotic "little-visited" tourist destination? Without

I don't think any of us has talked about it like that.  It's just
where Rashmi has decided we're going to go.  I'm talking it up
because I want lots of people to consider going.  There have now
been two complete total coincidences related to Namibia for me.
First, that an ex-colleague of mine has a friend who runs tours
there and second that Rita's new nephew happens to share a first
name with someone I worked for more than twenty years ago, and he
happens to be an outstanding photographer who has pictures of
Namibia on his web site.


= analyzing a thing I can say that every dumbass who visits Namibia
= is increasing the corruption that exists. And it's quite likely
= that large numbers of people have no food, no water and no doctor.
= It's DISGUSTING to see "stunning pictures of natural beauty" taken
= by "offbeat travellers" and other less affluent hippies. Jeeze ...
= for a while I thought the bastards ran out of doorways to crap on,
= but the earth is a big place isn't it ...

What is your problem?

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At 02:52 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, RICHARD J. SCHEIDT wrote:
>Janet:
> > proposed ban on ephedra in the wake of the death of some ballplayer.)
>
>Even the NFL has banned that stuff.
>
>I guess this Bechler sap was using it to try to get
>in shape.  What does a baseball player care about
>being in shape?  Better crotch grabbing?

LOL.  I'm glad you're back, Richard.

Betty

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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02003-02-19 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> Shaddup.  I'm the native

If you insist ...

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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02003-02-19 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >02003-02-17 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >> A whole lot of the adjectives I used to have to use writing high-tech
> >> copy
> >> were ultratechnobabble -- Clyde summed up the feeling, although the words
> >> themselves have changed in the last 15 years ("state-of-the-art" was big
> >> back then, and now it's "leading edge" or even "bleeding edge";
> >> "positioning" has become "branding"; "connectivity" has sprung from
> >> nowhere
> >> (and thus is arguably a more useful or necessary word).
> >>
> >> If an engineer can read a promotional piece and tell exactly what's
> >> meant,
> >> but a reasonably intelligent layman cannot, there's almost certainly a
> >> high
> > > percentage of technobabble.
> >
> >You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
>
> Always good to hear that the work that fed me and my family for
> nearly 20 years was created by someone who has no idea of what she's
> talking about. The clients would be interested in your opinion, I'm
> sure.

They won't--they only go by who fed what to whom.

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:00:20 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: introduction
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> They won't--they only go by who fed what to whom.

My apologies; I'm having a very bad day. I don't yell at Amy for scratching
nor Happy for shedding.

Janet

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 03:31 AM 2/18/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>D.M:
>
>>Good for you!
>
>Funny thing is last year all winter we got something like 4"
>of snow whereas this time when I have a driveway to
>shovel we get 2 feet and something like 6 storms already.
>
>Great introduction to homeownership.
>
>-rashmi
>
>PS Sorry Alyce I'll pass on coming up. Maybe when I get one
>of 'em electric snowblowers ...

Get a gas powered one instead. They're more powerful, easier to use and you
don't have to worry about the cord getting in the way.

lisa

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 14:48:23 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 09:37 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Monday, February 17, 2003, 9:31:35 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> > PS Sorry Alyce I'll pass on coming up. Maybe when I get one
> > of 'em electric snowblowers ...
>
>Two words: Snow Scoop.
>
>You probably can't buy them there, but they are *wonderful*. Even
>*I* enjoy moving snow with them. It's good back and belly
>exercise.
>
>Aha!  http://www.snowscoop.com/
>
>Karen,
>Not a practical-minded weasel

My mother had one of those. My brother managed to knock out his two front
teeth with the thing. He slipped, the shovel didn't budge, he face planted
on the scoop, his front teeth we no more.

I was home at the time and seeing him come through the door, crying and
bleeding from the mouth was horrible. I was so upset a neighbor actually
called the ambulance because I couldn't convey what was wrong with him.

lisa

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At 05:51 AM 2/18/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>        Yep.  I'm sure he'll get it figured out.  I told him that
>yesterday... that I was sure he would get it figured out
>since that is his job.


Good Luck. This sounds a little scary so I hope it all works out for you.

>        Today is Ana's birthday.  Born at 12:06am seven years ago.
>*Sniff*.  What a cool kid she is.

It's cool you think that.

>        Did I mention my nephew was born over the weekend?  My sister
>named him Bailey James.  I'm pretty sure Bailey's a girl's
>name, but whatever.

Congrats to your sister. I don't of Bailey as a girl's name. Maybe this is
because I know three people with dogs named Bailey. Mostly though, Bailey
is the name of the Irish Creme I like in my coffee.

lisa

>--
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>http://www.etext.org/~rita

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At 11:27 AM 2/18/2003 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>The killer for me has been utility bills.  It's hard to prep for the
>combination of day
>after day near zero and rising prices brought on by crises in South
>America, Africa
>and the Persian Gulf.
>
>BrP

The oil bill has definitely gone amok. My first fill up was at 1.36 a
gallon. The next fill up was 1.50 a gallon. Last week's fill up was 1.80 a
gallon. I figure I'm going to need at  least two more before the winter's over.

lisa

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>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>We have one here somewhere.

I have one, plus we have a double sized one as well.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
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>Who's the aged murder?
>lisa

It was a long story I posted more than a year ago about a guy here in Bar
Harbor that I started chatting with when I encountered him as I was taking
a short cut to feed The Cleftstone cats one Christmas.  He was out walking
his dog.  He told me he was a poet, published in the New Yorker.  I googled
on his name, Jimmy Jamison, and came up with a reference about fellow poets
who had tried to get his release from the Maine State Prison after he was
convicted for murdering his wife.  So the next time I saw him, I asked him
about it.   We stood out in the cold of December and he told me his whole
life story.  It was the '60s.  He was an activist.  He was a bit
crazed.  He was playing with a gun.  He was drunk.  His much loved wife
ended up dead in their kitchen. He served his time.  He lost an appeal.  He
served more time.  He was released.  He moved to Bar Harbor.  He wrote his
life story.  But it needs editing.  He is the son of a rather famous Jewish
author and activist.  His biography never got published.  He
remarried.  That went bad.  He lost his faith which was important to
him.  He is alone.  His kids from his first marriage were adopted by a
Jewish family long ago and don't speak to him, for which he does not blame
them.  His daughter from his second marriage seldom speaks to him.  He has
given up drinking.   He loves his dog Jenny, a retired show dog.  Etc.


    --bonniev

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>I have one, plus we have a double sized one as well.
>Marie

Our two zip together to make a double.   But we only used them once, some
30 years ago.


    --bonniev

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:18:09 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:48:23 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> My mother had one of those. My brother managed to knock out his two front
> teeth with the thing. He slipped, the shovel didn't budge, he face planted
> on the scoop, his front teeth we no more.

Do you really think this is more likely to happen with a
snowscoop than a shovel?

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 16:29:55 2003
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>Our two zip together to make a double.   But we only used them once, some
>30 years ago.        --bonniev

Well, we only used them once camping.  It was the night we climbed up the
highest mountain in Smokey Mountain National Park and spent a very cold
night in a cabin where we could not keep a fire going.   We used them again
during the ten nights we camped out in this house waiting for our furniture
to arrive.  But they were more like sleeping "mats" that July.


    --bonniev

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:20:36 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Alec D. Plotkin wrote:

>>
>>
>>        Yup.  I rarely finish a Coke anymore.  I usually drink about
>> half before giving up.  I will suck down a jumbo coffee, though.
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>> rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>> http://www.etext.org/~rita
>>
>
> Decaf coffee I hope? Caffeine is no fun.


        I have not given up caffeine.  I like a jumbo coffee, but I
rarely get one.  I have a couple of cups in the morning, and
that's it.  I can't take caffeine withdrawal on top of
everything else right now.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:23:05 EST
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 10:56:47 AM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< I don't know what else to tell you. I'm mostly self-taught, but I
studied very hard.
 >>
I've known you for a long time, and also via computer, so I know you have no
problems with it. Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 16:35:03 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:33:05 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:23:05 PM, Theodora Groothof wrote:
> In a message dated 2/19/2003 10:56:47 AM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:
> << I don't know what else to tell you. I'm mostly self-taught, but I
> studied very hard.
>  >>
> I've known you for a long time, and also via computer, so I know you have no
> problems with it. Theo

The list wasn't in existence when I was first learning to use a
PC in the 80's. I spent a lot of time reading and studying. I was
lucky to have friends in the computer business, one of whom
specialized in writing about computers for ignorami. I spent a
lot of time working at it, and it took years to become
comfortable.

I think that documentation is written to a certain level of
expertise that varies depending on the software. It's not the
documentation's fault when that level of expertise isn't present
in the audience.

This is not to say that there isn't crappy documentation out
there. But I'm not responsible for all of it.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 16:41:32 2003
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:30:55 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> Absolutely.  To use the scoop, you must be directly behind it and pushing;
> your head/face comes in close proximity to the handle.

Uh, I'm shorter than anyone currently on the list, I think, and
even I'm able to use a snowscoop below face level.

> Shoveling can be
> done somewhat "sidesaddle," which places an asymmetric stress on lower back
> muscles to be sure, but does not endanger the teeth.  Even pushing with a
> standard shovel does not place one in position to receive a handle
> sandwich, unless one is a pygmy.

Ah. I must be a pygmy, then.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:40:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:36:12 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Micron announces layoffs of 10% of its workforce worldwide.

Mostly sales and customer support, I guess. And I guess fewer
layoffs in India than Idaho.

Karen

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At 08:00 AM 2/19/2003 -0800, Betty wrote:
b

>>Result:  I'm writing this from the train as we head into New York, and will
>>mail it once we get back to DC.  Most of the trains heading in to Boston
>>from DC today seemed to be running 1 to 2 hours late, but we started out
>>only 20 minutes late heading south.  I suspect that we'll run in to
>>whatever was causing those consistent delays once we get further south.
>>
>>--Elaine
>
>Elaine, where are you supposed to be living now?

*I* am living in Arlington, VA.  most of my stuff is still in a storage
locker in Denver, although it'll be making its way east eventually ...

--Elaine

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:47:57 -0600
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John Williams wrote:
> > >Is there a "small" in the US re cokes?
>
>     You can still get the small bottles.  And I've seen 8-ounce cans.

I wasn't talking about canned/bottled.  My mother drank the tiny cans of
coke, whatever they are.  I was talking about in food-serving places.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:50:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:43:25 PM, Theodora Groothof wrote:
> In a message dated 2/19/2003 10:00:20 AM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:
> << Have you ever taken a computer class, Alyce? What makes you think
> that you can learn all of this stuff *without* a class?
>  >>

> It may surprise you Karen, but some of us actually have!

Duh. And I taught Japanese language courses at Cornell without
ever taking one. So?

I still want to know what makes Alyce think she can learn
all of this without taking a class, especially since she can't
understand anything she reads.

> And some of us have even gotten a job working WITH a computer
> without haven taken a class in it's use. And I don't mean
> word-processing at an office either.

Then why can't you understand what you read?

Aren't you the one who can't even manage to set mail on your own?

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:01:28 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:58:13 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Have most of us ever taken a computer class?

*We* haven't, but the really facile users these days probably have.

Karen

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:05:23 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
That led to a brief discussion about
>bland food, with Pennsylvania and Indiana named as the blandest food
>places the participants in this conversation had ever lived.

More precisely re Pennsylvania, my mother's kitchen.

Marie

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>From: Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU>
>At 05:10 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
>>>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>>We have one here somewhere.
>>
>>I have one, plus we have a double sized one as well.
>
>One what?

Ass.

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 17:14:26 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:26:44 -0500
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Karen Kay wrote:
> How do you do with the documentation that is all pictures and no
> words?

Terrible. Absolutely terrible. It must be something wrong with my brain,
but the pictures do nothing for me. Nor Ken. Neither of us could do a
VCR that had only pictures. It took four people to do m new HP
printer--Ken, Richard from IBM, me, and Doug. DOug finally solved it;
the rest of us had it working "sort of." I think that companies use
pictures to save the cost of providing instructions in different
languages, not to simplify things.

alyce

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lisa alfieri wrote:

> Iceberg has come up on this list before and I always thought it was rather
> snobby of people to scoff at it, treating it as a lower class lettuce.

I've never thought of lettuce as having <class>.  Two things made me
start scoffing at it in early adulthood -- discovering that it had
almost no food value and discovering that other lettuces tasted better.
One of my relatively early exposures to better lettuce was when Daddy
started a garden and grew wonderful little round heads of loose-leafed
lettuce.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 04:18 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>Do you really think this is more likely to happen with a
>snowscoop than a shovel?

Absolutely.  To use the scoop, you must be directly behind it and pushing;
your head/face comes in close proximity to the handle.  Shoveling can be
done somewhat "sidesaddle," which places an asymmetric stress on lower back
muscles to be sure, but does not endanger the teeth.  Even pushing with a
standard shovel does not place one in position to receive a handle
sandwich, unless one is a pygmy.

cwv

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Karen Kay wrote:
> See, Alyce? I think 4 is uncommon, but I think 2 (one for
> indoors/summer and one for colder weather) is not at all unusual.

I am waiting to hear if Tushar has one. I never have slept in a sleeping
bag. I thought they were for outdoorsy people, which I am not.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:31:10 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
> What's the big deal about sleeping bags ?  Pretty much everybody has blankets I
> assume - and they would function in just about the same way.
>
Homeland Security says sleeping bags, not blankets. GWTP.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:37:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:26:44 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> I think that companies use pictures to save the cost of
> providing instructions in different languages, not to simplify
> things.

Yes, it's primarily to save translation costs. Dell often
includes a little verbiage with their pictures, and it makes an
enormous difference in the understandability.

I didn't used to be able to understand the pictures very well,
but all of a sudden I somehow acquired the knack. (But I don't
know whether I'm a visual, verbal, or auditory learner--I am
pretty much equal across the the board.) The pictures are their
own little language.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:36:12 -0500
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Micron announces layoffs of 10% of its workforce worldwide.
--
alyce

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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> Here are some pictures of my crazy Russian friends in VT enjoying balmy Lake
> Memphremagog.  How much vodka does it take...
>
> http://www.memphre-web.com/polar/

I read something within the past day or so about how Russians, or at
least in Moscow, <come to life> in winter.  I think it might have been
on cnn.com.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 2/19/2003 10:00:20 AM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< Have you ever taken a computer class, Alyce? What makes you think
that you can learn all of this stuff *without* a class?
 >>

It may surprise you Karen, but some of us actually have! And some of us have
even gotten a job working WITH a computer without haven taken a class in it's
use. And I don't mean word-processing at an office either. Theo

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02003-02-19 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> > Typically the worst documentation comes from engineers. They may be the
> > most knowledgeable in a particular area but they take a lot of things for
> > granted. It's rare to receive instructions that work on the first try.
> > Typically something fails and it's because they forgot to add a step or two
> > or four.
>
> That's my experience, too, but Tony and Tushar say these guys are
> bad programmers, too. That's a delightful thought.

Kindly acknowledge that the subject has changed before going on. The
illusion that it hasn't changed arises from not knowing what topic
one is talking about, and the prime source of such a mistake of course
a penchant for perky and vague statements like "programmers are just
impatient with words" ...

There are several loosely related issues here, although many may only
be the result of a vague FEELING that there are "friendly" and "unfriendly"
ways of communicating--and a writer is supposed to be a translator from
the programmer's unfriendly and intimidating communication to a "product"'s
friendly documentation? Horse's ass. Giving this role to the writer is
an admission that you have illiterate geeks programming your software.
A writer's job should not be to "make sense" of what lazy programmers
mumble. Of course, in a world where 15 mumbling programmers dump on
one harried writer, there are more fundamental things to be corrected ...

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:44:51 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> This is not to say that there isn't crappy documentation out
> there. But I'm not responsible for all of it.

No one has accused you of bad writing or documentation.

alyce

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
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At 05:10 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
>>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>We have one here somewhere.
>
>I have one, plus we have a double sized one as well.

One what?

Betty

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Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 2:01:43 PM, scribble@POBOX.COM writes:

<< A "computer class" to understand idiotically written instructions ...
This is going to be a classic, K-R-N
 >>
ROFL!!!!!! Theo

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Karen Kay wrote:
(But I don't
> know whether I'm a visual, verbal, or auditory learner-

I need words, written down, that I can read, go back and look at again,
and again.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:50:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:39:08 PM, Betty Clark wrote:

> At 05:10 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
>>>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>>We have one here somewhere.
>>
>>I have one, plus we have a double sized one as well.

> One what?

Sleeping bag.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:51:22 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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02003-02-19 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Karen Kay wrote:
> > How do you do with the documentation that is all pictures and no
> > words?
>
> Terrible. Absolutely terrible. It must be something wrong with my brain,
> but the pictures do nothing for me. Nor Ken. Neither of us could do a
> VCR that had only pictures. It took four people to do m new HP
> printer--Ken, Richard from IBM, me, and Doug. DOug finally solved it;
> the rest of us had it working "sort of." I think that companies use
> pictures to save the cost of providing instructions in different
> languages, not to simplify things.

For someone who is familiar with a product, complex pictures which
will make sense to fresh eyes are of course far more difficult to
achieve than verbal descriptions which make sense to fresh ears.
However, since we daily get bullied by Reader's Digest fillers
such as "a picture is worth a thousand words" and it being the
universal language and what not, you might as well give up hope.
I don't know if I can think of anything much dumber than stark
unshaded crowded line drawings with incomprehensible visual cues.

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:51:34 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
> >     You can still get the small bottles.  And I've seen 8-ounce cans.
>
> I've only ever seen those on airplanes.

You should come look inside my storage closet.  I just went and checked
on the size of the cokes and saw that they are 8-oz cans.  Walmart sells
them here.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:54:09 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:44:16 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> Kindly acknowledge that the subject has changed before going on. The
> illusion that it hasn't changed arises from not knowing what topic
> one is talking about, and the prime source of such a mistake of course
> a penchant for perky and vague statements like "programmers are just
> impatient with words" ...

You wound me!!!! "Perky"????????????

> There are several loosely related issues here, although many may only
> be the result of a vague FEELING that there are "friendly" and "unfriendly"
> ways of communicating--and a writer is supposed to be a translator from
> the programmer's unfriendly and intimidating communication to a "product"'s
> friendly documentation? Horse's ass.

We are agreed.

> Giving this role to the writer is
> an admission that you have illiterate geeks programming your software.
> A writer's job should not be to "make sense" of what lazy programmers
> mumble. Of course, in a world where 15 mumbling programmers dump on
> one harried writer, there are more fundamental things to be corrected ...

Often the role of the writer is merely to consistentize (hi,
Alyce!) terminology and usage for a set of instructions.

Karen

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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02003-02-19 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I didn't used to be able to understand the pictures very well,
> but all of a sudden I somehow acquired the knack. (But I don't
> know whether I'm a visual, verbal, or auditory learner--I am
> pretty much equal across the the board.) The pictures are their
> own little language.

You acquired the "knack" of knowing what's reasonable to expect
in a family of gadgets. If that counts as learning the language
of pictures, so be it ... to me it's more like learning that
right-clicking might be a reasonable way to get at some "meta"
operations on this Windows desktop here ...

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Have you ever taken a computer class, Alyce? What makes you think
> that you can learn all of this stuff *without* a class?

Have most of us ever taken a computer class?  I strongly suspect the
answer is no.  You learn stuff by trial-and-error and AOTL (or in
Alyce's case there's also Doug to ask -- maybe Jeff also, but I remember
that Doug is a computer guru).

Speaking of Jeff and Doug, they're identical twins, right, but who as
adults have different appearances because of hair style, perhaps weight,
etc?  For some reason I was thinking about them today as I was walking
between my 8:00 and 9:00 classes and thinking about whether some of the
Germantown residents might be confused -- wondering why this person who
had been visiting you a month or so ago came back with  much
longer/shorter hair, more/less weight, has started/stopped wearing
glasses, whatever.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 05:38 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Elaine M Brennan wrote:
>At 08:00 AM 2/19/2003 -0800, Betty wrote:
>b
>
>>>Result:  I'm writing this from the train as we head into New York, and will
>>>mail it once we get back to DC.  Most of the trains heading in to Boston
>>>from DC today seemed to be running 1 to 2 hours late, but we started out
>>>only 20 minutes late heading south.  I suspect that we'll run in to
>>>whatever was causing those consistent delays once we get further south.
>>>
>>>--Elaine
>>
>>Elaine, where are you supposed to be living now?
>
>*I* am living in Arlington, VA.  most of my stuff is still in a storage
>locker in Denver, although it'll be making its way east eventually ...
>
>--Elaine

I had no idea.  I've never been to Virginia. Do you spend much time there
at all?

Betty

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:59:59 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:54:21 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> You acquired the "knack" of knowing what's reasonable to expect
> in a family of gadgets. If that counts as learning the language
> of pictures, so be it ... to me it's more like learning that
> right-clicking might be a reasonable way to get at some "meta"
> operations on this Windows desktop here ...

What is a family of gadgets?

In any case, I feel confident enough about my comprehension
abilities that I will claim that I can read any set of pictures
for anything, be it kitchen stuff, office stuff, or living room
stuff. Probably bedroom stuff, too.:)

Karen

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Did you read the news the other day about how supertasters are
> more liable to certain kinds of cancers? The reason is that many

What's a supertaster?  One who tastes the <details> more than most
people do?

This reminds me of a WLM at lunch today when some people were talking
about how shrimp in other parts of the country often tastes bland
because people apparently don't know how to cook it -- as in what you
put in with it when cooking it.  That led to a brief discussion about
bland food, with Pennsylvania and Indiana named as the blandest food
places the participants in this conversation had ever lived.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty Clark wrote:
>
> I'm starving.  I think I'll go pleasure myself.

Are you going to toss in some fingernails and toenails?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 04:50 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:39:08 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
>
> > At 05:10 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
> >>>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
> >>>We have one here somewhere.
> >>
> >>I have one, plus we have a double sized one as well.
>
> > One what?
>
>Sleeping bag.

Thanks. I finally figured it out after reading more.  We have three.

Betty

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: mews from Namibia
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02003-02-19 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> because I want lots of people to consider going.  There have now
> been two complete total coincidences related to Namibia for me.

Eeeeeent!

(I'd look at issues of Atlantic etc for articles on this--too bad
I don't get these magazines anymore. There must be a few about the
mind-blowing experience offered by NAMIBIA. What a damn fad ...)

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> You do??  I have a sleeping bag, but I would not consider that the norm
> in US society as a whole.

Nor would I. But we may be wrong. It seems that I may be the only
Wordsler who does not own one, and God knows I have at least one of
everything else ever invented.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:48:45 -0700
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

>That led to a brief discussion about

> bland food, with Pennsylvania and Indiana named as the blandest food
> places the participants in this conversation had ever lived.

    They never had my grandmother's goulash.  Or chili.

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 18:55:03 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:57:40 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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02003-02-19 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:54:21 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > You acquired the "knack" of knowing what's reasonable to expect
> > in a family of gadgets. If that counts as learning the language
> > of pictures, so be it ... to me it's more like learning that
> > right-clicking might be a reasonable way to get at some "meta"
> > operations on this Windows desktop here ...
>
> What is a family of gadgets?
>
> In any case, I feel confident enough about my comprehension
> abilities that I will claim that I can read any set of pictures
> for anything, be it kitchen stuff, office stuff, or living room
> stuff. Probably bedroom stuff, too.:)

That's not such a diverse family.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 19:26:41 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:15:08 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: WLM on Namibia
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
>
>   One of my train friends is from South Africa. I asked if he traveled in
> Namibia, he said that Namibia is wonderful, but expensive. He will be
> sending me some info and I will forward what I get to the list.

Hmm.  A student I've taught the past two semesters but not this semester
but who is still around was giving me travel advice on South Africa
(where she's from) not all that long ago.  I wasn't asking questions --
just said something vague about wanting to go there.  I can't remember
now what all she said.  But I can ask her.  I was talking to her just
today on the elevator.  She's a TA in our dept.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 19:26:42 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:12:58 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I still want to know what makes Alyce think she can learn
> all of this

All of this? All of what? I don't want to know the inner workings of a
computer. I want to know specifically what various messages that pop up
mean. I want to know how to do certain things with software that
supposedly does those things.

Here is a small aggravation from today. It has not stopped me from
removing what needed removing, but what is "biremove"? Why use a weird
word like this?

"Attached is a biremove in a WinZip file."

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 19:26:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:19:08 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I think most people have sleeping bags.

You do??  I have a sleeping bag, but I would not consider that the norm
in US society as a whole.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:18:29 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Often the role of the writer is merely to consistentize (hi,
> Alyce!) terminology and usage for a set of instructions.

Why do writers feel the need for such crap? My patience is wearing thin.
Fact: I do not think that (most) writers of instructions have any clue
about what they are supposed to be doing, i.e., shedding light on the
use of a product for the customer. It strikes me, the longer this
subject goes on, that writers are playing "Beat the Clock," or trying to
outdo each other with weird usages and made-up "words" instead.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 19:26:44 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:
> I know no one with a
> sleeping bag except maybe my born-again Colorado relatives, and I am not
> sure about them.

You do now.  You know me.  But, as I just said, I would never have
assumed it the norm.  Back in my serious camping days, we had serious
sleeping bags.  The one I have now is one that predated those serious
days -- it's cheap and would not be good in extreme cold.  I've used it
for things like sleeping under the diningroom table in my previous house
when all the beds and couches were full.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:

> >Have you tried green tea? It has caffeine, but it seems to be
> >easier to handle for a lot of people.
> Yeah, I like it. I am trying no caffeiene for a while to see if it matters.

You can find no-caffeine green tea.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:24:57 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: mews from Namibia
Message-ID: <20030219232457.GF18685@pobox.com>
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02003-02-19 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >Well I don't mind saying that the dumbness of words-l has amazed
> >me again. Think about it ... isn't there something a tiny bit
> >weird about everybody suddenly talking about freakin Namibia
> >as a grand exotic "little-visited" tourist destination?
>
> Are they? I don't care if it's freakin' Cancun, I'd just like to see it.

Maybe we could we stop privileging and start analyzing our
immediate gut impressions. Specifically, do they come from
some defined aesthetic principles, or are they just tawdry
old BOBO-trained instincts after all?

> >Without analyzing a thing I can say that every dumbass who visits
> >Namibia is increasing the corruption that exists.
>
> Obviously. Everybody knows that there's no corruption in places that
> have no tourism.
>
> >And it's quite likely that large numbers of people have no food,
> >no water and no doctor.
>
> And tourism is making that situation worse in what way?...

This is not a free service, "Janet".

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            <30505798509.20030217144319@WordWrite.com>
            <20030217215139.E9047@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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            <20030217230144.D9414@yoccoz.multinix.com>
            <64511301532.20030217161502@WordWrite.com>
            <3E51616E.42C44390@valstar.net>
            <151512235065.20030217163036@WordWrite.com>
            <5.2.0.9.0.20030219094801.00ad79c8@mail.attbi.com>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Speaking of Jeff and Doug, they're identical twins, right, but who as
> adults have different appearances because of hair style,

This is true. Doug, the Bohemian; Jeff, the straight-laced.

 thinking about whether some of the
> Germantown residents might be confused -- wondering why this person who
> had been visiting you a month or so ago came back with  much
> longer/shorter hair, more/less weight, has started/stopped wearing
> glasses, whatever.

Yes, I think it happens. It happens even when they are at home. Although
they really look totally different, people get confused and think
they've just talked to one or the other when it's the wrong one. They
are alike in height and weight--it's their dress, hair, and facial hair
that is different. They both have beards and mustaches from time to
time--I never know what to expect. But Doug has a pony tail and Jeff has
a businessman's haircut, and they dress differently--Doug in Jeans; Jeff
in office clothes.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:25:41 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A30921-2003Feb19.html

Disputed History Book to Be Reissued
By HILLEL ITALIE
The Associated Press
Wednesday, February 19, 2003; 2:55 PM

A disputed book about guns in the United States that was stripped of the
prestigious Bancroft Prize and discontinued by its original
publisher will be reissued this fall in a revised edition.

Michael Bellesiles' "Arming America," first published in 2000 by Alfred
A. Knopf, has been acquired by Soft Skull Press, which has a
history of taking on controversial books.

"We believe in allowing readers to evaluate for themselves," Soft Skull
publisher Richard Nash said in a recent statement.

"Arming America" challenges the idea that the United States has always
been a gun-oriented culture and that well-armed militias were
essential to the Revolutionary War. The book was praised by reviewers
and won the Bancroft Prize for history.

Many cited it as a devastating statement against America's alleged
historical love affair with firearms. But gun advocates quickly
attacked the book, and scholars and critics also became skeptical.

A report issued last fall by scholars from Harvard and Princeton
universities and the University of Chicago said Bellesiles' failure
to cite sources for crucial data "does move into the realm of
'falsification.'" It also suggested he omitted other researchers' data
that contradicted his arguments.

The Bancroft Prize has since been rescinded and Knopf announced last
month it would cease publishing the book. Bellesiles resigned
last year as a professor of history at Emory University.

Bellesiles' former editor, Jane Garrett, has said the author proposed
some revisions to Knopf, but the publisher found them to be
inadequate.

According to Soft Skull, the revised edition will include a new
introduction and "several clarifications" about the author's
research. Bellesiles, quoted in the Soft Skull press release, said that
the new material will reinforce the "logical structure of
this book."

Other releases by Soft Skull include "Fortunate Son," which first came
out in 1999 and claimed that George W. Bush had been arrested
in 1972 for cocaine possession. Bush, a presidential candidate at the
time, denied the allegations.

St. Martin's Press dropped the book soon after publication upon learning
that author James Howard Hatfield was convicted in 1988 for
attempted murder.

---

On the Net:

http://www.softskull.com


J. Godsey
14 Pleasant St.
Methuen, MA 01844
978-725-0073
gods@attbi.com

Selling books since 1980
Member of the IOBA - Independent Online Booksellers Association
Publisher of Sic, the Book Humor magazine
Distributors of "Book Deodorizer"

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:32:04 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
Message-ID: <20030219233204.GH18685@pobox.com>
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            <137670515750.20030219122837@WordWrite.com>
            <3E53CCC4.76B10CA2@valstar.net>
            <114671407422.20030219124328@WordWrite.com>
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02003-02-19 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Karen Kay wrote:
> > See, Alyce? I think 4 is uncommon, but I think 2 (one for
> > indoors/summer and one for colder weather) is not at all unusual.
>
> I am waiting to hear if Tushar has one.

Yes, I have one. I got it because I decided one day to throw
out the bed. I didn't follow through on that, but the sleeping
bag has been useful a couple of times, for drunk asses who had
to crash at my place. Other visitors bring their own sleeping
bags--basically I associate it with college and grad students,
especially from "developing" countries.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 19:26:48 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:43:36 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030219234336.GI18685@pobox.com>
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            <81686226451.20030219165027@WordWrite.com>
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02003-02-19 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
>
> Here is a small aggravation from today. It has not stopped me from
> removing what needed removing, but what is "biremove"? Why use a weird
> word like this?
>
> "Attached is a biremove in a WinZip file."

"biremove" is the name of the BlackICE "remove" program. "A biremove"
is a typical (and in my opinion, asinine) shortening of "a copy of the
biremove program". I hear people talking sloppy like this all day ...
and they refuse to accept that the sloppy talk may be incomprehensible.

By the way, this sloppiness is NOT an example of "engineers taking too
much for granted". It is an example of not taking the trouble to get
concepts right in your own head--thus, it is rude behavior.

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:43:11 -0500
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On Wednesday, February 19, 2003 at 18:08, Marie Ascher wrote:

> >>>We have one here somewhere.
> >>
> >>I have one, plus we have a double sized one as well.
> >
> >One what?
>
> Ass.

"And now for something completely different: ..."

Tony H.

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:44:18 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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02003-02-19 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > They won't--they only go by who fed what to whom.
>
> My apologies; I'm having a very bad day. I don't yell at Amy for scratching
> nor Happy for shedding.

Good for you!

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:47:53 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030219234753.GK18685@pobox.com>
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            <64510038977.20030217155400@WordWrite.com>
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02003-02-19 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:44:16 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > Kindly acknowledge that the subject has changed before going on. The
> > illusion that it hasn't changed arises from not knowing what topic
> > one is talking about, and the prime source of such a mistake of course
> > a penchant for perky and vague statements like "programmers are just
> > impatient with words" ...
>
> You wound me!!!! "Perky"????????????

It has the tone of a precocious little girl making a short, simple,
illuminating remark.

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 15:55:39 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: mews from Namibia
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> 02003-02-19 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > >Well I don't mind saying that the dumbness of words-l has amazed
> > >me again. Think about it ... isn't there something a tiny bit
> > >weird about everybody suddenly talking about freakin Namibia
> > >as a grand exotic "little-visited" tourist destination?
> >
> > Are they? I don't care if it's freakin' Cancun, I'd just like to see it.
>
> Maybe we could we stop privileging and start analyzing our
> immediate gut impressions. Specifically, do they come from
> some defined aesthetic principles, or are they just tawdry
> old BOBO-trained instincts after all?

Not aesthetics, really. I've wanted to go to Africa since I was a wee slip
of a thing, mostly because I wanted to see the animals. (And if you believe
that I was ever a wee slip of a thing, you'll believe anything.) None of the
important people in my life have ever wanted to go, plus I've never had the
dough, so it's been one of those "maybe someday..." kinds of things that
I've stuck into the back of my brain. But when I saw the photos it all came
back.

Janet

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 17:56:05 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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02003-02-19 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > Often the role of the writer is merely to consistentize (hi,
> > Alyce!) terminology and usage for a set of instructions.
>
> Why do writers feel the need for such crap? My patience is wearing thin.
> Fact: I do not think that (most) writers of instructions have any clue
> about what they are supposed to be doing, i.e., shedding light on the
> use of a product for the customer. It strikes me, the longer this
> subject goes on, that writers are playing "Beat the Clock," or trying
> to outdo each other with weird usages and made-up "words" instead.

Writers should be doing even more--namely, keeping programmers in
line. The ruling principle should be: if a non-programmer can't
clearly write out what a piece of software does, at every stage
in the development, it's bad software. (BTW, programmers learn
this fact in school. Maybe when they see the caste system in
the real world, they realize how good they have got it, and
that turns their heads. It's like, why not dump an unholy
mixed-up mess of good and bad, long and short lengths of
film, and let inferior uncreative "editors" paste it up.)

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 18:58:41 -0500
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Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
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On Wednesday, February 19, 2003 at 14:59, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-02-18 | Tony Harminc <tony@HARMINC.COM> writes:

> > I'm 100% with Tushar on this one, having seen oh-so-many examples
> > over the years.
>
> You know I only wrote this to suck up to you ...

Mais non - I insist: the sucking up is all mine!

Tony H.

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 16:57:54 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Michael Bellesiles' "Arming America," first published in 2000 by Alfred
> A. Knopf, has been acquired by

The aptly named

> Soft Skull Press,

> The Bancroft Prize has since been rescinded and Knopf announced last
> month it would cease publishing the book.

    And many libraries are either pulling their copies or reclassifying it
out of "non-fiction".

> Bellesiles resigned
> last year as a professor of history at Emory University.
>

    Makes it sound as if he jumped rather than was pushed.  Good Lord, what
more does it take - pounding a stake in his heart and burying him at a
crossroads during the dark of the moon?

JMW

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From: "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@noxiousweeds.net>
Organization: Noxious Weeds
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 13:58:40 -1000
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On 19 Feb 2003 at 18:28, alyce cresap wrote:

> It seems that I may be the only Wordsler who does not own one,...

Be assured, you are not.


    mem

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From: prbarfoo <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: RE: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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>===== Original Message From English Language Discussion Group
<WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> =====
>"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>> What's the big deal about sleeping bags ?  Pretty much everybody has
blankets I
>> assume - and they would function in just about the same way.
>>
>Homeland Security says sleeping bags, not blankets. GWTP.
>
>alyce

I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.

(please)

BrP

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > Wouldn't that be "noocular"?
>
> > Or is it just The Boss who says that?
>
> Mostly him. I hope to god!

Don't forget Jimmy Carter.  Wasn't he also one who said that?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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>===== Original Message From English Language Discussion Group
<WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU> =====
>"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>> >     You can still get the small bottles.  And I've seen 8-ounce cans.
>>
>> I've only ever seen those on airplanes.
>
>You should come look inside my storage closet.  I just went and checked
>on the size of the cokes and saw that they are 8-oz cans.  Walmart sells
>them here.
>
>--
> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Ah  I don't shop at Walmart.  (and I've never been in your storage closet)

BrP

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> See, Alyce? I think 4 is uncommon, but I think 2 (one for
> indoors/summer and one for colder weather) is not at all unusual.

And you think Words-L is representative of the country as a whole?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:

> What's the big deal about sleeping bags ?  Pretty much everybody has blankets I
> assume - and they would function in just about the same way.

I would agree that pretty much everybody has blankets.  I still disagree
that pretty much everybody has sleeping bags.  (All of these
"everybodys" are referring to USAers, of course, since that was the
context.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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steph wrote:
>
> Tushar Samant:
[etc]

> What is your problem?

When one has no hair to hold them in, brainwaves seep out into the
atmosphere.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:
>
> >I have one, plus we have a double sized one as well.
> >Marie
>
> Our two zip together to make a double.   But we only used them once, some
> 30 years ago.

Pretty much any of the same kind will zip together to make a double,
won't they?  We always did that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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>bonniev wrote:
> > We have sleeping bags.
>
>Put them in your kit.
>alyce

I don't need no stinkin' kit.  I'd rather die with the first wave than
barricade myself in just to die later.   In any case, I doubt the
terrorists would attack Coastal Maine in the off season.  Not enough body
count to impress anybody.  They'll wait until July 4th.


    --bonniev

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At 07:29 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, bonnie wrote:
>>bonniev wrote:
>> > We have sleeping bags.
>>
>>Put them in your kit.
>>alyce
>
>I don't need no stinkin' kit.  I'd rather die with the first wave than
>barricade myself in just to die later.   In any case, I doubt the
>terrorists would attack Coastal Maine in the off season.  Not enough body
>count to impress anybody.  They'll wait until July 4th.

Besides which, they'd probably suffocate in the snowbanks.

cwv

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>>*I* am living in Arlington, VA.  most of my stuff is still in a storage
>>locker in Denver, although it'll be making its way east eventually ...
>>--Elaine
>
>I had no idea.  I've never been to Virginia. Do you spend much time there
>at all?      --Betty

Arlington, VA is just another word for Washington, D.C.


    --bonniev

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At 07:38 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
>>>*I* am living in Arlington, VA.  most of my stuff is still in a storage
>>>locker in Denver, although it'll be making its way east eventually ...
>>>--Elaine
>>
>>I had no idea.  I've never been to Virginia. Do you spend much time there
>>at all?      --Betty
>
>Arlington, VA is just another word for Washington, D.C.

I've never been there either.

Betty

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:51:06 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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>> Sleeping bag.
>
> Thanks. I finally figured it out after reading more.  We have three.
>
> Betty

7 are in our stash.

Terry

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 19:27:00 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:17:33 -0500
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> gradual; the foreshortening of the photo accentuates the "cut."  As you
> look at the photo, the rocks just peeping through the snow on the right
> side of the photo are coping stones which mark the side of the carriage
> road; in the summertime, they extend 2-3 feet above the roadbed.

Thanks for the explanation, but I still don't like it!

--Adam
who should live on the prairie
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:21:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > You do??  I have a sleeping bag, but I would not consider that the norm
> > in US society as a whole.
>
> Nor would I. But we may be wrong. It seems that I may be the only
> Wordsler who does not own one, and God knows I have at least one of
> everything else ever invented.

Being the only Wordsler without one is quite another thing from being in
a minority of the whole population without one.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:23:54 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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prbarfoo wrote:

> >You should come look inside my storage closet.  I just went and checked
> >on the size of the cokes and saw that they are 8-oz cans.  Walmart sells
> >them here.

> Ah  I don't shop at Walmart.  (and I've never been in your storage closet)

You should come visit my storage closet.  It's a nice closet.  I don't
think that Wmart is the only place that sells these small cokes.  It's
just that that's where I shop and is where I bought the supply of them
for my mother.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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prbarfoo wrote:

> I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
>
> (please)

What's the latest on that front?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Espen's,
         Theo's,and Doris' Administrivia (was RE: Is this because of
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> Probably the erroring is due to bad architecting. Oh, please, stop the
> verbing.
>
> alyce

So sorry. I was absent-mindedly continuing the LISTSERV parlance used in the
daily emails I receive.

(Side note: I have an image of you as Susan Powter screaming, "Stop the
Insanity" and it makes me laugh.)

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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At 05:17 PM 2/19/2003 -0800, Betty wrote:

>At 07:38 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
>>>>*I* am living in Arlington, VA.  most of my stuff is still in a storage
>>>>locker in Denver, although it'll be making its way east eventually ...
>>>>--Elaine
>>>
>>>I had no idea.  I've never been to Virginia. Do you spend much time there
>>>at all?      --Betty
>>
>>Arlington, VA is just another word for Washington, D.C.
>
>I've never been there either.

once I'm finally settled, you and Larry are welcome to come make use of the
guest room!  i'm staying put about half the time these days.

--Elaine

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At 09:06 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Elaine M Brennan wrote:
>At 06:02 PM 2/19/2003 -0800, Betty wrote:
>
>
>>I was just thinking that it was about time we saw you on *this*
>>coast.  It's much warmer here.
>
>True 'nuf ... I was in San Jose for 5 days at the end of January, but I was
>busting my butt with work, and did almost nothing at all social (I don't
>count a dinner of hamburgers at Kirk's as "social").
>
>Maybe soon ...
>
>--ELaine

Give us advance warning and we'll prepare something "special" for you.

Betty

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:34:48 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 6:17:02 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I would agree that pretty much everybody has blankets.  I still disagree
> that pretty much everybody has sleeping bags.  (All of these
> "everybodys" are referring to USAers, of course, since that was the
> context.)

A lot of people use their sleeping bags as extra blankets. I
don't have any extra blankets.

Karen

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> > gradual; the foreshortening of the photo accentuates the "cut."  As you
> > look at the photo, the rocks just peeping through the snow on the right
> > side of the photo are coping stones which mark the side of the carriage
> > road; in the summertime, they extend 2-3 feet above the roadbed.
>
>Thanks for the explanation, but I still don't like it!
>--Adam

Tourists bicycle along that carriage road all summer long, towing their
infants in little carts or their youngsters in those add-on bikes.  The
carriage road around Eagle Lake is one of the flattest in the Park.


    --bonniev

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:38:13 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:47:53 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-02-19 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 4:44:16 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>> > Kindly acknowledge that the subject has changed before going on. The
>> > illusion that it hasn't changed arises from not knowing what topic
>> > one is talking about, and the prime source of such a mistake of course
>> > a penchant for perky and vague statements like "programmers are just
>> > impatient with words" ...
>>
>> You wound me!!!! "Perky"????????????

> It has the tone of a precocious little girl making a short, simple,
> illuminating remark.

Dear God!!!! Where are the razorblades?!

Karen

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At 08:38 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
> > It has the tone of a precocious little girl making a short, simple,
> > illuminating remark.
>
>Dear God!!!! Where are the razorblades?!

Perk up there, young'un

cwv

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:33:35 -0500
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Forgot to say that the plows took out my mailbox, and this time Kevin
could not fix it. He will try to do it this weekend. Meanwhile, today
the mail lady put my mail in the box, but the box is open and in the
snow, and the mail is all soaked and the pages of the New Yorker are
stuck together. Stupid woman.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:52:54 -0600
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 8:35:35 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I think far more people have sleeping bags than have been to
>> Europe.

> I am skeptical.  All adults I know in my ftf world have been to Europe.
> Plenty of them don't have sleeping bags.  But I guess I live in a mutant
> world.

Well, my world is just the opposite of yours.

Karen

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:54:52 -0500
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> > Something else - a fear of falling, I think.
>
> I guess that's the problem with being tall.:)
>
> Karen

Just one of the many. One gets used to it.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:26:46 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Here's what I mentioned earlier:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TRAVEL/DESTINATIONS/02/17/moscow.soul.ice.ap/index.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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> me.    Looks like you won't be hiking with us then, Adam.   That's a very
> flat easy hike compared to most in the Park.

::shudder:: I'm sure it's beautiful and all.

I have trouble at the mall where there's a glass railing at the edge of the
cutouts to the first floor. I have to hug the outer edge of the corridor.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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It is sooo annoying when a basketball game isn't on tv.  We're playing
an important game tonight (at Auburn), and it's not even on tv.
Listening to basketball on radio sux.  I'm glad I turned it on to find
out that we're ahead 23-11, but I don't think I can stick this out.  I'm
gonna turn it off.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, alyce cresap wrote:

>Nor would I. But we may be wrong. It seems that I may be the only
>Wordsler who does not own one, and God knows I have at least one of
>everything else ever invented.

I do not own a sleeping bag. I have not owned one for decades. I also do
not own one of everything else invented.

Bethany

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Bitch clothes
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:48:02 -0500
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> Please don't take it personally. If it is not the writers' fault, then I
> will move the blame to the owners of the companies who let poor
> instructions out.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

If the owners could get away with it, there'd be no documentation. It's just
an added expense.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:51:14 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
>  It is an example of not taking the trouble to get
> concepts right in your own head--thus, it is rude behavior.

Thank you for your support.

alyce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Book length - or IMFTATL
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:56:59 -0500
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> Probably 11 point is more common, but you could do 10 point to save
> pages.

I use 11 point Garamond for my books.

Speaking of which, Alyce, maybe I'll send you a copy once I get some from
the printer.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:55:22 -0500
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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:
>
> Be assured, you are not.

So, we are two.

alyce

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
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At 08:51 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, Elaine M Brennan wrote:
>At 05:17 PM 2/19/2003 -0800, Betty wrote:
>
>>At 07:38 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
>>>>>*I* am living in Arlington, VA.  most of my stuff is still in a storage
>>>>>locker in Denver, although it'll be making its way east eventually ...
>>>>>--Elaine
>>>>
>>>>I had no idea.  I've never been to Virginia. Do you spend much time there
>>>>at all?      --Betty
>>>
>>>Arlington, VA is just another word for Washington, D.C.
>>
>>I've never been there either.
>
>once I'm finally settled, you and Larry are welcome to come make use of the
>guest room!  i'm staying put about half the time these days.
>
>--Elaine

I was just thinking that it was about time we saw you on *this*
coast.  It's much warmer here.

Betty

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: dept of redundancy and poor writing
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:06:17 -0500
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> I don't. But I've probably had the issue come up more in the past
> 10 years than you have, and I've been surprised at how many
> people have sleeping bags.

I have two sleeping bags: the one I got as a gift when I was about 10, which
is now in my car <for emergencies>, and the one I bought last summer for
Falcon Ridge, which is comfy but too small. Auntie Val just slept in it
Saturday night when she was a last-minute drop-in guest.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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At 06:02 PM 2/19/2003 -0800, Betty wrote:


>I was just thinking that it was about time we saw you on *this*
>coast.  It's much warmer here.

True 'nuf ... I was in San Jose for 5 days at the end of January, but I was
busting my butt with work, and did almost nothing at all social (I don't
count a dinner of hamburgers at Kirk's as "social").

Maybe soon ...

--ELaine

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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            <3E542DBC.6A25C4@maynor.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:12:35 -0600
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> prbarfoo wrote:
>
> > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
> >
> > (please)

You naughty boy.  You must leave
immediately!

              - D. M.

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:17:51 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> > Probably 11 point is more common, but you could do 10 point to save
> > pages.
>
> I use 11 point Garamond for my books.
>
> Speaking of which, Alyce, maybe I'll send you a copy once I get some from
> the printer.

A great idea. Garamond is a  pretty font, one of my favorites.

alyce

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At 07:36 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>It is sooo annoying when a basketball game isn't on tv.  We're playing
>an important game tonight (at Auburn), and it's not even on tv.
>Listening to basketball on radio sux.  I'm glad I turned it on to find
>out that we're ahead 23-11, but I don't think I can stick this out.  I'm
>gonna turn it off.

Game tracker is sometimes fun.  Go to your men's BB web page and check it out.

Betty

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:19:08 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I think most people have sleeping bags.

> You do??  I have a sleeping bag, but I would not consider that the norm
> in US society as a whole.

I think far more people have sleeping bags than have been to
Europe.

Karen

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Skrev Tushar:

> Writers should be doing even more--namely, keeping programmers in
> line.

I just smacked two programmers around today. It felt good.

"Hey, did you want me to answer that email you sent with all the questions
in it?"

DUH.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:33:14 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty wrote:

> Game tracker is sometimes fun.  Go to your men's BB web page and check it out.

I don't see anything called game tracker:

http://www.mstateathletics.com/0,5604,0_25_0,00.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 6:14:57 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> See, Alyce? I think 4 is uncommon, but I think 2 (one for
>> indoors/summer and one for colder weather) is not at all unusual.

> And you think Words-L is representative of the country as a whole?

In some ways.

Karen

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Karen Kay wrote:

> I think far more people have sleeping bags than have been to
> Europe.

I am skeptical.  All adults I know in my ftf world have been to Europe.
Plenty of them don't have sleeping bags.  But I guess I live in a mutant
world.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:18:29 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Often the role of the writer is merely to consistentize (hi,
>> Alyce!) terminology and usage for a set of instructions.

> Why do writers feel the need for such crap?

I think that using words consistently is important.

> Fact: I do not think that (most) writers of instructions have any clue
> about what they are supposed to be doing, i.e., shedding light on the
> use of a product for the customer. It strikes me, the longer this
> subject goes on, that writers are playing "Beat the Clock," or trying to
> outdo each other with weird usages and made-up "words" instead.

Writers of computer documentation are definitely *always* playing
Beat the Clock.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:36:23 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Betty wrote:
>
> > Game tracker is sometimes fun.  Go to your men's BB web page and check it out.
>
> I don't see anything called game tracker:
>
> http://www.mstateathletics.com/0,5604,0_25_0,00.html

cnn.com is pretty good about keeping games in progress up to date, of
course.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:40:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:56:05 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> Writers should be doing even more--namely, keeping programmers in
> line.

Weren't you one of the people who castigated me for telling a
programmer not to fuck with me? I do consider this my job, but
it's sometimes hard to convince them.

> The ruling principle should be: if a non-programmer can't
> clearly write out what a piece of software does, at every stage
> in the development, it's bad software.

Yes, I agree.

I love you, Tushar.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:46:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Forgot to say that the plows took out my mailbox, and this time Kevin
> could not fix it. He will try to do it this weekend. Meanwhile, today
> the mail lady put my mail in the box, but the box is open and in the
> snow, and the mail is all soaked and the pages of the New Yorker are
> stuck together. Stupid woman.

Again this afternoon as I was walking Spencer, I thought of how much I
don't like the Germantown postpeople.  I think I mentioned before that I
thought of you not long ago as I saw the postman stop and get out of his
vehicle and take the mail to the door of an elderly man sort of across
the street from me.  This afternoon I saw the same scene, different
recipient.  People who can't get to their road-side mailboxes here get
their mail brought to the door by the postpeople.  The discrepancy
between here and there seems odd to me since we're talking about a
federal organization, not a local one.  But there obviously are regional
discrepancies.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 21:39:03 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:49:07 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 7:27:09 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> ::shudder:: I'm sure it's beautiful and all.

> I have trouble at the mall where there's a glass railing at the edge of the
> cutouts to the first floor. I have to hug the outer edge of the corridor.

I don't understand. Is this agoraphobia or acrophobia or
something else?

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:48:40 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I just turned on the radio again and learned that we're still over ten
ahead with just a little over a minute to go.  WHERE IS BRAD?
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 7:33:37 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:

>> Probably the erroring is due to bad architecting. Oh, please, stop the
>> verbing.
>>
>> alyce

> So sorry. I was absent-mindedly continuing the LISTSERV parlance used in the
> daily emails I receive.

> (Side note: I have an image of you as Susan Powter screaming, "Stop the
> Insanity" and it makes me laugh.)

LOL. There's an image.:)

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:50:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 7:48:02 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:

>> Please don't take it personally. If it is not the writers' fault, then I
>> will move the blame to the owners of the companies who let poor
>> instructions out.

> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH.

> If the owners could get away with it, there'd be no documentation. It's just
> an added expense.

They are getting away with it more and more.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

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> I don't understand. Is this agoraphobia or acrophobia or
> something else?

Something else - a fear of falling, I think.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Subject: Re: Basketball
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At 08:33 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Betty wrote:
>
> > Game tracker is sometimes fun.  Go to your men's BB web page and check
> it out.
>
>I don't see anything called game tracker:
>
>http://www.mstateathletics.com/0,5604,0_25_0,00.html

Click on live, audio, statistics.

Betty

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:54:06 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: report from NYC
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 8:51:45 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
>> I don't understand. Is this agoraphobia or acrophobia or
>> something else?

> Something else - a fear of falling, I think.

I guess that's the problem with being tall.:)

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:55:37 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:12:58 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> "Attached is a biremove in a WinZip file."

I wouldn't have understood this either.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 20:55:22 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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63-46, final score.

What's good is that it was a road game and was against a team that
through flukiness had been #1 in the SEC-West for a while.

Re tracking games online, I checked cnn.com a couple of times near the
end of the game and was impressed at how up-to-date their scores are.
When it was like a minute and twenty seconds in the radio game, cnn.com
had the score as of something like a minute and forty seconds.  Iow, the
cnn.com scoreboard is updated quite quickly.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty wrote:

> Click on live, audio, statistics.

Well, isn't that cute!  I just tried it.  Had to turn on my speakers to
make it work.  Normally my speakers aren't on.  And I heard our coach
talking to somebody post-game.  I should try that again sometime
mid-game.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:14:02 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>>
>> Thanks for the explanation, but I still don't like it!
>> --Adam
>
> Tourists bicycle along that carriage road all summer long, towing their
> infants in little carts or their youngsters in those add-on bikes.  The
> carriage road around Eagle Lake is one of the flattest in the Park.
>
>
>     --bonniev

I know how you feel about heights, Adam, I'm a bit of a rail hugger myself.
I have however biked the trails in Arcadia without a problem.  Some of the
views are spectacular.  The most uneasy time I had was climbing the fire
tower.

Terry

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 19 21:39:11 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:20:02 -0500
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> I know how you feel about heights, Adam, I'm a bit of a rail
> hugger myself.

The waist-high rail didn't do much to make me feel better. I suspect if it
were higher, I'd have less of a problem.

> I have however biked the trails in Arcadia without a problem.  Some of the
> views are spectacular.  The most uneasy time I had was climbing the fire
> tower.

HAHAHAH. Fire towers are for looking up at, not climbing!

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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> > I don't understand. Is this agoraphobia or acrophobia or
> > something else?
>
>Something else - a fear of falling, I think.
>--Adam

It's a classic fear of the edge.   Lots of people have it.   I am surprised
that most of our visiting friends exhibit this fear when we take them
hiking.   Only a few have no fear at all.


    --bonniev

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>I know how you feel about heights, Adam, I'm a bit of a rail hugger myself.
>I have however biked the trails in Arcadia without a problem.  Some of the
>views are spectacular.  The most uneasy time I had was climbing the fire
>tower.      --Terry

No R, Terry.   It is Acadia.   There is only one fire tower on the
island.   I've never climbed it or even climbed up to it.  Must do that
sometime.


    --bonniev

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:31:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 9:14:02 PM, Terry Wild wrote:
>>> Thanks for the explanation, but I still don't like it!
>>> --Adam
>>
>> Tourists bicycle along that carriage road all summer long, towing their
>> infants in little carts or their youngsters in those add-on bikes.  The
>> carriage road around Eagle Lake is one of the flattest in the Park.
>>
>>
>>     --bonniev

> I know how you feel about heights, Adam, I'm a bit of a rail hugger myself.

I am a total height wimp, but these photots did nothing for me.
But Adam's fear of falling makes sense w/ his bridge phobia.

> I have however biked the trails in Arcadia without a problem.  Some of the
> views are spectacular.  The most uneasy time I had was climbing the fire
> tower.

But you could do it! I don't think I could do it.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 23:17:57 EST
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 7:55:33 PM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< > "Attached is a biremove in a WinZip file."

I wouldn't have understood this either.
 >>
I don't have to understand this language fortunately because I'm on a MAC.
BTW, you knew of course that the MAC has had windows from the beginning ;-)

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At 09:54 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>02003-02-19 | Betty <bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> > At 09:43 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > >02003-02-19 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
> > >> > prbarfoo wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
> > >> > >
> > >> > > (please)
> > >>
> > >> You naughty boy.  You must leave
> > >> immediately!
> > >
> > >I think the complex tone of this post summarizes D. M. completely.
> > >
> > >Discuss
> >
> > Aren't we done picking on Doris yet?
> >
> > Let's discuss you.  How often do you have to shave your head?  Do you smear
> > shaving cream on it and use a straight edge or do you use mechanical
> > implements of torture?
>
>You know, not picking on somebody doesn't have to mean picking on
>somebody else. Take your pickin' fingers elsewhere ...


Just answer the questions and then I'll go to bed.

Betty

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:33:59 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 10:29:51 PM, Theodora Groothof wrote:

> In a message dated 2/19/2003 11:25:10 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

> << inserts in the next Yellow
Pages, >>>

> That part really got to me too. I just wondered who's gonna be left to deliver
> those new phonebooks! Theo

Unemployed tech workers.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 06:05:38 2003
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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:43:58 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-19 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
> > prbarfoo wrote:
> >
> > > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
> > >
> > > (please)
>
> You naughty boy.  You must leave
> immediately!

I think the complex tone of this post summarizes D. M. completely.

Discuss

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In a message dated 2/19/2003 3:50:20 PM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< Aren't you the one who can't even manage to set mail on your own?

Beg your pardon? Theo

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:47:34 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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> No R, Terry.   It is Acadia.   There is only one fire tower on the
> island.   I've never climbed it or even climbed up to it.  Must do that
> sometime.
>
>
>     --bonniev

Of course, it is that stray Rhode Island R.  I must have recently dropped
the R in some other word and needed to balance the books before retiring
tonight.  Also, we have an Arcadia Management Area here and I lost track of
where I was.

Terry

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At 09:43 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>02003-02-19 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
> > > prbarfoo wrote:
> > >
> > > > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
> > > >
> > > > (please)
> >
> > You naughty boy.  You must leave
> > immediately!
>
>I think the complex tone of this post summarizes D. M. completely.
>
>Discuss

Aren't we done picking on Doris yet?

Let's discuss you.  How often do you have to shave your head?  Do you smear
shaving cream on it and use a straight edge or do you use mechanical
implements of torture?

Betty

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:52:06 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>> I have however biked the trails in Arcadia without a problem.  Some of
>> the views are spectacular.  The most uneasy time I had was climbing the
>> fire tower.
>
> But you could do it! I don't think I could do it.
>
> Karen

My fear seems to be greatly heightened the lower my blood sugar gets.  I
bring snacks, take lots of deep breaths and firmly plant my feet.  You
should have seen me on Whiteface mountain in NY with those offspring of
mine just behaving like they were on flat ground!  Took lots of breaths and
hung on tight, I did!

Terry

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:54:44 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
Message-ID: <20030220035444.GB4414@pobox.com>
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02003-02-19 | Betty <bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> At 09:43 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >02003-02-19 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
> >> > prbarfoo wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
> >> > >
> >> > > (please)
> >>
> >> You naughty boy.  You must leave
> >> immediately!
> >
> >I think the complex tone of this post summarizes D. M. completely.
> >
> >Discuss
>
> Aren't we done picking on Doris yet?
>
> Let's discuss you.  How often do you have to shave your head?  Do you smear
> shaving cream on it and use a straight edge or do you use mechanical
> implements of torture?

You know, not picking on somebody doesn't have to mean picking on
somebody else. Take your pickin' fingers elsewhere ...

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:58:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 9:42:07 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-02-19 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:56:05 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>> > Writers should be doing even more--namely, keeping programmers in
>> > line.
>>
>> Weren't you one of the people who castigated me for telling a
>> programmer not to fuck with me? I do consider this my job, but
>> it's sometimes hard to convince them.

> "Keeping them in line" has a precise meaning here. Not any
> bizarre thing you think of which might discomfit them ... puh!

Puh! Yourself. I know I can keep YOU in line.

Karen

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 22:12:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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http://www.site59.com  'Last minute weekend getaways'

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

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In a message dated 2/19/2003 11:25:10 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< inserts in the next Yellow
Pages, >>

That part really got to me too. I just wondered who's gonna be left to deliver
those new phonebooks! Theo

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In a message dated 2/19/2003 11:56:06 AM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< How would you know who has sleeping bags?! I bet Riley's family
does. Maybe not one for everyone, though, but a couple. People
use them for sleepovers.
 >>

I for one don't have one. Theo

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In a message dated 2/19/2003 1:53:13 PM, bonniev@PANAX.COM writes:

<< We have sleeping bags. >>

I don't, and as far as I know neither have my 3 daughters.
Theo

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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:11:28 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Book length - or IMFTATL
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>Adam Hartfield wrote:
>>
>>  > Probably 11 point is more common, but you could do 10 point to save
>>  > pages.
>>
>>  I use 11 point Garamond for my books.
>>
>>  Speaking of which, Alyce, maybe I'll send you a copy once I get some from
>  > the printer.
>
>A great idea. Garamond is a  pretty font, one of my favorites.

Garamond at 90% width is the standard Greenery font as well. (Not for
books, which I design according to my mood and the content, but for
our marketing materials.)

Janet

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 09:14:10 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: mews from Namibia
Message-ID: <20030220091410.A17304@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-02-19 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
= > because I want lots of people to consider going.  There have now
= > been two complete total coincidences related to Namibia for me.
=
= Eeeeeent!
=
= (I'd look at issues of Atlantic etc for articles on this--too bad
= I don't get these magazines anymore. There must be a few about the
= mind-blowing experience offered by NAMIBIA. What a damn fad ...)

Well, I don't read the Atlantic.  I don't know anything about
mind blowing experiences; I would prefer not to have my mind
blown, actually.

Look.  We're going to go.  We're going to go somewhere.  If we're
lucky the political situation in Namibia will not degenerate into
one like Zimbabwe.  Where would you rather we go?  Just which
country meets your unstated criteria that we not go to some fad
country.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 06:05:41 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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>Joanne Jemison wrote:
> > Just what kind of
> > group is this anyway.

>Now that is not an easy question.  I think it might be unanswerable.

Nah, this is your average old fart list. Easy.

Welcome.

-rashmi





_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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From: "Espen S. Ore" <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
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08:18 19.02.2003 -0800 skrev Betty Clark:
>I thought we were going to see twins after your visit.

Photos will be scanned on Monday.

Espen

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Thank you all for much information!

Espen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:52:12 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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        Those phonebooks mean we get our bonus, sistah!  I don't care
if nobody ever opens them again; it's all about the bottom line.

Theodora Groothof wrote:

> In a message dated 2/19/2003 11:25:10 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:
>
> << inserts in the next Yellow
> Pages, >>
>
> That part really got to me too. I just wondered who's gonna be left to deliver
> those new phonebooks! Theo
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Wed, 19 Feb 2003 21:42:07 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
Message-ID: <20030220034207.GA3968@pobox.com>
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02003-02-19 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:56:05 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > Writers should be doing even more--namely, keeping programmers in
> > line.
>
> Weren't you one of the people who castigated me for telling a
> programmer not to fuck with me? I do consider this my job, but
> it's sometimes hard to convince them.

"Keeping them in line" has a precise meaning here. Not any
bizarre thing you think of which might discomfit them ... puh!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 07:09:03 2003
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Look.  We're going to go.  We're going to go somewhere.  If we're
>lucky the political situation in Namibia will not degenerate into
>one like Zimbabwe.  Where would you rather we go?  Just which
>country meets your unstated criteria that we not go to some fad
>country.

Come to Maine.   The fad is long over.


    --bonniev

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 05:54:28 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: sometimes a sentence...
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        Nah, I'm finishing up Dickens... he waxes pretty colorful on
the subject.  It is fun reading the passages about heads
being hewn off to the kids though.  The little darlings
always look shocked and slightly disgusted.

Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

> ...just jumps out at you.
>
>
>>From Memoirs of Napoleon Bonaparte:
>
> The airs and the words that had made Paris tremble to her very centre during the
> Reign of Terror--the "Marseillaise," the "Carmagnole," the "Jour du depart," the
> execrable ditty, the burden of which is, "And with the entrails of the last of the
> priests let us strangle the last of the kings," were all roared out in fearful chorus
> by a drunken, filthy, and furious mob.
>
>
>
> BrP
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 07:09:09 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 07:47:36 -0500
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> prbarfoo wrote:
>
> > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
> >
> > (please)
>
> What's the latest on that front?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

No news.  If there were any major developments I would certainly report them here.
Steve may be coming here for the summer or part of it - other than that, it's still trips
to Toronto for me.

BrP

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How can we have 104% humidity?     http://www.hazecam.net/acadia.html

I guess the atmosphere is supercharged with melting snow.  We are up to 36
degrees at 9:30 a.m.

    --bonniev

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Wednesday, February 19, 2003 at 18:56, prbarfoo wrote:

> I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.

They should've kept Zundel and sent you!

Tony H.

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>No news.  If there were any major developments I would certainly report
>them here.
>Steve may be coming here for the summer or part of it - other than that,
>it's still trips
>to Toronto for me.    --BrP

Will we all get to meet Steve at Acadiafest?


    --bonniev

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> >No news.  If there were any major developments I would certainly report
> >them here.
> >Steve may be coming here for the summer or part of it - other than that,
> >it's still trips
> >to Toronto for me.    --BrP
>
> Will we all get to meet Steve at Acadiafest?

>     --bonniev

It's possible but not likely.  The distance is a bit beyond the range of his ability to sit
without doing more damage to his back.

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 09:59:04 2003
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 09:51 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, adam wrote:
> > I don't understand. Is this agoraphobia or acrophobia or
> > something else?
>
>Something else - a fear of falling, I think.

Or, as Bonnie said, a fear of the edge (which may amount to the same
thing).  I have some of that---especially where there is a substantial drop
and no railing.  I remember getting into a discussion with a family at
breakfast at the Opera House.  The wife and children were looking for
interesting trails to hike, the husband wanted nothing to do with anything
narrower than the carriage roads.

Definitely, though, you would not enjoy Beech Cliffs.

cwv

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:52:01 -0500
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>From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM>
>At 09:51 PM 2/19/2003 -0500, adam wrote:
>> > I don't understand. Is this agoraphobia or acrophobia or
>> > something else?
>>
>>Something else - a fear of falling, I think.
>
>Or, as Bonnie said, a fear of the edge (which may amount to the same
>thing).  I have some of that---especially where there is a substantial drop

Let's not forget that *ic* actually did fall off a cliff in Acadia.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:59:01 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: mews from Namibia
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bonniev:
= Look.  We're going to go.  We're going to go somewhere.  If we're
= >lucky the political situation in Namibia will not degenerate into
= >one like Zimbabwe.  Where would you rather we go?  Just which
= >country meets your unstated criteria that we not go to some fad
= >country.
=
= Come to Maine.   The fad is long over.
=

Maine is so this year.  We're talking about next year.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:00:06 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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=
= Let's not forget that *ic* actually did fall off a cliff in Acadia.
=
= Marie

Oo!  Now you've done it.  This is one of those situations you're
supposed to keep quiet about.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 09:59:07 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Let's not forget that *ic* actually did fall off a cliff in Acadia.
>Marie

And got less than adequate care at the local hospital.   People have died
falling off the cliffs of Acadia.   But Adam, worry not, you can sit around
our house and keep me company.  I intend to man the homestead while others
hike.


    --bonniev

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 08:38:50 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: It *is* cheaper to go to Europe
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http://www.smarter-living.com/


Karen

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:35:03 -0500
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> On Wednesday, February 19, 2003 at 18:56, prbarfoo wrote:
>
> > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
>
> They should've kept Zundel and sent you!
>
> Tony H.

{{{{shudder}}}}   at even being mentioned in the same sentence


BrP

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:45:19 -0500
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> On Thursday, February 20, 2003 at 10:35, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>
> > > > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
> > >
> > > They should've kept Zundel and sent you!
>
> > {{{{shudder}}}}   at even being mentioned in the same sentence
>
> Sorry... Just that he's here (and no one wants him to be), and you're
> there wanting to be here. Bah...
>
> Tony H.

I'm not really insulted because I understood how you meant it, but the guy is such a
major loonie (and not the good kind you can spend) that even hearing his name makes
my skin crawl.  I hope there's a <special room> in hell....


BrP

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:48:36 -0500
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>This reminds me of a WLM at lunch today when some people were talking
>about how shrimp in other parts of the country often tastes bland
>because people apparently don't know how to cook it -- as in what you
>put in with it when cooking it.  That led to a brief discussion about
>bland food, with Pennsylvania and Indiana named as the blandest food
>places the participants in this conversation had ever lived.
>
>--
> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>

Indiana, I might believe. Pennsylvania is full of taste.



alec


------------
Alec D. Plotkin-IT Support Specialist
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/
University of Pennsylvania
''If we make peaceful revolution impossible, we make violent revolution
inevitable.'' - John F. Kennedy

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Thursday, February 20, 2003 at 10:35, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

> > > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
> >
> > They should've kept Zundel and sent you!

> {{{{shudder}}}}   at even being mentioned in the same sentence

Sorry... Just that he's here (and no one wants him to be), and you're
there wanting to be here. Bah...

Tony H.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:50:04 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

 But there obviously are regional
> discrepancies.

It is more like individual discrepancies. A couple of the carriers have
brought mail to me when it was too big to fit in the box, while others
park by the box, honk their horn, and drive on if I don't appear and
come running. I think it depends upon what kind of day they're having. I
can appreciate that on a terrible snowy day, the life of a rural carrier
is difficult. I just wish she had kept the mail dry, even if I would
have had to wait a day or two for it. Now they are holding the mail till
Monday, unless I happen to get to the p.o. before that.

alyce

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Subject: Re: Bellesiles rises again
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On Wed, 19 Feb 2003, John Williams wrote:

> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > Michael Bellesiles' "Arming America," first published in 2000 by Alfred
> > A. Knopf, has been acquired by
>
> The aptly named
>
> > Soft Skull Press,
>
> > The Bancroft Prize has since been rescinded and Knopf announced last
> > month it would cease publishing the book.
>
>     And many libraries are either pulling their copies or reclassifying it
> out of "non-fiction".
>
> > Bellesiles resigned
> > last year as a professor of history at Emory University.
> >
>
>     Makes it sound as if he jumped rather than was pushed.  Good Lord, what
> more does it take - pounding a stake in his heart and burying him at a
> burying him at a crossroads during the dark of the moon?

Doesn't the formula call for a _full_ moon?

And isn't "dark of the moon" like "the shadow of the
goal line"?

--
Richard 10:13          #19, top, neutral ground side

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:01:52 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:12:58 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > "Attached is a biremove in a WinZip file."
>
> I wouldn't have understood this either.

Have you considered taking a class?

alyce

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:06:49 -0500
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> Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:12:58 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > > "Attached is a biremove in a WinZip file."
> >
> > I wouldn't have understood this either.
>
> Have you considered taking a class?
>
> alyce

Karen,

 I think alyce might be our Evil Triplet.


BrP


Paul R. Barfoot
Special Collections
Syracuse University Library

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 06:50 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, Tony Harminc wrote:
>It does seem to be a US thing. Very few places here serve those huge
>portions - I never fail to be surprised and repulsed when on trips to
>the US. I think the drinks are the worst - it's quite impossible to
>find a small coffee or Coke. The US "small" is about a Canadian
>medium to large.
>
>How did it start? Is it like peacocks' tails?
>
>Tony H.

When I was in Spain last year I was served huge portions. A fellow
tour-mate reported seeing the Spaniards order lots of different things from
the menu, barely make a dent in what they were served, leaving the rest to
be cleared away.

This observation was made at some of the outdoor cafes we went to. I'm not
sure if they were serving American sized portions or if that was the norm.
All I know is, I can't eat what I'm served here and I couldn't eat what I
was served there.

One horrifying aspect of Spain was the fact every dish I ordered came
served in what looked like durablend motor oil. They called it olive oil
but I'm pretty sure I could have used the stuff in my car.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:16:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 10:01:52 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:12:58 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
>> > "Attached is a biremove in a WinZip file."
>>
>> I wouldn't have understood this either.

> Have you considered taking a class?

Because I don't understand the messages that you get on your
machine???? No, such a thought would never occur to me. I do
understand messages on my machine, or I talk to someone who might
know.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:17:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 10:06:49 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

>> Karen Kay wrote:
>> >
>> > Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 5:12:58 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
>> > > "Attached is a biremove in a WinZip file."
>> >
>> > I wouldn't have understood this either.
>>
>> Have you considered taking a class?
>>
>> alyce

> Karen,

>  I think alyce might be our Evil Triplet.

The thought has crossed my mind on more than one occasion. I
think we should visit her.:)

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:19:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 9:07:08 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> This observation was made at some of the outdoor cafes we went to. I'm not
> sure if they were serving American sized portions or if that was the norm.
> All I know is, I can't eat what I'm served here and I couldn't eat what I
> was served there.

But at least here you can take the rest home.

> One horrifying aspect of Spain was the fact every dish I ordered came
> served in what looked like durablend motor oil. They called it olive oil
> but I'm pretty sure I could have used the stuff in my car.

It's good for you!

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:31:05 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Lee <flint@kiva.net>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Librarian babes
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http://www.boxjamsdoodle.com/d/20010214.html

--
Take care,
Tom Lee (flint@kiva.net)
At times this cartoon makes me suspect that it's about me

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 10:44:04 2003
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>http://www.boxjamsdoodle.com/d/20010214.html
>Tom Lee

Cute cartoon.   Which reminds me of one of our own librarian babes, Ann
Borkin.   Ann, nunzilla is now sitting on the desk of a woman in
Milwaukee.  She works for the company that is producing the music scores
for the movie Chicago.  She is the one putting the notes onto the paper
with a computer program.


    --bonniev

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:12:59 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 9:50:04 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> It is more like individual discrepancies. A couple of the carriers have
> brought mail to me when it was too big to fit in the box, while others
> park by the box, honk their horn, and drive on if I don't appear and
> come running.

I've had the same mail carrier since I moved in here. She'll stop
and drop a package off if I'm out in front, but otherwise, she
doesn't even try, just leaves a notice that I should pick it up
at the post office. Grrr. But one day when I was getting my mail,
she was trying to start her mail truck with no success and I
expressed sympathy with her. So now, she drops pkgs. by my house
instead of making me go to the P.O.

I'm not suggesting that you haven't sucked up enough to your mail
carrier, just supporting your comment that individuals have a lot
of discretion. My sucking up was inadvertent. (It would make me
crazy if I didn't have adequate equipment to perform my job.)

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:29:27 -0500
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This is sort of long, but it is about the rally permit in NYC and I
thought Carolyn would be interested. I don't know her address to sent it
privately.
alyce


Published on Tuesday, February 18, 2003 by the Long Island,
NY Newsday
Is the Right To March A Security Issue?
by Bruce Ackerman

This is a dark time for constitutional liberty, but the fate
of Saturday's peace demonstration in New York deserves a
footnote in tomorrow's history books. The demonstrators
proposed a march past the United Nations to Central Park to
support the role of the UN inspectors in Iraq and to
denounce the prospect of unilateral warfare. But Mayor
Michael Bloomberg, citing security concerns, said no.

The most the mayor would allow was a rally at the plaza in
front of the UN for 10,000 participants. The overflow was
herded into "pens" that the police constructed for miles
down the center of First Avenue. Once a demonstrator entered
his assigned pen, he wasn't allowed to fraternize with
people in other pens. While others marched with dignity
throughout the world, hundreds of thousands of New Yorkers
were kept behind barricades.

This policy was nothing new. The Bloomberg administration
has banned all protest marches in Manhattan since September
2002. Nevertheless, the federal courts upheld the city,
enabling it to maintain its hardline position.

For all his sound and fury during eight years in office,
former Mayor Rudolph Giuliani never imposed such a sweeping
prohibition. Suddenly, the only people who can march are
innocuous folk, engaged in ethnic celebration.  The city has
granted a permit for 120,000 marchers to strut their stuff
at the St. Patrick's Day parade. Only the UN protesters and
their ilk are left to freeze in their pens.

As someone who made his fortune creating a media company,
Bloomberg certainly knows that the First Amendment doesn't
protect only marchers on St. Patrick's Day. The Constitution
is especially concerned with the threat of political
suppression. During the 1960s, federal judges were tireless
in striking down the countless pretexts used by Southern
cities to suppress civil rights marches against
segregation.

But the federal courts failed to rise to the occasion this
time around. When the march organizers went to court,
federal judges rubber-stamped the pretexts advanced by the
Bloomberg administration. The city emphasized that the St.
Patrick's Day organizers work with the police in advance to
assure against security risks. In contrast, the peace
organizers could not say for sure how large their parade
would be. Given this uncertainty, the courts upheld the
city's decision to ban the march as a reasonable safeguard
against violence.

Of course, political protesters never can control the timing
of national crises - and yet their right to march has been a
central part of the First Amendment tradition. The city
offered no evidence of any clear and present danger to
public safety, and the Saturday demonstration occurred
without significant incident. If the bare risk of disorder
suffices for suppression, we have come to the end of the
road.

Hoping to narrow the sweeping force of her opinion last
week, U.S. District Court Judge Barbara Jones pointed to the
fact that "the nation and the city are currently at the
second highest security alert." This makes the decision
worse, not better. We are only at the beginning of an
endless war against terrorism. Are fundamental political
rights to be contingent on FBI decisions to change the alert
from yellow to orange? Such a power can be blatantly abused
for partisan ends. Nevertheless, the court of appeals
affirmed Jones' decision, and time ran out before the full
U.S. Supreme Court could give serious consideration to the
matter.  So the marchers were kept in their pens, creating a
precedent that will haunt us in the future.

This is not the first time the lower courts have crumpled in
the defense of civil liberties after Sept. 11. Most
notoriously, they have upheld the president's power to
detain U.S. citizens indefinitely without trial by declaring
them "enemy combatants." As these precedents mount, it is
time for all of us to reconsider the grim constitutional
order we are so hastily creating.

Perhaps it is a good thing that the Supreme Court hasn't
allowed itself to enter the fray too quickly. A pause will
allow it to appreciate the high stakes involved. But in the
meantime, events in New York should caution us about the
frightening ease with which our most precious liberties can
disappear.

Bruce Ackerman, professor of law and political science at
Yale, is author of "We the People."

               Copyright © 2003, Newsday, Inc.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 10:55:32 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:41:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> I'm not suggesting that you haven't sucked up enough to your mail
> carrier, just supporting your comment that individuals have a lot
> of discretion.

You are correct. ALso, I have sucked. Every Xmas I give them $50 and a
big plate or package of cookies and stuff. This has paid off for me many
times. Like if I get big packages at my po box, they carry them to the
car, etc.
I attribute the problem here to the fact that the route is long and
tiring--she leaves the po about 8:30 and doesn't even get to me (last
stop) till 4 or later. So, especially in bad weather, I can see that she
wouldn't be wanting to give special service. I just wish she had taken
yesterday's mail back with her instead of leaving it in the snow.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 12:02:33 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:43:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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But I really liked it when Pres. Bartlett said that there are
women standing in front of tanks and that we would get their
back.

I think Shrublet needs to hire some electric teevee writers.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 12:02:34 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:45:31 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
  She works for the company that is producing the music scores
> for the movie Chicago.

They made the movie before having scores? Please explain.

alyce

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From: Natalie Maynor <maynor@ra.msstate.edu>
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Is a single inhabitant of Roti called a Roti?  Iow, is
my wording ok in the following question?  "Assuming that
they shared a language, how might a conversation between
a Dane and a Roti be problematic?"
   --Natalie Maynor (maynor@ra.msstate.edu)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 12:02:35 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:03:16 -0700
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>
> Doesn't the formula call for a _full_ moon?

>
> Richard 10:13          #19, top, neutral ground side

    Y'know, I wondered about that.  (But not really all that much.)  I finally
decided that full moonlight just didn't seem <right> somehow.

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 12:02:36 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 11:00:50 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 10:46:34 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Is a single inhabitant of Roti called a Roti?  Iow, is
> my wording ok in the following question?  "Assuming that
> they shared a language, how might a conversation between
> a Dane and a Roti be problematic?"

Dunno, but the plural *has* to be Rotini...

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 12:02:36 2003
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Subject: Re: Librarian babes
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At 11:45 AM 2/20/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:

>They made the movie before having scores? Please explain.

It probably would have been better to say "scores <from> the movie
Chicago.  This company publishes music scores (sheet music) to be sold
commercially.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 12:02:37 2003
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>I finally decided that full moonlight just didn't seem <right> somehow.

Indeed.  It seems I was grievously misinformed.


"In some Slavonic countries it is thought that a vampire,
if prowling out of his tomb at night, may be shot and
killed with a silver bullet that has been blessed by a
priest. But care must be taken that his body is not
laid in the rays of the moon, especially if the moon
be at her full, for in this case he will revive with
redoubled vigour and malevolence."

http://www.unicorngarden.com/vamp3.htm

--
Richard 10:13          #19, top, neutral ground side

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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
> "In some Slavonic countries it is thought that a vampire,
> if prowling out of his tomb at night, may be shot and
> killed with a silver bullet that has been blessed by a
> priest. But care must be taken that his body is not
> laid in the rays of the moon, especially if the moon
> be at her full, for in this case he will revive with
> redoubled vigour and malevolence."

This goes against everything I was ever taught by Bela Lugosi and Lon
Chaney. I thought that silver bullets are for werewolves and stakes in
the heart are for vampires. And, given that vampires cannot stand light,
it makes no sense that being in the full moon would renew their vigor.

However, that URL is interesting reading--about the ancient traditions
surviving. There is a good book about that--Lawton, Modern Greek
Folklore and Ancient Green Religion. I had a copy, but sold it. Another
good one is Collison-Morley, Greek and Roman Ghost Stories, which has
vampires and other creeps in it, which I still have.

alyce

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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Librarian babes
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>bonniev wrote:
>   She works for the company that is producing the music scores
> > for the movie Chicago.
>
>They made the movie before having scores? Please explain.
>alyce

I can't explain it.   I only know that now, after the movie is out, they
are producing the sheet music.


    --bonniev

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:57:43 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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If the note you just sent about scores is important, please re-send. It
disappeared from the screen for some reason before I could read it.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 12:44:30 2003
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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Thursday, February 20, 2003 at 10:12, Janet Hardy wrote:

> Any chance you'll be in Toronto the weekend of April 12? I'm speaking
> at a conference there that weekend.

Well *I*'m here even if he isn't. Got accomodation etc. arranged?
Travel dates?

Tony H.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:54:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 12:51:30 PM, Karen Kay wrote:

> Thursday, February 20, 2003, 12:43:08 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:

>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: English Language Discussion Group
>>>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Karen Kay
>>>Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:34 PM
>>>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>>Subject: Alec
>>>
>>>
>>>You have a broken link at the bottom.
>>>
>>>Karen
>>>"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me
>>>only yesterday."
>>>   -Eeyore
>>>
>> It works for me in IE6, Netscape 7 and Opera 7. What browser are you using?

> Netscape 7 over cable. Weird. It must have just timed out; I know
> it took forever.

No problem in IE. I don't get it.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 13:50:20 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:28:23 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 11:59 AM 2/19/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > At 06:08 PM 2/17/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> > >Food was put here for our enjoyment. I'm not eating food that
> > >doesn't make me happy.
> > >
> > >Karen,
> > >Not a practical-minded weasel
> >
> > Food was no put here for our enjoyment. Food was put here to fuel us.
> >
> > If you're eating for enjoyment, that's you're hobby, your interest, you
> > passion, whatever. It doesn't mean replace the necessity food meets.
> >
> > lisa
>
>
>Put here?
>It could be argued that the raw materials were "put here" (depending on your
>theology) but I wouldn't call how we arrange and combine those raw
>materials a "put
>here" kind of thing.
>
>BrP

I didn't give that much though to how I phrased my response. Those were the
words that came to me at the time.

lisa

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Lame site. Stats.
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:50:37 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Paul R. Barfoot
>Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 2:47 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Lame site. Stats.
>
>
>> >> I just setup web stats on my lame web site. Check it out, so
>> >I can test it.
>> >
>> >I checked it out. Did you count me?
>> >alyce
>> >
>>
>> No, try again.
>>
>>
>> alec
>>
>>
>> ------------
>> Alec D. Plotkin
>> plotkina@isc.upenn.edu
>> http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/
>> ''If we make peaceful revolution impossible, we make violent
>revolution
>> inevitable.'' - John F. Kennedy
>
>What about me?
>
>BrP
>

Yeah, I saw a syr.edu on the list of domains.


Thanks,


alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 14:07:46 2003
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Tony:
> Like http://www.wearcam.org/neutral_ground_north_america_small.png
> Or should that be http://wearcam.org/neutral_ground.png ?

Y'know, I've been using that expression for over ten
years, and that interpretation has never before crossed
my mind.

--
Richard 9:12          #19, top, neutral ground side

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 15:10:56 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:00:37 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: bonnie
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>If the note you just sent about scores is important, please re-send. It
>disappeared from the screen for some reason before I could read it.
>alyce

Not important.  Clyde sort of answered it.  I just said:   "I can't explain
it.   I only know that now, after the movie is out, they are producing the
sheet music."


    --bonniev

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> Thursday, February 20, 2003, 10:46:34 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > Is a single inhabitant of Roti called a Roti?

    Wouldn't he be a Rotan?

John "Man-to-man..." W.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:04:58 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >If the note you just sent about scores is important, please re-send. It
> >disappeared from the screen for some reason before I could read it.
> >alyce
>
> Not important.  Clyde sort of answered it.  I just said:   "I can't explain
> it.   I only know that now, after the movie is out, they are producing the
> sheet music."

Thanks. It makes sense that it has to be typeset, so to speak, for
commercial use.

alyce

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John Williams wrote:
>
> > Thursday, February 20, 2003, 10:46:34 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > > Is a single inhabitant of Roti called a Roti?
>
>     Wouldn't he be a Rotan?

Or a rotisseri or a rotarian.

alyce

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On 20 Feb 2003 at 10:46, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Is a single inhabitant of Roti called a Roti?

A quick search of the Web convinces me that a single inhabitant is
called a Rotarian.


    mem

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:12:37 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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>  > prbarfoo wrote:
>>
>>  > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
>>  >
>>  > (please)
>>
>>  What's the latest on that front?
>>
>>  --
>>   -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>No news.  If there were any major developments I would certainly
>report them here.
>Steve may be coming here for the summer or part of it - other than
>that, it's still trips
>to Toronto for me.

Any chance you'll be in Toronto the weekend of April 12? I'm speaking
at a conference there that weekend.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:23:05 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: mews from Namibia
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02003-02-20 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> Look.  We're going to go.  We're going to go somewhere.  If we're
> lucky the political situation in Namibia will not degenerate into
> one like Zimbabwe.  Where would you rather we go?  Just which
> country meets your unstated criteria that we not go to some fad
> country.

You speak like somebody's stopping you ... Go where you wish ... puh!

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alyce:
> This goes against everything I was ever taught
> by Bela Lugosi and Lon Chaney.

Unsettling, isn't it?

Everything we know about mummies may be wrong, too!

--
Richard 10:13          #19, top, neutral ground side

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Lame site. Stats.
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:28:35 -0500
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
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Folks,

I just setup web stats on my lame web site. Check it out, so I can test it.
Thanks in advance.


alec

------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/

''If we make peaceful revolution impossible, we make violent revolution
inevitable.'' - John F. Kennedy

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
> > >I have one, plus we have a double sized one as well.
> >
> > Our two zip together to make a double.   But we only used them once,
>some
> > 30 years ago.
>
>Pretty much any of the same kind will zip together to make a double,
>won't they?  We always did that.

Not all. My other one is one of those that tapers at the bottom (I hate it)
and I don't think it would zip with a similar one. The double was bought as
a double, but yes I presume it is also two singles. We've not used it yet.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 10:34:57 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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>On Thursday, February 20, 2003 at 10:12, Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>  Any chance you'll be in Toronto the weekend of April 12? I'm speaking
>>  at a conference there that weekend.
>
>Well *I*'m here even if he isn't. Got accomodation etc. arranged?
>Travel dates?

Oh hell yes, I forgot that you live there :/

Hmm. I just checked the website (www.snow-bound.ca, if you're
interested) and it says the conference is being held in "a resort
near Collingwood, Ontario, about 1 1/2 hours north of Toronto." (It's
pretty standard to withhold the actual name and address of the hotel
until after one has registered in order to discourage fundies and
other Unhelpful People.) Is that a long ways from where you are?

Janet

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:34:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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You have a broken link at the bottom.

Karen
"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me only yesterday."
   -Eeyore

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 15:11:06 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:34:19 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
>
> Folks,
>
> I just setup web stats on my lame web site. Check it out, so I can test it.

I checked it out. Did you count me?
alyce

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Alec
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:43:08 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Karen Kay
>Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:34 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Alec
>
>
>You have a broken link at the bottom.
>
>Karen
>"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me
>only yesterday."
>   -Eeyore
>
It works for me in IE6, Netscape 7 and Opera 7. What browser are you using?


alec

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:48:23 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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02003-02-19 | Betty <bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> >> Let's discuss you.  How often do you have to shave your head?  Do
> >> you smear shaving cream on it and use a straight edge or do you use
> >> mechanical implements of torture?
> >
> >You know, not picking on somebody doesn't have to mean picking on
> >somebody else. Take your pickin' fingers elsewhere ...
>
> Just answer the questions and then I'll go to bed.

I apologize for your sleepless night--then again you are but one
lady among hundreds ... ha ha ha ... for a systematic discussion
of head-shaving and shaving in general by several of my dickheaded
friends from C*****o--and I call them friends loosely--please consult
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=6857abd3f9cc9ffb&rnum=1>.
There is no need to revisit well-explored topics. However, be warned
in advance if you don't enjoy 100+ posts of unparalleled male stupidity.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 12:51:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 12:43:08 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:

>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: English Language Discussion Group
>>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Karen Kay
>>Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:34 PM
>>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>>Subject: Alec
>>
>>
>>You have a broken link at the bottom.
>>
>>Karen
>>"One can't complain. I have my friends. Somebody spoke to me
>>only yesterday."
>>   -Eeyore
>>
> It works for me in IE6, Netscape 7 and Opera 7. What browser are you using?

Netscape 7 over cable. Weird. It must have just timed out; I know
it took forever.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 15:11:09 2003
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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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At 12:48 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>02003-02-19 | Betty <bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> > >> Let's discuss you.  How often do you have to shave your head?  Do
> > >> you smear shaving cream on it and use a straight edge or do you use
> > >> mechanical implements of torture?
> > >
> > >You know, not picking on somebody doesn't have to mean picking on
> > >somebody else. Take your pickin' fingers elsewhere ...
> >
> > Just answer the questions and then I'll go to bed.
>
>I apologize for your sleepless night--then again you are but one
>lady among hundreds ... ha ha ha ... for a systematic discussion
>of head-shaving and shaving in general by several of my dickheaded
>friends from C*****o--and I call them friends loosely--please consult
><http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=6857abd3f9cc9ffb&rnum=1>.
>There is no need to revisit well-explored topics. However, be warned
>in advance if you don't enjoy 100+ posts of unparalleled male stupidity.


Did you get yourself a chunk of high carbon steel?

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 15:11:09 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:56:52 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: today
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At 08:17 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:

>There are a couple of movies l want to see:  Shanghai Knights
>and Daredevil.  Maybe Kathie will be free on Saturday.
>
>Evelyn Duncan
>brandykitt@aol.com
>This account protected by an attack sheep.

Daredevil sucked. Ben can't act for shit. Jennifer Garner is hot (so says
my girl) but her part wasn't as big as it's advertised. There was no plot
or character development. Characters just appeared on the screen, you had
to figure out who they were. Basically it was one fight scene, lameass ones
at that, after another.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 15:11:10 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Bitch clothes
In-Reply-To: <127661927521.20030219100528@WordWrite.com>
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            <20030217225000.A9414@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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At 10:05 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 9:55:17 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > If it is not the writers' fault, then I
> > will move the blame to the owners of the companies who let poor
> > instructions out.
>
>The time line for documentation at the last company I worked at
>in San Jose was that the docs had to be done six weeks before the
>product in order for the product to be shipped with docs. Changes
>were inevitably introduced during that time.
>
>Karen,
>Not a practical-minded weasel

Wow, I've always waited for documentation whether it was install/user
manual stuff or release notes.

I can't imagine it being the other way around, 6 weeks is long enough to
totally re-write a product. It happens here all the time!

lisa

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> >  > prbarfoo wrote:
> >>
> >>  > I'm clearly a failure as an American.  Deport me to Canada.
> >>  >
> >>  > (please)
> >>
> >>  What's the latest on that front?
> >>
> >>  --
> >>   -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
> >
> >No news.  If there were any major developments I would certainly
> >report them here.
> >Steve may be coming here for the summer or part of it - other than
> >that, it's still trips
> >to Toronto for me.
>
> Any chance you'll be in Toronto the weekend of April 12? I'm speaking
> at a conference there that weekend.
>
> Janet

I don't know yet - it's always a possibility.  If I am there I would love to see you.
I'll mark it on my calendar and let you know as soo as I do.


BrP

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 09:27 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 8:30:17 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > Iceberg has come up on this list before and I always thought it was rather
> > snobby of people to scoff at it, treating it as a lower class lettuce.
>
>I don't think of it as lower class. I just don't like it. I don't
>like fish eggs either. Are those lower class?

No, they're too salty is what they are.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:33:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 1:26:23 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> At 10:05 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 9:55:17 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
>> > If it is not the writers' fault, then I
>> > will move the blame to the owners of the companies who let poor
>> > instructions out.
>>
>>The time line for documentation at the last company I worked at
>>in San Jose was that the docs had to be done six weeks before the
>>product in order for the product to be shipped with docs. Changes
>>were inevitably introduced during that time.
>>
>>Karen,
>>Not a practical-minded weasel

> Wow, I've always waited for documentation whether it was install/user
> manual stuff or release notes.

The companies I've worked at have more than one developer.

> I can't imagine it being the other way around, 6 weeks is long enough to
> totally re-write a product. It happens here all the time!

This is a problem. And in general, it's being solved by not
having any documentation at all.

Karen

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At 11:06 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 10:53:47 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > Food was no put here for our enjoyment. Food was put here to fuel us.
>
>Did you read the news the other day about how supertasters are
>more liable to certain kinds of cancers? The reason is that many
>foods that are good for them taste too bitter for them. If
>fueling was enough, this would not be an issue.

huh?


> > If you're eating for enjoyment, that's you're hobby, your interest, you
> > passion, whatever. It doesn't mean replace the necessity food meets.
>
>Why does it have to be either or? Life is seldom binary.

First.. ugh.. I obviously didn't read/edit what I wrote sorry for the
strain on the eyes.

Second, I didn't mean to imply it was either or. I eat some things I don't
particularly care because I crave them. I know I've mentioned here before
that I started eating bananas when I started losing weight and working out
regularly. I never liked bananas and I can't say they're a favorite fruit
even now but I crave them so I eat them. I figure I must need them.

For the most part though, I love food and love to eat for the flavors and
feelings. Even when I'm ultra hungry I won't eat any old thing simply for
the fuel.

lisa

>Karen,
>Not a practical-minded weasel

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 13:38:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 1:34:31 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:

> At 11:06 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 10:53:47 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>> > Food was no put here for our enjoyment. Food was put here to fuel us.
>>
>>Did you read the news the other day about how supertasters are
>>more liable to certain kinds of cancers? The reason is that many
>>foods that are good for them taste too bitter for them. If
>>fueling was enough, this would not be an issue.

> huh?

People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
news.

> For the most part though, I love food and love to eat for the flavors and
> feelings. Even when I'm ultra hungry I won't eat any old thing simply for
> the fuel.

QED: Food exists for our enjoyment.

Karen

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On Thursday, February 20, 2003 at 12:23, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh
wrote:

> Richard 10:13          #19, top, neutral ground side

Like http://www.wearcam.org/neutral_ground_north_america_small.png ?
Or should that be http://wearcam.org/neutral_ground.png ?

Tony H.

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:44:43 -0500
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>
> People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
> according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
> news.


I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed fuel a message is sent to
the tastebuds though.  Like you said (I think it was you) it's not as simple as fuel or
enjoyment - it's both and many other things.







>
> > For the most part though, I love food and love to eat for the flavors and
> > feelings. Even when I'm ultra hungry I won't eat any old thing simply for
> > the fuel.
>
> QED: Food exists for our enjoyment.
>
> Karen

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Lame site. Stats.
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:45:24 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of alyce cresap
>Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 1:34 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Lame site. Stats.
>
>
>"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
>>
>> Folks,
>>
>> I just setup web stats on my lame web site. Check it out, so
>I can test it.
>
>I checked it out. Did you count me?
>alyce
>

No, try again.


alec


------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu
http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/
''If we make peaceful revolution impossible, we make violent revolution
inevitable.'' - John F. Kennedy

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 15:11:17 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:46:35 -0500
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> >> I just setup web stats on my lame web site. Check it out, so
> >I can test it.
> >
> >I checked it out. Did you count me?
> >alyce
> >
>
> No, try again.
>
>
> alec
>
>
> ------------
> Alec D. Plotkin
> plotkina@isc.upenn.edu
> http://pobox.upenn.edu/~plotkina/
> ''If we make peaceful revolution impossible, we make violent revolution
> inevitable.'' - John F. Kennedy

What about me?

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 15:11:18 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:02:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 1:44:43 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed
> fuel a message is sent to the tastebuds though. Like you said
> (I think it was you) it's not as simple as fuel or enjoyment -
> it's both and many other things.

Yes. I wonder if Lisa's banana craving was a potassium need.

And yes, I think food is many, many things.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:11:01 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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http://tinyurl.com/65ba

Ebay has recorded every bit of data on everyone's browsing, buying,
selling, and more, since the moment they went on-line. And they don't
hesitate to share it with the law.

alyce
(who fears falling off edges and being fingered by ebay, but I am not
afraid of Saddam Hussein)

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-20 | "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM> writes:
> At 03:11 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
> >http://tinyurl.com/65ba
> >
> >Ebay has recorded every bit of data on everyone's browsing, buying,
> >selling, and more, since the moment they went on-line. And they don't
> >hesitate to share it with the law.
>
> What a perfectly excellent reason for not using Ebay.

Not showing up on Ebay strikes me as suspicious. Everybody's doing
it, so why not you?

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At 02:44 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> >
> > People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
> > according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
> > news.
>
>
>I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed fuel a message
>is sent to
>the tastebuds though.  Like you said (I think it was you) it's not as
>simple as fuel or
>enjoyment - it's both and many other things.

You are much smarter than your evil twin.  :-)

Betty

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At 03:29 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
>At 03:11 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>>http://tinyurl.com/65ba
>>
>>Ebay has recorded every bit of data on everyone's browsing, buying,
>>selling, and more, since the moment they went on-line. And they don't
>>hesitate to share it with the law.
>
>What a perfectly excellent reason for not using Ebay.  It may well be,
>though, that before the Geheime, er, Ministry of Internal Security gets
>done, all large-volume web sites will be doing the same.
>
>cwv

I just assumed they all did.  I'm ready for the women's prison movie.

Betty

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:19:22 -0600
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:03:38 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
[about my statement that food exists for our enjoyment]
> Isn't this just your personal opinion?

It's quite widely shared.

> To some it may be survival period. Not that there is anything
> wrong with you enjoying your food. Bless your heart. Not
> everyone has a choice no matter what their taste buds may be
> telling them.

Sure. I think choice is connected closely to pleasure.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:20:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:05:00 PM, Betty Clark wrote:

> At 02:44 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>> >
>> > People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>> > according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>> > news.
>>
>>
>>I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed fuel a message
>>is sent to
>>the tastebuds though.  Like you said (I think it was you) it's not as
>>simple as fuel or
>>enjoyment - it's both and many other things.

> You are much smarter than your evil twin.  :-)

Why is he smarter than me when he's saying what I said?!

Is it because he's a man? Do you respect him more?

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:39:30 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 12:44 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:33:42 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
> > Yes. caffeine has been hard for me to give up.
>
>Have you tried green tea? It has caffeine, but it seems to be
>easier to handle for a lot of people.
>
>Karen,
>Not a practical-minded weasel

Tea in general has more caffeine than coffee, or so I've heard. This is
just a guess but, maybe it's easier because it's not as acidic. I do not
like tea so I really shouldn't be speaking on this subject.

Sort of related... I recently overheard a conversation wherein one
participant warned the other that green tea stains your teeth worse than
regular tea and/or coffee.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:29:41 -0600
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 2:39:30 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> Tea in general has more caffeine than coffee, or so I've heard.

You are wrong.

http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/19991108.html

> Sort of related... I recently overheard a conversation wherein one
> participant warned the other that green tea stains your teeth worse than
> regular tea and/or coffee.

Don't think so.

Karen

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At 02:57 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 10:38:44 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > Whatever the reason, whoever is to blame, the fact remains that I am
> > unable to understand the instructions for nearly everything I have.
>
>I have a question for you, Alyce.
>
>How do you do with the documentation that is all pictures and no
>words? I know Dell does this, because I've worked on the, and HP,
>because I have an HP printer. I have other bits and pieces that
>are like that, too.
>
>Karen

I know you asked Alyce but I'm going tell you how I feel about it. I hate
it! The router I bought a while back came with this kind of documentation.
It took was missing steps and made the installation a bit painful.

lisa

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Subject: Re: my new niece
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 9:11:51 AM, bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU writes:

<< I finally got some pictures of my new niece Alena.  She's been
>home for a couple of weeks now, and keeping my brother and his
>wife very busy. >>

I bet! Her brother looks happy enough too.
Theo

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:32:26 -0600
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:28:36 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:

> At 04:18 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:48:23 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>> > My mother had one of those. My brother managed to knock out his two front
>> > teeth with the thing. He slipped, the shovel didn't budge, he face planted
>> > on the scoop, his front teeth we no more.
>>
>>Do you really think this is more likely to happen with a
>>snowscoop than a shovel?
>>
>>Karen

> Did I say that?

You implied it, which is why I was checking.

Karen

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At 03:07 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> > At 12:48 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > >02003-02-19 | Betty <bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> > >> >> Let's discuss you.  How often do you have to shave your head?  Do
> > >> >> you smear shaving cream on it and use a straight edge or do you use
> > >> >> mechanical implements of torture?
> > >> >
> > >> >You know, not picking on somebody doesn't have to mean picking on
> > >> >somebody else. Take your pickin' fingers elsewhere ...
> > >>
> > >> Just answer the questions and then I'll go to bed.
> > >
> > >I apologize for your sleepless night--then again you are but one
> > >lady among hundreds ... ha ha ha ... for a systematic discussion
> > >of head-shaving and shaving in general by several of my dickheaded
> > >friends from C*****o--and I call them friends loosely--please consult
> > ><http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=6857abd3f9cc9ffb&rnum=1>.
> > >There is no need to revisit well-explored topics. However, be warned
> > >in advance if you don't enjoy 100+ posts of unparalleled male stupidity.
> >
> > Did you get yourself a chunk of high carbon steel?
>
>Looks like flinging a 100-post thread at you doesn't stop you. Great!
>Don't you think you are asking a kind of a personal question?


So?  This is words-l.  You keep bringing up your shaved head.  The last
time was to Alyce.

Betty

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At 03:19 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:03:38 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
>[about my statement that food exists for our enjoyment]
> > Isn't this just your personal opinion?
>
>It's quite widely shared.


Uh huh.


> > To some it may be survival period. Not that there is anything
> > wrong with you enjoying your food. Bless your heart. Not
> > everyone has a choice no matter what their taste buds may be
> > telling them.
>
>Sure. I think choice is connected closely to pleasure.
>
>Karen


Uh huh.

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 03:20 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:05:00 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
>
> > At 02:44 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> >> >
> >> > People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
> >> > according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
> >> > news.
> >>
> >>
> >>I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed fuel a message
> >>is sent to
> >>the tastebuds though.  Like you said (I think it was you) it's not as
> >>simple as fuel or
> >>enjoyment - it's both and many other things.
>
> > You are much smarter than your evil twin.  :-)
>
>Why is he smarter than me when he's saying what I said?!
>
>Is it because he's a man? Do you respect him more?
>
>Karen

You have a reading problem today.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:43:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:31:42 PM, Betty Clark wrote:

> At 03:19 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:03:38 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
>>[about my statement that food exists for our enjoyment]
>> > Isn't this just your personal opinion?
>>
>>It's quite widely shared.


> Uh huh.


>> > To some it may be survival period. Not that there is anything
>> > wrong with you enjoying your food. Bless your heart. Not
>> > everyone has a choice no matter what their taste buds may be
>> > telling them.
>>
>>Sure. I think choice is connected closely to pleasure.
>>
>>Karen


> Uh huh.

You know, like stress correlates closely to lack of control...

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:44:26 -0600
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:32:35 PM, Betty Clark wrote:

> At 03:20 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:05:00 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
>>
>> > At 02:44 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>> >> > according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>> >> > news.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed fuel a message
>> >>is sent to
>> >>the tastebuds though.  Like you said (I think it was you) it's not as
>> >>simple as fuel or
>> >>enjoyment - it's both and many other things.
>>
>> > You are much smarter than your evil twin.  :-)
>>
>>Why is he smarter than me when he's saying what I said?!
>>
>>Is it because he's a man? Do you respect him more?
>>
>>Karen

> You have a reading problem today.

No, you have a writing problem today.

Karen

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In a message dated 2/19/2003 11:48:53 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< If in English translation, I'd like to read them.

alyce
 >>

Me too, Theo

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:29:51 -0500
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At 03:11 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>http://tinyurl.com/65ba
>
>Ebay has recorded every bit of data on everyone's browsing, buying,
>selling, and more, since the moment they went on-line. And they don't
>hesitate to share it with the law.

What a perfectly excellent reason for not using Ebay.  It may well be,
though, that before the Geheime, er, Ministry of Internal Security gets
done, all large-volume web sites will be doing the same.

cwv

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:09:31 -0500
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Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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On Thursday, February 20, 2003 at 10:34, Janet Hardy wrote:

> Oh hell yes, I forgot that you live there :/

:-{

> Hmm. I just checked the website (www.snow-bound.ca, if you're
> interested) and it says the conference is being held in "a resort
> near Collingwood, Ontario, about 1 1/2 hours north of Toronto." (It's
> pretty standard to withhold the actual name and address of the hotel
> until after one has registered in order to discourage fundies and
> other Unhelpful People.) Is that a long ways from where you are?

Well, about 1 1/2 hours north, I'd say. Maybe a bit more would make
for a more comfortable trip, depending on how close to the city
centre you start from. It's not somewhere I'm likely to pop up to
casually from here. But if you're flying in, we could certainly
arrange something.

Now I must say that early April is an odd time for a place like
Collingwood. It's a ski area, but the skiing won't be up to much that
late in the year. But it sure won't be swimming weather either! Very
much the Off Season, I'd think. Maybe that's why you're there -
presumably rates are down.

Oh this is cute:

"Should I bring my skis?

No! Southern Ontario in April is very mild, and a light spring jacket
should be all the outerwear you'll need. Of course, freak weather can
happen anywhere, and it's not unheard of for there to be a few light
flurries even as late as April. However, even in the unlikely event
that we do get snow, there won't be any accumulation on the ground.
So leave the skis at home!"

Heh heh heh... Very mild... Light spring jacket... No accumulation...
Oh my!

Ahem - where was I? I see you're the featured speaker - neat! It
doesn't take a vast amount of detective work to find the place, btw.
Would you like to know where you're staying?

Tony H.

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 01:38 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 1:34:31 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > At 11:06 AM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 10:53:47 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> >> > Food was no put here for our enjoyment. Food was put here to fuel us.
> >>
> >>Did you read the news the other day about how supertasters are
> >>more liable to certain kinds of cancers? The reason is that many
> >>foods that are good for them taste too bitter for them. If
> >>fueling was enough, this would not be an issue.
>
> > huh?
>
>People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>news.
>
> > For the most part though, I love food and love to eat for the flavors and
> > feelings. Even when I'm ultra hungry I won't eat any old thing simply for
> > the fuel.
>
>QED: Food exists for our enjoyment.

Isn't this just your personal opinion? To some it may be survival
period.  Not that there is anything wrong with you enjoying your
food.  Bless your heart.  Not everyone has a choice no matter what their
taste buds may be telling them.

Betty

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 15:07:10 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> At 12:48 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >02003-02-19 | Betty <bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> >> >> Let's discuss you.  How often do you have to shave your head?  Do
> >> >> you smear shaving cream on it and use a straight edge or do you use
> >> >> mechanical implements of torture?
> >> >
> >> >You know, not picking on somebody doesn't have to mean picking on
> >> >somebody else. Take your pickin' fingers elsewhere ...
> >>
> >> Just answer the questions and then I'll go to bed.
> >
> >I apologize for your sleepless night--then again you are but one
> >lady among hundreds ... ha ha ha ... for a systematic discussion
> >of head-shaving and shaving in general by several of my dickheaded
> >friends from C*****o--and I call them friends loosely--please consult
> ><http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&th=6857abd3f9cc9ffb&rnum=1>.
> >There is no need to revisit well-explored topics. However, be warned
> >in advance if you don't enjoy 100+ posts of unparalleled male stupidity.
>
> Did you get yourself a chunk of high carbon steel?

Looks like flinging a 100-post thread at you doesn't stop you. Great!
Don't you think you are asking a kind of a personal question?

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:19:42 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 02:52 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Janet:
> > proposed ban on ephedra in the wake of the death of some ballplayer.)
>
>Even the NFL has banned that stuff.
>
>I guess this Bechler sap was using it to try to get
>in shape.  What does a baseball player care about
>being in shape?  Better crotch grabbing?
>
>--
>Richard 10:13           Dove Sortie III: MIA

I read that the kid (he as only 23) had gained 10 lbs during the off
season. He was 6'3" and weighed around 240. That's pretty heavy for an
athelete. There certainly are bigger players, pitchers included but, I
think they've been playing at their weight for a while. This guy was out of
shape and trying to make up for it in the humidity.

MLB has come under heavy criticism in recent years for their refusal to ban
many substances. Mark Maguire was using something the year he broke Roger
Maris' single season home run record. He made no apologies for it either.
As a matter of he was irritated when question about it.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:28:36 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 04:18 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:48:23 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > My mother had one of those. My brother managed to knock out his two front
> > teeth with the thing. He slipped, the shovel didn't budge, he face planted
> > on the scoop, his front teeth we no more.
>
>Do you really think this is more likely to happen with a
>snowscoop than a shovel?
>
>Karen

Did I say that?

lisa

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 10:00:09 AM, prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU writes:

<< If you're eating for enjoyment, that's you're hobby, your interest, you
> passion, whatever. It doesn't mean replace the necessity food meets.
 >>

I have never understood the way some (most?) people look forward to a meal. I
eat because I MUST, but not because I greatly enjoy doing it.
Theo

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lisa:
>Mark Maguire was using something the year he broke Roger

Both androstenedione and creatine.

Barry Bonds admits to gobbling creatine.

--
...and people say I'm not a baseball fan.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:09:27 EST
Subject: Re: introduction
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 1:54:12 PM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:

<< Well it's good to know I have at least one fan >>

Aww poor thing. There,there. We all love you. Theo

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:15:53 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 01:38 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:

> >>Did you read the news the other day about how supertasters are
> >>more liable to certain kinds of cancers? The reason is that many
> >>foods that are good for them taste too bitter for them. If
> >>fueling was enough, this would not be an issue.
>
> > huh?
>
>People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>news.

Interesting, before today I'd never heard of a super taster. I thought it
might be someone who tastes food professionally but that didn't make sense.
Thanks for the explanation.


> > For the most part though, I love food and love to eat for the flavors and
> > feelings. Even when I'm ultra hungry I won't eat any old thing simply for
> > the fuel.
>
>QED: Food exists for our enjoyment.
>
>Karen

And there you have it.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 16:42:41 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:18:19 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 02:02 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 1:44:43 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> > I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed
> > fuel a message is sent to the tastebuds though. Like you said
> > (I think it was you) it's not as simple as fuel or enjoyment -
> > it's both and many other things.
>
>Yes. I wonder if Lisa's banana craving was a potassium need.
>
>And yes, I think food is many, many things.
>
>Karen

I assumed it was potassium. What amazes me though is, kiwi supposedly has a
higher concentration of potassium, it's a fruit I love and yet it's not
what I craved. You'd think if I was going to crave something it  would at
least be something I liked.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:20:26 EST
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 3:00:36 PM, alfieri@ATTBI.COM writes:

<< I was home at the time and seeing him come through the door, crying and
bleeding from the mouth was horrible. I was so upset a neighbor actually
called the ambulance because I couldn't convey what was wrong with him.
 >>

That must have been horrible, but anything can cause damage if not handled
with care of course. I have no experience with these tools at all, so I can't
judge which one is better or safer. Theo

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:22:58 EST
Subject: Re: no CT scan
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 3:00:36 PM, alfieri@ATTBI.COM writes:

<< Congrats to your sister. I don't of Bailey as a girl's name. Maybe this is
because I know three people with dogs named Bailey. Mostly though, Bailey
is the name of the Irish Creme I like in my coffee.
 >>

I've never heard that name at all, unless I've forgotten. Sound kinda unusual
to me, of course, but I do like it. Theo

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:22:43 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 03:29 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 2:39:30 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > Tea in general has more caffeine than coffee, or so I've heard.
>
>You are wrong.
>
>http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/19991108.html

Did you know this before you found this site?


> > Sort of related... I recently overheard a conversation wherein one
> > participant warned the other that green tea stains your teeth worse than
> > regular tea and/or coffee.
>
>Don't think so.
>
>Karen

Couldn't find a site to back it up though?

lisa

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:23:48 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 03:32 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:28:36 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > At 04:18 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:48:23 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> >> > My mother had one of those. My brother managed to knock out his two
> front
> >> > teeth with the thing. He slipped, the shovel didn't budge, he face
> planted
> >> > on the scoop, his front teeth we no more.
> >>
> >>Do you really think this is more likely to happen with a
> >>snowscoop than a shovel?
> >>
> >>Karen
>
> > Did I say that?
>
>You implied it, which is why I was checking.
>
>Karen

No I didn't. I simply told the story of what happened to my brother with
the shovel. And you weren't checking, you were picking.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:32:07 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: report from NYC
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:15:53 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:

> At 01:38 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:

>> >>Did you read the news the other day about how supertasters are
>> >>more liable to certain kinds of cancers? The reason is that many
>> >>foods that are good for them taste too bitter for them. If
>> >>fueling was enough, this would not be an issue.
>>
>> > huh?
>>
>>People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>>according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>>news.

> Interesting, before today I'd never heard of a super taster. I thought it
> might be someone who tastes food professionally but that didn't make sense.
> Thanks for the explanation.

I thought we'd talked about supertasters here before. They taste
things normal people don't. Broccoli is one of the tests. If you
like broccoli, you're not a supertaster. I forget if they have
more tastebuds or if they are merely more sensitive.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:32:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:18:19 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> You'd think if I was going to crave something it  would at
> least be something I liked.

I believe Janet posted on this topic recently...

Karen

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In a message dated 2/19/2003 3:34:36 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Homeland Security says sleeping bags, not blankets. GWTP.

alyce >>

What do you suppose is going to happen to us, Alyce? Will only the people who
were sleeping in them survive? I don't understand their reasoning at all. If
your house is not damaged, why can't you just use your bed? If it's
destroyed, won't your sleeping bags be gone too? Theo

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:34:31 -0600
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:22:43 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> At 03:29 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 2:39:30 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>> > Tea in general has more caffeine than coffee, or so I've heard.
>>
>>You are wrong.
>>
>>http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/19991108.html

> Did you know this before you found this site?

Yes. I looked into this when I started drinking green tea 30
years ago.

>> > Sort of related... I recently overheard a conversation wherein one
>> > participant warned the other that green tea stains your teeth worse than
>> > regular tea and/or coffee.
>>
>>Don't think so.
>>
>>Karen

> Couldn't find a site to back it up though?

I didn't look. I will challenge you to find support for your
view, though, if you like.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 16:37:22 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:23:48 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:

> At 03:32 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:28:36 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>>
>> > At 04:18 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>> >>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:48:23 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>> >> > My mother had one of those. My brother managed to knock out his two
>> front
>> >> > teeth with the thing. He slipped, the shovel didn't budge, he face
>> planted
>> >> > on the scoop, his front teeth we no more.
>> >>
>> >>Do you really think this is more likely to happen with a
>> >>snowscoop than a shovel?
>> >>
>> >>Karen
>>
>> > Did I say that?
>>
>>You implied it, which is why I was checking.
>>
>>Karen

> No I didn't. I simply told the story of what happened to my brother with
> the shovel. And you weren't checking, you were picking.

No, you write so badly so much of the time, I'm never quite sure
what you mean. I was checking.

Karen

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At 05:15 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, lisa alfieri wrote:
>At 01:38 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>
>> >>Did you read the news the other day about how supertasters are
>> >>more liable to certain kinds of cancers? The reason is that many
>> >>foods that are good for them taste too bitter for them. If
>> >>fueling was enough, this would not be an issue.
>>
>> > huh?
>>
>>People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>>according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>>news.
>
>Interesting, before today I'd never heard of a super taster. I thought it
>might be someone who tastes food professionally but that didn't make sense.
>Thanks for the explanation.
>
>
>> > For the most part though, I love food and love to eat for the flavors and
>> > feelings. Even when I'm ultra hungry I won't eat any old thing simply for
>> > the fuel.
>>
>>QED: Food exists for our enjoyment.
>>
>>Karen
>
>And there you have it.
>
>lisa

Yup!

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At 05:23 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, lisa alfieri wrote:
>At 03:32 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:28:36 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>>
>> > At 04:18 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>> >>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 1:48:23 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>> >> > My mother had one of those. My brother managed to knock out his two
>>front
>> >> > teeth with the thing. He slipped, the shovel didn't budge, he face
>>planted
>> >> > on the scoop, his front teeth we no more.
>> >>
>> >>Do you really think this is more likely to happen with a
>> >>snowscoop than a shovel?
>> >>
>> >>Karen
>>
>> > Did I say that?
>>
>>You implied it, which is why I was checking.
>>
>>Karen
>
>No I didn't. I simply told the story of what happened to my brother with
>the shovel. And you weren't checking, you were picking.

It's what she does.  It's her job!

Betty

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At 10:19 AM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 9:07:08 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > This observation was made at some of the outdoor cafes we went to. I'm not
> > sure if they were serving American sized portions or if that was the norm.
> > All I know is, I can't eat what I'm served here and I couldn't eat what I
> > was served there.
>
>But at least here you can take the rest home.
>
> > One horrifying aspect of Spain was the fact every dish I ordered came
> > served in what looked like durablend motor oil. They called it olive oil
> > but I'm pretty sure I could have used the stuff in my car.
>
>It's good for you!
>
>Karen

I don't normally take food home. However you're right, here it is at least
an option.

Yes, olive oil is good for you. The quantity however could not have been
good. I ordered "grilled chicken" and I swear it came in about an inch of
oil. I ate a little as I was hungry but I felt like I had lead in my
stomach for most of the day. It definitely wasn't a comfortable feeling.

lisa

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 05:20 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, Theodora Groothof wrote:
>In a message dated 2/19/2003 3:00:36 PM, alfieri@ATTBI.COM writes:
>
><< I was home at the time and seeing him come through the door, crying and
>bleeding from the mouth was horrible. I was so upset a neighbor actually
>called the ambulance because I couldn't convey what was wrong with him.
>  >>
>
>That must have been horrible, but anything can cause damage if not handled
>with care of course. I have no experience with these tools at all, so I can't
>judge which one is better or safer. Theo

I have no idea either. We had the thing for a long, long time and never
used it. It was treated as a novelty item. The day my brother tried to use
it, he slipped and fell and knocked his teeth out. The wet, slippery ground
could have been more at fault than the shovel.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:35:28 EST
Subject: Re: layoffs
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In a message dated 2/19/2003 3:38:48 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Micron announces layoffs of 10% of its workforce worldwide >>

It was said yesterday that 10,000 workers will get booted in Boise alone.
Theo

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 14:27:37 -0800
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   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 03:44 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:32:35 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
>
> > At 03:20 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> >>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:05:00 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
> >>
> >> > At 02:44 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
> >> >> > according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
> >> >> > news.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed fuel a
> message
> >> >>is sent to
> >> >>the tastebuds though.  Like you said (I think it was you) it's not as
> >> >>simple as fuel or
> >> >>enjoyment - it's both and many other things.
> >>
> >> > You are much smarter than your evil twin.  :-)
> >>
> >>Why is he smarter than me when he's saying what I said?!
> >>
> >>Is it because he's a man? Do you respect him more?
> >>
> >>Karen
>
> > You have a reading problem today.
>
>No, you have a writing problem today.

You have both a writing and comprehension problem but this is a game you
play with Natalie, not me.  Go eat something over the sink.

Betty

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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:27:37 PM, Betty Clark wrote:

> At 03:44 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:32:35 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
>>
>> > At 03:20 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>> >>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 3:05:00 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > At 02:44 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>> >> >> > according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>> >> >> > news.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed fuel a
>> message
>> >> >>is sent to
>> >> >>the tastebuds though.  Like you said (I think it was you) it's not as
>> >> >>simple as fuel or
>> >> >>enjoyment - it's both and many other things.
>> >>
>> >> > You are much smarter than your evil twin.  :-)
>> >>
>> >>Why is he smarter than me when he's saying what I said?!
>> >>
>> >>Is it because he's a man? Do you respect him more?
>> >>
>> >>Karen
>>
>> > You have a reading problem today.
>>
>>No, you have a writing problem today.

> You have both a writing and comprehension problem but this is a game you
> play with Natalie, not me.  Go eat something over the sink.

I just did, actually. I'm making Ligniere some cookies, and ate
cookie dough over the sink.

Karen

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In a message dated 2/19/2003 4:31:10 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Nor would I. But we may be wrong. It seems that I may be the only
Wordsler who does not own one, and God knows I have at least one of
everything else ever invented.
 >>

Count me in. Haven't had one since I was a kid, and went camping once.
Theo

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At 04:54 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:

>I just did, actually. I'm making Ligniere some cookies, and ate
>cookie dough over the sink.
>
>Karen

What kind?

I experience Stone Mountain Ice Cream for the first time
today.   Yum!  Chocolate and strawberries.

Betty

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:12:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:59:38 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
> What kind?

Molasses cookies. Comfort food. (But I have no idea if he even
likes these. They are comfort food for me.)

> I experience Stone Mountain Ice Cream for the first time
> today.   Yum!  Chocolate and strawberries.

Dreamery ice cream was on sale a while back, so I bought their
version of Cherry Garcia. Not as good.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:14:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 5:08:13 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> No, you write so badly so much of the time, I'm never quite sure
>> what you mean. I was checking.

> Lisa's story was clearly written and had no hidden implications. Why do
> you go on like this? It is booooring.

Because I don't like it when people tell me what my motives are.
I don't do that to other people, I ask. I expect the same courtesy.

Karen

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Thursday, February 20, 2003 at 16:32, Karen Kay wrote:

> I thought we'd talked about supertasters here before. They taste
> things normal people don't. Broccoli is one of the tests. If you
> like broccoli, you're not a supertaster. I forget if they have
> more tastebuds or if they are merely more sensitive.

I think many children would count as supertasters. I know there were
all sorts of subtleties I could taste as a child that I either can't
now, or don't care about any more. F'rinstance I can remember well
that drinking milk after eating marmalade was quite impossible,
because the bitter marmalade taste changed the milk taste to
something unpleasant. Now I can tell the difference, but it seems
slight, and in any case it doesn't matter.

I can't remember if I liked broccoli as a child. Probably not,
because it would've been cooked to mush. Oh - I guess we had cheese &
trees on occasion. But my kids both like raw broccoli to some extent.

Tony H.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:25:25 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 5:18:32 PM, Tony Harminc wrote:
> I think many children would count as supertasters.

They aren't considered such--I don't know why, exactly. But
children are known to have sensitive taste buds. I think that
there's something about the distribution of the tastebuds. Sorry,
this is something I only read about in passing. I think if I had
Actual Children, I'd've paid more attention.

> I can't remember if I liked broccoli as a child. Probably not,
> because it would've been cooked to mush.

I know I didn't. There was a Broccoli Incident!

> Oh - I guess we had cheese & trees on occasion.

I love this name.

> But my kids both like raw broccoli to some extent.

I never saw a raw broccoli till I was in college.

Karen

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Subject: acadiafest
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:26:55 +0000
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Where should we make reservations? What day is the fest?
Who all are going? etc etc

-rashmi


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02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
>
> You keep bringing up your shaved head.

That's because I want to READ, lady!

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steph wrote:
> = Let's not forget that *ic* actually did fall off a cliff in Acadia.
> Oo!  Now you've done it.  This is one of those situations you're
> supposed to keep quiet about.

But it's too late to keep quiet about it.  She told us about it a long
time ago.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Well, yes.  I didn't just make up what I've said on this topic in the
past.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
>
> >This reminds me of a WLM at lunch today when some people were talking
> >about how shrimp in other parts of the country often tastes bland
> >because people apparently don't know how to cook it -- as in what you
> >put in with it when cooking it.  That led to a brief discussion about
> >bland food, with Pennsylvania and Indiana named as the blandest food
> >places the participants in this conversation had ever lived.

> Indiana, I might believe. Pennsylvania is full of taste.

I started to ask where in Pennsylvania these people had lived since I
would guess there might be variation from one end to the other.  But I
wasn't really <involved> in the conversation and didn't bother to ask.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 05:26 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> >
> > You keep bringing up your shaved head.
>
>That's because I want to READ, lady!

I ain't no lady!

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
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At 11:26 PM 2/20/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>Where should we make reservations? What day is the fest?
>Who all are going? etc etc
>
>-rashmi

http://www.words-l.net/

Click on the mountain

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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:

> > Will we all get to meet Steve at Acadiafest?
> >     --bonniev
>
> It's possible but not likely.  The distance is a bit beyond the range of his ability to sit
> without doing more damage to his back.

Break it up into small segments (the trip, I mean, not his back).

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:06:36 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>  why can't you just use your bed? If it's
> destroyed, won't your sleeping bags be gone too?

I am unable to answer technical questions like this. Please address your
inquiries to Mr. Tom Ridge, c/o Homeland Security.

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> No, you write so badly so much of the time, I'm never quite sure
> what you mean. I was checking.

Lisa's story was clearly written and had no hidden implications. Why do
you go on like this? It is booooring.

alyce

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> This observation was made at some of the outdoor cafes we went to. I'm not
> sure if they were serving American sized portions or if that was the norm.

I do know that the Spanish seem to love to eat.  Were you on a tour?  If
so, you might not have been eating at <normal> Spanish restaurants -- as
in where the locals would be more likely to go.  Also, it would probably
mean that you were eating at weird (to the Spanish) times.  Maybe they
served American-sized portions at those early hours.  I could never make
it living in Spain.  The idea of eating dinner at 11 p.m. (in cities --
it's early in small towns -- as early as 10) turns me off, though I've
managed to adapt when I needed to.

> One horrifying aspect of Spain was the fact every dish I ordered came
> served in what looked like durablend motor oil. They called it olive oil
> but I'm pretty sure I could have used the stuff in my car.

But supposedly a Mediterranean diet makes one live longer.  Suck in that
Durablend and live.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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At 12:10 AM 2/21/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>> >Where should we make reservations? What day is the fest?
>> >Who all are going? etc etc
>
>>http://www.words-l.net/
>
>>Click on the mountain
>
>Got it, thanks. Where are you guys staying? Adam, did you
>pick a place yet?

Geeze, I forgot the name of the place.  The reservations are at
home.  Bonnie knows. A B&B in town so I can walk and catch the trolly to
the park. It was cheaper than the motels during July.

Betty

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Subject: Re: Ebay as Big Brother
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At 03:05 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:

>Not showing up on Ebay strikes me as suspicious. Everybody's doing
>it, so why not you?

1.  I have nothing I particularly want to sell at auction.

2.  There is nothing I particularly want to buy at auction.

Best regards, Heinrich.

cwv

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At 11:26 PM 2/20/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:
>Where should we make reservations? What day is the fest?
>Who all are going? etc etc

Some of this, Betty has already answered.  As to who might show up, I think
that Bonnie has a tentative list---she may share it with you when she
returns from dinner.

cwv

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:51:17 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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>  betty wrote:
>>Geeze, I forgot the name of the place.  The reservations are at
>>home.  Bonnie knows. A B&B in town so I can walk and catch the trolly to
>>the park. It was cheaper than the motels during July.
>
>Hearthside Inn.
>cwv

But you can't stay there, Betty, if you are you going to change from three
nights to two.  There is a three night minimum on holiday weekends.


    --bonniev

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:18:38 -0500
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> Definitely, though, you would not enjoy Beech Cliffs.
>
> cwv

Nope. Wouldn't be prudent at any juncture.

Two most terrifying walks of my life: A) Top of Mount Tom, about 2500 feet,
when I was 10, and B) Cliff Walk in Newport, RI when I was 21 or so. GAH!

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:52:41 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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> Nope. Wouldn't be prudent at any juncture.
>
> Two most terrifying walks of my life: A) Top of Mount Tom, about 2500
> feet, when I was 10, and B) Cliff Walk in Newport, RI when I was 21 or
> so. GAH!
>
> --Adam
> adamh1@attbi.com

Oh my, I guess I have a much milder case than you. I did the Cliff Walk in
'91 while 3-4 months pregnant with Lillia.  I don't think I could have done
it later in the pregnancy, my balance wouldn't have been as good.

Terry

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:06:59 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> At 05:26 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> >>
> >> You keep bringing up your shaved head.
> >
> >That's because I want to READ, lady!
>
> I ain't no lady!

I just emailed you all the details of my shaving.

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: acadiafest
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:10:04 +0000
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> >Where should we make reservations? What day is the fest?
> >Who all are going? etc etc

>http://www.words-l.net/

>Click on the mountain

Got it, thanks. Where are you guys staying? Adam, did you
pick a place yet?

-rashmi

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 20:43:36 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:

> A quick search of the Web convinces me that a single inhabitant is
> called a Rotarian.

Thank all of you for your responses.  But I'm not convinced.  I'm
probably going to go on and go with "a Roti."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: acadiafest
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:17:56 -0500
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>From: Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Where should we make reservations? What day is the fest?
>Who all are going? etc etc

You know, if there's a war going on, and I can't go to Spain (and Morocco)
in July as planned, I plan to show up in Maine with my sleeping bag...

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 20:43:37 2003
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:

> >You have a broken link at the bottom.

> It works for me in IE6, Netscape 7 and Opera 7. What browser are you using?

I just checked in on your page and didn't notice any broken links.  I'm
using Netscape 4.7.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
> according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
> news.

I'm not convinced.  Not only have I read in <fact-based> places but also
my <gut feeling> tells me that our bodies often tell us what kind of
food is needed.  Maybe not every single day, but overall -- as in your
body is missing whatever, and you start craving whatever after a while.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:22:35 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:

> > People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
> > according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
> > news.
>
> I do think that when there is a lack of a particular needed fuel a message is sent to
> the tastebuds though.

What he said.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:23:41 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:

> >What about me?

> Yeah, I saw a syr.edu on the list of domains.

Do you have me?  I would show up as bellsouth.net.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 06:06 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> > At 05:26 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > >02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> > >>
> > >> You keep bringing up your shaved head.
> > >
> > >That's because I want to READ, lady!
> >
> > I ain't no lady!
>
>I just emailed you all the details of my shaving.

Thank you!

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:29:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I'm going to have to abandon some unread mail for a while so that I can
go into my kitchen and try to find <body fuel> and then watch Survivor
at 7.

Speaking of Survivor, have I asked before my niggling question re last
week?  I understand that the editing of the stuff is done with an eye
toward telling whatever story the producers want to tell, and I've read
the accusations made by some of the early participants about rigging of
things.  I'm not so naive as to believe that the whole thing is honest
and upright.  But at the end of last week's episode, I kept thinking
that surely they didn't rig it to the extent of making the women win.
But it was so perfect for the <story line>.  But then maybe the
<perfectness> was created by the editing -- the tacky things the men
were saying about the women, the women's ineptness at fire-building and
shelter-making, etc.  I would really be turned off if I thought the
whole thing was rigged.  Then again, those two men who lost it for their
team did look like total doofuses on that rail.  Maybe they were being
paid big bucks for doofusing their team to lose?
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 20:43:40 2003
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At 04:17 PM 2/20/2003 -0800, betty wrote:

>Geeze, I forgot the name of the place.  The reservations are at
>home.  Bonnie knows. A B&B in town so I can walk and catch the trolly to
>the park. It was cheaper than the motels during July.

Hearthside Inn.

cwv

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "meebers" <words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: IMFTATL: Norton AntiVirus
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:31:52 -0500
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My Norton AntiVirus 2002 subscription expired yesterday. Before I fork out
the money to renew it, do any of you know *exactly* where to go to on their
site to download free virus definition updates? I found the Intelligent
Updater downloads, but it won't work since the subscription is expired - the
program errors when I run it. Will LiveUpdate continue to work but display
an error each time I run it? Any hints would be welcome (and no, "Buy the
frickin' update" is not a useful hint).

TIA,
--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 20:43:42 2003
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From: "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@noxiousweeds.net>
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On 20 Feb 2003 at 18:14, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Thank all of you for your responses.  But I'm not convinced.  I'm
> probably going to go on and go with "a Roti."

Why did you pick such an obscure location in the first place?


    mem

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:37:42 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 6:21:16 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>> according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>> news.

> I'm not convinced.  Not only have I read in <fact-based> places but also
> my <gut feeling> tells me that our bodies often tell us what kind of
> food is needed.  Maybe not every single day, but overall -- as in your
> body is missing whatever, and you start craving whatever after a while.

Convinced of what? I certainly don't exclude what you're
mentioning.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 17:44:40 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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    Gosh.  The private sector catches up to libraries.

JMW

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=519&ncid=519&e=1&u=/ap/20030220/ap_on_re_us/book_purge_3

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:57:18 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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>>Where should we make reservations? What day is the fest?
>>Who all are going? etc etc
>
>Some of this, Betty has already answered.  As to who might show up, I think
>that Bonnie has a tentative list---she may share it with you when she
>returns from dinner.      --cwv

Or people could just raise their hands.    Betty and Larry.    The Wild
family.  Rashmi.   Adam.  BrPaul.   Love Judith and her Paul.   Lisa and
what's-her-name.   Sandra.  Natalie.  Bookrat. Heide and Alec.


    --bonniev

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: introduction
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:11:32 -0500
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> >Joanne Jemison wrote:
> Welcome.
>
> -rashmi

Don't bother, she unsubbed. :(

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:20:07 -0500
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> But Adam, worry not, you can sit around
> our house and keep me company.  I intend to man the homestead while others
> hike.

Phew! Great. I actually was somewhat worried about what I'd be doing at that
time.

I'll bring the dim sum; you bring the Scrabble. :D

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:34:45 -0500
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> No, they're too salty is what they are.
>
> lisa

Nonsense! Ikura (salmon roe) is one of my favorite kinds of sushi.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com
self-confessed salt vampire

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: acadiafest
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:55:01 -0500
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> Got it, thanks. Where are you guys staying? Adam, did you
> pick a place yet?

I've pretty much decided on the Edenbrook, but I haven't made my
reservations yet.

--Adam

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Don't Forget Survivor!
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>Then again, those two men who lost it for their
>team did look like total doofuses on that rail.  Maybe they were being
>paid big bucks for doofusing their team to lose?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

What was the question in all that?   I don't think any of it is
rigged.   They don't have to rig anything.  They don't have to script
anything.   They get many, many hours of camera footage.  They make a story
out of it after-the-fact.


    --bonniev

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> I've never heard that name at all, unless I've forgotten. Sound kinda unusual
> to me, of course, but I do like it. Theo

You need to stay more attuned to the history of MSU basketball!  One of
the stars in the late '50s, who still lives in Starkville, was Bailey
Howell.

Wasn't Bailey the name of Maya Angelou's younger brother?  Or was he a
fictional Bailey in _I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings_?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> What do you suppose is going to happen to us, Alyce? Will only the people who
> were sleeping in them survive? I don't understand their reasoning at all. If
> your house is not damaged, why can't you just use your bed? If it's
> destroyed, won't your sleeping bags be gone too? Theo

I've also wondered about this survival kit.  The part about the duct
tape makes it sound as if you're supposed to be sealing yourself into a
room in your house, but in other ways the suggestion seems to be packing
a bag of stuff to take when setting out to live in the wild.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:36:32 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> Don't bother, she unsubbed. :(

And I thought she liked us.

alyce

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>I'll bring the dim sum; you bring the Scrabble. :D
>--Adam

It's a deal.  As long as you eat the dim sum and let me win at Scrabble.


    --bonniev

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > No, you write so badly so much of the time, I'm never quite sure
> > what you mean. I was checking.
>
> Lisa's story was clearly written and had no hidden implications. Why do
> you go on like this? It is booooring.

It doesn't bother me that it's boring.  I romp through mail, deleting
quickly the threads/postings I personally find boring.  But the rudeness
does bother me, especially when the insult is inaccurate.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tushar Samant wrote:

> I just emailed you all the details of my shaving.

Are you coming to Acadiafest?  Can we watch you shave your head?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:

> > Thank all of you for your responses.  But I'm not convinced.  I'm
> > probably going to go on and go with "a Roti."
>
> Why did you pick such an obscure location in the first place?

The Roti culture was mentioned in my students' textbook and made a nice
contrast with what was said a couple of pages later about the Danes.  I
thought about making it a !Kung speaker instead of a Roti speaker, but
the Roti contrast is <neater>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
> >Geeze, I forgot the name of the place.  The reservations are at
> >home.  Bonnie knows. A B&B in town so I can walk and catch the trolly to
> >the park. It was cheaper than the motels during July.
>
> Hearthside Inn.

Betty can ask for a personal viewing of the pompom hat!  (Or have I got
my inns mixed up?)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Thursday, February 20, 2003, 6:21:16 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> >> People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
> >> according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
> >> news.
>
> > I'm not convinced.  Not only have I read in <fact-based> places but also
> > my <gut feeling> tells me that our bodies often tell us what kind of
> > food is needed.  Maybe not every single day, but overall -- as in your
> > body is missing whatever, and you start craving whatever after a while.
>
> Convinced of what? I certainly don't exclude what you're
> mentioning.

Not convinced that the best fuel isn't relevant.  The problem must be
that

| you write so badly so much of the time, I'm never quite sure
| what you mean.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:

> Or people could just raise their hands.    Betty and Larry.    The Wild
> family.  Rashmi.   Adam.  BrPaul.   Love Judith and her Paul.   Lisa and
> what's-her-name.   Sandra.  Natalie.  Bookrat. Heide and Alec.

Why is JMW's name not on the list?  He owes it to New England to show up
after spurning ClamBake when we thought he was going to come.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Natalie writes,

>Thank all of you for your responses.  But I'm not convinced.  I'm
>probably going to go on and go with "a Roti."

I probably missed some of the responses, but I note that "Rotinese" seems
pretty well-established: <http://www.google.com/search?q=Rotinese>.

Example: "... It is perhaps possible to determine by their accent in Malay
who is a Kambera speaker, a Savunese, a Rotinese, Timorese, Balinese, etc.,
but I have not checked ..."

Pete

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 18:51:41 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: painful WLM
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This came in on one of my other lists today:

Gene Helps Determine How Much You Hurt
By LAURAN NEERGAARD

WASHINGTON (AP) - When it comes to pain, people can be wimps, stoics or
somewhere in between. Now scientists have found one reason - a variation in
a single gene that shows stoics really can tolerate more pain.

<snip>

The new research shows how much you suffer is due at least partly to a gene
that helps regulate how many natural painkillers, called endorphins, your
body produces.

The gene produces an enzyme called COMT that metabolizes the brain chemical
dopamine, which acts as a signal messenger between brain cells.

Everyone has two copies of this gene, one inherited from each parent - but
they can inherit forms that differ by one amino acid. The COMT gene that
contains the amino acid methionine, or met, is less active than if it
contained the amino acid valine, or val.

<snip>

People who had two copies of the val-COMT gene were stoics. They withstood
significantly greater saline doses than other volunteers while rating the
resulting pain as less bothersome, Zubieta reports in Friday's edition of
the journal Science.

<snip>

A quarter of the U.S. population carries the ``stoic'' gene variation while
another quarter has the gene variant that makes them super-sensitive to
pain, Zubieta estimates.

<SNIP>

Pain response clearly depends on more than a single gene, Zubieta
cautioned. For example, in another study, he found women tolerate pain
better during the time of the menstrual cycle when estrogen levels are
highest.

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:59:01 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Peter Kaminski wrote:

> I probably missed some of the responses, but I note that "Rotinese" seems
> pretty well-established: <http://www.google.com/search?q=Rotinese>.
>
> Example: "... It is perhaps possible to determine by their accent in Malay
> who is a Kambera speaker, a Savunese, a Rotinese, Timorese, Balinese, etc.,
> but I have not checked ..."

Thank you!  I'm going to change the web page right now to "a Rotinese."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:13:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 7:34:45 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
>> No, they're too salty is what they are.
>>
>> lisa

> Nonsense! Ikura (salmon roe) is one of my favorite kinds of sushi.

<barf>

Karen,
fish-egg hater

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In a message dated 2/20/2003 4:06:54 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< I am unable to answer technical questions like this. Please address your
inquiries to Mr. Tom Ridge, c/o Homeland Security.

alyce
 >>

Thank you! Theo

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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 8:37:08 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>> Thursday, February 20, 2003, 6:21:16 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>> > Karen Kay wrote:
>> >> People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>> >> according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>> >> news.
>>
>> > I'm not convinced.  Not only have I read in <fact-based> places but also
>> > my <gut feeling> tells me that our bodies often tell us what kind of
>> > food is needed.  Maybe not every single day, but overall -- as in your
>> > body is missing whatever, and you start craving whatever after a while.
>>
>> Convinced of what? I certainly don't exclude what you're
>> mentioning.

> Not convinced that the best fuel isn't relevant.

You've lost me.

In any case, I think almost anything you can think of is relevant
to the consumption of food; it's a complicated subject. But very
few people eat only what will fuel their body the best and
nothing else.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:22:46 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 10:00:15 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
> Sorry to have a language question: what's the opposite of "Pax"
> Americana?  Bellum, belli, or bello Americana?

I think what you want is a nominative case noun.

I think bellum is accusative and belli is genitive. But I don't
know if bello is nominative. For some reason, I can't get to the
web right now, but you can check on the web to see how pax is
declined, and then bello (bellus?).

This is all from my freshman year in high school, which was...
nearly 40 years ago.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:42:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> > >Joanne Jemison wrote:
> > Welcome.
> >
> > -rashmi
>
> Don't bother, she unsubbed. :(

And I had her pegged as a stayer.  She really did seem like one of us
very quickly.  I'm sorry she left.  Maybe she'll come back.  Remember
how Myles was with us pretty briefly, then left, but then came back and
stayed for a long time before deserting again?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:45:21 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >Then again, those two men who lost it for their
> >team did look like total doofuses on that rail.  Maybe they were being
> >paid big bucks for doofusing their team to lose?
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> What was the question in all that?   I don't think any of it is
> rigged.   They don't have to rig anything.  They don't have to script
> anything.   They get many, many hours of camera footage.  They make a story
> out of it after-the-fact.

The question was whether any of y'all thought that the women's victory
might have been rigged.  I prefer to think of it the way you do -- that
they make the story after the fact.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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At 08:39 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, natalie wrote:
>bonniev wrote:
>
> > Or people could just raise their hands.    Betty and Larry.    The Wild
> > family.  Rashmi.   Adam.  BrPaul.   Love Judith and her Paul.   Lisa and
> > what's-her-name.   Sandra.  Natalie.  Bookrat. Heide and Alec.
>
>Why is JMW's name not on the list?

Because he has not said anything about coming.  Duh.

cwv

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:56:07 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> bonniev wrote:
> >
> > >Then again, those two men who lost it for their
> > >team did look like total doofuses on that rail.  Maybe they were being
> > >paid big bucks for doofusing their team to lose?
> > >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
> >
> > What was the question in all that?

PS:  I forgot to say in my earlier response that my question was the
sentence followed by a question mark.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:

> >Why is JMW's name not on the list?
>
> Because he has not said anything about coming.  Duh.

So you also are among the list literalists.  My implied question was why
has JMW not said he was coming.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:00:19 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Peter Kaminski wrote:

> Example: "... It is perhaps possible to determine by their accent in Malay
> who is a Kambera speaker, a Savunese, a Rotinese, Timorese, Balinese, etc.,
> but I have not checked ..."

Wait.  I spoke too soon.  Rotinese sounds like the name of the language
here.  That might not mean that a speaker of Rotinese is a Rotinese.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Peter Kaminski wrote:

> I probably missed some of the responses, but I note that "Rotinese" seems
> pretty well-established: <http://www.google.com/search?q=Rotinese>.

That's a good list of hits.  I haven't looked at most of them yet but
will do so.  Or maybe I'll put my students onto this task -- ask them to
help me figure out what the right word is for an individual who lives in
the land of Rotinese.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:16:26 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Karen Kay wrote:
>
>>  People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>>  according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>>  news.
>
>I'm not convinced.  Not only have I read in <fact-based> places but also
>my <gut feeling> tells me that our bodies often tell us what kind of
>food is needed.  Maybe not every single day, but overall -- as in your
>body is missing whatever, and you start craving whatever after a while.

Sure -- that's when you get pica, when people who are
mineral-deprived eat things like chalk and laundry starch (blech).

During both pregnancies, I had insane cravings for beans,
particularly refried beans. Dunno what exactly about them I wanted,
but maybe the B vitamins?

Someone once told me that a reliable test for dehydration was that if
Gatorade tastes good to you, you're dehydrated. I've never tried it
because I never buy Gatorade.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:18:06 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>  > No, they're too salty is what they are.
>>
>>  lisa
>
>Nonsense! Ikura (salmon roe) is one of my favorite kinds of sushi.

Mmm, and tobiko.

TJs had the shelf marked for their good golden caviar, but it was all
gone. Very frustrating. When they have it, Ben and I eat a lot of it
-- we both like soft-boiled eggs on toast with caviar on top.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:25:59 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> >I'm not convinced.  Not only have I read in <fact-based> places but also
> >my <gut feeling> tells me that our bodies often tell us what kind of
> >food is needed.  Maybe not every single day, but overall -- as in your
> >body is missing whatever, and you start craving whatever after a while.
>
> Sure -- that's when you get pica, when people who are
> mineral-deprived eat things like chalk and laundry starch (blech).

I've never thought of pica as <temporary>.  I've always thought of it as
life-long.  But what you say does make sense -- except that I haven't
associated it with chalk or laundry beach.  I've always associated it
with dirt.  Mississippi is one of the major places for dirt-eating, or
so I've read/heard.  I heard a second-hand account about how much
Mississippi dirt is mailed to people in Chicago to satisfy their
taste(?), need(?) for eating it.  Anyway, pica is big here.

> Someone once told me that a reliable test for dehydration was that if
> Gatorade tastes good to you, you're dehydrated. I've never tried it
> because I never buy Gatorade.

I've never really thought about Gatorade as tasting exactly <good>, but
I do keep it in my refrigerator in the summer and for sure chug it down
after cutting the grass.  I don't know whether it helps any more than
just plain water would, but I somehow feel that it does.  I normally do
both -- lots of water and some Gatorade -- when I've just come in from
cutting grass on a 100-degree day.  In fact, I do it mid-stream in this
house -- I come in between front and back yards and chug Gatorade and
water.  In my previous house, with a much smaller yard, I didn't do the
mid-stream thing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 21:30:12 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> > TJs had the shelf marked for their good golden caviar, but it was all
> > gone. Very frustrating. When they have it, Ben and I eat a lot of it
> > -- we both like soft-boiled eggs on toast with caviar on top.
>
> Sounds like a major yum. I *heart* eggs (and before anyone says anything, my
> cholesterol is fine, tyvm). The toast I don't eat much of any more, but eggs
> without toast is fine.

I *heart* eggs, but I *cringe* fish eggs in any form.  I've made myself
pretend to like them in Japan since I realize that that kind of sushi is
considered <the best> and since I didn't want to be insulting.  But in
this country I just say no -- whether to sushi fish eggs or to caviar.
(My saying no is usually simply ignoring the stuff, of course.)
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:00:15 -0800
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Subject: IMFTATL: Latin question
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Sorry to have a language question: what's the opposite of "Pax"
Americana?  Bellum, belli, or bello Americana?

Pete

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 22:21:15 -0500
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> TJs had the shelf marked for their good golden caviar, but it was all
> gone. Very frustrating. When they have it, Ben and I eat a lot of it
> -- we both like soft-boiled eggs on toast with caviar on top.

Sounds like a major yum. I *heart* eggs (and before anyone says anything, my
cholesterol is fine, tyvm). The toast I don't eat much of any more, but eggs
without toast is fine.

I can't wait till our TJ's opens. At least it's Coming Soon now on their web
site.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 20:58:53 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: culinary IMFTATL
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A friend of mine is desperately trying to locate a recipe he used to
have and lost -- a recipe by the Galloping Gourmet, for a mousse made
with unsweetened chocolate, topped with unsweetened whipped cream,
and the whole thing married together with a sweet wine.

Any of you gourmet types have such a recipe?

Janet

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 23:25:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 20, 2003, 10:58:53 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> A friend of mine is desperately trying to locate a recipe he used to
> have and lost -- a recipe by the Galloping Gourmet, for a mousse made
> with unsweetened chocolate, topped with unsweetened whipped cream,
> and the whole thing married together with a sweet wine.

Isn't this Graham Kerr? He has a web
presence--http://www.grahamkerr.com/ .

> Any of you gourmet types have such a recipe?

Sounds delish.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 20 23:50:13 2003
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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:08:14 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: today
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>At 08:17 PM 2/18/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>
>>There are a couple of movies l want to see:  Shanghai Knights
>>and Daredevil.  Maybe Kathie will be free on Saturday.
>>
>>Evelyn Duncan
>>brandykitt@aol.com
>>This account protected by an attack sheep.
>
>Daredevil sucked. Ben can't act for shit. Jennifer Garner is hot (so says
>my girl) but her part wasn't as big as it's advertised. There was no plot
>or character development. Characters just appeared on the screen, you had
>to figure out who they were. Basically it was one fight scene, lameass ones
>at that, after another.

I enjoyed Colin Farrell; that was about it. Jennifer Garner does
nothing for me, and those green contacts were just ridiculous.

Affleck is the latest victim of a phenomenon I've dubbed
Goldblumization. Scenario: Male star takes a few character roles in
which he is appealingly geeky although not conventionally attractive.
Scads of girl geeks get wet. Braino Hollywood exec says "Aha, a
leading man," gets him a personal trainer, a tanning bed, some
dentistry and a better haircut, and starts putting him up as romantic
and/or action leads -- at which point he is no longer even slightly
interesting. (See also: Richard Dreyfus, and probably Jim Carrey
next.)

Janet

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:14:02 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>  > I experience Stone Mountain Ice Cream for the first time
>>  today.   Yum!  Chocolate and strawberries.
>
>Dreamery ice cream was on sale a while back, so I bought their
>version of Cherry Garcia. Not as good.

Just got back from TJ's with a half gallon of Double Rainbow french
vanilla, which is absolutely the best vanilla ice cream I've ever
tasted.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 20 Feb 2003 19:10:20 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>At 12:44 PM 2/19/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Wednesday, February 19, 2003, 12:33:42 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
>>  > Yes. caffeine has been hard for me to give up.
>>
>>Have you tried green tea? It has caffeine, but it seems to be
>>easier to handle for a lot of people.
>>
>>Karen,
>>Not a practical-minded weasel
>
>Tea in general has more caffeine than coffee, or so I've heard. This is
>just a guess but, maybe it's easier because it's not as acidic. I do not
>like tea so I really shouldn't be speaking on this subject.
>
>Sort of related... I recently overheard a conversation wherein one
>participant warned the other that green tea stains your teeth worse than
>regular tea and/or coffee.

I've been through a few phases, probably hormonal, in which the
acidity of coffee makes me nauseated, so I switch to tea. I've
noticed that if that goes on for more than a month or two the color
of my teeth is noticeably affected.

Janet

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:25:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:05:55 AM, Peter Kaminski wrote:

> Karen Kay writes,

>>I think what you want is a nominative case noun.

> If I read it correctly, then it's "belli":
> <http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/classics/latin/latin4.htm>.

Bellum. "Bellum, war, is declined as follows: bellum, belli,
bello, bellum, bello"  Nominative, genitive, dative, accusative,
uhhhhh... I forget.

What I was looking for, I finally found when I could get to the
web again: http://www.nd.edu/~archives/latgramm.htm .

Ann Borkin or Espen know best, but I think Bello Americana would
be War of America the same Pax Americana would be Peace of
America.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 00:33:46 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:25:57 AM, Karen Kay wrote:
> Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:05:55 AM, Peter Kaminski wrote:

>> Karen Kay writes,

>>>I think what you want is a nominative case noun.

>> If I read it correctly, then it's "belli":
>> <http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/classics/latin/latin4.htm>.

> Bellum. "Bellum, war, is declined as follows: bellum, belli,
> bello, bellum, bello"  Nominative, genitive, dative, accusative,
> uhhhhh... I forget.

My guess is vocative.

Karen

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Karen Kay writes,

>I think what you want is a nominative case noun.

If I read it correctly, then it's "belli":
<http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/classics/latin/latin4.htm>.

Pete

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:18:43 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: mews from Namibia
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-02-20 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
= > Look.  We're going to go.  We're going to go somewhere.  If we're
= > lucky the political situation in Namibia will not degenerate into
= > one like Zimbabwe.  Where would you rather we go?  Just which
= > country meets your unstated criteria that we not go to some fad
= > country.
=
= You speak like somebody's stopping you ... Go where you wish ... puh!

No one's stopping us.  It's just that I crave your approval
(mostly because if you disapprove, you're not likely to come
along).

And, don't think I didn't notice that you didn't answer the
question.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:01:08 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Natalie Maynor:
= steph wrote:
= > Oo!  Now you've done it.  This is one of those situations you're
= > supposed to keep quiet about.
=
= But it's too late to keep quiet about it.  She told us about it a long
= time ago.
=

Yabbut, you're not supposed to bring it up at a time like this.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:15:28 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ebay as Big Brother
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clyde w. voigtlander:
= At 03:05 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
=
= >Not showing up on Ebay strikes me as suspicious. Everybody's doing
= >it, so why not you?
=
= 1.  I have nothing I particularly want to sell at auction.
=
= 2.  There is nothing I particularly want to buy at auction.
=

Do you think most of the new stuff that's there has fallen off
the back of a truck, or as someone told me, was bought in bulk
from the manufacturer and imported under the laundry.

http://shorl.com/hineprurastege

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Karen Kay wrote:

> >> >> People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
                                                                ^^^
> >> >> according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

> >> > I'm not convinced.  Not only have I read in <fact-based> places but also

> >> Convinced of what? I certainly don't exclude what you're

> > Not convinced that the best fuel isn't relevant.
>
> You've lost me.

See my ^^^^ in what you wrote above.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> Sorry to have a language question: what's the opposite of "Pax"
> Americana?  Bellum, belli, or bello Americana?

Bellum.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:40:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I think bellum is accusative and belli is genitive. But I don't

Isn't -um also nominative in that declension?  But have we decided that
bellum is the right word for the contrast with pax?  Obviously it is in
ways, of course.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 05:50:52 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Natalie Maynor wrote:


> I've never thought of pica as <temporary>.  I've always thought of it as
> life-long.  But what you say does make sense -- except that I haven't
> associated it with chalk or laundry beach.  I've always associated it
> with dirt.  Mississippi is one of the major places for dirt-eating, or
> so I've read/heard.  I heard a second-hand account about how much
> Mississippi dirt is mailed to people in Chicago to satisfy their
> taste(?), need(?) for eating it.  Anyway, pica is big here.


        It's life-long if you live your entire life in poverty.  It
is more typical for it to show up just during pregnancy or
adolescence.

        For some reason, pica has always impressed me as very <low
class>, although I realize it is a physical thing.  Sort of
like ringworm, I guess.


>
> I've never really thought about Gatorade as tasting exactly <good>, but
> I do keep it in my refrigerator in the summer and for sure chug it down
> after cutting the grass.  I don't know whether it helps any more than
> just plain water would, but I somehow feel that it does.  I normally do
> both -- lots of water and some Gatorade -- when I've just come in from
> cutting grass on a 100-degree day.  In fact, I do it mid-stream in this
> house -- I come in between front and back yards and chug Gatorade and
> water.  In my previous house, with a much smaller yard, I didn't do the
> mid-stream thing.
>


        I've read that unless you are doing a very strenuous workout,
the net effect of Gatorade is that it is bad for you because
of all the sugar.  Regular workouts don't deplete the body
of enough electrolytes to make a difference.  Water or a
beer seem to do the trick for me after cutting the grass.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 06:11:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         For some reason, pica has always impressed me as very <low
> class>, although I realize it is a physical thing.  Sort of
> like ringworm, I guess.

Here it seems to be associated with African Americans.  I had thought
that it was a cultural thing -- that children might have been introduced
to dirt early in life and continued the taste for it, although at some
point I learned about the mineral thing -- about the minerals the body
was seeking and that some dirt is <better> than other dirt, which is
supposedly why people mail Mississippi dirt to other places -- that
Mississippi dirt is more <nutritious>.

What you say about class could be related, of course, because of the
historical discrimination against African Americans.  I haven't heard
much about pica in a long time.  I'm guessing it may be on the decline.

>         I've read that unless you are doing a very strenuous workout,
> the net effect of Gatorade is that it is bad for you because
> of all the sugar.  Regular workouts don't deplete the body
> of enough electrolytes to make a difference.  Water or a
> beer seem to do the trick for me after cutting the grass.

In extremely hot weather I find that cutting the grass (at this house,
not at my former house with its smaller yard) is what I'd call a pretty
strenuous workout from the pov of how much sweat is involved.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <maynor@ra.msstate.edu>
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I sent Lisa's comments about food in Spain to my uncle, who lives
there, to see what he had to say about portion size and olive oil.
Here's what he said:

> Portions are enormous here.  I love the olive oil.
> I can drink it.  I don't. But could.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:25:16 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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So do y'all think it was Janet who smuggled it in?  Her denial didn't
sound very convincing.  I'm glad that there doesn't seem to be much of
all that alliance-building stuff so far, or at least not in the women's
tribe.  I'd rather see votes go according to what people were really
thinking personally about other people.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I heard at lunch a few days ago that Daniel has malaria.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: acadiafest
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>Betty can ask for a personal viewing of the pompom hat!  (Or have I got
>my inns mixed up?)
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

No, you got your Inns right.   But, like I said, if Betty tries to change
the reservation from three nights to two nights, she will be out of
luck.  They will refund her deposit, charge her $20, and tell her to go
elsewhere.   If she shows up with a three night reservation and announces
that she can only stay two, they will explain that she is responsible for
paying for that third night up front.  But they will refund her money if
they should happen to rerent the room for that one night.


    --bonniev

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:29:07 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> I heard at lunch a few days ago that Daniel has malaria.

Yes:
http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/story.hts/ae/tv/1779684

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 07:30:16 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

>   If she shows up with a three night reservation and announces
> that she can only stay two, they will explain that she is responsible for
> paying for that third night up front.

What about if they kick her out for bad behavior?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: The Granola Bar
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:30:12 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>So do y'all think it was Janet who smuggled it in?  Her denial didn't
>sound very convincing.  I'm glad that there doesn't seem to be much of
>all that alliance-building stuff so far, or at least not in the women's
>tribe.

I think the three hotties (Shawna, Heidi, and Jenna) have formed an alliance
-- possibly with Jean. They are the four that voted Janet out.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 07:35:03 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: painful WLM
In-Reply-To: <a05200f09ba7b44a8f0f2@[67.118.125.98]>
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>Pain response clearly depends on more than a single gene, Zubieta
>cautioned. For example, in another study, he found women tolerate pain
>better during the time of the menstrual cycle when estrogen levels are
>highest.

I wonder if it also varies by the type of pain.  I tolerate most pain quite
well from dental pain to muscle pain to sprains and the like.   But I do
not tolerate headaches well at all.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 07:39:45 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>From: steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM>
>Natalie Maynor:
>= steph wrote:
>= > Oo!  Now you've done it.  This is one of those situations you're
>= > supposed to keep quiet about.
>=
>= But it's too late to keep quiet about it.  She told us about it a long
>= time ago.
>
>Yabbut, you're not supposed to bring it up at a time like this.

A time like what?


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 07:41:44 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: culinary IMFTATL
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:38:59 -0500
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>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 10:58:53 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> > A friend of mine is desperately trying to locate a recipe he used to
> > have and lost -- a recipe by the Galloping Gourmet, for a mousse made
> > with unsweetened chocolate, topped with unsweetened whipped cream,
> > and the whole thing married together with a sweet wine.

You know, I think I might have one of his cookbooks...I know I used to. I'll
look later. If I forget, remind me.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 07:54:35 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: The Granola Bar
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>So do y'all think it was Janet who smuggled it in?  Her denial didn't
>sound very convincing.  I'm glad that there doesn't seem to be much of
>all that alliance-building stuff so far, or at least not in the women's
>tribe.  I'd rather see votes go according to what people were really
>thinking personally about other people.   -- Natalie

I think the producers threw that granola bar in the box just to set the
women against each other.  I wonder why none of them thought of that.   I
also think that I would have booted the hell off the river the stupid woman
who thinks the immunity idol is a real idol and will bring them doom
because we are to "put no gods before me".   Jeez.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 07:55:04 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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I thought y'all might enjoy seeing this.

BrP


-------------------------------------------------
Inaugural Lecture on Dante by New Special Collections Research Center Director
Dupont
On Thursday, March 6 at 4:00 p.m., Syracuse University Library will present an
inaugural lecture by the new Director of the Special Collections Research Center,
Christian Yves Dupont.
Titled "Bringing Dante to America: Book Hunting and Bibliography in the Golden Age,"
Dupont's lecture will examine and compare the formation of the nation's three largest
Dante collections at Harvard, Cornell, and Notre Dame during the latter part of the
nineteenth century, drawing lessons from their histories for libraries today. Dupont was
formerly Curator of Special Collections and Subject Liaison for Italian Studies at Notre
Dame, where he also earned a doctorate. He has published and lectured in both
English and Italian on Dante collecting, and has also curated rare book exhibitions
featuring the poet's works.
The lecture will be held in the 1916 Room on the first floor of E.S. Bird Library, and will
be followed by a reception hosted by the Syracuse University Library Associates. All are
welcome to attend.
For further information, please call 443-9759.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 07:56:18 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:53:33 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:18:19 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > You'd think if I was going to crave something it  would at
> > least be something I liked.
>
>I believe Janet posted on this topic recently...

A friend of mine recently told me that she went out for sushi and had a
craving for sea urchin -- which she despises. She ordered it anyway, and
still despised it, yet was left with the feeling that she had eaten exactly
what her body needed.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 07:57:49 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
In-Reply-To: <3E5629E8.BC3BD40F@maynor.net>
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>bonniev wrote:
> >   If she shows up with a three night reservation and announces
> > that she can only stay two, they will explain that she is responsible for
> > paying for that third night up front.
>
>What about if they kick her out for bad behavior?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

They definitely keep her money in that case and charge any damages to the
room on her credit card.


    --bonniev

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: The Granola Bar
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 08:55:39 -0500
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>From: bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM>
>I think the producers threw that granola bar in the box just to set the
>women against each other.  I wonder why none of them thought of that

I thought of that. I was thinking it would be funny if they cut over to the
men's camp and they were bickering about the same thing. I bet they would
have eaten it, though.

.   I
>also think that I would have booted the hell off the river the stupid woman
>who thinks the immunity idol is a real idol and will bring them doom
>because we are to "put no gods before me".   Jeez.

I know, and it's a shame because before that, and before the incident with
The Hand, I really liked her. Strong and smart and serious, but what a
bee-atch.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 07:59:25 2003
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
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At 08:57 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, natalie wrote:
>  My implied question was why
>has JMW not said he was coming.

Not into fact-based reasoning, I see.  But I don't know why <anyone> has
not said <anything>.

cwv

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 07:16 PM 2/20/2003 -0800, janet wrote:

>Someone once told me that a reliable test for dehydration was that if
>Gatorade tastes good to you, you're dehydrated. I've never tried it
>because I never buy Gatorade.

More likely, it means that your taste buds are misfiring.

cwv
"Of course it tastes like sweat---that's what it is replacing."

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:04:17 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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             lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM on Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 08:37:00AM -0500
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Marie Ascher:
= >From: steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM>
= >Natalie Maynor:
= >= steph wrote:
= >= > Oo!  Now you've done it.  This is one of those situations you're
= >= > supposed to keep quiet about.
= >=
= >= But it's too late to keep quiet about it.  She told us about it a long
= >= time ago.
= >
= >Yabbut, you're not supposed to bring it up at a time like this.
=
= A time like what?
=

Have you been taking lessons from your listmates?  You're not
supposed to mention you know what when people who are afraid of
heights are going you know where.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 08:22:06 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:19:21 -0500
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>From: steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM>
>= >Yabbut, you're not supposed to bring it up at a time like this.
>=
>= A time like what?
>=
>Have you been taking lessons from your listmates?  You're not
>supposed to mention you know what when people who are afraid of
>heights are going you know where.

I wasn't bringing it up to be cruel if that's what you mean. I don't have
any phobias (well, maybe a little lacto-), so maybe I'm insensitive, but I
was jes sayin' that it's not a completely unfounded fear. One does need to
be careful, people have fallen.

I do think Adam should see Acadia. But if he's not comfortable with the
cliffs, there are definitely places he won't want to go. Otter Cliffs would
not be fun for him. Thunder Hole might make him dizzy. Etc.

Marie


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 08:44:33 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>I do think Adam should see Acadia. But if he's not comfortable with the
>cliffs, there are definitely places he won't want to go. Otter Cliffs would
>not be fun for him. Thunder Hole might make him dizzy. Etc.
>Marie

Adam could walk across the sand bar at low tide to Bar Island.   No heights
involved there.   By the way, Acadia National Park now owns all of Bar
Island.  They bought the one private home on the island, most recently
owned by Jack Perkins of A&E Biography fame.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 08:51:55 2003
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:36:45 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 02:30 PM 2/20/2003 -0800, you wrote:

>>No I didn't. I simply told the story of what happened to my brother with
>>the shovel. And you weren't checking, you were picking.
>
>It's what she does.  It's her job!
>
>Betty

Yes, I know. I just didn't feel like being on her work crew yesterday.
Wanna guess what her response to this is going to be? No? Me neither. It's
like shooting fish in a barrel.

lisa

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:39:38 -0500
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 04:32 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:15:53 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>
>I thought we'd talked about supertasters here before. They taste
>things normal people don't. Broccoli is one of the tests. If you
>like broccoli, you're not a supertaster. I forget if they have
>more tastebuds or if they are merely more sensitive.
>
>Karen

Mostly likely I was not on The List(tm) when the super taster discussion
took place.

I have heard there are people who generally do no like broccoli because it
tastes different to them but I had no idea it was linked to being a super
taster. So there, I learned something. Good for me!

lisa

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 04:32 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:18:19 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > You'd think if I was going to crave something it  would at
> > least be something I liked.
>
>I believe Janet posted on this topic recently...
>
>Karen

Maybe. I don't remember it but that doesn't mean much. I don't read every
post and even those I do read I don't always remember.

lisa

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 04:34 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:22:43 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > At 03:29 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 2:39:30 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> >> > Tea in general has more caffeine than coffee, or so I've heard.
> >>
> >>You are wrong.
> >>
> >>http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/19991108.html
>
> > Did you know this before you found this site?
>
>Yes. I looked into this when I started drinking green tea 30
>years ago.
>
> >> > Sort of related... I recently overheard a conversation wherein one
> >> > participant warned the other that green tea stains your teeth worse than
> >> > regular tea and/or coffee.
> >>
> >>Don't think so.
> >>
> >>Karen
>
> > Couldn't find a site to back it up though?
>
>I didn't look. I will challenge you to find support for your
>view, though, if you like.
>
>Karen

Nope, it's just something I heard. It sounded at least possible but I don't
really give a shit 'cause I don't like and therefore do not drink tea,
green or otherwise.

lisa

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Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 04:37 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:23:48 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>
>No, you write so badly so much of the time, I'm never quite sure
>what you mean. I was checking.
>
>Karen

Yeah that's kinda scary, isn't it?

lisa

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Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 05:14 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 5:08:13 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> >> No, you write so badly so much of the time, I'm never quite sure
> >> what you mean. I was checking.
>
> > Lisa's story was clearly written and had no hidden implications. Why do
> > you go on like this? It is booooring.
>
>Because I don't like it when people tell me what my motives are.
>I don't do that to other people, I ask. I expect the same courtesy.
>
>Karen

<cough> <cough> bullshit <cough> <cough>.

lisa
hope that was clear.

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Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 06:08 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > No, you write so badly so much of the time, I'm never quite sure
> > what you mean. I was checking.
>
>Lisa's story was clearly written and had no hidden implications. Why do
>you go on like this? It is booooring.
>
>alyce

She's bored and I'm an easy, easy target. It's ok though, I do not mind.
Let her have her fun.

lisa

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Karen Kay writes,

>I think Bello Americana would be War of America the same Pax Americana
>would be Peace of America.

Caesar's Gallic War is called "de bello Gallico," so that sounds right.

Pete

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Peter Kaminski wrote:
> Caesar's Gallic War is called "de bello Gallico," so that sounds right.

In today's National Review, it says we are engaged in a "bellum
interruptum," which sounds wrong to me.

alyce

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At 12:33 AM 2/21/2003 -0600, Karen wrote:

>Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:25:57 AM, Karen Kay wrote:
> > Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:05:55 AM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> >> Karen Kay writes,
>
> >>>I think what you want is a nominative case noun.
>
> >> If I read it correctly, then it's "belli":
> >> <http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/classics/latin/latin4.htm>.
>
> > Bellum. "Bellum, war, is declined as follows: bellum, belli,
> > bello, bellum, bello"  Nominative, genitive, dative, accusative,
> > uhhhhh... I forget.
>
>My guess is vocative.
>
>Karen

ablative.

--Elaine

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At 06:57 AM 2/21/2003 -0800, pete wrote:
>Karen Kay writes,
>
>>I think Bello Americana would be War of America the same Pax Americana
>>would be Peace of America.
>
>Caesar's Gallic War is called "de bello Gallico," so that sounds right.

Sid, or Julius?

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 09:19 AM 2/21/2003 -0500, marie wrote:

>I wasn't bringing it up to be cruel if that's what you mean. I don't have
>any phobias (well, maybe a little lacto-), so maybe I'm insensitive, but I
>was jes sayin' that it's not a completely unfounded fear. One does need to
>be careful, people have fallen.

Every year, in fact.

>I do think Adam should see Acadia. But if he's not comfortable with the
>cliffs, there are definitely places he won't want to go.

There certainly are beautiful places in ANP that don't involve standing at
an edge or hiking precipitious trails.

cwv

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:09:18 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 05:41 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > This observation was made at some of the outdoor cafes we went to. I'm not
> > sure if they were serving American sized portions or if that was the norm.
>
>I do know that the Spanish seem to love to eat.  Were you on a tour?  If
>so, you might not have been eating at <normal> Spanish restaurants -- as
>in where the locals would be more likely to go.  Also, it would probably
>mean that you were eating at weird (to the Spanish) times.  Maybe they
>served American-sized portions at those early hours.  I could never make
>it living in Spain.  The idea of eating dinner at 11 p.m. (in cities --
>it's early in small towns -- as early as 10) turns me off, though I've
>managed to adapt when I needed to.

Yes, I was on a tour. The meals on the tour were definitely different than
the ones we had on our own.

When we weren't being fed by the tour the eating times were definitely a
struggle . The few places we could find to feed us earlier than 10-11 also
had different menus. Using my Italian I was able to decipher most of what
was listed on the menus in Spanish. When we were given menus in English I
found a lot of things were missing.

In one place we ate, with the tour, they gave us menus with hamburgers and
chicken sandwiches listed on them. Just about everyone on the tour at ate
American food. I had calamari and my mother had fried smelts which, though
listed no where for us to see were available.

> > One horrifying aspect of Spain was the fact every dish I ordered came
> > served in what looked like durablend motor oil. They called it olive oil
> > but I'm pretty sure I could have used the stuff in my car.
>
>But supposedly a Mediterranean diet makes one live longer.  Suck in that
>Durablend and live.

Yes, it is good for you, I've seen many sources telling me so. I even like
the taste of the thick, cloudy stuff I brought back. It has a great, deep
flavor and I cherish it. However I also limit the amount I use.

>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

lisa

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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On Friday, February 21, 2003 at 0:25, Karen Kay wrote:

> Bellum. "Bellum, war, is declined as follows: bellum, belli,
> bello, bellum, bello"  Nominative, genitive, dative, accusative,
> uhhhhh... I forget.

...Vocative, Ablative.
"Never Go Down A Volcano Alone."
Bellum, belli, bello, bellum, bellum, bello.

Jeeze - 1966. I can't believe I still remember it.

Tony H.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:22:09 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Tony Harminc wrote:
>
> Jeeze - 1966. I can't believe I still remember it.

Jeeze - 1949 and I can well believe that I remember almost nothing. I do
know hic haec hoc, though.

alyce

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM>
>There certainly are beautiful places in ANP that don't involve standing at
>an edge or hiking precipitious trails.

Of course. A walk around Jordan Pond comes to mind.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________

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>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
>In today's National Review, it says we are engaged in a "bellum
>interruptum," which sounds wrong to me.

bellus interruptus?

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:24:06 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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At 07:17 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>From: Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>Where should we make reservations? What day is the fest?
>>Who all are going? etc etc
>
>You know, if there's a war going on, and I can't go to Spain (and Morocco)
>in July as planned, I plan to show up in Maine with my sleeping bag...
>
>Marie

I DEFINITELY would not go to Morocco!

We went as a side tour and I was scared to death most of the time. After we
returned our main tour guide asked us how it was. Turns out after 9/11
they'd suspended the tour and were the second group to go since they resumed.

lisa

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:35:13 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: report from NYC
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 5:32:46 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:

>> >> >> People eat according to what their tastebuds tell them, not
>                                                                 ^^^
>> >> >> according to what constitutes the best fuel. But that's hardly
>         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

>> >> > I'm not convinced.  Not only have I read in <fact-based> places but also

>> >> Convinced of what? I certainly don't exclude what you're

>> > Not convinced that the best fuel isn't relevant.
>>
>> You've lost me.

> See my ^^^^ in what you wrote above.

But cravings aren't necessarily for the best fuel. As Lisa noted,
if she was craving potassium, kiwi would have been a better
source.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:37:15 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 5:50:52 AM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>         I've read that unless you are doing a very strenuous workout,
> the net effect of Gatorade is that it is bad for you because
> of all the sugar.

I don't doubt this.

>   Regular workouts don't deplete the body
> of enough electrolytes to make a difference.  Water or a
> beer seem to do the trick for me after cutting the grass.

With all due respect, you don't live where it's hot enough to
make a difference. When I first moved here, I was dehydrated all
the time.

Karen

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: IMFTATL: Latin question
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>Tony Harminc wrote:
> > Jeeze - 1966. I can't believe I still remember it.
>
>Jeeze - 1949 and I can well believe that I remember almost nothing. I do
>know hic haec hoc, though.
>alyce

1959.  I remember Tu Tui Tibi Te Te    And I remember that all Gaul is
divided into three parts.  And something about Hannibal coming over the
mountains with his elephants.


    --bonniev

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Friday, February 21, 2003, 8:42:55 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:

> At 04:34 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 4:22:43 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>> > At 03:29 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>> >>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 2:39:30 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>> >> > Tea in general has more caffeine than coffee, or so I've heard.
>> >>
>> >>You are wrong.
>> >>
>> >>http://ask.yahoo.com/ask/19991108.html
>>
>> > Did you know this before you found this site?
>>
>>Yes. I looked into this when I started drinking green tea 30
>>years ago.
>>
>> >> > Sort of related... I recently overheard a conversation wherein one
>> >> > participant warned the other that green tea stains your teeth worse than
>> >> > regular tea and/or coffee.
>> >>
>> >>Don't think so.
>> >>
>> >>Karen
>>
>> > Couldn't find a site to back it up though?
>>
>>I didn't look. I will challenge you to find support for your
>>view, though, if you like.
>>
>>Karen

> Nope, it's just something I heard. It sounded at least possible but I don't
> really give a shit 'cause I don't like and therefore do not drink tea,
> green or otherwise.

I'm going by my white porcelain teapots.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 10:49:12 2003
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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
> >  My implied question was why
> >has JMW not said he was coming.
>
> Not into fact-based reasoning, I see.  But I don't know why <anyone> has
> not said <anything>.

But my question was not addressed to you specifically.  I think there's
an answer out there in Wordsland.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Friday, February 21, 2003, 8:47:39 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> She's bored and I'm an easy, easy target. It's ok though, I do not mind.
> Let her have her fun.

Target?! You make a target out of me when you shoot me down for
motives you impute to me without checking.

Karen

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bonniev wrote:

> also think that I would have booted the hell off the river the stupid woman
> who thinks the immunity idol is a real idol and will bring them doom
> because we are to "put no gods before me".   Jeez.

Yes.  I think we're beginning to see that this group includes some real
weirdos.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Friday, February 21, 2003, 8:57:02 AM, Peter Kaminski wrote:

> Karen Kay writes,

>>I think Bello Americana would be War of America the same Pax Americana
>>would be Peace of America.

> Caesar's Gallic War is called "de bello Gallico," so that sounds right.

Uh, no. De takes dative case. Bello is dative

I must have been tired--I thought I wrote bellum.

Karen

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Marie Ascher wrote:

> I do think Adam should see Acadia. But if he's not comfortable with the
> cliffs, there are definitely places he won't want to go. Otter Cliffs would
> not be fun for him. Thunder Hole might make him dizzy. Etc.

I hadn't been thinking of Acadiafest as centered on <expeditions>.  Most
of our fests have involved more <hanging out> than <exploring>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Friday, February 21, 2003, 9:01:05 AM, alyce cresap wrote:

> Peter Kaminski wrote:
>> Caesar's Gallic War is called "de bello Gallico," so that sounds right.

> In today's National Review, it says we are engaged in a "bellum
> interruptum," which sounds wrong to me.

Interruptus? I don't know.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 10:52:31 -0600
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 9:09:30 AM, Elaine M Brennan wrote:

> At 12:33 AM 2/21/2003 -0600, Karen wrote:

>>Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:25:57 AM, Karen Kay wrote:
>> > Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:05:55 AM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
>>
>> >> Karen Kay writes,
>>
>> >>>I think what you want is a nominative case noun.
>>
>> >> If I read it correctly, then it's "belli":
>> >> <http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/classics/latin/latin4.htm>.
>>
>> > Bellum. "Bellum, war, is declined as follows: bellum, belli,
>> > bello, bellum, bello"  Nominative, genitive, dative, accusative,
>> > uhhhhh... I forget.
>>
>>My guess is vocative.
>>
>>Karen

> ablative.

Thank you! I forgot all about ablative!!

Jeeze. I recognize the name, but I don't remember what it means
any more.

Karen

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Friday, February 21, 2003, 9:22:09 AM, alyce cresap wrote:

> Tony Harminc wrote:
>>
>> Jeeze - 1966. I can't believe I still remember it.

> Jeeze - 1949 and I can well believe that I remember almost nothing. I do
> know hic haec hoc, though.

huius huius huius!

Karen

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alyce cresap wrote:

> know hic haec hoc, though.

Me too, although it wasn't really from the hs Latin I took.  It was from
early childhood.  For some reason my parents used to launch into that
one at times for no particular reason.  That and agricola.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:56:18 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Marie Ascher:
= >From: steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM>
= >= >Yabbut, you're not supposed to bring it up at a time like this.
= >=
= >= A time like what?
= >=
= >Have you been taking lessons from your listmates?  You're not
= >supposed to mention you know what when people who are afraid of
= >heights are going you know where.
=
= I wasn't bringing it up to be cruel if that's what you mean. I don't have

I was trying to mention it in a jab to the ribs kind of way, but
that kind of failed.  I definitely think Adam would enjoy himself
as long as he stays away from the cliffs, but he's not really
going to have the problem of falling off them then, is he.

Anyway.

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bonniev wrote:

    And I remember that all Gaul is
> divided into three parts.

Omnia Gallia in tres partes divisa est. (I think.)

> And something about Hannibal coming over the
> mountains with his elephants.

I don't think we did Hannibal. I remember something very long about
Aeneas, though.

alyce

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lisa alfieri wrote:

> We went as a side tour and I was scared to death most of the time. After we
> returned our main tour guide asked us how it was. Turns out after 9/11
> they'd suspended the tour and were the second group to go since they resumed.

How did it seem scary?  Iow, what did you notice about the behavior
there?  Morocco used to be known as generally <looser> than many Arab
countries.  I have done things like drink gin-and-tonics happily in
Morocco during Ramadan.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:16:32 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: list southerners?
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This showed up on my small publishers' list. Comments?

For those of you who are thinking about writing or publishing a Southern
novel and want some authentic color. ...  (I thought I was a true Southerner
until I got to number 22!)


  1. Only a true Southerner knows the difference between a hissie fit and a
conniption, and that you don't "HAVE" them, you "PITCH" them.

  2. Only a true Southerner knows how many fish, collard greens, turnip
greens, peas, beans, etc. make up "a mess."

  3. Only a true Southerner can show or point out to you the general direction
of "yonder."

  4. Only a true Southerner knows exactly how long "directly" is ‹ "Going to
town, be back directly.

  5. All true Southerners, even babies, know that "Gimme some sugar" is not a
request for the white, granular sweet substance  that sits in a pretty little
bowl on the middle of the table.

  6. All true Southerners know exactly when "by and by" is. They might not use
the term, but they know the concept well.

  7. Only a true Southerner knows instinctively that the best gesture of
solace for a neighbor who's got trouble is a plate of hot fried chicken and a
big bowl of cold potato salad. (If the neighbor's trouble is a real crisis,
they also know to add a large banana puddin'!).

  8. Only true Southerners grow up knowing the difference between "right near"
and "a right far piece." They also know that "just down the road" can be 1
mile or 20.

  9. Only a true Southerner both knows and understands the difference between
a redneck, a good ol' boy and po' white trash.

10. No true Southerner would ever assume that the car with the flashing turn
signal is actually going to make a turn.

11. A true Southerner knows that "fixin'" can be used as a noun, a verb or an
adverb.

12. Only a true Southerner knows that the term "booger" can be a resident of
the nose, a descriptive, as in "that ol' booger," a
first name or something that jumps out at you in the dark and scares you
senseless.

13. Only true Southerners make friends while standing in lines. We don't do
"queues,"  we do "lines," and when we're "in line," we talk to everybody!

14. Put 100 true Southerners in a room and half of them will discover they're
related, even if only by marriage.

15. True Southerners never refer to one person as "y'all."

16. True Southerners know grits come from corn and how to eat them.

17. Every true Southerner knows tomatoes with eggs, bacon, grits, and coffee
are perfectly wonderful; that redeye gravy is also a breakfast food; and that
fried green tomatoes are not a breakfast food.

18. When you hear someone say, "Well, I caught myself  lookin' .. ," you know
you are in the presence of a genuine Southerner!

19. Only true Southerners say "sweet tea" and "sweet milk." Sweet tea indi
cates the need for sugar and lots of it‹ we do not like our tea
unsweetened. "Sweet milk" means you don't want buttermilk.

20. A true Southerner knows that if you are with a "couple" of friends you,
you could be with 2 or 10. The number doesn't matter.

21 A true Southerner knows there's a difference between chili which you put
on your hotdog and chili beans which you eat with a spoon.

22. And a true Southerner knows you don't scream obscenities at little old
ladies who drive 30 MPH on the freeway. You just say, "Bless her heart" and
go your own way.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 11:20:33 2003
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 09:19:24 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: painful WLM
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>  >Pain response clearly depends on more than a single gene, Zubieta
>>cautioned. For example, in another study, he found women tolerate pain
>>better during the time of the menstrual cycle when estrogen levels are
>>highest.
>
>I wonder if it also varies by the type of pain.  I tolerate most pain quite
>well from dental pain to muscle pain to sprains and the like.   But I do
>not tolerate headaches well at all.

I think there's a difference, too, between short-duration and
long-duration pain. The pain processing techniques I teach are very
good at ameliorating short-duration pain; they're pretty useless with
chronic or long-duration pain.

Janet

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
Subject: Re: introduction
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At 08:11 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > >Joanne Jemison wrote:
> > Welcome.
> >
> > -rashmi
>
>Don't bother, she unsubbed. :(
>
>--Adam
>adamh1@attbi.com

We have to stop chasing people away. Maybe we need to give toasters or
magnets with a subscription.


alec

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From: "Espen S. Ore" <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
Subject: Skiing in the sun
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And soon there will be gifs. The sun is high enough now so that we can feel the heat but still the snow wqas very good. This was a very good day to take a day off!

Espen

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-- Fatalities feared after refueling accident sparks huge fire at Staten
Island, New York, fuel storage facility, police say.
Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com /AOL Keyword: CNN for the latest news.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 11:58:47 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>I hadn't been thinking of Acadiafest as centered on <expeditions>.  Most
>of our fests have involved more <hanging out> than <exploring>.

The fests that I attended included some tourist-like activities -- i.e.
Kennywood during Wordstock, going to the top of the CN Tower during
Torondezvous, and a trip to Ojai during Missionfest. I can't imagine going
to Bar Harbor and not exploring Acadia.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Feels like 1996...
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At 10:48 AM 2/21/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Friday, February 21, 2003, 8:47:39 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > She's bored and I'm an easy, easy target. It's ok though, I do not mind.
> > Let her have her fun.
>
>Target?! You make a target out of me when you shoot me down for
>motives you impute to me without checking.
>
>Karen

Uh Karen, you wish.

lisa

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Betty Clark wrote:
>
> -- Fatalities feared after refueling accident sparks huge fire at Staten
> Island, New York, fuel storage facility, police say.
> Watch CNN or log on to http://CNN.com /AOL Keyword: CNN for the latest news.

Two fatalities. One injury. It was an accident. I really hate CNN. They
keep raising the spectre of an attack by terrorists when they know
damned well it was an industrial accident. "Jittery New Yorkers shaken
by explosion. Unsure if it was an accident or an attack." Irresponsible
idiots.

alyce
--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:19:22 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:16:17 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:

> At 10:48 AM 2/21/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Friday, February 21, 2003, 8:47:39 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>> > She's bored and I'm an easy, easy target. It's ok though, I do not mind.
>> > Let her have her fun.
>>
>>Target?! You make a target out of me when you shoot me down for
>>motives you impute to me without checking.
>>
>>Karen

> Uh Karen, you wish.

I wish many things. This is not one of them.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 12:26:39 2003
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:23:32 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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It is now 62F. Last week at this time it was around zero.
Strange happenings. But ice and snow tomorrow through Monday. I do hope
that there is not a driving problem on Monday as I really want to be
done with my CT scan once and for all.
--
alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 12:27:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:23:32 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> It is now 62F. Last week at this time it was around zero.
> Strange happenings. But ice and snow tomorrow through Monday. I do hope
> that there is not a driving problem on Monday as I really want to be
> done with my CT scan once and for all.

I hope so. Are you feeling better? You sound better.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 12:30:45 2003
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wow  I thought we were doing good at 52.  When I'm on camous I can always tell
when the temp gets above about 45 because the students start showing uo in
shorts.

BrP




> It is now 62F. Last week at this time it was around zero.
> Strange happenings. But ice and snow tomorrow through Monday. I do hope
> that there is not a driving problem on Monday as I really want to be
> done with my CT scan once and for all.
> --
> alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 12:34:02 2003
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>
> Two fatalities. One injury. It was an accident. I really hate CNN. They
> keep raising the spectre of an attack by terrorists when they know
> damned well it was an industrial accident. "Jittery New Yorkers shaken
> by explosion. Unsure if it was an accident or an attack." Irresponsible
> idiots.
>
> alyce


I was surprised they didn't do the same thing about the snowstorm.


By the way - did you see Frontline last night?

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 12:49:18 2003
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A ready.gov remix: <http://www.idlewords.com/nuclear_blast.htm>.

No offense on the Austin thing, Karen:
<http://www.idlewords.com/radiation.html>.

Pete

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:35:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:45:37 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
> A ready.gov remix: <http://www.idlewords.com/nuclear_blast.htm>.

> No offense on the Austin thing, Karen:
> <http://www.idlewords.com/radiation.html>.

I think he may have meant Crawford.

In any case, I think of anti-Austin remarks the way I think of
PNW PR. (Deliberate misinformation.)

Karen

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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
> >
> By the way - did you see Frontline last night?

no. I don't know Frontline. Is it on pbs?

alyce

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:45:37 -0500
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> "Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
> > >
> > By the way - did you see Frontline last night?
>
> no. I don't know Frontline. Is it on pbs?
>
> alyce


Yes.  Go to pbs.org and take a look at the program site for Frontline episode "The
War Behind Closed Doors"   It helps put a lot of what's going on into perspective.


BrP

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:13:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> I hope so. Are you feeling better? You sound better.

I've had 3-4 very good days in the last week. This is not one of them.
Am seriously too tired and have a slight fever. But yesterday I drove a
distance and was fine. Who knows. One day at a time, just like AA.

alyce

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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> Yes.  Go to pbs.org and take a look at the program site for Frontline episode "The
> War Behind Closed Doors"   It helps put a lot of what's going on into perspective.

Alas, I cannot read the small print. What time is it on? Or is it over?
I see it will be shown on-line next week.

alyce
>
> BrP


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Friday, February 21, 2003 at 14:45, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

> Yes.  Go to pbs.org and take a look at the program site for Frontline episode "The
> War Behind Closed Doors"   It helps put a lot of what's going on into perspective.

So Colin Powell is a dove; a "cautious realist". Dear god, if he's
the soft option, I think we're all going to burn.

Tony H.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: introduction
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02003-02-20 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Adam Hartfield wrote:
> >
> > > >Joanne Jemison wrote:
> > > Welcome.
> > >
> > > -rashmi
> >
> > Don't bother, she unsubbed. :(
>
> And I had her pegged as a stayer.  She really did seem like one of us
> very quickly.  I'm sorry she left.  Maybe she'll come back.  Remember
> how Myles was with us pretty briefly, then left, but then came back and
> stayed for a long time before deserting again?

No.

I always thought he came and he stayed.

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02003-02-21 | "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU> writes:
> At 08:11 PM 2/20/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> >> >Joanne Jemison wrote:
> >> Welcome.
> >>
> >> -rashmi
> >
> >Don't bother, she unsubbed. :(
> >
> >--Adam
> >adamh1@attbi.com
>
> We have to stop chasing people away. Maybe we need to give toasters
> or magnets with a subscription.

Somebody did send her ... it was a whores T shirt. That's why she left.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:02:18 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Tony Harminc wrote:
>
> So Colin Powell is a dove; a "cautious realist". Dear god, if he's
> the soft option, I think we're all going to burn.

Ooooh. It is probably good that I haven't seen it and can't read it. It
would make me angry. I would throw things at the teevee.

alyce

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:03:33 -0500
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> On Friday, February 21, 2003 at 14:45, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>
> > Yes.  Go to pbs.org and take a look at the program site for Frontline episode "The
> > War Behind Closed Doors"   It helps put a lot of what's going on into perspective.
>
> So Colin Powell is a dove; a "cautious realist". Dear god, if he's
> the soft option, I think we're all going to burn.
>
> Tony H.


Yes, well by contrast to Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld and Cheney...

BrP

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:10:19 -0500
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> Tony Harminc wrote:
> >
> > So Colin Powell is a dove; a "cautious realist". Dear god, if he's
> > the soft option, I think we're all going to burn.
>
> Ooooh. It is probably good that I haven't seen it and can't read it. It
> would make me angry. I would throw things at the teevee.
>
> alyce

If you promise not to throw things at me - here is a brief excerpt from the site.  This
piece is from the 1992 document "Defense Planning Guidance"  The writing of this
document was supervized by Wolfowitz (Bush Sr's Under Sec of Defense for Policy)

The number one objective of U.S. post-Cold War political and military
strategy should be preventing the emergence of a rival superpower.
"Our first objective is to prevent the re-emergence of a new rival. This
is a dominant consideration underlying the new regional defense
strategy and requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power
from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated
control, be sufficient to generate global power. These regions include
Western Europe, East Asia, the territory of the former Soviet Union,
and Southwest Asia.
"There are three additional aspects to this objective: First the U.S
must show the leadership necessary to establish and protect a new
order that holds the promise of convincing potential competitors that
they need not aspire to a greater role or pursue a more aggressive
posture to protect their legitimate interests. Second, in the non-
defense areas, we must account sufficiently for the interests of the
advanced industrial nations to discourage them from challenging our
leadership or seeking to overturn the established political and
economic order. Finally, we must maintain the mechanisms for
deterring potential competitors from even aspiring to a larger regional
or global role."

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An amazing collection of photos from the war protests around the world
2003-02-15: <http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/>.

Pete

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Paul R. Barfoot forwards,

>The number one objective of U.S. post-Cold War political and military
>strategy should be preventing the emergence of a rival superpower.

Here's my Bell-whatever Americana post (haven't blogged it yet):

I finally articulated it for myself: the Project for the New American
Century creed, "Pax Americana Über Alles," is the same allergic reaction to
pluralistic globalism as Osama bin Laden's, just in jumbo-sized superpower
form.

The utter irony, of course, is that "Pax Americana" was actually peaceful,
plural globalism.  Certainly it was strongly influenced by the United
States, with its cultural exports, educational centers and economic
policies, as much or more so as by its military might.

But it wasn't "American" except in the eyes of US provincialists whose
understanding of global politics froze in the mindset of the 19th century
-- the age of the British Empire, and its Pax Britannia.

On September 11th, the Arab fundamentalist separatists diabolically
elicited  "war," in so many words, by pinching the very center of the
financial and military nerves in the central nation-state of the global
economy.

Absent a great leader, a nation-state has no way to articulate the
activities of the necessary response except as a "war."

And so, with oilmen running the White House on a rapacious Middle East and
Central Asia energy platform, Bello Americana was a foregone conclusion.

Pete

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:25:42 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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At 10:57 AM 2/21/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > We went as a side tour and I was scared to death most of the time. After we
> > returned our main tour guide asked us how it was. Turns out after 9/11
> > they'd suspended the tour and were the second group to go since they
> resumed.
>
>How did it seem scary?  Iow, what did you notice about the behavior
>there?  Morocco used to be known as generally <looser> than many Arab
>countries.  I have done things like drink gin-and-tonics happily in
>Morocco during Ramadan.
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

It was a general feeling. Those of us who took this side tour talked about
it and we all came to the same conclusion, that it was a bit unnerving.

For me, the biggest factors were our words of welcome upon arrival and the
repeated warnings about staying together lest we get lost.

After we disembarked from the ferry we were met by a man who said, "Welcome
to Morocco. We looooove Ameeericans". He then pointed to a Cross atop a
steeple and said, "see that, it's a Catholic church". This was followed
with, "and if you look over there at, <forgotten landmark>, that's in the
area where the Jewish Temple is located". Finally he said, "We are Muslim
but we are Sunni. We get along with everyone. We have all kinds here and we
always have. You are welcome here". Sounds nice, doesn't it? Well it
creeped me out.

The kasbah was a place one could easily get lost. The warnings however
seemed more like we were going to be kidnapped and held for ransom. We had
one chaperone in the front, at least two on each side of us and another 2
behind us.

While we were in a rug shop my mother attempted to leave but was screamed
at by three men in the shop not to leave. They were yelling as if she were
about to fall off a moving train. They warned her she might get "lost".
 From that point forward they stood by the door so no one else would think
about exploring a little on their own.

So that was my experience. It's vastly different than what I expected. I
have a feeling there's a lot we missed. The tour was lousy and although
some of the scenery was beautiful I was disappointed. I'd never heard
anything bad about Morocco but because of my experience I'd hesitate to go
back.

lisa

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-21 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Two fatalities. One injury. It was an accident. I really hate CNN.
> They keep raising the spectre of an attack by terrorists when they know
> damned well it was an industrial accident. "Jittery New Yorkers shaken
> by explosion. Unsure if it was an accident or an attack." Irresponsible
> idiots.

Ha ha, if you want to hear about incomprehensible, how about this
completely bizarre conversation between a couple of my friends...
Actually the way it happened was somebody brought up the topic of
it still being "orange"--and I say I am fine, I have a hat I can
wear ... which is followed by looks of total incomprehension.
Therefore I withdraw from the conversation entirely and listen.
M (not her real name) takes out her cell phone while N (not real
name) says you know, it just struck me, how easy it would be to
disguise a detonator as a cell phone! Oh my GOD! is the rejoinder.

What makes a detonator disguised as a cell phone more horrible?
BUT, remember, there is a pleasure in thinking of ridiculous and
unrealistic "simple" ways to blow things up ... and a palm-sized
device which detonates a charge at a distance of a thousand feet
is one such simple way.

The conversation continues. M's boyfriend who lives somewhere near
New York heard of a clairvoyant hired by Mr Ridge. The clairvoyant
saw an oil tanker rolling into a city port, and an evil man on
shore taking out his ... CELL PHONE! Oh, the horror ...

It is decided immediately that this boyfriend SHOULD NOT go to
work tomorrow! It's too risky, two people thinking of cell phones
independently like this ...

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 13:37:04 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Peter Kaminski <kaminski@istori.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Paul R. Barfoot writes,

>requires that we endeavor to prevent any hostile power
>from dominating a region whose resources would, under consolidated
>control, be sufficient to generate global power.

Which is why the Administration is pursuing a course of action that
generates war protests around the world, and has numerous regions around
the world uniting around being on the same side against Bush.

Pete

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 15:46:07 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> lisa alfieri wrote:
>
>
>>We went as a side tour and I was scared to death most of the time. After we
>>returned our main tour guide asked us how it was. Turns out after 9/11
>>they'd suspended the tour and were the second group to go since they resumed.
>>
>
> How did it seem scary?  Iow, what did you notice about the behavior
> there?  Morocco used to be known as generally <looser> than many Arab
> countries.  I have done things like drink gin-and-tonics happily in
> Morocco during Ramadan.


        I had a Moroccan boyfriend named Tarik once.  Can't remember
his last name, though.  Actually, I don't know that I'd
recognize him in a photo if somebody showed it to me.  We
didn't date for that long.  A few months, I guess.  I didn't
find him creepy.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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02003-02-21 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> Tushar Samant:
> = 02003-02-20 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> = > Look.  We're going to go.  We're going to go somewhere.  If we're
> = > lucky the political situation in Namibia will not degenerate into
> = > one like Zimbabwe.  Where would you rather we go?  Just which
> = > country meets your unstated criteria that we not go to some fad
> = > country.
> =
> = You speak like somebody's stopping you ... Go where you wish ... puh!
>
> No one's stopping us.  It's just that I crave your approval
> (mostly because if you disapprove, you're not likely to come
> along).
>
> And, don't think I didn't notice that you didn't answer the
> question.

I approve!

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:01:29 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Because I am on the board of IOBA, I must publicize it.
There actually is some good reading here:
------------------------------------
Our winter, 2003 issue of the IOBA newsletter, The Standard, is now
live,
at: http://www.ioba.org/newsletter/V10/.  It's a bit late this time, as
we
wanted to get the IOBA election results in.  There is again a print
version
available, and also you can now sign up (bottom of the pages) to receive
personal email notification of future issues.

We have a lot of practical hands-on advice on everything from shelving,
maintaining inventory online and in an open store, online customer
newsletters, women's literature links, Q&A on book matters, to ethical
considerations in the book business. There are announcements of upcoming
book-related events, coverage of past book fairs/events, word about new
and
existing online services, a rave about SIC magazine, and an article
about a
new book-related print magazine, OP.

We also have an in-depth interview with Robert Westbrook, author of the
Howard Moon Deer mystery series and of Intimate Lies, and an interesting
account by anthropologist and author Carol Laderman about her research
into
shamanism in Malaysia. There's information about an award-winning
publisher
of Jewish children's books, a raving by Godsey (which particularly hits
home with me since I just went through something similar), a piece on
books
at auction, and an article about the spectacular and the not-so-great
about
movie and TV casting of mystery book characters.

There is also coverage about a most incredible mural at a bookshop in
the
U.K., an article on the book business from the perspective of a book
collector, information on a booksellers' ring site, the next in our
series
on ephemera, and an update on the bookselling business from Book Hunter
Press.

We also have more information about IOBA's classified ads program and an
introduction (in my Editor's Note) of two new Regional Reporters for the
newsletter.

Enjoy, and feel free to announce it anywhere you wish!

Shirley Bryant
Editor



Shirley Bryant
AUTHORS & ARTISTS

Phone: 918/686-6131

* Email *
* mailto:aaabooks@azalea.net *
* mailto:aaabooks@aaabooks.net *

*Web Site & Inventory*
* http://www.aaabooks.net *
* http://www.aaabooks.com *

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:08:43 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
> Yes, well by contrast to Wolfowitz and Rumsfeld and Cheney...

I thought at first that he might be a little dovish, but he has gone
completely over to "their" side. When he held up the little vial at the
UN and suggested that Saddam was responsible for anthrax at the post
office, I gave up on him because that was way dishonest. If he lies
about that, he'll lie about anything.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:15:34 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> If you promise not to throw things at me -

I'd never throw anything at you, Paul. I'll grant you that Wolfowitz is
a bad dude. It must have been an exciting moment for him when he got to
dig out his old papers from 1992. Probably he thought all that early
work had been wasted. To me he is as bad as Saddam. And have you ever
seen him? He wears shirts about four sizes too big so his scrawny neck
rattles around in the collar. Way strange.

alyce

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lisa alfieri wrote:

 The warnings however
> seemed more like we were going to be kidnapped and held for ransom.

I think not ransom. Just that you would not be seen again by your
friends and family. Women do disappear there, I hear.

alyce

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Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> It is decided immediately that this boyfriend SHOULD NOT go to
> work tomorrow! It's too risky, two people thinking of cell phones
> independently like this ...

Oh my God! Only this morning, my friend Nadine said she would feel safer
driving long distances if she had a cell phone. That is too spooky--she
mentions it, and then you tell this story. I don't know what to think
now. I am glad I don't have a cell phone, though. I can tell you that!

alce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Rita, did you have your scan? How do you feel? Is there still blood?

alyce

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02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> At 06:06 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> >> At 05:26 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >> >02003-02-20 | Betty Clark <bclark@UHS.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:
> >> >>
> >> >> You keep bringing up your shaved head.
> >> >
> >> >That's because I want to READ, lady!
> >>
> >> I ain't no lady!
> >
> >I just emailed you all the details of my shaving.
>
> Thank you!

You are welcome! I missed some important details. I did finally
buy Mach 3 ... though I discovered that the real reason why they
didn't nick was that they swivelled sufficiently well to avoid it.
Thus I concluded that most of my dickhead friends have no clue
about how to position a razor. Secondly, I discovered that most
of these dickheads define "close shave" as "slightly less visible",
and that suffices to satisfy them. I do use the Mach 3 when I am
shaving within a period of 3 days. Otherwise, I use a disposable
blade, which works better on rough hair like I have. I shave in
the shower, and shave my face and head at the same time. My head
is largely convex, which makes it easier to shave than say under
my chin. if you have any other questions, please feel free to
ask ...

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:46:21 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
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02003-02-20 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > I just emailed you all the details of my shaving.
>
> Are you coming to Acadiafest?  Can we watch you shave your head?

No.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 16:50:57 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Ebay as Big Brother
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02003-02-20 | "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM> writes:
> At 03:05 PM 2/20/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
>
> >Not showing up on Ebay strikes me as suspicious. Everybody's doing
> >it, so why not you?
>
> 1.  I have nothing I particularly want to sell at auction.
>
> 2.  There is nothing I particularly want to buy at auction.
>
> Best regards, Heinrich.

Ha ha, "Heinrich", that's pretty clever! Come on, what have you
got to hide? MY life's an open book.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 14:53:37 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: dept of redundancy and poor writing
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> You are welcome! I missed some important details. I did finally
> buy Mach 3 ... though I discovered that the real reason why they
> didn't nick was that they swivelled sufficiently well to avoid it.
> Thus I concluded that most of my dickhead friends have no clue
> about how to position a razor. Secondly, I discovered that most
> of these dickheads define "close shave" as "slightly less visible",
> and that suffices to satisfy them. I do use the Mach 3 when I am
> shaving within a period of 3 days. Otherwise, I use a disposable
> blade, which works better on rough hair like I have. I shave in
> the shower, and shave my face and head at the same time. My head
> is largely convex, which makes it easier to shave than say under
> my chin. if you have any other questions, please feel free to
> ask ...

Back in my headshaving days, I used an Atra razor (same brand I use on the
rest of me). I shaved by the sink, so that I could rinse the blade in
running water between strokes. I'd wrap hot towels around my head for a
while, then anoint myself liberally with shaving foam (a lovely sensation),
then go for it. I never nicked myself -- as Tushar notes, heads are convex,
and also, the skin is taut. Sunburn was a different matter, of course. But a
"close shave" for me was a shave after which I could feel no roughness
whatsoever, nothing but skin; a sandpapery feeling was cause to start over.
The feeling of the bare skin is, IMO, the whole point (although the plushy
sensation a week or so later also has its points).

Had I gone on wearing the bald look much longer, I would have obtained a
straight razor and learned to use it -- something I still intend to do one
of these days.

Janet

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Alyce:

>I'd never throw anything at you, Paul. I'll grant you that Wolfowitz is
>a bad dude. It must have been an exciting moment for him when he got to
>dig out his old papers from 1992. Probably he thought all that early
>work had been wasted. To me he is as bad as Saddam.

Aw, c'mon, this is the sort of hyperbole that makes me lose all
respect for the anti-war camp. Saddam is as bad as Saddam. No-one
else comes close.

>And have you ever                     seen him? He wears shirts about four
>sizes too big so his scrawny neck
>rattles around in the collar. Way strange.

Puhleeze. He looks like a shabby academic. Hard to believe that
such a mild-mannered man came up with the way-out theories
currently fashionable. I think he's a little nuts. And to think
our entire foreign policy rests on his 1992 paper. Scary.

-rashmi



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Tushar Samant wrote:

My head
> is largely convex,

That certainly beats concave.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:14:13 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita, did you have your scan? How do you feel? Is there still blood?


        No, not until the 28th.  I feel kinda tired, actually, but I
have that kind of life.  My students are starting to tell me
I look tired, which is disturbing. Of course, one is the
same kid who described Madame Defarge in an essay question
as "hella uncool."  Yes, still some blood, but my bp is down
to relatively normal levels.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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In a message dated 2/21/2003 6:32:28 AM, bonniev@PANAX.COM writes:

<< I wonder if it also varies by the type of pain.  I tolerate most pain quite
well from dental pain to muscle pain to sprains and the like.   But I do
not tolerate headaches well at all.
 >>

Headaches are virtually unknown to me. My Mother suffered from them all the
time, but not me. I wonder why that is. Theo

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In a message dated 2/21/2003 7:49:47 AM, alfieri@ATTBI.COM writes:

<< Nope, it's just something I heard. It sounded at least possible but I don't
really give a shit 'cause I don't like and therefore do not drink tea,
green or otherwise.

lisa
 >>

I was brought up on tea, breakfast, lunch and a 4 o'clock tea break. It will
stain your teeth, but doesn't do anything for your cavities, that's for sure.
Theo

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:40:02 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
 Saddam is as bad as Saddam. No-one
> else comes close.

Well, people can be equally bad in different ways. Wolfowitz has put
forth a policy that may fry us all. And that is as bad as Saddam to me.
So Saddam has used poison gas (while Rumsfeld was in Baghdad doing
business with him). Whenever I hear about Saddam gassing his own people,
I go into my folders and read this (which I feel sure has Wolfowitz's
name all over it):

US Military Operating a Secret Chemical Weapons Program
Sunshine Project provides evidence for US violation of international law

(Austin and Hamburg, 24 September 2002) - The Sunshine Project today
accuses the US military of conducting a
chemical weapons research and development program in violation of
international arms control law. The charges
follow an 18 month investigation of the Department of Defense's Joint
Non-Lethal Weapons Directorate (JNLWD).
The investigation made extensive use of the US Freedom of Information
Act to obtain Pentagon records that form the
primary basis of the allegations. An array of documents, many of which
have been posted on the Sunshine Project
website, demonstrate beyond a reasonable doubt that JNLWD is operating
an illegal and classified chemical
weapons program.

Specifically, the Sunshine Project accuses the JNLWD of:

    1. Conducting a research and development program on toxic chemical
agents for use as weapons,
    including anesthetics and psychoactive substances, in violation of
the Chemical Weapons
    Convention;

    2. Developing long-range military delivery devices for these
chemicals, including an 81mm chemical
    mortar round, that violate the Chemical Weapons Convention.

    3. Pursuing a chemical weapons program while fully cognizant that it
violates the Chemical
    Weapons Convention and US Department of Defense regulations;

    4. Attempting to cover up the illicit program by classifying as
secret even its own legal interpretations
    of the Chemical Weapons Convention and attempting to block access to
documents requested
    under US information freedom law.

Peace
alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:42:23 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:
 but my bp is down
> to relatively normal levels.

I'm glad of that, if not the rest. I thought your scan was today. Off by
a week.

alyce

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At 06:42 PM 2/21/2003 -0500, alyce cresap wrote:
>Rita Chapman wrote:
>  but my bp is down
> > to relatively normal levels.
>
>I'm glad of that, if not the rest. I thought your scan was today. Off by
>a week.
>
>alyce

I'm off by a month.  The massage that I went to get today, scheduled a
while ago, is for March 21.

Betty

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Betty wrote:
> I'm off by a month.  The massage that I went to get today, scheduled a
> while ago, is for March 21.

It will be all the sweeter when you have waited so long for it.

alyce

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alyce, on Wolfowitz:
>To me he is as bad as Saddam.

That pesky Wolfy, his mom always warned us he'd
kill his neighbors and gas his family.

Should have listened to

koff koff koff


&$^2w506][]5030NO CARRIER

--
Richard 8:11     nothing they propose will be impossible for them

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 17:57:58 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I volunteered today to host two more departmental parties, one Tuesday
and one Thursday.  This time I will have less time right before the
parties to do stuff since I am going to be heavily involved in things
like observing the candidates teach and listening to their presentations
(because they're linguists and I am being relied upon as an unofficial
member of the committee -- unofficial because retired people are
supposedly not on committees).  And I've got test papers coming in on
Monday in one class, and I've got my ticket to the Democratic Party
Beans & Greens dinner on Monday night.  Iow, it's going to be a busy
week.

But here's the question.  I'm going to make ham&cheese pinwheels,
probably doing everything but slicing them on Sunday.  I know that will
be fine for the 5 p.m. party on Tuesday.  But will it be ok to leave
half of the stuff rolled up in its waxed paper from Sunday until
Thursday?  (I'll have to slice them early Thursday since I'll be
arriving at the party at 5 p.m. along with the guests.  Tuesday I'll
have an hour between my last on-campus involvement and the party.)  (I
don't mean that on Thursday I'll slice them and set them out in the
early morning.  I mean I'll slice them and leave stacked on a plate in
the refrigerator between sheets of waxed paper.)  My thought is that all
of this stuff will be just as happy already mixed together as it is now
sitting separately in my refrigerator.  (I bought the ingredients this
afternoon.  Also did step one of cheese-bacon crispies this afternoon.
Will do crab puffs tomorrow.)

The ham-cheese pinwheels I'm asking about (doubled recipe, of course):

***********
1 cup Calif. Dip (Lipton's dry onion soup and sour cream)
1 pkg. (3-oz.) cream cheese, softened
2 TBS chopped ripe olives
6 slices cooked ham
6 slices Swiss cheese

 In small bowl, blend Calif. dip with cream cheese & olives.
 Chill about 1 hour.  Spread mixture evenly on ham slices;
 top with cheese slices, then more dip mixture.  Roll up &
 wrap in waxed paper.  Chill at least 2 hours.  Cut each roll
 into 1/2" slices.
***********

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 18:02:48 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> 1959.  I remember Tu Tui Tibi Te Te    And I remember that all Gaul is
> divided into three parts.  And something about Hannibal coming over the
> mountains with his elephants.

The omnia gallia line was something else that my parents often quoted in
my childhood.  (This sounds weird for a family that was not really weird
at all.  I have no idea why my parents had their Latin-spewing
moments.)  I fully expected to see it the first day of my first-year
Latin class in high school but instead learned that America is my
country and that America isn't an island but that Britannia is an
island.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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02003-02-21 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> This showed up on my small publishers' list. Comments?

It's LAME

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In a message dated 2/21/2003 12:45:58 PM, prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU writes:

<< Yes.  Go to pbs.org and take a look at the program site for Frontline
episode "The
War Behind Closed Doors"   It helps put a lot of what's going on into
perspective.
 >>

I don't watch much TV, but that's a good program IMO. Theo

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Subject: Re: weather
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In a message dated 2/21/2003 1:14:31 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< I've had 3-4 very good days in the last week. This is not one of them.
Am seriously too tired and have a slight fever. But yesterday I drove a
distance and was fine. Who knows. One day at a time, just like AA.
 >>

I sure hope that you will recover from this completely, and soon. Also that
the weather will cooperate for the CT scan. Theo

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Food Question
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In a message dated 02/21/2003 5:58:21 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
But here's the question.  I'm going to make ham&cheese pinwheels,
probably doing everything but slicing them on Sunday.  I know that will
be fine for the 5 p.m. party on Tuesday.  But will it be ok to leave
half of the stuff rolled up in its waxed paper from Sunday until
Thursday?
>>

I wouldn't recommend it.  Deli meat usually lasts about 3 days
after slicing.  Buddig and Oscar Mayer meat has preservatives
in it to make it last longer.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Thank you! I forgot all about ablative!!
>
> Jeeze. I recognize the name, but I don't remember what it means
> any more.

I've forgotten almost everything about Latin, but ablative in PIE was
(reconstructurally speaking, of course) movement away from a source.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> Omnia Gallia in tres partes divisa est. (I think.)

I remember it as Omnia Gallia es divisa in partes tres.  But that's just
from hearing my parents quoting it.  I don't remember it from my hs
Latin.

> I don't think we did Hannibal. I remember something very long about
> Aeneas, though.

I remember giggles when we read about the rape of the Sabine women.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Natalie, on omnia gallia:
> I fully expected to see it the first day of my first-year
> Latin class in high school but instead learned that America is my
> country and that America isn't an island but that Britannia is an
> island.

Well, by then France was no longer in three parts.

Fer krissakes, y'think Latin doesn't keep up with
the times?

--
Richard 8:11     nothing they propose will be impossible for them

>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:24:57 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> But here's the question.  I'm going to make ham&cheese pinwheels,

Always good. We have established that. You may slice the Thursday ones
in the morning and cover them in the refrigerator till 5 pm.

The Germantown gourmet chef

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:26:30 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> >
> I sure hope that you will recover from this completely, and soon. Also that
> the weather will cooperate for the CT scan.

Thanks. The weatherman said only 1" snow for Monday. I can manage that.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:18:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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Who knows something about the (Mexican) Indian language Tarasco/a or
Purepecha?

Bethany

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In a message dated 2/21/2003 3:36:26 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Oh my God! Only this morning, my friend Nadine said she would feel safer
driving long distances if she had a cell phone. That is too spooky--she
mentions it, and then you tell this story. I don't know what to think
now. I am glad I don't have a cell phone, though. I can tell you that!
 >>

I don't have one either, but not because it scares me. People dream up all
kinds of calamities because this is the first time any nation has ever dared
attacking the US. It'll probably cease in times to come, if nothing else
causes panic, I'm surprised it has lasted THIS long. Theo

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:29:02 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > Omnia Gallia in tres partes divisa est. (I think.)
>
> I remember it as Omnia Gallia es divisa in partes tres.

Maybe. I thought the verb went at the end. But I won't argue.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:31:40 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Natalie Maynor wrote:
> >
> > But here's the question.  I'm going to make ham&cheese pinwheels,
>
> Always good. We have established that. You may slice the Thursday ones
> in the morning and cover them in the refrigerator till 5 pm.

I missed the Sunday through Thursday part of the question. Maybe Evelyn
knows best, although I have kept deli meat much longer than three days
and eaten it without bad results.

alyce

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In a message dated 2/21/2003 4:13:47 PM, rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<< Yes, still some blood, but my bp is down
to relatively normal levels. >>

Well, that's SOME improvement, anyway. Hopefully you'll have a complete
recovery from whatever it was that caused the bloodloss. My very best wishes
going out in your direction. Theo

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>but my bp is down to relatively normal levels.
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman

Good.   And it dawns on me that I forgot to add you and Ana to the
Acadiafest probables.


    --bonniev

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:13:41 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> This showed up on my small publishers' list. Comments?

They struck me as totally normal and in most cases things I'd never
thought of as regional.  The only one that struck me as at all odd was
the one about "sweet."  It's a myth that tea in the South is
automatically sugared.  The only time I can remember having sugared tea
without being asked whether I wanted it that way was in New England.  I
hate sugared tea.  Also on the "sweet" one, I think specifying "sweet
milk" has pretty much died out by now.  My father always said "sweet
milk," but he was born in 1907.  I don't think many people younger than
that feel the need of the marking.  (And I grew up saying "having a
hissy," no "fit" included, though I've heard it, and "have" working just
fine.  I've heard "pitching a fit," a course.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:14:22 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Espen S. Ore" wrote:
>
> This was a very good day to take a day off!

But no!  You needed to be answering Latin questions here today.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:15:53 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:
> I can't imagine going
> to Bar Harbor and not exploring Acadia.

I can.  I've explored Acadia NP before and feel no particular need to do
that again.  My reason for going to AcadiaFest is to ftf with my
friends.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:16:27 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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Betty wrote:

> At 06:42 PM 2/21/2003 -0500, alyce cresap wrote:
>
>> Rita Chapman wrote:
>>  but my bp is down
>> > to relatively normal levels.
>>
>> I'm glad of that, if not the rest. I thought your scan was today. Off by
>> a week.
>>
>> alyce
>
>
> I'm off by a month.  The massage that I went to get today, scheduled a
> while ago, is for March 21.


        Bummer!  Now there's an appointment I should make.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:20:00 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> that there is not a driving problem on Monday as I really want to be
> done with my CT scan once and for all.

Hear, hear!

The weather here has also been strange.  After far too much cold
weather, it finally got almost decent a day or two ago.  Then last night
the monsoons set in.  And the forecast for next week is for more cold
weather.  I am mightily tired of this winter.  In spite of the blooming
jonquils, we have had very few hints of spring yet.  (Not all jonquils
are blooming, of course.  They have a long season, with various ones
doing their thing at various times, from late January through early
April.  My next-door neighbor's have been blooming for several weeks
now, but mine are still just in the sprouting-up stage.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Natalie Maynor writes,

>But no!  You needed to be answering Latin questions here today.

No -- it's far better to be out in the sun and snow. :)

Pete

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Tony Harminc wrote:

> So Colin Powell is a dove; a "cautious realist". Dear god, if he's
> the soft option, I think we're all going to burn.

Alas, in the current administration he probably is.  He's the only one
of Dubya's cronies who gave me hope back months ago.  I'm not sure what
has happened to him -- why he has turned into his current self.  I do
know that I wish his old self would reappear.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tushar Samant wrote:

> > how Myles was with us pretty briefly, then left, but then came back and
> > stayed for a long time before deserting again?
>
> No.
>
> I always thought he came and he stayed.

Nope.  He was here for a fairly short time and then left.  After a while
he returned and then stayed for a long time.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> An amazing collection of photos from the war protests around the world
> 2003-02-15: <http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/>.

Good pictures.  I'm sorry that Starkville wasn't included.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:37:00 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>  but my bp is down
>
>>to relatively normal levels.
>>
>
> I'm glad of that, if not the rest. I thought your scan was today. Off by
> a week.
>


        No, we shall be 'festing during the same week.  I'm advised
the drink stuff tastes better cold.  Let me know if that's
true.  I'm not surprised you're a little tired still after
all that lung crud.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 19:40:47 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> The kasbah was a place one could easily get lost. The warnings however
> seemed more like we were going to be kidnapped and held for ransom. We had
> one chaperone in the front, at least two on each side of us and another 2
> behind us.

I haven't been to Morocco since 9/11, of course, but I didn't find it a
creepy place at all when I was there earlier.  I wandered around all
over the place without feeling at risk in any way.

> So that was my experience. It's vastly different than what I expected. I
> have a feeling there's a lot we missed. The tour was lousy and although
> some of the scenery was beautiful I was disappointed. I'd never heard
> anything bad about Morocco but because of my experience I'd hesitate to go
> back.

I think a large part of your problem there was being part of a <herd>.
I bet if you or you and your mother had been there on your own, your
experience would have been quite different.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 19:42:27 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:

> I think not ransom. Just that you would not be seen again by your
> friends and family. Women do disappear there, I hear.

Women disappear in Morocco?  Under what kinds of circumstances?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> I'm glad of that, if not the rest. I thought your scan was today. Off by
> a week.

I also had thought it was to be today, not next Friday.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:44:23 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> I wouldn't recommend it.  Deli meat usually lasts about 3 days
> after slicing.  Buddig and Oscar Mayer meat has preservatives
> in it to make it last longer.

??  The package gives a "use-by" date over a month from now.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:46:59 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > But here's the question.  I'm going to make ham&cheese pinwheels,
>
> Always good. We have established that. You may slice the Thursday ones
> in the morning and cover them in the refrigerator till 5 pm.

I have sliced them at least two days in advance before.  I was just
wondering about the mixing of the ingredients -- leaving them in the
roll-up stage -- for four or five days.  I really do think it's fine.
I've done that for at least three days on various past occasions.  I
can't see how those ingredients in their roll-up stage are any more
perishable than they are in the refrigerator in their separate packages.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:50:00 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> > > Omnia Gallia in tres partes divisa est. (I think.)
> >
> > I remember it as Omnia Gallia es divisa in partes tres.
>
> Maybe. I thought the verb went at the end. But I won't argue.

Nor will I.  I'm sure it would be quite easy to find, but my memory is
based only on my parents' perhaps-erroneous spouting of Latin around the
house.  I don't think we ever got to the Gallic Wars in my hs Latin.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:49:55 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > I think not ransom. Just that you would not be seen again by your
> > friends and family. Women do disappear there, I hear.
>
> Women disappear in Morocco?  Under what kinds of circumstances?
>
I posted some weeks ago about the French movie Doug and I saw over
Christmas. Forgot its name. But two women tour Morocco and one gets
"stolen" for white slavery purposes. Curled our hair and toes.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:51:39 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> I missed the Sunday through Thursday part of the question. Maybe Evelyn
> knows best, although I have kept deli meat much longer than three days
> and eaten it without bad results.

I'm not sure exactly what you and Evelyn mean by "deli meat."  The
packages of ham in my grocery stores have expiration dates on them --
and they are for sure far longer away than three days.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:54:03 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> alyce cresap wrote:
>
>
>>I'm glad of that, if not the rest. I thought your scan was today. Off by
>>a week.
>>
>
> I also had thought it was to be today, not next Friday.


        Nope!  Another fun-filled week of mystery and wondering ahead!




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:52:26 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>         No, we shall be 'festing during the same week.  I'm advised
> the drink stuff tastes better cold.

I don't have to drink anything. Are you sure you're having a CT scan?
They give me some dye, but not by mouth.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:54:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Do y'all think it will be ok that the carrots and celery I bought today
say best used by Feb. 26 and the second of these parties is the 27th?
My gut feeling is that it's gonna be ok.  I'm usually too conscientious
to go with possibly stale carrots and celery, but the upcoming week
really is going to be impossible.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:54:44 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> I'm not sure exactly what you and Evelyn mean by "deli meat."  The
> packages of ham in my grocery stores have expiration dates on them --
> and they are for sure far longer away than three days.

Evelyn assumed deli and I fell in with it. I revert to my first answer.
I think your plans are fine. It won't spoil if kept away from air and in
the refrigerator.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:57:51 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>
>>        No, we shall be 'festing during the same week.  I'm advised
>>the drink stuff tastes better cold.
>>
>
> I don't have to drink anything. Are you sure you're having a CT scan?
> They give me some dye, but not by mouth.
>


        That's what the piece of paper says.  Maybe it is because
he's looking at my kidneys.


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:59:42 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> > Women disappear in Morocco?  Under what kinds of circumstances?
> >
> I posted some weeks ago about the French movie Doug and I saw over
> Christmas. Forgot its name. But two women tour Morocco and one gets
> "stolen" for white slavery purposes. Curled our hair and toes.

Was this a based-on-fact movie?  As I said earlier, I never felt the
least bit ill at ease in Morocco.  But the mention of that movie reminds
me again of how much I liked the movie "Beyond Rangoon," which we have
discussed here before.  I find it so odd that everybody I've ever
encountered who has seen that movie (or at least everybody  I've
encountered who I find out has seen that movie) has loved it, yet it
seems to be little known.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:05:34 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Fri, 21 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>Do y'all think it will be ok that the carrots and celery I bought today
>say best used by Feb. 26 and the second of these parties is the 27th?

Maria says neigh - you must send the carrots to her c/o me immediately for
earlier consumption.

Bethany

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In a message dated 02/21/2003 7:55:17 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
Do y'all think it will be ok that the carrots and celery I bought today
say best used by Feb. 26 and the second of these parties is the 27th?

>>

As long as they look OK, it should be OK to use them, if they're raw.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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In a message dated 02/21/2003 7:44:39 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
??  The package gives a "use-by" date over a month from now.


>>

Then it should be OK as long as you wrap up the pinwheels in
plastic wrap and keep them cold.  Meat that you buy in the deli
should be used within 3 days of purchase, but packaged meat
is treated to have a much longer shelflife.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 19:23:36 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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Subject: Re: War protests around the world
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> Peter Kaminski wrote:
> >
> > An amazing collection of photos from the war protests around the world
> > 2003-02-15: <http://www.hyperreal.org/~dana/>.

    I'm amazed that my 'favorite' - one that gave me the whim-whams - of a
protester carrying a placard saying "Peace In Our Time" - wasn't included.

JMW

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In a message dated 02/21/2003 7:52:06 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
I'm not sure exactly what you and Evelyn mean by "deli meat."
>>

Meat that you buy in the deli section, as opposed to the meat that
you buy already packaged up.  When we slice the meat and package
it up, we put on a sticker that has a "use by" date three days hence.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:51:24 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Do y'all think it will be ok that the carrots and celery I bought today
> say best used by Feb. 26 and the second of these parties is the 27th?
> My gut feeling is that it's gonna be ok.  I'm usually too conscientious
> to go with possibly stale carrots and celery, but the upcoming week
> really is going to be impossible.

It will be OK. I never have seen dates on fresh vegetables. Is this a
new thing?

alyce

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Rita Chapman wrote:
>         That's what the piece of paper says.  Maybe it is because
> he's looking at my kidneys.

I suppose. I know that the dye I get is to increase the contrast of the
picture. It makes you feel very hot and like you're wetting your pants,
but you're not. I don't know anything about drinking stuff.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:58:28 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> Meat that you buy in the deli section, as opposed to the meat that
> you buy already packaged up.  When we slice the meat and package
> it up, we put on a sticker that has a "use by" date three days hence.

Thanks to you and to Alyce.  Wmart does have a deli where one can buy
sliced stuff, but I wouldn't think about using that kind of ham for
these pinwheels.  They need rectangular, thin slices of the kind that
are in packages in the other part of the store.  But speaking of deli,
I'm very happy to have found in Wmart packages of swiss cheese labeled
something like "deli thin."  That thin cheese makes the pinwheels roll
much better.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:00:23 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Was this a based-on-fact movie?

It was not a documentary. I don't know if it was based on fact, but it
was very real. There were scenes of the stolen woman's friend looking
for her, doing down alleys of doorways and around spooky corners. The
photography was beautiful...and scary. I wish I could remember what it
was called. Maybe Doug does.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:07:54 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> It will be OK. I never have seen dates on fresh vegetables. Is this a
> new thing?

These are cartons of already cut celery and carrots floating in water.

Meanwhile, different topic:  I've been wondering about something my
uncle sent me in e-mail today.  He forwarded me a message from a friend
of his, with a Spanish e-mail address -- as in .es.  But it told a story
of somebody "right here in town" who was sitting at a computer at "St.
John's College" and was arrested by the FBI for writing anti-Bush
e-mail.  If the FBI was involved, I assume that the setting was not
Spain.  I'm not sure where St. John's College is since I think there are
at least a few.  But one wouldn't be arrested by the FBI except in the
USA, right?

I am a bit skeptical of the whole story.  (Naturally I wrote him back
asking where this event occurred.  But it's the middle of the night in
Spain now.  Maybe he'll reply tomorrow.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 21:13:21 2003
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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Food Question
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I've discovered that people have different meanings for "sandwich"
thickness for meat:  some people mean thin for layering the meat
onto bread, and others mean thick to put one slice of meat on the
bread.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 21:16:23 2003
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:12:57 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> These are cartons of already cut celery and carrots floating in water.

This, too, is new to me. I can see that I am missing out on a lot by not
shopping.

>
> Meanwhile, different topic:  I've been wondering about something my
> uncle sent me in e-mail today.

I am very eager to know more about this. If arrests are to be made for
anti-bush e-mailing, surely I will be picked up soon.

The best known St. John's is in Maryland. A lesser one is in Santa Fe,
NM, and there is the one at Oxford, of course.

alyce

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 21:17:09 2003
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There is a St. John's at Cambridge, too, I think.

alyce

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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
> I've discovered that people have different meanings for "sandwich"
> thickness for meat:  some people mean thin for layering the meat
> onto bread, and others mean thick to put one slice of meat on the
> bread.

At the deli where I used to go (and may again), we specify thick or
thin. I can see that "sandwich" would not tell the slicer much.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 21:18:46 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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This apparently is the incident my uncle's correspondent was talking
about:

http://santafenewmexican.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=7063015&BRD=2144&PAG=461&dept_id=500281&rfi=6

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:
> > These are cartons of already cut celery and carrots floating in water.
>
> This, too, is new to me. I can see that I am missing out on a lot by not
> shopping.

I've known for years about going on and cutting celery or carrots for
dips way in advance and keeping them in a container filled with water
(in the refrigerator).  But now you can avoid the having to cut them.
Wmart sells them already in that <condition>.  (I've bought them many
times at other grocery stores already cut, but they've been in packages,
not floating in water in cartons.  Wmart has it <right>.)

> I am very eager to know more about this. If arrests are to be made for
> anti-bush e-mailing, surely I will be picked up soon.

That is one thing I said in reply to my uncle's e-mail -- that I am most
definitely at risk but that I do not intend to change my ways.

> The best known St. John's is in Maryland. A lesser one is in Santa Fe,
> NM, and there is the one at Oxford, of course.

It's apparently the one at Sante Fe (see my just-sent posting -- I found
the story by googling).

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 02/21/2003 9:16:07 PM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
At the deli where I used to go (and may again), we specify thick or
thin. I can see that "sandwich" would not tell the slicer much.


>>

That's why I always ask how thin the customer wants it.

And then there are the people who ask for a pound chunk.
I have to get the weight, measure the length, get a knife, and
cut.


Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:25:44 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> There is a St. John's at Cambridge, too, I think.

Yes.  There is.  But it's not the one.

And speaking of Cambridge, I'm happy that a student I've taught for the
past three semesters has recently been accepted to grad school at
Cambridge.  I'm glad I got to that class early today because I enjoyed
her excited talk about her upcoming Cambridge experience.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:28:29 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> This apparently is the incident my uncle's correspondent was talking
> about:
>
> http://santafenewmexican.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=7063015&BRD=2144&PAG=461&dept_id=500281&rfi=6

Entirely too many suspicious people in libraries these days.

alyce

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From: "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@noxiousweeds.net>
Organization: Noxious Weeds
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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On 21 Feb 2003 at 22:00, alyce cresap wrote:

> It was not a documentary. I don't know if it was based on fact, but it was
> very real.

Some people lead charmed lives and need not worry about such
things. Others may be interested in this excerpt from the current
State Department consular information sheet on Morocco:

CRIME: Morocco has a moderately high crime rate in urban areas.
Criminals have targeted tourists for robberies, assaults, muggings,
thefts, purse snatchings, pick-pocketing, and scams of all types.
Most of the petty crime occurs in the medina/market areas, parks
and beaches. Commonly reported crimes include falsifying credit-
card vouchers and shipping inferior rugs as a substitute for the
rugs purchased by the traveler. The U.S. Embassy and Consulate have
also received reports of thefts occurring in the vicinity of ATM
machines. Aggressive panhandling is common.

Some travelers have been befriended by persons of various
nationalities, who have offered them food, drink, or cigarettes,
which are drugged. Harassment of tourists by unemployed Moroccans
posing as "guides" is a common problem. Prudent travelers hire only
official tour guides through hotels and travel agencies. Traveling
alone in the Rif Mountain area is risky because tourists have
fallen victim to schemes involving the purchase and/or trafficking
of hashish. Unescorted women in any area of Morocco may experience
verbal abuse. The best course of action is to ignore such abuse.
Some women who have responded have come under physical attack.
Thieves sometimes bump cars from behind and rob their victims when
they get out of the car to inspect the damage. Taxis and trains in
Morocco are generally crime-free; buses are not.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 21:36:31 2003
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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-21 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tony Harminc wrote:
>
> > So Colin Powell is a dove; a "cautious realist". Dear god, if he's
> > the soft option, I think we're all going to burn.
>
> Alas, in the current administration he probably is.  He's the only one
> of Dubya's cronies who gave me hope back months ago.  I'm not sure what
> has happened to him -- why he has turned into his current self.  I do
> know that I wish his old self would reappear.

You can't deviate too much from the general tenor. (Of course you
could step down saying you can't do this anymore, but I can't think
of a more horrifyingly disastrous decision for yourself, not just
politically but personally.)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 21:40:21 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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At 07:16 PM 2/21/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>Betty wrote:
>
>>At 06:42 PM 2/21/2003 -0500, alyce cresap wrote:
>>
>>>Rita Chapman wrote:
>>>  but my bp is down
>>> > to relatively normal levels.
>>>
>>>I'm glad of that, if not the rest. I thought your scan was today. Off by
>>>a week.
>>>
>>>alyce
>>
>>
>>I'm off by a month.  The massage that I went to get today, scheduled a
>>while ago, is for March 21.
>
>
>        Bummer!  Now there's an appointment I should make.

Definitely. This was a gift certificate from my son. He gave all of us gift
certificates for massages for helping him move and paint when he bought his
condo last April.

Betty

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:37:59 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:
>  Others may be interested in this excerpt from the current
> State Department consular information sheet on Morocco:

Yes, I am interested, because my life is not charmed. Nor was I planning
to go to Morocco, of course.

Do you have one of these sheets for Namibia?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 21:57:53 2003
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 21:54:42 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:

> Some people lead charmed lives and need not worry about such
> things. Others may be interested in this excerpt from the current
> State Department consular information sheet on Morocco:

I'm in a quandary about what your point is.  When I read "the current"
above, I thought maybe there was something new and frightening re
Morocco, but nothing in what you quoted (below) sounded different from
what the scene was when I was there close to twenty years ago.  Fending
off the Moroccan "guides" is (or was when I was there) a hassle, but it
was not exactly <scary>.  And yes to the "moderately high crime rate in
urban areas."  Somebody used to life in a country like Japan might find
that moderately high crime rate in urban areas scary.  But even we
small-towners in the USA are aware of moderately high crime rates when
we visit big cities.  (Hawaii is no doubt different.)   Thefts occurring
in the vicinity of ATM machines?  Oh my!  (There weren't any ATMs when I
was in Morocco.  That must be why I'm so shocked at the thought.)

This is getting too long.  It's just that I really truly don't
understand what it is your posting is supposed to be telling us.  It
would not surprise me at all to think that things now were scarier in
Morocco than they were in the '80s, which is why I asked Lisa for more
on that subject.  But nothing in what you posted suggests to me that
they are.

> CRIME: Morocco has a moderately high crime rate in urban areas.
> Criminals have targeted tourists for robberies, assaults, muggings,
> thefts, purse snatchings, pick-pocketing, and scams of all types.
> Most of the petty crime occurs in the medina/market areas, parks
> and beaches. Commonly reported crimes include falsifying credit-
> card vouchers and shipping inferior rugs as a substitute for the
> rugs purchased by the traveler. The U.S. Embassy and Consulate have
> also received reports of thefts occurring in the vicinity of ATM
> machines. Aggressive panhandling is common.
>
> Some travelers have been befriended by persons of various
> nationalities, who have offered them food, drink, or cigarettes,
> which are drugged. Harassment of tourists by unemployed Moroccans
> posing as "guides" is a common problem. Prudent travelers hire only
> official tour guides through hotels and travel agencies. Traveling
> alone in the Rif Mountain area is risky because tourists have
> fallen victim to schemes involving the purchase and/or trafficking
> of hashish. Unescorted women in any area of Morocco may experience
> verbal abuse. The best course of action is to ignore such abuse.
> Some women who have responded have come under physical attack.
> Thieves sometimes bump cars from behind and rob their victims when
> they get out of the car to inspect the damage. Taxis and trains in
> Morocco are generally crime-free; buses are not.


--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 22:09:28 2003
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:05:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> You can't deviate too much from the general tenor. (Of course you
> could step down saying you can't do this anymore, but I can't think
> of a more horrifyingly disastrous decision for yourself, not just
> politically but personally.)

This is all sounding almost as if Harry Bellefonte was right in what he
said about CP (though there was no need for him to use the metaphor he
used).  It's true, though, that I guess very much deviation is
impossible.  But I don't agree about the horrifyingly disastrous
decision for yourself of saying no.  There's much to say about whether
it might be politically disastrous, which I won't get into since I need
to log off and go to sleep in the sound of the rain -- but I don't
necessarily agree that it would be politically disastrous).  Personally
disastrous?  I don't see that at all.  If in fact CP thinks that Dubya's
warmongering is wrong, I cannot imagine a better way to return to being
able to sleep at night with a clear conscience than saying, "Enough!
This is BS.  I can't be part of it."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 22:18:19 2003
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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:16:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 6:10:14 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:

>> Thank you! I forgot all about ablative!!
>>
>> Jeeze. I recognize the name, but I don't remember what it means
>> any more.

> I've forgotten almost everything about Latin, but ablative in PIE was
> (reconstructurally speaking, of course) movement away from a source.

Thank you.

Actually, I was thinking more or less that, but only because of
abductors and adductors. It didn't seem fair to be able to
reconstruct it now when I don't remember how I learned it at the
time.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:17:21 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 6:29:02 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>
>> alyce cresap wrote:
>>
>> > Omnia Gallia in tres partes divisa est. (I think.)
>>
>> I remember it as Omnia Gallia es divisa in partes tres.

> Maybe. I thought the verb went at the end. But I won't argue.

I think you're right.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 20:21:16 -0800
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>Who knows something about the (Mexican) Indian language Tarasco/a or
>Purepecha?
>
>Bethany

As PDQ Bach once wrote: "What is it like to be running?  Only he who is
running knows."

Ken Miller
Schickele School of Philosophomusicology

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02003-02-21 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> This is all sounding almost as if Harry Bellefonte was right in what
> he said about CP (though there was no need for him to use the metaphor
> he used).  It's true, though, that I guess very much deviation is
> impossible.  But I don't agree about the horrifyingly disastrous
> decision for yourself of saying no.  There's much to say about whether
> it might be politically disastrous, which I won't get into since I need
> to log off and go to sleep in the sound of the rain -- but I don't
> necessarily agree that it would be politically disastrous).  Personally
> disastrous?  I don't see that at all.  If in fact CP thinks that Dubya's
> warmongering is wrong, I cannot imagine a better way to return to being
> able to sleep at night with a clear conscience than saying, "Enough!
> This is BS.  I can't be part of it."

What a lame definition of "personal" ... you make "sleeping well"
out as some absolute thing, and compensating for losing friends,
losing a future, and probably being vilified as treacherous and
cowardly for a long time to come. This is a point of no return...

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 22:36:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 10:05:31 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> This is all sounding almost as if Harry Bellefonte was right in what he
> said about CP (though there was no need for him to use the metaphor he
> used).

What did he say?

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 21 23:28:48 2003
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He should keep the roundtable discussion, have Larry Miller on
every week, and drop the stand-up.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 00:29:35 -0500
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> I do think Adam should see Acadia. But if he's not comfortable with the
> cliffs, there are definitely places he won't want to go. Otter
> Cliffs would not be fun for him. Thunder Hole might make him dizzy. Etc.

I'm sure it's beautiful. NO cliffs for me, though. I still haven't
completely forgiven the friends who told me the Cliff Walk in Newport was
broad and sandy - it was in the first part, but not the majority! If I had
known what it was going to be like, I definitely wouldn't have done it. I
didn't appreciate any of the beauty because I was focused on finishing the
damned thing as soon as possible, so it was just a big annoying waste.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: acadiafest
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 00:14:34 -0600
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> Saturday, February 22, 2003, 12:00:37 AM, Doris Markland wrote:
> > Then my daughter told me to go get the Indian
> > movie "Mitr" and I can't get that.  I particularly
> > wanted to see that because the female lead is the
> > cousin of Sara's best friend, and my friend too.
> > Sara has had lunch in Houston with this actress,
> > whose name I can't remember and has also
> > seen the movie and enjoyed it.
>
> Do you have a DVD player? Netflix has it.
>
> Karen

Thanks.  I'll have to look that up.  I don't
know what you have to do to use Netflix,
but suppose something like . . . join or
subscribe? Will find out.

                - D. M.

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:37:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 11:29:35 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> I'm sure it's beautiful. NO cliffs for me, though. I still haven't
> completely forgiven the friends who told me the Cliff Walk in Newport was
> broad and sandy - it was in the first part, but not the majority! If I had
> known what it was going to be like, I definitely wouldn't have done it. I
> didn't appreciate any of the beauty because I was focused on finishing the
> damned thing as soon as possible, so it was just a big annoying waste.

Why didn't you turn around and come back?

Karen
Major Height Wimp

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: report from NYC
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 00:53:47 -0500
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> Why didn't you turn around and come back?

Because they kept telling me it wasn't much further to the end. Liars!

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Fri, 21 Feb 2003 23:58:12 -0600
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Friday, February 21, 2003, 11:53:47 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
>> Why didn't you turn around and come back?

> Because they kept telling me it wasn't much further to the end. Liars!

OH! That sucks.

Karen

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 12:00:37 AM, Doris Markland wrote:
> Then my daughter told me to go get the Indian
> movie "Mitr" and I can't get that.  I particularly
> wanted to see that because the female lead is the
> cousin of Sara's best friend, and my friend too.
> Sara has had lunch in Houston with this actress,
> whose name I can't remember and has also
> seen the movie and enjoyed it.

Do you have a DVD player? Netflix has it.

Karen

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 12:00:37 AM, Doris Markland wrote:
[about Beyond Rangoon]
> It is playing on one of my cable channels right
> now and I saw a few minutes of it but have to
> wait for another time to see it from the beginning.

I think you would like this.

Karen

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 12:14:34 AM, Doris Markland wrote:
> Thanks.  I'll have to look that up.  I don't
> know what you have to do to use Netflix,
> but suppose something like . . . join or
> subscribe? Will find out.

Yes. Alyce and one of the people I date each have it and love it.

Karen

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At 12:29 AM 2/22/2003 -0500, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> > I do think Adam should see Acadia. But if he's not comfortable with the
> > cliffs, there are definitely places he won't want to go. Otter
> > Cliffs would not be fun for him. Thunder Hole might make him dizzy. Etc.
>
>I'm sure it's beautiful. NO cliffs for me, though. I still haven't
>completely forgiven the friends who told me the Cliff Walk in Newport was
>broad and sandy - it was in the first part, but not the majority! If I had
>known what it was going to be like, I definitely wouldn't have done it. I
>didn't appreciate any of the beauty because I was focused on finishing the
>damned thing as soon as possible, so it was just a big annoying waste.

I hate when people try to "trick" you into something.

Betty

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Subject: Re:      Re: acadiafest
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 00:00:37 -0600
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> > > Women disappear in Morocco?  Under what kinds of circumstances?
> > >
> > I posted some weeks ago about the French movie Doug and I saw over
> > Christmas. Forgot its name. But two women tour Morocco and one gets
> > "stolen" for white slavery purposes. Curled our hair and toes.
>
> Was this a based-on-fact movie?  As I said earlier, I never felt the
> least bit ill at ease in Morocco.  But the mention of that movie
reminds
> me again of how much I liked the movie "Beyond Rangoon," which we have
> discussed here before.  I find it so odd that everybody I've ever
> encountered who has seen that movie (or at least everybody  I've
> encountered who I find out has seen that movie) has loved it, yet it
> seems to be little known.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

It is playing on one of my cable channels right
now and I saw a few minutes of it but have to
wait for another time to see it from the beginning.

I've been trying to rent some foreign movies and
am finding my choices here very limited.  I wanted
the Japanese movie After Life that Karen mentioned,
but can't get it.

Then my daughter told me to go get the Indian
movie "Mitr" and I can't get that.  I particularly
wanted to see that because the female lead is the
cousin of Sara's best friend, and my friend too.
Sara has had lunch in Houston with this actress,
whose name I can't remember and has also
seen the movie and enjoyed it.

                     - D. M.

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Subject: Re: PS re Expiration Dates
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In a message dated 2/21/2003 6:55:08 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< Do y'all think it will be ok that the carrots and celery I bought today
say best used by Feb. 26 and the second of these parties is the 27th?
 >>

I never pay attention to those *best used by* dates. But that's me; although
I never could tell any difference about the taste of it when I used it later.
Theo

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On 21 Feb 2003 at 22:37, alyce cresap wrote:

> Do you have one of these sheets for Namibia?

http://travel.state.gov/namibia.html

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 02:05:40 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: list southerners?
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>>
>>  This showed up on my small publishers' list. Comments?
>
>They struck me as totally normal and in most cases things I'd never
>thought of as regional.  The only one that struck me as at all odd was
>the one about "sweet."  It's a myth that tea in the South is
>automatically sugared.  The only time I can remember having sugared tea
>without being asked whether I wanted it that way was in New England.  I
>hate sugared tea.

So do I -- but in most midAtlantic states I've visited, it's served
that way. I know I've had to ask specifically for unsweetened tea
from about DC down to North Carolina, which is the farthest south
I've been (except Miami).

Janet

--
"Dreaming In Color" - a limited-edition anthology of erotica by
Greenery Press authors - now available at
http://www.greenerypress.com/dreamingincolor.htm . Only 500 will be
printed, so order yours now!

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:12:06 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > I've forgotten almost everything about Latin, but ablative in PIE was
> > (reconstructurally speaking, of course) movement away from a source.
>
> Thank you.

But sometimes PIE's <children> changed some of the case usages.  Iow,
how it (supposedly) worked in PIE might not be how it worked in Latin.
(I think it probably was in this case -- nice pun -- though.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tushar Samant wrote:

> > necessarily agree that it would be politically disastrous).  Personally
> > disastrous?  I don't see that at all.  If in fact CP thinks that Dubya's
> > warmongering is wrong, I cannot imagine a better way to return to being
> > able to sleep at night with a clear conscience than saying, "Enough!
> > This is BS.  I can't be part of it."
>
> What a lame definition of "personal" ... you make "sleeping well"
> out as some absolute thing,

I wasn't aware that I'd given a <definition> of "personal" nor that
"sleeping well" was made out as some absolute thing.

> and compensating for losing friends,
> losing a future, and probably being vilified as treacherous and
> cowardly for a long time to come. This is a point of no return...

What an <unpleasant> life CP must have if his only friends are
warmongers and would desert him.  Re "losing a future," I'm not sure
that he is seeking a political future, is he?  Iirc, he had to be
persuaded to be in his current position -- he'd been planning on moving
out of the limelight.  And I don't see that he would be vilified as
treacherous and cowardly by most people.  I think he would be seen as a
hero by many.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:
> > This is all sounding almost as if Harry Bellefonte was right in what he
> > said about CP (though there was no need for him to use the metaphor he
> > used).
>
> What did he say?

I don't remember the exact wording but it was something about being
Dubya's "house slave."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:18:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > known what it was going to be like, I definitely wouldn't have done it. I
> > didn't appreciate any of the beauty because I was focused on finishing the
> > damned thing as soon as possible, so it was just a big annoying waste.
>
> Why didn't you turn around and come back?

Turning around on a narrow ledge can be scarier than continuing to move
forward.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:21:12 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> I've been trying to rent some foreign movies and
> am finding my choices here very limited.  I wanted
> the Japanese movie After Life that Karen mentioned,
> but can't get it.

Sometimes it takes detective work.  I remember discovering at Movie
Gallery here a number of years ago that the Japanese movie "Black Rain"
was not only shelved in a non-foreign section but was in fact in a wrong
box -- it was in the box for the American movie of that same name.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 07:27:28 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 07:24:35 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> > What did he say?
>
> I don't remember the exact wording but it was something about being
> Dubya's "house slave."

Here's the whole quotation:

"There's an old saying," Belafonte said.
                  "In the days of slavery, there were those
                  slaves who lived on the plantation and
                  [there] were those slaves that lived in the
                  house. You got the privilege of living in
                  the house if you served the master ...
                  exactly the way the master intended to
                  have you serve him.

                  "Colin Powell's committed to come into
                  the house of the master. When Colin
                  Powell dares to suggest something
                  other than what the master wants to
                  hear, he will be turned back out to
                  pasture."

from: http://www.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/10/09/powell.belafonte/

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 08:25:20 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:12:29 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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It rained all day yesterday and is to rain all day today. We have flood
warnings all over the place. Trees are being uprooted, etc. This sucks.

Yes, I am whining about the weather! As long as the weekend rain pattern
continues, I shall assert my right to whine.

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 08:32:56 2003
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>Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > These are cartons of already cut celery and carrots floating in water.
>
>This, too, is new to me. I can see that I am missing out on a lot by not
>shopping.

New to me also.  But then I would never think of buying something like
that.   I have more time than money and am perfectly willing to cut up my
own celery and carrots which is something I do when I host stitch'n'bitch.

>I am very eager to know more about this. If arrests are to be made for
>anti-bush e-mailing, surely I will be picked up soon.
>alyce

I was watching a rather decent movie the other morning, while knitting,
about the McCarthy-era hearings and how they went after Hollywood.  It was
rather scary.  I wonder if it will come to that again:  Individuals turned
as communists because someone had a personal or professional grudge against
them.   Witnesses being hounded and forced to name others who were pictured
at anti-nuclear rallies.   Etc. Etc.  Do you suppose the FBI is once more
filing photos of all the peace rallies and starting folders on participants?


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 08:34:05 2003
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At 09:12 AM 2/22/2003 -0500, bethany moaned:
>It rained all day yesterday and is to rain all day today. We have flood
>warnings all over the place. Trees are being uprooted, etc. This sucks.

Hey, it's East Tennessee.  One year (early to mid-70s) it rained every day
in February, culminating in a monster storm that flooded me (and lots of
others) out of our motel near the Chattanooga airport.  I ended up
abandoning my rental car, hitching a ride to Nashville with some tourists,
and waiting all day to get a seat on a plane to Knoxville.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 08:37:36 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> Yes, I am whining about the weather! As long as the weekend rain pattern
> continues, I shall assert my right to whine.

But look at the silver lining:  You don't have to worry about muddy
pawprints all over your floor when you open the doors to party guests --
or mud and doghair on the bedspread they're going to put coats on.  This
house is not a good rainhouse.  I miss the mud-colored carpet I had in
my previous house.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 08:41:44 2003
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Evelyn:

>He should keep the roundtable discussion, have Larry Miller on
>every week, and drop the stand-up.

You have HBO? I dropped it back when I was trying to be
thrifty...

-rashmi




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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 08:41:47 2003
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bonniev wrote:

> New to me also.  But then I would never think of buying something like
> that.   I have more time than money and am perfectly willing to cut up my
> own celery and carrots which is something I do when I host stitch'n'bitch.

I'm getting more and more worried about the time situation.  I was
sitting here pondering it just a few minutes ago -- classes Monday
morning, meetings until late Monday afternoon, Beans & Greens dinner
Monday night (which I may just have to skip), all-day obligations
Tuesday, party at 5.  I should have gone with the chicken curry balls
again instead of the ham-cheese pinwheels.  All the balls have to do is
thaw.  No slicing etc.  And I need to make the quick pate spread sort of
late in the scheme since it's better when not too old.  (I'm going to
make it twice -- once for each party -- not make it in one big mess.)
And there's the housecleaning.  I've simply got to do it this weekend,
but that will leave Spencer lots of time to mess it up again.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:42:55 -0500
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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>"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:
> >  Others may be interested in this excerpt from the current
> > State Department consular information sheet on Morocco:
>
>Yes, I am interested, because my life is not charmed. Nor was I planning
>to go to Morocco, of course.
>
>Do you have one of these sheets for Namibia?
>alyce

Or the USA?   Or Italy?


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 08:47:20 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:43:09 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:
>
> On 21 Feb 2003 at 22:37, alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > Do you have one of these sheets for Namibia?
>
> http://travel.state.gov/namibia.html

Land mines are certainly a plus.

alyce
--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 08:47:23 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Bill Maher's new show
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> He should keep the roundtable discussion, have Larry Miller on
> every week, and drop the stand-up.
>
> Evelyn Duncan
> brandykitt@aol.com
> This account protected by an attack sheep.

Where is his show and when?

           - D. M.

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bonniev wrote:
>  I wonder if it will come to that again:  Individuals turned
> as communists because someone had a personal or professional grudge against
> them.

They may not be called communists, but the principle is the same and it
is happening now. Hundreds of people are being held without lawyers,
without anyone even being able to find out who or where they are. It is
scarier than McCarthy days to me.

>  Witnesses being hounded and forced to name others who were pictured
> at anti-nuclear rallies.

Yes.

> Do you suppose the FBI is once more
> filing photos of all the peace rallies and starting folders on participants?

Yes.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 09:02:23 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Way to go, Turkey, with the hard bargain until Washington
comes up with the appropriate bribe, erm, "package".

Tukey's been milking this for a while- poor Argentina gets a
lecture while Turkey got $10B in IMF aid.

Good time to be a Security Council member too, I s'pose.

-rashmi





_________________________________________________________________
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> bonniev wrote:
> >  I wonder if it will come to that again:  Individuals turned
> > as communists because someone had a personal or professional grudge
against
> > them.
>
> They may not be called communists, but the principle is the same and
it
> is happening now. Hundreds of people are being held without lawyers,
> without anyone even being able to find out who or where they are. It
is
> scarier than McCarthy days to me.
>
> >  Witnesses being hounded and forced to name others who were pictured
> > at anti-nuclear rallies.
>
> Yes.
>
> > Do you suppose the FBI is once more
> > filing photos of all the peace rallies and starting folders on
participants?
>
> Yes.
>
> alyce

The FBI and the CIA were allowed to fall
into such a sorry state I doubt very much
they are capable of doing any of this.
They have become a joke, not a threat.

                  - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 09:08:34 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> >Do you have one of these sheets for Namibia?
> >alyce
>
> Or the USA?   Or Italy?

I don't think the US gov't includes the US in its travel info, but
surely other countries do.  The US website is here:

http://travel.state.gov/travel_warnings.html

I find it odd that many of you seem to be newbies at reading such info.
It's fun to do sometimes even if you're not planning any travel.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:05:52 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> The FBI and the CIA were allowed to fall
> into such a sorry state I doubt very much
> they are capable of doing any of this.
> They have become a joke, not a threat.

Do you doubt that people (including US citizens and legal immigrants)
are being held without access to legal counsel and without their
families knowing where they are? Please believe it.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 09:10:51 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> Way to go, Turkey, with the hard bargain until Washington
> comes up with the appropriate bribe, erm, "package".

It's a good thing I'm not in <the political arena>.  I realize more and
more with every passing day that I'm way too idealistic for it.  The
it's-all-about-money mentality depresses me.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:11:23 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> > > Do you suppose the FBI is once more
> > > filing photos of all the peace rallies and starting folders on
> participants?
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > alyce
>
> The FBI and the CIA were allowed to fall
> into such a sorry state I doubt very much
> they are capable of doing any of this.
> They have become a joke, not a threat.

I don't think there's ever been a time when they weren't keeping files
on people.  I don't know how thorough the filing system is -- like
whether they have pictures of all peace rallies etc.  I sort of doubt
it.  But I for sure they that they do now and have for years had plenty
of files on plenty of people.  It's what they're beginning to do with
the files that is scary.  And the secrecy of things like why this person
was yanked about from the library.  It may have been for a very good
reason, but I think we should be told that reason.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: PS re Expiration Dates
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> I don't think there's ever been a time when they weren't keeping files
> on people.  I don't know how thorough the filing system is -- like
> whether they have pictures of all peace rallies etc.  I sort of doubt
> it.  But I for sure they that they do now and have for years had
plenty
> of files on plenty of people.  It's what they're beginning to do with
> the files that is scary.  And the secrecy of things like why this
person
> was yanked about from the library.  It may have been for a very good
> reason, but I think we should be told that reason.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Girls, I have neither time nor inclination to
argue today as I may be going out of town.
So talk among yourselves.  You will be in
perfect agreement and happy in your
mutual paranoia.

                            - D. M.

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:22:11 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Bill Maher's new show
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In a message dated 02/22/2003 8:44:53 AM Central Standard Time,
dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM writes:

<<
Where is his show and when?

>>

It's on the various HBO channels during the week; new shows are
11:30 PM Fridays on HBO.

I miss Politically Incorrect.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 09:28:32 2003
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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Bill Maher's new show
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In a message dated 02/22/2003 8:39:31 AM Central Standard Time,
rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<<
You have HBO? I dropped it back when I was trying to be
thrifty...


>>

Yeah, it came in the cable package:  HBO, Starz, and Encore.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 09:37:46 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:34:50 +0000
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>alyce, on Wolfowitz:
> >To me he is as bad as Saddam.

>That pesky Wolfy, his mom always warned us he'd
>kill his neighbors and gas his family.

Pete and other prog-bloggers, please note-this (Alyce's) kind
of broad brush is guaranteed to make readers lose sight of
every other point you make.

A week after the world-wide protests I remain unswayed
by the anti-war folk. I'm for the war I guess. Not because
Powell convinced me with his recycled, stretchy evidence
or British intelligence's plagiarized reports but because
Washington cannot lose credibility at this stage.

"If the United States marches 200,000 troops into the
region and then marches them back out . . . the
credibility of American power . . . will be gravely,
perhaps irreparably impaired." - Henry Kissinger.

The world cannot afford this. So I hold my nose and
say yay for war (not that anyone asked me). Also,
there's every possibility that the Iraqi army will fall
quickly and Saddam will be ousted easily. So I hope
for that and cast my lot with Wolfy.

Other reasons for holding my nose - the Bushies
line that we are good, we are always good, everything
we do is good - everyone else is evil - how quiuckly
they all forget that Washington sold weapons and
chemical technology to Saddam after he'd killed
massive numbers of Iranians. We weren't always so
good, were we?.

The other thing that bothers me about the administration
is how they seem to not even want to contemplate
how events might unfold in ways other than Wolfowitz and
his buds envision. Have they forgotten Osama already?
Two events resonsible for Osama's rise - the CIA arming
the mujahadeen in Afghanistan and Washington stationing
troops in Saudi Arabia after the first Gulf war.

I think I would trust them a little more if they
acknowledged some of these things -anyhow best to hope
for now is a quick end to the war and easy ouster of
Saddam.

Enough rambling.
-rashmi






_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
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At 09:25 AM 2/22/2003 -0600, Doris Markland wrote:
> > I don't think there's ever been a time when they weren't keeping files
> > on people.  I don't know how thorough the filing system is -- like
> > whether they have pictures of all peace rallies etc.  I sort of doubt
> > it.  But I for sure they that they do now and have for years had
>plenty
> > of files on plenty of people.  It's what they're beginning to do with
> > the files that is scary.  And the secrecy of things like why this
>person
> > was yanked about from the library.  It may have been for a very good
> > reason, but I think we should be told that reason.
> >
> > --
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>Girls, I have neither time nor inclination to
>argue today as I may be going out of town.
>So talk among yourselves.  You will be in
>perfect agreement and happy in your
>mutual paranoia.
>
>                             - D. M.

Girls?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 09:41:15 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:38:19 +0000
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Evelyn:

>Yeah, it came in the cable package:  HBO, Starz, and Encore.

I need to look into this. I can't take reality shows and that's all
there seems to be on teevee anymore.

Giving up tv is out of the question.

-rashmi





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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 09:48:57 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:44:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> "If the United States marches 200,000 troops into the
> region and then marches them back out . . . the
> credibility of American power . . . will be gravely,
> perhaps irreparably impaired." - Henry Kissinger.

So we should kill thousands of people in order to save face? Wouldn't we
actually gain in prestige if we marched the troops home without firing a
shot?

Note to Rashmi--sorry about my broad brush remarks. I could document and
explain in detail why I say/think what I do, but it would be cumbersome
and long.

alyce

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
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At 03:38 PM 2/22/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>Evelyn:
>
>>Yeah, it came in the cable package:  HBO, Starz, and Encore.
>
>I need to look into this. I can't take reality shows and that's all
>there seems to be on teevee anymore.
>
>Giving up tv is out of the question.

Some people are keeping HBO just to get Six Feet Under. We don't subscribe
either. I always felt it was cheaper to rent the movies they show when we
feel like watching a movie.

Betty

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In a message dated 02/22/2003 9:38:42 AM Central Standard Time,
rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<<
I need to look into this. I can't take reality shows and that's all
there seems to be on teevee anymore.

Giving up tv is out of the question.


>>

The only reality shows I like are COPS and the funny video shows
on ABC and Animal Planet.

It's strange being home on Saturday.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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There was an article in the paper this morning about how the national
FBI wants the local agencies to count the number of mosques in the
area, and the local one here is balking.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:00:48 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> In a message dated 02/22/2003 9:38:42 AM Central Standard Time,
> rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
> <<
> I need to look into this. I can't take reality shows and that's all
> there seems to be on teevee anymore.
>
> Giving up tv is out of the question.
>
>
>
>
> The only reality shows I like are COPS and the funny video shows
> on ABC and Animal Planet.
>
> It's strange being home on Saturday.
>

        We don't have anything but regular TV.  I think COPS

is hilarious.  I was also into Joe Millionaire at the end.
My students were making fun of me because I made them do a
journal entry on it :).




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:01:08 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>        That's what the piece of paper says.  Maybe it is because
>>he's looking at my kidneys.
>>
>
> I suppose. I know that the dye I get is to increase the contrast of the
> picture. It makes you feel very hot and like you're wetting your pants,
> but you're not. I don't know anything about drinking stuff.
>

        This sounds unpleasant.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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At 09:05 AM 2/22/2003 -0600, natalie wrote:
>I find it odd that many of you seem to be newbies at reading such info.
>It's fun to do sometimes even if you're not planning any travel.

Many probably don't like to chase URLs the way you do.

cwv

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Rashmi Murthy writes,

>Pete and other prog-bloggers, please note-this (Alyce's) kind
>of broad brush is guaranteed to make readers lose sight of
>every other point you make.

Thanks.  Although for me, that's pretty close to the only point I want to
make: that the Administration is a bunch of self-interested gangsters, and
they're either stupid or evil enough to harm world peace and America
herself to get their way.  This benefits a few rich people, and hurts
everyone else.

>because Washington cannot lose credibility at this stage.

I think Washington has already lost a huge amount of credibility.  And
doing the right thing (which may be war, if it's fighting alongside the UN,
instead of against it) increases credibility.

>"If the United States marches 200,000 troops into the
>region and then marches them back out . . . the
>credibility of American power . . . will be gravely,
>perhaps irreparably impaired." - Henry Kissinger.

The credibility of the Administration will be gravely impaired; I think
that's significantly different than the credibility of American power.

The Bush Administration has no one to blame for that loss of credibility
than themselves.

>The world cannot afford this. So I hold my nose and
>say yay for war (not that anyone asked me).

I can't see this as any differently than "He made me put a gun to his
head.  And now if I don't pull the trigger, I'll look like a fool."

The foolish action was the Administration wedging itself into that dilemma
in the first place.

So what's the right thing to do now?  Pull the trigger, and look like a
murdering bully to the rest of the world?  Or holster the gun and look like
a conflicted bully with maybe a conscience?  Or at least wait until a
couple other people point their guns at Saddam's head, too?

If you really say the right thing to do is to pull the trigger, I hope you
also say that when the credibility of American power is safe again, the
idiots who forced that Hobson's choice must be removed from power, instead
of being empowered to do it again.

>Also, there's every possibility that the Iraqi army will fall
>quickly and Saddam will be ousted easily.

Sure, the Iraqi army will fall quickly, probably at the cost of thousands
of direct civilian casualties, and tens or hundreds of thousands of
indirect ones.  Maybe that's a hard choice we should make, if we're really
earnest about rebuilding Iraq afterwards, instead of leaving it as a
destitute hellhole the way we did last time.

Saddam?  How will he be ousted?  How will we kill him?  He is so
entrenched, I find it hard to believe we'll catch him.  Likely he'll turn
into another Osama bin Laden, slipped through the fingers of "American
power," damaging its credibility in subtle yet powerful ways.  Not that
Washington will acknowledge it.

>So I hope for that and cast my lot with Wolfy.

Good luck.  I will when the Security Council does.  Not because the
Security Council is right, but because that's how a civil society works, by
making it look like it's following its own rules (however that works out
behind closed doors).

>I think I would trust them a little more if they
>acknowledged some of these things -anyhow best to hope
>for now is a quick end to the war and easy ouster of
>Saddam.

I'd love to see Saddam smoked out.  And if that happens without a shot
fired, I'll be happy to call Bush a genius of brinkmanship.

Pete

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Rashmi Murthy quotes,

>gravely, perhaps irreparably impaired." - Henry Kissinger.

Maureen Dowd, in response to that quote: "The painful parts of Washington
history have often been about men trying harder to save face than lives."

<http://tinyurl.com/5wu9> (New York Times)

Pete

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: rain whine
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Bethany K. Dumas:
= It rained all day yesterday and is to rain all day today. We have flood
= warnings all over the place. Trees are being uprooted, etc. This sucks.
=
= Yes, I am whining about the weather! As long as the weekend rain pattern
= continues, I shall assert my right to whine.
=

Love it or leave it.

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:55:14 -0500
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>         This sounds unpleasant.

It doesn't last long and I have had worse experiences, like the barium
enema.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 10:57:26 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I just got back from grocery shopping and remembered to look again at
the tuna fish descriptions to see whether any of it was in oil.  Once
again there was none -- of the size I buy.  But that latter may explain
the discrepancy in our experiences.  I noticed that there was plenty of
oiled larger cans.  I hadn't paid attention to that before since I don't
ever have need of larger cans.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:02:26 2003
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> > I don't think there's ever been a time when they weren't keeping files
> > on people.  I don't know how thorough the filing system is -- like
> > whether they have pictures of all peace rallies etc.  I sort of doubt
> > it.  But I for sure they that they do now and have for years had
> plenty
> > of files on plenty of people.  It's what they're beginning to do with
> > the files that is scary.  And the secrecy of things like why this
> person
> > was yanked about from the library.  It may have been for a very good
> > reason, but I think we should be told that reason.

> Girls, I have neither time nor inclination to
> argue today as I may be going out of town.
> So talk among yourselves.  You will be in
> perfect agreement and happy in your
> mutual paranoia.

Paranoia?  I feel no paranoia at all.  Nor did I think this was an
<argument>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:06:09 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:03:14 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> "If the United States marches 200,000 troops into the
> region and then marches them back out . . . the
> credibility of American power . . . will be gravely,
> perhaps irreparably impaired." - Henry Kissinger.

I thought one of the goals of the troop buildup was supposed to be to
scare Saddam -- sabre rattling.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:03:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Just got this info from the biblio list and thought you might like to
explore, if you haven't already.

Lynn, Try this link.  It is to a web forum, this particular one being
for
tropical plants outside of tropical climes.
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/tropesque/
This is a nice gardening web forum group.  Here is the link to the list
of
forums.  There is something for just about any
gardener-anywhere.  http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> I just got back from grocery shopping and remembered to look again at
> the tuna fish descriptions to see whether any of it was in oil.  Once
> again there was none -- of the size I buy.  But that latter may explain
> the discrepancy in our experiences.  I noticed that there was plenty of
> oiled larger cans.  I hadn't paid attention to that before since I don't
> ever have need of larger cans.

Size should not be a factor. I can get small cans with oil.
Perhaps it sells out because it is more popular than water, or maybe
W*****t just does not stock it.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Paranoia?  I feel no paranoia at all.  Nor did I think this was an
> <argument>.

Me either. Thought it was just girl talk.

alyce

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>I need to look into this. I can't take reality shows and that's all
>there seems to be on teevee anymore.
>-rashmi

I saw a thing in the paper the idea about how ironic it is that, with this
new spate of reality shows, Survivor is actually beginning to look tame and
wholesome.  Indeed.  I especially find offensive this new show "Hot or
Not".   I haven't actually seen it.  But I've read descriptions of how the
panel goes over a person's physical flaws, one by one, in great detail,
until the contestant is in tears.   I think some of all of this is a back
lash at how politically correct we must be at work and in daily
life.   Perhaps that's why many cheer and laugh when others are humiliated
on quiz shows or reality programs.  Finally, mean as it is, someone is
saying what they really think.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:12:17 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:09:59 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: rain whine
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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steph wrote:

> Bethany K. Dumas:
> = It rained all day yesterday and is to rain all day today. We have flood
> = warnings all over the place. Trees are being uprooted, etc. This sucks.
> =
> = Yes, I am whining about the weather! As long as the weekend rain pattern
> = continues, I shall assert my right to whine.
> =
>
> Love it or leave it.


        It's slushing here.  The panic-monger weather people are
predicting 4 - 6 for tomorrow, which should paralyze the
area for a couple of days.  I don't want snow days -- I have
plans for June!




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:12:54 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:09:56 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
> >I find it odd that many of you seem to be newbies at reading such info.
> >It's fun to do sometimes even if you're not planning any travel.
>
> Many probably don't like to chase URLs the way you do.

I'm not sure that you and I use "chasing URLs" in the same way.  I use
that term when talking about going to urls people post in e-mail.  I
don't usually chase those urls unless I'm feeling very leisurely or know
that it's something I definitely want to see.  I spend lots of time
going to urls otherwise.  Reading online news, for example, is my
primary source of news.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:16:14 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:11:53 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>         It's slushing here.

It's raining here and is very dark and depressing. I laid down for a
respite after cleaning in the kitchen and fell right to sleep because of
the darkness. I lost an hour of my Saturday.

> The panic-monger weather people are
> predicting 4 - 6 for tomorrow,

Ours say the same for Albany and northward, but probably only 1-3 here.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:18:32 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:14:46 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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   I noticed that there was plenty of
>oiled larger cans.  I hadn't paid attention to that before since I don't
>ever have need of larger cans.    -- Natalie

The tuna in olive oil that Clyde buys comes in a minuscule can.  Really small.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:20:31 2003
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>I thought one of the goals of the troop buildup was supposed to be to
>scare Saddam -- sabre rattling.     -- Natalie

But I'll bet that isn't working so well anymore now that half the world is
marching for peace.   The old phrase "giving comfort to the enemy" comes to
mind.


    --bonniev

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>fell right to sleep because of
>the darkness. I lost an hour of my Saturday.

I'd consider that an hour well spent.   Food and rest are both very good
things for you.  Have you eaten all the cashews I sent yet?

>Ours say the same for Albany and northward, but probably only 1-3 here.
>alyce

We are supposed to get 1-3 of snow, then 1/2 to 3/4 of ice, then all rain.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:22:29 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: rain whine
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>        It's slushing here.
>>
>
> It's raining here and is very dark and depressing. I laid down for a
> respite after cleaning in the kitchen and fell right to sleep because of
> the darkness. I lost an hour of my Saturday.
>
>
>>The panic-monger weather people are
>>predicting 4 - 6 for tomorrow,
>>
>
> Ours say the same for Albany and northward, but probably only 1-3 here.


        If it would quit snowing, my crocuses are within a couple of
days of blooming, and Kira is shedding like crazy -- spring
is just around the corner.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:26:27 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 12:22:41 -0500
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
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>        If it would quit snowing, my crocuses are within a couple of
>days of blooming, and Kira is shedding like crazy -- spring
>is just around the corner.     --Rita Rouvalis Chapman

I don't think that corner is  visible from here.  Clyde just said the other
day that we might be able to use the five-foot-high snow bank next to our
deck to cool the beer on July 4th.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:27:06 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Karen Kay wrote:
>>  > This is all sounding almost as if Harry Bellefonte was right in what he
>>  > said about CP (though there was no need for him to use the metaphor he
>>  > used).
>>
>>  What did he say?
>
>I don't remember the exact wording but it was something about being
>Dubya's "house slave."

Maybe he used the word "slave" in public, but I bet that's not the
word he uses among friends.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:29:24 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:28:08 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: PS re Expiration Dates
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>I was watching a rather decent movie the other morning, while knitting,
>about the McCarthy-era hearings and how they went after Hollywood.  It was
>rather scary.  I wonder if it will come to that again:  Individuals turned
>as communists because someone had a personal or professional grudge against
>them.   Witnesses being hounded and forced to name others who were pictured
>at anti-nuclear rallies.   Etc. Etc.  Do you suppose the FBI is once more
>filing photos of all the peace rallies and starting folders on participants?

Do you honestly think they've ever stopped?

Janet

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:30:57 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
In-reply-to: <200302220747.18MBS3yB3NZFlq0@merlin>
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>At 03:38 PM 2/22/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>>Evelyn:
>>
>>>Yeah, it came in the cable package:  HBO, Starz, and Encore.
>>
>>I need to look into this. I can't take reality shows and that's all
>>there seems to be on teevee anymore.
>>
>>Giving up tv is out of the question.
>
>Some people are keeping HBO just to get Six Feet Under. We don't subscribe
>either. I always felt it was cheaper to rent the movies they show when we
>feel like watching a movie.

That's exactly why I keep HBO (it starts again in two weeks, yay!),
but I often wind up watching movies on the various HBO stations.
Mostly I use the TV for watching West Wing and lulling myself to
sleep with old sitcoms. (There was a Bosom Buddies marathon last
night, but I got home quite late and fell asleep almost immediately
so I didn't get to watch more than about 5 mins. of it.)

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:33:16 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 09:32:01 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
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>  > The only reality shows I like are COPS and the funny video shows
>  > on ABC and Animal Planet.



>         We don't have anything but regular TV.  I think COPS
>is hilarious.

One of the things I like about not being with Jay is that nobody ever
watches COPS in my house.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:36:36 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:34:29 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: rain whine
Message-ID: <20030222183429.B23265@yoccoz.multinix.com>
References: <Pine.GSO.4.21.0302220910570.16024-100000@larry.cas.utk.edu>
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= >>The panic-monger weather people are
= >>predicting 4 - 6 for tomorrow,
= >>
= >
= > Ours say the same for Albany and northward, but probably only 1-3 here.
=
=
=         If it would quit snowing, my crocuses are within a couple of
= days of blooming, and Kira is shedding like crazy -- spring
= is just around the corner.
=

We have been having days of sunny dry freezing weather.  Very
unusual for here.  We slept in this morning, and then went to the
cheap supermarket for a gross of cans of generic cola and orange,
munchies and other goodies.  Then we ran off to the garden center
and got more tubs for planting, dirt and compost.  Somewhere in
there we grabbed some lunch, took some pictures of wrought iron
balconies we liked, dropped off the film, picked up the other
roll (which has one wonderful picture of my niece in her Ajax
football kit and a great one of my brother and his wife), filled
the tank and ran the car through the car wash.

I think we'll have spaghetti and some soy bolognese sauce for
dinner in an hour or so, and then I think I'll be in bed by ten
because I'm pooped already.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:40:19 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:38:12 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: rain whine
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steph:
= = >>The panic-monger weather people are
= = >>predicting 4 - 6 for tomorrow,
= = >>
= = >
= = > Ours say the same for Albany and northward, but probably only 1-3 here.
= =
= =
= =         If it would quit snowing, my crocuses are within a couple of
= = days of blooming, and Kira is shedding like crazy -- spring
= = is just around the corner.
= =
=
= We have been having days of sunny dry freezing weather.  Very
= unusual for here.  We slept in this morning, and then went to the

Oh, I forgot, the whole thing that got me started was that on
that roll of film were pictures of all of our bulbs that we
planted in the fall coming up.  Admittedly some of them started
to come up pretty much the instant they were planted, but now all
of them are up.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:40:59 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: geography is destiny
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:38:03 +0000
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Natalie:

> > Way to go, Turkey, with the hard bargain until Washington
> > comes up with the appropriate bribe, erm, "package".

>It's a good thing I'm not in <the political arena>.  I realize more and
>more with every passing day that I'm way too idealistic for it.  The
>it's-all-about-money mentality depresses me.

Checkbook dilomacy at its best. Add in a little arm-twisting
and you get principle.

-rashmi

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:45:00 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 11:42:37 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>>  > The only reality shows I like are COPS and the funny video shows
>>  > on ABC and Animal Planet.
>
>
>
>
>>         We don't have anything but regular TV.  I think COPS
>> is hilarious.
>
>
> One of the things I like about not being with Jay is that nobody ever
> watches COPS in my house.
>


        That makes sense.  I think I find it funny because I worked
in the courts for awhile and I know what happens after the
arrest.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: rain whine
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bonniev wrote:
> Have you eaten all the cashews I sent yet?

There are maybe 10 pieces left. I have enjoyed them very much. THey are
on the dining room table and I have been grabbing a few almost every
time I pass by. There were a lot of them! I just had three slices of
liverwurst and three slices of white American cheese from the deli.
Older than three days--hope I don't suffer for it.

alyce

alyce

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:50:09 +0000
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bonniev:

>I especially find offensive this new show "Hot or
>Not".   I haven't actually seen it.  But I've read descriptions of how the
>panel goes over a person's physical flaws, one by one, in great detail,
>until the contestant is in tears.

Howard Stern's been doing it for years. But he has 4-5 hours to kill
every day. I haven't seen the show you mention either - doesn't
sound like somthing I'd watch.  "Contestant in tears" must be a
testament to American Idol - another show I can't abide.

-rashmi

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 11:56:01 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:53:01 +0000
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>The tuna in olive oil that Clyde buys comes in a minuscule can.  Really
>small.

Is this the Italian kind - tonno? I like it cuz it's so tiny.

-rashmi

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In a message dated 2/22/2003 8:07:15 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Do you doubt that people (including US citizens and legal immigrants)
are being held without access to legal counsel and without their
families knowing where they are? Please believe it.

alyce

 >>
I know it's happening, and it's scary. It reminds me of the old McCarthy era
too.
Theo

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In a message dated 2/22/2003 9:22:53 AM, kaminski@ISTORI.COM writes:

<< I'd love to see Saddam smoked out.  And if that happens without a shot
fired, I'll be happy to call Bush a genius of brinkmanship.

Pete
 >>

You and me both. Theo

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
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At 05:53 PM 2/22/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:
>>The tuna in olive oil that Clyde buys comes in a minuscule can.  Really
>>small.
>
>Is this the Italian kind - tonno? I like it cuz it's so tiny.

...and good.  The brand I use is Pastene, which seems to be a fairly
standard brand of Italian foods (peppers, pasta, olives, etc.) in the
Northeast.  There is another brand marketed in this area as well.  Pastene
tonno comes in a 3-oz. size and a larger, 5 or 6-oz size. The other brand
apparently only comes in the larger size.

cwv

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:09:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Perhaps it sells out because it is more popular than water,

I am sure that's not it.  I buy tuna fish regularly and am confident
that I am hitting the shelves at all times, as in recently stocked or
not recently stocked.  And I rarely see blank spaces.  Wmart is good
about restocking quickly.

> or maybe
> W*****t just does not stock it.

That's possible, although it would seem odd.  Wmart is by far the
biggest and best of our grocery stores.  There is only one thing I know
of that Wmart doesn't have but another store (Kroger) does have:  Mrs.
Paul's crab globs.  I don't know why Wmart doesn't have that since they
have all of Mrs. Paul's other offerings.  But there are many things that
Wmart has that none of the other stores do.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:11:08 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> panel goes over a person's physical flaws, one by one, in great detail,
> until the contestant is in tears.   I think some of all of this is a back
> lash at how politically correct we must be at work and in daily
> life.   Perhaps that's why many cheer and laugh when others are humiliated
> on quiz shows or reality programs.  Finally, mean as it is, someone is
> saying what they really think.

Sounds like lemon squeezes in junior high.  They weren't as much about
physical flaws as about personality flaws, though.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> The tuna in olive oil that Clyde buys comes in a minuscule can.  Really small.

What's the brand?  I've forgotten the brands Wmart has.  They're the
<normal> ones.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >I thought one of the goals of the troop buildup was supposed to be to
> >scare Saddam -- sabre rattling.     -- Natalie
>
> But I'll bet that isn't working so well anymore now that half the world is
> marching for peace.   The old phrase "giving comfort to the enemy" comes to
> mind.

I don't see the marchers as having much at all to do with the
situation.  I haven't noticed Dubya and Tony toning down their war talk.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:14:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 7:18:49 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Turning around on a narrow ledge can be scarier than continuing to move
> forward.

IME, it's worth it to go back. But this depends on the situation.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:14:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> Maybe he used the word "slave" in public, but I bet that's not the
> word he uses among friends.

You're probably right.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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> > But I'll bet that isn't working so well anymore now that half the world is
> > marching for peace.   The old phrase "giving comfort to the enemy" comes to
> > mind.
>
>I don't see the marchers as having much at all to do with the
>situation.  I haven't noticed Dubya and Tony toning down their war talk.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

No, but I have seen Saddam taking comfort that all those marchers are on
his side.


    --bonniev

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
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>bonniev wrote:
> > The tuna in olive oil that Clyde buys comes in a minuscule can.  Really
> small.
>
>What's the brand?  I've forgotten the brands Wmart has.  They're the
><normal> ones.     -- Natalie

In case you have kill-filed Clyde, here is what he said:

"The brand I use is Pastene, which seems to be a fairly
standard brand of Italian foods (peppers, pasta, olives, etc.) in the
Northeast. There is another brand marketed in this area as well. Pastene
tonno comes in a 3-oz. size and a larger, 5 or 6-oz size. The other brand
apparently only comes in the larger size."


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:18:01 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> >The tuna in olive oil that Clyde buys comes in a minuscule can.  Really
> >small.
>
> Is this the Italian kind - tonno? I like it cuz it's so tiny.

I don't want miniscule cans.  The regular small ones are perfect for me
-- just enough for one tf sandwich.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:18:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 8:29:12 AM, bonniev wrote:
> I was watching a rather decent movie the other morning, while knitting,
> about the McCarthy-era hearings and how they went after Hollywood.  It was
> rather scary.  I wonder if it will come to that again:  Individuals turned
> as communists because someone had a personal or professional grudge against
> them.   Witnesses being hounded and forced to name others who were pictured
> at anti-nuclear rallies.

A guest at my bookgroup spoke rather eloquently on this topic.
The rest of us were too young to remember.

> Do you suppose the FBI is once more filing photos of all the
> peace rallies and starting folders on participants?

Do you suppose they are not?!

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:21:02 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
>
> At 05:53 PM 2/22/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:
> >>The tuna in olive oil that Clyde buys comes in a minuscule can.  Really
> >>small.

> tonno comes in a 3-oz. size and a larger, 5 or 6-oz size. The other brand
> apparently only comes in the larger size.

I'm getting confused.  What comes in the miniscule cans?  The regular
small cans I'm talking about are 3 oz.  Anything larger than that is too
much for one person.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:24:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 9:44:42 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Wouldn't we actually gain in prestige if we marched the troops
> home without firing a shot?

No.

Karen

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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>But look at the silver lining:  You don't have to worry about muddy
>pawprints all over your floor when you open the doors to party guests --
>or mud and doghair on the bedspread they're going to put coats on.  This
>house is not a good rainhouse.  I miss the mud-colored carpet I had in
>my previous house.

Right - I just have to hope I don't drown in mud when I go to feed/groom
Maria.

But I am happy to report that whining work. The sun is shining brightly,
it's in the 60s, and it has not rained now for 3+ hours.

Bethany

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, steph wrote:

>= Yes, I am whining about the weather! As long as the weekend rain pattern
>= continues, I shall assert my right to whine.
>=
>
>Love it or leave it.

Nah - I have learned how to change it!

Bethany

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> A guest at my bookgroup spoke rather eloquently on this topic.
> The rest of us were too young to remember.

I remember the McCarthy times and the House Un-American Activities
Committee (HUAC). As you may have guessed, I have been influenced by it
strongly. For some reason, many people hardly noticed--my parents, for
instance. I've never understood this. Were Doris here, I'd ask if she
remembers, or if she paid no attention like Mother and Daddy.

alyce

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> "clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
> >
> > At 05:53 PM 2/22/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:
> > >>The tuna in olive oil that Clyde buys comes in a minuscule can.  Really
> > >>small.
>
> > tonno comes in a 3-oz. size and a larger, 5 or 6-oz size. The other brand
> > apparently only comes in the larger size.
>
> I'm getting confused.  What comes in the miniscule cans?  The regular
> small cans I'm talking about are 3 oz.  Anything larger than that is too
> much for one person.

3 oz! I never have seen such a small can. The cans I get are 5-1/2 or 6
oz. (in oil or water). Maybe they don't do midgets in oil.

alyce

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bonniev wrote:

> No, but I have seen Saddam taking comfort that all those marchers are on
> his side.

Somehow I don't see him as a person who cares all that much about what
people are thinking.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>

> > We went to Birmingham last night for the Republican Party Annual Dinner and
> > I was awarded "Republican of the Year".  Jack Oliver from the RNC flew in
> > from D.C. to present it to me.  I received a beautiful engraved Waterford bowl.

We can all barf in the Waterford bowl.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> > I was awarded "Republican of the Year".

That reminds me, I just was made an honorary member of the garden club.
No Waterford bowl. But I don't have to pay dues any more.

alyce

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bonniev wrote:

> In case you have kill-filed Clyde, here is what he said:

I read that and have made a mental note of the name, though I bet that
brand is not available.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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This just in from my RRSIL:

> We went to Birmingham last night for the Republican Party Annual Dinner and
> I was awarded "Republican of the Year".  Jack Oliver from the RNC flew in
> from D.C. to present it to me.  I received a beautiful engraved Waterford bowl.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:50:03 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 10:19:52 AM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> At 09:05 AM 2/22/2003 -0600, natalie wrote:
>>I find it odd that many of you seem to be newbies at reading such info.
>>It's fun to do sometimes even if you're not planning any travel.

> Many probably don't like to chase URLs the way you do.

In the old days, I used to get e-mail notices about such things.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:02:18 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 1:42:33 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> That reminds me, I just was made an honorary member of the garden club.
> No Waterford bowl. But I don't have to pay dues any more.

Cool!

Can you tell me why my irises are falling over?

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:13:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 2:07:09 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> To compound the confusion, my store sells cans larger than 5-1/2 oz.
> Family size or something.

You guys made me look. A 'normal can' to me is the 6 oz. size. I
don't remember seeing anything smaller. I have a fewer larger
cans, but they are in the back and I didn't climb on a stool to
look.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:28:41 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 2:20:34 PM, alyce cresap wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>  I thought it was worth a shot.

> Sorry to disappoint.

>> I need to move my lilies.

> Good luck.

I'll need it, especially with the big one. I'm going to try to
dig up the cannas that are under the trees in front, too. They so
seldom bloom.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:46:43 -0600
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alyce cresap wrote:

> I remember the McCarthy times and the House Un-American Activities
> Committee (HUAC). As you may have guessed, I have been influenced by it
> strongly. For some reason, many people hardly noticed--my parents, for
> instance. I've never understood this. Were Doris here, I'd ask if she
> remembers, or if she paid no attention like Mother and Daddy.

I remember my parents following it and worrying about it, though I don't
remember the details of what they said about it exactly.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 14:36:41 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:

> 3 oz! I never have seen such a small can. The cans I get are 5-1/2 or 6
> oz. (in oil or water). Maybe they don't do midgets in oil.

Now I see that miscommunication has been going on (though Clyde said
that the 3-oz cans he gets are in oil).  I don't think of 3-oz cans as
midget cans.  That's the size I've always bought.  I can't imagine that
your grocery store doesn't sell them.  The stores around here seem to
have about 50-50 of 3-oz cans and big cans.  I normally buy them in
three-can cartons.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Natalie Maynor wrote:
> >
> > > I was awarded "Republican of the Year".
>
> That reminds me, I just was made an honorary member of the garden club.
> No Waterford bowl. But I don't have to pay dues any more.

Congratulations!  That is worthy of respect, unlike my RRSIL's
<achievement>.  (I assume, btw, that she meant R of the Year for AL.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 13:52:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 11:14:46 AM, bonniev wrote:
> The tuna in olive oil that Clyde buys comes in a minuscule can.  Really small.

There must be some of this in Austin, but I have yet to find it.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:07:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 11:03:42 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Just got this info from the biblio list and thought you might like to
> explore, if you haven't already.

> Lynn, Try this link.  It is to a web forum, this particular one being
> for
> tropical plants outside of tropical climes.
> http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/tropesque/

Thanks. I've looked up stuff on the web and come across their
forums, but I've decided that gardeners are not the most
articulate people. I've been happy with the local gardening
group--there are a number of professional landscape people on it.

I have to actually get out and work in my yard, now that it's not
raining... I'm planning to actually <gasp> mow tomorrow, for the
first time in several months. And weedwhack.

Karen

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Alyce, I saw a pattern for the cutest socks this morning.  The toes were
individual and made to resemble little piggies.   Maybe one day I'll knit
you a pair.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 14:45:15 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>This just in from my RRSIL:
>
>> We went to Birmingham last night for the Republican Party Annual Dinner and
>> I was awarded "Republican of the Year".  Jack Oliver from the RNC flew in
>> from D.C. to present it to me.  I received a beautiful engraved Waterford bowl.

So what do the rich Repubs do? Or did they inherit all their money?

Bethany

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bonniev wrote:
>
> Alyce, I saw a pattern for the cutest socks this morning.  The toes were
> individual and made to resemble little piggies.   Maybe one day I'll knit
> you a pair.

OK. I have very small "little toes," but the rest are normal sized.

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Can you tell me why my irises are falling over?

They are not set into the ground straight? The ground is all soggy and
they are floating? I don't know. That is why I sent you the gardening
forum address. They must have a segment for iris.

alyce

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 2:09:27 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>> Can you tell me why my irises are falling over?

> They are not set into the ground straight? The ground is all soggy and
> they are floating? I don't know. That is why I sent you the gardening
> forum address. They must have a segment for iris.

Okay.

No, the green part is fine, it's the long flower stalk part
that's falling over. I'll ask my local newsgroup. It's just that
I was here already, and I thought it was worth a shot.

I need to move my lilies.

Karen

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Saturday, February 22, 2003, 2:07:09 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > To compound the confusion, my store sells cans larger than 5-1/2 oz.
> > Family size or something.
>
> You guys made me look. A 'normal can' to me is the 6 oz. size.

Agreed. I said 5-1/2 or 6, without looking.

a;yce

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Karen Kay wrote:
 I thought it was worth a shot.

Sorry to disappoint.

> I need to move my lilies.

Good luck.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > 3 oz! I never have seen such a small can. The cans I get are 5-1/2 or 6
> > oz. (in oil or water). Maybe they don't do midgets in oil.
>
> Now I see that miscommunication has been going on (though Clyde said
> that the 3-oz cans he gets are in oil).  I don't think of 3-oz cans as
> midget cans.  That's the size I've always bought.  I can't imagine that
> your grocery store doesn't sell them.  The stores around here seem to
> have about 50-50 of 3-oz cans and big cans.

To compound the confusion, my store sells cans larger than 5-1/2 oz.
Family size or something.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:07:20 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-22 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > > necessarily agree that it would be politically disastrous).  Personally
> > > disastrous?  I don't see that at all.  If in fact CP thinks that Dubya's
> > > warmongering is wrong, I cannot imagine a better way to return to being
> > > able to sleep at night with a clear conscience than saying, "Enough!
> > > This is BS.  I can't be part of it."
> >
> > What a lame definition of "personal" ... you make "sleeping well"
> > out as some absolute thing,
>
> I wasn't aware that I'd given a <definition> of "personal" nor that
> "sleeping well" was made out as some absolute thing.

Be aware now. Of course we are talking about so many hypotheticals
that this is pretty sterile, but when you make a not quite obvious
choice, sleeping well is pretty dependent on where you stand with
your friends etc, don't you think?

> > and compensating for losing friends,
> > losing a future, and probably being vilified as treacherous and
> > cowardly for a long time to come. This is a point of no return...
>
> What an <unpleasant> life CP must have if his only friends are
> warmongers and would desert him.  Re "losing a future," I'm not sure
> that he is seeking a political future, is he?  Iirc, he had to be
> persuaded to be in his current position -- he'd been planning on moving
> out of the limelight.  And I don't see that he would be vilified as
> treacherous and cowardly by most people.  I think he would be seen as a
> hero by many.

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:08:47 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

They so
> seldom bloom.

Once a year is all they're supposed to do, isn't it? (At least in these
northern climes.)

alyce

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:18:41 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-22 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> "If the United States marches 200,000 troops into the
> region and then marches them back out . . . the
> credibility of American power . . . will be gravely,
> perhaps irreparably impaired." - Henry Kissinger.
>
> The world cannot afford this. So I hold my nose and
> say yay for war (not that anyone asked me). Also,

I guess this is one degree better than being for the war
out of sexual pique against France ...

> acknowledged some of these things -anyhow best to hope
> for now is a quick end to the war and easy ouster of
> Saddam.

This is the play-it-safe immigrant in a nutshell. I THINK
this exactly what will happen but that doesn't mean I am
for it.

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:24:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> I guess this is one degree better than being for the war
> out of sexual pique against France ...

I have seen on the news that various restaurants in America's heartland
have renamed French Fries "Freedom Fries." They are eschewing French
wines, Dijon mustard, and anything else that smacks of Frenchness.
Except for aujus (one word). You know, it comes with prime rib of beef
in a little paper cup.

alyce

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> So what do the rich Repubs do? Or did they inherit all their money?

No inherited money.  All made by slicing around in eyes to the tune of
millions a year (gross).  And, of course, once one has a large pile of
money, it metathesizes.  My RRSIL doesn't hack around on eyes.  Her
<work> is stuff like having fancy parties for other RRs.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> To compound the confusion, my store sells cans larger than 5-1/2 oz.
> Family size or something.

I've seen those also, but I think of the main two sizes as the size I
buy and the size you buy.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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PS: What do you do with the leftover when you open one of those large
cans (the 5.5-oz or whatever it is)?  Do you plan your tunafish eating
so that you'll do it again the following day when you do it one day?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> You guys made me look. A 'normal can' to me is the 6 oz. size. I
> don't remember seeing anything smaller.

Weird.  I don't remember what the sizes were in my childhood, but
throughout my adult life I have regularly bought tunafish, always in the
3-oz cans.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> 02003-02-22 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> > Tushar Samant wrote:
> >
> > > > necessarily agree that it would be politically disastrous).  Personally
> > > > disastrous?  I don't see that at all.  If in fact CP thinks that Dubya's
> > > > warmongering is wrong, I cannot imagine a better way to return to being
> > > > able to sleep at night with a clear conscience than saying, "Enough!
> > > > This is BS.  I can't be part of it."
> > >
> > > What a lame definition of "personal" ... you make "sleeping well"
> > > out as some absolute thing,
> >
> > I wasn't aware that I'd given a <definition> of "personal" nor that
> > "sleeping well" was made out as some absolute thing.
>
> Be aware now. Of course we are talking about so many hypotheticals
> that this is pretty sterile, but when you make a not quite obvious
> choice, sleeping well is pretty dependent on where you stand with
> your friends etc, don't you think?

Yes, I'd say so.  That's why I used it as the example.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> PS: What do you do with the leftover when you open one of those large
> cans (the 5.5-oz or whatever it is)?  Do you plan your tunafish eating
> so that you'll do it again the following day when you do it one day?

I eat the whole thing. Is 5.5 or 6 ounces very much? I don't have much
else with it--some mayonnaise, a little chopped celery and then I put it
on a big leaf of *iceberg* lettuce! If I don't eat 6 ounces, I really
will be thin. How could you eat less?

alyce

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:33:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:08:47 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
> They so
>> seldom bloom.

> Once a year is all they're supposed to do, isn't it? (At least in these
> northern climes.)

Well, I have about 30 cannas under the trees, and one has bloomed
once in two years. I think that qualifies as 'seldom'.

I think cannas need more sun.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 15:36:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:18:41 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> 02003-02-22 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
>> acknowledged some of these things -anyhow best to hope
>> for now is a quick end to the war and easy ouster of
>> Saddam.

> This is the play-it-safe immigrant in a nutshell. I THINK
> this exactly what will happen but that doesn't mean I am
> for it.

It's exactly what my brother says, too. I wonder if he is a
secret immigrant.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:35:06 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:08:47 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> > They so
> >> seldom bloom.
>
> > Once a year is all they're supposed to do, isn't it? (At least in these
> > northern climes.)
>
> Well, I have about 30 cannas under the trees, and one has bloomed
> once in two years. I think that qualifies as 'seldom'.
>
> I think cannas need more sun.

Yes. In future, please describe the situation so that people know what
you are talking about. How could I know that they'd bloomed only once in
two years? Maybe they are dead. Maybe they need fertilizer. Or, as you
say, sun. Or all of the above. They are big suckers to dig up, I know
that.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 15:42:33 2003
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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:35:06 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Yes. In future, please describe the situation so that people know what
> you are talking about. How could I know that they'd bloomed only once in
> two years? Maybe they are dead.

If they were dead, they wouldn't be green.

> Maybe they need fertilizer.

Probably. I'm not a big fertilizer.

> Or, as you say, sun. Or all of the above. They are big suckers
> to dig up, I know that.

I've done it before. There is no question in my mind that I will
mutilate them, which is why I want to do it now.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 15:42:33 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:37:57 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Somebody wrote:
 -anyhow best to hope
> >> for now is a quick end to the war and easy ouster of
> >> Saddam.

It is all well and good to hope for things, but supposing your wish does
not come true. Then what? I will be stunned if they catch/capture/find
Saddam.

alyce

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] The Tuna Matter
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In a message dated 02/22/2003 2:09:05 PM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
To compound the confusion, my store sells cans larger than 5-1/2 oz.
Family size or something.


>>

When Brandy was alive I had to buy the 9 oz. cans:  6 oz. for me and
3 oz. for him.  Sweetie turns up her nose at any tuna other than 9 Lives.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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alyce cresap wrote:

> I eat the whole thing. Is 5.5 or 6 ounces very much? I don't have much
> else with it--some mayonnaise, a little chopped celery and then I put it
> on a big leaf of *iceberg* lettuce! If I don't eat 6 ounces, I really
> will be thin. How could you eat less?

Hmm.  Since I never buy those big cans, I don't know what it would seem
like to be eating that much of it.  I find that the 3-oz cans are the
perfect amount for one tunafish sandwich.  Any more than that wouldn't
fit on the bread.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> > Or, as you say, sun. Or all of the above. They are big suckers
> > to dig up, I know that.
>
> I've done it before. There is no question in my mind that I will
> mutilate them, which is why I want to do it now.

How big are these cannas you're talking about?  I wasn't paying
attention to this discussion, but the cannas I've transplanted have been
easy to transplant and have lived happily ever after.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:44:22 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Hmm.  Since I never buy those big cans, I don't know what it would seem
> like to be eating that much of it.  I find that the 3-oz cans are the
> perfect amount for one tunafish sandwich.  Any more than that wouldn't
> fit on the bread.

There is more to life than one sandwich.

Karen

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Karen Kay wrote:

> > perfect amount for one tunafish sandwich.  Any more than that wouldn't
> > fit on the bread.
>
> There is more to life than one sandwich.

Are you saying that you eat two tunafish sandwiches in a row?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:46:53 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> How big are these cannas you're talking about?  I wasn't paying
> attention to this discussion, but the cannas I've transplanted have been
> easy to transplant and have lived happily ever after.

They basically have no leaves now, because they all got frozen
off. That's why I think it's a good time to move them. But they
have huge roots and the roots are deep. I'm not worried about
them being unhappy after they are moved, though.

What does 'easy to transplant' mean to you? To me, it means easy
to get out of the ground, and that's not true of anything here.

Karen

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:49:18 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > perfect amount for one tunafish sandwich.  Any more than that wouldn't
>> > fit on the bread.
>>
>> There is more to life than one sandwich.

> Are you saying that you eat two tunafish sandwiches in a row?

No. I am saying "There is more to life than one sandwich."

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:58:05 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> If they were dead, they wouldn't be green.

It is a game you play. You failed to say that they are green. I don't
want to play garden with you any more because you ask questions or seek
advice without laying out the facts.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > I eat the whole thing. Is 5.5 or 6 ounces very much? I don't have much
> > else with it--some mayonnaise, a little chopped celery and then I put it
> > on a big leaf of *iceberg* lettuce! If I don't eat 6 ounces, I really
> > will be thin. How could you eat less?
>
> Hmm.  Since I never buy those big cans, I don't know what it would seem
> like to be eating that much of it.  I find that the 3-oz cans are the
> perfect amount for one tunafish sandwich.  Any more than that wouldn't
> fit on the bread.

But I am talking about a tuna fish salad meal, not a sandwich. Some
large spoonsful on a lettuce leaf. I don't know how much tuna fits on a
sandwich, but if it is 3 ounces, you could have another sandwich ready
for the next day with a 6-ounce can.

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:

> What does 'easy to transplant' mean to you? To me, it means easy
> to get out of the ground, and that's not true of anything here.

It means to me easy to get out of the ground and then into the new
ground and easy in mind in knowing that what you're transplanting
doesn't mind abuse.  Cannas seem to me like daylilies in not being very
picky.  I don't always get all of the roots out of the old place when
transplanting -- but sturdy plants like cannas don't seem to care.
They'll sprout replacement roots.  I've got some cannas and daylilies
that I yanked up from my parents' yard on the reservoir and planted at
my previous house and then moved here.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:03:24 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> They basically have no leaves now, because they all got frozen
> off.

So the leaves are green but also frozen off at the same time? That is
unusual. Discuss.

alyce

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] The Tuna Matter
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In a message dated 02/22/2003 3:49:47 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
Are you saying that you eat two tunafish sandwiches in a row?

>>

I do.  I especially like to make tuna melts.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:06:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:49:18 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> >> > perfect amount for one tunafish sandwich.  Any more than that wouldn't
> >> > fit on the bread.
> >>
> >> There is more to life than one sandwich.
>
> > Are you saying that you eat two tunafish sandwiches in a row?
>
> No. I am saying "There is more to life than one sandwich."

That seems like a peculiar way to say that you prefer to eat twice as
much tunafish at one time as I do.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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>PS: What do you do with the leftover when you open one of those large
>cans (the 5.5-oz or whatever it is)?  Do you plan your tunafish eating
>so that you'll do it again the following day when you do it one day?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

To whom is this addressed?   Our 3 oz can is enough to feed the two of us
with a generous treat for our cat during dinner preparation.


    --bonniev

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alyce cresap wrote:

>  I don't know how much tuna fits on a
> sandwich, but if it is 3 ounces, you could have another sandwich ready
> for the next day with a 6-ounce can.

That's why I asked earlier whether you planned your tunafish-eating that
way.  I prefer not to eat it two days in a row.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 16:12:07 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > They basically have no leaves now, because they all got frozen
> > off.
>
> So the leaves are green but also frozen off at the same time? That is
> unusual. Discuss.

I assume that what she means is that if you break the stalk, green is
revealed, as oppose to dead brown.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:09:19 -0600
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:58:05 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> If they were dead, they wouldn't be green.

> It is a game you play. You failed to say that they are green.

A game? I don't understand. I wouldn't try to move something that
wasn't obviously alive. They aren't green right now, but they
were greeening up before the last freeze, and they seem to be
able to come back easily from a freeze.

> I don't want to play garden with you any more because you ask
> questions or seek advice without laying out the facts.

Huh? I didn't ask questions or seek advice about the cannas. They
are fine, they just need to be moved.

About the lilies, you said:
> Good luck.

And I said "I'll need it, especially with the big one. I'm going
to try to dig up the cannas that are under the trees in front,
too. They so seldom bloom."

I'm sorry if you interpreted that as asking a question or seeking
advice. I do try to give enough background when I'm asking a
question, but I wasn't asking anything this time. Cannas are
pretty easy, I think, in that they survive a lot of mutilation.

I'm sorry, Alyce. I'll try to be more explicit in the future.

Karen

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>Somebody wrote:
>  -anyhow best to hope
> > >> for now is a quick end to the war and easy ouster of
> > >> Saddam.
>
>It is all well and good to hope for things, but supposing your wish does
>not come true. Then what? I will be stunned if they catch/capture/find
>Saddam.    --alyce

They don't have to catch, capture, or find him in order to oust him.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:10:43 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 4:05:06 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> What does 'easy to transplant' mean to you? To me, it means easy
>> to get out of the ground, and that's not true of anything here.

> It means to me easy to get out of the ground and then into the new
> ground and easy in mind in knowing that what you're transplanting
> doesn't mind abuse.  Cannas seem to me like daylilies in not being very
> picky.  I don't always get all of the roots out of the old place when
> transplanting -- but sturdy plants like cannas don't seem to care.
> They'll sprout replacement roots.  I've got some cannas and daylilies
> that I yanked up from my parents' yard on the reservoir and planted at
> my previous house and then moved here.

I agree that cannas are 'sturdy'. But nothing is easy to get out
of the ground here, though I'm trying to fix that.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:11:32 -0600
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 4:06:49 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>> Saturday, February 22, 2003, 3:49:18 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>> > Karen Kay wrote:
>> >> > perfect amount for one tunafish sandwich.  Any more than that wouldn't
>> >> > fit on the bread.
>> >>
>> >> There is more to life than one sandwich.
>>
>> > Are you saying that you eat two tunafish sandwiches in a row?
>>
>> No. I am saying "There is more to life than one sandwich."

> That seems like a peculiar way to say that you prefer to eat twice as
> much tunafish at one time as I do.

I agree that it would be--if that's what I had said. Luckily,
it's not.

Karen

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bonniev wrote:
>
> To whom is this addressed?   Our 3 oz can is enough to feed the two of us
> with a generous treat for our cat during dinner preparation.

I do not understand. That is like one forkful of food only.

alyce

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bonniev wrote:
>
> >PS: What do you do with the leftover when you open one of those large
> >cans (the 5.5-oz or whatever it is)?  Do you plan your tunafish eating
> >so that you'll do it again the following day when you do it one day?
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> To whom is this addressed?   Our 3 oz can is enough to feed the two of us
> with a generous treat for our cat during dinner preparation.

I think it was addressed to Alyce, though then Karen and Evelyn said
that they also use big cans.  I would think three ounces wouldn't be
enough for two adults and a cat.  I had always assumed that those larger
cans (5 or 6 or whatever ounces) were designed for two people.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 16:16:46 2003
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> That's why I asked earlier whether you planned your tunafish-eating that
> way.  I prefer not to eat it two days in a row.

You asked Karen that. As I said early on, I eat mine at one sitting as a
salad, not a sandwich, despite the fact that I have just learned that
1-1/2 oz is the proper serving size.

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:

> I agree that cannas are 'sturdy'. But nothing is easy to get out
> of the ground here, though I'm trying to fix that.

Why are things not easy to get out of the ground there?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> >> No. I am saying "There is more to life than one sandwich."
>
> > That seems like a peculiar way to say that you prefer to eat twice as
> > much tunafish at one time as I do.
>
> I agree that it would be--if that's what I had said. Luckily,
> it's not.

Then I have no idea what your point was.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:14:09 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
> They don't have to catch, capture, or find him in order to oust him.

How will it happen, then? How can you oust what you cannot see, do not
have? Do you think he'll just go to live in a bunker forever with no one
knowing where he is?

alyce

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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > That's why I asked earlier whether you planned your tunafish-eating that
> > way.  I prefer not to eat it two days in a row.
>
> You asked Karen that. As I said early on, I eat mine at one sitting as a
> salad, not a sandwich, despite the fact that I have just learned that
> 1-1/2 oz is the proper serving size.

Actually, it was you I asked, but I remember now that it was a PS I
added right after replying to your posting and that it would be easy not
to associate it with what it was a PS to.  I hadn't read Karen's posting
yet at the time I asked that question, nor had I gotten to yours about
eating it as a salad at one sitting.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

they seem to be
> able to come back easily from a freeze.

I hope so. I guess your frost was not heavy. Here, we have to dig them
up before frost, dry them out and plant again in the spring.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 16:21:53 2003
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>bonniev wrote:
> > To whom is this addressed?   Our 3 oz can is enough to feed the two of us
> > with a generous treat for our cat during dinner preparation.
>
>I do not understand. That is like one forkful of food only.
>alyce

Clyde makes a big salad with the tuna.   There are many, many things on the
salad besides the tuna.


    --bonniev

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>You asked Karen that. As I said early on, I eat mine at one sitting as a
>salad, not a sandwich, despite the fact that I have just learned that
>1-1/2 oz is the proper serving size.
>alyce

Now, wait a minute.  I didn't say anything about "proper".  I simply
reported on our use.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 16:23:33 2003
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bonniev wrote:

> Clyde makes a big salad with the tuna.   There are many, many things on the
> salad besides the tuna.

Six ounces worth?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 16:23:34 2003
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Natalie:
>I think specifying "sweet milk" has pretty much
>died out by now.  My father always said "sweet
>milk," but he was born in 1907.

Perhaps a point of reference: The only time I have
heard this expression (until now) was in 1990, in
Johnson City, TN, from a native Chicagoan who was
transplanted to beautiful JCT.  I had _no_ idea
what she was talking about.

I assumed she meant "fresh milk".  Am I wrong?

'Cuz she poured the stuff down the drain, saying,
"I'm sure you want sweet milk."

--
Richard 7:10           it's the _position_, not furniture

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:23:37 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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About to eat a Swanson dinner that looks pretty good. Not sure how many
ounces, but it is stuffed turkey with mashed potatoes and gravy and
French-style green beans. A nice touch is the fact that there is red
pimiento scattered on the beans. A colorful and attractive plateful. The
timer is timing.

alyce

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>How will it happen, then? How can you oust what you cannot see, do not
>have? Do you think he'll just go to live in a bunker forever with no one
>knowing where he is?     --alyce

You defeat the army and take over the government.  You put in a puppet
government with an American General in charge.   You put out the fires and
take over the oil wells.  You get production back up.   You stabilize the
country.  You feed the people.   You post troops.  You can do all that and
it doesn't matter one wit if Saddam escaped and paired up with bin Laden to
plot more terrorist attacks from some mountain cave.  You have ousted him
from control of Iraq and hopefully from his weapon stash.


    --bonniev

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>bonniev wrote:
> > Clyde makes a big salad with the tuna.   There are many, many things on the
> > salad besides the tuna.
>
>Six ounces worth?
>alyce

Besides the 1.5 ounces of tuna per person,  he uses beans and tomatoes and
hard boiled eggs and asparagus.  Sometimes, though, the cat and I get all
three ounces because he garnishes his salad with left over lamb or beef.


    --bonniev

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alyce:
> Entirely too many suspicious people in libraries these days.

I have to submit to a personal search every
time I walk into the NOPL.  I cannot express
how much this pisses me off.

I have to degrade myself in order to use a
building and property that I have paid for.

This is not some plot of the ZOG.

The library is a day dormitory.

The children's reading room was converted
into a holding area for <luggage>.

For a time, one had to leave an ID at the desk
in order to use the bathroom.  When the piles
of shit and pools of piss in the stacks became
too much for the staff to handle, the requirement
was relaxed.

I'm not even sure what I'm ranting about here.

I guess I'm saying that it sucks when it sucks
to go to the library.

--
Richard 7:10           it's the _position_, not furniture

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Apparently, I respond only to
Natalie:
>Sounds like lemon squeezes in junior high.  They weren't as
>much about physical flaws as about personality flaws, though.

Ah, the "circle of shit".
  (Sout'side, c. 1976-1980)

--
Richard 7:10           it's the _position_, not furniture

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At 03:47 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>There is more to life than one sandwich.

Words to live by...

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At 05:10 PM 2/22/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>bonniev wrote:
> >
> > To whom is this addressed?   Our 3 oz can is enough to feed the two of us
> > with a generous treat for our cat during dinner preparation.
>
>I do not understand. That is like one forkful of food only.

Well, it's a bit more than a forkful.  Basically, what I make is a variant
of salad nicoise.  It includes two or three types of lettuce; tomatoes;
(sometimes) boiled and sliced potatoes; (sometimes) quartered hard-boiled
eggs; blanched and cold-shocked asparagus and green beans; onion rings from
thinly sliced green or young vidalia onions; other veggies that might be in
the refrigerator; and a mild viniagrette.  My salad usually includes a
couple of types of olives (a taste that Bonnie doesn't share).  More and
more, I eat most of my portion of the tuna as I am assembling the salads;
sometimes Sere and/or Drusis come into the kitchen to share.  The salads
are served with bread---usually oven toasted, rubbed with fresh garlic and
drizzled with olive oil.

cwv

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The only worthwhile canned tuna is tuna in olive oil, usually marketed as
"tonno."  It is unlikely to be found in the usual canned-seafood section,
but rather in the "gourmet" or "international" or "Italian foods"
sections.  This is because the same nutritional Nazis who once decreed eggs
and salt to be just short of lethal also muttered strongly against anything
in oil.  So, Chicken of the Sea (aptly named) and others pack tuna in water
(it's probably also cheaper to do), which can only serve to leach out much
of the flavor of the tuna.  But hey, it probably goes over well in Des
Moines and other places of that ilk.

cwv

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:49:13 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> You defeat the army and take over the government.  You put in a puppet
> government with an American General in charge.

I have such problems with this. What right have we to do this?

  > take over the oil wells.

They are not ours to take.

Worried,
alyce

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:53:25 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 4:14:04 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I agree that cannas are 'sturdy'. But nothing is easy to get out
>> of the ground here, though I'm trying to fix that.

> Why are things not easy to get out of the ground there?

Because it's all clay. The woman who built this house prepared
the beds so *that* dirt is friable, but anything that's not in a
bed is pretty much glued in.

Karen

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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
> I guess I'm saying that it sucks when it sucks
> to go to the library.

Agreed. It is wrong. Tell it to Ashcroft.

alyce

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 4:16:20 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> I hope so. I guess your frost was not heavy. Here, we have to dig them
> up before frost, dry them out and plant again in the spring.

Some people do that with tulips here, and refrigerate them. I did
that with mine this year. But it's a big pain in the ass, so I
probably won't do it again.

We seldom have more than two nights of freeze in a row, so
keeping things alive is relatively easy.

Karen

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 4:20:45 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> I assumed she meant "fresh milk".  Am I wrong?

> 'Cuz she poured the stuff down the drain, saying,
> "I'm sure you want sweet milk."

I thought sweet milk was the opposite of buttermilk.

Karen
"In Paris, parties of two at a cafe touched 110 times per hour,
while in London, they touched no times at all."

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 16:58:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 4:22:56 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:

> At 03:47 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>>There is more to life than one sandwich.

> Words to live by...

I think so.:)

Karen

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Karen Kay wrote:
> Some people do that with tulips here, and refrigerate them. I did
> that with mine this year. But it's a big pain in the ass, so I
> probably won't do it again.

Why in the world would anyone do that? Tulips are herdy to way below
zero. Canna and gladioli and a few others need  to be dug out before
frost, but certainly not tulips.

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Saturday, February 22, 2003, 4:20:45 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> > I assumed she meant "fresh milk".  Am I wrong?
>
> > 'Cuz she poured the stuff down the drain, saying,
> > "I'm sure you want sweet milk."
>
> I thought sweet milk was the opposite of buttermilk.

I thought it means not sour.

alyce

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 4:58:36 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Some people do that with tulips here, and refrigerate them. I did
>> that with mine this year. But it's a big pain in the ass, so I
>> probably won't do it again.

> Why in the world would anyone do that? Tulips are herdy to way below
> zero. Canna and gladioli and a few others need  to be dug out before
> frost, but certainly not tulips.

It's the opposite problem, I think--they need more cold to bloom
well. Some people on the local gardening group said that their
tulips bloomed the first year and not after. The tulips I did
this to, large double yellow tulips with flowers the size of
dinner plates, are just getting ready to bloom.

If I had to dig cannas out of the ground, I wouldn't have any.
I am extremely spoiled.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:05:34 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
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C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:

> Apparently, I respond only to
> Natalie:
>
>>Sounds like lemon squeezes in junior high.  They weren't as
>>much about physical flaws as about personality flaws, though.
>>
>
> Ah, the "circle of shit".
>   (Sout'side, c. 1976-1980)
>


        It has never occurred to me to do such a thing.  No wonder
I've never been "popular."





--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 17:12:37 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-22 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> bonniev wrote:
> >
> > You defeat the army and take over the government.  You put in a puppet
> > government with an American General in charge.
>
> I have such problems with this. What right have we to do this?
>
> > take over the oil wells.
>
> They are not ours to take.

Let's talk with somebody less boring.

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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>> So what do the rich Repubs do? Or did they inherit all their money?
>
>No inherited money.  All made by slicing around in eyes to the tune of
>millions a year (gross).  And, of course, once one has a large pile of

What profession is that? Has lasik really been around that long?

Bethany

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>bonniev wrote:
> > You defeat the army and take over the government.  You put in a puppet
> > government with an American General in charge.
>
>I have such problems with this. What right have we to do this?

This can be endlessly debated.

>   > take over the oil wells.
>
>They are not ours to take.
>Worried,  alyce

Once we have decimated the country, it becomes our responsibility to take
over the oil wells and get them running again for the sake of the Iraqi
people and also for the sake of the USA and other countries who are
dependent upon the oil.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:14:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 6:01:59 PM, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>> So what do the rich Repubs do? Or did they inherit all their money?
>>
>>No inherited money.  All made by slicing around in eyes to the tune of
>>millions a year (gross).  And, of course, once one has a large pile of

> What profession is that? Has lasik really been around that long?

Why do you limit 'slicing around in eyes' to lasik? Two of my
sisters had their eyes sliced. But not with a laser.

Karen

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>Karen Kay wrote:
> > Some people do that with tulips here, and refrigerate them. I did
> > that with mine this year. But it's a big pain in the ass, so I
> > probably won't do it again.
>
>Why in the world would anyone do that? Tulips are herdy to way below
>zero. Canna and gladioli and a few others need  to be dug out before
>frost, but certainly not tulips.
>alyce

You might do that so that you can separate bulbs that have twinned or to
thin the bed.


    --bonniev

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> > > You defeat the army and take over the government.  You put in a puppet
> > > government with an American General in charge.
> >
> > I have such problems with this. What right have we to do this?
> >
> > > take over the oil wells.
> >
> > They are not ours to take.
>
>Let's talk with somebody less boring.

Than me or than Alyce?   Either or both, I suppose.  Well, Tush Man repost
your search for a corkscrew story.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:19:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 6:14:09 PM, bonniev wrote:
> You might do that so that you can separate bulbs that have twinned or to
> thin the bed.

No, it's to simulate a <real winter>.

I'm upset because I didn't thin my irises last year when they
needed it and now they are thinner.:( And floppy, but I think
that's another issue.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:16:33 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

>> What profession is that? Has lasik really been around that long?
>
>Why do you limit 'slicing around in eyes' to lasik? Two of my
>sisters had their eyes sliced. But not with a laser.

Clearly, I do not. I ASKED what the profession is. I do not know anyone
who slices eyes, but lasik comes closer than anything else I can think of.

Bethany

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:37:50 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 6:16:33 PM, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
> On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:
>>> What profession is that? Has lasik really been around that long?
>>
>>Why do you limit 'slicing around in eyes' to lasik? Two of my
>>sisters had their eyes sliced. But not with a laser.

> Clearly, I do not. I ASKED what the profession is. I do not know anyone
> who slices eyes, but lasik comes closer than anything else I can think of.

Natalie's brother is an ophthalmologist, or however it's spelled.
An o. surgeon. Who else slices eyes?

Karen

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On 22 Feb 2003 at 19:15, bonniev wrote:

> Well, Tush Man repost your search for a corkscrew story.

He doesn't have to. It's there to be read on the Web site.'

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 18:50:07 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 18:47:08 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
> Natalie:
> >I think specifying "sweet milk" has pretty much
> >died out by now.  My father always said "sweet
> >milk," but he was born in 1907.
>
> Perhaps a point of reference: The only time I have
> heard this expression (until now) was in 1990, in
> Johnson City, TN, from a native Chicagoan who was
> transplanted to beautiful JCT.  I had _no_ idea
> what she was talking about.
>
> I assumed she meant "fresh milk".  Am I wrong?
>
> 'Cuz she poured the stuff down the drain, saying,
> "I'm sure you want sweet milk."

I don't know what this Chicagoan in 1990 might have meant.  Afaik,
"sweet milk" when used by people of my father's generation meant as
opposed to butter or clabber milk.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 18:53:33 2003
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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
>
> At 03:47 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>
> >There is more to life than one sandwich.
>
> Words to live by...

And I agree that there is more to life than any food, sandwich or
otherwise.  But Karen made that statement in seeming explanation of why
she ate twice the amount of tunafish that I prefer to eat.  That's what
I don't understand.  Karen, of course, can't be expected to provide real
answers to a question, but can anybody else here explain to me why she
responded with that statement?  The context certainly made it appear
that her point was that one should indeed eat twice as much tunafish at
one sitting in order to get more of <life>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 18:55:47 2003
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Have you had a chance to check out Marie Callender(sp?) yet?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 18:59:51 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:

> I have to submit to a personal search every
> time I walk into the NOPL.  I cannot express
> how much this pisses me off.

For some reason I first read NOPL as NOPD and was remembering that
pleasant day when the NO police were selling beer at a street stand --
the day Wordslers were roaming the Quarter.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 6:50:37 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> "clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
>> At 03:47 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>
>> >There is more to life than one sandwich.
>>
>> Words to live by...

> And I agree that there is more to life than any food, sandwich or
> otherwise.  But Karen made that statement in seeming explanation of why
> she ate twice the amount of tunafish that I prefer to eat.  That's what
> I don't understand.  Karen, of course, can't be expected to provide real
> answers to a question, but can anybody else here explain to me why she
> responded with that statement?  The context certainly made it appear
> that her point was that one should indeed eat twice as much tunafish at
> one sitting in order to get more of <life>.

LOL!

Karen

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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:

> > > To whom is this addressed?   Our 3 oz can is enough to feed the two of us
> > > with a generous treat for our cat during dinner preparation.
> >
> >I do not understand. That is like one forkful of food only.
>
> Well, it's a bit more than a forkful.

Indeed.  It is aplenty if the main course of one person.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 05:49 PM 2/22/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:

>They are not ours to take.

To quote J. Paul Getty (as cited by Woody Allen):  "The meek shall inherit
the earth, but not its mineral rights."

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:04:38 -0600
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
> Apparently, I respond only to
> Natalie:

You have <good taste>.

> >Sounds like lemon squeezes in junior high.  They weren't as
> >much about physical flaws as about personality flaws, though.
>
> Ah, the "circle of shit".
>   (Sout'side, c. 1976-1980)

Our lemon squeezes were in the mid '50s.  Occasionally we'd have orange
squeezes -- when you said good things -- but they weren't as
<meaningful> as lemon squeezes.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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02003-02-22 | "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@FLEX.COM> writes:
> On 22 Feb 2003 at 19:15, bonniev wrote:
>
> > Well, Tush Man repost your search for a corkscrew story.
>
> He doesn't have to. It's there to be read on the Web site.'

Maybe that's where "100 Ways to Get Freshmen Interested In Ethics"
should go ...

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At 06:50 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
> >
> > At 03:47 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
> >
> > >There is more to life than one sandwich.
> >
> > Words to live by...
>
>And I agree that there is more to life than any food, sandwich or
>otherwise.  But Karen made that statement in seeming explanation of why
>she ate twice the amount of tunafish that I prefer to eat.  That's what
>I don't understand.  Karen, of course, can't be expected to provide real
>answers to a question, but can anybody else here explain to me why she
>responded with that statement?  The context certainly made it appear
>that her point was that one should indeed eat twice as much tunafish at
>one sitting in order to get more of <life>.

She doesn't write very clearly, does she?

Betty

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Because it's all clay. The woman who built this house prepared
> the beds so *that* dirt is friable, but anything that's not in a
> bed is pretty much glued in.

Ah so.  I understand the fight with clay.  Sometimes some of that
soil-loosening stuff that you can buy at Wmart helps.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:08:19 -0500
From: Karen Kay <karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:04:38 -0600, Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> wrote:

>"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>>
>> Apparently, I respond only to
>> Natalie:
>
>You have <good taste>.
>
>> >Sounds like lemon squeezes in junior high.  They weren't as
>> >much about physical flaws as about personality flaws, though.
>>
>> Ah, the "circle of shit".
>>   (Sout'side, c. 1976-1980)
>
>Our lemon squeezes were in the mid '50s.  Occasionally we'd have orange
>squeezes -- when you said good things -- but they weren't as
><meaningful> as lemon squeezes.

Why not?

Karen

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Subject: Re[2]: Barf
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 7:07:23 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Because it's all clay. The woman who built this house prepared
>> the beds so *that* dirt is friable, but anything that's not in a
>> bed is pretty much glued in.

> Ah so.  I understand the fight with clay.  Sometimes some of that
> soil-loosening stuff that you can buy at Wmart helps.

Soil-loosening stuff?

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:09:28 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> We seldom have more than two nights of freeze in a row, so
> keeping things alive is relatively easy.

Cannas can survive far more than two nights of freeze in a row.  I've
never thought of them as annuals or as needing special attention in
winter.  And we often have lots of nights in a row of below freezing and
sometimes several days in a row of below freezing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
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At 05:11 PM 2/22/2003 -0800, betty wrote:
>At 06:50 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
>> >
>> > At 03:47 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>> >
>> > >There is more to life than one sandwich.
>> >
>> > Words to live by...
>>
>>And I agree that there is more to life than any food, sandwich or
>>otherwise.  But Karen made that statement in seeming explanation of why
>>she ate twice the amount of tunafish that I prefer to eat.  That's what
>>I don't understand.  Karen, of course, can't be expected to provide real
>>answers to a question, but can anybody else here explain to me why she
>>responded with that statement?  The context certainly made it appear
>>that her point was that one should indeed eat twice as much tunafish at
>>one sitting in order to get more of <life>.
>
>She doesn't write very clearly, does she?

Well, some people don't read very clearly, either.

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:37:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > What profession is that? Has lasik really been around that long?
>
> Why do you limit 'slicing around in eyes' to lasik? Two of my
> sisters had their eyes sliced. But not with a laser.

I find your question/comment confusing.  Lasers have been used for
various kinds of eye surgery for many years now -- long before Lasik hit
the US.  I remember that when my niece was about five years old (she's
now over thirty) she owned a laser.  I don't remember the details, just
my brother's laughing about how Audrey owned this laser machine in his
office (her <ownership> of it being for some kind of nefarious tax
scheming).

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 08:10 PM 2/22/2003 -0500, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
>At 05:11 PM 2/22/2003 -0800, betty wrote:
>>At 06:50 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>>"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
>>> >
>>> > At 03:47 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>> >
>>> > >There is more to life than one sandwich.
>>> >
>>> > Words to live by...
>>>
>>>And I agree that there is more to life than any food, sandwich or
>>>otherwise.  But Karen made that statement in seeming explanation of why
>>>she ate twice the amount of tunafish that I prefer to eat.  That's what
>>>I don't understand.  Karen, of course, can't be expected to provide real
>>>answers to a question, but can anybody else here explain to me why she
>>>responded with that statement?  The context certainly made it appear
>>>that her point was that one should indeed eat twice as much tunafish at
>>>one sitting in order to get more of <life>.
>>
>>She doesn't write very clearly, does she?
>
>Well, some people don't read very clearly, either.


There is that.  I also read Richard's NOPL as NOPD.

Clyde, are you up for more skiing?

Betty

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:22:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> >No inherited money.  All made by slicing around in eyes to the tune of
> >millions a year (gross).  And, of course, once one has a large pile of
>
> What profession is that? Has lasik really been around that long?

Lasik surgery?  He explored it and is against it (or at least wants no
part of it personally).  He said that it's much too fuzzy -- that even
within the group of people considered appropriate for it that the
results aren't totally predictable -- that even with an excellent
surgeon (which he his -- he's an obnoxious human being but is a very
good surgeon) there was no way to have 100% success.  And he's spoiled.
He was one of the first people in the country to do cataract lens
implants and has never had a problem.  Back in the old days he drew
patients from all around the country -- when not many ophthalmic
surgeons had moved to lens implants.  For a good many years now he has
worked only a couple of days a week -- some weeks -- he also spends many
weeks off -- they spend almost as much time in their house in Vail as
they do in Hville.

So no -- he doesn't do lasik.  In his early years he did all kinds of
eye surgery, of course -- corneal transplants, laser whatevers, digging
debris out of eyes after tornados, etc. etc.  (And actually he spent his
first couple of years doing non-surgery also -- stuff like checking
people's eyes in general -- he got out of that after a very short time,
though -- said that optometrists could take care of that kind of thing.
He has done nothing but surgery for many, many years now.)  What he
specialized in early and has stuck with is mainly cataracts.  As he once
said, as long as there are old people, there will be cataracts.  And his
main interest is making money, of course.  He has succeeded quite well
at it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:

> Once we have decimated the country, it becomes our responsibility to take

What about the other 90% of the country?  (Sorry -- just couldn't help
saying that on *Words*-L.)

> over the oil wells and get them running again for the sake of the Iraqi
> people and also for the sake of the USA and other countries who are
> dependent upon the oil.

I'm glad you added that "and also."  The idea that we are heading into
this war to help the Iraqi people is one of those lies I find
disgusting.  As Rashmi (I think it was Rashmi) said earlier today, why
exactly was it that the US was snuggling up to Saddam a while back when
he was murdering Iraqis but it was convenient for us to be his friend?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> Clearly, I do not. I ASKED what the profession is. I do not know anyone
> who slices eyes, but lasik comes closer than anything else I can think of.

I neither know nor care how various kinds of eye surgery are performed.
I assume that slicing is involved in many kinds.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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On 22 Feb 2003 at 19:05, Tushar Samant wrote:

> Maybe that's where "100 Ways to Get Freshmen Interested In Ethics"
> should go ...

Rings no bells. Must be something I missed. I tend to filter out
things containing "100 ways" or "freshmen" or "ethics."


    mem

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 19:57:22 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> >Our lemon squeezes were in the mid '50s.  Occasionally we'd have orange
> >squeezes -- when you said good things -- but they weren't as
> ><meaningful> as lemon squeezes.
>
> Why not?

I don't really remember in detail.  I just remember that orange squeezes
were the typical jr-high gushing of complimentary bs.  I detested them
both -- both lemon squeezes and orange squeezes.  If we had had only one
of them, I would have preferred orange squeezes, in spite of their
seeming insincerity.

And then there were "slam books" -- which included both good and bad and
were passed around to everybody in jr high.  I think I still have one
stuck somewhere in a box of memorabilia.  They were pretty terrible
also, imho.  Although I loved many things about that age, I would say
overall that jr high isn't the ideal time in life.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Soil-loosening stuff?

Yes.  It's small granules in big bags, and the big bags say something
about loosening even the heaviest soils.  You plop it down and wet it.
I don't know that it helps all that much, really, but I do think it
might help some.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-22 | "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@FLEX.COM> writes:
> On 22 Feb 2003 at 19:05, Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > Maybe that's where "100 Ways to Get Freshmen Interested In Ethics"
> > should go ...
>
> Rings no bells. Must be something I missed. I tend to filter out
> things containing "100 ways" or "freshmen" or "ethics."

That's how I want to be when I grow up.

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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 7:58:52 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Yes.  It's small granules in big bags, and the big bags say something
> about loosening even the heaviest soils.  You plop it down and wet it.
> I don't know that it helps all that much, really, but I do think it
> might help some.

I'm going the organic route.

Karen

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

>Natalie's brother is an ophthalmologist, or however it's spelled.
>An o. surgeon. Who else slices eyes?

Thanks. I did not know that any of them actually sliced eyes!

Bethany

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:08:59 -0600
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This is for everyone except Pete.:)

Do you recognize 'snarfblat' as a word from The Little Mermaid?

Karen,
ticked that the housemate showed up unannounced

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Do you recognize 'snarfblat' as a word from The Little Mermaid?

No, I don't.  But I'm mutant.

> ticked that the housemate showed up unannounced

But if he's a housemate, isn't it his home?  Does one need to announce
arrival at one's home?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:29:41 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 8:28:11 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>> ticked that the housemate showed up unannounced

> But if he's a housemate, isn't it his home?  Does one need to announce
> arrival at one's home?

It's his home 4 days a week--and evidently when he has a fight
with his wife.

Karen

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> > ticked that the housemate showed up unannounced
>
>But if he's a housemate, isn't it his home?  Does one need to announce
>arrival at one's home?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

He's not supposed to be there on Saturdays.


    --bonniev

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
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At 05:17 PM 2/22/2003 -0800, betty wrote:

>There is that.  I also read Richard's NOPL as NOPD.
>
>Clyde, are you up for more skiing?

Weather permitting, yes.  Right now it is snowing, but that is supposed to
change to sleet/freezing rain, then rain, before (sometime Monday) it gets
colder, i.e., below freezing, for most of the remainder of the week.  What
this will do to xc skiing conditions, I don't know, except that it's not
likely to improve them.

cwv

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> > Maybe that's where "100 Ways to Get Freshmen Interested In Ethics"
> > should go ...
>
>Rings no bells. Must be something I missed. I tend to filter out
>things containing "100 ways" or "freshmen" or "ethics."
>     mem

There is nothing like that.  Tushar is just expressing his disgust with my
neutral tone of voice when answering questions with ethical overtones.  He
seems to find it offensive, or at least boring, that I don't express my
opinion on issues but rather take a more philosophical stance.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:38:20 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 8:34:44 PM, bonniev wrote:
>> > ticked that the housemate showed up unannounced
>>
>>But if he's a housemate, isn't it his home?  Does one need to announce
>>arrival at one's home?
>>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

> He's not supposed to be there on Saturdays.

Thank you for paying attention!

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:42:03 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
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Observations about Six Feet Under

(a report of a dumb Charlie Rose show seen while drunk off the ASS)

1 Four or five people to do with the show simultaneously on the
  Charlie Rose show. (Charlie Rose: the least interesting man
  on earth.)

2 Repetitive stress on the fact that it's not just another
  sitcom-like TV show.

3 Absurd repetition of the phrase "life in the face of death".

4 Everybody looking like a stuffed shirt acting like they are
  REALLY cool--hilarious!

5 Profound observation: "the show has a mind of its own".

6 Unbelievably hammy and dumb acting in every featured scene.

7 Actress attempting fake breathy, intense voice in interview
  and screwing up even the word "YESSSS".

8 Guy shamelessly describing the electric creative atmosphere
  of ... the committee which writes the show! The interviewees,
  immune to shame, nod gravely. Typical snappy dialogue by
  committee: "I am trying to create something out of my job
  and my relationship, I'd like some support on this."

9 Charlie asks a profound question: is it a comedy or a drama,
  you would say? After a pause, the intensely thoughtful answer:
  a little bit of BOTH.

10 Charlie is laughing like a jackass! My oh my, that's pretty
  special. Of course, ultimately it is because the reptile part
  of Charlie's brain realizes how absurd these stupid "creatives"
  are, and how embarrassing even for his show. The interviewees,
  immune to mockery of anything, are trying to figure out how to
  look funny and deep at the same time--oh wait, that IS what
  the show is about!

HAR! Idiots ...

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-22 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
> >> Maybe that's where "100 Ways to Get Freshmen Interested In Ethics"
> >> should go ...
> >
> >Rings no bells. Must be something I missed. I tend to filter out
> >things containing "100 ways" or "freshmen" or "ethics."
> >    mem
>
> There is nothing like that.  Tushar is just expressing his disgust with my
> neutral tone of voice when answering questions with ethical overtones.  He
> seems to find it offensive, or at least boring, that I don't express my
> opinion on issues but rather take a more philosophical stance.

It's not a philosophical stance, it's the tedious academic trick of
introducing a microscopic bit of "provocation" in a boring subject.
Gotta have a hook ... just like the stupid habit of putting sex in
the title of a book.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 21:01:37 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 20:58:38 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > But if he's a housemate, isn't it his home?  Does one need to announce
> > arrival at one's home?
>
> It's his home 4 days a week--and evidently when he has a fight
> with his wife.

Ah so.  I knew that he was planning on spending weekends in Houston, but
I didn't realize that that was part of the deal -- that he was paying
for only four days of the week.  Can you charge him for <overtime>?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 21:03:02 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > He's not supposed to be there on Saturdays.
>
> Thank you for paying attention!

I apologize for not having realized that was in the contract.  I do
remember that he was planning on being in Houston on weekends.  I just
didn't know that it was a <rule>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 21:19:01 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
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98 - 0  against stanfurd.   Go, Bears!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 21:22:12 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:19:10 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Where are you, Bradykins?  Do you know that we are playing you tomorrow
there?  Are you going to the game, or are you gonna watch it on tv?
Don't tell me "Neither"!  You need to GWTP -- talk basketball with me.
Although our star is said to be Mario Austin, mho is that our best
players are Bowers and Zimmerman.  There are occasional good moments by
Ignerski, plus some off-the-bench people like Winsome Frazier.  And
Ontario Harper has his good moments.

If I'm to write a poem about these people, you have to play with me.
But I don't write poems unless we reach the final four, which I think is
highly unlikely this year, even though we're not bad.  I haven't failed
to notice, however, that some of the creampuff teams we beat before
league play started are up high in the polls -- creampuffs like Xavier
and Oklahoma.  Maybe once SEC teams get into the NCAA tournament and
start playing creampuffs, things will get better for us.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 21:23:07 2003
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Betty wrote:
>
> 98 - 0  against stanfurd.   Go, Bears!

Isn't playing rugby <un-America>?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 21:23:49 2003
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Watch the Bears in 40 minutes!

Betty

At 09:19 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Where are you, Bradykins?  Do you know that we are playing you tomorrow
>there?  Are you going to the game, or are you gonna watch it on tv?
>Don't tell me "Neither"!  You need to GWTP -- talk basketball with me.
>Although our star is said to be Mario Austin, mho is that our best
>players are Bowers and Zimmerman.  There are occasional good moments by
>Ignerski, plus some off-the-bench people like Winsome Frazier.  And
>Ontario Harper has his good moments.
>
>If I'm to write a poem about these people, you have to play with me.
>But I don't write poems unless we reach the final four, which I think is
>highly unlikely this year, even though we're not bad.  I haven't failed
>to notice, however, that some of the creampuff teams we beat before
>league play started are up high in the polls -- creampuffs like Xavier
>and Oklahoma.  Maybe once SEC teams get into the NCAA tournament and
>start playing creampuffs, things will get better for us.
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 21:25:15 2003
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At 09:20 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Betty wrote:
> >
> > 98 - 0  against stanfurd.   Go, Bears!
>
>Isn't playing rugby <un-America>?

Well, this is Berkeley, a nuclear free zone.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 21:42:10 2003
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At 09:34 PM 2/22/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Betty wrote:
> >
> > Watch the Bears in 40 minutes!
>
>In 40 minutes?  You've gotta be kidding.  The clock is telling me that
>my bedtime is here.  Besides, I am very much it's-all-about-us re
>sports.  I almost never watch teams that don't have any direct bearing
>upon *us*.  I realize that that means I'm not a real sports person, but
>I don't have any problem agreeing that I'm not.  Not only do I watch
>only MSU games on tv, I quit paying attention when we're having a bad
>season.  I've never denied being just a fair-weather friend re sports.
>
>My all-about-us attitude re sports does not mean, however, that I'm an
>all-about-me person re Ashcroftian stuff -- i.e., I'm still wondering
>why Doris thinks one must personally be paranoid to find the current
>scene scary.  I don't find it personally scary.  I can't imagine feeling
>personally at risk.  But it's not all about me.  I can well imagine how
>other innocent people might be at risk.

You girls can discuss it when she returns.

Betty

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:05:33 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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bonniev wrote:
> Once we have decimated the country, it becomes our responsibility to take
> over the oil wells and get them running again for the sake of the Iraqi
> people and also for the sake of the USA and other countries who are
> dependent upon the oil.

Ah. I wish I'd studied ethics too, so that I could have such a clear
understanding of the right thing to do.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:23:48 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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PS:  The Lady Dawgs are also good this year.  Watch for them, you
followers of women's basketball.  We apparently have a major superstar
in Latoya Thomas (maybe it's Thompson).  And Tan White, just a sophomore
I think, is said to be quite good.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:33:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 9:00:03 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > He's not supposed to be there on Saturdays.
>>
>> Thank you for paying attention!

> I apologize for not having realized that was in the contract.  I do
> remember that he was planning on being in Houston on weekends.  I just
> didn't know that it was a <rule>.

Most people who are married like to spend time together when they
can--except when they are mad at each other.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:34:10 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty wrote:
>
> Watch the Bears in 40 minutes!

In 40 minutes?  You've gotta be kidding.  The clock is telling me that
my bedtime is here.  Besides, I am very much it's-all-about-us re
sports.  I almost never watch teams that don't have any direct bearing
upon *us*.  I realize that that means I'm not a real sports person, but
I don't have any problem agreeing that I'm not.  Not only do I watch
only MSU games on tv, I quit paying attention when we're having a bad
season.  I've never denied being just a fair-weather friend re sports.

My all-about-us attitude re sports does not mean, however, that I'm an
all-about-me person re Ashcroftian stuff -- i.e., I'm still wondering
why Doris thinks one must personally be paranoid to find the current
scene scary.  I don't find it personally scary.  I can't imagine feeling
personally at risk.  But it's not all about me.  I can well imagine how
other innocent people might be at risk.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 21:45:16 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I'm fading rapidly and need to turn off the computer, but something
about this e-mail I just got from a Japanese friend with whom I rarely
communicate and with whom I've never discussed politics seems so apt or
something -- it sums up the <feeling>:

> I can enjoy
> full bloom of plum blossoms. Many small bud popped up in my year. Soon all
> hyacinths and crocuses will bloom.
>
> In these days I worry about the war on Iraq very much. I think Japanese
> government is so stupid to follow America. No one wants  the war. Don't you
> think so?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Natalie:

>Are you saying that you eat two tunafish sandwiches in a row?

I find the word tunafish extremely unpleasant. What's wrong with plain ole
tuna sandwiches?

-rashmi

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Feb 22 22:18:18 2003
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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:13:27 -0500
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Have you had a chance to check out Marie Callender(sp?) yet?

Are you asking me? Yes, I had a pot pie in early January that Doug got
for me before he went home after Christmas.
It was fine. No foreign matter in it. Now I am doing Swanson's and
Stouffer's dinners, which are what Jeff selected when he did shopping
before he went home. The Swanson's stuffed turked tonight weighed 13.5
ounces and had 360 calories. It was not bad.

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> > Do you recognize 'snarfblat' as a word from The Little Mermaid?

I wonder if Hans Christian Anderson would. What would snarfblat be in
Danish?

alyce

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Date: Sat, 22 Feb 2003 22:43:02 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, February 22, 2003, 10:39:12 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>> > Do you recognize 'snarfblat' as a word from The Little Mermaid?

> I wonder if Hans Christian Anderson would. What would snarfblat be in
> Danish?

I have no idea. I only know they are from TLM because Pete told
me so.

Karen

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In a message dated 2/22/2003 12:24:02 PM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< Saturday, February 22, 2003, 9:44:42 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Wouldn't we actually gain in prestige if we marched the troops
> home without firing a shot?

No.
Karen
 >>
Why not? Theo

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:11:58 EST
Subject: Re: Barf
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In a message dated 2/22/2003 12:44:11 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< That reminds me, I just was made an honorary member of the garden club.
No Waterford bowl. But I don't have to pay dues any more.

alyce
 >>

Congrats. Theo

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:21:41 EST
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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In a message dated 2/22/2003 2:26:50 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Except for aujus (one word). You know, it comes with prime rib of beef
in a little paper cup.

alyce
 >>

Huh? To me it's always meant a way of cooking. With moisture added instead of
doing it in just butter, oil, or something like that. Theo

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 01:43:55 EST
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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In a message dated 2/22/2003 5:13:45 PM, bonniev@PANAX.COM writes:

<< bonniev wrote:
> > You defeat the army and take over the government.  You put in a puppet
> > government with an American General in charge.
 >>

You aren't serious are you? floored, Theo

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 06:56:29 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> Huh? To me it's always meant a way of cooking. With moisture added instead of
> doing it in just butter, oil, or something like that.

A joke, THeo. Many Americans do not understand au jus.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 07:09:13 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> I find the word tunafish extremely unpleasant. What's wrong with plain ole
> tuna sandwiches?

I guess nothing is wrong with "tuna sandwiches" if that's how it's said
in your dialect and you're used to hearing that.  It sounds rather
<prissy> to me, though.  As for finding terms or whatever in other
dialects extremely unpleasant, that's the way I feel about "you guys."
It grates on my ears.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:03:31 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sat, 22 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>He was one of the first people in the country to do cataract lens
>implants and has never had a problem.  Back in the old days he drew
... >So no -- he doesn't do lasik.  In his early years he did all kinds of
>eye surgery, of course -- corneal transplants, laser whatevers, digging

So what exactly does he <slice>? I pictured eyeballs in two, etc.

Bethany

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 07:15:23 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > Have you had a chance to check out Marie Callender(sp?) yet?
>
> Are you asking me? Yes, I had a pot pie in early January that Doug got
> for me before he went home after Christmas.

Yes, I was asking you because we had discussed it earlier -- had
discussed that supposedly MC stuff has lots of calories and might be
useful in your calorie quest.  You were going to look for some of her
stuff at about the time something interfered -- illness or blizzard or
something.  This was a good while back.  Suddenly I thought about it
last night when you mentioned your frozen dinner and was wondering.

> It was fine. No foreign matter in it. Now I am doing Swanson's and
> Stouffer's dinners, which are what Jeff selected when he did shopping

I think it's Stouffers that makes a really super good five-cheese
lasagna, but I've seen it only in gigantic boxes.  The reason I know
about it is that it's often offered in our cafeteria, and when I
complimented the manager on it a while back, she laughed and said that
they they didn't make it -- that it came from Stouffer (I think).  After
that I kept my eyes open for it in grocery stores but never saw it in
normal-sized boxes.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> Huh? To me it's always meant a way of cooking. With moisture added instead of
> doing it in just butter, oil, or something like that. Theo

If you look at some menus, especially the kind handwritten on posters or
walls of cafe-type places, you will often see "au jus" or sometimes
"aujus" used in ways that indicate the menu-writer does not know French.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> So what exactly does he <slice>? I pictured eyeballs in two, etc.

I have no idea.  I find medical details repulsive.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:11:48 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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Subject: lasik
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Around here only young Os perform lasik surgery. I am very glad that some
do. My vision is still improving and is right at 20/20 for the first time
since early chidhood, if then - of course, I wear $6 reading glassses for
my presbyopia, which so far nothing cures. It is wonderful not to need
glasses for anything else.

Bethany

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:16:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>> I find the word tunafish extremely unpleasant. What's wrong with plain ole
>> tuna sandwiches?
>
>I guess nothing is wrong with "tuna sandwiches" if that's how it's said
>in your dialect and you're used to hearing that.  It sounds rather
><prissy> to me, though.  As for finding terms or whatever in other
>dialects extremely unpleasant, that's the way I feel about "you guys."
>It grates on my ears.

I find <tunafish> funny - because of its redundancy, I think.  Like, if
you said <tuna>, do you fear that we would think you meant <tuna
vegetables>? Or some kind of <tuna meat>?

I love you guys - no, make that <you guys>.

(We could start saying <hamburgermeat> sandwiches.)

Bethany

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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>> So what exactly does he <slice>? I pictured eyeballs in two, etc.
>
>I have no idea.  I find medical details repulsive.

So you don't know whether he actually <slices> anything?

Bethany

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><< bonniev wrote:
> > > You defeat the army and take over the government.  You put in a puppet
> > > government with an American General in charge.
>
>You aren't serious are you? floored, Theo

Of course I'm serious.   This is the stated intention.  Read a newspaper,
Theo.  The press is publishing the exact war plans right down to what the
first day targets will be and how we will reconstruct Iraq.


    --bonniev

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>bonniev wrote:
> > Once we have decimated the country, it becomes our responsibility to take
> > over the oil wells and get them running again for the sake of the Iraqi
> > people and also for the sake of the USA and other countries who are
> > dependent upon the oil.
>
>Ah. I wish I'd studied ethics too, so that I could have such a clear
>understanding of the right thing to do.
>alyce

Alyce, you do understand that what I'm saying is actually quotes from
newspapers that I've read.  The US even has a plan to donate the profits
from oil production to worthy causes.

Nevertheless, that said, I do think that it is pretty obviously the right
thing to do after you have pulverized a nation to help them rebuild.  And
certainly, given that Iraq is a nation whose wealth comes from the sale of
oil, the US would have to put out the oil fires and restart production in
order to rebuild Iraq.


    --bonniev

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
>
> Around here only young Os perform lasik surgery. I am very glad that some
> do. My vision is still improving and is right at 20/20 for the first time

The odds are strongly in favor of good results.  Iow, most people who
have lasik surgery are happy with the result.  I wouldn't risk it
because I'm not a gambler when it comes to something like vision.  And
those unpredictable negative results can be irreversible and highly
<unpleasant>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> I find <tunafish> funny - because of its redundancy, I think.  Like, if
> you said <tuna>, do you fear that we would think you meant <tuna
> vegetables>? Or some kind of <tuna meat>?

That seems odd coming from a linguist.  Language is full of
redundancies.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> >I have no idea.  I find medical details repulsive.
>
> So you don't know whether he actually <slices> anything?

Don't surgeons slice things?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>The odds are strongly in favor of good results.  Iow, most people who
>have lasik surgery are happy with the result.  I wouldn't risk it
>because I'm not a gambler when it comes to something like vision.  And
>those unpredictable negative results can be irreversible and highly
><unpleasant>.

Right. And there are easy ways to reduce risk  - for at least some of
us. Because my vision in one eye was much worse than in the other eye, I
elected to have single-eye surgery. That was a medically and fianancially
conservative decision.

Bethany

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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>> I find <tunafish> funny - because of its redundancy, I think.  Like, if
>> you said <tuna>, do you fear that we would think you meant <tuna
>> vegetables>? Or some kind of <tuna meat>?
>
>That seems odd coming from a linguist.  Language is full of
>redundancies.

That's why I added "I think" - it may be that I fund it funny for other
reasons.

Bethany

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>> So you don't know whether he actually <slices> anything?
>
>Don't surgeons slice things?

I was not talking about generic surgeons.

Bethany

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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> >> So you don't know whether he actually <slices> anything?
> >
> >Don't surgeons slice things?
>
> I was not talking about generic surgeons.

Well, yes.  He slices eye parts.  He's been using lasers for years, and
isn't that what lasers do?  They slice?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:02:19 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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A quick googling for eye slicing popped up lots of things.  Example:

**********************
The laser's usefulness in ophthalmology stems from the precision and
ease
with which it can be used to reach tissues deep within the eye. Unlike
the
smallest scalpel used in surgery, which makes cuts as wide as the tip of
a
pin and crushes neighboring tissue, a "laser scalpel" can slice as thin
as
                                                          ^^^^^
the width of a cell without damaging surrounding cells. This precision
allows
eye doctors to target diseased blood vessels, for example, while sparing
healthy ones, and fosters a speedy recovery with little resulting scar
tissue.
**********************
from: http://www.fda.gov/bbs/topics/CONSUMER/CON00046.html

So yes.  I am sure that my brother has sliced quite often.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
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At 03:51 AM 2/23/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:
>Natalie:
>
>>Are you saying that you eat two tunafish sandwiches in a row?
>
>I find the word tunafish extremely unpleasant. What's wrong with plain ole
>tuna sandwiches?

Betcha you don't like salmonfish or red snapperfish, either.

cwv

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At 01:43 AM 2/23/2003 -0500, theo wrote:
>In a message dated 2/22/2003 5:13:45 PM, bonniev@PANAX.COM writes:
>
><< bonniev wrote:
> > > You defeat the army and take over the government.  You put in a puppet
> > > government with an American General in charge.
>  >>
>
>You aren't serious are you? floored, Theo

It worked in Japan after WWII...

cwv

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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>Well, yes.  He slices eye parts.  He's been using lasers for years, and
>isn't that what lasers do?  They slice?

Finally - some information! THANK YOU! Are you competing with Karen now?

Bethany

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>Well, yes.  He slices eye parts.  He's been using lasers for years, and
>isn't that what lasers do?  They slice?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

The 90+ shots of laser they put into my eye sealed instead of slicing.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:17:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 12:04:12 AM, Theodora Groothof wrote:

> In a message dated 2/22/2003 12:24:02 PM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

> << Saturday, February 22, 2003, 9:44:42 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
>> Wouldn't we actually gain in prestige if we marched the troops
>> home without firing a shot?

> No.
> Karen
>  >>
> Why not? Theo

That doesn't seem to be the way it works. Can you name any other
country who gained prestige from such a situation?

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 08:27:34 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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bonniev wrote:


> Nevertheless, that said, I do think that it is pretty obviously the right
> thing to do after you have pulverized a nation to help them rebuild.  And
> certainly, given that Iraq is a nation whose wealth comes from the sale of
> oil, the US would have to put out the oil fires and restart production in
> order to rebuild Iraq.


        Up with Freedonia!



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Bethany K. Dumas:
= On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:
=
= >Well, yes.  He slices eye parts.  He's been using lasers for years, and
= >isn't that what lasers do?  They slice?
=
= Finally - some information! THANK YOU! Are you competing with Karen now?
=
= Bethany

Have you figured it out yet?  Natalie's brother is an
opthomologist and primarily an eye surgeon.  Are we done now?

steph
thinking I need a break...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 09:00:10 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:57:04 +0000
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Tushar:

> > The world cannot afford this. So I hold my nose and
> > say yay for war (not that anyone asked me). Also,

>I guess this is one degree better than being for the war
>out of sexual pique against France ...

> > acknowledged some of these things -anyhow best to hope
> > > for now is a quick end to the war and easy ouster of
>Saddam.

>This is the play-it-safe immigrant in a nutshell. I THINK
>this exactly what will happen but that doesn't mean I am
>for it.

Whatever. Go find some imaginary bobos.

-rashmi

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 09:02:48 2003
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> > > > You defeat the army and take over the government.  You put in a
>puppet
> > > > government with an American General in charge.
> > > > bonniev
> >You aren't serious are you? floored, Theo

>It worked in Japan after WWII...

And for a more recent example, Afghanistan.

-rashmi

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 09:04:12 2003
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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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            <3E584A67.430784D8@valstar.net> <3E58C96B.3D3843B4@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
 After
> that I kept my eyes open for it in grocery stores but never saw it in
> normal-sized boxes.

It is true that the best Stouffer's lasagna is in the huge pack. The
smaller size(s) are inferior.

alyce
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
>
> So you don't know whether he actually <slices> anything?

He slices cataracts off, or at least he used to do so (before lasers).
Surely you know, Bethany, that cataract surgery has been performed for
many years. How do you think they got the cataracts off?

alyce

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bonniev wrote:
> Alyce, you do understand that what I'm saying is actually quotes from
> newspapers that I've read.

Yes, I do. And you must understand that my reply was meant to be
humorous (in a macabre sort of way).

> The US even has a plan to donate the profits
> from oil production to worthy causes.

Snort. ROFL. So that's compassionate conservatism? Who decides what's
worthy?

alyce

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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
> Betcha you don't like salmonfish or red snapperfish, either.

How about catfish?

alyce

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At 08:11 AM 2/23/2003 -0500, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
>Around here only young Os perform lasik surgery. I am very glad that some
>do. My vision is still improving and is right at 20/20 for the first time
>since early chidhood, if then - of course, I wear $6 reading glassses for
>my presbyopia, which so far nothing cures. It is wonderful not to need
>glasses for anything else.
>
>Bethany

Report on long term effects in 10-20 years.

Betty

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:11:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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The housemate is gone. One of the wife's cats is dying, so she
asked him to come home.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:15:24 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> >It worked in Japan after WWII...
>
> And for a more recent example, Afghanistan.

I have lost track of the Afghanistan government, perhaps. Isn't Karzai
the president? Who is the US general whose puppet Karzai is?

Did you note that the Taliban guy with one eye seems to have emerged the
other day to urge an uprising against Karzai (and us)?
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030217/wl_nm/afghan_taliban_dc_3

alyce
alyce

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Subject: Re: Yay!
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At 09:11 AM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>The housemate is gone. One of the wife's cats is dying, so she
>asked him to come home.
>
>Karen

Were you un welcoming to him?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 09:24:07 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 09:21:10 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 9:23:13 AM, Betty wrote:
> At 09:11 AM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>The housemate is gone. One of the wife's cats is dying, so she
>>asked him to come home.
>>
>>Karen

> Were you un welcoming to him?

No. Do you think he made this up so he could leave gracefully? I
don't think so.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 09:28:45 2003
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At 09:21 AM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Sunday, February 23, 2003, 9:23:13 AM, Betty wrote:
> > At 09:11 AM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> >>The housemate is gone. One of the wife's cats is dying, so she
> >>asked him to come home.
> >>
> >>Karen
>
> > Were you un welcoming to him?
>
>No. Do you think he made this up so he could leave gracefully? I
>don't think so.

I don't know. I was just curious about how people handle these situations
so that it doesn't repeat.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 09:33:33 2003
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At 02:57 PM 2/23/2003 +0000, tushar wrote:

>>I guess this is one degree better than being for the war
>>out of sexual pique against France ...

We don't have to go to war with France---just lure them over to our beaches
and have a Florida cop run over them.

cwv

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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 9:30:01 AM, Betty wrote:
> At 09:21 AM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Sunday, February 23, 2003, 9:23:13 AM, Betty wrote:
>> > At 09:11 AM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>> >>The housemate is gone. One of the wife's cats is dying, so she
>> >>asked him to come home.
>> >>
>> >>Karen
>>
>> > Were you un welcoming to him?
>>
>>No. Do you think he made this up so he could leave gracefully? I
>>don't think so.

> I don't know. I was just curious about how people handle these situations
> so that it doesn't repeat.

Hm. I don't know. He wasn't thrilled that I laughed when he
suggested that she only wanted him back to bury the cat.
Sometimes I get the feeling that he likes the kid and isn't so
hot on the wife. But none of it is any of my business.

I think it's quite likely that it will happen again, and that
nothing I do can affect it.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 09:41:43 2003
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
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At 10:05 AM 2/23/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
> > Betcha you don't like salmonfish or red snapperfish, either.
>
>How about catfish?

'Catfish' is an accepted common name for members of the Ictaluridae,
Siluridae, and some other 25 families of the Order
Siluriformes.  'Tunafish' is not an accepted common name for any member of
the Scombridae.

cwv

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At 02:59 PM 2/23/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:

>>It worked in Japan after WWII...
>
>And for a more recent example, Afghanistan.

Well, maybe it will work there.

cwv

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Karen Kay wrote:

> > << Saturday, February 22, 2003, 9:44:42 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> >> Wouldn't we actually gain in prestige if we marched the troops
> >> home without firing a shot?
....
> That doesn't seem to be the way it works. Can you name any other
> country who gained prestige from such a situation?

Can you name any other country who has lost prestige by doing it?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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>We don't have to go to war with France---just lure them over to our beaches
>and have a Florida cop run over them.
>cwv

Did you hear that some restaurants are renaming their French Fries Freedom
Fries?   Next we'll be planting Victory Gardens.


    --bonniev

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>Snort. ROFL. So that's compassionate conservatism? Who decides what's
>worthy?     --alyce

I think they appoint a panel of ousted CEOs.


    --bonniev

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bonniev wrote:

> certainly, given that Iraq is a nation whose wealth comes from the sale of
> oil, the US would have to put out the oil fires and restart production in
> order to rebuild Iraq.

    Why?  It wouldn't do us any good.  The local "No blood for oil" crowd would
do well to research TotalFinaElf and then tell me how a war would be cheaper fo
us - and the US - than just buying the damn stuff outright if that's the point.

JMW

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Karen Kay wrote:

> I think it's quite likely that it will happen again, and that
> nothing I do can affect it.

You could issue him card-style keys to the house with the dates
programmed in to keep the key from working on weekends.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:
>
> >We don't have to go to war with France---just lure them over to our beaches
> >and have a Florida cop run over them.
> >cwv
>
> Did you hear that some restaurants are renaming their French Fries Freedom
> Fries?   Next we'll be planting Victory Gardens.

Where did I read something about dumping French wine into Boston
Harbor?  I read it a few days ago.

Victory gardens made sense, imho.  Renaming dachshunds didn't, imho.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:59:56 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
> Did you hear that some restaurants are renaming their French Fries Freedom
> Fries?

Yes, actually, because I posted it yesterday with the aujus.

alyce

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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> >Well, yes.  He slices eye parts.  He's been using lasers for years, and
> >isn't that what lasers do?  They slice?
>
> Finally - some information! THANK YOU! Are you competing with Karen now?

I found your question quite peculiar (not the first question asking what
he did to make money -- the followup about whether he slices when I had
already said he did -- it seems to me a no-brainer in either direction
-- i.e., "he slices on eyes" = he's an ophthalmic surgeon or "he's an
ophthalmic surgeon" = he slices on eyes.  I don't know why you were
having difficulty comprehending that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> > The US even has a plan to donate the profits
> > from oil production to worthy causes.
>
> Snort. ROFL. So that's compassionate conservatism? Who decides what's
> worthy?

Perhaps buying waterford bowls for my RRSIL?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:

> Betcha you don't like salmonfish or red snapperfish, either.

    Or Mount Fugiyama.

JMW

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 10:03:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I think I failed to report that I bought a Sniffer yesterday.  Wait --
that's not the name -- a Swiffer?  a Swisher?  a Swifler?  a Sniffler?
One of those mop things with papers.  I'm hoping it will help with
pawprints.

I need to GWTP.  There is much to be done today.  Will let y'all know
how the Sthing works out.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 10:56:19 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:53:08 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] report from NYC
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In a message dated 02/23/2003 10:00:37 AM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
Where did I read something about dumping French wine into Boston
Harbor?  I read it a few days ago.


>>

All that wine wasted; what a pity!  He could have donated it to charity
to sell off.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 11:05:20 2003
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Subject: Re: acadiafest
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On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 02:42 , bonniev wrote:

>> "Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:
>> >  Others may be interested in this excerpt from the current
>> > State Department consular information sheet on Morocco:
>>
>> Yes, I am interested, because my life is not charmed. Nor was I planning
>> to go to Morocco, of course.
>>
>> Do you have one of these sheets for Namibia?
>> alyce
>
> Or the USA?   Or Italy?

http://www.fco.gov.uk you will find the info nder country advice and tips.

>
>    --bonniev
>
Roy

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 11:28:27 2003
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=
= http://www.fco.gov.uk you will find the info nder country advice and tips.

= Roy

Oooh.  Makes traveling to the USA sound scary.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 11:29:57 2003
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Bethany K. Dumas writes,

>(We could start saying <hamburgermeat> sandwiches.)

Ethan grew up eating "tofu wieners" instead of the real thing.

One day (when he was still little) we took him to a place with a hot dog
stand.  He expressed interest in eating a hot dog.

We told him, "Sorry, Ethan those are made from meat."

He responded with, "oh, I don't like meat tofuwieners."

And that reminds me of the time driving through Quebec with barely enough
French to be dangerous, when I saw a sign on a restaurant that said "Chien
Chaud."  It took me a second to get "dog", then another second to get
",hot", and then my head snapped around to Johanne, and I said, "OMG! They
eat dogs here!"

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 12:01:26 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:58:20 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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It's not imho a substitute for real mopping, but I think it's going to
be useful for quick jobs when there is not time for real mopping.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 12:07:20 2003
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Natalie Maynor writes,

>It's not imho a substitute for real mopping, but I think it's going to
>be useful for quick jobs when there is not time for real mopping.

I've never tried wet Swiffers, but the dry ones are magic for dusting.  We
buy box of refills, cut them into smaller pieces and use them as dustcloths.

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 12:23:21 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:20:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Tom Lee <flint@kiva.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Snow shoveling
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        (Here in Bloomington, Indiana) we got about 6 inches of snow
yesterday and last night.  And we're shoveling it off the driveway.  I'm
in for a rest but am going back out.  This is more snow than southern
Indiana is used to.

--
Take care,
Tom Lee (flint@kiva.net)
Tired already

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 12:24:09 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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> > >So I hope for that and cast my lot with Wolfy.
>
> Good luck.  I will when the Security Council does.  Not because the
> Security Council is right, but because that's how a civil society
works, by
> making it look like it's following its own rules (however that works
out
> behind closed doors).
>
> Pete


This from a letter to the editor of a local
newspaper:

"By the way, where were those protesters when
Bill Clinton sent 39 missiles into Iraq and
attacked Bosnia, Kosovo and Croatia with
no OK from the United Nations?"

I don't know if this guy has it right, and my
memory has too many holes in it for me to
draw up the details from that time not too
long ago.  I just remember that I was appalled
when it happened.



                                - D. M.

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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>So yes.  I am sure that my brother has sliced quite often.

Excellent. Thank you.

Bethany

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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Betty wrote:

>Report on long term effects in 10-20 years.

With pleasure - especially since I am now reasonably certain that I will
be able to see the computer screen. (It's already been nearly 3 years -
and my vision is still improving).

Bethany

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 12:59:55 -0600
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 9:55:13 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > << Saturday, February 22, 2003, 9:44:42 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
>> >> Wouldn't we actually gain in prestige if we marched the troops
>> >> home without firing a shot?
> ....
>> That doesn't seem to be the way it works. Can you name any other
>> country who gained prestige from such a situation?

> Can you name any other country who has lost prestige by doing it?

No, But I can think of lots of people and countried who have
gained prestige by fighting. We don't remember Hannibal because
he didn't use the elephants, for example.

Karen

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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>-- i.e., "he slices on eyes" = he's an ophthalmic surgeon

I would not have made that assumption. I know no one who has had eyes
actually sliced.

Bethany

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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 9:58:41 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> You could issue him card-style keys to the house with the dates
> programmed in to keep the key from working on weekends.

Can't afford to re-key the locks.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:03:03 -0600
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 12:02:55 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
> I've never tried wet Swiffers, but the dry ones are magic for dusting.  We
> buy box of refills, cut them into smaller pieces and use them as dustcloths.

I use these electrostatic thingies. They are magic! And washable.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:41:32 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Peter Kaminski wrote:

> I've never tried wet Swiffers, but the dry ones are magic for dusting.  We
> buy box of refills, cut them into smaller pieces and use them as dustcloths.

I got a wet one because of muddy pawprints but might like having a dry
one also -- for clumps of doghair.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
    having decided that basketball sux

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:45:17 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
> I just remember that I was appalled
> when it happened.

Me too.  I don't think anybody has ever accused Clinton of being a
dove.  But my memory, especially of the Iraq thing, was that there was
no time to organize peace rallies.  The move was quite sudden, iirc.  As
for the Balkans, my memory is that the US was acting with NATO and with
UN permission.  Like you, however, I can't give the specific details of
the resolutions etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:01:14 -0600
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 1:50:31 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> >> >> Wouldn't we actually gain in prestige if we marched the troops
>> >> >> home without firing a shot?
>> > ....
>> >> That doesn't seem to be the way it works. Can you name any other
>> >> country who gained prestige from such a situation?
>>
>> > Can you name any other country who has lost prestige by doing it?
>>
>> No, But I can think of lots of people and countried who have
>> gained prestige by fighting. We don't remember Hannibal because
>> he didn't use the elephants, for example.

> I don't see your logic.  It's like trying to prove a negative.  I don't
> see that you've given any evidence to show that we might not gain
> prestige by going home without fighting.

I'm not providing evidence to show that we might not gain
prestige by not fighting, just stating that AFAIK, it has never
happened and is unlikely to happen. It is unreasonable to expect
that we might gain prestige in this manner.

But you know all that.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:26:45 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 1:19:14 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> No, But I can think of lots of people and countried who have
>> gained prestige by fighting. We don't remember Hannibal because
>> he didn't use the elephants, for example.

> But why is it important to gain prestige? Why do we want to be
> remembered for fighting?

Got me. All I know is, that seems to be the way it works.

I spent an hour this morning listening to people who visit death
row inmates. One of them is a lawyer who specializes in juvenile
death row cases. A more immediate question for me at the moment
is why the fuck do we have such a thing as juvenile death row? I
don't have an answer for that, either.

Karen

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In a message dated 2/23/2003 4:58:44 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< A joke, THeo. Many Americans do not understand au jus.

alyce
 >>

Oh. I must not have been here long 'nuff to know about it.;-) Although I DO
know about *You learn something new every day!* I'm having company from
Maine. He's lived here all his life; gonna test him about it! Theo

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:48:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> I would not have made that assumption. I know no one who has had eyes
> actually sliced.

Lots of people have.  E.g., how do you think old corneas are removed
when new ones are transplanted?  Iow, how do pieces of the eye get
unstuck from each other?  As for what Alyce said about slicing in the
days before lasers, I don't see laser vs knife as really relevant.  I
see the doctor as the agent in both cases, with the knife or the laser
the instrument.  Or to return to matters of case, the doctor would be
nominative in both situations, the laser or knife instrumental.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:15:00 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
> This from a letter to the editor of a local
> newspaper:
>
> "By the way, where were those protesters when
> Bill Clinton sent 39 missiles into Iraq and
> attacked Bosnia, Kosovo and Croatia with
> no OK from the United Nations?"
>
> I don't know if this guy has it right, and my
> memory has too many holes in it for me to
> draw up the details from that time not too
> long ago.  I just remember that I was appalled
> when it happened.
>
Doris--I don't know that you will read all that follows, but it will
tell you what actually happened, and why there were no protesters.

The following is from GOPUSA, which is a Republican conservative site.
This may refresh your memory. It was a UN peacekeeping effort in Bosnia,
Kosovo, etc., UN Resolution 1035. Dubya changed it to a job for the
European Union when the UN mandate expired.

"SARAJEVO (GOPUSA News) -- The U.N. Mission in Bosnia and Herzegovina
completed its mandate on December 31, making way for the new European
Union Peace Mission. The switch fulfills President Bush's campaign
promise to promote better burden sharing of peacekeeping forces in the
Balkans.

"The mission, created by U.N. Security Council Resolution 1035 in 1995,
was comprised of an International Police Task Force and a Civil Affairs
office. It was overseen by the Secretary-General's Special
Representative Jacques Klein, and was created to address the civil war
which engulfed the nation for much of the
1990s."

As for the missiles in Iraq, here is the URL for Clinton's letter to the
House of Representatives about why he did it. It was hardly a war, it
happened in about two minutes, and perhaps the protesters had no time to
organize.

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/ops/docs/wh_930629.htm

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
> >> >> Wouldn't we actually gain in prestige if we marched the troops
> >> >> home without firing a shot?
> > ....
> >> That doesn't seem to be the way it works. Can you name any other
> >> country who gained prestige from such a situation?
>
> > Can you name any other country who has lost prestige by doing it?
>
> No, But I can think of lots of people and countried who have
> gained prestige by fighting. We don't remember Hannibal because
> he didn't use the elephants, for example.

I don't see your logic.  It's like trying to prove a negative.  I don't
see that you've given any evidence to show that we might not gain
prestige by going home without fighting.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 2/23/2003 6:15:55 AM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< > > Have you had a chance to check out Marie Callender(sp?) yet?
> >>
I've had those too, and they're rather good IMO. I still prefer to cook from
scratch, but for one person it doesn't always pay, because you usually end up
with too many leftovers. Theo

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alyce cresap wrote:

> "The mission, created by U.N. Security Council Resolution 1035 in 1995,
> was comprised of an International Police Task Force and a Civil Affairs
> office. It was overseen by the Secretary-General's Special
> Representative Jacques Klein, and was created to address the civil war
> which engulfed the nation for much of the
> 1990s."

I think Doris was asking about the US's direct military involvement,
though, not about the UN peace-keeping forces that were there.  Surely
she realized the UN was mega involved in the area.  My hazy memory is
that the direct military force was carried out by the US as part of
NATO.

> As for the missiles in Iraq, here is the URL for Clinton's letter to the
> House of Representatives about why he did it. It was hardly a war, it
> happened in about two minutes, and perhaps the protesters had no time to
> organize.

I feel sure that protesters didn't have time to organize.  I do know
that many people objected to it after the fact and thought that Clinton
did it for <evil> reasons, etc.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > No, But I can think of lots of people and countried who have
> > gained prestige by fighting. We don't remember Hannibal because
> > he didn't use the elephants, for example.
>
> But why is it important to gain prestige? Why do we want to be
> remembered for fighting?

I consider peace-making more <prestigious>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 13:58:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 1:45:17 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I don't think anybody has ever accused Clinton of being a
> dove.

Many people have; that was one of the objections to him as CinC.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 14:06:18 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:01:41 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > I don't think anybody has ever accused Clinton of being a
> > dove.
>
> Many people have; that was one of the objections to him as CinC.

Strange.  He was too quick on the trigger for my taste -- though slower
than some other presidents, of course.  I don't mean that I think he was
anywhere near the worst, just that he was not without <sin> in using
military force, imho.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:02:51 -0600
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Karen Kay wrote:
> It is unreasonable to expect
> that we might gain prestige in this manner.

Maybe we have different ideas of prestige.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:19:14 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> No, But I can think of lots of people and countried who have
> gained prestige by fighting. We don't remember Hannibal because
> he didn't use the elephants, for example.

But why is it important to gain prestige? Why do we want to be
remembered for fighting?

alyce

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In a message dated 2/23/2003 6:32:05 AM, bonniev@PANAX.COM writes:

<< Of course I'm serious.   This is the stated intention.  Read a newspaper,
Theo.  The press is publishing the exact war plans right down to what the
first day targets will be and how we will reconstruct Iraq.
 >>
I don't think it's any of our business how they run their country. This whole
terrorist thing is beyond my understanding. How can we be sure it's coming
from Iraq, and not from any other country? Theo (who's fed up with wars)

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In a message dated 2/23/2003 7:18:12 AM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< That doesn't seem to be the way it works. Can you name any other
country who gained prestige from such a situation?

 >>
But, but... have we officially declared war with Iraq? Isn't that what you're
supposed to do before you invade a country, and destroy it? Theo (complete
ignoramus about war policies)

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Theodora Groothof writes,

>But, but... have we officially declared war with Iraq? Isn't that what you're
>supposed to do before you invade a country, and destroy it? Theo (complete
>ignoramus about war policies)

Hasn't been the preferred way to do things for at least a
half-century.  Declared "war" has all sorts of pesky rules which leaders
wish to ignore.

New with Reagan (the "war on drugs") and now Bush (the "war on terror") is
to use the "w" word in speeches, but not in actual declaration.  See George
Orwell's _1984_ for the thinking behind that one...

Pete

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:53:07 -0500
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Karen Kay wrote:
>  A more immediate question for me at the moment
> is why the fuck do we have such a thing as juvenile death row?

Ask your governor. NY does not have such a thing.

  Execution of Juvenile Offenders
 In the U.S. 21 men have been executed for crimes committed
 as juveniles since 1976.

Sixteen states and the federal government and military have a minimum of
18 for capital punishment: CA, CO, CT, IL, IN,
KS, MD, MT, NE, NJ, NM, NY, OH, OR, TN,WA, plus the
federal statutes.

Here is a disgusting page on juveniles and the death penalty:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/juvchar.html

alyce

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 14:55:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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He needs to be able to gloat.  The game's not over yet, of course.  It's
60-55 with just under three minutes left.  If we were playing somebody
other than Kentucky, I might have hope.  But, as it is, I don't.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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>I don't see your logic.  It's like trying to prove a negative.  I don't
>see that you've given any evidence to show that we might not gain
>prestige by going home without fighting.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Did Cuba or Russia gain prestige by backing down during the Cuban Missile
Crisis?


    --bonniev

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:55:33 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

 As for what Alyce said about slicing in the
> days before lasers, I don't see laser vs knife as really relevant.  I
> see the doctor as the agent in both cases,

True enough. I jusr thought Bethany wanted to know about knife slicing
since she obviously already knows a lot about lasers.

alyce

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alyce cresap wrote:

> Here is a disgusting page on juveniles and the death penalty:
> http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/juvchar.html

I find everything about the death penalty disgusting.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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> > But why is it important to gain prestige? Why do we want to be
> > remembered for fighting?
>
>I consider peace-making more <prestigious>.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

And the next time the US or the UN said "don't do that, or we will have to
hurt you", evil, invading nations would just laugh and say "yeah, right".


    --bonniev

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bonniev wrote:

> Did Cuba or Russia gain prestige by backing down during the Cuban Missile
> Crisis?

I would say yes.  The problem, of course, is that for a country to be in
such a position, prestige has already been lost.  So gaining prestige
means climbing out of a hole.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonniev wrote:
>
> > > But why is it important to gain prestige? Why do we want to be
> > > remembered for fighting?
> >
> >I consider peace-making more <prestigious>.
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> And the next time the US or the UN said "don't do that, or we will have to
> hurt you", evil, invading nations would just laugh and say "yeah, right".

? I said peace-making.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:00:49 -0500
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I think Doris was asking about the US's direct military involvement,

I can't remember being involved without NATO or UN participation. I did
find this:

Washington, 18 November 1996 (RFE/RL) - President Bill Clinton says he
has agreed to provide U.S. troops to a force the NATO alliance plans to
keep in Bosnia to maintain peace there. He says the United States will
also contribute troops to a humanitarian relief effort planned for the
African nation of Zaire.

At a White House press conference Friday, Clinton confirmed what had
been speculation in Washington last week -- that the United States would
participate in what is being called a new NATO-led mission planned for
Bosnia.

A NATO-led force of about 60,000, including about 20,000 Americans, has
been in Bosnia for almost a year enforcing the terms of a peace
agreement worked out among Bosnia's Muslim, Serb and Croat factions. The
NATO force is scheduled to start pulling out next month, but alliance
leaders agree that a smaller NATO mission will have to stay on to
prevent civil war from flaring again.

Friday, Clinton said NATO had accomplished all of its goals for Bosnia,
including separating the warring parties, removing heavy weapons,
maintaining a ceasefire and "planting the seeds for democracy."

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 15:08:32 2003
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>I don't think it's any of our business how they run their country.

It becomes the world's business in this day and age when one country
threatens to attack its own citizens, it's neighbors, or its region.  We no
longer live on little islands where one nation does not affect another.

>This whole terrorist thing is beyond my understanding. How can we be sure
>it's coming
>from Iraq, and not from any other country? Theo (who's fed up with wars)

We are all fed up with wars.  But some of us think they are sometimes
necessary to avoid a greater evil.  We know who funds and who backs
terrorists because we, and our allies, have an intelligence gathering
community that figures these things out.


    --bonniev

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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>  This whole
> terrorist thing is beyond my understanding. How can we be sure it's coming
> from Iraq, and not from any other country?

Well, that is the current Big Question. There seems to be no real
evidence that Iraq is involved in terrorism or with AlQaeda. But Colin
Powell and Dubya are intent on making a case for it. In fact, yesterday
the President of Spain made a long speech down at the ranch about how
Spain will be a US ally in the war on terrorism. Presumably he is to be
an ally in Iraq, but he never mentioned Iraq, only terrorism. They
should be two different things, totally separate.

alyce

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Sixteen states and the federal government and military have a minimum of
>18 for capital punishment: CA, CO, CT, IL, IN,
>KS, MD, MT, NE, NJ, NM, NY, OH, OR, TN,WA, plus the
>federal statutes.      --alyce

And, note, that some states, including Maine, have no capital punishment at
all.


    --bonniev

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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> But, but... have we officially declared war with Iraq?

The UN resolution threatens "serious consequences." Presumably that
means war. In theory, only the US Congress can declare war. But there
have been these other acts passed that some would say allow Dubya to go
ahead with a war. Some congressmen have filed a suit to stop him.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 15:20:32 2003
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bonniev wrote:
> It becomes the world's business in this day and age when one country
> threatens to attack its own citizens, it's neighbors, or its region.  We no
> longer live on little islands where one nation does not affect another.

Iraq has not threatened to attack us, its neighbors, or its region (I am
not sure of recent threats on its own citizens, though I realize that
was done some years ago).

alyce

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bonniev wrote:
> >
> And, note, that some states, including Maine, have no capital punishment at
> all.

Which is as it should be. I think that in NY the only capital punishment
is for killing a policeman.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 15:32:16 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: How to Kill a Sunday Afternoon
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I made the leap and bought my digital
camera yesterday at Sam's Club.
I got the Kodak LS=443.

Now I am going nuts programming
it and trying to learn how to use it.

Not easy.

I suppose the grandkids could do it
in a few minbutes.

             - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 15:44:20 2003
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I suppose the grandkids could do it
in a few minbutes.

             - D. M.

This is how I spell when I'm
discombobulated by technology.

                - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 15:52:24 2003
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> I suppose the grandkids could do it
> in a few minbutes.

You can do it, Doris.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 15:58:34 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 15:56:03 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: How to Kill a Sunday Afternoon
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I've been writing lesson plans for Romeo & Juliet and Julius
Caesar.  Lots of overlap, which is good.  Ana is at the St.
Louis Zoo for a birthday party.  I'm sure she's having a
blast.  It's Joshua's party -- the same Joshua who writes "I
love Ana" in his journal.  Apparently they have a great love
of animals in common.

Next week is Grandparents Day at her school.  Last year I
goofed big time about it.  I figured it wasn't a big deal
for kids who didn't have grandparents in the area and kinda
forgot about it.  Bad move.  This year I asked her who she
would like to invite as an honorary grandparent figuring
Carol across the street (she plays with Carol's grandson all
the time) would be her choice.  Nope.  She insisted that she
wanted to invite Father Tudor.  Well, he was tickled to
pieces when she invited him this morning -- way too cute.  I
told Liz (his wife) that we were warming him up for
grandfatherhood (their oldest son just got married) :).  I
think Ana and Rich are in cahoots; she holds his hymnal book
every Sunday when he does the gospel reading.  Cracks me up.

OK, back to work.  I don't know that I want to plan all that
closely as the sky is looking like we may get an
honest-to-god snow tonight.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 15:59:00 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:53:25 -0500
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CNN just had a thing about the latest in weaponry, including a 70-ton
tank. A huge and useless thing, really, that does not fit in a plane or
on a ship. The general who was showing things off said he doesn't like
it and that he wants a little tank that will go down narrow streets,
because "our future battles are going to be in cities, towns, and
villages." Of course I know they expect to fight in the streets of
Baghdad, but that is not what he meant, because he was talking of
designing new things--like at least 4-5 years into the future. And so my
question is, in what cities, towns, and villages are we planning to
fight 4-5 years hence? It sounded as if he had it all planned.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 16:21:49 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:16:15 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: weapons of the future
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At 04:53 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:
>. And so my
>question is, in what cities, towns, and villages are we planning to
>fight 4-5 years hence? It sounded as if he had it all planned.

I doubt that he has any particular campaign planned.  Most strategists
agree that the military actions of the future will not be the pitched
battles of say, WWII or Korea, but rather smaller actions against terrorist
groups---and that much of the fighting will be in urban environments.  The
emphasis therefore is changing basically to what we have seen in
Afghanistan---relatively small, highly trained (and supported by high tech.
intelligence and weaponry) groups.  So your general is right---in that sort
of action, a 70-ton tank probably only is good for impeding traffic.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 16:39:41 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:33:49 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
> -in that sort
> of action, a 70-ton tank probably only is good for impeding traffic.

I can't think of anywhere that it would do much good. Nor could the
general. Yet I am sure it set us back a few million. Had to be
somebody's pork. Else why do it?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 16:56:27 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:53:15 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> We are all fed up with wars.  But some of us think they are sometimes
> necessary to avoid a greater evil.  We know who funds and who backs
> terrorists because we, and our allies, have an intelligence gathering
> community that figures these things out.

So we're attacking Saudi Arabia?  How soon?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 16:55:28 -0600
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alyce cresap wrote:

>  In theory, only the US Congress can declare war.

That theory is called the U.S. Constitution.  The wording is quite
unambiguous.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 16:59:25 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:46:22 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>> I would not have made that assumption. I know no one who has had eyes
>> actually sliced.
>
>Lots of people have.  E.g., how do you think old corneas are removed
>when new ones are transplanted?  Iow, how do pieces of the eye get
>unstuck from each other?  As for what Alyce said about slicing in the

I believe you. I just don't happen to know any of them so far as I know.

I think old corneas are removed by benng excised, How do you think they
are removed?

Bethany

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Doris Markland wrote:

> Now I am going nuts programming
> it and trying to learn how to use it.

What does programming it mean?  Mine is obviously one made for dummies.
It's extremely simple to use.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:01:01 2003
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> > We are all fed up with wars.  But some of us think they are sometimes
> > necessary to avoid a greater evil.  We know who funds and who backs
> > terrorists because we, and our allies, have an intelligence gathering
> > community that figures these things out.
>
>So we're attacking Saudi Arabia?  How soon?
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

The exact same thing is happening to me that happened during the first
Bush's Gulf War.  I started out against it.  But the more I talked to my
rowing partner, with his bleeding heart misdirection and stupid
argumentation, the more I began to be totally in favor of war.

And, like Doris, that's all I have to say about it.  Clearly, your mind is
made up and you don't want to listen.

    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:01:10 2003
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I thought of you today at lunch.  We had dim sum .  Not a  glass divider in
sight though.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:02:35 2003
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>Doris Markland wrote:
> > Now I am going nuts programming
> > it and trying to learn how to use it.
>
>What does programming it mean?  Mine is obviously one made for dummies.
>It's extremely simple to use.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

How soon you forget.  When you bought your digital camera, you talked for
about two days on list about interfacing it with your computer and what
kind of card reader you should get and if WalMart carried the right cords,
etc., etc.


    --bonniev

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:01:25 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> CNN just had a thing about the latest in weaponry, including a 70-ton
> tank. A huge and useless thing, really, that does not fit in a plane or
> on a ship.

If it doesn't fit on a plane or ship, I guess the idea must be that
we'll use it when we attack Canada and Mexico.  Or maybe it will be used
if US states start trying to secede.

> question is, in what cities, towns, and villages are we planning to
> fight 4-5 years hence? It sounded as if he had it all planned.

I guess that depends on how fast we move along with the agenda.  Maybe
we'll be through with the Middle East after four or five years and will
have moved along to fighting in the streets of Paris.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:03:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>  She insisted that she
> wanted to invite Father Tudor.  Well, he was tickled to
> pieces when she invited him this morning -- way too cute.

I love it.

>  I
> told Liz (his wife) that we were warming him up for
> grandfatherhood (their oldest son just got married) :).  I
> think Ana and Rich are in cahoots; she holds his hymnal book
> every Sunday when he does the gospel reading.  Cracks me up.

Rich is their recently married son?  Hmm.  Seems to me that the people
who object to "tunafish" will soon be questioning you about "hymnal
book."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:07:04 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:

> I think old corneas are removed by benng excised, How do you think they
> are removed?

As I've said before, I find medical details repulsive.  I think I might
have mentioned here a long time ago how grossed out I was sometime way
back in my brother's early years of practice when I noticed empty boxes
in his house labeled "human eyes -- handle with care" -- or maybe it was
"human eyes -- keep refrigerated."

To answer your question, I would assume they're excised -- yanked out --
sliced loose -- grabbed.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:08:40 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: How to Kill a Sunday Afternoon
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Natalie Maynor wrote:


>> I
>>told Liz (his wife) that we were warming him up for
>>grandfatherhood (their oldest son just got married) :).  I
>>think Ana and Rich are in cahoots; she holds his hymnal book
>>every Sunday when he does the gospel reading.  Cracks me up.
>>
>
> Rich is their recently married son?  Hmm.  Seems to me that the people
> who object to "tunafish" will soon be questioning you about "hymnal
> book."


        No, Father Rich Tudor.  His newly married son is Robert.
Robert is in South Korea in the army.  Yes, "hymnal book" is
probably redundant.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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>
> > Now I am going nuts programming
> > it and trying to learn how to use it.
>
> What does programming it mean?  Mine is obviously one made for
dummies.
> It's extremely simple to use.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Actually the only things I had to program were
the date and time, etc., and any changes I
wanted to make in the settings.  The rest of
my exhaustive efforts were just in learning
how to move in and out of programs and
get the right stuff up on the screen.

          - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:16:40 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:13:28 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> > > We are all fed up with wars.  But some of us think they are sometimes
> > > necessary to avoid a greater evil.  We know who funds and who backs
> > > terrorists because we, and our allies, have an intelligence gathering
> > > community that figures these things out.
> >
> >So we're attacking Saudi Arabia?  How soon?
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> The exact same thing is happening to me that happened during the first
> Bush's Gulf War.  I started out against it.  But the more I talked to my
> rowing partner, with his bleeding heart misdirection and stupid
> argumentation, the more I began to be totally in favor of war.
>
> And, like Doris, that's all I have to say about it.  Clearly, your mind is
> made up and you don't want to listen.

I find it sad that you reach your conclusions ad hominem rather than by
thinking.  I also think it's sad that you (and perhaps Doris) think that
somebody who is in disagreement with you on something doesn't want to
listen.  I am always listening and learning.  And I often change my mind
about things.  Although the way I worded my questions above was a joking
sort of style, I really would like to know why we're going to attack
Iraq instead of Saudi Arabia if this is about funding/backing
terrorists.  I would welcome your explanation of the reasoning.  Maybe
then I would see the light.

You say that your rowing partner offered "stupid argumentation."  Is
that worse than copping out and refusing to discuss an important issue
at all?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:20:56 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
> >Doris Markland wrote:
> > > Now I am going nuts programming
> > > it and trying to learn how to use it.
> >
> >What does programming it mean?  Mine is obviously one made for dummies.
> >It's extremely simple to use.
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> How soon you forget.  When you bought your digital camera, you talked for
> about two days on list about interfacing it with your computer and what
> kind of card reader you should get and if WalMart carried the right cords,
> etc., etc.

Ohhh.  I had no idea that's what Doris was talking about since she said
programming "it" -- which I foolishly interpreted to mean the camera.
My digital camera has nothing at all to program.  I did ask opinions
about card readers and such, and my computer would not run the software
that came with the camera -- which was why I went to Radio Shack and
bought this computer.  (But I don't remember any programming involved.)

Iow, I didn't realize Doris was talking about the computer.  I thought
she was talking about the camera.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:19:13 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 5:02:18 PM, Betty wrote:
> I thought of you today at lunch.  We had dim sum .  Not a  glass divider in
> sight though.

Whew!:) None of the places here have them either. I guess my
reputation precedes me.

It's nice to be thought of, even in <that way>.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:21:19 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> Actually the only things I had to program were
> the date and time, etc., and any changes I
> wanted to make in the settings.

So indeed your camera is much fancier than mine.  Mine doesn't do dates
and times and settings.

> The rest of
> my exhaustive efforts were just in learning
> how to move in and out of programs and
> get the right stuff up on the screen.

The camera screen or the computer screen?  If the former, then Bonniemae
was wrong! :-)  My camera is a no-brainer.  You just turn it on, look
through the little hole like on any camera, and push the button like on
any camera.  (It does have a toggle for zooming.  I forget about that
usually since I haven't had many zooming occasions.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:29:36 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
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At 05:19 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Sunday, February 23, 2003, 5:02:18 PM, Betty wrote:
> > I thought of you today at lunch.  We had dim sum .  Not a  glass divider in
> > sight though.
>
>Whew!:) None of the places here have them either. I guess my
>reputation precedes me.
>
>It's nice to be thought of, even in <that way>.
>
>Karen

And then we stopped by Krispy Kreme on the way home . They just opened a
new one in Pinole.  Larry had never had one of their doughnuts.  Didn't
someone here buy their stock?

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:34:13 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: How to Kill a Sunday Afternoon
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:34:55 -0600
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>
> > The rest of
> > my exhaustive efforts were just in learning
> > how to move in and out of programs and
> > get the right stuff up on the screen.
>
> The camera screen or the computer screen?  If the former, then
Bonniemae
> was wrong! :-)  My camera is a no-brainer.  You just turn it on, look
> through the little hole like on any camera, and push the button like
on
> any camera.  (It does have a toggle for zooming.  I forget about that
> usually since I haven't had many zooming occasions.)
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

The camera screen.  There's a tiny joy stick that
moves you around.  It does take a bit of
concentration to learn to use it.

Then, for the computer, of course, I had to
download software for dealing with the pictures.

                     - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:39:24 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:36:27 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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Betty wrote:

> At 05:19 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>
>> Sunday, February 23, 2003, 5:02:18 PM, Betty wrote:
>> > I thought of you today at lunch.  We had dim sum .  Not a  glass
>> divider in
>> > sight though.
>>
>> Whew!:) None of the places here have them either. I guess my
>> reputation precedes me.
>>
>> It's nice to be thought of, even in <that way>.
>>
>> Karen
>
>
> And then we stopped by Krispy Kreme on the way home . They just opened a
> new one in Pinole.  Larry had never had one of their doughnuts.  Didn't
> someone here buy their stock?


        Yes, thank you for contributing to the Chapman Family bottom
line.  We don't eat them, however; Kevin and I think they
taste gross.  I don't think I patronize any of the companies
we own stock in except SBC -- and that stock isn't worth
anything.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:40:04 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:27:00 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Betty wrote:

>And then we stopped by Krispy Kreme on the way home . They just opened a
>new one in Pinole.  Larry had never had one of their doughnuts.  Didn't
>someone here buy their stock?

moi. I own some.

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:52:41 2003
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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
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Subject: The Life of David Gale
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:53:58 -0600
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Great film. I enjoyed it.

AS

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:53:13 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:50:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 5:30:43 PM, Betty wrote:
> And then we stopped by Krispy Kreme on the way home . They just opened a
> new one in Pinole.  Larry had never had one of their doughnuts.  Didn't
> someone here buy their stock?

Don't know. I don't like the glazed KK, but I think their filled
ones are quite good.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 17:52:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 5:53:58 PM, Amy Burns Short wrote:
> Great film. I enjoyed it.

I wouldn't mind listening to Kevin Spacey read the phone book.

Or whatever the expression is.

Karen

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At 05:36 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>Betty wrote:
>
>>At 05:19 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>>>Sunday, February 23, 2003, 5:02:18 PM, Betty wrote:
>>> > I thought of you today at lunch.  We had dim sum .  Not a  glass
>>>divider in
>>> > sight though.
>>>
>>>Whew!:) None of the places here have them either. I guess my
>>>reputation precedes me.
>>>
>>>It's nice to be thought of, even in <that way>.
>>>
>>>Karen
>>
>>
>>And then we stopped by Krispy Kreme on the way home . They just opened a
>>new one in Pinole.  Larry had never had one of their doughnuts.  Didn't
>>someone here buy their stock?
>
>
>        Yes, thank you for contributing to the Chapman Family bottom
>line.  We don't eat them, however; Kevin and I think they
>taste gross.  I don't think I patronize any of the companies
>we own stock in except SBC -- and that stock isn't worth
>anything.

Anything to help a struggling family.  :-)  I really don't understand the
popularity either but every time a new one opens people are lined up.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:56:52 2003
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At 06:27 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
>On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Betty wrote:
>
> >And then we stopped by Krispy Kreme on the way home . They just opened a
> >new one in Pinole.  Larry had never had one of their doughnuts.  Didn't
> >someone here buy their stock?
>
>moi. I own some.
>
>Bethany

Is the stock still increasing in value? We only bought three so I didn't
contribute too much.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 17:59:22 2003
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In a message dated 02/23/2003 5:52:46 PM Central Standard Time,
bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU writes:

<<
Anything to help a struggling family.  :-)  I really don't understand the
popularity either but every time a new one opens people are lined up.


>>

When the one started here (E. 71st and Highway 169), the 135 bus
had to skip that part of its route due to the highway congestion.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 18:03:48 2003
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alyce:
>>it sucks when it sucks to go to the library.
> Agreed. It is wrong. Tell it to Ashcroft.

Is he in charge of the <homeless program>?

Different subject.  Give it a rest.

--
Richard 6:9       ...and I thought Barkus had the animals

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 18:05:36 2003
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Karen:
> I thought sweet milk was the opposite of buttermilk.

Ah HA!

Ten years later, I FINALLY get her joke.

--
Richard 6:9       ...and I thought Barkus had the animals

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In a message dated 02/23/2003 3:18:31 PM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Which is as it should be. I think that in NY the only capital punishment
is for killing a policeman.

>>

I think they changed that.  I remember when Law and Order had its first
death penalty episode; before that the most anyone could get was
Murder Two (depraved indifference to human life).

Does anyone know what the grounds for Murder One are?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 18:09:56 2003
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 "Allow
 the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it
necessary
 to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose
to say he
 deems it necessary for such purpose - - and you allow him to make war
at
 pleasure.  Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this
respect, after
 you have given him so much as you propose.  If, to-day, he should
choose to say
 he thinks it necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from
invading us,
 how could you stop him?  You may say to him, 'I see no probability of
the British
 invading us' but he will say to you 'be silent; I see it, if you
don't.'

 "The provision of the Constitution giving the war-making power to
Congress, was
 dictated, as I understand it, by the following reasons.  Kings had
always been
 involving and impoverishing their people in wars, pretending generally,
if not
 always, that the good of the people was the object.  This, our
Convention
 understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and
they resolved
 to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of
bringing this
 oppression upon us."

-- Abraham Lincoln

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 18:10:43 2003
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RRC:
>It has never occurred to me to do such a thing.  No wonder
>I've never been "popular."

You are accusing me of having been <"popular">?

Something tells me the circle of shit is, indeed,
significantly different from a lemon squeeze.

A "lemon squeeze" sounds like a drink one of Bertie
Wooster's innumerable fiancees would have drunk.

And, no, BrP, Bertie was not gay.

--
Richard 6:9       ...and I thought Barkus had the animals

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 18:15:46 2003
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Ceryn, for either the 2nd or 3rd time:
>ophthalmologist, or however it's spelled.

Don't you have a spellchecker?

Or a dictionary?

--
I always just say op-ta-MOL-a-jist

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Natalie Blue:
> pleasant day when the NO police were selling beer at a street stand

Yes, the 8th District throws a party every year.

It's like a smaller, more affordable, JazzFest.

(not really)

--
Richard 6:9       ...and I thought Barkus had the animals

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02003-02-23 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
> The exact same thing is happening to me that happened during the first
> Bush's Gulf War.  I started out against it.  But the more I talked to
> my rowing partner, with his bleeding heart misdirection and stupid
> argumentation, the more I began to be totally in favor of war.

In that case, I agree totally.

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:15:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> The camera screen.  There's a tiny joy stick that
> moves you around.  It does take a bit of
> concentration to learn to use it.

That does sound complicated.  But I know you're going to love having a
digital camera.

> Then, for the computer, of course, I had to
> download software for dealing with the pictures.

That part isn't hard if your computer is up to it.  My old computer
wasn't, but it was no problem when I went to Radio Shack and bought this
newer computer.  Everything worked fine then -- but I then asked
questions on the list about card-readers because I didn't like the
clumsy process and the battery drain of using the cord that came with
the camera.  (Re what Bonnie was saying earlier, I don't remember asking
any questions about cords related to card-readers since a card-reader
doesn't require a cord -- or at least mine doesn't.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Rita Chapman wrote:

>  I don't think I patronize any of the companies
> we own stock in except SBC -- and that stock isn't worth
> anything.

Have I revealed before that I own stock in *Microshit*?  Not directly,
of course.  Normally I don't pay attention to the stuff that comes in
the mail re mutual funds, but sometime in the past year or so I did look
at the one for my "socially aware" fund, out of curiosity about what
kinds of companies were included.  And I saw Microshit listed.  When I
asked the person in charge of my stuff about it, she said that "socially
aware" funds don't necessarily seek out companies that are activists in
save-the-rainforests or whatever -- that they simply don't buy from
companies that they believe to be abusers of people or the environment.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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02003-02-23 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
>  "Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall
>  deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so
>  whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose - -
>  and you allow him to make war at pleasure.  Study to see if you can fix
>  any limit to his power in this respect, after you have given him so much
>  as you propose.  If, to-day, he should choose to say he thinks it
>  necessary to invade Canada, to prevent the British from invading us, how
>  could you stop him?  You may say to him, 'I see no probability of the
>  British invading us' but he will say to you 'be silent; I see it, if you
>  don't.'

Sounds like a paranoid girl to me. Anyway, overly general "principles"
like this are irrelevant to maintaining the prestige and respect the US
must have in the current stage of history.

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:22:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:12:45 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> Ceryn, for either the 2nd or 3rd time:
>>ophthalmologist, or however it's spelled.

> Don't you have a spellchecker?

> Or a dictionary?

Actually, no. I don't.

Karen

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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> When the one started here (E. 71st and Highway 169), the 135 bus
> had to skip that part of its route due to the highway congestion.

I'm finding this donut discussion somehow hilarious -- but also sad in a
way, given the stuff you read about the <fattening of America>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty wrote:

>   I really don't understand the
> popularity either but every time a new one opens people are lined up.

I guess it's more nutritious than eating lettuce over the sink.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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bonnie:
>I don't express my opinion on issues but rather
>take a more philosophical stance.

I'm green with that.

Give me your (philosophical, if you prefer) take
on the Jesica Santillan clusterfuck.

How pissed off should the theoretical type-A person
be who was denied the original set of organs due to
some kind of bureaucratic screwup?

How pissed off should the theoretical type-O person
be who was denied the second set of organs due to
all the CYA and PR stuff?

These are serious questions, and in the interest of
full disclosure, I say my late father wandered around
with someone else's liver for many a year.

So, I ask you, as a <trained medical ethicist>, what's
the 411?

--
Richard 6:9       ...and I thought Barkus had the animals

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:33:02 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:28:57 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> Give me your (philosophical, if you prefer) take
> on the Jesica Santillan clusterfuck.

Thank you for bringing this. I have found myself blindingly
angry.

> These are serious questions, and in the interest of
> full disclosure, I say my late father wandered around
> with someone else's liver for many a year.

Livers are easier to get than heart+lung. They only do about 20 a
year, I thought.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:34:22 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:33:02 PM, Karen Kay wrote:

> Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:28:57 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
>> Give me your (philosophical, if you prefer) take
>> on the Jesica Santillan clusterfuck.

> Thank you for bringing this. I have found myself blindingly
> angry.                     ^up

So blind, I can't type!

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:36:18 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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Betty wrote:

> At 06:27 PM 2/23/2003 -0500, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Betty wrote:
>>
>> >And then we stopped by Krispy Kreme on the way home . They just opened a
>> >new one in Pinole.  Larry had never had one of their doughnuts.  Didn't
>> >someone here buy their stock?
>>
>> moi. I own some.
>>
>> Bethany
>
>
> Is the stock still increasing in value? We only bought three so I didn't
> contribute too much.
>


        I think hubby mentioned that it has leveled off lately.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 18:39:34 2003
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Karen:
> is why the fuck do we have such a thing as juvenile death row?

Because we have such a thing as juvenile psychopaths.

Ever eyeballed one?

You'll find no more ardent foe of CP than I am,
but try to see the other point of view.  There
are certain folks who find certain acts beyond
redemption.  There are limited resources to fix
the ones who can be fixed, and wasting those
meager assets is unthinkable.

Angola has a stack of teenaged lifers who were
lucky enough to have a jury full of bleeding
hearts like me.

--
Richard 6:9       ...and I thought Barkus had the animals

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:38:39 -0600
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C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:

> RRC:
>
>>It has never occurred to me to do such a thing.  No wonder
>>I've never been "popular."
>>
>
> You are accusing me of having been <"popular">?


        Nope.


> Something tells me the circle of shit is, indeed,
> significantly different from a lemon squeeze.
>
> A "lemon squeeze" sounds like a drink one of Bertie
> Wooster's innumerable fiancees would have drunk.


        It sounds like a debutante drink.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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At 06:33 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:28:57 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> > Give me your (philosophical, if you prefer) take
> > on the Jesica Santillan clusterfuck.
>
>Thank you for bringing this up. I have found myself blindingly
>angry.

Me, too!  I'm most angry about her getting the second implant.

Betty

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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:36:35 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> Angola has a stack of teenaged lifers who were
> lucky enough to have a jury full of bleeding
> hearts like me.

That's pretty horrible, too.

One of my friends reminded me that this is why some people think
we are The Great Satan.

Karen

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C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:

> Karen:
>
>>is why the fuck do we have such a thing as juvenile death row?
>>
>
> Because we have such a thing as juvenile psychopaths.
>
> Ever eyeballed one?


        Plenty of them.  Heck, I've taught a few.  I don't find them
much different than other kids when I have them one-on-one.


> You'll find no more ardent foe of CP than I am,
> but try to see the other point of view.  There
> are certain folks who find certain acts beyond
> redemption.  There are limited resources to fix
> the ones who can be fixed, and wasting those
> meager assets is unthinkable.


        But we have a policy of not leaving any child behind!



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 18:45:56 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 18:42:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:43:57 PM, Betty wrote:

> At 06:33 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>>Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:28:57 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
>> > Give me your (philosophical, if you prefer) take
>> > on the Jesica Santillan clusterfuck.
>>
>>Thank you for bringing this up. I have found myself blindingly
>>angry.

> Me, too!  I'm most angry about her getting the second implant.

I think I'm most angry about them wasting the first one and
nearly killing her as a result.

Karen

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>How pissed off should the theoretical type-A person
>be who was denied the original set of organs due to
>some kind of bureaucratic screwup?


Extremely pissed off.


>How pissed off should the theoretical type-O person
>be who was denied the second set of organs due to
>all the CYA and PR stuff?


Even more pissed off.  Certainly, they had good reason to know she was
already brain dead before they put her ahead of many someone elses and gave
her another set of organs.  Bad, bad medicine.   Bad, bad ethical decision.


>These are serious questions, and in the interest of
>full disclosure, I say my late father wandered around
>with someone else's liver for many a year.
>
>So, I ask you, as a <trained medical ethicist>, what's
>the 411?
>
>--
>Richard 6:9       ...and I thought Barkus had the animals

    --bonniev

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At 06:42 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:43:57 PM, Betty wrote:
>
> > At 06:33 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
> >>Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:28:57 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> >> > Give me your (philosophical, if you prefer) take
> >> > on the Jesica Santillan clusterfuck.
> >>
> >>Thank you for bringing this up. I have found myself blindingly
> >>angry.
>
> > Me, too!  I'm most angry about her getting the second implant.
>
>I think I'm most angry about them wasting the first one and
>nearly killing her as a result.
>
>Karen

A mistake was made. They compounded it by trying to fix their bad error.
They ended up wasting two and the second one should never have been done, imo.

Betty

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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:59:26 PM, Betty wrote:
> A mistake was made. They compounded it by trying to fix their bad error.
> They ended up wasting two and the second one should never have been done, imo.

Yes. I certainly don't disagree about that.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 19:12:09 2003
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Great film. I enjoyed it.

AS

Thank you so much for reporting this.

This is the movie that my grandson was
an extra in.  We are waiting to see if he survived
or if he ended up on the cutting room floor.

He lives in Huntsville, where the movie was
filmed.  In fact, after taking part in it (where
he was a stand-in for Kevin Spacey and also
an extra in the mob scenes, etc.) he applied
and went to work for the Federal Penitentiary
there.

The movie isn't here yet, but after I see it I'll
tell you if I saw him.

            - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 19:13:01 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:07:04 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> >  In theory, only the US Congress can declare war.
>
> That theory is called the U.S. Constitution.  The wording is quite
> unambiguous.

Of course it is. But ways have been found to get around the words, so it
is no longer a sure thing. That's all I meant.

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:28:57 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> > Give me your (philosophical, if you prefer) take
> > on the Jesica Santillan clusterfuck.
>
> Thank you for bringing this. I have found myself blindingly
> angry.

At whom and why?  (NB:  I'm not disagreeing that anger is the
appropriate response.)  Has it been established yet whose fault the
screwup was -- the organ people or the Duke people?  In addition to
feeling sorry for her and her family, I also can't help but feel sorry
for the person responsible for the screwup.  That's the kind of thing
that makes me know that I made the right decision in not going into a
line of work that had such risks.  You have a momentary brain-glitch,
and somebody dies.  (I realize that doesn't have to be just a matter of
your line of work.  I also feel sorry for people involved in car wrecks
that kill other people, etc. -- car wrecks that are their fault.  That
doesn't mean that I don't also feel horribly sorry for the victims and
their families and friends.)

This response is too long.  Tushar will say something snide about it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:16:41 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Angola has a stack of teenaged lifers who were
> > lucky enough to have a jury full of bleeding
> > hearts like me.
>
> That's pretty horrible, too.
>
> One of my friends reminded me that this is why some people think
> we are The Great Satan.

Of course it is.  I'm not talking about juveniles necessarily.  I'm not
sure there's always that much difference between somebody seventeen and
somebody twenty-three.  People in many parts of the world consider it
shocking and barbaric that a <developed nation> has the death penalty at
all.  Saying that I agree with them is <un-America>, of course, but I do
agree.  Does my disgreement with the death penalty mean I should be
exiled?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 19:20:35 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:21:18 -0600
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> A mistake was made. They compounded it by trying to fix their bad
error.
> They ended up wasting two and the second one should never have been
done, imo.
>
> Betty

Bad, bad thing all the way through.  Now it sounds as if
the parents didn't understand from the beginning.
So sad.

             - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 19:25:31 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:22:18 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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alyce cresap wrote:

> > >  In theory, only the US Congress can declare war.
> >
> > That theory is called the U.S. Constitution.  The wording is quite
> > unambiguous.
>
> Of course it is. But ways have been found to get around the words, so it
> is no longer a sure thing. That's all I meant.

And let it be known to people like Doris who seem to think these
arguments are all about political parties that this violation of the
Constitution has gone on in both Democratic and Republican
administrations/congresses.  So this isn't a <partisan> thing.  But I do
wonder why the gun-folk who scream and holler about their constitutional
right to bear arms don't seem all that vocal in questioning a
president's violation of that same constitution.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 19:26:27 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Tempura
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:27:07 -0600
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If I have ever cooked tempura stuff in the
past I must have made my own coating.

This weekend I discovered an enormous
new Chinese supply house about 75 miles
away from here and one of the things I
bought was a Thai tempura mix.

Tonight I did it with green and red peppers,
zucchini, fresh mushrooms, carrots, etc.
. . . and I think it was the best thing I have
ever eaten in my life.  Light.  Flavorful.
Delicious.  I am still swimming in delight.

            - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 19:27:37 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:24:32 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-23 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > Sunday, February 23, 2003, 6:28:57 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> > > Give me your (philosophical, if you prefer) take
> > > on the Jesica Santillan clusterfuck.
> >
> > Thank you for bringing this. I have found myself blindingly
> > angry.
>
> At whom and why?  (NB:  I'm not disagreeing that anger is the
> appropriate response.)  Has it been established yet whose fault the
> screwup was -- the organ people or the Duke people?  In addition to
> feeling sorry for her and her family, I also can't help but feel sorry
> for the person responsible for the screwup.  That's the kind of thing
> that makes me know that I made the right decision in not going into a
> line of work that had such risks.  You have a momentary brain-glitch,
> and somebody dies.  (I realize that doesn't have to be just a matter of
> your line of work.  I also feel sorry for people involved in car wrecks
> that kill other people, etc. -- car wrecks that are their fault.  That
> doesn't mean that I don't also feel horribly sorry for the victims and
> their families and friends.)
>
> This response is too long.  Tushar will say something snide about it.

Good thing I didn't read it heh?

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:27:22 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
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02003-02-23 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> >Something tells me the circle of shit is, indeed,
> >significantly different from a lemon squeeze.
> >
> >A "lemon squeeze" sounds like a drink one of Bertie
> >Wooster's innumerable fiancees would have drunk.
>
>        It sounds like a debutante drink.

This thread has gone out of control. The basic point has
been lost, which is that Bertie is not gay. What kind of
vapid theory is it that looks at Bertie and concludes
"gay"? Sheeze ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 19:32:46 2003
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> > This response is too long.  Tushar will say something snide about it.
>
> Good thing I didn't read it heh?

Yes, indeed.

Meanwhile, I'm po'ed at the weather forecast.  Nastiness like sleet and
rain in the coming week, interfering with the parties I'm hosting.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:21:13 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Betty wrote:

>Is the stock still increasing in value? We only bought three so I didn't
>contribute too much.

Yep. And looks very good longterm. Thank you for your help. I eat few
doughnuts, but KK are my favorites. I can't stand Dunkin D.

Bethany

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Tempura
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At 07:27 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Doris Markland wrote:
>If I have ever cooked tempura stuff in the
>past I must have made my own coating.
>
>This weekend I discovered an enormous
>new Chinese supply house about 75 miles
>away from here and one of the things I
>bought was a Thai tempura mix.
>
>Tonight I did it with green and red peppers,
>zucchini, fresh mushrooms, carrots, etc.
>. . . and I think it was the best thing I have
>ever eaten in my life.  Light.  Flavorful.
>Delicious.  I am still swimming in delight.
>
>             - D. M.

Exquisite!

BB

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 20:32:44 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
> Does anyone know what the grounds for Murder One are?

Can't find it on Google, even.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:46:28 -0600
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 7:11:31 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Has it been established yet whose fault the
> screwup was -- the organ people or the Duke people?

Both of them screwed up.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:50:58 -0600
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 7:27:07 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> Tonight I did it with green and red peppers,
> zucchini, fresh mushrooms, carrots, etc.
> . . . and I think it was the best thing I have
> ever eaten in my life.  Light.  Flavorful.
> Delicious.  I am still swimming in delight.

Fresh ginger makes great tempura. Also sweet potatoes and acorn
squash. And okra--it's the only way I really like okra.

Karen

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: report from NYC
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 19:57:36 -0600
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Natalie:

>
> And let it be known to people like Doris who seem to think these
> arguments are all about political parties

EEEEEEEk!

Quite the reverse.  I think you and Alyce think
it's about political parties.

EEEEEk!

             - D. M.

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Tempura
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Karen Kay" <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:50 PM
Subject: Re: Tempura

> Sunday, February 23, 2003, 7:27:07 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> > Tonight I did it with green and red peppers,
> > zucchini, fresh mushrooms, carrots, etc.
> > . . . and I think it was the best thing I have
> > ever eaten in my life.  Light.  Flavorful.
> > Delicious.  I am still swimming in delight.
>
> Fresh ginger makes great tempura. Also sweet potatoes and acorn
> squash. And okra--it's the only way I really like okra.
>
> Karen

Stop . . stop!.  You're killing me! . . .

           - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 20:29:40 2003
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> Natalie:
> > And let it be known to people like Doris who seem to think these
> > arguments are all about political parties
>
> EEEEEEEk!
>
> Quite the reverse.  I think you and Alyce think
> it's about political parties.
>
> EEEEEk!

Weird.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 20:38:01 2003
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Doris Markland wrote:

> > Fresh ginger makes great tempura. Also sweet potatoes and acorn
> > squash. And okra--it's the only way I really like okra.
> >
> > Karen
>
> Stop . . stop!.  You're killing me! . . .

Vegetable tempura is about the only battered/fried food I like -- except
for Mrs. Paul's crab globs, which have a light, pleasant batter -- not
like heavy gunk of the fried-onion or french-fries or fried-pickle ilk.
(Of those last three, I prefer fried pickles, but I can't eat more than
a couple of them without feeling that I'm wallowing in grease city.)  I
do like hush puppies occasionally, though.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 21:09:23 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Tempura
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At 07:27 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Doris Markland wrote:
>If I have ever cooked tempura stuff in the
>past I must have made my own coating.
>
>This weekend I discovered an enormous
>new Chinese supply house about 75 miles
>away from here and one of the things I
>bought was a Thai tempura mix.
>
>Tonight I did it with green and red peppers,
>zucchini, fresh mushrooms, carrots, etc.
>. . . and I think it was the best thing I have
>ever eaten in my life.  Light.  Flavorful.
>Delicious.  I am still swimming in delight.

Was it a dry mix? Did you add beer?

I like tempura but hate frying so I almost
never make it.

-rashmi

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Words from a Republican
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 03:08:33 +0000
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Tushar:

>Sounds like a paranoid girl to me. Anyway, overly general "principles"
>like this are irrelevant to maintaining the prestige and respect the US
>must have in the current stage of history.

Prestige, respect - how is that different from credibility?

-rashmi

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 21:13:59 2003
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Message-ID: <001201c2dbb2$e054a320$6b0332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <BAY2-F188kRnvir5kUh00018962@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: Tempura
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:14:43 -0600
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> At 07:27 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Doris Markland wrote:
> >If I have ever cooked tempura stuff in the
> >past I must have made my own coating.
> >
> >This weekend I discovered an enormous
> >new Chinese supply house about 75 miles
> >away from here and one of the things I
> >bought was a Thai tempura mix.
> >
> >Tonight I did it with green and red peppers,
> >zucchini, fresh mushrooms, carrots, etc.
> >. . . and I think it was the best thing I have
> >ever eaten in my life.  Light.  Flavorful.
> >Delicious.  I am still swimming in delight.
>
> Was it a dry mix? Did you add beer?
>
> I like tempura but hate frying so I almost
> never make it.
>
> -rashmi

It was a dry mix.  I did not add beer.  Should
have thought of that, because I know that works
well and I've done it before.   Anyway, even with
water it was HEAVENLY.

           - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 21:16:34 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 03:13:23 +0000
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bonniev:

>I don't express my opinion on issues but rather
>take a more philosophical stance.

Really? Have yet to see any philosophizing from you on
the subject. I've seen plenty of opinion, tho, that comes
off (to me as) moralizing, preachy and holier-than-thou.

-rashmi


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 21:18:33 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
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Tushar:

>This thread has gone out of control. The basic point has
>been lost, which is that Bertie is not gay. What kind of
>vapid theory is it that looks at Bertie and concludes
>"gay"? Sheeze ...

The same kind that characterizes everything as bobo?

-rashmi


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 21:23:23 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Karen
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 03:20:12 +0000
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Betty wrote:

>   I really don't understand the
>popularity either but every time a new one opens people are lined up.

I can't stand Krispy Kremes. All that grease - yuck.

-rashmi

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 21:32:24 2003
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02003-02-23 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:

>The exact same thing is happening to me that happened during the first
>Bush's Gulf War.  I started out against it.  But the more I talked to
>my rowing partner, with his bleeding heart misdirection and stupid
>argumentation, the more I began to be totally in favor of war.

There's something to be said for being a small stagnant list - I've
little doubt that Alyce and Natalie's pro-peace posts would turn
hordes of people in favor of war.

-rashmi




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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 21:41:23 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 03:38:12 +0000
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> >>Are you saying that you eat two tunafish sandwiches in a row?
>
> >I find the word tunafish extremely unpleasant. What's wrong with plain
>ole
> >tuna sandwiches?

>Betcha you don't like salmonfish or red snapperfish, either.

You got it. I'm okay with jellyfish but last time I was at Monterey
I noticed they'd ditched the fish and were calling them jellies.

-rashmi





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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 21:42:26 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <maynor@ra.msstate.edu>
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I just got this e-mail from a friend in Iowa praising the movie "Chicago."
I wrote him back asking if it was ago if I forwarded it to y'all, and he
said fine.  I hate his all caps, but I found his comments interesting
in spite of that:

>HAVE YOU SEEN "CHICAGO"?  I SAW IT YESTERDAY WITH CHRIS AND RITA.
>MAGNIFICENT.  BEST MUSICAL I'VE SEEN IN YEARS.  REMINDS ME OF "PIPPIN" AND
>"CABARET", THE FORMER OF WHICH I HAVE DIRECTED--SO IT REMINDS ME OF THAT A
>GREAT DEAL.  BUT THE HISTORICAL/POLITICAL IMPLICATIONS ARE MOST DEFINITELY
>LIKE "CABARET".  MAYBE THE THING THAT MOST BLEW ME AWAY WAS THE FACT THAT
>"CHICAGO" IS OVERWHELMINGLY TIMELY.  NEVER HAVE I SEEN A MORE PERFECTLY
>TIMELY WORK.  EVEN THOUGH IT IS SET IN THE TWENTIES, IT SPEAKS WITH
>NIGHTMARISM PROFUNDITY TO THE CURRENT SITUATION.  I THINK WE LIVE IN THE
>MOST TERRIFYING AND DECADENT PERIOD YET IN AMERICAN HISTORY.  THE PARALLELS
>TO THE RISE OF NAZI GERMANY ARE ENOUGH TO SCALD THE STOMACH--A NATION IN
>ECONOMIC DISTRESS, FILLED WITH FEAR, WALLOWING IN SHALLOW PLEASURE, IN LOVE
>WITH VIOLENCE, HATED BY MOST OF THE WORLD, DESPERATELY HUNTING A SCAPEGOAT
>AND THE REAFFIRMATION OF NATIONAL PRIDE, WILLING TO SURRENDER FREEDOM TO
>STRONG CENTRAL AUTHORITY, FEVERISHLY EAGER TO EMBRACE A HEROIC FIGURE
>POSING
>AS A WELL-MEANING LEADER, WILLING TO INVADE FOREIGN SOIL, KILL THEIR PEOPLE
>AND OCCUPY THEIR TERRITORY, AND ON AND ON AND ON. SHADES OF SIGGY KRACAUER.
>
>AS FRANKLIN ROOSEVELT SO WISELY SAID IN 1933:  "WE HAVE NOTHING TO FEAR BUT
>FEAR ITSELF".  WHERE IS HE NOW THAT WE NEED HIM SO MUCH?
>
>AND THE PRESS? "CHICAGO" SCORES THE MOST DIRECT, APT, AND DEVASTATING HIT
>ON
>THE MEDIA THAT I HAVE EVER SEEN.  IT MAKES "NETWORK" SEEM LIKE SKIMMED
>MILK.
>THE AMERICAN MEDIA ARE AMONG THE FOREMOST VILLAINS IN OUR CURRENT CRISIS.
>SENSATIONALIST AND SHALLOW BEYOND ANYTHING I HAVE YET SEEN IN MY LIFE, THEY
>ARE ALMOST TOTALLY WITHOUT MORAL CREDIBILITY.  I SAY "ALMOST" BECAUSE THERE
>ARE STILL SOME--NOT MANY--VIABLE DEBATES GOING ON AMONG THE JOURNALISTS,
>BUT
>IN THE MAIN THE MEDIA ARE PANDERING TO THE WORST IN US ALL--WILLIAM
>RANDOLPH
>HEARST IS STILL ALIVE AND WELL.  THE ROAD TO PERDITION IS PAVED NOT WITH
>GOOD INTENTIONS, OF WHICH THERE ARE FEW THAT ARE GENUINE THESE DAYS, BUT
>WITH THE SLIME AND GREASE OF A SICK PRESS, A HORRIFYING WAR MACHINE, AND
>SANCTIMONIOUS, RIGHT-WING, WOLF-IN-SHEEP'S-CLOTHING RELIGIOUS POLITICIANS.
>ONWARD, CHRISTIAN SOLDIERS!
>
>ALAS, BABYLON. YEATS'S "SECOND COMING" IS CHILLINGLY APROPOS OVER SIXTY
>YEARS AFTER HIS DEATH. THE ROUGH BEAST IS SLOUCHING TOWARD BETHLEHEM.
>

(In asking my permission to forward it, I asked the question I always
ask in such a case -- if so, with or without identity?  I just realized
that he didn't answer that part.  He just said, "Sure, forward it to
anybody you want to."  So I'm thinking that means with identity.  Not
that any of you know him, so it really doesn't matter, but his name is
Bob Aldridge.  He's from Mississippi but has lived in Iowa for many
years now.)

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Message-ID: <000601c2dbb7$b8a64e00$6b0332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <200302240339.h1O3dJYM018983@ra.msstate.edu>
Subject: Re:      "Chicago"
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:49:23 -0600
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> (In asking my permission to forward it, I asked the question I always
> ask in such a case -- if so, with or without identity?  I just
realized
> that he didn't answer that part.  He just said, "Sure, forward it to
> anybody you want to."  So I'm thinking that means with identity.  Not
> that any of you know him, so it really doesn't matter, but his name is
> Bob Aldridge.  He's from Mississippi but has lived in Iowa for many
> years now.)


He's learned so little from Iowa.  Alas.

          - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 21:50:02 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:46:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> little doubt that Alyce and Natalie's pro-peace posts would turn
> hordes of people in favor of war.

Why?  Can you point out some specifics of what you find offensive in our
views, or are you just being gratuitiously insulting tonight?  No hurry
for a reply.  I've got to log off now and am going to be swamped in the
next several days.  Won't have much list time.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 22:19:47 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Sharing pictures
Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:20:30 -0600
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Where are we sharing pictures now . . cheap . . .
no cost?

Picture Trail flicked me off.  Couple of others
have done the same.

              - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 22:22:51 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:19:25 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, February 23, 2003, 10:20:30 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> Where are we sharing pictures now . . cheap . . .
> no cost?

Time to suck up to the Tush Man!

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 22:23:22 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 22:20:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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It was 80 degrees today--and the high tomorrow is half that.

:(

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 22:40:34 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Sharing pictures
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> Sunday, February 23, 2003, 10:20:30 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> > Where are we sharing pictures now . . cheap . . .
> > no cost?
>
> Time to suck up to the Tush Man!
>
> Karen

Where be the Tush Man posting pics?

            - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:21:13 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:19:02 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Tushar Samant wrote:
>>
>>  I guess this is one degree better than being for the war
>>  out of sexual pique against France ...
>
>I have seen on the news that various restaurants in America's heartland
>have renamed French Fries "Freedom Fries." They are eschewing French
>wines, Dijon mustard, and anything else that smacks of Frenchness.
>Except for aujus (one word). You know, it comes with prime rib of beef
>in a little paper cup.

Yes, Ben was telling me about that. The article he read mentioned
that "hot dogs" got their name because people didn't want to call
them frankfurters -- so there is precedent.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:21:16 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:17:02 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: when worlds collide
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Saturday, 1p-10p: a tantra puja, exchanging intense erotic intimate
energy with a roomful of strangers (although they didn't seem like
strangers for long), learning to breathe and connect into ecstasy.

Sunday, 3p-7p: An "ageplay party" -- an event to which people come in
role as either "kids" or "adults," dressed and behaving
appropriately... and the sudden realization that "I'm A Little
Teapot" is actually a tantric parable:

"When I get all steamed up
Hear me shout
Just tip me over
and pour me out."

My head hurts. I'm going to eat ice cream and go to bed.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:23:25 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:21:48 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
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>In a message dated 02/22/2003 3:49:47 PM Central Standard Time,
>natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:
>
><<
>Are you saying that you eat two tunafish sandwiches in a row?
>
>>>
>
>I do.  I especially like to make tuna melts.

I think I may have mentioned it here before, but a meal I invented,
and like, is the green bean tuna melt: you heat up a bowl of
french-cut (oops, sorry, I meant julienned <g>) green beans, top them
with some tuna straight from the can, drizzle some olive oil and
vinegar over it, grate cheese on top, then zap the whole thing for a
few seconds until the cheese melts. It sounds a bit weird, but it's
actually very tasty... and perfect if you're doing high-protein
low-carb eating.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:23:32 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: frozen dinner
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>About to eat a Swanson dinner that looks pretty good. Not sure how many
>ounces, but it is stuffed turkey with mashed potatoes and gravy and
>French-style green beans. A nice touch is the fact that there is red
>pimiento scattered on the beans. A colorful and attractive plateful. The
>timer is timing.

Jay likes those a lot. For someone who's trying to gain weight, I'd
expect that they'd be a very good idea.

Another astonishingly high calorie frozen meal, if you like them:
Marie Callender's pot pies.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 00:24:27 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] frozen dinner
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In a message dated 02/23/2003 11:22:11 PM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
Another astonishingly high calorie frozen meal, if you like them:
Marie Callender's pot pies.


>>
I wonder if Mom would like them; the doctors want her to eat at
least 1,200 calories a day.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:29:07 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:27:33 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>02003-02-22 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
>>  >> Maybe that's where "100 Ways to Get Freshmen Interested In Ethics"
>>  >> should go ...
>>  >
>>  >Rings no bells. Must be something I missed. I tend to filter out
>>  >things containing "100 ways" or "freshmen" or "ethics."
>>  >    mem
>>
>>  There is nothing like that.  Tushar is just expressing his disgust with my
>>  neutral tone of voice when answering questions with ethical overtones.  He
>>  seems to find it offensive, or at least boring, that I don't express my
>>  opinion on issues but rather take a more philosophical stance.
>
>It's not a philosophical stance, it's the tedious academic trick of
>introducing a microscopic bit of "provocation" in a boring subject.
>Gotta have a hook ... just like the stupid habit of putting sex in
>the title of a book.

Example? (Besides sex books, of course.)

Someone on my small publishers' list has been bemoaning the fact that
he let the author talk him into the title "Deja Vu and the Phone Sex
Queen" for a novel. Apparently reviewers have been refusing to look
at the book because it has sex in the title.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:32:23 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:30:23 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>  >This is the play-it-safe immigrant in a nutshell. I THINK
>>this exactly what will happen but that doesn't mean I am
>>for it.
>
>Whatever. Go find some imaginary bobos.

I had a Tushar Moment today: driving through "downtown" Bolinas, a
sign: Bobo Bike & Surf Shop.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:35:50 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 23:32:48 -0600
From: Sylvia Edwards <s.words@pop.mindspring.com>
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Organization: S.words
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> 02003-02-23 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
>
> >The exact same thing is happening to me that happened during the first
> >Bush's Gulf War.  I started out against it.  But the more I talked to
> >my rowing partner, with his bleeding heart misdirection and stupid
> >argumentation, the more I began to be totally in favor of war.
>
> There's something to be said for being a small stagnant list - I've
> little doubt that Alyce and Natalie's pro-peace posts would turn
> hordes of people in favor of war.

I've been contemplating a similar thought.  What could be the backlash
to all the protests?
Would some consider the protesters as aiding and abetting Saddam and Osama?


Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:37:34 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:34:45 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sniffering
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>Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
>>  I've never tried wet Swiffers, but the dry ones are magic for dusting.  We
>>  buy box of refills, cut them into smaller pieces and use them as dustcloths.
>
>I got a wet one because of muddy pawprints but might like having a dry
>one also -- for clumps of doghair.

I bought a pet-hair-removing sponge at Bed Bath & Beyond the other
day -- a square firm sponge that somehow stays slightly moist all the
time. It works extremely well.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:42:53 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:38:29 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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>On Sun, 23 Feb 2003, Betty wrote:
>
>>And then we stopped by Krispy Kreme on the way home . They just opened a
>>new one in Pinole.  Larry had never had one of their doughnuts.  Didn't
>  >someone here buy their stock?
>
>moi. I own some.

Fetish Diva Midori, who is probably the world's best-known BDSM
educator at this point (and the author of one Greenery book), is a
Krispy Kreme addict. Check this out:
http://www.mistresskrispykreme.com .

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:43:15 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:39:28 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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>  > And then we stopped by Krispy Kreme on the way home . They just opened a
>>  new one in Pinole.  Larry had never had one of their doughnuts.  Didn't
>  > someone here buy their stock?
>
>         Yes, thank you for contributing to the Chapman Family bottom
>line.  We don't eat them, however; Kevin and I think they
>taste gross.  I don't think I patronize any of the companies
>we own stock in except SBC -- and that stock isn't worth
>anything.

I looove the lemon ones. The other ones I have to be in a really
pigout mood to enjoy. (That's not too rare, unfortunately.)

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Feb 23 23:45:51 2003
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Date: Sun, 23 Feb 2003 21:41:50 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tempura
In-reply-to: <200302231723.18N7kY5n73NZFlr0@killdeer>
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>If I have ever cooked tempura stuff in the
>past I must have made my own coating.
>
>This weekend I discovered an enormous
>new Chinese supply house about 75 miles
>away from here and one of the things I
>bought was a Thai tempura mix.
>
>Tonight I did it with green and red peppers,
>zucchini, fresh mushrooms, carrots, etc.
>. . . and I think it was the best thing I have
>ever eaten in my life.  Light.  Flavorful.
>Delicious.  I am still swimming in delight.

What was the brand name?

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 03:20:35 EST
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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In a message dated 2/23/2003 6:22:58 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<  But I do
wonder why the gun-folk who scream and holler about their constitutional
right to bear arms don't seem all that vocal in questioning a
president's violation of that same constitution. >>

You and me both. Theo

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From: "Espen S. Ore" <espen@espenore.tk>
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:28:45 +0100
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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10:48 20.02.2003 -0500 skrev Alec D. Plotkin:
>>This reminds me of a WLM at lunch today when some people were talking
>>about how shrimp in other parts of the country often tastes bland
>>because people apparently don't know how to cook it -- as in what you
>>put in with it when cooking it.  That led to a brief discussion about
>>bland food, with Pennsylvania and Indiana named as the blandest food
>>places the participants in this conversation had ever lived.
>>
>>--
>> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>>
>
>Indiana, I might believe. Pennsylvania is full of taste.

The best shrimp is the deep sea shrimp boiled in sea water on the small shrimp trawlers while they are sailing in to the harbour to sell the fresh catch. There are shrimp boats in the Oslo harbour, but none in Bergen where the shrimp are coming in on trucks from further up along the coast. That was something I really missed in my 18 years of exile.

Espen

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:44:59 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: Sharing pictures
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Doris Markland:
= Where are we sharing pictures now . . cheap . . .
= no cost?
=
= Picture Trail flicked me off.  Couple of others
= have done the same.
=
=               - D. M.

Why don't you set up your personal web page at ncfcomm.com?
You've only got 10 meg, but that's 200 50K pictures.  It's really
not that hard at all.

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20:00 20.02.2003 -0800 skrev Peter Kaminski:
>Sorry to have a language question: what's the opposite of "Pax"
>Americana?  Bellum, belli, or bello Americana?

Bellum americanum? (or with another meaning, bellum americani?)

Espen

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:23:40 +0100
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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22:13 20.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Thursday, February 20, 2003, 7:34:45 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
>>> No, they're too salty is what they are.
>>>
>>> lisa
>
>> Nonsense! Ikura (salmon roe) is one of my favorite kinds of sushi.
>
><barf>

And fresh fish eggs from trout, eaten as an appetizer while the fish is fried, and with just a little lemon and salt is delicious!

Espen - fish egg lover

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22:05 20.02.2003 -0800 skrev Peter Kaminski:
>Karen Kay writes,
>
>>I think what you want is a nominative case noun.
>
>If I read it correctly, then it's "belli":
><http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/classics/latin/latin4.htm>.

Which would be genitive singular.

Bellum is a neuter noun, second declination. Bello is dative or ablative sg. Bellum can be both nominative and accusative since neuters have the same forms for those cases.

Espen

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00:25 21.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:05:55 AM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
>> Karen Kay writes,
>
>>>I think what you want is a nominative case noun.
>
>> If I read it correctly, then it's "belli":
>> <http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/classics/latin/latin4.htm>.
>
>Bellum. "Bellum, war, is declined as follows: bellum, belli,
>bello, bellum, bello"  Nominative, genitive, dative, accusative,
>uhhhhh... I forget.
>
>What I was looking for, I finally found when I could get to the
>web again: http://www.nd.edu/~archives/latgramm.htm .
>
>Ann Borkin or Espen know best, but I think Bello Americana would
>be War of America the same Pax Americana would be Peace of
>America.

No - Pax americana is feminine nominative, so this should be bellum amnericanum (americanus is used as an adjective and has to follow the noun, in this case a neuter in nominative (or could be accusative, form-wise). But it could of course also be bellum amercanorum (meaning "The Americans' war").

Espen

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00:33 21.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:25:57 AM, Karen Kay wrote:
>> Friday, February 21, 2003, 12:05:55 AM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
>>> Karen Kay writes,
>
>>>>I think what you want is a nominative case noun.
>
>>> If I read it correctly, then it's "belli":
>>> <http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/classics/latin/latin4.htm>.
>
>> Bellum. "Bellum, war, is declined as follows: bellum, belli,
>> bello, bellum, bello"  Nominative, genitive, dative, accusative,
>> uhhhhh... I forget.
>
>My guess is vocative.

Vocative doesn't really go with neuter nouns.

Espen

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11:30 24.02.2003 +0100 skrev Espen Ore:
>22:05 20.02.2003 -0800 skrev Peter Kaminski:
>>Karen Kay writes,
>>
>>>I think what you want is a nominative case noun.
>>
>>If I read it correctly, then it's "belli":
>><http://www.du.edu/~jcalvert/classics/latin/latin4.htm>.
>
>Which would be genitive singular.
>
>Bellum is a neuter noun, second declination. Bello is dative or ablative

Declension. It is still Monday morning.

Espen

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06:57 21.02.2003 -0800 skrev Peter Kaminski:
>Karen Kay writes,
>
>>I think Bello Americana would be War of America the same Pax Americana
>>would be Peace of America.
>
>Caesar's Gallic War is called "de bello Gallico," so that sounds right.

That is beause "de" takes ablative (or shoot me if it takes dative - those have the same form with "bellum").

Espen

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 05:39:18 2003
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Doris Markland wrote:

> He's learned so little from Iowa.  Alas.

Like what?  <Patriotism> means keeping your mouth shut and nodding
approval to everything your current administration does/says?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 05:41:34 2003
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> Yes, Ben was telling me about that. The article he read mentioned
> that "hot dogs" got their name because people didn't want to call
> them frankfurters -- so there is precedent.

There's been debate on the origin of the term "hot dog."  I've never
paid attention to it and can't remember now what the consensus among
etymologists is, if there is indeed a consensus.  But I'm not convinced
that the article Ben read is correct on that point.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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18:10 21.02.2003 -0600 skrev Natalie Maynor:
>Karen Kay wrote:
>
>> Thank you! I forgot all about ablative!!
>>
>> Jeeze. I recognize the name, but I don't remember what it means
>> any more.
>
>I've forgotten almost everything about Latin, but ablative in PIE was
>(reconstructurally speaking, of course) movement away from a source.

Which is why it is called ablative.

Espen

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Sylvia Edwards wrote:

> I've been contemplating a similar thought.  What could be the backlash
> to all the protests?
> Would some consider the protesters as aiding and abetting Saddam and Osama?

Yes, Bonnie considers that.  But, as far as I can tell, the war plans
aren't being based on a popular vote.  I'm also not sure why you threw
in Osama above.  Although there may be some such protesters somewhere,
I'm not aware of any who think it wrong to try to find and zap bin Laden
since it's been established quite clearly, afaik, that he was
responsible for attacking this country.  Most people I know of believe
that it's appropriate to fight back when attacked (though in this case
quite difficult since we weren't attacked by a country).  So, as I said,
I don't quite get your point about OBL in relation to peace
marches/protests.  The ones I've been involved in are about attacking a
country that has not attacked us or even threatened to attack us.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 05:54:14 2003
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Espen Ore wrote:

> Vocative doesn't really go with neuter nouns.

I can see how it wouldn't in natural gender, but why wouldn't it in
grammatical gender?  (I can't remember Latin genders.  Did it include
grammatical gender in the sense of no relation between meaning and
gender, or was it sort of semi-natural, like its descendants -- as in a
word for "woman" would automatically be feminine?)  In a language like
OE, some of the words for people were neuter.  Vocative as a separate
case had died out by OE, of course -- had merged with nominative.  But
if it had still existed as a separate case -- i.e., with its own
inflections, I would assume they would be used for one of these neuter
people words if in a vocative context.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 05:55:41 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 05:52:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Espen Ore wrote:

> >I've forgotten almost everything about Latin, but ablative in PIE was
> >(reconstructurally speaking, of course) movement away from a source.
>
> Which is why it is called ablative.

Yes.  I'm sometimes surprised, however, that many of today's students
don't seem to have a sense of what things like "ab" mean.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 06:01:05 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 06:57:00 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>Really? Have yet to see any philosophizing from you on
>the subject. I've seen plenty of opinion, tho, that comes
>off (to me as) moralizing, preachy and holier-than-thou.
>-rashmi

Well, that's a missperception on your part.   It appears that when I try to
answer questions in a factual manner, I come off as expressing a preachy
opinion, when that's not at all what I'm doing.   Natalie and Theo
sometimes seem to be asking for actual facts because they totally don't
understand something.  I try to answer and you and Tushar think I'm
preaching.  So be it.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 06:05:57 2003
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> > that any of you know him, so it really doesn't matter, but his name is
> > Bob Aldridge.  He's from Mississippi but has lived in Iowa for many
> > years now.)
>
>He's learned so little from Iowa.  Alas.
>           - D. M.

He certainly learned how to spoil a fun movie by reading into it all kinds
of things that weren't there.


    --bonniev

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05:50 24.02.2003 -0600 skrev Natalie Maynor:
>Espen Ore wrote:
>
>> Vocative doesn't really go with neuter nouns.
>
>I can see how it wouldn't in natural gender, but why wouldn't it in
>grammatical gender?  (I can't remember Latin genders.  Did it include

Yes, you are right. What I meant was that the Latin neuters don't have vocative forms different from nom/acc. (And feminines also have the same nom/voc form, although I believe that there may be some particular cases with masculine words following a "feminine" declension - or is that only in Greek - my memory isn't that good any more)

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 06:08:50 2003
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>>Gotta have a hook ... just like the stupid habit of putting sex in
>>the title of a book.
>
>Example? (Besides sex books, of course.)
>Janet

The book that Bayla just published about the history of aircraft.


    --bonniev

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22:37 21.02.2003 -0500 skrev alyce cresap:
>"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:
>>  Others may be interested in this excerpt from the current
>> State Department consular information sheet on Morocco:
>
>Yes, I am interested, because my life is not charmed. Nor was I planning
>to go to Morocco, of course.
>
>Do you have one of these sheets for Namibia?

Just out of curiosity: do you have one for Norway? Greece?

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 07:00:17 2003
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13:05 24.02.2003 +0100 skrev Espen Ore:
>22:37 21.02.2003 -0500 skrev alyce cresap:
>>"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:
>>>  Others may be interested in this excerpt from the current
>>> State Department consular information sheet on Morocco:
>>
>>Yes, I am interested, because my life is not charmed. Nor was I
>planning
>>to go to Morocco, of course.
>>
>>Do you have one of these sheets for Namibia?
>
>Just out of curiosity: do you have one for Norway? Greece?

Ah: I found them:

"Visitors to Greece must be prepared to drive defensively. Heavy traffic and poor highways pose hazards, especially at night. "

Espen

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:05:03 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
> I wonder if Mom would like them; the doctors want her to eat at
> least 1,200 calories a day.

Ensure Plus = 350 calories. Cashews and peanuts have many calories,
many, many. Try to get her to eat little bits of something every couple
of hours. That way it is easier to get up to 1200 than just doing three
meals.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:08:32 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>
> Would some consider the protesters as aiding and abetting Saddam and Osama?

Oh sure, some would. I still don't know why the two men are mentioned in
the same breath. War against terrorism = Osama. I have not protested
that.

alyce

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] frozen dinner
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In a message dated 02/24/2003 7:08:46 AM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Ensure Plus = 350 calories.
>>

Also many dollars.  We were going to go to WalMart and get its
version today, but we're snowed in.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:41:28 -0600
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>>
>
>Indiana, I might believe. Pennsylvania is full of taste.

Then there's always Indiana, Pennsylvania.

AS

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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
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Subject: How 'bout those Grammys?
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A sweep for Norah Jones. She'll either go up or down from here.

AS

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] frozen dinner
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In a message dated 02/24/2003 7:08:46 AM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Cashews and peanuts have many calories,
many, many. Try to get her to eat little bits of something every couple
of hours. That way it is easier to get up to 1200 than just doing three
meals.


>>

I've been trying to get her to eat a lot, but she's never been one to do
that.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 07:44:32 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:37:51 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>
> Also many dollars.  We were going to go to WalMart and get its
> version today, but we're snowed in.

Riley's mother got Ensure Plus for me at Walmart and it was $7.99 for a
six-pack. Does Walmart have its own store brand as well for less?

alyce

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:39:51 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Amy Burns Short wrote:
>
> A sweep for Norah Jones. She'll either go up or down from here.

How could she go further up?
I know nothing of music and never heard of half of the people. (I do
know SPringsteen.) But generally speaking, I'd like it better if just a
few people didn't win all the awards. I'd like them spread out more...it
would be more interesting.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:41:38 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> I've been trying to get her to eat a lot, but she's never been one to do
> that.

I definitely understand. That is why I am suggesting just a bite or two
of something frequently. One cracker, one cookie, a little bit of juice.
It all helps. It is too hard to get all the calories in large meals.
Trust me.

alyce

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In a message dated 02/24/2003 7:41:48 AM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Riley's mother got Ensure Plus for me at Walmart and it was $7.99 for a
six-pack. Does Walmart have its own store brand as well for less?


>>

Yes, the Equate brand; I don't know how much it is, but I know it will be
less.  Also, the next time I go to the mall, I'm going to look at GNC to
see if I can get a body-building powder to mix with milk.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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12:59 23.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Sunday, February 23, 2003, 9:55:13 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>> Karen Kay wrote:
>>> > << Saturday, February 22, 2003, 9:44:42 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
>>> >> Wouldn't we actually gain in prestige if we marched the troops
>>> >> home without firing a shot?
>> ....
>>> That doesn't seem to be the way it works. Can you name any other
>>> country who gained prestige from such a situation?
>
>> Can you name any other country who has lost prestige by doing it?
>
>No, But I can think of lots of people and countried who have
>gained prestige by fighting. We don't remember Hannibal because
>he didn't use the elephants, for example.

And we don't remember him because he won his war.

Espen

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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 07:55:07 -0600
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Alyce:

Amy Burns Short wrote:
>
> A sweep for Norah Jones. She'll either go up or down from here.


>How could she go further up?

In terms of amount of production and/or quality of production of her work.

But there I go being "aesthetic" again.

AS

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
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At 03:38 AM 2/24/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:

>You got it. I'm okay with jellyfish but last time I was at Monterey
>I noticed they'd ditched the fish and were calling them jellies.

Actually, "jellies" may be a more apt descriptor.

cwv

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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 03:20 AM 2/24/2003 -0500, theo wrote:
>In a message dated 2/23/2003 6:22:58 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:
>
><<  But I do
>wonder why the gun-folk who scream and holler about their constitutional
>right to bear arms don't seem all that vocal in questioning a
>president's violation of that same constitution. >>
>
>You and me both.

I think that there is a fairly simple explanation. Most of the extreme
gun-folk have never read the Constitution beyond Amendment 2 (and many of
them are only happy with Amendment 1 when people are saying nice things
about Amendment 2).  Moreover, the Dubya Gang has gone to some pains to
reassure gun-folk that "their" rights are safe.  Yeah.  Sure.  Let there be
another major terrorist attack, made with firearms obtained in this
country, and we'll see how far those promises go.

cwv

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: acadiafest
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=
= Ah: I found them:
=
= "Visitors to Greece must be prepared to drive defensively. Heavy traffic and poor highways pose hazards, especially at night. "
=
= Espen

Yeah, the Greek have a different concept of lane.

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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alyce cresap:
= Amy Burns Short wrote:
= >
= > A sweep for Norah Jones. She'll either go up or down from here.
=
= How could she go further up?

That's basically what she said herself when I heard her on the
radio this morning.  I don't recognize her name, but I probably
do recognize some of her music.

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In a message dated 02/24/2003 7:45:37 AM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
I definitely understand. That is why I am suggesting just a bite or two
of something frequently. One cracker, one cookie, a little bit of juice.
It all helps. It is too hard to get all the calories in large meals.
Trust me.


>>

Yeah, I've been trying to get her to eat more, a little at a time.
That's one reason I quit Sears, so that I can be here in the
evenings.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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At 10:01 AM 2/22/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>alyce cresap wrote:
>
>>Rita Chapman wrote:
>>
>>>        That's what the piece of paper says.  Maybe it is because
>>>he's looking at my kidneys.
>>
>>I suppose. I know that the dye I get is to increase the contrast of the
>>picture. It makes you feel very hot and like you're wetting your pants,
>>but you're not. I don't know anything about drinking stuff.
>
>        This sounds unpleasant.
>
>
>
>
>--
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>http://www.etext.org/~rita
>

Contrast is not horrible. The only issue is if you are allergic to shellfish.


alec



------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu

"Peace cannot be kept by force.  It can only be achieved by understanding"
- Albert Einstein

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 08:33:18 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:29:27 -0500
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Subject: Re: My weather whine
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We've also been having those 40 degree shifts in temperature - for us, however, the
range is 0 to 40.

a little perspective for your whine

BrP


> It was 80 degrees today--and the high tomorrow is half that.
>
> :(
>
> Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 08:35:20 2003
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I reveal my mutancy in the area of popular music by admitting that I have no idea who
Norah Jones is (beyond the fact that she won 8 Grammys last night).

 BrP



> A sweep for Norah Jones. She'll either go up or down from here.
>
> AS

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:29:46 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> I reveal my mutancy in the area of popular music by admitting that I have no idea who
> Norah Jones is (beyond the fact that she won 8 Grammys last night).
>
I know now, but I did not before this morning.

alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 08:37:50 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:34:41 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 8:29:27 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> We've also been having those 40 degree shifts in temperature - for us, however, the
> range is 0 to 40.

> a little perspective for your whine

40 degree temperature shifts suck no matter what the temps.

I feel your pain, ET!

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 08:56:54 2003
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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The Life of David Gale
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>Great film. I enjoyed it.


>AS


>Thank you so much for reporting this.


>This is the movie that my grandson was
an extra in.  We are waiting to see if he survived
or if he ended up on the cutting room floor.


>He lives in Huntsville, where the movie was
filmed.  In fact, after taking part in it (where
he was a stand-in for Kevin Spacey and also
an extra in the mob scenes, etc.) he applied
and went to work for the Federal Penitentiary
there.


>The movie isn't here yet, but after I see it I'll
tell you if I saw him.


>            - D. M.

Ah, splendid -- I now remember you'd mentioned that. What the film may have
lacked in <connectivity> was compensated for, in my estimation, by many
great entertaining "moments" and superb acting.

AS

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:00:37 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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alyce cresap:
= "Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
= >
= > I reveal my mutancy in the area of popular music by admitting that I have no idea who
= > Norah Jones is (beyond the fact that she won 8 Grammys last night).
= >
= I know now, but I did not before this morning.
=

I know I'd heard of her before because I'd heard the bit of
trivia that she's Ravi Shankar's daughter somewhere before.

She's going to be on Letterman Tuesday night.  There.  Nice,
easy, accessable.  You can all find out how she sounds if you
wish.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 09:09:25 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:05:54 -0500
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> alyce cresap:
> = "Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
> = >
> = > I reveal my mutancy in the area of popular music by admitting that I have no idea who
> = > Norah Jones is (beyond the fact that she won 8 Grammys last night).
> = >
> = I know now, but I did not before this morning.
> =
>
> I know I'd heard of her before because I'd heard the bit of
> trivia that she's Ravi Shankar's daughter somewhere before.


Oh cool!  I saw him in concert several times.  He and Alla Rakha had a special kind of communication onstage that was always as interesting to me as the music itself.

>
> She's going to be on Letterman Tuesday night.  There.  Nice,
> easy, accessable.  You can all find out how she sounds if you
> wish.

It's a date.


BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 09:09:46 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:06:37 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I'm finishing up the second conflict resolution module, so I
asked my sister to test one of the exercises with her family.

When we were talking about it afterwards on the phone, she
mentioned that both her sons had been through conflict resolution
training in fifth grade. Is this normal? For those of you who
have children, have your kids done this?

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 09:12:25 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:09:03 -0500
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> I'm finishing up the second conflict resolution module, so I
> asked my sister to test one of the exercises with her family.
>
> When we were talking about it afterwards on the phone, she
> mentioned that both her sons had been through conflict resolution
> training in fifth grade. Is this normal? For those of you who
> have children, have your kids done this?
>
> Karen

Only at home

:-)


BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 09:13:35 2003
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Organization: Mesa Community College
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:

> Give me your (philosophical, if you prefer) take
> on the Jesica Santillan clusterfuck.

    I've got five bucks that says they can say "lawsuit" in English.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/michelle/malkin.html

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 09:17:36 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:14:25 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 9:09:03 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

>> I'm finishing up the second conflict resolution module, so I
>> asked my sister to test one of the exercises with her family.
>>
>> When we were talking about it afterwards on the phone, she
>> mentioned that both her sons had been through conflict resolution
>> training in fifth grade. Is this normal? For those of you who
>> have children, have your kids done this?
>>
>> Karen

> Only at home

> :-)

Hey, both of her kids ended up becoming Playground Mediators!

Karen

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Kween Krispy Kreme:
> Yep. And looks very good longterm.

They have opened a store, of all places, about
one hundred yards from Cafe Du Monde.

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 09:51:38 2003
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espen:
> And fresh fish eggs from trout, eaten as an appetizer
> while the fish is fried

Woo woo!  Just like when the smelt run in Lake
Michigan.  A seine, a cooler of beer, a paint
can full of hot fat, and thou besides me.

Man, was that disgusting.

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:57:02 -0600
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Saddam and Osama = enemies ...

Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>
> > I've been contemplating a similar thought.  What could be the backlash
> > to all the protests?
> > Would some consider the protesters as aiding and abetting Saddam and Osama?
>
> Yes, Bonnie considers that.  But, as far as I can tell, the war plans
> aren't being based on a popular vote.  I'm also not sure why you threw
> in Osama above.  Although there may be some such protesters somewhere,
> I'm not aware of any who think it wrong to try to find and zap bin Laden
> since it's been established quite clearly, afaik, that he was
> responsible for attacking this country.  Most people I know of believe
> that it's appropriate to fight back when attacked (though in this case
> quite difficult since we weren't attacked by a country).  So, as I said,
> I don't quite get your point about OBL in relation to peace
> marches/protests.  The ones I've been involved in are about attacking a
> country that has not attacked us or even threatened to attack us.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

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09:48 24.02.2003 -0600 skrev C.Q. Featherstonehaugh:
>espen:
>> And fresh fish eggs from trout, eaten as an appetizer
>> while the fish is fried
>
>Woo woo!  Just like when the smelt run in Lake
>Michigan.  A seine, a cooler of beer, a paint
>can full of hot fat, and thou besides me.
>
>Man, was that disgusting.

I was more thinking about up near:

http://home.no.net/espenore/espens/raudh1.jpg

and the fish is fried in a frying pan (or do I mean skillet?)

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 10:06:36 2003
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well, bonnie, that was enlightening:
>Bad, bad medicine.   Bad, bad ethical decision.

I got a dirty down addiction, it doesn't leave a track
I got a jones for your affection like a monkey on my back.


Damn.  Wearing that mullet wig the other weekend
seems to have had some effect on me.

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 10:07:45 2003
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karen:
>conflict resolution training in fifth grade.

We called it boxing or judo lessons.

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

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The Old Man and the Sea:
> I was more thinking about up near:
> http://home.no.net/espenore/espens/raudh1.jpg

I have never been there, but I hope you won't mind
me grabbing this and using it as a Recovered Memory
to take the place of the smelt run.

> and the fish is fried in a frying pan (or do I mean skillet?)

Well, smelt has to be cooked in its own special way.

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

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From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
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10:07 24.02.2003 -0600 skrev C.Q. Featherstonehaugh:
>The Old Man and the Sea:
>> I was more thinking about up near:
>> http://home.no.net/espenore/espens/raudh1.jpg
>
>I have never been there, but I hope you won't mind
>me grabbing this and using it as a Recovered Memory
>to take the place of the smelt run.

Feel free - at times one can also see herds of a thousand or more wild reindeer in that area (Hardangervidda - central Norway).

Espen

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Message-ID: <002e01c2dc20$c9eb4b20$6b0332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <003801c2dbbc$11102300$6b0332d1@0018079268> 
            <20030224104459.A31011@yoccoz.multinix.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: Sharing pictures
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:21:30 -0600
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> Doris Markland:
> = Where are we sharing pictures now . . cheap . . .
> = no cost?
> =
> = Picture Trail flicked me off.  Couple of others
> = have done the same.
> =
> =               - D. M.
>
> Why don't you set up your personal web page at ncfcomm.com?
> You've only got 10 meg, but that's 200 50K pictures.  It's really
> not that hard at all.

Thank you.  I'll look into it.  Had forgotten
it was available.

                        - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:24:02 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Ziperovich <sharon@idiom.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, bonniev wrote:

> >>Gotta have a hook ... just like the stupid habit of putting sex in
> >>the title of a book.
> >
> >Example? (Besides sex books, of course.)
> >Janet
>
> The book that Bayla just published about the history of aircraft.
>
>
>     --bonniev

Does "Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan count?  I felt that there was at
least a reference to sex, even if the sex is had by plants while the
desire is human.

Sharon

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 08:36:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Ziperovich <sharon@idiom.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
In-Reply-To: <605448814.20030224090637@WordWrite.com>
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On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

> I'm finishing up the second conflict resolution module, so I
> asked my sister to test one of the exercises with her family.
>
> When we were talking about it afterwards on the phone, she
> mentioned that both her sons had been through conflict resolution
> training in fifth grade. Is this normal? For those of you who
> have children, have your kids done this?
>
> Karen

Not formally, no.  But the elementary school that both of my sons attended
stresses teaching kids how to work out conflict by themselves.  They're
taught a routine to go through when they have problems with other kids so
they can try to work problems out themselves before they call a teacher
for help.

And once a week (or once a day?) my son's mixed 4th and 5th grade class
has "EQ" time when they "check in" with each other and have a chance to
deal with any emotional issues that have come up between classmates.

Sharon

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 10:59:28 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Sharing pictures
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:59:58 -0600
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> > Why don't you set up your personal web page at ncfcomm.com?
> > You've only got 10 meg, but that's 200 50K pictures.  It's really
> > not that hard at all.
>
> Thank you.  I'll look into it.  Had forgotten
> it was available.
>
>                         - D. M.

Just looked into.  It's available, but you've got to
set up your own.  Yes, it is that hard.  I read the
pages of stuff offered to help you . . . and it is
no help at all.  Didn't even understand what they
were talking about.

                         - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 11:18:57 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:11:55 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

 For those of you who
> have children, have your kids done this?

No. What conflicts?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 11:21:11 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:18:02 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 11:11:55 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>  For those of you who
>> have children, have your kids done this?

> No. What conflicts?

Everyone's life has conflicts, Alyce. Even yours. Especially
schoolkids.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 11:31:54 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:24:46 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>
> Saddam and Osama = enemies ...
>
But only Osama has attacked us. I do not oppose fighting Osama.

alyce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 11:32:05 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:28:11 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: "Chicago"
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>
>  >He's learned so little from Iowa.  Alas.
>>            - D. M.
>
>He certainly learned how to spoil a fun movie by reading into it all kinds
>of things that weren't there.

You *didn't* see it as being about a decadent culture whose values
are being created by cynical media? My, I wonder what you thought of
"Cabaret."

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:29:15 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>  >>Gotta have a hook ... just like the stupid habit of putting sex in
>>>the title of a book.
>>
>>Example? (Besides sex books, of course.)
>  >Janet
>
>The book that Bayla just published about the history of aircraft.

Ah, a good point. She sent me a press release about it, but I forget
the title -- I liked it, though.

But I'll bet the title costs her a few reviews and probably some shelf space.

Janet

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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References: <200302231723.18N7kY5n73NZFlr0@killdeer> 
            <a05200f17ba7f61112c0f@[67.118.125.98]>
Subject: Re:      Re: Tempura
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:33:35 -0600
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> >Tonight I did it with green and red peppers,
> >zucchini, fresh mushrooms, carrots, etc.
> >. . . and I think it was the best thing I have
> >ever eaten in my life.  Light.  Flavorful.
> >Delicious.  I am still swimming in delight.
>
> What was the brand name?
>
> Janet

Says it's packed for ANHING CORP
by Caravelle in Los Angeles.  I meant to
say Korean, not Thai.  It's just called
Tempura Batter Mix.

                   - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:31:29 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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>I reveal my mutancy in the area of popular music by admitting that I
>have no idea who
>Norah Jones is (beyond the fact that she won 8 Grammys last night).

We talked about her here a few months ago, I think. She had one
pretty good song that got hideously overplayed on the radio -- I
liked it a lot at first but got awfully sick of hearing it. I haven't
heard her other work.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 11:41:12 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:37:42 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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>When we were talking about it afterwards on the phone, she
>mentioned that both her sons had been through conflict resolution
>training in fifth grade. Is this normal? For those of you who
>have children, have your kids done this?

I've read that many school districts have instituted it. I think it's
an excellent idea -- there's not much point teaching kids to fasten
their seatbelts and wear their condoms if they're just going to shoot
one another.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:34:05 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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Karen Kay wrote
> Everyone's life has conflicts, Alyce. Even yours. Especially
> schoolkids.

I think that conflict resolution came after my time. Somehow we managed.

alyce

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> >The book that Bayla just published about the history of aircraft.
>
> Ah, a good point. She sent me a press release about it, but I forget
> the title -- I liked it, though.
>
Sex with the Gods, I think.

alyce
> But I'll bet the title costs her a few reviews and probably some shelf space.
>
> Janet


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 11:49:38 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 09:47:52 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tempura
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>  > >Tonight I did it with green and red peppers,
>>  >zucchini, fresh mushrooms, carrots, etc.
>>  >. . . and I think it was the best thing I have
>>  >ever eaten in my life.  Light.  Flavorful.
>>  >Delicious.  I am still swimming in delight.
>>
>>  What was the brand name?
>>
>>  Janet
>
>Says it's packed for ANHING CORP
>by Caravelle in Los Angeles.  I meant to
>say Korean, not Thai.  It's just called
>Tempura Batter Mix.

Thanks, I'll look for it. It should be pretty easy to find around here.

Janet
a sucker for sweet potato tempura

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 11:52:18 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:48:54 -0500
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My favorite part of the show was Springsteen, Elvis Costello, Dave Grohl
(and Steve Van Zant) doing the Clash's London Calling as a tribute. That was
very cool.

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com



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>From: Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM>
>I can't stand Krispy Kremes. All that grease - yuck.

Homer Simpson mode on.

Mmmmm...hot glazed donuts...drool...

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Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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In a message dated 2/24/2003 10:38:19 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< I think that conflict resolution came after my time. Somehow we managed.

alyce
 >>

Exactly, Theo

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:03:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 11:34:05 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote
>> Everyone's life has conflicts, Alyce. Even yours. Especially
>> schoolkids.

> I think that conflict resolution came after my time. Somehow we managed.

It has crossed my mind that I should send the section on Fighting
Fairly to the Shrublet.

Karen

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 10:18:38 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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>Monday, February 24, 2003, 11:34:05 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
>>  Karen Kay wrote
>>>  Everyone's life has conflicts, Alyce. Even yours. Especially
>>>  schoolkids.
>
>  > I think that conflict resolution came after my time. Somehow we managed.

Me too -- but in my time, playground scuffles rarely included knives and guns.

And let's not even go into several men of my acquaintance who have
been deeply emotionally damaged by having been picked on and beaten
up every day of their lives for years and years...

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 13:07:13 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: "Chicago"
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>>He certainly learned how to spoil a fun movie by reading into it all kinds
>>of things that weren't there.
>
>You *didn't* see it as being about a decadent culture whose values
>are being created by cynical media?

No, I didn't.

>My, I wonder what you thought of"Cabaret."
>Janet

I didn't see Cabaret.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 13:10:08 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: How bout them Grammys?
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:06:36 -0500
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Date:         Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:26:05 -0700
From:         S Hess <Sandra@MAXIMUMSENTENCE.COM>
Subject:      Re: When did that happen?

Oh....so that's whose daughter she is. Someone told me she was the daughter
of a jazz singer and I stretched and thought perhaps Jack Jones, but I think
he wasn't really a jazz singer. Ravi Shankar, really? I've heard his name
but I associate him with a sitar or such. Is that right?

Yeah, I'm loving her cd. Just adore that first cut.

Sandra

> >From: S Hess <Sandra@MAXIMUMSENTENCE.COM>
> >Norah Jones's Come
> >What May (highly!!! recommended)
>
>Yeah, I like her. The song I hear a lot is, "Turn me on" (or whatever it's
>called), oh, yeah, and "Come Away with Me". She's young, 22, so I imagine
>she'll be around a while. Do you know she's Ravi Shankar's daughter?
>
>Marie
>



Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com




_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 13:16:06 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:08:50 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Sandra wrote:

 Ravi Shankar, really? I've heard his name
> but I associate him with a sitar or such. Is that right?

Yes, a sitar. You might also associate him with the Beatles.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 13:23:47 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Help
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 13:24:04 -0600
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I'm again getting eBay spam and I forwarded it
to eBay and they want me to send the the
headers.  I know to find the headers by going
into properties, but from there I can't use paste
and copy.  Any idea how I can get this info
without laboriously hand copying all that stuff?

                 - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 13:25:29 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:18:07 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Just heard a pundit person named Doug Brinkley on CNN. He explained that
Americans have become jittery and insecure since 911. He said that the
purpose of a war is to make them feel secure.

And then I heard an ambassador from Iran. He said that 100,000 Iranians
had been killed or injured by Iraqi chemicals during the Iran-Iraqi war,
and he fears another war in the region, lest the chemicals start flying
around again (because chemicals do not recognize national borders). He
also expressed concern for US forces because he thinks they most
assuredly would encounter chemicals.

fwiw

alyce

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 11:28:39 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: "Chicago"
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>  >>He certainly learned how to spoil a fun movie by reading into it all kinds
>>>of things that weren't there.
>>
>>You *didn't* see it as being about a decadent culture whose values
>>are being created by cynical media?
>
>No, I didn't.
>
>  >My, I wonder what you thought of"Cabaret."
>
>I didn't see Cabaret.

Well, if you enjoyed Chicago, you probably should -- same composers,
same choreographer. I guess to you it will be a nice little story of
failed love in prewar Germany.

Janet

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:25:15 -0500
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Subject: Re: It's all clear to me now
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My opinion:  If we're going to attack the skunk we'd better be prepared to get
sprayed.

BrP





> Just heard a pundit person named Doug Brinkley on CNN. He explained that
> Americans have become jittery and insecure since 911. He said that the
> purpose of a war is to make them feel secure.
>
> And then I heard an ambassador from Iran. He said that 100,000 Iranians
> had been killed or injured by Iraqi chemicals during the Iran-Iraqi war,
> and he fears another war in the region, lest the chemicals start flying
> around again (because chemicals do not recognize national borders). He
> also expressed concern for US forces because he thinks they most
> assuredly would encounter chemicals.
>
> fwiw
>
> alyce

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> Just heard a pundit person named Doug Brinkley on CNN. He explained
that
> Americans have become jittery and insecure since 911. He said that the
> purpose of a war is to make them feel secure.

Like scaring the monster out from under your bed?

Is Doug related to David??
>
> And then I heard an ambassador from Iran. He said that 100,000
Iranians
> had been killed or injured by Iraqi chemicals during the Iran-Iraqi
war,
> and he fears another war in the region, lest the chemicals start
flying
> around again (because chemicals do not recognize national borders). He
> also expressed concern for US forces because he thinks they most
> assuredly would encounter chemicals.
>
> fwiw
>
> alyce


Well, they can't use chemicals against us if they
don't have any.

I believe that our boys have big suits they climb
into to protect them from the chemicals.  They are
beastly hot and uncomfortable.  I can't imagine
using them in the desert, particularly in a couple
of months when it heats up.

              - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 13:37:46 2003
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> My opinion:  If we're going to attack the skunk we'd better be
prepared to get
> sprayed.
>
> BrP
>

Is that one way to prove <we> were right?
"See . . I told you that skunk has spray. ."

                            - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 13:40:43 2003
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I don't know if this has been talked about here ( I have had to do some more mass-
deleting and may have missed a thing or two).  I saw it yesterday and liked it a lot.  It
is very violent and I usually do not like films that are very violent, but it was not
gratuitous violence - they were very violent times.  The thing I liked the most was
that it succeeds where the Big Screen works best - at creating the feel of a time and
place.  The cinematography, set and costume design, and special effects are all
quite magnificent.  The story per se is perhaps the weakest part, but I thought it all
worked extremely well and I was not at all sorry to have spent the three hours
watching it.


BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 13:43:08 2003
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At 10:04 AM 2/24/2003 -0600, richard wrote:


>We called it boxing or judo lessons.

Where I spent my early years, they called it "letting a contract."

cwv

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> > My opinion:  If we're going to attack the skunk we'd better be
> prepared to get
> > sprayed.
> >
> > BrP
> >
>
> Is that one way to prove <we> were right?
> "See . . I told you that skunk has spray. ."
>
>                             - D. M.

Unfortunately, I suspect it might just be.  I truly hope that something will occur to
keep this madness from happening, but I just don't see that this administration is
going to be persuaded by anything short of Saddam Hussein's death to call off the
dogs.

I have heard some rumblings about the protestors giving encouragement to "the
enemy" but it seems to me that Iraq must be feeling like war is inevitable no matter
how they respond to the UN and that this fact is what has to be driving them to be as
prepared to fight back as they can be.


BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 13:58:23 2003
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alyce:
> Just heard a pundit person named Doug Brinkley on CNN.

Apropos of nothing, he's one of Stephen Ambrose's lap dogs.

Well, *was* one of his lap dogs.

--
I don't need any footnotes, either, missy!

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Doris Markland wrote
 I can't imagine
> using them in the desert, particularly in a couple
> of months when it heats up.

We are agreed on something at last.

alyce

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BrP Ebert:
>not at all sorry to have spent the three hours watching it.

Whereas I wasted 2+ hours last night enduring
"A Beautiful Mind".

If they wanted to make a movie about a screwed-up
math genius, why didn't they pick someone interesting,
say, Alan Turing.

jeezopeet, "The Stephen Hawking Story" would have
had more action that ABM.

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 14:03:39 2003
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clyde:
> Where I spent my early years, they called it "letting a contract."

Didn't you and I spend our early years in the same place?

...and Alyce, for that matter, if I'm remembering correctly.

--
...I'm older than that now

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Paul R. Barfoot writes,

>I just don't see that this administration is going to be persuaded by
>anything short of Saddam Hussein's death

I have difficulty imagining a likely scenario of getting a confirmed kill
on Saddam, and even the Administration now is just expressing its goal as
disarming him.  (They still refer specifically to Saddam, just not his
death or capture.)

Very interesting piece by John Perry Barlow on Dick Cheney's possible
motivations, BTW.  Barlow, for whatever else he may be, is observant,
smart, and analytical, and has worked with Cheney personally, so he's got a
good vantage point:

http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/200302/msg00186.html

or equivalently,

http://tinyurl.com/6cly

Pete

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:03:11 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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At 02:00 PM 2/24/2003 -0600, richard wrote:
>clyde:
> > Where I spent my early years, they called it "letting a contract."
>
>Didn't you and I spend our early years in the same place?
>
>...and Alyce, for that matter, if I'm remembering correctly.
>
>--
>...I'm older than that now

Yes.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:08:41 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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>BrP Ebert:
>>not at all sorry to have spent the three hours watching it.
>
>Whereas I wasted 2+ hours last night enduring
>"A Beautiful Mind".
>
>If they wanted to make a movie about a screwed-up
>math genius, why didn't they pick someone interesting,
>say, Alan Turing.

There's a wonderful one-man show that's played here a couple of times
about Buckminster Fuller. If it ever tours near you, catch it.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:08:21 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
> clyde:
> > Where I spent my early years, they called it "letting a contract."
>
> Didn't you and I spend our early years in the same place?
>
> ...and Alyce, for that matter, if I'm remembering correctly.

Yep!

alyce of the South Side

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:17:32 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Ziperovich <sharon@idiom.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, Janet Hardy wrote:

> >BrP Ebert:
> >>not at all sorry to have spent the three hours watching it.
> >
> >Whereas I wasted 2+ hours last night enduring
> >"A Beautiful Mind".
> >
> >If they wanted to make a movie about a screwed-up
> >math genius, why didn't they pick someone interesting,
> >say, Alan Turing.
>
> There's a wonderful one-man show that's played here a couple of times
> about Buckminster Fuller. If it ever tours near you, catch it.
>
I second that.  I took my (then) 14-year old son to it and he still talks
about it.

 Sharon

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 14:21:26 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:18:13 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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02003-02-24 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> There's something to be said for being a small stagnant list - I've
> little doubt that Alyce and Natalie's pro-peace posts would turn
> hordes of people in favor of war.

There's something about people like this ...

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:26:14 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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> On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, bonniev wrote:
> > The book that Bayla just published about the history of aircraft.

A particularly bad decision, in my opinion.

02003-02-24 | Sharon Ziperovich <sharon@IDIOM.COM> writes:
> Does "Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan count?  I felt that there was
> at least a reference to sex, even if the sex is had by plants while the
> desire is human.

Yes, it counts--it misdirects, and has obviously been chosen
to "pique the interest" of academic bores. The author (NICE
name, by the way) shouldn't have listened to the publishers.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:28:57 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bill Maher's new show
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02003-02-24 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> Tushar:
>
> >This thread has gone out of control. The basic point has
> >been lost, which is that Bertie is not gay. What kind of
> >vapid theory is it that looks at Bertie and concludes
> >"gay"? Sheeze ...
>
> The same kind that characterizes everything as bobo?

Oh, go to Namibia ... jeeze

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Words from a Republican
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02003-02-24 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> Tushar:
>
> >Sounds like a paranoid girl to me. Anyway, overly general "principles"
> >like this are irrelevant to maintaining the prestige and respect the US
> >must have in the current stage of history.
>
> Prestige, respect - how is that different from credibility?

Whatever it is, it clearly takes precedence over any general
principle about unilateral accusations, preemptive strikes,
and international law. Which is the point.

That's the thing about tough-minded realists. You can drive
them gradually into any position you want if you are enough
of a bully. Just follow one little fait accompli after the
other, and they will bewail it and they will take up some
tough-minded practical moral-free stance, but they will be
apologists for you. If anything goes wrong with this "strike",
for instance, we will have tons of tough-minded people shedding
tears about the next tough decision they have to make ... which
is--right--escalate for credibility.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:40:50 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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According to Dan Rather, who had an interview with Hussein.
Things are getting downright comical.

alyce
--
a

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 14:54:32 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 12:50:19 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>  > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, bonniev wrote:
>>  > The book that Bayla just published about the history of aircraft.
>
>A particularly bad decision, in my opinion.
>
>02003-02-24 | Sharon Ziperovich <sharon@IDIOM.COM> writes:
>>  Does "Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan count?  I felt that there was
>>  at least a reference to sex, even if the sex is had by plants while the
>>  desire is human.
>
>Yes, it counts--it misdirects, and has obviously been chosen
>to "pique the interest" of academic bores. The author (NICE
>name, by the way) shouldn't have listened to the publishers.

How do you know the publishers suggested the name? The "Deja Vu and
the Phone Sex Queen" author fought his publisher tooth and nail to
have that title, a decision that the publisher now regrets. And do we
know that Bayla's publisher, and not Bayla, chose the name for that
book?

Choosing titles is *tough*. I think I've mentioned before that we
came very close to not using "Ethical Slut," but I now think the
decision to use it was exactly right -- we've undoubtedly cost
ourselves a few readers, but the title definitely causes double-takes
which translate into sales from many others.

I recently had to come up with a title for a book about enema play,
without using the word enema, which I was quite sure would cost us a
lot of shelf space -- and klismaphilia is not well enough understood
to go in a title. The author and I went several rounds before we
decided on "Intimate Invasions" (with, of course, a more explanatory
subtitle).

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 14:54:44 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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Oh, I'd love to see that.  Maybe they could do a version of Fear Factor where they're
both covered with spiders or maggots or something.  It sure beats war.

BrP




> According to Dan Rather, who had an interview with Hussein.
> Things are getting downright comical.
>
> alyce
> --
> a

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 14:56:44 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:53:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 2:50:45 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> Oh, I'd love to see that.  Maybe they could do a version of Fear Factor where they're
> both covered with spiders or maggots or something.  It sure beats war.

LOL. You are so evil, my Evil Twin!:)

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 15:07:14 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:04:00 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Sharing pictures
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02003-02-23 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
> Where be the Tush Man posting pics?

I almost missed this ... send them to images<at>words-l.org.

My problem is I have no wherewithal to do anything except
"make them available" in some ugly fashion. Some time I
will put them in a fancy web page etc ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 15:16:29 2003
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My cow orkers agree that the only appropriate person to moderate such a debate
would be Anne Robinson.


BrP

(I'll bet the writers for Letterman and Leno are scratching away furiously right now)



> According to Dan Rather, who had an interview with Hussein.
> Things are getting downright comical.
>
> alyce
> --
> a

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 15:33:00 2003
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> My cow orkers agree that the only appropriate person to moderate such
a debate
> would be Anne Robinson.
>
>
> BrP
>
> (I'll bet the writers for Letterman and Leno are scratching away
furiously right now)

And SNL.  That would be great.

         - D. M.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-24 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > > On Mon, 24 Feb 2003, bonniev wrote:
> >> > The book that Bayla just published about the history of aircraft.
> >
> >A particularly bad decision, in my opinion.
> >
> >02003-02-24 | Sharon Ziperovich <sharon@IDIOM.COM> writes:
> >> Does "Botany of Desire" by Michael Pollan count?  I felt that there was
> >> at least a reference to sex, even if the sex is had by plants while the
> >> desire is human.
> >
> >Yes, it counts--it misdirects, and has obviously been chosen
> >to "pique the interest" of academic bores. The author (NICE
> >name, by the way) shouldn't have listened to the publishers.
>
> How do you know the publishers suggested the name? The "Deja Vu and
> the Phone Sex Queen" author fought his publisher tooth and nail to
> have that title, a decision that the publisher now regrets. And do we
> know that Bayla's publisher, and not Bayla, chose the name for that
> book?

True, I don't know. In fact, I now think that many academic authors
may have simply internalized the dumb tendency of calling, e.g. a
book about nuns "Piercing the Habit" etc. However, I also believe
that your image of an creative and courageous author "sacrificing
a few reviews" with a risqué title is not at all correct for
academics' books.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 16:22:18 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:14:08 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
>  do we
> know that Bayla's publisher, and not Bayla, chose the name for that
> book?

I think (but cannot swear) that Bayla chose the title.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 14:30:50 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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>  > How do you know the publishers suggested the name? The "Deja Vu and
>>  the Phone Sex Queen" author fought his publisher tooth and nail to
>>  have that title, a decision that the publisher now regrets. And do we
>>  know that Bayla's publisher, and not Bayla, chose the name for that
>>  book?
>
>True, I don't know. In fact, I now think that many academic authors
>may have simply internalized the dumb tendency of calling, e.g. a
>book about nuns "Piercing the Habit" etc. However, I also believe
>that your image of an creative and courageous author "sacrificing
>a few reviews" with a risquÈ title is not at all correct for
>academics' books.

Quite true. Academic publishing is its own field, that works under
its own rules, and I'm the first to admit that I know nothing about
it. (Likewise children's book publishing and Christian publishing --
they have their own price structures, market channels, etc., that
don't have much to do with the rest of the publishing world.)

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:33:01 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Tushar Samant wrote:

 However, I also believe
> that your image of an creative and courageous author "sacrificing
> a few reviews" with a risqué title is not at all correct for
> academics' books.

The title is Sex with God: A Cultural History of Flying, unless it was
changed. But the title was not chosen to be risque, was it?

Here are the first two paragraphs from the introduction:
        Human flight is not a simple matter of science and technology.  It is a
continuing epic of dreams and obsession, of yearning and striving to
harness the intellect in the service of the emotions. Humanity's drive
toward the heavens has many wellsprings and multiple outlets, which
interact with, and reinforce, each other.  Technological ingenuity is
simply one of these outlets for the ancient dream. This book integrates
both aspects of this quest, the psychological and the technological, as
expressed in art and artifact.

        For millennia, people of all cultures have dreamed of flying.  Their
dreams have had overtones of religion, of liberation and redemption, of
sexuality, and of empowerment.  Flight  is fraught with symbolism, the
stuff of legend and myth.  Flying has been an end in itself, and a means
to other ends.  This book explores these complex and varied substrates
of a universal urge, an urge which has not been satisfied by the
accomplishments of the 20th century.  Humankind continues to dream of
flight: ever higher, further, faster

alyce

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:52:01 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Saddam wants debate with Bush
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In a message dated 02/24/2003 3:13:34 PM Central Standard Time,
prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU writes:

<<
My cow orkers agree that the only appropriate person to moderate such a debate
would be Anne Robinson.

>>

Oh, yes.  She would give them such a dressing down.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:03:43 +0000
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Sylvia:

>I've been contemplating a similar thought. What could be the backlash to
>all the protests? Would some consider the protesters as aiding and abetting
>Saddam and Osama?

Not me. I didn't hear them say anything about Osama. I don't
buy the conflation of the two - Saddam and Bin Laden.

-rashmi

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Marie:

> >I can't stand Krispy Kremes. All that grease - yuck.

>Homer Simpson mode on. Mmmmm...hot glazed donuts...drool...

I bet Homer (my hero) was drooling over a Dunkin Donut. I can
scarf those down. It's KKs I don't care for.

-rashmi

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:06:10 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 5:04:50 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> I bet Homer (my hero) was drooling over a Dunkin Donut. I can
> scarf those down. It's KKs I don't care for.

The glazed ones are extremely sweet.

Round Rock Donuts rool.

Karen

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: report from NYC
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:06:18 +0000
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>Why? Can you point out some specifics of what you find offensive in our
>views, or are you just being gratuitiously insulting tonight?

I said nothing about offensiveness, just the persuasiveness of
the posts. Natalie and Alyce's posts may drive me towards the war
camp but Bonnie drives me out of there. So I'm stuck in the
obnoxious middle. This war talk makes me not want to agree with
*anybody*. Sorry.

-rashmi

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 17:21:38 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:16:12 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I'm finishing up the second conflict resolution module, so I
> asked my sister to test one of the exercises with her family.
>
> When we were talking about it afterwards on the phone, she
> mentioned that both her sons had been through conflict resolution
> training in fifth grade. Is this normal? For those of you who
> have children, have your kids done this?


        Informal conflict resolution should be a part of all grade
school curriculum.  Some kids are trained in formal conflict
resolution so that they can be peer mediators -- that's
fairly standard practice now.  I do conflict resolution
stuff informally.

        FWIW, I don't think previous generations have done "just
fine" without it.  If you did, then we wouldn't be in the
big fucking mess we're in today.  DUH.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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In a message dated 02/24/2003 5:18:54 PM Central Standard Time,
rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<
        FWIW, I don't think previous generations have done "just
fine" without it.  If you did, then we wouldn't be in the
big fucking mess we're in today.  DUH.
>>

I agree.  There was this kid in eighth grade who kept tormenting me;
I was told to "just ignore him." He kept up the torment.  Now I wish I
had taken up the paint brush I was using in art class as he was
tormenting me and shoved the brush down his throat.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 17:32:06 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:28:30 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> I bet Homer (my hero) was drooling over a Dunkin Donut. I can
> scarf those down. It's KKs I don't care for.

Are KKs new?  It seems to me I've heard of them for many years.  I'm
also trying to remember what the two American donut chains in Japan were
(or at least the two I noticed -- maybe there were others).  One of them
was Dunkin Donut.  But there was another one that I always got mixed up
with DD -- another one that my mind associated with it.  Sometimes
friends would arrange to meet in front of one of these donut places near
my apartment, and we'd sometimes get the name mixed up in the planning
-- saying Dunkin Donuts when it was really the other one or vice versa.
What's another chain that I might get easily mixed up with Dunkin Donut?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 17:42:35 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:39:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tulsa is on NBC news.

Karen

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:14:37 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
> And do we
> know that Bayla's publisher, and not Bayla, chose the name for that
> book?

Because she talked about it right here on the list.  I remember her
saying that the publisher didn't like her title, but I noticed that it
ended up very close to her original choice.  Possibly _Like Sex With
Gods_ was in fact her original choice, although I remember thinking when
she told us that it was out that the title had been altered slightly.
I'm not positive at all, but I was thinking her original title had God
singular rather than Gods.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:17:38 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Janet Hardy wrote:
> >  do we
> > know that Bayla's publisher, and not Bayla, chose the name for that
> > book?
>
> I think (but cannot swear) that Bayla chose the title.

Oops.  I just looked again at Verdant's wording and saw that my
answering with "because" doesn't fit.  I was thinking there had been a
how in the question.  Tis been a long day.  Anyway, Bayla did indeed
choose either that exact title or something very close to it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 17:51:36 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:19:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Speaking of Bayla, I bet she knew that sociologist who just died.
Somebody on NPR said that he's the one who created the field of the
sociology of science.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 17:51:37 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:

> The title is Sex with God: A Cultural History of Flying, unless it was
> changed. But the title was not chosen to be risque, was it?

Aha!  I started to say that her original was _Sex with God_ but then
decided that maybe the "Like" was in it all along.  Yes, it was
changed.  It's _Like Sex with Gods_.  Don't remember about the subtitle.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:33:46 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> >Why? Can you point out some specifics of what you find offensive in our
> >views, or are you just being gratuitiously insulting tonight?
>
> I said nothing about offensiveness, just the persuasiveness of
> the posts.

I don't get this.  I assume you're saying that the arguments are not
persuasive.  But how does that drive somebody out of somewhere?  I can
see how it might fail to drive somebody into the camp.  I no longer have
your original, but my memory is that you said that Alyce and I were
driving you to be in favor of war.

> Natalie and Alyce's posts may drive me towards the war
> camp but Bonnie drives me out of there. So I'm stuck in the
> obnoxious middle. This war talk makes me not want to agree with
> *anybody*. Sorry.

Somehow it surprises me quite a bit that you base your opinions on the
kind of thing Bonnie has already admitted she bases her opinions on.
Forget thought -- if you don't like somebody (or what that person is
saying), you move to the other side of the issue.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:23:16 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>         FWIW, I don't think previous generations have done "just
> fine" without it.  If you did, then we wouldn't be in the
> big fucking mess we're in today.  DUH.

It is not my generation wishing to go to war.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:38:13 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 5:28:30 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Are KKs new?  It seems to me I've heard of them for many years.

They were a Southern thing for many years. KK's arrived in CA
before they came to Austin, though.

> What's another chain that I might get easily mixed up with Dunkin Donut?

I'm not sure I ever saw a Dunkin Donuts. There's Mistah Donuts,
but I don't know if they are an American chain.

Ohayooo, Mistah Donuts, Konnichi wa, Mistah Donuts...

Karen

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:39:43 +0000
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Rita:

>  Huh?  All donuts are deep fried in grease.

I know. KK does something to their donuts that makes them gross.

-rashmi




_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:19:29 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> Betty wrote:
>
>>   I really don't understand the
>> popularity either but every time a new one opens people are lined up.
>
>
> I can't stand Krispy Kremes. All that grease - yuck.
>


        Huh?  All donuts are deep fried in grease.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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In a message dated 2/24/2003 11:18:26 AM, verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<< And let's not even go into several men of my acquaintance who have
been deeply emotionally damaged by having been picked on and beaten
up every day of their lives for years and years...
 >>

That's horrible. It didn't happen in my time and country, at least not on the
playground. I remember that there were always 2 teachers monitoring it. They
would walk together talking to each other.
I also remember that when my kids were school age that I wasn't happy with
the system, because I was comparing it with mine.
Yes, you are right about the guns and stuff; I pity today's parents and kids.
Theo

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Hey, Evelyn!
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In a message dated 02/24/2003 5:39:24 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Tulsa is on NBC news.


>>

What happened?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 17:56:03 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:54:03 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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>In a message dated 2/24/2003 11:18:26 AM, verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
><< And let's not even go into several men of my acquaintance who have
>been deeply emotionally damaged by having been picked on and beaten
>up every day of their lives for years and years...
>  >>
>
>That's horrible. It didn't happen in my time and country, at least not on the
>playground. I remember that there were always

I don't think it happened on the playground to my friends either, at
least not ordinarily. But that was in the days when most kids walked
home from school, and for a boy who's physically small,
intellectually quick and/or effeminate in manner, that's instant
punching-bag status. (Each of my own kids has been beaten up on the
street by other teenagers/young men at least once, fortunately not
badly.)

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 15:55:51 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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>Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
>>  I bet Homer (my hero) was drooling over a Dunkin Donut. I can
>>  scarf those down. It's KKs I don't care for.
>
>Are KKs new?  It seems to me I've heard of them for many years.

They've been around in your part of the country for quite a while --
I believe the chain was founded in Raleigh, NC -- but they're still
new in California. The first one opened in Fremont about two years
ago, I think, and caused traffic jams for its first couple of weeks.
(Same thing happened back when In & Out Burgers first started opening
in NorCal; I suspect the ownership of the two chains is either
identical or closely linked, since you often find them side-by-side.)

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:55:10 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-24 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> >Why? Can you point out some specifics of what you find offensive in our
> >views, or are you just being gratuitiously insulting tonight?
>
> I said nothing about offensiveness, just the persuasiveness of
> the posts. Natalie and Alyce's posts may drive me towards the
> war camp but Bonnie drives me out of there. So I'm stuck in the
> obnoxious middle. This war talk makes me not want to agree with
> *anybody*. Sorry.

This sounds too much like rejecting a camp--such as it is--out
of fear of association (or dislike of association, to be more
accurate). Aren't there reasons to have or not have an opinion
OTHER than whether a bunch of wackos have a similar opinion?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:04:33 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:01:19 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Are KKs new?  It seems to me I've heard of them for many years.
>
> They were a Southern thing for many years.

Oh good.  I thought it was just my mutant brain telling me that they'd
been around for years.

> > What's another chain that I might get easily mixed up with Dunkin Donut?
>
> I'm not sure I ever saw a Dunkin Donuts. There's Mistah Donuts,
> but I don't know if they are an American chain.
>
> Ohayooo, Mistah Donuts, Konnichi wa, Mistah Donuts...

Yes.  I do think that the two big chains in Japan are Dunkin and Mr.  I
never could remember which one it was near where I lived.  Neither could
my Japanese friends.  They'd say, "Let's meet in front of [whichever of
them]" and then we'd try to remember whether that was the right name or
whether it was the other chain.  Didn't matter since we knew the place
we were talking about.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Janet Hardy wrote:

>  (Each of my own kids has been beaten up on the
> street by other teenagers/young men at least once, fortunately not
> badly.)

Did you consider moving to The Netherlands?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:08:13 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:04:54 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> 02003-02-24 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> > >Why? Can you point out some specifics of what you find offensive in our
> > >views, or are you just being gratuitiously insulting tonight?
> >
> > I said nothing about offensiveness, just the persuasiveness of
> > the posts. Natalie and Alyce's posts may drive me towards the
> > war camp but Bonnie drives me out of there. So I'm stuck in the
> > obnoxious middle. This war talk makes me not want to agree with
> > *anybody*. Sorry.
>
> This sounds too much like rejecting a camp--such as it is--out
> of fear of association (or dislike of association, to be more
> accurate). Aren't there reasons to have or not have an opinion
> OTHER than whether a bunch of wackos have a similar opinion?

That's why I was surprised at what Rashmi said.  I'd had her pegged as
one who thought about issues and reached her conclusions rationally.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:09:29 2003
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Janet, on the one-man show:
> about Buckminster Fuller. If it ever tours near you, catch it.

That sounds cool.  Is it a specific person who does the
show, or is it a script that others do?

I don't expect such a show would ever play here, though.

Unless!  Maybe I should do it.  Unfortunately, the small
theatres I did my shows in have been trendified out of
existence and are now -- yes, Tushar -- bobo bars.

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:11:36 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Tushar:

>This sounds too much like rejecting a camp--such as it is--out
>of fear of association (or dislike of association, to be more
>accurate). Aren't there reasons to have or not have an opinion
>OTHER than whether a bunch of wackos have a similar opinion?

Check the archives. I've bored myself to death going on and
on about why I ended up in favor of war even though I totally
distrust the Bush gang.

-rashmi

_________________________________________________________________
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Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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In a message dated 2/24/2003 5:02:47 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< Did you consider moving to The Netherlands? >>

I didn't say it NEVER happened, I'm sure there were fights among the kids,
*sometimes*, but never in school. You can make fun of it all you want, but
the Netherlands has no death penalty, and dropped out of it's support to the
US first.
So there! Theo

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:15:14 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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>Janet, on the one-man show:
>>  about Buckminster Fuller. If it ever tours near you, catch it.
>
>That sounds cool.  Is it a specific person who does the
>show, or is it a script that others do?
>
>I don't expect such a show would ever play here, though.
>
>Unless!  Maybe I should do it.  Unfortunately, the small
>theatres I did my shows in have been trendified out of
>existence and are now -- yes, Tushar -- bobo bars.

I think it's a specific guy who does the show. If you want to google
it, it's called "Buckminster Fuller: The History -- And Mystery -- Of
The Universe."

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:18:03 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:14:06 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>   (Each of my own kids has been beaten up on the
>>  street by other teenagers/young men at least once, fortunately not
>  > badly.)
>
>Did you consider moving to The Netherlands?

Naah, too cold.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:15:31 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 5:48:55 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> In a message dated 02/24/2003 5:39:24 PM Central Standard Time,
> Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

> <<
> Tulsa is on NBC news.


>>>

> What happened?

They have no money. Not really news...

Karen

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Message-ID: <3E5AB635.CC6AB669@maynor.net>
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:17:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I should be at Beans & Greens.  It's always a good event, and I like
showing my support of The Party.  But I decided even before leaving
campus at 5:00 that I was not going.  I half-heartedly tried to find
somebody to give my ticket to but didn't really mind that I didn't
succeed, unless it had been somebody not otherwise planning to go.  Iow,
my giving away my ticket would have been a $10 loss to the Oktibbeha
County Democratic Party if it had been somebody who was going to go buy
a ticket at the door.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:21:28 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> Rita:
>
>>  Huh?  All donuts are deep fried in grease.
>
>
> I know. KK does something to their donuts that makes them gross.


        Dip them in the sugar while they're still hot.  Supposed to
wait until they cool.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:24:20 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:21:02 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/24/2003 5:02:47 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:
>
> << Did you consider moving to The Netherlands? >>
>
> I didn't say it NEVER happened, I'm sure there were fights among the kids,
> *sometimes*, but never in school. You can make fun of it all you want, but
> the Netherlands has no death penalty, and dropped out of it's support to the
> US first.
> So there! Theo

I really do think dropping your "so there"s would be a good way to Win
Friends And Influence People.  I'm not making fun of the thought that
there were never fights in schools.  There were no fights in the schools
I went to either.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:25:11 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:22:27 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
>
>>I bet Homer (my hero) was drooling over a Dunkin Donut. I can
>>scarf those down. It's KKs I don't care for.
>>
>
> Are KKs new?  It seems to me I've heard of them for many years.  I'm
> also trying to remember what the two American donut chains in Japan were
> (or at least the two I noticed -- maybe there were others).  One of them
> was Dunkin Donut.  But there was another one that I always got mixed up
> with DD -- another one that my mind associated with it.  Sometimes
> friends would arrange to meet in front of one of these donut places near
> my apartment, and we'd sometimes get the name mixed up in the planning
> -- saying Dunkin Donuts when it was really the other one or vice versa.
> What's another chain that I might get easily mixed up with Dunkin Donut?


        Mr. Donut, which was bought out by Dunkin Donuts.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:25:11 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:21:51 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> >Did you consider moving to The Netherlands?
>
> Naah, too cold.

And damp.  Oops.  Scratch that.  I just remembered where you live.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:26:01 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:23:19 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>> Janet Hardy wrote:
>>
>>>   (Each of my own kids has been beaten up on the
>>>  street by other teenagers/young men at least once, fortunately not
>>
>>  > badly.)
>>
>> Did you consider moving to The Netherlands?
>
>
> Naah, too cold.


        Too many junkies.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:26:35 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:23:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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It's 28 degrees and the sun hasn't set yet. Should I worry about
my cat? It feels *very* cold out--it's very windy. It'll probably
get down in the low 20's tonight. Should I put her in the garage?
There's no way out, though, and I don't want her to poop there.

I still haven't discovered where she poops.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:32:51 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:29:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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is on tonight.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:38:46 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:35:25 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> It's 28 degrees and the sun hasn't set yet. Should I worry about
> my cat? It feels *very* cold out--it's very windy. It'll probably
> get down in the low 20's tonight. Should I put her in the garage?
> There's no way out, though, and I don't want her to poop there.

How warm is the garage?  She now sleeps in a shelter you built, right?
I can't remember the details, but didn't you say you had put blankets in
it -- or some such bedding -- t-shirts or sweatshirts maybe?  I'm
wondering if the garage would be any warmer than that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:39:18 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> is on tonight.

I think I've given up on it.  I haven't watched it in several weeks now.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 18:39:22 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:32:59 -0700
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I still haven't discovered where she poops.

    Your neighbor's yards.

JMW

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:38:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 6:32:59 PM, John Williams wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I still haven't discovered where she poops.
>     Your neighbor's yards.

Probably... I'm just afraid that once I mow, I'll come across
some huge cache...

Karen

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:42:13 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 6:35:25 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> How warm is the garage?

Warmer than the patio

> She now sleeps in a shelter you built, right?

No. She sleeps wherever she wants to, outside. Sometimes she
sleeps on a chair, which is where the t-shirts currently are.
Sometimes she sleeps on the patio concrete. Sometimes she sleeps
on the other chair.  Sometimes she sleeps in the bushes.
Sometimes she sleeps on the lemon balm.

> I can't remember the details, but didn't you say you had put blankets in
> it -- or some such bedding -- t-shirts or sweatshirts maybe?  I'm
> wondering if the garage would be any warmer than that.

It would be more enclosed, so yes, it would be warmer. But she
couldn't get out.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Hey, Evelyn!
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In a message dated 02/24/2003 6:15:43 PM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
They have no money. Not really news...


>>

Well, hey, I knew that the city has no money:  no money for bus service,
no money for teachers, no money for snow removal.  Sales tax revenues
have been down so much that the state is pushing to get a lottery.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:42:48 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 6:35:59 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>> is on tonight.

> I think I've given up on it.  I haven't watched it in several weeks now.

It hasn't been on for a while.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "meebers" <words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: One more try at IMFTATL
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:47:16 -0500
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So, can any of you give me any advice re: Norton Antivirus downloads before
I go ahead, suck it up, and pay to renew my subscription?

--Adam

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:48:20 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 6:47:16 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> So, can any of you give me any advice re: Norton Antivirus downloads before
> I go ahead, suck it up, and pay to renew my subscription?

I wasn't able to figure it out and ended up paying $$$.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 16:48:01 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Conflict Resolution
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>  >Did you consider moving to The Netherlands?
>>
>>  Naah, too cold.
>
>And damp.  Oops.  Scratch that.  I just remembered where you live.

Oakland's a lot less c&d than San Francisco.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:58:18 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Probably... I'm just afraid that once I mow, I'll come across
> some huge cache...

Not a big problem.  Most of it will be dry, and the rest you can cut
first and then cut the rest of your grass, knocking the gooey stink off
of the lawnmower blades while doing so.

I did hate Bernardykins' habit of watching me cut the backyard, round
and round until there was just a small grassy patch in the middle not
yet cut, and squatting in that grassy patch just as I was about to get
to it.  Spencer doesn't do that.  He's abnormally <modest> about
bathroom activities and sneaks away way far away to go when nobody is
looking.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> It would be more enclosed, so yes, it would be warmer. But she
> couldn't get out.

Surely some of the cat people will have good answers.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 18:59:53 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > I think I've given up on it.  I haven't watched it in several weeks now.
>
> It hasn't been on for a while.

It seems very recently that a friend who watches it was talking about
how he'd enjoyed it -- something about a nightclub and singing and
dancing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 17:59:00 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > I can't remember the details, but didn't you say you had put blankets in
> > it -- or some such bedding -- t-shirts or sweatshirts maybe?  I'm
> > wondering if the garage would be any warmer than that.
>
> It would be more enclosed, so yes, it would be warmer. But she
> couldn't get out.

    Take a cardboard box, cut a Cat-sized arch in it, and upturn it over the
t-shirts, old towels, or what have you. Crumpled newspapers. Or even nothing.
Can't hoit.

JMW

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:02:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 6:59:03 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> It would be more enclosed, so yes, it would be warmer. But she
>> couldn't get out.

> Surely some of the cat people will have good answers.

My ET tells me that cats know how to take care of themselves. I
think I will trust him on this.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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> So, can any of you give me any advice re: Norton Antivirus downloads
before
> I go ahead, suck it up, and pay to renew my subscription?
>
> --Adam

I asked the same question a while back and
never got any advice from all these very
knowledgeable people.

            - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:07:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 6:59:00 PM, John Williams wrote:
>     Take a cardboard box, cut a Cat-sized arch in it, and upturn it over the
> t-shirts, old towels, or what have you. Crumpled newspapers. Or even nothing.
> Can't hoit.

I recycle. She was eyeing a plastic plant pot that's out there,
so may decide to fit into that. *I* would hate to be out on such
a night, but she does NOT like being closed in.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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In a message dated 02/24/2003 7:02:24 PM Central Standard Time,
williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU writes:

<<
    Take a cardboard box, cut a Cat-sized arch in it, and upturn it over the
t-shirts, old towels, or what have you. Crumpled newspapers. Or even nothing.
Can't hoit.


>>

I agree; it would make a shelter against the cold and wind.

Question:  do you have a side door to the garage that you
can leave open a little?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack sheep.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:13:01 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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02003-02-24 | "C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" <rjscheid@NADAL.LOYNO.EDU> writes:
> Unless!  Maybe I should do it.  Unfortunately, the small
> theatres I did my shows in have been trendified out of
> existence and are now -- yes, Tushar -- bobo bars.

I am not sure that's the meaning of the word ... Are these trendy
places full of people who have a bug up their ass about enjoying
the "fine things in life", but never in their life admit to being
rich? That's one definition, in my understanding of the word. Though
I haven't read the book ...

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:14:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 7:12:07 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> Question:  do you have a side door to the garage that you
> can leave open a little?

No.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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From: "C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" <rjscheid@nadal.loyno.edu>
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Natalie:
>the Oktibbeha County

There's a horse running at the Fairgrounds this season
whose name is some variant of that.  Always clanks off
my eye loupe as I pick my winners.

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

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Rita:
>         Too many junkies.

And the Germans stole all the community bikes.

--
my Michael Briel quote here would really piss off Theo

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savant samant:
> I am not sure that's the meaning of the word ...

Yes, I'm not sure I have a grip on the concept, either.
Anyway, there's a whole faux Bohemian feel to the Marigny
(the area I'm speaking of) that the Quarter had at some
point, too.

> full of people who have a bug up their ass about enjoying the
> "fine things in life", but never in their life admit to being rich?

Yes, I'd say so.  And since just about anyone in NOLA who
has a steady job could qualify -- compared to most of the
population -- as "rich", the slumming uptowners would
definitely fit that template.

--
Richard, filthy fakkin' rich, I got THREE jobs

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:51:44 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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02003-02-24 | "C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" <rjscheid@NADAL.LOYNO.EDU> writes:
> savant samant:
> > I am not sure that's the meaning of the word ...
>
> Yes, I'm not sure I have a grip on the concept, either.

I think "I am not a tourist I am a *traveller*" figures very
largely into it.

> Anyway, there's a whole faux Bohemian feel to the Marigny
> (the area I'm speaking of) that the Quarter had at some
> point, too.
>
> > full of people who have a bug up their ass about enjoying the
> > "fine things in life", but never in their life admit to being rich?
>
> Yes, I'd say so.  And since just about anyone in NOLA who
> has a steady job could qualify -- compared to most of the
> population -- as "rich", the slumming uptowners would
> definitely fit that template.

Piss on em anyway

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 19:56:44 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 19:53:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 7:51:44 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> I think "I am not a tourist I am a *traveller*" figures very
> largely into it.

So the Victorians were Bobos? Cool.

> Piss on em anyway

It would freeze in midstream.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-24 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, February 24, 2003, 7:51:44 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > I think "I am not a tourist I am a *traveller*" figures very
> > largely into it.
>
> So the Victorians were Bobos? Cool.

K-R-N,

Is there a problem?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:14:43 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:11:30 -0600
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 8:08:45 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-02-24 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Monday, February 24, 2003, 7:51:44 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>> > I think "I am not a tourist I am a *traveller*" figures very
>> > largely into it.
>>
>> So the Victorians were Bobos? Cool.

> K-R-N,

> Is there a problem?

Yes. I can hardly walk and sitting is painful. Thank you for
asking!

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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02003-02-24 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> The title is Sex with God: A Cultural History of Flying, unless it was
> changed. But the title was not chosen to be risque, was it?
>
> Here are the first two paragraphs from the introduction:
>         Human flight is not a simple matter of science and technology.  It is a
> continuing epic of dreams and obsession, of yearning and striving to
> harness the intellect in the service of the emotions. Humanity's drive
> toward the heavens has many wellsprings and multiple outlets, which
> interact with, and reinforce, each other.  Technological ingenuity is
> simply one of these outlets for the ancient dream. This book integrates
> both aspects of this quest, the psychological and the technological, as
> expressed in art and artifact.
>
>         For millennia, people of all cultures have dreamed of flying.  Their
> dreams have had overtones of religion, of liberation and redemption, of
> sexuality, and of empowerment.  Flight  is fraught with symbolism, the
> stuff of legend and myth.  Flying has been an end in itself, and a means
> to other ends.  This book explores these complex and varied substrates
> of a universal urge, an urge which has not been satisfied by the
> accomplishments of the 20th century.  Humankind continues to dream of
> flight: ever higher, further, faster

I don't know what it would mean to say that the title was (or wasn't)
"chosen to be risqué". But a few things which are obvious to me: the
motivation for the name as laid out in these paragraphs is weak, the
title shouts out "SEX GODS" no matter what it really is, and the most
likely association with sex WITH gods that the intended reader will
make is of raping Greek deities, which the exact opposite of humans
ascending. It follows that the purpose of the title is not much more
<lofty> than catching a bored academic's eye.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:19:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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The cat is curled up on the t-shirts on the chair. It's 25
degrees and the high tomorrow is 33. (The low tonight is 27.)

I can't tell which end is her front and which is her back.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:24:10 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: One more try at IMFTATL
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:20:49 -0500
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> I asked the same question a while back and
> never got any advice from all these very
> knowledgeable people.
>
>             - D. M.

Ah. I knew we'd talked about it before, but couldn't remember the
resolution, and didn't think to STF Archives.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:26:38 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> My ET tells me that cats know how to take care of themselves. I
> think I will trust him on this.

If this cat has been living outside and if the weather there has in the
past been in the low 20s, then probably you don't need to worry.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:31:02 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:27:46 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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02003-02-24 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, February 24, 2003, 8:08:45 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > 02003-02-24 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> Monday, February 24, 2003, 7:51:44 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >> > I think "I am not a tourist I am a *traveller*" figures very
> >> > largely into it.
> >>
> >> So the Victorians were Bobos? Cool.
>
> > K-R-N,
>
> > Is there a problem?
>
> Yes. I can hardly walk and sitting is painful. Thank you for
> asking!

Wish you get well soon!

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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 8:26:38 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> If this cat has been living outside and if the weather there has in the
> past been in the low 20s, then probably you don't need to worry.

It had a garage to go into before.

Jeeze. My lights are flickering. No worries about the computer
because it's on a UPS, but I don't want to reset all the clocks.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:33:22 2003
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 8:27:46 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> Wish you get well soon!

Thank you! Me, too. I have more intimate knowledge of my sciatic
nerve than I ever wanted.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:33:26 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:29:44 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> > So, can any of you give me any advice re: Norton Antivirus downloads
> before
> > I go ahead, suck it up, and pay to renew my subscription?
> >
> > --Adam
>
> I asked the same question a while back and
> never got any advice from all these very
> knowledgeable people.

What is there to be knowledgeable about here?  Isn't the current Norton
situation that you have to pay again after a year?  Are we looking for
some kind of way to hack their system and steal a renewal or what?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:37:13 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:33:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
> Natalie:
> >the Oktibbeha County
>
> There's a horse running at the Fairgrounds this season
> whose name is some variant of that.  Always clanks off
> my eye loupe as I pick my winners.

Unless it's harness-racing, I doubt that there's a connection with
Oktibbeha County.  Harness-racing is big here.  Then again, maybe
somebody from here got into Kentucky-style horses and named one after
this county (or a variant thereof).  Does that horse ever win?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:41:15 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: One more try at IMFTATL
Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:37:52 -0500
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> What is there to be knowledgeable about here?  Isn't the current Norton
> situation that you have to pay again after a year?  Are we looking for
> some kind of way to hack their system and steal a renewal or what?

Not steal a renewal, just download manual updates so I don't have to pay for
the automatic updates. I found a place to download updates, but that only
works if one's subscription is valid, which mine now is not.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:39:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 8:37:52 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> Not steal a renewal, just download manual updates so I don't have to pay for
> the automatic updates. I found a place to download updates, but that only
> works if one's subscription is valid, which mine now is not.

That's what I found.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:43:26 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:39:44 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Jeeze. My lights are flickering. No worries about the computer
> because it's on a UPS, but I don't want to reset all the clocks.

When I was talking to the nice electric dept man last week, I mentioned
how great it was that the electricity in this neighborhood rarely goes
off, as opposed to my former neighborhood.  I said that I assumed the
problem in my former neighborhood was the overbuilding -- the huge
number of apartments packed into a small area.  He said that that might
have been a contributing factor but that the main problem was squirrels
in the transformers and that the situation has greatly improved in that
neighborhood now that they've put squirrel nets over the transformers.
I should've asked him whether he remembered the summers of the snakes in
the transformers, when the electricity all over town was out.  I'm sure
he does remember, even if it was before he was working for the electric
dept.  I think he's a native of Sville.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:49:22 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:46:02 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> > What is there to be knowledgeable about here?  Isn't the current Norton
> > situation that you have to pay again after a year?  Are we looking for
> > some kind of way to hack their system and steal a renewal or what?
>
> Not steal a renewal, just download manual updates so I don't have to pay for
> the automatic updates. I found a place to download updates, but that only
> works if one's subscription is valid, which mine now is not.

I don't think you have to have automatic updates.  I think you can
choose to manually update instead.  But you still have to pay.  Iow,
what you're paying for is the anti-virus software, not the method of
getting it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 20:59:52 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:56:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Zillions of times in my life I've softened cream cheese.  But I've never
noticed exactly how long it takes.  I plop it out and then some number
of hours later do with it whatever it is that I'm to do with softened
cream cheese.

But I have a problem now.  I need to make fairly early tomorrow morning
two things that require softened cream cheese.  I worry that setting it
out when I get up tomorrow morning won't give it long enough to soften
before I have to use it.  There's a good chance that I'll wake up to go
to the bathroom sometime during the night and could set it out then.
But I might forget.  If I set it out right now, would that be too long
before I need to use it in the morning?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 21:00:16 2003
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tushar:
>>the slumming uptowners would definitely fit that template.
> Piss on em anyway

Sorry, at the moment, I am undercover at the debutante
parties, trying to find out if Rita's right about them
drinking "lemon squeezes".

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 21:01:50 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:58:33 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 8:56:33 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> But I have a problem now.  I need to make fairly early tomorrow morning
> two things that require softened cream cheese.  I worry that setting it
> out when I get up tomorrow morning won't give it long enough to soften
> before I have to use it.  There's a good chance that I'll wake up to go
> to the bathroom sometime during the night and could set it out then.
> But I might forget.  If I set it out right now, would that be too long
> before I need to use it in the morning?

No.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 21:04:05 2003
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Natalie:
> Unless it's harness-racing, I doubt that
> there's a connection Oktibbeha County.

No, it's t-breds, but all that means is that the
breeder or buyer has some OC connection.  Or, they
ran out of sire/dam/grandsire permutations, and
threw a dart at a map.

>Does that horse ever win?

Remember that t-breds don't race nearly as often as
standardbreds, so I've seen the name only a few times
this season.  It just sticks out.

Something-or-other Nat ran third on Sunday.

--
Richard 5:8          Yep.  Like a llama.  Or a camel.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 21:23:39 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:20:19 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>> If I set it out right now, would that be too long
> > before I need to use it in the morning?
>
> No.

Thank you!  That will be easier than having to remember to do it when
getting up to tt in the night.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 22:03:19 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 22:00:01 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: It's a proven fact
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To all those who were laughing at me: survey has proved that chi*x
dig bald dudes: <http://www.baldrus.com/romantic_survey.htm>. How
long before we stop denying this fact?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 22:12:31 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:21:31 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:

> Something-or-other Nat ran third on Sunday.

My goodness.  You've got the answer to the big wins.  Can you bet on
two?  If you go for Oktibbeha County and Nat, you can't possibly lose.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:59:14 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I can't tell which end is her front and which is her back.

The front end eats,

alyce

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Subject: Re:      Re: One more try at IMFTATL
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> > I asked the same question a while back and
> > never got any advice from all these very
> > knowledgeable people.
>
> What is there to be knowledgeable about here?  Isn't the current
Norton
> situation that you have to pay again after a year?  Are we looking for
> some kind of way to hack their system and steal a renewal or what?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Somebody on this <service> said a while back
something like "Why would you pay when you
can get updates on definitions, etc. off their
web site for free?"

Yet, when I tried to do so I was interrupted
with a request to resubscribe.  No, worse than
that.  They wanted me to upgrade beyond the
level I was at . . or something.  They confused
me so much that I did nothing.

            - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Feb 24 22:21:53 2003
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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:03:05 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> To all those who were laughing at me: survey has proved that chi*x
> dig bald dudes: <http://www.baldrus.com/romantic_survey.htm>. How
> long before we stop denying this fact?

You needed a URL to tell you that? It has been known for many years,
since Yul Brynner, and maybe before that.

alyce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 20:48:21 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re: One more try at IMFTATL
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At 4:47 PM -0800 2/24/03, Adam Hartfield wrote:
>So, can any of you give me any advice re: Norton Antivirus downloads before
>I go ahead, suck it up, and pay to renew my subscription?
>
>--Adam

I can't help you on this one, other than the obvious advice that you might
try the obvious sites, e.g., update.symantec.com, liveupdate.symantec.com,
etc.

However, I have a suggestion for the future.  Next time, before the
subscription runs out, put a packet sniffer on your computer and then run
the update function one or more times.  At least you'll find out what IP
addresses the updater is connecting too, which, if I'm remembering
correctly, is your current mystery.

Ken Miller
Systems Annalist
Babbage Engine Works

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 21:19:05 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

>>Norah Jones is (beyond the fact that she won 8 Grammys last night).
>
>We talked about her here a few months ago, I think. She had one
>pretty good song that got hideously overplayed on the radio -- I
>liked it a lot at first but got awfully sick of hearing it. I haven't
>heard her other work.
>
>Janet

Something like this is why I didn't have the slightest interest in watching
the Grammys.

The Clear-Cutting Channel and its quote-unquote competition play everything
into the ground, and I had absolutely zero interest in learning which
labels had spent enough money to get their artists played to an even more
mind-numbing extent than the rest of the relentlessly-hyped crowd.

I do regret having missed Simon and Garfunkel; if I'd known they were going
to do the opening, I might have been tempted to tune in for a few minutes.

Ken Miller
Musical Correspondent
The Lostin Times

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 00:04:54 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:01:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 8:59:14 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I can't tell which end is her front and which is her back.

> The front end eats,

Thanks for your help.:) I meant that she was curled so tightly on
the chair that I couldn't see. But if I opened the door, I'd find
out, because she would spring to attention. "Tt's the Food
Giver!"

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 00:07:50 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:04:37 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, February 24, 2003, 11:19:05 PM, Bookrat wrote:
> I do regret having missed Simon and Garfunkel; if I'd known they were going
> to do the opening, I might have been tempted to tune in for a few minutes.

I saw their last reunion with Karsten, and it was Not That
Thrilling. Basically, they aren't in tune with each other any
more, so it's just kind of sad. (Though they sound good.)

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:19:23 EST
Subject: Re: Cat Q
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In a message dated 2/24/2003 5:59:24 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< Surely some of the cat people will have good answers.
 >>

I'm not exactly a cat person, she being my first one, but I keep a litterbox
in one of the bathrooms, and she faithfully uses it. I really believed
everybody used them.
Theo

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 00:27:54 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 12:19:23 AM, Theodora Groothof wrote:
> I'm not exactly a cat person, she being my first one, but I keep a litterbox
> in one of the bathrooms, and she faithfully uses it. I really believed
> everybody used them.

No. I'd never have one.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 07:41:39 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-02-24 | "C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" <rjscheid@NADAL.LOYNO.EDU> writes:
= > savant samant:
= > > I am not sure that's the meaning of the word ...
= >
= > Yes, I'm not sure I have a grip on the concept, either.
=
= I think "I am not a tourist I am a *traveller*" figures very
= largely into it.
=

Ah, well, then I'm sure I have your approval now to go to
Namibia, because there's no doubt that we are going to be
tourists instead of travellers.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 01:04:27 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Bill Maher's New Show
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 01:04:06 -0600
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I finally saw it, and I enjoyed it.
Pretty good mix.  I've always liked
Larry Miller.

One thing stood out for me though.
Bill threw in the F word a few times in
a way that sounded forced.  Like he was
doing it not for any reason . . except that
he is on HBO now and <can> do it.
Somehow it didn't come off just right IMO.

                       - D. M.

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:12:39 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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>02003-02-24 | "C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" <rjscheid@NADAL.LOYNO.EDU> writes:
>>  Unless!  Maybe I should do it.  Unfortunately, the small
>>  theatres I did my shows in have been trendified out of
>>  existence and are now -- yes, Tushar -- bobo bars.
>
>I am not sure that's the meaning of the word ... Are these trendy
>places full of people who have a bug up their ass about enjoying
>the "fine things in life", but never in their life admit to being
>rich? That's one definition, in my understanding of the word. Though
>I haven't read the book ...

Of course, the term is a shortened form of "bohemian bourgeoisie,"
which is pretty self-explanatory: affluent people whose values are
those that in previous generations mostly were held by non-affluent
people (students, artists and the like). Politically rather liberal,
very high regard for creativity, individuality and personal growth, a
socially libertarian stance, and so on.

I'm a fairly classic bobo, really, except I rarely have enough money
to qualify. If you look at the chapter in "Bobos In Paradise" about
bobo sexuality, many of the people in the chapter are personal
acquaintances of mine.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 24 Feb 2003 23:16:12 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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>To all those who were laughing at me: survey has proved that chi*x
>dig bald dudes: <http://www.baldrus.com/romantic_survey.htm>. How
>long before we stop denying this fact?

Never did deny it -- I've always had a bit of a thing for bald men.
However, shaving the head seems like cheating; I'd rather a bald man
was authentically bald (Patrick Stewart, Bruce Willis _au naturel_,
etc.).

Janet

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Tushar Samant:
= To all those who were laughing at me: survey has proved that chi*x
= dig bald dudes: <http://www.baldrus.com/romantic_survey.htm>. How
= long before we stop denying this fact?

Kojack
Jean Luc Picard
Tushar

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Adam Hartfield writes,

>Not steal a renewal, just download manual updates so I don't have to pay for
>the automatic updates.

I won't ask about the subtle distinction between "steal" and "don't have to
pay." :)

Remember to distinguish between updates to the program and updated virus
definitions; the latter is what keeps protecting you.  (Then ask yourself
if Symantec really wants you to find ways to get free razor blades instead
of buying a subscription for them.)

Anyway, you can try a thread like this, from alt.2600:
<http://tinyurl.com/6e2c>.

Note also when you Google for <norton-antivirus> you get a bunch of ads
offering inexpensive new copies with 90-day or 1-year subscriptions, e.g.:
<http://www.westgatemedia.com/products/norton_av3.html>.

Pete
who doesn't use AV software anyway

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World Champion in 4x10 km cross country relay: Norway!

Espen

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 05:52:47 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:

> tushar:
>
>>>the slumming uptowners would definitely fit that template.
>>>
>>Piss on em anyway
>>
>
> Sorry, at the moment, I am undercover at the debutante
> parties, trying to find out if Rita's right about them
> drinking "lemon squeezes".
>


        Excellent, I expect a report, typed, two pages, MLA style, by
next week.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 06:35:24 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 06:31:56 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> Adam Hartfield writes,
>
> >Not steal a renewal, just download manual updates so I don't have to pay for
> >the automatic updates.
>
> I won't ask about the subtle distinction between "steal" and "don't have to
> pay." :)

I thought maybe he meant that what you pay for is the automaticity --
that the updates themselves were free if you got them manually.  (That
did not strike me as likely, though.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
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all that matters is that she can tell

BrP


> The cat is curled up on the t-shirts on the chair. It's 25
> degrees and the high tomorrow is 33. (The low tonight is 27.)
>
> I can't tell which end is her front and which is her back.
>
> Karen

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Stick it in the microwave on the defrost setting


BrP




> Zillions of times in my life I've softened cream cheese.  But I've never
> noticed exactly how long it takes.  I plop it out and then some number
> of hours later do with it whatever it is that I'm to do with softened
> cream cheese.
>
> But I have a problem now.  I need to make fairly early tomorrow morning
> two things that require softened cream cheese.  I worry that setting it
> out when I get up tomorrow morning won't give it long enough to soften
> before I have to use it.  There's a good chance that I'll wake up to go
> to the bathroom sometime during the night and could set it out then.
> But I might forget.  If I set it out right now, would that be too long
> before I need to use it in the morning?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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= Stick it in the microwave on the defrost setting
=
=
= BrP
=

Oh God.  For a minute there I thought you were talking about the cat.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 07:07:56 2003
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> = Stick it in the microwave on the defrost setting
> =
> =
> = BrP
> =
>
> Oh God.  For a minute there I thought you were talking about the cat.

LOL
I'm not THAT evil.


BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 07:10:59 2003
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Attraction is a funny thing.  I was never all that attracted to bald men - until I met
Steve...

BrP




> Tushar Samant wrote:
> >
> > To all those who were laughing at me: survey has proved that chi*x
> > dig bald dudes: <http://www.baldrus.com/romantic_survey.htm>. How
> > long before we stop denying this fact?
>
> You needed a URL to tell you that? It has been known for many years,
> since Yul Brynner, and maybe before that.
>
> alyce
>
>
> --

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:02:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 6:56:40 AM, steph wrote:

> = Stick it in the microwave on the defrost setting
> =
> =
> = BrP
> =

> Oh God.  For a minute there I thought you were talking about the cat.

I may have to do that. It made it down into the teens last night
and everything that wasn't already frozen, is now. My tulips
aren't going to bloom.:( And my iris are all...melted.

I keep reminding myself that I am VERY glad not to be living in a
log cabin.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:13:50 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I read William Raspberry's column in the Starkville Daily News (he's a
native Mississippian, btw) between steps in playing with cream cheese a
little while ago.  Good column.  Here it is from the WP, his home
newspaper:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A55845-2003Feb23.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> Stick it in the microwave on the defrost setting

It worked out fine.  I decided at the last minute not to put it out
before going to bed since I knew I'd wake up at some point in the night
and could set it out.  I woke up at 11:30, set it out, and it was
perfect this morning.  The pate is now made, along with step one of the
pinwheels.  Everything is on schedule.  There's nothing I can do about
the muddy pawprints that will be all over the house.  Wet weather is
like that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:18:42 -0600
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I may have to do that. It made it down into the teens last night
> and everything that wasn't already frozen, is now. My tulips
> aren't going to bloom.:( And my iris are all...melted.

Why will the tulips not bloom?  I've planted tulips only once -- a long
time ago, but I thought they were like jonquils in weather tastes.  The
jonquils here are blooming like crazy in spite of dips into the teens
off and on.

But the more important question:  How is Pussy this morning?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 08:26:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 8:18:42 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Why will the tulips not bloom?

Because they are frozen and flopped over. My lavender was getting
ready to produce flowers, too.:(

>  I've planted tulips only once -- a long
> time ago, but I thought they were like jonquils in weather tastes.  The
> jonquils here are blooming like crazy in spite of dips into the teens
> off and on.

I don't know. All I know is when I look outside, everthing is
flopped down to the ground.

> But the more important question:  How is Pussy this morning?

Fine, thank you. Or do you mean my cat? I have no idea. There
were birds on the patio, so I think she's not in the yard.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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At 08:02 AM 2/25/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>I may have to do that. It made it down into the teens last night
>and everything that wasn't already frozen, is now. My tulips
>aren't going to bloom.:( And my iris are all...melted.
>
>I keep reminding myself that I am VERY glad not to be living in a
>log cabin.

For about 11,000 of your fellow Austinites (Austinians?) it might have been
very much like a log cabin, if the AP story is correct.

cwv

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:14:08 -0600
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 9:10:34 AM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> For about 11,000 of your fellow Austinites (Austinians?) it might have been
> very much like a log cabin, if the AP story is correct.

Austinites.

I'm glad I wasn't one. (Though I do have a gas log I could turn
on.) I'm seriously thinking about going back to bed; it's cold
even with the heat on.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 09:14:59 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > But the more important question:  How is Pussy this morning?
>
> Fine, thank you.

Have I mentioned that the person who used to stand outside her apartment
the first place I lived in Starkville and holler "Pussy, Pussy" lives
around the circle from me now?  It's like <full circle> or something.
But I haven't heard her hollering "Pussy" from her front door in this
neighborhood.  She has one, though.  Spencer barks at it when we walk by
that house.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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This whole discussion is like dialogue from Are You Being Served?


BrP




> Karen Kay wrote:
>
> > > But the more important question:  How is Pussy this morning?
> >
> > Fine, thank you.
>
> Have I mentioned that the person who used to stand outside her apartment
> the first place I lived in Starkville and holler "Pussy, Pussy" lives
> around the circle from me now?  It's like <full circle> or something.
> But I haven't heard her hollering "Pussy" from her front door in this
> neighborhood.  She has one, though.  Spencer barks at it when we walk by
> that house.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Barfoot's Bouncers,
3 Mallows House,
Church Street,
Yetminster,
Sherbourne,
Dorset.
Member of the British Inlatable Hirers Association

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Karen
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>> > I bet Homer (my hero) was drooling over a Dunkin Donut. I can
> > scarf those down. It's KKs I don't care for.
>
>Are KKs new?  It seems to me I've heard of them for many years.

They've *exploded* in the last couple of years, appearing everywhere, but
they've been around for quite a while. We used to sell them for fundraisers
when I was a child.

We've had this conversation over and over...

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 10:02:18 2003
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08:02 25.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>I keep reminding myself that I am VERY glad not to be living in a
>log cabin.

Log cabins can be warm and good:

<http://home.no.net/espenore/2001/sornesset.jpg>

These houses are log cabins - the plank panels on the outside are mainly for <esthetical> reasons. The building here which we mainly have stayed in has no planks:

<http://home.no.net/espenore/sommer99/huset.jpg>

And this was very nice and warm just with the wood stove at the time when I took the winter photo above.

Espen

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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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At 04:53 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>bonniev wrote:
>
> > We are all fed up with wars.  But some of us think they are sometimes
> > necessary to avoid a greater evil.  We know who funds and who backs
> > terrorists because we, and our allies, have an intelligence gathering
> > community that figures these things out.
>
>So we're attacking Saudi Arabia?  How soon?
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

As soon as we take over the oil fields in Iraq and no longer need Saudi oil.

lisa

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Subject: Re: "Chicago"
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At 07:01 AM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>> > that any of you know him, so it really doesn't matter, but his name is
>> > Bob Aldridge.  He's from Mississippi but has lived in Iowa for many
>> > years now.)
>>
>>He's learned so little from Iowa.  Alas.
>>           - D. M.
>
>He certainly learned how to spoil a fun movie by reading into it all kinds
>of things that weren't there.
>
>
>    --bonniev

I agree Bonnie, it was a fun movie and I didn't see how it related to
anything going in the world today.

lisa

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At 11:32 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> >
> > 02003-02-23 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
> >
> > >The exact same thing is happening to me that happened during the first
> > >Bush's Gulf War.  I started out against it.  But the more I talked to
> > >my rowing partner, with his bleeding heart misdirection and stupid
> > >argumentation, the more I began to be totally in favor of war.
> >
> > There's something to be said for being a small stagnant list - I've
> > little doubt that Alyce and Natalie's pro-peace posts would turn
> > hordes of people in favor of war.
>
>I've been contemplating a similar thought.  What could be the backlash
>to all the protests?
>Would some consider the protesters as aiding and abetting Saddam and Osama?
>
>
>Sylvia Edwards

I don't see the protests as, "aiding and abetting" Saddam or Osama. What I
do think they show, or maybe it's what I hope they show, is that there is a
strong, vocal, faction of the American public who are not in favor of war.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 10:55:11 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:50:22 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: frozen dinner
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At 08:45 AM 2/24/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>In a message dated 02/24/2003 7:41:48 AM Central Standard Time,
>alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:
>
><<
>Riley's mother got Ensure Plus for me at Walmart and it was $7.99 for a
>six-pack. Does Walmart have its own store brand as well for less?
>
>
> >>
>
>Yes, the Equate brand; I don't know how much it is, but I know it will be
>less.  Also, the next time I go to the mall, I'm going to look at GNC to
>see if I can get a body-building powder to mix with milk.
>
>Evelyn Duncan
>brandykitt@aol.com
>This account protected by an attack sheep.


You might want to do a little price comparison as that stuff tends to be
expensive, especially at a store like GNC.

lisa

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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At 07:42 AM 2/24/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>A sweep for Norah Jones. She'll either go up or down from here.
>
>AS

Good for her, she's very, very talented. I also liked that she displayed
class and poise.

She has a great chance for a long career. Her chances for commercial
success at the level she's experienced this year aren't as great.

She's a jazz artist and most likely won't get the same radio play with
subsequent releases. Her music isn't what you'd normally hear on pop radio
stations.

lisa

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Subject: Lysistrata
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I have joined in a group of people who are doing a reading of Aristophanes'
Lysistrata on March 3.  I understand that there will be similar readings of the play in
several places that day.  We had a 3 hr rehearsal last night and it was little short of
chaos, but it will be fun anyway.  The director seems to be uncertain about how
much staging and costuming she wants - in my opinion it should either be just a
reading or it should be fully staged and rehearsed.  The choreography-with-script-in-
hand approach is very difficult - but then, I'm not directing and the performance is
free and everybody will have a good time in spite of (or perhaps because of) the
chaos.

The play - for those who don't just know these things - revolves around the women
dissuading their husbands from going to war by witholding sex.  The funny thing
about the cast for this particular performance is that it is almost all gay men and
lesbians - it does add to the silliness.


BrP

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:14:17 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> I have joined in a group of people who are doing a reading of Aristophanes'
> Lysistrata on March 3.  I understand that there will be similar readings of the play in
> several places that day.

Oh, good. There are at least 739 readings worldwide scheduled so far.
There is a lot about the "Lysistrata Project" at:
http://www.pecosdesign.com/lys/

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 12:42:47 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 10:03:31 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: How long is too long?
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>This whole discussion is like dialogue from Are You Being Served?

Has anybody watched "What Not To Wear"? I got utterly hooked by it
the other night -- turned on the TV just to go to sleep with, and
wound up watching every last minute of it.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:03:12 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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02003-02-24 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> However, shaving the head seems like cheating; I'd rather a bald man
> was authentically bald

Fill in the blanks: _O_O

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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02003-02-24 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> Of course, the term is a shortened form of "bohemian bourgeoisie,"
> which is pretty self-explanatory: affluent people whose values are
> those that in previous generations mostly were held by non-affluent
> people (students, artists and the like). Politically rather liberal,
> very high regard for creativity, individuality and personal growth,
> a socially libertarian stance, and so on.

And a habit of describing one's tediously cliched qualities
in glowing self-congratulatory terms.

> I'm a fairly classic bobo, really, except I rarely have enough money
> to qualify. If you look at the chapter in "Bobos In Paradise" about
> bobo sexuality, many of the people in the chapter are personal
> acquaintances of mine.

That pretty much summarizes the reception of the book--a bunch
of people recognizing themselves and personal acquaintances,
smiling a indulgent smile, and moving on.

The only thing worse in this vein is, I guess, advertising
a spouse's childish or stupid habit and smiling that same
indulgent smile.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: How long is too long?
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02003-02-25 | "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> writes:
> > = Stick it in the microwave on the defrost setting
> >
> > Oh God.  For a minute there I thought you were talking about the cat.
>
> LOL
> I'm not THAT evil.

LAME

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 13:23:55 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:21:30 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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>02003-02-24 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  However, shaving the head seems like cheating; I'd rather a bald man
>  > was authentically bald
>
>Fill in the blanks: _O_O

No, sweetie, you mean "asshole." The two terms are not synonymous, no
matter what you'd like to believe.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 11:22:22 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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>02003-02-24 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  Of course, the term is a shortened form of "bohemian bourgeoisie,"
>>  which is pretty self-explanatory: affluent people whose values are
>>  those that in previous generations mostly were held by non-affluent
>>  people (students, artists and the like). Politically rather liberal,
>>  very high regard for creativity, individuality and personal growth,
>>  a socially libertarian stance, and so on.
>
>And a habit of describing one's tediously cliched qualities
>in glowing self-congratulatory terms.

What on earth makes you think those are self-congratulatory terms? I
agree that they're rather tedious, and that in particular a "high
regard for individuality" is a self-cancelling phrase.

Janet

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Message-ID: <3E5BC25D.1987F0D3@akad.ee>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:22:05 +0200
From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@akad.ee>
Organization: Akadeemia
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Espen Ore wrote:

> Log cabins can be warm and good:
>
> <http://home.no.net/espenore/2001/sornesset.jpg>
>

Espen, as I wanted to change my computer's wallpaper anyway, I thought, with your kind permission, it'd be the right picture. Aamf, I set it already, to try how it'll
look, and ask you humbly to leave it as a wallpaper till my longing for spring changes for my admiration of beautiful winter landscape.

Kristin

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
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On Monday, February 24, 2003 at 20:48, Bookrat wrote:

> At 4:47 PM -0800 2/24/03, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> >So, can any of you give me any advice re: Norton Antivirus downloads before
> >I go ahead, suck it up, and pay to renew my subscription?
> >
> >--Adam
>
> I can't help you on this one, other than the obvious advice that you might
> try the obvious sites, e.g., update.symantec.com, liveupdate.symantec.com,
> etc.

Perhaps http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/download.html ?

> However, I have a suggestion for the future.  Next time, before the
> subscription runs out, put a packet sniffer on your computer and then run
> the update function one or more times.  At least you'll find out what IP
> addresses the updater is connecting too, which, if I'm remembering
> correctly, is your current mystery.

The updater connects to one of
http://liveupdate.symantecliveupdate.com or
ftp://update.symantec.com/opt/content/onramp
but it won't talk to just any browser.

Tony H.

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 13:47:32 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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02003-02-25 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >02003-02-24 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >> Of course, the term is a shortened form of "bohemian bourgeoisie,"
> >> which is pretty self-explanatory: affluent people whose values are
> >> those that in previous generations mostly were held by non-affluent
> >> people (students, artists and the like). Politically rather liberal,
> >> very high regard for creativity, individuality and personal growth,
> >> a socially libertarian stance, and so on.
> >
> >And a habit of describing one's tediously cliched qualities
> >in glowing self-congratulatory terms.
>
> What on earth makes you think those are self-congratulatory terms? I
> agree that they're rather tedious, and that in particular a "high
> regard for individuality" is a self-cancelling phrase.

Sure.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 14:04:58 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 12:03:10 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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>  > What on earth makes you think those are self-congratulatory terms? I
>>  agree that they're rather tedious, and that in particular a "high
>  > regard for individuality" is a self-cancelling phrase.
>
>Sure.

So you like, and are proud of, all *your* personal characteristics?
That must be very nice.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 14:05:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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She just showed up for food. I gave her dry food now, and I'll
give her wet food in a little while. It's only 24. I think this
is breaking lots of records.

I brought her inside the house and she wouldn't stay.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 14:31:24 2003
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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Gangs of New York
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02003-02-25 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > > What on earth makes you think those are self-congratulatory terms? I
> >> agree that they're rather tedious, and that in particular a "high
> > > regard for individuality" is a self-cancelling phrase.
> >
> >Sure.
>
> So you like, and are proud of, all *your* personal characteristics?
> That must be very nice.

If you insist ...

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In a message dated 2/25/2003 5:55:56 AM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:

<< Oh God.  For a minute there I thought you were talking about the cat >>

LOL, Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 14:47:34 2003
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> 02003-02-24 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > However, shaving the head seems like cheating; I'd rather a bald man
> > was authentically bald
>
> Fill in the blanks: _O_O

Having had occasion to visit the Shakesperean Insult Generator, I encountered the
following from Two Gentlemen of Verona and it seemed as if it belonged in this
thread:

"[Thou] hath more hair than wit, and more faults than hairs, and more wealth than
faults."


BrP

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In a message dated 2/25/2003 1:05:57 PM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< I brought her inside the house and she wouldn't stay.
 >>

What made it clear to you that she wanted to leave? Mine went outside a few
minutes when I opened the front door for my visitor who was leaving, but she
came scratching on the glass patio door in just a few minutes, because we are
having the coldest temperatures since 1997 here in Idaho, and it's been
rather chilly. Just wondering, Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 15:21:35 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:17:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 3:08:21 PM, Theodora Groothof wrote:
> What made it clear to you that she wanted to leave?

The fact that she did.

I picked her up and brought her in, but she wouldn't stay. I
don't close the door when she's in the house--I don't think it's
fair to her, because she's used to having freedom of movement.
But I can't leave the door wide open for long when it's only 24
degrees.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:33:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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http://www.lordofthepeeps.com/

Karen

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:58:52 EST
Subject: Re: How long is too long?
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In a message dated 2/25/2003 12:23:23 PM, Kristin.Sarv@AKAD.EE writes:

<< Espen, as I wanted to change my computer's wallpaper anyway, I thought,
with your kind permission, it'd be the right picture. Aamf, I set it already,
to try how it'll
look, and ask you humbly to leave it as a wallpaper till my longing for
spring changes for my admiration of beautiful winter landscape.
 >>
What a great idea! The thought came to me what one could use that great
picture for, but wallpaper wasn't one of them. But now that you mention
it.... Theo

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:27:31 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: How long is too long?
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> I keep reminding myself that I am VERY glad not to be living in a
> log cabin.
>
> Karen
> "Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
>  --Deena Metzger

Ummm,  our log cabin has done fine.  When we were in those teens and single
digits, the downstairs proved a bit chilly - 58, so we lit the fireplace
and and were toasty in no time.  In fact by afternoon, it was getting a bit
too warm.

It will be in the 20s all week here.  We're having a 'real' winter here.

Terry

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:37:44 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] frozen dinner
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In a message dated 02/25/2003 10:51:56 AM Central Standard Time,
alfieri@ATTBI.COM writes:

<<
You might want to do a little price comparison as that stuff tends to be
expensive, especially at a store like GNC.


>>

What about SlimFast if she drank that between meals?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:44:20 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] How long is too long?
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In a message dated 02/25/2003 8:02:38 AM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
I may have to do that. It made it down into the teens last night
and everything that wasn't already frozen, is now. My tulips
aren't going to bloom.:( And my iris are all...melted.


>>

One of the weatherpeople said last night that this is the second
snowiest winters in Oklahoma.  A usual winter has 9.1 inches of
snow; this winter has had 20.1 inches.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 17:10:48 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:07:55 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

>>02003-02-24 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>
>>>However, shaving the head seems like cheating; I'd rather a bald man
>>>was authentically bald
>>>
>>Fill in the blanks: _O_O
>>
>
> Having had occasion to visit the Shakesperean Insult Generator, I encountered the
> following from Two Gentlemen of Verona and it seemed as if it belonged in this
> thread:
>
> "[Thou] hath more hair than wit, and more faults than hairs, and more wealth than
> faults."


        Shakespeare is an ever-flowing source of amusement.

        Today, during discussions of why the conflict in Romeo and
Juliet might arise, they dissected why "things are
different" now for teenagers, how I just couldn't understand
what dating is like for them, and furthermore, how it would
be impossible for me to get a date now.  Apparently, I lack
something called "pimp juice."  It was all way too hilarious.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 17:11:56 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:02:10 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> >
> What about SlimFast if she drank that between meals?

Slimfast will make her slim. Doesn't she need more calories, not fewer?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 17:14:58 2003
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Cat report
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At 03:17 PM 2/25/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 3:08:21 PM, Theodora Groothof wrote:
> > What made it clear to you that she wanted to leave?
>
>The fact that she did.
>
>I picked her up and brought her in, but she wouldn't stay. I
>don't close the door when she's in the house--I don't think it's
>fair to her, because she's used to having freedom of movement.

Good thinking.  An outdoor cat such as she is could quickly panic if
wholely enclosed.  In time (if that's what you want), she might become more
accustomed to spending time indoors, but chances are, she never will be the
typical "hearth cat."

cwv

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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Rita:

>Juliet might arise, they dissected why "things are
>different" now for teenagers, how I just couldn't understand
>what dating is like for them, and furthermore, how it would
>be impossible for me to get a date now.  Apparently, I lack
>something called "pimp juice."  It was all way too hilarious.

You're not wearing enough bling-bling, maybe?

-rashmi


_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:32:32 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: frozen dinner
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>Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>>  >
>>  What about SlimFast if she drank that between meals?
>
>Slimfast will make her slim. Doesn't she need more calories, not fewer?

Slimfast only makes you slim if you eat it instead of meals. If you
eat it besides meals, it will make you fat. I don't think there's
really much basic difference between Slimfast and Ensure, and,
frankly, I'm not sure that either of them is much better for you than
a milkshake, which is considerably tastier.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 15:33:58 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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>Rita:
>
>>Juliet might arise, they dissected why "things are
>>different" now for teenagers, how I just couldn't understand
>>what dating is like for them, and furthermore, how it would
>>be impossible for me to get a date now.  Apparently, I lack
>>something called "pimp juice."  It was all way too hilarious.
>
>You're not wearing enough bling-bling, maybe?

One of the local high schools is attempting to ban something called
"freak dancing" -- which I gather is a teenager's attempt to move
like a Mitchell Bros. peepshow girl -- from school dances. Should be
a very interesting ban to try to enforce.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:33:08 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-25 | "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> writes:
> "[Thou] hath more hair than wit,

Nice thing to say to a bald guy, LAMER!

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 17:36:38 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 5:11:34 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:

> At 03:17 PM 2/25/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 3:08:21 PM, Theodora Groothof wrote:
>> > What made it clear to you that she wanted to leave?
>>
>>The fact that she did.
>>
>>I picked her up and brought her in, but she wouldn't stay. I
>>don't close the door when she's in the house--I don't think it's
>>fair to her, because she's used to having freedom of movement.

> Good thinking.  An outdoor cat such as she is could quickly panic if
> wholely enclosed.  In time (if that's what you want), she might become more
> accustomed to spending time indoors, but chances are, she never will be the
> typical "hearth cat."

Thanks for saying this, Clyde. Yes, that's pretty much what I
think, too.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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Natalie "Nathan Detroit" Maynor:
>If you go for Oktibbeha County and Nat, you can't possibly lose.

I'm not sure both horses race in the same class, so I dunno
if I'll ever get this chance.  However, if it arises, you can
be sure there'll be a few shekels down, as well as two for
you, too.

As it stands, I have made a grand total of three (3) bets this
whole season.  Same ol', same ol', short fields makes for dull
racing.

Furthermore, Marie Krantz, the track's owner, a real standup
broad (as you used to be able to get away with saying), died
over the weekend.

The funeral was today, since it was a scheduled dark day.

--
Richard 4:7        Decius, what's your *problem*?

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 18:01:14 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> Rita:
>
>> Juliet might arise, they dissected why "things are
>> different" now for teenagers, how I just couldn't understand
>> what dating is like for them, and furthermore, how it would
>> be impossible for me to get a date now.  Apparently, I lack
>> something called "pimp juice."  It was all way too hilarious.
>
>
> You're not wearing enough bling-bling, maybe?
>

        This is one of the problems they brought up, yes.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, alyce cresap wrote:

>Slimfast will make her slim. Doesn't she need more calories, not fewer?

LOL! All calories count.

Bethany

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On Sunday, February 23, 2003, at 09:04 , alyce cresap wrote:

> Theodora Groothof wrote:
>>  This whole
>> terrorist thing is beyond my understanding. How can we be sure it's
>> coming
>> from Iraq, and not from any other country?
>
> Well, that is the current Big Question. There seems to be no real
> evidence that Iraq is involved in terrorism or with AlQaeda. But Colin
> Powell and Dubya are intent on making a case for it. In fact, yesterday
> the President of Spain made a long speech down at the ranch about how
> Spain will be a US ally in the war on terrorism. Presumably he is to be
> an ally in Iraq, but he never mentioned Iraq, only terrorism. They
> should be two different things, totally separate.

This may be nit-picking but Spain does not have a President. It is a
monarchy.

Who was making the speech ?
>
> alyce
>
Roy

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Janet writes,

>One of the local high schools is attempting to ban something called
>"freak dancing" -- which I gather is a teenager's attempt to move
>like a Mitchell Bros. peepshow girl -- from school dances. Should be
>a very interesting ban to try to enforce.

I've been seeing it in the Mercury News.  Consists of full-contact
simulated sex, in both vertical and horizontal versions, according to the
stories there.  Other schools have banned it, and chaperones tap violators
on the shoulder and ask them to go sit down or leave.

Pete

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:09:29 EST
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In a message dated 02/25/2003 5:08:42 PM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Slimfast will make her slim. Doesn't she need more calories, not fewer?

>>

If you drink it for meals, it's intended to make you slim.  If you drink it
inbetween meals, shouldn't it add calories?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 19:20:03 2003
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From: Peter Kaminski <kaminski@istori.com>
Subject: Re: report from NYC
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Roy writes,

>This may be nit-picking but Spain does not have a President. It is a
>monarchy.

<http://slate.msn.com/id/1007846/>:

>Spain is a parliamentary monarchy, and so in translating into English the
>role of the elected leader, it is standard to refer to him as the prime
>minister. However, in Spain, Aznar is called Presidente del Gobierno, or
>president of the government, and the English translation of the Spanish
>Constitution says, "The Government consists of the President,
>Vice-Presidents. ..." So, according to the Spanish Embassy and our State
>Department, it is correct to call Aznar either prime minister or president.

whitehouse.gov uses "President":
<http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/02/20030222-2.html>

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 19:36:14 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:32:31 EST
Subject: Re: Cat report
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In a message dated 2/25/2003 2:18:36 PM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< I picked her up and brought her in, but she wouldn't stay. I

don't close the door when she's in the house--I don't think it's

fair to her, because she's used to having freedom of movement.

But I can't leave the door wide open for long when it's only 24

degrees.

 >>
Oh. I don't leave the doors open either, but mine never makes it clear that
she wants out as my dogs did. She only gets out whenever the door opens, but
seems perfectly happy to stay in any other time. It wasn't criticism, just
wondering.
Theo

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Message-ID: <3E5C201F.43C032CE@pop.mindspring.com>
Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:02:07 -0600
From: Sylvia Edwards <s.words@pop.mindspring.com>
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Several of you commented that you did not appreciate my conflating
Saddam and Osama as I mused about the backlash to the war protesters.
Today I've discovered others around me are making such a connection and
taking it seriously.

Yesterday Lisa read me an email she'd received that included these tidbits:
North Korea, which is working with Saddam, has missiles aimed at California.
Bin Laden has helped Saddam hid the weapons in a cave in SYRIA.
The person who allegedly made these claims is now in protective custody
in order to save HER life from the terrorists who are out to get her for
spilling the beans.

I told Lisa that the email must be fake and a new hoax/urban legend.
Her response, "I don't know Mom."  She's right.  I don't know.  But now
I know someone out there is connecting Saddam and Osama in an effort to
support Bush.

I also heard students talking about a hot new song today.  It's by
Darryl Worley and it's called "Have you forgotten."  Here are the lyrics:
Have You Forgotten

                                                      Darryl Worley
                                      Written by Darryl Worley and Wynn
Varble


                       I hear people saying we don't need this war
                       I say there's some things worth fighting for
                       What about our freedom and this piece of ground?
                       We didn't get to keep 'em by backing down
                       They say we don't realize the mess we're getting in
                       Before you start preaching
                       Let me ask you this my friend

                       CHORUS 1
                       Have you forgotten how it felt that day
                       To see your homeland under fire
                       And her people blown away?
                       Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
                       We had neighbors still inside
                       Going through a living hell
                       And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden
                       Have you forgotten?

                       They took all the footage off my T.V.
                       Said it's too disturbing for you and me
                       It'll just breed anger that's what the experts say
                       If it was up to me I'd show it every day
                       Some say this country's just out looking for a fight
                       After 9/11 man I'd have to say that's right

                       CHORUS 1
                       Have you forgotten how it felt that day
                       To see your homeland under fire
                       And her people blown away?
                       Have you forgotten when those towers fell?
                       We had neighbors still inside
                       Going through a living hell
                       And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden
                       Have you forgotten?

                       I've been there with the soldiers
                       Who've gone away to war
                       And you can bet they remember
                       Just what they're fighting for

                       CHORUS 2
                       Have you forgotten all the people killed?
                       Some went down like heroes in that Pennsylvania field
                       Have you forgotten about our Pentagon?
                       All the loved ones that we lost
                       And those left to carry on
                       Don't you tell me not to worry about Bin Laden
                       Have you forgotten?

                       Have you forgotten?
                       Have you forgotten?

My conclusion.  The temperatures are cold, but the tempers are heating up.
--
Sylvia Edwards
who is simply a pondering messenger...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 20:35:43 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:32:16 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Maybe I should go into the party-giving business.  But somehow I don't
think it would be the same to be giving hired parties.  Anyway, the
party was fun.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 20:39:40 2003
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At 08:32 PM 2/25/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Maybe I should go into the party-giving business.  But somehow I don't
>think it would be the same to be giving hired parties.  Anyway, the
>party was fun.

Glad it went well.  I forgot the occasion.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 20:41:18 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:37:08 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
> > > = Stick it in the microwave on the defrost setting
> > >
> > > Oh God.  For a minute there I thought you were talking about the cat.
> >
> > LOL
> > I'm not THAT evil.
>
> LAME

Well, remember that woman who was trying to dry her poodle's hair.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 20:45:51 2003
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > What about SlimFast if she drank that between meals?
>
> Slimfast will make her slim. Doesn't she need more calories, not fewer?

But she said between meals -- as in additional calories.  Or is SlimFast
like grapefruit or whatever it is that the myth claims to take away
calories?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 20:49:23 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:45:48 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Peter Kaminski wrote:

> I've been seeing it in the Mercury News.  Consists of full-contact
> simulated sex, in both vertical and horizontal versions, according to the
> stories there.  Other schools have banned it, and chaperones tap violators
> on the shoulder and ask them to go sit down or leave.

Is it that much <worse> than things like The Alligator and The Dirty
Dog?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Roy Jaques wrote:

> This may be nit-picking but Spain does not have a President. It is a
> monarchy.

What's Aznar?  I've seen "President" attached to his name quite often.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Natalie writes,

>Is it that much <worse> than things like The Alligator and The Dirty
>Dog?

It's the age-old thing, right?  Depends whether you're the parent or the
teenager. :)

Pete

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 20:54:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>  But now
> I know someone out there is connecting Saddam and Osama in an effort to
> support Bush.

Surely it didn't take until now for you to know that.

>                        And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden
>                        Have you forgotten?

I stopped reading the lyrics here since I don't know of anybody saying
we shouldn't worry about Bin Laden.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Sylvia Edwards wrote:
> >  But now
> > I know someone out there is connecting Saddam and Osama in an effort to
> > support Bush.
>
> Surely it didn't take until now for you to know that.
>
> >                        And you say we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden
> >                        Have you forgotten?
>
> I stopped reading the lyrics here since I don't know of anybody saying
> we shouldn't worry about Bin Laden.

So, you got the connection that the song encourages the war effort
because we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden.  OK.

AND here I thought you criticized ME for connecting Saddam and Osama to
a backlash to the war protesters.  mea culpa

--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 21:18:18 2003
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and anyone else who would like to see how big Zach and Rach are getting.

http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=6362461/t_=4633735
--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

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Betty wrote:

> Glad it went well.  I forgot the occasion.

Another visiting job candidate.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Sylvia Edwards wrote:

> So, you got the connection that the song encourages the war effort
> because we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden.  OK.
>
> AND here I thought you criticized ME for connecting Saddam and Osama to
> a backlash to the war protesters.  mea culpa

Huh?  You've lost me.  I think whoever wrote that song has a major
problem with geography and world events.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 09:15 PM 2/25/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Betty wrote:
>
> > Glad it went well.  I forgot the occasion.
>
>Another visiting job candidate.

No one is hiring around here.  Where is the candidate from?

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I don't think I have had to log in before. Did you change something?

Betty

At 09:14 PM 2/25/2003 -0600, Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>and anyone else who would like to see how big Zach and Rach are getting.
>
>http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=6362461/t_=4633735
>--
>Sylvia Edwards
>Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
>Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:28:46 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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|Powell would not be drawn on how
| would Washington react if Pyongyang did
| begin reprocessing but did say that the
| U.S. had "no intention of invading" North
| Korea.
from:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/asiapcf/east/02/25/nkorea.missile/index.html

Will some of you pro-war people explain to me why the U.S., according to
CP, has no intention of invading North Korea?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:32:16 -0600
From: Sylvia Edwards <s.words@pop.mindspring.com>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>
> > So, you got the connection that the song encourages the war effort
> > because we shouldn't worry 'bout Bin Laden.  OK.
> >
> > AND here I thought you criticized ME for connecting Saddam and Osama to
> > a backlash to the war protesters.  mea culpa
>
> Huh?  You've lost me.  I think whoever wrote that song has a major
> problem with geography and world events.

MY point = Hicks are not as cosmopolitan as you are.  THEY have made a
strong connection to 9/11 and Iraq.  For many of the common folk around
me one event supports the other.  The song writer is not as smart as you
are, and neither are some of my students. But I'm afraid they represent
the majority opinion around me right now.  Because of 9/11, they justify
a war with Iraq.  They are NOT concerned about the geography.

Did you miss the earlier notion (before the song) that Saddam and Osama
worked together to hide the weapons in Syria?  What kind of geographical
sense does that make?  Not much, but they don't care....

--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 21:36:04 2003
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: New Photo Album for Betty
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Page doesn't exist. :-(

At 09:14 PM 2/25/2003 -0600, Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>and anyone else who would like to see how big Zach and Rach are getting.
>
>http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=6362461/t_=4633735
>--
>Sylvia Edwards
>Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
>Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 21:36:16 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:32:42 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty wrote:

> No one is hiring around here.  Where is the candidate from?

This one is from Minnesota originally, from the UAE most recently.

I'm hosting another party for another one Thursday.  Can't remember now
where he's from.  These two are for our linguistics/TESOL position.  The
party I hosted a week or so ago was for one of the AmLit candidates -- a
person currently in a visiting position at Wake Forest and whose degree
is from Chapel Hill.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 21:40:05 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:36:39 -0600
From: Sylvia Edwards <s.words@pop.mindspring.com>
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Betty wrote:
>
> I don't think I have had to log in before. Did you change something?
>
> Betty
>
> At 09:14 PM 2/25/2003 -0600, Sylvia Edwards wrote:
> >and anyone else who would like to see how big Zach and Rach are getting.
> >
> >http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=6362461/t_=4633735

Yeah, this is a new location for the pictures.  I didn't realize anyone
had to log in.  Sorry about that.

I do know that once you get in there, they'll encourage you to buy
photos, etc.

I guess this is another Freebie that's not free.

Anyway, the kids are cute and NOT babies any more.  Want me to send you
pictures backchannel?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 21:44:25 2003
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At 09:36 PM 2/25/2003 -0600, Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>Betty wrote:
> >
> > I don't think I have had to log in before. Did you change something?
> >
> > Betty
> >
> > At 09:14 PM 2/25/2003 -0600, Sylvia Edwards wrote:
> > >and anyone else who would like to see how big Zach and Rach are getting.
> > >
> > >http://www.snapfish.com/thumbnailshare/AlbumID=6362461/t_=4633735
>
>Yeah, this is a new location for the pictures.  I didn't realize anyone
>had to log in.  Sorry about that.
>
>I do know that once you get in there, they'll encourage you to buy
>photos, etc.
>
>I guess this is another Freebie that's not free.
>
>Anyway, the kids are cute and NOT babies any more.  Want me to send you
>pictures backchannel?

Yes, because I can't get to the web page even after signing up.

Thanks,
Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 21:47:16 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 21:43:42 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Sylvia Edwards wrote:

> MY point = Hicks are not as cosmopolitan as you are.

I can't help but laugh at the thought that I'm cosmopolitan.  But I'm
not sure that being cosmopolitan has much to do with whether one can
read and reason.  Don't hicks read the same news as cosmopolitans?
Can't they figure out that it wasn't Iraq that flew airplanes into
buildings?

> Did you miss the earlier notion (before the song) that Saddam and Osama
> worked together to hide the weapons in Syria?  What kind of geographical
> sense does that make?  Not much, but they don't care....

No, I didn't miss that.  But I'm relieved that what I had interpreted as
your linking of OBL and Iraq was a misinterpretation.  I find the kind
of rampant stupidity you just gave examples of frightening, but it's
worse when I think that my friends are part of it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:36:32 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>This one is from Minnesota originally, from the UAE most recently.

AE?

Bethany

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Sly writes,

>The song writer is not as smart as you are

Not that I'd disagree, but it's interestin' readin' a piece from the
Cleveland Plain Dealer, "Singer turns a scientific eye to the art of
country music" <http://tinyurl.com/6g7a>.  ("Scientific" refers to the fact
that Worley graduated university with degrees in biology and chemistry.)

>"The song itself has generated so much enthusiasm at the record label and
>amongst the crowds we've played it for," he said. "It's a really cool
>thing that for the first time it's given me a platform to stand on and say
>the kind of things I really want to say and the things that I believe in."
>
>It doesn't hurt that he expects the new disc to help sales of all his
>other albums, too. That acumen thing again.
>
>"It's very early," he said, on the idea of putting out another disc so
>soon behind "I Miss My Friend," "but we think this is a great idea because
>once the new single comes out, the enthusiasm about the other album will
>just be rekindled. I think all of my albums will probably start to sell
>better again."

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 22:04:25 2003
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            <3E5C2C79.BF05B31E@maynor.net>
            <3E5C2FF8.90CE356C@pop.mindspring.com>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>
> > MY point = Hicks are not as cosmopolitan as you are.
>
> I can't help but laugh at the thought that I'm cosmopolitan.  But I'm
> not sure that being cosmopolitan has much to do with whether one can
> read and reason.  Don't hicks read the same news as cosmopolitans?

No, they don't have access to the Starkville papers. 8-)

> Can't they figure out that it wasn't Iraq that flew airplanes into
> buildings?

Many don't make that distinction; bad is bad. Saddam is bad.  Osama is
bad.  Nuke 'em both is a common idea around here. "Georgie's out to
settle this one for good ol' Dad" is another comment I've heard
recently.  It was followed by "Go, George!"

It is scary.

--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 22:12:18 2003
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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> Sly writes,
>
> >The song writer is not as smart as you are

> >"It's very early," he said, on the idea of putting out another disc so
> >soon behind "I Miss My Friend," "but we think this is a great idea because
> >once the new single comes out, the enthusiasm about the other album will
> >just be rekindled. I think all of my albums will probably start to sell
> >better again."

The song was released Feb. 24 and the buzz is STRONG. He's playing a
concert in Kansas City* this week (tomorrow night I think).  The crowd's
reaction will be interesting.  I don't expect him to draw any war
protesters....   BUT what a scene if he would.

*Merriam, Kansas to be more precise.



--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Feb 25 22:14:19 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:03:54 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Will some of you pro-war people explain to me why the U.S., according to
> CP, has no intention of invading North Korea?

I am not a pro-war people. But I believe it is because we have 37,000
troops at the N-S Korean border who'd be toast if we did. N. Korea has
over a million men/women in arms who could just march right on over the
boundary, as well as missiles aimed at Seoul, which is only 37 miles
away, not to mention maybe nukes. We do not have troops available to go
there, given that they are all near Iraq. If there is any money left
over after the 13-20 billion that is going to Turkey, I think they plan
to bribe N. Korea to play nice.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 00:37:19 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:33:13 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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>Janet writes,
>
>>One of the local high schools is attempting to ban something called
>>"freak dancing" -- which I gather is a teenager's attempt to move
>>like a Mitchell Bros. peepshow girl -- from school dances. Should be
>>a very interesting ban to try to enforce.
>
>I've been seeing it in the Mercury News.  Consists of full-contact
>simulated sex, in both vertical and horizontal versions, according to the
>stories there.

Horizontal versions? Wouldn't one get trampled?

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 00:37:19 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 22:34:36 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Don't bother...
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... with "The Life of David Gale." The scenes between Kevin Spacey
and Laura Linney are superb, but unfortunately there's only about 20
minutes' worth of them. The rest of the movie is, to quote Ben
apropos another movie, "simultaneously predictable and improbable."
And Kate Winslet needs to be seriously smacked.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 00:48:58 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Don't bother...
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 00:49:19 -0600
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> ... with "The Life of David Gale." The scenes between Kevin Spacey
> and Laura Linney are superb, but unfortunately there's only about 20
> minutes' worth of them. The rest of the movie is, to quote Ben
> apropos another movie, "simultaneously predictable and improbable."
> And Kate Winslet needs to be seriously smacked.
>
> Janet

But I wonder if you saw my grandson among
the extras?  The movie isn't here yet, but when
I do see it I know some scenes to watch for
in case he made it past the cutting room floor.

              - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 01:27:44 2003
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Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2003 23:25:04 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Don't bother...
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>  > ... with "The Life of David Gale." The scenes between Kevin Spacey
>>  and Laura Linney are superb, but unfortunately there's only about 20
>>  minutes' worth of them. The rest of the movie is, to quote Ben
>>  apropos another movie, "simultaneously predictable and improbable."
>  > And Kate Winslet needs to be seriously smacked.
>
>But I wonder if you saw my grandson among
>the extras?  The movie isn't here yet, but when
>I do see it I know some scenes to watch for
>in case he made it past the cutting room floor.

There were quite a few crowd scenes with pro- and anti-death penalty
protesters. Was he in one of those?

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 01:30:59 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Don't bother...
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 01:31:20 -0600
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> >  > And Kate Winslet needs to be seriously smacked.
> >
> >But I wonder if you saw my grandson among
> >the extras?  The movie isn't here yet, but when
> >I do see it I know some scenes to watch for
> >in case he made it past the cutting room floor.
>
> There were quite a few crowd scenes with pro- and anti-death penalty
> protesters. Was he in one of those?
>
> Janet
>


Yes he was.  And in one scene Kate Winslet runs
into the crowd and runs right into him.  He thought
I'd see him for sure if they leave that scene in.

                                    - D. M.

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From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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09:24 25.02.2003 -0500 skrev lisa alfieri:
>At 04:53 PM 2/23/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>bonniev wrote:
>>
>>> We are all fed up with wars.  But some of us think they are sometimes
>>> necessary to avoid a greater evil.  We know who funds and who backs
>>> terrorists because we, and our allies, have an intelligence gathering
>>> community that figures these things out.
>>
>>So we're attacking Saudi Arabia?  How soon?
>>
>>--
>> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>As soon as we take over the oil fields in Iraq and no longer need Saudi oil.

Maybe your need is not the Iraqi oil at all but rather to establish some kind of bridgehead which will help you have control over the larger oil producing countries around there, especially on the Arab peninsula.

Espen

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21:22 25.02.2003 +0200 skrev Kristin Sarv:
>Espen Ore wrote:
>
>> Log cabins can be warm and good:
>>
>> <http://home.no.net/espenore/2001/sornesset.jpg>
>>
>
>Espen, as I wanted to change my computer's wallpaper anyway, I thought, with your kind permission, it'd be the right picture. Aamf, I set it already, to try how it'll
>look, and ask you humbly to leave it as a wallpaper till my longing for spring changes for my admiration of beautiful winter landscape.

Please feel free! Ingjerd and I have just booked the house on the left (with only part fo it showing in the picture) for a weekend in the beginning of April when the days are lighter but the skiing is still usually good (the photo is taken around March 20). One of the mountains to the right in the photo is where Ibsen places the trolls' hall in "Peer Gynt".

Espen

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 05:45:02 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 05:41:26 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
> >This one is from Minnesota originally, from the UAE most recently.
>
> AE?

United Arab Emirates.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

>> AE?
>
>United Arab Emirates.

Thanks. I assumed University of ... Alabama East? ??? The context
suggested to me that the U was for University ...

Bethany

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Bought a Sniffer
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:03:26 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>I think I failed to report that I bought a Sniffer yesterday.  Wait --
>that's not the name -- a Swiffer?  a Swisher?  a Swifler?  a Sniffler?
>One of those mop things with papers.  I'm hoping it will help with
>pawprints.
>
>I need to GWTP.  There is much to be done today.  Will let y'all know
>how the Sthing works out.

I bought one too. I like the concept, but I think after I use up the cleaner
that it comes with, I'll replace the jug with something else. I like the
mop, and I like the way the swiffer things work, but I find the cleaner
dulling.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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Dear WORDS-L:

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Janet Hardy wrote:
> Horizontal versions? Wouldn't one get trampled?
>
> Janet
Ah, it takes me back! In '68, my dad let the youth group hold a dance in
the basement of the church (one of the members was in a band that did
covers of The Rolling Stones and the Doors). At the bottom of the rules
posted at the entrance: No Dancing On The Floor.

That was for the part of, say, the twist, where you sort of limbo-danced
until you were pretty much lying down. The Alligator, you say? rings a
bell...

Of course, the entire religious spectrum in town re-sorted itself;
Baptists became those who couldn't imagine having a dance in the church,
and Methodists became those who trusted the minister's judgment, the kids,
or both.

By the way, this is my first day on the list. Is there some sort of
introduction I should give?


> >Janet writes,
> >
> >>One of the local high schools is attempting to ban something called
> >>"freak dancing" -- which I gather is a teenager's attempt to move
> >>like a Mitchell Bros. peepshow girl -- from school dances. Should be
> >>a very interesting ban to try to enforce.
> >
> >I've been seeing it in the Mercury News.  Consists of full-contact
> >simulated sex, in both vertical and horizontal versions, according to the
> >stories there.
>
>
***************************************************************
Carolyn Ostrander                       clostran@syr.edu
Syracuse University Honors Program      http://honors.syr.edu

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Subject: Re: Report from the hick in the sticks
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I'd say if you are *reading* news, you pretty much fall within the
definition of "cosmopolitan" - i.e. cenceptually, a citizen of the world.
Read on to see why I say that -

On Tue, 25 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Sylvia Edwards wrote:
> > MY point = Hicks are not as cosmopolitan as you are.
>
> I can't help but laugh at the thought that I'm cosmopolitan.  But I'm
> not sure that being cosmopolitan has much to do with whether one can
> read and reason.  Don't hicks read the same news as cosmopolitans?
> Can't they figure out...

No, actually "hicks" - and a host of others - don't read the same news as
cosmopolitans, or watch the same TV. Many people are uncomfortable with
the slick, business-like appearance of suited newscasters, for instance,
(due to class or city/rural implications), and rarely watch local evening
news - the least intellectual and least explanatory of the news programs.
They also don't watch CNN, or have any other paper delivered than the
Sunday paper, in which they read comics, coupons, and local news. Where
do they get their notion of what's going on in the world? Primarily from
the aunt or grandmother who does watch the local newscast, or the guy in
the local bar who has a political opinion.

Just to report the experience and outlook of my neighbors, family friends,
and some relatives.

Oh - and don't forget that a lot of people who *have* a pretty solid
education and *could* understand logic if they felt like it, just don't
feel like going through the mental exercise - life is centered around
getting kids to babysitters, going to work, managing the career and the
marriage, and a little socializing in bars. Even parents of draft-age sons
seem to be more caught up in local concerns than in understanding the
implications for the future.

btw, my daughter in the UK says the reports of this are slanted
differently in CNN than in Britain; I pass it on for what it's worth:
<http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2798651.stm>

Carolyn Ostrander

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At 08:09 AM 2/26/2003 -0500, carolyn o. wrote:

>By the way, this is my first day on the list. Is there some sort of
>introduction I should give?

Not unless you believe it important.  By your posts shall ye be
known.  Welcome.

cwv

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>
> By the way, this is my first day on the list. Is there some sort of
> introduction I should give?

> ***************************************************************
> Carolyn Ostrander                       clostran@syr.edu
> Syracuse University Honors Program      http://honors.syr.edu


Yay!   Welcome to the list!

Y'all better be nice to this woman.  Don't make me sorry that I told her about you.

:-)


BrP

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At 09:09 AM 2/26/2003 -0500, BrP wrote:

>Y'all better be nice to this woman.  Don't make me sorry that I told her
>about you.

I figured as much.

By the way, how big a place is LeMoyne College?

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 08:23:02 2003
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> At 09:09 AM 2/26/2003 -0500, BrP wrote:
>
> >Y'all better be nice to this woman.  Don't make me sorry that I told her
> >about you.
>
> I figured as much.
>
> By the way, how big a place is LeMoyne College?
>
> cwv

I think the student body is at around 2000 and growing now.

I live about five blocks from the campus.

Why?


BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 08:49:28 2003
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At 09:19 AM 2/26/2003 -0500, BrP wrote:

>I think the student body is at around 2000 and growing now.
>
>I live about five blocks from the campus.

A friend from my refereeing days is Assistant to the President there.  He
formerly was at Gonzaga, then on sabbatical, then in Lexington KY, then I
lost track of him until the other day.  He is S.J.

cwv

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Natalie Maynor wrote:  Or is SlimFast
> like grapefruit or whatever it is that the myth claims to take away
> calories?

That is what I thought. Obviously I am dumb. But is Slimfast cheaper
than the Ensure-type things?

alyce

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 08:58:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 6:01:14 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
> Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>> Rita:
>>> Juliet might arise, they dissected why "things are
>>> different" now for teenagers, how I just couldn't understand
>>> what dating is like for them, and furthermore, how it would
>>> be impossible for me to get a date now.  Apparently, I lack
>>> something called "pimp juice."  It was all way too hilarious.
>>
>>
>> You're not wearing enough bling-bling, maybe?
>>

>         This is one of the problems they brought up, yes.

I thought someone else would do this before now, but... WHAT IS
BLING-BLING??!!

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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Sylvia Edwards wrote:
 The song writer is not as smart as you
> are, and neither are some of my students. But I'm afraid they represent
> the majority opinion around me right now.  Because of 9/11, they justify
> a war with Iraq.  They are NOT concerned about the geography.

Do you ever correct their wrong geographical notions? Or do you just let
them go?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 09:12:00 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Karen:

>I thought someone else would do this before now, but... WHAT IS
>BLING-BLING??!!

The big, shiny jewelry favored by the hip-hop/rap generation
to show they've made it. (For the Dennis Kozlowskis it's a
$5000 shower curtain.)

-rashmi



_________________________________________________________________
Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:28:15 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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= I thought someone else would do this before now, but... WHAT IS
= BLING-BLING??!!
=

You know why I didn't?  Because I don't CARE!!!

(there, I feel better now)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 09:33:41 2003
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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 9:28:15 AM, steph wrote:

> = I thought someone else would do this before now, but... WHAT IS
> = BLING-BLING??!!
> =

> You know why I didn't?  Because I don't CARE!!!

> (there, I feel better now)

Did you know we have Fresh Meat? Maybe Carolyn will go to Namibia
with you.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 09:34:18 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:30:48 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 9:08:24 AM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>>I thought someone else would do this before now, but... WHAT IS
>>BLING-BLING??!!

> The big, shiny jewelry favored by the hip-hop/rap generation
> to show they've made it. (For the Dennis Kozlowskis it's a
> $5000 shower curtain.)

Ick.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 09:47:28 2003
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At 04:28 PM 2/26/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>= I thought someone else would do this before now, but... WHAT IS
>= BLING-BLING??!!
>=
>
>You know why I didn't?  Because I don't CARE!!!
>
>(there, I feel better now)

And, you're supposed to add,   "So there!"

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 09:50:03 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:46:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 9:34:01 AM, Betty Clark wrote:

> At 04:28 PM 2/26/2003 +0100, steph wrote:
>>= I thought someone else would do this before now, but... WHAT IS
>>= BLING-BLING??!!
>>=
>>
>>You know why I didn't?  Because I don't CARE!!!
>>
>>(there, I feel better now)

> And, you're supposed to add,   "So there!"

I think Theo cornered the market on that particular expression.

We're still iced in; it's only 30 degrees.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 09:50:37 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:48:17 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 09:30:13AM -0600
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Karen Kay:
= Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 9:28:15 AM, steph wrote:
=
= > = I thought someone else would do this before now, but... WHAT IS
= > = BLING-BLING??!!
= > =
=
= > You know why I didn't?  Because I don't CARE!!!
=
= > (there, I feel better now)
=
= Did you know we have Fresh Meat? Maybe Carolyn will go to Namibia
= with you.
=

I saw.  Does this mean I have to behave myself?  I stifled a
response to "Clive" that wasn't very nice for just that reason
(well, and the one that it wasn't very nice).

Besides, I'm going to Namibia with Rashmi and Betty and Janet.
Carolyn can't compete with that on day one.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 10:13:20 2003
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Namibia?
When, where, and why?
*pondering Fresh Meat designation*
Thanks for the warm welcome... feeling a little shivery, and
not entirely sure it's the weather.
clo

Karen Kay wrote:

> Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 9:28:15 AM, steph wrote:
> > (there, I feel better now)
>
> Did you know we have Fresh Meat? Maybe Carolyn will go to Namibia
> with you.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 10:34:57 2003
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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: It's a proven fact
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 9:48:17 AM, steph wrote:
> I saw.  Does this mean I have to behave myself?  I stifled a
> response to "Clive" that wasn't very nice for just that reason
> (well, and the one that it wasn't very nice).

I don't think you have to behave yourself. She's heard what we're
like from My Evil Twin.

> Besides, I'm going to Namibia with Rashmi and Betty and Janet.
> Carolyn can't compete with that on day one.

Sorry, I didn't realize it was a competition.

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:32:47 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 9:59:36 AM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> Namibia?
> When, where, and why?

Because it's there and they haven't been, as far as I can tell.

> *pondering Fresh Meat designation*
> Thanks for the warm welcome... feeling a little shivery, and
> not entirely sure it's the weather.

Sorry, I meant it in the warmest possible way!

Karen
"Walking thus within each other’s/Particular knowing and delight."
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 10:39:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:36:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
>
> On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> >United Arab Emirates.
>
> Thanks. I assumed University of ... Alabama East? ??? The context
> suggested to me that the U was for University ...

Yes, I realized that when I read your question.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:41:14 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:

> I bought one too. I like the concept, but I think after I use up the cleaner
> that it comes with, I'll replace the jug with something else. I like the
> mop, and I like the way the swiffer things work, but I find the cleaner
> dulling.

I noticed the dulling also.  It did a prettier job on the kitchen floor
than on the hardwood.  How often do you hit the squirt button?  And do
you use a new pad every time?  I assumed that that was what you were
supposed to do -- use a new one every time you pulled the swiffer out,
but it occurred to me yesterday that that would mean going through boxes
of pads very quickly if you have muddy pawprints.  It seems wasteful
somehow to throw away one of those fancy pads after doing just a tiny
job with it.  I threw away the first one but then didn't pull off the
one I used yesterday for just a quicky right before the party.  I'll see
how it goes using the used one.

Let me know if you replace the fluid with something else, how it works,
and what you replaced it with.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:45:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 10:41:14 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> It seems wasteful somehow to throw away one of those fancy pads
> after doing just a tiny job with it. I threw away the first one
> but then didn't pull off the one I used yesterday for just a
> quicky right before the party. I'll see how it goes using the
> used one.

I bought a mop a few years ago that has the large surface area
head of the new mops, but it takes a terry cloth cover that I can
toss in the washing machine when I'm done. It was expensive, but
I like it, though I still have to use a scrubbrush on some parts.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 10:49:33 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:

>  The Alligator, you say? rings a
> bell...

Simulated sex while prostrate on the dancefloor -- but with a slight
space between the top person and the bottom person.  What do you do in
the Syracuse Honors Program?  Do you ever go to conferences with Honor
Program directors from various places?  If so, find Jack White and ask
him to do the alligator with you.  He and I once entertained some grad
students by demonstrating it at a party.

> Of course, the entire religious spectrum in town re-sorted itself;
> Baptists became those who couldn't imagine having a dance in the church,
> and Methodists became those who trusted the minister's judgment, the kids,
> or both.

The Methodist church I grew up in had dances for teenagers in the church
basement.

> By the way, this is my first day on the list. Is there some sort of
> introduction I should give?

As much or little as you choose.  You will soon be asked about chickens
and perhaps eggslots, however.  Answering is obligatory.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>
> Namibia?
> When, where, and why?
> *pondering Fresh Meat designation*
> Thanks for the warm welcome... feeling a little shivery, and
> not entirely sure it's the weather.

It is the weather. Honest.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:47:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 5:07:55 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
> Apparently, I lack something called "pimp juice."

What is pimp juice?

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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steph wrote:

> Besides, I'm going to Namibia with Rashmi and Betty and Janet.

I thought this was to be a whole list fest.  Is that not true?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:50:35 -0600
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 10:40:20 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> It is the weather. Honest.

It's 31. It's supposed to go up to 45. I need to go to the store
at some point, so this is going to be very exciting.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:54:33 -0700
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> Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> > Thanks for the warm welcome... feeling a little shivery, and
> > not entirely sure it's the weather.

    Be afraid.  Be very afraid.

JMW

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:59:07 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 4:27:31 PM, Terry Wild wrote:
>> I keep reminding myself that I am VERY glad not to be living in a
>> log cabin.

> Ummm,  our log cabin has done fine.

I meant an old-time log cabin. With mud to fill the chinks. I
almost typed 'or a covered wagon', but it didn't make much sense.

Somewhere near Springfield, IL, there's a place that has the
house that Abraham Lincoln was born in. That's kind of what I was
thinking of.

>   When we were in those teens and single
> digits, the downstairs proved a bit chilly - 58, so we lit the fireplace
> and and were toasty in no time.  In fact by afternoon, it was getting a bit
> too warm.

58 is FREEZING to me, for an indoor temperature. About ten
degrees below where I'm comfortable. Yes, I'm a wimp.

> It will be in the 20s all week here.  We're having a 'real' winter here.

Here, too. I'm afraid to go outside and see what's dead. All
those optimistic plants!

I had A Viewing of the cat this morning. She still doesn't want
to come in, but she was happy to accept tribute of some food and
a petting.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 10:54:33 AM, John Williams wrote:

>> Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>> > Thanks for the warm welcome... feeling a little shivery, and
>> > not entirely sure it's the weather.

>     Be afraid.  Be very afraid.

Paranoia-feeder!!!!

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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Carolyn:
> > By the way, this is my first day on the list. Is there some sort of
> > introduction I should give?
>
> As much or little as you choose.  You will soon be asked about chickens
> and perhaps eggslots, however.  Answering is obligatory.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

May I, on behalf of the list, ask the traditional questions?

Carolyn, have you ever seen a headless chicken?  If so, you must relate details of
its behavior.

How many egg slots does your refrigerator have? (I've seen it, but I don't remember)

BrP

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 4:27:31 PM, Terry Wild wrote:
> >> I keep reminding myself that I am VERY glad not to be living in a
> >> log cabin.
>
> > Ummm,  our log cabin has done fine.
>
> I meant an old-time log cabin. With mud to fill the chinks. I
> almost typed 'or a covered wagon', but it didn't make much sense.
>
> Somewhere near Springfield, IL, there's a place that has the
> house that Abraham Lincoln was born in. That's kind of what I was
> thinking of.


Nuh uh

AL was born in Hardin County, Kentucky


:-)

BrP

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Honors Program - Academic Advisor, data coordinator, and
pain in the visionary a**. The Jack White I know is an artist,
here in Syracuse. But I do go to NCHC, w/ Honors Dreictors
from various places. Where is Jack from?
clo

Natalie Maynor wrote:

> clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:
>
> >  The Alligator, you say? rings a
> > bell...
>
> Simulated sex while prostrate on the dancefloor -- but with a slight
> space between the top person and the bottom person.  What do you do in
> the Syracuse Honors Program?  Do you ever go to conferences with Honor
> Program directors from various places?  If so, find Jack White and ask
> him to do the alligator with you.  He and I once entertained some grad
> students by demonstrating it at a party.

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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 11:04:00 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>> Somewhere near Springfield, IL, there's a place that has the
>> house that Abraham Lincoln was born in. That's kind of what I was
>> thinking of.


> Nuh uh

> AL was born in Hardin County, Kentucky


> :-)

This is a... I can't remember what it's called. One of those
artificial places that has building from the same period pulled
to make a village. Like Meiji-Mura near Nagoya. Maybe it's called
Lincoln village. But his house is most definitely there, no
matter where he was born. And yes, I knew he was born in
Kentucky.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 11:18:55 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:13:14 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>  And do
> you use a new pad every time?  I assumed that that was what you were
> supposed to do --

The manufacturer will love you if you do, but you do not have to throw
it away until it is worn out.

alyce

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> It's 31. It's supposed to go up to 45. I need to go to the store
> at some point, so this is going to be very exciting.

The doors of my Blazer are frozen shut so I could not go to the p.o.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:20:38 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 11:15:08 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> The doors of my Blazer are frozen shut so I could not go to the p.o.

Oh, goody. I didn't even think about that possibility.

It's up to 31 now. I think I'll make a stop to buy a zipper for
my winter coat.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 11:24:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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http://www.greedwear.com/

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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At 10:59 AM 2/26/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 4:27:31 PM, Terry Wild wrote:
> >> I keep reminding myself that I am VERY glad not to be living in a
> >> log cabin.
>
> > Ummm,  our log cabin has done fine.
>
>I meant an old-time log cabin. With mud to fill the chinks. I
>almost typed 'or a covered wagon', but it didn't make much sense.

I really like the Wild's log cabin.  I love the openness of the great room
downstairs.

Betty

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 09:36:11 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Don't bother...
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>  > >  > And Kate Winslet needs to be seriously smacked.
>>  >
>>  >But I wonder if you saw my grandson among
>>  >the extras?  The movie isn't here yet, but when
>>  >I do see it I know some scenes to watch for
>>  >in case he made it past the cutting room floor.
>>
>>  There were quite a few crowd scenes with pro- and anti-death penalty
>  > protesters. Was he in one of those?
>
>Yes he was.  And in one scene Kate Winslet runs
>into the crowd and runs right into him.  He thought
>I'd see him for sure if they leave that scene in.

There is such a scene very near the end. Hope he turns up in it.

Janet

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Arbys r00ls
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:01:57 +0000
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I realized last night that my wallet was missing. I couldn't
find it around the house and figured I'd left it at work and
would find it when I came in this morning. Cut to the chase,
no wallet anywhere. Last time I remembered seeing it was at
lunch Monday at Arby's. I went back there just now and they
still had it - two days later.

I'm psyched!!! YaY for the good folk at Arbys.

-rashmi



_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 12:11:16 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:07:45 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 12:01:57 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> I realized last night that my wallet was missing. I couldn't
> find it around the house and figured I'd left it at work and
> would find it when I came in this morning. Cut to the chase,
> no wallet anywhere. Last time I remembered seeing it was at
> lunch Monday at Arby's. I went back there just now and they
> still had it - two days later.

> I'm psyched!!! YaY for the good folk at Arbys.

Jeeze, Rashmi. You're turning into me!

I'm glad you found it. Not only YaY for Arby's, but YaY for
whoever turned it in.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:09:53 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: frozen dinner
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>Natalie Maynor wrote:  Or is SlimFast
>>  like grapefruit or whatever it is that the myth claims to take away
>>  calories?
>
>That is what I thought. Obviously I am dumb. But is Slimfast cheaper
>than the Ensure-type things?

OK, you got me curious. Here's the pertinent nutritional data on SlimFast:
$1.32/serving ($1/serving if you buy the Safeway house brand)
220 calories
3g fat
40g carbs
10g protein

On Ensure:
$1.16/serving
250 calories
6g fat
40g carbs
9g protein

On Carnation Instant Breakfast, mixed with 1 cup whole milk:
$0.98 for powder, $0.36 for milk
225 calories
8g fat
26g carbs
14g protein

On Ovaltine, mixed with 1 cup whole milk:
[couldn't figure cost for powder, as serving size not listed on
website, but it's substantially cheaper than any of the above --
$0.33 per ounce], $0.36 for milk
236 calories
9g fat
30g carbs
9g protein

Looks to me like for weight gain, Ovaltine and milk is the hands-down
winner cost-wise. Use it to wash down a good multivitamin tablet and
you're good to go.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 12:20:11 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:16:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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http://www.state.il.us/HPA/hs/Log.htm

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 12:20:22 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:16:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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This is what I was thinking of:
http://dnr.state.il.us/lands/Landmgt/PARKS/R3/FOX/LINCOLN.HTM

It doesn't say how the log cabin got to IL.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:20:48 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, February 25, 2003, 9:48:44 AM, Espen Ore wrote:
> 08:02 25.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>>I keep reminding myself that I am VERY glad not to be living in a
>>log cabin.

> Log cabins can be warm and good:

> <http://home.no.net/espenore/2001/sornesset.jpg>

These pictures *almost* make me think positively about winter.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 12:39:42 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 10:37:42 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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>Namibia?
>When, where, and why?
>*pondering Fresh Meat designation*
>Thanks for the warm welcome... feeling a little shivery, and
>not entirely sure it's the weather.
>clo

Do people call you Carolyn, or clo? I think clo is kind of cool...

Of course, on this list, mem is mem; I have to think twice to
remember his real name.

Janet
(wondering how to pronounce jwh -- jwuh?)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 12:48:53 2003
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>
> Janet
> (wondering how to pronounce jwh -- jwuh?)


It's so close to the unpronounceable name in Genesis that perhaps you shouldn't try.

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:13:19 2003
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KK is certainly new to New England.

They recently put two in Ct. Those were the first New England shops. They
have been causing traffic back ups in their areas and most residents are
not at all pleased about it.

The first Massacheusetts KK is going on about 1.5 miles from my house.
Based on the CT. Traffic problems, I think this area is going to be a
nightmare for quite some time.

As for the donuts, I've had them 2-3 times in my life but never hot.
They're good but I will not wait in line for over and hour for a donut.
There's very little in life I will wait that long for.

lisa

At 05:28 PM 2/24/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> > I bet Homer (my hero) was drooling over a Dunkin Donut. I can
> > scarf those down. It's KKs I don't care for.
>
>Are KKs new?  It seems to me I've heard of them for many years.  I'm
>also trying to remember what the two American donut chains in Japan were
>(or at least the two I noticed -- maybe there were others).  One of them
>was Dunkin Donut.  But there was another one that I always got mixed up
>with DD -- another one that my mind associated with it.  Sometimes
>friends would arrange to meet in front of one of these donut places near
>my apartment, and we'd sometimes get the name mixed up in the planning
>-- saying Dunkin Donuts when it was really the other one or vice versa.
>What's another chain that I might get easily mixed up with Dunkin Donut?
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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At 09:19 PM 2/24/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>I do regret having missed Simon and Garfunkel; if I'd known they were going
>to do the opening, I might have been tempted to tune in for a few minutes.
>
>Ken Miller
>Musical Correspondent
>The Lostin Times

You didn't miss much. They were terrible. It was painful listening to them.
They were out of tune and their harmony sucked. I was embarrassed for them.

lisa

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At 05:38 PM 2/24/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Monday, February 24, 2003, 5:28:30 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > Are KKs new?  It seems to me I've heard of them for many years.
>
>They were a Southern thing for many years. KK's arrived in CA
>before they came to Austin, though.
>
> > What's another chain that I might get easily mixed up with Dunkin Donut?
>
>I'm not sure I ever saw a Dunkin Donuts. There's Mistah Donuts,
>but I don't know if they are an American chain.
>
>Ohayooo, Mistah Donuts, Konnichi wa, Mistah Donuts...
>
>Karen

We had a few Mister (I don't remember it being spelled Mistah in CT but
that doesn't mean it wasn't) Donuts in CT when I was a kid. I haven't seen
one in something close to 20 years though.

lisa

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: FW: Dell Computer: Emergency closing in Austin
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:11:56 -0500
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Be careful Karen.





>Folks-
>
>We've received notice from Dell that Austin, TX is experiencing
>emergency weather conditions --their first ice storm in more than 5
>years .  As such, they are having a number of operational delays
>which include late openings/early closings of their facilities.  It
>is likely that they may close operations altogether today until the
>storm subsides.
>

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Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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In a message dated 2/26/2003 7:58:21 AM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< I thought someone else would do this before now, but... WHAT IS

BLING-BLING??!!

 >>

Thanks for asking. I didn't want to appear ignorant about today's fashion!!
Theo

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:19:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 1:11:56 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:

> Be careful Karen.





>>Folks-
>>
>>We've received notice from Dell that Austin, TX is experiencing
>>emergency weather conditions --their first ice storm in more than 5
>>years .  As such, they are having a number of operational delays
>>which include late openings/early closings of their facilities.  It
>>is likely that they may close operations altogether today until the
>>storm subsides.
>>

Wasn't this yesterday?

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:21:32 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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            <3E5C03CA.4090005@swbell.net>
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Natalie Maynor:
= steph wrote:
=
= > Besides, I'm going to Namibia with Rashmi and Betty and Janet.
=
= I thought this was to be a whole list fest.  Is that not true?
=
= --
=  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

It is.  Anyone can come.  The more the merrier!  Are you coming
with us?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:27:51 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:25:26 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: How long is too long?
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Karen Kay:
=
= Somewhere near Springfield, IL, there's a place that has the
= house that Abraham Lincoln was born in. That's kind of what I was
= thinking of.
=

I've been there!  On a seventh grade field trip!  I even got a
brass bust of Lincoln to go with my brass Eiffel tower, both
which are now long lost.

= Here, too. I'm afraid to go outside and see what's dead. All
= those optimistic plants!
=

Whereas here it is getting a little warm again.  It was
positively balmy today, like 12 or something.

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: FW: Dell Computer: Emergency closing in Austin
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:24:43 -0500
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>
>Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 1:11:56 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
>
>> Be careful Karen.
>
>
>
>
>
>>>Folks-
>>>
>>>We've received notice from Dell that Austin, TX is experiencing
>>>emergency weather conditions --their first ice storm in more than 5
>>>years .  As such, they are having a number of operational delays
>>>which include late openings/early closings of their facilities.  It
>>>is likely that they may close operations altogether today until the
>>>storm subsides.
>>>
>
>Wasn't this yesterday?
>
>Karen
>"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
>--ET
>

Not according to weather.com. Freezing drizzle.


alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:28:58 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:15:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, lisa alfieri wrote:

>They recently put two in Ct. Those were the first New England shops. They
>have been causing traffic back ups in their areas and most residents are
>not at all pleased about it.

Um, is that not contradictory?

Bethany

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:26:06 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 1:25:26 PM, steph wrote:
> I've been there!  On a seventh grade field trip!  I even got a
> brass bust of Lincoln to go with my brass Eiffel tower, both
> which are now long lost.

I didn't get a brass bust of Lincoln, but I do have a brass
Eiffel Tower still.

> Whereas here it is getting a little warm again.  It was
> positively balmy today, like 12 or something.

Well, it's above freezing, so I guess I'll go outside...

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:27:20 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: How long is too long?
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=
= Nuh uh
=
= AL was born in Hardin County, Kentucky
=
=
= :-)
=

Ok, lived in, grew up in, something.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:30:43 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 13:27:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: FW: Dell Computer: Emergency closing in Austin
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 1:24:43 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:

>>
>>Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 1:11:56 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
>>
>>> Be careful Karen.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Folks-
>>>>
>>>>We've received notice from Dell that Austin, TX is experiencing
>>>>emergency weather conditions --their first ice storm in more than 5
>>>>years .  As such, they are having a number of operational delays
>>>>which include late openings/early closings of their facilities.  It
>>>>is likely that they may close operations altogether today until the
>>>>storm subsides.
>>>>
>>
>>Wasn't this yesterday?
>>
>>Karen
>>"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
>>--ET
>>

> Not according to weather.com. Freezing drizzle.

Not yet. Later on. Probably just in time for people leaving work.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:33:10 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:28:58 -0500
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Subject: Re: How long is too long?
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>
> Whereas here it is getting a little warm again.  It was
> positively balmy today, like 12 or something.

We're in the 20s - but it was -5 when I got up this morning.  It's days like this when I
envy my cat who can curl up with a furry tail to cover her cold nose.


BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:35:08 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:32:45 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: Arbys r00ls
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=
= I'm psyched!!! YaY for the good folk at Arbys.
=
= -rashmi
=

This is cool.  I've had to go through the whole lost wallet
scenario a couple of times and it is NO FUN.

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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 1:28:58 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> We're in the 20s - but it was -5 when I got up this morning.  It's days like this when I
> envy my cat who can curl up with a furry tail to cover her cold nose.

But you're in Lysistrata! I thought you had the <equipment> to go
with it!

Damn, I'm disappointed...

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:36:14 2003
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Alec Plotkin (plotkina@isc.upenn.edu) has sent you a news article. (Email address has not been verified.)
------------------------------------------------------------
Personal message:

Syracuse in the funny papers.

Charity Charged in Sending Funds to Iraq
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030226/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/charity_arrests

============================================================
Yahoo! News http://dailynews.yahoo.com/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:39:49 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> > Whereas here it is getting a little warm again.  It was
> > positively balmy today, like 12 or something.
>
> We're in the 20s - but it was -5 when I got up this morning.  It's days like this when I
> envy my cat who can curl up with a furry tail to cover her cold nose.
>
>
> BrP



Horrors - responding to my own post

I'm having a nostalgia moment.  One of the games my son and I used to play was to
imagine one change in human anatomy and then extrapolate endlessly about how
societ would be different.  I remember many discussions about the "tail fashion
industry"

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:40:45 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:38:15 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: words-l <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: the housecleaner and the cat
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We suspected it, but we weren't sure.

Now we're sure.

Our house cleaner Estella, is cleaning the cat, too.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:41:16 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:37:13 -0500
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> Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 1:28:58 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> > We're in the 20s - but it was -5 when I got up this morning.  It's days like this when I
> > envy my cat who can curl up with a furry tail to cover her cold nose.
>
> But you're in Lysistrata! I thought you had the <equipment> to go
> with it!
>
> Damn, I'm disappointed...


alas it's only a prop



>
> Karen
> "...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
> --ET


BrP
(I haven't told my new cousin the monkey story yet)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:48:08 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:43:23 -0500
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I had not heard this on the local news.  I'll have to tune in at 6.

Hmmm.  When I talked to Tina the other night she was saying that there had been
major arrests in Portland - where she lives now and Buffalo - where she went to
college.


BrP



> Alec Plotkin (plotkina@isc.upenn.edu) has sent you a news article. (Email address has not been verified.)
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Personal message:
>
> Syracuse in the funny papers.
>
> Charity Charged in Sending Funds to Iraq
> http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030226/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/charity_arrests
>
> ============================================================
> Yahoo! News http://dailynews.yahoo.com/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 13:49:14 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:44:56 -0500
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Subject: Re: the housecleaner and the cat
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> We suspected it, but we weren't sure.
>
> Now we're sure.
>
> Our house cleaner Estella, is cleaning the cat, too.

seems like that should be a euphemism for something


BrP

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:52:01 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: the housecleaner and the cat
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Did you see those girls?  They were cleaning the cat!  He he.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 14:03:45 2003
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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

>> Our house cleaner Estella, is cleaning the cat, too.
>
>seems like that should be a euphemism for something

like clean your clock?

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 14:05:26 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:01:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 1:38:15 PM, steph wrote:
> We suspected it, but we weren't sure.

> Now we're sure.

> Our house cleaner Estella, is cleaning the cat, too.

HOW?

I need to know.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 14:38:52 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:35:10 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To run some errands. If you don't hear from me again, I slid to
an icy death.

Things are pretty much melting now, but my lawn and driveway are
an ice field, though my front walk is clear. My tulips, iris, and
narcissus are totally wilted. I forgot to check the lavender(s).

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 15:01:22 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:56:50 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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I think my sister uses a hardy brand of papertowels (this is for the
dry variety). I am thinking handiwipes might work for the wet.
clo

alyce cresap wrote:

> Natalie Maynor wrote:
> >  And do
> > you use a new pad every time?  I assumed that that was what you were
> > supposed to do --
>
> The manufacturer will love you if you do, but you do not have to throw
> it away until it is worn out.
>
> alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 15:04:28 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 22:02:05 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: the housecleaner and the cat
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             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Wed, Feb 26, 2003 at 02:01:57PM -0600
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Karen Kay:
= Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 1:38:15 PM, steph wrote:
= > We suspected it, but we weren't sure.
=
= > Now we're sure.
=
= > Our house cleaner Estella, is cleaning the cat, too.
=
= HOW?
=
= I need to know.
=

I don't know.  Murph just has dry skin, and because he's an
indoor cat he's always shedding.  So dirty is a relative term
here.  We've done all matter of injustices to him in the last few
months, from wiping him with a damp paper towel, using a slightly
wetter washcloth, soaping him up with a bar of soap and using a
damp towel to rinse him, all the way to the full blown soaking
and shampoo.  He was ok with all but the last.

Probably just the damp paper towel.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 15:05:00 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 15:59:45 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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Mr. Donut?
They used to be all over the place; I haven't seen one in years.
clo


> At 05:28 PM 2/24/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> >
> > > I bet Homer (my hero) was drooling over a Dunkin Donut. I can
> > > scarf those down. It's KKs I don't care for.
> >
> >Are KKs new?  It seems to me I've heard of them for many years.  I'm
> >also trying to remember what the two American donut chains in Japan were
> >(or at least the two I noticed -- maybe there were others).  One of them
> >was Dunkin Donut.  But there was another one that I always got mixed up
> >with DD -- another one that my mind associated with it.  Sometimes
> >friends would arrange to meet in front of one of these donut places near
> >my apartment, and we'd sometimes get the name mixed up in the planning
> >-- saying Dunkin Donuts when it was really the other one or vice versa.
> >What's another chain that I might get easily mixed up with Dunkin Donut?
> >
> >--
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 15:14:04 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:07:27 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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Ah. The headless chicken. Despite many opportunities that almost
offered themselves (parents, siblings, and random acquaintances
who slaughtered fowl), I have never seen a chicken (or any other
vertebrate) without a head. Sorry to disappoint.

As for eggslots, Paul, you guessed the correct number already:
0.
But then, it's not my fridge. It was there when we moved in, and
will be there when we are gone.

by the way, if you say Carolyn, I probably won't know to whom
you refer. I usually go by my initials online -  just call me "clo"

I also go by "Sunshine Greeley", but that's another story, and
anyway, it's much too long to type.
clo

"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:

> Carolyn:
> > > By the way, this is my first day on the list. Is there some sort of
> > > introduction I should give?
> >
> > As much or little as you choose.  You will soon be asked about chickens
> > and perhaps eggslots, however.  Answering is obligatory.
> >
> > --
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> May I, on behalf of the list, ask the traditional questions?
>
> Carolyn, have you ever seen a headless chicken?  If so, you must relate details of
> its behavior.
>
> How many egg slots does your refrigerator have? (I've seen it, but I don't remember)
>
> BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 15:14:18 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:06:45 -0500
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>
> I don't know.  Murph just has dry skin, and because he's an
> indoor cat he's always shedding.  So dirty is a relative term
> here.  We've done all matter of injustices to him in the last few
> months, from wiping him with a damp paper towel, using a slightly
> wetter washcloth, soaping him up with a bar of soap and using a
> damp towel to rinse him, all the way to the full blown soaking
> and shampoo.  He was ok with all but the last.
>
> Probably just the damp paper towel.

Have you tried the microwave?

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 15:24:17 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> Ah. The headless chicken. Despite many opportunities that almost
> offered themselves (parents, siblings, and random acquaintances
> who slaughtered fowl), I have never seen a chicken (or any other
> vertebrate) without a head. Sorry to disappoint.
>
> As for eggslots, Paul, you guessed the correct number already:
> 0.
> But then, it's not my fridge. It was there when we moved in, and
> will be there when we are gone.
>
> by the way, if you say Carolyn, I probably won't know to whom
> you refer. I usually go by my initials online -  just call me "clo"
>
> I also go by "Sunshine Greeley", but that's another story, and
> anyway, it's much too long to type.
> clo




see I knew she was wordsler material

BrP

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You don't have enough winter for a dogsled - perhaps a catsled...


BrP




> To run some errands. If you don't hear from me again, I slid to
> an icy death.
>
> Things are pretty much melting now, but my lawn and driveway are
> an ice field, though my front walk is clear. My tulips, iris, and
> narcissus are totally wilted. I forgot to check the lavender(s).
>
> Karen
> "I am, we are,
> Who can distinguish us?"
>  --Deena Metzger

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= >
= > Probably just the damp paper towel.
=
= Have you tried the microwave?
=
= BrP

He doesn't fit into the microwave!  I just got back a roll of
film with the first pictures I've taken of Murph.  I have major
scanning to do.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 15:49:30 2003
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            <3E5C2C79.BF05B31E@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>  The song writer is not as smart as you
> > are, and neither are some of my students. But I'm afraid they represent
> > the majority opinion around me right now.  Because of 9/11, they justify
> > a war with Iraq.  They are NOT concerned about the geography.
>
> Do you ever correct their wrong geographical notions? Or do you just let
> them go?

Usually the Palestinian student sitting next to me and I just roll our
eyes and shake our heads.  I'm NOT included in the informal chit chat
discussions.   I'd say something if geography came up in "official"
class discussion, but I keep out of their phatic dribble.
--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 16:07:49 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Bought a Sniffer
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:04:09 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>>
>I noticed the dulling also.  It did a prettier job on the kitchen floor
>than on the hardwood.

Exactly.

How often do you hit the squirt button?

It's a zen thing.

And do
>you use a new pad every time?

No way. Only change it when it gets nasty.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 16:08:49 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:05:06 -0500
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>From: Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM>
>I find the word tunafish extremely unpleasant. What's wrong with plain ole
>tuna sandwiches?

Here's a dead fish. I call them "tuna salad sandwiches".

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 16:10:45 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Arbys r00ls
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:07:06 -0500
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>From: Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM>
>I realized last night that my wallet was missing. I couldn't
>find it around the house and figured I'd left it at work and
>would find it when I came in this morning. Cut to the chase,
>no wallet anywhere. Last time I remembered seeing it was at
>lunch Monday at Arby's. I went back there just now and they
>still had it - two days later.
>
>I'm psyched!!! YaY for the good folk at Arbys.

You had lunch at Arby's?

Is Arby's everywhere. I thought they got sucked up by Roy Rogers.

Marie

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Subject: Re: frozen dinner
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            <a05200f05ba82abe8ba8b@[67.118.125.98]>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> On Ensure:
> $1.16/serving
> 250 calories
> 6g fat
> 40g carbs
> 9g protein

But Ensure Plus has 350 calories. $1.37 serving approx.
Just as easy to drink 350 calories as 250, although there is 21 cents
difference.

alyce
alyce
>
> On Carnation Instant Breakfast, mixed with 1 cup whole milk:
> $0.98 for powder, $0.36 for milk
> 225 calories
> 8g fat
> 26g carbs
> 14g protein
>
> On Ovaltine, mixed with 1 cup whole milk:
> [couldn't figure cost for powder, as serving size not listed on
> website, but it's substantially cheaper than any of the above --
> $0.33 per ounce], $0.36 for milk
> 236 calories
> 9g fat
> 30g carbs
> 9g protein
>
> Looks to me like for weight gain, Ovaltine and milk is the hands-down
> winner cost-wise. Use it to wash down a good multivitamin tablet and
> you're good to go.
>
> Janet


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 16:19:16 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 14:17:09 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: frozen dinner
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>>
>>  On Ensure:
>>  $1.16/serving
>>  250 calories
>>  6g fat
>>  40g carbs
>>  9g protein
>
>But Ensure Plus has 350 calories. $1.37 serving approx.
>Just as easy to drink 350 calories as 250, although there is 21 cents
>difference.

Good point; I didn't think to look at Ensure Plus.

You could also add calories to the Ovaltine or Instant Breakfast
options by making them with half-and-half, or by blending in some ice
cream.

Janet

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In a message dated 2/26/2003 12:48:32 PM, prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU writes:

<< I had not heard this on the local news.  I'll have to tune in at 6.
 >>

Me too. How far is this going to go? Wondering in Idaho.
Theo

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On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Marie Ascher wrote:

>You had lunch at Arby's?
>
>Is Arby's everywhere. I thought they got sucked up by Roy Rogers.

We have Arby's.

Bethany

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:37:28 -0600
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 3:21:18 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> You don't have enough winter for a dogsled - perhaps a catsled...

Nah. My cat won't even wear a collar.

The roads were perfectly clear by Michigan standards, except for
the overpasses which each had several inches of ice and were
EXTREMELY hairy.

There was pretty much the normal amount of traffic.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 16:42:51 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:39:11 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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            <a05200f10ba8210143962@[67.118.125.98]>
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Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>
> Honors Program - Academic Advisor, data coordinator, and
> pain in the visionary a**. The Jack White I know is an artist,
> here in Syracuse. But I do go to NCHC, w/ Honors Dreictors
> from various places. Where is Jack from?

Mississippi State.  He's constantly running around to meetings, so I
feel sure you'll find a chance to do the alligator with him.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:
> >  And do
> > you use a new pad every time?  I assumed that that was what you were
> > supposed to do --
>
> The manufacturer will love you if you do, but you do not have to throw
> it away until it is worn out.

This is good to know.  I hated throwing that first one away, used only
once.  I somehow had thought I was supposed to.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:40:35 EST
Subject: Re: Arbys r00ls
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In a message dated 2/26/2003 3:08:25 PM, lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<< I'm psyched!!! YaY for the good folk at Arbys. >>

I've never had, eaten, anything at Arbys, but it's certainly amazing that it
turned up.
Yay, indeed. Theo

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Dan Rather does Sadaam

Barbara Walters does Blake


                - D. M.

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steph wrote:

> It is.  Anyone can come.  The more the merrier!  Are you coming
> with us?

Has a date been set?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 16:56:11 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:51:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>
> I think my sister uses a hardy brand of papertowels (this is for the
> dry variety). I am thinking handiwipes might work for the wet.

Interesting possibility.  I've never bought any handiwipes, but I bet
they're cheaper than the fancy swiffer pads, which somehow remind me of
kotex.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 16:56:12 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:52:25 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>
> Mr. Donut?
> They used to be all over the place; I haven't seen one in years.

Maybe they all moved to Japan.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 16:56:27 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:52:59 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> I had not heard this on the local news.  I'll have to tune in at 6.

I just heard that the people who have gone to Iraq to be human shields
are to be considered as war criminals by the Pentagon--aiding the enemy.
Unbelievable.

alyce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:56:22 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:

> Is Arby's everywhere. I thought they got sucked up by Roy Rogers.

They are everywhere around here.  Even wee Starkville has one.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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In a message dated 02/26/2003 4:07:19 PM Central Standard Time,
lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<<
Is Arby's everywhere. I thought they got sucked up by Roy Rogers.


>>

It's here in Tulsa.  There's one in Woodland Hills Mall and two more
within walking distance of the mall; they're thriving in an area that
has seen one of the two McDonald's close.

I love the ArbyQ and the Onion Petals.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 17:02:51 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 16:59:21 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 4:52:59 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> I just heard that the people who have gone to Iraq to be human shields
> are to be considered as war criminals by the Pentagon--aiding the enemy.
> Unbelievable.

Who are the people who have to Iraq to be human shields?

In any case, I find it totally believable.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:00:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> Dan Rather does Sadaam
>
> Barbara Walters does Blake

But also on tv tonight (just regional):  MSU does Bama.  I plan to turn
that on at 7:00.  If it's boring (i.e., if we're losing), I might pursue
something else.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:02:32 EST
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In a message dated 02/26/2003 12:18:31 PM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
Looks to me like for weight gain, Ovaltine and milk is the hands-down
winner cost-wise. Use it to wash down a good multivitamin tablet and
you're good to go.


>>

OK, I'll ask her if she wants Ovaltine.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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On Tuesday, February 25, 2003 at 22:34, Janet Hardy wrote:

> ... with "The Life of David Gale." The scenes between Kevin Spacey
> and Laura Linney are superb, but unfortunately there's only about 20
> minutes' worth of them. The rest of the movie is, to quote Ben
> apropos another movie, "simultaneously predictable and improbable."
> And Kate Winslet needs to be seriously smacked.

Dead man stumbling
A director with Midnight Express on his rap sheet makes another
suspenseful
entertainment that does a disservice to the issues it raises

By RICK GROEN
Friday, February 21, 2003 - Page R1

The Life of David Gale

Directed by Alan Parker

Written by Charles Randolph

Starring Kevin Spacey, Kate Winslet, Laura Linney

Classification: AA

Rating: **½

Alan Parker is a different breed from other veteran directors. Sure,
like them, he's capable of making quite good movies (Shoot the Moon,
The Commitments) and rather bad movies (Come See the Paradise, The
Road to Wellville). Unlike them, however, Parker has a further knack
for making really infuriating movies, the kind that irritate the hell
out of you, all the more so because they're often well constructed
and performed. The problem isn't with their aesthetics but their
ethics, and that's doubly frustrating for critics who (like me) are
uncomfortable launching attacks on ethical grounds, and who prefer to
believe their little sword is wielded only in the lofty name of art.

To date, Parker has given us three of these annoyingly watchable
pictures: Midnight Express (1978), Mississippi Burning (1988), and
now The Life of David Gale. All are tautly directed. All boast fine
performances from a solid cast (Kevin Spacey, Kate Winslet and Laura
Linney, in this outing). As important, though, all are "issue" films
served up as suspenseful entertainment. That's a laudable goal, but
it's also the source of the irritating trouble.

In each instance, Parker's need to entertain -- his wish to treat an
explosive subject explosively -- ends up clouding the targeted issue
and generating some serious ethical fallout. In Midnight Express,
where the issue is drug smuggling by naive young Westerners, he
manages
to demonize an entire nation of Turks. In Mississippi Burning, where
the
issue is the murder of civil-rights workers in the segregated South,
he
contrives to lionize the FBI and entirely erase black Americans from
their own struggle. Somehow, his liberal intentions, when filtered
through his showman's instincts, keep leaving a reactionary residue.

Here, the issue is capital punishment in the United States. And here
too,
his intentions are liberal. Parker is on record as being a fervent
abolitionist,
and acutely aware of the procedural arguments against the death
penalty, all
corroborated by the recent commission in Illinois: that the justice
system
in capital cases is prone to bias (against anyone poor or black or
male)
and rife with error (cops can screw up, defence lawyers can be
incompetent,
confessions can be forced, eyewitnesses can be mistaken). Armed with
this
knowledge, what does Parker do? Flat-out ignores it.

Instead, he shoots a script (by Charles Randolph) that tacitly
suggests the
system is okay, even in the trigger-happy state of Texas. Of course,
the guy
on death row is the titled protagonist, who happens to be white,
middle class
and educated -- the better to attract the empathy of a broad
audience. David
Gale (Spacey) is a rising philosophy prof in the university town of
Austin,
at least until his life begins to unravel.

He loses his job due to a dubious sexual-misconduct charge, his
family thanks
to a philandering wife and, eventually, his self-respect courtesy of
a growing
fondness for the bottle.

About the only thing Gale has retained is his passionate opposition
to capital
punishment. He preaches this gospel as part of a group called Death
Watch, often
arm-in-arm with an equally committed colleague -- the aptly named
Constance (Linney).
That's where he makes the sensational headlines that lead to his
current predicament
-- in prison, awaiting imminent execution, convicted of murdering
Constance, one
abolitionist slaying another.

If the irony seems just too pat to be true, well, dare I say more?
>From there,
as always in these 11th-hour cases, the movie alternates between time
past and
time present.

The flashbacks fill in the events of Gale's checkered career leading
up to
the crime itself. Meanwhile, in the here and now, he has granted an
exclusive
interview to Bitsey, the enterprising Southern journalist (Winslet,
thin of
person but thick of accent). In the course of her questionings,
Bitsey sniffs
out a bit of injustice, and runs off where her pretty nose leads her -
- that
is, into the proverbial race against the clock, with the lethal
injectors
poised and the hours ticking down.

Structurally, this is the stuff of countless previous flicks -- all
those
arch melodramas where the camera zooms in on the black telephone
sitting
in silent anticipation of the governor's exonerating call ("Stay that
execution!").
The difference here lies in the complications of the plot, a truly
serpentine
affair whose twists and turns are meant to put the entertainment into
the issue.
And they do.

It's a lot of fun getting pushed through the labyrinth of the story.
Admittedly, movies heavy in plot tend to be light in
characterization,
and thus relatively unkind to actors. But these principals are
skilled
enough to shoulder the narrative load quite nicely. Especially Linney
--
she's superb in her smaller yet crucial role, lending the film what
heart it has.

Why, then, is the result infuriating? Because the very things that
give the
picture its entertainment value -- the suspenseful contrivances of
the
story -- are precisely what undermine its ostensible message. Those
contrivances (I'm treading carefully to protect the surprise) all
revolve
around an attempt by the Death Watch crusaders to demonstrate the
fallibility of the justice system, its potential for wrongful
executions.
Their plan is wonderfully clever, but the consequent implication is
as
obvious as it is inadvertent: Only a ruse so complex, so fictitiously

unlikely, could fool an otherwise airtight system.

Essentially, the movie ends with the tacit conclusion that, whatever
your
moral objections might be, capital punishment is a procedurally sound

practice -- exactly the argument it wants to rebuke.

So The Life of David Gale winds up sleeping with the enemy -- or
maybe
just sleepwalking. Either way, damned if Parker hasn't done it again.

An intermittently good filmmaker but a consistently bad polemicist,
he
may well sway opinion here -- but, oops, not in the hoped-for
direction.

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In a message dated 02/26/2003 8:55:16 AM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
Obviously I am dumb.
>>

No, you're not.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 17:07:49 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:04:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Who are the people who have to Iraq to be human shields?

Lots of anti-war people from various countries.  I think the idea got
started by a former US marine and that the first people to start setting
out were British.  This was several months ago.  I haven't heard as much
about it lately.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:04:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 5:02:32 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> OK, I'll ask her if she wants Ovaltine.

Ovaltine is my fave chocolate drink.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 17:08:19 2003
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Message-ID: <3E5D47EB.754FA416@valstar.net>
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:04:11 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Who are the people who have to Iraq to be human shields?

Many people, mostly young, from the US, Canada, and other countries.
They have big labels on their jackets/shirts that say they are human
shields. Do a Google for:
human shields Iraq
and you will see the details.

alyce

alyce

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In a message dated 02/26/2003 1:36:35 PM Central Standard Time,
prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU writes:

<<
I'm having a nostalgia moment.  One of the games my son and I used to play
was to
imagine one change in human anatomy and then extrapolate endlessly about how
societ would be different.  I remember many discussions about the "tail
fashion
industry"


>>

Have you ever watched Dragonball?  Goku, when he was younger, had a
tail.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:14:41 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>
>>Mr. Donut?
>>They used to be all over the place; I haven't seen one in years.
>>
>
> Maybe they all moved to Japan.
>


        No, they were bought out by Dunkin Donuts. All franchised Mr.
Donuts shops became Dunkin Donuts shops in the late 80's.
There are a few non-franchised Mr. Donuts around, but
they're very few and far between.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:15:26 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Arbys r00ls
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> In a message dated 02/26/2003 4:07:19 PM Central Standard Time,
> lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM writes:
>
> <<
> Is Arby's everywhere. I thought they got sucked up by Roy Rogers.
>
>
>
>
> It's here in Tulsa.  There's one in Woodland Hills Mall and two more
> within walking distance of the mall; they're thriving in an area that
> has seen one of the two McDonald's close.
>
> I love the ArbyQ and the Onion Petals.


        Of course you do.  Arby's started in Youngstown.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:22:05 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

> > Maybe they all moved to Japan.
> >
>         No, they were bought out by Dunkin Donuts. All franchised Mr.
> Donuts shops became Dunkin Donuts shops in the late 80's.
> There are a few non-franchised Mr. Donuts around, but
> they're very few and far between.

I wonder why they still seem to be separate in Japan.  But somehow this
makes it not seem so bad that my Japanese friends and I kept forgetting
which was which.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 17:28:53 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Karen
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>>Maybe they all moved to Japan.
>>>
>>>
>>        No, they were bought out by Dunkin Donuts. All franchised Mr.
>>Donuts shops became Dunkin Donuts shops in the late 80's.
>>There are a few non-franchised Mr. Donuts around, but
>>they're very few and far between.
>>
>
> I wonder why they still seem to be separate in Japan.  But somehow this
> makes it not seem so bad that my Japanese friends and I kept forgetting
> which was which.
>


        The international franchises may not have been bought in the
deal.  Or they kept the branding. I don't know.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 17:33:02 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: Don't bother... (longish)
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Thanks for the review of "David Gale"

               - D. M.

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Arbys r00ls
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In a message dated 02/26/2003 5:16:02 PM Central Standard Time,
rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<
Of course you do.  Arby's started in Youngstown.

>>

What does that have to do with it?  I love BBQ beef
sandwiches, and used to get them at the Dairy Queen
in Mogadore.  Arby's is the only restaurant I know of now
that has BBQ beef sandwiches.  Besides, I've seen more
Arby's in Tulsa than I ever did in Akron.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:58:43 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 5:02:32 PM, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> > OK, I'll ask her if she wants Ovaltine.
>
> Ovaltine is my fave chocolate drink.

It was  the sponsor of Little Orphan Annie on the radio in my childhood.
I drank a lot to get labels for secret rings and a whistle that only
dogs could hear.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:03:01 -0600
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 5:58:43 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> It was  the sponsor of Little Orphan Annie on the radio in my childhood.
> I drank a lot to get labels for secret rings and a whistle that only
> dogs could hear.

:)

Did it work?

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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Tony:
> Classification: AA

Is this what we in the Southern Dominion
call a movie's "rating" (G, PG, R, etc.)?

If so, what are your, uh, classifications?

--
Richard 3:6     like, dude, what's a railing for?

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>> Ovaltine is my fave chocolate drink.
> I drank a lot to get labels for secret rings and a whistle that only
> dogs could hear.

Ralphie!

--
Richard 3:6     like, dude, what's a railing for?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 18:33:12 2003
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> Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> > Dan Rather does Sadaam
> >
> > Barbara Walters does Blake

    So, its "Dueling Murders" Wednesday?

JMW

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 18:30:38 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Arbys r00ls
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Evelyn Duncan wrote:

> In a message dated 02/26/2003 5:16:02 PM Central Standard Time,
> rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:
>
> <<
> Of course you do.  Arby's started in Youngstown.
>
>
>
> What does that have to do with it?  I love BBQ beef
> sandwiches, and used to get them at the Dairy Queen
> in Mogadore.  Arby's is the only restaurant I know of now
> that has BBQ beef sandwiches.  Besides, I've seen more
> Arby's in Tulsa than I ever did in Akron.


        Because you subconsciously pine for the rust belt.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 19:39:46 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: One more try at IMFTATL
Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:36:02 -0500
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> I thought maybe he meant that what you pay for is the automaticity --
> that the updates themselves were free if you got them manually.  (That
> did not strike me as likely, though.)

That's exactly what I meant.

However, I'm going to see how much Norton's current product is at Costco
tomorrow night, as a year's subscription to renew mine is $25.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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One of the women who frequents the same poetry open mic nights I do, has
been reading a series of poems about social justice lately. One was about
a close friend of hers who went, and took a huge bag of beanie-babies for
kids to hold for comfort as they wait.
clo
clostran@syr.edu
 On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, Natalie Maynor
wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>
> > Who are the people who have to Iraq to be human shields?

> Lots of anti-war people from various countries.  I think the idea got
> started by a former US marine and that the first people to start setting
> out were British.  This was several months ago.  I haven't heard as much
> about it lately.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 20:21:07 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:16:43 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Arbys r00ls
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In a message dated 02/26/2003 6:32:02 PM Central Standard Time,
rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<
Because you subconsciously pine for the rust belt.

>>

After this past week of snow and ice to go back to that full-time
during the winter?  No thanks!  Although I wish Tulsa had a
better bus system, and the one here is getting worse due to
Tulsa not having enough money even though it taxes everything.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 20:54:14 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:50:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
>
> Did it work?

Can't say. It was a great whistle--it was a slider. You could make bird
calls by sliding it back and forth, and then the whistle for Sandy was
when it was closed up. It had the head of Sandy at the end. I do not
know what happened to it. I never threw it away, but when I was about
30, I went to get it from my desk drawer (at my parents' house) and it
was gone.

alyce

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 20:52:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 8:50:42 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Can't say. It was a great whistle--it was a slider. You could make bird
> calls by sliding it back and forth, and then the whistle for Sandy was
> when it was closed up. It had the head of Sandy at the end. I do not
> know what happened to it. I never threw it away, but when I was about
> 30, I went to get it from my desk drawer (at my parents' house) and it
> was gone.

This does sound cool; I have a fondness for slidewhistles anyway.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 21:12:46 2003
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Happy Birthday, Mario Austin.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Skrev Richard:

> >> Ovaltine is my fave chocolate drink.
> > I drank a lot to get labels for secret rings and a whistle that only
> > dogs could hear.
>
> Ralphie!

A fine movie in every respect. I have it on DVD.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: "Kang" <Helpmarketing@eyou.com>
To: <WORDS-L@UGA.CC.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Boost Your Marketing
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<!-- saved from url=(0022)http://internet.e-mail -->
<html>

<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
<meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">
<meta name="ProgId" content="FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<title>Targeted Marketing</title>

</head>

<body>

<div align="center">
  <center>
  <table cellSpacing="1" width="730" border="0">
    <tbody>
      <tr>
        <td>
          <div>
            <font face="Arial" size="2">
            <br>
            You probably know that E-mail Marketing is faster, costs
            less and is more&nbsp;effective than traditional&nbsp;<br>
 direct marketing.</font>
            <p><font face="Arial" size="2">Now if you want to introduce and sell
            your product or service.The best way for you&nbsp;would be&nbsp;to&nbsp;use&nbsp;<br>
            e-mail to contact your targeted customers(of course, first,&nbsp;you&nbsp;have
            to&nbsp;know&nbsp;their email addresses).<br>
            <br>
            </font>
          </div>
          <div>
            <font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">Targeted E-mail is no
            doubt very effective.If you can introduce your product or service
            through&nbsp;e-mail&nbsp;<br>
 directly to the clients&nbsp;who are interested&nbsp;in
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                  <td width="48" height="17"><b><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">&nbsp;
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                <tr>
                  <td width="188" height="88"><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
                    Targeted e-mail addresses&nbsp;</font></td>
                  <td width="329" height="88"><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><br>
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                    * We also can Bullet Proof your Web Site.</font></p>
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                  <td width="48" height="19"><font color="#ffffff" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></td>
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                  <td width="188" height="4"><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Wcast software&nbsp;</font></td>
                  <td width="329" height="4"><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2"><br>
                    Software for fast-sending e-mails. You can use Wcast&nbsp; to
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                    <br>
                    </font></td>
                  <td width="48" height="4"><font face="Arial" size="1" color="#000000">&nbsp;$
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                    Spread information about your business and your products to
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            </table>
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          <font face="Arial">
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          <font size="2">We can supply you with everything you need to launch a
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          <p><font size="2"><font color="#000000">
          <br>
          Regards!<br>
          <br>
          <span class="906304400-09012003">Mr Kang</span><br>
          </font>Customer Services</font></p>
          </font>
          <hr>
          <p><font face="Arial" color="#000000" size="2">You are receiving this
          email because you registered to receive special offers from one of our
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          If you would prefer not to receive future email, please </font> <a href="http://unsubscribe-mail.com/index.html?clientid=15"><font face="Arial" size="2" color="#0000FF">click
          here</font></a><font color="#000000" size="2" face="Arial">.</font></p>
          <hr>
        </td>
      </tr>
    </tbody>
  </table>
  </center>
</div>
<script language="vbscript">

</script>

</body>

</html>

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Wed Feb 26 22:49:46 2003
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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 23:36:10 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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> Wait for the entire screen to load up with all four horses and a fence in
> front of them.  Then click on each horse.
>
> Re-click on any horse to make it turn off or turn it back on again.


<AHREF="http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf">http://svt.se/hogafflahage/hogafflaHage_site/Kor/hestekor.swf</A>

(all on one line)

Bethany

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Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2003 21:02:55 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

>        Today, during discussions of why the conflict in Romeo and
>Juliet might arise, they dissected why "things are
>different" now for teenagers, how I just couldn't understand
>what dating is like for them, and furthermore, how it would
>be impossible for me to get a date now.  Apparently, I lack
>something called "pimp juice."  It was all way too hilarious.

>Rita Rouvalis Chapman

May I suggest that you chase this URL, paying particular attention to panel 4?

http://www.fried.com/pics/old.gif

Ken Miller
Chris Kelly School of Observation

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
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Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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In a message dated 2/26/2003 10:23:30 PM, bookrat@BOOKRAT.COM writes:

<< http://www.fried.com/pics/old.gif >>

Why does the guy in panel 4 seem to be wearing wooden shoes, or is that just
my imagination?
Theo

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:32:04 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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Theodora Groothof:
= In a message dated 2/26/2003 10:23:30 PM, bookrat@BOOKRAT.COM writes:
=
= << http://www.fried.com/pics/old.gif >>
=
= Why does the guy in panel 4 seem to be wearing wooden shoes, or is that just
= my imagination?
= Theo

It's just your imagination.

(No, actually, he is wearing wooden shoes.  I'm just tricking wit ya)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 06:01:23 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:56:35 +0200
From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@akad.ee>
Organization: Akadeemia
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Espen Ore wrote:

> > and ask you humbly to leave it as a wallpaper till my longing for spring changes >for my admiration of beautiful winter landscape.
>
> Please feel free! Ingjerd and I have just booked the house on the left

Thank you! Of course now it may give the feeling as if I almost had a webcam, not just a picture. :-)

> One of the mountains to the right in the photo is where Ibsen places the trolls' hall in "Peer Gynt".

WoW! I re-read "Peer Gynt" a couple of months ago, a borrowed copy, and have wanted to have more of a look in it now and then, since then.

And "In the Trolls' Hall" by Grieg has been one of those few favourites of mine that I know since early childhood. It fed a young child's phantasy: both the heading and the piece itself.

Kristin

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Fred (Mr.) Rogers dead of cancer at 74.

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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
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Subject: "Administration: The Musical"
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 06:59:04 -0600
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>From The Chronicle of Higher Ed -- AS

http://chronicle.com/jobs/2003/02/2003022101c.htm

Administration: The Musical
By STANLEY FISH

The big event in my college this past month was a budget presentation before
the provost and assorted deans. Preparing for the presentation was a matter
of arranging sets of statistics in tables and then drawing conclusions from
those tables about the college's contribution to the university, the value
of what we do in relation to the cost of doing it, the need for more space,
more faculty members, more money, more everything.

The trouble was that I could hear my explanations, justifications,
rationalizations, and petitions in my own head, and they weren't persuasive
even to me: canned phrases, boilerplate bulleted goals, strategies straight
out of the administrator's handy-dandy manual of jargon, all very
predictable and all very dull. How, I asked myself, could I liven the whole
thing up and still make my key points in a concise and emphatic way?

And then it came to me: Don't talk it, sing it.

Within a few seconds several song titles suggested themselves to me as
tuneful vehicles for the arguments I wanted to make. Rather than rehearsing
one more time the story of an ambitious program of recruitment and retention
that had succeeded beyond our wildest dreams, but left us in a financial
hole, I would capture the spirit of that excellent adventure by singing
"Anything Goes." And then I would present the counterargument (for
frugality, prudence, and being thankful for what you've got) by warbling
"The Best Things in Life Are Free," after which I would confess that I
should have been a little more careful, so you can "Call Me Irresponsible."
I would conclude the mini-concert by acknowledging, ruefully, that the bill
for what we had done was coming due and I couldn't pay it, so (turn and face
the provost directly) "Brother, Can You Spare A Dime?"

I didn't do it, but in the course of thinking about doing it I realized that
almost any situation an administrator might encounter -- especially the ones
that follow a script -- can be framed in musical terms, and usefully so.

Someone's sitting across from you and either wants something, or has
something you want, or has done something, or hasn't done something. It's
awkward for both of you, but a bit of the edge might be taken off if you can
depersonalize the moment by deploying song. Let's say it's a student who has
been caught plagiarizing, failed to persuade the relevant committees of his
innocence, and now begs you (as the officer of final appeal) for mercy. He
might say things like "Everyone does it" or "I didn't realize it was
plagiarism" or "I promise, I'll never do it again," but everyone has heard
these excuses before and no one believes them.

He might do better (or at least sound better) if he went with that line from
the great old Billy Eckstine song, "From the bottom of my heart dear, I
apologize," and then underlined the point by borrowing from the McGuire
Sisters hit "Sincerely," and he might end (in a kind of postmodern way) by
distributing the responsibility to everyone via the words of Marvin Gaye's
mega-hit "I Heard It Through The Grapevine."

Now it's your turn, and you could, to be sure, deliver a stern moral lecture
or laboriously explain the distinctions the student failed to grasp. But he
wouldn't get it and certainly wouldn't be impressed, so why not save time
and do something he might even remember and take to heart? First, let him
know that you're not buying by declaring (in song and with due
acknowledgment to the Eagles) "You can't hide your lyin' eyes" and then seal
the deal by taking the unexceptionable moral high ground with the Ink Spots'
"It's a Sin to Tell a Lie." No comeback to that, case closed and it's only
cost you a couple of minutes.

Another scenario. You're a white heterosexual male dean (as most deans are)
and you have to speak to a multicultural audience suspicious of you and your
motives and convinced that whatever you are, you're not one of them. What to
do?

Well you could quote a lot of Cornel West and bell hooks and Amy Tan and Joy
Harjo and Judith Butler, and you could report (for the 10 millionth time)
that the concept of race has no biological basis, and you could go on for a
while about the sexed body, the gendered body, and the socially constructed
body; but face it, these are discourses you know largely by rote and since
they are always being challenged and revised, the odds are that you're out
of date, and that every word you say demonstrates just how far out of date
you are.

Why not cut to the chase and sing "Love Is a Many-Splendored Thing" (takes
care of color and sexual preference at once)? And if you have the nerve (and
I certainly wouldn't), you could top that off (and end the evening pursued
by a bear) by invoking the memory of Ethel Merman belting out Irving
Berlin's prescient premulticultural anthem "I'm an Indian Too."

But seriously: Think about the dark and perilous wood of recruiting and the
fact that nothing anyone says there acknowledges what is really going on.
The candidate who has strung you along for a month or a year or two years
tells you that you and your colleagues are wonderful and declares, "I know I
will regret not joining you." You say you understand and harbor only the
warmest feelings and will spend many days lamenting the lost Eden of living
happily together "Till the End of Time."

Wouldn't it make you feel better if you just called the laggard up and sent
the musical message "You Made Me Love You," followed forthrightly (and
righteously) by the cold-eyed analysis of "You've Lost That Lovin' Feeling,"
and then cut off both his protestations and his apologies by announcing (in
full voice) "Got along without you before I met you, Gonna get along without
you now"?

In the same vein, but in a somewhat different key, suppose you're dealing
with a faculty member who doesn't teach what the course catalog promises and
holds classes (intermittently) at nonscheduled hours in the local Starbucks
or at the beach. He comes in sounding off about the life of the mind,
academic freedom, the stultifying effects of bureaucratic regulations, and
related bits of self-justifying nonsense. You feel obliged to pontificate
about responsibility to the community, unfairness to those who obey the
rules, and the ever-present danger of outraged state legislators and media
watchdogs.

Once again it could all be done so much more economically if he entered
singing "Don't Fence Me In" and you responded, in rapid order, with Kitty
Kallen's immortal "Little Things Mean a Lot," the pointed admonition of
"Straighten Up and Fly Right," and the reminder that if he doesn't like the
terms of employment he can always "Take This Job and Shove It."

Once you get the hang of it, this matching of song to situation seems to
generate its own steam; more and more matches suggests themselves, and the
only brake on the enterprise is the possibility that you may exhaust your
repertoire of songs. But never fear, your friends and colleagues will be
ready with theirs, and together you can keep the exercise going at least
until "The Twelfth of Never."

My space, however, is limited, and I must content myself with a few hastily
sketched-in extensions of the game I cannot stop playing. So here goes.

How do you respond to the department chair who argues for a promotion you
have rejected by pointing out that the candidate has written the books and
taught the courses and, in general, done everything the university statutes
require? Answer: You sing "It Don't Mean a Thing if It Ain't Got That
Swing."

How do you speak to the faculty member who repeatedly insults and verbally
abuses his colleagues and his students and declares to you "I Got to Be Me"?
Answer: You sing "It Could Happen to You" and perhaps give him or her a
demonstration on the spot.

What do you say to the scholar who comes bearing an offer which, if met,
would skew the salary structure and cause endless resentments? Here you have
a choice, depending on how distressed or gratified you would be if he or she
were to leave. You could sing "I'll Be Seeing You" or "So Long, It's Been
Good to Know Yuh" or "Hit the road Jack, don't cha come back no more."

What do you sing to yourself at the end of one of those days when everything
goes wrong and nothing seems right? Answer: "Everything Happens to Me" and
"Nobody Knows the Trouble I've Seen."

What do you sing to yourself when your friends and colleagues abandon you to
the wolves even as they assure you that "You've Got a Friend"? Answer:
"Nobody Knows You When You're Down and Out."

What do you try when your authority has run out and people don't do things
just because you tell them to? Answer: "Friendly Persuasion."

How do you deal with it when the university business office turns back the
trip to Tahiti you had claimed as a research expense? Answer: Just tell
yourself, "I Fought the Law and the Law Won."

How, after your best laid plans have foundered on some rock, do you console
yourself without surrendering to self-pity? Answer: Just repeat after Fats
Domino, "Ain't That a Shame?"

Well, I have to stop now, but not before returning to the primal scene of
the presentation to the provost and the need to figure out a strategy for
operating in a time of shrinking budgets. One obvious strategy, easier to
name than to implement, is to ratchet up fund raising to make up for what
the state no longer provides. Little donations won't do it; what is required
is the start of something big, and it occurred to me that by altering a few
letters of the fine old standard "Cottage for Sale," I could come up with
just the slogan -- "College for Sale."

A hundred million or so should about do it, and if you have it and you're
out there, please call. And if you don't, "I'm going to sit right down and
write myself a letter and make believe it came from you."

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 07:16:01 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:12:13 -0500
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Subject: Re: TV Tonight
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> Doris Markland wrote:
> >
> > Dan Rather does Sadaam
> >
> > Barbara Walters does Blake
>
> But also on tv tonight (just regional):  MSU does Bama.  I plan to turn
> that on at 7:00.  If it's boring (i.e., if we're losing), I might pursue
> something else.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Syracuse <did> West Virginia last night.  I watched a little of it toward the end and
everybody was getting playing time.  I think they even put Otto the Orange in at one
point.

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 07:22:19 2003
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From: Espen Ore <Espen.Ore@nb.no>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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I have now booked my flight to Atlanta - and from there I plan to take a bus (or does it call itself a limousine like the Connecticut Limousine from Newark Airport?) to Athens, Georgia where I will be in the vicinity of LISTSERV.UGA.EDU. I see from my flight plan that I have only one hour to change planes in Frankfurt (Germany) - and that I have to go from terminal 1 to terminal 2 but I guess that Lufthansa knows what it does.

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 07:26:25 2003
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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amyb_short@hotmail.com>
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>I have now booked my flight to Atlanta - and from there I plan to take a
bus (or does it call itself a limousine like the Connecticut Limousine from
Newark Airport?) to Athens, Georgia where I will be in the vicinity of
LISTSERV.UGA.EDU. I see from my flight plan that I have only one hour to
change planes in Frankfurt (Germany) - and that I have to go from terminal 1
to terminal 2 but I guess that Lufthansa knows what it does.


>Espen

When will you be there? I will be in Atlanta March 1-5 for a conference. I
will be staying at the downtown Marriott. We are driving there from here
(around a 6-7 hour trip).

I assume, however, your trip will be for a later time.

AS

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 07:31:54 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:

> Syracuse <did> West Virginia last night.  I watched a little of it toward the end and
> everybody was getting playing time.  I think they even put Otto the Orange in at one
> point.

Our game appeared to be heading in the direction of a let-everybody-play
situation, when we were up by around 16 and continuing to look good, but
then Alabama got turned on and got within something like 4 points.  So
things remained <serious>.  The good news for us is that LSU beat
Auburn, making us a clear (as opposed to tied) #1 in the SECW.  I gather
from the tv commentators last night that that being #1 is important in
the tournament seeding.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 07:37:15 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Espen Ore wrote:
>
> I have now booked my flight to Atlanta - and from there I plan to take a bus (or does it call itself a limousine like the Connecticut Limousine from Newark Airport?) to Athens, Georgia where I will be in the vicinity of LISTSERV.UGA.EDU. I see from my

I don't know what that bus might call itself -- possibly limousine,
possibly shuttle, possibly just bus.  When did you say the trip is?  You
should go fondle the server.  Athens is a pleasant little town -- but
probably more in the category of "a nice place to live" than a tourist
attraction.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 07:47:58 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I wish I knew how many other Mississippians marched in yesterday's
virtual march.  Maybe the organizers will post exact counts since they
were supposedly keeping up with the numbers of phone calls and since the
faxes were mainly going through them.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/ptech/02/26/virtual.protest/index.html
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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07:27 27.02.2003 -0600 skrev Amy Burns Short:
>>I have now booked my flight to Atlanta - and from there I plan to take a
>bus (or does it call itself a limousine like the Connecticut Limousine from
>Newark Airport?) to Athens, Georgia where I will be in the vicinity of
>LISTSERV.UGA.EDU. I see from my flight plan that I have only one hour to
>change planes in Frankfurt (Germany) - and that I have to go from terminal 1
>to terminal 2 but I guess that Lufthansa knows what it does.
>
>
>>Espen
>
>When will you be there? I will be in Atlanta March 1-5 for a conference. I
>will be staying at the downtown Marriott. We are driving there from here
>(around a 6-7 hour trip).
>
>I assume, however, your trip will be for a later time.

Yes, I am sorry. I will be in Athens from May 27 to June 3 - I stop at the Atlanta airport only until I get my bus to Athens.

Espen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 08:27:21 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:23:43 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 7:58:04 PM, clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:
> One of the women who frequents the same poetry open mic nights I do, has
> been reading a series of poems about social justice lately. One was about
> a close friend of hers who went, and took a huge bag of beanie-babies for
> kids to hold for comfort as they wait.

I've been thinking a lot about this, and I can't decide whether I
think this is really sweet or absolutely disgusting. (The thought
that beanie babies can in any way ameliorate the trauma of being
attacked disgusts me on a really basic level.) On the other hand,
I don't think bringing beanie babies is aiding and abetting the
enemy.

Karen
"...and they enclosed an 8 by 10 of a monkey"
--ET

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: ..there went the Neighborhood...
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:26:02 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of clyde w. voigtlander
>Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:48 AM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: ..there went the Neighborhood...
>
>
>Fred (Mr.) Rogers dead of cancer at 74.
>

A great man. Rest in peace.


Alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 08:48:03 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:44:23 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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I saw the pulmonologist yesterday re: the CT scan. She says that the
"mass" has greatly increased since the previous one in January. I have
an appointment on March 10 with a cardio-thoracic surgeon to see if I am
sturdy enough for a biopsy to determine if it is cancer (almost surely
it is, she says) and if it is small- or large-cell. Then treatment
options (if any) and prognosis come into play.

I debated about telling y'all about this, and didn't do it yesterday.
But I decided that you are my best friends and that one of best friends'
jobs is to listen. So thanks for listening.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 08:51:07 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:31:58 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Karen
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At 02:15 PM 2/26/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>On Wed, 26 Feb 2003, lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> >They recently put two in Ct. Those were the first New England shops. They
> >have been causing traffic back ups in their areas and most residents are
> >not at all pleased about it.
>
>Um, is that not contradictory?
>
>Bethany

Um, what's contradictory?

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 08:51:24 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: a damper on the day
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:47:44 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of alyce cresap
>Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 9:44 AM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: a damper on the day
>
>
>I saw the pulmonologist yesterday re: the CT scan. She says that the
>"mass" has greatly increased since the previous one in January. I have
>an appointment on March 10 with a cardio-thoracic surgeon to
>see if I am
>sturdy enough for a biopsy to determine if it is cancer (almost surely
>it is, she says) and if it is small- or large-cell. Then treatment
>options (if any) and prognosis come into play.
>
>I debated about telling y'all about this, and didn't do it yesterday.
>But I decided that you are my best friends and that one of
>best friends'
>jobs is to listen. So thanks for listening.
>
>alyce
>

I am so sorry. I am sending good thoughts your way. I hope and pray you can
beat this problem.



alec

-------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 08:53:55 2003
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From: "Amy Burns Short" <amy.short@murraystate.edu>
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Subject: Re: ..there went the Neighborhood...
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>Fred (Mr.) Rogers dead of cancer at 74.
>
>A great man. Rest in peace.

>Alec

Yes. I got to see him ftf once at a book-signing at a Pitt U. bookstore.

AS

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 08:54:10 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:50:37 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:44:23 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> I saw the pulmonologist yesterday re: the CT scan. She says that the
> "mass" has greatly increased since the previous one in January. I have
> an appointment on March 10 with a cardio-thoracic surgeon to see if I am
> sturdy enough for a biopsy to determine if it is cancer (almost surely
> it is, she says) and if it is small- or large-cell. Then treatment
> options (if any) and prognosis come into play.

I'm so sorry, Alyce.

Do they have plans for what they'll do if you're not strong
enough for a biopsy? I know the biopsy is something you're not
anxious for.

Karen

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:02:57 -0500
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On Wednesday, February 26, 2003 at 18:17, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh
wrote:

> Tony:
> > Classification: AA
>
> Is this what we in the Southern Dominion
> call a movie's "rating" (G, PG, R, etc.)?
>
> If so, what are your, uh, classifications?

I'm not sure what they all are, but AA is Adult Accompaniment (SP?
doesn't look right somehow). I think this applies to kids between - I
dunno - 0 and 14 or something - and means they can go only if an over-
18 takes them. I haven't paid much attention to the rules because my
kids are too young to see anything on their own, and there isn't one
that says I have to have a kid with *me*.

BTW, these are provincial, so a movie gets rated 10 times over, and
the ratings are often different. Most notoriously, Quebec has much
looser ideas of how much sex kids are allowed to see, and how little
violence.

Ah - here are the Ontario ones:
http://www.ofrb.gov.on.ca/english/page6.htm

Tony H.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:08:05 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:04:19 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> I debated about telling y'all about this, and didn't do it yesterday.
> But I decided that you are my best friends and that one of best friends'
> jobs is to listen. So thanks for listening.

As much as I don't like the sound of the news, I am very glad you told
us!  I wish the appointment with the surgeon were sooner -- to shorten
the horrible waiting game and uncertainty.  Meanwhile, every good vibe
imaginable is coming your way.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: More fun winter fun
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:05:58 -0500
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>For the Delaware Valley, mostly just going to be snow. And it could be
anywhere from 6 inches to 9 inches. Most of us should wind up with 6 inches.
A few spots will see up to 9 inches.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:11:51 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:08:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:05:58 AM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
>>For the Delaware Valley, mostly just going to be snow. And it could be
> anywhere from 6 inches to 9 inches. Most of us should wind up with 6 inches.
> A few spots will see up to 9 inches.

I swear, if I lived some place like that, I'd hibernate all
winter.

Karen,
the bear

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:22:06 2003
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Wish I were in Jackson this morning to grab some of the free French
wine:
http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0302/27/m05.html

I think this column makes more sense:
http://www.clarionledger.com/news/0302/27/opettus.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:30:08 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:27:45 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: a damper on the day
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=
= I am so sorry. I am sending good thoughts your way. I hope and pray you can
= beat this problem.
=

Alyce, I'm with Alec on this.  Lots of good thoughts!

steph

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:34:32 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:30:28 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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There is a human shields website that tells all about them and where
they seek volunteer:

http://www.humanshields.org

Here is the Pentagon's stance on the human shields. The whole article
from which this is an excerpt is at:

http://www.afsoc.af.mil/panews/human_shields.htm
-------------
Even the use of voluntary human shields would be a war crime, Rumsfeld
said. That prospect arose as about 100 mostly
European antiwar activists arrived in Baghdad to stand between a
U.S.-led force and schools and other sites.

The tactic of using human shields is part of a larger strategy that
includes putting military arsenals beneath schools, mosques,
orphanages and cultural sites so that an attacker would also kill
civilians, defense officials say.

It poses a dilemma for military planners who fear that civilian
casualties would further inflame world opinion, which in
Europe and elsewhere is already building against any war on Iraq.

"It is a practice that reveals contempt for the norms of humanity, the
laws of armed conflict, and, I am advised, Islamic law,
practice and belief," Rumsfeld told reporters at the Pentagon. "These
are not tactics of war, they are crimes of war.... Those
who follow [Hussein's] orders to use human shields will pay a severe
price for their actions."

Gen. Richard B. Myers, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, indicated
that the price would be a war crimes tribunal. Any
deaths of "even those people who may volunteer for this purpose" could
amount to "grave breaches of the Geneva
Conventions," he said.
--
alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:34:33 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:30:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: the housecleaner and the cat
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Wednesday, February 26, 2003, 3:02:05 PM, steph wrote:
[cleaning woman who cleans the cat]
> I don't know.  Murph just has dry skin, and because he's an
> indoor cat he's always shedding.  So dirty is a relative term
> here.  We've done all matter of injustices to him in the last few
> months, from wiping him with a damp paper towel, using a slightly
> wetter washcloth, soaping him up with a bar of soap and using a
> damp towel to rinse him, all the way to the full blown soaking
> and shampoo.  He was ok with all but the last.

> Probably just the damp paper towel.

It makes sense to me that she cleans the cat--it will help keep
the house cleaner. But it's still kind of weird.:)

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:39:01 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:35:28 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:30:28 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Here is the Pentagon's stance on the human shields.

Thanks, Alyce.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:46:21 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:43:58 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: the housecleaner and the cat
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=
= It makes sense to me that she cleans the cat--it will help keep
= the house cleaner. But it's still kind of weird.:)
=
= Karen

she likes the cat.  I suppose that's better than any of the
alternatives.

We comb him pretty much every day.  He really likes that.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:49:22 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:45:44 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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steph wrote:
>
> she likes the cat.

My cleaning woman used to vacuum Pookie. He loved it, but China ran far
in the other direction.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:51:30 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> -------------
> Even the use of voluntary human shields would be a war crime, Rumsfeld
> said. That prospect arose as about 100 mostly
> European antiwar activists arrived in Baghdad to stand between a
> U.S.-led force and schools and other sites.


This is quite a different thing from the way I understood the situation when it was first
mentioned here.  Perhaps I misread what was being said, but I took it as a stance that
the shields themselves would be considered war criminals.  That is very different from
considering that the Iraqi military would be considered war criminals for placing even
volunteers in areas that they knew would be attacked.

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:51:42 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:48:09 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:45:44 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> steph wrote:
>>
>> she likes the cat.

> My cleaning woman used to vacuum Pookie. He loved it, but China ran far
> in the other direction.

I don't think that my cat would let me vacuum her.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:54:16 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 09:49:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:44:52 AM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>> Even the use of voluntary human shields would be a war crime, Rumsfeld
>> said. That prospect arose as about 100 mostly
>> European antiwar activists arrived in Baghdad to stand between a
>> U.S.-led force and schools and other sites.


> This is quite a different thing from the way I understood the situation when it was first
> mentioned here.  Perhaps I misread what was being said, but I took it as a stance that
> the shields themselves would be considered war criminals.  That is very different from
> considering that the Iraqi military would be considered war criminals for placing even
> volunteers in areas that they knew would be attacked.

Why would human shield volunteers follow the Iraqi military's
directions? That's the part I don't get.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:58:24 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:54:42 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> > -------------
> > Even the use of voluntary human shields would be a war crime, Rumsfeld
> > said. That prospect arose as about 100 mostly
> > European antiwar activists arrived in Baghdad to stand between a
> > U.S.-led force and schools and other sites.
>
> This is quite a different thing from the way I understood the situation when it was first
> mentioned here.  Perhaps I misread

Or perhaps I misunderstood. But I heard Rumsfeld speak, and I swear he
said that the volunteer shields (not Iraqis) would be considered enemy
combatants. Maybe I misheard.

This sentence from the release is what makes me think that Rumsfeld
meant the volunteer foreign shields themselves, not the Iraqis:

"Even the use of voluntary human shields would be a war crime, Rumsfeld
said. That prospect arose as about 100 mostly European antiwar activists
arrived in Baghdad to stand between a U.S.-led force and schools and
other sites."

Well, it is not clear, I guess.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 09:59:29 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:53:11 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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Well, but the plan is to kill them, so of course they can't stand trial.
But it seems clear to me that they are being accused of collaborating
with the enemy, etc.; under this logic, anyone who survived would
be up for trial as a criminal.

clo

"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:

> > -------------
> > Even the use of voluntary human shields would be a war crime, Rumsfeld
> > said. That prospect arose as about 100 mostly
> > European antiwar activists arrived in Baghdad to stand between a
> > U.S.-led force and schools and other sites.
>
> This is quite a different thing from the way I understood the situation when it was first
> mentioned here.  Perhaps I misread what was being said, but I took it as a stance that
> the shields themselves would be considered war criminals.  That is very different from
> considering that the Iraqi military would be considered war criminals for placing even
> volunteers in areas that they knew would be attacked.
>
> BrP

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Subject: Re:      a damper on the day
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:09:44 -0600
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> I saw the pulmonologist yesterday re: the CT scan. She says that the
> "mass" has greatly increased since the previous one in January. I have
> an appointment on March 10 with a cardio-thoracic surgeon to see if I
am
> sturdy enough for a biopsy to determine if it is cancer (almost surely
> it is, she says) and if it is small- or large-cell. Then treatment
> options (if any) and prognosis come into play.
>
> I debated about telling y'all about this, and didn't do it yesterday.
> But I decided that you are my best friends and that one of best
friends'
> jobs is to listen. So thanks for listening.
>
> alyce

I'm glad you told, and I'm sorry to hear it.
I do not consider illness morbid but just
a part of life, and I think it helps a lot to
have people to talk to about it in a very
normal way.  I'm here to listen and care.

                  - D. M.

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:51:35 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Yahoo! News Story - Charity Charged in Sending Funds to Iraq
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At 05:52 PM 2/26/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
> >
> > I had not heard this on the local news.  I'll have to tune in at 6.
>
>I just heard that the people who have gone to Iraq to be human shields
>are to be considered as war criminals by the Pentagon--aiding the enemy.
>Unbelievable.
>
>alyce

Rumsfeld called them war criminals.

There was a story about these people on NPR late yesterday morning.

The first person they interviewed was a man who had been used as a human
shield in 1990-91. He took exception to people going there today,
voluntarily. He said he wouldn't go as far as Rumsfeld did but he did think
they were taking away from his experience when he was kidnapped, arrested,
beaten and forced into shielding targets with other Americans as well as
entire Iraqi families.

He also said he thought those there were naive for thinking they stood a
chance at always being treated well. Once a war gets started they may find
their positions being changed from targets of war to non-targets of war.

The other person interviewed was a retired, high ranking (I can't remember
his exact rank) army man. He has been involved in organizing groups going
to Iraq. He himself was supposed to go but couldn't because of some lame
excuse.

He thinks this is a great way to protest and realizes the potential danger
once a war starts. The danger, he says, is accepted as a known risk by all
who volunteered.

Personally, I'm totally against people going over there and protesting in
this manner. I do see it as siding with Saddam and I do see him as evil.

lisa



>--
>alyce cresap, books & ephemera
>po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
>518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
>http://www.alybooks.com
>charter member: IOBA
>independent on-line booksellers association
>selling books since 1963

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:56:29 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>,
   WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Arbys r00ls
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At 04:56 PM 2/26/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Marie Ascher wrote:
>
> > Is Arby's everywhere. I thought they got sucked up by Roy Rogers.
>
>They are everywhere around here.  Even wee Starkville has one.
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I can think of one Arby's in the Boston area. I *think* there's one on Rt.
1 in the Milford/Orange area of CT. I don't think I've ever eaten at one.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:09:36 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: a damper on the day
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At 09:44 AM 2/27/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>I saw the pulmonologist yesterday re: the CT scan. She says that the
>"mass" has greatly increased since the previous one in January. I have
>an appointment on March 10 with a cardio-thoracic surgeon to see if I am
>sturdy enough for a biopsy to determine if it is cancer (almost surely
>it is, she says) and if it is small- or large-cell. Then treatment
>options (if any) and prognosis come into play.
>
>I debated about telling y'all about this, and didn't do it yesterday.
>But I decided that you are my best friends and that one of best friends'
>jobs is to listen. So thanks for listening.
>
>alyce

I'm sorry to hear the Alyce. You're in my thoughts and I'll hope for the
best on your behalf.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 10:27:01 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 08:23:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
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Subject: Re: a damper on the day
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> I debated about telling y'all about this, and didn't do it yesterday.
> But I decided that you are my best friends and that one of best friends'
> jobs is to listen. So thanks for listening.

I'm glad you told us, Alyce, keep telling.

Ann

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 10:23:42 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Yahoo! News Story - Charity Charged in Sending Funds to Iraq
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:51:35 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> The other person interviewed was a retired, high ranking (I can't remember
> his exact rank) army man. He has been involved in organizing groups going
> to Iraq. He himself was supposed to go but couldn't because of some lame
> excuse.

This must be the ex-Marine.

> Personally, I'm totally against people going over there and protesting in
> this manner. I do see it as siding with Saddam and I do see him as evil.

Why do you think it's siding with Saddam????

Karen

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Message-ID: <3E5E3C64.8DA3383E@valstar.net>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:27:16 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>
> Well, but the plan is to kill them, so of course they can't stand trial.
> But it seems clear to me that they are being accused of collaborating
> with the enemy, etc.; under this logic, anyone who survived would
> be up for trial as a criminal.


Yes, that is more how I interpreted it.
alyce

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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> I'm glad you told, and I'm sorry to hear it.
> I do not consider illness morbid but just
> a part of life, and I think it helps a lot to
> have people to talk to about it in a very
> normal way.  I'm here to listen and care.

Thanks Doris, and Steph, and Lisa.

alyce

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Alyce, I am very saddened with the thought that you are likely to have a
cancer, but I think it is better that your friends know. You are in my
thoughts. Continue to hope for the best. -- Marie

From: Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM>
>I'm glad you told, and I'm sorry to hear it.
>I do not consider illness morbid

Um...see definition number one for morbid.

Main Entry: mor·bid
Pronunciation: 'mor-b&d
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin morbidus diseased, from morbus disease
Date: 1656
1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of disease <morbid anatomy> b :
affected with or induced by disease <a morbid condition> c : productive of
disease <morbid substances>
2 : abnormally susceptible to or characterized by gloomy or unwholesome
feelings
3 : GRISLY, GRUESOME <morbid details> <morbid curiosity>
- mor·bid·ly adverb
- mor·bid·ness noun

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 11:33:59 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:29:43 -0500
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>From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@ATTBI.COM>
>At 09:19 PM 2/24/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>I do regret having missed Simon and Garfunkel; if I'd known they were
>>going
>>to do the opening, I might have been tempted to tune in for a few minutes.
>
>You didn't miss much. They were terrible. It was painful listening to them.
>They were out of tune and their harmony sucked. I was embarrassed for them.

I know they've sounded better but I still thought they sounded good. I think
this assessment is a little <harsh>. I found it kind of moving -- when's the
last time they performed together?

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 11:37:53 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:34:20 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 11:29:43 AM, Marie Ascher wrote:
[about Simon and Garfunkel]
> I know they've sounded better but I still thought they sounded good. I think
> this assessment is a little <harsh>. I found it kind of moving -- when's the
> last time they performed together?

For a benefit in L.A., I think in 1993. Steve Martin, S&G, and
Neal Young.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 11:42:02 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Arbys r00ls
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:38:15 +0000
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Marie:

>You had lunch at Arby's?

Yup. The guys like the sandwiches and I go for the chicken
fingers and curly fries kiddie meal.

>Is Arby's everywhere. I thought they got sucked up by Roy Rogers.

They're more popular than RR 'round these parts.

-rashmi



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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 11:45:29 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Arbys r00ls
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Karen:

>Jeeze, Rashmi. You're turning into me!

My cow orkers (and the woman at Arby's) gave me a hard time for
taking two days to notice my wallet was missing.

-rashmi


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 11:56:20 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: a damper on the day
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:56:28 -0600
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> From: Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM>
> >I'm glad you told, and I'm sorry to hear it.
> >I do not consider illness morbid
>
> Um...see definition number one for morbid.
>
> Main Entry: mor·bid
> Pronunciation: 'mor-b&d
> Function: adjective
> Etymology: Latin morbidus diseased, from morbus disease
> Date: 1656
> 1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of disease <morbid anatomy> b
:
> affected with or induced by disease <a morbid condition> c :
productive of
> disease <morbid substances>
> 2 : abnormally susceptible to or characterized by gloomy or
unwholesome
> feelings
> 3 : GRISLY, GRUESOME <morbid details> <morbid curiosity>
> - mor·bid·ly adverb
> - mor·bid·ness noun

Bet my bottom dollar definitions 2 and 3
are more commonly associated with the word.

               - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:02:33 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:58:45 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yahoo! News Story - Charity Charged in Sending Funds to Iraq
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02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> > Personally, I'm totally against people going over there and protesting in
> > this manner. I do see it as siding with Saddam and I do see him as evil.
>
> Why do you think it's siding with Saddam????

Isn't there something fundamentally wrong about it? You can't
pin it down ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:09:35 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Arbys r00ls
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:05:48 -0500
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>From: Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>Is Arby's everywhere. I thought they got sucked up by Roy Rogers.
>
>They're more popular than RR 'round these parts.

I just looked at the www.arbys.com website and the one we used to go to when
we were kids is still there -- my mom loves the rb sandwiches. There isn't
one anywhere within a 50 mile radius of here.

But they have nothing to do with Roys -- for some reason I thought they did.
That rb tastes the same.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:11:37 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:07:48 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> >>>I do not consider illness morbid
>
> >> Um...see definition number one for morbid.
> >> 1 a : of, relating to, or characteristic of disease <morbid anatomy> b
>
> *snip*
> >Bet my bottom dollar definitions 2 and 3 are more commonly associated
> with the word."

Re: preferred definitions of "morbidity" -
It may be true today that the word refers more to affect than
to physical condition, but of course #2 & #3 arise from the
notion that gloominess and sorrow are associated with illness.

And I have to say, as one who has sat where Alyce sits, waiting
to hear whether the news is bad or worse, a choice between
determined cheerfulness that ignores the gravity of the situation
on the one hand, or sitting gazing one's mortality in the face on
the other, is very hard to make.

Doris, I interpret your initial comment to be intended as an
expression of concerned support for Alyce should she
choose a path of looking on the bright side and making
the most of each day. In the context of my supposition, I'd
like to add,

Alyce, please know that if you feel you need to try for life as
usual, we are with you; and if you find that you need to address
the fearful aspects of what you are going through, please feel
free to do that as well. This is a tough, tough thing to go through.
Please don't consider our feelings; just trust that we will try to
understand yours.

clo

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:16:59 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 11:41:39 AM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> Karen:

>>Jeeze, Rashmi. You're turning into me!

> My cow orkers (and the woman at Arby's) gave me a hard time for
> taking two days to notice my wallet was missing.

Yes--BTDT. My solution was to buy a purse that basically has a
wallet integrated into it. This way, I can never forget my
wallet. Actually, I like this purse a lot. It's by some designer
I think, maybe Liz Claiborne. It looks like a handbag, but it
fits over my shoulder into my armpit.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:23:59 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <F1075zt47jO9ljL2pf800007740@hotmail.com>           
            <000b01c2de89$8df00b40$6b0332d1@0018079268> 
            <3E5E53F4.EA428D6C@syr.edu>
Subject: Re:      aspects of morbidity
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:24:01 -0600
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>
> Re: preferred definitions of "morbidity" -
> It may be true today that the word refers more to affect than
> to physical condition, but of course #2 & #3 arise from the
> notion that gloominess and sorrow are associated with illness.
>
> And I have to say, as one who has sat where Alyce sits, waiting
> to hear whether the news is bad or worse, a choice between
> determined cheerfulness that ignores the gravity of the situation
> on the one hand, or sitting gazing one's mortality in the face on
> the other, is very hard to make.
>
> Doris, I interpret your initial comment to be intended as an
> expression of concerned support for Alyce should she
> choose a path of looking on the bright side and making
> the most of each day. In the context of my supposition, I'd
> like to add,
>
> Alyce, please know that if you feel you need to try for life as
> usual, we are with you; and if you find that you need to address
> the fearful aspects of what you are going through, please feel
> free to do that as well. This is a tough, tough thing to go through.
> Please don't consider our feelings; just trust that we will try to
> understand yours.
>
> clo


Well said.  Amen.

     - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:25:01 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:21:21 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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> Alyce, please know that if you feel you need to try for life as
> usual, we are with you; and if you find that you need to address
> the fearful aspects of what you are going through, please feel
> free to do that as well. This is a tough, tough thing to go through.
> Please don't consider our feelings; just trust that we will try to
> understand yours.

Thanks. I appreciate your note and understanding. And thanks to Ann
Borkin for your good wishes, too.

So far I am going on as usual, because I have no definite information
that I can act upon. That may (and probably will) change. I am grateful
to all of you for being so nice and understanding. Really.

alyce
>
> clo


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:26:15 2003
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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: a damper on the day
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At 09:44 AM 2/27/2003 -0500, alyce cresap wrote:
>I saw the pulmonologist yesterday re: the CT scan. She says that the
>"mass" has greatly increased since the previous one in January. I have
>an appointment on March 10 with a cardio-thoracic surgeon to see if I am
>sturdy enough for a biopsy to determine if it is cancer (almost surely
>it is, she says) and if it is small- or large-cell. Then treatment
>options (if any) and prognosis come into play.
>
>I debated about telling y'all about this, and didn't do it yesterday.
>But I decided that you are my best friends and that one of best friends'
>jobs is to listen. So thanks for listening.
>
>alyce

Sorry, Alyce, but thanks for telling us.  Crap!

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:28:16 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 12:24:42 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 11:58:45 AM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> 02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> > Personally, I'm totally against people going over there and protesting in
>> > this manner. I do see it as siding with Saddam and I do see him as evil.
>>
>> Why do you think it's siding with Saddam????

> Isn't there something fundamentally wrong about it? You can't
> pin it down ...

Sorry, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:39:28 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:35:45 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Betty Clark wrote:

>  Crap!

Yup
alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:40:27 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: aspects of morbidity
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:36:32 -0500
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>From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU>
>Doris, I interpret your initial comment to be intended as an
>expression of concerned support for Alyce should she
>choose a path of looking on the bright side and making
>the most of each day.

Oh, I know that, and I feel the same. But this is a *words* list after all.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 12:52:35 2003
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> >From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU>
> >Doris, I interpret your initial comment to be intended as an
> >expression of concerned support for Alyce should she
> >choose a path of looking on the bright side and making
> >the most of each day.
>
> Oh, I know that, and I feel the same. But this is a *words* list after
all.
>
> Marie
>

Only for those who have
a morbid preoccupation
with it.  :-)

      - D. M.

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Adam:
>> Ralphie!
> A fine movie in every respect. I have it on DVD.

Yeah, shortly after posting that, I was looking
at Jeff Corwin doing one of his barehanded
grab-the-carnivorous-reptile gags, and after yet
another failure, he said:

"Oh, fudge."

Except he really said "fudge".

--
Richard 2:5     that lumpy tire guy dissed me!

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Marie the Music Critic, on S&G:
> I know they've sounded better but I
> still thought they sounded good.

Yeesh.  How can Paul Simon even perform
in that miasma, that stench of failure
wafting off that other guy?

--
Richard 2:5     that lumpy tire guy dissed me!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:11:16 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:07:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:05:14 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> Marie the Music Critic, on S&G:
>> I know they've sounded better but I
>> still thought they sounded good.

> Yeesh.  How can Paul Simon even perform
> in that miasma, that stench of failure
> wafting off that other guy?

I think he grits his teeth a lot.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:15:43 2003
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> > Marie the Music Critic, on S&G:
> >> I know they've sounded better but I
> >> still thought they sounded good.
>
> > Yeesh.  How can Paul Simon even perform
> > in that miasma, that stench of failure
> > wafting off that other guy?
>
> I think he grits his teeth a lot.
>
> Karen

I thought it was sad when Paul said they hadn't even seen each other in ten years.
In Bridge Over Troubled Water days they were my idols.  I always wanted to sing
like Art.

BrP

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:16:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:11:41 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

>> > Marie the Music Critic, on S&G:
>> >> I know they've sounded better but I
>> >> still thought they sounded good.
>>
>> > Yeesh.  How can Paul Simon even perform
>> > in that miasma, that stench of failure
>> > wafting off that other guy?
>>
>> I think he grits his teeth a lot.
>>
>> Karen

> I thought it was sad when Paul said they hadn't even seen each other in ten years.
> In Bridge Over Troubled Water days they were my idols.  I always wanted to sing
> like Art.

I don't know how he was the other night, but his voice was pretty
bad when I saw them with Karsten. They didn't rehearse until that
day, I think, and they came out from different sides of the stage
and went back the same way. It was grim.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:21:13 2003
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Karen:
> I think he grits his teeth a lot.

Well, I'm sure one of the reasons Simon does
it is because -- as evidenced here -- their
fans like it.

But man, what a sacrifice for your (brace
yourself for it) art.

--
Richard 2:5     that lumpy tire guy dissed me!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:23:27 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:19:36 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:17:28 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> Karen:
>> I think he grits his teeth a lot.

> Well, I'm sure one of the reasons Simon does
> it is because -- as evidenced here -- their
> fans like it.

> But man, what a sacrifice for your (brace
> yourself for it) art.

Well, it's only an hour every 10 years or so. That's not too bad
in the scheme of things.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:25:21 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:15:06 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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At 12:29 PM 2/27/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>>From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@ATTBI.COM>
>>At 09:19 PM 2/24/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>>I do regret having missed Simon and Garfunkel; if I'd known they were
>>>going
>>>to do the opening, I might have been tempted to tune in for a few minutes.
>>
>>You didn't miss much. They were terrible. It was painful listening to them.
>>They were out of tune and their harmony sucked. I was embarrassed for them.
>
>I know they've sounded better but I still thought they sounded good. I think
>this assessment is a little <harsh>. I found it kind of moving -- when's the
>last time they performed together?
>
>Marie


Sorry you think it's harsh. I'm glad you enjoyed it though.

FWIW, I was looking forward to the performance. When they appeared on stage
I got goose bumps. It went down hill from there.

I thought they hadn't performed together in 20 or so years. Karen reported
yesterday that she saw them 10 years ago.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:25:34 2003
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Subject: Re: Yahoo! News Story - Charity Charged in Sending Funds to Iraq
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At 10:23 AM 2/27/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:51:35 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > The other person interviewed was a retired, high ranking (I can't remember
> > his exact rank) army man. He has been involved in organizing groups going
> > to Iraq. He himself was supposed to go but couldn't because of some lame
> > excuse.
>
>This must be the ex-Marine.

Yes, I think you're right. As soon as someone (you?) posted it, it sounded
familiar.


> > Personally, I'm totally against people going over there and protesting in
> > this manner. I do see it as siding with Saddam and I do see him as evil.
>
>Why do you think it's siding with Saddam????
>
>Karen

In all honesty, I can't put it into words.

What I can tell you is this, I'm against the impending war. I support the
protesters who have organized, marched and demonstrated (I'd even join them
if I had a little more time). I do not believe in the people who are acting
as human shields.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:23:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:10:26 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> At 10:23 AM 2/27/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>>Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:51:35 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
>> > The other person interviewed was a retired, high ranking (I can't remember
>> > his exact rank) army man. He has been involved in organizing groups going
>> > to Iraq. He himself was supposed to go but couldn't because of some lame
>> > excuse.
>>
>>This must be the ex-Marine.

> Yes, I think you're right. As soon as someone (you?) posted it, it sounded
> familiar.

It was Alyce, I think, but I'd heard about him before.

>> > Personally, I'm totally against people going over there and protesting in
>> > this manner. I do see it as siding with Saddam and I do see him as evil.
>>
>>Why do you think it's siding with Saddam????
>>
>>Karen

> In all honesty, I can't put it into words.

> What I can tell you is this, I'm against the impending war. I support the
> protesters who have organized, marched and demonstrated (I'd even join them
> if I had a little more time). I do not believe in the people who are acting
> as human shields.

Okay. I just want to understand how it's siding with Saddam.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:25:47 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:15:06 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> I thought they hadn't performed together in 20 or so years. Karen reported
> yesterday that she saw them 10 years ago.

Actually, I had forgotten all about it till I heard on TV that
it's been 10 years, and then I realized that it must have been 10
years since I saw them with Karsten. It was a wonderful evening,
and absolutely the most expensive date I've ever been on.

Karen

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Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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In a message dated 2/27/2003 1:30:54 AM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:

<< No, actually, he is wearing wooden shoes.  I'm just tricking wit ya)
 >>

Shame on you! But I'll forgive you :-), but that still doesn't explain why he
is wearing them. This Dutch gal is just curious.
Theo

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Though I'd never be brave enough to do it and I'm not even sure it is the best
strategy, I totally get that only putting your body on the line seems like it has enough
personal weight in the face of something that is so enormous.  Some of the elder
members of the Syracuse Friends Meeting, when I first started attending, had been
non-combatant medical workers during the Spanish Civil war and based on the
horrors of what they saw there, they went to Germany to try to meet with Hitler and
dissuade him from what they saw coming.  They actually managed to get in to see
Himmler and though their efforts were futile and naïve, I always admired that, in the
face of something monstrous, they ran toward rather than away and tried to do  -
something -anything that they could.


BrP



>
> What I can tell you is this, I'm against the impending war. I support the
> protesters who have organized, marched and demonstrated (I'd even join them
> if I had a little more time). I do not believe in the people who are acting
> as human shields.
>
> lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:41:01 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:36:17 -0500
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: More fun winter fun
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>For the Delaware Valley, mostly just going to be snow. And it could be
>anywhere from 6 inches to 9 inches. Most of us should wind up with 6 inches.
>A few spots will see up to 9 inches.

Bright sunshine bouncing off icy snowpak here in Unreal Maine.

Where is everyone going to stay at SnowBash??


    --bonniev

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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=
= Actually, I had forgotten all about it till I heard on TV that
= it's been 10 years, and then I realized that it must have been 10
= years since I saw them with Karsten. It was a wonderful evening,
= and absolutely the most expensive date I've ever been on.
=
= Karen

Tushar taking you to Trotter's might be more.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:43:31 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:39:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:33:06 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> Though I'd never be brave enough to do it and I'm not even sure
> it is the best strategy, I totally get that only putting your
> body on the line seems like it has enough personal weight in
> the face of something that is so enormous.

Exactly--all of that, the not-brave part and the nothing-less-will-do part.

ET

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:40:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:36:17 PM, bonniev wrote:
> Bright sunshine bouncing off icy snowpak here in Unreal Maine.

I'm reading a mystery written by a woman who lives in Eastport.
About a handywoman named Jacobia. Can't remember her name,
though.

Karen

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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Natalie Maynor:
= steph wrote:
=
= > It is.  Anyone can come.  The more the merrier!  Are you coming
= > with us?
=
= Has a date been set?
=

Nothing besides 2004.  It will depend on when we can best
organize it.  Also, I would guess based on my visit to South
Africa that spring or fall will be better than either winter or
summer.  But that's still just a guess.

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:43:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:39:25 PM, steph wrote:
> = Actually, I had forgotten all about it till I heard on TV that
> = it's been 10 years, and then I realized that it must have been 10
> = years since I saw them with Karsten. It was a wonderful evening,
> = and absolutely the most expensive date I've ever been on.
> =
> = Karen

> Tushar taking you to Trotter's might be more.

Then I guess we'll skip it. Although it was wonderful and I loved
it, I'd never ask anyone to spend that much money on me.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 13:49:51 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 11:47:42 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: a damper on the day
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Shit. Sorry, Alyce. I hope it all works out well.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:50:38 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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Karen Kay:
= Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:39:25 PM, steph wrote:
= > = Actually, I had forgotten all about it till I heard on TV that
= > = it's been 10 years, and then I realized that it must have been 10
= > = years since I saw them with Karsten. It was a wonderful evening,
= > = and absolutely the most expensive date I've ever been on.
= > =
= > = Karen
=
= > Tushar taking you to Trotter's might be more.
=
= Then I guess we'll skip it. Although it was wonderful and I loved
= it, I'd never ask anyone to spend that much money on me.
=

Well, if I'm ever in Chicago the same time you are, I'll take
you if I can swing it.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:00:03 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:33:06 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> > Though I'd never be brave enough to do it and I'm not even sure
> > it is the best strategy, I totally get that only putting your
> > body on the line seems like it has enough personal weight in
> > the face of something that is so enormous.
>
> Exactly--all of that, the not-brave part and the nothing-less-will-do part.
>
> ET

To keep our faces toward change, and behave like free spirits in
the presence of fate, is strength undefeatable.
                           - Helen Keller


BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:00:34 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:57:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:50:38 PM, steph wrote:
> Karen Kay:
> = Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:39:25 PM, steph wrote:
= >> = Actually, I had forgotten all about it till I heard on TV that
= >> = it's been 10 years, and then I realized that it must have been 10
= >> = years since I saw them with Karsten. It was a wonderful evening,
= >> = and absolutely the most expensive date I've ever been on.
= >> =
= >> = Karen
> =
= >> Tushar taking you to Trotter's might be more.
> =
> = Then I guess we'll skip it. Although it was wonderful and I loved
> = it, I'd never ask anyone to spend that much money on me.
> =

> Well, if I'm ever in Chicago the same time you are, I'll take
> you if I can swing it.

What's your guess about how much it costs? On my date with
Karsten, which cost more than his pricey rent at the time, the
biggest expense was the S&G tickets.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:02:30 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:58:54 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:54:04 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:

>> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:33:06 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>> > Though I'd never be brave enough to do it and I'm not even sure
>> > it is the best strategy, I totally get that only putting your
>> > body on the line seems like it has enough personal weight in
>> > the face of something that is so enormous.
>>
>> Exactly--all of that, the not-brave part and the nothing-less-will-do part.
>>
>> ET

> To keep our faces toward change, and behave like free spirits in
> the presence of fate, is strength undefeatable.
>                            - Helen Keller

I love you, man!:)

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:03:10 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I've been thinking a lot about this, and I can't decide whether I
> think this is really sweet or absolutely disgusting.

    The word "stupid" comes to mind.  As is the concept of being a voluntary
"human shield".
    I wonder, though, if or when the attack comes, which way will they be
facing?  That, I think, is the determinant of whose side they're on.

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:06:49 2003
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I think that this claim is an extension of the old story, really - and
it seems that this is where I came into the list. Romeo and Juliet -
who was discussing it with their class? When Mercutio and
Tybalt started fighting, and Romeo stood between them to try
and stop the fight - that's really the position these guys are putting
themselves in; and I am certain they see themselves in the same
way - just trying to help, wanting everybody to cool off so that
a less tragic solution can be found.

And, like Tybalt and Mercutio, Rumsfeld wants to blame those
who try to stop the fight for any ill that comes from his
combativeness. (Of course, unlike them, he is no longer an
adolescent, and should know better).
clo

Karen Kay wrote:

> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:10:26 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> > At 10:23 AM 2/27/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> >>Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:51:35 AM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> >> > The other person interviewed was a retired, high ranking (I can't remember
> >> > his exact rank) army man. He has been involved in organizing groups going
> >> > to Iraq. He himself was supposed to go but couldn't because of some lame
> >> > excuse.
> >>
> >>This must be the ex-Marine.
>
> > Yes, I think you're right. As soon as someone (you?) posted it, it sounded
> > familiar.
>
> It was Alyce, I think, but I'd heard about him before.
>
> >> > Personally, I'm totally against people going over there and protesting in
> >> > this manner. I do see it as siding with Saddam and I do see him as evil.
> >>
> >>Why do you think it's siding with Saddam????
> >>
> >>Karen
>
> > In all honesty, I can't put it into words.
>
> > What I can tell you is this, I'm against the impending war. I support the
> > protesters who have organized, marched and demonstrated (I'd even join them
> > if I had a little more time). I do not believe in the people who are acting
> > as human shields.
>
> Okay. I just want to understand how it's siding with Saddam.
>
> Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:08:20 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:04:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 2:02:59 PM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> I think that this claim is an extension of the old story, really - and
> it seems that this is where I came into the list. Romeo and Juliet -
> who was discussing it with their class?

Rita.

> And, like Tybalt and Mercutio, Rumsfeld wants to blame those
> who try to stop the fight for any ill that comes from his
> combativeness. (Of course, unlike them, he is no longer an
> adolescent, and should know better).

You go, clo!:)

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:09:49 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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= > =
= = >> Tushar taking you to Trotter's might be more.
= > =
= > = Then I guess we'll skip it. Although it was wonderful and I loved
= > = it, I'd never ask anyone to spend that much money on me.
= > =
=
= > Well, if I'm ever in Chicago the same time you are, I'll take
= > you if I can swing it.
=
= What's your guess about how much it costs? On my date with
= Karsten, which cost more than his pricey rent at the time, the
= biggest expense was the S&G tickets.
=
= Karen

Depends on the wine.  The meals alone were in the neighborhood of
$100.  It used to be on their web site, but it's not anymore.
So, maybe your date with Karsten was more.  I forget how
expensive concert tickets in the US can be.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:14:14 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:10:36 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:56:13 PM, John Williams wrote:
>     I wonder, though, if or when the attack comes, which way will they be
> facing?  That, I think, is the determinant of whose side they're on.

Thanks for giving me some insight into the mind of the people who
believe they are siding with Saddam.

It *is* hard for me to understand how any ultimate good can come
of this. But I can see also how someone might feel personally
compelled to do such a thing. I could never call it stupid.

I was reading a book that happened to mention Tarawa, and how
many of the soldiers died there because the water was too deep.
Many of those who survived did so only because so many dead
bodies filled up the space that it was possible for them to walk
to shore. *THAT* was stupid.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:16:03 2003
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 2:09:49 PM, steph wrote:
> Depends on the wine.  The meals alone were in the neighborhood of
> $100.  It used to be on their web site, but it's not anymore.
> So, maybe your date with Karsten was more.  I forget how
> expensive concert tickets in the US can be.

They were $400 each.

I've had several $100 dinners; they were almost always worth it.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:23:03 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:20:39 +0100
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Karen Kay:
= Thursday, February 27, 2003, 2:09:49 PM, steph wrote:
= > Depends on the wine.  The meals alone were in the neighborhood of
= > $100.  It used to be on their web site, but it's not anymore.
= > So, maybe your date with Karsten was more.  I forget how
= > expensive concert tickets in the US can be.
=
= They were $400 each.
=

Jeez.  I'd heard Elton John/Billy Joel was something like $250.
I hope with such outrageous prices, that some of it went to a
good cause.

= I've had several $100 dinners; they were almost always worth it.
=
= Karen

I'm sorry to hear that they weren't all worth it.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:26:20 2003
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 2:20:39 PM, steph wrote:
> Jeez.  I'd heard Elton John/Billy Joel was something like $250.
> I hope with such outrageous prices, that some of it went to a
> good cause.

I don't remember now; I think half of it did. (He bought the
tickets late, so he had to buy them through a scalper.) It was in
a small venue, and there was (obviously) a lot of demand.

> = I've had several $100 dinners; they were almost always worth it.
> =
> = Karen

> I'm sorry to hear that they weren't all worth it.

On the scale of things, it hardly matters.

Karen

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In a message dated 2/27/2003 11:20:44 AM, dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM writes:

<< > Alyce, please know that if you feel you need to try for life as

> usual, we are with you; and if you find that you need to address

> the fearful aspects of what you are going through, please feel

> free to do that as well. This is a tough, tough thing to go through.

> Please don't consider our feelings; just trust that we will try to

> understand yours.

 >>

Same here, Alyce, hang in there.
Theo

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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=
= On the scale of things, it hardly matters.
=
= Karen

indeed.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 14:48:56 2003
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In a message dated 2/27/2003 11:24:55 AM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< > Isn't there something fundamentally wrong about it? You can't
> pin it down ...

Sorry, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Karen

 >>
I don't think I'd have the courage to volunteer for it, but I greatly admire
those who have. Theo

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From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Yahoo! News Story - Charity Charged in Sending Funds to Iraq
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At 01:58 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:54:04 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>
> >> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 1:33:06 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> >> > Though I'd never be brave enough to do it and I'm not even sure
> >> > it is the best strategy, I totally get that only putting your
> >> > body on the line seems like it has enough personal weight in
> >> > the face of something that is so enormous.
> >>
> >> Exactly--all of that, the not-brave part and the nothing-less-will-do
> part.
> >>
> >> ET
>
> > To keep our faces toward change, and behave like free spirits in
> > the presence of fate, is strength undefeatable.
> >                            - Helen Keller
>
>I love you, man!:)
>
>Karen

Geeze, get a room.

Betty

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:51:11 EST
Subject: Re: How 'bout those Grammys?
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In a message dated 2/27/2003 12:12:21 PM, prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU writes:

<< I thought it was sad when Paul said they hadn't even seen each other in
ten years.
In Bridge Over Troubled Water days they were my idols.  I always wanted to
sing
like Art.

BrP
 >>

I only turned it on because they were the two I liked to hear, but I
generally don't care for reward programs, and sadly, they didn't sound as I
had remembered them.
Theo

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:55:02 -0700
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Karen Kay wrote:

> They were $400 each.

    Jeez-Louise, where'd you sit, on the *stage*?

JMW

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:58:56 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Everyone is in mourning--Emmitt Smith just became a free agent,
so he'll be leaving the Dallas Cowboys. Really, the news
announcer was positively morose.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:01:15 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 2:55:02 PM, John Williams wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> They were $400 each.

>     Jeez-Louise, where'd you sit, on the *stage*?

In the upper balcony--just to the left of center. It was one of
those 'once in a lifetime things'.

Karen

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At 02:58 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Everyone is in mourning--Emmitt Smith just became a free agent,
>so he'll be leaving the Dallas Cowboys. Really, the news
>announcer was positively morose.
>
>Karen

He got shafted man!

lisa
make w/ for The BIG Tuna.

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At 03:01 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Thursday, February 27, 2003, 2:55:02 PM, John Williams wrote:
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> >> They were $400 each.
>
> >     Jeez-Louise, where'd you sit, on the *stage*?
>
>In the upper balcony--just to the left of center. It was one of
>those 'once in a lifetime things'.
>
>Karen

I'd go so far as to say, given the performers and the fact the tickers were
bought from scalpers, the price tag wasn't so outrageous.

Emmilou Harris played a tiny room in Davis Sq. last year. The tickets, from
the box office were $250 a shot, with a portion of the proceeds going to
some charity or another.

lisa

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:15:33 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 3:11:18 PM, lisa alfieri wrote:
> I'd go so far as to say, given the performers and the fact the tickers were
> bought from scalpers, the price tag wasn't so outrageous.

Yes. It's just that the idea of spending that much money really takes
your breath away.

> Emmilou Harris played a tiny room in Davis Sq. last year. The tickets, from
> the box office were $250 a shot, with a portion of the proceeds going to
> some charity or another.

Yup.

Karen

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:17:49 -0500
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Subject: expectations
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Just ran across this letter and was struck by how rage is set up by expectation.
BrP
-----------------------------------------
letter to the Times, 8 May 1881
Sir -
I believe the inhabitants of London are under the impression that Letters posted for delivery
within the metropolitan district commonly reach their destination within, at the outside, three
hours of the time of postage. I myself, however, have constantly suffered with irregularities
in the delivery of letters, and I have now got two instances of neglect which I should really
like to have cleared up.
I posted a letter in the Gray's Inn post office on Saturday at half-past 1 o'clock, addressed to
a person living close to Westminster Abbey, which was not delivered till 9 o'clock the same
evening; and I posted another letter in the same post office, addressed to the same place,
which was not delivered till past 4 o'clock in the afternoon. Now, Sir, why is this? If there is
any good reason why letters should not be delivered in less than eight hours after their
postage, let the state of the case be understood: but the belief that one can communicate with
another person in two or three hours whereas in reality the time required is eight or nine,
may be productive of the most disastrous consequences.
I am, Sir, your most obedient servant,
K.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 15:25:29 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:21:41 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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I know this is how I feel about Amazon.com when they say
"normally ships within 24 hours".
clo

"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:

> Just ran across this letter and was struck by how rage is set up by expectation.
> BrP
> -----------------------------------------
> letter to the Times, 8 May 1881
> Sir -
> I believe the inhabitants of London are under the impression that Letters posted for delivery
> within the metropolitan district commonly reach their destination within, at the outside, three
> hours of the time of postage. I myself, however, have constantly suffered with irregularities
> in the delivery of letters, and I have now got two instances of neglect which I should really
> like to have cleared up.
> I posted a letter in the Gray's Inn post office on Saturday at half-past 1 o'clock, addressed to
> a person living close to Westminster Abbey, which was not delivered till 9 o'clock the same
> evening; and I posted another letter in the same post office, addressed to the same place,
> which was not delivered till past 4 o'clock in the afternoon. Now, Sir, why is this? If there is
> any good reason why letters should not be delivered in less than eight hours after their
> postage, let the state of the case be understood: but the belief that one can communicate with
> another person in two or three hours whereas in reality the time required is eight or nine,
> may be productive of the most disastrous consequences.
> I am, Sir, your most obedient servant,
> K.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 15:26:46 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
Organization: Syracuse University Library
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:22:39 -0500
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LOL



> I know this is how I feel about Amazon.com when they say
> "normally ships within 24 hours".
> clo
>
> "Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> > Just ran across this letter and was struck by how rage is set up by expectation.
> > BrP
> > -----------------------------------------
> > letter to the Times, 8 May 1881
> > Sir -
> > I believe the inhabitants of London are under the impression that Letters posted for delivery
> > within the metropolitan district commonly reach their destination within, at the outside, three
> > hours of the time of postage. I myself, however, have constantly suffered with irregularities
> > in the delivery of letters, and I have now got two instances of neglect which I should really
> > like to have cleared up.
> > I posted a letter in the Gray's Inn post office on Saturday at half-past 1 o'clock, addressed to
> > a person living close to Westminster Abbey, which was not delivered till 9 o'clock the same
> > evening; and I posted another letter in the same post office, addressed to the same place,
> > which was not delivered till past 4 o'clock in the afternoon. Now, Sir, why is this? If there is
> > any good reason why letters should not be delivered in less than eight hours after their
> > postage, let the state of the case be understood: but the belief that one can communicate with
> > another person in two or three hours whereas in reality the time required is eight or nine,
> > may be productive of the most disastrous consequences.
> > I am, Sir, your most obedient servant,
> > K.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 15:27:04 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:23:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 3:17:49 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> I believe the inhabitants of London are under the impression that Letters posted for delivery
> within the metropolitan district commonly reach their destination within, at the outside, three
> hours of the time of postage.

What happened??? Why does our mail take so long these days?

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 15:28:22 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:24:45 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
dealing with Difficult People.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 15:30:39 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 13:28:21 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Help me, Part Deux
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>I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
>dealing with Difficult People.

"Choose your fights wisely." Or, on the same note, "Is this a hill I
want to die on?"

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 15:32:18 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:28:43 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 3:28:21 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> "Choose your fights wisely." Or, on the same note, "Is this a hill I
> want to die on?"

Very good! Thank you.

Karen

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mmm.

You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar /
A soft answer turneth away wrath

or perhaps Eeyore:
We can't all, and some of us don't.
-AA  Milne


Karen Kay wrote:

> I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
> dealing with Difficult People.
>
> Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:28:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, lisa alfieri wrote:

>> >They recently put two in Ct. Those were the first New England shops. They
>> >have been causing traffic back ups in their areas and most residents are
>> >not at all pleased about it.
>>
>>Um, is that not contradictory?
>>
>>Bethany
>
>Um, what's contradictory?

Traffic back ups and "most residents." It's like "Nobody goes there
anymore -it's too crowded."

Bethany

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 14:40:58 -0700
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Thanks for giving me some insight into the mind of the people who
> believe they are siding with Saddam.

    I don't know about that, but you're welcome, I guess.

> It *is* hard for me to understand how any ultimate good can come
> of this.

    Because it can't, except to give them street creds among their fellows.

> But I can see also how someone might feel personally
> compelled to do such a thing.

    I can as well.

> I could never call it stupid.

    I can.  Its less than useless.  Prayer is more effective.

> I was reading a book that happened to mention Tarawa, and how
> many of the soldiers died there because the water was too deep.

    Tarawa was a cakewalk compared to what followed and should never have been
assaulted in the first place.  The Gilberts weren't necessary.  Holland Smith
and Chesty Puller should have said, "No Amtraks, no attack."  But, they
couldn't have made it over the seawall in any event, so I guess the whole thing
is the Corps Pickett's Charge.

JMW

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:50:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 3:28:17 PM, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:

> On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, lisa alfieri wrote:

>>> >They recently put two in Ct. Those were the first New England shops. They
>>> >have been causing traffic back ups in their areas and most residents are
>>> >not at all pleased about it.
>>>
>>>Um, is that not contradictory?
>>>
>>>Bethany
>>
>>Um, what's contradictory?

> Traffic back ups and "most residents." It's like "Nobody goes there
> anymore -it's too crowded."

If the residents were going, they'd walk, presumably. It's the
people outside of the neighborhood who drive.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 16:08:17 2003
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On Thu, 27 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

>>>> >They recently put two in Ct. Those were the first New England shops. They
>>>> >have been causing traffic back ups in their areas and most residents are
>>>> >not at all pleased about it.
>>>>
>>>>Um, is that not contradictory?
>>>>
>>>>Bethany
>>>
>>>Um, what's contradictory?
>
>> Traffic back ups and "most residents." It's like "Nobody goes there
>> anymore -it's too crowded."
>
>If the residents were going, they'd walk, presumably. It's the
>people outside of the neighborhood who drive.
>

Ah - okay. It's the neighborhood residents who are unhappy. Thanks.

Bethany

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:02:29 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
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>
> I really like the Wild's log cabin.  I love the openness of the great room
> downstairs.
>
> Betty

Thank you, Betty.  It has much more 'stuff' in it now, because of Edward.
I've started Spring cleaning to create more openness.  I find it just takes
some extremely cold housebound days to send the clutter bug scurrying.
With him out of the way I can toss with abandon!

Terry

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Karen:
> I was reading a book that happened to mention Tarawa, and how

Apropos of nothing, but Ed Wood served at Tarawa.

I don't know why that factoid pleases me, perhaps
because, in my mind, I can replace the unspeakable
reality with an image of a guy in a feather boa and
a really REALLY soft sweater charging the beach and
winning the war.

--
Richard 2:5     that lumpy tire guy dissed me!

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In a message dated 02/27/2003 8:44:35 AM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<
I saw the pulmonologist yesterday re: the CT scan. She says that the
"mass" has greatly increased since the previous one in January.
>>

Oh, Alyce, I'm sorry!

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:55:01 -0600
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 4:34:42 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> Karen:
>> I was reading a book that happened to mention Tarawa, and how

> Apropos of nothing, but Ed Wood served at Tarawa.

> I don't know why that factoid pleases me, perhaps
> because, in my mind, I can replace the unspeakable
> reality with an image of a guy in a feather boa and
> a really REALLY soft sweater charging the beach and
> winning the war.

Oh. My. God.

I'm sorry I brought it up!

Karen

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Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> Shit. Sorry, Alyce. I hope it all works out well.

I hope. Thanks.
alyce

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:59:30 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: a damper on the day
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I'm sorry for the not-so-good news.  I was sure the mass
would have disapeared by now.  Thanks for letting us know.
I am sure you will now make sure everything is done
according to *your* wishes -- doctors won't pressure you
into anything you don't want.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 17:09:12 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:05:56 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: It's a proven fact
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Bookrat wrote:

>>       Today, during discussions of why the conflict in Romeo and
>>Juliet might arise, they dissected why "things are
>>different" now for teenagers, how I just couldn't understand
>>what dating is like for them, and furthermore, how it would
>>be impossible for me to get a date now.  Apparently, I lack
>>something called "pimp juice."  It was all way too hilarious.
>>
>
>>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>>
>
> May I suggest that you chase this URL, paying particular attention to panel 4?
>
> http://www.fried.com/pics/old.gif


        LOL!  BTW, I think those are the new sneakers that don't have
laces, not wooden shoes.  But my school tends to look more
like "That 70's Show" than anything futuristic.  What's old
is new again!  Lots of long hair, ratty clothes,  and a few
of my boys have afros that are half again as tall as they
are :).




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 17:09:58 2003
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Karen, horrified that Ed Wood won the war:
> I'm sorry I brought it up!

It gets worse.

Both my Dad *and* my Mom fought the war,
and they were even weirder than Ed Wood.

--
Richard 2:5     that lumpy tire guy dissed me!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 17:11:12 2003
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> I'm sorry for the not-so-good news.  I was sure the mass
> would have disapeared by now.

I thought so too, because I felt so fine in the hospital. I will try to
do it my way, although I don't know yet what my way is.

Good luck to you tomorrow!

alyce

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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 5:06:14 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:

> Karen, horrified that Ed Wood won the war:
>> I'm sorry I brought it up!

> It gets worse.

> Both my Dad *and* my Mom fought the war,
> and they were even weirder than Ed Wood.

Prove it. Tell me a story!

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 17:20:27 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Bummer. I'm so sorry, Alyce. Sending good thoughts your way.

-rashmi




_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:15:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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alyce, I am sorry about your negative news.

Please continue to share the news with us ...

Bethany

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Karen:
> Prove it. Tell me a story!

Hah!  As if I'd do that here.

But the abridged version begins with "Well, when
a Catholic and a Christian Scientist love each
other very much..."

And ends with "...did many other things as well.
If every one were written down, I suppose that
even the whole world would not have room


I'd better stop now.

--
Richard 2:5     that lumpy tire guy dissed me!

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:32:56 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 5:29:28 PM, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
> Karen:
>> Prove it. Tell me a story!

> Hah!  As if I'd do that here.

Back-channel then, or you can phone me: 512-977-8817.

> But the abridged version begins with "Well, when
> a Catholic and a Christian Scientist love each
> other very much..."

> And ends with "...did many other things as well.

:)

> If every one were written down, I suppose that
> even the whole world would not have room

The telling of family stories is vastly underrated by the younger
generation; I'm afraid there will be far too much room.

> I'd better stop now.

As if.

Most other people's family stories make my family look *SO*
normal.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:40:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 3:40:58 PM, John Williams wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Thanks for giving me some insight into the mind of the people who
>> believe they are siding with Saddam.

>     I don't know about that, but you're welcome, I guess.

I understand that you're not speaking for all people that feel
that way, but you presented something that makes sense.

>> It *is* hard for me to understand how any ultimate good can come
>> of this.

>     Because it can't, except to give them street creds among their fellows.

I don't think 'street cred' has anything to do with it.

>> But I can see also how someone might feel personally
>> compelled to do such a thing.

>     I can as well.

>> I could never call it stupid.

>     I can.  Its less than useless.  Prayer is more effective.

I think this is physical prayer.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 15:51:53 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
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>Karen:
>>  I was reading a book that happened to mention Tarawa, and how
>
>Apropos of nothing, but Ed Wood served at Tarawa.
>
>I don't know why that factoid pleases me, perhaps
>because, in my mind, I can replace the unspeakable
>reality with an image of a guy in a feather boa and
>a really REALLY soft sweater charging the beach and
>winning the war.

I've read a theory, which jibes with my personal experience, that a
disproportionately high percentage of crossdressers have served in
combat. Never seen any actual numbers, though.

Janet

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:02:32 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
> dealing with Difficult People.

These are the 0-0s ... where we know how to deal with wussies

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 18:08:32 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:04:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:02:32 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> 02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
>> dealing with Difficult People.

> These are the 0-0s ... where we know how to deal with wussies

Er, thanks.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 17:05:41 -0700
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>
> >
> >Apropos of nothing, but Ed Wood served at Tarawa.

    And Eddie Albert was a coxswain on a LCVP.

> I've read a theory, which jibes with my personal experience, that a
> disproportionately high percentage of crossdressers have served in
> combat. Never seen any actual numbers, though.
>
> Janet

    I was reminded today of a more than passing simularity between the
Spartans and the USMC in some of their off-duty pursuits.

JMW

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:09:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 3:31:41 PM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar /

This one is good.

> A soft answer turneth away wrath

I'm not sure if I can use this one.

> or perhaps Eeyore:
> We can't all, and some of us don't.
> -AA  Milne

I'm not sure that this is clear enough.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:11:20 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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Sorry. Put in context, it's a little clearer :

re: dealing with difficult people,
"we can't all, and some of us don't".

But it was actually meant as a joke, rather than as a helpful
response. Sorry. As we say in the 'hood, "my bad".
clo

Karen Kay wrote:

> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 3:31:41 PM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> > You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar /
>
> This one is good.
>
> > A soft answer turneth away wrath
>
> I'm not sure if I can use this one.
>
> > or perhaps Eeyore:
> > We can't all, and some of us don't.
> > -AA  Milne
>
> I'm not sure that this is clear enough.
>
> Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:17:47 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:11:20 PM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:

> Sorry. Put in context, it's a little clearer :

> re: dealing with difficult people,
> "we can't all, and some of us don't".

> But it was actually meant as a joke, rather than as a helpful
> response. Sorry. As we say in the 'hood, "my bad".

No, no bad involved. Now that you've explained it, I laughed.:)

I was more thinking of conflict, and "we can't all, and some of
us don't" doesn't work for that.

But you know, I might be able to use this... as a counterexample.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:27:38 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: a damper on the day
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>I'm sorry for the not-so-good news.  I was sure the mass
>>would have disapeared by now.
>>
>
> I thought so too, because I felt so fine in the hospital. I will try to
> do it my way, although I don't know yet what my way is.
>
> Good luck to you tomorrow!


        Thanks.  I bet I've just got some weird virus, as usual.  At
any rate, it's a day off, and that's not bad.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:31:33 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
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02003-02-27 | Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU> writes:
> I think that this claim is an extension of the old story, really - and
> it seems that this is where I came into the list. Romeo and Juliet -
> who was discussing it with their class? When Mercutio and Tybalt started
> fighting, and Romeo stood between them to try and stop the fight - that's
> really the position these guys are putting themselves in;

There are differences, however. Romeo is a son--or more generally
let's say that those are *families* warring. It is not problematic
in the least for people like us to side with Romeo, because it is
obvious that a family vendetta of forgotten origins, and no purpose
except revenge and one-upping, is evil. That is not the case here.
For one, we do NOT believe that the two sides are on equal moral
standing--the enemy is in fact a lowlife while "we" are ambiguous
at worst. Secondly, the sides are not matched, which means the
clear logic of vendetta-breeds-more-vendetta is muddied. That, in
fact, is the ESSENCE of a particularly despicable argument, i.e.
that it will all be over in a month, so why sweat it--despicable
because it drowns out worst-case scenarios, ripple effects, inter-
national precedents, or anything a slightly sensitive person might
consider, by the simple trick of shouting louder ... Anyway, the
third point of difference--and now we come to something even more
despicable--is that protesters don't have the same authority as
a scion had. How did that happen? Simple--if you label them as
freaks, paranoids, people without anything better to do, soft-
headed idiots, unpragmatic idealists, unpatriotic, etc etc, they
will soon be seen as unrepresentative. The situation would only
be like Romeo if some hawkish high-profile civilian did this ...
no-name people can be criminalized without much controversy.
Anyhow, I admit that this is sort of muddled, but I am not sure
why it "feels" wrong to be a human shield, and maybe it's just
some unthinking reaction ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 18:37:18 2003
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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Help me, Part Deux
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02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:02:32 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > 02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
> >> dealing with Difficult People.
>
> > These are the 0-0s ... where we know how to deal with wussies
>
> Er, thanks.

It's paraphrased from Mike Judge so you'd better like it.

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Doris Markland wrote:
to Alyce
> > I debated about telling y'all about this, and didn't do it yesterday.
> > But I decided that you are my best friends and that one of best
> friends'
> > jobs is to listen. So thanks for listening.

> I'm glad you told, and I'm sorry to hear it.
> I do not consider illness morbid but just
> a part of life, and I think it helps a lot to
> have people to talk to about it in a very
> normal way.  I'm here to listen and care.

And I'm sure like many others, I'll always be here to listen and care.
That's what this list is for in spite of its bite.
I'm very sorry and I wish I were closer to you in miles so I could
really be there.

--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 16:34:46 -0800
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Karen Kay writes,

>I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
>dealing with Difficult People.

Illegitimi non carborundum.

<http://www.santacruzpl.org/readyref/files/a-b/bastard.shtml>

Pete

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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:33:33 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> 02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:02:32 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>> > 02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> >> I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
>> >> dealing with Difficult People.
>>
>> > These are the 0-0s ... where we know how to deal with wussies
>>
>> Er, thanks.

> It's paraphrased from Mike Judge so you'd better like it.

Mike Judge?

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 18:41:35 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:38:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:34:46 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:

> Karen Kay writes,

>>I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
>>dealing with Difficult People.

> Illegitimi non carborundum.

> <http://www.santacruzpl.org/readyref/files/a-b/bastard.shtml>

I guess I wasn't clear: I want something positive and uplifting.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:40:46 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Here's a good one about conflict:

"Don't be afraid of opposition. Remember, a kite rises against;
not with; the wind." -- Hamilton Mabie.

Though I don't know who Hamilton Mabie is.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 18:47:29 2003
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At 06:38 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>I guess I wasn't clear: I want something positive and uplifting.

It's a question of mind over matter---you don't mind and they don't matter.

Or, as Jimmy Buffett would put it---it doesn't matter, and what if did?

cwv

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 18:48:25 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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This expresses part of why I admire the people who are willing to
be human shields rather than Rumsfeld.

"It is hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of
making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of
people who pay no price for being wrong." --Thomas Sowell

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 19:14:12 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:10:26 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Help me, Part Deux
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02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:33:33 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > 02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:02:32 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >> > 02003-02-27 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> >> I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
> >> >> dealing with Difficult People.
> >>
> >> > These are the 0-0s ... where we know how to deal with wussies
> >>
> >> Er, thanks.
>
> > It's paraphrased from Mike Judge so you'd better like it.
>
> Mike Judge?

Yes. The original was more like "Those were the 50s ...", who
remembers now ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 19:21:09 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:15:06 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: a damper on the day
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Alyce,

   My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Terry

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 19:30:01 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:26:43 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: fluffy snow
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We got a pretty, fluffy snow this afternoon... just like the
snow we had Christmas Eve.  My kids were complaining today
until reminded them what a sauna my room will be by the end
of next month :).  It looks lovely clinging to the butterfly
bushes in front of my bedroom window.

In other news, I wish they'd either quit giving me kids from
the group home, or if they're going to give them to me,
allow them to stay in class.  I got four kids a month into
the semester, and they're on in-house all the time.  How am
I supposed to get them through freshman English if they
aren't in the class most of the time?  My other group home
kid has been pulled from my class by the detective assigned
to our school two days in a row.  I'm not wild about that,
either.

And speaking of in-house, I've got another kid in there
because she freakin' handed in two essays from
FreeEssays.com.  How stupid can you be?  She was muy upset
when I confronted her today, but sheesh.  I wish I didn't
have this gut feeling that this is a cry for help from her. Ugh.
--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 19:30:37 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:30:29 -0600
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> >
> > > What I can tell you is this, I'm against the impending war. I
support the
> > > protesters who have organized, marched and demonstrated (I'd even
join them
> > > if I had a little more time). I do not believe in the people who
are acting
> > > as human shields.
> >
> > Okay. I just want to understand how it's siding with Saddam.
> >
> > Karen


The human shields strike me much like the
suicide bombers do.

They are saying "see, I am putting my life on
the line, willing to die . . . . then the world will
listen, then they will see how angry I am."

Remember my post about the overwhelming
growing level of anger in the world . . that did
not have its beginnings recently but has been
fed by recent events?  For some people that
anger needs an outlet now, without waiting
for some kind of human resolution.

No comment about right or wrong, that's
just what I see.

           - D. M.

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Karen Kay writes,

>I guess I wasn't clear: I want something positive and uplifting.

Hmpfh.

During the American Civil War, Abraham Lincoln made a speech in which he
referred sympathetically to the Southern rebels. An elderly lady, a staunch
Unionist, upbraided him for speaking kindly of his enemies when he ought to
be thinking of destroying them. His reply was classic: "Why, madam,"
Lincoln answered, "do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?

(from Getting Past No: Negotiating with Difficult People, W. Ury, (Bantam
Books, New York/ Toronto London/Sydney, 1991), p. 146.)

Pete

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-27 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
> The human shields strike me much like the
> suicide bombers do.
>
> They are saying "see, I am putting my life on
> the line, willing to die . . . . then the world will
> listen, then they will see how angry I am."
>
> Remember my post about the overwhelming
> growing level of anger in the world . .

Whew, I don't have the most surreal reaction after all ...

Was there sadness expressed in this post further down?
That would definitely be a nice touch.

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Doris Markland writes,

>Remember my post about the overwhelming growing level of anger in the
>world . .

You might like a letter Dr. Christiane Northrup sent to her newsletter
subscribers, which conveys her "... unshakable belief that each of us has
the power, through our thoughts and emotions, to influence the energy of
the planet in a way that helps prevent further conflict and also creates
peace. Here's what you can do."

http://www.intouchmag.com/signs.html
http://www.bellydance.com/featured.htm
http://www.ourhidingplace.com/hosted/dorit/archives/00000314.html

(Same letter on each site, take your pick.  N.B. if you're allergic to new
age stuff, don't chase the URL.)

Pete

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:15:10 -0600
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:05:04 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:

> At 07:45 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>>I am allergic to Christiane Northrup for any number of reasons.
>>That woman gives me the willies.

> Rx:  2 oz good gin
>          6 drops dry vermouth
>          1 or 2 queen or larger olives.
>          ice

> Shake first two ingredients with the ice, pour over the other
> ingredient.  Sip slowly as you contemplate the music of the spheres.  If
> you don't hear the spheres, you've used too much vermouth.

Dang. I wish I could come visit you guys this summer!

Karen

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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 7:30:29 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> They are saying "see, I am putting my life on
> the line, willing to die . . . . then the world will
> listen, then they will see how angry I am."

I find this a bizarre interpretation. I see selfless love and
courage, not anger.

> Remember my post about the overwhelming
> growing level of anger in the world . . that did
> not have its beginnings recently but has been
> fed by recent events?  For some people that
> anger needs an outlet now, without waiting
> for some kind of human resolution.

> No comment about right or wrong, that's
> just what I see.

Where do you find the anger?  I'm very curious.

Karen

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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 7:30:25 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> 02003-02-27 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
>> The human shields strike me much like the
>> suicide bombers do.
>>
>> They are saying "see, I am putting my life on
>> the line, willing to die . . . . then the world will
>> listen, then they will see how angry I am."
>>
>> Remember my post about the overwhelming
>> growing level of anger in the world . .

> Whew, I don't have the most surreal reaction after all ...

LOL. No. I think we agree on this.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:43:30 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 7:26:43 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
> And speaking of in-house, I've got another kid in there

What does 'in-house' mean?

Karen

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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 7:40:03 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
> (Same letter on each site, take your pick.  N.B. if you're allergic to new
> age stuff, don't chase the URL.)

I am allergic to Christiane Northrup for any number of reasons.
That woman gives me the willies.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:45:32 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 7:28:36 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
> Karen Kay writes,
>>I guess I wasn't clear: I want something positive and uplifting.

> Hmpfh.

:)

> During the American Civil War, Abraham Lincoln made a speech in which he
> referred sympathetically to the Southern rebels. An elderly lady, a staunch
> Unionist, upbraided him for speaking kindly of his enemies when he ought to
> be thinking of destroying them. His reply was classic: "Why, madam,"
> Lincoln answered, "do I not destroy my enemies when I make them my friends?

> (from Getting Past No: Negotiating with Difficult People, W. Ury, (Bantam
> Books, New York/ Toronto London/Sydney, 1991), p. 146.)

Perfect! Thank you.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:54:18 -0600
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:43:38 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:

> At 06:38 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>I guess I wasn't clear: I want something positive and uplifting.

> It's a question of mind over matter---you don't mind and they don't matter.

This is for a training module for people who are managers--I
don't think this would set the right tone.

Karen

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At 07:54 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>This is for a training module for people who are managers--I
>don't think this would set the right tone.

Well then, they mostly are beyond hope.  However, I remember something from
one of TVA's abortive efforts to make a manager out of me.  In terms of
corporate/managerial conflict, the "shootout" is an attractive idea.  The
problem, however, is that a shootout is only successful/effective if your
opponent (figuratively) dies.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 20:25:33 2003
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Karen,

The most uplifting book I have seen for management was a book
from the fifties called "Let's Be Human". It's kind of cute and fun.

But my resident expert says that he is convinced most conflict in
the workplace is the result of defensive behavior, and the best
results will come if you can find a good way of explaining that in
simple language - fwiw.

resident expert - spouse, who works in management and customer
relations in an actual company, as opposed to the rarified air of
academia.

clo

Karen Kay wrote:

> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 6:43:38 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
>
> > At 06:38 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
> >>I guess I wasn't clear: I want something positive and uplifting.
>
> > It's a question of mind over matter---you don't mind and they don't matter.
>
> This is for a training module for people who are managers--I
> don't think this would set the right tone.
>
> Karen

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At 07:45 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>I am allergic to Christiane Northrup for any number of reasons.
>That woman gives me the willies.

Rx:  2 oz good gin
         6 drops dry vermouth
         1 or 2 queen or larger olives.
         ice

Shake first two ingredients with the ice, pour over the other
ingredient.  Sip slowly as you contemplate the music of the spheres.  If
you don't hear the spheres, you've used too much vermouth.

cwv

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:10:59 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:01:02 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> However, I remember something from one of TVA's abortive
> efforts to make a manager out of me. In terms of
> corporate/managerial conflict, the "shootout" is an attractive
> idea. The problem, however, is that a shootout is only
> successful/effective if your opponent (figuratively) dies.

Who is this idea atttractive to???

This module mostly deals with managing down rather than managing
up.

Karen

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As I have been living with one of this species for a score of years
now, I would report that managers are able to absorb some new
information!

One beginning point is to talk about the behavior of young children.
Many young managers have young kids themselves, or remember
being kids, or having siblings. By talking about sandbox behavior,
you take the urgency and criticism out of what could be
uncomfortable talk, and they can poke a little fun at people who
irritate them.

Examples of sandbox rules that people bring with them to the
workplace:

All the toys are mine.
All the toys you play with are mine, and I want them as soon
as I see that you want them.
If it's broken, I didn't do it (even if I did).
If I don't like it, someone must be doing it to me (looking for
a way to place blame)
etc.

The point of understanding from this perspective is
a) sandbox rules don't necessarily work. You have to learn
to replace them as you become an adult - something that
most managers pride themselves on doing.
b) if someone is operating from a sandbox rulebook you have
to respond to them in a way that doesn't challenge them to do
what young children do - fight over toys. You have to convince
them that they will gain more by acting like adults, and you
have to make them feel safe enough in the adult world that
they won't have to run for a plastic shovel to hit you with.
(this is that defensive behavior thing).

probably not what you're looking for either - but it has worked
for *my* manager, and he was able to generalize enough to use
it with *his* managers, and to pass it on to subordinates in
training for their use with customers.
clo

"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:

> At 07:54 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>
> >This is for a training module for people who are managers--I
> >don't think this would set the right tone.
>
> Well then, they mostly are beyond hope.  However, I remember something from
> one of TVA's abortive efforts to make a manager out of me.  In terms of
> corporate/managerial conflict, the "shootout" is an attractive idea.  The
> problem, however, is that a shootout is only successful/effective if your
> opponent (figuratively) dies.
>
> cwv

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:14:18 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:01:34 PM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> But my resident expert says that he is convinced most conflict in
> the workplace is the result of defensive behavior, and the best
> results will come if you can find a good way of explaining that in
> simple language - fwiw.

Done. I talk a lot about fighting fairly. I also try to explain
that we are all difficult in one way or another, depending on who
we're dealing with.

When I was writing this, I went through a strange variety of
Intern's Disease in which I became every kind of difficult person
I was writing about.

Karen

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:22:44 -0600
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Kaminski" <kaminski@ISTORI.COM>
To: <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2003 7:40 PM
Subject: Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)


> Doris Markland writes,
>
> >Remember my post about the overwhelming growing level of anger in the
> >world . .
>
> You might like a letter Dr. Christiane Northrup sent to her newsletter
> subscribers, which conveys her "... unshakable belief that each of us
has
> the power, through our thoughts and emotions, to influence the energy
of
> the planet in a way that helps prevent further conflict and also
creates
> peace. Here's what you can do."
>
> ://www.intouchmag.com/signs.html
> http://www.bellydance.com/featured.htmhttp
> http://www.ourhidingplace.com/hosted/dorit/archives/00000314.html
>
> (Same letter on each site, take your pick.  N.B. if you're allergic to
new
> age stuff, don't chase the URL.)
>
> Pete

Excellent.  I believe in inner guidance and in
the positive influence of helping individuals
to find peace within themselves . . and group
energies being directed toward peace in
communities, nations, the world.  I have
participated in such things since 1972.

              - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 20:25:38 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:21:42 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I think it's not unprecedented for a Wordsler to ask for Survivor
discussion to be held for 24 hours, right?  I wouldn't want to be
<pushy> about it.  I taped it and will watch it tomorrow night.  I
suddenly remembered in the middle of my 5-7 party that I'd forgotten to
put a tape in the vcr (and I knew the party would go on past 7 of
course, plus I like to clean up immediately after a party).  But I
rushed and put a tape in mid-party and set the timer.  So I'll be able
to watch it first thing tomorrow night.

If you feel compelled to discuss it before then, please be kind and put
SURVIVOR in the subject header.  I will be much obliged for your
kindness.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:31:30 -0600
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> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 7:30:29 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> > They are saying "see, I am putting my life on
> > the line, willing to die . . . . then the world will
> > listen, then they will see how angry I am."
>
> I find this a bizarre interpretation. I see selfless love and
> courage, not anger.
>
> > Remember my post about the overwhelming
> > growing level of anger in the world . . that did
> > not have its beginnings recently but has been
> > fed by recent events?  For some people that
> > anger needs an outlet now, without waiting
> > for some kind of human resolution.
>
> > No comment about right or wrong, that's
> > just what I see.
>
> Where do you find the anger?  I'm very curious.
>
> Karen

I don't want to get into a big discussion nor
try to prove anything.  There is no one answer
for anything, but many.

Quite obviously people in the Middle East have
anger and I don't need to recount all the reasons
for their anger, which has been building over a
long time.

The human shields may be angered by what
they consider unreasonable threat against
a fellow humanbeing or whatever.  Anger is
strong enough to get people out of their chairs
and moving into action, much more so than
the gentler feelings, which they may also have.

                      - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 20:32:38 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:28:43 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> >Is Arby's everywhere. I thought they got sucked up by Roy Rogers.
>
> They're more popular than RR 'round these parts.

RR?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@noxiousweeds.net>
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On 27 Feb 2003 at 20:21, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> I think it's not unprecedented for a Wordsler to ask for Survivor
> discussion to be held for 24 hours, right?

Would it be unprecedented for one to ask for Survivor discussion to
be held in perpetuity?

   mem

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:31:24 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
> > > this manner. I do see it as siding with Saddam and I do see him as evil.
> >
> > Why do you think it's siding with Saddam????
>
> Isn't there something fundamentally wrong about it? You can't
> pin it down ...

I would definitely not call it "siding with Saddam," but there is
nevertheless something about it that bothers me.  I can't <pin down>
exactly what.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Marie Ascher wrote:

> But they have nothing to do with Roys -- for some reason I thought they did.
> That rb tastes the same.

Oh.  Now I know what RR is.  I'd forgotten the association.  Dumb for
somebody who grew up watching Roy Rogers at the Pix every Saturday
afternoon.  But I don't think I've ever seen his food places.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 20:40:37 2003
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Subject: Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
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At 07:30 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, you wrote:
> > >
> > > > What I can tell you is this, I'm against the impending war. I
>support the
> > > > protesters who have organized, marched and demonstrated (I'd even
>join them
> > > > if I had a little more time). I do not believe in the people who
>are acting
> > > > as human shields.
> > >
> > > Okay. I just want to understand how it's siding with Saddam.
> > >
> > > Karen
>
>
>The human shields strike me much like the
>suicide bombers do.
>
>They are saying "see, I am putting my life on
>the line, willing to die . . . . then the world will
>listen, then they will see how angry I am."
>
>Remember my post about the overwhelming
>growing level of anger in the world . . that did
>not have its beginnings recently but has been
>fed by recent events?  For some people that
>anger needs an outlet now, without waiting
>for some kind of human resolution.
>
>No comment about right or wrong, that's
>just what I see.

What are you seeing??

Betty

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:36:51 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> I am grateful
> to all of you for being so nice and understanding. Really.

We *care* about you.  You are not just a casual acquaintance, you know.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 20:43:06 2003
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At 08:10 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>Who is this idea atttractive to???
>
>This module mostly deals with managing down rather than managing
>up.

Attractive, I don't know.  It is mostly applicable to interactions on the
same (or roughly equivalent) level.

cwv

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At 04:26 PM 2/27/2003 -1000, mem wrote:

>Would it be unprecedented for one to ask for Survivor discussion to
>be held in perpetuity?

...at least that long...

cwv

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:42:06 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> What I can tell you is this, I'm against the impending war. I support the
> protesters who have organized, marched and demonstrated (I'd even join them
> if I had a little more time). I do not believe in the people who are acting
> as human shields.

I "believe in them" in that I believe that their hearts are in the right
place, that they are trying to help this screwed-up world, etc.  Yet
there's still something about it that bothers me, and I know I would not
consider doing that even if I had no fear of personal harm from it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 20:49:16 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:45:41 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:42:06 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I "believe in them" in that I believe that their hearts are in the right
> place, that they are trying to help this screwed-up world, etc.  Yet
> there's still something about it that bothers me, and I know I would not
> consider doing that even if I had no fear of personal harm from it.

Do you think that it's not your fight?

Karen

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steph wrote:
>  I forget how
> expensive concert tickets in the US can be.

This isn't about how expensive concert tickets can be since I don't
know, but it reminded me to report that one of my lunch group went to an
Elton John & Billy Joel concert in Bham last weekend and said that Elton
was wonderful but that Billy was sad.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:31:30 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> Quite obviously people in the Middle East have
> anger and I don't need to recount all the reasons
> for their anger, which has been building over a
> long time.

Right, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

> The human shields may be angered by what
> they consider unreasonable threat against
> a fellow humanbeing or whatever.  Anger is
> strong enough to get people out of their chairs
> and moving into action, much more so than
> the gentler feelings, which they may also have.

I find it frankly rather appalling that anyone would state with
such certainty that anger is a stronger, longer-lasting emotion
than love. I think that anger may get people moving, but it won't
sustain them day after day. But as you say, there is more than
one answer.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:57:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Help me, Par Dieu!
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:12:12 PM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> As I have been living with one of this species for a score of years
> now, I would report that managers are able to absorb some new
> information!

Good for him--and for you.:)

> One beginning point is to talk about the behavior of young children.
> Many young managers have young kids themselves, or remember
> being kids, or having siblings. By talking about sandbox behavior,
> you take the urgency and criticism out of what could be
> uncomfortable talk, and they can poke a little fun at people who
> irritate them.

I would find this patronizing in the extreme, but I don't have
children.

> The point of understanding from this perspective is
> a) sandbox rules don't necessarily work. You have to learn
> to replace them as you become an adult - something that
> most managers pride themselves on doing.

Yep.

> b) if someone is operating from a sandbox rulebook you have
> to respond to them in a way that doesn't challenge them to do
> what young children do - fight over toys. You have to convince
> them that they will gain more by acting like adults, and you
> have to make them feel safe enough in the adult world that
> they won't have to run for a plastic shovel to hit you with.
> (this is that defensive behavior thing).

Actually, I like this image, of someone running to find a plastic
shovel to hit you with. I have worked places like that.

> probably not what you're looking for either -

No. I'm pretty much done with this conflict resolution stuff for
now.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 20:58:29 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:

> Jeez.  I'd heard Elton John/Billy Joel was something like $250.

How weird.  I mean weird that I just mentioned them, with my mentioning
having been hours after you wrote this since I'm way behind in mail.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 21:10:59 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:11:02 -0600
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> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:31:30 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> > Quite obviously people in the Middle East have
> > anger and I don't need to recount all the reasons
> > for their anger, which has been building over a
> > long time.
>
> Right, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

I think it does, in that I see similarities.
Something motivates small numbers of people
to see their possible death as an answer of
some kind.

> > The human shields may be angered by what
> > they consider unreasonable threat against
> > a fellow humanbeing or whatever.  Anger is
> > strong enough to get people out of their chairs
> > and moving into action, much more so than
> > the gentler feelings, which they may also have.
>
> I find it frankly rather appalling that anyone would state with
> such certainty that anger is a stronger, longer-lasting emotion
> than love. I think that anger may get people moving, but it won't
> sustain them day after day. But as you say, there is more than
> one answer.
>
> Karen

I didn't say that anger is longer lasting.  You
are putting words in my mouth.

But that's all right.  I don't know why anyone
would want to act as a human shield or how
the thought stays with them long enough to
actually get them over there.  I wonder if it
will wear off when they hear bombardment,
etc. I wonder why they did not think they
could accomplish more alive.

              - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 21:15:50 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Help me, Part Deux
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:11:57 -0500
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> When I was writing this, I went through a strange variety of
> Intern's Disease in which I became every kind of difficult person
> I was writing about.
>
> Karen

Method acting for technical writing? I like it!

I don't think I can morph into Web software that displays pretty pictures of
boxes from a database, no matter how much I write about it. :) You're lucky!

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 21:23:15 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:19:18 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:

> > I think it's not unprecedented for a Wordsler to ask for Survivor
> > discussion to be held for 24 hours, right?
>
> Would it be unprecedented for one to ask for Survivor discussion to
> be held in perpetuity?

Both unprecedented and inappropriate.  Like asking for food discussions
to be held in perpetuity.  Or dog discussions.  Or war discussions.  Or
any other topic.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 21:23:17 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:21:08 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Help me, Part Deux
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>Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:01:34 PM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>>  But my resident expert says that he is convinced most conflict in
>>  the workplace is the result of defensive behavior, and the best
>>  results will come if you can find a good way of explaining that in
>>  simple language - fwiw.
>
>Done. I talk a lot about fighting fairly. I also try to explain
>that we are all difficult in one way or another, depending on who
>we're dealing with.

A good book about fighting fairly in domestic relationships is
"Intimate Enemies" -- it might have some workplace insights as well.

Janet

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At 08:42 PM 2/27/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>lisa alfieri wrote:
>
> > What I can tell you is this, I'm against the impending war. I support the
> > protesters who have organized, marched and demonstrated (I'd even join them
> > if I had a little more time). I do not believe in the people who are acting
> > as human shields.
>
>I "believe in them" in that I believe that their hearts are in the right
>place, that they are trying to help this screwed-up world, etc.  Yet
>there's still something about it that bothers me, and I know I would not
>consider doing that even if I had no fear of personal harm from it.

I think JMW had the right terminology.

Betty

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:21:32 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:42:06 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > I "believe in them" in that I believe that their hearts are in the right
> > place, that they are trying to help this screwed-up world, etc.  Yet
> > there's still something about it that bothers me, and I know I would not
> > consider doing that even if I had no fear of personal harm from it.
>
> Do you think that it's not your fight?

I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 21:33:24 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:29:36 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:11:02 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
>> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:31:30 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
>> > Quite obviously people in the Middle East have
>> > anger and I don't need to recount all the reasons
>> > for their anger, which has been building over a
>> > long time.
>>
>> Right, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.

> I think it does, in that I see similarities.
> Something motivates small numbers of people
> to see their possible death as an answer of
> some kind.

I think this is a gross overgeneralization. I think that that
suicide bombers of all sorts (including kamikaze) have more in
common with each other and with the military than human shields
do.

>> > The human shields may be angered by what
>> > they consider unreasonable threat against
>> > a fellow humanbeing or whatever.  Anger is
>> > strong enough to get people out of their chairs
>> > and moving into action, much more so than
>> > the gentler feelings, which they may also have.
>>
>> I find it frankly rather appalling that anyone would state with
>> such certainty that anger is a stronger, longer-lasting emotion
>> than love. I think that anger may get people moving, but it won't
>> sustain them day after day. But as you say, there is more than
>> one answer.
>>
>> Karen

> I didn't say that anger is longer lasting.  You
> are putting words in my mouth.

Sorry. I thought that's what you meant by saying that "Anger is
strong enough to get people out of their chairs and moving into
action, much more so than the gentler feelings [by which I
understand you to mean love], which they may also have." I was
correlating the strength of an emotion with how long it lasts.

> But that's all right.  I don't know why anyone
> would want to act as a human shield or how
> the thought stays with them long enough to
> actually get them over there.  I wonder if it
> will wear off when they hear bombardment,
> etc. I wonder why they did not think they
> could accomplish more alive.

My Friends meeting did a panel on the death penalty last Sunday.
Two of the people on the panel are women I know better than I
know anyone else in the meeting; the third guy I've seen in
meeting but have never talked to him, except to say "Good
morning". It's turn out he's a lawyer specializing in juvenile
death penalty cases. The two women talked about the people
they've known on death row, and how much love there is there,
from the inmates towards each other, and for them. Each of these
people has been working on this cause for about 12-15 years.
Something keeps them going and sustains them through this. And
I know that it's not anger.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Thu Feb 27 21:35:22 2003
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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:31:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:11:57 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
>> When I was writing this, I went through a strange variety of
>> Intern's Disease in which I became every kind of difficult person
>> I was writing about.
>>
>> Karen

> Method acting for technical writing? I like it!

LOL. This is corporate training materials, not really technical
writing.

> I don't think I can morph into Web software that displays pretty pictures of
> boxes from a database, no matter how much I write about it. :) You're lucky!

Better, I'm DONE. Maybe I'll even get paid for this!

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:33:44 -0600
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:21:08 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> A good book about fighting fairly in domestic relationships is
> "Intimate Enemies" -- it might have some workplace insights as well.

Thanks, I'm not looking at books any more. (I did, but I'm done.)

I did find a nice Ann Landers quote...
"All married couples should learn the art of battle as they should
learn the art of making love. Good battle is objective and
honest--never vicious or cruel. Good battle is healthy and
constructive, and brings to a marriage the principle of equal
partnership."
Ann Landers Says Truth Is Stranger..., 1968


Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:36:45 -0600
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:21:32 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:42:06 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>> > I "believe in them" in that I believe that their hearts are in the right
>> > place, that they are trying to help this screwed-up world, etc.  Yet
>> > there's still something about it that bothers me, and I know I would not
>> > consider doing that even if I had no fear of personal harm from it.
>>
>> Do you think that it's not your fight?

> I'm not sure exactly what you mean.

That they should protect their own women and children, that it's
not your job. So to speak. Not that I think you'd say exactly
that, but I was wondering if this was the type of thing your gut
was saying to you.

Karen

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 19:50:13 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: this made me chuckle
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from rec.humor.funny:


I live in the San Francisco Bay Area and my brother lives in Madison,
Wisconsin.  This time of year I get a sick pleasure out of taunting him
about the difference in the weather.  It was about 70 degrees and sunny
when I spotted the following weather advisory, so naturally I forwarded
to my brother:

    Columbia-dane-dodge-fond du lac-green lake-iowa-marquette-sauk-sheboygan-
    including the cities of...Portage...Beaver dam...Sheboygan...
    Madison...Fond du lac...Dodgeville...Baraboo...
    Montello and Green Lake

    ...Wind chill advisory for late tonight and early Wednesday remains
    in effect...

    Temperatures falling to near Zero late tonight will Combine with
    gusty Northwest winds of 15 to 25 mph...To generate wind chills from
    20 to 25 degrees below Zero. The dangerous wind chills will continue
    through about mid morning on Wednesday...With values rising as the
    temperatures gradually rise by mid-day.

    A Wind Chill Advisory is issued when a Strong wind will Combine with
    cold temperatures...To create dangerously cold conditions for exposed
    skin. The wind will make it feel like it is 20 degrees below Zero or
    colder...For a period of several hours. Those planning to venture
    outdoors should use common sense and dress warmly...Making sure that
    all exposed skin is covered. At these wind chill temperatures it
    takes only 30 minuites for frostbite to occur on exposed skin.

He responded by sending me this:

    marin-sonoma-solano-contra costa-san francisco-alameda-san mateo-santa clara
    counties including the cities of...san francisco...oakland...berkeley...
    san jose...woodland hills...cupertino...

    ...Aggravation Advisory for late tonight and early Wednesday remains
    in effect...
    Asking prices rising to near 8-Zeroes late tonight will Combine with
    slowing 101 and 880 traffic jams of 5 to 10 mph...To generate aesthetic
    chills from 20 to 25 malls per sq mile. The dangerous development chills
    will continue through about mid morning on Wednesday...With property values
    rising as the  number of Pottery Barns gradually increase by mid-day.
    An Aggravation Advisory is issued when a Strong wind of economic reality
    will Combine with inflated housing prices and traffic nightmare
conditions...
    To create dangerously aggravating conditions for exposed persons. The "wind"
    will make it feel like one's stock is 80 percent below last year's value
    while the house one wants is 350% above one's ability to buy.  Those
    planning to venture capital should use common sense and dress warmly...
    Making sure that all exposed investment is covered. In these conditions it
    takes only 30 minutes to not be able to afford a 1 bedroom 1 bath 550 sq ft
    condo in Hayward.

Maybe I'll just keep my mouth shut from now on.  :-)

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Subject: Re:      Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:01:59 -0600
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> death penalty cases. The two women talked about the people
> they've known on death row, and how much love there is there,
> from the inmates towards each other, and for them. Each of these
> people has been working on this cause for about 12-15 years.
> Something keeps them going and sustains them through this. And
> I know that it's not anger.
>
> Karen

They are also not making sudden drastic moves.

               - D. M.

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 22:11:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Thursday, February 27, 2003, 10:01:59 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
>> death penalty cases. The two women talked about the people
>> they've known on death row, and how much love there is there,
>> from the inmates towards each other, and for them. Each of these
>> people has been working on this cause for about 12-15 years.
>> Something keeps them going and sustains them through this. And
>> I know that it's not anger.
>>
>> Karen

> They are also not making sudden drastic moves.

Nor was it for many of the people who are in Iraq.

As for Ken Nichols, the ex-Marine, I suspect he'll do fine under
fire.

Karen

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In a message dated 2/27/2003 2:23:33 PM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<< What happened??? Why does our mail take so long these days?
 >>

I'm still trying to persuade the carrier to drop it in the box by my door
instead of in the one by the curb, because I can't reach that one. The
regular carrier did it once, but the one I have now, refuses to do it, in
spite of several notes left in the box, begging for it. I know it's more work
for them, but don't I have rights too?
I'm finally going to see a DR tomorrow for my left eye that's going blind.
It's been getting worse and worse, but hopefully there's a cure for it.
Getting old is no fun I guess, and there are people worse of than me, at
least that's what I keep telling myself. Theo

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In a message dated 2/27/2003 3:05:10 PM, twild@URI.EDU writes:

<<  I really like the Wild's log cabin.  I love the openness of the great room
> downstairs.
 >>
I think you'd love my new house. It too is very open with a large livingroom.
It has huge windows, and mine faces the corner (which is rounded, as all the
corners are here), so it faces the next street, not a house directly in
front. I wish I could send a picture of it, but I don't have the equipment
for it. But a friend just took one, perhaps he'll send me a copy I can use.
Theo

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<< In a message dated 02/27/2003 8:44:35 AM Central Standard Time,
alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<<I saw the pulmonologist yesterday re: the CT scan. She says that the
"mass" has greatly increased since the previous one in January.
 >>
Bummer. Hang in there Alyce, we need you. Theo

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In a message dated 2/27/2003 4:05:45 PM, rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<        LOL!  BTW, I think those are the new sneakers that don't have
laces, not wooden shoes.  But my school tends to look more
like "That 70's Show" than anything futuristic.  What's old
is new again!  Lots of long hair, ratty clothes,  and a few
of my boys have afros that are half again as tall as they
are :).
 >>
Hmmm. I have a pair like that, but the thought didn't occur to me. Only mine
are shoe height, and these looked more like wooden shoes. Theo

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Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2003 21:30:09 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
Subject: Re: Survivor Request
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>Would it be unprecedented for one to ask for Survivor discussion to
>be held in perpetuity?
>
>   mem

No, it would be entirely precdented.  The word "outbreak" comes to mind.

Ken Miller
Department of OM Sumpreme Championship Studies

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09:48 27.02.2003 -0600 skrev Karen Kay:
>Thursday, February 27, 2003, 9:45:44 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
>> steph wrote:
>>>
>>> she likes the cat.
>
>> My cleaning woman used to vacuum Pookie. He loved it, but China ran far
>> in the other direction.
>
>I don't think that my cat would let me vacuum her.

I have never met a cat who liked vacuum cleaners at all when they are on. Columbus, our rabbit, OTOH doesn't mind vacuuming at all.

Espen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 05:54:55 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
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        What's "wrong" with it is that they're not protecting the
Iraqi people.  They're acting as shields against one kind of
misery to preserve another kind.  They're *not* agents of
change -- they are the ultimate conservatives.

Doris Markland wrote:

>>Thursday, February 27, 2003, 8:31:30 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
>>
>>>Quite obviously people in the Middle East have
>>>anger and I don't need to recount all the reasons
>>>for their anger, which has been building over a
>>>long time.
>>>
>>Right, that has nothing to do with what we're talking about.
>>
>
> I think it does, in that I see similarities.
> Something motivates small numbers of people
> to see their possible death as an answer of
> some kind.
>
>
>>>The human shields may be angered by what
>>>they consider unreasonable threat against
>>>a fellow humanbeing or whatever.  Anger is
>>>strong enough to get people out of their chairs
>>>and moving into action, much more so than
>>>the gentler feelings, which they may also have.
>>>
>>I find it frankly rather appalling that anyone would state with
>>such certainty that anger is a stronger, longer-lasting emotion
>>than love. I think that anger may get people moving, but it won't
>>sustain them day after day. But as you say, there is more than
>>one answer.
>>
>>Karen
>>
>
> I didn't say that anger is longer lasting.  You
> are putting words in my mouth.
>
> But that's all right.  I don't know why anyone
> would want to act as a human shield or how
> the thought stays with them long enough to
> actually get them over there.  I wonder if it
> will wear off when they hear bombardment,
> etc. I wonder why they did not think they
> could accomplish more alive.
>
>               - D. M.
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Betty wrote:

> >I "believe in them" in that I believe that their hearts are in the right
> >place, that they are trying to help this screwed-up world, etc.  Yet
> >there's still something about it that bothers me, and I know I would not
> >consider doing that even if I had no fear of personal harm from it.
>
> I think JMW had the right terminology.

I don't remember his terminology.  I romped very, very quickly through a
huge backlog of mail last night and remember little now.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 06:01:37 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: fluffy snow
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Thursday, February 27, 2003, 7:26:43 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>And speaking of in-house, I've got another kid in there
>>
>
> What does 'in-house' mean?


        In-house suspension.  Instead of suspending a kid, they come
to school and sit in a windowless room with Mr. H or Ms. W.
all day.  Teachers send down their work for them to do, and
a lot of times tutors, etc. from the community are in there
helping the kids study since they tend to be at-risk
students. Out-of-school suspension is reserved for really
bad infractions, like fights and stealing.  ISS is used for
the relatively minor stuff, but it sounds horrible to me.
I'd go nuts.


        This is some sort of anniversary of the airing of "Sixteen

in Webster Groves" and all the TV stations are in doing
little fluff pieces on it.  Bleh.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Karen Kay wrote:
> >> Do you think that it's not your fight?
>
> > I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
>
> That they should protect their own women and children, that it's
> not your job. So to speak. Not that I think you'd say exactly
> that, but I was wondering if this was the type of thing your gut
> was saying to you.

No.  It's kind of combination of two things, I think.  The lesser of the
two is a feeling of being a physical fighter or something like that.  I
can't really explain that vague feeling.  The other thing is that it
suggests that you think you're <important> or <special> -- that you
think your presence at the target site might help deter the attack.
It's bumptious or something.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> I'm still trying to persuade the carrier to drop it in the box by my door
> instead of in the one by the curb, because I can't reach that one. The
> regular carrier did it once, but the one I have now, refuses to do it, in
> spite of several notes left in the box, begging for it. I know it's more work
> for them, but don't I have rights too?

I don't know that it's a "right," but have you talked to the postmaster
or whoever is in charge of the mail delivery in your area?  I would
think it might take some kind of official request for the service --
that putting notes in the mailbox wouldn't be enough.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         This is some sort of anniversary of the airing of "Sixteen
>
> in Webster Groves" and all the TV stations are in doing
> little fluff pieces on it.  Bleh.

What is "Sixteen in Webster Groves"?  A movie?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 06:16:10 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Yahoo! News Story - Charity Charged in Sending Funds to Iraq
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>
>>>>Do you think that it's not your fight?
>>>>
>>>I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
>>>
>>That they should protect their own women and children, that it's
>>not your job. So to speak. Not that I think you'd say exactly
>>that, but I was wondering if this was the type of thing your gut
>>was saying to you.
>>
>
> No.  It's kind of combination of two things, I think.  The lesser of the
> two is a feeling of being a physical fighter or something like that.  I
> can't really explain that vague feeling.  The other thing is that it
> suggests that you think you're <important> or <special> -- that you
> think your presence at the target site might help deter the attack.
> It's bumptious or something.
>


        "My life is more valuable than your life."

        We had an interesting class discussion yesterday about the
ending of Tale of Two Cities.  We talked about Carton's
sacrifice for awhile, then I asked them if their opinion
would change if I substituted the word "suicide" for
"sacrifice."  That stopped them in their tracks for a moment
and the discussion really took off.  I suspect a change in
terminology might do the same for the dialogue about these
so-called human shields.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 06:22:29 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>        This is some sort of anniversary of the airing of "Sixteen
>>
>>in Webster Groves" and all the TV stations are in doing
>>little fluff pieces on it.  Bleh.
>>
>
> What is "Sixteen in Webster Groves"?  A movie?


        A CBS documentary made in the 60's.  It focused on Webster
Groves High School and portrayed the community as snotty and
insular and very backwards.  People in Webster Groves are
furious about it to this day (the community is quite
insular, but tends more towards affluent liberalism than
RR-ism).  Many felt they were duped by the producer (Charles
Kuralt) and that the community was shown in a negative light
intentionally.

        About four years ago, TIME did a follow-up feature on the
high school that is pretty accurate.  It focused a great
deal on the English Dept. for some reason.  It still really
pissed people off.  Everyone at the high school thought it
was pretty fairly done and were surprised that the community
went nuts about it.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 07:29:48 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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Subject: Re: shields or suicides? (was Yahoo news)
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But of course, these guys are hoping that they will be the ones
in Tian An Men Square, who stood in front of the tanks and
turned them back. They're not hoping for death; they're hoping
that their humanity will reach back and touch someone's heart.

And of course, our leaders are immune to that. They don't
have the cultural background to avoid killing one of their own.
It's collateral damage to us, we accept it calmly.

I know what you mean about the hubris of the act; but I
do think that one of the ways this could go leads to those
of us who voice opposition being imprisoned or killed
anyway, even if we do nothing outwardly to oppose.
Given that, I am inclined to stand up now (if I can find
the right way) rather than waiting and hoping not to be
noticed. It seems to me that these people have decided
to take a stand, and it's a good one to take, even if I
think they have misjudged the outcome.

Remember Dante - although I am quoting the tshirt, not
the man -  the hottest places in hell are reserved for those
who remain neutral in a time of moral crisis.

So why not respect the part of the choice that is made
in good faith, and cut a little slack for the parts that are
not so noble?

clo -

ps - just so you know what I think about the current
situation and our leaders (in case you hadn't guessed:

Following the example of Sojourner Truth, who declared that
       she was advocating the abolition of slavery because she was
       trying to save white slaveowners from burning in hell, I braid
       small prayers for the souls of war criminals into my hair:
       one for Bush, one for Cheney, one for Ashcroft, one for
       Ridge, one for Rumsfeldt, and of course a few for
       non-Christian, non-US advocates for assassination, genocide,
       and other atrocities as well.

       In order to make sure that I don't forget to pray, I don't tie
       off the ends of the braids - they come undone every day or
       so and I have to pray for them all over again.

Rita Chapman wrote:

> Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> >>>>Do you think that it's not your fight?
> >>>>
> >>>I'm not sure exactly what you mean.
> >>>
> >>That they should protect their own women and children, that it's
> >>not your job. So to speak. Not that I think you'd say exactly
> >>that, but I was wondering if this was the type of thing your gut
> >>was saying to you.
> >>
> >
> > No.  It's kind of combination of two things, I think.  The lesser of the
> > two is a feeling of being a physical fighter or something like that.  I
> > can't really explain that vague feeling.  The other thing is that it
> > suggests that you think you're <important> or <special> -- that you
> > think your presence at the target site might help deter the attack.
> > It's bumptious or something.
> >
>
>         "My life is more valuable than your life."
>
>         We had an interesting class discussion yesterday about the
> ending of Tale of Two Cities.  We talked about Carton's
> sacrifice for awhile, then I asked them if their opinion
> would change if I substituted the word "suicide" for
> "sacrifice."  That stopped them in their tracks for a moment
> and the discussion really took off.  I suspect a change in
> terminology might do the same for the dialogue about these
> so-called human shields.
>
> --
> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
> rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
> http://www.etext.org/~rita

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 06:38:17 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: shields or suicides? (was Yahoo news)
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Carolyn Ostrander wrote:


>
> I know what you mean about the hubris of the act; but I
> do think that one of the ways this could go leads to those
> of us who voice opposition being imprisoned or killed
> anyway, even if we do nothing outwardly to oppose.
> Given that, I am inclined to stand up now (if I can find
> the right way) rather than waiting and hoping not to be
> noticed. It seems to me that these people have decided
> to take a stand, and it's a good one to take, even if I
> think they have misjudged the outcome.


        I'm not sure this is the best action.  It isn't that I'm in
favor of the war as Rashmi is; I'm 100% against it.  But
neither am I in favor of Saddam, and that is who they are
shielding.


>
> Remember Dante - although I am quoting the tshirt, not
> the man -  the hottest places in hell are reserved for those
> who remain neutral in a time of moral crisis.


        You are misquoting Dante.  The neutrals are not permitted
into hell.


> So why not respect the part of the choice that is made
> in good faith, and cut a little slack for the parts that are
> not so noble?


        Because that would be unthinking on my part.  What good is
good faith if the people suffer anyway?  Isn't that
misguided faith?


> Following the example of Sojourner Truth, who declared that
>        she was advocating the abolition of slavery because she was
>        trying to save white slaveowners from burning in hell, I braid
>        small prayers for the souls of war criminals into my hair:
>        one for Bush, one for Cheney, one for Ashcroft, one for
>        Ridge, one for Rumsfeldt, and of course a few for
>        non-Christian, non-US advocates for assassination, genocide,
>        and other atrocities as well.
>
>        In order to make sure that I don't forget to pray, I don't tie
>        off the ends of the braids - they come undone every day or
>        so and I have to pray for them all over again.


        I'm not a fan of the midwestern church tradition of putting
messages on signs, but several of the churches on my way to
work have messages related to praying for peace and our
leaders.  These are good reminders for me -- and somehow
fitting for my 21st c. life.


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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At 12:02 AM 2/28/2003 -0500, Theodora Groothof wrote:
>In a message dated 2/27/2003 2:23:33 PM, Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:
>
><< What happened??? Why does our mail take so long these days?
>  >>
>
>I'm still trying to persuade the carrier to drop it in the box by my door
>instead of in the one by the curb, because I can't reach that one. The
>regular carrier did it once, but the one I have now, refuses to do it, in
>spite of several notes left in the box, begging for it. I know it's more work
>for them, but don't I have rights too?

Did you explain why?

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At 06:01 AM 2/28/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>Karen Kay wrote:
>
>>Thursday, February 27, 2003, 7:26:43 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>>
>>>And speaking of in-house, I've got another kid in there
>>
>>What does 'in-house' mean?
>
>
>        In-house suspension.  Instead of suspending a kid, they come
>to school and sit in a windowless room with Mr. H or Ms. W.
>all day.  Teachers send down their work for them to do, and
>a lot of times tutors, etc. from the community are in there
>helping the kids study since they tend to be at-risk
>students. Out-of-school suspension is reserved for really
>bad infractions, like fights and stealing.  ISS is used for
>the relatively minor stuff, but it sounds horrible to me.
>I'd go nuts.

Yes.  Suspension always seemed like a strange punishment anyway. Most of
the kids who get suspended don't think want to go to school anyway so we
reward them by granting their wish?

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At 06:38 AM 2/28/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I know what you mean about the hubris of the act; but I
>>do think that one of the ways this could go leads to those
>>of us who voice opposition being imprisoned or killed
>>anyway, even if we do nothing outwardly to oppose.
>>Given that, I am inclined to stand up now (if I can find
>>the right way) rather than waiting and hoping not to be
>>noticed. It seems to me that these people have decided
>>to take a stand, and it's a good one to take, even if I
>>think they have misjudged the outcome.
>
>
>        I'm not sure this is the best action.  It isn't that I'm in
>favor of the war as Rashmi is; I'm 100% against it.  But
>neither am I in favor of Saddam, and that is who they are
>shielding.

I want to think of it as shielding the innocent people, not Saddam.

Betty

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..

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At 09:45 AM 2/28/2003 -0500, alec wrote:
>..


...words to live by...

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At 09:45 AM 2/28/2003 -0500, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
>..

. . .

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:00:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 6:04:00 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> No.  It's kind of combination of two things, I think.  The lesser of the
> two is a feeling of being a physical fighter or something like that.  I
> can't really explain that vague feeling.  The other thing is that it
> suggests that you think you're <important> or <special> -- that you
> think your presence at the target site might help deter the attack.
> It's bumptious or something.

I don't think they believe that individually they matter that
much.

Karen

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At 05:40 PM 2/27/2003 -0800, Peter Kaminski wrote:

>http://www.intouchmag.com/signs.html
>http://www.bellydance.com/featured.htm
>http://www.ourhidingplace.com/hosted/dorit/archives/00000314.html
>
>(Same letter on each site, take your pick.  N.B. if you're allergic to new
>age stuff, don't chase the URL.)
>
>Pete

I liked #4

4. Avoid watching the news and reading the newspapers. Headlines are designed
to keep you afraid and disempowered so that you will buy more papers or watch
more TV. Then you get "hooked" on the news because you're waiting for some
official "guidance" that will keep you safe and secure. This simply can't
happen,
because it's not the way the media is set up. The media is designed to get
you riled
up, so that you remain tuned in to the "chain of pain." The only lasting
safety and
security come from the peace that you create within yourself. What's safe
for one
person will be dangerous for another. Remember all the hundreds of stories from
September 11, about the people who were supposed to be at the World Trade
Center but, for hundreds of different reasons, simply weren't there that
day. Tune
in to how you are feeling when you've severed the influence of the mass
media.This
will give you the guidance you're seeking.

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:07:04 -0700
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Carolyn Ostrander wrote:

> But of course, these guys are hoping that they will be the ones
> in Tian An Men Square, who stood in front of the tanks and
> turned them back.

    BTW, anybody seen that guy since?

> I know what you mean about the hubris of the act; but I
> do think that one of the ways this could go leads to those
> of us who voice opposition being imprisoned or killed
> anyway, even if we do nothing outwardly to oppose.

    You make a statement like this and then expect to be taken seriously?

>
> Following the example of Sojourner Truth, who declared that
>        she was advocating the abolition of slavery because she was
>        trying to save white slaveowners from burning in hell, I braid
>        small prayers for the souls of war criminals into my hair:
>        one for Bush, one for Cheney, one for Ashcroft, one for
>        Ridge, one for Rumsfeldt, and of course a few for
>        non-Christian, non-US advocates for assassination, genocide,
>        and other atrocities as well.

    PC Hair-Braiding For Peace.  Well, that's a new one.

JMW

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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:

> ..

    At last, something we all can agree on.

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 09:19:43 2003
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At 08:09 AM 2/28/2003 -0700, John Williams wrote:
>"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
>
> > ..
>
>     At last, something we all can agree on.
>
>JMW

What are you wearing today, John?  I miss your web cam.

Betty

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:17:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:20:13 AM, Betty wrote:

> At 08:09 AM 2/28/2003 -0700, John Williams wrote:
>>"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
>>
>> > ..
>>
>>     At last, something we all can agree on.
>>
>>JMW

> What are you wearing today, John?  I miss your web cam.

> Betty

Me, too.


Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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>
> What are you wearing today, John?  I miss your web cam.
>
> Betty

    Wouldn't work anyway, I'm on the second floor.  Yea, I kinda liked
it too.  Oh, well.  Lessee, blue and white striped long-sleeve
sweatshirt (its our self-proclaimed Casual Friday),  robin's-egg-blue
jeans, and black Cheeta sneakers.  Oh, and, uh, lets see,  forest-green
briefs.  (I hope you appreciated that last.  Tough to do when you're at
the reference desk.)

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 09:27:55 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:23:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:20:17 AM, John Williams wrote:
>     Wouldn't work anyway, I'm on the second floor.  Yea, I kinda liked
> it too.  Oh, well.  Lessee, blue and white striped long-sleeve
> sweatshirt (its our self-proclaimed Casual Friday),  robin's-egg-blue
> jeans, and black Cheeta sneakers.  Oh, and, uh, lets see,  forest-green
> briefs.  (I hope you appreciated that last.  Tough to do when you're at
> the reference desk.)

Socks?

Karen

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: fluffy snow
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:24:47 -0500
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>>students. Out-of-school suspension is reserved for really
>>bad infractions, like fights and stealing.  ISS is used for
>>the relatively minor stuff, but it sounds horrible to me.
>>I'd go nuts.

It wasn't all that bad. You could read whatever you want.

Marie
  Bad Girl

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
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At 10:24 AM 2/28/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
>>>students. Out-of-school suspension is reserved for really
>>>bad infractions, like fights and stealing.  ISS is used for
>>>the relatively minor stuff, but it sounds horrible to me.
>>>I'd go nuts.
>
>It wasn't all that bad. You could read whatever you want.
>
>Marie
>  Bad Girl

LOL.  I bet you were.

Betty

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 09:42:54 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:

>>> students. Out-of-school suspension is reserved for really
>>> bad infractions, like fights and stealing.  ISS is used for
>>> the relatively minor stuff, but it sounds horrible to me.
>>> I'd go nuts.
>>
>
> It wasn't all that bad. You could read whatever you want.
>


        I need to move around when I read.  I don't sit still very well.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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ADP:
> ..

ksh: ..: 0403-006 Execute permission denied

--
Richard 1:4         could be worse, could be 1863

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I don't know that I expect to be taken seriously, no matter what
I say. I do know that I was astonished at how quickly people
forgot that they had a right to think independently after 9/11;
and I know that many many people in Germany in the '30s
thought that an enlightened, modern society with freedom built
into both the legal system and the culture, could not become a
dangerous, repressive state.

Of course, I have the example before me of seeing my father
abandoned by colleagues and charged with non-crimes when
he advocated for very small improvements in the system...
so I am mindful that the freedoms we enjoy are only permitted
by the pleasure of those who hold the rubber stamp at the
moment.

I also remember Kent State, and know that any ordinary nice
young man with a uniform and a gun can become disoriented
enough to mistake another ordinary nice young man for The
Enemy.

clo

John Williams wrote:

>     You make a statement like this and then expect to be taken seriously?

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John Williams:
= "Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
=
= > ..
=
=     At last, something we all can agree on.
=
= JMW

!!

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:47:51 -0700
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Socks?

    Oh, yea, we ain't THAT casual!
    (Although I do work with a few sneaker-clad short wearers.)

JMW

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John Williams:
= >
= > What are you wearing today, John?  I miss your web cam.
= >
= > Betty
=
=     Wouldn't work anyway, I'm on the second floor.  Yea, I kinda liked
= it too.  Oh, well.  Lessee, blue and white striped long-sleeve
= sweatshirt (its our self-proclaimed Casual Friday),  robin's-egg-blue
= jeans, and black Cheeta sneakers.  Oh, and, uh, lets see,  forest-green
= briefs.  (I hope you appreciated that last.  Tough to do when you're at
= the reference desk.)
=
= JMW

What, you couldn't remember from when you put them on this
morning?  Man, you are getting old.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 10:00:50 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:54:46 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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steph wrote:

> What, you couldn't remember from when you put them on this
> morning?  Man, you are getting old.

    Hey, its *dark* when I get dressed!

JMW

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John Williams:
= steph wrote:
=
= > What, you couldn't remember from when you put them on this
= > morning?  Man, you are getting old.
=
=     Hey, its *dark* when I get dressed!
=
= JMW

Ok.  I understand completely.

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 08:02:38 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
Subject: Re: Help me, Part Deux
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

>I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
>dealing with Difficult People.
>
>Karen

"Yea, verily, the Lord shall smite them."

Ken Miller
Joshua School of Conflict Resolution

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Octibbeha (sic) is running in today's
third at the Fairgrounds, number 8 in
the white, Gerard Melancon up.

It's 1 mile and 40 yards on the main track;
a $25000 maiden claiming race, purse $9500.

I don't see anything in her pedigree

    http://www.dmtc.com/p/17655.php

to explain where her name comes from.

She's a 3-year-old bay, bred in Louisiana.

--
Richard 1:4         could be worse, could be 1863

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:03:05 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:47:51 AM, John Williams wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:

>> Socks?

>     Oh, yea, we ain't THAT casual!
>     (Although I do work with a few sneaker-clad short wearers.)

What color?

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:03:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:52:45 AM, steph wrote:
> What, you couldn't remember from when you put them on this
> morning?  Man, you are getting old.

If they are clean, I never pay attention.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:07:28 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 10:02:38 AM, Bookrat wrote:
>>I need your favorite aphorism about conflict resolution or
>>dealing with Difficult People.
>>
>>Karen

> "Yea, verily, the Lord shall smite them."

LOL. I'm not sure that this is what they had in mind.

> Ken Miller
> Joshua School of Conflict Resolution

I'm sort of glad that I'm not writing for them...

Karen

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At 10:01 AM 2/28/2003 -0600, C.Q. Featherstonehaugh wrote:
>Octibbeha (sic) is running in today's
>third at the Fairgrounds, number 8 in
>the white, Gerard Melancon up.
>
>It's 1 mile and 40 yards on the main track;
>a $25000 maiden claiming race, purse $9500.
>
>I don't see anything in her pedigree
>
>     http://www.dmtc.com/p/17655.php
>
>to explain where her name comes from.
>
>She's a 3-year-old bay, bred in Louisiana.
>
>--
>Richard 1:4         could be worse, could be 1863


Bet the farm!

We're off for Bodega Bay.  Be good, or not.  Good luck, Rita.

Betty

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 10:28:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I don't know why, this sounds like you.

Karen

New Dissertation Abstract

Institution: Edinburgh University
Program: Applied Linguistics
Dissertation Status: Completed
Degree Date: 1990

Author: Ana Frankenberg-Garcia

Dissertation Title:
Second Language Writing: a study of the effects of a
discourse-oriented programme upon the ability of skilled writers to
improve their written production

Linguistic Field: Applied Linguistics

Subject Language:
Portuguese (code: 5044)
English (code: 1738)

Dissertation Director 1: Hugh Trappes-lomax


Dissertation Abstract:

This thesis argues that process-oriented approaches to second language
writing intruction have been overly influenced by first language
writing theory and that, in consequence, these pedagogies have paid
too much notice to the difficulties encountered by unskilled
writers. The thesis calls for the need for second language writing
instruction to recognize the differences between skilled and unskilled
writers and address the specific difficulties of the former. It is
reasoned that skilled writers using L2 need far more support with
regard to acquiring language-specific standards with which to evaluate
their own prose than with regard to developing writing process
planning, writing, rereading and revising skills (which they already
possess).

The empirical part of this study investigates the effects of
a discourse-oriented programme of L2 writing instruction upon the
ability of skilled writers to improve their written production. The
pedagogy tested did not attempt to teach writing process
strategies, but seeked to provide a group of eight Brazilian
researchers writing in English with parameters with which to improve
the readability of their writing products in the absence of teacher
feedback. Pre and post-instruction samples of expository texts and
revision data by these writers disclose evidence that the instruction
carried out was effective and efficient: the writers were able to
improve the readability of their writing products and acquire
standards with which to evaluate their own prose in the absence of
teacher feedback after a very short instructional period. Although it
was not possible to work with a control group, a detailed analysis of
the revision data suggests that the above developments are more likely
to have been outcomes of the specific intruction provided than
outcomes of any type of writing instruction. It was concluded that
skilled writers using L2 may greatly benefit from instruction which
focuses on how L2 discourse is organized, and that the teaching of
writing process strategies need not be a priority when the learners in
question are already skilled writers.

A final concern of the study was to learn more about instruction for
skilled writers using L2. Its most important exploration in this
respect suggests that instruction must strive to help these writers
overcome language-specific difficulties that emerge during the process
of writing. These difficulties are not always visible in finished
products, and may easily be mistaken for lack of writing skill.

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:34:03 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 11:08:30 AM, John Williams wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:

>> >     (Although I do work with a few sneaker-clad short wearers.)
>>
>> What color?

>     Mostly white guys.

SOCKS

You're being coy for a guy who told me the color of his
underwear.:)

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 11:54:35 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Pimp Juice
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:38:44 -0500
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...from "Pimp Juice" by Nelly:

Now your pimp juice is anything, attract the opposite sex
It could be money, fame, or straight intellect
It don't MATTER! Bitches got the pimp juice too
Come to think about it - dirty, they got more than we do
They got mo' - juice in they talk, got mo' juice in they walk
They got mo' - juice in they veins, OOH GOD DAMN!
I tell you man it's a cryin shame..
.. how people use, the juice in vein - you hear me mayne
Pimp juice is color blind
You find it work on all color creeds and kinds
>From ages 50 right down to 9




Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com




_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 11:54:36 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 11:40:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 11:38:44 AM, Marie Ascher wrote:
> ...from "Pimp Juice" by Nelly:

> Now your pimp juice is anything, attract the opposite sex
> It could be money, fame, or straight intellect
> It don't MATTER! Bitches got the pimp juice too
> Come to think about it - dirty, they got more than we do
> They got mo' - juice in they talk, got mo' juice in they walk
> They got mo' - juice in they veins, OOH GOD DAMN!
> I tell you man it's a cryin shame..
> .. how people use, the juice in vein - you hear me mayne
> Pimp juice is color blind
> You find it work on all color creeds and kinds
> From ages 50 right down to 9

Thank you! I guess I'm too old to have pimp juice.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 11:54:36 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: The Tuna Matter
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:42:04 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>I guess nothing is wrong with "tuna sandwiches" if that's how it's said
>in your dialect and you're used to hearing that.  It sounds rather
><prissy> to me, though.

I had chickenbird salad today.

As for finding terms or whatever in other
>dialects extremely unpleasant, that's the way I feel about "you guys."
>It grates on my ears.

Of course. It's s'posed to be "youse guys." Duh.

Marie



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Karen Kay wrote:

> >     (Although I do work with a few sneaker-clad short wearers.)
>
> What color?

    Mostly white guys.

JMW

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from another list, with permission - but from that backwater
town, New York City!
clo

Date: 27 Feb 2003 06:17:07 -0500

From: Ludwig
Subject: Re: Ot:spying on americans

On Wed, 2003-02-26 at 17:34, abject photo wrote:
> http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0309/lee.php

Where might one find a copy of this "Village Voice?"  Is this
publication available in New York City?  While the content is...
intriguing, I must admit I have my doubts.  If this is truly a
legitimate and respectable news source, why have I seen nary a mention
of it in the Readers' Digest?  Their fair and objective reportage on
current issues of interest such as the counter-scriptural dogma of
"evolution," or the pernicious liberal academic conspiracy to convince
ordinary American folk of the existence (and "Danger!") of supposedly
deadly Lilliputian animalcules that are -- get this -- so tiny as to be
_invisible_ to the naked eye!  Ha ha!  I'll believe it when I see it!
Not that I'm holding my breath!

L.

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Yes, but socks are personal!
clo

Karen Kay wrote:

> Friday, February 28, 2003, 11:08:30 AM, John Williams wrote:
>
> > Karen Kay wrote:
>
> >> >     (Although I do work with a few sneaker-clad short wearers.)
> >>
> >> What color?
>
> >     Mostly white guys.
>
> SOCKS
>
> You're being coy for a guy who told me the color of his
> underwear.:)
>
> Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:39:33 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Pimp Juice
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Reply-to: rouvalis@swbell.net
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        Ah-ha, it all makes sense now.  Of course. Nelly.

Marie Ascher wrote:

> ...from "Pimp Juice" by Nelly:
>
> Now your pimp juice is anything, attract the opposite sex
> It could be money, fame, or straight intellect
> It don't MATTER! Bitches got the pimp juice too
> Come to think about it - dirty, they got more than we do
> They got mo' - juice in they talk, got mo' juice in they walk
> They got mo' - juice in they veins, OOH GOD DAMN!
> I tell you man it's a cryin shame..
> .. how people use, the juice in vein - you hear me mayne
> Pimp juice is color blind
> You find it work on all color creeds and kinds
>
>> From ages 50 right down to 9
>
>
>
>
>
> Marie
>   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 12:52:34 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:48:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 12:39:33 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>         Ah-ha, it all makes sense now.  Of course. Nelly.

Who is Nelly?

Does anyone else get a headache from rap? I literally cannot
stand to listen to it.

I taped Bill Clinton's speech when he was here and I'm just now
watching it. He came as part of the Liz Carpenter Distinguished
Lectureship Series. Liz Carpenter introduced him as a President
who didn't need duct tape to hold us together--and as a
senatorial spouse.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 12:54:40 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Pimp Juice
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:50:44 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Karen Kay
>Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 1:49 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Pimp Juice
>
>
>Friday, February 28, 2003, 12:39:33 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>>         Ah-ha, it all makes sense now.  Of course. Nelly.
>
>Who is Nelly?
>
>Does anyone else get a headache from rap? I literally cannot
>stand to listen to it.

Lower the volume.


>
>I taped Bill Clinton's speech when he was here and I'm just now
>watching it. He came as part of the Liz Carpenter Distinguished
>Lectureship Series. Liz Carpenter introduced him as a President
>who didn't need duct tape to hold us together--and as a
>senatorial spouse.
>
>Karen
>

alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 12:56:05 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:52:10 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 12:50:44 PM, Alec D. Plotkin wrote:
>>Does anyone else get a headache from rap? I literally cannot
>>stand to listen to it.

> Lower the volume.

The volume doesn't matter. (Tried that.)

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 12:58:24 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:54:26 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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Subject: Clinton and rap
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Clinton's gonna speak at Commencement here - they announced
yesterday.

Karen Kay wrote:

> Friday, February 28, 2003, 12:39:33 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
> >         Ah-ha, it all makes sense now.  Of course. Nelly.
>
> Who is Nelly?
>
> Does anyone else get a headache from rap? I literally cannot
> stand to listen to it.

I got a headache from it till I learned to think of it as beat
jazz/poetry, which I just became grown-up enough to listen to also.
Now I enjoy local hiphop/rap/slam artists on a weekly basis, and
have Limp Bizkit and Lauren Hill loaded on my computer to help
me relax, concentrate, and express myself. -clo

> I taped Bill Clinton's speech when he was here and I'm just now
> watching it. He came as part of the Liz Carpenter Distinguished
> Lectureship Series. Liz Carpenter introduced him as a President
> who didn't need duct tape to hold us together--and as a
> senatorial spouse.
>
> Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 12:59:30 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:56:06 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Pimp Juice
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Friday, February 28, 2003, 12:39:33 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>        Ah-ha, it all makes sense now.  Of course. Nelly.
>>
>
> Who is Nelly?


        Rap artist from St. Louis.  Many of my AA girls are in love
with him.  I think he won a grammy or something of that
nature last year.


> Does anyone else get a headache from rap? I literally cannot
> stand to listen to it.


        I don't like it.  I wish I did.  A lot of teachers have done
wonderful things with it in the classroom, but I just can't.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 13:03:25 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 12:59:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 12:54:26 PM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> Clinton's gonna speak at Commencement here - they announced
> yesterday.

He's a good speaker. The demand for tickets was so high, the
local cable news broadcast it--and I taped it.

>> Does anyone else get a headache from rap? I literally cannot
>> stand to listen to it.

> I got a headache from it till I learned to think of it as beat
> jazz/poetry, which I just became grown-up enough to listen to also.
> Now I enjoy local hiphop/rap/slam artists on a weekly basis, and
> have Limp Bizkit and Lauren Hill loaded on my computer to help
> me relax, concentrate, and express myself. -clo

I will think about this.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 13:07:09 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:03:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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He said that someone came up to him, shook his hand, and said,
"I'd love to put you up on Mt. Rushmore". Clinton thanked the guy
and the guy said "Yeah, and then I'd like to push you off"....

Ba dum dum...

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Was it worth it, Steph??
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:10:09 -0600
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You must know that what I am about to show
you cost an arm and a leg in effort.  Let's say
one limb was in Nebraska and the other was
in Amsterdam.

When I bemoaned the fact that online photo
places all kick you out after a free trial, Steph
asked why I didn't use my web page that comes
with my ISP service.  Said I didn't know how.
She said she'd show me.

Well, we waded through two days of emails,
Steph patiently teaching me ftp and telnet
and commands . . . I had managed to avoid
DOS and had no background on any of this.
Also did some things wrong, I'm sure.  
We couldn't "get it up."

So I called my ISP and instead of fixing
my problem, whatever it was, he recommended
some simple transfer software, and Steph
agreed that was great and then talked me
through using that.  Even then I made some
mistakes and it took a while before I
finally had success.

Anyway I had picked one picture out of
my files to practice on and this happened to
be the one..  It is me in 1948.

      http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld


                                      - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 13:13:31 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:09:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 1:10:09 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> It is me in 1948.

Hubba hubba!

That's a VERY daring bathing suit.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:59:09 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Pimp Juice
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At 12:52 PM 2/28/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>The volume doesn't matter. (Tried that.)

Try listening to it while it is being played softly on a small CD player in
Montana.

cwv

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 13:26:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 12:59:09 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> At 12:52 PM 2/28/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>>The volume doesn't matter. (Tried that.)

> Try listening to it while it is being played softly on a small CD player in
> Montana.

LOL. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't give me a headache!

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 13:51:52 2003
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Octibbeha paid 4.60 to show.

--
Richard 1:4         could be worse, could be 1863

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 13:58:08 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:54:04 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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Try listening to The MisEducation of Lauren Hill.
And really catch the lyrics.
She has a song about being young and pregnant,
choosing to raise a child (named, in the song, at least, Zion).
It's an extremely powerful and beautiful statement.
If you don't want to listen first, you can read them at
<http://members.tripod.com/Lauryn_Hill_Rocks/>
click Lyrics and select the album (her first).
clo

Karen Kay wrote:

> Friday, February 28, 2003, 12:59:09 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> > At 12:52 PM 2/28/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
> >>The volume doesn't matter. (Tried that.)
>
> > Try listening to it while it is being played softly on a small CD player in
> > Montana.
>
> LOL. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't give me a headache!
>
> Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 14:23:42 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:21:11 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
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             dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM on Fri, Feb 28, 2003 at 01:10:09PM -0600
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Doris Markland:
=
= Anyway I had picked one picture out of
= my files to practice on and this happened to
= be the one..  It is me in 1948.
=
=       http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld
=
=
=                                       - D. M.

That picture sure made it worth it.

steph

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: PJ or how I learned to love rap/hiphop
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:23:09 -0500
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>From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU>
>Try listening to The MisEducation of Lauren Hill.
>And really catch the lyrics.

I don't think of Lauryn Hill as rap, more R&B or hip-hop soul.

I actually have something of a taste for rap music -- NWA, Eminem, etc. It
strikes at something in me. Probably my in-school suspension side.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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Congratulations. It's easy to say "put it up on the web"
but you have learned a long list of new skills.

clo

steph wrote:

> Doris Markland:
> =
> = Anyway I had picked one picture out of
> = my files to practice on and this happened to
> = be the one..  It is me in 1948.
> =
> =       http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld
> =
> =
> =                                       - D. M.
>
> That picture sure made it worth it.
>
> steph

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 14:30:03 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> Doris Markland:
> =
> = Anyway I had picked one picture out of
> = my files to practice on and this happened to
> = be the one..  It is me in 1948.
> =
> =       http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld
> =
> =
> =                                       - D. M.
>
> That picture sure made it worth it.
>
> steph

woohoo!  sexy!

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 14:33:49 2003
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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> He said that someone came up to him, shook his hand, and said,
> "I'd love to put you up on Mt. Rushmore". Clinton thanked the guy
> and the guy said "Yeah, and then I'd like to push you off"....
>
I thought that was a GWB joke

alyce

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Yeah, well, baby steps.
clo

But! I am really just learning myself - suggestions gratefully taken.
Also, I am struggling to learn to love techno, so anyone who
has good advice for surviving a thumping, repetitive beat w/
virtually no lyrics, unredeemed or otherwise, I'd be happy to
hear it... if I have any hearing left after this experiment!
clo

Marie Ascher wrote:

> >From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU>
> >Try listening to The MisEducation of Lauren Hill.
> >And really catch the lyrics.
>
> I don't think of Lauryn Hill as rap, more R&B or hip-hop soul.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 14:38:47 2003
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 > Doris Markland:
> > =
> > = Anyway I had picked one picture out of
> > = my files to practice on and this happened to
> > = be the one..  It is me in 1948.

Woo woo, as we used to say in 1948.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 14:39:58 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:36:06 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 2:30:06 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> He said that someone came up to him, shook his hand, and said,
>> "I'd love to put you up on Mt. Rushmore". Clinton thanked the guy
>> and the guy said "Yeah, and then I'd like to push you off"....
>>
> I thought that was a GWB joke

He also told a joke about large RR who came up to him and told
Clinton he voted against him twice--and would give anything to
have him back now.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 14:40:49 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:36:26 -0500
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>  > Doris Markland:
> > > =
> > > = Anyway I had picked one picture out of
> > > = my files to practice on and this happened to
> > > = be the one..  It is me in 1948.
>
> Woo woo, as we used to say in 1948.
>
> alyce

Alyce, you and I have almost cloned again.

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 14:41:40 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:37:46 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 2:36:26 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
>>  > Doris Markland:
>> > > =
>> > > = Anyway I had picked one picture out of
>> > > = my files to practice on and this happened to
>> > > = be the one..  It is me in 1948.
>>
>> Woo woo, as we used to say in 1948.
>>
>> alyce

> Alyce, you and I have almost cloned again.

She's our triplet, I'm sure of it.

Karen

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Subject: Re: shields or dupes? (was Yahoo story)
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In a message dated 2/28/2003 4:54:37 AM, rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<< I wonder why they did not think they
> could accomplish more alive.
> >>

They probably do, but I suspect that they expect to instill enough shame in
the attackers, that they might change their minds, and stop. I would
certainly hope so too, but I doubt it, alas. Theo

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:42:59 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-02-28 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I don't know why, this sounds like you.

She must be pretty cute!!@

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From: Groothof2@aol.com
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:50:03 EST
Subject: Re: expectations
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In a message dated 2/28/2003 5:07:29 AM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< I don't know that it's a "right," but have you talked to the postmaster
or whoever is in charge of the mail delivery in your area?  I would
think it might take some kind of official request for the service --
that putting notes in the mailbox wouldn't be enough.
 >>

I'm thinking about doing that, but my dau who has the same carrier told me
that she will do it on her own, and she did, but she must be on vacation, or
was transferred, I dunno.
Just got back from the eye dr., and the news is not good. I will need more
surgery, because this condition is very common after cataract surgery I was
told.
Although it's only one eye sofar, she tells me the other eye has just begun
the condition too. Oh well, at least it's treatable, I hope. Theo

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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         I'm not a fan of the midwestern church tradition of putting
> messages on signs, but several of the churches on my way to
> work have messages related to praying for peace and our
> leaders.  These are good reminders for me -- and somehow
> fitting for my 21st c. life.

I received a message yesterday requesting taking a few moments to pray
for peace at 3 p.m. on March 3, which, since it is 03-03-03, is a good
day to call upon the Trinity.

--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:40:53 -0600
From: Diegetic Mutant Hog <whore@WORDS-L.ORG>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Report
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I deleted most of my words-l mail today, and tomorrow I plan
to do some of the backlogged work on words-l.org. Thanks for
your patience, and now I know why abh etc faded away from the
list ...

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:52:28 -0500
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>From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU>
> > Doris Markland:
> > =       http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld
> >
> > That picture sure made it worth it.
> >
> > steph
>
>woohoo!  sexy!

Doris has got the pimp juice!

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:00:37 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> Just got back from the eye dr., and the news is not good. I will need more
> surgery, because this condition is very common after cataract surgery I was
> told.
> Although it's only one eye sofar, she tells me the other eye has just begun
> the condition too. Oh well, at least it's treatable, I hope.

I must have missed hearing what the problem with your eyes is, but I
hope the treatment is quick and easy...and successful.

alyce

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Sylvia Edwards wrote:
> I received a message yesterday requesting taking a few moments to pray
> for peace at 3 p.m. on March 3, which, since it is 03-03-03, is a good
> day to call upon the Trinity.

I had a 7th Day Adventist drop by the other day without the usual spiel.
She just wanted me to pray for peace and read Proverbs something or
other.

alyce
>
> --
> Sylvia Edwards
> Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
> Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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In a message dated 2/28/2003 6:27:08 AM, bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU writes:

<< >I'm still trying to persuade the carrier to drop it in the box by my door
>instead of in the one by the curb, because I can't reach that one.

Did you explain why?
 >>
Yes, I did, several times. I guess it's too hard to understand if you're
younger, and perfectly healthy. But it's just one thing, and I'm still
grateful that I can manage indoors. Theo

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Subject: Re: shields or suicides? (was Yahoo news)
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In a message dated 2/28/2003 6:37:19 AM, bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU writes:

<< I want to think of it as shielding the innocent people, not Saddam >>

Exactly, Theo

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: PJ or how I learned to love rap/hiphop
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:18:30 -0500
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>From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU>
>But! I am really just learning myself - suggestions gratefully taken.
>Also, I am struggling to learn to love techno, so anyone who
>has good advice for surviving a thumping, repetitive beat w/
>virtually no lyrics, unredeemed or otherwise, I'd be happy to
>hear it... if I have any hearing left after this experiment!
>clo

Eek. Why are you doing this to yourself?

Okay, I'll tell you the trick. You need to take Ecstasy first, put a
pacifier in your mouth, and drink lots of water.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:19:05 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: now that I've woken up
To: words-l <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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The CT scan wasn't a big deal.  I felt guilty taking a whole
day off when I realized I was out of there by 8:30am, but
then the cramping and diarrhea set in.  Let's just say that
barium farts are nothing you want to mess with.  I don't
ever want to drink that stuff again (the IV dye didn't
bother me much, though).

So, I've spoiled myself and spent the day napping and
reading email here and there.  Yawn.


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 15:24:39 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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>Let's just say that barium farts are nothing you want to mess with.


> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
> rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
> http://www.etext.org/~rita


QOTW !

BrP

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In a message dated 2/28/2003 8:50:33 AM, williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU writes:

<< Oh, yea, we ain't THAT casual!
    (Although I do work with a few sneaker-clad short wearers.) >>

Today, when we were waiting in the clinic's waiting room, I noticed that not
ONE woman was wearing a skirt or dress. Only one came in wearing a long
dress. Of course we were wearing slacks too, and when I commented to my dau
about it, I asked her, as a joke, who had ever invented dresses, and she said
#a man, of course!#
With that I had to agree.  :-( Sorry, you guys.  Theo

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Theodora Groothof <Groothof2@AOL.COM>
>Today, when we were waiting in the clinic's waiting room, I noticed that
>not
>ONE woman was wearing a skirt or dress. Only one came in wearing a long
>dress. Of course we were wearing slacks too, and when I commented to my dau
>about it, I asked her, as a joke, who had ever invented dresses, and she
>said
>#a man, of course!#
>With that I had to agree.  :-( Sorry, you guys.  Theo

I have a dress on -- black, long sleeves, mock-turtle neck, falls just above
me knees, black tights, black boots (very pimp juicy), all tamed by an
earthy colored denim-like jacket. I like wearing dresses.

Purple underwear.

Marie


_________________________________________________________________
Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 15:36:19 2003
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<http://www.utilikilt.com/>
for another view
clo

Theodora Groothof wrote:

> In a message dated 2/28/2003 8:50:33 AM, williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU writes:
>
> << Oh, yea, we ain't THAT casual!
>     (Although I do work with a few sneaker-clad short wearers.) >>
>
> Today, when we were waiting in the clinic's waiting room, I noticed that not
> ONE woman was wearing a skirt or dress. Only one came in wearing a long
> dress. Of course we were wearing slacks too, and when I commented to my dau
> about it, I asked her, as a joke, who had ever invented dresses, and she said
> #a man, of course!#
> With that I had to agree.  :-( Sorry, you guys.  Theo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 15:41:36 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: .
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:37:41 -0500
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>
>I have a dress on -- black, long sleeves, mock-turtle neck,
>falls just above
>me knees, black tights, black boots (very pimp juicy), all tamed by an
>earthy colored denim-like jacket. I like wearing dresses.
>
>Purple underwear.
>
>Marie
>
>
Bra?


alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 15:42:05 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:38:09 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pimp Juice
Message-ID: <20030228213809.GC27556@pobox.com>
References: <F11GdlUUx6EfkU9X3me0000aaba@hotmail.com>
            <3E5FACE5.2040707@swbell.net>
            <19197685484.20030228124839@WordWrite.com>
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02003-02-28 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Friday, February 28, 2003, 12:39:33 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
> >         Ah-ha, it all makes sense now.  Of course. Nelly.
>
> Who is Nelly?
>
> Does anyone else get a headache from rap? I literally cannot
> stand to listen to it.

I don't listen to it ... I mean I have listened to absolutely
nothing. When I heard Death Row--RBX, "the Lady of Rage" etc,
it was electrifying. I thought this was the "future of poetry"
etc etc. But everything I chanced to hear since then struck me
as crap. Obviously I wasn't specifically looking for anything
good, so I got what I deserved. However, now when it seems the
global extremum of STUPID--such as Eminem--is at the pinnacle
of the art and whatnot, who the hell wants to listen ... This
"pimp juice" is a good example--stupid no-content lyrics and
the same old prehistoric cadence ... sorry, "exciting (or
inspiring) for teens" isn't the criterion of good ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 15:43:35 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: now that I've woken up
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:39:41 -0500
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>The CT scan wasn't a big deal.  I felt guilty taking a whole
>day off when I realized I was out of there by 8:30am, but
>then the cramping and diarrhea set in.  Let's just say that
>barium farts are nothing you want to mess with.  I don't
>ever want to drink that stuff again (the IV dye didn't
>bother me much, though).
>
>So, I've spoiled myself and spent the day napping and
>reading email here and there.  Yawn.
>
>
>--
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>http://www.etext.org/~rita
>
>

Thanks for the details. I will add this to my words-l archive.



alec

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: .
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:39:41 -0500
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>From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU>
>Bra?

Yes.

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 15:51:23 2003
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Subject: Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
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In a message dated 2/28/2003 1:19:59 PM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:

<< http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld >>

Looks great, but why does it say incolor when it's b/w? Just wondering, Theo

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Was it worth it, Steph??
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:51:32 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Theodora Groothof
>Sent: Friday, February 28, 2003 4:47 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
>
>
>In a message dated 2/28/2003 1:19:59 PM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:
>
><< http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld >>
>
>Looks great, but why does it say incolor when it's b/w? Just
>wondering, Theo
>

I hope a joke. It is the name of the web site, not a reference to color or
b/w.



alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 15:57:45 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:54:21 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: now that I've woken up
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Alec D. Plotkin wrote:

>>The CT scan wasn't a big deal.  I felt guilty taking a whole
>>day off when I realized I was out of there by 8:30am, but
>>then the cramping and diarrhea set in.  Let's just say that
>>barium farts are nothing you want to mess with.  I don't
>>ever want to drink that stuff again (the IV dye didn't
>>bother me much, though).
>>
>>So, I've spoiled myself and spent the day napping and
>>reading email here and there.  Yawn.
>>
>>
>>--
>>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>>rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>>http://www.etext.org/~rita
>>
>>
>>
>
> Thanks for the details. I will add this to my words-l archive.
>


        You're welcome.  Did I tell you about Fishy Fish?  My
daughter's Betta is a sociable little guy.  He likes to blow
bubbles and wave his fins at me when I watch him.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 15:58:19 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 15:54:54 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: .
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Marie Ascher wrote:


> Purple underwear.


        We cloned today!

(I wear dresses nearly every day to work.)




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Subject: Re:      Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
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> In a message dated 2/28/2003 1:19:59 PM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:
>
> << http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld >>
>
> Looks great, but why does it say incolor when it's b/w? Just
wondering, Theo

Why does Leave it to Beaver not show
up in color on my color TV set?

                 - D. M.

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In a message dated 2/28/2003 1:37:13 PM, prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU writes:

<< > Woo woo, as we used to say in 1948. >>

I didn't say that because I was speaking Dutch in 1948 ! grin Theo

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In a message dated 2/28/2003 2:01:37 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< I must have missed hearing what the problem with your eyes is, but I
hope the treatment is quick and easy...and successful.
 >>

I have a film covering it which makes it impossible to see with it, and
thanks for your good wishes. Theo

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:08:08 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Doris Markland wrote:

>>In a message dated 2/28/2003 1:19:59 PM, stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:
>>
>><< http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld >>
>>
>>Looks great, but why does it say incolor when it's b/w? Just
>>
> wondering, Theo
>
> Why does Leave it to Beaver not show
> up in color on my color TV set?
>


        Yo Yooo, it doesn't have da pimp juice, ight?



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Subject: Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
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In a message dated 2/28/2003 2:51:45 PM, plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU writes:

<< I hope a joke. It is the name of the web site, not a reference to color or
b/w.
 >>

Oh. Now I understand. I was just curious, that's all.Theo

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:34:43 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> The CT scan wasn't a big deal.  I felt guilty taking a whole
> day off when I realized I was out of there by 8:30am, but
> then the cramping and diarrhea set in.  Let's just say that
> barium farts are nothing you want to mess with.  I don't
> ever want to drink that stuff again (the IV dye didn't
> bother me much, though).

Remember the other day when I said the dye was not so bad? And that a
barium enema is much worse? But I had no idea when I said that that you
were going to have one. I didn't understand what you meant about
drinking "it." I never knew that it went with a CT scan. Or did you have
another procedure as well?

alyce
>
> So, I've spoiled myself and spent the day napping and
> reading email here and there.  Yawn.
>
> --
> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
> rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
> http://www.etext.org/~rita


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Is it that we have not yet discussed today's new plan for the government
getting background material on all flyers?
If you are green, you are OK. Yellow? Perhaps a risk, so you get
additional hassling. Red, watch out. They want not just your name and
address, but your financial rating, and perhaps they will let local
authorities tap into it so they can catch deadbeat dads, people who have
parking tickets, etc., too. And they intend keeping the records for 50
years!

Does no one but me get upset at the vanishing of civil liberties?

alyce in the State of Outrage as well as New York
--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:49:28 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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>Public Information Research has nominated Google, Inc. for corporate
>Big Brother of 2003. This is the 5th year that Privacy International
>( http://www.privacyinternational.org/bigbrother/us2003/ ) has offered
>this award.
>
>Any member of the public can make their nominations before March 1.
>If you agree with us, please add your nomination for Google also,
>and put your reasons in the box provided by Privacy International so
>that their panel of judges can read them. Only about 60 seconds are
>needed to submit your nomination at:
>
>http://www.privacyinternational.org/bigbrother/us2003/bbanominate.html
>
>Public Information Research, Inc., a nonprofit public charity,
>sponsors the following websites:
>
>      http://www.google-watch.org
>      http://www.namebase.org
>      http://www.cia-on-campus.org
>
>Below are some reasons why we nominated Google. Privacy International
>will announce the decision of the panel of judges on April 3 at the
>Annual Conference on Computers, Freedom and Privacy in New York City.
>
>1. Google's immortal cookie:
>
>Google was the first search engine to use a cookie that expires in
>2038. This was at a time when federal websites were prohibited from
>using persistent cookies altogether. Now it's years later, and
>immortal cookies are commonplace among search engines; Google set
>the standard because no one bothered to challenge them. This cookie
>places a unique ID number on your hard disk. Anytime you land on a
>Google page, you get a Google cookie if you don't already have one.
>If you have one, they read and record your unique ID number.
>
>2. Google records everything they can:
>
>For all searches they record the cookie ID, your Internet IP
>address, the time and date, your search terms, and your browser
>configuration. Increasingly, Google is customizing results based on
>your IP number. This is referred to in the industry as "IP delivery
>based on geolocation."
>
>3. Google retains all data indefinitely:
>
>Google has no data retention policies. There is evidence that they
>are able to easily access all the user information they collect and
>save.
>
>4. Google won't say why they need this data:
>
>Inquiries to Google about their privacy policies are ignored. When
>the New York Times (2002-11-28) asked Sergey Brin about whether
>Google ever gets subpoenaed for this information, he had no comment.
>
>5. Google hires spooks:
>
>Matt Cutts, a key Google engineer, used to work for the National
>Security Agency. Google wants to hire more people with security
>clearances, so that they can peddle their corporate assets to the
>spooks in Washington.
>
>6. Google's toolbar is spyware:
>
>With the advanced features enabled, Google's free toolbar for
>Explorer phones home with every page you surf. Yes, it reads your
>cookie too, and sends along the last search terms you used in the
>toolbar. Their privacy policy confesses this, but that's only
>because Alexa lost a class-action lawsuit when their toolbar did
>the same thing, and their privacy policy failed to explain this.
>Worse yet, Google's toolbar updates to new versions quietly, and
>without asking. This means that if you have the toolbar installed,
>Google essentially has complete access to your hard disk every time
>you phone home. Most software vendors, and even Microsoft, ask if
>you'd like an updated version. But not Google.
>
>7. Google's cache copy is illegal:
>
>Judging from Ninth Circuit precedent on the application of U.S.
>copyright laws to the Internet, Google's cache copy appears to be
>illegal. The only way a webmaster can avoid having his site cached
>on Google is to put a "noarchive" meta in the header of every page
>on his site. Surfers like the cache, but webmasters don't. Many
>webmasters have deleted questionable material from their sites,
>only to discover later that the problem pages live merrily on in
>Google's cache. The cache copy should be "opt-in" for webmasters,
>not "opt-out."
>
>8. Google is not your friend:
>
>Young, stupid script kiddies and many bloggers still think Google
>is "way kool," so by now Google enjoys a 75 percent monopoly for
>all external referrals to most websites. No webmaster can avoid
>seeking Google's approval these days, assuming he wants to increase
>traffic to his site. If he tries to take advantage of some of the
>known weaknesses in Google's semi-secret algorithms, he may find
>himself penalized by Google, and his traffic disappears. There are
>no detailed, published standards issued by Google, and there is no
>appeal process for penalized sites. Google is completely
>unaccountable. Most of the time they don't even answer email from
>webmasters.
>
>9. Google is a privacy time bomb:
>
>With 150 million searches per day, most from outside the U.S.,
>Google amounts to a privacy disaster waiting to happen. Those
>newly-commissioned data-mining bureaucrats in Washington can only
>dream about the sort of slick efficiency that Google has already
>achieved.
>
>Thank you,
>Daniel Brandt
>PIR president
>
--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 17:00:48 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 14:56:21 -0800
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From: Peter Kaminski <kaminski@istori.com>
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And from an intelligent person on another list:

>The real agenda of Bush is to develop a high military low welfare state
>for maximum competitive advantage with Asia and Europe. The costs of
>Iraq will lead to the 'request' by Bush that we realize that we had to
>pay for it with social security, and we should move to privatized real
>time accounts anyway. End of social security.
>
>Divisions within europe and asia are to be encouraged.
>
>America (oh no, not the "latin" part, just the good old USA) is the only
>light left in Christian civilization (they think), and we will use
>American strength to make it the dominant world empire.

Pete

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:57:47 -0500
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>Is it that we have not yet discussed today's new plan for the government
>getting background material on all flyers?
>
>Does no one but me get upset at the vanishing of civil liberties?
>alyce in the State of Outrage as well as New York

I just read about it in today's Boston Globe.   It did seem a bit
outrageous.  It sounds like Northwest Airlines already has all the computer
stuff in place.  And I just bought two tickets from them online this week.

But then I'm still reeling from the ignorant attitudes of several women at
my Wednesday stitch'n'bitch.   One has dropped out of the local Catholic
church because the pastor had the "audacity" to speak for peace during his
sermon when he should have kept to discussing Scripture.   He also invited
one of the College of the Atlantic students "with those dread locks" to
speak during the service.   This particular woman is so prejudiced against
the educated classes that I find her extremely uncomfortable to be
around.  She's the main reason I didn't go to stitch'n'bitch last season.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 17:20:17 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:14:41 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: now that I've woken up
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>The CT scan wasn't a big deal.  I felt guilty taking a whole
>>day off when I realized I was out of there by 8:30am, but
>>then the cramping and diarrhea set in.  Let's just say that
>>barium farts are nothing you want to mess with.  I don't
>>ever want to drink that stuff again (the IV dye didn't
>>bother me much, though).
>>
>
> Remember the other day when I said the dye was not so bad? And that a
> barium enema is much worse? But I had no idea when I said that that you
> were going to have one. I didn't understand what you meant about
> drinking "it." I never knew that it went with a CT scan. Or did you have
> another procedure as well?


        No, no enema :).  I had to drink a couple bottles of barium.
  I assume what you do depends on what they're looking at.
Most people have no problem with it, but I'm ever the weirdo.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:24:33 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>         No, no enema :).

Be thankful. It is much worse  than drinking it.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:24:49 -0700
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alyce cresap wrote:

> >7. Google's cache copy is illegal:
> >
> >Judging from Ninth Circuit precedent on the application of U.S.
> >copyright laws to the Internet,

    The Ninth Circuit Court's knowledge of the law ranks with my ability to
play the sackbut.  The Careful Reader will notice that The Gubbmint figures
not in all of this.  Free Market Capitalism is selling the rope to hang us.

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 17:35:29 2003
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Subject: red-yellow-green
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Thanks for the heads-up, Alyce.  Here's how I passed it on:

Read 'em and weep.  Gonna have to get intimate with the government if you
want to get on the plane.

I think CAPPS II and the related "registered traveler program" are
wrong.  I'd rather keep my freedoms and civil liberties than get the
security of Big Brother, thank you very much.

CAPPS II Data-Mining System Will Invade Privacy and Create Government
Blacklist of Americans, ACLU Warns
<http://www.aclu.org/Privacy/Privacy.cfm?ID=11956&c=130>

On Law: Virtually naked at the airport
<http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20030228-074054-9701r>

Wednesday January 22, 2003 - Remarks by Admiral James Loy, U.S. Conference
of Mayors Meeting Topic: Aviation Security, Capital Hilton, Washington, D.C.
<http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?content=486>

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 17:46:01 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Peter Kaminski <kaminski@istori.com>
Subject: Re: interesting if true--google story
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Mostly true, but *way* over-hyped, to the extent that it looks like a
deliberate smear campaign.

Ad servers are worse, and they're much less voluntary or generally useful
than using Google.

If you're paranoid, it's pretty easy to block or make cookies session-only,
or delete your cookies once in a while, or use a privacy proxy.

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 18:02:56 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:58:48 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Carolyn Ostrander wrote:

> I know what you mean about the hubris of the act; but I
> do think that one of the ways this could go leads to those
> of us who voice opposition being imprisoned or killed
> anyway, even if we do nothing outwardly to oppose.

I'm not sure what you mean.  I'm going to be imprisoned or killed for my
bumper sticker and my participation in marches in rallies and my signing
net war-protests, etc?  Well, I might be killed by a nut, of course, but
imprisoned?

> Given that, I am inclined to stand up now (if I can find
> the right way) rather than waiting and hoping not to be
> noticed.

What kind of "right way" are you looking for?

> Remember Dante - although I am quoting the tshirt, not
> the man -  the hottest places in hell are reserved for those
> who remain neutral in a time of moral crisis.

My memory of Dante is that the neutrals were pretty close to the gate,
but I'm certainly not advocating neutrality (though on some issues I
find myself unable to decide -- iow, a fence-sitter).  On the issue of
the upcoming war, I have no trouble at all knowing what I believe and no
hesitancy at all in voicing that opinion, whether here or in ftf
gatherings or in peace marches/rallies or in bumper sticker or in faxes
to my Senators (a losing cause there, but it doesn't stop me) or signing
web petitions or whatever.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 18:08:58 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:04:43 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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John Williams wrote:
>
> "Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
>
> > ..
>
>     At last, something we all can agree on.

Not necessarily.  I'm still debating whether to side with Alec on .. or
with Bad Betty on ....  (That last one was a period.  I'm not trying to
accuse BB of suggesting four instead of three.)  Then again, I think
there's a case to be made for ........

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 18:12:10 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:08:02 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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John Williams wrote:

>   Oh, and, uh, lets see,  forest-green
> briefs.

Ooooh.  You're turning us on.  This reminds me that at some point in the
middle of a French diplomat's talk I went to late this afternoon I
started picturing in my mind his sinclair.  I don't know why my mind
wandered to that thought.  Maybe because he wasn't saying anything
startling (and everything he said I totally agreed with).

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 18:13:54 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 16:09:33 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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><http://www.utilikilt.com/>

Those are all over the place here, on men and women -- especially in
the RenFaire/kink/science fiction vector.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 18:15:32 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:11:29 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:

> What, you couldn't remember from when you put them on this
> morning?  Man, you are getting old.

I want to know how many different colors he wears.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
> Octibbeha (sic) is running in today's
> third at the Fairgrounds, number 8 in
> the white, Gerard Melancon up.

Is it too late to bet?  Sure sounds like a winner to me!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:13:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Was it worth it, Steph??
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 2:52:28 PM, Marie Ascher wrote:

>>From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU>
>> > Doris Markland:
>> > =       http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld
>> >
>> > That picture sure made it worth it.
>> >
>> > steph
>>
>>woohoo!  sexy!

> Doris has got the pimp juice!

She had it then--but she's over 50 now!!!

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:13:15 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:

>     http://www.dmtc.com/p/17655.php

404 Not Found

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: now that I've woken up
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In a message dated 2/28/2003 3:34:50 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< I never knew that it went with a CT scan. Or did you have
another procedure as well? >>

I never had any of this unpleasant stuff, only blood tests, but they only
scanned my brain, perhaps that's why! Theo

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:22:31 -0600
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Karen Kay wrote:

> He's a good speaker. The demand for tickets was so high, the

Remember how Too Long he spoke at -- which convention was it? -- I'm
blanking.  It as a good while before he became Pres.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:23:37 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 2:33:03 PM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> Also, I am struggling to learn to love techno, so anyone who
> has good advice for surviving a thumping, repetitive beat w/
> virtually no lyrics, unredeemed or otherwise, I'd be happy to
> hear it... if I have any hearing left after this experiment!

Why do you want to learn to love techno?

I admit, I can't stand it. It isn't that it gives me a headache,
but I find myself falling asleep.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:25:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

>       http://www.incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld

Great picture!  You could have sold it to something like a suntan oil
commercial.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
> Octibbeha paid 4.60 to show.

What does this mean?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> He also told a joke about large RR who came up to him and told
> Clinton he voted against him twice--and would give anything to
> have him back now.

That really is one thing I don't understand about Republicans.  They
talk about <fiscal responsibility> etc. etc.  Yet when they're in
office, the national debt soars upward and the country's economy goes to
shit.  I really don't get it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Friday, February 28, 2003, 3:25:56 PM, Theodora Groothof wrote:

> In a message dated 2/28/2003 8:50:33 AM, williams@MAIL.MC.MARICOPA.EDU writes:

> << Oh, yea, we ain't THAT casual!
>     (Although I do work with a few sneaker-clad short wearers.) >>

> Today, when we were waiting in the clinic's waiting room, I noticed that not
> ONE woman was wearing a skirt or dress. Only one came in wearing a long
> dress. Of course we were wearing slacks too, and when I commented to my dau
> about it, I asked her, as a joke, who had ever invented dresses, and she said
> #a man, of course!#
> With that I had to agree.  :-( Sorry, you guys.  Theo

I prefer dresses to pants.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:46:25 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

> So, I've spoiled myself and spent the day napping and
> reading email here and there.  Yawn.

Good move.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:47:55 -0600
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Marie Ascher wrote:
> I like wearing dresses.

I do in summer.  The reason I don't in winter is that I detest panty
hose.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 18:53:29 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:49:33 -0500
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utk.edu>
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>I prefer dresses to pants.
>
>Karen

Well, we're definitely not soulmates.

A dress would be a definite nuisance much of the day for me - for
instance, ever try to hike out for your horse in a dress?

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 18:55:33 2003
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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utk.edu>
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>> I like wearing dresses.
>
>I do in summer.  The reason I don't in winter is that I detest panty
>hose.
>
> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I pretty much gave up ph many years ago. I wear them 3-4 times a year.

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 18:59:43 2003
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bonniev wrote:

>   It sounds like Northwest Airlines already has all the computer
> stuff in place.

Oh goody.  As I think I've said before, I've never known what my
<colors> are supposed to be.  Maybe NW will tell me.  (I realized just a
few days ago that I've lost something like $35 by failing to use the
change from a NW coupon I cashed in a while back.  It expires in a
couple of weeks.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 19:00:33 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:56:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 6:49:33 PM, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:

>>I prefer dresses to pants.
>>
>>Karen

> Well, we're definitely not soulmates.

Gee, what was your first clue?

> A dress would be a definite nuisance much of the day for me - for
> instance, ever try to hike out for your horse in a dress?

I've never owned a horse. But I've always worked in places that
have restrooms, and changed my clothes before doing something
<rigorous>. Has your university cut back?

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 18:57:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 6:51:37 PM, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:

>>> I like wearing dresses.
>>
>>I do in summer.  The reason I don't in winter is that I detest panty
>>hose.
>>
>> -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

> I pretty much gave up ph many years ago. I wear them 3-4 times a year.

I wear them less than that.

Karen

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

>Gee, what was your first clue?

You don't want to hear it!

>I've never owned a horse. But I've always worked in places that
>have restrooms, and changed my clothes before doing something ...

You must have more clothes-changing time than I have.

Has your university cut back?

On what?

Bethany

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02003-02-28 | Peter Kaminski <kaminski@ISTORI.COM> writes:
> Mostly true, but *way* over-hyped, to the extent that it looks like a
> deliberate smear campaign.
>
> Ad servers are worse, and they're much less voluntary or generally useful
> than using Google.
>
> If you're paranoid, it's pretty easy to block or make cookies session-only,
> or delete your cookies once in a while, or use a privacy proxy.

Right, the cookies point is obviously overhyped, which makes everything
else an "overhype suspect". On the other hand, I don't believe most ad
servers can organize their information to save their life, but it's
Google's business and they clearly do it masterfully.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 19:17:11 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:13:14 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 6:59:08 PM, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

>>Gee, what was your first clue?

> You don't want to hear it!

>>I've never owned a horse. But I've always worked in places that
>>have restrooms, and changed my clothes before doing something ...

> You must have more clothes-changing time than I have.

Oh, probably. I had it down to 3 minutes when I didn't,
though--including peeing.

> Has your university cut back?

> On what?

Restrooms.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 19:40:31 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 17:38:16 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
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>Marie Ascher wrote:
>>  I like wearing dresses.
>
>I do in summer.  The reason I don't in winter is that I detest panty
>hose.

I like tights with my skirts, but it's hard to find the good sturdy
Danskin ones. I tend to wear leggings a lot. If I want to wear a
skirt, I wear one long enough that I can wear boots with it and not
worry about stockings at all.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 19:56:48 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:42:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

>> You must have more clothes-changing time than I have.
>
>Oh, probably. I had it down to 3 minutes when I didn't,
>though--including peeing.

Didn't what? It's not the single change - it's the time involved in
carrying an extra set of clothes, changing, changing back, etc.
>> Has your university cut back?
>
>> On what?
>
>Restrooms.

Not that I know of. But when I change clothes at the univ., it's either
in my office or the acquatic center.

Bethany

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 19:58:24 2003
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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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When I moved here, I did not own a dress. I own several now of varying
levels of formality and wear them all occasionally.

Bethany

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 19:58:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 7:42:51 PM, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:

> On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

>>> You must have more clothes-changing time than I have.
>>
>>Oh, probably. I had it down to 3 minutes when I didn't,
>>though--including peeing.

> Didn't what?

Have extra clothes-changing time.

> It's not the single change - it's the time involved in
> carrying an extra set of clothes, changing, changing back, etc.

Why do you have to change back? In any case, I don't understand
why extra time is involved in carrying a change of clothes.

Karen

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>I like tights with my skirts, but it's hard to find the good sturdy
>Danskin ones. I tend to wear leggings a lot.

DKNY or Hue.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:14:42 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:10:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I guess this is principally for Clyde, but... Ligniere gave me
all of his familial sourdough starter. (This is a long story, but
his mother can no longer make bread. So she gave it to him and he
gave it to me.) But it's dried, and I'm not sure quite what to do
with it. Do I just add water? How do I know how much water to
add?

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:22:55 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:18:55 -0600
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"Bethany K. Dumas" wrote:
> >> I like wearing dresses.
> >I do in summer.  The reason I don't in winter is that I detest panty
> >hose.
> I pretty much gave up ph many years ago. I wear them 3-4 times a year.

I wear them only to weddings or funerals in summer, which means some
summers I don't have to wear them at all, thank goodness.  But in winter
with dresses I find them necessary -- because of shoes.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:24:52 2003
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> I like tights with my skirts, but it's hard to find the good sturdy
> Danskin ones. I tend to wear leggings a lot.

How are such things different from panyhose?

> If I want to wear a
> skirt, I wear one long enough that I can wear boots with it and not
> worry about stockings at all.

I don't have any boots.  I used to.  Wonder what happened to them.
Wonder if I have them stuck away somewhere.  I think not.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:26:38 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:22:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Why do you have to change back? In any case, I don't understand
> why extra time is involved in carrying a change of clothes.

Carrying a change of clothes somewhere strikes me as a hassle.  One
thing that would require extra times is putting them into something to
carry them in.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:24:44 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I guess this is principally for Clyde, but... Ligniere gave me
> all of his familial sourdough starter. (This is a long story, but
> his mother can no longer make bread. So she gave it to him and he
> gave it to me.) But it's dried, and I'm not sure quite what to do
> with it. Do I just add water? How do I know how much water to
> add?

Just don't put it in a closet and forget about it.  I speak with
experience on that -- some sourdough starter that was forgotten and that
turned into a wildebeestie in a dark closet.  This was in about 1970.
Maybe sourdough starter is different now.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:32:29 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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I have nothing to say about Survivor.  Maybe I was discombobulated by
watching it on the wrong night or something, but it struck me as very
ho-hum.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:38:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:22:36 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Carrying a change of clothes somewhere strikes me as a hassle.  One
> thing that would require extra times is putting them into something to
> carry them in.

Oh. I have a thing of plastic bags in the kitchen and a thing of
cloth bags of various sizes and types in the hall closet. But I
often put things in bags to carry them.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:42:00 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:38:11 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Oh goody.  As I think I've said before, I've never known what my
> <colors> are supposed to be.

?? What colors do you mean? There has been no color system till now.
Delta is doing the first test at three unnamed airports.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:43:59 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:40:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:24:44 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Just don't put it in a closet and forget about it.  I speak with
> experience on that -- some sourdough starter that was forgotten and that
> turned into a wildebeestie in a dark closet.  This was in about 1970.
> Maybe sourdough starter is different now.

I don't understand. In the first place, sourdough starter is
supposed to be a wildebeestie. And in the second place, this
stuff has been dried for several years already.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:44:28 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:40:31 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:32:29 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I have nothing to say about Survivor.  Maybe I was discombobulated by
> watching it on the wrong night or something, but it struck me as very
> ho-hum.

I am no longer ashamed to be a woman.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:45:14 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:41:21 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:38:11 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Natalie Maynor wrote:
>> Oh goody.  As I think I've said before, I've never known what my
>> <colors> are supposed to be.

> ?? What colors do you mean?

She means for fashion.

>  There has been no color system till now.
> Delta is doing the first test at three unnamed airports.

Speaking of which, did you know our alert level went down?

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:48:40 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:
> Speaking of which, did you know our alert level went down?

Yes, that happened yesterday. I should have alerted you all as I seem to
be the only one who learns things at the moment they happen. Or at least
the only one who ever mentions them. I remember now that I thought of
rushing to the computer to say "Yellow, not orange," but I was sort of
taking a dozing (half awake/half asleep) kind of nap and the urge
passed.

alyce

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:49:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: red-green-yellow
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:44:52 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Speaking of which, did you know our alert level went down?

> Yes, that happened yesterday.

Huh. I only heard it on the news today, and it was covered very
quickly--unlike when it went up.

> I should have alerted you all as I seem to be the only one who
> learns things at the moment they happen. Or at least the only
> one who ever mentions them.

I hate watching the news lately.

> I remember now that I thought of rushing to the computer to say
> "Yellow, not orange," but I was sort of taking a dozing (half
> awake/half asleep) kind of nap and the urge passed.

I think naps are more important...

I'm having a Chicago Moment:  they sell Uno's pizzas at one of
the grocery stores I frequent. I bought one, and sauteed some
leeks, mushrooms, red pepper, and garlice and put it on top. Yum.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:48:12 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> > Oh goody.  As I think I've said before, I've never known what my
> > <colors> are supposed to be.
>
> ?? What colors do you mean? There has been no color system till now.

The colors we've talked about here before.  Many Wordslers have talked
about their <colors>.  I'm wondering what my NW color will be.

I hate how slow the computer gets when Norton is doing its Friday-night
virus-scanning thing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:46:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Carrying a change of clothes somewhere strikes me as a hassle.  One
> > thing that would require extra times is putting them into something to
> > carry them in.
>
> Oh. I have a thing of plastic bags in the kitchen and a thing of
> cloth bags of various sizes and types in the hall closet. But I
> often put things in bags to carry them.

I have tons of bags of all kinds.  Finding bags isn't a problem.  But
putting stuff into them and toting the stuff wherever requires extra
time.  Even toting Wmart's bags back for recycling is a slight
time-user.  I keep thinking that I should store the Wmart bags in my car
so that I wouldn't have to remember to dig them out of where I store
them to take them back.  I forget for weeks sometimes and then have a
huge passle of bags to gather up and take.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 20:55:19 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:49:50 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Just don't put it in a closet and forget about it.  I speak with
> > experience on that -- some sourdough starter that was forgotten and that
> > turned into a wildebeestie in a dark closet.  This was in about 1970.
> > Maybe sourdough starter is different now.
>
> I don't understand. In the first place, sourdough starter is
> supposed to be a wildebeestie. And in the second place, this
> stuff has been dried for several years already.

I don't know about the dried situation.  I just remember that the
sourdough starter we put into a closet and remembered a couple of years
later had mutated in strange ways.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> I am no longer ashamed to be a woman.

Were you before?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:07:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

>> It's not the single change - it's the time involved in
>> carrying an extra set of clothes, changing, changing back, etc.
>
>Why do you have to change back? In any case, I don't understand
>why extra time is involved in carrying a change of clothes.

Well, if I decide to wear dresses on campus, I would not want to wear a
dress there for a few hours, then wear something else for another few
hours. That doesn't make any sense. So I would have to change back

I do not have a servant who selects my second set of clothes each morning,
puts them on appropriate hangers, carries them to the car for me, carries
them from my car to my office, etc. How can it NOT take extra time to take
extra clothes?

Bethany

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Speaking of which, did you know our alert level went down?

Wasn't that a day or two ago?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> Yes, that happened yesterday. I should have alerted you all as I seem to
> be the only one who learns things at the moment they happen.

Whether I learn them when they happen depends on when they happen.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 20:59:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:46:27 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I have tons of bags of all kinds.  Finding bags isn't a problem.  But
> putting stuff into them and toting the stuff wherever requires extra
> time.

Uh, okay. I don't really see it, but whatever.

> Even toting Wmart's bags back for recycling is a slight
> time-user.

More than putting clothes in a bag?!

> I keep thinking that I should store the Wmart bags in my car
> so that I wouldn't have to remember to dig them out of where I store
> them to take them back.  I forget for weeks sometimes and then have a
> huge passle of bags to gather up and take.

My plastic bag store is on the inside of the pantry door, but I
put a bag on the outside pantry door handle for the newspaper
bags and other bags that are going to be recycled. I tie it up
once a week and put it into the front hall, and it goes from
there to my car, and thence to Sun Harvest. I hate recycling bags
at Walmart, because you have to find someone to give them to. At
Sun Harvest, I can just pop them in the recycling thing.

Anyway, I'd say this takes no time, because each stage--putting a
bag on the door, tying up the bag, and picking up the bag to put
in my car--takes about 5 seconds, tops. Well, maybe 15 seconds to
walk to the front hall and back. I'll have to time it.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:02:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:07:20 PM, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:
 >>> It's not the single change - it's the time involved in
>>> carrying an extra set of clothes, changing, changing back, etc.
>>
>>Why do you have to change back? In any case, I don't understand
>>why extra time is involved in carrying a change of clothes.

> Well, if I decide to wear dresses on campus, I would not want to wear a
> dress there for a few hours, then wear something else for another few
> hours. That doesn't make any sense. So I would have to change back

LOL. I don't understand this, but whatever. I'm glad you're happy
doing whatever it is you're doing.

> I do not have a servant who selects my second set of clothes each morning,
> puts them on appropriate hangers, carries them to the car for me, carries
> them from my car to my office, etc. How can it NOT take extra time to take
> extra clothes?

'hangers'???? Wooee, we live in different worlds.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:02:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:49:50 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I don't know about the dried situation.

Thanks for your help.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:02:51 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > Even toting Wmart's bags back for recycling is a slight
> > time-user.
>
> More than putting clothes in a bag?!

No.  That's why I said "even" and "slight."

> I hate recycling bags
> at Walmart, because you have to find someone to give them to. At
> Sun Harvest, I can just pop them in the recycling thing.

How weird your Wmart must be.  I just dump them into the recycling bin
near the Wmart door.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:03:15 -0600
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:52:09 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:

>> I am no longer ashamed to be a woman.

> Were you before?

Yes. I hated those women. But at least they cooperated when it
mattered.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:04:01 -0600
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 8:53:07 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:

>> Speaking of which, did you know our alert level went down?

> Wasn't that a day or two ago?

I heard it announced today like it happened today.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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Karen Kay wrote:
> > I don't know about the dried situation.
>
> Thanks for your help.

You're quite welcome.  Maybe you'll produce a dry wildebeestie.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:02:51 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I hate recycling bags
>> at Walmart, because you have to find someone to give them to. At
>> Sun Harvest, I can just pop them in the recycling thing.

> How weird your Wmart must be.  I just dump them into the recycling bin
> near the Wmart door.

I go to three different Walmarts, and they are all the same. The
recycling bin is near the door, but they get upset if you open
it--they use it to store their crap on. Clipboards and stuff.

Probably nowadays I'd be arrested for espionage.

Karen

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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:04:06 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > I don't know about the dried situation.
>>
>> Thanks for your help.

> You're quite welcome.  Maybe you'll produce a dry wildebeestie.

It already *is* dry wildebeestie. That's the whole point.

Karen

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:09:04 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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How much can these little white FBI planes that are flying around really
see?  Supposedly they're watching foreign students, but I'm wondering
exactly what they're watching them doing -- like what they can really
see.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:11:53 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I go to three different Walmarts, and they are all the same. The
> recycling bin is near the door, but they get upset if you open
> it--they use it to store their crap on. Clipboards and stuff.

I find that quite bizarre.  Sometimes the one at my Wmart is stuffed
beyond capacity and you have to pile bags on top of it or even sometimes
beside it.  But they do seem to clear out the bags pretty often to make
room for more.  I think it's mainly weekends when it starts
overflowing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:11:53 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I find that quite bizarre.  Sometimes the one at my Wmart is stuffed
> beyond capacity and you have to pile bags on top of it or even sometimes
> beside it.  But they do seem to clear out the bags pretty often to make
> room for more.  I think it's mainly weekends when it starts
> overflowing.

I've never seen a full one at Walmart.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 21:19:39 2003
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I've never seen a full one at Walmart.

I think we live in different universes.  Then again, maybe your Wmarts
empty them every hour on the hour or some such.  I'm guessing that mine
empties every several days.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 21:19:24 -0600
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:15:37 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I've never seen a full one at Walmart.

> I think we live in different universes.  Then again, maybe your Wmarts
> empty them every hour on the hour or some such.  I'm guessing that mine
> empties every several days.

I think you live in a college town. Probably more
Walmart-visiters recycle there. I suspect that most of the people
who recycle here also visit Sun Harvest on a regular basis.

Karen

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From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:

>'hangers'???? Wooee, we live in different worlds.

You do not keep your dresses on hangers?

Bethany

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02003-02-28 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I'm having a Chicago Moment:  they sell Uno's pizzas at one of
> the grocery stores I frequent. I bought one, and sauteed some
> leeks, mushrooms, red pepper, and garlice and put it on top. Yum.

By the way it's my duty to inform everybody that one of the
truly best stuffed / deep dish pizzas in Chicago is made two
steps from here. People just don't know it. Maybe I will order
one today--I haven't had one for months. Though I will put
sauteed nothing on the pizza. And now for the question: how
many people think that asking for spinach and black olives
in a pizza is strange? I can't for the life of me see why
that's "strange" but when I suggested it everybody else
called me a damn weirdo and got mushrooms instead. Those
mushrooms are lame, I have known that for years ...

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:00:02 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:43:15 PM, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
> On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:
>>'hangers'???? Wooee, we live in different worlds.

> You do not keep your dresses on hangers?

Yes. I don't bother with hangers when I bring clothes with me,
however.

I just realized that I started this changing-of-clothes thing
when I used to bike to school in Hawaii. My biking clothes were
often in no shape to be worn to class. So I'd change twice/day.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 22:07:27 2003
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Message-ID: <012901c2dfa8$0d4dd6a0$4d0332d1@0018079268>
From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <005001c2df37$ff7554b0$48305b80@EAGLE72>           
            <4.2.2.20030228071956.00ad6190@uclink.berkeley.edu>           
            <3E5F7E31.A9DBF4F2@mail.mc.maricopa.edu> 
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Subject: Re:      Re: .
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:07:18 -0600
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>
> Ooooh.  You're turning us on.  This reminds me that at some point in
the
> middle of a French diplomat's talk I went to late this afternoon I
> started picturing in my mind his sinclair.  I don't know why my mind
> wandered to that thought.  Maybe because he wasn't saying anything
> startling (and everything he said I totally agreed with).
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

It's the French influence, no doubt about it.
And you know they hate us because we
are not sexy enough.  We have our noses
to the grindstone too much to think about
that.  And that bothers them.  ;-)

            - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 22:08:32 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:08:19 -0600
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>
> > Doris has got the pimp juice!
>
> She had it then--but she's over 50 now!!!
>
> Karen

What?  You think it just drains away???


               - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 22:09:41 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:05:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: red-green-yellow
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:59:22 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> By the way it's my duty to inform everybody that one of the
> truly best stuffed / deep dish pizzas in Chicago is made two
> steps from here.

I'm sure that Uno's is not the best. But it's what they sell
here, and it's cheaper than Domino's.

> People just don't know it. Maybe I will order
> one today--I haven't had one for months. Though I will put
> sauteed nothing on the pizza.

If I had decent pizza, I wouldn't have to!

> And now for the question: how many people think that asking for
> spinach and black olives in a pizza is strange?

I think it's strange only because the olives are black. Everyone
knows that green olives are best on pizza.

> I can't for the life of me see why that's "strange" but when I
> suggested it everybody else called me a damn weirdo and got
> mushrooms instead. Those mushrooms are lame, I have known that
> for years ...

Well, yes. I would have put green garlic-stuffed olives on mine
instead, but I fell and broke the bottle a few weeks ago.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 22:10:28 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:06:31 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 10:08:19 PM, Doris Markland wrote:

>>
>> > Doris has got the pimp juice!
>>
>> She had it then--but she's over 50 now!!!
>>
>> Karen

> What?  You think it just drains away???

That was part of the definition that someone provided. Marie,
maybe. Sorry, I can't help the facts.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 22:23:35 2003
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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:19:31 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Sourdough Starter Q
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At 08:10 PM 2/28/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>I guess this is principally for Clyde, but... Ligniere gave me
>all of his familial sourdough starter. (This is a long story, but
>his mother can no longer make bread. So she gave it to him and he
>gave it to me.) But it's dried, and I'm not sure quite what to do
>with it. Do I just add water? How do I know how much water to
>add?

OK.  First--is it totally dry, i.e., like dust, or just really really
firm?  If it is totally dry, you might try crumbling it, mixing that with a
little flour, and then adding water (in volume, about as much water as the
flour/sourdough mix) and see if anything happens (give it an hour or so at
room temp.).  If you get some bubbles and typical sourdough odor, then
proceed as follows---otherwise, dump it and if you want sourdough, begin
from scratch.  If it is not totally dry, then I would start by adding some
water to moisten it, then after it has "worked" for a few hours at room
temperature (in a bowl/jar covered with a cloth), add equal amounts of
flour and water, let it work a little more, then store in the
refrigerator.  Basically, yeast, whether sourdough type or not, can survive
drying (otherwise, of course, you couldn't buy it in envelopes).  The real
question is whether it dried before it used up all of its food and
died.  This is why I suggested the test.  To store it, you will need a
container that has a strong closure---I like the the wire, snap-top glass
jars, but I suppose a Mason jar with a good, tight-f-tting lid would work.

However you do it, what you end up with will probably be some combination
of what Ligniere gave you and the "resident" yeast of your house/local
area.  So, don't expect San Francisco (or better yet, Seattle)-type
sourdough.  It will, however, still be good.

cwv

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:19:50 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Great Moments in Television
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http://americanpolitics.com/20030222letter.html

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:21:37 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: red-green-yellow
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02003-02-28 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> > And now for the question: how many people think that asking for
> > spinach and black olives in a pizza is strange?
>
> I think it's strange only because the olives are black. Everyone
> knows that green olives are best on pizza.

Strangely enough, that's precisely what they all chorused.

I have heard that chorusing is a strangely satisfying activity ...

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At 09:59 PM 2/28/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
>By the way it's my duty to inform everybody that one of the
>truly best stuffed / deep dish pizzas in Chicago is made two
>steps from here. People just don't know it. Maybe I will order
>one today--I haven't had one for months. Though I will put
>sauteed nothing on the pizza. And now for the question: how
>many people think that asking for spinach and black olives
>in a pizza is strange? I can't for the life of me see why
>that's "strange"

Nor I (although Bonnie probably wouldn't enjoy that combination).  Lately,
on my half of our home-made pizzas, I have been using kalamata and Greek
green olives---very nice.  Also, fresh spinach (or chard) sauteed with
olive oil, garlic and your choice of olives is a great dish.

cwv

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:32:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Sourdough Starter Q
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 10:19:31 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> OK.  First--is it totally dry, i.e., like dust, or just really really
> firm?

It's dry lumps. Totally dry--he said that his mom had had this
for a few years.

>  If it is totally dry, you might try crumbling it, mixing that with a
> little flour, and then adding water (in volume, about as much water as the
> flour/sourdough mix) and see if anything happens (give it an hour or so at
> room temp.).

Okay.

I felt like I needed to ask, but this is what I probably would
have done if I hadn't asked. Which is to say, I understand the
sense of what you are advising.

> If you get some bubbles and typical sourdough odor, then
> proceed as follows---otherwise, dump it and if you want sourdough, begin
> from scratch.

This is Ligniere's familial sourdough--his grandmother got it
from her mother and gave it to Ligniere's mother. Failure is NOT
an option here.

> Basically, yeast, whether sourdough type or not, can survive
> drying (otherwise, of course, you couldn't buy it in envelopes).  The real
> question is whether it dried before it used up all of its food and
> died.

Aha! I wouldn't expect so--but we shall find out.

> This is why I suggested the test.  To store it, you will need a
> container that has a strong closure---I like the the wire, snap-top glass
> jars, but I suppose a Mason jar with a good, tight-f-tting lid would work.

What about a plastic container? Does it have to be glass?

> However you do it, what you end up with will probably be some combination
> of what Ligniere gave you and the "resident" yeast of your house/local
> area.

Of course; I mean, I understand that that's how it works.

>   So, don't expect San Francisco (or better yet, Seattle)-type
> sourdough.  It will, however, still be good.

Mais oui!

Thank you very much.

Karen

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A cartoon in today's USA Today suggested that some of things that people in
this country are doing to express their discontent with the French position
on Iraq (dumping wine, changing the name of "french fries') are in
themselves terribly "French" things to be doing.

I suppose it would take about four decades to explain this to Dubya.

cwv

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:32:54 -0500
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Subject: another thing...
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In WWII, General Douglas MacArthur was given the nickname "Dugout
Doug."  Whether rightly deserved or not, it had sort of a ring to it.  Now
we have Dick "Undisclosed Location" Cheney.  Somehow, it doesn't seem to be
in the same ballpark.

cwv

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At 10:32 PM 2/28/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>What about a plastic container? Does it have to be glass?

I would go with glass.  I suspect that it would eventually eat the
plastic---and even before it escaped and took over your refrigerator, it
would begin to taste "peculiarly."

cwv

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 22:37:10 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 10:21:37 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-02-28 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> > And now for the question: how many people think that asking for
>> > spinach and black olives in a pizza is strange?
>>
>> I think it's strange only because the olives are black. Everyone
>> knows that green olives are best on pizza.

> Strangely enough, that's precisely what they all chorused.

I sincerely doubt it.

> I have heard that chorusing is a strangely satisfying activity ...

Uh-huh.

I have heard that eating pizza is a strangely satisfying activity ...

Karen

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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Friday, February 28, 2003, 10:36:26 PM, clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> At 10:32 PM 2/28/2003 -0600, karen wrote:

>>What about a plastic container? Does it have to be glass?

> I would go with glass.  I suspect that it would eventually eat the
> plastic---and even before it escaped and took over your refrigerator, it
> would begin to taste "peculiarly."

EAT THE PLASTIC???????

I'll see if I have a jar.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 23:02:52 2003
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"Star Witness on Iraq Said Weapons Were Destroyed"
<http://www.fair.org/press-releases/kamel.html>

Pete

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Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:00:16 -0600
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02003-02-28 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Friday, February 28, 2003, 10:21:37 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > 02003-02-28 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>
> >> > And now for the question: how many people think that asking for
> >> > spinach and black olives in a pizza is strange?
> >>
> >> I think it's strange only because the olives are black. Everyone
> >> knows that green olives are best on pizza.
>
> > Strangely enough, that's precisely what they all chorused.
>
> I sincerely doubt it.

Why? You just said everyone knows. They knew it--they are vast
reliable repositories of down-home "everyone knows" knowledge.

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
References: <F41I4TY7zD5J47Okszb00015bcc@hotmail.com>           
            <12117150833.20030228181304@WordWrite.com>           
            <013401c2dfa8$31945660$4d0332d1@0018079268> 
            <67131160428.20030228220631@WordWrite.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:14:31 -0600
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>
> >>
> >> > Doris has got the pimp juice!
> >>
> >> She had it then--but she's over 50 now!!!
> >>
> >> Karen
>
> > What?  You think it just drains away???

Okay, I'll admit that changes do occur.  And
to prove it I will post a picture taken of me in
the water just one month ago.  I am on the right.
My long-time friend that I mentioned is on my
left.  We are just leaving on our rafts, taking
off for Maui, Molokai, or wherever the tide
takes us.  It was a great day.  We didn't
return for hours.

http://incolor.inebraska.com/dmarkld

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Fri Feb 28 23:30:28 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Joke
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 23:30:18 -0600
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A middle-aged woman had a heart attack and was taken to the
hospital.  While on the operating table, she had a near death 
experience.  Seeing God, she asked, "Is my time up?"

God said, "No, you have another 43 years, two months and eight
days to live." 

Upon recovery, the woman decided to stay in the hospital
and have a facelift, liposuction and tummy tuck.Since she
had so much more time to live, she figured she might as
well look even nicer. 

After her last operation, she was released from the hospital.
While crossing the street on her way home, she was 
killed by an ambulance.

Arriving in front of God, she demanded, "I thought you 
said I had another 40 years? Why didn't you pull me 
out of the path of that ambulance?"

God replied, "Girl, I didn't recognize you."


- D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 03:29:12 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 01:26:54 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: ::sigh::
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The scene: Wicked City, a goth/fetish nightclub in SF. I'm doing a
spanking workshop before the evening gets fully rolling. We're done
with the talking part, I've got Lynn bent over a spanking horse, I've
proceeded past the warmup and into the serious stuff. Two men come
over and sit on a couch about four feet from her head, and proceed to
have a loud and animated conversation. (This is just about the worst
dungeon etiquette imaginable.) Lynn, being Lynn, says politely, "Oh,
I'm sorry, am I interrupting your conversation?" They look up, say
brightly "Oh, no, we're fine, thanks," and resume their discussion.

(Yes, I went over there and explained to them that it's a good idea
to be quiet while in the proximity of a scene in progress -- which
they would have known had they bothered to read any of the large and
prominently displayed signs.)

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 03:29:59 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 01:27:41 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>  >From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>I like tights with my skirts, but it's hard to find the good sturdy
>>Danskin ones. I tend to wear leggings a lot.
>
>DKNY or Hue.

Hue doesn't come in Janet sizes. Haven't tried DKNY, but thanks for
the tip -- I'll look for some.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 03:31:38 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 01:29:15 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>  I like tights with my skirts, but it's hard to find the good sturdy
>>  Danskin ones. I tend to wear leggings a lot.
>
>How are such things different from panyhose?

They last a year or two without tearing or running, and can be
machine washed with the rest of your clothes.

>  > If I want to wear a
>>  skirt, I wear one long enough that I can wear boots with it and not
>>  worry about stockings at all.
>
>I don't have any boots.  I used to.  Wonder what happened to them.
>Wonder if I have them stuck away somewhere.  I think not.

Most of my footwear is boots. I have a pair of loafers, a pair of
sneakers, a pair of sandals, and a couple of pairs of pumps that I
never wear -- everything else is boots, cowboy boots and riding boots
and high-heeled boots and Doc Martens. I like the way one swaggers in
boots.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 03:33:43 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 01:31:26 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>On Fri, 28 Feb 2003, Karen Kay wrote:
>
>>'hangers'???? Wooee, we live in different worlds.
>
>You do not keep your dresses on hangers?

My best dresses are mostly knits (for traveling), so hanging them
stretches them out -- I store them folded like sweaters. But mostly,
if I'm wearing non-pants clothes, I wear a skirt with a tunic or
sweater.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 03:34:25 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 01:32:07 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: red-green-yellow
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>Friday, February 28, 2003, 9:59:22 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>>  By the way it's my duty to inform everybody that one of the
>>  truly best stuffed / deep dish pizzas in Chicago is made two
>>  steps from here.
>
>I'm sure that Uno's is not the best. But it's what they sell
>here, and it's cheaper than Domino's.

They keep taking the shroom pizza off their menu :(

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 04:53:34 2003
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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: red-green-yellow
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References: <5.1.0.14.0.20030228175256.00a048d0@pop3.norton.antivirus>
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-02-28 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
= > I'm having a Chicago Moment:  they sell Uno's pizzas at one of
= > the grocery stores I frequent. I bought one, and sauteed some
= > leeks, mushrooms, red pepper, and garlice and put it on top. Yum.
=
= By the way it's my duty to inform everybody that one of the
= truly best stuffed / deep dish pizzas in Chicago is made two
= steps from here. People just don't know it. Maybe I will order
= one today--I haven't had one for months. Though I will put
= sauteed nothing on the pizza. And now for the question: how
= many people think that asking for spinach and black olives
= in a pizza is strange? I can't for the life of me see why
= that's "strange" but when I suggested it everybody else
= called me a damn weirdo and got mushrooms instead. Those
= mushrooms are lame, I have known that for years ...

Next time I'm in Chicago, we're going out for pizza.  I think
spinach and black olives sounds delicious.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 05:40:51 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 06:35:49 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Survivor
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>I have nothing to say about Survivor.  Maybe I was discombobulated by
>watching it on the wrong night or something, but it struck me as very
>ho-hum.     -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

I watched it at the appropriate time and still found it ho-hum.   And a
little annoying.  The men lusting after the women is getting old.   The
three younger women going off to bathe alone because the older women with
less perfect bodies would envy them was stupid.  Not only that, those three
young bodies were getting awfully scrawny and unattractive.  Even the guys
seem to think Heather has, in a week of island time, fallen from a nine to
a six.


    --bonniev

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Subject: Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
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> > > Doris has got the pimp juice!
> >
> > She had it then--but she's over 50 now!!!
> > Karen
>
>What?  You think it just drains away??
>                - D. M.

Dries up and shrivels away.   Takes on wrinkles and looks ugly.  Gets thick
and distorted.  Heads south.  Etc.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 05:57:07 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Sourdough Starter Q
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>EAT THE PLASTIC???????
>
>I'll see if I have a jar.
>Karen

Yes, it will definitely eat the plastic.  You shouldn't even use a plastic
spoon or bowl when working with the starter.   And I would prepare myself
for failure.   Sourdough starter is not supposed to be dry lumps.

I mildly resent the fact that Clyde is considered the resident sourdough
starter expert when it was me who first made my own sourdough starter, then
got a cup of Klondike sourdough starter from a friend, then used and kept
alive that sourdough starter for some 15 years, and then taught Clyde how
to make and knead dough.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 07:08:31 2003
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Message-ID: <3E60AFE3.EDD876D5@valstar.net>
Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 08:04:35 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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>From the folks at Popcap:

> 1. EAT YOUR WORDS! BOOKWORM DELUXE LAUNCHES!
>
> It's been awhile... but at last wordaholics can get their fill of
> letter-linking action with the deluxe downloadable version of Bookworm!
> It's packed with more features than we can even describe here... like
> the ability to make words up to 12 letters, onscreen definitions of
> obscure phrases, local and internet high scores, brand new Action mode,
> special new Sapphire and Diamond bonus tiles, exciting new music from
> Skaven, the composer behind Bejeweled and many other PopCap games...
> and much, oh so much more!
>
> Go grab it now at:
>
> http://www.popcap.com/bookworm
>
---alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 07:22:39 2003
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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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Questions:

1.  Has anyone tried it yet?
2.  How much does it cost after
     your free trial?

             - D. M.








> >From the folks at Popcap:
>
> > 1. EAT YOUR WORDS! BOOKWORM DELUXE LAUNCHES!
> >
> > It's been awhile... but at last wordaholics can get their fill of
> > letter-linking action with the deluxe downloadable version of
Bookworm!
> > It's packed with more features than we can even describe here...
like
> > the ability to make words up to 12 letters, onscreen definitions of
> > obscure phrases, local and internet high scores, brand new Action
mode,
> > special new Sapphire and Diamond bonus tiles, exciting new music
from
> > Skaven, the composer behind Bejeweled and many other PopCap games...
> > and much, oh so much more!
> >
> > Go grab it now at:
> >
> > http://www.popcap.com/bookworm
> >
> ---alyce
>

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 07:25:24 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 07:21:20 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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            <3E600510.9785387A@maynor.net> <3E601D13.837D7B2B@valstar.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:

>  And now for the question: how
> many people think that asking for spinach and black olives
> in a pizza is strange?

Not strange.  But then it's one of life's <givens> that people's pizza
tastes vary.  I can't imagine, e.g., why people want to mess up good
pizza by putting meat substances on them (except pepperoni, as we've
discussed before).  And I much prefer the old-fashioned thin crust to
those thick, goupy pizzas.

Speaking of Chicago pizzas in Texas, isn't it somewhere in that
direction -- maybe farther west -- Arizona is ringing a bell, that the
men are eating the Chicago pizza and the host worries that his wife had
it delivered from Chicago, but she didn't -- she bought it at the
grocery store.  I think I saw that while watching our last basketball
game on tv.  Maybe I'll see it again when watching this afternoon's game
and can confirm the details.  It's the same tv source, a source I don't
really understand since it hops around among various channels, which is
why I'm using the word "source."  Jefferson Pilot.  It's also where the
man throws the dart over his shoulder and decides to pack a sweater
since the dart hits Greenland.  He has financial freedom.  Jefferson
Pilot, which I've finally quit calling Jefferson Airplane, is where our
sports events of lesser importance seem to end up -- as in it's some
kind of not-very-important tv <source>.  And I still don't understand
why it sometimes gets beamed in via the dish on channels like Fox Sports
South and sometimes via the small antenna on the local (Columbus) CBS
and sometimes elsewhere.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 07:28:56 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 07:24:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> It's the French influence, no doubt about it.

He also had pretty eyes.  I noticed them when I went up afterwards to
tell him I'd enjoyed his talk.  I wish I'd gotten to go to his earlier
talk in French.  I wouldn't have followed it as easily, of course, but I
would have enjoyed hearing the right language coming from his sexy
mouth.  I didn't know about the earlier talk until one of my lunch
friends mentioned that he had gone to it, which reminded me to go to the
afternoon talk that I'd seen mentioned in the student newspaper.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 07:30:27 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 07:26:21 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
> > > Doris has got the pimp juice!
> >
> > She had it then--but she's over 50 now!!!
> >
> > Karen
>
> What?  You think it just drains away???

More likely gets used up.  But that raises the question of whether one
can conserve it -- whether using less of it early means more of it is
still around later.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 07:31:03 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
> >>  I like tights with my skirts, but it's hard to find the good sturdy
> >>  Danskin ones. I tend to wear leggings a lot.
> >
> >How are such things different from panyhose?
>
> They last a year or two without tearing or running, and can be
> machine washed with the rest of your clothes.

But I meant how do they feel different.  I don't like the feel of
pantyhose.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 07:32:15 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
> But mostly,
> if I'm wearing non-pants clothes, I wear a skirt with a tunic or
> sweater.

When I say I like wearing dresses, I'm including skirts in that
category.  I have almost no dresses but wear skirts with various kinds
of tops pretty often.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 07:38:48 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> I watched it at the appropriate time and still found it ho-hum.   And a
> little annoying.  The men lusting after the women is getting old.

Yes!  I found it downright offensive -- not in the sense that it was
<inappropriate> for tv, not in the sense that it was <unPC>, just stupid
and not something I cared to be watching.  I seriously considered
turning off the tv and saying goodbye to Survivor after a few minutes of
listening to their talk but then decided that that would be a rash
decision, that surely it would get better.

> The
> three younger women going off to bathe alone because the older women with
> less perfect bodies would envy them was stupid.

I agree, though I found that kind of funny because it was so silly.

Anyway, if I want to watch a show that's all about bodies and sex, I
would choose one that didn't involve dirty, stringy-haired people
sloshing around with the snakes and spiders in an Amazon bog.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 08:10:28 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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At 07:22 AM 3/1/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Questions:
>
>1.  Has anyone tried it yet?
>2.  How much does it cost after
>      your free trial?

No.  From the description and the examples on the PopCap site, it looks
like they gimmicked it up considerably.  Whether this adds anything (other
than perhaps achieving scores in the upper single exponents) I wonder.  I
think that you have to download it before they tell you the price.

Incidentally, I've been noticing that they have changed the dictionary on
the old version---a lot of words generally considered to be obscenities or
ethnic slurs have disappeared.  Most of the Brit slang seems to have
survived; I haven't noted any surprising additions yet.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 08:16:44 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 08:12:35 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: interesting if true--newsweek story
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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> "Star Witness on Iraq Said Weapons Were Destroyed"
> <http://www.fair.org/press-releases/kamel.html>

|Unfortunately, Newsweek chose a curious way to handle its scoop: The
magazine placed |the story in the miscellaneous
|"Periscope" section with a generic headline, "The Defector's Secrets."

It was fairly prominently displayed, imho -- covering a whole page,
iirc, and with a largish picture of the man.  It was one of the first
things I read in that issue of Newsweek.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 08:24:09 2003
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            <5.1.0.14.0.20030301090101.00b445b8@mail.panax.com>
Subject: Re:      Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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>
> Incidentally, I've been noticing that they have changed the dictionary
on
> the old version---a lot of words generally considered to be
obscenities or
> ethnic slurs have disappeared.  Most of the Brit slang seems to have
> survived; I haven't noted any surprising additions yet.
>
> cwv

I'm glad you mentioned it.  I was waiting to
see if anyone else had noticed it.

                 - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 08:48:29 2003
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 08:44:24 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 5:35:49 AM, bonniev wrote:
> The men lusting after the women is getting old.

But such Boy Behavior.

> The three younger women going off to bathe alone because the
> older women with less perfect bodies would envy them was
> stupid.

I think I wasn't paying attention during this part. I heard one
of them saying something like 'the older women would be
uncomfortable for some reason', which cracked me up. And then
Christie (I don't know how she spells it--the deaf girl) refusing
to bathe with others.

> Not only that, those three young bodies were getting awfully
> scrawny and unattractive. Even the guys seem to think Heather
> has, in a week of island time, fallen from a nine to a six.

One guy.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 08:54:16 2003
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 08:50:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Sourdough Starter Q
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            <5.1.0.14.0.20030228230425.00b77308@mail.panax.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 5:52:03 AM, bonniev wrote:
> Yes, it will definitely eat the plastic.  You shouldn't even use a plastic
> spoon or bowl when working with the starter.

I'll probably use a stoneware bowl and a wooden spoon; that's
what I usually do.

> And I would prepare myself
> for failure.   Sourdough starter is not supposed to be dry lumps.

If I fail, I'll have to lie about it.

> I mildly resent the fact that Clyde is considered the resident sourdough
> starter expert when it was me who first made my own sourdough starter, then
> got a cup of Klondike sourdough starter from a friend, then used and kept
> alive that sourdough starter for some 15 years, and then taught Clyde how
> to make and knead dough.

Well, now this sounds vaguely familiar... I wouldn't bother
resenting the fact that my memory is a sieve. I won't remember
anyway.

Karen

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Subject: Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
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On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Doris Markland wrote:
> > > > Doris has got the pimp juice!
> > >
> > > She had it then--but she's over 50 now!!!
> > >
> > > Karen
> >
> > What?  You think it just drains away???
>
> More likely gets used up.  But that raises the question of whether one
> can conserve it -- whether using less of it early means more of it is
> still around later.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Not at all - think of that sourdough starter! It needs to be used,
stirred, and fed to grow and stay strong. I'll bet Doris has still got
hers!

clo

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 09:04:13 2003
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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Popcap games -
I have been a popcap addict for a while, and have just finally broken its
spell by substituting poetry readings and Wordslist.

The games are small, simple, and a great time-eater.
Bookworm is basically scrabble with one player; but the dictionary is very
limited, so you only get to make common words.

If you've never seen popcap games, you may find it interesting. I can see
it being a fun reward game for getting work done in an upper elementary
classroom.

clo

On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Doris Markland wrote:

> Questions:
>
> 1.  Has anyone tried it yet?
> 2.  How much does it cost after
>      your free trial?
>
>              - D. M.
>
> > >From the folks at Popcap:
> >
> > > 1. EAT YOUR WORDS! BOOKWORM DELUXE LAUNCHES!
> > >
> > > It's been awhile... but at last wordaholics can get their fill of
> > > letter-linking action with the deluxe downloadable version of
> Bookworm!
> > > It's packed with more features than we can even describe here...
> like
> > > the ability to make words up to 12 letters, onscreen definitions of
> > > obscure phrases, local and internet high scores, brand new Action
> mode,
> > > special new Sapphire and Diamond bonus tiles, exciting new music
> from
> > > Skaven, the composer behind Bejeweled and many other PopCap games...
> > > and much, oh so much more!
> > >
> > > Go grab it now at:
> > >
> > > http://www.popcap.com/bookworm
> > >
> > ---alyce
> >

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 09:06:32 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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In reading about BC's being called for jury duty, I started wondering
whether a current Pres could be called.  I assume yes since a Pres is
normally a registered voter.  But I bet he'd get excused from duty.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:

> Bookworm is basically scrabble with one player; but the dictionary is very
> limited, so you only get to make common words.

In my experience the Bookworm dictionary is far, far less limited than
the Scrabble dictionary, except that two-letter words aren't allowed in
BW.  And neither are long words.  I remember being frustrated when BW
told me that whatever word I'd just played had too many letters -- that
the max was (I've forgotten how many letters).

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 08:50 AM 3/1/2003 -0500, clo wrote:
>Popcap games -
>I have been a popcap addict for a while, and have just finally broken its
>spell by substituting poetry readings and Wordslist.

Several here have been playing Bookworm for some time now.  I think that
Bookrat still has the high score for words-l.

cwv

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:06:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:04:27 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> In my experience the Bookworm dictionary is far, far less limited than
> the Scrabble dictionary, except that two-letter words aren't allowed in
> BW.  And neither are long words.  I remember being frustrated when BW
> told me that whatever word I'd just played had too many letters -- that
> the max was (I've forgotten how many letters).

9

Carolyn, Bookworm was a list addiction for a while. I forget what
the list record is--over a million points, I think. We are
definitely <players>.

Karen

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:13:20 -0600
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> On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> > Doris Markland wrote:
> > > > > Doris has got the pimp juice!
> > > >
> > > > She had it then--but she's over 50 now!!!
> > > >
> > > > Karen
> > >
> > > What?  You think it just drains away???
> >
> > More likely gets used up.  But that raises the question of whether
one
> > can conserve it -- whether using less of it early means more of it
is
> > still around later.
> >
> > --
> >  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
> Not at all - think of that sourdough starter! It needs to be used,
> stirred, and fed to grow and stay strong. I'll bet Doris has still got
> hers!
>
> clo

And starters were given out for each of my kids,
my grandkids, my greatgrandkids.  Let's call
it sweetdough, though.

                                 - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 09:18:06 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 09:17:52 -0600
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> Popcap games -
> I have been a popcap addict for a while, and have just finally broken
its
> spell by substituting poetry readings and Wordslist.
>
> The games are small, simple, and a great time-eater.
> Bookworm is basically scrabble with one player; but the dictionary is
very
> limited, so you only get to make common words.
>
> If you've never seen popcap games, you may find it interesting. I can
see
> it being a fun reward game for getting work done in an upper
elementary
> classroom.
>
> clo

I play the free version, and it certainly is
a time consumer.  Good though for when
I have time to kill.

The deluxe version looks somehow
flashy and corny.  Don't think I want to
pay money for it.

                           - D. M.

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
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At 09:06 AM 3/1/2003 -0600, karen wrote:
>Carolyn, Bookworm was a list addiction for a while. I forget what
>the list record is--over a million points, I think. We are
>definitely <players>.

Last I saw, he was at 2.5 million and change.

cwv

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clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:
> Bookworm is basically scrabble with one player; but the dictionary is very
> limited, so you only get to make common words.

Huh? Bookworm is like Boggle, not Scrabble. And the dictionary, even as
revised, has many uncommon words, words I never heard of and would never
have thought of, except that I just tried different things and they were
accepted. Are we speaking of the same game?

alyce

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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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At 09:17 AM 3/1/2003 -0600, d.m. wrote:
>The deluxe version looks somehow
>flashy and corny.  Don't think I want to
>pay money for it.

It takes a while to download, I guess.  Like you, I'm not sure it's worth
the effort (or money).  It would be nice to have a larger dictionary and
the ability to construct longer words (8 letters is the limit now, I
believe) but diamond and sapphire tiles???

cwv

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"clyde w. voigtlander" wrote:
> >
> Last I saw, he was at 2.5 million and change.

There is a bookseller at about the same place. I kept track for awhile
of which was higher, but I think they are about tied.

alyce

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clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:

>
> Not at all - think of that sourdough starter! It needs to be used,
> stirred, and fed to grow and stay strong. I'll bet Doris has still got
> hers!

One person who really would know is GENE.

--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 09:59:29 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Was it worth it, Steph??
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>Doris Markland wrote:
>>  > > Doris has got the pimp juice!
>>  >
>>  > She had it then--but she's over 50 now!!!
>>  >
>>  > Karen
>>
>>  What?  You think it just drains away???
>
>More likely gets used up.  But that raises the question of whether one
>can conserve it -- whether using less of it early means more of it is
>still around later.

Not sure about "pimp juice," but there are at least a couple of
belief systems (notably Healing Tao) in which men are supposed to
conserve their, um, other juices in order to maintain youth and
virility.

Janet

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 09:59:59 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>>  >>  I like tights with my skirts, but it's hard to find the good sturdy
>>  >>  Danskin ones. I tend to wear leggings a lot.
>>  >
>>  >How are such things different from panyhose?
>>
>>  They last a year or two without tearing or running, and can be
>>  machine washed with the rest of your clothes.
>
>But I meant how do they feel different.  I don't like the feel of
>pantyhose.

Less, I don't know the word, slooshy. More like leggings.

Janet

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Carolyn, Bookworm was a list addiction for a while. I forget what
> the list record is--over a million points, I think. We are
> definitely <players>.

Boo has gotten well over two million, hasn't he?  It's not hard to hit
the one million mark if you leave the game running all day and go back
to it off and on.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 2:35:09 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Boo has gotten well over two million, hasn't he?

If I remembered, I would have said.

> It's not hard to hit the one million mark if you leave the game
> running all day and go back to it off and on.

You keep saying this, but I haven't found this to be true at all.
I think I've only gotten over 500,000 once. I think it may not be
hard *for you*, but that's hardly the same thing.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 14:39:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> Not sure about "pimp juice," but there are at least a couple of
> belief systems (notably Healing Tao) in which men are supposed to
> conserve their, um, other juices in order to maintain youth and
> virility.

And to keep from shortening their lives.

"We are tapers too and at our own cost die." -- JD, "The Canonization"

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Boo has gotten well over two million, hasn't he?
>
> If I remembered, I would have said.

You aren't the only Wordsler who might know.  (I saw Clyde's posting
after writing the above.)

> > It's not hard to hit the one million mark if you leave the game
> > running all day and go back to it off and on.
>
> You keep saying this, but I haven't found this to be true at all.
> I think I've only gotten over 500,000 once. I think it may not be
> hard *for you*, but that's hardly the same thing.

I don't consider myself <odd>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 14:47:02 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 2:42:18 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > Boo has gotten well over two million, hasn't he?
>>
>> If I remembered, I would have said.

> You aren't the only Wordsler who might know.  (I saw Clyde's posting
> after writing the above.)

>> > It's not hard to hit the one million mark if you leave the game
>> > running all day and go back to it off and on.
>>
>> You keep saying this, but I haven't found this to be true at all.
>> I think I've only gotten over 500,000 once. I think it may not be
>> hard *for you*, but that's hardly the same thing.

> I don't consider myself <odd>.

I do.

Karen

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Karen Kay wrote:
> You keep saying this, but I haven't found this to be true at all.
> I think I've only gotten over 500,000 once.

I am about in the same boat, ET. I just am no good at it, though I am a
big-time winner at both Scrabble and Boggle.

alyce

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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 3:00:00 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> You keep saying this, but I haven't found this to be true at all.
>> I think I've only gotten over 500,000 once.

> I am about in the same boat, ET.

:)

> I just am no good at it, though I am a
> big-time winner at both Scrabble and Boggle.

I don't know that I've ever played Boggle.

ET

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 15:13:47 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> > Not only that, those three young bodies were getting awfully
> > scrawny and unattractive. Even the guys seem to think Heather
> > has, in a week of island time, fallen from a nine to a six.
>
>One guy.

It's Heidi. I think they were saying that she was looking grimy, not too
skinny.

Marie

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 15:12:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 3:09:38 PM, Marie Ascher wrote:
> It's Heidi. I think they were saying that she was looking grimy, not too
> skinny.

I found it interesting that he thought that she went from a 9 to
a 6, and so he had a better shot with her. What does he think he
went to?!

Karen

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>From: Tushar Samant <scribble@POBOX.COM>
>sauteed nothing on the pizza. And now for the question: how
>many people think that asking for spinach and black olives
>in a pizza is strange?

Sounds good to me.

Marie

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>But I meant how do they feel different.  I don't like the feel of
>>pantyhose.
>
>Less, I don't know the word, slooshy. More like leggings.

Less itchy, less annoying, less restraining, less fragile. I don't like
wearing pantyhose (or "stockings" or "nylons" -- I don't think I wear
official pantyhose, and don't tend to use that word) much either. I haven't
worn anything but tights this winter, although I do when I need to dress
more formally. I wear a dress or skirt probably 3 out of 5 days of the week.
More often in the summer.

Marie

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On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>
> > Carolyn, Bookworm was a list addiction for a while. I forget what
> > the list record is--over a million points, I think. We are
> > definitely <players>.
>

Wow, it's obvious to me Paul did not prepare me for the mental power on
this list!

clo

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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 4:09:24 PM, clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:
> Wow, it's obvious to me Paul did not prepare me for the mental power on
> this list!

The fact that he fits in here should have been a clue.:)

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 16:54:56 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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We just lost to one of the bottom teams in the whole conference -- a
team we had beaten by something like thirty points a few weeks ago.
What a bummer.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> big-time winner at both Scrabble and Boggle.

Why do I not know Boggle?  I'd never heard of it until somebody
mentioned it here.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 16:58:37 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 4:55:57 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> alyce cresap wrote:

>> big-time winner at both Scrabble and Boggle.

> Why do I not know Boggle?  I'd never heard of it until somebody
> mentioned it here.

I think of it as after my time.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 17:06:33 2003
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:

> Less itchy, less annoying, less restraining, less fragile. I don't like
> wearing pantyhose (or "stockings" or "nylons" -- I don't think I wear
> official pantyhose, and don't tend to use that word) much either.

What are official pantyhose?  (I've never used the word "stockings" or
"nylons," but I've heard them.)

>  I wear a dress or skirt probably 3 out of 5 days of the week.

That's about my winter schedule also.

> More often in the summer.

Me too.  Probably about 4.5 out of 5 days.  (No, I don't change clothes
in mid day to make that half day.  But I probably wear non skirts --
capri pants or whatever they are -- about once every couple of weeks.)

I'm talking about work days now, as I think Marie is also.  I don't wear
skirts on weekends.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Saturday, March 1, 2003, 4:55:57 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> > alyce cresap wrote:
>
> >> big-time winner at both Scrabble and Boggle.
>
> > Why do I not know Boggle?  I'd never heard of it until somebody
> > mentioned it here.
>
> I think of it as after my time.

But I don't think of Alyce as after your time.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:07:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 5:04:03 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>> Saturday, March 1, 2003, 4:55:57 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>
>> > alyce cresap wrote:
>>
>> >> big-time winner at both Scrabble and Boggle.
>>
>> > Why do I not know Boggle?  I'd never heard of it until somebody
>> > mentioned it here.
>>
>> I think of it as after my time.

> But I don't think of Alyce as after your time.

Nor do I. But nonetheless, Boggle was invented in 1972, after my
major board-game-playing years.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 15:09:07 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

>Several here have been playing Bookworm for some time now.  I think that
>Bookrat still has the high score for words-l.
>
>cwv

I was just cleaning up my desk last night, and I threw out the Post-It
notes that I had recorded my scores on.  I only remember that one of the
games was somewhere over 2,480,000 points.

I haven't played a to-the-end game in several weeks.  When I do start up a
game, it's usually just for mindless entertainment, and since the bonus
words are easier to get during the beginning stages of the game, the
entertainment value is higher.  Plus, I'm wary of leaving the game on in
the background because sometimes it starts sucking up all the CPU cycles on
my computer, and I would hate to be in the position of being near to
breaking a record and then having to kill the game in order to get actual
work done.

Ken Miller
Assistant Drone
Johnson Institute for the Study of Harmless Drudgery

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:11:43 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 5:09:07 PM, Bookrat wrote:
> Plus, I'm wary of leaving the game on in the background because
> sometimes it starts sucking up all the CPU cycles on my
> computer, and I would hate to be in the position of being near
> to breaking a record and then having to kill the game in order
> to get actual work done.

BTDT.

Karen

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At 05:04 PM 3/1/2003 -0600, natalie wrote:
>Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > Saturday, March 1, 2003, 4:55:57 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> >
> > > alyce cresap wrote:
> >
> > >> big-time winner at both Scrabble and Boggle.
> >
> > > Why do I not know Boggle?  I'd never heard of it until somebody
> > > mentioned it here.
> >
> > I think of it as after my time.
>
>But I don't think of Alyce as after your time.

Alyce is timeless.

cwv

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:39:06 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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When do I plant elephant ears?  I guess that depends on where I live,
which means I guess I should research it on the web or in a garden book.

And what should I plant in some huge pots that I don't yet have that are
going to be a sort of wall in an ugly spot?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 17:46:03 2003
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:40:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 5:39:06 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> When do I plant elephant ears?  I guess that depends on where I live,
> which means I guess I should research it on the web or in a garden book.

If I plant some, will they grow into an elephant.

> And what should I plant in some huge pots that I don't yet have that are
> going to be a sort of wall in an ugly spot?

Bougainvillea.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:45:29 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: red-green-yellow
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02003-03-01 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
> > And now for the question: how
> > many people think that asking for spinach and black olives
> > in a pizza is strange?
>
> Not strange.  But then it's one of life's <givens> that people's pizza
> tastes vary.  I can't imagine, e.g., why people want to mess up good
> pizza by putting meat substances on them (except pepperoni, as we've
> discussed before).  And I much prefer the old-fashioned thin crust to
> those thick, goupy pizzas.

Two points, "Natalie":

#1: "People's pizza tastes vary"--to be sure this is a K-R-N-style
pillar-of-society truism, and to be sure, it's meaningless. It does
not explain the vaguest, most qualitative aspect of the incident,
viz. they all ganged up on me and called it weird.

#2: I don't appreciate your taking advantage of a pillar-of-society
truism to insinuate YOURSELF, a.k.a. Dr Maynor, into the ranks of
people with valid pizza tastes. If I recall right, you regularly
consume something known as a CHEESE PIZZA--a term which, if not
irreferential, refers at best to incorrect food ... please! Let
me finish. I am in no way opposed to people who prefer thin-crust
to goopy. But I feel cheated, even used, when someone eating a
CHEESE PIZZA joins them by means of a cunningly inserted line
item.

We all know people with trixieish tendencies who consume, say, plain
rice with a bit of soy sauce on it--and acting like nothing is wrong--
some even going so far as to say they had Chinese--a practice which
could precipitate an international incident. Voluntarily eating a
CHEESE PIZZA, I humbly submit, is essentially the same.

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:46:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Subject: Re: Elephant Ears
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Karen Kay wrote:

> If I plant some, will they grow into an elephant.

I don't think ears produce whole beasts.  But I'm getting confused about
the planting time.  They seem to be lumped with caladiums everywhere.
If they follow the same planting schedule, then it's May 1:

http://www.caladiumbulbs.com/images/pz5.gif

> > And what should I plant in some huge pots that I don't yet have that are
> > going to be a sort of wall in an ugly spot?
>
> Bougainvillea.

Thank you.  I will check this out.  I want whatever it is to grow tall.
I forgot to say that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 17:49:31 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Elephant Ears
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 5:46:09 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> They seem to be lumped with caladiums everywhere.

I thought they were caladiums.

> If they follow the same planting schedule, then it's May 1:

I didn't chase the URL, but this seems awfully late.

>> > And what should I plant in some huge pots that I don't yet have that are
>> > going to be a sort of wall in an ugly spot?
>>
>> Bougainvillea.

> Thank you.  I will check this out.  I want whatever it is to grow tall.
> I forgot to say that.

How tall?

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 17:56:08 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:51:56 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elephant Ears
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Got it:

**********
When night temperatures remain consistently above 55 degrees Fahrenheit,
 it is time to plant cannas, caladiums, elephant ears, dahlias and
ginger
 lilies. If you took my advice last month and potted your elephants ear
and caladiums bulbs (growing them indoors in a sunny, warm location) you
probably will have a fairly nice size plant to transplant out into the
garden when the temperature gets right, not to mention, you get the jump
on everyone else!
**********
from: http://msucares.com/newsletters/northmissgarden/02/0402.html

I need to pot some indoors in a sunny, warm location and then put them
outside to <get the jump>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > They seem to be lumped with caladiums everywhere.
>
> I thought they were caladiums.

They're obviously closely related.  But they seem to be sometimes listed
separately.  Here's the page I looked at that I found confusing:

http://www.caladiumbulbs.com/information.htm

> > If they follow the same planting schedule, then it's May 1:
>
> I didn't chase the URL, but this seems awfully late.

It showed a map, and almost all of Mississippi was in the May 1
shading.  About the bottom 1/5 of the state is in the April 1 area.

> > Thank you.  I will check this out.  I want whatever it is to grow tall.
> > I forgot to say that.
>
> How tall?

About Adam's size.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 17:59:26 -0600
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> viz. they all ganged up on me and called it weird.

Mutant perhaps?

> #2: I don't appreciate your taking advantage of a pillar-of-society
> truism to insinuate YOURSELF, a.k.a. Dr Maynor, into the ranks of
> people with valid pizza tastes. If I recall right, you regularly
> consume something known as a CHEESE PIZZA--a term which, if not

Well, I've never ordered a cheese pizza anywhere.  But I do like the
SmartOnes four-cheese pizza or some such name.

> We all know people with trixieish tendencies who consume, say, plain
> rice with a bit of soy sauce on it--and acting like nothing is wrong--

Barf.  Soy sauce has no place on rice.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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02003-03-01 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
> I have been a popcap addict for a while, and have just finally broken its
> spell by substituting poetry readings and Wordslist.

They don't like "rebounders" at poetry readings ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 19:09:06 2003
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Subject: Re:      Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:08:48 -0600
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> On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > > Carolyn, Bookworm was a list addiction for a while. I forget what
> > > the list record is--over a million points, I think. We are
> > > definitely <players>.
> >
>
> Wow, it's obvious to me Paul did not prepare me for the mental power
on
> this list!
>
> clo

I've made over a million but never
come close to the two mil mark.

                  - D. M.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-03-01 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> The scene: Wicked City, a goth/fetish nightclub in SF. I'm doing a
> spanking workshop before the evening gets fully rolling. We're done
> with the talking part, I've got Lynn bent over a spanking horse, I've
> proceeded past the warmup and into the serious stuff. Two men come
> over and sit on a couch about four feet from her head, and proceed to
> have a loud and animated conversation. (This is just about the worst
> dungeon etiquette imaginable.) Lynn, being Lynn, says politely, "Oh,
> I'm sorry, am I interrupting your conversation?" They look up, say
> brightly "Oh, no, we're fine, thanks," and resume their discussion.
>
> (Yes, I went over there and explained to them that it's a good idea
> to be quiet while in the proximity of a scene in progress -- which
> they would have known had they bothered to read any of the large and
> prominently displayed signs.)

HAR ... it's time to move on, this "dungeon" has become just another
way-wacky spot on the WILD SF BEAT. Maybe the Austin people have come
back to keep San Francisco weird ...

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Subject: Re:      Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:10:30 -0600
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> I was just cleaning up my desk last night, and I threw out the Post-It
> notes that I had recorded my scores on.  I only remember that one of
the
> games was somewhere over 2,480,000 points.
>
> I haven't played a to-the-end game in several weeks.  When I do start
up a
> game, it's usually just for mindless entertainment, and since the
bonus
> words are easier to get during the beginning stages of the game, the
> entertainment value is higher.  Plus, I'm wary of leaving the game on
in
> the background because sometimes it starts sucking up all the CPU
cycles on
> my computer, and I would hate to be in the position of being near to
> breaking a record and then having to kill the game in order to get
actual
> work done.
>
> Ken Miller

What he said.

   - D. M.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 19:16:11 2003
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:02:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 6:10:38 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>> > Thank you.  I will check this out.  I want whatever it is to grow tall.
>> > I forgot to say that.
>>
>> How tall?

> About Adam's size.

Does it have to be a perennial, or can it be an annual?

Karen

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From: "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@flex.com>
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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On 1 Mar 2003 at 14:42, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> I don't consider myself <odd>.

I sure do. And here's the evidence:

> Barf.  Soy sauce has no place on rice.

    mem

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 19:29:10 2003
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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 20:24:33 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:
>
> On 1 Mar 2003 at 14:42, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> > I don't consider myself <odd>.
>
> I sure do. And here's the evidence:
>
> > Barf.  Soy sauce has no place on rice.

Wow! Natalie, you _are_ a bit odd.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 19:34:19 2003
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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At 03:05 PM 3/1/2003 -1000, mem wrote:
>On 1 Mar 2003 at 14:42, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> > I don't consider myself <odd>.
>
>I sure do. And here's the evidence:
>
> > Barf.  Soy sauce has no place on rice.

indeed.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 19:34:20 2003
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At 07:08 PM 3/1/2003 -0600, you wrote:

>I've made over a million but never
>come close to the two mil mark.

My top 10 range from 950 K to 2.3 million and change, but I can't seem to
catch Bookrat.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 19:35:33 2003
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Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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At 08:24 PM 3/1/2003 -0500, alyce wrote:

>Wow! Natalie, you _are_ a bit odd.

Once again, you prove that you are the mistress of understatement.

cwv

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Turnaround
Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 19:46:29 -0600
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We invited our next door neighbors over tonight
for cocktails and talk.  Nice people.  Former
businessman, still sharp.  Staunch democrats,
both of them.  In fact our gettogethers in past
few years were sometimes difficult, but always
manageable, through the Clinton years, the
election, the Bush years.  Civil, all of us, no
matter where the conversation went.

But tonight they surprised us out of our socks.
No criticism of Bush (for the first time ever).
Quiet recounting of why we must go the way
we are going, the neighbor having a longer
memory than mine of events in the past
and his own theories about what will happen
if we don't make the move.

In other words, they favor the war and think
Bush is doing well.  They distrust the UN,
from things we've seen in the past.

We could not have been more surprised,
and we were amazed at his logic, which I
have not a long enough memory to recount
here.

So many angles on this thing.

Still don't know where I stand.  Can see
both sides, as always.

             - D. M.

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On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-01 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
> > I have been a popcap addict for a while, and have just finally broken its
> > spell by substituting poetry readings and Wordslist.
>
> They don't like "rebounders" at poetry readings ...
>

What's a rebounder?  clo

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 20:33:34 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > About Adam's size.
>
> Does it have to be a perennial, or can it be an annual?

What I'd really like is for it to be there year-round since it's to
serve as a shield.  But I haven't ruled out annuals.  I could plant
annuals of various kinds to do their things in their various seasons.
The growth itself doesn't have to be Adam's size.  The pot can count.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 20:35:10 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"Michael E. Macmillan" wrote:

> > I don't consider myself <odd>.
>
> I sure do. And here's the evidence:
>
> > Barf.  Soy sauce has no place on rice.

My Japanese friends told me that I seemed Japanese in many ways.
Perhaps this is one of them.  Putting soy sauce on rice is considered
<gauche> in Japan.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 8:33:34 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > About Adam's size.
>>
>> Does it have to be a perennial, or can it be an annual?

> What I'd really like is for it to be there year-round since it's to
> serve as a shield.  But I haven't ruled out annuals.  I could plant
> annuals of various kinds to do their things in their various seasons.
> The growth itself doesn't have to be Adam's size.  The pot can count.

Does Rose of Sharon grow there? I think they might be good for
that. They lose their leaves, but the branches create a screen.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 20:39:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:

> Still don't know where I stand.  Can see
> both sides, as always.

I often can't decide where I stand on something because I keep going
back and forth in my mind, seeing pros and cons of both sides.  But in
this case I have no doubt at all.  I think this country is on the verge
of disaster.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 20:43:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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********
Now is the time to prune summer flowering woody ornamentals such as
Abelia,
barberry, Buddleia, smokebush, Rose of Sharon, crape myrtle, oleander,
tea roses,
Clethra (summersweet), old fashion hydrangea (not oak leaf or big leaf
variety) and
*******
from: http://msucares.com/newsletters/centralmissgarden/03/1_2.html

That was my first google hit for rose of sharon and Mississippi.  It's
for central Mississippi, but I still think it's a good sign.  I'm
north-central.
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 20:46:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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*********
Do not prune
summer-flowering shrubs like buddleia (butterfly bush) and althea (Rose
of Sharon) this month or you will disturb growth and bloom of the plant.
*********
from: http://msucares.com/newsletters/northmissgarden/02/0502.html

That's for north Mississippi.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:02:15 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 8:54:24 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> I can see that we wiil be much beloved by all Kurds.

My brother in the National Guard is back in Michigan, and he said
that he's can't stand to watch the news any more. I think it's a
family trait.

Karen

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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:12:55 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> That would be fine, but were they in pots?

I've seen potted ones. Tall skinny ones.

Karen

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Does Rose of Sharon grow there? I think they might be good for
> that. They lose their leaves, but the branches create a screen.

I should check that out.  I don't really know.  Thanks for the tip.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 20:51:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 8:43:57 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Now is the time to prune summer flowering woody ornamentals such as
> Abelia,
> barberry, Buddleia, smokebush, Rose of Sharon, crape myrtle, oleander,
> tea roses,
> Clethra (summersweet), old fashion hydrangea (not oak leaf or big leaf
> variety) and

Crape myrtle or oleander would also work. I just remembered that
my RofS drop humongo blossoms--which I don't care about because
they are in the ground. Crape myrtles also shed, though.

Oleander here are dying off because of some disease that I
haven't paid a lot of attention to, so I wouldn't plant them.

What about juniper bushes? They don't flower and you can make
topiary!

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:01:56 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Crape myrtle or oleander would also work. I just remembered that
> my RofS drop humongo blossoms--which I don't care about because
> they are in the ground. Crape myrtles also shed, though.

The blossom-droppings wouldn't be a problem to me.  I prefer the idea of
Rose of Sharon to Crape myrtles, though, since I have crape myrtles
already and grow weary of the crape myrtles everywhere around town --
like up and down streets.  I think somebody decided that crape myrtles
should be the city theme.

> What about juniper bushes? They don't flower and you can make
> topiary!

That's a very good thought.  I went to the co-op briefly today to see
what was there, and I was looking at some junipers and wondering how big
they might get and whether they might do.  I like their sort of
blue-green color.  It would be good for the particular location.  I
hadn't thought about the topiary idea, but that might be fun too.  I
could make them into dogs and cats.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:54:24 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
  I think this country is on the verge
> of disaster.

Yes. I saw a thing on CNN tonight in which residents of all the
countries around Iraq were asked about the Bush plan to establish a
democracy in Iraq. They were unanimous in their feeling that it was
impossible to do this--that democracy has to come from within.

On a slightly different point--I learned today that in addition to the
$15 billion offered to Turkey, Bush has told the Turks that we will
disarm their mortal enemies the Kurds in the north of Iraq. This just
floored me. These poor Kurds are going to be sitting ducks, just a few
miles from the Turks who hate them. And these are the same Kurds that we
urged to rise up after Gulf War I to overturn Saddam, and then we did
not support them. How are we going to disarm them, I wonder? Kill them?
I can see that we wiil be much beloved by all Kurds.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:01:46 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> But I don't think of Alyce as after your time.

I am a woman of all seasons.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:05:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:01:56 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> The blossom-droppings wouldn't be a problem to me.  I prefer the idea of
> Rose of Sharon to Crape myrtles, though, since I have crape myrtles
> already and grow weary of the crape myrtles everywhere around town --
> like up and down streets.  I think somebody decided that crape myrtles
> should be the city theme.

Oh, ugh. I agree, RofS would be better. I have three, white,
pink, and purple.

>> What about juniper bushes? They don't flower and you can make
>> topiary!

> That's a very good thought.  I went to the co-op briefly today to see
> what was there, and I was looking at some junipers and wondering how big
> they might get and whether they might do.

I guess there must be different sizes, but I have seen them twice
as tall as Adam.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:06:58 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> My brother in the National Guard is back in Michigan, and he said
> that he's can't stand to watch the news any more. I think it's a
> family trait.

I have to watch it. I want to know all that I can. I just regret that
CNN does not show all of Ari Fleischer's briefings, but cut them off in
the middle. C-SPAN does show them in their entirety if COngress is not
in session, but usually that is only on Friday. An Ari briefing is a
wondrous thing to behold. It is amazing to watch a man deliberately lie,
and have the reporters laugh right in his face, yet he carries on.

alyce

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 22:08:41 -0500
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:01:56 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > The blossom-droppings wouldn't be a problem to me.  I prefer the idea of
> > Rose of Sharon

Will RoS grow in pots? Did I not understand that you want something for
pots? They need a lot of root room--they grow to be big trees.

alyce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Yes. I saw a thing on CNN tonight in which residents of all the
> countries around Iraq were asked about the Bush plan to establish a
> democracy in Iraq. They were unanimous in their feeling that it was
> impossible to do this--that democracy has to come from within.

A US military dictatorship in another country is hardly democracy.

> On a slightly different point--I learned today that in addition to the
> $15 billion offered to Turkey, Bush has told the Turks that we will
> disarm their mortal enemies the Kurds in the north of Iraq. This just
> floored me. These poor Kurds are going to be sitting ducks, just a few
> miles from the Turks who hate them. And these are the same Kurds that we
> urged to rise up after Gulf War I to overturn Saddam, and then we did
> not support them. How are we going to disarm them, I wonder? Kill them?
> I can see that we wiil be much beloved by all Kurds.

As well as by everybody else.  I have frequently had nits to pick with
US policies/actions/administrations, but I have never before felt the
way I do now -- have never felt this fearful about this country's
future.  Our goose is sliding rapidly into the oven, I fear.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:10:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:06:58 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> I have to watch it. I want to know all that I can.

I wish I could force myself to do that, but I can't bear it.

> I just regret that CNN does not show all of Ari Fleischer's
> briefings, but cut them off in the middle. C-SPAN does show
> them in their entirety if COngress is not in session, but
> usually that is only on Friday. An Ari briefing is a wondrous
> thing to behold. It is amazing to watch a man deliberately lie,
> and have the reporters laugh right in his face, yet he carries
> on.

He gives me the chills.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:12:55 -0600
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I guess there must be different sizes, but I have seen them twice
> as tall as Adam.

That would be fine, but were they in pots?  I plan to get large pots,
but perhaps not large enough to accommodate the roots of a double Adam.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:14:34 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Will RoS grow in pots? Did I not understand that you want something for
> pots? They need a lot of root room--they grow to be big trees.

This is a good question.  I want the maximum size that will be
accommodated, rootfully speaking, by a large pot.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:17:52 -0600
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:14:34 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> This is a good question.  I want the maximum size that will be
> accommodated, rootfully speaking, by a large pot.

I don't think there should be a problem, but you'll have to ask.

The problem with pots is that things freeze more easily.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:19:26 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > That would be fine, but were they in pots?
>
> I've seen potted ones. Tall skinny ones.

I would like them to be somewhat fat, though.  I should take a picture
of this ugly place to make this situation clearer.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:19:26 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > That would be fine, but were they in pots?
>>
>> I've seen potted ones. Tall skinny ones.

> I would like them to be somewhat fat, though.  I should take a picture
> of this ugly place to make this situation clearer.

I think you should take the picture to the nursery and ask them.

Karen

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At 09:12 PM 3/1/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Karen Kay wrote:
>
> > I guess there must be different sizes, but I have seen them twice
> > as tall as Adam.
>
>That would be fine, but were they in pots?  I plan to get large pots,
>but perhaps not large enough to accommodate the roots of a double Adam.

Junipers are evil and ugly.

Betty

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:25:48 -0600
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:28:29 PM, Betty wrote:
> Junipers are evil and ugly.

And they produce cedar pollen.:-/

Why do you think they are ugly?

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:29:15 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> The problem with pots is that things freeze more easily.

That is a good point.  I have pots outside with various little things in
them that have been quite happy even in this cold winter -- pansies,
ornamental cabbages, etc.  But they're little things.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 21:36:04 2003
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 21:31:45 -0600
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:29:15 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> That is a good point.  I have pots outside with various little things in
> them that have been quite happy even in this cold winter -- pansies,
> ornamental cabbages, etc.  But they're little things.

I have real cabbages out in front, and they survived the freeze.
I saw a lot of frozen pansies on my walk the other day, but they
were in the dirt.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 21:32:13 -0600
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > I would like them to be somewhat fat, though.  I should take a picture
> > of this ugly place to make this situation clearer.
>
> I think you should take the picture to the nursery and ask them.

My printer does a terrible job at printing pictures, but maybe that's a
possibility.  Also, some of the people at the co-op seem not very
knowledgeable.  The only other nursery is one that used to be ok but
that is now run by a couple of seeming idiots.  There's also Lowe's in
Columbus.

I will put all this on hold for another couple of weeks, though, since a
week from now I will be into my spring break travels -- checking out Bay
St. Louis.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 21:37:31 2003
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Betty wrote:
> > > I guess there must be different sizes, but I have seen them twice
> > > as tall as Adam.
> >
> >That would be fine, but were they in pots?  I plan to get large pots,
> >but perhaps not large enough to accommodate the roots of a double Adam.
>
> Junipers are evil and ugly.

Oh dear.  Why are they evil?  And are they uglier than this ugly space
I'm talking about?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> I have real cabbages out in front, and they survived the freeze.
> I saw a lot of frozen pansies on my walk the other day, but they
> were in the dirt.

My pansies have been fine, both those in the ground and those in pots.
Also those other little flowers -- why can't I remember their name?
Violas!  They also have managed the winter just fine, even though we've
gotten down into single digits at times.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 21:42:41 2003
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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:35:14 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> My pansies have been fine, both those in the ground and those in pots.
> Also those other little flowers -- why can't I remember their name?
> Violas!  They also have managed the winter just fine, even though we've
> gotten down into single digits at times.

Jeeze. It hasn't been that cold here, but there's been a lot more
damage.

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 21:50:52 2003
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At 09:25 PM 3/1/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:28:29 PM, Betty wrote:
> > Junipers are evil and ugly.
>
>And they produce cedar pollen.:-/
>
>Why do you think they are ugly?

They are ugly after have they have been pruned. Everyone seems to plant
them too close to the sidewalk and then they have to prune them.  Rats hide
in them, too.

Betty

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Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:51:04 PM, Betty wrote:
> They are ugly after have they have been pruned. Everyone seems to plant
> them too close to the sidewalk and then they have to prune them.  Rats hide
> in them, too.

Palm trees are worse than junipers for that. But yes, they are so
dense, they are attractive.

Karen

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Date: Sat, 01 Mar 2003 19:52:56 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: A Good Sign
In-Reply-To: <3E617B7E.51030CD0@maynor.net>
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At 09:33 PM 3/1/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Betty wrote:
> > > > I guess there must be different sizes, but I have seen them twice
> > > > as tall as Adam.
> > >
> > >That would be fine, but were they in pots?  I plan to get large pots,
> > >but perhaps not large enough to accommodate the roots of a double Adam.
> >
> > Junipers are evil and ugly.
>
>Oh dear.  Why are they evil?  And are they uglier than this ugly space
>I'm talking about?

They tear your arms up when you reach in to retrieve a badminton
birdie.  What ugly space are you talking about?  Cover it up with the ugly
couch.

Betty

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At 09:47 PM 3/1/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Saturday, March 1, 2003, 9:51:04 PM, Betty wrote:
> > They are ugly after have they have been pruned. Everyone seems to plant
> > them too close to the sidewalk and then they have to prune them.  Rats hide
> > in them, too.
>
>Palm trees are worse than junipers for that. But yes, they are so
>dense, they are attractive.

I have to look at ugly junipers across the street.  Dense but NOT attractive.

Betty

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Did you celebrate your birthday today or yesterday? Hope it was a good one.

Betty

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Clinton and rap
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In a message dated 02/28/2003 6:22:49 PM Central Standard Time,
natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<<
Remember how Too Long he spoke at -- which convention was it? -- I'm
blanking.  It as a good while before he became Pres.


>>

Was it the Democrats' Convention of 1988?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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At 10:56 PM 3/1/2003 -0500, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>Evelyn Duncan
>brandykitt@aol.com
>This account protected by an attack cabbit.

What is an attack cabbit?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 23:03:03 2003
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In a message dated 03/01/2003 9:59:28 PM Central Standard Time,
bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU writes:

<<
What is an attack cabbit?

>>

Ryo-Ohki, part cat and part rabbit.  Loves carrots and can convert
into a spaceship.   www.cabbit.com.

She first appears in episode 3 of Tenchi Muyo as a newborn
cabbit.  When the previous Ryo-Ohki was destroyed, she left an
egg from which this Ryo-Ohki was hatched.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sat Mar  1 23:13:54 2003
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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 23:03:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I taped this on TV tonight. What a well-designed movie this is!

Karen

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Date: Sat, 1 Mar 2003 23:36:32 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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02003-03-01 | "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@FLEX.COM> writes:
> On 1 Mar 2003 at 14:42, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> > I don't consider myself <odd>.
>
> I sure do. And here's the evidence:
>
> > Barf.  Soy sauce has no place on rice.

I don't want to be involved in this--but remember I was
talking about ONLY soy sauce on rice.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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02003-03-01 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
> On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > 02003-03-01 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
>
> > > I have been a popcap addict for a while, and have just finally broken its
> > > spell by substituting poetry readings and Wordslist.
> >
> > They don't like "rebounders" at poetry readings ...
>
> What's a rebounder?  clo

Somebody who has just broken up--damn, don't you watch any TV?

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In a message dated 3/1/2003 6:43:29 PM, dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM writes:

<< Still don't know where I stand.  Can see
both sides, as always.
 >>

There are no 2 sides IMO. You're either *for* or *against*; I'm AGAINST big
time!
Theo

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> This is a good question.  I want the maximum size that will be
> accommodated, rootfully speaking, by a large pot.
>
Can you grow hibiscus in MS?

alyce

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http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11904

Ashcroft is now offering up US Patriot Act II. This will further
infringe upon US citizens' privacy and civil liberties. If you care, you
can send free faxes to your senators and congressperson at the above
site. There is a pre-written letter, or you can write your own.

alyce

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Betty wrote:
> Rats hide
> in them, too.

Eek.  Maybe I'll do purple fountain grass instead.  But I think it's an
annual.  I'll know for sure pretty soon.  I've been watching the
dead-looking pfg in a yard around the circle from me.  It was beautiful
until really cold weather.  Now it's a mass of straw -- but would still
be a screen.  I'm watching to see whether it comes back to life this
spring.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty wrote:

> They tear your arms up when you reach in to retrieve a badminton
> birdie.  What ugly space are you talking about?  Cover it up with the ugly
> couch.

I won't be playing badminton in the vicinity.  If I move the ugly couch
out there, Spencer won't have it to lie on in this room.

I do need to take a picture of the ugly space to explain this situation
better.  Remember when I hoed down the rotting fence thing beside my
outside storage building (at the end of my driveway -- the building was
once a small garage)?  I wonder whether I have any old pictures showing
that rotting fence.  That could give you a before/after view.  Anyway,
that took away the privacy between the side of my house, including my
decklet and the windows in this room, and the back of my neighbors'
house.  That's where I've planted the pampas grass, which I hope will
grow rapidly soon.  But it won't cover the ugly corner, the place where
the new electric pole is, where my neighbors store a bunch of ugly junk
right beside my outside building.  I want something in that corner to
cover up their ugly junk.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Evelyn Duncan wrote:
> <<
> Remember how Too Long he spoke at -- which convention was it? -- I'm
> blanking.  It as a good while before he became Pres.
> >>
>
> Was it the Democrats' Convention of 1988?

That sounds about right.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty wrote:
>
> Did you celebrate your birthday today or yesterday? Hope it was a good one.

HAPPY BIRTHDAY!  Is it yesterday or today?  Iow, why the choice of
celebration dates?  I've heard that lots and lots of people have flocked
to NO for celebration this weekend, no doubt in honor of Richard's bday.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> Can you grow hibiscus in MS?

Will research it.
....
It can be a perennial if I move to the coast (but that's not where my
ugly place is):

*********
Garden centers have been loaded with an
assortment of perennial and tropical hibiscus
that can make our backyards resemble the
exotic look of the islands. The tropical hibiscus,
known botanically as Hibiscus rosa-sinensis, is
an evergreen shrub in warm climates. Our
coastal counties grow it as a perennial, but the
rest of us have to protect it in the winter.
*********
from: http://msucares.com/news/print/sgnews/sg01/sg010709.html

And

*********
Q Every winter when I bring in my hibiscus and weeping fig, they
drop leaves all over the place. Is there anything I can do to keep this
from happening?
*********
from: http://mississippigardener.com/

But I stumbled upon something that looks promising re fountain grass.
The question asker is in Jackson, of course, which is farther south.
But maybe it would apply here also:

*********
Q I planted several ornamental grasses last year and they have
looked wonderful – maiden grass, fountain grass, and muly grass are
my favorites. Do I need to cut the flower stalks off so they’ll bloom
again this year? Will the brown leaves turn green, or do new ones
grow? – Kay T. from Jackson

A You have added some of the most reliable grasses to your garden, and
they will only get more beautiful with time. Yes, you should cut the
stalks
down as they fade or flop over, but you also need to cut back the
grasses
*********
from: http://mississippigardener.com/


--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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On a related subject, there's an interesting editorial in today's NYT
contrasting Dubya and his father:

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/03/02/opinion/02DOWD.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Cabbits
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At 11:13 PM 3/1/2003 -0500, Evelyn Duncan wrote:
>In a message dated 03/01/2003 9:59:28 PM Central Standard Time,
>bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU writes:
>
><<
>What is an attack cabbit?
>
> >>
>
>Ryo-Ohki, part cat and part rabbit.  Loves carrots and can convert
>into a spaceship.   www.cabbit.com.

That would be handy.  Maybe Espen should breed his rabbit with a cat!

Betty

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>  But it won't cover the ugly corner, the place where
>the new electric pole is, where my neighbors store a bunch of ugly junk
>right beside my outside building.  I want something in that corner to
>cover up their ugly junk.     -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Just look the other way.  In another year, you will have sold this house
and moved to the Sea.


    --bonniev

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At 08:31 AM 3/2/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
>>  But it won't cover the ugly corner, the place where
>>the new electric pole is, where my neighbors store a bunch of ugly junk
>>right beside my outside building.  I want something in that corner to
>>cover up their ugly junk.     -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>Just look the other way.  In another year, you will have sold this house
>and moved to the Sea.

That sounds exciting.  Move out of the too big house with the ugly junk
store nearby.  Be sure to check out your neighbors junk before you move
into another house.

Betty

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 07:41:48 -0600
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bonniev wrote:

> Just look the other way.  In another year, you will have sold this house
> and moved to the Sea.

But making that ugly place prettier will be good for selling the house.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Betty wrote:
> >
> > Did you celebrate your birthday today or yesterday? Hope it was a good one.
>
> HAPPY BIRTHDAY!  Is it yesterday or today?  Iow, why the choice of
> celebration dates?  I've heard that lots and lots of people have flocked
> to NO for celebration this weekend, no doubt in honor of Richard's bday.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
As my son was born on Leap Year Day, I have a guess.
Happy Birthday, Richard. Hope that both days, and the coming year,
were/are happy.
clo

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 08:12:52 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Sign
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Natalie Maynor wrote:


> I will put all this on hold for another couple of weeks, though, since a
> week from now I will be into my spring break travels -- checking out Bay
> St. Louis.


        Is Bay St. Louis on the Gulf or on the river?




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:03:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Betty wrote:

>>HAPPY BIRTHDAY!  Is it yesterday or today?  Iow, why the choice of
>>celebration dates?  I've heard that lots and lots of people have flocked
>>to NO for celebration this weekend, no doubt in honor of Richard's bday.
>
>His birthday is Feb. 29.

Birthday? What birthday?>

Bethany

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty wrote:

> His birthday is Feb. 29.

I should've thought of that.  I guess what threw me was forgetting that
you wrote that yesterday and thinking that "yesterday or today" meant
March 1 or 2.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 06:00:35 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: Richard
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At 06:46 AM 3/2/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>Betty wrote:
> >
> > Did you celebrate your birthday today or yesterday? Hope it was a good one.
>
>HAPPY BIRTHDAY!  Is it yesterday or today?  Iow, why the choice of
>celebration dates?  I've heard that lots and lots of people have flocked
>to NO for celebration this weekend, no doubt in honor of Richard's bday.

His birthday is Feb. 29.

Betty

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Betty wrote:
>  Be sure to check out your neighbors junk before you move
> into another house.

But I'm enjoying the challenge of creating a shield.  One obvious
possibility would be a small lattice-work screen with vines growing on
it, but I think the container idea would be easier and more interesting
in a way.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Ah, but I'm just a rebounder-to-be.

And as to TV - I have as serious an addiction to the flashing lights and
loud noises on that screen as I do to Popcap, which I used to step down
from Buffy, Xena, (both of which I was watching in the same frame of
mind as learning to listen to rap, hiphop, and techno - as serious
study of Pop Culture. Thankfully, I was rescued before I became
hooked to reality TV - sorry Survivor fans!)Judging Amy, ER, Monk, etc.
Popcap was my methadone!

clo

On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-01 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
> > On Sat, 1 Mar 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > > 02003-03-01 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
> >
> > > > I have been a popcap addict for a while, and have just finally broken its
> > > > spell by substituting poetry readings and Wordslist.
> > >
> > > They don't like "rebounders" at poetry readings ...
> >
> > What's a rebounder?  clo
>
> Somebody who has just broken up--damn, don't you watch any TV?
>

***************************************************************
Carolyn Ostrander
Syracuse University Honors Program      (315) 443-2759 (voice)
Suite 306 Bowne Hall                    (315) 443-3235 fax
Syracuse NY 13244                       clostran@syr.edu
http://honors.syr.edu

National Cued Speech Association        Vice President
121 Victoria Pl                         (315) 423-3948
Syracuse NY 13210                       clostran@cuedspeech.org
http://web.syr.edu/~clostran/index.html

To request Cued Speech workshops or evaluations in central New York:
cued_speech_training@hotmail.com
***************************************************************

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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         Is Bay St. Louis on the Gulf or on the river?

Gulf.  Mississippi Sound is the actual name of that water, I think --
the water between the row of islands and the coast.  The islands block
the surf and the blueness, making the water brown and <flat>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 08:24:03 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Sign
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Betty wrote:
>
>>Rats hide
>>in them, too.
>>
>
> Eek.  Maybe I'll do purple fountain grass instead.  But I think it's an
> annual.  I'll know for sure pretty soon.  I've been watching the
> dead-looking pfg in a yard around the circle from me.  It was beautiful
> until really cold weather.  Now it's a mass of straw -- but would still
> be a screen.  I'm watching to see whether it comes back to life this
> spring.


        I leave my zebra grass alone all winter because I like the
straw look -- I think it is a nice color.  In the spring,
green starts coming up from the base and I cut the straw
down.  It takes about a month for it to be full size again.
  I need to thin it out -- the thing is huge now.  It would
indeed make a good screen for ugly junk.

        My Rose of Sharon are huge and grow like weeds -- probably
because I don't like them.  They're a messy tree.  I have
one that is intertwined in the chain link fence along the
driveway that I have to cut back a couple times a year so we
can use the driveway -- I sort of carve it into a giant
canopy.  So, I guess it would make a good screen, too, but
would take a few years.  So would a rhododendron.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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This is a pretty good map for showing where Bay St. Louis is except for
not telling you where it is:

http://www.ssc.nasa.gov/maps/ssc-regional.gif

It shows the bay poking up, suggesting that BSL is up there.  But really
BSL wraps around the corner from where the map says "Henderson Point"
(which I've never heard of) and up on the bay.  Or another way of
describing it -- BSL is just across the bridge from Pass Christian.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Chilly for Peace
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:53:14 -0600
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       AP Photo  
Chileans Undress in Anti-War Protest 
(AP) - More than hundred 300 men and women undressed 
in a warm Saturday morning in Santiago to stage a festive
protest against war in Iraq. Police watched the unusual protest 
appearing even to share the humor of the demonstrators in a 
park in downtown Santiago. The humorous mood did not last
long. After about one hour, the demonstrators — some of them 
dressed again, others sill naked — marched several blocks to 
a plaza in front of the presidential palace of La Moneda, where
they tried to repeat their massive naked protest


Reading this, when I was not quite awake this morning,
I'm thinking no wonder the people were chilly.

                     - D. M.

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 09:01:30 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Sign
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>        Is Bay St. Louis on the Gulf or on the river?
>>
>
> Gulf.  Mississippi Sound is the actual name of that water, I think --
> the water between the row of islands and the coast.  The islands block
> the surf and the blueness, making the water brown and <flat>.
>


OK, cuz I couldn't think of the attraction of living near
the river (I live within five miles of the Mississippi and
the Missouri).  Bay St. Louis doesn't sound all that
attractive either, except I guess you could boat out past
the islands.  I'm a little tired of brown water.  When I go
home this summer, I want to spend a lot of time near clean,
blue water.  Not that the rivers don't have their good
points -- I just enjoy them for different reasons.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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>I'm a little tired of brown water.  When I go
>home this summer, I want to spend a lot of time near clean,
>blue water.  Not that the rivers don't have their good
>points -- I just enjoy them for different reasons.
>Rita Rouvalis Chapman

You and Ana can kayak in the nice blue waters surrounding Mount Desert
Island.  Did you get your reservation at Blackwoods Campground?


    --bonniev

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:11:36 -0600
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 6:02:58 AM, alyce cresap wrote:

> Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>
>> This is a good question.  I want the maximum size that will be
>> accommodated, rootfully speaking, by a large pot.
>>
> Can you grow hibiscus in MS?

It's too cold here for hibiscus, and Natalie is colder. (I have a
dead one in a pot outside--froze to death.)

Karen

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Betty wrote:
>
> His birthday is Feb. 29.

This fact leapt right past me. Happy birthday, Richard.

alyce

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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:20:38 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Betty wrote:
>>  Be sure to check out your neighbors junk before you move
>> into another house.

> But I'm enjoying the challenge of creating a shield.  One obvious
> possibility would be a small lattice-work screen with vines growing on
> it, but I think the container idea would be easier and more interesting
> in a way.

One doesn't exclude the other.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 09:35:36 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Turnaround
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alyce cresap wrote:


> On a slightly different point--I learned today that in addition to the
> $15 billion offered to Turkey, Bush has told the Turks that we will
> disarm their mortal enemies the Kurds in the north of Iraq. This just
> floored me. These poor Kurds are going to be sitting ducks, just a few
> miles from the Turks who hate them. And these are the same Kurds that we
> urged to rise up after Gulf War I to overturn Saddam, and then we did
> not support them. How are we going to disarm them, I wonder? Kill them?
> I can see that we wiil be much beloved by all Kurds.


        This is just Not Right.  We're just setting up the next
conflict.  The Turks won't hesitate to massacre the Kurds
any more than Saddam has.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>         This is just Not Right.  We're just setting up the next
> conflict.  The Turks won't hesitate to massacre the Kurds
> any more than Saddam has.

I think that is what I said. The Kurds are toast, I fear. They surely
have no reason to believe anything the US has to say to them ever again.
How many times will they be sold out, one wonders.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:48:14 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 7:03:06 AM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> On a related subject, there's an interesting editorial in today's NYT
> contrasting Dubya and his father:

Why does she call the elder Bush 41?

Karen

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 09:50:41 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Turnaround
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>        This is just Not Right.  We're just setting up the next
>>conflict.  The Turks won't hesitate to massacre the Kurds
>>any more than Saddam has.
>>
>
> I think that is what I said. The Kurds are toast, I fear. They surely
> have no reason to believe anything the US has to say to them ever again.
> How many times will they be sold out, one wonders.


        I think the Turks are angling for territory -- another
Ottoman Empire.  This will, naturally, piss off the Balkans.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 09:56:18 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:52:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Happy Independence Day!

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Why does she call the elder Bush 41?

His class year? Or athletic jersey number? I forget.

alyce

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Rita Chapman wrote:
>  This will, naturally, piss off the Balkans.

Yep. And yet, surprisingly, Greece and Turkey agreed to cooperate on
building a gas pipeline the other day. Never knew them to agree on
anything before.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 10:16:22 2003
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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] [Fwd: [BI] It's he-e-e-e-ere]
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In a message dated 03/01/2003 7:05:40 PM Central Standard Time, mem@FLEX.COM
writes:

<<
On 1 Mar 2003 at 14:42, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> I don't consider myself <odd>.

I sure do. And here's the evidence:

> Barf.  Soy sauce has no place on rice.

    mem

>>

I love soy sauce on rice; I always put soy sauce on fried rice
and sushi.  One of the things I miss about working at Sears
is going to the Chinese fast-food place and getting mushroom
chicken and fried rice.  It's too much trouble to go to the mall
just to get food there.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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In a message dated 03/02/2003 7:53:52 AM Central Standard Time,
bclark@UCLINK.BERKELEY.EDU writes:

<<
That would be handy.  Maybe Espen should breed his rabbit with a cat!


>>

Yeah, but cabbits are created, not bred.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 10:41:54 2003
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http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ugly/
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 10:43:11 2003
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Rita Chapman:
= alyce cresap wrote:
=
= > Rita Chapman wrote:
= >
= >>        This is just Not Right.  We're just setting up the next
= >>conflict.  The Turks won't hesitate to massacre the Kurds
= >>any more than Saddam has.
= >>
= >
= > I think that is what I said. The Kurds are toast, I fear. They surely
= > have no reason to believe anything the US has to say to them ever again.
= > How many times will they be sold out, one wonders.
=
=
=         I think the Turks are angling for territory -- another
= Ottoman Empire.  This will, naturally, piss off the Balkans.
=

I'm going to just let some stuff fly here and see if it turns
into anything coherent.  The Turks have been surpressing their
own Kurds for years.  No one wants to see an independant
Kurdistan except the Kurds.  I'm not sure why this will piss off
the Balkans.  The Turks need to keep doing everything they can to
get into the EU - aside from the fact that the populace in
general is against letting the US have a front in Turkey, the
Turks really don't want to piss off France and Germany, who when
it comes down to it really do have all the power in Europe.  I
read somewhere that the Iraq war is just the beginning of trying to
totally destabilize the middle east, but I didn't read the
reasons behind it or where they thought it's going to go next.
Everything that's happening is part of the US's greater plan to
prevent the emergence of another superpower.

feh.  I'm still not drawing any conclusions out of this mess.
Anybody else see anything?

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 10:42:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>  Bay St. Louis doesn't sound all that
> attractive either, except I guess you could boat out past

BSL is definitely not a place you would choose for scenery.  Nowhere on
the Mississippi coast are there pretty beaches and blue water.  For that
you need to go east to the Alabama coast.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 10:48:51 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 10:44:17 -0600
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: A Good Sign
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > But I'm enjoying the challenge of creating a shield.  One obvious
> > possibility would be a small lattice-work screen with vines growing on
> > it, but I think the container idea would be easier and more interesting
> > in a way.
>
> One doesn't exclude the other.

Sure, but why do both?  The problem with the trellis idea is implanting
it into the ground in such a way that it wouldn't blow over.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Ashcroft still at it
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In a message dated 03/02/2003 9:48:26 AM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
Why does she call the elder Bush 41?


>>

He was the 41st POTUS.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 10:45:15 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         This is just Not Right.

Nothing about this whole war idea is, imho.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: Ashcroft still at it
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Why does she call the elder Bush 41?

To distinguish him from Bush 43, I assume

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 10:54:08 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 10:49:36 -0600
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alyce cresap wrote:
>
> Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > Why does she call the elder Bush 41?
>
> His class year? Or athletic jersey number? I forget.

He was the 41st Pres.  Doesn't Barbara Bush call them 41 and 43?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>What are official pantyhose?

Hose connected to panties...

If I already sent this I apologize. I was unsubbed from the list due to a
problem on this account.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 08:57:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Joslin Kerning <jkerning@yahoo.com>
Subject: Greetings from atop Stowe, Vermont
To: twild@uri.edu, exodus@uri.edu, words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU,
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Hej yall!  It's snowing like crazy up here, making it
difficult to navigate.  'Not a bad bus ride up.  More
later, perhaps when the crew I'm with settles in for a
beer, or two, or more.

'Regards, Alan

__________________________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 11:12:30 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:
> >What are official pantyhose?
>
> Hose connected to panties...

As opposed to using a garterbelt or girdle?  I haven't even seen such
items in at least thirty years now.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 11:17:34 2003
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So did you shove Joslin into the snow and steal his account?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Sylvia Edwards <s.words@pop.mindspring.com>
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Organization: S.words
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Has Google changed ownership?

I type in www.google.com and end up with http://hanmire.com/  AND a long
wait to load.


--
Sylvia Edwards
Litopia    http://www.edwardsly.com
Sylvie's Place    http://www.geocities.com/s.words/

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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 12:27:32 EST
Subject: Sears and Lands' End
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I just read on the www.retailworker.com site that some Sears stores
have Lands' End merchandise on clearance.  So, if you want good
clothes cheap, your nearest full-size Sears store may have it.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 11:32:18 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 09:28:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
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Subject: Re: .
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On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> As opposed to using a garterbelt or girdle?  I haven't even seen such
> items in at least thirty years now.

In Berkeley the other day, in the highly respectable and relatively
upscale shopping area on Fourth Street, I heard a woman ask a clerk for
the kind of hose you use a garterbelt to keep up.  That is, she had asked
for something I hadn't paid attention to, and then she had to explain what
she meant, and I heard that part.  (I didn't stay around for the answer,
being discreet, privacy-respecting and mildly titill^^^ shocked.)

And another other day, I think it was in Macy's, I found to my alarm that
I was in the panty girdle section.  Except they called them something
else.

Also, I think shoes are back to being more pointy and stilettoish.  If I'm
right, soon there will be articles about wars and fashion.

Ann

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 12:32:04 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Sylvia Edwards wrote:
>
> Has Google changed ownership?
>
> I type in www.google.com and end up with http://hanmire.com/  AND a long
> wait to load.

Try again. That is not right.

alyce

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Sylvia Edwards writes,

>I type in www.google.com and end up with http://hanmire.com/  AND a long
>wait to load.

Sounds like something's been hijacked: your search settings, your upstream
link, your computer...

Try typing "http://www.google.com" and see what happens.

Pete

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 11:49:33 2003
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 From another list, a news photo of gas prices in Menlo Park (local to us,
coincidentally):

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030301/168/3e65i.html&e=6&ncid=996

Pete

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Sylvia Edwards:
= Has Google changed ownership?
=
= I type in www.google.com and end up with http://hanmire.com/  AND a long
= wait to load.
=
=

It took a minute to find it.  You typed www.googlle.com.

Google has bought gogle and gooogle.

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steph:
= Sylvia Edwards:
= = Has Google changed ownership?
= =
= = I type in www.google.com and end up with http://hanmire.com/  AND a long
= = wait to load.
= =
= =
=
= It took a minute to find it.  You typed www.googlle.com.
=
= Google has bought gogle and gooogle.

By the way, one of the things you all never see is that if I type
in www.google.com, then it automagically becomes www.google.nl,
and comes up in dutch.  Personally, I think that's ill behaved.

I once complained to Google about the fact that if I was mousing
and not typing then I would use the mouse to push the search
button, and that I really didn't need to be reminded each and
every time I pushed the button that I could just hit enter.  They
sent me back a form and told me they'd reply but never did.  They
have, however, taken my suggestion, and no longer remind me!

They do still keep track that I've hit the button though.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=continuing&btnG=Google+Search

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 12:43:28 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 12:39:45 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Pictures
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I'd put an evergreen there.  Maybe holly.

Natalie Maynor wrote:

> http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/Ugly/
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 12:47:03 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 12:43:20 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Turnaround
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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alyce cresap wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>> This will, naturally, piss off the Balkans.
>>
>
> Yep. And yet, surprisingly, Greece and Turkey agreed to cooperate on
> building a gas pipeline the other day. Never knew them to agree on
> anything before.


        Relations have been better recently.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 12:43:48 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Sign
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>> Bay St. Louis doesn't sound all that
>>attractive either, except I guess you could boat out past
>>
>
> BSL is definitely not a place you would choose for scenery.  Nowhere on
> the Mississippi coast are there pretty beaches and blue water.  For that
> you need to go east to the Alabama coast.


        Then what is the attraction of this place?



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Subject: Re: What's the deal here
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steph writes,

>in www.google.com, then it automagically becomes www.google.nl,
>and comes up in dutch.  Personally, I think that's ill behaved.

Not that I've tried it, but if you don't mind another Google cookie on each
of your computers, it seems that you can reset this in
<http://www.google.com/preferences> in the Interface Language section.

Pete

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 12:51:11 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Turnaround
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steph wrote:

> Rita Chapman:
> = alyce cresap wrote:
> =
> = > Rita Chapman wrote:
> = >
> = >>        This is just Not Right.  We're just setting up the next
> = >>conflict.  The Turks won't hesitate to massacre the Kurds
> = >>any more than Saddam has.
> = >>
> = >
> = > I think that is what I said. The Kurds are toast, I fear. They surely
> = > have no reason to believe anything the US has to say to them ever again.
> = > How many times will they be sold out, one wonders.
> =
> =
> =         I think the Turks are angling for territory -- another
> = Ottoman Empire.  This will, naturally, piss off the Balkans.
> =
>
> I'm going to just let some stuff fly here and see if it turns
> into anything coherent.  The Turks have been surpressing their
> own Kurds for years.  No one wants to see an independant
> Kurdistan except the Kurds.  I'm not sure why this will piss off
> the Balkans.


http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lecture3.html




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: What's the deal here
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=
= Not that I've tried it, but if you don't mind another Google cookie on each
= of your computers, it seems that you can reset this in
= <http://www.google.com/preferences> in the Interface Language section.
=
= Pete

I have done this.  It's just that I've been setting up new
computers at home, and installing new versions of Mozilla, which
doesn't keep everything from the old one, so I've been suffering
with it a lot lately.

My bookmark for Google is http://www.google.com/intl/en/, but
http://www.google.com/en works too.

This means that every once in a while I need to tell it to not
filter my search results for adult content.  That's a lot less
annoying than the Dutch.

This whole thing is DUMB.  I'm fluent in Dutch and can read it
just fine, and the front page is just a hole to put things in.  And
yet it really irks me.

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 13:20:02 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: A Good Sign
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bonniev wrote:

>> I'm a little tired of brown water.  When I go
>> home this summer, I want to spend a lot of time near clean,
>> blue water.  Not that the rivers don't have their good
>> points -- I just enjoy them for different reasons.
>> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>
>
> You and Ana can kayak in the nice blue waters surrounding Mount Desert
> Island.  Did you get your reservation at Blackwoods Campground?


        Not yet.  I need to remember to do that tomorrow.  I have my
airline tickets, though.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: What's the deal here
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steph:
= =
= = Not that I've tried it, but if you don't mind another Google cookie on each
= = of your computers, it seems that you can reset this in
= = <http://www.google.com/preferences> in the Interface Language section.
= =
= = Pete
=
= I have done this.  It's just that I've been setting up new
= computers at home, and installing new versions of Mozilla, which
= doesn't keep everything from the old one, so I've been suffering
= with it a lot lately.
=

I forgot to say, this means my cookies, and thus my preferences
are flushed.  foo.

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Message-ID: <3E625C6C.1AB88ACC@akad.ee>
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 21:33:01 +0200
From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@akad.ee>
Organization: Akadeemia
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Elephant Ears
References: <3E61449A.FE7B0883@maynor.net>
            <102201625512.20030301174055@WordWrite.com>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Saturday, March 1, 2003, 5:39:06 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> > When do I plant elephant ears?  I guess that depends on where I live,
> > which means I guess I should research it on the web or in a garden book.
>
> If I plant some, will they grow into an elephant.

No. One should plant young earless elephants first, or those with tiny ears,
to get beautiful elephant ears.

Perhaps I am not able for anything else than silly remarks for I'm watching TV
over internet -- we had the Parliament election day today. Of course the
results will come later, not today, but most people who voted for either the
party or at least the "wing" I did, must be rather anxious just now. There is
even a possibility that my vote will get lost because the results of the party
may stay under the treshold with which to get seats in the Parliament.
Although I wanted to elect wisely, hoping that the party certainly would get
into it and be a part of a normal coalition.

Kristin

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 13:47:25 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:

> By the way, one of the things you all never see is that if I type
> in www.google.com, then it automagically becomes www.google.nl,
> and comes up in dutch.  Personally, I think that's ill behaved.

When I use google on IE on my office computer, it comes up in Japanese.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 13:48:38 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
> I'd put an evergreen there.  Maybe holly.

There's a huge row of big holly bushes all the way down to the street.
I'm leaning more toward purple fountain grass or one of the clearly
perennial fountain grasses to go with the pampas grass that will be in
that largish space near the ugly corner.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 13:49:44 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rita Chapman wrote:

>         Then what is the attraction of this place?

The community in general.  And I like the coastal smell even if the
beach and water are ugly.  And it's warmer there than here.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 13:53:14 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 1:48:38 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> There's a huge row of big holly bushes all the way down to the street.
> I'm leaning more toward purple fountain grass or one of the clearly
> perennial fountain grasses to go with the pampas grass that will be in
> that largish space near the ugly corner.

I don't understand why you want them in pots. Why not just plant
whatever it is in the ground?

Karen

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 14:01:21 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 13:56:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I don't understand why you want them in pots. Why not just plant
> whatever it is in the ground?

There's no space.  It would block my neighbor's entrance into his
storage area.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 15:08:30 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> "Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
> cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."

Really? If that happened to me, maybe I'd enjoy eating more.

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Isn't the entrance to your neighbor's storage on your property?

I don't know where the property line is.  But I certainly wouldn't be so
rude as to block his entrance just because the property line might fall
in the middle of it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 14:20:32 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:16:21 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:08:30 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> "Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
>> cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."

> Really? If that happened to me, maybe I'd enjoy eating more.

I was looking for something to read about Walking Meditation, and
I came across this article on Eating Meditation:
http://www.shinzen.org/shinsub3/artEating.htm

But to answer your question, yes.

Karen

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> http://mr-31238.mr.valuehost.co.uk/assets/Flash/psychic.swf
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Worked for me.  I don't have time
to figure out why, but surely someone
on the list will.

             - D. M.

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:24:01 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:22:55 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
> Worked for me.  I don't have time
> to figure out why, but surely someone
> on the list will.

Didn't work for me. Twice.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 13:56:06 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> >         Then what is the attraction of this place?

Found the answer!

"nobobdy ... wears pantyhose...."
from: http://www.goldinc.com/bsl/oldtown/about.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:01:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 1:33:01 PM, Kristin Sarv wrote:
> No. One should plant young earless elephants first, or those with tiny ears,
> to get beautiful elephant ears.

:0

> Perhaps I am not able for anything else than silly remarks for I'm watching TV
> over internet -- we had the Parliament election day today. Of course the
> results will come later, not today, but most people who voted for either the
> party or at least the "wing" I did, must be rather anxious just now. There is
> even a possibility that my vote will get lost because the results of the party
> may stay under the treshold with which to get seats in the Parliament.

Bleah.

I find Parliamentary elections hard to understand at the best of
times, and it doesn't sound like this election is the best of
times.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:02:41 -0600
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 1:56:55 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> There's no space.  It would block my neighbor's entrance into his
> storage area.

The kind of pots you're talking about would be too heavy to move
anyway, I think.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 1:56:55 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> There's no space.  It would block my neighbor's entrance into his
> storage area.

Isn't the entrance to your neighbor's storage on your property?

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:05:41 -0600
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 11:43:53 AM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
>  From another list, a news photo of gas prices in Menlo Park (local to us,
> coincidentally):

Jeeze Louise. Now I know why I moved to Texas. Gas is almost $1
cheaper here.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 15:09:44 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> The kind of pots you're talking about would be too heavy to move
> anyway, I think.

You can get little dollies with casters.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 14:13:02 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> The kind of pots you're talking about would be too heavy to move
> anyway, I think.

No.  They make wonderful pots these days that look like concrete but are
light.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> > party or at least the "wing" I did, must be rather anxious just now. There is
> > even a possibility that my vote will get lost because the results of the party
> > may stay under the treshold with which to get seats in the Parliament.
>
> Bleah.
>
> I find Parliamentary elections hard to understand at the best of
> times, and it doesn't sound like this election is the best of
> times.

It isn't. The proper wing should have joined before the elections. There are still
too many parties. The proper ones have too little strength when every one is in
action alone.

>"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue, cheeks
>and throat and smell spreads into your nose."

I'll try.

Kristin



>

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 14:15:33 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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http://mr-31238.mr.valuehost.co.uk/assets/Flash/psychic.swf

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:16:58 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:09:44 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> The kind of pots you're talking about would be too heavy to move
>> anyway, I think.

> You can get little dollies with casters.

But they don't roll well on grass.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:18:18 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:13:02 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> The kind of pots you're talking about would be too heavy to move
>> anyway, I think.

> No.  They make wonderful pots these days that look like concrete but are
> light.

The pots may be light, but an Adam-sized plant wouldn't be.

The other thing you can do, of course, is angle them out. To
creat a screen, but leave room to walk behind.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Karen Kay wrote:

> > You can get little dollies with casters.
>
> But they don't roll well on grass.

No rolling on grass would be involved.  But I'd have to get the things
out of my car.  Doesn't matter, though, since I don't plan to buy the
heavy kind.  The light ones cost a bit more but are worth it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 14:19:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> The pots may be light, but an Adam-sized plant wouldn't be.

But I don't plan to move them after they're in position.  I will put
Adam in them after they're in place.  The dirt also.  All I'll have to
move to the place is the empty pots.

> The other thing you can do, of course, is angle them out. To
> creat a screen, but leave room to walk behind.

There's no need to walk behind them.  They're going to be at the edge of
the driveway in a place there's no need to be walking on.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:23:36 -0600
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:19:52 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> But I don't plan to move them after they're in position.

Then what's the point of having them in pots?

> There's no need to walk behind them.  They're going to be at the edge of
> the driveway in a place there's no need to be walking on.

Oh, I see.

But I still don't see why they are pots.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@flex.com>
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Subject: Computer manuals as entertainment
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I've just discovered what is certain to be one of my all-time
favorite gems from computer documentation. The Taiwan-produced manual
tells me that the motherboard includes a USB 1.1/2.0 Complaint
Interface. Now there's something computers have needed for a long
time.

    mem

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:44:35 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:43:02 PM, Michael E. Macmillan wrote:
> I've just discovered what is certain to be one of my all-time
> favorite gems from computer documentation. The Taiwan-produced manual
> tells me that the motherboard includes a USB 1.1/2.0 Complaint
> Interface. Now there's something computers have needed for a long
> time.

Spellcheckers suck.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 14:46:51 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pictures
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            <3E626016.330071C3@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > But I don't plan to move them after they're in position.
>
> Then what's the point of having them in pots?

I don't know how to plant things in concrete.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:57:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:46:51 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > But I don't plan to move them after they're in position.
>>
>> Then what's the point of having them in pots?

> I don't know how to plant things in concrete.

But surely you know how to plant next to concrete?

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Subject: Re:      Re: Pictures
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:04:17 -0600
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>
> I don't know how to plant things in concrete.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

Check with the Mafia.

         - D. M.

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:15:28 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Turnaround
Message-ID: <20030302221528.C20229@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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            <3E616EFB.882F5C76@maynor.net> <3E617260.8EEA46E6@valstar.net>
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= > Kurdistan except the Kurds.  I'm not sure why this will piss off
= > the Balkans.
=
=
= http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lecture3.html
=
=

Thank you.  I don't know how I could have missed the fact that
the Muslims in the Balkans were in effect Turks.

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:18:18 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: What's the deal here
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Natalie Maynor:
= steph wrote:
=
= > By the way, one of the things you all never see is that if I type
= > in www.google.com, then it automagically becomes www.google.nl,
= > and comes up in dutch.  Personally, I think that's ill behaved.
=
= When I use google on IE on my office computer, it comes up in Japanese.
=

Ah, but that's your own fault, for getting Japanese software, no?
That's a much more reasonable assumption.  This is like some
defaults I get on our old laptop, which is running Windows '95 in
Dutch.

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:26:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Computer manuals as entertainment
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 3:25:50 PM, steph wrote:

> Karen Kay:
> = Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:43:02 PM, Michael E. Macmillan wrote:
= >> I've just discovered what is certain to be one of my all-time
= >> favorite gems from computer documentation. The Taiwan-produced manual
= >> tells me that the motherboard includes a USB 1.1/2.0 Complaint
= >> Interface. Now there's something computers have needed for a long
= >> time.
> =
> = Spellcheckers suck.
> =

> I didn't see it right away either.  This is why mistakes get into
> books even after humans edit them.

Lots of editors work from checklists. I'd think that this would
be common enough to make a checklist.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 15:31:51 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:25:50 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Computer manuals as entertainment
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Karen Kay:
= Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:43:02 PM, Michael E. Macmillan wrote:
= > I've just discovered what is certain to be one of my all-time
= > favorite gems from computer documentation. The Taiwan-produced manual
= > tells me that the motherboard includes a USB 1.1/2.0 Complaint
= > Interface. Now there's something computers have needed for a long
= > time.
=
= Spellcheckers suck.
=

I didn't see it right away either.  This is why mistakes get into
books even after humans edit them.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 15:33:26 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:30:53 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Magic
Message-ID: <20030302223053.F20229@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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Karen Kay:
= Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:22:55 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
= > Worked for me.  I don't have time
= > to figure out why, but surely someone
= > on the list will.
=
= Didn't work for me. Twice.
=

That's because you can't do arithmetic.  It's a nine thing.  The
symbol by the nine or it's multiples will always show up.

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 15:35:05 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 3:30:53 PM, steph wrote:

> Karen Kay:
> = Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:22:55 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
= >> Worked for me.  I don't have time
= >> to figure out why, but surely someone
= >> on the list will.
> =
> = Didn't work for me. Twice.
> =

> That's because you can't do arithmetic.  It's a nine thing.  The
> symbol by the nine or it's multiples will always show up.

Thank you.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 15:41:02 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:36:51 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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steph wrote:
> That's because you can't do arithmetic.  It's a nine thing.  The
> symbol by the nine or it's multiples will always show up.

I get 404 Not Found.
alyce

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:42:32 -0500
From: Karen Kay <karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
Subject: Re: Magic
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On Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:30:53 +0100, steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> wrote:
>Karen Kay:
>= Sunday, March 2, 2003, 2:22:55 PM, Doris Markland wrote:
>= > Worked for me.  I don't have time
>= > to figure out why, but surely someone
>= > on the list will.
>=
>= Didn't work for me. Twice.
>=
>
>That's because you can't do arithmetic.  It's a nine thing.  The
>symbol by the nine or it's multiples will always show up.

Huh? That's not the only symbol that shows up. The first time I got a smiley
face.

Karen

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:17:58 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
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steph wrote:

> = > Kurdistan except the Kurds.  I'm not sure why this will piss off
> = > the Balkans.
> =
> =
> = http://www.lib.msu.edu/sowards/balkan/lecture3.html
> =
> =
>
> Thank you.  I don't know how I could have missed the fact that
> the Muslims in the Balkans were in effect Turks.


        I don't remember studying the history of the Balkans in
school -- I wonder if it is not really a typical part of the
world civ. curriculum.  It is something I've read about since.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:35:27 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> But surely you know how to plant next to concrete?

There isn't enough room.  I guess the pictures must not represent the
situation clearly enough.  Even the trellis idea is problematic because
I don't think there would be room for even the skinniest of growth to go
on it.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 16:42:12 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:37:49 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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steph wrote:
> = When I use google on IE on my office computer, it comes up in Japanese.
>
> Ah, but that's your own fault, for getting Japanese software, no?

I didn't get any Japanese software.  But I did tell IE something about
using Japanese.  That's the only reason I put IE on that computer -- it
does Japanese characters without adding anything.  I almost never use
it, though.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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steph wrote:
> It's a nine thing.  The
> symbol by the nine or it's multiples will always show up.

I noticed that the symbols shifted.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:38:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I re-caulk over old caulk without removing the old caulk first?

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 14:45:41 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
Subject: Re: Magic
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

>>That's because you can't do arithmetic.  It's a nine thing.  The
>>symbol by the nine or it's multiples will always show up.
>
>Huh? That's not the only symbol that shows up. The first time I got a smiley
>face.
>
>Karen

Take a good look at the symbol table.  Then refresh.  Repeat as often as
you care to.

Every time you refresh, the glyphs will be different.  But for any given
time, all the multiples of nine (except for 90 and 99) will have the same
glyph.

Ken Miller
Mikkelson School of Voracity

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:23:19 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Turnaround
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Sunday, March 2, 2003, 4:17:58 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>        I don't remember studying the history of the Balkans in
>>school -- I wonder if it is not really a typical part of the
>>world civ. curriculum.  It is something I've read about since.
>>
>
> I certainly didn't. I learned more from Nero Wolfe mysteries than
> I did in school.


        A lot of Euro history became much clearer after I had an
understanding of Balkan history going back to The Crusades
(yes, that really, truly was a bad choice of words for more
reasons than one).




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 4:17:58 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>         I don't remember studying the history of the Balkans in
> school -- I wonder if it is not really a typical part of the
> world civ. curriculum.  It is something I've read about since.

I certainly didn't. I learned more from Nero Wolfe mysteries than
I did in school.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 4:37:49 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I didn't get any Japanese software.  But I did tell IE something about
> using Japanese.  That's the only reason I put IE on that computer -- it
> does Japanese characters without adding anything.  I almost never use
> it, though.

So does Netscape 7.0. It allows you to do multiple languages
simultaneously.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 16:36:09 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Doris Markland wrote:
> > I don't know how to plant things in concrete.
> Check with the Mafia.

If I started digging in my concrete, do you think I might stumble upon
Jimmy Hoffa?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Fire hits Alexandria library

A fire has broken out in Egypt's newly-opened Alexandria library, and
29 people have been rushed to local hospitals suffering from smoke
inhalation.

The fire was blamed on a short circuit.

The extent of damage at Bibliotheca Alexandrina has yet to be
determined, but the fire appeared to be restricted to fourth-floor
administrative offices.

Sixteen fire engines rushed to the scene and put out the blaze in
about 45 minutes. Fifteen ambulances were seen outside the evacuated
library.

"We were evacuated to outside, then [the] fire department arrived.
The smoke [has] stopped now - everybody is safe, thank God," Leila
Dewidar, head of the library's grants division, said.

Fire contributed to the destruction of the original Alexandria
library, one of the world's great centres of learning in the ancient
world.

As the library was evacuated, hundreds of students from nearby
colleges gathered to watch.

Bibliotheca Alexandrina is located in the middle of Alexandria's
newly-renovated seaside promenade.

It was formally opened in October 2002 with great fanfare.

The inaugural ceremony was attended by Egyptian President, Hosni
Mubarak, and about 3,000 dignitaries from around the world, including
France's President Jacques Chirac, and his Italian and Greek
counterparts Carlo Azeglio Ciampi and Costas Stefanopoulos.

The $230 million project - which attracted international financial
and logistical support - hopes to capture the spirit of the ancient
Alexandria library that was founded around 295 BC by Ptolemy I Soter.

The ancient library, which burned down in the 4th Century, was an
international intellectual centre.

The new library - which has room for 4 million volumes- contains
about 240,000 books. It also contains a planetarium, a conference
hall, five research institutes, six galleries and three museums.


Scott Rinnan
--

************************************************
                                Chain Mail Books
                 673 Clark Street  Eugene, OR 97402
           Tel: (541) 345-3853     Fax: (541) 683-1338
                             scottrinnan@qwest.net

                                   Specializing in:
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                           Browse our inventory at:
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              http://www.amazon.com/shops/chainbooks

"A book should serve as the ax for the frozen sea within us."

-Franz Kafka
************************************************

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:10:28 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 4:45:41 PM, Bookrat wrote:

>>>That's because you can't do arithmetic.  It's a nine thing.  The
>>>symbol by the nine or it's multiples will always show up.
>>
>>Huh? That's not the only symbol that shows up. The first time I got a smiley
>>face.
>>
>>Karen

> Take a good look at the symbol table.  Then refresh.  Repeat as often as
> you care to.

> Every time you refresh, the glyphs will be different.  But for any given
> time, all the multiples of nine (except for 90 and 99) will have the same
> glyph.

Oh, I see. You have to follow the steps in the right order...

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:13:12 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Chilly for Peace
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02003-03-02 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
>        AP Photo
> Chileans Undress in Anti-War Protest
> (AP) - More than hundred 300 men and women undressed
> in a warm Saturday morning in Santiago to stage a festive
> protest against war in Iraq. Police watched the unusual protest
> appearing even to share the humor of the demonstrators in a
> park in downtown Santiago. The humorous mood did not last
> long. After about one hour, the demonstrators — some of them
> dressed again, others sill naked — marched several blocks to
> a plaza in front of the presidential palace of La Moneda, where
> they tried to repeat their massive naked protest
>
>
> Reading this, when I was not quite awake this morning,
> I'm thinking no wonder the people were chilly.

And WACKY. I don't know if anybody this wacky even deserves a
news report frankly ...

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:14:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 5:41:16 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> The new library - which has room for 4 million volumes- contains
> about 240,000 books. It also contains a planetarium, a conference
> hall, five research institutes, six galleries and three museums.

This is smaller than the University of Illinois library (which
used to be the biggest univ. library--Yale was in second place,
Harvard was 3rd).

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:29:03 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-03-02 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
> Ah, but I'm just a rebounder-to-be.

Nice save!

> And as to TV - I have as serious an addiction to the flashing lights and
> loud noises on that screen as I do to Popcap, which I used to step down
> from Buffy, Xena, (both of which I was watching in the same frame of
> mind as learning to listen to rap, hiphop, and techno - as serious
> study of Pop Culture. Thankfully, I was rescued before I became
> hooked to reality TV - sorry Survivor fans!)Judging Amy, ER, Monk, etc.
> Popcap was my methadone!

I'd like to know the reason for being a "serious student of pop culture".
If you don't like it right off the bat, not much is gained by developing
a taste for it. If you are doing it to learn something out of it, I believe
the returns are very meager. If you are doing it to "understand kids",
or maybe hang with gen-xers, or whatever, it won't work. This is what I
think. So why do it?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 18:43:45 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:39:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
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On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> I already heard it on the male version of The View ... you know
> the show I am talking about?

No . . .

Ann

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 18:52:17 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 19:48:07 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Ann Borkin wrote:
> > Also, I think shoes are back to being more pointy and stilettoish.
> > If I'm right, soon there will be articles about wars and fashion.

I have some beautiful pointy stilettosh shoes, not that I'll ever be
able to wear them again. But they are so beautiful and were so expensive
that I never could stand to dispose of them. If anyone wears a 10AA, see
me.

I also have some stockings to wear with a garter belt, but I have no
garter belt and would not wear it if I did. But these are new stockings
and I don't want to throw them away.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> To be unmutant.

I don't think that is all that is behind mutantism. I never have seen
Survivor or any realism show, for instance, but no one would call me
mutant. Even though I know nothing of current music, no one calls me
mutant. It takes more  than that. I only just learned today who
President Barrett is. Am I mutant?

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 18:59:26 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 19:54:48 -0500
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We started out the morning with snow showers atop less than an inch of snow
that accumulated overnight.  It continued to warm, so that by mid-day, we
had more snow showers, but no accumulation.  Then as the afternoon wore on,
the temperature rose and the rain began.  We are forecast for 1-2 inches of
rain.  Right now, the water is flowing quite nicely down Forest Street in
front of our house toward Eagle Lake Road.  Whether the drains down that
way can handle it is another matter.  Later tonight or early tomorrow,
things are supposed to taper off, with maybe some minor snow showers.  Then
tomorrow, the bottom drops out of the thermometer again---lows down to
(-5F) tomorrow night---which means that there will be ice everywhere.  My
guess is that the park will be beautiful, but one will need really good
ice-grippers and a great deal of patience in order to see it.

cwv

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:00:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 6:49:56 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> God doesn't care, but it is not likely to stick well.

Whew, that's good to know! The sticking thing doesn't actually
seem to be a problem, at least in the places I'm caulking with
the stuff I'm caulking with. (The Dap stuff for Tub and Tile.)

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 19:21:11 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 19:43:46 -0500
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> This is smaller than the University of Illinois library (which
> used to be the biggest univ. library--Yale was in second place,
> Harvard was 3rd).

I should have saved another article about it from the other day. The
Alexandria Library plans to make available any book ever published at
the click of your mouse.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 16:45:24 -0800 (PST)
From: Ann Borkin <aborkin@rahul.net>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0303021637500.7933-100000@mauve.rahul.net>
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On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Ann Borkin wrote:
> On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >
> > I already heard it on the male version of The View ... you know
> > the show I am talking about?
> No . . .

But I searched and found:

Let The View Make Over Your Man
Is your man's sense of style so embarrassing that you hate going out in
public? If so, you may like our segment idea: helping turn your drab,
outdated boyfriend into the man you've always wanted!
Send us his color picture and a letter stating why you think your
boyfriend is perfect for us. Include your name, address and home phone
number. Send your pictures by November 5th (sorry the pictures will not be
returned) to Make Over Your Man, The View, 320 West 66th Street, NY, NY
10023.

- - - - -

Evidently a variation of love and transform.

Ann

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 18:34:55 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Cannibalism hits California in wake of rising gas prices
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02003-03-02 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Karen Kay wrote:
> > "Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate,
> > tongue, cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
>
> Really? If that happened to me, maybe I'd enjoy eating more.

I believe it always happens, but latently--you need to grab on to
it and gradually become familiar with it. Maybe spicy foods are good
for getting a headstart ...

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 18:49:38 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > Every time you refresh, the glyphs will be different.  But for any given
> > time, all the multiples of nine (except for 90 and 99) will have the same
> > glyph.
>
> Oh, I see. You have to follow the steps in the right order...

No, you just have to click repeatedly on 9 or its multiples.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tushar Samant wrote:

> I'd like to know the reason for being a "serious student of pop culture".

To be unmutant.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> I also have some stockings to wear with a garter belt, but I have no
> garter belt and would not wear it if I did. But these are new stockings
> and I don't want to throw them away.

Why do you have them?  Do you mean they were knew when you bought them
thirty or forty years ago and thus are still new since unused?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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>I only just learned today who
>President Barrett is. Am I mutant?
>alyce

Bartlett.   You are eccentric.  Natalie is mutant.


    --bonniev

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> Why do you have them?  Do you mean they were knew when you bought them
> thirty or forty years ago and thus are still new since unused?

Yes. Waste not, want not. That is why I have so much stuff. I cannot
dispose of perfectly good things. And for that you may call me mutant.

alyce

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>Yes. Waste not, want not. That is why I have so much stuff. I cannot
>dispose of perfectly good things. And for that you may call me mutant.
>alyce

Don't you ever donate things to charity?  Someone else might take good care
and appreciate having your unneeded clothing.


    --bonniev

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I re-caulk over old caulk without removing the old caulk first?
>
God doesn't care, but it is not likely to stick well.

alyce


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:53:24 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, alyce cresap wrote:

>I have some beautiful pointy stilettosh shoes, not that I'll ever be
>able to wear them again. But they are so beautiful and were so expensive
>that I never could stand to dispose of them. If anyone wears a 10AA, see
>me.

Too narrow. And I no longer wear such items. They sound gorgeous.

Bethany

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:04:41 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 6:54:56 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Yes. Waste not, want not. That is why I have so much stuff. I cannot
> dispose of perfectly good things. And for that you may call me mutant.

Pack rat.:) A woman after Ligniere's heart.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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bonniev wrote:
>
>
> Bartlett.

Close enough.

>   You are eccentric.

Cool. I love being eccentric.

> Natalie is mutant.

Just a little.

alyce

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bonniev wrote:
> >
> Don't you ever donate things to charity?  Someone else might take good care
> and appreciate having your unneeded clothing.

Yes I do, Bonnie. I have given tons (literally) of clothes to the thrift
shops. I have much more to give, but I need help. I cannot sort it, lift
it, carry it. I'm giving the stockings to Doug for the school's costume
shop in case they ever do a period piece that requires seeing thighs at
the top of nylon stockings.

alyce

alyce

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Pack rat.:)

That I am.

>A woman after Ligniere's heart.

Send him up here. He can cook for me and teach me to have sensations
over the palate, tongue, cheeks and throat.

alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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You do ask the most interesting questions!

 I may be unusual in this respect, but in fact I have learned
to appreciate many things that seemed impossible at first,
including opera and the republican point of view. So why
not trance and Kevin Sorbo? Besides, it's trained in:

As it happens, my undergrad life began under a guy named
Frank Bayer, who had been a motocycle hood in KS (though
how that cd be, I never quite understood - his most entertaining
cycle-hood story involved a cornfield and hot exhaust pipes!) who
was turned on to academia (he claimed) by meeting Joseph Heller
in a bar. <And> his first mentor as a professor was Bob Byington,
who among other things went to the Smithsonian and took Captain
America and the Hulk with him.

<aside> as I haven't quite gauged the flavor of the list yet, I won't
insert the story of the church Frank co-founded, and it's principle
rite, a celebrated orgy </aside>

Among many other odd turns in my education, I rappeled with
Frank into a cave in W. Va, ostensibly doing folklore research;
(this would be before I quit school the first time), and the five
most important people in my adult life all intersect at that cave.
The most important dialogue to take actually take place in the
bottom of HellHole concerned tupperware; and perhaps that
explains as well as anything would, why I am valiantly hanging
in with words-l, as well as why I decided to learn from the
Buffster what she had to teach.

ps. Teens and I are mutually pretty transparent. It may be the
fact that when I started to interpret for the deaf, I began in
8th grade and essentially went through a second round of junior
high, high school and undergrad, this time as a fly on the wall.
This comes in handy as an academic advisor. I don't have to
try to speak their language, because I comprehend it.

clo

Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-02 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
> > Ah, but I'm just a rebounder-to-be.
>
> Nice save!
>
> > And as to TV - I have as serious an addiction to the flashing lights and
> > loud noises on that screen as I do to Popcap, which I used to step down
> > from Buffy, Xena, (both of which I was watching in the same frame of
> > mind as learning to listen to rap, hiphop, and techno - as serious
> > study of Pop Culture. Thankfully, I was rescued before I became
> > hooked to reality TV - sorry Survivor fans!)Judging Amy, ER, Monk, etc.
> > Popcap was my methadone!
>
> I'd like to know the reason for being a "serious student of pop culture".
> If you don't like it right off the bat, not much is gained by developing
> a taste for it. If you are doing it to learn something out of it, I believe
> the returns are very meager. If you are doing it to "understand kids",
> or maybe hang with gen-xers, or whatever, it won't work. This is what I
> think. So why do it?

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02003-03-02 | Ann Borkin <aborkin@RAHUL.NET> writes:
> (I didn't stay around for the answer,
> being discreet, privacy-respecting and mildly titill^^^ shocked.)

Oh man I am so TURNED ON!!!!!@

> Also, I think shoes are back to being more pointy and stilettoish.
> If I'm right, soon there will be articles about wars and fashion.

I already heard it on the male version of The View ... you know
the show I am talking about?

Note: all raised eyebrows will be flamed. I regularly observe this
show since I want to be on it.

OneLove

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:03:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 6:53:40 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> It takes more  than that. I only just learned today who
> President Barrett is. Am I mutant?

Bartlett? On West Wing. My hero!

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:24:50 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 7:13:48 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
>>A woman after Ligniere's heart.

> Send him up here. He can cook for me and teach me to have sensations
> over the palate, tongue, cheeks and throat.

LOL. I think he specializes in this.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 19:26:53 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: .
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Sunday, March 2, 2003, 7:13:48 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
>
>>>A woman after Ligniere's heart.
>>>
>
>>Send him up here. He can cook for me and teach me to have sensations
>>over the palate, tongue, cheeks and throat.
>>
>
> LOL. I think he specializes in this.
>

        TMI.


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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At 07:53 PM 3/2/2003 -0500, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
>On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, alyce cresap wrote:
>
> >I have some beautiful pointy stilettosh shoes, not that I'll ever be
> >able to wear them again. But they are so beautiful and were so expensive
> >that I never could stand to dispose of them. If anyone wears a 10AA, see
> >me.
>
>Too narrow. And I no longer wear such items. They sound gorgeous.

What exactly sounds gorgeous about them from her description?

BB

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alyce cresap wrote:

> It takes more  than that. I only just learned today who
> President Barrett is. Am I mutant?

Who is President Barrett?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 19:47:35 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 19:43:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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I think you would be a good candidate for "Married by America".

Karen

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > > Why do you have them?  Do you mean they were knew when you bought them
> > > thirty or forty years ago and thus are still new since unused?
> >
> > Yes. Waste not, want not. That is why I have so much stuff. I cannot
> > dispose of perfectly good things. And for that you may call me mutant.
>
> I can't imagine throwing away anything that's in good shape.  I give
> things to the Salvation Army, even some things that might be insultingly
> worn out since I think that maybe somebody somewhere wouldn't consider
> them unusable.  I'm not sure that the SA would have people wanting
> garterbelt-style hose now, but surely there is somebody you could give
> them to to use for some purpose.  Maybe somebody collects such things.
> Check e-bay.

Oh yes, they'd sell on e-bay. But you need pix on e-bay these days and
my little camera can't do them justice. If I had enough time left on
this earth, I'd get me a fine camera and make my fortune with all the
e-bay items I have.
But it won't happen.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 19:30:25 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
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Carolyn Ostrander wrote:


> ps. Teens and I are mutually pretty transparent. It may be the
> fact that when I started to interpret for the deaf, I began in
> 8th grade and essentially went through a second round of junior
> high, high school and undergrad, this time as a fly on the wall.
> This comes in handy as an academic advisor. I don't have to
> try to speak their language, because I comprehend it.


        My only response to this is an indefinite pronoun.





--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 19:31:15 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: .
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Betty wrote:

> At 07:53 PM 3/2/2003 -0500, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, alyce cresap wrote:
>>
>> >I have some beautiful pointy stilettosh shoes, not that I'll ever be
>> >able to wear them again. But they are so beautiful and were so expensive
>> >that I never could stand to dispose of them. If anyone wears a 10AA, see
>> >me.
>>
>> Too narrow. And I no longer wear such items. They sound gorgeous.
>
>
> What exactly sounds gorgeous about them from her description?


        I'll bet Janet could find a use for them.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
for most to be ok with me.
clo

Rita Chapman wrote:

> Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>
> > ps. Teens and I are mutually pretty transparent. It may be the
> > fact that when I started to interpret for the deaf, I began in
> > 8th grade and essentially went through a second round of junior
> > high, high school and undergrad, this time as a fly on the wall.
> > This comes in handy as an academic advisor. I don't have to
> > try to speak their language, because I comprehend it.
>
>         My only response to this is an indefinite pronoun.

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> Bartlett.   You are eccentric.  Natalie is mutant.

Who is President Bartlett?  And how is eccentricity different from
mutancy?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> > Why do you have them?  Do you mean they were knew when you bought them
> > thirty or forty years ago and thus are still new since unused?
>
> Yes. Waste not, want not. That is why I have so much stuff. I cannot
> dispose of perfectly good things. And for that you may call me mutant.

I can't imagine throwing away anything that's in good shape.  I give
things to the Salvation Army, even some things that might be insultingly
worn out since I think that maybe somebody somewhere wouldn't consider
them unusable.  I'm not sure that the SA would have people wanting
garterbelt-style hose now, but surely there is somebody you could give
them to to use for some purpose.  Maybe somebody collects such things.
Check e-bay.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Betty wrote:
> What exactly sounds gorgeous about them from her description?

I wondered that, too. I only said they were beautiful.

alyce

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Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Who is President Barrett?
>
I was wrong. It's Bartlett.

alyce

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D.M:

>Staunch democrats,

Lost my respect right there. I *loathe* partisans
of both stripes.

>They distrust the UN,
>from things we've seen in the past.

My memory is faulty here - I think of the UN as
being too wimpy to do anything real to defy America.
To use the most egregious example, the UN may pass
gazillion resolutions against Israel but the US
doubles its annual aid to Israel without a word
about the settlements and the UN can't do a thing
about it. Can you remind me of explicitly anti-US
things the UN has done?

I think of the UN as this bumbling, ineffectual
organization without any teeth. Doesn't have
the muscle to stand up to the US, for sure.

-rashmi, perplexed or senile, you decide



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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I think you would be a good candidate for "Married by America".
>
There was a segment on 60 Minutes tonight on Indian entrepreneurs who
have created thousnads of jobs in the US because of their fine technical
skills, and I fell asleep and missed it.
alyce
--

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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

 Doesn't have
> the muscle to stand up to the US, for sure.

It's coming mighty close right now.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 20:59:46 -0500
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Karen Kay wrote:
> Thousands of jobs for whom? Other Indians?

For everyone, I assume, but then, as I said, I slept through it.

alyce

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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> I think of the UN as this bumbling, ineffectual
> organization without any teeth.

I don't think any such body can be perfect, but I think it's the closest
we can come to world communication/stability.

> Doesn't have
> the muscle to stand up to the US, for sure.

I think that's on the verge of changing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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alyce cresap wrote:

> > garterbelt-style hose now, but surely there is somebody you could give
> > them to to use for some purpose.  Maybe somebody collects such things.
> > Check e-bay.
>
> Oh yes, they'd sell on e-bay. But you need pix on e-bay these days and
> my little camera can't do them justice. If I had enough time left on

I didn't mean you necessarily should sell them on e-bay.  I just meant
that that might give an idea of whether somebody might like to have
them.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:03:47 -0600
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 7:59:46 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Thousands of jobs for whom? Other Indians?

> For everyone, I assume, but then, as I said, I slept through it.

Well... I've seen too much of the Indian Mafia, I guess. I don't
believe the jobs are for everyone.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:06:35 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>         This sounds condescending.

What part, precisely? I mean... how can giving them room to do
their thing be condescending?

> Carolyn Ostrander wrote:

>> OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
>> I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
>> know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
>> for most to be ok with me.
>> clo
>>
>> Rita Chapman wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>ps. Teens and I are mutually pretty transparent. It may be the
>>>>fact that when I started to interpret for the deaf, I began in
>>>>8th grade and essentially went through a second round of junior
>>>>high, high school and undergrad, this time as a fly on the wall.
>>>>This comes in handy as an academic advisor. I don't have to
>>>>try to speak their language, because I comprehend it.
>>>>
>>>        My only response to this is an indefinite pronoun.
>>>
>>


> --
> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
> rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
> http://www.etext.org/~rita




Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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At 01:51 AM 3/3/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:

>-rashmi, perplexed or senile, you decide

Who cares? We love you anyway.

Have you had an open house at your condo yet?

Betty

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 20:12:46 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:06:35 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>>        This sounds condescending.
>>
>
> What part, precisely? I mean... how can giving them room to do
> their thing be condescending?


        As if they were aliens or something.  I mean, aren't they
people?  Isn't everyone on their own path?


>>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>>
>
>>>OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
>>>I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
>>>know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
>>>for most to be ok with me.
>>>clo
>>>
>>>Rita Chapman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>ps. Teens and I are mutually pretty transparent. It may be the
>>>>>fact that when I started to interpret for the deaf, I began in
>>>>>8th grade and essentially went through a second round of junior
>>>>>high, high school and undergrad, this time as a fly on the wall.
>>>>>This comes in handy as an academic advisor. I don't have to
>>>>>try to speak their language, because I comprehend it.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>       My only response to this is an indefinite pronoun.
>>>>
>>>>
>
>
>>--
>>Rita Rouvalis Chapman
>>rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
>>http://www.etext.org/~rita
>>
>
>
>
>
> Karen
> "Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
> cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
>  --Shinzen Young
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: eccentric
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 02:12:55 +0000
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Alyce is no more an eccentric than bonniev a hermit.
(whatever the word is, I forget.)

-rashmi


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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:12:46 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>         As if they were aliens or something.  I mean, aren't they
> people?  Isn't everyone on their own path?

Yes, they are. But a lot of people don't treat other people as if
they were. My parents certainly didn't.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 7:55:50 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> There was a segment on 60 Minutes tonight on Indian entrepreneurs who
> have created thousnads of jobs in the US because of their fine technical
> skills, and I fell asleep and missed it.

Thousands of jobs for whom? Other Indians?

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:12:55 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> Alyce is no more an eccentric than bonniev a hermit.
> (whatever the word is, I forget.)

Recluse. But I disagree with your assertion. Her collections are
enough to make Alyce eccentric. But I do agree that Bonnie is not
a recluse--I am more of a recluse than Bonnie is.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 20:02:21 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
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Karen Kay wrote:

> I think you would be a good candidate for "Married by America".


        Excellent observation.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 20:06:35 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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        This sounds condescending.

Carolyn Ostrander wrote:

> OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
> I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
> know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
> for most to be ok with me.
> clo
>
> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>>
>>
>>>ps. Teens and I are mutually pretty transparent. It may be the
>>>fact that when I started to interpret for the deaf, I began in
>>>8th grade and essentially went through a second round of junior
>>>high, high school and undergrad, this time as a fly on the wall.
>>>This comes in handy as an academic advisor. I don't have to
>>>try to speak their language, because I comprehend it.
>>>
>>        My only response to this is an indefinite pronoun.
>>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 21:11:34 -0500
From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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Please explain more.
clo

Rita Chapman wrote:

>         This sounds condescending.
>
> Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>
> > OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
> > I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
> > know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
> > for most to be ok with me.
> > clo
> >
> > Rita Chapman wrote:
> >
> >
> >>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>>ps. Teens and I are mutually pretty transparent. It may be the
> >>>fact that when I started to interpret for the deaf, I began in
> >>>8th grade and essentially went through a second round of junior
> >>>high, high school and undergrad, this time as a fly on the wall.
> >>>This comes in handy as an academic advisor. I don't have to
> >>>try to speak their language, because I comprehend it.
> >>>
> >>        My only response to this is an indefinite pronoun.
> >>
> >
>
> --
> Rita Rouvalis Chapman
> rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
> http://www.etext.org/~rita

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 21:13:17 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote: time left on
>
> I didn't mean you necessarily should sell them on e-bay.  I just meant
> that that might give an idea of whether somebody might like to have
> them.

I'm sure that many women still wear them. I have heard that men find
them sexy, but I don't know that from personal experience, of course.
They are black, btw. The garter
belt that went with them was black lace with a pink ribbon intertwined
through it. I don't know what became of that.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 21:18:28 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> Alyce is no more an eccentric than bonniev a hermit.
> (whatever the word is, I forget.)
>
Spoil sport. I was revelling in my eccentricity.

alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
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At 09:18 PM 3/2/2003 -0500, alyce cresap wrote:
>Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> >
> > Alyce is no more an eccentric than bonniev a hermit.
> > (whatever the word is, I forget.)
> >
>Spoil sport. I was revelling in my eccentricity.

You can be eccentric, Alyce. I don't know why rashmi thinks you aren't
except for maybe your political views.

Betty

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OK, I get it.
But please remember the context, which was that doing work to
understand pop culture could have as a goal trying to "understand
kids" or hang with gen-xers.  My reply was, I don't feel a need
for that. I've been through one adolescence on my own, and a
second as a very intent observer (my job to put the exact
speech on my hands and the tone of  voice on my face), not to
mention parenting adolescents, and don't see a reason to
act as though "speaking teen" will make me one of "them".

It wasn't me that drew demarcations!
clo

Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-02 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
> > Ah, but I'm just a rebounder-to-be.
>
> Nice save!
>

> I'd like to know the reason for being a "serious student of pop culture".
> If you don't like it right off the bat, not much is gained by developing
> a taste for it. If you are doing it to learn something out of it, I believe
> the returns are very meager. If you are doing it to "understand kids",
> or maybe hang with gen-xers, or whatever, it won't work. This is what I
> think. So why do it?



Rita Chapman wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>
> > Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:06:35 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
> >
> >>        This sounds condescending.
> >>
> >
> > What part, precisely? I mean... how can giving them room to do
> > their thing be condescending?
>
>         As if they were aliens or something.  I mean, aren't they
> people?  Isn't everyone on their own path?
>
> >>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> >>
> >
> >>>OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
> >>>I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
> >>>know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
> >>>for most to be ok with me.
> >>>clo
> >>>
> >>>Rita Chapman wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>>ps. Teens and I are mutually pretty transparent. It may be the
> >>>>>fact that when I started to interpret for the deaf, I began in
> >>>>>8th grade and essentially went through a second round of junior
> >>>>>high, high school and undergrad, this time as a fly on the wall.
> >>>>>This comes in handy as an academic advisor. I don't have to
> >>>>>try to speak their language, because I comprehend it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>       My only response to this is an indefinite pronoun.
> >>>>

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 20:27:36 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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Betty wrote:

> At 09:18 PM 3/2/2003 -0500, alyce cresap wrote:
>
>> Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>> >
>> > Alyce is no more an eccentric than bonniev a hermit.
>> > (whatever the word is, I forget.)
>> >
>> Spoil sport. I was revelling in my eccentricity.
>
>
> You can be eccentric, Alyce. I don't know why rashmi thinks you aren't
> except for maybe your political views.
>


        Yeah.  Rashmi's been very negative lately.  She needs to
improve her karma.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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In a message dated 3/2/2003 8:12:47 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< This fact leapt right past me. Happy birthday, Richard.

alyce
 >>

Same here, and also wishing you a great day, whenever it's going to be
celebrated.
Theo

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>Alyce is no more an eccentric than bonniev a hermit.
>(whatever the word is, I forget.)
>-rashmi

Recluse.   Where are you staying Saturday night of SnowBash??


    --bonniev

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>But I do agree that Bonnie is not
>a recluse--I am more of a recluse than Bonnie is.
>Karen

What??!!!   You are a party girl.


    --bonniev

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Betty wrote:
>
> You can be eccentric, Alyce.

Thanks. I know I am.

alyce

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:43:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:38:33 PM, bonniev wrote:
>>But I do agree that Bonnie is not
>>a recluse--I am more of a recluse than Bonnie is.
>>Karen

> What??!!!   You are a party girl.

I am? I spend very little time talking to other people--so much
so that when my housemate arrived, it was a noticeable struggle
to make conversation.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:34:23 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Betty wrote:

>>Too narrow. And I no longer wear such items. They sound gorgeous.
>
>What exactly sounds gorgeous about them from her description?

Their appearance - what else?

Bethany

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At 09:35 PM 3/2/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
>>Alyce is no more an eccentric than bonniev a hermit.
>>(whatever the word is, I forget.)
>>-rashmi
>
>Recluse.   Where are you staying Saturday night of SnowBash??

Oh, get the room with the hot tub in the bedroom!

Betty

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>>Recluse.   Where are you staying Saturday night of SnowBash??
>
>Oh, get the room with the hot tub in the bedroom!
>Betty

I don't even remember the name of that motel.  Not that I would get that
room.  What a hoot.  I wonder if love, Judith and her Paul are even
coming.  No one seems to be talking much about SnowBash and it is less than
a week away.  Where's Adam?


    --bonniev

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: eccentric
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>         Yeah.  Rashmi's been very negative lately.  She needs to
> improve her karma.

Snowbash will help in this, I'm sure!

--Adam, who can't believe it's less than a week away
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:54:03 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
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02003-03-02 | Ann Borkin <aborkin@RAHUL.NET> writes:
> On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Ann Borkin wrote:
> > On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > >
> > > I already heard it on the male version of The View ... you know
> > > the show I am talking about?
> > No . . .
>
> But I searched and found:
>
> Let The View Make Over Your Man
> Is your man's sense of style so embarrassing that you hate going out in
> public? If so, you may like our segment idea: helping turn your drab,
> outdated boyfriend into the man you've always wanted!
> Send us his color picture and a letter stating why you think your
> boyfriend is perfect for us. Include your name, address and home phone
> number. Send your pictures by November 5th (sorry the pictures will not be
> returned) to Make Over Your Man, The View, 320 West 66th Street, NY, NY
> 10023.
> - - - - -
> Evidently a variation of love and transform.

That's not what I am talking about. There is a program modelled on the
View (obviously) but it's all guys. If you are trying to fight a hangover
and switch on the TV in the morning to see the time, temperature and any
possible outrage that we are all running scared from, you might catch it.
Last I saw it, it was just in time to see some ch*k prancing around in
lameass pants, and one of the guys theorized it must be popular because
of like a general militaristic ethos, or something. Not that I had seen
anything "military" about the pants. But fascinating as it was, I could
not really stay to take another look at those stupid PANTS, so I left.
That show is full of fresh pimp juice not from concentrate.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 20:58:26 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: eccentric
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:54:03 -0500
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> I don't even remember the name of that motel.  Not that I would get that
> room.  What a hoot.  I wonder if love, Judith and her Paul are even
> coming.  No one seems to be talking much about SnowBash and it is
> less than
> a week away.  Where's Adam?

I'm here! Yes, LJ&HP are coming, last I knew.

These two days have been exceptionally busy for me, so I've had to delete
about 400 Words-L messages unread.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
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            <Pine.LNX.4.44.0303020918520.16397-100000@mauve.rahul.net>
            <20030303003213.GC8324@pobox.com> <3E62A647.5F07467E@valstar.net>
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02003-03-02 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
> Karen Kay wrote:
> >
> > Pack rat.:)
>
> That I am.
>
> >A woman after Ligniere's heart.
>
> Send him up here. He can cook for me and teach me to have sensations
> over the palate, tongue, cheeks and throat.

Are you sure? I am *extremely* scared of male packrats. Something
wrong about them ...

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 20:56:19 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:54:03 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> That's not what I am talking about. There is a program modelled on the
> View (obviously) but it's all guys.

Is this the one with Dick Clark and Danny Bonaducci?

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:00:25 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Do men have pimp juice, too? Or is it gender-specific?

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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 >>  Where's Adam?

>I'm here! Yes, LJ&HP are coming, last I knew.

Great.  Who else is coming?  Where is everyone staying?   What's your phone
number?  What's your address?  Are you serving the dish?  Is Melanie coming?


    --bonniev

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: More on SnowBash
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:11:26 -0500
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> Great.  Who else is coming?  Where is everyone staying?   What's
> your phone number?  What's your address?  Are you serving the dish?  Is
> Melanie coming?

Let's see, y'all, LJ&HP, Emily and Dave (I think), Rashmi, Marieeber, Lisa,
and Melanie I believe are all due to attend. Yes, I'm serving The Dish, duh.
What else would be right and proper???

I'll backchannel you the other info.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:12:25 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
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02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:54:03 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > That's not what I am talking about. There is a program modelled on the
> > View (obviously) but it's all guys.
>
> Is this the one with Dick Clark and Danny Bonaducci?

Could be. I don't know their names. But Bonaducci is a cool name

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 21:18:02 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: eccentric
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Rita:

>         Yeah.  Rashmi's been very negative lately.  She needs to
>improve her karma.

C'mon, don't tell me you think Alyce is eccentric. No cats, for one.

I haven't been negative off-list but want to be contrary all the time
on words-l. Probably time for a list sabbatical.

Looking forward to SB,
-rashmi

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 21:19:23 2003
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: More on SnowBash
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>Let's see, y'all, LJ&HP, Emily and Dave (I think), Rashmi, Marieeber, Lisa,
>and Melanie I believe are all due to attend. Yes, I'm serving The Dish, duh.
>What else would be right and proper???
>--Adam

Also fitting and just.   Same dessert?  Maybe I'll even have some this year.


    --bonniev

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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bonniev:

>Recluse.   Where are you staying Saturday night of SnowBash??

Haven't made reservations yet. Probably at the usual place - where you
stayed last time. Too bad you can't make it this time.

I need to get moving on Bah Hahbuh reservations...

-rashmi


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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:19:01 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
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02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I think you would be a good candidate for "Married by America".

Thank you, thanks a lot. Like, getting voted out in round one, right?
I saw one episode of a similar show. Or I wasn't really looking, but
it was on a big screen, and some of my coworkers were actually bloody
watching with immense interest, and then they turn and tell me, HEY
LOOK SHE'S INDIAN! Then when I say, "out in round one", they take the
tone of "why do I have to be LIKE THAT". Yet, sure enough, a few minutes
pass and most of the ethnic sisters are out, ha ha ha ha ... So somebody
asks me how I knew this ... What's there to freakin KNOW about it? Is
it some kind of occult "knowledge" one has to meditate on to acquire?
Jeeze!

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: More on SnowBash
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:20:43 -0500
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> Also fitting and just.   Same dessert?  Maybe I'll even have some
> this year.

Yes, La Fiorentina's tiramisu will be dessert, but maybe I'll get Something
Else Just For You. Everything they have is terrific. Is there any kind of
Italian pastry you don't like?

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 21:26:10 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:21:54 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 9:12:25 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:54:03 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>> > That's not what I am talking about. There is a program modelled on the
>> > View (obviously) but it's all guys.
>>
>> Is this the one with Dick Clark and Danny Bonaducci?

> Could be. I don't know their names. But Bonaducci is a cool name

They perch their butts on stools for most of the show, if that's
the one I'm thinking of. They have terrible posture.

Anyway, it is WAY lamer than The View.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 21:27:19 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:23:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 9:13:40 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> C'mon, don't tell me you think Alyce is eccentric. No cats, for one.

HEY!

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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> >         Yeah.  Rashmi's been very negative lately.  She needs to
> > improve her karma.

>Snowbash will help in this, I'm sure!

Yes! I always come back from SB feeling all warm and fuzzy.
Everything's all right with the world etc.

>--Adam, who can't believe it's less than a week away

Me too. Can't wait to see everyone.

-rashmi

_________________________________________________________________
MSN 8 helps eliminate e-mail viruses. Get 2 months FREE*.
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 21:31:01 2003
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>Yes, La Fiorentina's tiramisu will be dessert, but maybe I'll get Something
>Else Just For You. Everything they have is terrific. Is there any kind of
>Italian pastry you don't like?     --Adam

I didn't pass on it last year because I don't like that.  I was just sort
of full.  I'll eat anything.  Or almost anything.  Clyde married me young
and trained me to appreciate food.

Oops.  I just remembered who I am talking to.   Alright, I'm a fussy
eater.  But don't let that change your behavior.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 21:32:11 2003
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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 21:27:54 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
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02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Sunday, March 2, 2003, 7:59:46 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> >> Thousands of jobs for whom? Other Indians?
>
> > For everyone, I assume, but then, as I said, I slept through it.
>
> Well... I've seen too much of the Indian Mafia, I guess. I don't
> believe the jobs are for everyone.

So, it just happens not to be the Russian mafia, or the Filipino
mafia etc ... puh! What's your point? I saw one such report many
years ago on some technology channel. Of course it started with
the Hotmail guy--granted that was a genuine "dotcom success" in
a flood of fake successes but come on--and then it went on with
a bunch of other Indian guys trying to pursue the American Dream
etc ... To a man they were sincere, modest, from humble beginnings
and with a beatific smile that made you puke ... come ON! How could
nobody detect the immense miasma of FAKE coming out of that, I
couldn't imagine. However, that's beside the point, which is that
I would like to flame Karen for whining in a particularly illogical
and insulting way.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 21:32:55 2003
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>>Recluse.   Where are you staying Saturday night of SnowBash??
>
>Haven't made reservations yet. Probably at the usual place - where you
>stayed last time. Too bad you can't make it this time.

Wow.  That almost sounds like a snide dis-invitation.   I am, in fact,
coming to SnowBash along with my better half.  I'd even make reservations
if I could only remember the name of the place.  Or if someone would tell me.

>I need to get moving on Bah Hahbuh reservations...
>-rashmi

Indeed.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 21:34:53 2003
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02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Sunday, March 2, 2003, 9:12:25 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > 02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:54:03 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >> > That's not what I am talking about. There is a program modelled on the
> >> > View (obviously) but it's all guys.
> >>
> >> Is this the one with Dick Clark and Danny Bonaducci?
>
> > Could be. I don't know their names. But Bonaducci is a cool name
>
> They perch their butts on stools for most of the show, if that's
> the one I'm thinking of. They have terrible posture.

That's them. I think it's just preparation for some posture expert
to come on the show.

> Anyway, it is WAY lamer than The View.

Oh, definitely. The View is arresting, elegant and full of vitality.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Sun Mar  2 21:35:46 2003
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02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Do men have pimp juice, too?

Excellent back-formation, K-R-N. Take back the juice!

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: eccentric
Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:35:34 -0500
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> Wow.  That almost sounds like a snide dis-invitation.   I am, in fact,
> coming to SnowBash along with my better half.  I'd even make reservations
> if I could only remember the name of the place.  Or if someone
> would tell me.

It's the Quality Inn (I *think*) on Riverdale Street, West Springfield.
That's where y'all stayed last year.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Turnaround
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 03:36:10 +0000
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Betty:

> >-rashmi, perplexed or senile, you decide

>Who cares? We love you anyway.

Thanks, BB. I'm touched.

>Have you had an open house at your condo yet?

No. I never got around to it. Most of my friends came
in small groups and checked out the place. Maybe in the
spring. Maybe not.

Did your son have an open house at his new place?

-rashmi

-rashmi

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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 9:27:54 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> a bunch of other Indian guys trying to pursue the American Dream
> etc ... To a man they were sincere, modest, from humble beginnings
> and with a beatific smile that made you puke ... come ON! How could
> nobody detect the immense miasma of FAKE coming out of that, I
> couldn't imagine.

People don't seem to have!

> However, that's beside the point, which is that I would like to
> flame Karen for whining in a particularly illogical and
> insulting way.

I am horribly hurt. You'll have to beg me to let you take me to
Charlie Trotter's.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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At 03:36 AM 3/3/2003 +0000, Rashmi Murthy wrote:

>Did your son have an open house at his new place?

No, he had us all over for a paint party though. He did invite the
grandparents and us for  breakfast.

Betty

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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 9:29:56 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> 02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> They perch their butts on stools for most of the show, if that's
>> the one I'm thinking of. They have terrible posture.

> That's them. I think it's just preparation for some posture expert
> to come on the show.

I don't think so.

>> Anyway, it is WAY lamer than The View.

> Oh, definitely. The View is arresting, elegant and full of vitality.

I don't think that. But it is often mildly funny. I liked
watching Barbara Walters be called a slut.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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bonniev:

>Wow.  That almost sounds like a snide dis-invitation.   I am, in fact,
>coming to SnowBash along with my better half.  I'd even make reservations
>if I could only remember the name of the place.  Or if someone would tell
>me.

Man, I'm on a foot-in-mouth roll tonight! Sorry, I had no idea you
were coming. I'm delighted that you and Clyde are going to be
there!!  I can't remember the name of the place - I'll look it up and
get back to you.

-rashmi

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bonniev:

>Wow.  That almost sounds like a snide dis-invitation.   I am, in fact,
>coming to SnowBash along with my better half.

Don't know how I missed that you and Clyde would be at SB.
Did you talk about this on the list? How long a drive is it from
BH to Springfield?

-rashmi

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At 10:00 PM 3/2/2003 -0500, bonniev wrote:
> >>  Where's Adam?
>
>>I'm here! Yes, LJ&HP are coming, last I knew.
>
>Great.  Who else is coming?  Where is everyone staying?   What's your phone
>number?  What's your address?  Are you serving the dish?  Is Melanie coming?

Are y'all going to see Alyce again?  Take her fattening pimp juice stuff.

Betty

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Karen:

> > C'mon, don't tell me you think Alyce is eccentric. No cats, for one.

>HEY!

Hey yourself. Having a cat (or three) doesn't make one eccentric. But
in order for women of a certain age to be labelled eccentric cats are
necessary.

-rashmi



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Date: Sun, 2 Mar 2003 22:39:22 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: eccentric
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Sunday, March 2, 2003, 10:29:49 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
> Karen:
>> > C'mon, don't tell me you think Alyce is eccentric. No cats, for one.

>>HEY!

> Hey yourself. Having a cat (or three) doesn't make one eccentric. But
> in order for women of a certain age to be labelled eccentric cats are
> necessary.

I don't think so, really. I think Alyce's collections qualify
her. In a pleasant way.

One of my friends is being very funny about me not naming the
cat. She sent me e-mail saying "Well, you know, some people don't
name their animals because they are afraid of losing the animal."
I said I know that some people are that way--but I just don't
feel a need to name the cat. She told me I'd need a name for the
vet. I told her they could call it Cat. So then she sent me
e-mail saying that the cat seems to be a good companion for me.
And I sent her e-mail back saying that I think of the cat the
same way as I think of the plants in my yard, not as a companion.
She finally gave up and made up her own name for the cat.

I think I'm unlikely to become That Kind of eccentric woman of a
certain age.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:20:20 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: ::sigh::
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>HAR ... it's time to move on, this "dungeon" has become just another
>way-wacky spot on the WILD SF BEAT.

No shit, Sherlock.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:38:58 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Natalie Maynor wrote: time left on
>>
>>  I didn't mean you necessarily should sell them on e-bay.  I just meant
>>  that that might give an idea of whether somebody might like to have
>>  them.
>
>I'm sure that many women still wear them. I have heard that men find
>them sexy, but I don't know that from personal experience, of course.

"Of course"?

Janet

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In a message dated 3/2/2003 6:39:30 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< Yes. Waste not, want not. That is why I have so much stuff. I cannot
> dispose of perfectly good things. And for that you may call me mutant.
 >>

I guess I'm mutant too, *old* habits are impossible to get rid of, too!
Theo

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In a message dated 3/2/2003 6:55:56 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< There was a segment on 60 Minutes tonight on Indian entrepreneurs who
have created thousnads of jobs in the US because of their fine technical
skills, and I fell asleep and missed it.
 >>

I didn't miss it, and I wondered what my friend, who has a degree from MIT
would have thought of it, but he never watches 60 Minutes, so I'll never
know. He DOES boast of that degree though.
The segment about their previous education was fascinating to me too, because
our highschool final exam in Holland takes all day too, and it reminded me of
it. I was one of the six who passed out of 16 students. I'm NOT boasting,
just reporting! ;-)
Theo

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:22:01 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Turnaround
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>We invited our next door neighbors over tonight
>for cocktails and talk.  Nice people.  Former
>businessman, still sharp.  Staunch democrats,
>both of them.  In fact our gettogethers in past
>few years were sometimes difficult, but always
>manageable, through the Clinton years, the
>election, the Bush years.  Civil, all of us, no
>matter where the conversation went.
>
>But tonight they surprised us out of our socks.
>No criticism of Bush (for the first time ever).
>Quiet recounting of why we must go the way
>we are going, the neighbor having a longer
>memory than mine of events in the past
>and his own theories about what will happen
>if we don't make the move.
>
>In other words, they favor the war and think
>Bush is doing well.  They distrust the UN,
>from things we've seen in the past.

Very interesting. I had dinner tonight with my friend Don, a retired
Marine and the most politically conservative person I know IRL. One
exact quote: "For the first time in my life, I'm feeling ashamed to
be a Republican."

He says he'll go if they call him, but reluctantly, and he's
certainly not going to volunteer.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:26:14 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Marie Ascher wrote:
>>  >What are official pantyhose?
>>
>>  Hose connected to panties...
>
>As opposed to using a garterbelt or girdle?  I haven't even seen such
>items in at least thirty years now.

I guess this is sort of a retro-WLM: at my friend Paula's birthday
party last night (a sleepover in Calistoga, very pleasant) we were
all discussing how glad we were to have seen the last of such items.

Although garterbelts still have some currency as lingerie, and
girdles seem to be enjoying a renaissance as Boomers age.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:27:42 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>
>>  As opposed to using a garterbelt or girdle?  I haven't even seen such
>>  items in at least thirty years now.
>
>In Berkeley the other day, in the highly respectable and relatively
>upscale shopping area on Fourth Street, I heard a woman ask a clerk for
>the kind of hose you use a garterbelt to keep up.  That is, she had asked
>for something I hadn't paid attention to, and then she had to explain what
>she meant, and I heard that part.  (I didn't stay around for the answer,
>being discreet, privacy-respecting and mildly titill^^^ shocked.)

What an odd place to look for such items. You can buy them in various
colors and styles in any halfway decent erotic boutique or lingerie
store. Nordstrom has a nice selection too. But I'd never go searching
on Fourth Street.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:30:13 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Cannibalism hits California in wake of rising gas prices
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>Sunday, March 2, 2003, 11:43:53 AM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
>>   From another list, a news photo of gas prices in Menlo Park (local to us,
>>  coincidentally):
>
>Jeeze Louise. Now I know why I moved to Texas. Gas is almost $1
>cheaper here.

That's pretty high, even for here. The cheaper stations are running
about $1.99-$2.05; the more expensive ones are up around $2.20. I saw
$1.97 in Hayward today but unfortunately I'd just filled up an hour
before.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:33:31 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
In-reply-to: <200303021645.18PE58T23NZFnx0@emu>
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>Let The View Make Over Your Man
>Is your man's sense of style so embarrassing that you hate going out in
>public? If so, you may like our segment idea: helping turn your drab,
>outdated boyfriend into the man you've always wanted!
>Send us his color picture and a letter stating why you think your
>boyfriend is perfect for us. Include your name, address and home phone
>number. Send your pictures by November 5th (sorry the pictures will not be
>returned) to Make Over Your Man, The View, 320 West 66th Street, NY, NY
>10023.

I had a *much* better idea when I was living in Sacramento: a
gay/straight exchange program. You send a busful of straight
Sacramento men to SF and send back a busful of gay San Francisco men.
Result: Sacramento develops a modicum of taste, and San Francisco
women finally get laid.

Janet

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:35:50 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
In-reply-to: <200303021703.18PEmy4p13NZFji0@eagle>
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>On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, alyce cresap wrote:
>
>>I have some beautiful pointy stilettosh shoes, not that I'll ever be
>>able to wear them again. But they are so beautiful and were so expensive
>>that I never could stand to dispose of them. If anyone wears a 10AA, see
>  >me.
>
>Too narrow. And I no longer wear such items. They sound gorgeous.

I just purchased a gorgeous pair of boots with 4" heels, the highest
I've worn in a decade or more. I wore them for that debacle at Wicked
City the other night. They look extremely hot, even on plump and
aging legs.

The biggest problem is that there's a steep ramp that leads down from
the front door in this place and it's practically impossible to
navigate in heels. Also, by the time I finished teaching the class, I
wound up taking the boots off and walking to the car in my stocking
feet (which felt like they'd been bastinadoed).

Janet

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:37:32 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Betty wrote:
>
>>  At 07:53 PM 3/2/2003 -0500, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
>>
>>>  On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, alyce cresap wrote:
>>>
>>>  >I have some beautiful pointy stilettosh shoes, not that I'll ever be
>>>  >able to wear them again. But they are so beautiful and were so expensive
>>>  >that I never could stand to dispose of them. If anyone wears a 10AA, see
>>>  >me.
>>>
>>>  Too narrow. And I no longer wear such items. They sound gorgeous.
>>
>>
>>  What exactly sounds gorgeous about them from her description?
>
>         I'll bet Janet could find a use for them.

Not on *my* feet. Maybe certain fellows of my acquaintance <pondering>...

Janet
8-1/2W

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:40:19 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>02003-03-02 | alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET> writes:
>>  Karen Kay wrote:
>>  >
>>  > Pack rat.:)
>>
>>  That I am.
>>
>>  >A woman after Ligniere's heart.
>>
>>  Send him up here. He can cook for me and teach me to have sensations
>>  over the palate, tongue, cheeks and throat.
>
>Are you sure? I am *extremely* scared of male packrats. Something
>wrong about them ...

Again: No shit Sherlock.

Janet
still trying to figure out
what to do with about 40 boxes
of Jaystuff in my old garage

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 00:46:14 2003
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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:41:29 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>>  Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:54:03 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>>  > That's not what I am talking about. There is a program modelled on the
>>  > View (obviously) but it's all guys.
>>
>>  Is this the one with Dick Clark and Danny Bonaducci?
>
>Could be. I don't know their names. But Bonaducci is a cool name

Bonaduce, I think.

My friend Mo won the "Best Bitch" award from Joe Bob Briggs for her
role in a movie starring Danny Bonaduce. It was sort of a prototype
for Natural Born Killers, except tacky.

Janet

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In a message dated 3/2/2003 9:30:10 PM, rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<< Hey yourself. Having a cat (or three) doesn't make one eccentric. But
in order for women of a certain age to be labelled eccentric cats are
necessary.
 >>

I'm safe. Not only am I of a *certain* age, but I do have a cat too!
Theo

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 00:42:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 12:41:29 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:

>>02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>>>  Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:54:03 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>>>  > That's not what I am talking about. There is a program modelled on the
>>>  > View (obviously) but it's all guys.
>>>
>>>  Is this the one with Dick Clark and Danny Bonaducci?
>>
>>Could be. I don't know their names. But Bonaducci is a cool name

> Bonaduce, I think.

Thank you.

I'm listening to a Sue Grafton-on-mp3 and she's going on about
pantyhose.

> My friend Mo won the "Best Bitch" award from Joe Bob Briggs for her
> role in a movie starring Danny Bonaduce. It was sort of a prototype
> for Natural Born Killers, except tacky.

LOL.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:50:52 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
In-reply-to: <200303022242.18PJEA3H23NZFl40@penguin>
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>  > My friend Mo won the "Best Bitch" award from Joe Bob Briggs for her
>>  role in a movie starring Danny Bonaduce. It was sort of a prototype
>>  for Natural Born Killers, except tacky.
>
>LOL.

http://us.imdb.com/Title?0106254

Janet
(Mo's role was "Vezna")

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 01:37:37 -0600
From: Sylvia Edwards <s.words@pop.mindspring.com>
Reply-To: s.words@mindspring.com
Organization: S.words
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: What's the deal here
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Peter Kaminski wrote:
>
> Sylvia Edwards writes,
>
> >I type in www.google.com and end up with http://hanmire.com/  AND a long
> >wait to load.
>
> Sounds like something's been hijacked: your search settings, your upstream
> link, your computer...

Thank you all for checking this out.  Pete was right; something was
hijacked.  I restarted the computer and then could not get back online
for hours.  After three additional restarts and modem checks, I was back
in business.  AND Google was right where it belonged.

Being sent to hanmire was happening because something on my system went haywire.

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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> >Have you had an open house at your condo yet?
>
> No. I never got around to it. Most of my friends came

Why did I think it was a house, not a condo?  I thought I remembered
something about yardwork.  (I realize that condos can have some grassy
areas, of course.)  I think we need pictures.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 05:50:54 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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        Oh, well then.  Carry on.

Carolyn Ostrander wrote:

> OK, I get it.
> But please remember the context, which was that doing work to
> understand pop culture could have as a goal trying to "understand
> kids" or hang with gen-xers.  My reply was, I don't feel a need
> for that. I've been through one adolescence on my own, and a
> second as a very intent observer (my job to put the exact
> speech on my hands and the tone of  voice on my face), not to
> mention parenting adolescents, and don't see a reason to
> act as though "speaking teen" will make me one of "them".
>
> It wasn't me that drew demarcations!
> clo
>
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>
>
>>02003-03-02 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
>>
>>>Ah, but I'm just a rebounder-to-be.
>>>
>>Nice save!
>>
>>
>
>>I'd like to know the reason for being a "serious student of pop culture".
>>If you don't like it right off the bat, not much is gained by developing
>>a taste for it. If you are doing it to learn something out of it, I believe
>>the returns are very meager. If you are doing it to "understand kids",
>>or maybe hang with gen-xers, or whatever, it won't work. This is what I
>>think. So why do it?
>>
>
>
>
> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Sunday, March 2, 2003, 8:06:35 PM, Rita Chapman wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>       This sounds condescending.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>What part, precisely? I mean... how can giving them room to do
>>>their thing be condescending?
>>>
>>        As if they were aliens or something.  I mean, aren't they
>>people?  Isn't everyone on their own path?
>>
>>
>>>>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
>>>>>I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
>>>>>know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
>>>>>for most to be ok with me.
>>>>>clo
>>>>>
>>>>>Rita Chapman wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>ps. Teens and I are mutually pretty transparent. It may be the
>>>>>>>fact that when I started to interpret for the deaf, I began in
>>>>>>>8th grade and essentially went through a second round of junior
>>>>>>>high, high school and undergrad, this time as a fly on the wall.
>>>>>>>This comes in handy as an academic advisor. I don't have to
>>>>>>>try to speak their language, because I comprehend it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>      My only response to this is an indefinite pronoun.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 05:57:41 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: .
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

>> Betty wrote:
>>
>>>  At 07:53 PM 3/2/2003 -0500, Bethany K. Dumas wrote:
>>>
>>>>  On Sun, 2 Mar 2003, alyce cresap wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  >I have some beautiful pointy stilettosh shoes, not that I'll ever be
>>>>  >able to wear them again. But they are so beautiful and were so
>>>> expensive
>>>>  >that I never could stand to dispose of them. If anyone wears a
>>>> 10AA, see
>>>>  >me.
>>>>
>>>>  Too narrow. And I no longer wear such items. They sound gorgeous.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>  What exactly sounds gorgeous about them from her description?
>>
>>
>>         I'll bet Janet could find a use for them.
>
>
> Not on *my* feet. Maybe certain fellows of my acquaintance <pondering>...
>


        Exactly.

        Shoot.  I woke up with a big bruise on my cheek, and I don't
know where it came from.  Hope I can cover it up with
make-up.  Bleh!



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 05:59:02 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: eccentric
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> Rita:
>
>>         Yeah.  Rashmi's been very negative lately.  She needs to
>> improve her karma.
>
>
> C'mon, don't tell me you think Alyce is eccentric. No cats, for one.


        No, she's too with-it.  Cats have nothing to do with it.


> I haven't been negative off-list but want to be contrary all the time
> on words-l. Probably time for a list sabbatical.


        But crankiness is more fun.  Sometimes I read Steve's and
Neal's blogs one after the other and pretend it's the early
90's.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:00:31 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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Rita Chapman:
=
=
=         But crankiness is more fun.  Sometimes I read Steve's and
= Neal's blogs one after the other and pretend it's the early
= 90's.
=

http://coldspringshops.blogspot.com/
http://peacetreefarm.com/weblog.php

(I was going to ask, but decided I could probably figure it out
for myself)

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Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
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In a message dated 3/2/2003 6:55:56 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< There was a segment on 60 Minutes tonight on Indian entrepreneurs who
have created thousnads of jobs in the US because of their fine technical
skills, and I fell asleep and missed it.
 >>

One of the guys on the show was named Murthy. Any relation, Rashmi?

/Jim

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In a message dated 03/03/2003 12:38:37 AM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
Janet
still trying to figure out
what to do with about 40 boxes
of Jaystuff in my old garage

>>

Garage sale?  Goodwill?

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 08:22:53 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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>Don't know how I missed that you and Clyde would be at SB.
>Did you talk about this on the list? How long a drive is it from
>BH to Springfield?      -rashmi

Well, we didn't exactly announce it.  Nor did we say we weren't coming,
however.  Clyde did warn Adam, back channel.    We're figuring it is about
a six hour drive.   We'll come down Saturday morning, spend that night in
West Springfield, party, have breakfast with the group, and then drive back
as far as Portland where we will spend Sunday night.  Then back home to the
frozen tundra on Monday after a stop at the Portland Public Market and
maybe Freeport.

We've been speculating if you'all meeting Clyde will increase participation
at Acadiafest or the opposite.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 07:32:53 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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> > in order for women of a certain age to be labelled eccentric cats are
> > necessary.   --Rashmi
>
>I think I'm unlikely to become That Kind of eccentric woman of a
>certain age.     --Karen

I used to think that I might become one of those.  But already I wouldn't
mind lessening our herd of three down to one.  I figure I'll be 72 when our
youngest cat dies.   At that point, I think I'll adopt an elderly cat left
behind by its owner's death.  Kittens and adolescent cats are just too
energetic.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 07:52:08 2003
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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: eccentric
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= youngest cat dies.   At that point, I think I'll adopt an elderly cat left
= behind by its owner's death.  Kittens and adolescent cats are just too
= energetic.
=
=
=     --bonniev

Even Murphy scares the living daylights out of me now and again
by racing at top speed from the first floor up to the third
without a pause.  When he did it yesterday I was standing nearly
in his path in the kitchen.  Not bad for 14.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 08:37:47 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:56:56 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
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Evelyn Duncan:
= In a message dated 03/03/2003 12:38:37 AM Central Standard Time,
= verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
=
= <<
= Janet
= still trying to figure out
= what to do with about 40 boxes
= of Jaystuff in my old garage
=
= >>
=
= Garage sale?  Goodwill?
=

E-Bay!

When I moved here, I sold a bunch of stuff.  I forget if I put an
ad somewhere or what it was I did.  But a couple of women came by
and checked out the booty and said they'd be glad to come back
and relieve me of anything I didn't sell.   I left them a sheet
out in the carport stacked full of stuff, while I went off to
school one day, and poof.  I think they were stocking a second
hand store.  Best story of the whole ordeal was that I got more
selling my kitchen table and chairs than I paid for it second
hand.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 08:37:47 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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>Are y'all going to see Alyce again?  Take her fattening pimp juice stuff.
>Betty

Not us, I'm afraid.   Wrong direction.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 09:07:27 2003
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    Nine of the eleven British "human shields" have left Baghad, citing
concerns for their safety.

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/061/world/Some_British_human_shields_fle:.shtml

    <insert gut-busting fx here>

    Oh, and they were shocked, SHOCKED!, to discover that they were
being used for propaganda purposes.

JMW

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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Good Morning


    I'm sorry to be so caulking ignorant.

How did it go?  I assume you have figured out whatever you needed to figure out.
Rehearsal went well last night  - a little confusing, as always - but it will be a fun
performance tonight I think.

How are you today?



> I re-caulk over old caulk without removing the old caulk first?
>
> Karen
> "I am, we are,
> Who can distinguish us?"
>  --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 09:26:10 2003
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Sorry all.  This was supposed to be backchannel.  Good thing I didn't say anything too
revealing.

:-)

BrP




> Good Morning
>
>
>     I'm sorry to be so caulking ignorant.
>
> How did it go?  I assume you have figured out whatever you needed to figure out.
> Rehearsal went well last night  - a little confusing, as always - but it will be a fun
> performance tonight I think.
>
> How are you today?
>
>
>
> > I re-caulk over old caulk without removing the old caulk first?
> >
> > Karen
> > "I am, we are,
> > Who can distinguish us?"
> >  --Deena Metzger

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oops... the last user didn't close their yahoo session...  but I was sure to
close mine.

;-P


----- Original Message -----
From: "Natalie Maynor" <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
Newsgroups: lists.words-l
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 12:13 PM
Subject: Re: Greetings from atop Stowe, Vermont


> So did you shove Joslin into the snow and steal his account?
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:23:56 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 7:27:28 AM, bonniev wrote:
> I used to think that I might become one of those.  But already I wouldn't
> mind lessening our herd of three down to one.  I figure I'll be 72 when our
> youngest cat dies.

How long do cats live?

>    At that point, I think I'll adopt an elderly cat left
> behind by its owner's death.

Or abandonment due to divorce...

>   Kittens and adolescent cats are just too
> energetic.

Yes, that was part of my thinking in taking this one.

No one knows how old this cat is, so I can't figure out her
death. She's at least 10. And outdoor cats don't live as long as
indoor cats.

Maybe I'll put her dead body on the flower beds like I did my
wreath.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 09:32:47 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 09:28:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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" Maria Ermanno, chairwoman of the Swedish Peace and Arbitration
Society, cited reports that Iraqi officials were arranging
transportation, accommodations and news conferences for the human
shields."

I heard this on NPR, as well. I can't believe that these people
are accepting favors from the government and then not
understanding that they are supporting Saddam.

I guess they think this is how American govt. works...

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Karen Kay wrote:

> I heard this on NPR, as well. I can't believe that these people
> are accepting favors from the government and then not
> understanding that they are supporting Saddam.

    It was obvious all along that they were more than a few fries short of a
Happy Meal.

JMW

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:43:23 -0500
From: Karen Kay <karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
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On Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:21:04 -0500, Paul R. Barfoot
<prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> wrote:
>Sorry all.  This was supposed to be backchannel.  Good thing I didn't say
>anything too revealing.

But now everyone knows you're caulking-ignorant!!!

Karen

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: eccentric
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Re Snowbash, what time do the festivities begin, and how does one get to
Adam's apartment. I'm sort of amazed -- according to mapquest, Springfield
will only be a 2 hour and 15 minute drive for me.

Looking forward to it.

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com





>From: bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM>
>Reply-To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: eccentric
>Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:22:53 -0500
>
>>Don't know how I missed that you and Clyde would be at SB.
>>Did you talk about this on the list? How long a drive is it from
>>BH to Springfield?      -rashmi
>
>Well, we didn't exactly announce it.  Nor did we say we weren't coming,
>however.  Clyde did warn Adam, back channel.    We're figuring it is about
>a six hour drive.   We'll come down Saturday morning, spend that night in
>West Springfield, party, have breakfast with the group, and then drive back
>as far as Portland where we will spend Sunday night.  Then back home to the
>frozen tundra on Monday after a stop at the Portland Public Market and
>maybe Freeport.
>
>We've been speculating if you'all meeting Clyde will increase participation
>at Acadiafest or the opposite.
>
>
>    --bonniev


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 09:50:10 2003
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In a message dated 03/03/2003 9:24:17 AM Central Standard Time,
Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:

<<
How long do cats live?


>>

Depends on the cat.  Brandy was 5 and a half when we had to put
him to sleep, but Siegi was 19 when she passed from a stroke.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:23:51 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Sort of. It doesn't seem quite as robust as a normal poolish (I
love this word; King Arthur taught it to me), but I think it's
enough.

Karen

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 10:27:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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This URL http://www.joejaworski.com/bread3.htm talks about making
chunky sourdough starter.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Title page standard
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:46:34 -0500
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Do any of you publishing types know if there is a standard for the contents
of a title page? An ANSI or NISO standard would be good, but I'm not finding
one generic enough -- I have one NISO standard for technical reports.

We want to put forth recommendations to our university communications office
-- who routinely puts out publications missing key bibliographic
information. It would be nice to have an authority on which to base our
recommendations.

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com




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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 11:56:14 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> I heard this on NPR, as well. I can't believe that these people
> are accepting favors from the government and then not
> understanding that they are supporting Saddam.

This will bolster Rumsfeld's claims that they are enemy combatants, I
guess. But it shows that they are probably not all suicidal.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:02:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 10:56:14 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I heard this on NPR, as well. I can't believe that these people
>> are accepting favors from the government and then not
>> understanding that they are supporting Saddam.

> This will bolster Rumsfeld's claims that they are enemy combatants, I
> guess.

Yes. I hadn't realized that they were accepting housing and
transportation from Saddam; this is pretty much a no-brainer.

>  But it shows that they are probably not all suicidal.

Yes.

They also had an interview with someone who had been forced to be
a human shield last time around. I didn't remember this at all,
so it was good to have the reminder of that history. (He felt
like Rumsfeld, and couldn't believe that people were doing it
willingly.)

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:03:57 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>In a message dated 03/03/2003 12:38:37 AM Central Standard Time,
>verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
><<
>Janet
>still trying to figure out
>what to do with about 40 boxes
>of Jaystuff in my old garage
>
>>>
>
>Garage sale?  Goodwill?

'Fraid not. He and I are just barely on speaking terms as it is.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:04:58 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Evelyn Duncan:
>= In a message dated 03/03/2003 12:38:37 AM Central Standard Time,
>= verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>=
>= <<
>= Janet
>= still trying to figure out
>= what to do with about 40 boxes
>= of Jaystuff in my old garage
>=
>= >>
>=
>= Garage sale?  Goodwill?
>=
>
>E-Bay!

If I felt like I could get rid of it, I'd hire someone with a pickup
to haul it all to the dump -- it's not like there's a lot of valuable
stuff in there. But I don't.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 11:25:41 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 12:21:05 -0500
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Indoor or outdoor?

In

alyce

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:22:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:16:48 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>Hire a truck and a couple of brawny men and have it all delivered
>>to his apartment.

> Oh -- you mean his 500 square foot studio on the 17th floor?

Yes.

Though I hope it's not a walk-up.:)

> The point is, I can't afford to do most of the things I feel like
> doing -- aside from the fact that I still care about him and hope to
> wind up friends someday, he *is* my lead author and the vice
> president of my board of directors.

Yeah.

> Moral: polyamory is easy; BDSM is easy; having a business connection
> to your SO is hard.

I feel your pain.

At least it's not a boat in your driveway.:)

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:55:02 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> Anyway, it is WAY lamer than The View.
>
> > Oh, definitely. The View is arresting, elegant and full of vitality.
>
> I don't think that. But it is often mildly funny. I liked
> watching Barbara Walters be called a slut.

That's FUNNY ... Barbara Walters is such a good sport when
she doesn't have to be a hard-assed journalist ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 12:03:33 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:59:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: For Bonnie
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:36:18 AM, bonniev wrote:
> Very interesting about the wax paper and the starter flakes.  I had never
> heard that.

Well, Ligniere's mother, as he says 'cooks like an angel', so I
wasn't surprised to find independent validation for her method.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:06:23 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>02003-03-02 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  I had a *much* better idea when I was living in Sacramento: a
>>  gay/straight exchange program. You send a busful of straight
>>  Sacramento men to SF and send back a busful of gay San Francisco men.
>>  Result: Sacramento develops a modicum of taste, and San Francisco
>  > women finally get laid.
>
>Gay men have taste?

What, you've never tasted one?

Janet

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:04:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:03:57 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:

>>In a message dated 03/03/2003 12:38:37 AM Central Standard Time,
>>verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>>
>><<
>>Janet
>>still trying to figure out
>>what to do with about 40 boxes
>>of Jaystuff in my old garage
>>
>>>>
>>
>>Garage sale?  Goodwill?

> 'Fraid not. He and I are just barely on speaking terms as it is.

Didn't you sell your old place?

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:06:36 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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>In a message dated 03/03/2003 9:24:17 AM Central Standard Time,
>Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:
>
><<
>How long do cats live?
>
>
>>>
>
>Depends on the cat.  Brandy was 5 and a half when we had to put
>him to sleep, but Siegi was 19 when she passed from a stroke.

I am coming to believe that Happy -- diabetes, chronic bladder
problems and all -- will outlive me by many years. Sort of "The Cat
Came Back," except mortality instead of geography.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:06:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:04:58 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> If I felt like I could get rid of it, I'd hire someone with a pickup
> to haul it all to the dump -- it's not like there's a lot of valuable
> stuff in there. But I don't.

Hire a truck and a couple of brawny men and have it all delivered
to his apartment.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 12:09:36 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:11:18 -0700
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Karen Kay wrote:

> Monday, March 3, 2003, 10:56:14 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> >> I heard this on NPR, as well. I can't believe that these people
> >> are accepting favors from the government and then not
> >> understanding that they are supporting Saddam.
>
> > This will bolster Rumsfeld's claims that they are enemy combatants, I
> > guess.
>
> Yes. I hadn't realized that they were accepting housing and
> transportation from Saddam; this is pretty much a no-brainer.

    You have it slightly reversed:  They were getting housing and transport
*because* they were supporting Saddam.
    Also notice the weaselly way in which the story is written - "SOME British
human shields..."  I'd call 9/11ths of anything "most" or "nearly all".

JMW

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:15:04 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:03:57 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>>In a message dated 03/03/2003 12:38:37 AM Central Standard Time,
>>>verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>>>
>>><<
>>>Janet
>>>still trying to figure out
>>>what to do with about 40 boxes
>>>of Jaystuff in my old garage
>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>>Garage sale?  Goodwill?
>
>>  'Fraid not. He and I are just barely on speaking terms as it is.
>
>Didn't you sell your old place?

No. We're still waiting for the final steps of the condo conversion,
although we're quite close. And then it looks like I'm probably going
to refinance it and lease-option it to my tenant, which is a Good
Idea for any number of reasons.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 12:11:35 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:
> >
> ><<
> >How long do cats live?

Both of mine lived to be 25.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:16:48 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:04:58 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>  If I felt like I could get rid of it, I'd hire someone with a pickup
>>  to haul it all to the dump -- it's not like there's a lot of valuable
>>  stuff in there. But I don't.
>
>Hire a truck and a couple of brawny men and have it all delivered
>to his apartment.

Oh -- you mean his 500 square foot studio on the 17th floor?

The point is, I can't afford to do most of the things I feel like
doing -- aside from the fact that I still care about him and hope to
wind up friends someday, he *is* my lead author and the vice
president of my board of directors.

Moral: polyamory is easy; BDSM is easy; having a business connection
to your SO is hard.

Janet

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Subject: Re: eccentric
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>How long do cats live?

Ours have lived about 17 years.

>  She's at least 10. And outdoor cats don't live as long as
>indoor cats.

That's on average.  If they don't get hit by a car in their first 10 years,
maybe they live a normal life span.

>Maybe I'll put her dead body on the flower beds like I did my
>wreath.      --Karen

Our wreath is still on the door, looking gorgeous.   Last year I took my
wreath to Hannah Duston.  I wonder if it is still there.  Probably not.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:18:49 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:11:18 AM, John Williams wrote:
>     You have it slightly reversed:  They were getting housing and transport
> *because* they were supporting Saddam.

Cite?

>     Also notice the weaselly way in which the story is written - "SOME British
> human shields..."  I'd call 9/11ths of anything "most" or "nearly all".

Of the British ones. Not all are British.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:19:14 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:11:35 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen@WORDWRITE.COM writes:
>> >
>> ><<
>> >How long do cats live?

> Both of mine lived to be 25.

Indoor or outdoor?

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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>Sort of. It doesn't seem quite as robust as a normal poolish (I
>love this word; King Arthur taught it to me), but I think it's
>enough.      --Karen

Good news.  It might now get more vigorous as you use it and feed it
regularly.  Want a good, simple sourdough bread recipe?


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:21:04 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:15:08 AM, bonniev wrote:
>>Maybe I'll put her dead body on the flower beds like I did my
>>wreath.      --Karen

> Our wreath is still on the door, looking gorgeous.

That's cuz you haven't had any 80-degree days.

Some of my neighbors still have wreaths, but they have GOT to be
fake.

I loved this wreath, Bonnie. Thanks again.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: ASCHER MARIE <MARIE_ASCHER@NYMC.EDU>
To: "'words-l@listserv.uga.edu'" <words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: FW: REPOST: Website redesign project manager
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Anyone here got the skills?

-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick Clancy [mailto:pclancy@NYAM.ORG]
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 10:46 AM
To: METRO-L
Subject: REPOST: Website redesign project manager

---
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formatting was garbled.
____________________________________________________________

NOAH Redesign Project Manager
Recruitment Posting
(rev 2-26-03;3-3-03 pc)

Posting Title: Senior Website Development Project Manager

Status: Full time temporary; possible conversion to fulltime regular.

Salary: To $40 per hour, DOE. No benefits offered unless converted to
regular status.

Start date: April 2003

Description: The New York Academy of Medicine is looking for an experienced,
hands-on web developer and project manager for re-design of the New York
Online Access to Health (NOAH) website (www.NOAH-HEALTH.org
<http://www.NOAH-HEALTH.org> ). NOAH provides access to high quality
full-text consumer health information in English and Spanish that is
accurate, timely, relevant and unbiased. The position is full time temporary
status for up to nine months, with the possibility of conversion to full
time regular position depending on funding and future project requirements.
During 2003 we will undertake the site's first major redesign with the
following goals:

* Update the site's structure and layout to improve navigation and
streamline access
* Update graphics, fonts, logos, color scheme, etc. to present consistent
branding and appearance
* Develop a template-based site layout to allow consistency of navigation
and appearance
* Implement a web-based content management system to accommodate multiple
contributors in various locations
* Develop a web-enabled database to support publications, forms, user
surveys, etc.
* Offer bi-lingual searching and indexing capability
* Improve ADA accessibility to disabled patrons
* Implement measurement and analysis of site traffic and usage

Requirements: The ideal candidate will have at least 5 years superior
hands-on web and database development skills as well as the demonstrated
ability to manage people, vendors, resources and budgets:

* Experience in developing complex, database driven websites including
development of databases, creating scripts for database queries, and
designing effective web interfaces to the database. NOAH environment is
Apache webserver, MySQL database, and PHP scripting (please furnish
portfolio URLs).
* Experience in web based content management systems, including selecting
and implementing a CMS, setting up CMS workflow and approvals, and designing
a template based website driven by CMS.
* Graphic design skills for guiding effective website appearance and
navigability.
* Experience in selecting and implementing effective search and indexing
tools as well as site traffic monitoring tools.
* Knowledge of ADA requirements and ability to design website to accommodate
disabled patrons.
* Experience in gathering stakeholder requirements, developing design
documents and managing technologists and vendors in delivering a final
product on time and within budget.
* A library background and familiarity with consumer public health
information is desirable.

To apply: Send resume and letter of application to

HR Director
The New York Academy of Medicine
1216 Fifth Avenue
New York, NY 10029
-or-
hr@nyam.org <mailto:hr@nyam.org>

The New York Academy of Medicine is an
Equal Employment Opportunity/Affirmative Action Employer
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 12:09:44 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:23:59 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:21:05 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> Indoor or outdoor?

> In

25 years is still a very long time. I wouldn't be sorry if this
cat lived for another 15 years.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:25:02 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:18:05 AM, bonniev wrote:
>>Sort of. It doesn't seem quite as robust as a normal poolish (I
>>love this word; King Arthur taught it to me), but I think it's
>>enough.      --Karen

> Good news.  It might now get more vigorous as you use it and feed it
> regularly.  Want a good, simple sourdough bread recipe?

Sure.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 09:30:45 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:16:48 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>>Hire a truck and a couple of brawny men and have it all delivered
>>>to his apartment.
>
>>  Oh -- you mean his 500 square foot studio on the 17th floor?
>
>Yes.

Can I send him the goddamn cat too??

Janet

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Very interesting about the wax paper and the starter flakes.  I had never
heard that.  I did make my first starter the way they suggest to capture
wild starter.  It was an East Tennessee sourdough.  It was fairly good.

>This URL http://www.joejaworski.com/bread3.htm talks about making
>chunky sourdough starter.        --Karen

    --bonniev

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02003-03-02 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> I had a *much* better idea when I was living in Sacramento: a
> gay/straight exchange program. You send a busful of straight
> Sacramento men to SF and send back a busful of gay San Francisco men.
> Result: Sacramento develops a modicum of taste, and San Francisco
> women finally get laid.

Gay men have taste?

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:58:14 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:30:45 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:16:48 AM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>>>Hire a truck and a couple of brawny men and have it all delivered
>>>>to his apartment.
>>
>>>  Oh -- you mean his 500 square foot studio on the 17th floor?
>>
>>Yes.

> Can I send him the goddamn cat too??

I don't see any problem with filling his 900 sq ft to the ceiling
with his stuff, but I don't think living beings, children or
animals, ought to involved. Sorry.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 12:09:49 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 11:59:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:55:02 AM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> >> Anyway, it is WAY lamer than The View.
>>
>> > Oh, definitely. The View is arresting, elegant and full of vitality.
>>
>> I don't think that. But it is often mildly funny. I liked
>> watching Barbara Walters be called a slut.

> That's FUNNY ... Barbara Walters is such a good sport when
> she doesn't have to be a hard-assed journalist ...

The funny part is that I *don't* think she's a good sport...

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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02003-03-02 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >
> >Are you sure? I am *extremely* scared of male packrats. Something
> >wrong about them ...
>
> Again: No shit Sherlock.

Sorry, I must have missed it the first time. You know, a truth
is not like a joke--you can tell it a second time with the same
effect. Why do you have to be LIKE THAT?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 12:09:50 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:01:08 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:57:36 AM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-02 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>> I had a *much* better idea when I was living in Sacramento: a
>> gay/straight exchange program. You send a busful of straight
>> Sacramento men to SF and send back a busful of gay San Francisco men.
>> Result: Sacramento develops a modicum of taste, and San Francisco
>> women finally get laid.

> Gay men have taste?

Paul knows NOTHING about shoes! I think you have a better sense
of style, Tushar. Does that mean you're more GAY[tm] than he is?

Who has the larger sausage?

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:17:10 -0600
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 12:15:54 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:55:02 AM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>> > 02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>>
>> >> >> Anyway, it is WAY lamer than The View.
>> >>
>> >> > Oh, definitely. The View is arresting, elegant and full of vitality.
>> >>
>> >> I don't think that. But it is often mildly funny. I liked
>> >> watching Barbara Walters be called a slut.
>>
>> > That's FUNNY ... Barbara Walters is such a good sport when
>> > she doesn't have to be a hard-assed journalist ...
>>
>> The funny part is that I *don't* think she's a good sport...

> Oh.

> LOL!

She's been on TV long enough she knows you don't scream at your
friends on TV, and it's fun watching her grit her teeth.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Sunday, March 2, 2003, 9:27:54 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > a bunch of other Indian guys trying to pursue the American Dream
> > etc ... To a man they were sincere, modest, from humble beginnings
> > and with a beatific smile that made you puke ... come ON! How could
> > nobody detect the immense miasma of FAKE coming out of that, I
> > couldn't imagine.
>
> People don't seem to have!

I made a very specific statement, and you are making a very general
one. I feel an impedance mismatch ...

> > However, that's beside the point, which is that I would like to
> > flame Karen for whining in a particularly illogical and
> > insulting way.
>
> I am horribly hurt. You'll have to beg me to let you take me to
> Charlie Trotter's.

Very well then!

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:06:47 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
Message-ID: <20030303180647.GD7510@pobox.com>
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02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >02003-03-02 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >> I had a *much* better idea when I was living in Sacramento: a
> >> gay/straight exchange program. You send a busful of straight
> >> Sacramento men to SF and send back a busful of gay San Francisco men.
> >> Result: Sacramento develops a modicum of taste, and San Francisco
> > > women finally get laid.
> >
> >Gay men have taste?
>
> What, you've never tasted one?

Why? The smell is terrible

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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I recuse myself from this thread


BrP



> >  > >Gay men have taste?
> >  >
> >  > What, you've never tasted one?
> >
> >Why? The smell is terrible
>
> I am *not* going to make a cheese joke. I am *not* going to make a
> cheese joke. I am *not* going to make a cheese joke.
>
> Janet
> strong-willed
> if filthy-minded

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:15:54 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:55:02 AM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > 02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>
> >> >> Anyway, it is WAY lamer than The View.
> >>
> >> > Oh, definitely. The View is arresting, elegant and full of vitality.
> >>
> >> I don't think that. But it is often mildly funny. I liked
> >> watching Barbara Walters be called a slut.
>
> > That's FUNNY ... Barbara Walters is such a good sport when
> > she doesn't have to be a hard-assed journalist ...
>
> The funny part is that I *don't* think she's a good sport...

Oh.

LOL!

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:11:36 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  >02003-03-02 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  >> I had a *much* better idea when I was living in Sacramento: a
>>  >> gay/straight exchange program. You send a busful of straight
>>  >> Sacramento men to SF and send back a busful of gay San Francisco men.
>>  >> Result: Sacramento develops a modicum of taste, and San Francisco
>>  > > women finally get laid.
>  > >
>  > >Gay men have taste?
>  >
>  > What, you've never tasted one?
>
>Why? The smell is terrible

I am *not* going to make a cheese joke. I am *not* going to make a
cheese joke. I am *not* going to make a cheese joke.

Janet
strong-willed
if filthy-minded

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 12:52:33 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:28:17 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
Message-ID: <20030303182817.GF7510@pobox.com>
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Paul knows NOTHING about shoes!

Excellent. Knowing anything about shoes is a character flaw. Just as
looking at people's hair and shoes is the definition of superficial.
I once stopped talking to a cabbie when he said he had a shoe shop
on Devon where I could get majorly fancy shoes which I could wear
to any wedding ... what "wedding"? Christ. They probably have gold
threads and mirrors ... ugh! Remember, Gandhi had neither hair nor
shoes. Whereas Hitler had both. Makes you think, huh!

> I think you have a better sense of style, Tushar. Does that mean
> you're more GAY[tm] than he is?

Lady, I am *writing* The Joy Of Gay Dining.

> Who has the larger sausage?

A GAY[tm] would have written this in a better way ... To conclude,
GAYs[tm] may have very little taste but WOMEN[tm] have, like, zero.

Str8 guys have the best style. And the best dancing skillz and sense
of humor

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Monday, March 3, 2003, 12:13:38 PM, Paul R. Barfoot wrote:
> I recuse myself from this thread

Because?

>> >  > >Gay men have taste?
>> >  >
>> >  > What, you've never tasted one?
>> >
>> >Why? The smell is terrible
>>
>> I am *not* going to make a cheese joke. I am *not* going to make a
>> cheese joke. I am *not* going to make a cheese joke.
>>
>> Janet
>> strong-willed
>> if filthy-minded




Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, March 3, 2003, 12:15:54 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > 02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> Monday, March 3, 2003, 11:55:02 AM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >> > 02003-03-02 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >>
> >> >> >> Anyway, it is WAY lamer than The View.
> >> >>
> >> >> > Oh, definitely. The View is arresting, elegant and full of vitality.
> >> >>
> >> >> I don't think that. But it is often mildly funny. I liked
> >> >> watching Barbara Walters be called a slut.
> >>
> >> > That's FUNNY ... Barbara Walters is such a good sport when
> >> > she doesn't have to be a hard-assed journalist ...
> >>
> >> The funny part is that I *don't* think she's a good sport...
>
> > Oh.
>
> > LOL!
>
> She's been on TV long enough she knows you don't scream at your
> friends on TV, and it's fun watching her grit her teeth.

Aha ...

ROFL!

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 10:34:09 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Str8 guys have the best style. And the best dancing skillz and sense
>of humor

And they're all afraid of commitment, too.

Please send some.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 12:52:33 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:41:18 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 12:34:09 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>Str8 guys have the best style. And the best dancing skillz and sense
>>of humor

> And they're all afraid of commitment, too.

Or they are committed elsewhere.

> Please send some.

> Janet

Karen

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:43:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 12:30:47 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> I made a very specific statement, and you are making a very general
> one. I feel an impedance mismatch ...

Does this mean if we touch that we will short out?

>> > However, that's beside the point, which is that I would like to
>> > flame Karen for whining in a particularly illogical and
>> > insulting way.
>>
>> I am horribly hurt. You'll have to beg me to let you take me to
>> Charlie Trotter's.

> Very well then!

PULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEE take me to
Charlie Trotter's!

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 12:52:34 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 12:44:42 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 12:28:17 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> 02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Paul knows NOTHING about shoes!

> Excellent. Knowing anything about shoes is a character flaw.

No, I think it's part of knowing about style.

> Lady, I am *writing* The Joy Of Gay Dining.

Oh, oh! Is this your coming out work?

> A GAY[tm] would have written this in a better way ... To conclude,
> GAYs[tm] may have very little taste but WOMEN[tm] have, like, zero.

That's what gays think...

> Str8 guys have the best style. And the best dancing skillz and sense
> of humor

Okay, then! Send one here!

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 13:09:48 2003
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02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >Str8 guys have the best style. And the best dancing skillz and sense
> >of humor
>
> And they're all afraid of commitment, too.

Oh right! I forgot ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 13:17:29 2003
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> Paul knows NOTHING about shoes!
>
> > Excellent. Knowing anything about shoes is a character flaw.
>
> No, I think it's part of knowing about style.

I will note that on my Palm Pilot ...

> > Lady, I am *writing* The Joy Of Gay Dining.
>
> Oh, oh! Is this your coming out work?

Coming out is for FAGS ...

> > A GAY[tm] would have written this in a better way ... To conclude,
> > GAYs[tm] may have very little taste but WOMEN[tm] have, like, zero.
>
> That's what gays think...

Oh these gays ... always thinking weird

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 13:27:20 2003
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In a message dated 3/3/2003 4:57:41 AM, rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<        Shoot.  I woke up with a big bruise on my cheek, and I don't
know where it came from.  Hope I can cover it up with
make-up.  Bleh!
 >>

I once woke up with a broken leg; never found an explanation, so consider
yourself lucky it's just a bruise !! :-) Theo

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-03-02 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
= > I had a *much* better idea when I was living in Sacramento: a
= > gay/straight exchange program. You send a busful of straight
= > Sacramento men to SF and send back a busful of gay San Francisco men.
= > Result: Sacramento develops a modicum of taste, and San Francisco
= > women finally get laid.
=
= Gay men have taste?

Who knew?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 13:49:32 2003
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Steph

 I finally saw Nert's picture of you all 'round the table.

Way cool!


BrP

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:46:55 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
Message-ID: <20030303204655.B23427@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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            <a05200f0bba894a148a08@[67.118.125.98]>
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= >
= >Gay men have taste?
=
= What, you've never tasted one?
=
= Janet

That would be flavour.

(where did that u come from?!)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 13:58:26 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:55:47 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: picture from A'dam
Message-ID: <20030303205547.C23427@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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=
=  I finally saw Nert's picture of you all 'round the table.
=
= Way cool!
=
=
= BrP

Good!  Then you're one up on me!  Has anyone got a scanner?

steph

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:04:04 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Turnaround
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 19:59:29 +0000
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Natalie:

>Why did I think it was a house, not a condo?  I thought I remembered
>something about yardwork.

I play fast and loose with terminology. It's a townhouse and I'm
responsible for all the yardwork and shovelling. I have an
end-unit so there's quite a bit of mowing.

>I think we need pictures.

Come to SnowBash. It's not too late.

Now, where did I put that camera...

-rashmi


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:05:32 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:00:52 +0000
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Jim:

>There was a segment on 60 Minutes tonight on Indian entrepreneurs who
>have created thousnads of jobs in the US because of their fine technical
>skills, and I fell asleep and missed it.

>One of the guys on the show was named Murthy. Any relation, Rashmi?

No relation. I didn't see the show but know who you're talking
about. He's India's answer to Bill Gates and richer than dirt.

-rashmi



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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:08:25 2003
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Natalie:
>> Octibbeha paid 4.60 to show.
> What does this mean?

It means she finished third, so people who bet
her to show (i.e., finish 1, 2, or 3) got back
their $2, plus winnings of $2.60.

I didn't see the race, being otherwise occupied
with w*rk and getting throws loaded on the float,
but from the results chart, it looks like she just
passed a bunch of tiring horses in the stretch.

Which is better than being one of the tiring horses
being passed in the stretch...

In any case, from looking at her running lines, she
seems to be a come-from-behinder, a racing style I
have always admired, much to my wallet's detriment.

Whirlaway was a stretch runner, too, I keep telling
myself.

--
Richard 1      but, but, nobody said it would be DANGEROUS!

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:09:39 2003
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In a message dated 03/03/2003 11:29:25 AM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:


Can I send him the goddamn cat too??



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------

You can send it to me if it needs a home.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:10:32 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: eccentric
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:06:00 +0000
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Rita:

> > C'mon, don't tell me you think Alyce is eccentric. No cats, for one.

>        No, she's too with-it.

Hah!

>         But crankiness is more fun.  Sometimes I read Steve's and
>Neal's blogs one after the other and pretend it's the early
>90's.

I still can't get over Steve's starry-eyed infatuation with blogs.

=====================================================================
Here's a recent funny from the blogworld: (Fanatical Apathy)

U.S. Secession From Earth Nearly Complete
Washington, Tuesday (FA wire) - With today's announcement that the
U.S. is willing to release oil reserves independently of its partners
in the International Energy Agency, the Bush administration acknowledged
that it was fast running out of international
agreements to renounce.

"We're way ahead of schedule," confided one State Department official,
"If you had told me during the inauguration that by this month we
would've already declared our independence from the UN, NATO, the
International Criminal Court, missile treaties, Kyoto, international
trade agreements, and the IEA, well, I would've called you a crazy dreamer!"

The pace may even be too quick, according to some Administration officials.
"Frankly, we're running out of things to renounce. And
with the elections still 20 months away, this creates a bit of a problem,"
said one Republican strategist. "Declaring independence
is the American way, and it plays really well with our support base. But
what's left?"

What indeed. The Bush administration seems split on how to deal
with this impending crisis. On one side are those, apparently
led by Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who believe that
the U.S. could further violate already-renounced agreements.
"Basically, we've buried 'em, but we can still spit on the
graves," said a Defense spokesman, "To use another metaphor
- we've driven by the U.N. and mooned 'em, but we haven't
stopped the pickup, turned around, gotten out, and beaten
'em with baseball bats. That's something to look forward to."

But there's another faction, led by top advisor Karl Rove,
which feels like simply declaring independence again from
already-renounced international accords simply doesn't go
far enough. "Bo-ring," said one highly-placed official,
"Been there, violated that. What we need is to get our
diplomatic asses in gear and negotiate some new treaties
so that we have something to rally the troops against
and distance ourselves from in '04."

Still, there's cause for hope. "There's always the Geneva
Convention," said an inside source, "We can't really step out
of that now, because it's part of our case against Saddam.
But once Iraq's been pulped, I think we'll get some big
numbers out of stepping away from that one. I mean,
Geneva's a European city, for godsakes. And they speak
French. You're looking at a 5% poll bump right there."








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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:11:23 2003
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no greater expert:
> conserve their, um, other juices in order
> to maintain youth and virility.

"Mandrake!  Do you know they are putting
that poison into ice cream?"

"Childrens ice cream!"

--
Buck Turgidson
(yes aht, I *know* whose lines those were)

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Mah-dahm B'tay:
> Did you celebrate your birthday today or yesterday?

2004.

I'll be 11.

--
Richard 1      but, but, nobody said it would be DANGEROUS!

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> =
> =  I finally saw Nert's picture of you all 'round the table.
> =
> = Way cool!
> =
> =
> = BrP
>
> Good!  Then you're one up on me!  Has anyone got a scanner?
>
> steph

Brian O'Neill said he'd scan it in and send it to me.  When he does, I'll send it to you.

BrP

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:13:49 2003
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In a message dated 03/03/2003 11:06:09 AM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:


I am coming to believe that Happy -- diabetes, chronic bladder
problems and all -- will outlive me by many years. Sort of "The Cat
Came Back," except mortality instead of geography.



------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-------------------
I'm convinced Mom's going to outlive me.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:16:57 2003
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quote recycler:
> Well, Ligniere's mother, as he says 'cooks like an angel', so I

Do angels eat?

Why would they cook?

Oooooooh, wait!  I think I know!  To serve
humans, and shit like that!

--
Gabriel(lle)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:20:10 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 12:17:09 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>In a message dated 03/03/2003 11:29:25 AM Central Standard Time,
>verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>
>Can I send him the goddamn cat too??
>
>You can send it to me if it needs a home.

Thank you, Evelyn; that's very sweet of you. But I'm taking good care
of him -- I'm just feeling resentful. (Can't imagine why, with
syringes costing $30/box, insulin costing $20/bottle, special cat
food costing $15 for a small bag, Febreze for washing all the stuff
he pisses on costing whatever Febreze costs, etc., etc., etc....)

Janet

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:33:41 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
Message-ID: <20030303203341.GA13247@pobox.com>
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> > However, that's beside the point, which is that I would like to
> >> > flame Karen for whining in a particularly illogical and
> >> > insulting way.
> >>
> >> I am horribly hurt. You'll have to beg me to let you take me to
> >> Charlie Trotter's.
>
> > Very well then!
>
> PULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEE take me to
> Charlie Trotter's!

I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.

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Monday, March 3, 2003, 2:33:41 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.

You're just saying this to hurt me.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:39:32 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:35:03 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
Message-ID: <20030303203503.GB13247@pobox.com>
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02003-03-03 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> Jim:
>
> >There was a segment on 60 Minutes tonight on Indian entrepreneurs who
> >have created thousnads of jobs in the US because of their fine technical
> >skills, and I fell asleep and missed it.
>
> >One of the guys on the show was named Murthy. Any relation, Rashmi?
>
> No relation. I didn't see the show but know who you're talking
> about. He's India's answer to Bill Gates and richer than dirt.

What I want to know is, what the hell kind of question is "BILL GATES"?
These guys need to get a life ...

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:36:37 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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02003-03-03 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> I still can't get over Steve's starry-eyed infatuation with blogs.

STEVE? What about Pete?

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:38:33 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, March 3, 2003, 2:33:41 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.
>
> You're just saying this to hurt me.

This thread has been shut down and will reboot after a reasonable outage.

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:40:52 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: So, Tushar...
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 2:38:33 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Monday, March 3, 2003, 2:33:41 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>> > I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.
>>
>> You're just saying this to hurt me.

> This thread has been shut down and will reboot after a reasonable outage.

Oh, no!!!! *This* is what happens when our impedances are
mismatched. Damn!


Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 14:59:15 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:54:45 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Somebody posted this url a while back, I think.  But I'm not sure.

http://users.chartertn.net/tonytemplin/FBI_eyes/index.html

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:55:33 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Bathroom Talkers
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What's with these guys who hold conversations in bathrooms?
Is that what a stupid bathroom's for? Handle your business
and get out. I can't solve a crossword like this ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 15:01:32 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 14:57:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 2:55:33 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> What's with these guys who hold conversations in bathrooms?
> Is that what a stupid bathroom's for? Handle your business
> and get out. I can't solve a crossword like this ...

They are exploring their feminine side.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 15:02:08 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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Subject: RE: Bathroom Talkers
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tushar Samant
>Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:56 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Bathroom Talkers
>
>
>What's with these guys who hold conversations in bathrooms?
>Is that what a stupid bathroom's for? Handle your business
>and get out. I can't solve a crossword like this ...


Tushar,

You know were just picking up guys and checking their equipment.


alec


------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu

"Peace cannot be kept by force.  It can only be achieved by understanding" -
Albert Einstein

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: .
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             on Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 12:17:09PM -0800
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Janet Hardy:
= >In a message dated 03/03/2003 11:29:25 AM Central Standard Time,
= >verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
= >
= >Can I send him the goddamn cat too??
= >
= >You can send it to me if it needs a home.
=
= Thank you, Evelyn; that's very sweet of you. But I'm taking good care
= of him -- I'm just feeling resentful. (Can't imagine why, with
= syringes costing $30/box, insulin costing $20/bottle, special cat
= food costing $15 for a small bag, Febreze for washing all the stuff
= he pisses on costing whatever Febreze costs, etc., etc., etc....)
=
= Janet

Jeez.  Our syringes are about EUR 0.10 a piece, the Hill's
Reduction Diet is EUR 15 for 2 Kg and the insulin is EUR 7 for
2.5 ml.  Murphy gets 4 units of a 40 unit/ml syringe, so he gets
0.1 ml twice a day.  This means in a month we're out 15(1.5) + 3(7) +
10(0.10) = about EUR 45/month.

Luckily all it took was moving the trash can for Murph to stop
pissing on the floor and flooding under the box.

Now, if he just wouldn't go off before my alarm!

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:32:24 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
Message-ID: <20030303223224.B23657@yoccoz.multinix.com>
References: <93295357461.20030302194323@WordWrite.com>
            <3E62B626.F8E97A29@valstar.net>
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             Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 02:33:41PM -0600
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= >
= > PULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEE take me to
= > Charlie Trotter's!
=
= I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.

They're not taking her, you are.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 15:38:43 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:36:04 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: eccentric
Message-ID: <20030303223604.C23657@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-03-03 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
= > I still can't get over Steve's starry-eyed infatuation with blogs.
=
= STEVE? What about Pete?

Hey, it's a career move for Pete, it's just another hobby for Steve.

(Steve.  Sounds funny.)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 15:45:51 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:43:08 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: picture from A'dam
Message-ID: <20030303224308.D23657@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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Paul R. Barfoot:
= > =
= > =  I finally saw Nert's picture of you all 'round the table.
= > =
= > = Way cool!
= > =
= > =
= > = BrP
= >
= > Good!  Then you're one up on me!  Has anyone got a scanner?
= >
= > steph
=
= Brian O'Neill said he'd scan it in and send it to me.  When he does, I'll send it to you.
=
= BrP

cool.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 15:57:08 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:52:38 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
Message-ID: <20030303215238.GA26348@pobox.com>
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            <194296244827.20030302195811@WordWrite.com>
            <3E62B712.21B4A991@valstar.net>
            <124296581221.20030302200347@WordWrite.com>
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02003-03-03 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> = > PULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEE take me to
> = > Charlie Trotter's!
> =
> = I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.
>
> They're not taking her, you are.

I thought YOU are.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 15:58:04 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:53:37 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: eccentric
Message-ID: <20030303215337.GB26348@pobox.com>
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02003-03-03 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> Tushar Samant:
> = 02003-03-03 | Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> = > I still can't get over Steve's starry-eyed infatuation with blogs.
> =
> = STEVE? What about Pete?
>
> Hey, it's a career move for Pete,

That's what I can't get over.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 15:59:39 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 15:55:09 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
Message-ID: <20030303215509.GC26348@pobox.com>
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02003-03-03 | "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU> writes:
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: English Language Discussion Group
> >[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tushar Samant
> >Sent: Monday, March 03, 2003 3:56 PM
> >To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
> >Subject: Bathroom Talkers
> >
> >
> >What's with these guys who hold conversations in bathrooms?
> >Is that what a stupid bathroom's for? Handle your business
> >and get out. I can't solve a crossword like this ...
>
> Tushar,
>
> You know were just picking up guys and checking their equipment.

Equipment! That's 23 across ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:01:17 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:56:17 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>What's with these guys who hold conversations in bathrooms?
>Is that what a stupid bathroom's for? Handle your business
>and get out. I can't solve a crossword like this ...

They've been hanging out with women too much.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:03:03 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 13:58:34 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Janet Hardy:
>= >In a message dated 03/03/2003 11:29:25 AM Central Standard Time,
>= >verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>= >
>= >Can I send him the goddamn cat too??
>= >
>= >You can send it to me if it needs a home.
>=
>= Thank you, Evelyn; that's very sweet of you. But I'm taking good care
>= of him -- I'm just feeling resentful. (Can't imagine why, with
>= syringes costing $30/box, insulin costing $20/bottle, special cat
>= food costing $15 for a small bag, Febreze for washing all the stuff
>= he pisses on costing whatever Febreze costs, etc., etc., etc....)
>
>Jeez.  Our syringes are about EUR 0.10 a piece, the Hill's
>Reduction Diet is EUR 15 for 2 Kg and the insulin is EUR 7 for
>2.5 ml.  Murphy gets 4 units of a 40 unit/ml syringe, so he gets
>0.1 ml twice a day.  This means in a month we're out 15(1.5) + 3(7) +
>10(0.10) = about EUR 45/month.
>
>Luckily all it took was moving the trash can for Murph to stop
>pissing on the floor and flooding under the box.

If it were just the diabetes that's all it would have taken for Happy
too. But he has chronic bladder infections -- he seems always to be
in low-level discomfort, and occasionally it seems to escalate to
pain (at which point I take him to the vet for *another* round of
antibiotics). The diabetes is a contributing factor, since his urine
is sugary enough to be a nice bacterial growth medium.

Reduction Diet's relatively cheap; he has to have something called
CD-OxL (no calcium) to prevent him from forming more stones.

Sigh.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:06:54 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:02:29 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
Message-ID: <20030303220229.GA27402@pobox.com>
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02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >What's with these guys who hold conversations in bathrooms?
> >Is that what a stupid bathroom's for? Handle your business
> >and get out. I can't solve a crossword like this ...
>
> They've been hanging out with women too much.

Man, could we somehow put a dam on this torrent of stupid clichés
that's been going on since morning? Men's bathrooms in an office
building ALWAYS have conversations going on ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:19:04 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: .
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>If it were just the diabetes that's all it would have taken for Happy
>too. But he has chronic bladder infections -- he seems always to be
>in low-level discomfort, and occasionally it seems to escalate to
>pain (at which point I take him to the vet        --Janet

It's just a cat.  Have him put down.  He's no longer "Happy".  Even if he
is and you're not, that's reason enough.  Free yourself.  Move on.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:16:17 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  >What's with these guys who hold conversations in bathrooms?
>>  >Is that what a stupid bathroom's for? Handle your business
>>  >and get out. I can't solve a crossword like this ...
>>
>>  They've been hanging out with women too much.
>
>Man, could we somehow put a dam on this torrent of stupid clichÈs
>that's been going on since morning? Men's bathrooms in an office
>building ALWAYS have conversations going on ...

Well, that's interesting, although of course I would have no way of
knowing. (I once got trapped in a men's bathroom by mistake, but it
was in a bar in a college town, and the "conversation" seemed to
consist mostly of belching.) I'd always assumed that, as men bitch so
much about women chatting in the bathroom, conversation in men's
rooms must be proscribed. Wasn't there some reference to this in one
of Asimov's futuristic detective-story novels whose titles I am
completely forgetting right now?

So, if it's that common, what's your damn problem with it?

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:23:46 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:19:47 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>  >If it were just the diabetes that's all it would have taken for Happy
>>too. But he has chronic bladder infections -- he seems always to be
>>in low-level discomfort, and occasionally it seems to escalate to
>>pain (at which point I take him to the vet        --Janet
>
>It's just a cat.  Have him put down.  He's no longer "Happy".  Even if he
>is and you're not, that's reason enough.  Free yourself.  Move on.

I can't bring myself to kill an essentially healthy animal. He seems
reasonably "Happy" -- still wants to be petted, still grooms himself,
still comes into the kitchen every morning and evening to demand his
insulin and the kitty treats that follow it. I've already made the
determination that I won't put him through another invasive procedure
like surgery or catheterization, but as long as his symptoms can be
controlled with antibiotics and muscle relaxants, putting him down
would be for my convenience, not his comfort -- and I'm not OK with
that.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:24:59 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:19:25 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>I'd always assumed that, as men bitch so
>much about women chatting in the bathroom, conversation in men's
>rooms must be proscribed.

It was proscribed in the convent.  I still have trouble talking in a bathroom.

>Wasn't there some reference to this in one
>of Asimov's futuristic detective-story novels whose titles I am
>completely forgetting right now?     --Janet

Speaking of science fiction, USA Today has an article about the top ten
science fiction/fantasy works.   Whoever wrote the summaries of the books,
really truly didn't get it.  At all.  Or they read different books than I did.

"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
resembles a swinger's club."

"Arthur C. Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace
to humans, who sacrifice greatness in accepting."


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:29:15 2003
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>  that I won't put him through another invasive procedure
>like surgery or catheterization, but as long as his symptoms can be
>controlled with antibiotics and muscle relaxants, putting him down
>would be for my convenience, not his comfort -- and I'm not OK with
>that.      --Janet

I know.  You are doing the right thing.  I have a Wisconsin friend in a
similar situation except it's two different cats.  One is diabetic.  The
other has chronic urinary infections.   That second cat is also getting up
in years.   With the last round of antibiotics, the cat lost a lot of
kidney function.  Rose Ann is now taking the cat to the vet in the morning
before she goes to work, three to five days a week, for fluid
treatment.  But, like you, she said the cat still has a good quality of
life.  She even said she is willing to take a second mortgage on her house,
although she hopes it doesn't come to that.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:30:58 2003
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Janet, you are a good person to take care of a little one as you
have been.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:32:39 2003
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>I know.  You are doing the right thing.  I have a Wisconsin friend ... ...
>    --bonniev

Speaking of Wisconsin friends, I have another one who broke her hip
Saturday night and had emergency surgery involving screws and a plate on
Sunday morning.  She's only 58 years old.

Anyone got an idea what she is in for now?   How many months of rehab?  In
a wheelchair?  How long before she can get back to work, do you think?


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:28:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 4:23:42 PM, bonniev wrote:
> She even said she is willing to take a second mortgage on her house,
> although she hopes it doesn't come to that.

JEEZE! I'd never do that.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:34:05 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:28:39 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>  >Wasn't there some reference to this in one
>>of Asimov's futuristic detective-story novels whose titles I am
>>completely forgetting right now?     --Janet
>
>Speaking of science fiction, USA Today has an article about the top ten
>science fiction/fantasy works.   Whoever wrote the summaries of the books,
>really truly didn't get it.  At all.  Or they read different books than I did.
>
>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
>resembles a swinger's club."

Oh for heaven's sake.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:31:26 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
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>  >  that I won't put him through another invasive procedure
>>like surgery or catheterization, but as long as his symptoms can be
>>controlled with antibiotics and muscle relaxants, putting him down
>>would be for my convenience, not his comfort -- and I'm not OK with
>>that.      --Janet
>
>I know.  You are doing the right thing.  I have a Wisconsin friend in a
>similar situation except it's two different cats.  One is diabetic.  The
>other has chronic urinary infections.   That second cat is also getting up
>in years.   With the last round of antibiotics, the cat lost a lot of
>kidney function.  Rose Ann is now taking the cat to the vet in the morning
>before she goes to work, three to five days a week, for fluid
>treatment.  But, like you, she said the cat still has a good quality of
>life.  She even said she is willing to take a second mortgage on her house,
>although she hopes it doesn't come to that.

Wow. Even for Amy I don't think I'd do that. And I certainly wouldn't
subject any animal who feels the way Happy does about the vet to
several-times-a-week visits.

It was very much a part of my upbringing to believe that one of the
ways in which pets have it better than humans was that when pets
aren't enjoying being alive any more, someone who cares about them
puts them gently to death. But I can't convince myself that Happy
isn't enjoying being alive.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:32:02 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 4:28:39 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
>>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
>>resembles a swinger's club."

> Oh for heaven's sake.

But that's all true! Though it's not all the book is about.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:37:15 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:33:32 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: .
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>Janet, you are a good person to take care of a little one as you
>have been.

Well, thank you -- although if they could read my thoughts the SPCA
would have me behind bars.

I believe that it would have been far better to put him to sleep
before the first round of bladder surgery. But I knew that was an
unwinnable fight -- it was either cut open the cat or spend the next
several years getting glared at as the hard-hearted bitch who killed
the cat.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:37:48 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:32:16 -0500
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
>>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
>>resembles a swinger's club."
>
>Oh for heaven's sake.
>Janet

No kidding.  Is there anything at all in Stranger about a child from Mars ???


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:40:07 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:37:16 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>Monday, March 3, 2003, 4:28:39 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
>>>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
>>>resembles a swinger's club."
>
>>  Oh for heaven's sake.
>
>But that's all true! Though it's not all the book is about.

This is sort of like saying that Gone With the Wind is about a
bickering couple, or that Romeo and Juliet is about teenagers who
have strict parents but have a crush on one another. It's true, but
spectacularly superficial and dismissive.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:40:11 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:35:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 4:32:16 PM, bonniev wrote:

>>>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
>>>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
>>>resembles a swinger's club."
>>
>>Oh for heaven's sake.
>>Janet

> No kidding.  Is there anything at all in Stranger about a child from Mars ???

Uh, yeah. IT'S WHERE THE MAIN CHARACTER COMES FROM!!!!

I don't think you should criticize these summaries, Bonnie. I
just reread SISL for one of my book clubs.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:40:58 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 14:38:15 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>  >>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
>>>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
>>>resembles a swinger's club."
>>
>>Oh for heaven's sake.
>>Janet
>
>No kidding.  Is there anything at all in Stranger about a child from Mars ???

Sure. Valentine Michael Smith is born to human parents on Mars, but
his parents die and he is raised by Martians.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 16:41:07 2003
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>>She even said she is willing to take a second mortgage on her house,
>>although she hopes it doesn't come to that.
>
>Wow. Even for Amy I don't think I'd do that. And I certainly wouldn't
>subject any animal who feels the way Happy does about the vet to
>several-times-a-week visits.

Well, Rose Ann will definitely be the eccentric little old lady with many
cats.  She also took in horses headed for the glue factory and took care of
them until they died.  The last one died about a year and a half ago.  She
got two miniature goats to keep that last horse company.  She had a barn
built on her land even though she has no garage.  But, in her defense, this
particular cat doesn't seem to mind the vet visits.  It has charmed all the
staff.

>But I can't convince myself that Happy
>isn't enjoying being alive.     --Janet

You count too.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:36:17 -0500
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> >>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
> >>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
> >>resembles a swinger's club."
>
> > Oh for heaven's sake.
>
>But that's all true! Though it's not all the book is about.
>Karen

Wow.  I don't even remember that part.  I remember Lazarus Long and that's
about it.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:38:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 4:37:16 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> This is sort of like saying that Gone With the Wind is about a
> bickering couple, or that Romeo and Juliet is about teenagers who
> have strict parents but have a crush on one another. It's true, but
> spectacularly superficial and dismissive.

Well, yes. But if you only have two lines and you're trying to a
plot summary, I think that's what you end up with. And I think
Heinlein's work is spectacularly easy to do such things to,
especially SISL.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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>Uh, yeah. IT'S WHERE THE MAIN CHARACTER COMES FROM!!!!
>
>I don't think you should criticize these summaries, Bonnie. I
>just reread SISL for one of my book clubs.
>Karen

Oh wait.  I was thinking about Time Enough For Love.


    --bonniev

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Monday, March 3, 2003, 4:36:17 PM, bonniev wrote:

>> >>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
>> >>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
>> >>resembles a swinger's club."
>>
>> > Oh for heaven's sake.
>>
>>But that's all true! Though it's not all the book is about.
>>Karen

> Wow.  I don't even remember that part.  I remember Lazarus Long and that's
> about it.

Um, Lazarus Long isn't in that book.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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At 05:41 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, bonnie wrote:

>That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They said:"Arthur C.
>Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to humans,
>who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
>theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."

But you are not writing articles to appeal to a generation that thinks that
Paradise Lost is the latest version of reality TV.

cwv

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In a message dated 03/03/2003 4:32:54 PM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
But I knew that was an
unwinnable fight -- it was either cut open the cat or spend the next
several years getting glared at as the hard-hearted bitch who killed
the cat.


>>

No, sometimes the kindest thing is to have the cat put to sleep,
as we had to do with Brandy.  We told him that he was a good
kitty and we loved him, but we had to do it.  I'll never forget his
scream as the vet injected him.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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Monday, March 3, 2003, 4:38:40 PM, bonniev wrote:

>>Uh, yeah. IT'S WHERE THE MAIN CHARACTER COMES FROM!!!!
>>
>>I don't think you should criticize these summaries, Bonnie. I
>>just reread SISL for one of my book clubs.
>>Karen

> Oh wait.  I was thinking about Time Enough For Love.

Ah, okay. That's an entirely different book.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 16:56:34 -0600
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 4:41:28 PM, bonniev wrote:
>>Well, yes. But if you only have two lines and you're trying to a
>>plot summary, I think that's what you end up with. And I think
>>Heinlein's work is spectacularly easy to do such things to,
>>especially SISL.    --Karen

> That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They said:"Arthur C.
> Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to humans,
> who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
> theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."

I haven't read that recently enough to comment.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Monday, March 3, 2003, 4:28:39 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:
> >>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
> >>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
> >>resembles a swinger's club."
>
> > Oh for heaven's sake.

    Considering that its from Macpape, uh, I mean, USA Today, I 'm surprised
that there's a three-syllable word in there.

JMW

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:41:28 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>Well, yes. But if you only have two lines and you're trying to a
>plot summary, I think that's what you end up with. And I think
>Heinlein's work is spectacularly easy to do such things to,
>especially SISL.    --Karen

That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They said:"Arthur C.
Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to humans,
who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."



    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 17:38:58 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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clyde w. voigtlander wrote:

> At 05:41 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, bonnie wrote:
>
>> That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They
>> said:"Arthur C.
>> Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to
>> humans,
>> who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
>> theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."
>
>
> But you are not writing articles to appeal to a generation that thinks that
> Paradise Lost is the latest version of reality TV.


        Oh, please.  I wouldn't stoop to reading Arthur C. Clarke or
Heinlein.  I do know my Milton, however.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 15:32:59 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Betty Clark <bclark@uhs.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: .
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At 09:04 AM 3/3/2003 -0800, you wrote:
>>Evelyn Duncan:
>>= In a message dated 03/03/2003 12:38:37 AM Central Standard Time,
>>= verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>>=
>>= <<
>>= Janet
>>= still trying to figure out
>>= what to do with about 40 boxes
>>= of Jaystuff in my old garage
>>=
>>= >>
>>=
>>= Garage sale?  Goodwill?
>>=
>>
>>E-Bay!
>
>If I felt like I could get rid of it, I'd hire someone with a pickup
>to haul it all to the dump -- it's not like there's a lot of valuable
>stuff in there. But I don't.
>
>Janet

Haul it to his place.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 18:09:16 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 16:05:53 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: Bathroom Talkers
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> >>"Robert A. Heinlein's Stranger in a Strange Land (1961) features a child
> > >>from Mars who adapt to life on Earth and founds his own church, which
> > >>resembles a swinger's club."
> >
> > > Oh for heaven's sake.
> >
> >But that's all true! Though it's not all the book is about.
> >Karen
>
> Wow.  I don't even remember that part.  I remember Lazarus Long and that's
> about it.

Not too surprising -- Lazarus Long isn't in "Stranger in a Strange Land."
You may be thinking of "Time Enough for Love."

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 18:10:43 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 16:07:24 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:      Re: .
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I'll never forget his
> scream as the vet injected him.

Ack. I didn't need to hear that.

I've been present as a few animals have been put to sleep -- my first job
ever, at 16 or so, was as a cage-mucker-outer in a vet hospital -- and none
have reacted like that.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 18:24:30 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >Man, could we somehow put a dam on this torrent of stupid clichés
> >that's been going on since morning? Men's bathrooms in an office
> >building ALWAYS have conversations going on ...
>
> Well, that's interesting, although of course I would have no way of
> knowing. (I once got trapped in a men's bathroom by mistake, but it
> was in a bar in a college town, and the "conversation" seemed to
> consist mostly of belching.) I'd always assumed that, as men bitch so
> much about women chatting in the bathroom, conversation in men's

Which men bitch about this? How do they even know? And if they
do, how does it become such a huge part of their life? Amazing,
simply amazing ...

> rooms must be proscribed. Wasn't there some reference to this in
> one of Asimov's futuristic detective-story novels whose titles I
> am completely forgetting right now?

Elijah Bailey and R Daneel Olivaw. Possibly The Caves of Steel
and The Naked Sun (Which, of course, proves nothing ... Asimov
was describing fictitious societies ...)

> So, if it's that common, what's your damn problem with it?

The mind reels at the implicit assumption in this ...

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:16:40 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
> Natalie:
> >> Octibbeha paid 4.60 to show.
> > What does this mean?
>
> It means she finished third, so people who bet
> her to show (i.e., finish 1, 2, or 3) got back
> their $2, plus winnings of $2.60.

Not bad.  Maybe after I move to BSL, I'll get into horse-racing in NO
and win big money on Octibbeha.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 18:31:34 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:27:04 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
> Men's bathrooms in an office
> building ALWAYS have conversations going on ...

This is true.  I hear them through the wall when I'm in the women's
restroom next door.  I can't make out the words, just the fact that
words are being said.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:27:51 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> knowing. (I once got trapped in a men's bathroom by mistake, but it

I once vomited in a men's restroom.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-03 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
> >Well, yes. But if you only have two lines and you're trying to a
> >plot summary, I think that's what you end up with. And I think
> >Heinlein's work is spectacularly easy to do such things to,
> >especially SISL.    --Karen
>
> That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They said:"Arthur C.
> Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to humans,
> who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
> theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."

That's spectacularly dismissive--of the reader. Giving a plot summary
is the appropriate thing to do.

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02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> This is sort of like saying that Gone With the Wind is about a
> bickering couple, or that Romeo and Juliet is about teenagers who
> have strict parents but have a crush on one another. It's true, but

No, it is not true of Romeo and Juliet. That's what's wrong
about it.

> spectacularly superficial and dismissive.

Sorry, I want a plot summary, not some vague received wisdom.

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02003-03-03 | "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@PANAX.COM> writes:
> But you are not writing articles to appeal to a generation that thinks that
> Paradise Lost is the latest version of reality TV.

There is no such generation except in the eyes of retired fowler-monkeys.

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02003-03-03 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> >At 05:41 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, bonnie wrote:
>
> >>That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They
> >>said:"Arthur C.
> >>Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to
> >>humans,
> >>who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
> >>theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."
> >
> >
> >But you are not writing articles to appeal to a generation that thinks that
> >Paradise Lost is the latest version of reality TV.
>
>        Oh, please.  I wouldn't stoop to reading Arthur C. Clarke or
> Heinlein.  I do know my Milton, however.

Rita, walk away from the old farts and hold me immediately.

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:44:00 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-03 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>
>>clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
>>
>>>At 05:41 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, bonnie wrote:
>>>
>>>>That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They
>>>>said:"Arthur C.
>>>>Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to
>>>>humans,
>>>>who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
>>>>theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."
>>>>
>>>
>>>But you are not writing articles to appeal to a generation that thinks that
>>>Paradise Lost is the latest version of reality TV.
>>>
>>       Oh, please.  I wouldn't stoop to reading Arthur C. Clarke or
>>Heinlein.  I do know my Milton, however.
>>
>
> Rita, walk away from the old farts and hold me immediately.


        Do let us abscond and bask in our superior X-ness.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:47:23 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: eccentric
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> Rita:
>
>> > C'mon, don't tell me you think Alyce is eccentric. No cats, for one.
>
>
>>        No, she's too with-it.
>
>
> Hah!
>
>>         But crankiness is more fun.  Sometimes I read Steve's and
>> Neal's blogs one after the other and pretend it's the early
>> 90's.
>
>
> I still can't get over Steve's starry-eyed infatuation with blogs.


        I know.  It's wild.  I get a huge kick out of this side of him.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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In a message dated 03/03/2003 6:06:31 PM Central Standard Time,
verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<<
I'll never forget his
> scream as the vet injected him.

Ack. I didn't need to hear that.

I've been present as a few animals have been put to sleep -- my first job
ever, at 16 or so, was as a cage-mucker-outer in a vet hospital -- and none
have reacted like that.


>>

That's why I've thought that he died too soon.  He wanted to live,
but the thread cut him up too badly inside for him to survive.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: eccentric
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:23:35 -0500
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> Are y'all going to see Alyce again?  Take her fattening pimp juice stuff.
>
> Betty

I'm not sure yet. I've asked her if she's up for a visit, and she isn't up
to going out, but maybe some of us who are up for it can swoop in, do some
cleaning, and cook her dinner with lots of leftovers, or something. IOW, I
don't know yet.

--Adam

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: eccentric
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:31:17 -0500
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> We're figuring it is about
> a six hour drive.

It's closer to seven hours, according to a coworker who has driven to Bar
Harbor.

When I go in July, that will be the longest drive I've ever done.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 19:33:33 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 7:31:17 PM, Adam Hartfield wrote:
> When I go in July, that will be the longest drive I've ever done.

Just make sure your A/C works and you don't fall asleep.

Right, Marie?

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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At 06:16 PM 3/3/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
> >
> > Natalie:
> > >> Octibbeha paid 4.60 to show.
> > > What does this mean?
> >
> > It means she finished third, so people who bet
> > her to show (i.e., finish 1, 2, or 3) got back
> > their $2, plus winnings of $2.60.
>
>Not bad.  Maybe after I move to BSL, I'll get into horse-racing in NO
>and win big money on Octibbeha.

Are you really serious about this move?  How far away is it? Could you
still have lunch with your friends? Who will you consult with regarding
questions we ask?

Brown flat water? Gross.

Betty

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From: Betty <bclark@uclink.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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At 08:31 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > We're figuring it is about
> > a six hour drive.
>
>It's closer to seven hours, according to a coworker who has driven to Bar
>Harbor.
>
>When I go in July, that will be the longest drive I've ever done.

You could break it up and spend a night someplace.

Betty

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 19:52:08 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Title page standard
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:47:36 -0500
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> Do any of you publishing types know if there is a standard for
> the contents of a title page?

No clue, sorry. On my most recent title pages, I've been putting the title
of the document, the version number (if applicable), and the company logo.

Today I was given copies of the ArtiosCAD manuals that were printed in China
and translated into Chinese. Very cool.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 20:21:49 2003
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:17:09 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
Message-ID: <20030304021709.GB9653@pobox.com>
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02003-03-03 | Adam Hartfield <adamh1@ATTBI.COM> writes:
> > I don't think you should criticize these summaries, Bonnie.
>
> For fun book summaries, visit Book-A-Minute at
> http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute.

  David Copperfield: Woe is me. My life is nought but hardships.
  Agnes Wickfield: Survive. I love you, David Copperfield.
  David Copperfield: Thank you. I love Dora Spenlow.
  Agnes Wickfield: I still love you, David Copperfield.
  David Copperfield: I love you, Agnes Wickfield.

A pretty good summary of how I read the book. I simply could not
read past a few pages, I read the last page and found Agnes was
in fact the one, and returned it to the library. Oh, how I cried
when near the end!

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:18:11 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:09:20 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > 02003-03-03 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> >> Tushar Samant wrote:
> >>
> >> >02003-03-03 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> >> >
> >> >>clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>>At 05:41 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, bonnie wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>>That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They
> >> >>>>said:"Arthur C.
> >> >>>>Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to
> >> >>>>humans,
> >> >>>>who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
> >> >>>>theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>But you are not writing articles to appeal to a generation that thinks
> >> >>>that
> >> >>>Paradise Lost is the latest version of reality TV.
> >> >>>
> >> >>      Oh, please.  I wouldn't stoop to reading Arthur C. Clarke or
> >> >>Heinlein.  I do know my Milton, however.
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >Rita, walk away from the old farts and hold me immediately.
> >>
> >>
> >>        Do let us abscond and bask in our superior X-ness.
> >                    ^^^^^^^
>
> > What does this mean?
>
> >From the online AHD:
> "To leave quickly and secretly and hide oneself, often to avoid
> arrest or prosecution.
>
> ETYMOLOGY:Latin abscondere, to hide : abs-, ab-, away; see ab–1 +
> condere, to put; see dh- in Appendix I.OTHER FORMS:ab·sconder
> —NOUN"

Thank you, K-R-N!

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:24:30 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Married by America
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Oh, Tushar, you *HAVE* to do this. Because the person's friends
> are the judges, and I NEED TO BE A TV JUDGE!!!!

So many needs, so little time ...

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:18:11 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> > Thank you, K-R-N!
>
> If you really appreciated me, you'd use all the letters of my
> name.

There is an e and an a in almost every post I make.

Wow ... I thought I was being listened to ...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 20:46:31 2003
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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Bathroom Talkers
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:05:57 -0500
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> I don't think you should criticize these summaries, Bonnie.

For fun book summaries, visit Book-A-Minute at
http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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>> > We're figuring it is about a six hour drive.
>>
>>It's closer to seven hours, according to a coworker who has driven to Bar
>>Harbor.

That surprises me.   We can get from here to Portland in three
hours.   Another hour and we are in Massachusetts.  Surely it isn't three
hours from the Mass border to West Springfield!   Hell, you can drive the
length of the state of Massachusetts in about two hours.  Maybe your
coworker took the scenic, coastal route through Maine.  Or maybe he drove
it at the height of summer tourist traffic.  Oh, that's right.  I guess
you, Adam, will be driving it at the height of summer tourist traffic!!   Ha Ha


    --bonniev

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Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:09:20 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-03 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>> Tushar Samant wrote:
>>
>> >02003-03-03 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>> >
>> >>clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>At 05:41 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, bonnie wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>>That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They
>> >>>>said:"Arthur C.
>> >>>>Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to
>> >>>>humans,
>> >>>>who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
>> >>>>theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>But you are not writing articles to appeal to a generation that thinks
>> >>>that
>> >>>Paradise Lost is the latest version of reality TV.
>> >>>
>> >>      Oh, please.  I wouldn't stoop to reading Arthur C. Clarke or
>> >>Heinlein.  I do know my Milton, however.
>> >>
>> >
>> >Rita, walk away from the old farts and hold me immediately.
>>
>>
>>        Do let us abscond and bask in our superior X-ness.
>                    ^^^^^^^

> What does this mean?

>From the online AHD:
"To leave quickly and secretly and hide oneself, often to avoid
arrest or prosecution.

ETYMOLOGY:Latin abscondere, to hide : abs-, ab-, away; see ab–1 +
condere, to put; see dh- in Appendix I.OTHER FORMS:ab·sconder
—NOUN"



Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:09:20 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-03 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> >02003-03-03 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> >
> >>clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> >>
> >>>At 05:41 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, bonnie wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They
> >>>>said:"Arthur C.
> >>>>Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to
> >>>>humans,
> >>>>who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
> >>>>theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>But you are not writing articles to appeal to a generation that thinks
> >>>that
> >>>Paradise Lost is the latest version of reality TV.
> >>>
> >>      Oh, please.  I wouldn't stoop to reading Arthur C. Clarke or
> >>Heinlein.  I do know my Milton, however.
> >>
> >
> >Rita, walk away from the old farts and hold me immediately.
>
>
>        Do let us abscond and bask in our superior X-ness.
                   ^^^^^^^

What does this mean?

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:19:19 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>>  >Man, could we somehow put a dam on this torrent of stupid clichÈs
>>  >that's been going on since morning? Men's bathrooms in an office
>>  >building ALWAYS have conversations going on ...
>>
>>  Well, that's interesting, although of course I would have no way of
>>  knowing. (I once got trapped in a men's bathroom by mistake, but it
>>  was in a bar in a college town, and the "conversation" seemed to
>>  consist mostly of belching.) I'd always assumed that, as men bitch so
>>  much about women chatting in the bathroom, conversation in men's
>
>Which men bitch about this? How do they even know?

"Why do you girls always go to the powder room together?"

(The possible answers to this are so multifarious and tempting that I
never know which one to pick -- although I usually fall back on "To
talk about you behind your back," which is generally true.)

>  > rooms must be proscribed. Wasn't there some reference to this in
>>  one of Asimov's futuristic detective-story novels whose titles I
>>  am completely forgetting right now?
>
>Elijah Bailey and R Daneel Olivaw. Possibly The Caves of Steel
>and The Naked Sun (Which, of course, proves nothing ... Asimov
>was describing fictitious societies ...)

Yes; thank you. I know he was describing fictitious societies, but in
the absence of information to the contrary I thought he was probably
basing them to some degree on current practice.

>  > So, if it's that common, what's your damn problem with it?
>
>The mind reels at the implicit assumption in this ...

The mind reels at the idea of having to feel snitty every time you
walk into a men's room at work.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:21:40 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>02003-03-03 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
>>  >Well, yes. But if you only have two lines and you're trying to a
>>  >plot summary, I think that's what you end up with. And I think
>>  >Heinlein's work is spectacularly easy to do such things to,
>>  >especially SISL.    --Karen
>>
>>  That doesn't justify the summary of Childhood's End.  They said:"Arthur C.
>>  Clarke's Childhood's End (1953) tells of aliens who offer peace to humans,
>>  who sacrifice greatness in accepting."    I would have said:  "offers a
>>  theory that humans are being guided by aliens toward a higher end."
>
>That's spectacularly dismissive--of the reader. Giving a plot summary
>is the appropriate thing to do.

Seems to me that Bonnie's description is less projective than the one
written. Whose opinion is it that humans have sacrificed greatness,
and what does s/he mean by greatness? (I don't remember Childhood's
End, so I'm flying blind here. And Bonnie's description does include
the "higher end," which is also projective. But if you're going to
describe plot, describe plot and leave the value judgments out of it.)

Janet

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Bathroom Talkers
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:20:05 -0500
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> A pretty good summary of how I read the book.

They're all pretty funny. Look at the Jane Austen one:

Female Lead: I secretly love Male Lead. He must never know.
Male Lead: I secretly love Female Lead. She must never know.
(They find out.)
THE END

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:23:11 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Title page standard
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>  > Do any of you publishing types know if there is a standard for
>>  the contents of a title page?
>
>No clue, sorry. On my most recent title pages, I've been putting the title
>of the document, the version number (if applicable), and the company logo.

I put the title, subtitle if any, author's name and company logo. If
there's a bastard title page, just the title on that.

Janet

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:22:00 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> >Which men bitch about this? How do they even know?
>
> "Why do you girls always go to the powder room together?"
>
> (The possible answers to this are so multifarious and tempting that I
> never know which one to pick -- although I usually fall back on "To
> talk about you behind your back," which is generally true.)

It's time for me to admit it--I simply don't know a huge subset
of men ... but that's fine by me.

> >Elijah Bailey and R Daneel Olivaw. Possibly The Caves of Steel
> >and The Naked Sun (Which, of course, proves nothing ... Asimov
> >was describing fictitious societies ...)
>
> Yes; thank you. I know he was describing fictitious societies, but in
> the absence of information to the contrary I thought he was probably
> basing them to some degree on current practice.

It may have been like that when he wrote the book. Who knows?

> > > So, if it's that common, what's your damn problem with it?
> >
> >The mind reels at the implicit assumption in this ...
>
> The mind reels at the idea of having to feel snitty every time you
> walk into a men's room at work.

It's kind of pretty BAD and anti-social isn't it?

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From: BrandyKitt@aol.com
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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:22:03 EST
Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Bathroom Talkers
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In a message dated 03/03/2003 8:06:17 PM Central Standard Time,
adamh1@ATTBI.COM writes:

<<
For fun book summaries, visit Book-A-Minute at
http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute.


>>

The PBS station in Cleveland used to show a program
that consisted of short summaries of operas; the program
was basically a body count that would have interested
Dick Wolf.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "meebers" <words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: e.e. cummings' book-a-minute
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:20:55 -0500
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is the best.

http://www.rinkworks.com/bookaminute/b/cummings.shtml

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:27:22 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:18:11 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> Thank you, K-R-N!

If you really appreciated me, you'd use all the letters of my
name.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:17:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Oh, Tushar, you *HAVE* to do this. Because the person's friends
are the judges, and I NEED TO BE A TV JUDGE!!!!

Karen

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > > The mind reels at the idea of having to feel snitty every time you
> > > walk into a men's room at work.
> >
> >It's kind of pretty BAD and anti-social isn't it?
>
> Yes. You must stop it immediately. Straighten up and fly right. Let a
> smile be your umbrella. There's no "I" in "Team."

I know! :-) And it's such a nice day too! :-) :) I'd like to ask
Betty, actually ... how ARE you? I hope you are OK! :))))) How
was you day???

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:32:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Bathroom Talkers
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:30:01 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
>> > > The mind reels at the idea of having to feel snitty every time you
>> > > walk into a men's room at work.
>> >
>> >It's kind of pretty BAD and anti-social isn't it?
>>
>> Yes. You must stop it immediately. Straighten up and fly right. Let a
>> smile be your umbrella. There's no "I" in "Team."

> I know! :-) And it's such a nice day too! :-) :) I'd like to ask
> Betty, actually ... how ARE you? I hope you are OK! :))))) How
> was you day???

Can you caulk?

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 20:46:41 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 18:28:04 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>  > The mind reels at the idea of having to feel snitty every time you
>  > walk into a men's room at work.
>
>It's kind of pretty BAD and anti-social isn't it?

Yes. You must stop it immediately. Straighten up and fly right. Let a
smile be your umbrella. There's no "I" in "Team."

Janet

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 20:33:11 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:31:11 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:18:11 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>> > Thank you, K-R-N!
>>
>> If you really appreciated me, you'd use all the letters of my
>> name.

> There is an e and an a in almost every post I make.

> Wow ... I thought I was being listened to ...

Uh-huh.

Next thing I know, you'll sneeze and expect me to pet your face.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: eccentric
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:29:05 -0500
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> Surely it isn't three
> hours from the Mass border to West Springfield!   Hell, you can drive the
> length of the state of Massachusetts in about two hours.

I have no idea. It took me 90 minutes to drive from here into Boston itself.

>  Maybe your
> coworker took the scenic, coastal route through Maine.  Or maybe he drove
> it at the height of summer tourist traffic.

She went sometime in the past year; I don't know exactly when.

> Oh, that's right.  I guess
> you, Adam, will be driving it at the height of summer tourist
> traffic!!   Ha Ha

Greaaaaaaat. Since you've made this trip before, are there gas stations
along 95?

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:31:11 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > 02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >> Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:18:11 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >> > Thank you, K-R-N!
> >>
> >> If you really appreciated me, you'd use all the letters of my
> >> name.
>
> > There is an e and an a in almost every post I make.
>
> > Wow ... I thought I was being listened to ...
>
> Uh-huh.
>
> Next thing I know, you'll sneeze and expect me to pet your face.

Please ... I'm not GAY[tm]

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 20:48:31 2003
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>Greaaaaaaat. Since you've made this trip before, are there gas stations
>along 95?      --Adam

Jeez.   It is Maine.  It is the frozen tundra.   But we do have gas
stations.  Not every exit, though.   You could stop in Freeport, just north
of Portland, buy some gas and some LLBean boots.   Then you could get to
Bangor.  They have gas stations.


    --bonniev

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 20:58:23 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty wrote:

> Are you really serious about this move?

Yes.

> How far away is it?

About five hours?  Maybe less than that.

> Could you
> still have lunch with your friends?

If they come visit me, or if I go visit them.

> Who will you consult with regarding
> questions we ask?

What questions?

> Brown flat water? Gross.

I don't plan to live on the water.  The Jourdan River also is in BSL.
Maybe I'll live on it.  It also has brown, flat water, of course.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:58:18 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:
>
> I'm not sure yet. I've asked her if she's up for a visit, and she isn't up
> to going out, but maybe some of us who are up for it can swoop in, do some
> cleaning, and cook her dinner with lots of leftovers, or something. IOW, I
> don't know yet.

I'd be pleased if you swoop in, but I do understand the distance you
have to travel and the time constraints, so I will understand if you
don't find it practical.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:02:52 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Betty wrote:
> How far away is it?

  110 White Dr
  Starkville, MS 39759-2635 US

  [100-139] Main St
  Bay Saint Louis, MS  39520 US

  Total Distance: 290.83 miles
  Total Estimated Time: 5 hours, 42 minutes

from:
http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&1n=OKTIBBEHA+COUNTY&ct=NA&1y=US&1a=110+WHITE+DR&1p=&1c=STARKVILLE&1s=MS&1z=39759-2635&2ex=1&2y=US&2aa=r57Wf%252fBjJiCUR02typrJ9q3B3xJXgyiWNOk2T7iGKtICuHQcflHEjTQC8CJqft26C8cis%252fpvcsDyi4il4ctiVbfiuC%252bwRdFl7aiejT9fIAE%253d&2c=Bay+St.+Louis&2s=MS&2z=&lr=2&x=57&y=15

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Vizslas
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:04:48 -0500
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These are my new favorite dogs:
http://www.hometown.aol.com/szizlin3/HomePage.html

This breeder has puppies right now, but it won't be practical for us to
adopt a puppy until the end of the summer. But I am sooooo tempted. Look how
sweet!

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com




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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:07:35 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:

> Greaaaaaaat. Since you've made this trip before, are there gas stations
> along 95?

No.  Gas is not sold north of Boston.  You have to carry your own cans.
Lots of people rent small trailers to carry it if they're going very far
into Maine.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:09:08 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Janet Hardy wrote:
> I put the title, subtitle if any, author's name and company logo. If
> there's a bastard title page, just the title on that.

I put title, subtitle, author at top and then at the bottom a logo if
there is one, and then the name of the publisher and the city and date:

Argonaut Publishers, Inc.
Chicago             2003

alyce

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At 09:04 PM 3/3/2003 -0600, you wrote:
>A cute map:
>
>http://www.mapquest.com/mqproxy/3e6416d0-0005b-06fdd-400c254e
>
>--
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


Just go for New Orleans.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 21:23:20 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Title page standard
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:18:48 -0500
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>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
>Janet Hardy wrote:
> > I put the title, subtitle if any, author's name and company logo. If
> > there's a bastard title page, just the title on that.
>
>I put title, subtitle, author at top and then at the bottom a logo if
>there is one, and then the name of the publisher and the city and date:
>
>Argonaut Publishers, Inc.
>Chicago             2003

Strange. I didn't get Janet's response. But, I'm getting the feeling no one
knows of a standard that we can hold up and say, "Do this!" It seems like
such a simple thing, but so many documents are published without complete
identifying information -- makes life very difficult on my cataloger
friends.

I copied the pages from the Chicago Manual of Style, which lists the basic
information that should be on a title page, copyright page, etc. I'm not
sure the boss will be totally satisfied, but...

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com


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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Mon Mar  3 21:23:25 2003
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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:10:39 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:
>
> These are my new favorite dogs:
> http://www.hometown.aol.com/szizlin3/HomePage.html

Are they alive?  They look like statues.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:13:34 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>Marie Ascher wrote:
> >
> > These are my new favorite dogs:
> > http://www.hometown.aol.com/szizlin3/HomePage.html
>
>Are they alive?  They look like statues.

They are pointers. Something must have had their attention. Here's the
babies:
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=12&uid=513743&gid=1741879&

She has that statue thing going on here too, huh? Very good posture. I've
actually never hung out with one of these dogs, but I've heard they are very
energetic and friendly.

Marie
   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com


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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:04:46 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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A cute map:

http://www.mapquest.com/mqproxy/3e6416d0-0005b-06fdd-400c254e

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:19:39 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:34:54 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> 02003-03-03 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> Next thing I know, you'll sneeze and expect me to pet your face.

> Please ... I'm not GAY[tm]

Hm... My cat is female and I'm female. That's the secret!!!

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
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Subject: RE: eccentric
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:20:46 -0500
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> No.  Gas is not sold north of Boston.  You have to carry your own cans.
> Lots of people rent small trailers to carry it if they're going very far
> into Maine.

Ha, ha. I meant are there service plazas along the highway versus having to
get off at an exit and hunt for a gas station.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 21:22:50 -0600
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Monday, March 3, 2003, 9:18:48 PM, Marie Ascher wrote:
> Strange. I didn't get Janet's response. But, I'm getting the feeling no one
> knows of a standard that we can hold up and say, "Do this!"

Nope.

> I copied the pages from the Chicago Manual of Style, which lists the basic
> information that should be on a title page, copyright page, etc. I'm not
> sure the boss will be totally satisfied, but...

I think that's as much of an authority as anything.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Betty wrote:
> Just go for New Orleans.

Go for in what way?  Head the nose of my car in that direction?  That
would get me close.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:25:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:

> >Are they alive?  They look like statues.
>
> They are pointers. Something must have had their attention. Here's the
> babies:
> http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=12&uid=513743&gid=1741879&

I wrote the above about the statues in the leaves before I scrolled down
and found the babies.

> She has that statue thing going on here too, huh? Very good posture. I've
> actually never hung out with one of these dogs, but I've heard they are very
> energetic and friendly.

None of them are smiling, though.  They all look <earnest>, even the
puppies.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:
> Strange. I didn't get Janet's response. But, I'm getting the feeling no one
> knows of a standard that we can hold up and say, "Do this!" It seems like
> such a simple thing,


Well, I will tell you to do as I said. I published 110 books that way.
And I look at title pages every day. They all do  it that way except
that some do not put the date on the title page. That used to be the
rule, but seems not to be as widespread as in earlier days.

The copyright page needs the copyright notice, the ISBN number, and the
LC number and CIP data if available. You can also put First Edition or
whatever edition it is.

alyce

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Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 21:29:14 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Adam Hartfield wrote:

> Ha, ha. I meant are there service plazas along the highway versus having to
> get off at an exit and hunt for a gas station.

I associate service plazas with parkways -- with toll roads.  But that's
right -- lots of ordinary interstates in New England are toll roads off
and on.  I'd forgotten that.  I'd rather exit for gas than go to a
service plaza.  Don't know why.  But I don't go hunting for them -- I
exit when I see familiar gas signs in the air (or sometimes read the
little signs on highways that have little signs telling you what kind of
gas is at the next exit).

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 08:30 PM 3/3/2003 -0600, Tushar Samant wrote:
>02003-03-03 | Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET> writes:
> > > > The mind reels at the idea of having to feel snitty every time you
> > > > walk into a men's room at work.
> > >
> > >It's kind of pretty BAD and anti-social isn't it?
> >
> > Yes. You must stop it immediately. Straighten up and fly right. Let a
> > smile be your umbrella. There's no "I" in "Team."
>
>I know! :-) And it's such a nice day too! :-) :) I'd like to ask
>Betty, actually ... how ARE you? I hope you are OK! :))))) How
>was you day???

Oh, man, thanks for asking!  We have been preparing for big budget cuts
here. People are going to lose jobs. I haven't even been able to take my
turn in scrabble in a timely fashion. When I finally did get out of a
meeting to make a play, I hurriedly placed it  near a three letter word
score knowing Bonnie the Bitch couldn't possibly have another "i" , to make
the dreaded "qi" , on her rack since I  had quickly counted about six on
the board.  WRONG.  She had an "i" and a K and made something worth too
many points. I had to check to make sure it was even a word.  I don't trust
her. Now I can't even get back into the game to finish losing.  I was
really wishing I had a pair of those pointed toed three inch spike shoes,
also known as come fuck me pumps, because  I was ready to kick something.
How could I be so lax?

How was you day?

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Title page standard
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:33:10 -0500
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>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
>Well, I will tell you to do as I said. I published 110 books that way.

Understood. But I would have liked to have been able to have presented a
written standard.

Marie

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At 09:24 PM 3/3/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>Betty wrote:
> > Just go for New Orleans.
>
>Go for in what way?  Head the nose of my car in that direction?  That
>would get me close.

Sounds like a plan.

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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>score knowing Bonnie the Bitch couldn't possibly have another "i" , to make
>the dreaded "qi" ,

She wouldn't be able to play that if you just played with the OSPD3, rather
than SOWPODS.

Marie

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At 10:35 PM 3/3/2003 -0500, Marie Ascher wrote:
>>score knowing Bonnie the Bitch couldn't possibly have another "i" , to make
>>the dreaded "qi" ,
>
>She wouldn't be able to play that if you just played with the OSPD3, rather
>than SOWPODS.

We play with everything.  Anything goes.  It's war!

Betty

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From: "Michael E. Macmillan" <mem@noxiousweeds.net>
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On 3 Mar 2003 at 22:18, Marie Ascher wrote:

> Strange. I didn't get Janet's response. But, I'm getting the feeling no
> one knows of a standard that we can hold up and say, "Do this!" It seems
> like such a simple thing, but so many documents are published without
> complete identifying information -- makes life very difficult on my
> cataloger friends.

I'm reasonably certain there is no standard of the NISO or ANSI
sort. Publishers do pretty much what pleases them, but this usually
comes down to a commonsensical set of elements. You might take a
look at the Xerox publishng standards--I can't remember whether
that's the exact title, but it's something like that. There might
be something of interest there. Your organization can set its own
standard, of course, and enforce it as you can.

    mem

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>Ha, ha. I meant are there service plazas along the highway versus having to
>get off at an exit and hunt for a gas station.         --Adam

There are no service plazas.    You really haven't traveled much, have
you?   You don't have to "hunt" for a service station.   They have signs
that go high up in the air so that you can see them from the
interstate.  But you do have to exit to get to them.


    --bonniev

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>score knowing Bonnie the Bitch couldn't possibly have another "i" , to make
>the dreaded "qi" , on her rack since I  had quickly counted about six on
>the board.  WRONG.

She actually assigned me that name in the Scrabble game.  I get an
invitation from the Pixie Pit that says "Hi Bitch.  You are invited to a
Scrabble game with Betty."   The worse thing was that when I set up the
game before this one I tried to assign the name Beach Bum to her.  But the
Pixie Pit said "Please use appropriate names.  Bum is not appropriate."

>  She had an "i" and a K and made something worth too
>many points. I had to check to make sure it was even a word.  --Betty

The word was "kin".   I didn't even have to cheat to see that word on my tray.

    --bonniev

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In a message dated 3/3/2003 3:19:44 PM, verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:

<< putting him down
would be for my convenience, not his comfort -- and I'm not OK with
that. >>

I hear you. I agree, Theo

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Vizslas
Date: Mon, 03 Mar 2003 22:50:36 -0500
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>None of them are smiling, though.  They all look <earnest>, even the
>puppies.

http://www.geocities.com/mnchstrvizsla/Odinn.html

:-)

Marie

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In a message dated 3/3/2003 4:41:54 PM, rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<        Oh, please.  I wouldn't stoop to reading Arthur C. Clarke or
Heinlein.  I do know my Milton, however.
 >>

Stoop? If you never read it, how can you judge it? Theo

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From: "Action Alerts" <Action.Alert@Verizon.net>
Subject: New Stock Profiled: (WAIV) Target Price $.20
Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2003 22:46:33 -1800
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3DContent-Type content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
windows-1252"><title>SPECIAL ALERT</title><style></style></head><body onlo=
ad=3D"window.open('http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/intchart/frames/qsymbi=
nfo.asp?sid=3D476193&time=3D7&freq=3D2&symb=3DWAIV'); self.focus();"><tabl=
e cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D0 width=3D716 bgColor=3D#000000 border=3D0=
><tr><td width=3D716><div align=3Dcenter><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://m=
ysite.verizon.net/web2434j/SavvyInvestorheader.jpg" width=3D"716" height=3D=
"99"></div><div align=3Dcenter><font color=3D#FFFFFF>&nbsp;</font><font fa=
ce=3D"Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=3D4 color=3D#FFFFDD><b>&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </b>&nbsp; </font><font face=
=3D"Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=3D"4" color=3D"#FFFFFF">&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Feb. 2003 Edition=
&nbsp; - Featuring </font><font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times, serif" siz=
e=3D"4" color=3D"#FFFF00">CNN Money</font><font face=3D"Times New Roman, T=
imes, serif"! size=3D"4" color=3D"#FFFFFF"> and </font><font face=3D"Times=
 New Roman, Times, serif" size=3D"4" color=3D"#33CCFF">Reuters</font></div=
></td></tr></table><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D2 width=3D716 bord=
er=3D0><tr><td vAlign=3Dtop align=3Dleft bgColor=3D#000000 width=3D716><ta=
ble cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D3 width=3D712 bgColor=3D#ffffff border=3D=
0 style=3D"border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor=3D#111111><tr><td width=3D=
701 align=3Dleft vAlign=3Dtop><div align=3D"center"><table width=3D700 bor=
der=3D0 align=3Dcenter cellPadding=3D3 cellSpacing=3D0 bordercolor=3D#1111=
11 style=3D"border-collapse: collapse"><tr><td width=3D300 align=3Dleft vA=
lign=3Dtop><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D3 width=3D317 border=3D0 s=
tyle=3D"border-collapse: collapse" bordercolor=3D#111111><tr><TD VALIGN=3D=
"top" ALIGN=3D"left" HEIGHT=3D"181" COLSPAN=3D"2" width=3D"311"><STRONG>Ea=
ch month Wall Street Monthly analysts study, research, and examine hundred=
s of NASDAQ stocks, in an effort to pinpoint the one with the most promise=
</STRONG><P><STRONG><font color=3D"#006600">This month's pick :</font> Wo=
rld Associates Inc.</STRONG></P><P><STRONG><SPAN CLASS=3D"c2">Symbol: <a t=
itle=3D"Click for Real-Time Quotes" href=3D"http://bigcharts.marketwatch.c=
om/intchart/frames/qsymbinfo.asp?sid=3D476193&time=3D7&freq=3D2&symb=3DWAI=
V">WAIV</a></SPAN></STRONG></P><P><STRONG><SPAN CLASS=3D"c2">Current Price=
:</SPAN> <SPAN CLASS=3D"c2">$0.11 <font color=3D"#006600">+15.45%</font></=
SPAN></STRONG></P><P><STRONG><SPAN CLASS=3D"c2">Opinion:</SPAN> <SPAN CLAS=
S=3D"c2">Strong Buy</SPAN></STRONG></P></TD></tr><tr><TD ALIGN=3D"center" =
WIDTH=3D"132" HEIGHT=3D"45"><font color=3D"#006600"><STRONG><EM><font size=
=3D"5"><u>Recent News</u></font><font size=3D"4">:</font></EM></STRONG></f=
ont></TD><TD VALIGN=3D"top" ALIGN=3D"left" WIDTH=3D"173" HEIGHT=3D"45"><a =
title=3D"Click Here for News on WAIV" href=3D"http://bigcharts.marketwatch=
com/intchart/frames/symbolnews.asp?news=3Dallnews&orig=3Dcharting&symb=3D=
WAIV&sid=3D476193&time=3D5"><IMG BORDER=3D"0" SRC=3D"http://mysite.verizon=
net/web2434j/news.jpg" WIDTH=3D"97" HEIGHT=3D"73"></a></TD></tr><tr><TD V=
ALIGN=3D"top" ! ALIGN=3D"left" HEIGHT=3D"442" COLSPAN=3D"2" width=3D"311">=
<P CLASS=3D"MsoNormal"><STRONG><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Arial"><a href=3D"=
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=3DtopNews&storyID=3D2083817"=
><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://mysite.verizon.net/web2434j/reuters.GIF" =
width=3D"112" height=3D"23"></a></font><SPAN CLASS=3D"t"> </SPAN></STRONG>=
<span style=3D"font-weight: 700; font-family: Times New Roman">Even in a s=
luggish market - <u>The Real Estate sector continues to perform and its st=
ocks stay strong.</u></span><b> <a href=3D"http://www.reuters.com/newsArti=
cle.jhtml?type=3DtopNews&storyID=3D2284549">More.....</a></b></P><P CLASS=3D=
"MsoNormal"><STRONG><a href=3D"http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/const=
ruction/2003-01-03-construction-spending_x.htm"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"h=
ttp://mysite.verizon.net/web2434j/usatoday.jpg" width=3D"79" height=3D"44"=
></a>&nbsp; </STRONG><b>The Housing Market is Red Hot! Construction spendi=
ng is at an all-time monthly high, the government reported!&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp; <a href=3D"http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/construction/2003-02-=
03-dec-spending_x.htm">More.....</a></b></P><P CLASS=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=
=3D"http://lang.sbsun.com/homes/articles/1202/18/121802price_spike.asp"><i=
mg border=3D"0" src=3D"http://mysite.verizon.net/web2434j/thesun.gif" widt=
h=3D"120" height=3D"30"></a><STRONG>&nbsp; </STRONG><b><font face=3D"Times=
 New Roman, Times, serif">California remains the hottest market in the cou=
ntry. The median price of new and existing homes </font><font face=3D"Aria=
l,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular" size=3D"2">hit record highs in S=
an Bernardino County</font><font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times, serif">&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://lang.sbsun.com/homes/articles/0103/24/0=
12403home_sales.asp">More.....</a></font></b></P><P CLASS=3D"MsoNormal"><S=
TRONG><a href=3D"http://money.cnn.com/2003/01/27/pf/yourhome/realestateout=
look/index.htm"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http://mysite.verizon.net/web2434=
j/cnn.jpg" width=3D"93" height=3D"26"></a> </STRONG><b>The results are in.=
 Last year was another record-setting year for real estate thanks to an ec=
onomy with low interest rates, and <u>there is no end in sight.</u>&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp; <a href=3D"http://money.cnn.com/2003/01/21/news/economy/housin=
g/index.htm">More.....</a></b></P></TD></tr><tr valign=3D"top"><TD COLSPAN=
=3D"2" ALIGN=3D"left" width=3D"311"><p align=3D"center"><b>&nbsp;</b><i><b=
><font size=3D"5" color=3D"#006600"><u>Highlights of Current and Future Su=
ccess</u>:</font></b></i></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D"4">&nbs=
p;- </font>Recently acquired more than $10 M in real estate assets</b></p>=
<p class=3DMsoNormal><b>&nbsp;- Projected sales of $100,000,000 over four =
years</b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>&nbsp;- More than $5M in earnings pro=
jected for each of 2003 and 2004</b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>&nbsp;-&nb=
sp; Real estate may provide assets that allow for a listing on a major exc=
hange</b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><b>&nbsp;- Incorporating environmentally=
 friendly and sustainable technologies</b></p><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3D=
"center"><i><b><font size=3D"5" color=3D"#006600"><u>WAIV Aims High, Deter=
mined To Succeed</u>:</font></b></i></p><p cl! ass=3D"MsoNormal"><b>World =
is extending the real estate concept of &quot;highest and best use&quot; t=
o include quality of life considerations. A &quot;higher and better&quot; =
use for real property is to find the very most profitable use that also pr=
ovides a beneficial impact to the community and environment. World believe=
s that this approach will be a key to successful real property development=
 in the future.</b></p></TD></tr></table></td><td vAlign=3Dtop align=3Dlef=
t width=3D350><table cellSpacing=3D0 cellPadding=3D3 width=3D340 border=3D=
0 height=3D76><tr><TD ALIGN=3D"center" HEIGHT=3D"54" WIDTH=3D"201"><u><EM>=
<STRONG><font size=3D"5" color=3D"#006600">A Closer Look:</font></STRONG><=
/EM></u></TD><TD VALIGN=3D"top" ALIGN=3D"right" HEIGHT=3D"54" WIDTH=3D"124=
"><IMG BORDER=3D"0" SRC=3D"http://mysite.verizon.net/web2434j/newmag.jpg" =
WIDTH=3D"97" HEIGHT=3D"73"></TD></tr><tr><TD VALIGN=3D"top" ALIGN=3D"left"=
 HEIGHT=3D"47" COLSPAN=3D"2"><b>World Associates, Inc. (World) was founded=
 in 1990 and it has evolved into a fully integrated ! real estate enterpri=
se. World is combining access to the capital markets, a competency with In=
ternet technology, a portfolio of sustainable technologies, and the inhere=
nt strength of real estate as a means of creating shareholder value. Early=
 in 2002 World acquired more than $10 million in real estate assets. The c=
ompany is negotiating other joint venture opportunities and alliances, and=
 it will continue to expand it's growing portfolio of assets to develop.</=
b><p align=3D"center"><i><b><font size=3D"5"><font color=3D"#006600"><u>Ob=
jective</u></font>:</font></b></i></p><p><b>The company=FFFFFF92s immediat=
e objective is to execute a plan of development for it's current assets th=
at include more than 300 acres of property valued at more than $10,000,000=
 When fully developed, the property will support more than 700 homes repr=
esenting more than $100,000,000 in total sales over the next four years. T=
he company will continue to add to the assets it owns, focusing on land de=
velopment, affordable! housing, 55+ housing, and infill housing.</b></p><T=
ABLE CELLSPACING=3D"0" CELLPADDING=3D"3" WIDTH=3D"320" BORDER=3D"0" HEIGHT=
=3D"51" CLASS=3D"c6"><TR><TD ALIGN=3D"left" WIDTH=3D"211" HEIGHT=3D"1"><P =
CLASS=3D"c3"><i><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman, Times, serif" color=3D"#=
006600" size=3D"5"><u><a href=3D"http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/javachar=
t/javachart.asp?symb=3Dwaiv&time=3D5&freq=3D1"><font color=3D"#006600">Poi=
nts to Consider</font></a></u><a href=3D"http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/=
javachart/javachart.asp?symb=3Dwaiv&time=3D5&freq=3D1"><font color=3D"#006=
600">:</font></a></font></b></i></P></TD><TD ALIGN=3D"left" WIDTH=3D"97" H=
EIGHT=3D"1"><IMG BORDER=3D"0" SRC=3D"http://mysite.verizon.net/web2434j/ne=
wstats.jpg" WIDTH=3D"97" HEIGHT=3D"73"></TD></TR></TABLE><ul><li><b>Recent=
ly acquired more than $10 M in real estate assets</b></li> </ul><ul><li><b=
>Rising prices of California real property</b></li> </ul><ul><li><b>Demand=
 for affordable housing is soaring due to immigration.</b></li> </ul><ul><=
li><font class=3D"MsoNormal" face=3D! "Times New Roman, Times, serif" size=
=3D"3"><b>This is an </b><strong>early stage opportunity</strong><b> with =
good upside potential.</b></font></li> </ul><ul><li><b>Real estate may pro=
vide assets that allow for a listing on a major exchange</b></li></ul><p a=
lign=3D"center"><i><b><font size=3D"5" color=3D"#006600"><u>Conclusion</u>=
:</font></b></i></p><p><b>Real estate is the traditional hard asset and it=
 is the foundation of World Associates, Inc. The strength and potential fo=
r growth embodied by the current real estate market, dictates that this se=
ctor be in the spotlight for creating value.</b></p><p><b>The Savvy Invest=
or chooses its first pick of the New Year - World Associates Inc. (WAIV). =
With their strategic positioning and acquisitions WAIV is sure to move to =
the forefront of the sector. In an unstable market - its a necessity to ad=
d strong stocks to your portfolio.</b></p><p><b>This has been the February=
 Edition of The Savvy Investor Newsletter.</b></p><p align=3D"center"><b><=
fo nt face=3D"Times New Roman, Times, serif"><img border=3D"0" src=3D"http=
://mysite.verizon.net/web2434j/sig.jpg" width=3D"134" height=3D"76">Editin=
g Chairman</font></b></p></TD></tr></table></td></tr></table></div></td></=
tr><tr><td vAlign=3Dtop align=3Dleft height=3D30 width=3D701><form method=3D=
"POST" enctype=3D"text/plain" action=3D"mailto:web242ry@verizon.net?subjec=
t=3DRegister"><p><b><font color=3D"#006600">Join our premiere update and g=
et a sneak preview of upcoming reports.</font> </b><input type=3D"submit" =
value=3D" CLICK HERE and OK" name=3D"submit "></p></form></td></tr><tr><td=
 height=3D23 width=3D701><font face=3DArial size=3D2>Disclaimer:</font><p>=
<font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times New Roman, Times, serif">The Savvy Investor=
 Newsletter</font><font size=3D2>&nbsp;provides information on selected co=
mpanies that it believes has investment potential. </font><font size=3D"2"=
 face=3D"Times New Roman, Times, serif">The&nbsp; Savvy Investor Newslette=
r</font><font size=3D2>&nbsp;is not a registered investment advisor or bro=
ker - dealer. This report is provided as an information service only, and =
the statements and opinions in this report should not be construed as an o=
ffer or solicitation to buy or sell any security. </font><font size=3D"2" =
face=3D"Times New Roman, Times, serif">Savvy Investor Newsletter </font><f=
ont size=3D2>accepts no liability for any loss arising from an investors r=
eliance on or use of this report. An investment in WAIV is considered to b=
e highly speculative and should not be considered unless a person can affo=
rd a complete loss of investment. </font><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Times Ne=
w Roman, Times, serif">The Savvy Investor Newsletter </font><font size=3D2=
>&nbsp;has been retained to distribute this report on WAIV and has been pa=
id fifteen hundred dollars by a third party. This report involves forward =
looking statements, which involve risk, and uncertainties that may cause a=
ctual results to differ materially from those set forth in the forward - l=
ooking statements. For further details concerning these risks and uncertai=
nties, see the SEC filings of WAIV including the company's most recent <a =
href=3D"http://cbs.marketwatch.com/tools/quotes/secfilings.asp?siteid=3Dmk=
tw&&symb=3DWAIV&sid=3D476193">annual and quarterly reports</a>.</font></td=
></tr><tr><td vAlign=3Dtop align=3Dleft height=3D23 width=3D701><font size=
=3D2>If you feel that this service is no longer of benefit to you, and you=
 do not want to be notified along with the investors on this list, please&=
nbsp; </font><SPAN CLASS=3D"c10"><font size=3D"2"><a href=3D"http://mysite=
verizon.net/web2434j/service.htm">CLICK HERE</a></font> </SPAN><font size=
=3D2>NOTE: By blocking your email address from the recipients you will no =
longer receive your FREE company advisory nor your FREE company update in =
the Future.</font></td></tr></table></td></tr></table></body></html>

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Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:08:14 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
Subject: Re: eccentric
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

>It's closer to seven hours, according to a coworker who has driven to Bar
>Harbor.
>
>When I go in July, that will be the longest drive I've ever done.
>
>--Adam
>adamh1@attbi.com

Easterners. :-)

Ken Miller
Thomas Hornsby Ferril School of Western Studies

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 00:13:46 2003
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X-Clifford-Stoll: One smidgen equals 7.25 trifles
X-Clyde-Voigtlander: If it weren't for the subversives therein,
                     no bureaucracy would ever work
X-Edward-Abbey: History demonstrates that personal liberty is a rare and
                precious thing
Date: Mon, 3 Mar 2003 22:09:13 -0800
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Bookrat <bookrat@bookrat.com>
Subject: Re: eccentric
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

>Ha, ha. I meant are there service plazas along the highway versus having to
>get off at an exit and hunt for a gas station.
>
>--Adam

Easterners. :-)

Ken Miller
Thomas Hornsby Ferril School of Western Studies

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 07:11:53 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
Message-ID: <20030304071153.A24771@yoccoz.multinix.com>
References: <194296244827.20030302195811@WordWrite.com>
            <3E62B712.21B4A991@valstar.net>
            <124296581221.20030302200347@WordWrite.com>
            <20030303032754.GJ19974@pobox.com>
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             Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 03:52:38PM -0600
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

Tushar Samant:
= 02003-03-03 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
= > = > PULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEE take me to
= > = > Charlie Trotter's!
= > =
= > = I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.
= >
= > They're not taking her, you are.
=
= I thought YOU are.

I'd love to, but the chances of me being welcome in Chicago at
Christmas are zip.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 01:39:09 2003
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:36:25 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
Message-ID: <20030304083625.A24908@yoccoz.multinix.com>
References: <200303031432.18PYtB4sn3NZFlq0@merlin>
            <a05200f22ba8988e04ada@[67.118.125.98]>
            <5.1.0.14.0.20030303174438.00b55968@mail.panax.com>
            <3E63E792.4000908@swbell.net> <20030304003240.GE24225@pobox.com>
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In-Reply-To: <18284130182.20030303202722@WordWrite.com>; from
             Karen@WORDWRITE.COM on Mon, Mar 03, 2003 at 08:27:22PM -0600
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

Karen Kay:
= Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:18:11 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
= > Thank you, K-R-N!
=
= If you really appreciated me, you'd use all the letters of my
= name.
=

Yeah, what is this passive agressive shit I get from one of my
colleagues where he refuses to spell my name right in an email,
even though it's in each and every one as an example?

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 01:54:35 2003
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 08:51:58 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Attn: Natalie UPDATE
Message-ID: <20030304085158.B24908@yoccoz.multinix.com>
References: <4.2.2.20030228071956.00ad6190@uclink.berkeley.edu>
            <3E5F7E31.A9DBF4F2@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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In-Reply-To: <3E64175C.AB42F6C2@maynor.net>; from natalie@MAYNOR.NET on Mon,
             Mar 03, 2003 at 09:02:52PM -0600
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

Natalie Maynor:
= Betty wrote:
= > How far away is it?
=
=   110 White Dr
=   Starkville, MS 39759-2635 US
=
=   [100-139] Main St
=   Bay Saint Louis, MS  39520 US
=
=   Total Distance: 290.83 miles
=   Total Estimated Time: 5 hours, 42 minutes
=
= from:
= http://www.mapquest.com/directions/main.adp?go=1&do=nw&1n=OKTIBBEHA+COUNTY&ct=NA&1y=US&1a=110+WHITE+DR&1p=&1c=STARKVILLE&1s=MS&1z=39759-2635&2ex=1&2y=US&2aa=r57Wf%252fBjJiCUR02typrJ9q3B3xJXgyiWNOk2T7iGKtICuHQcflHEjTQC8CJqft26C8cis%252fpvcsDyi4il4ctiVbfiuC%252bwRdFl7aiejT9fIAE%253d&2c=Bay+St.+Louis&2s=MS&2z=&lr=2&x=57&y=15

Allow me to introduce you to shorl:  http://shorl.com

http://shorl.com/fedufrapifreri

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 02:14:36 2003
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:11:58 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: eccentric
Message-ID: <20030304091158.C24908@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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            <3E641D8A.2185FBBA@maynor.net>
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In-Reply-To: <3E641D8A.2185FBBA@maynor.net>; from natalie@MAYNOR.NET on Mon,
             Mar 03, 2003 at 09:29:14PM -0600
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

Natalie Maynor:
= Adam Hartfield wrote:
=
= > Ha, ha. I meant are there service plazas along the highway versus having to
= > get off at an exit and hunt for a gas station.
=
= I associate service plazas with parkways -- with toll roads.  But that's
= right -- lots of ordinary interstates in New England are toll roads off
= and on.  I'd forgotten that.  I'd rather exit for gas than go to a
= service plaza.  Don't know why.  But I don't go hunting for them -- I
= exit when I see familiar gas signs in the air (or sometimes read the
= little signs on highways that have little signs telling you what kind of
= gas is at the next exit).
=

That's not hunting.  In California you have to get off the
highway, but the gas stations are right there.  In the
Netherlands, you better get gas at the service plaza or you will
go hunting.  A long time, too.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 05:46:11 2003
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From: "Dan Potter" <savmiass@planet.net.hk>
Subject: Holly Cow Man27469
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 03:12:54 -2000
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 05:55:25 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 05:51:24 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Vizslas
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Reply-to: rouvalis@swbell.net
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        I know lots of Viszlas.  They're a Hungarian pointer.  They
hunt game birds.  Vinnie is out with them all the time.
Their popularity is in on the increase. They are very sweet,
but like all the hunting breeds, need a lot of exercise.
Would make a nice running companion.  I don't know how they
are with kids -- most of the people with kids I know who
hunt have setters or pointers.

Marie Ascher wrote:

>> From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>> Marie Ascher wrote:
>> >
>> > These are my new favorite dogs:
>> > http://www.hometown.aol.com/szizlin3/HomePage.html
>>
>> Are they alive?  They look like statues.
>
>
> They are pointers. Something must have had their attention. Here's the
> babies:
> http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery/view?p=12&uid=513743&gid=1741879&
>
> She has that statue thing going on here too, huh? Very good posture. I've
> actually never hung out with one of these dogs, but I've heard they are
> very
> energetic and friendly.
>
> Marie
>   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 05:55:23 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Theodora Groothof wrote:

> In a message dated 3/3/2003 4:41:54 PM, rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:
>
> <<        Oh, please.  I wouldn't stoop to reading Arthur C. Clarke or
> Heinlein.  I do know my Milton, however.
>  >>
>
> Stoop? If you never read it, how can you judge it? Theo


        I have credentials from two universities and the state of
Missouri.  If you're a computer expert, then I know all
there is to know about literature.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: Investment <jilteds33@houdtvan.je>
To: billing@netplus.net
Cc: yuehjyh@ms8.hinet.net, limapaca66@yahoo.com, jeremey@nci2000.net,
   beaumont7@cvn.net, sldowning@aol.com, words-l@uga.cc.uga.edu,
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   safecolo96@aol.com
Message-ID: <0000073c5344$00001109$000029b1@gregsc.com.pl>
Subject: you can do alot7846
Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2003 04:49:36 -2000
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<html>

<head>

<meta name=3D"GENERATOR" content=3D"Microsoft FrontPage 4.0">
<meta name=3D"ProgId" content=3D"FrontPage.Editor.Document">
<title>The Time for INVESTING is NOW</title>
</head>

<body>

<p><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#006500" size=3D"5">The =
Time for
INVESTING is NOW!</font></b></p>
<p><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#006500" size=3D"4">If =
you read the
paper or listen to the news, you know that the Stock Market is taking a =
severe
beating.</font></b></p>
<p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">If you =
own a few stocks
or have a full stock portfolio, I'm sure you've noticed that your =
stocks are no
longer worth what they were just a few days ago.&nbsp;</font></p>
<p><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#006500" =
size=3D"4">Why?</font></b></p>
<p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#000000" size=3D"3">The =
daily threat of WAR
looming over our heads is causing many people to run scared, selling =
their
stocks as fast as they can out of fear that they may be worthless =
tomorrow</font></p>
<p><b><font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#006500" size=3D"4">This =
gives you the
perfect opportunity to take advantage of these incredibly low stock =
prices to
make a lot of money! You just need to know what stocks to =
BUY!</font></b></p>
<p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D"3">Investors who are still =
making money in
the stock market are those who know what stocks are in play or stocks =
that are
about to be promoted / syndicated. By now you probably realize that =
stocks don't
just go up, but are pushed up by brokerage firms that give companies =
exposure
and analyst coverage, in other words, they promote them! To make money, =
an
investor needs to buy at the beginning of the PUSH and sell within a =
60-day
period.<br>
<br>
We report on which stocks are being pushed and at what price levels to =
buy and
sell at.</font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#006500" =
size=3D"4"><b>Investment Strategy
Update: (OTC BB: LAIR)&nbsp;<br>
STRONG BUY RECOMMENDATION</b></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Times New Roman"><font size=3D"3"><b>Investment =
Timeline - A
listing of the significant&nbsp;events projected to occur at the =
Company (OTC
BB: LAIR)&nbsp;over the next 30, 60 and 90 days. Check this =
schedule&nbsp;to
review unfolding events and new additions to the&nbsp;exciting events
surrounding the Spring 2003 launch of&nbsp;L-Air's Belgian Universal =
Airway</b></font>.<br>
<br>
<b><font color=3D"#006500" size=3D"4">February 24th (OTC BB: LAIR) This =
Weeks
Expected Events and Announcements</font></b><br>
<br>
<b><font size=3D"3">* Funding:</font></b> <font size=3D"3">Private =
placements
totaling US $10M, with the initial $2M to be deposited into =
Belgian&nbsp;Universal's
account this week.</font><br>
<br>
<b><font size=3D"3">* Facilities:</font></b> <font size=3D"3">Belgian =
Universal
Airways' to execute&nbsp;lease this week for Belgian Hub facilities of =
10,000
square feet in Brussels Intl. Airport.</font><br>
<br>
<b><font size=3D"3">* Press Conference:</font> </b><font =
size=3D"3">Belgian
Universal Airways' press&nbsp;conference at new facilities at the =
Company's Hub
in Brussels, Belgium, this week.</font><br>
<br>
<b><font size=3D"3">* Air Operating Certificate:</font> </b><font =
size=3D"3">Company
meets with Belgian Civil Aviation Agency on Tuesday. Based upon =
talks&nbsp;with
Civil Aviation, the Company expects to have its&nbsp;Air Operating =
Certificate (AOC)
in hand within 60-days for an April launch of its first =
flights.</font><br>
<br>
<font size=3D"3">These events, to be announced as they actually =
take&nbsp;place
this week, will allow the Company to sign&nbsp;contracts for ACMI =
charter
operations for passenger&nbsp;traffic as well as cargo service =
contracts
totaling&nbsp;more than an estimated US $30M in annual revenue. These =
contracts
are similar to the already announced contract for US $18M with the =
Brussels
based Tour Operator VGAA&nbsp;N.V., with registered office at 400 =
Leopold I,
represented by Mr. H. YERISTAN.</font><br>
<br>
<font size=3D"3">L-Air Holding, Inc., (OTC BB: LAIR) owns 49% =
of&nbsp;Belgian
Universal Airways, while 51% of the Company is owned by European =
investors, as
mandated by European air authority regulation.</font></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#006500" size=3D"4"><b>For =
more information
on this company you can check out some recent articles and press =
releases at
this site:</b></font></p>
<p><font face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3D"#006500" =
size=3D"4"><b>biz.yahoo.com/bw/030214/142230_1.html</b></font></p>
<font face=3D"Times New Roman">
<p><br>
<br>
<font =
size=3D"1">***********************Disclaimer********************<br>
Information within this email contains &quot;forward looking =
statements&quot;
within the meaning of Section 27A of the&nbsp;Securities Act of 1933 =
and Section
21B of the&nbsp;Securities Exchange Act of 1934. Any statements =
that&nbsp;express
or involve discussions with respect to&nbsp;predictions, expectations, =
beliefs,
plans,&nbsp;projections, objectives, goals, assumptions or =
future&nbsp;events or
performance are not statements of historical fact and may be =
&quot;forward
looking statements.&quot;<br>
<br>
Forward looking statements are based on expectations, estimates and =
projections
at the time the statements&nbsp;are made that involve a number of risks =
and&nbsp;uncertainties
which could cause actual results or&nbsp;events to differ materially =
from those
presently&nbsp;anticipated. Forward looking statements in this action =
may be
identified through the use of words such as&nbsp;&quot;projects&quot;,
&quot;foresee&quot;, &quot;expects&quot;, =
&quot;will,&quot;&nbsp;&quot;anticipates,&quot;
&quot;estimates,&quot; &quot;believes,&quot; &quot;understands&quot; or =
that by
statements indicating certain actions&nbsp;&quot;may,&quot; =
&quot;could,&quot;
or &quot;might&quot; occur. All information&nbsp;provided within this =
email
pertaining to investing,&nbsp;stocks, securities must be understood as
information&nbsp;provided and not investment advice. Emerging =
Equity&nbsp;Alert
advises all readers and subscribers to seek&nbsp;advice from a =
registered
professional securities&nbsp;representative before deciding to trade in =
stocks&nbsp;featured
within this email. None of the material within this report shall be =
construed as
any kind of investment advice.<br>
<br>
In compliance with the Securities Act of 1933, Section17(b), =
Undervalued Weekly
Reporter discloses the&nbsp;receipt of 167,500 unrestricted shares of =
LAIR from
a&nbsp;third party for the publication of this report. Be&nbsp;aware of =
an
inherent conflict of interest resulting&nbsp;from such compensation due =
to our
intent to profit from the liquidation of these shares. Shares may be =
sold at any
time, even after positive statements have been made regarding the above =
company.
All factual information in this report was gathered from public =
sources,
including&nbsp;but not limited to SEC filings, Company Press =
Releases,&nbsp;and
Market Guide.&nbsp;<br>
<br>
Undervalued Weekly Reporter believes this information&nbsp;to be =
reliable but
can make no guarantee as to its&nbsp;accuracy or completeness. Use of =
the
material within&nbsp;this email constitutes your acceptance of these =
terms<br>
<br>
****** Advertising Disclaimer ******<br>
<br>
We have received monetary payment for this mailing&nbsp;service. We =
hold no
stocks and hold no personal interest in this or any other company in =
this
advertisement.<br>
<br>
****** Remove instructions*********<br>
This message has been sent to you in compliance with our strict =
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ont></p>
<p><font size=3D"1">This message is an advertisement. Copyright 2000, =
2001, 2002
all rights reserved.</font></p>
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</body>

</html>

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 06:52:14 2003
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Message-ID: <3E64A068.682D4321@maynor.net>
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 06:47:36 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:
> >None of them are smiling, though.  They all look <earnest>, even the
> >puppies.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/mnchstrvizsla/Odinn.html
>
> :-)

They are indeed wise not to smile!

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 06:48:46 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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References: <4.2.2.20030228071956.00ad6190@uclink.berkeley.edu>
            <3E5F7E31.A9DBF4F2@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
            <2885403403.20030228092357@WordWrite.com>
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            <Pine.A41.4.53.0302280951410.14049438@neo1>
            <Pine.A41.4.53.0302281347210.1409220@neo1>
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steph wrote:

> Allow me to introduce you to shorl:  http://shorl.com

Why?  Clicking on the url I pasted onto that message works fine.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 06:50:05 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: eccentric
References: <BFEMJMJCLCODCNHLHBIGKEPBHJAA.adamh1@attbi.com>
            <3E641D8A.2185FBBA@maynor.net>
            <20030304091158.C24908@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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steph wrote:
> = > Ha, ha. I meant are there service plazas along the highway versus having to
> = > get off at an exit and hunt for a gas station.
> =
> = I associate service plazas with parkways -- with toll roads.  But that's
> = right -- lots of ordinary interstates in New England are toll roads off
> = and on.  I'd forgotten that.  I'd rather exit for gas than go to a
> = service plaza.  Don't know why.  But I don't go hunting for them -- I
> = exit when I see familiar gas signs in the air (or sometimes read the
> = little signs on highways that have little signs telling you what kind of
> = gas is at the next exit).
> =
>
> That's not hunting.

?  That's why I said "I don't go hunting for them."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Attn: Natalie UPDATE
Message-ID: <20030304143523.A25586@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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Natalie Maynor:
= steph wrote:
=
= > Allow me to introduce you to shorl:  http://shorl.com
=
= Why?  Clicking on the url I pasted onto that message works fine.
=
= --
=  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)


Not everyone is so lucky.  Besides it looks butt ugly, and you
still can't click on it at the msstate archive.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 07:38:56 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Light
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:34:20 +0000
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Change the clocks already! Feels like it's time to do it now.

First week of April is too late to move to Daylight Savings Time.
It should be done a week or two early. How does one get this
process rolling?

-rashmi

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 07:40:00 2003
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Janet,
we've been through expensive extended illness with several animals, and
feel as you do - when they become uninterested in food or affection, then
it's time to say goodbye. One cat with cancer cost more than the mortgage
for 6 mos...

 I know a lot of other people feel it's a racket for the vets and a woosy
way to behave, but do what you feel you have to do.
clo

On Mon, 3 Mar 2003, Janet Hardy wrote:
> >
> >It's just a cat.  Have him put down.  He's no longer "Happy".  Even if he
> >is and you're not, that's reason enough.  Free yourself.  Move on.
>
> I can't bring myself to kill an essentially healthy animal. He seems
> reasonably "Happy" -- still wants to be petted, still grooms himself,
> still comes into the kitchen every morning and evening to demand his
> insulin and the kitty treats that follow it. I've already made the
> determination that I won't put him through another invasive procedure
> like surgery or catheterization, but as long as his symptoms can be
> controlled with antibiotics and muscle relaxants, putting him down
> would be for my convenience, not his comfort -- and I'm not OK with
> that.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 07:42:36 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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>Ha, ha. I meant are there service plazas along the highway versus having to
>get off at an exit and hunt for a gas station.
>
>--Adam

>Easterners. :-)

Driving in New England summer is the pits. Aaargh - I remember many hours
of barely moving traffic in RI. I'm not looking forward to getting to BH.

-rahsmi



_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 07:46:20 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:41:43 -0500
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>From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET>
>        I know lots of Viszlas.  They're a Hungarian pointer.  They
>hunt game birds.  Vinnie is out with them all the time.
>Their popularity is in on the increase. They are very sweet,
>but like all the hunting breeds, need a lot of exercise.
>Would make a nice running companion.

I need a running companion.

What's your opinion on "invisible fences"?

I don't know how they
>are with kids -- most of the people with kids I know who
>hunt have setters or pointers.

Everything I've read is positive about their behavior toward people in
general. They are giant (well not that giant) athletic lap dogs.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 07:46:53 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:41:23 -0500
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Ashcroft still at it
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At 07:23 AM 3/2/2003 -0500, you wrote:
>http://www.aclu.org/SafeandFree/SafeandFree.cfm?ID=11904
>
>Ashcroft is now offering up US Patriot Act II. This will further
>infringe upon US citizens' privacy and civil liberties. If you care, you
>can send free faxes to your senators and congressperson at the above
>site. There is a pre-written letter, or you can write your own.
>
>alyce

Serious question here.. What impact does sending a pre-written letter have?

The only way I can see this "making a difference" is by the volume of
letters/faxes/emails the senator or rep. receives. I guess that's the point
though, to have your voice heard.

lisa

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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> Change the clocks already! Feels like it's time to do it now.
>
> First week of April is too late to move to Daylight Savings Time.
> It should be done a week or two early. How does one get this
> process rolling?

Make a case for it being an anti-terorism measure.

BrP




>
> -rashmi
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
> http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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>From: Rashmi Murthy <rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Driving in New England summer is the pits. Aaargh - I remember many hours
>of barely moving traffic in RI. I'm not looking forward to getting to BH.

Drive at night. Every trip I took to BH was overnight -- no problem.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Natalie Maynor:
= steph wrote:
= > = > Ha, ha. I meant are there service plazas along the highway versus having to
= > = > get off at an exit and hunt for a gas station.
= > =
= > = I associate service plazas with parkways -- with toll roads.  But that's
= > = right -- lots of ordinary interstates in New England are toll roads off
= > = and on.  I'd forgotten that.  I'd rather exit for gas than go to a
= > = service plaza.  Don't know why.  But I don't go hunting for them -- I
= > = exit when I see familiar gas signs in the air (or sometimes read the
= > = little signs on highways that have little signs telling you what kind of
= > = gas is at the next exit).
= > =
= >
= > That's not hunting.
=
= ?  That's why I said "I don't go hunting for them."
=

I dunno what I meant anymore.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 07:56:21 2003
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From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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At 01:37 PM 3/4/2003 +0000, rashmi wrote:
>>Ha, ha. I meant are there service plazas along the highway versus having to
>>get off at an exit and hunt for a gas station.
>>
>>--Adam
>
>>Easterners. :-)
>
>Driving in New England summer is the pits. Aaargh - I remember many hours
>of barely moving traffic in RI. I'm not looking forward to getting to BH.

I don't suppose that there is an easy route for you, i.e., one that doesn't
go through Boston, is there?  Boston to Portland and environs can be
bad.  After that, it's fairly easy going to Bangor, where (for you coming
to BH) the interstate ends and the 2-lane roads begin.

cwv

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 08:06:14 2003
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From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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>Driving in New England summer is the pits. Aaargh - I remember many hours
>of barely moving traffic in RI. I'm not looking forward to getting to BH.
>-rahsmi

 From my experience, the only spot that you might hit that kind of traffic
in Maine is the stretch from the Mass border to Portland.  There are
bottlenecks where you must throw quarters into bins.   The Interstate from
Portland to Bangor is usually moving nicely.   The alternate route, Highway
1 along the coast, has a huge bottleneck in Camden, Maine.   From Bangor to
Bar Harbor, there will be traffic.  But I've never heard of it "barely
moving for hours".

People who live around here, like Natalie's friends across the bay from us,
complain mightily about the summer tourist traffic.  But if you've ever
lived in or near a large US city, you recognize that the summer traffic
here really isn't bad at all.  It isn't even as bad as Smokey Mountain
National Park was during summer holidays.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 08:07:43 2003
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>Drive at night. Every trip I took to BH was overnight -- no problem.
>Marie

Except during black fly season when the moose stand on I-95 to escape the
biting flies in the forests.


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 08:09:10 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 09:03:40 -0500
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Subject: Lysistrata
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Did any other wordslers view or participate in Lysistrata performances yesterday?  Well,
I know clo did because she was in the audience at the Syracuse/Synergy performance.

:-)



http://www.lysistrataproject.org/

It was a wonderful silly experience with a serious message.  I have to say this is the first
time I have ever appeared on stage in a toga and a three foot phallus.


BrP

"A sword? What sword?"

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 08:14:27 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 09:09:32 -0500
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   And it - I mean he - was beautiful to behold!
clo

"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:

> Did any other wordslers view or participate in Lysistrata performances yesterday?  Well,
> I know clo did because she was in the audience at the Syracuse/Synergy performance.
>
> :-)
>
> http://www.lysistrataproject.org/
>
> It was a wonderful silly experience with a serious message.  I have to say this is the first
> time I have ever appeared on stage in a toga and a three foot phallus.
>
> BrP
>
> "A sword? What sword?"

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 08:19:12 2003
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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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I love you clo


>    And it - I mean he - was beautiful to behold!
> clo
>
> "Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> > Did any other wordslers view or participate in Lysistrata performances yesterday?  Well,
> > I know clo did because she was in the audience at the Syracuse/Synergy performance.
> >
> > :-)
> >
> > http://www.lysistrataproject.org/
> >
> > It was a wonderful silly experience with a serious message.  I have to say this is the first
> > time I have ever appeared on stage in a toga and a three foot phallus.
> >
> > BrP
> >
> > "A sword? What sword?"

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 08:19:13 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 07:12:24 -0700
From: "John Williams" <williams@mail.mc.maricopa.edu>
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Bookrat wrote:

> Easterners. :-)

    Yea, squared.

JMW

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steph wrote:

> Not everyone is so lucky.  Besides it looks butt ugly, and you
> still can't click on it at the msstate archive.

I've never noticed being able to click on any urls there.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: Jim Bradley <fna104@uriacc.uri.edu>
Subject: Re: Light
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

>Change the clocks already! Feels like it's time to do it now.
>
>First week of April is too late to move to Daylight Savings Time.
>It should be done a week or two early. How does one get this
>process rolling?

Have an energy crisis. Oops, I guess we'er well on the way.

/Jim

>
>-rashmi
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Protect your PC - get McAfee.com VirusScan Online
>http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:19:21 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> Driving in New England summer is the pits. Aaargh - I remember many hours
> of barely moving traffic in RI. I'm not looking forward to getting to BH.

The only time I've ever noticed any driving problem was on I-95 in
southern Maine one time when the traffic was stopped for ages, for
reasons I never figured out.  All of my other summer-in-NewEngland
driving experiences have been fine.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:22:10 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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lisa alfieri wrote:

> The only way I can see this "making a difference" is by the volume of
> letters/faxes/emails the senator or rep. receives. I guess that's the point
> though, to have your voice heard.

Yes.  It's a numbers thing.  I doubt that it makes the least bit of
difference whether it's a prefab letter or a carefully crafted personal
one.  A low-level clerical worker glances at it, tallies it, does the
automatic response thing, and that's that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:25:46 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:

> Drive at night. Every trip I took to BH was overnight -- no problem.

Ugh.  I would've landed in the Atlantic if using that method.  But
really -- I've driven to the BH area at least three times and had no
problem at all except for that one weird traffic stoppage.  And if you
head northwest from there, you'll find the roads almost deserted.
There's not exactly a long queue of cars at the Canadian border at
Jackman.  And that reminds me that I should plan on hopping up to Quebec
after Acadiafest.  I love that so many interesting places are so close
together in that neck of the woods.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: Attn: Natalie UPDATE
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Natalie Maynor:
= steph wrote:
=
= > Not everyone is so lucky.  Besides it looks butt ugly, and you
= > still can't click on it at the msstate archive.
=
= I've never noticed being able to click on any urls there.
=

I meant, it's difficult to cut and paste from there if needed.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:28:57 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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bonniev wrote:

> People who live around here, like Natalie's friends across the bay from us,
> complain mightily about the summer tourist traffic.  But if you've ever

I've never heard them complain about the summer tourist traffic -- as in
the cars.  They say they don't go to BH in summer, but I took that to
mean because of the people milling around, not the cars.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 09:16:14 2003
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While we are talking about it, I've drawn a map to Bar Harbor and to our
house, including the location of the Edenbrook Motel, where Adam and
perhaps others are planning to stay.
http://www.acadia.net/edenbrook/

Tushar, Mem  --  where should I email this map so you can add it to the
acadiafest link??

Or I can email it to anyone who wants it personally.

    --bonniev

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Vizslas
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:14:26 -0500
Organization: University of Pennsylvania
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>
>These are my new favorite dogs:
>http://www.hometown.aol.com/szizlin3/HomePage.html
>
>This breeder has puppies right now, but it won't be practical for us to
>adopt a puppy until the end of the summer. But I am sooooo
>tempted. Look how
>sweet!
>
>Marie
>   lounge_ascher@hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
Looks like a fun dog. AKC info is
http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/vizsla.cfm

>From the website

Temperament

A natural hunter endowed with a good nose and above-average ability to take
training. Lively, gentle-mannered, demonstrably affectionate and sensitive
though fearless with a well developed protective instinct. Shyness, timidity
or nervousness should be penalized.



later,



alec

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: bonniev <bonniev@panax.com>
Subject: Re: I've drawn a map
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Note also that there is a map on the Chamber of Commerce site.   If you go
directly to:

http://www.barharborinfo.com/gettinghere_frame.html

and scan down to Downtown Bar Harbor, you will see our neighborhood on the
very bottom edge of the map in the middle.

The Chamber maps even shows the parking lots in Bar Harbor.    Parking in
our neighborhood, by the way, might be a problem.  Our driveway will only
fit one car in addition to our own.  The rest will have to try to park on
the street without totally blocking traffic.   Narrow streets, no
sidewalks, no parking spots.  Of course, one can always leave cars at
motels and take the free bus shuttle.

I just say the Fest Faq on the words-l web page.   Nicely done.   Was that
you, Mem?


    --bonniev

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 09:58:12 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:35:49 -0500
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>From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU>
>Looks like a fun dog. AKC info is
>http://www.akc.org/breeds/recbreeds/vizsla.cfm

Yep. I've read it.

Marie

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:22:56 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Alec D. Plotkin" wrote:
> A natural hunter endowed with a good nose

The only trouble with hunters with good noses is that you might have to
keep him on a leash or fenced it. Hunters like to take off to follow a
scent and can be far afield in a short while. Maybe good training can
prevent that, I dunno.

Rita may contradict me and she knows a lot about dogs. I speak only from
my sister's and my experience: Beagles, labs, retrievers.

alyce

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: FW: Vizsla
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:46:02 -0500
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>Good.  Vislas are really nice dogs..... but VERY active.
>
A friend who is a Vet says the above comment.


alec


------------
Alec D. Plotkin
plotkina@isc.upenn.edu

"Peace cannot be kept by force.  It can only be achieved by understanding" -
Albert Einstein

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
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>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
>The only trouble with hunters with good noses is that you might have to
>keep him on a leash or fenced it. Hunters like to take off to follow a
>scent and can be far afield in a short while. Maybe good training can
>prevent that, I dunno.

I've heard that's a HUGE problem with hounds. In any case, that's why I
asked about invisible fences. I don't really want a visible fence. But I
think no matter the dog, I'd want some sort of containment.

I've heard that you need to train a dog to deal with an invisible fence, and
that they work well. But then I've also heard that hunting dogs tend to run
right through them once they've got themselves locked in on their prey.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 10:22:48 2003
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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Marieber:

> >Driving in New England summer is the pits. Aaargh - I remember many hours
> >of barely moving traffic in RI. I'm not looking forward to getting to BH.

>Drive at night. Every trip I took to BH was overnight -- no problem.

You are very smart!!!! Why didn't I think of this? No problem indeed.

-rashmi




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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:22:16 -0500
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On Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 13:34, Rashmi Murthy wrote:

> Change the clocks already! Feels like it's time to do it now.
>
> First week of April is too late to move to Daylight Savings Time.

Yes! I've been ranting about this for years.

> It should be done a week or two early. How does one get this
> process rolling?

Logically it should be done on the last Sunday of February. That is,
if the light conditions call for it to end on the last Sunday of
October, then conditions change back (rounded to the nearest week) on
the last Sunday of Feb.

But how to get it rolling... Not much chance, I'd say, when you're
dealing with people who still think cows care about DST.

Tony H.

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alyce cresap wrote:

> The only trouble with hunters with good noses is that you might have to
> keep him on a leash or fenced it. Hunters like to take off to follow a
> scent and can be far afield in a short while. Maybe good training can
> prevent that, I dunno.

I can't imagine letting a dog run loose except in the country.  Even the
best-trained dog might suddenly decide to wander across a street.  (We
had loose dogs in my early childhood, so I guess I can "imagine" it.
But we stopped that when I was about six or seven.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:
>  But then I've also heard that hunting dogs tend to run
> right through them once they've got themselves locked in on their prey.

Yes. I have heard  that too. The wonder of the scent is more than enough
to offset a moment of electric shock.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:40:21 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Light
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>Change the clocks already! Feels like it's time to do it now.
>
>First week of April is too late to move to Daylight Savings Time.
>It should be done a week or two early. How does one get this
>process rolling?

They tried it once, back in (?) the 80s, and it caused so much
trouble (schoolkids having to stand out for the bus in the dark,
etc.) that they took it back. I loved it. And I agree, it's
definitely time to make the change now. In fact, when I started
reading your post, I thought briefly that you meant it *was* time,
and I had a lovely moment of exultation.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 10:46:40 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:43:44 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Vizslas
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>Rita may contradict me and she knows a lot about dogs. I speak only from
>my sister's and my experience: Beagles, labs, retrievers.

Hounds are all wanderers -- I once had to give up a basset because he
wouldn't stay put (I gave him to the family he kept wandering off to
see, who lived four or five miles away and owned a female basset).
But I didn't know that about labs and retrievers -- Lynn's golden
retriever Yaddi doesn't wander, and Amy is downright agoraphobic --
doesn't want to be more than 20 feet away from me at any time.

Janet

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Subject: Pyncheon penchant?
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Is there anybody on the list who reads and appreciates Thomas
Pyncheon, and feels they could give advice to someone who
must read Gravity's Rainbow and is having a hard time
getting a handle on it? We're talking someone who is way
more interested in reading primary documents on medieval
events, and as light reading prefers Austen or, at most modern,
Wodehouse. Not looking for assistance on the paper, but assistance in
comprehending a text of a previously unencountered genre (sort of like
trying to learn to appreciate techno - hey!)

(ps it's not myself; but I haven't read it yet and so can't be helpful.)

Thanks in advance for any insights

clo
waiting for the novocaine to wear off after dental emergency...

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 10:52:18 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 08:49:25 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Pyncheon penchant?
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clo --

I've forwarded your post to my friend Paul, a Pynchon fan. Hope it works out.

Janet

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 10:54:50 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:49:40 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
> I can't imagine letting a dog run loose except in the country.

Marie lives in the country, almost. My parents' dogs always were
unleashed and with us when we were out in the yard (no fences). I think
that is pretty common, even not in the country.

alyce

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 10:57:31 2003
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> On Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 13:34, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> > Change the clocks already! Feels like it's time to do it now.
> >
> > First week of April is too late to move to Daylight Savings Time.

    Daylight Savings Time?  What on Earth is that?

JMW

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 10:58:29 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Pyncheon penchant?
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:53:48 -0500
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>From: clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU
>Is there anybody on the list who reads and appreciates Thomas
>Pyncheon, and feels they could give advice to someone who
>must read Gravity's Rainbow and is having a hard time
>getting a handle on it?

Paging Neal Traven. Richard Scheidt?

I couldn't do it. Are you doing this to yourself for the same reason as the
techno music?

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 10:59:41 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:55:01 -0500
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>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
Amy is downright agoraphobic --
>doesn't want to be more than 20 feet away from me at any time.

Which jives with what I've heard about Vizslas. They don't go too far
because they love to be with their people.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 11:00:10 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
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>From: Janet Hardy <verdie@EARTHLINK.NET>
Amy is downright agoraphobic --
>doesn't want to be more than 20 feet away from me at any time.

Which jives with what I've heard about Vizslas. They don't go too far
because they love to be with their people.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 11:03:41 2003
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 10:59:03 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Or are other people getting duplicates of some list postings?

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:59:09 -0500
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>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
>Marie lives in the country, almost.

Well, uh, loose suburbs anyway. Bruce thinks we live "in the woods" but it's
not quite like that, it's just a little untamed. However, my street is
cul-de-sac'ed on both ends and some dogs do roam free -- Simon, the beagle
next door whose visits I've described -- and the two "Domino" dalmatians.
But there are some fairly well-travelled roads right through the trees.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 11:09:45 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:03:15 +0200
From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@akad.ee>
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John Williams wrote:

>     Daylight Savings Time?  What on Earth is that?

Just a time to put as much of daylight as possible into big jars to keep
it there till one is short of it.

Kr.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 11:14:26 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:09:45 -0500
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>From: Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Which jives

Uh, jibes.

M

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:14:55 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:09:45 AM, Marie Ascher wrote:

>>From: Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM>
>>Which jives

> Uh, jibes.

Either way.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 11:23:22 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:18:21 -0500
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
> >>From: Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM>
> >>Which jives
>
> > Uh, jibes.
>
>Either way.

Really? I guess that's why after I wrote jives, I decided to look it up --
in the M-W New Collegiate Dictionary I have on my desk, jives doesn't have
such a definition.

But I guess that's evolving language for ya?

Marie

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Light
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>From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@AKAD.EE>
>Now my recent answer suddenly reminded me of an idea a friend talked about
>years
>ago (if I've mentioned it here, sorry for repeating; it isn't post
>duplicate,
>Karen): to tape-record a good portion of silence, so that if you have much
>noise
>around you may just put on the tape and enjoy silence.

The Grateful Dead went to the desert and recorded silence, so I've heard.
And in "24 Hour Party People", Martin Hannett (who became the producer for
Joy Division) is first encountered recording silence.

Marie

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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 11:44:01 2003
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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
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>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>Or are other people getting duplicates of some list postings?

No, we just keep repeating ourselves.

Marie

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:06:19 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:03:15 AM, Kristin Sarv wrote:

> John Williams wrote:

>>     Daylight Savings Time?  What on Earth is that?

> Just a time to put as much of daylight as possible into big jars to keep
> it there till one is short of it.

I love you, Kristin.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Natalie:
> Maybe after I move to BSL, I'll get into horse-racing
> in NO and win big money on Octibbeha.

A better bet would have been Strike for Richard
in yesterday's 7th (22.60 to win).

Have a nice plain Tuesday, you miserable sods.

--
Richard        down on St. Claude and Dumaine

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From: "C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" <rjscheid@nadal.loyno.edu>
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> Paging Neal Traven. Richard Scheidt?

Is this the first exposure to Pynchon?  If
so, that's a tough order.  Start simpler,
and kinda learn his sense of humor.

--
Baby Tyrone

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>From: "C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" <rjscheid@NADAL.LOYNO.EDU>
>Have a nice plain Tuesday, you miserable sods.

:-)  They are serving Cajun cooking in our cafeteria today.

Marie

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> >     Daylight Savings Time?  What on Earth is that?

ObPedant: Isn't there only one S in DST?

--
Richard        down on St. Claude and Dumaine

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Karen Kay wrote:

> I love you, Kristin.

    Yea, she's good.
    Say, Paul, was your three-foot phallus a sight to behold because you be
holdin' it?

JMW

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:17:56 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:14:13 AM, John Williams wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> I love you, Kristin.

>     Yea, she's good.
>     Say, Paul, was your three-foot phallus a sight to behold because you be
> holdin' it?

If you encourage him, he'll describe it in exquisite detail!
Especially the gnarled knob on the end... And the heft! Have we
talked about heft yet?!

Karen

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Karen Kay wrote:

> > Just a time to put as much of daylight as possible into big jars to keep
> > it there till one is short of it.
>
> I love you, Kristin.

:-)

Now my recent answer suddenly reminded me of an idea a friend talked about years
ago (if I've mentioned it here, sorry for repeating; it isn't post duplicate,
Karen): to tape-record a good portion of silence, so that if you have much noise
around you may just put on the tape and enjoy silence.

Kristin

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On 4 Mar 2003 at 10:00, John Williams wrote:

> Daylight Savings Time?  What on Earth is that?

BSOM.

    mem

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:23:27 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:18:21 AM, Marie Ascher wrote:

>>From: Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM>
>> >>From: Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM>
>> >>Which jives
>>
>> > Uh, jibes.
>>
>>Either way.

> Really? I guess that's why after I wrote jives, I decided to look it up --
> in the M-W New Collegiate Dictionary I have on my desk, jives doesn't have
> such a definition.

> But I guess that's evolving language for ya?

Very interesting. I can't find a dictionary that supports my
Native Speaker knowledge of English. I am much more likely to use
'jive' than 'jibe', because of the sailing definition of 'jibe'.

I like 'jive' because it equates whatever we're talking about to
playing jazz.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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On 4 Mar 2003 at 10:10, bonniev wrote:

> Tushar, Mem  --  where should I email this map so you can add it to
> the acadiafest link??

You mean drawn as on paper? If you want it on the official site, send
it to Tushar. If you want it up sometime soon, send it to me.

    mem

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:24:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Light
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:17:12 AM, Kristin Sarv wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > Just a time to put as much of daylight as possible into big jars to keep
>> > it there till one is short of it.
>>
>> I love you, Kristin.

> :-)

> Now my recent answer suddenly reminded me of an idea a friend talked about years
> ago (if I've mentioned it here, sorry for repeating; it isn't post duplicate,
> Karen): to tape-record a good portion of silence, so that if you have much noise
> around you may just put on the tape and enjoy silence.

I think you may have mentioned that here before. It doesn't make
sense to me, though--silence comes from within, not without.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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On 4 Mar 2003 at 12:18, Marie Ascher wrote:

> But I guess that's evolving language for ya?

It's the language of loose women. Please continue to avoid it.


    mem

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:26:44 -0500
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Marie Ascher wrote:
>
> But I guess that's evolving language for ya?

It's right up there with all the booksellers who keep shouting "Here!
Here!" whenever they agree with something.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:31:33 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:26:44 AM, alyce cresap wrote:

> Marie Ascher wrote:
>>
>> But I guess that's evolving language for ya?

> It's right up there with all the booksellers who keep shouting "Here!
> Here!" whenever they agree with something.

But these aren't homophones.

Karen

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:35:54 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000711

Needless to say, I don't exactly agree.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:37:16 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:31:38 AM, Michael E. Macmillan wrote:

> On 4 Mar 2003 at 12:18, Marie Ascher wrote:

>> But I guess that's evolving language for ya?

> It's the language of loose women. Please continue to avoid it.

Loose women! Oh, no...

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:40:04 -0500
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000711
>
> Needless to say, I don't exactly agree.

If it was needless, why did you say it?

alyce

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:42:47 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:38:33 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Don't start anything with me, ET. Did someone say they were?

Jibe and gibe are--and I don't think I confuse those, though I
may.

> It is simply that people hear, or think they hear, something,
> without knowing what the word really is. Jibe-jive reminded me
> of hear-hear. OK?

Okay. As long as you understand that what you are reminded of
ain't necessarily so.

> Now shut up. Eccentric and cranky is good.

Uh, okay.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:44:04 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:40:04 AM, alyce cresap wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>>
>> http://www.randomhouse.com/wotd/index.pperl?date=20000711
>>
>> Needless to say, I don't exactly agree.

> If it was needless, why did you say it?

Man, you *are* cranky today!!!

Maybe Paul will send you a picture of himself in a toga complete
with phallus, to cheer you up.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Nay, to be hold by another.
clo

John Williams wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>
> > I love you, Kristin.
>
>     Yea, she's good.
>     Say, Paul, was your three-foot phallus a sight to behold because you be
> holdin' it?
>
> JMW

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:38:33 -0500
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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:26:44 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > Marie Ascher wrote:
> >>
> >> But I guess that's evolving language for ya?
>
> > It's right up there with all the booksellers who keep shouting "Here!
> > Here!" whenever they agree with something.
>
> But these aren't homophones.

Don't start anything with me, ET. Did someone say they were? It is
simply that people hear, or think they hear, something, without knowing
what the word really is. Jibe-jive reminded me of hear-hear. OK? Now
shut up. Eccentric and cranky is good.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:18:41 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <chapman.rita@mail.webster.k12.mo.us>
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Most dogs will mind an invisible fence.  They're frowned upon because
some dogs will go right through if there's something tempting enough on
the other side (and once they've done it once, they'll do it again), and
because other dogs can get into the yard.  So, for example, if your
neighbor's beagle wanted at your dog, the beagle would be able to get to
it.

Viszlas are not wanderers like hounds.  They're supposed to hunt close
and will keep you in their line of vision.  When I take Vinnie out to
the conservation areas to run, he makes big loops around me -- I'm never
out of his sight, and he keeps checking back.  Viszlas hunt the same
way, but they're more trainable and don't have the troublemaker streak
-- they're more earnest, as Natalie observes.  They do like to snuggle.
I know plenty who are couch potatoes in the house and hell on wheels in
the field -- the trick is making sure they get plenty of exercise.

It might be a very good choice for you.  I think pups around here run
around $800.

As for daylight savings.... FEH to you, I say, Rashmi.  It's only this
past week I've had sunlight on my drive to work and I want more of it!
It's so depressing dropping Ana off in the dark.

--
Rita Chapman
Webster Groves High School
Communication Skills
chapman.rita@mail.webster.k12.mo.us

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Karen Kay wrote:
> Maybe Paul will send you a picture of himself in a toga complete
> with phallus, to cheer you up.

A phallus is the last thing I care to see right now, thanks.

Just learned that I have a phosphorus deficit and must take a
prescription supplement. Why? What is high in phosphorus? Chocolate!
Milk! Cheese! And I consume vast amounts of these, relatively speaking.

Disgruntled in g'town

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:50:12 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:45:35 AM, Carolyn Ostrander wrote:
> Now how do you know about that gnarled knob?

It was described to me in loving detail.

> It was a butte. er, beaut.

LOL.

I think my sig is especially appropriate here...

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@library.syr.edu>
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> >02003-03-04 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> >>  I like 'jive' because it equates whatever we're talking about to
> >  > playing jazz.
>
> One of my authors tells me that there's a theory of the origin of the
> word "jazz" which posits it as a derivative of "jizz."
>
> Comments, linguists?
>
> Janet



http://www.apassion4jazz.net/etymology.html


BrP

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Texas
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:21:09 +0000
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This is too funny.

"And doesn't Texas sometimes seem to resemble a country like Saudi Arabia,
with its great heat, its oil wealth, its brimming houses of worship, and its
weekly executions?" - Martin Amis

Bwahahahahahah!

-rashmi

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In a message dated 3/4/2003 10:40:05 AM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< Now
shut up. Eccentric and cranky is good. >>

Here, here! Theo

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Now how do you know about that gnarled knob?
It was a butte. er, beaut.
clo

Karen Kay wrote:

> Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:14:13 AM, John Williams wrote:
> > Karen Kay wrote:
> >> I love you, Kristin.
>
> >     Yea, she's good.
> >     Say, Paul, was your three-foot phallus a sight to behold because you be
> > holdin' it?
>
> If you encourage him, he'll describe it in exquisite detail!
> Especially the gnarled knob on the end... And the heft! Have we
> talked about heft yet?!
>
> Karen

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:47:03 EST
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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In a message dated 3/4/2003 4:55:20 AM, rouvalis@SWBELL.NET writes:

<<         I have credentials from two universities and the state of
Missouri.  If you're a computer expert, then I know all
there is to know about literature.
 >>

I'll never know ALL there's to know about anything IMHO. My days simply
aren't long enough for it, and I don't even sleep a lot! But that's of course
only one woman's opinion. I like science fiction, always have, not that
that's the only kind of reading I do, and have done in my lifetime. Theo

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:46:55 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
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            <124296581221.20030302200347@WordWrite.com>
            <20030303032754.GJ19974@pobox.com>
            <182023119.20030302213855@WordWrite.com>
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            <20030303223224.B23657@yoccoz.multinix.com>
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02003-03-04 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> Tushar Samant:
> = 02003-03-03 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> = > = > PULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEE take me to
> = > = > Charlie Trotter's!
> = > =
> = > = I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.
> = >
> = > They're not taking her, you are.
> =
> = I thought YOU are.
>
> I'd love to, but the chances of me being welcome in Chicago at
> Christmas are zip.

Why is that?

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Lysistrata
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02003-03-04 | "Paul R. Barfoot" <prbarfoo@LIBRARY.SYR.EDU> writes:
> I love you clo

Could we have some HATE now? I can barely breathe

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-04 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> Karen Kay:
> = Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:18:11 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> = > Thank you, K-R-N!
> =
> = If you really appreciated me, you'd use all the letters of my
> = name.
>
> Yeah, what is this passive agressive shit I get from one of my
> colleagues where he refuses to spell my name right in an email,
> even though it's in each and every one as an example?

Perhaps you aren't listening to him, Steive ...

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:56:57 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> Theodora Groothof wrote:
> >Stoop? If you never read it, how can you judge it? Theo
>
> I have credentials from two universities and the state of
> Missouri.  If you're a computer expert, then I know all
> there is to know about literature.

Don't listen to her, I believe they are state schools.

I started reading a Heinlein book today--can you believe it.
Not like carrying in the "cargo pocket", just in the bathroom.
Knowmsain. I got a few "classic" SF from the Amazon coupons
they gave as a bonus. Well, it's true, you need to read this
guy when young. It sounds pretty infantile to me, with stupid
labored tricks.

The amazing thing is, Asimov sounds fine, even now. He really
mustn't have been a nerd boy ...

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 11:59:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:48:06 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Just learned that I have a phosphorus deficit and must take a
> prescription supplement.

Just what you need to hear.

Well, ET, I love you Just The Way You Are, and I don't find
you deficient in any way. So there!:)

> Why? What is high in phosphorus? Chocolate!
> Milk! Cheese! And I consume vast amounts of these, relatively speaking.

Maybe this will help you gain weight. I found this on the web:
"Phosphorus occurs in the protoplasm and nucleus of of every
cell. It is used in more functions than any other mineral in the
body. Phosphorus is necessary to metabolize fats, carbohydrates
and proteins. It is used with calcium in the building of bones &
teeth. The building of nerve tissue and brain cells require
phosphorus. Like calcium, the largest amount of phosphorus is
found in the bones. A deficiency will affect the skeletal
structure in the same manner as a calcium deficiency and may also
result in mental fatigue and feeling of depression resulting from
exhausted nerve energy."

http://crazynut.theshoppe.com/feature-roleminnut.html also said
"All seeds and nuts are good sources of phosphorus. In addition,
the following foods contain a high percentage of phosphorus:
Coconut, Peaches, Apples, Pears, Apricots, Broccoli, Figs, Dates,
Cabbage, Squash, Avocados, Green vegetable leaves, Carrots, Mung
bean sprouts, Beets, Persimmons."

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:00:24 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Light
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02003-03-04 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I love you, Kristin.

Please, for some hate!

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02003-03-04 | Tony Harminc <tony@HARMINC.COM> writes:
> > It should be done a week or two early. How does one get this
> > process rolling?
>
> Logically it should be done on the last Sunday of February.

Logically, it shouldn't be done.

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:01:42 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 12:00:24 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-04 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>> I love you, Kristin.

> Please, for some hate!

I will hate you if you promise to take me to Charlie Trotter's.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Subject: Re: Random House on jive/jibe
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Alyce, I hope that replenishing your phosphorous will give you back your glow.


BrP




>
> Just learned that I have a phosphorus deficit and must take a
> prescription supplement. Why? What is high in phosphorus? Chocolate!
> Milk! Cheese! And I consume vast amounts of these, relatively speaking.
>
> Disgruntled in g'town

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:06:16 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: I've drawn a map
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02003-03-04 | bonniev <bonniev@PANAX.COM> writes:
> While we are talking about it, I've drawn a map to Bar Harbor and to our
> house, including the location of the Edenbrook Motel, where Adam and
> perhaps others are planning to stay.
> http://www.acadia.net/edenbrook/
>
> Tushar, Mem  --  where should I email this map so you can add it to the
> acadiafest link??
>
> Or I can email it to anyone who wants it personally.

Let mem put it up on the "unofficial" site--it's easiest for me
to just mirror it.

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02003-03-04 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I like 'jive' because it equates whatever we're talking about to
> playing jazz.

We are living about 70 years later, K-REN!

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02003-03-04 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> I love you Just The Way You Are

It's the cheapest love season ever!

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In a message dated 3/4/2003 8:14:44 AM, plotkina@ISC.UPENN.EDU writes:

<< but it won't be practical for us to
>adopt a puppy until the end of the summer. But I am sooooo
>tempted. Look how
>sweet! >>

They're adorable! Always been a hunting dog fan too, but..... sigh Theo

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:14:34 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 12:10:51 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:

>>02003-03-04 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>>>  I like 'jive' because it equates whatever we're talking about to
>>  > playing jazz.

> One of my authors tells me that there's a theory of the origin of the
> word "jazz" which posits it as a derivative of "jizz."

> Comments, linguists?

You can find a theory about almost anything if you look.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 10:10:51 -0800
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>02003-03-04 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
>>  I like 'jive' because it equates whatever we're talking about to
>  > playing jazz.

One of my authors tells me that there's a theory of the origin of the
word "jazz" which posits it as a derivative of "jizz."

Comments, linguists?

Janet

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 12:50:00 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 12:34:36 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> result in mental fatigue and feeling of depression resulting from
>> exhausted nerve energy."

> I don't know that I have mental fatigue, but I am so physically fatigued
> that I spend more time horizontal than upright and am getting very
> little done.

I don't know what 'exhausted nerve energy' is, but that sure
sounds like physical fatigue to me.

> Thanks for your research and for the food list. More nuts,
> more vegetables, I guess. I am not much into fruits.

I came across another web site that talked about the rarity of
phosphorus deficiency. The two types of people who become
deficient are chronic alcoholics and people who consume a lot of
antacids, because of the aluminum. I dunno--there could be
something in your well water that's making the phosphorus in your
diet less available. 'Tis a puzzlement.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 21:01:05 +0200
From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@akad.ee>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> the following foods contain a high percentage of phosphorus:
> Coconut, Peaches, Apples, Pears, Apricots, Broccoli, Figs, Dates,
> Cabbage, Squash, Avocados, Green vegetable leaves, Carrots, Mung
> bean sprouts, Beets, Persimmons."

I'm surprised fish is not mentioned. I thought (or, well, maybe I do not
remember any more what I've thought) at least fish bones contained it and that
eating tinned-canned fish where there are often smaller bones (somehow got soft)
would provide one with phosporus as well.

Kristin

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:34:36 -0500
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Karen Kay wrote:

may also
> result in mental fatigue and feeling of depression resulting from
> exhausted nerve energy."

I don't know that I have mental fatigue, but I am so physically fatigued
that I spend more time horizontal than upright and am getting very
little done. Thanks for your research and for the food list. More nuts,
more vegetables, I guess. I am not much into fruits.

alyce

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What about the 4th of July parade?

The Bar Harbor parade starts and end at the Athletic Field on lower (to the
south) Main Street.   It marches the length of Mt. Desert and Cottage
Streets.    A good place for wordslers to gather to watch the parade would
be the Internet Cafe/Opera House on Cottage Street about a block up (west)
of the intersection with Main Street.  There are tables in the windows
where one can sit and sip latte while watching the parade pass.   10:30
a.m. would be a good time to shoot for.

What about the 4th of July fireworks?

You are on your own for this.  Clyde and I have never found a really good
place from which to watch the fireworks.  They are set off in the bay, near
Bar Island and the Town Pier.  The crowds will watch from Agamont Park on
the waterfront on Main Street.  One can watch from the top of Mt.
Cadillac.   It's just possible that they would be visible from the
Edenbrook Motel.   They are not visible from the Voigtlander home.   The
fireworks are ordinarily set off at 9 p.m. on July 4th.   There is almost a
50% chance that they will be delayed until July 5th or 6th because of fog.

Where can we eat lobster?

You can get a lobster dinner at just about any place except the library,
the Catholic Church, and the Voigtlander home.  No, we have not joined
PETA.  But lobster is way too messy and inconvenient to cook for a
group.   There will be a lobster feed at the Athletic Field starting
directly after the Bar Harbor 4th of July parade.  One queues to get a
freshly cooked lobster, mussels (optional), and corn on the cob.  Tables
are set up under a tent.  The overflow crowd eats on the grass.   For
slightly more elegant dining, The West Street Cafe is a good place to get
an inexpensive complete lobster dinner.  The Early Bird Special is usually
around $12.   French fries and blueberry slump for dessert are included.

Where can we just hang out with other wordslers?

The Voigtlander home will be open to wordslers from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. on
July 4th and again from 10 a.m. to 10 p.m. on July 5th.   Bonnie will be
there during those hours to host the folk who don't want to hike or watch
parades or see fireworks or eat lobster.  Before 10 a.m. breakfast can be
had at numerous places in Bar Harbor.  Jordan's on upper (away from Main)
Cottage Street and Cafe This Way across Mt. Desert Street from the Village
Green are both recommended.  The food is better at Cafe This Way.  The
atmosphere is very down home at Jordan's.  For after 10 p.m. Geddy's on
Main Street (across from Agamont Park) is recommended.   For a slightly
less noisy drinking place, The Lompoc Cafe is recommended.  Great
microbrews.  It is located on Rodick Street.  Rodick runs for two blocks
between the Village Green and Cottage Street.  It parallels Main Street
about a block to the west.

I like to do an early morning run.  Where is a good place for that?

Are you sure you are a wordsler?   The place to run, which is the nearest
to the village of Bar Harbor, is the Witch Hole Pond carriage road
loop.  It is 3.3 miles long.   You leave Bar Harbor by way of West Street,
continue up the West Street extension (crossing route 3), until you
see  the Duck Brook road on your right.   Go along that for a bit and you
will see some parking spots at the Duck Brook Bridge.  Leave the car
there.  Head across the bridge and you are on the carriage road
loop.  Firm, fine gravel is the footing.  There will be other runners,
walkers, and bicyclists.  Bicycles can be rented at a number of stores in
the village of Bar Harbor.

Is there some way to avoid the car traffic in Bar Harbor and Acadia
National Park?

Yes, leave your car parked all day on West Street or at your motel and take
the free shuttle buses.  All the routes begin from the Village Green in Bar
Harbor.   There is a good map and schedule posted on the south end of the
Village Green.   The only place the buses do not go is the top of
Cadillac.   They take you within about a block of the Voigtlander
home.  Asked to be let off at Forest Street where it intersects with Eagle
Lake Road, about a half mile west of the village of Bar Harbor.

    --bonniev

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:36:47 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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"Paul R. Barfoot" wrote:
>
> Alyce, I hope that replenishing your phosphorous will give you back your glow.
>
And strike a light in my dark days.

alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 21:07:05 +0200
From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@akad.ee>
Organization: Akadeemia
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:

> Mah-dahm B'tay:
> > Did you celebrate your birthday today or yesterday?
>
> 2004.
>
> I'll be 11.

lol. Then I'm not late wishing you: Happy Birthday!

(I'm trying to read through a huge amount of messages, both older and
fresh, so I just opened the thread from(sic!) Feb. 29.)

Kristin

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Theodora Groothof wrote:
> >
> Here, here! Theo

Ho ho. Very funny, Theo.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:11:00 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:01:05 PM, Kristin Sarv wrote:
> I'm surprised fish is not mentioned. I thought (or, well, maybe I do not
> remember any more what I've thought) at least fish bones contained it and that
> eating tinned-canned fish where there are often smaller bones (somehow got soft)
> would provide one with phosporus as well.

Good question that I don't know the answer to. Fish is
recommended for pregnant women as a rich source of phosphorus.

Oooh, here's a better source, Alyce, the Texas agriculture
extension service. 4 pages on getting more phosphorus in food.
http://agpublications.tamu.edu/pubs/fn/enp2884.pdf.

They do mention fish.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Karen Kay wrote:
>  The two types of people who become
> deficient are chronic alcoholics

Well, I've been there and done that, but not for a long time.

>and people who consume a lot of antacids

never had one in my life.

I think the water should be OK--I've been drinking it for 16 years
without a deficiency.

If nerve fatigue means that I can hardly move and that to pick up a
sheet of paper is heavy labor, then that is what I have.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:14:55 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Kristin Sarv wrote:
 tinned-canned fish where there are often smaller bones (somehow got
soft)
> would provide one with phosporus as well.

OK. I like sardines. Are there other kinds of canned fish with small
soft bones?

alyce

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:15:50 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:13:17 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>>  The two types of people who become
>> deficient are chronic alcoholics

> Well, I've been there and done that, but not for a long time.

That's what I thought.

> If nerve fatigue means that I can hardly move and that to pick up a
> sheet of paper is heavy labor, then that is what I have.

Well, I do hope that the supplement helps.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:25:04 PM, Kristin Sarv wrote:

> alyce cresap wrote:

>> OK. I like sardines. Are there other kinds of canned fish with small
>> soft bones?

> I guess there must be. In the text on the can there must be a clue, some
> word about how the fish has been processed(word?), but I cannot remember
> the word in Estonian now, so I cannot look it up in the dictionary
> either. This kind of fish is usually in oil, I think: tuna, sprats...
> However, it is not oil that makes the bones soft but a particular
> processing.

Mackerel.

But it's not in the bones, it's in the fish.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:49:14 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
> You can eat them and get the valuable nutrients therein.  Some people
> prefer to mash them into the meat with a fork.  It's the pressure-cooking
> that makes them soft and edible.  Probably the same with the fish Kristin's
> thinking of.

Hm. I really didn't think they were soft enough to eat. I mean, I
can taste them independently from the fish, which means to me
that they are solid enough to get stuck in my throat.

Karen

"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the
palate, tongue, cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your
nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 12:00:04 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Random House on jive/jibe
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>Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:30:57 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
>>  Alyce writes,
>>>OK. I like sardines. Are there other kinds of canned fish with small
>>>soft bones?
>
>>  Canned salmon.
>
>Really? I always debone them.

You can take out the vertebrae, but it's pretty hard to get rid of
the smaller bones. Personally, I like the vertebrae too, although I
usually separate them out and crunch them up on their own.

Janet

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Karen Kay wrote:
>
> Oooh, here's a better source, Alyce, the Texas agriculture
> extension service. 4 pages on getting more phosphorus in food.
> http://agpublications.tamu.edu/pubs/fn/enp2884.pdf.

Thanks. You are a better searcher than I. I couldn't find deficiencies,
only shortages. Anyway, it's funny that Texas has only one veg, lima
beans. BUt I like those.

alyce
>
> They do mention fish.
>
> Karen
> "Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
> cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
>  --Shinzen Young


--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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alyce cresap wrote:

> OK. I like sardines. Are there other kinds of canned fish with small
> soft bones?

I guess there must be. In the text on the can there must be a clue, some
word about how the fish has been processed(word?), but I cannot remember
the word in Estonian now, so I cannot look it up in the dictionary
either. This kind of fish is usually in oil, I think: tuna, sprats...
However, it is not oil that makes the bones soft but a particular
processing.

Kristin

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:27:53 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Random House on jive/jibe
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:18:25 PM, alyce cresap wrote:
> Thanks. You are a better searcher than I. I couldn't find deficiencies,
> only shortages. Anyway, it's funny that Texas has only one veg, lima
> beans. BUt I like those.

Texans are big meat eaters... But really, I dunno.

There are lots and lots of articles about getting phosphorus into
fish diets.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:29:38 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:20:39 PM, alyce cresap wrote:

> alyce cresap wrote:
> I couldn't find deficiencies,
>> only shortages.

> Correction: Read excesses for shortages. OK?

Okay.

I think I searched on phosphorus deficiency (the first time). The
second time was 'eat phosphorus fish -pollution'.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:34:45 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:30:57 PM, Peter Kaminski wrote:
> Alyce writes,
>>OK. I like sardines. Are there other kinds of canned fish with small
>>soft bones?

> Canned salmon.

Really? I always debone them.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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Alyce writes,

>OK. I like sardines. Are there other kinds of canned fish with small
>soft bones?

Canned salmon.

Pete

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At 11:59 AM 3/4/2003 -0600, Karen Kay wrote:
>Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 11:48:06 AM, alyce cresap wrote:
> > Just learned that I have a phosphorus deficit and must take a
> > prescription supplement.
>
>Just what you need to hear.
>
>Well, ET, I love you Just The Way You Are, and I don't find
>you deficient in any way. So there!:)
>
> > Why? What is high in phosphorus? Chocolate!
> > Milk! Cheese! And I consume vast amounts of these, relatively speaking.
>
>Maybe this will help you gain weight. I found this on the web:

OH, it must be true then.

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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:30:52 PM, Betty Clark wrote:
>>Maybe this will help you gain weight. I found this on the web:

> OH, it must be true then.

Not necessarily. But I don't think the Texas Agricultural
Extension service would post false information on purpose. But
perhaps I'm naive.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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Karen writes,

>Really? I always debone them.

You can eat them and get the valuable nutrients therein.  Some people
prefer to mash them into the meat with a fork.  It's the pressure-cooking
that makes them soft and edible.  Probably the same with the fish Kristin's
thinking of.

Pete

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On Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 12:28, Marie Ascher wrote:

> The Grateful Dead went to the desert and recorded silence, so I've heard.
> And in "24 Hour Party People", Martin Hannett (who became the producer for
> Joy Division) is first encountered recording silence.

4'33"

Tony H.

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On Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 11:59, Marie Ascher wrote:

> Well, uh, loose suburbs anyway. Bruce thinks we live "in the woods" but it's
> not quite like that, it's just a little untamed. However, my street is
> cul-de-sac'ed on both ends [...]

This is a T-shaped place, or something similar? Somehow the thought
of a cul-de-sac at both ends is odd.

Tony H.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 21:52:10 +0200
From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@akad.ee>
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Tony Harminc wrote:

> On Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 12:28, Marie Ascher wrote:
>
> > The Grateful Dead went to the desert and recorded silence, so I've heard.
> > And in "24 Hour Party People", Martin Hannett (who became the producer for
> > Joy Division) is first encountered recording silence.
>
> 4'33"

Has it been recorded?

Kristin

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 11:59:01 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Random House on jive/jibe
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>Kristin Sarv wrote:
>  tinned-canned fish where there are often smaller bones (somehow got
>soft)
>>  would provide one with phosporus as well.
>
>OK. I like sardines. Are there other kinds of canned fish with small
>soft bones?

Salmon.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 13:59:26 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re[2]: Random House on jive/jibe
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 1:59:01 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:

>>Kristin Sarv wrote:
>>  tinned-canned fish where there are often smaller bones (somehow got
>>soft)
>>>  would provide one with phosporus as well.
>>
>>OK. I like sardines. Are there other kinds of canned fish with small
>>soft bones?

> Salmon.

Ohmigod! I'm mutant!

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: Pyncheon penchant?
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clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU:
= Is there anybody on the list who reads and appreciates Thomas
= Pyncheon, and feels they could give advice to someone who
= must read Gravity's Rainbow and is having a hard time
= getting a handle on it? We're talking someone who is way

All I have to say is that I've read other Pynchon and enjoyed it,
even without getting it in all of it's glory, and I have a hard
time reading Gravity's Rainbow.  I never seem to get past the
first hundred pages or so.

= clo
= waiting for the novocaine to wear off after dental emergency...

Ow.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:20:39 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
I couldn't find deficiencies,
> only shortages.

Correction: Read excesses for shortages. OK?

alyce

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
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Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-03-04 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
= > Tushar Samant:
= > = 02003-03-03 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
= > = > = > PULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEE take me to
= > = > = > Charlie Trotter's!
= > = > =
= > = > = I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.
= > = >
= > = > They're not taking her, you are.
= > =
= > = I thought YOU are.
= >
= > I'd love to, but the chances of me being welcome in Chicago at
= > Christmas are zip.
=
= Why is that?

I left that out on purpose.

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
Subject: Re: More on SnowBash
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At 10:11 PM 3/2/2003 -0500, you wrote:
> > Great.  Who else is coming?  Where is everyone staying?   What's
> > your phone number?  What's your address?  Are you serving the dish?  Is
> > Melanie coming?
>
>Let's see, y'all, LJ&HP, Emily and Dave (I think), Rashmi, Marieeber, Lisa,
>and Melanie I believe are all due to attend. Yes, I'm serving The Dish, duh.
>What else would be right and proper???
>
>I'll backchannel you the other info.
>
>--Adam
>adamh1@attbi.com

I'm pretty sure Tina's coming w/ me too.

Not sure what time we're going to arrive we have a few things to do before
we leave the boston area.

lisa

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 15:07:54 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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> alyce cresap wrote:
>
> > OK. I like sardines. Are there other kinds of canned fish with small
> > soft bones?

Answerng my own question, anchovies.

alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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From: "Doris Markland" <dmarkld@ncfcomm.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Question
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 14:14:10 -0600
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What kind of publication is the
London Daily Mail?  Is it a regular
newspaper or a tabloid?  What kind
of slant is it known for?

           - D. M.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 15:24:46 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
Organization: http://www.alybooks.com
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Celebrities read Lysistrata to stop Bush

March 5 2003

Celebrities and activists across the globe have united in a series of
public readings of Aristophanes's ancient anti-war comedy
Lysistrata, in a display of opposition to US military action in Iraq.

Organisers said more than 900 readings were to be presented in 56
countries and all 50 US states on Monday, with all proceeds going
to charities working for peace and humanitarian aid in the Middle East
and elsewhere.

In New York City, where the project originated, the readings began with
the morning rush hour and were set to culminate in an
all-star reading of the entire play at the Brooklyn Academy of Music.

Among those scheduled to take part were Hollywood stars such as
Oscar-winners Mercedes Ruehl and F Murray Abraham, as well as Kevin
Bacon, Kyra Sedgwick and David Strathairn.

Julie Christie was to take the title role in a separate performance in
Los Angeles.

Events were also organised in countries from Iceland to China.

Lysistrata tells the story of women from opposing states who unite to
end a war by refusing to sleep with their men until they agree
to lay down their swords.

"Our purpose is to make it very clear that President Bush does not speak
for all Americans," said Kathryn Blume who, along with
fellow New York actor Sharron Bower, set up the project.

"Our message is simple: If you oppose this war, then speak up," Blume
said.

The Lysistrata project was conceived just six weeks ago, when the two
actors began emailing friends and put up a website to promote
the concept.

"The response was just enormous," said Bower, who insists that she and
Blume are patriotic Americans.

"With the freedom and wealth of our country comes great responsibility -
and this war is not a responsible act," she said.

---
alyce

--
alyce cresap, books & ephemera
po box 20, germantown, ny 12526
518.537.4727 | alybooks@valstar.net
http://www.alybooks.com
charter member: IOBA
independent on-line booksellers association
selling books since 1963

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Tony Harminc wrote:
>
> This is a T-shaped place, or something similar? Somehow the thought
> of a cul-de-sac at both ends is odd.

Once you're in, you can't get out, or vice versa.

alyce

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:29:49 -0500
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Subject: Re: Light
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On Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 21:52, Kristin Sarv wrote:

> > > The Grateful Dead went to the desert and recorded silence, so I've heard.
> > > And in "24 Hour Party People", Martin Hannett (who became the producer for
> > > Joy Division) is first encountered recording silence.
> >
> > 4'33"
>
> Has it been recorded?

There are various web sites out there that claim to have recordings.
But of course they may be counterfeit copies! One must be careful.

Tony H.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 14:37:40 2003
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From: lisa alfieri <alfieri@attbi.com>
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At 09:03 AM 3/3/2003 -0800, Janet Hardy wrote:
>>In a message dated 03/03/2003 12:38:37 AM Central Standard Time,
>>verdie@EARTHLINK.NET writes:
>>
>><<
>>Janet
>>still trying to figure out
>>what to do with about 40 boxes
>>of Jaystuff in my old garage
>>
>>
>>Garage sale?  Goodwill?
>
>'Fraid not. He and I are just barely on speaking terms as it is.
>
>Janet

In that case you forgot the other "g" word.. garbage.

lisa

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 14:38:00 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 22:31:22 +0200
From: Kristin Sarv <Kristin.Sarv@akad.ee>
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Tony Harminc wrote:

> > > 4'33"
> >
> > Has it been recorded?
>
> There are various web sites out there that claim to have recordings.
> But of course they may be counterfeit copies! One must be careful.

LOL

Kristin

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 14:41:21 2003
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:38:41 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Light
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= > >
= > > 4'33"
= >
= > Has it been recorded?
=
= There are various web sites out there that claim to have recordings.
= But of course they may be counterfeit copies! One must be careful.
=
= Tony H.

http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/Music/09/23/uk.silence/

Over the plagarism lawsuit the John Cage Trust filed against Mike Batt for
crediting his "A One Minute Silence" to "Batt/Cage".

No sense of humor, shitload of money.

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 14:43:23 2003
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 14:38:24 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: So, Tushar...
Message-ID: <20030304203824.GA24539@pobox.com>
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02003-03-04 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> Tushar Samant:
> = 02003-03-04 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> = > Tushar Samant:
> = > = 02003-03-03 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> = > = > = > PULLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAASSSSSSSSSEEEE take me to
> = > = > = > Charlie Trotter's!
> = > = > =
> = > = > = I uploaded this request to the Indian mafia hub and they say no.
> = > = >
> = > = > They're not taking her, you are.
> = > =
> = > = I thought YOU are.
> = >
> = > I'd love to, but the chances of me being welcome in Chicago at
> = > Christmas are zip.
> =
> = Why is that?
>
> I left that out on purpose.

It's a relatively large city ...

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02003-03-04 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
> Over the plagarism lawsuit the John Cage Trust filed against Mike Batt for
> crediting his "A One Minute Silence" to "Batt/Cage".
>
> No sense of humor, shitload of money.

"Batt Cage" has plenty of sense of humor.

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Subject: Re: Vizslas
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In a message dated 3/4/2003 12:54:34 PM, tony@HARMINC.COM writes:

<< This is a T-shaped place, or something similar? Somehow the thought
of a cul-de-sac at both ends is odd.
 >>

My street says *dead end* on BOTH sides; speaking of odd... Theo

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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: alyce cresap <alybooks@VALSTAR.NET>
> > This is a T-shaped place, or something similar? Somehow the thought
> > of a cul-de-sac at both ends is odd.
>
>Once you're in, you can't get out, or vice versa.

No, there's a way in and that street crosses my street, which is cul de sac
on both ends. Then there's actually another cul-de-sac offshoot. So it's
like a cross that closed on three points.

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?email=1&mapdat

Marie




_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE*
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:33:28 +0100
From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
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Tushar Samant:
= 02003-03-04 | steph <stevie@MULTINIX.COM> writes:
= > Karen Kay:
= > = Monday, March 3, 2003, 8:18:11 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
= > = > Thank you, K-R-N!
= > =
= > = If you really appreciated me, you'd use all the letters of my
= > = name.
= >
= > Yeah, what is this passive agressive shit I get from one of my
= > colleagues where he refuses to spell my name right in an email,
= > even though it's in each and every one as an example?
=
= Perhaps you aren't listening to him, Steive ...

probably not.  he doesn't listen to me either.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Question
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02003-03-04 | Doris Markland <dmarkld@NCFCOMM.COM> writes:
> What kind of publication is the
> London Daily Mail?  Is it a regular
> newspaper or a tabloid?  What kind
> of slant is it known for?

Just post the article. We love thought-provoking articles.

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From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 2:55:00 PM, Marie Ascher wrote:
> No, there's a way in and that street crosses my street, which is cul de sac
> on both ends. Then there's actually another cul-de-sac offshoot. So it's
> like a cross that closed on three points.

There's a name for this kind of cross... Not a Byzantine cross. I
forget.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 14:21:24 -0700
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> I started reading a Heinlein book today--can you believe it.
> Not like carrying in the "cargo pocket", just in the bathroom.
> Knowmsain. I got a few "classic" SF from the Amazon coupons
> they gave as a bonus. Well, it's true, you need to read this
> guy when young. It sounds pretty infantile to me, with stupid
> labored tricks.

    RAH wrote several juvies.  Also, in his post-mortem autobiography he
railed at length against the heavy-handed methods his publisher used to
force him to make changes to his more mature works.

JMW

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 15:23:44 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 3:21:24 PM, John Williams wrote:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>> I started reading a Heinlein book today--can you believe it.
>> Not like carrying in the "cargo pocket", just in the bathroom.
>> Knowmsain. I got a few "classic" SF from the Amazon coupons
>> they gave as a bonus. Well, it's true, you need to read this
>> guy when young. It sounds pretty infantile to me, with stupid
>> labored tricks.

>     RAH wrote several juvies.

Even SISL, which isn't a juvie, reads like a juvie any more.

>   Also, in his post-mortem autobiography he
> railed at length against the heavy-handed methods his publisher used to
> force him to make changes to his more mature works.

But mostly his books read as if they were unedited.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 15:33:53 2003
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Kristin writes,

>Has it been recorded?

For many years the only recorded version was on an LP released in 1974,
Nova Musicha n.1.

<http://www.newalbion.com/artists/cagej/discog/discog.html>
<http://www.italianprog.com/l_cramps.htm>

Another interesting performance was released in 1991. "It was made in 1991
by Wayne Marshall, who's mostly known for his Gershwin. His gimmick was to
make an audiophile recording, using high-end equipment to capture the
studio ambience as accurately as possible. His liner note is very sincere."

<http://www.newalbion.com/artists/cagej/silence/html/1995q4/0136.html>
<http://www.johncage.info/cdlabels/floating4.html>

Pete

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oh mercy


BrP




> I couldn't agree more, but the whole story is this: my daughter
> is at Oxford for 6 mos, studying medieval history (she
> thought). She was asked to propose a number of topics
> for tutorials, and they would match the topics with the interests
> of available tutors (I gather). In one aspect, it's going better
> than she dreamed, since she is loving the work with one tutor;
> but in the second topic, it's more fearful than she dreamed,
> since this out-of-left-field topic was switched in on her at
> the last moment. When I say that she went to medieval history
> from a solid high school experience based entirely on an
> expectation that she would become an engineer, because
> she was 3 years ahead of peers in math and logic, perhaps
> you can appreciate what a gut-wrenching thing it is to be
> handed the assignment of doing literary criticism on
> Gravity's Rainbow, without warning.
>
> So even a hint about his sense of humor would
> probably be helpful.
>
> And Steph, she appears to have the same limitations -
> she's on page 92 or so and has pretty well hit the wall.
> clo

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In a message dated 3/4/2003 1:27:35 PM, alybooks@VALSTAR.NET writes:

<< "With the freedom and wealth of our country comes great responsibility -
and this war is not a responsible act," she said.
 >>

Couldn't agree more, Theo

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From: Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@syr.edu>
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I couldn't agree more, but the whole story is this: my daughter
is at Oxford for 6 mos, studying medieval history (she
thought). She was asked to propose a number of topics
for tutorials, and they would match the topics with the interests
of available tutors (I gather). In one aspect, it's going better
than she dreamed, since she is loving the work with one tutor;
but in the second topic, it's more fearful than she dreamed,
since this out-of-left-field topic was switched in on her at
the last moment. When I say that she went to medieval history
from a solid high school experience based entirely on an
expectation that she would become an engineer, because
she was 3 years ahead of peers in math and logic, perhaps
you can appreciate what a gut-wrenching thing it is to be
handed the assignment of doing literary criticism on
Gravity's Rainbow, without warning.

So even a hint about his sense of humor would
probably be helpful.

And Steph, she appears to have the same limitations -
she's on page 92 or so and has pretty well hit the wall.
clo

"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:

> > Paging Neal Traven. Richard Scheidt?
>
> Is this the first exposure to Pynchon?  If
> so, that's a tough order.  Start simpler,
> and kinda learn his sense of humor.
>
> --
> Baby Tyrone

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 16:23:29 -0500
From: Terry Wild <twild@uri.edu>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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--On Tuesday, March 04, 2003, 8:47 AM -0500 "clyde w. voigtlander"
<cwv@PANAX.COM> wrote:

>> Rashmi:
>> Driving in New England summer is the pits. Aaargh - I remember many hours
>> of barely moving traffic in RI. I'm not looking forward to getting to BH.
>
> I don't suppose that there is an easy route for you, i.e., one that
> doesn't go through Boston, is there?  Boston to Portland and environs can
> be bad.  After that, it's fairly easy going to Bangor, where (for you
> coming to BH) the interstate ends and the 2-lane roads begin.
>
> cwv


Rt 495 avoids Boston and is usually good travelling.  It does tack on a few
miles but not many.  If you're scheduled to hit the Boston area near any
rush hour, I'd strongly recommend 495.

Terry

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From: "Tony Harminc" <tony@harminc.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:34:50 -0500
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Subject: Re: Vizslas
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On Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 15:55, Marie Ascher wrote:

> No, there's a way in and that street crosses my street, which is cul de sac
> on both ends. Then there's actually another cul-de-sac offshoot. So it's
> like a cross that closed on three points.
>
> http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?email=1&mapdat

Needs just a little more detail, I think...

Btw, do you really say "cul-de-sac" rather than "dead end"?

Tony H.

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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
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Subject: RE: Vizslas
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Tony Harminc
>Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 4:35 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Vizslas
>
>
>On Tuesday, March 04, 2003 at 15:55, Marie Ascher wrote:
>
>> No, there's a way in and that street crosses my street,
>which is cul de sac
>> on both ends. Then there's actually another cul-de-sac
>offshoot. So it's
>> like a cross that closed on three points.
>>
>> http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?email=1&mapdat
>
>Needs just a little more detail, I think...
>
>Btw, do you really say "cul-de-sac" rather than "dead end"?
>
>Tony H.
>

On the map it looks a cul-de-sac to me. What a great street name too!


alec

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 15:57:08 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 13:42:34 PST
From: Yahoo! Maps <refertofriend@reply.yahoo.com>
To: words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Cc: 
Reply-to: plotkina@isc.upenn.edu
Subject: Yahoo! Maps - 14 William Puckey Dr, Cortlandt Manor, NY 10567-6206
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Alec Plotkin (plotkina@isc.upenn.edu) has sent you a Yahoo! Map
------------------------------------------------------------
Personal message:

Maries street.

Yahoo! Maps - 14 William Puckey Dr, Cortlandt Manor, NY 10567-6206
http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=14+William+Puckey+Dr&city=Cortlandt+Manor&state=NY&slt=41.271505&sln=-73.868649&zip=10567-6206&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=9&cs=9&csz=Cortlandt+Manor,+NY+10567-6206&name=&desc=&ds=n

============================================================
Yahoo! Maps and Driving Directions - http://maps.yahoo.com/

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 15:58:28 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 15:53:28 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Pyncheon penchant?
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Sorry, she's already gotten further than I ever did.

Carolyn Ostrander wrote:

> I couldn't agree more, but the whole story is this: my daughter
> is at Oxford for 6 mos, studying medieval history (she
> thought). She was asked to propose a number of topics
> for tutorials, and they would match the topics with the interests
> of available tutors (I gather). In one aspect, it's going better
> than she dreamed, since she is loving the work with one tutor;
> but in the second topic, it's more fearful than she dreamed,
> since this out-of-left-field topic was switched in on her at
> the last moment. When I say that she went to medieval history
> from a solid high school experience based entirely on an
> expectation that she would become an engineer, because
> she was 3 years ahead of peers in math and logic, perhaps
> you can appreciate what a gut-wrenching thing it is to be
> handed the assignment of doing literary criticism on
> Gravity's Rainbow, without warning.
>
> So even a hint about his sense of humor would
> probably be helpful.
>
> And Steph, she appears to have the same limitations -
> she's on page 92 or so and has pretty well hit the wall.
> clo
>
> "C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
>
>>>Paging Neal Traven. Richard Scheidt?
>>>
>>Is this the first exposure to Pynchon?  If
>>so, that's a tough order.  Start simpler,
>>and kinda learn his sense of humor.
>>
>>--
>>Baby Tyrone
>>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
Subject: Re: Vizslas
Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 16:55:59 -0500
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>From: Tony Harminc <tony@HARMINC.COM>
>Needs just a little more detail, I think...

Strange. I'm seeing what you're seeing now, but Alec, unless he's being a
smart- uh, aleck, apparently could see it. Try
http://shorterlink.com/?B9ZGZE
>
>Btw, do you really say "cul-de-sac" rather than "dead end"?

I say "cul-de-sac" when it ends in a rounded bulb shape. "Dead end" if it
just stops flat.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
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From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 16:01:16 2003
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From: "Alec D. Plotkin" <plotkina@isc.upenn.edu>
To: "'English Language Discussion Group'" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: Yahoo! Maps - 14 William Puckey Dr, Cortlandt Manor, NY 10567-6206
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:56:42 -0500
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>-----Original Message-----
>From: English Language Discussion Group
>[mailto:WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU] On Behalf Of Yahoo!Maps
>Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2003 4:43 PM
>To: WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU
>Subject: Yahoo! Maps - 14 William Puckey Dr, Cortlandt Manor,
>NY 10567-6206
>
>
>Alec Plotkin (plotkina@isc.upenn.edu) has sent you a Yahoo! Map
>------------------------------------------------------------
>Personal message:
>
>Maries street.
>
>Yahoo! Maps - 14 William Puckey Dr, Cortlandt Manor, NY 10567-6206
>http://maps.yahoo.com/py/maps.py?Pyt=Tmap&addr=14+William+Pucke
>y+Dr&city=Cortlandt+Manor&state=NY&slt=41.271505&sln=-73.868649&zip=10567-6
206&country=us&BFKey=&BFCat=&BFClient=&mag=9&cs=9&csz=Cortlandt+Manor,+NY+10
567-620>&name=&desc=&ds=n


Before anyone gets upset. I found the address on www.anywho.com Just need to
know her name and state she lives in.


alec

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:01:26 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vizslas
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02003-03-04 | Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> >From: Tony Harminc <tony@HARMINC.COM>
> >Needs just a little more detail, I think...
>
> Strange. I'm seeing what you're seeing now, but Alec, unless he's being a
> smart- uh, aleck, apparently could see it. Try
> http://shorterlink.com/?B9ZGZE

Definitely a Byzantine cross.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 16:59:17 -0500
From: alyce cresap <alybooks@valstar.net>
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Tony  wrote:
> >Btw, do you really say "cul-de-sac" rather than "dead end"?

They are two different things to my mind.

alyce

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:41:40 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 3:59:17 PM, alyce cresap wrote:

> Tony  wrote:
>> >Btw, do you really say "cul-de-sac" rather than "dead end"?

> They are two different things to my mind.

Which two different things?

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:42:03 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 4:01:26 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-04 | Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
>> >From: Tony Harminc <tony@HARMINC.COM>
>> >Needs just a little more detail, I think...
>>
>> Strange. I'm seeing what you're seeing now, but Alec, unless he's being a
>> smart- uh, aleck, apparently could see it. Try
>> http://shorterlink.com/?B9ZGZE

> Definitely a Byzantine cross.

Bite me, Elaphant Boy.

Karen
"I am, we are,
Who can distinguish us?"
 --Deena Metzger

From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 16:59:05 2003
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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:54:29 -0600 (CST)
From: Natalie Maynor <maynor@ra.msstate.edu>
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http://www.msnbc.com/news/878833.asp?0si=-&cp1=1#BODY

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 16:55:29 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 4:54:29 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> http://www.msnbc.com/news/878833.asp?0si=-&cp1=1#BODY

Who?


Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:02:32 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> They tried it once, back in (?) the 80s, and it caused so much
> trouble (schoolkids having to stand out for the bus in the dark,

I remember the arguments re children standing in the dark.  This may be
stupid -- as in revealing my ignorance of how the sun <works>, but why
would it be darker in the early morning four months before the equinox
than four months after it?

Not having DST is ok with me, I should add.  I'd just as soon have my
daylight in the morning.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:11:15 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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alyce cresap wrote:
> My parents' dogs always were
> unleashed and with us when we were out in the yard (no fences).

Spencer is allowed to walk to and from the car leashless.  I could never
have done that with Bernard, who would have shot away and been in
Sturgis before I could turn around.  I have the feeling that Spencer
would be one who would not do much wandering.  But just one rare moment
of deciding to see what's across the street might be enough.  Remember
those six puppies I've talked about that my mother raised from
one-day-olds when the vet advised <putting them to sleep>?  The reason
my mother was getting up all night and feeding them a formula with an
eye-dropper was that Peggy, their mother, had wandered into the street.
I vividly remember Peggy's death.  I was six.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
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02003-03-02 | Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU> writes:
> OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
> I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
> know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
> for most to be ok with me.

That was Rita you were talking with--well-known in professional
circles as the sole possessor of the final word on teens. It
doesn't prevent us from exchanging some intermediate words,
though. Let me ask: are you cute?

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> clo --
>
> I've forwarded your post to my friend Paul, a Pynchon fan. Hope it works out.

I guess I should've forwarded it to a friend who is a Pynchon scholar,
but I don't know that he could answer the question in a useful way.  He
usually teaches graduate students, who are fairly easy targets for
reading such stuff.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Vizslas
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02003-03-04 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 4:01:26 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > 02003-03-04 | Marie Ascher <lounge_ascher@HOTMAIL.COM> writes:
> >> >From: Tony Harminc <tony@HARMINC.COM>
> >> >Needs just a little more detail, I think...
> >>
> >> Strange. I'm seeing what you're seeing now, but Alec, unless he's being a
> >> smart- uh, aleck, apparently could see it. Try
> >> http://shorterlink.com/?B9ZGZE
>
> > Definitely a Byzantine cross.
>
> Bite me, Elaphant Boy.

The trumpet's always worse ...

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Marie Ascher wrote:

> I couldn't do it. Are you doing this to yourself for the same reason as the
> techno music?

I read clo's posting as that somebody had asked her advice but that she
couldn't give advice, not having read GR.  I don't see passing along the
question to this group as <doing something> to herself.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 5:06:27 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
>> Bite me, Elaphant Boy.

> The trumpet's always worse ...

On the other side? How do you finish this?

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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02003-03-04 | Karen Kay <Karen@WORDWRITE.COM> writes:
> Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 5:06:27 PM, Tushar Samant wrote:
> >> Bite me, Elaphant Boy.
>
> > The trumpet's always worse ...
>
> On the other side? How do you finish this?

Than the BITE! Sheeze!

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
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Thank you for your interest ...

02003-03-02 | Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU> writes:
> <aside> as I haven't quite gauged the flavor of the list yet, I won't
> insert the story of the church Frank co-founded, and it's principle
> rite, a celebrated orgy </aside>

Best keep it under wraps. It won't be news by now, but most
people over here are absolutely unreasonable idiots.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:23:35 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
> > Maybe after I move to BSL, I'll get into horse-racing
> > in NO and win big money on Octibbeha.
>
> A better bet would have been Strike for Richard
> in yesterday's 7th (22.60 to win).

Oh yes.  I didn't know he was running.

> Have a nice plain Tuesday, you miserable sods.

Our cafeteria was quite festive today and is supposedly having a major
bash tonight, with live music.  At noon the festivity was canned music,
garish decorations, serving people wearing MG beads, and special food
offerings (some of which are regular offerings, but today they were in
the MG line).  I had a hard time deciding between shrimp or oyster poboy
and jambalaya.  Finally went with a shrimp poboy, which was quite good.
I forewent the King Cake in the dessert line, having grown tired of KC
this year.  I had the best KC ever yesterday at lunch, when a friend
brought an amazingly good one that his wife had made the night before.
(They're NO natives.)  I had thought the sto-bought ones from NO and
vicinity would surely beat any homemade one, but the one yesterday was
outstanding.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Marie Ascher wrote:

> :-)  They are serving Cajun cooking in our cafeteria today.

I started to add to my previous posting that our MG offerings today were
also mainly Cajun even though the <theme> seemed more New Orleansish
than Cajunish.

Our cafeteria regularly serves pretty good red beans and rice, I might
add.  I get it fairly often.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Our cafeteria was quite festive today and is supposedly having a major
> bash tonight, with live music.  At noon the festivity was canned music,
> garish decorations, serving people wearing MG beads, and special food
> offerings (some of which are regular offerings, but today they were in
> the MG line).

It ain't festive unless it has cosmopolitans.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 17:27:56 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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"C.Q. Featherstonehaugh" wrote:
>
> > >     Daylight Savings Time?  What on Earth is that?
>
> ObPedant: Isn't there only one S in DST?

Indeed there is.  (But I knew what was meant.)

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Our cafeteria regularly serves pretty good red beans and rice, I might
> add.  I get it fairly often.

As the ONLY component, of course.

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In a message dated 03/04/2003 1:34:58 AM Central Standard Time,
stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:

<<
Yeah, what is this passive agressive shit I get from one of my
colleagues where he refuses to spell my name right in an email,
even though it's in each and every one as an example?

>>

What's his name?  If it's not Bob, just call him Bob.  If it is Bob,
call him Chuck.

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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Karen Kay wrote:

> If you encourage him, he'll describe it in exquisite detail!

Was the phallus as nice as this one?
http://www.msstate.edu/Archives/Words-L/phallic.jpg

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Marie Ascher wrote:
> > > Uh, jibes.
> >
> >Either way.
>
> Really? I guess that's why after I wrote jives, I decided to look it up --
> in the M-W New Collegiate Dictionary I have on my desk, jives doesn't have
> such a definition.
>
> But I guess that's evolving language for ya?

Not to my knowledge.  I don't remember your original use of the word now
but thought Karen meant that it was a context in which either jibing or
jiving would work -- like if your experience with a juke joint jibes
with your expectation, you might enjoy the jiving even more.  The words
certainly don't mean the same thing, though.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Rita Chapman wrote:

> the conservation areas to run, he makes big loops around me -- I'm never
> out of his sight, and he keeps checking back.

I thought all dogs did that in that kind of environment.  Even little
Bernardykins, who would shoot out of the house and up the street if
given a chance, would never let me out of his sight when we were out in
the woods looking for a xmas tree or some such occasion.  He would keep
looking back over his shoulder to make sure I was in sight.  Spencer
also does that when I take him running on the North Farm.

 > -- they're more earnest, as Natalie observes.

I don't know any Viszlas personally.  I thought maybe it was fake
earnestness -- posing for the camera.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Subject: Re: [WORDS-L] Light
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In a message dated 03/04/2003 7:34:32 AM Central Standard Time,
rmirth@HOTMAIL.COM writes:

<<
Change the clocks already! Feels like it's time to do it now.

>>

No, no, no!  I love it light early in the morning.  It makes me
feel better to get up at 5:30 and walk to work at 6:30

Evelyn Duncan
brandykitt@aol.com
This account protected by an attack cabbit.

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Karen Kay wrote:

> sense to me, though--silence comes from within, not without.

The glorious silence when I go to bed in this house is from without, as
was the noise at my previous house.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:03:53 -0600
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alyce cresap wrote:

> It's right up there with all the booksellers who keep shouting "Here!
> Here!" whenever they agree with something.

I wrote that once in e-mail without realizing it until the message was
zipping away.  I don't see it as like jibe/jive since there's no
pronunciation difference.  I mean I know the difference between "here"
and "hear" and don't know why I wrote "here" -- except that it's sort of
like writing "it's" for "its" in e-mail, which I've also done even
though I've never done that in any other kind of writing.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:04:42 -0600
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Marie Ascher wrote:

> The Grateful Dead went to the desert and recorded silence, so I've heard.
> And in "24 Hour Party People", Martin Hannett (who became the producer for
> Joy Division) is first encountered recording silence.

The problem with playing taped silence to cover up noise is that I'm not
quite sure silence can cover up noise.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 5:23:35 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> I had thought the sto-bought ones from NO and vicinity would
> surely beat any homemade one, but the one yesterday was
> outstanding.

There's that bizarre bias again.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 6:24:21 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Sardines are said to be <in> now.  I bet you food-followers already knew
> that.

What does <in> mean, wrt food?

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:28:29 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tony Harminc wrote:

> Somehow the thought
> of a cul-de-sac at both ends is odd.

They helicopter in.  Or park on another street and hike.  Or take a
canoe up a creek?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:44:46 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Vizslas
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        The sign at the entrance to my cul-de-sac says "dead end."

Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Tony Harminc wrote:
>
>
>>Btw, do you really say "cul-de-sac" rather than "dead end"?
>>
>
> I would say "cul-de-sac" when talking about a residential street and
> "dead-end" when talking about a commercial street.  Don't know why.  (I
> can imagine saying dead-end for a residential street but not cul-de-sac
> for commercial street, for whatever that's worth.)  Maybe it's that
> cul-de-sac is the normal term in real estate descriptions.
>
> --
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)
>
>


--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:12:51 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Janet Hardy wrote:

> One of my authors tells me that there's a theory of the origin of the
> word "jazz" which posits it as a derivative of "jizz."
>
> Comments, linguists?

It is thought by many that "jazz" applied to music came from its meaning
re sex.  I don't know about "jizz."  Don't know the word at all.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 18:13:43 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 5:54:52 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> The words certainly don't mean the same thing, though.

Yes, they do.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Sardines are said to be <in> now.  I bet you food-followers already knew
that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:

> > Canned salmon.
>
> Really? I always debone them.

You debone canned salmon??  The bones are smushed.  Oh -- I bet you mean
you debone non-canned salmon.  Canners don't do that.  But you don't
really notice the bones.  They <blend>.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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On Tuesday, March 4, 2003, at 08:14 , Doris Markland wrote:

> What kind of publication is the
> London Daily Mail?  Is it a regular
> newspaper or a tabloid?  What kind
> of slant is it known for?
>
>            - D. M.

It's a regular newspaper (but tabloid in shape) on the
right of the spectrum over here.

Roy

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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 6:26:15 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > Canned salmon.
>>
>> Really? I always debone them.

> You debone canned salmon??

Yes.

> The bones are smushed.

No.

> Oh -- I bet you mean you debone non-canned salmon.

No, I buy fillets.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Doris Markland wrote:
>
> What kind of publication is the
> London Daily Mail?  Is it a regular
> newspaper or a tabloid?  What kind
> of slant is it known for?

Roy, where are you?  It's stuck in my head that the LDM is an extremely
right-wing tabloid, but I won't swear to that.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 18:45:13 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
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clyde w. voigtlander wrote:

> At 05:24 PM 3/4/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
>
>> 02003-03-02 | Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU> writes:
>> > OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
>> > I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
>> > know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
>> > for most to be ok with me.
>>
>> That was Rita you were talking with--well-known in professional
>> circles as the sole possessor of the final word on teens. It
>> doesn't prevent us from exchanging some intermediate words,
>> though. Let me ask: are you cute?
>
>
> Hey, you don't believe in Fowler---so why the hell should we pay any
> attention to you, English newbie?


        Because he's cute.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: eccentric
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:45:33 -0500
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> Driving in New England summer is the pits. Aaargh - I remember many hours
> of barely moving traffic in RI. I'm not looking forward to getting to BH.
>
> -rahsmi

You should meet me here and we'll go from here in the Taurus of Toleration.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tony Harminc wrote:

> Btw, do you really say "cul-de-sac" rather than "dead end"?

I would say "cul-de-sac" when talking about a residential street and
"dead-end" when talking about a commercial street.  Don't know why.  (I
can imagine saying dead-end for a residential street but not cul-de-sac
for commercial street, for whatever that's worth.)  Maybe it's that
cul-de-sac is the normal term in real estate descriptions.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Adam Hartfield" <adamh1@attbi.com>
To: "English Language Discussion Group" <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: RE: eccentric
Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:43:30 -0500
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> There are no service plazas.    You really haven't traveled much, have
> you?   You don't have to "hunt" for a service station.   They have signs
> that go high up in the air so that you can see them from the
> interstate.  But you do have to exit to get to them.

No, I haven't travelled much. I haven't been to Europe.

Thanks for the info.

--Adam
adamh1@attbi.com

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
From: "clyde w. voigtlander" <cwv@panax.com>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
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At 05:24 PM 3/4/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
>02003-03-02 | Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU> writes:
> > OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
> > I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
> > know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
> > for most to be ok with me.
>
>That was Rita you were talking with--well-known in professional
>circles as the sole possessor of the final word on teens. It
>doesn't prevent us from exchanging some intermediate words,
>though. Let me ask: are you cute?

Hey, you don't believe in Fowler---so why the hell should we pay any
attention to you, English newbie?

cwv

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
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02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
> >At 05:24 PM 3/4/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
> >>02003-03-02 | Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU> writes:
>
> >>> OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
> >>> I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
> >>> know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
> >>> for most to be ok with me.
> >>
> >>That was Rita you were talking with--well-known in professional
> >>circles as the sole possessor of the final word on teens. It
> >>doesn't prevent us from exchanging some intermediate words,
> >>though. Let me ask: are you cute?
> >
> >Hey, you don't believe in Fowler---so why the hell should we pay any
> >attention to you, English newbie?
>
>        Because he's cute.

Certainly I believe in Fowler but that's beside the point. Thanks for
the correct answer, Rita. This reminds me of the carnival teaching
style of Prof Gandhi in college--"Behram (or whoever), what's the
incorrect answer?" <answer> "OK, Samant what's the correct answer?"

It was only a calculus class. I didn't grow correct answers on every
topic until a year later.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Light
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02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> The problem with playing taped silence to cover up noise is that I'm not
> quite sure silence can cover up noise.

Not up on the latest BoBO technology, I see!

<http://www.bose.com/noise_reduction/qc_headset/>

I have it. It cost a pretty penny but the moment I put it on,
I realized it was worth it. The look is quite understated and
authentic. Yes, in some ways it's a power-sucking monstrosity,
but finally I feel safe. Without it I would certainly have gone
crazy.

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
> > Our cafeteria regularly serves pretty good red beans and rice, I might
> > add.  I get it fairly often.
>
> As the ONLY component, of course.

The only component of what?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:
> > I had thought the sto-bought ones from NO and vicinity would
> > surely beat any homemade one, but the one yesterday was
> > outstanding.
>
> There's that bizarre bias again.

What bizarre bias?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:27:55 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Tushar Samant wrote:
> > > > Our cafeteria regularly serves pretty good red beans and rice, I might
> > > > add.  I get it fairly often.
> > >
> > > As the ONLY component, of course.
> >
> > The only component of what?
>
> Lunch.

As in what else do I eat with it?  That depends.  If it happens to be
the Maroon Plate, I will get two vegetables since two vegetables come
automatically with the Maroon Plate, along with bread and tea.  If it's
not the Maroon Plate that day, I will get something like slaw or a small
salad or maybe one regular vegetable.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:32:23 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 7:08:11 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > The words certainly don't mean the same thing, though.
>>
>> Yes, they do.

> Not in my world.  My world is mutant, of course.  But in my mutant world
> jibe and jive are different words with different meanings.

Well, in my world, sometimes they have the same meaning and
sometimes they have different meanings.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 7:12:29 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > Sardines are said to be <in> now.  I bet you food-followers already knew
>> > that.
>>
>> What does <in> mean, wrt food?

> Fashionable.  Trendy.

How is this manifested?

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
>                    I think I might have mentioned a good while back a
> political discussion I had with somebody who works at a Telecomm window
> in the basement of my building.  She's a big Dubya fan, but when we
> started talking about details, it became apparent that she knew nothing
> at all -- she just somehow <liked> Dubya. [etc]

That's probably a bit extreme. I think the essence was in a random
"person on the street" interviewed by TV--she said, she didn't like
the sound of it, especially with her son being ... etc etc ... but
if the Prez thinks it is the thing to do ... you know, to protect
us ... well, gotta do it. That's IT. That was the WHOLE of her take.

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>Rita Chapman wrote:
> > the conservation areas to run, he makes big loops around me -- I'm never
> > out of his sight, and he keeps checking back.
>
>I thought all dogs did that in that kind of environment.
>  -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

It's fun to see dogs hiking in Acadia do that.  They are supposed to be on
leash.   But often they aren't.  It's happened a number of times that we've
met a dog on the trail.  Invariably, they look at us and then trot back to
their owners who are trailing behind.


    --bonniev

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Karen Kay wrote:
> > http://www.msnbc.com/news/878833.asp?0si=-&cp1=1#BODY
>
> Who?

The person who wrote it -- the mole-faced woman who's sometimes on the
last page of Newsweek.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tushar Samant wrote:

> It ain't festive unless it has cosmopolitans.

What are cosmopolitans in this context?  I would say that the eaters
were a pretty cosmopolitan group.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > It ain't festive unless it has cosmopolitans.
>
> What are cosmopolitans in this context?  I would say that the eaters
> were a pretty cosmopolitan group.

Were they drinking pink drinks? That's the test.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:08:11 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> > The words certainly don't mean the same thing, though.
>
> Yes, they do.

Not in my world.  My world is mutant, of course.  But in my mutant world
jibe and jive are different words with different meanings.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Karen Kay wrote:
> > Sardines are said to be <in> now.  I bet you food-followers already knew
> > that.
>
> What does <in> mean, wrt food?

Fashionable.  Trendy.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:11:37 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Attn: Natalie UPDATE
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
>
>>Tushar Samant wrote:
>>
>>
>>>It ain't festive unless it has cosmopolitans.
>>>
>>What are cosmopolitans in this context?  I would say that the eaters
>>were a pretty cosmopolitan group.
>>
>
> Were they drinking pink drinks? That's the test.


        We had our annual pancake supper at church.  Ana decided to
be a "big girl" and help bus tables.

        I know Alec doesn't care, but I found out today that three of
the students in my remedial class carry MR (mental
retardation) labels, meaning they're probably in the 60 - 70
IQ range.  Right now we're writing persuasive research
papers and reading Julius Caesar and they're doing fine.  I
am floored.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:12:12 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>
>>clyde w. voigtlander wrote:
>>
>>>At 05:24 PM 3/4/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:
>>>
>>>>02003-03-02 | Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU> writes:
>>>>
>>>>>OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
>>>>>I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
>>>>>know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
>>>>>for most to be ok with me.
>>>>>
>>>>That was Rita you were talking with--well-known in professional
>>>>circles as the sole possessor of the final word on teens. It
>>>>doesn't prevent us from exchanging some intermediate words,
>>>>though. Let me ask: are you cute?
>>>>
>>>Hey, you don't believe in Fowler---so why the hell should we pay any
>>>attention to you, English newbie?
>>>
>>       Because he's cute.
>>
>
> Certainly I believe in Fowler but that's beside the point. Thanks for
> the correct answer, Rita. This reminds me of the carnival teaching
> style of Prof Gandhi in college--"Behram (or whoever), what's the
> incorrect answer?" <answer> "OK, Samant what's the correct answer?"
>
> It was only a calculus class. I didn't grow correct answers on every
> topic until a year later.


        Come, darling, and be my pet.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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Karen Kay wrote:

> > You debone canned salmon??
>
> Yes.

Weird.  Didn't your Mama ever tell you that much of the food value was
in the bones?

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>         The sign at the entrance to my cul-de-sac says "dead end."

I've never seen a sign that said "cul-de-sac."

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Tushar Samant wrote:

> Were they drinking pink drinks? That's the test.

I don't know.  The cups are opaque.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>
>        Come, darling, and be my pet.

Don't pet-ronize me!

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:20:12 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
> > > Our cafeteria regularly serves pretty good red beans and rice, I might
> > > add.  I get it fairly often.
> >
> > As the ONLY component, of course.
>
> The only component of what?

Lunch.

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02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
>
> > Were they drinking pink drinks? That's the test.
>
> I don't know.  The cups are opaque.

Then the color scarcely matters ... it's not festive, sorry.

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>
> It's a regular newspaper (but tabloid in shape) on the
> right of the spectrum over here.
>
> Roy

Thanks.

              - D. M.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:25:40 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> The person who wrote it -- the mole-faced woman who's sometimes on the
> last page of Newsweek.

One thing I liked about it was that its <moderate> stance might make
some of the Dubya robots stop and think a bit (as in the masses, not as
in his band of thugs).  But then I've grown depressed about how much the
masses think at all.  I think I might have mentioned a good while back a
political discussion I had with somebody who works at a Telecomm window
in the basement of my building.  She's a big Dubya fan, but when we
started talking about details, it became apparent that she knew nothing
at all -- she just somehow <liked> Dubya.  We had another conversation
today, a very brief one because I fled before barfing or saying
something tacky.  I said something about the federal deficit, and she
said, "It was Clinton who got us into debt."  When I said, "But there
was a surplus when Bush took office," she said, "I don't know anything
about that, but I am surprised that God hasn't struck us down for all
the sin, like the sin during Clinton's administration."
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:31:28 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 7:07:08 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Karen Kay wrote:
>> > I had thought the sto-bought ones from NO and vicinity would
>> > surely beat any homemade one, but the one yesterday was
>> > outstanding.
>>
>> There's that bizarre bias again.

> What bizarre bias?

Against homemade cakes and fo sto-bought.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>
> We had our annual pancake supper at church.  Ana decided to
> be a "big girl" and help bus tables.

Always a bad sign ... before you know it these "big girls"
are going around with brooms and beating up innocent guys
on the street.

> I know Alec doesn't care, but I found out today that three of
> the students in my remedial class carry MR (mental retardation)
> labels, meaning they're probably in the 60 - 70 IQ range.  Right
> now we're writing persuasive research papers and reading Julius
> Caesar and they're doing fine.  I am floored.

I'd research Julius Caesar--for instance, was it written for
an attention-deficient audience? It was after all a period
when lots of mega-corporations were fighting dirty to corner
the entertainment market. Probably lots of old people ranting
about the complete illiteracy of teens and the apathetic
coffeehouse BS-ing of younger adults who ought to act more
maturely. The biggest of the ranters on the censor board,
too. Sometimes I wish the IQ test was invented a lot earlier.
We wouldn't be in such deep doodoo now.

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
> > > > > Our cafeteria regularly serves pretty good red beans and rice, I might
> > > > > add.  I get it fairly often.
> > > >
> > > > As the ONLY component, of course.
> > >
> > > The only component of what?
> >
> > Lunch.
>
> As in what else do I eat with it?  That depends.  If it happens to be
> the Maroon Plate, I will get two vegetables since two vegetables come
> automatically with the Maroon Plate, along with bread and tea.  If it's
> not the Maroon Plate that day, I will get something like slaw or a small
> salad or maybe one regular vegetable.

Oh. Well my bad. Moving on ...

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 19:34:17 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Subject: Re[2]: Random House on jive/jibe
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 7:13:18 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
> Weird.  Didn't your Mama ever tell you that much of the food value was
> in the bones?

Yes. But my mama also encouraged me not to choke. I only take out
the vertebrae and the big bones.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:36:24 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Viszlas
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Rita Chapman wrote:
>
>
>>the conservation areas to run, he makes big loops around me -- I'm never
>>out of his sight, and he keeps checking back.
>>
>
> I thought all dogs did that in that kind of environment.  Even little
> Bernardykins, who would shoot out of the house and up the street if
> given a chance, would never let me out of his sight when we were out in
> the woods looking for a xmas tree or some such occasion.  He would keep
> looking back over his shoulder to make sure I was in sight.  Spencer
> also does that when I take him running on the North Farm.


        Nope.


>  > -- they're more earnest, as Natalie observes.
>
> I don't know any Viszlas personally.  I thought maybe it was fake
> earnestness -- posing for the camera.


        No -- that's a typical expression.



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> > What bizarre bias?
>
> Against homemade cakes and fo sto-bought.

I said that a homemade birthday cake would have been a gigantic
embarrassment in my childhood.  I guess a really super imitator *might*
have been able to imitate a Jitney cake, the way this person's wife the
other night imitated a King Cake with a recipe she'd gotten from one of
the KC sellers in NO.  But I think it would have been extremely
difficult for anybody to have pulled that off.  I bet it would have been
realized and that the bday person would have felt mightily embarrassed.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Karen Kay wrote:

> >> What does <in> mean, wrt food?
>
> > Fashionable.  Trendy.
>
> How is this manifested?

Beats me.  I'm not into trendy eating.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: praguefestival@dancefestival_praguefestival.com
To: blong@uiuc.edu
Subject: WorlDancEventS 2003 Newsletter
         praguefestival_dancefestival_dancegrandprix
Date: Wed, 5 Mar 2003 00.30.53
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<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<head>
   <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
   <meta name="Author" content="giorgio mordenti">
   <meta name="GENERATOR" content="Mozilla/4.79 [en] (Win98; U) [Netscape]">
   <title>newspragueen</title>
</head>
<body>

<blockquote>&nbsp;
<table BORDER=0 CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 COLS=1 WIDTH="100%" >
<tr>
<td BGCOLOR="#000000">
<center><b><font color="#FFCC00"><font size=+4>Prague Festival Dance Prize
2003</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+3>from 17th to 21st April 2003
in Prague (Czech Republic)</font></font></b></center>
</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td BGCOLOR="#3333FF">
<center><b><font color="#FFFFFF"><font size=+3>&amp;</font></font></b></center>
</td>
</tr>

<tr>
<td BGCOLOR="#FFCC00">
<center><b><font color="#3333FF"><font size=+4>Dance Grand Prix "Italia"
2003</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#3333FF"><font size=+3>which will be heldeld in Italy
from 19th to 24th June 2003</font></font></b></center>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

<center>
<p><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>the WARM UP TIME!!</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+2>the upcoming <i>W</i>ORL<i>D</i>ANC<i>E</i>VENT<i>S</i></font><font size=+1>...
</font><font size=+2>like
no other</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+3>IS ARRIVING!</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+3>ARE YOU READY FOR THIS??</font></font></b>
<p><b><font size=+3>International Event CompetitionforBallet, Contemporary,
Modern,</font></b>
<br><b><font size=+3>Hip Hop, Latin, Swing, Folk, Tap,</font></b>
<br><b><font size=+3>Schools, Companies and Dance-Theatrical Educational
Institutes.</font></b>
<p><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+3>AWAITING the SPRINGTIME for the
UPCOMING</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#FF0000"><i><font size=+4>E</font></i><font size=+3>ASTER
and </font><i><font size=+4>S</font></i><font size=+3>UMMER </font><i><font size=+4>D</font></i><font size=+3>ANC</font><i><font size=+4>E</font></i><font size=+3>VENT</font><i><font size=+4>S</font></i><font size=+3>!!!!!!!</font></font></b>
<p><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+3>You can book the LAST places
for your dancegroup to participate!!</font></font></b>
<br>&nbsp;
<p><b><u><font color="#000000"><font size=+4>Follow our instructions to
contact us by fax</font></font></u></b>
<br><b><font size=+4><u><font color="#000000">or search our web address
with all info and e.mails on the most important Search Engine under "</font></u><font color="#3366FF">dancefestival</font><u><font color="#000000">"
or "</font></u><font color="#FF6600">praguefestival</font><u><font color="#000000">"</font></u></font></b>
<p><b><font size=+4>AND FAX YOUR REQUEST of info to</font></b>
<br><b><font size=+4>&lt;0039054751299></font></b>
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<p><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+2>DANCERS, CHOREOGRAPHERS, DANCESTUDENTS,
DANCELOVERS:</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+2>PREPARE YOURSELF TO ENTER IN
THE</font></font></b>
<br><b><i><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>D</font></font><font size=+3>ANCEFESTIVAL</font><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>S</font></font><font size=+3>EASON</font><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>2</font></font><font size=+3>00</font><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>3</font></font><font size=+3>,</font></i></b>
<br><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+2>THE MOST FAMOUS DANCE THEATRE</font></font></b>
<br><b><i><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>"H</font></font><font size=+3>ALL
OF </font><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>F</font></font><font size=+3>AME
</font><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>A</font></font><font color="#000000"><font size=+3>WARD</font></font><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>S"</font></font></i><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+2>IN
THE </font><i><font size=+4>W</font></i></font><font size=+2><i><font color="#000000">ORLD</font></i><font color="#FF0000">:</font></font></b></center>

<p><b><font color="#3333FF"><font size=+2>1998 - "Centro Studio Danza e
Movimento"</font><font size=+3> FLORENCE - ITALY</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#3333FF"><font size=+2>1999 - "Il Balletto" CastelFranco
Veneto </font><font size=+3>VENICE - ITALY</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#3333FF"><font size=+2>2000 - "Academy for Performing
Arts" </font><font size=+3>HONG KONG - CHINA</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#3333FF"><font size=+2>2001 - "Uai Qi Dan&ccedil;a"
</font><font size=+3>FORTALEZA
- BRAZIL</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#3333FF"><font size=+2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
- "Ballet Folklorico Mexicano" </font><font size=+3>CANCUN - MEXICO</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#3333FF"><font size=+2>2002 - "Elta Dance Company"
</font><font size=+3>LIPSEKT
- RUSSIA</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#3333FF"><font size=+2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
-&nbsp; "Skip Entertainment"</font><font size=+3> GUAM - USA</font></font></b>
<center><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>2003.... MAYBE</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+4>YOUR DANCEGROUP!!!!!!</font></font></b>
<br>&nbsp;
<br>&nbsp;
<p>
<hr WIDTH="100%"><b><font color="#FFCC00"><font size=+2>And during the&nbsp;
PRAGUE FESTIVAL 2003:</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#FFCC00"><font size=+2>THE SPECIAL AWARD CAREER</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#FFCC00"><font size=+2>TO</font></font></b>
<br><b><font color="#FFCC00"><font size=+2>one of the&nbsp; "DANCE CONTEMPORARY
US. STAR":</font></font></b>
<p><b><font color="#999900"><font size=+3>Mrs. MONIQUE MELTON</font></font></b>
<p><b><font color="#999900"><font size=+3>METROPOLITAN BALLET COMPANY</font></font></b>
<br>&nbsp;
<p>
<hr WIDTH="100%">
<p><b><font size=+2>The deadline to register your group for this incredible
opportunity is the 15 March!!!</font></b>
<p><b><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+1>A meeting of dancers, dancelovers,
amateurs and audience&nbsp; from all the five continents</font></font></b>
<p><b><font size=+2>All the subject of Therpsichore Art will be in competition</font></b>
<p><b><font size=+2>All the languages in the dressing-rooms of our stages</font></b>
<br>
<hr WIDTH="100%">
<p><b><font size=+2>A special DANCE OPPORTUNITY in PRAGUE during the Festival:</font></b>
<br><b><i><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+2>the The Ballet Company of
the National Theatre of Prague,</font></font></i></b>
<br><b><i><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+2>will present the 19April,
in the the National Theatre of Prague,</font></font></i></b>
<br><b><i><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+2>the Ballet "SWAN LAKE" choregraphy
by M. Petipa.</font></font></i></b>
<br><b><i><font color="#000000"><font size=+2>&nbsp;(free on charges for
every dance participant to the&nbsp; Prague Festival 2003)</font></font></i></b>
<br>
<hr WIDTH="100%"></center>

<blockquote>
<center><b><font size=+2>These are&nbsp; the&nbsp; "</font><i><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+3>W</font></font></i><font size=+2>ORL</font><i><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+3>D</font></font></i><font size=+2>ANC</font><i><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+3>E</font></font></i><font size=+2>VENT</font><i><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+3>S</font></font></i><font size=+2>"</font></b>
<br><b><font size=+2>FESTIVAL COMPETITIONS !</font></b>
<br><b><font size=+2>Our Organizzation has over 10 years of group and educational
events experience.</font></b>
<br><b><font size=+2>Do not risk the success of your performing groups
with other Companies without our theatrical experience!</font></b>
<p><b><font color="#3366FF"><font size=+4>Ask &amp; compare!</font></font></b>
<p>
<hr WIDTH="100%"></center>
</blockquote>
</blockquote>

<center><b><font color="#CC0000"><font size=+1>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
If you require any kind of information about our organization I can provide
you with the e-mail and post address of many&nbsp; previous participants
from all over the world</font></font></b></center>

<blockquote>
<center>
<hr WIDTH="100%">
<br><b><font color="#000000"><font size=+2>The Best Things Happen While
You're Dancing</font></font></b></center>

<hr WIDTH="100%"></blockquote>
<b><i><font size=+2>your group will dance and compete in a spirit of friendly
in the biggest meeting of WorlDance in europe the next seasons and</font></i></b>
<p><font size=+4><b><i>G</i><font color="#FF0000">o</font></b><i>o<b><font color="#3333FF">D</font></b></i>a<b><i><font color="#FF0000">n</font></i></b>c<b><i><font color="#3333FF">E</font></i></b></font>
<p><b><i><font color="#FF0000"><font size=+3>SEE YOU IN&nbsp; our dance
floors......</font></font></i></b>
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Karen Kay wrote:
> Yes. But my mama also encouraged me not to choke. I only take out
> the vertebrae and the big bones.

I obviously buy different brands of canned salmon from what you buy.
I've never seen big bones in mine.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 19:48:23 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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|How did humble sardines get so hip?

More at http://www.msnbc.com/news/879544.asp
--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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>Sardines are said to be <in> now.

sez who?

-rashmi



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Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*.
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rotfl!

Ask Paul, not me.
I am 46 and obese, but with a twinkle in my eye and an easily aroused
sense of the ridiculous, which has just been tickled mightily.
clo

On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-02 | Carolyn Ostrander <clostran@SYR.EDU> writes:
> > OK, color me confused. But in case the confusion begins with me,
> > I was trying to express that I don't try to be "in" with teens. I just
> > know that they are on their own path, and this seems to be enough
> > for most to be ok with me.
>
> That was Rita you were talking with--well-known in professional
> circles as the sole possessor of the final word on teens. It
> doesn't prevent us from exchanging some intermediate words,
> though. Let me ask: are you cute?
>

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On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, Natalie Maynor wrote:

> Janet Hardy wrote:
>
> > One of my authors tells me that there's a theory of the origin of the
> > word "jazz" which posits it as a derivative of "jizz."
> >
> > Comments, linguists?
>
> It is thought by many that "jazz" applied to music came from its meaning
> re sex.  I don't know about "jizz."  Don't know the word at all.
>
 <blink> Don't know "gism"?
clo

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Karen Kay wrote:

> Well, in my world, sometimes they have the same meaning and
> sometimes they have different meanings.

    The Queen of Hearts has spoken!

JMW

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:44:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "Bethany K. Dumas" <dumasb@utkux.utcc.utk.edu>
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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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I tried to do a Retrospect Express backup of my G4 laptop files tonight -
I ran out of disks. As I watched, many .mp3 files were backed up.I cannot
find those .mp3 files on my disk. Where do they hide them?

Bethany

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:20:46 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-04 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
>
>>rotfl!
>>
>>Ask Paul, not me.
>>I am 46 and obese, but with a twinkle in my eye and an easily aroused
>>sense of the ridiculous, which has just been tickled mightily.
>>
>
> There are too many ... words in this ... excuse me, I will be back.


        My god.  You've stunned poor Tushar.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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From: "Marie Ascher" <lounge_ascher@hotmail.com>
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>From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>Sardines are said to be <in> now.  I bet you food-followers already knew
>that.

Fresh sardines are totally yummy, but I didn't know they were <in>. Canned
sardines I can only tolerate periodically, although I know I have some
around here somewhere -- they moved here with me from the city. Maybe I'll
eat them for lunch tomorrow.

Marie

_________________________________________________________________
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Not that I know what you're talking about, since I seem to have deleted or
walked in late on the first part of the conversation, but -

yes, but is the timing right to permit attendance at the Aroostook Cty
Potato Festival as well? I really want to compete in the mashed potato
wrestling this year!
clo

On Tue, 4 Mar 2003, bonniev wrote:

> What about the 4th of July parade?
>
> The Bar Harbor parade starts and end at the Athletic Field on lower (to the

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-03-04 | clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU writes:
> rotfl!
>
> Ask Paul, not me.
> I am 46 and obese, but with a twinkle in my eye and an easily aroused
> sense of the ridiculous, which has just been tickled mightily.

There are too many ... words in this ... excuse me, I will be back.

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:21:46 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: Attn: Natalie UPDATE
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>
>>We had our annual pancake supper at church.  Ana decided to
>>be a "big girl" and help bus tables.
>>
>
> Always a bad sign ... before you know it these "big girls"
> are going around with brooms and beating up innocent guys
> on the street.


        Well, they do spank one of the members of the vestry
occasionally.


> I'd research Julius Caesar--for instance, was it written for
> an attention-deficient audience? It was after all a period
> when lots of mega-corporations were fighting dirty to corner
> the entertainment market. Probably lots of old people ranting
> about the complete illiteracy of teens and the apathetic
> coffeehouse BS-ing of younger adults who ought to act more
> maturely. The biggest of the ranters on the censor board,
> too. Sometimes I wish the IQ test was invented a lot earlier.
> We wouldn't be in such deep doodoo now.
>


        *Exactly*.




--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


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>Not that I know what you're talking about, since I seem to have deleted or
>walked in late on the first part of the conversation, but -

Words-l has an annual ftf party, always held on or near July 4th.   This
year it will be Bar Harbor, Maine.

>yes, but is the timing right to permit attendance at the Aroostook Cty
>Potato Festival as well? I really want to compete in the mashed potato
>wrestling this year!       --clo

Aroostook County is well north of us.  I'm not sure when the festival is
but my guess would be it would be much later than July 4th.   We don't
usually get our crops into the ground until the first of June.


    --bonniev

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From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
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02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>
>        My god.  You've stunned poor Tushar.

My god, you are TOTALLY jealous!

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Subject: Re: More Fest Faq
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>>yes, but is the timing right to permit attendance at the Aroostook Cty
>>Potato Festival as well? I really want to compete in the mashed potato
>>wrestling this year!       --clo
>
>Aroostook County is well north of us.  I'm not sure when the festival is
>but my guess would be it would be much later than July 4th.   We don't
>usually get our crops into the ground until the first of June.
>    --bonniev

Wait!!   The timing is right, after all:

July 10-18
52nd Annual Maine Potato Blossom Festival
Fort Fairfield, Maine
(207) 472-3802
Did you know that potato plants have beautiful white, pink, or lavender
flowers? Potato plants, one of Maine's most important crops, are in full
bloom during this annual celebration in Fort Fairfield. The annual Maine
Potato Blossom Festival features more than 85 events, including mashed
potato wrestling, a beach volleyball tournament, a canoe race, a classic
car show, a festival parade, a light parade on the Aroostook River, and
fireworks.



    --bonniev

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 20:36:13 -0600
From: Tushar Samant <scribble@pobox.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Attn: Natalie UPDATE
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02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
> Tushar Samant wrote:
> >02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>
> >>We had our annual pancake supper at church.  Ana decided to
> >>be a "big girl" and help bus tables.
>
> >Always a bad sign ... before you know it these "big girls"
> >are going around with brooms and beating up innocent guys
> >on the street.
>
> Well, they do spank one of the members of the vestry
> occasionally.

Shocking ...

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:40:11 -0600
From: Rita Chapman <rouvalis@swbell.net>
Subject: Re: popculture why? (was re: BI)
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
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Tushar Samant wrote:

> 02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>
>>       My god.  You've stunned poor Tushar.
>>
>
> My god, you are TOTALLY jealous!
>

        I am *sob*.  I felt you slip away from me after the potato
wrestling remark -- it was a physical pain my heart for I
knew I could not compete and that my dream of someday
sitting on the Chain of Rocks Br. with you staring out into
the hot, thick night vainly trying to find the Arch in the
distance and breathing in the metallic perfume of the Mighty
Mississippi vanished in that very instant.  Oh, Tushar! Why?



--
Rita Rouvalis Chapman
rouvalis@swbell.net, rita@etext.org
http://www.etext.org/~rita


From owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU  Tue Mar  4 20:45:05 2003
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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:40:21 -0600
From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@maynor.net>
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Rashmi Murthy wrote:
>
> >Sardines are said to be <in> now.
>
> sez who?

Newsweek.  I read about trendy sardines while walking back from the p.o.
this morning.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:

> > It is thought by many that "jazz" applied to music came from its meaning
> > re sex.  I don't know about "jizz."  Don't know the word at all.
> >
>  <blink> Don't know "gism"?

I know "gism" as a bound morpheme but not as a free morpheme.

--
 -- Natalie (natalie@maynor.net)

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At 06:55 PM 3/4/2003 -0600, tushar wrote:

>Certainly I believe in Fowler but that's beside the point. Thanks for
>the correct answer, Rita.

So, Tushar, how many credentials have you?

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At 08:40 PM 3/4/2003 -0600, Rita Chapman wrote:
>Tushar Samant wrote:
>
>>02003-03-04 | Rita Chapman <rouvalis@SWBELL.NET> writes:
>>
>>>       My god.  You've stunned poor Tushar.
>>
>>My god, you are TOTALLY jealous!
>
>        I am *sob*.  I felt you slip away from me after the potato
>wrestling remark -- it was a physical pain my heart for I
>knew I could not compete and that my dream of someday
>sitting on the Chain of Rocks Br. with you staring out into
>the hot, thick night vainly trying to find the Arch in the
>distance and breathing in the metallic perfume of the Mighty
>Mississippi vanished in that very instant.  Oh, Tushar! Why?

Where is the hate?

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At 08:41 PM 3/4/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:
>
> > > It is thought by many that "jazz" applied to music came from its meaning
> > > re sex.  I don't know about "jizz."  Don't know the word at all.
> > >
> >  <blink> Don't know "gism"?
>
>I know "gism" as a bound morpheme but not as a free morpheme.

I'm all for free morphemes.

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:21:35 -0600
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 7:51:04 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:

>>Sardines are said to be <in> now.

> sez who?

In in Europe.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 21:31:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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            <a05200f07ba8a9c7ee993@[67.118.125.98]>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 9:15:58 PM, Betty wrote:

> At 08:41 PM 3/4/2003 -0600, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>>clostran@MAILBOX.SYR.EDU wrote:
>>
>> > > It is thought by many that "jazz" applied to music came from its meaning
>> > > re sex.  I don't know about "jizz."  Don't know the word at all.
>> > >
>> >  <blink> Don't know "gism"?
>>
>>I know "gism" as a bound morpheme but not as a free morpheme.

> I'm all for free morphemes.

Free The Morphemes!!!!

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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In a message dated 3/4/2003 4:11:34 PM, natalie@MAYNOR.NET writes:

<< I vividly remember Peggy's death.  I was six.
 >>

How sad. My father gave away the only dog I ever had, because he was too much
trouble, he claimed. I had picked him out from the litter a neighbor's dog
had, but my feelings weren't considered. I knew he'd get a good home with my
father's friend, but still... Still remember him to this day, and how unhappy
I was THEN. Some wounds never heal, I guess. Theo

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Adam:

> > Driving in New England summer is the pits. Aaargh - I remember many
>hours
> > of barely moving traffic in RI. I'm not looking forward to getting to
>BH.

>You should meet me here and we'll go from here in the Taurus of Toleration.

You're on.

-rashmi

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From: "Rashmi Murthy" <rmirth@hotmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Tushar staring out into the hot,
Date: Wed, 05 Mar 2003 04:38:18 +0000
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BB:

 >       I am *sob*.  I felt you slip away from me after the potato
> >wrestling remark -- it was a physical pain my heart for I
> >knew I could not compete and that my dream of someday
> >sitting on the Chain of Rocks Br. with you staring out into
> >the hot, thick night vainly trying to find the Arch in the
> >distance and breathing in the metallic perfume of the Mighty
> >Mississippi vanished in that very instant.  Oh, Tushar! Why?

>Where is the hate?

Apparently, this week, I have all the hate.

-rashmi

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Date: Tue, 4 Mar 2003 22:47:57 -0600
From: Karen Kay <Karen@WordWrite.com>
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Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 10:48:24 PM, Janet Hardy wrote:

>>  > There are no service plazas.    You really haven't traveled much, have
>>>  you?   You don't have to "hunt" for a service station.   They have signs
>>>  that go high up in the air so that you can see them from the
>>>  interstate.  But you do have to exit to get to them.
>>
>>No, I haven't travelled much. I haven't been to Europe.

> A WLM yesterday: someone told me that only 18% of Americans have
> passports. (Don't know if it's true or not.)

I have one, but it's no longer valid, which makes me feel
<weird>.

Karen
"Each time you take a bite, taste sensations spread over the palate, tongue,
cheeks and throat and smell spreads into your nose."
 --Shinzen Young

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Natalie:

> > >Sardines are said to be <in> now.
> >
> > sez who?

>Newsweek.  I read about trendy sardines while walking back from the p.o.
>this morning.

Hmm. I dunno. I don't think of Newsweek as bona fide food guru.

-rashmi



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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:45:38 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Vizslas
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>alyce cresap wrote:
>>  My parents' dogs always were
>>  unleashed and with us when we were out in the yard (no fences).
>
>Spencer is allowed to walk to and from the car leashless.  I could never
>have done that with Bernard, who would have shot away and been in
>Sturgis before I could turn around.

Amy is allowed off-leash in the parking lot downstairs, and after
dark in the little park a block away (where there is very little
traffic). If someone she knows is in the parking lot, she'll trot
over to say hi, but mostly she sticks pretty close to me.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:48:24 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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>  > There are no service plazas.    You really haven't traveled much, have
>>  you?   You don't have to "hunt" for a service station.   They have signs
>>  that go high up in the air so that you can see them from the
>>  interstate.  But you do have to exit to get to them.
>
>No, I haven't travelled much. I haven't been to Europe.

A WLM yesterday: someone told me that only 18% of Americans have
passports. (Don't know if it's true or not.)

Janet

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:49:28 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Light
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>02003-03-04 | Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET> writes:
>>  The problem with playing taped silence to cover up noise is that I'm not
>>  quite sure silence can cover up noise.
>
>Not up on the latest BoBO technology, I see!
>
><http://www.bose.com/noise_reduction/qc_headset/>
>
>I have it. It cost a pretty penny but the moment I put it on,
>I realized it was worth it. The look is quite understated and
>authentic. Yes, in some ways it's a power-sucking monstrosity,
>but finally I feel safe. Without it I would certainly have gone
>crazy.

I had a chance to try a pair of these at a friend's house and intend
to buy my own at the earliest possible opportunity, preferably before
I have to fly on another airplane. The sound reduction is quite
amazing.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:51:18 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Random House on jive/jibe
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>Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 7:12:29 PM, Natalie Maynor wrote:
>
>>  Karen Kay wrote:
>>>  > Sardines are said to be <in> now.  I bet you food-followers already knew
>>>  > that.
>>>
>>>  What does <in> mean, wrt food?
>
>>  Fashionable.  Trendy.
>
>How is this manifested?

Magazine features, menus in trendy restaurants.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:52:41 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Random House on jive/jibe
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>  >From: Natalie Maynor <natalie@MAYNOR.NET>
>>Sardines are said to be <in> now.  I bet you food-followers already knew
>>that.
>
>Fresh sardines are totally yummy, but I didn't know they were <in>. Canned
>sardines I can only tolerate periodically, although I know I have some
>around here somewhere -- they moved here with me from the city. Maybe I'll
>eat them for lunch tomorrow.

I try to keep them around. Every now and then only something that
pungent and oily and savory will do.

Janet

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Date: Tue, 04 Mar 2003 20:47:24 -0800
From: Janet Hardy <verdie@earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Vizslas
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>Janet Hardy wrote:
>
>>  One of my authors tells me that there's a theory of the origin of the
>>  word "jazz" which posits it as a derivative of "jizz."
>>
>>  Comments, linguists?
>
>It is thought by many that "jazz" applied to music came from its meaning
>re sex.  I don't know about "jizz."  Don't know the word at all.

Slang for "jism."

Janet

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Subject: Re:      Re: Vizslas
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> Tony  wrote:
> > >Btw, do you really say "cul-de-sac" rather than "dead end"?
>
> They are two different things to my mind.
>
> alyce

I live in a cul-de-sac.  It is not a dead end.
If you drive into it you continue around a
circle and drive out of it.

. . . unless, of course, you pull into my
driveway and park.

               - D. M.

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>> One of my authors tells me that there's a theory of the origin of the
>> word "jazz" which posits it as a derivative of "jizz."
>>
>> Comments, linguists?
>>
>> Janet
>
>
>
>http://www.apassion4jazz.net/etymology.html
>
>
>BrP

But see also

http://www.wordorigins.org/wordorj.htm#jazz

A recent _Comments on Etymology_ has an article by Gerald Cohen (with, if
I'm not mistaken, Barry Popik) which pretty much sums up the known state of
the origins of "jazz".  Alas, I have not read it, but I'm under the
impression that the jazz=sex etymology is problematic.  (Just to clarify,
"jazz" definitely became, in one of its senses, a euphemism for sex.  But
that doesn't mean that "jazz" originated from a term for sex.)

Ken Miller
Assistant Drone
Johnson Institute for the Study of Harmless Drudgery

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Random House on jive/jibe
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Karen Kay:
= Tuesday, March 4, 2003, 7:51:04 PM, Rashmi Murthy wrote:
=
= >>Sardines are said to be <in> now.
=
= > sez who?
=
= In in Europe.
=

Really!  Where?

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From: steph <stevie@multinix.com>
To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: eccentric
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Janet Hardy:
= >  > There are no service plazas.    You really haven't traveled much, have
= >>  you?   You don't have to "hunt" for a service station.   They have signs
= >>  that go high up in the air so that you can see them from the
= >>  interstate.  But you do have to exit to get to them.
= >
= >No, I haven't travelled much. I haven't been to Europe.
=
= A WLM yesterday: someone told me that only 18% of Americans have
= passports. (Don't know if it's true or not.)
=
= Janet

For a variety of reasons, more Americans are traveling. The
number of passports issued annually has risen by roughly a
half-million a year in the past decade, except for a drop in
1989, amid the turmoil in Eastern Europe, and in 1991, after the
Gulf War. Forty-five million passports are in circulation,
meaning about 1 American in 6 holds one.  (= 16.6%)

http://www.iht.com/IHT/BK/98/bk061998.html

from the url, I'd guess this is from 1998

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To: English Language Discussion Group <WORDS-L@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU>
Subject: Re: Bathroom Talkers
Message-ID: <20030305105429.A28457@yoccoz.multinix.com>
References: <e6.36b77731.2b9695da@aol.com>
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In-Reply-To: <e6.36b77731.2b9695da@aol.com>; from BrandyKitt@AOL.COM on Tue,
             Mar 04, 2003 at 06:50:50PM -0500
Sender: owner-words-l@LISTSERV.UGA.EDU

Evelyn Duncan:
= In a message dated 03/04/2003 1:34:58 AM Central Standard Time,
= stevie@MULTINIX.COM writes:
=
= <<
= Yeah, what is this passive agressive shit I get from one of my
= colleagues where he refuses to spell my name right in an email,
= even though it's in each and every one as an example?
=
= >>
=
= What's his name?  If it's not Bob, just call him Bob.  If it is Bob,
= call him Chuck.
=

He doesn't do it to my face.  He just spells Stephanie
"Stefanie".  So mostly it would be like spelling Tushar "Tusar"
(and I could pull this trick with his name too).

